words that kind of overlap with with layer two i can resonate resonate very well


layer two once where you felt you are the space


or get to layer three or location three thank you pardon and uh just to experience this sensation of joy and love connection with the divine um location four i i dont know i dont know about that just because i have a little boy and and i want to be able to be there and engage with him and feel something for him um but id like to see and id like to sink into the deeper deeper layers


coincides with the fullness


spaciousness standpoint


super joyous and love


flatness absolute


so theres the sort of presence and the emptiness and the spaciousness presence and the spaciousness at the same time um and thats really great


space


literally nothing else exists


everything seems to be arising from and within it


expansiveness


can can kind of manufacture emptiness if i say this is a so this may be maybe this is going back to layer two um emptiness


maybe aliveness um presence beingness thats showing up


maybe a sense of stillness or beingness if that makes sense


so layer one you know if your attention is centered there its going to be primarily focused on thoughts and emotion if theyre around


youve mentioned that lets assume that sort of that spaciousness type of thing is in the direction of layer two


looker


layer three thing and say thats you know colors are very vibrant and its just its very intense like perceptual


it feels more like presence there is this sort of buzzing energy thats pretty much always happening its quite strong now um thats something that i associate with aliveness but it doesnt have the sort of intelligence that awareness has presence has uh so im not really sure thats one of the questions im not so yeah that buzzing did sort of i do associated with layer three


location two layer three


that would be my advice not to not for fluidity at the moment or anything like that but just try to get yourself into layer three


layer three


radiance


location three that comes from personal emotions at layer three


problems are really creating triggers and triggers are really increasing the volume so to speak or the energy that layer one has in the system


bit later i might notice the stillness


you would want to minimize sort of those proclivities in your experience that relate to location three and maybe try to make it on to layer four


more empathy


i feel like im still maybe seeing spaciousness from layer one where i can be aware of it but maybe not purely i feel like when i try to experience it more purely that kind of contraction actually disappears


is everything


ground of all being


so that field of existence relates to sort of deeper aspects of layer three


field of presence


so like i tend to function at location one in the mind i think but but with the exercise that we did with the introspection exercise i could sort of feel space around my body and or behind my body really like i guess ive got it written down here some of the notes i took um so im feeling of of existing beyond my body um especially the back of my body like the back of my body doesnt exist and this can change so it feels like my my body doesnt exist um can feel like the body this way and and our space im moving through the world


all pervading presence


feels untouched


its a deeper quality of layer three that you were you were experiencing where it really can feel deathless eternal untouchable no sense of an individual self youre deep in it so theres nothing to die its obviously extraordinarily present at that point and


centerless or boldness


sort of the presence and the fullness of place


not adding your own noise to that already existing stillness


realizing the ultimate truth


they acclimatize more quality or dimensionality kind of is discernible so something like the qualities of layer three


im there is just a much stronger sense of awareness and its much easier to get distance from from thoughts when im when im not really doing anything like i would like i would go sit and chat with a friend


um of course if youre fully in layer two where youre sensing that all containing awareness and you are that they wouldnt be a sense of something to be alone


kept having to just do what was in front of me


packets of energy


little lower than it was a minute or two ago


it freaked it literally freaked her out and so we had this conversation about this type of thing and so shes shes a christian for sure but not a location three christian you know shes a high sort of location you know layer three type of christian


but life kept unfolding


awareness layer or in the in layer two were just going to well call it layer two


they would be viewing layer one


four that shifting feels very subtle and i was expecting something a bit more a bit stronger and so that maybe explains why thats the case


fullness versus the emptiness


you experience layer two what is it that makes you say oh no im pretty sure i experienced at least some of layer two


stillness or spaciousness


so the fullness it feels like its flowing flowing flowing out of me and it feels really full


feels very layer two ish which is you know even though mines thinking but i still have the feeling of whiteness and im not so zoomed out would be the best way um okay so that shows up without being under duress and then under duress go back into layer one and start fixing things


planning and taking action mostly rely on external stimuli to initiate them as there is no internal drive or energy to do so


feel like its kind


so layer two is is expansiveness emptiness and um zooming out wide field of vision um less mind chatter you know i wont say no mind chatter chatter but what shows up is just kind of like clouds passing um and just i guess expansiveness is the word id use yeah yeah great yeah and really when im driving theres no demands your your present looking to the blue sky and the roads going by and youre just very present in letting it in


something like just stillness


nothingness always there


now i forgot a few years back when i got into nonduality i simply forgot that i had noticed this person what i would call a personal presence


and if you really deepen into layer four in location two your system will sooner or later be unable to really stabilize that in location two and it will shift into location four


like even more zoomed out watch your looker


fullness awareness and aliveness and just all pervading and pervasive


conditioning around my family


quality of spaciousness


and when you have that shimmer is that happening in a state where youve got more access to layer three type qualities yeah like the warmth you described


and should i try to sink into layer three


spacious awareness


love and joy and compassion parts of layer three


beingness that pervades everything


but that is probably aspects of layer two that youre sensing into um and you are able to when i asked you the question to you know briefly shift into a sense of identity as layer two as the presence


layer three infused experience where theres a sense of fullness within the emptiness or presence of emptiness


relying on lists and notes


presence you know all pervasive presence a fullness um one could say sort of an all pervasive field


going about my day and suddenly ill be in layer one without ever having made a decision


it is fantastic


those are those are such subjective qualities that dont necessarily apply to layer four and so but lets go back lets go to lets go earlier here and make sure that you know you really are switching between location one and location two yeah thats a little unusual so lets make sure thats happening you actually feel like youre at times when youre in the world your system is literally going from our our nondual perception tests right which involve like a looker in here


