Good morning everybody. How are you? So, you had
a nice time I think over the weekend to enjoy
yourself and then to study, huh? Okay, good. Just
studying? No, you're kidding. Good. Today, you
know, we are going to see Raleigh's reply to
Marlow. So those who debated here for not going,
they're giving more credit today. See? Those who
said, no, I'm not going, they're giving more
credit. And those who said, I want to go, they are
in a difficult situation. So they have to think of a
new poem, of a reply to the reply itself.
Yes, Raleigh, I mean, this poem, like a lot of
poets, wrote a reply to this. The most famous one
is Raleigh's Reply. And there is a reply, as you
see. I don't want to forget the report and the
response, of course, and to go through the poem.
So let's just start by a nice report. And yes?
When I remember the previous lecture, I began to
think, does that poem have a special taste by
having important and simple lengths? That was the
first question that pops to my mind when I read the
poem for the first time. Then after attending the
previous lecture, I discovered that this poem was
too nice. As usual, from the very beginning, two
students set the reports. But unfortunately, I
forgot to begin with I forget to bring with me the
report I wrote. We continued our lecture by
criticizing it and giving more analysis. So we
began to think deeply and activated our minds by
sharing in that process. After that, the teacher
discussed the poem widely by asking some
questions. Consequently, I encouraged myself by
answering one question and taking a position. Mr.
Habib ordered us to write a paragraph about the
main theme. So, we began to write the paragraph,
but not too deep. To conclude, that lecture was too
interesting and short that we felt unhappiness and
did not like to conclude. Okay, thank you very
much for having this feeling about the last class.
If anybody has another feeling, we don't mind. I
might need another, you know, report in which like
some absent students need to justify their
absence. Ola, do you have a report? Did you
watch them and you wrote about that? Okay, you
should have written, you know. Okay, the response.
Response to Raleigh. Yes.
Yes, you can.
Hello everybody. One day I woke up early then I
opened my window to see myself. Okay, could you
raise your voice please? One day I woke up early
then I opened my window to see a nice birds with
nice singing. When I looked at the sunshine I
heard a strange voice appealing, come live with me
and be my love. I looked to him and asked him, me,
you mean me? Yes, come with me and be my love.
What? What will you do to me to be your love? He
began to verse with me by nice words. We will sit
up on the rocks, seeing the shepherds feed their
flocks. I will make the bed of roses and a
thousand fragrant roses, a cup of flowers and
kerchief.
During his speech, another voice shouted aloud and
interrupted him. Don't believe him. He is a liar
man. I turn to him and ask him why you said that?
He will give me everything and make me and make my
life relaxed and nice and full of love. Also, he
will challenge everything to make me his love.
Please listen to me. Okay, what? their guns, their
shoes, their beds of roses, their girls, their
characters and their bosses. Soon it breaks, soon
withers, soon forgotten, and fully ripe and
reasonably rotten. Oh, my head will explode.
Marlow's words are romantic and it calls for a
happy life, and he uses an old pastoral style with
gifts and promises of a rural life, and he keeps
giving me promises in order to encourage me to
come with him. He thinks that the rural life is
the ideal one, so everything will be good. On the
other contrary, Ghali's reply is pessimistic and
much more realistic. He debunks the idea of
pastoral love because time is the destroyer of
everything and it cannot be controlled. As he
said, time drives blocks from fields to fold.
Here, Raleigh is inviting Marlow to stop dreaming
and be realistic because everything is immortal.
And this is the end of everything, including love.
Really, I'm very tired from both. So I will close
my window and go to my bed again. Okay, thank you
for the creative idea of writing your response.
It's very interesting. I know like some of you
started to lose interest in Marlo's poem because
of this poem. But still, like those who debated
for Marlo, they are looking at me and saying, no,
we haven't lost interest. Anyway, you know, let me
just like ask a couple of you, how did you feel
when you read Marlo? Yeah. Were you okay? Did you
get, like, convinced? How did you feel? It's about
your response. Yes or what? I felt that we are on
the earth. We are on the earth. We're no longer
flying, you know, with Marlow's golden promises.
Okay. Very good. I like this expression. Okay.
