GzGIjfQsxl4-00000-00000019-00000250 the National Infrastructure Development
GzGIjfQsxl4-00001-00000252-00000623 Company Limited NID Co is a state-owned
GzGIjfQsxl4-00002-00000624-00000952 company of Trinidad and Tobago it was
GzGIjfQsxl4-00003-00000953-00001283 founded on January 11 2005 but the
GzGIjfQsxl4-00004-00001284-00001483 inaugural board was appointed on the
GzGIjfQsxl4-00005-00001484-00001925 22nd of March 2005 it is carrying out
GzGIjfQsxl4-00006-00001926-00002156 infrastructure projects that form vision
GzGIjfQsxl4-00007-00002157-00002410 2020 which is a plan created by the
GzGIjfQsxl4-00008-00002411-00002657 government to achieve first world status
GzGIjfQsxl4-00009-00002658-00003038 by the year 2020 nid co major
GzGIjfQsxl4-00010-00003039-00003247 infrastructure projects missions are
GzGIjfQsxl4-00011-00003248-00003481 drainage and flood control reclamation
GzGIjfQsxl4-00012-00003482-00003731 highway and transportation sectors and
GzGIjfQsxl4-00013-00003732-00004001 also NID Co is responsible for the
GzGIjfQsxl4-00014-00004002-00004226 provision of project management services
GzGIjfQsxl4-00015-00004227-00004406 procurement of consultants and
GzGIjfQsxl4-00016-00004407-00004631 contractors and oversight of project
GzGIjfQsxl4-00017-00004632-00004892 execution within agreed time costs and
GzGIjfQsxl4-00018-00004893-00005545 quality parameters
GzGIjfQsxl4-00019-00005546-00006249 topic NID Co projects
GzGIjfQsxl4-00020-00006250-00006659 water taxis service it's owned by NID Co
GzGIjfQsxl4-00021-00006659-00007005 San Fernando 2.14 Highway proposed
GzGIjfQsxl4-00022-00007006-00007329 highway Trinidad rapid railway in
GzGIjfQsxl4-00023-00007330-00007593 September 2010 the project was scrapped
GzGIjfQsxl4-00024-00007594-00007791 by the People's Partnership government
GzGIjfQsxl4-00025-00007792-00008229 our rangas flyover
G_7WPVHi1CE-00000-00000944-00001062 hi everyone
G_7WPVHi1CE-00001-00001063-00001350 welcome to the tanner lecture second
G_7WPVHi1CE-00002-00001351-00001671 event of the two event program
G_7WPVHi1CE-00003-00001672-00002055 honoring our series tonight and we are
G_7WPVHi1CE-00004-00002056-00002375 thrilled to welcome kate crawford back
G_7WPVHi1CE-00005-00002376-00002567 to the stage
G_7WPVHi1CE-00006-00002568-00002926 and in to respond to her wonderful
G_7WPVHi1CE-00007-00002927-00003039 her talk
G_7WPVHi1CE-00008-00003040-00003359 yesterday we have three extremely
G_7WPVHi1CE-00009-00003360-00003670 well-known and highly respected scholars
G_7WPVHi1CE-00010-00003671-00003790 here with us
G_7WPVHi1CE-00011-00003792-00003975 before we get started i want to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00012-00003976-00004175 acknowledge the situation that's going
G_7WPVHi1CE-00013-00004176-00004303 on in the world
G_7WPVHi1CE-00014-00004304-00004638 it is it is regrettable it is horrible
G_7WPVHi1CE-00015-00004639-00004951 and it's it's it's almost
G_7WPVHi1CE-00016-00004952-00005399 unfathomable i i want to i i feel
G_7WPVHi1CE-00017-00005400-00005599 and i think all of us do a bit hesitant
G_7WPVHi1CE-00018-00005600-00005838 about doing anything else
G_7WPVHi1CE-00019-00005839-00006054 when something like this is going on but
G_7WPVHi1CE-00020-00006055-00006431 i i hope that some of the ideas here
G_7WPVHi1CE-00021-00006431-00006759 will have some positive reflection
G_7WPVHi1CE-00022-00006759-00007031 on events in the world and what we're
G_7WPVHi1CE-00023-00007031-00007334 we're all trying to make sense of today
G_7WPVHi1CE-00024-00007336-00007455 so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00025-00007456-00007678 there's many things to talk about i want
G_7WPVHi1CE-00026-00007679-00007998 to encourage everyone online to make use
G_7WPVHi1CE-00027-00008000-00008391 of the of the ability to enter your own
G_7WPVHi1CE-00028-00008392-00008583 your own questions and we're going to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00029-00008584-00008774 engage a pretty lively dialogue we want
G_7WPVHi1CE-00030-00008775-00008967 this to be fun and interesting for
G_7WPVHi1CE-00031-00008968-00009078 everyone
G_7WPVHi1CE-00032-00009079-00009183 so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00033-00009184-00009519 to jump off kate as most of you know is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00034-00009520-00009806 a research professor at usc annenberg
G_7WPVHi1CE-00035-00009807-00010014 and senior principal researcher at
G_7WPVHi1CE-00036-00010015-00010159 microsoft
G_7WPVHi1CE-00037-00010160-00010310 she's also
G_7WPVHi1CE-00038-00010311-00010535 the inaugural visiting
G_7WPVHi1CE-00039-00010536-00010751 chair for artificial intelligence and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00040-00010752-00010942 justice at a call
G_7WPVHi1CE-00041-00010943-00011271 no miles superior in in paris
G_7WPVHi1CE-00042-00011272-00011527 and she's also leading an international
G_7WPVHi1CE-00043-00011528-00011719 working group on the foundations of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00044-00011720-00011887 machine learning
G_7WPVHi1CE-00045-00011888-00012159 she's advised policymakers in the un the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00046-00012160-00012470 white house the ftc and the european
G_7WPVHi1CE-00047-00012471-00012583 parliament
G_7WPVHi1CE-00048-00012584-00012807 she's received a number of prizes and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00049-00012808-00013007 her latest book
G_7WPVHi1CE-00050-00013008-00013311 is atlas ai power politics and the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00051-00013312-00013503 planetary costs of artificial
G_7WPVHi1CE-00052-00013504-00013630 intelligence
G_7WPVHi1CE-00053-00013631-00013999 which is really our subject today
G_7WPVHi1CE-00054-00014000-00014094 our next
G_7WPVHi1CE-00055-00014095-00014247 our first panelist
G_7WPVHi1CE-00056-00014247-00014479 is going to be marianne prakad
G_7WPVHi1CE-00057-00014480-00014671 she's a professor here at berkeley of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00058-00014672-00014935 sociology and the director of the social
G_7WPVHi1CE-00059-00014936-00015127 science matrix
G_7WPVHi1CE-00060-00015128-00015327 she received her phd from harvard
G_7WPVHi1CE-00061-00015328-00015607 university in 2000 and is an alumna of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00062-00015608-00015991 they call normal superior in paris and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00063-00015991-00016143 i'm sure can pronounce it better than i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00064-00016144-00016255 am
G_7WPVHi1CE-00065-00016256-00016463 she's also a comparative sociologist by
G_7WPVHi1CE-00066-00016464-00016791 training and she's author of the book
G_7WPVHi1CE-00067-00016792-00017143 economists and societies discipline and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00068-00017144-00017350 profession in the united states britain
G_7WPVHi1CE-00069-00017351-00017711 and france 1890s to the 1990s
G_7WPVHi1CE-00070-00017712-00017894 she's also published works exploring the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00071-00017895-00018111 national variations in neo-liberal
G_7WPVHi1CE-00072-00018112-00018222 traditions
G_7WPVHi1CE-00073-00018223-00018614 political mores and valuation cultures
G_7WPVHi1CE-00074-00018615-00018839 most recently her research focus has
G_7WPVHi1CE-00075-00018840-00019039 shifted to the rise consolidation and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00076-00019040-00019239 social consequences of new
G_7WPVHi1CE-00077-00019240-00019479 classification regimes powered by
G_7WPVHi1CE-00078-00019480-00019694 digital data and algorithms and she's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00079-00019695-00019919 got a forthcoming book on this called
G_7WPVHi1CE-00080-00019920-00020150 the ordinal society from harvard
G_7WPVHi1CE-00081-00020151-00020407 university press
G_7WPVHi1CE-00082-00020408-00020591 trevor paglin
G_7WPVHi1CE-00083-00020592-00020871 jefferson uh we're proud that trevor is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00084-00020872-00021086 an alum from berkeley he did his
G_7WPVHi1CE-00085-00021087-00021335 undergrad here he has an mfa from the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00086-00021336-00021607 university of chicago and then he fina
G_7WPVHi1CE-00087-00021608-00021927 he completed his phd in geography here
G_7WPVHi1CE-00088-00021928-00022183 at berkeley he has gone on to be a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00089-00022184-00022494 renowned artist and geographer he lives
G_7WPVHi1CE-00090-00022495-00022711 and works in new york city he has
G_7WPVHi1CE-00091-00022712-00022967 numerous books and one-person
G_7WPVHi1CE-00092-00022968-00023263 exhibitions he's been featured in many
G_7WPVHi1CE-00093-00023264-00023503 major art shows around the world he's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00094-00023504-00023694 launched his work into orbit
G_7WPVHi1CE-00095-00023695-00023894 he's contributed to the academy
G_7WPVHi1CE-00096-00023895-00024047 award-winning film
G_7WPVHi1CE-00097-00024048-00024214 citizen four
G_7WPVHi1CE-00098-00024215-00024407 and he's also created
G_7WPVHi1CE-00099-00024408-00024567 a radioactive
G_7WPVHi1CE-00100-00024568-00024750 public sculpture
G_7WPVHi1CE-00101-00024751-00025111 in the exclusion zone of fukushima japan
G_7WPVHi1CE-00102-00025112-00025350 he has also won the electronic frontier
G_7WPVHi1CE-00103-00025351-00025439 foundation
G_7WPVHi1CE-00104-00025440-00025878 pioneer award and was named in 2017 a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00105-00025879-00026127 macarthur fellow