like the actual visual field itself is bigger


i wasnt the emptiness or the spaciousness


temporary experiences


stillness


yes if youre more rooted in layer three


layer one i will feel that my thoughts are very real my problems are very real and theres a lot of dangers in the future


stable


i think spend as much time in layer two as you possibly can regardless of where at


expanding in all directions


more pervading


you still have of course the habits the habit pattern and your attention system that is pulling you back to layer one


mindful


stillness for you is a good way of accessing layer three


remain aware of the fullness of the bliss of the expanded ness and simultaneously exercise the mind to be lucid and articulate and rational and logical and effective without leaving the bliss and the expansion and the and so forth


everything that theyve ever heard or read or seen or whatever its all been about union with the divine or union with god or union with whatever deity or whatever


the fullness


layer three


a sense of stillness is always deeper as you deepen in that direction


happy to be aliveness kind of a that


layer four of location four


agency


from from layer three


like everything is like liquid type


i noticed you said in some moments the center of a hair seems to fall away and a pervading boundaryless field is weakly present everywhere so it does sound like youre having a centerless layer three deeper layer three experience sometimes


its this sense of aliveness its kind of weird to say but theres just like a towel hanging in front of it on the chair like in front of me and it seems like it is becoming alive in a way im sure you heard a lot of things but its kind of like this towel is alive like in a real sense like smiling at me i dont want to sound too crazy but there is like a communication going on and not with words and not like something here and something there but just this sense of everything becoming more present a strong sense of presence


its obviously influencing the range of fluidity that you have ease of access to because you can access deep experience of layer two


but its almost like it has no interface to the conditioning at layer one


youve talked about how the layer four is the most primitive part of the brain and and just the other day when i was i think having kind of a glimpse of it i felt more like a crocodile you know like like im just here like ready to you know eat whatever comes across my path and and thats about it you know im not im not like pondering this question im having right now about the human the purpose of my existence as a crocodile


peace and silence


nervousness and the spaciousness


four felt normalized in location four


empty


like you are entering layer two its completely missing and user interface but so there was like a real like shit kind of movement or shift from i am the thinker of my thoughts to seeing


that fullness


i think the emptiness is a different one


sense of self at layer one


more analytical type capacities


layer one might be in a more of a foreground on top of that but its within the container essentially of layer three in that circumstance


and we still oftentimes shorthand that were trying to train ourselves not to so that well get better at using the labels publicly when were not thinking about it but we still internally will often use you know those old labels and stuff like that so yeah theres a lot of what looks like you know layer three


layer one from a layer one standpoint


fullness and whatnot of layer three


everything just shows up


yeah i guess i on my scale was relating the depth of emotion and feeling you know that unpleasant feeling to layer one


complete simplicity


spaciousness or im seeing this mistiness


youre the presence as the identity has a strong connection to layer one where youd be writing from and see what your voice looks like there


sense of self i feel the sense of self is pretty steadily rooted in layer one


one thing that i think to pay attention to is when you are triggered next does it seem like will it seem like in that moment that if youre introspecting that theres been a shift of identity


now in this moment


thats layer three stuff


deeper stillness


charmed life nature of the experience in location two layer three


and then theres like kind of cross into layer three it feels like it feels like its like like instead of silence things become a little bit more joyful


a joy


separating away from the individualized sense of self


i mean its just the simplicity of it i mean layer four whats so interesting about it the deeper one goes the simpler gets


location four layer four


theres just this senseless or present awareness which is deep in layer three


the silence and stillness stuff that you talk about that runs through everything which it should im just talking about sort of the more distinctive qualities so spaciousness and then emptiness


showing up in the layer three


especially the parts where it mixes in with layer two


an all pervading field of presence or beingness that feels profoundly rich complete full alive


and theres some more notes here like the deepest part of this is the back of my heart feels really sort of timeless spaciousness or or like like like a like a grand dimension um i feel like im behind myself im watching myself im feeling like im a field of awareness the body is still here and it still has sensations and pain but its happening within a field sometimes when im driving it feels like everything is moving through me and again feeling im not having a back or a heart or a head so that so so more the back the back of the body the back of the head im feeling emptiness and when i notice this this then fills up the room um and i feel im in in the rooms um so to speak and so this can have like an emptiness feeling but then the body is still there but then when i when i when i go into this sort of spaciousness feeling behind myself im the body


existence


so spaciousness is probably the most accessible thing aside from silence


that that seems to draw me into the present moment to stillness a sense of presence


that makes sense still this feels really comforting so i wasnt really feeling it when i was feeling nervous and im not feeling nervous anymore but i think some nervousness kind of blocks me from feeling this really deep stillness


individualized self


kind of spacious in terms of space


a shallow location to with access to layer one


it feels like its everywhere


perceiver is not right there


the idea of spaciousness or is there an analog in your system in terms of the idea of silence


its accessible when im in a deeper silence and stillness its accessible


sometimes i think maybe that is like a layer four glimpse


layer four and sort of more primed and ready when we make it to that content


i think it s and i think it s more because i feel more connected to other people as well


transparent nothingness


expansiveness to relate


even my thoughts


and so for something like an aliveness that you feel in the room


most people will never make it there


and then i usually become aware of some some sort of tension somewhere in the body and then as i keep my attention it just starts releasing and thats and so that experience makes me think that its its assuming that this experience of relaxing releasing conditioning thats so so i think thats the conditioning that keeps me in that layer one and


