again for another poetry class so let me welcome
all of you again today today's class is a new poem
it's about a new poem a new poet
But the same period. So today we're going to see
Christopher Marlowe, one of the most famous
lyricist and pastoral poetry writers or poets.
But today's angle is going to be a little bit
different. Different in, I'm not going to explore
the poem in detail today, but rather to create a
context which might reveal the multifaceted
meanings of the poem itself. So, as usual, we
start by listening to one or two reports. Then one
or two responses in poetry, if you remember. After
that, we'll hold a debate. Either I bring a panel
here. We bring a panel like you here, a couple of
people, and you debate. And I'll be in the middle
just trying to flare up that debate. and perhaps
try to make you, yeah, it would be a nice idea to
have a panel here. Yes? Okay, this is today's
class. Hopefully this will be a springboard for
next class, okay? So today we're not going to go
deeper into the background, the historical
background or the cultural background, but we're
going to have a preparatory class for next class,
okay? Good. Let's listen as usual for a report. I
think you have never read a report. Okay, good.
You come here.
Good morning. All of us know poetry classes start
at night. As usually, Mr. Habib comes in the time.
Then, he selects one or two to read their reports.
Also, if we have a new poem, he will ask one or
two to read their response. After that, he begins
to explain. So, last class, he continued the
Spencer's poem, Poem Explained. He analyzed all
aspects of it. Also, Mrs. Amal came and shared Mr.
Habib to explain the rhyme of the poem. And a lot
of students joined with teacher in discussion it.
Finally, he finished the Spencer poem and called
us to prepare a new one for Marlow, and he ordered
from us to try to write response for it in poetic
form. He asked us, thank you very much. You know,
Amal, okay, it's not the message. She's mess, you
know. So this is good news, you know, for the
future, not now. Okay, good. Thank you very much.
Thank you for having the courage. You know, I
think you started to write very well. And this is
a, you know, good. Because I felt like you've
been, we've been teaching poetry for I think a
month now. Almost like this is the fourth week and
I feel that some students like critique develop
Their way of writing, you know, they started to
see writing like an easier thing Okay, still we
have the guts to listen to another report Okay Yes
Yes, please just come here
It's not a problem. It's short, laconic. You mean
like... Good morning. I sit to write my report and
ask myself what can I write my feeling during the
lecture or my feeling... I ask myself what I can
write. This is indirect question. Yes. Not what
can I write. You know? Okay. or my feelings about
the last poem. It was boring to write about a bus
event every day as you're writing a daily report.
I sit and imagine how to start attractive report
because I lose my words, but it is not true. I
start to get new words, new ideas, new
imagination. Then I realize it is a useful way to
develop our writing and thinking.Yes, thank you.
That's right. So at some point like you might
reach like, hey, I don't have anything to write
about. And then, you know, here the point of
creativity starts when you don't have when you
find writing a report is a boring issue. So then
you you find any hook. Like to start with and then
to weave your story or your narrative. So this is
like the most wonderful thing about the report.
Plus it is a way to vent out, you know, your if
you are not happy with something, it's good. Good.
Yes. What response? Wow. Like a lot of people want
to respond. Yes. You just go. Now, I need to
listen to several responses. Why? Because this
will help you now to vote, because there will be
voting whether to go or not to go. So here, we'll
see how many people who would say, OK, I like to
go. It's good. And how many people who want to
say, no, I'm not going. Good. So the first word,
I'm going. Yes. Let's see. I'm going to the valley
where the water flow. I will use the wall and the
rest I will draw. And the candid tears will melt
the snow. The picture of happiness I will draw.
And for sadness he said no. A suitable figures of
speech he draw. The natural romantic language used
was suitable for you. Themes of simplicity and
love, that's what he want us to know. But for her,
she might say bye and go. This was a nice poem
from Marlow and what Dr. Akram want us to know.
Okay, thank you. Clap for her. Yeah, but it's good
response, like you respond to a poem by poetry,
but it's good that you are listing, you know, the
elements of persuasion. You know, she started to
talk about like the promises, the lovely things he
promised, the natural life, the romantic scenes of
the countryside. Good. Yes.
I will not go. Okay, good. Answer to, answer to
what? Because you are my relative, you know she's
not going. Sorry Marlo, I can't go with you in
your world. There is a lot of things inside me
warn me. This is not acceptable, and in my society
this is not available. My religion forbids that,
and I must accept it. You entice me by something
unreal, and I have been waiting for something
greater and glorious. I am with you that these are
unattractive things, but I try to make myself away
from it. You are a sensitive and a romantic man,
but I try to be a realistic one. I am a Muslim, so
I have to respect my Islam. Allah prohibited this
splendor, so I have to obey his order. So try to
forgive me I can't come. At least I will have a
heaven and a paradise which Allah prepared for us.