G_7WPVHi1CE-00106-00026127-00026246 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00107-00026247-00026543 the last the last panelists we have is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00108-00026544-00026743 is sonia kaitel
G_7WPVHi1CE-00109-00026744-00027031 who is professor of law here at berkeley
G_7WPVHi1CE-00110-00027032-00027239 she focuses on the intersection of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00111-00027239-00027446 technology intellectual property and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00112-00027447-00027614 civil rights
G_7WPVHi1CE-00113-00027616-00027807 she also studies privacy and freedom of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00114-00027808-00027911 speech
G_7WPVHi1CE-00115-00027912-00028111 her current projects focus on artificial
G_7WPVHi1CE-00116-00028112-00028446 intelligence and discrimination
G_7WPVHi1CE-00117-00028447-00028590 and she has been
G_7WPVHi1CE-00118-00028591-00028774 she is the author of a forthcoming book
G_7WPVHi1CE-00119-00028775-00029070 on art advertising and activism and a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00120-00029072-00029455 previous book property outlaws
G_7WPVHi1CE-00121-00029456-00029855 she is is is is also a she has written a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00122-00029856-00030111 number of articles on these topics and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00123-00030112-00030318 as you can see we are we are very
G_7WPVHi1CE-00124-00030319-00030470 fortunate to have
G_7WPVHi1CE-00125-00030472-00030823 three incredibly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00126-00030824-00031087 uh appropriate and and highly skilled
G_7WPVHi1CE-00127-00031088-00031343 experts on the topics that intersect
G_7WPVHi1CE-00128-00031344-00031487 around kate's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00129-00031488-00031783 lecture yesterday so what i'd like to do
G_7WPVHi1CE-00130-00031783-00032102 is open it up for trevor or sorry for
G_7WPVHi1CE-00131-00032103-00032383 marianne to begin with a few remarks in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00132-00032383-00032687 response to kate's talk then trevor then
G_7WPVHi1CE-00133-00032688-00032927 sonia and then we'll start some dialogue
G_7WPVHi1CE-00134-00032928-00033143 between the panelists and then soon
G_7WPVHi1CE-00135-00033144-00033343 we'll open it up to include your own
G_7WPVHi1CE-00136-00033344-00033511 questions so please enter the your
G_7WPVHi1CE-00137-00033512-00033743 questions at any time okay
G_7WPVHi1CE-00138-00033744-00033977 marion please take the stage
G_7WPVHi1CE-00139-00033978-00034183 [Music]
G_7WPVHi1CE-00140-00034184-00034583 hello everyone um it it's really a great
G_7WPVHi1CE-00141-00034584-00034902 and uh truly humbling uh pleasure
G_7WPVHi1CE-00142-00034903-00035159 and to comment at this august event that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00143-00035160-00035302 is the tunnel lecture and i want to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00144-00035303-00035479 thank the ten electorate committee for
G_7WPVHi1CE-00145-00035480-00035679 inviting me to do so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00146-00035680-00035951 as i was listening to kate yesterday
G_7WPVHi1CE-00147-00035952-00036215 i kept thinking that this was exactly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00148-00036216-00036471 what a tanner lecturer should be
G_7WPVHi1CE-00149-00036472-00036711 a text of breathtaking ambition
G_7WPVHi1CE-00150-00036712-00036999 beautifully crafted much like her book
G_7WPVHi1CE-00151-00037000-00037255 a clear and sustained argument about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00152-00037256-00037518 ai's ground truth problem richly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00153-00037519-00037807 illustrated with compelling examples and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00154-00037808-00038207 a forceful and flawless delivery
G_7WPVHi1CE-00155-00038208-00038430 ground truth we understand refers to the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00156-00038431-00038662 human ambition to capture the truth on
G_7WPVHi1CE-00157-00038663-00038935 the ground the world as it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00158-00038936-00039199 kate yesterday gave three examples
G_7WPVHi1CE-00159-00039200-00039446 perspective in the 15th century
G_7WPVHi1CE-00160-00039447-00039743 photography in the 19th and military
G_7WPVHi1CE-00161-00039744-00040039 aerial reconnaissance in the 20s
G_7WPVHi1CE-00162-00040040-00040199 the equivalent today would be things
G_7WPVHi1CE-00163-00040200-00040495 like satellite images lidar visual
G_7WPVHi1CE-00164-00040496-00040695 recognition algorithms
G_7WPVHi1CE-00165-00040696-00040990 they too seek to capture a truth about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00166-00040991-00041151 the world out there
G_7WPVHi1CE-00167-00041152-00041343 and they are pretty good at it
G_7WPVHi1CE-00168-00041344-00041718 my phone opens when i and only i look at
G_7WPVHi1CE-00169-00041719-00041799 it
G_7WPVHi1CE-00170-00041800-00042023 my car tells me how to go someplace and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00171-00042024-00042183 rarely misses
G_7WPVHi1CE-00172-00042184-00042423 my computer writes what i dictate in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00173-00042424-00042639 both french and english despite my
G_7WPVHi1CE-00174-00042640-00042943 strong accent in the latter
G_7WPVHi1CE-00175-00042944-00043158 so what is there to care about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00176-00043159-00043358 well for one thing
G_7WPVHi1CE-00177-00043359-00043615 and we heard that yesterday in the talk
G_7WPVHi1CE-00178-00043616-00043839 there's a lot of ugliness hidden beneath
G_7WPVHi1CE-00179-00043840-00044095 the lines of computer code that make my
G_7WPVHi1CE-00180-00044096-00044423 life more frictionless today
G_7WPVHi1CE-00181-00044424-00044758 in short we have private appropriation
G_7WPVHi1CE-00182-00044759-00044943 labor exploitation
G_7WPVHi1CE-00183-00044944-00045111 natural destruction
G_7WPVHi1CE-00184-00045112-00045343 nothing very surprising here
G_7WPVHi1CE-00185-00045344-00045558 that's capitalism for you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00186-00045559-00045718 it delivers
G_7WPVHi1CE-00187-00045719-00045871 but it stinks
G_7WPVHi1CE-00188-00045872-00046118 we've known that since the industrial
G_7WPVHi1CE-00189-00046119-00046295 revolution
G_7WPVHi1CE-00190-00046296-00046486 another reason to care is that the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00191-00046487-00046807 ground truth of society is elusive
G_7WPVHi1CE-00192-00046808-00047046 dangerous and ugly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00193-00047047-00047167 elusive
G_7WPVHi1CE-00194-00047168-00047455 a lot of stuff cannot be ground truth
G_7WPVHi1CE-00195-00047456-00047655 because there's no ground for it there's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00196-00047656-00047823 no bijection
G_7WPVHi1CE-00197-00047824-00048039 as kate showed between emotion and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00198-00048040-00048215 facial expression
G_7WPVHi1CE-00199-00048216-00048495 dangerous a lot of stuff should not be
G_7WPVHi1CE-00200-00048496-00048727 ground truth because that ground is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00201-00048728-00048855 private
G_7WPVHi1CE-00202-00048856-00048967 ugly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00203-00048968-00049167 all societies are people sorting
G_7WPVHi1CE-00204-00049168-00049511 machines splitting and lumping machines
G_7WPVHi1CE-00205-00049512-00049823 any search for social ground truths
G_7WPVHi1CE-00206-00049824-00050046 will find itself mirrored in value
G_7WPVHi1CE-00207-00050047-00050483 judgments social hierarchies and social
G_7WPVHi1CE-00208-00050484-00050758 exclusions unlike things though
G_7WPVHi1CE-00209-00050759-00050974 people do care about the way they are
G_7WPVHi1CE-00210-00050975-00051279 classified measured and ranked
G_7WPVHi1CE-00211-00051279-00051470 and so we've seen a lot of public and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00212-00051471-00051742 expert reversion at the work that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00213-00051744-00052030 human-facing algorithms too
G_7WPVHi1CE-00214-00052032-00052254 but here's what i think kate is telling
G_7WPVHi1CE-00215-00052255-00052382 us
G_7WPVHi1CE-00216-00052383-00052607 the social ground truth created by
G_7WPVHi1CE-00217-00052608-00052838 scraping and labeling the internet is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00218-00052839-00053030 often uncomfortable
G_7WPVHi1CE-00219-00053032-00053391 morally objectionable or downright awful
G_7WPVHi1CE-00220-00053391-00053742 but it is not necessarily inaccurate
G_7WPVHi1CE-00221-00053744-00053911 quite the contrary
G_7WPVHi1CE-00222-00053912-00054207 the problem often comes from the fact
G_7WPVHi1CE-00223-00054208-00054382 that it is so true
G_7WPVHi1CE-00224-00054383-00054623 in the sense that it may be capturing
G_7WPVHi1CE-00225-00054624-00054982 the world as it is opinionated
G_7WPVHi1CE-00226-00054983-00055135 prejudiced
G_7WPVHi1CE-00227-00055136-00055263 violent
G_7WPVHi1CE-00228-00055264-00055399 predatory
G_7WPVHi1CE-00229-00055400-00055566 oppressive
G_7WPVHi1CE-00230-00055567-00055823 those are things that cannot be fixed
G_7WPVHi1CE-00231-00055824-00056007 iteratively