vast space


being like a container for whats arising and the stuff thats arising


i think its further and i also think there are way more layers than four


the joy is is always there and you actually just bring your attention to it


i was mostly in what i would describe based on your terminology as layer one right i was like there was a lot of negative emotion arising


dont have a lot to say about it it that that feels like a bunch of conceptual overlay that i want to get away from it just feels good it feels well spaciousness im coming at it from the layer three it just feels very full and beautiful and and its just good okay


an all pervading field of presence or easiness that feels profoundly rich complete full alive


you know youre being triggered down or it could be down to layer two


is there still the fullness and are you still the fullness


even if you were to go to a more heavy layer three experience in location four you know the definitions and feel and sense and what youve abided and up to this point its like a night and day difference from a layer three perspective


no aloneness


senselessness


um whats your experience with with layer one


sense of fullness and presence


and then if i can and then and then im often able to then kind of like say well you know whats seeing or or who am i and kind of get in touch with actually my awareness of being aware and and so


fullness have a quality of beingness


i was trying to generate a little bit of it in my body


layer two more spacious more distance more space around thoughts and emotions type of thing um


communicating more directly with reality


certainly that doesnt preclude you working on layer three


experiencing that presence or fullness


i am just used to like a more dead version of layer three in location two


thats blending out into spaciousness


so this is a great opportunity in your case because that s a big difference being going between layer two of location two


more in the forefront of experience


the spaciousness of it sounds spacious or feels spacious yeah it just feels stupid i guess we need to like wire me up to some kind of in some neuroscience lab and see if i have if im showing the right activity and inactivity in the right brain regions that would actually be interesting corroborating evidence i dont know how i would match up and maybe this is all totally diluted and ive never been in fundamental wellbeing and have you know this ambition thats expressing through my fabricated experience anyway


so the relocation to layer three um it would feel like that presence is pervading everything and you are it or you are a part of it youre inseparable from it um it is what you are essentially um will be a nondual experience of the divine


and then a release of that to layer two


and so it can start to feel you know its really still but then its generating bliss in the body here so thats what made me think maybe thats a deeper layer three experience


its just showing up


non sensory perception of layer three that youre calling an aliveness or or vibratory quality in everything thats not localized in the body then that can be an experience of layer three


reasonably calm and present


you have a very undifferentiated experience of presence and of layer three


stillness does it feel like the spaciousness contains everything or where is the spaciousness


into layer three and location two


it just feels like its here


probably layer two is going to be inaccessible


youve got the spaciousness in layer two which is a very different experience sense of spaciousness or emptiness


perceiving or aware at its most foundational level can kind of emerge from layer four to varying degrees or collapse


so if layer four there would be no sense of a container its not happening in anything theres nothing within anything so theres no sense of like that all pervading presence thats not there theres literally just this


i think if you can get that sense of self a bit looser from layer one


pervasiveness


spaciousness beingness


and layer one


i would say location one with layer one


actually discovered this because i was following a teacher who was saying that awareness is limitless infinite and so forth and if you extend your attention to the limits of your consciousness you cant find the limit but i can find the limit and uh its actually just this i have a sense that initially when i transitioned i had the sense that the world ended where my perceptions ended so there was nothing beyond these walls and so forth and when i explore that when i initially explored that i had the sense that there was this kind of curved limit like a sphere or like a like a disc and i also feel that if i try to go with my attention to to the limit like try to to sense the end of my consciousness or awareness or whatever


so many people will get to like layer two or something of location two and theyll think oh


yeah um its also when when the mind really quietens down or essentially layer one is out of subjective perception


sense of spaciousness or emptiness or spacious emptiness


rather than layer one


im the energy


fullness in the spaciousness


felt like it was something that i was observing or looking at now im being a little bit i dont know it just feels yeah im sort of you know im sort of sort of losing a little bit but yeah so maybe theres a bit more separation again now like its something im observing


so the the sensations of energy rising gets really strong like a bliss rising that starts to happen again and it gets really strong


layer one you can get a feel for is this a useful thing or would i prefer to have you know access to something like layer one from somewhere else whether a more awareness


it isnt heavily invested in protecting the narrative sense of self


youre experiencing layer one


nature or you know


i think it just be like a little easier to just to stay in location two and just go to the layer two


the layer three stuff seems a lot less accessible than the layer two triggers


it was sort of everything like a lot of colored spots in my eyes sense of things moving at the edge of my field a ringing tone in the ears and a lot of twitching of the arms and the legs constantly


would you say that a quality of aliveness


healing and feels amazing


so lets look at what in your mind and your assessment or your analysis is or your observation however you want to think about it is layer two


the thinker


so that would mean you know any qualities of joy or love compassion anything that feels sort of sacred or divine if you are prone to that experience and location three or otherwise that sense of presence pervading everything especially if you can get a sense of it being somehow conscious or intelligent those are sort of location three type layer three experiences


its more like the self just falls away and theres just this one thing um theres just one you priority what is is indivisible


layer two level and that your explorations are sort of going out from those directions


i havent i dont really understand how it could be full right now so i dont know what that means and so that really doesnt make sense when i look


it doesnt seem like the fullness at layer three can ever go away


there is awareness and things are arising


which you can get where theres sort of a sense of ones self seeing ones self


emptiness


really busy with the mind


cant have the look or see without without going into the mind


its a mystery


i would say youre somewhere deeper in location two layer three with that access to layer one


normal functioning and activity of the mind


there still is a sense of more of a solid identity


the love is infusing every object but its not i am not fully the love but everything i would look at would have an infusion of this love feeling