Wow, good. Thank you very much. I think she
succeeded in persuading, in dissuading you not to
go. But let's see somebody who will persuade. It's
fun, you know. Yes, Rawan, like, and I think
Khawla as well. So today we're supposed to listen
to many responses. Good. The shepherd invites his
love to come with him to live in the countryside,
which contains pleasures of all kinds, to enjoy
the nature sights. Is he out of his mind? With no
future defined, there is no brandy the lady can
find. So this is like a cynical attitude. No
future, nothing realistic. The same concern is
shared by her, like nothing is real, nothing is
concrete. All of these are just promises in the
air. Good. I just can't decide whether he's being
ridiculous or serious. He wants to watch the
river, but he didn't bother himself to make any
offer. Even if he brought a rose, he didn't do
both. He wants to hear the birds sing. Yeah, like
here, there is a way out as a Muslim, you know.
Okay. like if there is like a formal proposal you
know and a formal you know relationship like it's
a you know marriage relationship so this kind of
you know relationship would be legal and as a
Muslim we will respond eagerly you know So there
are limitations for us as Muslims, you know, this
doesn't appeal to us unless we have certain, you
know, prerequisites to be achieved. He wants to
hear the bird sing, but he didn't bring any wing.
It seemed that the lady never cared because her
response was never heard. Yeah, you are detaching
yourself. You talk about the lady and because I
think this poem was addressed to us. Good. The
last one, Khaoula, if you know. Okay. Yes,
Khaoula. So we have so far like three people like
refusing to go. Yes. Good morning. To His Love is
a poem written by Marlow. It's the fifth time I
write response for the poem, but I feel I feel now
there is no difficulty in writing. After I read
the poem loudly, the words, the style, and even
the theme attract my attention. It's the first
time the poet invites his beloved to come and to
be his wife, so this is a new style in our
studying of poetry. I face some difficulties with
I faced some difficulties whereas actually, but I
tried to understand it throughout the context.
Marlow used an image which is an imaginative image
because I don't think there is an image like he
narrated. He invites his beloved to come and to
live with him in the countryside where everything
will be depositioned to serve them. They will sit
upon the rocks and watch the shepherd feeding
their flocks. This image reflects his mood and
attitude, all images from nature and as hills,
valleys, flowers and mountains. Finally, I just
want to say that Marlow was succeeded in using
language to convince his beloved to live with him,
and he's an optimistic one, so I... Thank you,
thank you. Okay, good. Yes, the last one, because,
you know, this is like a good introduction for
like the debate. Let's see who will be here and
who will be here, you know? Okay. Superficial, my
love, seems your verse. As of nature, you seem
more fascinated than me. Those pleasures you speak
of for me, better or worse, seems not to matter,
for it's you who will see. Those silver dishes of
meat you speak of are my curse, for who will
prepare for the idle shepherd his provisions? Get
real, man, of you, after this, I'm not a great
fan. Okay, thank you very much. Okay, now I want
to see people here like to come See people who do
not want to go. Okay, just you come here, sit
down. This is a debate. It's like TV debate. Okay,
who thinks that you shouldn't go? Yes, you just
come here. Okay, you come here. Okay. You just
bring your chair, because this is a debate. This
is a debate. Sit here. Okay, you sit here.
yes and I need the like a third one okay so those
who think it's nice to go where are they okay yes
okay good one yeah
like here to go yes yeah to go where is like yeah
I need like this Don't worry, I might change you
now, like I changed the order. So Amal, do you
want to play with me? I'm just going to watch. No,
it's good, like, you know. Yeah, you can come. I
might switch it. OK. Yes. Yes, you can come. OK.