Yes? I think he exaggerated this and he is a You
know, Raleigh is exaggerating, you know? So life
is not like this, you know? Okay, he seems to be
realistic, but he's too much exaggerating reality.
Very good.
Now this is a rally No, Marlowe. Marlowe, yeah.
But like here, Raleigh, how do you feel about
Raleigh's response? To convince him or to
convince, to make the reader know that anything
is not as depicted by Marlowe. Thank you. So he
wrote this in order like to ridicule Marlowe. He
wrote this in order to show that Marlowe was
wrong, was not telling the truth. Yes, please. I
think Raleigh was right because love and even the
word can still
So you think that Raleigh
is more convincing?
Both Milo and Brian, they had the two extremes,
but there's nothing in the middle. Like, I felt
like they're both taking two extremes, but there's
something in the middle. Like, he was a bit
realistic, but he was too realistic and too, like,
complicated. So you think, you know, there's
something in the middle. I mean, in our life, we
have to maintain a balance between two ways of
life. This is what you, you know, like, so we need
to debate, of course, to have a fair party. But
anyway. I don't know. Have you read the poem
aloud? How is it like, does it have the singing
tone of, yes? Yeah. Who wants like to, to tell me
how she read the poem? And you come here and like
you read the poem and it's in front of you.
I don't know. Would you like if all the world and
love were like this? I don't know. So, would it be
like what? All the words and love were young and
truth in every shepherd's tongue. These pretty
pleasures might be more to live with thee and be
thy love. Rana, do you want to give yourself?
Okay, you can. Yeah, yeah. You can come here. No,
just okay.
I'm not in the class right now. Did we take this
poem? Yeah, of course. Yeah? I don't remember.
Yeah, go ahead. Okay. If all the world and love
were young, and truth in every shepherd's tongue,
these pretty pleasures might we move, to live with
thee and be thy love. Time drives the flocks from
field to fold, when rivers rage and rocks grow
old, and ...
And the philomel becomes dumb, the rest complains
of cares to come. The flowers do fade and wanton
fields to wayward winter reckoning yields. A honey
tongue, a heart of gall is fancy spring, but
sorrows fall. Okay. What? Thy gowns. Thy gowns,
thy shoes, thy beds of roses, thy cap, thy curdle,
and thy posies.
Soon break. Soon break, soon wither, soon
forgotten, in folly ripe, in season rotten. Thy
belt of straw and ivy buds, thy coral clasp and
amber studs. All these in me no means can move to
come to thee and be thy love. But could youth last
and love still breathe? Had joys no date nor age
no need? Then these delights my mind might move to
live with thee and be thy love. Thank you very
much. How romantic. Thank you. Yeah, I know the
word philomel was a problem. Okay, philomel
nightingale, the nightingale. It is a metonymy of
joy, of happiness. In fact, it's an image, but it
is not a nightingale. It's a full moon because it
seems like Raleigh does not want to imply anything
or to hint to anything beautiful because he's
interested in showing the other side of life. In
fact, the way she read it is very good, but I have
to read it and listen. If all the world and love
were young, and truth in every shepherd's tongue,
these pretty pleasures might be moved to live with
thee and be thy love. Time drives the flocks from
field to fold. When rivers rage and rocks grow old
and philomel becomes dumb, there is complaints of
cares to come. The flowers do fade and wanton
feels to weigh word winter reckoning yields. A
honey tongue, a heart of gold, is fancy spring,
but soon is fall. Thy gowns, thy shoes, thy bed of
roses, thy cap, thy kirtle, and thy poses soon
break, soon wither, soon forgotten. In fall
arrived, in season rotten. Thy belt of straw, thy
belt of straw and ivy buds, thy coral clasp and
amber studs, all these in me no means can move to
say that. Thank you very much. So here the point
is like usually the assumption or if the
hypothesis is hypothesis. Now here she does not
speak French. This is the fact. So, the assumption
or the hypothesis is usually contrary to the fact.
So, if Amal spoke, it means that she doesn't
speak. Now, if I say, the word and love are not
enough. Okay? So, you know, I can come with you,
or so I cannot come with you. Okay? So how do you
want to do it? The word and love are not enough.