agent of whatevers happening in terms of your system what youre doing what youre thinking what youre feeling


i think im more prone to experiencing layer three


it would seem the moments that the centre and falls away and the self comes more less and less that


layer two that thats spaciousness of that distance


so i was tripping over the definition of i think its location three layer three around one singular emotion so the word emotion was tripping me because dont feel that as something localized to this form but theres a theres a tonal quality to that space or a i dont know how to maybe a frequency sensation


this thing is almost analogous to effective prayer when used in temporary ways and so its not even a situation necessarily where one would have to go to stay there for six months or some period of time it can its i think its very i think its probably what most people are referring to as effective really hyper effective prayer you know people that get people that really get to an experience like i think my mom is probably there for instance she really believes that like her prayers are always answered and occasionally one doesnt come true and it kind of freaks her out like you know maybe her relationship with god is having some issues or something like that right


so this and i think most christians have a more temporary experience of that theyre not as rooted in to location two layer three and you know their prayers occasionally work i think when they work theyre closer sort of in that type of direction or whatever and so you can you can maintain fluidity use location to layer three like that and not you know not have to lock that in for any period of time


it feels like a battle between my mind and the fullness right now


other stuff is sort of showing up in the nothingness


and when youre kind of in that in that sense of self it obviously feels like its kind of what you are or like youre looking from that perspective


most of europe around the barrio in the room or if im at home theres you know theres theres trees in the garden i look outside the windows and and it goes a bit further yeah


something connected with maybe a feeling of settling in


and layer three is like has a fullness


you know i think i would ask myself what would happen if you know in a random interruption exercise um i was going to sink into that joy and try to sink into you know layer three


guess with the eyes closed there is there is a sensation of emptiness dont get it when my eyes are open


spaciousness


the totality that was the experience


so and then in addition to you know other more percent changes in perception and a very deep layer four type experiences that youre reporting


sense you know given your background and what youve traditionally gravitated from you know force towards system wise rooted into for decades um you know all of that stuff for sure i mean its all so classically layer three


the senselessness at layer three and


im more on layer two feeling the spaciousness i think this was for sure the main place i was at and also looking to get to where when i was like in layer one mode and this is what i was looking for


no agency


i think youve got good access to layer two already and you can be fluid to it if you want to


i have very little emotion now apart from you know just a lightness um dont really get angry even if i if something upsets me its over almost before it starts um i dont really get attached to anything ive lost a lot of sense of memory or worrying about the past or think about the future im much more in the moment um and id be tempted to say location too except i dont have that nondual aspect i dont feel like ive got that i dont feel that theres someone here really i know that theres no one here like an individual entity watching but it still seems like theres a center here so if i look back i cant say yeah its its difficult to and i can step away from that as well so i can see it myself arising and i can see whatever else is arising as well so for example when i wake up in the morning there is no me at all its just quite nice very pleasant just sort of feel myself sinking into the body feeling the sensations and then it might be a little while it might be i dont know its probably only minutes but you know then a thought will pop up and then it kind of another thought and it might be about yesterday or tomorrow


im describing is layer three okay so theres the experience of for you you know that all pervading sense of presence of the divine but it remains an experience of it um and therefore relational even though theres a union its relational and um its if you compare you know the idea of what we experience say the sun we experience the sun in a certain way um but the experience of the sun as it is unto itself is entirely different to our experience of the sun and the same goes for the divine or you know the the ground of being while it remains relational its an entirely different experience than when that relationship falls away or collapses and theres nothing to experience it and theres only it as it is unto itself um which means the qualities as we experience them the qualities of it whether thats divinity or presence or beingness um those can no longer be perceived because theyre only perceived in in relation to it you know as it is known to the self um but when that reflection on experience ceases its just as it is unto itself its its you know without um go ahead


deeper and deeper into stillness and layer three


awareness of some something that was aware of what was arising


being complete


location two layer one


transparent


layer two type of description you know its spacious its empty


what im wondering about your description there is whether or not one couldnt describe that as still some spaciousness that youre rooted in in terms of maybe not as deep as other spaciousness that youre experiencing but it doesnt sound to me like youre you know very deeply embedded in thoughts and emotions


because it feels it doesnt feel exactly like what i would call pure peace because sometimes i feel that too where its just you know inner peace and it doesnt feel like pure joy and it feels really good and and it feels in the family of happiness as far as my experience of emotions and what i term kind of the general family of happiness and good feelings and yeah just just just pleasurable and which is good so it seems to me like what you know quote unquote bliss is or should be it does have more im trying to like like right now it has more energy in it theres almost more it seems like theres more energy in it than really kind of just pure bliss


in layer three that its you wouldnt notice it unless youre really comparing it to something


im spaciousness spaciousness and sort of focus on that sensation


and thats makes perfect sense to me because the gravity is really to those elements of layer three and location three you know right


including your focus on location to layer three


everything is presented as this or simply existence


presence ever there without the spaciousness


my goal is to get to be fluent between layer two or location two


i would describe myself now as a presence


i dont know that it was a rising in a way that you would have answered the questions that way during this interview per se but you clearly have a penchant for you know fluidity in general you know and you were able to detect oh wait a minute im getting a little too close in the direction of location four we dont want that you know it sort of you have enough sort of presence to be able to sense that kind of thing and generally thats the kind of thing that comes from someone who is used to having some fluidity you know its kind of a situational awareness if you will within fundamental well being in the same way that ordinary people have a situational awareness in life among different circumstances and stuff like that right and so im sure that theres fluidity here for sure but at least during this interview the way you described things the way you talked about things you know id pin it mostly at location two layer three