Ladies, good morning. Ladies and gentlemen, good
morning. Today, we have a wonderful debate. It's
like we have an invitation from a lesbian poet
named Christopher Martin. And all of you read the
invitation. It's not a willing invitation, but it
is an invitation to go with the poet to the
countryside. Here we have some people who are
cynical, who are Little adamant, they don't trust
the poet, and they decided not to go. Of course,
we'll ask them about the reasons. And again here,
we have people who wanted to give themselves time
to relax. And they thought it was a good idea to
go and to enjoy the beauty, because there is a
carefree life. It's wonderful. It's a good
vacation to go there. Now, they are going to
debate. But when they debate, of course, you know,
like one would start by an argument. Yeah, it's
good to go out and become suicidal and to relax,
to escape from this. And the other would say,
yeah, you might be right. I think I might share
you. I respect your point of view. But let me
disagree with you. So whenever you disagree with
each other, use best language, OK? let's see i
think you have the invitation you received the
invitation so why did you decide not to go yes i
decided
mind say to me no. That first of all my values, my
culture, my religion forbid that. That because the
illegal relationship between men and
women is not acceptable in our society. So the
best way to connect the man and the woman if she
wants to go with him is the marriage. So I will
not go. Now they say, like, I think the poem, you
know, I don't know, like, let's see what they are
going to say. Yes? I want to say that while they
are seeing things like this, that it is forbidden
and it is like they are going to a legal
relationship, why not? I am with my mind, I'm not
mindless, so I can decide what's right and what's
wrong. So why not a place of mountains, valleys,
roses, flowers, walls and relaxation? It's
something nice. So she thinks like it's good like
to have your own decision and to go, you know. Of
course, like she didn't talk about the
restrictions. Let's see here. Yes, another support
like I'll change position, you know. allow me to
disagree with both of them because here i do not
think that he specified you know you know you can
you have to go you know for an illegal
relationship i think the main focus of the poem is
about the pastoral side and the pastoral way of
life so what i think of it i think that the
attitude that marlo himself uh took is one that is
very idle he idealized everything um not
everything is always positive not everything is
always rosy and flowery there is always a positive
and negative side for everything he he talked
about the shepherd's singing singing he talked
about him watching everything he seems like really
lazy and idle he seems like he's just making
everything like uh heavenly for her Although she
needs to realize that this is not a lifetime
honeymoon. It's going to be hard to live on, you
know, on a regular basis this way of life. She can
go for a visit, you know what I mean? But it's not
going to be practical and it's not going to be
realistic. You are buffing us. You are in the
middle. You should be in the middle here. And you
know what? You made your team lose a point, you
know? So I would say, one, nail you know okay so
you have to be adamant you have to be stubborn
good now good like you see like you want a point
yes like uh well for me i would say i would go
because of the nature of our life civilized life I
would, for me, I would go because of, you know,
the nature of our daily life, civilized life. We
hardly even notice the tree that we cross. So
going to a pastoral area would actually be a nice
holiday. It would be a nice holiday, yes? Yes.
Okay, go ahead. It would be a very nice holiday
for me to ponder and to look around for the trees
and all the things that he said he would do. So
yes, I would go for relaxation. You would go out.
You are attracted by all these scenes and beauty,
yes?
neither than idols so even if there was a like
beauty in life outside life but there's still even
no matter how life can be complex but we can live
without it and we can cope with it yeah and he
didn't even he didn't make any promise that he
would stay with her or marry her or even a long
-term relationship he just said come with me so
she didn't have like but is he going to be the you
know the only one in the countryside this is the
question they might say he's not going to be the
only one you know there will be a lot of people a
lot of shepherds a lot of swains you know okay i
don't believe him I feel like I feel like he's
being very like he's idealizing everything He says
that the silver dishes of meat for for you who's
going to make the silver dishes of meat It's gonna
be like make me some dinner for God's sake. That's
the way they're gonna act in the end It's you
know, yeah, it's ridiculous. Let us read the
imitation again. Who wants to read the imitation?
like in a poet form it would be nice like to you
can click this and yes and read the poem read the
invitation uh i don't know yeah wow look come with
me and be my love and we will own the pleasures
through the hills and the valleys dale and fields
and all the craggy mountain hills There we will
sit upon the rocks, seeing the shepherds feed
their flocks by shallow rivers, to whose forms the
lodges birds sing mandolins. There will I make
thee a bin of roses and a thousand fragrant roses,
a cab of flowers and a curtain embroidered with
leaves and myrtle, A gown? A gown made of the
finest wool. A gown made of the finest wool, which
from our pretty lamps we pull. Fair lines
splattered, slippers for the cold, with packles of
the purest gold. A belt of straw and ivory buds,
with coral clasp and amber studs. If these
pleasures made thee move, come live with me and be
my love. Thy silver dishes, for thy need, as
precious as the goods to eat, shall on an ivory
table be prepared each day for thee and me. The
shepherds, the shepherds' swains, shall dance and
sing for thy delight each day in our name. If
these delights thy mind, they move, they live with
me and be my love I think it's very interesting
like look here it is good thing for a lady like to
be blind nowadays ladies are complaining they are
cocking they are doing the kitchen work here as
you see I don't believe him either he's not being
realistic what do you want to say yes
as if she is a princess and she is controlling
everything around her and also them and himself is
controlled by her so she will feel like as if she
is in heaven yeah she's in heaven you know like
okay good and now I'm telling that he's being a
romantic not a ridiculous I don't know what okay
there's nothing amazing in watching this hold on
hold on let's let's go okay yeah you want to
repeat that again okay
Yes, go ahead. Yes, I feel that everything is
ready for her and she will feel that she is a
princess and controlling everything around her. So
she will be having a special life, a very
prestigious life. She will be feeling that
everything is under her control.