G_7WPVHi1CE-00232-00056008-00056263 so rather than thinking about ground
G_7WPVHi1CE-00233-00056264-00056503 truths as data sets that must be
G_7WPVHi1CE-00234-00056504-00056638 de-biased
G_7WPVHi1CE-00235-00056639-00056911 perhaps we should regard some of them
G_7WPVHi1CE-00236-00056912-00057215 as holy illegitimate so we heard
G_7WPVHi1CE-00237-00057216-00057423 yesterday there's no legitimate visual
G_7WPVHi1CE-00238-00057424-00057735 representation of a concept like that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00239-00057736-00058087 or function like a ceo
G_7WPVHi1CE-00240-00058088-00058375 other data sets maybe ought to be built
G_7WPVHi1CE-00241-00058376-00058671 anew in line with evolving conceptions
G_7WPVHi1CE-00242-00058672-00058942 of justice identity
G_7WPVHi1CE-00243-00058944-00059199 and dignity
G_7WPVHi1CE-00244-00059200-00059494 but i'd like to raise a puzzle
G_7WPVHi1CE-00245-00059495-00059726 thinking about ground truths as active
G_7WPVHi1CE-00246-00059727-00060015 political projects rather than as
G_7WPVHi1CE-00247-00060016-00060271 passive objects to be de-politicized
G_7WPVHi1CE-00248-00060272-00060447 around the edges may
G_7WPVHi1CE-00249-00060448-00060550 in fact
G_7WPVHi1CE-00250-00060551-00060863 return to an old promise of algorithms
G_7WPVHi1CE-00251-00060864-00061126 in many instances including credit
G_7WPVHi1CE-00252-00061127-00061311 policy insurance
G_7WPVHi1CE-00253-00061312-00061582 a lot of algorithms were developed in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00254-00061583-00061847 fact on the claim you know claiming to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00255-00061848-00062126 bolster fairness in a context where
G_7WPVHi1CE-00256-00062127-00062430 democrats demographic categorizations
G_7WPVHi1CE-00257-00062432-00062791 and open discrimination was the norm
G_7WPVHi1CE-00258-00062791-00063111 somehow we forgot that history
G_7WPVHi1CE-00259-00063112-00063366 in our rush to analyze what's wrong with
G_7WPVHi1CE-00260-00063367-00063687 today's technologies we've lost sight of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00261-00063688-00064054 what was terribly wrong with yesterday's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00262-00064055-00064159 so one
G_7WPVHi1CE-00263-00064160-00064454 very honest honest question that i'd
G_7WPVHi1CE-00264-00064455-00064726 like to post to kate is have we gained
G_7WPVHi1CE-00265-00064727-00064854 nothing
G_7WPVHi1CE-00266-00064855-00065079 and if we have gained something
G_7WPVHi1CE-00267-00065079-00065254 what can we learn from that earlier
G_7WPVHi1CE-00268-00065255-00065550 transition that we can bring to bear on
G_7WPVHi1CE-00269-00065551-00065775 the next one
G_7WPVHi1CE-00270-00065776-00065950 the other comment
G_7WPVHi1CE-00271-00065951-00066126 and it's more common than a question
G_7WPVHi1CE-00272-00066127-00066399 really is much broader and here i am
G_7WPVHi1CE-00273-00066400-00066631 expanding well beyond visual
G_7WPVHi1CE-00274-00066632-00066855 classifications which were the topic of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00275-00066856-00067126 yesterday's lecture
G_7WPVHi1CE-00276-00067127-00067319 kate said yesterday that we get the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00277-00067320-00067567 algorithms of our ground truth she's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00278-00067568-00067679 right
G_7WPVHi1CE-00279-00067680-00068006 but why do we get these algorithms in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00280-00068007-00068191 the first place
G_7WPVHi1CE-00281-00068192-00068423 why do we strive for this kind of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00282-00068424-00068567 ordering
G_7WPVHi1CE-00283-00068568-00068782 from a sociological point of view
G_7WPVHi1CE-00284-00068783-00069023 algorithms are allocative mechanisms
G_7WPVHi1CE-00285-00069024-00069271 that distribute people and things across
G_7WPVHi1CE-00286-00069272-00069455 various economic
G_7WPVHi1CE-00287-00069456-00069791 social physical and temporal spaces in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00288-00069792-00070119 the context of scarce resources
G_7WPVHi1CE-00289-00070120-00070399 to manage this allocative process we
G_7WPVHi1CE-00290-00070400-00070631 have institutionalized the sorting and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00291-00070632-00070799 slotting of people
G_7WPVHi1CE-00292-00070800-00071062 into categories of deservingness
G_7WPVHi1CE-00293-00071063-00071311 risk desirability
G_7WPVHi1CE-00294-00071312-00071503 and likeness
G_7WPVHi1CE-00295-00071504-00071743 perhaps this is where the heart of our
G_7WPVHi1CE-00296-00071744-00072023 problematic politics of algorithms lies
G_7WPVHi1CE-00297-00072024-00072215 in the first place
G_7WPVHi1CE-00298-00072216-00072415 in fact it may be in our lack of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00299-00072416-00072631 solidarity with each other
G_7WPVHi1CE-00300-00072632-00072871 our absence of generosity with the most
G_7WPVHi1CE-00301-00072872-00073223 vulnerable all of that makes the need to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00302-00073224-00073479 differentiate and to allocate so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00303-00073480-00073711 essential to the functioning of our
G_7WPVHi1CE-00304-00073712-00073935 basic social institution and of course
G_7WPVHi1CE-00305-00073936-00074231 i'm thinking especially in this country
G_7WPVHi1CE-00306-00074232-00074662 where you know we do uh differentiate so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00307-00074663-00074782 much right so i'm thinking about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00308-00074783-00074991 healthcare various forms of social
G_7WPVHi1CE-00309-00074992-00075191 insurance and so on
G_7WPVHi1CE-00310-00075192-00075503 perhaps what we need more than anything
G_7WPVHi1CE-00311-00075504-00075775 is a real socialization of risks and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00312-00075776-00076015 benefits so that people do not face the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00313-00076016-00076199 algorithm alone
G_7WPVHi1CE-00314-00076200-00076462 or do not face the algorithm at all
G_7WPVHi1CE-00315-00076463-00076662 to core
G_7WPVHi1CE-00316-00076663-00076894 perhaps if we built more universal and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00317-00076895-00077079 supportive social institutions we would
G_7WPVHi1CE-00318-00077080-00077262 lessen the need for algorithms
G_7WPVHi1CE-00319-00077263-00077391 altogether
G_7WPVHi1CE-00320-00077392-00077526 and with it
G_7WPVHi1CE-00321-00077527-00077879 our obsession with social hierarchy and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00322-00077880-00078038 difference
G_7WPVHi1CE-00323-00078039-00078271 so in other words we also get the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00324-00078272-00078511 algorithms because
G_7WPVHi1CE-00325-00078512-00078750 of the society we built
G_7WPVHi1CE-00326-00078751-00079023 facing that perhaps should be a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00327-00079024-00079303 political horizon so i post that as a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00328-00079304-00079511 you know as a provocation for the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00329-00079512-00080023 conversation that is to follow
G_7WPVHi1CE-00330-00080024-00080135 wonderful
G_7WPVHi1CE-00331-00080136-00080399 thank you marianne
G_7WPVHi1CE-00332-00080400-00080679 kate would you like to respond now or
G_7WPVHi1CE-00333-00080680-00080775 hold
G_7WPVHi1CE-00334-00080776-00081055 hold up until we hear from everyone
G_7WPVHi1CE-00335-00081056-00081255 i'm happy to hold yeah that would be
G_7WPVHi1CE-00336-00081256-00081519 great okay great okay so trevor if you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00337-00081520-00081615 would
G_7WPVHi1CE-00338-00081616-00081911 you can do you wish to share your screen
G_7WPVHi1CE-00339-00081912-00082206 i'll share it in a in a moment um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00340-00082207-00082415 so i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00341-00082416-00082518 want to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00342-00082519-00082767 thank the other panelists um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00343-00082768-00083087 sonia who is a new friend who we were
G_7WPVHi1CE-00344-00083088-00083215 able to meet in person for the first
G_7WPVHi1CE-00345-00083216-00083455 time a few months ago and mary and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00346-00083456-00083735 hopefully a future friend and and of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00347-00083736-00084006 course can a very old friend and mentor
G_7WPVHi1CE-00348-00084007-00084287 from uh for for a long time when i was
G_7WPVHi1CE-00349-00084288-00084606 at berkeley um who continues to be
G_7WPVHi1CE-00350-00084607-00084815 incredibly inspiring to me
G_7WPVHi1CE-00351-00084816-00084911 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00352-00084912-00085055 most of all of course i want to thank
G_7WPVHi1CE-00353-00085056-00085255 you kate for the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00354-00085256-00085503 really fantastic and illuminating talk
G_7WPVHi1CE-00355-00085504-00085718 yesterday and i think we can all
G_7WPVHi1CE-00356-00085719-00085799 see
G_7WPVHi1CE-00357-00085800-00086023 why kate is one of the most important
G_7WPVHi1CE-00358-00086024-00086199 voices out there thinking critically