boring


location two layer three standpoint


layer one of course are all visible that


i think that there is some deconditioning that needs to happen in layer two because i was in layer two when that traumatic event happened


youre having glimpses of other places and thats usable


with the ability to sort of perceive into some parts of layer three


up through layer three and that location three experience which is where you get such ready access


pervasive love for some people


layer four is virtually impossible to get to


spaciousness is always trying to get peoples attention and pull them back


memory is definitely worse at this point


less emotion expression and layer three of location two


and then maybe if you get very strongly triggered it can pull you down to layer one but it sounds like you are relatively capable


and if weve asked things and youve been like oh it is actually everywhere and it is actually quite centerless so its heading in that direction


and layer three when your eyes are closed


that sounds great okay so based on what i am hearing i would say that you absolutely have an experience of location two layer three cool im trying or not that also now whether or not you are and you know that already all right otherwise you would have had to skip this interview to be digging a trench somewhere to run some water lines you know because or youll never be running water lines without paying a few thousand dollars to get the thing fixed and then it breaks down two minutes later and costs you another couple thousand dollars or whatever right right um and so theres a but that doesnt preclude the possibility that some that you have fluidity over to you know location three layer three


it sounds a lot to me like youre rooted primarily in layer three as your dominant layer


divine


perceive sounds


pervasive field


but theres never an experience of that self being like removed from or distinct from you know what youre experiencing as though you know like a like a duality where like that self is whats looking out your eyes and the stuff is out there and the self is in here


richness thats missing


creation reality the dream whatever is the stuff of the spaciousness is the stuff of the emptiness is the stuff of the spacious emptiness


layer three or even location three


beyond all opposites


but its definitely in the direction of layer four and in the direction of location four


and layer four


i think i probably zoom in a little bit too far or zoom in back down to like layer one


transcend


it may still feel like you have a lot of individualness and you know thoughts and emotions and things like that and thats perfectly fine because all of that can continue to exist at layer one


really bright sensation wise


terms of spaciousness


it yeah it feels its like the space between objects between main objects and the that that things objects are thing that space yeah and if i go a bit deeper when ive been doing like a deeper meditation i get to a point where its there is the center that im like the center


youve got space from thoughts and emotions


because at least theres some action now and im kind of like since transitioning a bit detached about you know my career who gives a shit you know and you know family just you know an idea like im more detached and i dont really care about a lot of things achievements you know and of course if i would just like to sit on my couch and you know i dont know become a mommy you know its i see why the system can be fearful about that you know yeah but yeah bringing it in into life more i think and and spending more time thinking deeper and see then where it takes me i think its a very good point


root into layer three um


i was so astonished at that feeling of love which was personal for me but i also understood its for everybody


because i feel like i should probably you know because i noticed the the other day when i was like oh i should this is not going to work i need to come out of this location four thing it was to location to layer three that i popped down to


emptiness and that spacious container


loss of affinity


centerless field


its very quiet


layer three location three


yeah things feel very still whatever this thing is and i really enjoy being in this stillness


so its localized to your body


meditation or you know when i kind of settle into stillness not


ive still probably because of you know heavy conditioning with with that ive prioritized you know as of the past couple of years you know so im you know have conditioned in addition to this you know a lot of fear based layer early layer one


love and compassion


emptiness or spaciousness


it feels like i am this empty space or openness i like openness just this openness kind of thing


feels like everything is just here


i used to be very very reactive i think i have some like you know neuroticism in my personality because i used to be very reactive before and thats still there if i get you know annoyed at work or you know have too much to do i get stressed out so i think theres like a reactivity and that also pushes me down even though its much less than it used to be


its lovely and comforting and it feels like theres a pleasant weight to it theres some sense of weight and pressure but its totally pleasant


aliveness


layer one is probably just trying to hold them back with what its doing


so it comes on immediately i can sink straight into it but its subtle and faint at first and then it begins to to deepen um it starts off as a stillness but just a gentle superficial stillness and and then the then the the feeling of well theres a theres a feeling of presence which is there all the time anyway


in a direction stillness


the more im noticing the unpleasantness of being verbal logical rational the more im noticing but not minding the egoic activity of other people you know violent communication and projection of anxiety and those kinds of things


theres lots of things that should bring it to the fore and they just dont


its kind of operating from


layer three thing


freedom and exploration or whether its around a sense of really getting to a place where it doesnt matter where im at um or to a place where its like okay this is the sense of fluidity


location four layer two when youre really locked into it just feels like some intense dark night of the soul you know maybe the most intense dark night of the soul experience that you could possibly imagine


spaciousness never really resonated even in jazz emptiness well just theres silence


and theres some more notes here like the deepest part of this is is the back of my heart feels really sort of timeless spaciousness or or like like like a like a grand dimension um i feel like im behind myself im watching myself im feeling like im a field of awareness the body is still here and it still has sensations and pain but its happening within a field sometimes when im driving it feels like everything is moving through me and again feeling im not having a back or a heart or a head so that so so more the back the back of the body the back of the head im feeling emptiness and when i notice this this then fills up the room um and i feel im in in the rooms um so to speak and so this can have like an emptiness feeling but then the body is still there but then when i when i when i go into this sort of spaciousness feeling behind myself im the body


i am that


how to sort of break the gravity of layer three to have it be less of a to go beyond it being a sense you know for many people


its like a its a way it can be a way of pulling your attention almost back into that more foundational layer of of awareness