Yeah, what did you want to say? I wanted to say
that he's being a romantic, not what they said,
ridiculous and stupid. He can't be romantic 24x7.
He can't be romantic 24x7, like you can't, come
on, like be realistic. Be realistic, he's not
realistic at all. He's not realistic. At all, like
he's talking about the silver dishes of meat
prepared and the slippers and the baba arif meat.
So do you think he's exaggerating? He's
exaggerating so much and he's like, I don't know.
Like he can be romantic but at the same time keep
balance. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but you know they
are
giving us a ground anything to help us actually I
don't know okay so okay now help him he's not
helping us helping him he's not helping us to help
him he's he's exaggerating yes
we have one from the audience yes please
We are having one from the audience. I don't know,
she's going to support either of the teams. I
would go for his mind because you know this is
poetry it has to be some way for us we are the
the hearers or the listeners of poetry it has to
be a little bit exaggerated because it's an image
but when you come to real life and the pastoral
life or in the countryside it is gonna be
realistic you are living in the real world but you
are living in some other way because we didn't try
that we are facing some problems to imagine it to
try to live in it but I'm gonna tell you something
you are most of you are sad girls you don't have
kids you're not married you're not you're not
already through all these problems to me I would
go for a better life I would go to the countryside
having all the concerns of a woman working outside
she would go Give herself a break. It's not only a
break. I'm looking for a life of stability here in
the country or in towns. maybe your work is close
to you maybe you don't have as in the countryside
to take hours to get to your work or to get
whatever you want at the time you want but there
you will have a life of manners a life of
spontaneous people but let me hug you know the
other guys like where is he inviting her to which
place to the countryside did he you know identify
whose countryside it is like who is the owner of
the countryside like you see what I mean so they
think this is a reason which would persuade or
dissuade okay okay let's see the other group yes
do you think it's like if somebody invites you
like to a place which is not her place will you go
I will go but I will know where is the place and I
am well aware I will go by my reason to know where
is the place and to go with my relatives no with
man I have no relation with him but this is not
we're not talking about this somebody is inviting
you to a place he doesn't own it is not his place
you know like You know, yes, for example, we know
Palestine. We are Palestinian. This is our land.
And now, and you know, the Jewish propaganda, like
the Zionist movement, come to the land of holy,
come live with us in this land. So this is part
of, what do you call that?
Are you okay with that idea? He's just asking her
opinion. He's not going to say in the poetry,
look, I found a place we can rent it and it's not
going to be expensive. The market is near and he's
not going to go on all these details. But still
like he's telling her I'll buy you slippers, a bed
of roses. Let's say, what do you think? I think it
is
Yeah,
but like what about the bed of roses it's a good
idea people are I mean, yeah, so this shows how
Careful he is how much time you will put Yes,
yes So
everything will come to an end temporary and also
I think like I he did not like he did not take
into consideration the reaction of the woman once
she received this invitation i mean put yourself
in the condition you have this letter from him an
invitation come with me we have this we have that
are you just gonna say oh yeah i'm coming
The funny thing about him asking her to come is
that although he's saying that he wants her to
live with him in a pastoral life, he uses a lot of
things that are from the urban life, from the
civilized life. Like when he says that he's going
to make her slippers, a gown, a dish. All of these
are artificial. All of these are natural. Nothing
is artificial. So he's talking about a carefree
life, a simple life, devoid of any sign or any
manifestation of, let's say, artificiality. Yes?
You live with
women. You don't care for... Don't fall in love.
So that's her video. But when you fall in love...
So you forget all of these things, you know? Yeah,
but still like there are restrictions and rules.
Okay, we will apply. But like... Teacher, let me
say something. I guess it's important. At their
time, the time they let in, it was so natural and
it was so normal to go and live in countryside.
Yes, so if it was a weekend time, it was fine.