G_7WPVHi1CE-00359-00086200-00086471 about technical systems and is doing a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00360-00086472-00086638 massive service
G_7WPVHi1CE-00361-00086639-00086799 to the field by
G_7WPVHi1CE-00362-00086800-00087006 excavating some of these blind spots
G_7WPVHi1CE-00363-00087007-00087231 hidden assumptions unimagined forms of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00364-00087232-00087503 ideology that are often built into what
G_7WPVHi1CE-00365-00087504-00087591 are
G_7WPVHi1CE-00366-00087592-00087831 sometimes conceived of as simply
G_7WPVHi1CE-00367-00087832-00088294 mathematical or apolitical machines
G_7WPVHi1CE-00368-00088295-00088511 and uh i'm gonna tell a bunch of stories
G_7WPVHi1CE-00369-00088512-00088791 basically but i'll start with a story
G_7WPVHi1CE-00370-00088792-00088982 um about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00371-00088983-00089231 five years ago a big tech company
G_7WPVHi1CE-00372-00089232-00089559 facebook um called me up and they asked
G_7WPVHi1CE-00373-00089560-00089847 me to come and talk to their art and ai
G_7WPVHi1CE-00374-00089848-00089999 group and i thought
G_7WPVHi1CE-00375-00090000-00090182 we're not sure go see what those guys
G_7WPVHi1CE-00376-00090183-00090294 are up to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00377-00090295-00090487 and went on there and we're all sitting
G_7WPVHi1CE-00378-00090488-00090647 around and they started
G_7WPVHi1CE-00379-00090648-00090855 showing me a demo of a system they were
G_7WPVHi1CE-00380-00090856-00090982 working on that that was going to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00381-00090983-00091238 generate what they called art
G_7WPVHi1CE-00382-00091239-00091526 and they explained to me that art was
G_7WPVHi1CE-00383-00091527-00091735 partly built on tradition and partly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00384-00091736-00091943 built on creativity
G_7WPVHi1CE-00385-00091944-00092167 and they thought well how do we simulate
G_7WPVHi1CE-00386-00092168-00092326 that so what they had done was they
G_7WPVHi1CE-00387-00092327-00092511 built data sets of artworks and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00388-00092512-00092687 organized them into categories like
G_7WPVHi1CE-00389-00092688-00093023 cubism abstract expressionism pop art
G_7WPVHi1CE-00390-00093024-00093167 and that they explained to me that was
G_7WPVHi1CE-00391-00093168-00093415 the tradition part and then they were
G_7WPVHi1CE-00392-00093416-00093631 introducing randomness into the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00393-00093632-00093774 generator that they were building and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00394-00093775-00093918 they said well randomness that's well
G_7WPVHi1CE-00395-00093919-00094238 that's a proxy for creativity here um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00396-00094239-00094662 needless to say my jaw was on the floor
G_7WPVHi1CE-00397-00094663-00094911 you know but um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00398-00094912-00095159 not only for the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00399-00095160-00095391 inanity of the assumptions that were
G_7WPVHi1CE-00400-00095392-00095671 built into this project but
G_7WPVHi1CE-00401-00095672-00096031 by the hubris in the room quite honestly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00402-00096032-00096118 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00403-00096119-00096326 i think i was led out the door when i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00404-00096327-00096582 just kind of said you guys know that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00405-00096583-00096847 cubism isn't real right there's no such
G_7WPVHi1CE-00406-00096848-00097111 thing as cubism
G_7WPVHi1CE-00407-00097112-00097287 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00408-00097288-00097518 so that leads to this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00409-00097519-00097703 kind of a little bit of a deeper dive
G_7WPVHi1CE-00410-00097704-00097871 that i wanted that i want to go into
G_7WPVHi1CE-00411-00097872-00098143 about a small comment that kate made in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00412-00098144-00098335 her talk when she showed a slide
G_7WPVHi1CE-00413-00098336-00098655 yesterday of the apple category in in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00414-00098656-00098862 imagenet and kate said classifying
G_7WPVHi1CE-00415-00098863-00099111 apples not be particularly controversial
G_7WPVHi1CE-00416-00099112-00099303 she had a caveat saying that this was
G_7WPVHi1CE-00417-00099304-00099518 actually much more complicated and i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00418-00099519-00099687 know that kate does not think that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00419-00099688-00099887 classifying apples is uncomplicated
G_7WPVHi1CE-00420-00099888-00100087 because we have been talking about it
G_7WPVHi1CE-00421-00100088-00100263 non-stop for several years
G_7WPVHi1CE-00422-00100264-00100471 [Laughter]
G_7WPVHi1CE-00423-00100472-00100550 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00424-00100551-00100882 so i want to just talk a little bit
G_7WPVHi1CE-00425-00100883-00101287 about about them apples um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00426-00101288-00101526 so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00427-00101527-00101687 how about them
G_7WPVHi1CE-00428-00101688-00101831 apples
G_7WPVHi1CE-00429-00101832-00101991 um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00430-00101992-00102287 so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00431-00102288-00102663 if we include something like apples
G_7WPVHi1CE-00432-00102664-00102927 in the training set for computer vision
G_7WPVHi1CE-00433-00102928-00103239 we make a few assumptions
G_7WPVHi1CE-00434-00103240-00103518 one we make the assumption that pictures
G_7WPVHi1CE-00435-00103519-00103758 point to the things that they represent
G_7WPVHi1CE-00436-00103759-00103942 we make another assumption that the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00437-00103943-00104110 things that they point to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00438-00104111-00104215 actually
G_7WPVHi1CE-00439-00104216-00104358 exist
G_7WPVHi1CE-00440-00104359-00104606 and in the past i've referred to this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00441-00104607-00104839 set of assumptions in computer vision as
G_7WPVHi1CE-00442-00104840-00105166 a kind of machine realism
G_7WPVHi1CE-00443-00105167-00105254 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00444-00105255-00105495 i think that both of these assumptions
G_7WPVHi1CE-00445-00105496-00105758 are in fact incorrect
G_7WPVHi1CE-00446-00105759-00105983 on the question of meaning pictures of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00447-00105983-00106119 apples
G_7WPVHi1CE-00448-00106120-00106343 uh historically and currently rarely
G_7WPVHi1CE-00449-00106344-00106543 concept you know rarely signify the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00450-00106544-00106790 concept of or reality of apples
G_7WPVHi1CE-00451-00106791-00106958 historically they've signified things
G_7WPVHi1CE-00452-00106959-00107319 like health abundance sin death
G_7WPVHi1CE-00453-00107320-00107575 knowledge love and so on and so on often
G_7WPVHi1CE-00454-00107576-00107790 as you can see contradictory things and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00455-00107791-00108054 those meanings are constantly changing
G_7WPVHi1CE-00456-00108055-00108263 now there's this other assumption about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00457-00108264-00108383 essence
G_7WPVHi1CE-00458-00108383-00108623 that there is an apple and of course
G_7WPVHi1CE-00459-00108624-00108983 this is also an incorrect assumption um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00460-00108983-00109063 if you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00461-00109064-00109151 when i'm
G_7WPVHi1CE-00462-00109152-00109351 on the few occasions that i've been able
G_7WPVHi1CE-00463-00109352-00109486 to spend some time with biologists i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00464-00109488-00109702 always like to ask the question of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00465-00109703-00109839 of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00466-00109840-00110143 do species exist and then they
G_7WPVHi1CE-00467-00110144-00110390 get into this big conversation they hem
G_7WPVHi1CE-00468-00110391-00110590 and they haunt say well
G_7WPVHi1CE-00469-00110591-00110854 kind of not really you know it's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00470-00110855-00111063 complicated is the answer and that's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00471-00111064-00111343 right um because of course it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00472-00111344-00111639 complicated we know this from darwin of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00473-00111640-00111871 course which is that the living world is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00474-00111872-00112095 one of variation and it's one of change
G_7WPVHi1CE-00475-00112096-00112327 that there's no ideal types of animals
G_7WPVHi1CE-00476-00112328-00112566 or plants or any life forms everything
G_7WPVHi1CE-00477-00112567-00112823 is a mutant everything is changing all
G_7WPVHi1CE-00478-00112824-00113039 the time