location one layer one


and what you would be what would really indicate that shift is that duality returning to your experience where there really is a sense of something that is dissolving into or merging with the divine presence and everything and in addition to that meta emotion of love joy compassion um but you can also begin to experience in location two layer three


infinite field of pure potentiality


i am that fullness


but sometimes it feels so real because my layer one mind was was screaming well im losing my safety net and i mean the my savings reached me and that would be bad for my family


location one experience of layer two and so that more or less just fits in with the rest of your selfassessment regarding you know where you might be at what you might actually be experiencing um and whatever else yeah


spacious beingness


emptier


to me when i see luminosity its not so much when with with physical eyes if that makes sense its more like a seeing within mhm


layer three experience


nothing coming in my mind so im just being quiet unless im asked something


location four layer four is great if youre already independently wealthy and you can just you know go and be location four without a worry in the world


it does actually go back to layer two


if there is none present that maybe my default is layer two


little blandness


self


pervasive


simply because youve you possibly had a lot of experiences of layer three in location two that are already quite location three like and what you want to somehow get is a glimpse of that sense of union


basically you know some people systems inclined towards it some people systems dont inclined towards it um but its sort of smack on you know location two layer three type of experience


thats sort of everywhere another thing that made me ask that is because your your description of layer three in your document relates to a very specific and quite deep experience of layer three where it does feel like a liquid or like this thick quality thats that is a absolutely layer three


intelligence behind it


emptiness or the qualities of layer two


layer three type of experience


glimpse a more pure form of layer four in location four


thats a little bit of a difficult place to stick persistently and so its probably more of like a very high layer three


happy things are great


i just dont feel love like the way that it used to be its just this kind of its there all the time for everybody and everything and its you know it does intensify when you know my husband comes into the room lets say for example and theres you know a theres a like an impulse to smile right or when i see a close friend you know theres an impulse to smile um so theres a reaction there um but does it qualify as love the way that we used to define it i dont know


active mind


impersonal joy


m less concerned about you continuing to go deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper i dont have any issue with you playing around with that and you know i mean if anything it might be like maybe 10 to 20 of time on layer one methods


so if layer three hasnt been doing it for you if its its almost too far away


because when i focus on the qualities of space i mainly sense fullness and a substance like presence


you can start with with layer two which youve already got great access to


to layer one function


and then while youre in layer one you know youre able to produce a memory of layer three if thats what it is


i do but its but its very sort of quick and quick and its


the transition to layer four often will pull someone over to layer four


it certainly sounds like most of your experience of the deeper layer stuff is layer three everything you described is sort of layer three qualities and it sounds like you can actually sink into that very easily and you know a highly fluid to that place and in addition it shifts you to location two from having a more dual sort of perception and so thats really just awesome


so you can still have your sense of identity or a sense of what you are be you know the associated with layer three


sounds like a good direction to sink into


if you were going dual when you were into layer one


so that just kind of gently recedes into the background it feels like its still there period but its just not noticeable anymore and then its just completely present moment and its just the stuff around me theres things to look at there are sounds none of them are particularly none of them have any kind of pull or any kind of permanency things in the visual field dont feel particularly substantial they just theyre there and they can vanish again at any moment and sounds dont really seem to be anywhere theyre just appearing they dont sound like theyre coming from a particular direction um and it all feels kind of ordinary its just very um its just very routine and normal


but didnt really have too much time to dig into that whole agency thing you might already be getting glimpses or have had glimpses of location four my guess is youll get temporary experiences of it doing this you know it wont just like be some jump over in you know tomorrow morning and some locking into location four so you can probably you know get some temporary experiences of it get some more experiences of it and start to get a feel for it and at least its more shallow form before it really sort of deepens and locks in


all of that is is much more likely to show up with layer three than it wouldnt be


the layer four


think of spaciousness all the time


others like ones of layer one tend to be dissolved very rapidly by layer two


well right now the conversation is happening in the presence the presence is the bigger thing so now im trying to remember like i think its the opposite way around so theres more sort of like i am the whatever that personality is or i sort of believe it more


layer three can be a passive background to the activity of layer one


fullness right


aliveness or sense of beingness


emotion kind of the mind


yeah it feels full


a center in the spaciousness


spaciousness and emptiness


focused


so theres been plenty of time for for a lot of deconditioning and reconditioning to happen even at layer one


that fullness is basically permeating and infusing the experience


almost like a place of belonging


its there and location two layer three and then the personal side drops off and location three and then emotion itself drops off and location four and thats whats providing that richness you know of that experience and so its although there can still be you know a sense of presence found in the experience and stuff like that its like an alien type of presence compared to you know what someone experienced up to that and its going to you know youre typically speaking youre going to lose access to it in a matter of weeks and root more into just layer four and location four


layer two which is really you know the that is the classical endpoint for so many systems and traditions that is identifying as the you know spacious empty presence of awareness um and feeling that you are that and are untouched by all experience and everything you describe is is really that kind of classical enlightenment in many systems


layer two or and i have had like particularly in gis like a feeling of fullness almost like something thats about to burst or an excited anticipation or potential


spaciousness emptiness


there isnt a distinction between you and it


layer one id say is more in the head theres more thoughts a little more noise too is more in the flow


like layer three is sort of you know fluid but its sort of like i dont know lounging around its like sort of there but in more of the location three state it was like it was almost dancing


sense of presence


but the shift into layer four is you know it can be an intense one and it really is very different than everything that comes before it and so you know lots of strange things can happen on the way to it in the direction of it you know sort of associated with it um and its possible that when you felt like you had made progress in that direction and then you had this other sort of experience come in that it was you know just one of those types of things in that direction