So how would you do it? Let me do it in a simple
way. My sister is not in Cairo, so I cannot meet
her there. Can you use... Okay, let me like use
this here She is not In
Cairo, sorry. So
we want
It escapes me, you know?
What's happening is not in Cairo, so we won't see
the pyramids.
Can you use F?
Can you use F? Yes?
Excellent. Yes. If she were in Cairo, we what?
Yes, excellent. If you know, if she were, it means
she's not. She's in Cairo. No, I mean, okay, let's
see. We are in the class. So we can understand the
lesson. Can you use F? If we were not in the
class, it means we are in class. So I think
understanding the F sentence will help us to
understand the poem. Let's go to the poem again
and start. analyzing, explaining it, because, you
know, next time, I want you to see this poem as a
parody. So before, like seeing this as a parody,
let's like understand it, you know, more and more.
You know, it starts, as you see, the poem starts.
Okay.
It starts with F, if all the word and love were
young. So what does it mean? What does he want to
say? What does he want to say? Yes? The word and
love are not enough. You know, the word and love,
like these things, which are earthly things, are
not forever, are not immortal.
You know, they are old and what is old is going to
decay. This is what he wants to say. If all the
word and love were young and truth in every
shepherd's tongue. So what does he want to say
here? That the word and love are not enough and
the shepherds are liars. Look, this is a slap. I
saw a video, you know, like Raleigh and Marlow.
You can see it on the YouTube. He was slapping
him, you know, like this. Like, look here how he's
slapping him. Like the word and love are not
enough. And you are liars. You know, how come?
Like the shepherds are liars. I think some of you
will start feeling sympathy for Marlow. It's okay.
That's why we don't want to take. Then these
pretty pleasures might be moved to live with thee
and be thy love. Now it's very important to see
who's talking because this is like according to
Raleigh, she is the lady. So as you see, the lady
here is what? Is she? Yeah. How would you describe
her attitude? Yes. Yeah. So she is convinced not
to go and she seems to be, you know, she doesn't
believe. So she is what we call cynical. I like
the word cynical means, you know, unwilling to go.
Cynical means suspicious.
Yeah. She's cynical. She's skeptic.
Skeptic is written in two ways. You know, it could
be written with C as well. Okay. She's skeptic.
She doesn't believe what he says. If all the word
and love were young and truth in every shepherd's
tongue, these pretty pleasures might me move to
come with thee and thee, you know, and be thy
love. So we see, like the lady here, is unwilling.
She's reluctant.
But you know why? You cannot refuse without
justifying,
without warranting like what you have just said.
Time drives the flux from field to fold. Time.
Time, we saw in Spencer, time and tide, you know?
Time was metonymy or is metonymy of what? Death.
Look at this image. It's a very frightening image,
isn't it? Imagine time as being, you know, a power
which sweeps everything you know, from flux, you
know, the flux from field to fold. So let's see if
we accept that, you know, time is a metonymy of,
you know, time here is a metonymy of death. So
flux would be a metonymy of what? Of people. And
field would be a metonymy of what? Okay, thank
you. Yeah, I don't know. Yes. So time here, as we
said, it's a metonymy of death, drives, like it's
a verb, the flux. Metonymy of people, field, life,
unfold, grave. Let's look at this line. Imagine
life, imagine time, like a shepherd or like
somebody who's violent, driving the flux from
field to fold. Death is merciless. This is what he
wants to say. Death drives the flux from field to
fold. Look at the cluster of consonants. How?
Yeah. The time thrives. Look at the word thrives,
you know, it's hard. You know, the choice of words
do not show the smoothness of like we saw in
Marlow. We don't see the melody. We don't see the
soft tunes we saw in Marlow. Drives. Time drives
the flux, harshness. This harshness in like the
sound is parallel to the harshness of life itself.
Time drives the flux from field to fold. Very sad
image. The F sound. It shows how it is
frightening, how he is intimidated by this idea.
This idea is very intimidating, very frightening.
And then, when would this happen? When rivers rage
and rocks grow all cold. Reflect on this image
when rivers rage. It's an image which is similar.