G_7WPVHi1CE-00479-00113040-00113423 and so this brings us to the question of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00480-00113424-00113543 whether
G_7WPVHi1CE-00481-00113544-00113751 given these conditions
G_7WPVHi1CE-00482-00113752-00113871 is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00483-00113872-00113990 anything
G_7WPVHi1CE-00484-00113991-00114190 really imageable
G_7WPVHi1CE-00485-00114191-00114502 in a quantitative context
G_7WPVHi1CE-00486-00114503-00114599 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00487-00114600-00114775 when i started thinking about this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00488-00114776-00114990 question i started thinking about you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00489-00114991-00115143 know i also have training as a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00490-00115144-00115271 geographer and i was thinking a lot
G_7WPVHi1CE-00491-00115272-00115447 about what was called the quantitative
G_7WPVHi1CE-00492-00115448-00115695 revolution in geography and this was a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00493-00115696-00115854 kind of crisis that happened in the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00494-00115855-00116134 1950s and 60s and before that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00495-00116135-00116263 geographers would go out and you would
G_7WPVHi1CE-00496-00116264-00116599 describe a place and it was considered a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00497-00116600-00116886 practice of description and they all got
G_7WPVHi1CE-00498-00116888-00117102 really you know self-hating in the 50s
G_7WPVHi1CE-00499-00117103-00117247 and 60s they felt like they're not
G_7WPVHi1CE-00500-00117248-00117495 sciency enough and so they started using
G_7WPVHi1CE-00501-00117496-00117695 all kinds of numbers and equations and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00502-00117696-00117886 statistics and they wanted like science
G_7WPVHi1CE-00503-00117888-00118054 up the field
G_7WPVHi1CE-00504-00118055-00118295 and my phd advisor at berkeley was a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00505-00118296-00118534 really wonderful fantastic man named
G_7WPVHi1CE-00506-00118535-00118799 alan pred and he had he'd begun his
G_7WPVHi1CE-00507-00118800-00119039 career doing this quantified geography
G_7WPVHi1CE-00508-00119040-00119286 stuff and he'd even won geography's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00509-00119288-00119471 version of the nobel prize for
G_7WPVHi1CE-00510-00119472-00119743 quantitative work on cities but later in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00511-00119744-00119966 his life he renounced all of his earlier
G_7WPVHi1CE-00512-00119967-00120158 work he said it was all and he
G_7WPVHi1CE-00513-00120159-00120302 started writing these weird books that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00514-00120303-00120566 were montages of stories and images that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00515-00120567-00120743 were really inspired by walter
G_7WPVHi1CE-00516-00120744-00120934 benjamin's accounts of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00517-00120935-00121127 paris
G_7WPVHi1CE-00518-00121128-00121343 there was a funny moment in my phd where
G_7WPVHi1CE-00519-00121344-00121614 i had finished my coursework i had was
G_7WPVHi1CE-00520-00121615-00121854 preparing for my exams and i realized i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00521-00121855-00122223 had done zero training in methodology at
G_7WPVHi1CE-00522-00122224-00122414 all and i went into his office in a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00523-00122415-00122686 panic and i was like dude alan i've been
G_7WPVHi1CE-00524-00122688-00122831 taking how many classes here for how
G_7WPVHi1CE-00525-00122832-00122943 many years
G_7WPVHi1CE-00526-00122944-00123223 i realized there's this huge hole in my
G_7WPVHi1CE-00527-00123224-00123334 training we have not done any
G_7WPVHi1CE-00528-00123335-00123454 methodology
G_7WPVHi1CE-00529-00123455-00123623 and he basically looked at me he's like
G_7WPVHi1CE-00530-00123624-00123839 fantastic you know my plan is coming
G_7WPVHi1CE-00531-00123840-00124054 together and i was like what are you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00532-00124055-00124286 talking about and he said you know he's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00533-00124288-00124414 like i know all about methodologies
G_7WPVHi1CE-00534-00124415-00124519 there's all these cookie cutter
G_7WPVHi1CE-00535-00124520-00124678 methodologies you can use them and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00536-00124679-00124895 they're mostly recipes for
G_7WPVHi1CE-00537-00124896-00124990 because
G_7WPVHi1CE-00538-00124991-00125223 he said what methodologies have he said
G_7WPVHi1CE-00539-00125224-00125390 you they have to arise from the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00540-00125391-00125551 materials that you're looking at he's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00541-00125552-00125734 like look at your things look at it
G_7WPVHi1CE-00542-00125735-00125910 again look at it over and over and over
G_7WPVHi1CE-00543-00125911-00126207 and it will gradually just tell you how
G_7WPVHi1CE-00544-00126208-00126366 it wants to be studied for lack of a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00545-00126367-00126486 better word
G_7WPVHi1CE-00546-00126488-00126663 and that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00547-00126664-00126766 kind of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00548-00126767-00126975 always the way that that that i've
G_7WPVHi1CE-00549-00126976-00127207 worked i guess and this obviously this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00550-00127208-00127495 method has very much inspired the i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00551-00127496-00127686 guess lack of a better word methodology
G_7WPVHi1CE-00552-00127688-00127847 than me and kate have been trying to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00553-00127848-00128086 develop over several years of excavating
G_7WPVHi1CE-00554-00128088-00128519 these kinds of training data
G_7WPVHi1CE-00555-00128520-00128766 this brings us back to this question of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00556-00128767-00128966 apples this question of training data
G_7WPVHi1CE-00557-00128967-00129254 and computer vision in particular
G_7WPVHi1CE-00558-00129255-00129495 and you know i've really spent years
G_7WPVHi1CE-00559-00129496-00129734 racking my brain about these apples and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00560-00129735-00130063 have tried to imagine in what situations
G_7WPVHi1CE-00561-00130064-00130214 this kind of computer vision
G_7WPVHi1CE-00562-00130215-00130463 classification could be useful
G_7WPVHi1CE-00563-00130464-00130599 and the best answer that i've really
G_7WPVHi1CE-00564-00130600-00130878 been able to come up with is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00565-00130879-00131078 quality assurance in industrial
G_7WPVHi1CE-00566-00131079-00131327 agriculture right so you try to build
G_7WPVHi1CE-00567-00131328-00131511 systems that automate the selection of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00568-00131512-00131711 apples according to whatever criteria
G_7WPVHi1CE-00569-00131712-00131959 that you want them to have this is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00570-00131960-00132102 something you would be do at a huge
G_7WPVHi1CE-00571-00132103-00132271 industrial scale this is not something
G_7WPVHi1CE-00572-00132272-00132502 that they would do at the farmers market
G_7WPVHi1CE-00573-00132503-00132663 for example
G_7WPVHi1CE-00574-00132664-00132790 and so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00575-00132791-00133083 the point that i'm getting at is that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00576-00133084-00133271 maybe
G_7WPVHi1CE-00577-00133272-00133631 the economic and industrial contexts
G_7WPVHi1CE-00578-00133632-00133902 determine what is sensible within the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00579-00133903-00134143 system and this leads us to a pretty
G_7WPVHi1CE-00580-00134144-00134439 remarkable conclusion or at least an
G_7WPVHi1CE-00581-00134440-00134639 idea which is that there's a kind of a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00582-00134640-00134814 political economy
G_7WPVHi1CE-00583-00134815-00135102 of meaning making going on here that the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00584-00135103-00135366 question of what a picture means is a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00585-00135367-00135623 function of the industrial context that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00586-00135624-00135759 it's in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00587-00135760-00135943 now there's some precedence for this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00588-00135944-00136175 idea um most notably the work of the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00589-00136176-00136390 former berkeley art historian michael
G_7WPVHi1CE-00590-00136391-00136590 baxandall who came to a similar
G_7WPVHi1CE-00591-00136591-00136814 conclusion in this survey of italian
G_7WPVHi1CE-00592-00136815-00137039 renaissance painting i want to give a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00593-00137040-00137295 shout out to leonardo impet for making