rich experience


it feels like like one little point one little point trying to poke into all the fullness


layer three has fullness associated with it


through layer one as an example


fullness or awareness


like the qualities of layer two is just you know spaciousness or emptiness a sense of everything arising within it as it if your universe view feels like kind of this um all containing sense of this one thing thats just arising that is um i suppose if its layer two in essence it would feel somehow like it is the space within which the universe arises or that the universe is somehow composed of a spacious emptiness or that type of quality


its just like quiet everythings quiet its like a quiet acceptance


personal sense of self


you have a sense of perception arising from spaciousness in terms of the thoughts in terms of the vision and auditory based exercises in terms of whats noticing it


listener


its not necessarily because its temporary and because the reference point is remaining at layer one um its kind of its not necessarily reflecting on and deepening into the sense of actually being that all pervading presence even though that is your subjective experience if i ask you about it yeah


i dont know if id call it resonance i would call it like i i can be there


your is getting a lot more freedom some of those types of things are bubbling up more than they would otherwise


dont feel a sense of boundaries but guess i keep identifying the center still as an eye because i guess there are times when i feel like more real nondual by which i mean like um


theres much more flow now than there used to be


mentally quieter


when i take the eucharist and its in my mouth and im swallowing and then i go back to the pew and then i sit down and then all of a sudden theres just even even when im there at the rail it can start that i just feel its like joy coming from


massive landscape in layer three


contains everything


and it sounds to me like its a classic case of going to layer two


location one layer two right now because im feeling that im seeing from the body um but at the same time its like completely different from before because im like the peace and the stillness


so spaciousness and stuff layer too


you describe it as a joy a positivity a contentment a warmth a glow


emptiness of layer two


fullness element


and maybe the way to get at that a little bit more is to go on to what happens when you do actually sink in and when you have the thing in your sternum in the center of your chest or whatever basically happening that that sense of a void i mean a void is one of those things that you hear you know thats a term thats very strongly associated with layer two and certainly especially at a nondual type of location like location two


could kind of find this vibrating quality to perception


what about the qualities that are associated with layer three


bunch of separate objects out there that its looking at


thats probably maybe what your mind is thinking of might that shift might involve


do you have a sense of your identity being centered in layer one


so do you notice any other changes weve talked about layer two and spaciousness and


yeah it makes me wonder if like some part of the layer one identity has discovered that this is a way that it can


new level of stillness and silence


with layer four


layer one sort of sense of self type of stuff that youre paying attention to there


when its when presence is filling the whole space as its still radiating from you


fullness this


theres a quietness theres a vividness to the visual field things look more beautiful theres more appreciation was kind of a question that kind of had for you is it feels like for me beauty is a little bit of a gateway when i notice and im not talking about something that has to be you know prototypically beautiful but just like the pot sitting in the kitchen that suddenly look beautiful and


funny


really good feeling


i just see things as thing nonliving material


it just is


feeling of spaciousness or just layer two


you know the it can be worth thinking into for some people if they get that sense of aliveness in the body that if you just really sink into it for some people that can open up deeper aspects of layer three stillness the silence beneath that aliveness kind of has a depth to it


how deep you are in layer three


clear light of awareness


war zones that occur in the spiritual and religious communities


were just looking mostly at how the fullness is showing up


i would just be continuing to move in the direction of presence you know continuing to sink in in that direction of presence and seeing you know if you can pull yourself into more of a persistent experience of layer three


so it kind of felt like that after enlightenment that everything is just perfect nothing bothers me and everything is easy and i can do anything and


perception of the spaciousness


nothingness


so when i get triggered so the sort of the triggers where im like pleading with reality to be different than it is that kind of trigger that when its happening so when were at the house up in emerald hills one of the people that was there was talking about contracting around things and expanding outside of that which was a term that i hadnt really heard used before and that really kind of mapped well to what im doing right like when thats happening i feel like im just like shrink wrapped around whatever problem is happening and then exactly and then the relief comes when i notice that im shrink wrapped around the problem which obviously is going to be happening from a perspective of layer two


presence in


increasingly permeating and infusing things


so when im in layer three definitely its full


maybe be the layer one experience on location two


i think just like two times maybe um like exactly as described in the book just the spaciousness emptiness at one point became just fullness and but it only happened to me after like deep deep yoga and meditation like for a long time


and also layer three


it was just this experience of all inclusive love like there was no separation between anything and um it was incredible


stillness and silence


but now if i feel into the spaciousness it doesnt have boundaries it doesnt have it doesnt really end no so the space seems endless


im suspecting that its layer three from location two its my guess


like i just look at the tree and i feel joy and i feel i dont know what im looking for here


layer four is less than optimal for a lot of functioning


fullness


beingness so beingness when you say that and when i when i tune into that i feel like for me that feels like more of a layer two thing


presence all pervading kind of thing


i think you have a lot more you can trust your deeper intuitions as you referred to them if you can if you can resist the temptation or the inclination to doubt everything it would help you deepen because the thing thats doubting it is layer one


you have a very quiet nothingness and layer two for you and location two


switch into layer one


greater neutrality and observation of what is it can be more reasonable and balanced and relating to others


all right um so you mentioned your goal is first uh location two layer three so it sounds like youve got that already of course theres always more to explore


all pervading


layer two of location two


ive been in layer one for so long


so thats sort of after layer two


but the identity has a sort of inertia to it and the longer i stay with that layer three experience the more like slowly that identity starts maybe to move a little bit