Like this image is a biblical image, in fact. You
know, it's an image, you know, about the doomsday,
when like there will be flood, when rivers rage. I
mean, rivers, it's a metonymy of seas, rivers,
oceans. When they rage, when they get angry, you
know, this is a personal occasion. When rivers
rage and rocks grow cold. A rock stands for
anything, you know, strong. But in this upheaval,
in this change, in this upheaval, everything will
be upside down. When rivers rage and rocks grow,
look here, the air sound. It shows how harsh, how
difficult. When rivers rage and rocks grow cold
and filament, and filament becomes damp. A
filament, what do you think? It's a methanol of
what? Yes, thank you. It's a metonymy of the poet,
because a philomel is the one who sings. Now, what
will happen to the philomel at this? It will die.
It will be speechless. And philomel becomes dumb.
The rest complains of curse to come. Like the
rest, those who were not touched, they would be
waiting for more care to come. Very frightening.
Then, I mean, Raleigh started to look more closely
at the poem and say, the flowers. Now with this,
in this reality, what will happen to the flowers?
The flowers do fade. Again, the F sound. Do fade.
And wanton feels, playful feels, to way where
winter reckoning yields, like they will die. To
way where winter, way we're dying. You know, they
will be dying. And look here, everything will be
reversed. A honey tongue, what will the honey
tongue be? Yeah? A heart of gold. So things will
be turned upside down. What is sweet will be
bitter. You know? A honey tongue is a heart of
gold. It's fancy spring, but soon it's fall. So
the beauty of spring will be transformed into
sorrow. This is like paraphrasing.
Then what would happen to your promises? Thy
gowns. Thy, not my. Look at her. This is very
significant. Thy. Look at the repetition. Thy
gowns, thy shoes, thy bed of roses, thy cab, thy
kertil, and thy poses. So this repetition of thy,
thy, Do you feel like when I say, thy gowns, thy
shoes, thy bed of roses, thy cap? You know, it
creates a kind of monotony. What is monotony?
Monotony is a boring thing. It's monotonous, you
know? Thy gowns, thy shoes, thy bed of roses, thy
cap, thy cartel, and thy poses. Again using thy
shows like The lady here, the nymph, is not
interested at all. She wants to disengage herself,
to disassociate herself from the whole, you know,
promises. Thy gowns, thy shoes, thy bed of roses.
Look here, what was glittering, what was, you
know, a lovely promise, what was, you know,
something golden. is losing its beauty now, is
losing its shininess. Thy cap, thy kirtle, and thy
poses, soon break, soon wither, soon forgotten.
You know, look at the repetition of soon, soon,
soon. You know, soon break, soon wither, soon
forgotten. Yeah, like when you say soon, soon,
what is like the repetition of the word soon?
Yeah, it reflects what? Yes. Life is short.
Excellent. You know, everything will come to an
end. So death is inevitable, you know. Death is
inevitable. It should come sooner or later. Soon
break, soon wither, soon forgotten, infuriated, in
season rotten. Everything will come to an end. And
then she continues, Thy belt of straw and ivy
buds.
What will happen to thy belt of straws? Thy coral
clasp and amber studs. with this new revelation,
with this new reality. All these in me, no means
can move. Look at her. No means, you know. She's
very adamant. She's very reluctant to come to Thee
and be Thy love. 408 00:33:36,52
dramatist. Do you remember any play he wrote? Yes?
He wrote a couple of plays. The Jew of Malta, you
know? Dr. Faustus and *The* Jew of Malta. And they said,
had Marlowe lived longer, he would have surpassed
Shakespeare. I wish, like, you know, you would
have time to study *The* Jew of Malta or, you know,
Dr. Faustus. Yeah. So, like, just, like, look at
them, read, like, *The* Jew of Malta and see how,
you know, he was trying to show, like, the danger
of greed. He was an amazing writer. Okay. Now, the
parody, we're going to discuss it next time. But
if you like, I think here, we saw two poems. We
saw two poems with different themes, with
different tones, with different attitudes, with
different images, you know? The alliteration here
was different, like music. I mean, the music is
the same, but the context is different. And this
is what we discussed in the parody. So it is very
important, like, you start thinking how to compare
and to contrast. Okay? And this is what we have to
do next time, to compare and contrast. Do you have
any question? Okay. Do you have any questions?
Okay.