G_7WPVHi1CE-00594-00137296-00137527 this connection to box and all's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00595-00137528-00137751 philosophy of art
G_7WPVHi1CE-00596-00137752-00137975 so i think this provides us with an
G_7WPVHi1CE-00597-00137976-00138231 opportunity to add another category to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00598-00138232-00138527 kate's taxonomies of the unstable ground
G_7WPVHi1CE-00599-00138528-00138759 truths on which much machine learning is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00600-00138760-00139014 built we can add a category like the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00601-00139015-00139263 economic ground where we think about the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00602-00139264-00139454 political economic and industrial
G_7WPVHi1CE-00603-00139455-00139719 conditions that encourage certain forms
G_7WPVHi1CE-00604-00139720-00139966 of data and meaning making and strongly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00605-00139967-00140151 discourage others
G_7WPVHi1CE-00606-00140152-00140375 and i want to conclude by seconding
G_7WPVHi1CE-00607-00140376-00140519 kate's uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-00608-00140520-00140702 conclusion in her talk yesterday where
G_7WPVHi1CE-00609-00140703-00140975 she called for bringing new kinds of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00610-00140976-00141214 imagination to the field she called for
G_7WPVHi1CE-00611-00141215-00141511 us to step back as far as we can
G_7WPVHi1CE-00612-00141512-00141766 question as many of our assumptions as
G_7WPVHi1CE-00613-00141767-00142014 we can and think big and to think truly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00614-00142015-00142302 big about what we want the world to look
G_7WPVHi1CE-00615-00142303-00142590 like because the tools that we create
G_7WPVHi1CE-00616-00142591-00143014 will of course make that world
G_7WPVHi1CE-00617-00143015-00143231 and i think that there is another side
G_7WPVHi1CE-00618-00143232-00143454 to that call for imagination as well
G_7WPVHi1CE-00619-00143455-00143678 which is something about a call for
G_7WPVHi1CE-00620-00143679-00143990 humility a kind of a humility in the in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00621-00143991-00144166 the culture of machine learning a sense
G_7WPVHi1CE-00622-00144167-00144359 that maybe machine learning isn't the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00623-00144360-00144583 solution to every problem and that maybe
G_7WPVHi1CE-00624-00144584-00144743 it's not even a solution to very many
G_7WPVHi1CE-00625-00144744-00144935 problems at all and that maybe we
G_7WPVHi1CE-00626-00144936-00145126 shouldn't be too confident in our own
G_7WPVHi1CE-00627-00145127-00145511 abilities to make those judgments
G_7WPVHi1CE-00628-00145512-00145814 thank you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00629-00145815-00145951 you trevor
G_7WPVHi1CE-00630-00145952-00146166 thank you very much and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00631-00146167-00146439 i can't resist uh her your sighting of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00632-00146440-00146887 the apple as a as a as an exemplar
G_7WPVHi1CE-00633-00146888-00147214 of course there's the the i the apple on
G_7WPVHi1CE-00634-00147215-00147326 my
G_7WPVHi1CE-00635-00147327-00147543 on my table right here that we're all
G_7WPVHi1CE-00636-00147544-00147711 taking a bite out of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00637-00147712-00147975 every day and it's implications right as
G_7WPVHi1CE-00638-00147976-00148287 as a as an icon of of western computing
G_7WPVHi1CE-00639-00148288-00148478 and technology and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00640-00148479-00148695 still lasts pretty well in regard to its
G_7WPVHi1CE-00641-00148696-00148895 original choice with regard to adam and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00642-00148896-00148983 eve
G_7WPVHi1CE-00643-00148984-00149390 okay um sonia please um we welcome your
G_7WPVHi1CE-00644-00149391-00149631 your input on this great uh thanks so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00645-00149632-00149895 much um it's just such a pleasure
G_7WPVHi1CE-00646-00149896-00150143 to be here and um i'm just so happy to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00647-00150144-00150383 be uh sharing the space with um so many
G_7WPVHi1CE-00648-00150384-00150695 people whose work i admire so much um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00649-00150696-00150887 i i guess though i want to return to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00650-00150888-00151078 something that jennifer chase said
G_7WPVHi1CE-00651-00151079-00151271 yesterday uh in response to your talk
G_7WPVHi1CE-00652-00151272-00151431 which i just thought was really
G_7WPVHi1CE-00653-00151432-00151647 insightful which is your talk which was
G_7WPVHi1CE-00654-00151648-00151783 so wonderful and brilliant and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00655-00151784-00151990 insightful just was really literally
G_7WPVHi1CE-00656-00151991-00152135 like the best
G_7WPVHi1CE-00657-00152136-00152359 argument for why
G_7WPVHi1CE-00658-00152360-00152599 uh sort of institutions of higher
G_7WPVHi1CE-00659-00152600-00152823 education need to think about how to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00660-00152824-00153143 integrate notions of society questions
G_7WPVHi1CE-00661-00153144-00153431 of social construction with ideas of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00662-00153432-00153639 data science and um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00663-00153640-00153863 and the way that you have done that in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00664-00153864-00154023 terms of your own book and the mapping
G_7WPVHi1CE-00665-00154024-00154287 of that is just it's it's just exemplary
G_7WPVHi1CE-00666-00154288-00154590 it's remarkable um and it gives us all
G_7WPVHi1CE-00667-00154591-00154814 a bunch of different maps right uh in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00668-00154815-00155007 terms of thinking about how to use those
G_7WPVHi1CE-00669-00155008-00155223 tools and thinking about ai
G_7WPVHi1CE-00670-00155224-00155407 um i think that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00671-00155408-00155735 the the value um to me of your talk was
G_7WPVHi1CE-00672-00155736-00156023 just uh in the range right like so i've
G_7WPVHi1CE-00673-00156024-00156175 been thinking about social construction
G_7WPVHi1CE-00674-00156176-00156326 for a long time but the way that you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00675-00156327-00156607 applied it to data data science the way
G_7WPVHi1CE-00676-00156608-00156766 that you applied it to questions of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00677-00156767-00157039 materiality was just so incredibly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00678-00157040-00157183 powerful um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00679-00157184-00157375 but i found myself kind of coming back
G_7WPVHi1CE-00680-00157376-00157751 to a place that uh is is familiar to me
G_7WPVHi1CE-00681-00157752-00157951 and and the place that i come to which
G_7WPVHi1CE-00682-00157952-00158239 is familiar uh is kind of what do we
G_7WPVHi1CE-00683-00158240-00158366 what do we do
G_7WPVHi1CE-00684-00158367-00158647 knowing uh the kinds of things that we
G_7WPVHi1CE-00685-00158648-00158895 now know about the notion of ground
G_7WPVHi1CE-00686-00158896-00159126 truth what do we do after that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00687-00159127-00159439 excavation um and so i really was struck
G_7WPVHi1CE-00688-00159440-00159654 i definitely you know i'm sure that you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00689-00159655-00159951 have many uh responses to to both marion
G_7WPVHi1CE-00690-00159952-00160159 and trevor but i would love to hear
G_7WPVHi1CE-00691-00160160-00160502 about um a little bit more about the the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00692-00160503-00160639 point that you ended on which is the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00693-00160640-00160919 notion of uh material ethics um and the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00694-00160920-00161351 idea that we can use uh you know larger
G_7WPVHi1CE-00695-00161352-00161511 conversations about ethics and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00696-00161512-00161726 responsibility and social responsibility
G_7WPVHi1CE-00697-00161727-00161959 and integrate them um into questioning
G_7WPVHi1CE-00698-00161960-00162159 the assumptions of ai as trevor points
G_7WPVHi1CE-00699-00162160-00162247 out
G_7WPVHi1CE-00700-00162248-00162423 um and i guess
G_7WPVHi1CE-00701-00162424-00162647 the question that i sort of am left with
G_7WPVHi1CE-00702-00162648-00162902 right is uh i i want to be an optimist
G_7WPVHi1CE-00703-00162903-00163039 i'm i'm a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00704-00163040-00163359 i'm i'm like a die-hard optimist um i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00705-00163360-00163559 think the things that we see in the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00706-00163560-00163854 world um and the way in which you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-00707-00163855-00164119 so many people and so many scholars have
G_7WPVHi1CE-00708-00164120-00164375 kind of elucidated for us how social
G_7WPVHi1CE-00709-00164376-00164654 construction has operated and now your