They didn't have lights, they didn't have
electricity, internet, wireless, and all of these
stuff we're caring about this moment. It was so,
so regular. Well, I think yes, if we switch you,
if we switch you like the other way, What are you
going to say? They want to switch you? Sure. Okay,
you go. You go. Let's see. Let's see how you are
going now. Say yes, we should go. It's good, you
know. And you say we shouldn't go. This is a good
idea in debate. Now we are in difficult. Yeah, I
think this team, this team thinks it's a good idea
to go. You know, it is good. and those people say
no we don't have to go it's very it's not good you
want me to go because you want one of the 17th
century woman you want her to cook you want her to
wash your dishes you want her to work for you you
you don't want me to have my independence and my
own personality to go for my dreams and goals you
just want me to stay home okay so she's protesting
against you know the stereotype image of uh you
know uh power you know lady yeah very good and yes
please uh i don't think he knows who's who he's
dealing with i mean he's saying all of this and
now like it does sound like to me it does sound a
little bit superficial and a little bit
exaggerated but he doesn't know if he actually
takes me and i don't find what i'm expecting he
doesn't know what he's gonna be facing so it's all
gonna be like so I think I think that I uh I would
definitely go because I would love to live that
moment I have nothing else to lose I mean it's an
experience look she she's excellent at
manipulating her position it's an experience it is
an experience yeah I have nothing else to lose if
he if he doesn't you know satisfy me with
everything that he mentioned then you know
whatever for me I would go for some time and then
go back to my life So let's now conclude
this wonderful debate. As you see, some people are
willing to go because it's nice, it's very, the
pastoral life is nice. Some people are realistic.
In fact, that was the case in Elizabethan time. We
had two different attitudes. One was optimistic,
cheerful, singing, celebrating the beauty, the
simplicity of the countryside. And the other was
more realistic. So if we are talking about the
first one, we're talking about Martin Chapman and
Thomas Chapman and others. If we are talking about
the realistic, we are talking about running. So
this is a late Elizabethan. In the late
Elizabethan, there was a spirit of nationalism It
was a spirit of expansion. And the idea of America
was there. America was discovered. And America was
like the nomad land, which the poets invited. So
you could say, these are the scenes of the
colonial language, the colonial discourse. Come
with me. Where? Which land? He didn't specify the
land. And that was the spirit. You could say,
because in the Nazircan time, even before America
was discovered, they kept on writing about this
place in their literature. They were writing about
this new land with indigenous people. But they
didn't specify it very well. So there was this is
like a promotion, a promotion. The same thing
happened when Palestine was occupied There was
like a lot of promotion by the Zionist media
where, you know, in order to attract many Jews
from all over the world to come and live in
Palestine, we had the same style to promote, come
to this land of honey. And of course, you know,
they succeeded in attracting by through these
images. So thank you very much, and we'll see you
in another class, huh? For another debate. Let me
assume.
Yes. So as you see, next time, we have a good
context for this poem. In other classes, I know,
and you might have a wonderful poem. So the
critique next time is to discover the music. to
discover the aesthetics you know because here this
poem is a poem full of persuasion and you know the
art of persuasion is very important nowadays we
need persuasion for business We need persuasion
for, let's say, advocacy. The art of persuasion is
for recommendation because this is the art of
life, so persuasion. So it's very important to
delineate, to show what kind of persuasion,
the elements of persuasion he's using here. I
would like to thank you for listening. And if you
have any question, you know, concerning this poem
and, you know, the age itself, it would be a good
idea. Yes, please.
Yes, I wouldn't go, you know, because, you know, I
would make sure that this is your place. You own
the place. Otherwise, I would be like a thief, you
know, even for watching. This is not my place. I
have to take the permit. My religion, my values
tell me that I have, you know, to make sure that
I'm not trespassing because this is trespassing.
It's not ethical at all. It is not ethical. Nobody
can invite me and say, OK, let's go to that field.
I say, whose field it is? I should say, whose
field it is? Because I want to make sure that I'm
not trespassing. I'm not violating any rule. So
this is the point. But this is pastoral poetry.
Next time you have to define what is pastoral
poetry, And we're going to discuss this further,
because after discussing this poem, we're going to
see, you know, the other one, Raleigh, how Raleigh
responded by writing The Nymph's Reply, because
this poem was parodized You know, it's not by, you
know, Raleigh, but by many other poets. And, you
know, it lost its beauty. But we don't want to
speak about any parody unless we explore the
aesthetics of this poem and see how it is
wonderful, how it is lovely. I would like to thank
you and see you next time, okay? Bye-bye.
Okay. Thank you for. Thanks.