alternating presence


space spaciousness


if that really drops away completely um that may be more noticeable but even then because of the lack of self reflection its very possible for finders to just not even notice that right um but yeah thats thats a significant kind of shift when layer three really disappears from perception along with any remaining sense of even the most impersonal form of self or beingness


its got an impersonal quality to it


that that aloneness quality that seems to come up sometimes in association with layer two


layer twos primary properties are things like spaciousness and emptiness


i dont think a lot of people would necessarily use those words okay some people use them and sure think if you if you have the experience in a very complete way which means identity has shifted into being that all pervading field of presence um then probably if you read that you could be like okay i could describe it this way um but awareness is a very its a very general term and some people will use that to describe layer two or so


experiencing all of that is nothingness


this is a stillness for


when there was stress there was a lot of stress stuff like that that still arises but now it feels like less of a default so so now because of that whatever happened after that like i feel like im more in layer two


primarily joy


what about a sense of being in union with something either the divine or you know like an all conscious presence of sorts but not being one with it not being it right yeah but being you know sort of increasingly merging in with it


so it sounds um definitely you know interject if this doesnt sound right to you um were just trying to make sense of your way of interpreting your experience and and languaging it but it does sound like your attention is much more on the space essentially or on the the emptiness surrounding objects of perception or the space between them and because your attention is much more on that the spaciousness is almost like more in the foreground or more what your attention is centering on than the things and so the things kind of are in the background you could think of or more backgrounded than the spaciousness which produces you know this focus on the spaciousness or the emptiness in which everything is arising


you know almost made me pee my pants when it first happened to me in india 25 years ago it was like it wasnt just there was this amazing fullness it was like i was i was sitting next to the ganges river late at night with this huge rapids right next to me and suddenly i was the rock that i was leaning on and then i was the rapids and then i was the entire ganges and then i was the entire planet and then it just kept going to way beyond what my mind could kind of keep up so that was the flavor of my of my initial awakening


do feel like there still is fullness


layer one in terms of your sense of self and your dominant perspective then there would be


feel less tired and way more excited about the natural world


so see what see if you can really deepen your access to layer to be able to shift their fluidly at least to a very you know complete experience of it if not to an identity shift and see what that does you know when when theres a trigger or something even if its a very subtle trigger just really sink into that layer two experience and see what that does


not a static expansion


sense of emptiness


isolated there or kind of not really aware of layer one um and you you are still aware of layer one then it would show up


you know have a center so to speak of increasing layers of dense feeling in the spaciousness


sometimes emptiness


layer one is going to be very present and subjective experience and you know the quality


layer two experience


and we try to see where where youve come back to or whether theres some fluidity in the system thats producing sort of the more layer three type experiences that youve regained access to


like its holding everything like everythings appearing in it i cant see the edges of it though its a bit its a bit like um guess the ocean would be a good metaphor mean although you kind of he know that the ocean has limits you cant see them but i dont i dont know theres any limits to this because i cant see them and i dont you dont have that reference point to know theres any limits to it so i suppose im probably not using the word container correctly


layer four is difficult to get to


so that makes a lot of sense okay so lets then think about location three lets see if we can find a location three type experience in layer three


comfort and the fullness


layer one can have that sort of individual sense of self arising as part of that one field of experience


but it does sort of have a permeating quality in the space as well


steadily and then i descend into layer one and thats unpleasant


location three combination layer one


awareness


its there and then i feel a sense of fullness really


which is why i dont think that you should just keep inching your way deeper into layer two that youre already deeply rooted in when youre getting really solid access to layer three


its it sounds like what youre experiencing there is is a is an awareness or an ability to perceive layer one and the sense of self that it generates from wherever youre at


fullness presence


it just feels like everything is just here


so it feels like its outside the fullness trying to poke into it or does it feel like its in the fullness somehow


environment under trigger its more like 11 and then kind of off on my own doing my thing


lets say its just an open space to me like its theres just if i step back so if im stepping back and just um saying if theres no thought if im if im not putting thought into it it just its kind of just is so theres not really a sea without thought


boundary or maybe even sometimes a little over into that experience


flat


either location one with some shallow access to layer two


capable of great focus and efficiency


hearer or a listener


less identification with thoughts


okayness the beingness


it sounds to me more like youve got some space youve got some distance from thoughts and emotions and


theyre in the direction of something you want to deepen into and so it doesnt really matter whether that turns out to be a vocation deeper in location to layer three or whether its location three layer three it gives you a direction that you can work with to sink into and deepen your experience of layer three


rich and the sensory experience


pulled back to probably layer one


field of awareness


joy is always my weak spot


only more illusion is lost


it feels too small


life is full it goes fast


so would it be accurate to say that when youre there your sense of what you are is that presence of fullness pervading everything


i feel like really just im in layer one i think when im busy


felt nice i was kind of surprised surprised at that point


you can have a lot change in your state of consciousness in terms of your sense of self in terms of a lot of things related to fundamental wellbeing without realizing it you can even have emotions fall away and suddenly at some point you realize oh theyre all gone you know when that happened and it can have been you know some weeks sometimes um so yes and you know any of these changes can happen without them appearing dramatic or sudden or even being noticed immediately so definitely dont discard your experience or expect you know if theres some significant deepening that has to happen in that way it usually doesnt um okay yeah thank you okay well your experience sounds sounds like layer two


theres spaciousness at another point theres the body at another point


layer three of location two and still be very much personally in love with someone


make that whole spacious thing show up in one way