G_7WPVHi1CE-00710-00164655-00164878 talk presents us with the idea of social
G_7WPVHi1CE-00711-00164879-00165126 construction operating on a grand
G_7WPVHi1CE-00712-00165127-00165438 massive industrial infrastructural level
G_7WPVHi1CE-00713-00165439-00165678 um in terms of the products that go from
G_7WPVHi1CE-00714-00165679-00165847 the social that are developed from the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00715-00165848-00166071 social construction of ai and so i guess
G_7WPVHi1CE-00716-00166072-00166238 i just really wanted to open up a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00717-00166239-00166519 conversation first about the idea of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00718-00166520-00166726 ethics and how we can think about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00719-00166727-00166990 integrating the idea of ethics into into
G_7WPVHi1CE-00720-00166991-00167207 ai if it's even possible or whether the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00721-00167208-00167431 solution is this um you know marianne
G_7WPVHi1CE-00722-00167432-00167631 had talked about you know do we abandon
G_7WPVHi1CE-00723-00167632-00167847 it entirely what do we do um and the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00724-00167848-00167983 other thing that i just really am
G_7WPVHi1CE-00725-00167984-00168247 thinking about is um particularly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00726-00168248-00168431 because trevor you know i'm a huge fan
G_7WPVHi1CE-00727-00168432-00168575 of your work and i've followed your work
G_7WPVHi1CE-00728-00168576-00168823 for years i think that there really is a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00729-00168824-00169102 very powerful role for um you know the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00730-00169103-00169326 title of this of this panel art and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00731-00169327-00169599 activism here in terms of both
G_7WPVHi1CE-00732-00169600-00169854 obfuscating some of the issues that ai
G_7WPVHi1CE-00733-00169855-00169959 creates
G_7WPVHi1CE-00734-00169960-00170166 but also educating the public in ways
G_7WPVHi1CE-00735-00170167-00170366 that i think are really important to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00736-00170367-00170607 reach the public those of us that are in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00737-00170608-00170919 versed in law policy sociology we've
G_7WPVHi1CE-00738-00170920-00171143 been thinking about social construction
G_7WPVHi1CE-00739-00171144-00171438 for a long time but i think that when
G_7WPVHi1CE-00740-00171439-00171631 you're with the work that you've done
G_7WPVHi1CE-00741-00171632-00171863 with trevor when you see it on such a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00742-00171864-00172102 direct level it really does kind of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00743-00172103-00172407 raise the possibility of kind of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00744-00172408-00172599 thinking about different ways to educate
G_7WPVHi1CE-00745-00172600-00172863 the public more deeply and more visually
G_7WPVHi1CE-00746-00172864-00173319 about the risks and the dangers of of ai
G_7WPVHi1CE-00747-00173320-00173543 so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00748-00173544-00173695 excellent can i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00749-00173696-00174054 can i add a little bit since sonia did
G_7WPVHi1CE-00750-00174055-00174190 mention
G_7WPVHi1CE-00751-00174191-00174702 what i had said yesterday uh i really um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00752-00174703-00175078 you know we are thinking about educating
G_7WPVHi1CE-00753-00175079-00175254 tens of thousands of students at
G_7WPVHi1CE-00754-00175255-00175454 berkeley but
G_7WPVHi1CE-00755-00175455-00175623 many more than that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00756-00175624-00175807 across the world
G_7WPVHi1CE-00757-00175808-00175935 as we
G_7WPVHi1CE-00758-00175936-00176319 bring them these tools as we teach them
G_7WPVHi1CE-00759-00176320-00176647 these tools of data science and ai
G_7WPVHi1CE-00760-00176648-00177054 and we've thought here very deliberately
G_7WPVHi1CE-00761-00177055-00177383 about how we weave
G_7WPVHi1CE-00762-00177384-00177751 ethical considerations into this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00763-00177752-00177883 uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-00764-00177884-00178166 how you know uh there are four
G_7WPVHi1CE-00765-00178167-00178359 components to our data science major
G_7WPVHi1CE-00766-00178360-00178671 computing statistics human context and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00767-00178672-00179014 ethics and a disciplinary emphasis
G_7WPVHi1CE-00768-00179015-00179487 and i believe that as we train people
G_7WPVHi1CE-00769-00179488-00179687 at every point
G_7WPVHi1CE-00770-00179688-00179871 we should be
G_7WPVHi1CE-00771-00179872-00179983 uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-00772-00179984-00180183 almost as if uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-00773-00180184-00180326 teaching them how to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00774-00180327-00180671 ethically hack what they are building
G_7WPVHi1CE-00775-00180672-00180759 right
G_7WPVHi1CE-00776-00180760-00181054 what are the vulnerabilities that what
G_7WPVHi1CE-00777-00181055-00181271 we are creating
G_7WPVHi1CE-00778-00181272-00181407 leaves
G_7WPVHi1CE-00779-00181408-00181607 how might people
G_7WPVHi1CE-00780-00181608-00181735 exploit
G_7WPVHi1CE-00781-00181736-00181975 those vulnerabilities
G_7WPVHi1CE-00782-00181976-00182423 when we create power we know that people
G_7WPVHi1CE-00783-00182424-00182695 will try to usurp
G_7WPVHi1CE-00784-00182696-00182863 that power
G_7WPVHi1CE-00785-00182864-00183054 and so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00786-00183055-00183135 in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00787-00183136-00183390 all that i have heard yesterday and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00788-00183391-00183847 today about the non-absolutism
G_7WPVHi1CE-00789-00183848-00184078 of ground truth
G_7WPVHi1CE-00790-00184079-00184199 about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00791-00184200-00184311 the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00792-00184312-00184463 way in which
G_7WPVHi1CE-00793-00184464-00184871 we approach these societal issues what
G_7WPVHi1CE-00794-00184872-00185238 are the legal frameworks what are the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00795-00185239-00185423 normative frameworks the moral
G_7WPVHi1CE-00796-00185424-00185687 frameworks the artistic frameworks
G_7WPVHi1CE-00797-00185688-00185871 around this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00798-00185872-00186111 i would love to hear from you kate and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00799-00186112-00186390 you and i have you know worked together
G_7WPVHi1CE-00800-00186391-00186631 for a dozen years worked in each other's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00801-00186632-00186878 orbits for a dozen years
G_7WPVHi1CE-00802-00186879-00187102 how you might
G_7WPVHi1CE-00803-00187103-00187214 choose
G_7WPVHi1CE-00804-00187215-00187350 to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00805-00187351-00187526 educate
G_7WPVHi1CE-00806-00187527-00187854 students who are entering college
G_7WPVHi1CE-00807-00187855-00188143 who are embarking on
G_7WPVHi1CE-00808-00188144-00188383 learning some of this how to teach them
G_7WPVHi1CE-00809-00188384-00188663 how to be better members of a civil
G_7WPVHi1CE-00810-00188664-00189031 society that is permeated
G_7WPVHi1CE-00811-00189032-00189166 with
G_7WPVHi1CE-00812-00189167-00189399 ai
G_7WPVHi1CE-00813-00189400-00189599 great thank you jennifer so actually
G_7WPVHi1CE-00814-00189600-00189790 that's a perfect setup if you would kate
G_7WPVHi1CE-00815-00189791-00189990 maybe we you can take that question
G_7WPVHi1CE-00816-00189991-00190247 first and take these in reverse order
G_7WPVHi1CE-00817-00190248-00190407 because that's very much connected with
G_7WPVHi1CE-00818-00190408-00190711 sonia's question so kate
G_7WPVHi1CE-00819-00190712-00190943 thank you so much ken i want to begin by
G_7WPVHi1CE-00820-00190944-00191095 just expressing
G_7WPVHi1CE-00821-00191096-00191319 enormous gratitude to the panelists
G_7WPVHi1CE-00822-00191320-00191478 today one of the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00823-00191479-00191750 extraordinary gifts of presenting a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00824-00191751-00191999 tanner lecture is that you also get to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00825-00192000-00192278 suggest the people who have inspired you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00826-00192279-00192478 and whose work um has been such an
G_7WPVHi1CE-00827-00192479-00192678 influence so this this really is the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00828-00192679-00192975 group of people who um i am enormous
G_7WPVHi1CE-00829-00192976-00193143 debt to in terms of the work that you've
G_7WPVHi1CE-00830-00193144-00193311 done and what you've given the world
G_7WPVHi1CE-00831-00193312-00193543 that you're all inspirations to me
G_7WPVHi1CE-00832-00193544-00193766 intellectually artistically
G_7WPVHi1CE-00833-00193767-00193847 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00834-00193848-00194143 creatively uh it's it's an extraordinary
G_7WPVHi1CE-00835-00194144-00194335 group so i want to start there and i
G_7WPVHi1CE-00836-00194336-00194678 also want to just riff gently on uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-00837-00194679-00194950 trevor's provocation to the machine
G_7WPVHi1CE-00838-00194951-00195159 learning world to ground itself in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00839-00195160-00195343 humility i think this is also an
G_7WPVHi1CE-00840-00195344-00195566 experience for me of of being deeply
G_7WPVHi1CE-00841-00195567-00195719 humbled because of the just
G_7WPVHi1CE-00842-00195720-00195950 extraordinary things that you've said
G_7WPVHi1CE-00843-00195951-00196135 and contributions and critiques and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00844-00196136-00196423 expansions of these ideas which are just
G_7WPVHi1CE-00845-00196424-00196799 so generative so let's start there
G_7WPVHi1CE-00846-00196800-00197038 my tendency is because of the way the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00847-00197039-00197247 questions have been ordered um is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00848-00197248-00197599 actually to invert if i make and um to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00849-00197600-00197750 start with marion and actually end with
G_7WPVHi1CE-00850-00197751-00197902 jennifer's questions because i feel like
G_7WPVHi1CE-00851-00197903-00198054 in some ways they they actually follow
G_7WPVHi1CE-00852-00198055-00198231 from each other and complicate each
G_7WPVHi1CE-00853-00198232-00198478 other because there are no easy answers
G_7WPVHi1CE-00854-00198479-00198631 here and and particularly ending on
G_7WPVHi1CE-00855-00198632-00198919 pedagogy i think will help us see why
G_7WPVHi1CE-00856-00198920-00199166 these complications also are important
G_7WPVHi1CE-00857-00199167-00199343 to how we think about educating in this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00858-00199344-00199438 space
G_7WPVHi1CE-00859-00199439-00199695 so i want to begin with marian's just
G_7WPVHi1CE-00860-00199696-00200023 spectacular provocation around this idea
G_7WPVHi1CE-00861-00200024-00200311 of you know have we gained nothing from
G_7WPVHi1CE-00862-00200312-00200559 this sort of expansion of algorithmic
G_7WPVHi1CE-00863-00200560-00200831 logics and conveniences into our lives
G_7WPVHi1CE-00864-00200832-00201095 and our institutions and our publics
G_7WPVHi1CE-00865-00201096-00201238 and i think the first response i would
G_7WPVHi1CE-00866-00201239-00201399 have to say there is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00867-00201400-00201614 who is we you know who is the we who
G_7WPVHi1CE-00868-00201615-00201854 gains because i think that immediately
G_7WPVHi1CE-00869-00201855-00202135 reveals that so many of these systems
G_7WPVHi1CE-00870-00202136-00202478 have given so much um depending on your
G_7WPVHi1CE-00871-00202479-00202750 positionality your access to privilege
G_7WPVHi1CE-00872-00202751-00202863 and your
G_7WPVHi1CE-00873-00202864-00203031 access to other forms of material
G_7WPVHi1CE-00874-00203032-00203223 benefits and and this is where your work
G_7WPVHi1CE-00875-00203224-00203463 marian has been so extraordinarily
G_7WPVHi1CE-00876-00203464-00203719 important in terms of thinking about the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00877-00203720-00203966 ways in which scoring systems are
G_7WPVHi1CE-00878-00203967-00204247 feeding into particular types of market
G_7WPVHi1CE-00879-00204248-00204447 logics that have
G_7WPVHi1CE-00880-00204448-00204759 radically expanded just in the last 100
G_7WPVHi1CE-00881-00204760-00204846 years
G_7WPVHi1CE-00882-00204848-00205038 and for me i think when i when i think
G_7WPVHi1CE-00883-00205039-00205246 about the way in which your work has
G_7WPVHi1CE-00884-00205248-00205503 pointed to this shifting away
G_7WPVHi1CE-00885-00205504-00205782 of socialized forms of risk so we could
G_7WPVHi1CE-00886-00205783-00205975 think about insurance and the way that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00887-00205976-00206175 we've moved away from this idea of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00888-00206176-00206510 insurance insuring groups of people to a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00889-00206511-00206831 hyper individualized risk profile um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00890-00206832-00207014 that as you say in your work is it's all
G_7WPVHi1CE-00891-00207015-00207134 about you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00892-00207135-00207334 um has these two effects this sort of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00893-00207335-00207671 twin impacts one is that we lose that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00894-00207671-00207879 solidarity in in the face of the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00895-00207880-00208166 algorithm because people have been so so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00896-00208167-00208390 closely monitored that you know how much
G_7WPVHi1CE-00897-00208391-00208598 you exercise and what you eat and what
G_7WPVHi1CE-00898-00208600-00208814 you buy is suddenly reflected back in a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00899-00208815-00209023 social score about you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00900-00209023-00209262 but it has this other terrifying impact
G_7WPVHi1CE-00901-00209263-00209455 which is that it has taken away from
G_7WPVHi1CE-00902-00209456-00209598 that sense of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00903-00209600-00209831 that there are group and structural and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00904-00209832-00210134 historical forms of privilege and risk
G_7WPVHi1CE-00905-00210135-00210398 that are not being modulated by those
G_7WPVHi1CE-00906-00210400-00210703 forms of algorithmic scoring
G_7WPVHi1CE-00907-00210704-00210910 and i think this is also where when we
G_7WPVHi1CE-00908-00210911-00211246 start to look at this question of of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00909-00211248-00211551 of risk that we need to sort of flip the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00910-00211552-00211839 the lens on how we think about ai as a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00911-00211840-00212031 form of capital and and i'm thinking
G_7WPVHi1CE-00912-00212032-00212239 here also of of your work with kieran
G_7WPVHi1CE-00913-00212240-00212494 healey um in thinking about what you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00914-00212496-00212742 called i think very provocatively not
G_7WPVHi1CE-00915-00212744-00213063 just uber capital but eigen capital that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00916-00213064-00213319 we have these ways in which all of these
G_7WPVHi1CE-00917-00213319-00213582 forms of data not just you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-00918-00213583-00213767 what we would understand is within the
G_7WPVHi1CE-00919-00213767-00213934 credit system but everything from who's
G_7WPVHi1CE-00920-00213935-00214151 in our social network to the things that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00921-00214152-00214358 we say online to our instagram photos
G_7WPVHi1CE-00922-00214359-00214575 have become part of this sort of credit
G_7WPVHi1CE-00923-00214576-00214831 modulating system that is constantly
G_7WPVHi1CE-00924-00214832-00215046 shifting and extremely difficult to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00925-00215048-00215127 track
G_7WPVHi1CE-00926-00215128-00215375 so here you know for me that my reverse
G_7WPVHi1CE-00927-00215376-00215623 provocation to you marian would be to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00928-00215623-00215815 think about the ways in which ai
G_7WPVHi1CE-00929-00215816-00216119 operates as capital in in almost two
G_7WPVHi1CE-00930-00216119-00216271 ways i mean i think there's an obvious
G_7WPVHi1CE-00931-00216271-00216639 way in which yes it functions as a a
G_7WPVHi1CE-00932-00216640-00216863 type of uh of capital in the sense that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00933-00216864-00217134 it is a process of circulation um about
G_7WPVHi1CE-00934-00217135-00217375 extracting value but in this other sense
G_7WPVHi1CE-00935-00217376-00217631 that it's also an expansionist mechanism
G_7WPVHi1CE-00936-00217632-00217846 of performing kind of what marx called
G_7WPVHi1CE-00937-00217848-00218103 primitive accumulation or david harvey
G_7WPVHi1CE-00938-00218104-00218279 would call accumulation by dispossession
G_7WPVHi1CE-00939-00218280-00218455 you know this this expansion of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00940-00218456-00218679 algorithms into spaces that capital did
G_7WPVHi1CE-00941-00218680-00218910 not previously have access to this sort
G_7WPVHi1CE-00942-00218911-00219158 of capture of the commons and i think
G_7WPVHi1CE-00943-00219159-00219358 there we have to ask you to
G_7WPVHi1CE-00944-00219359-00219591 we have actually lost rather than gained
G_7WPVHi1CE-00945-00219592-00219775 because the last things that were seen
G_7WPVHi1CE-00946-00219776-00220087 as as public commons um have have
G_7WPVHi1CE-00947-00220088-00220310 everything from how we sleep to you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-00948-00220311-00220575 how we move in public space have indeed
G_7WPVHi1CE-00949-00220576-00220791 become part of that algorithmic
G_7WPVHi1CE-00950-00220792-00220975 modulation
G_7WPVHi1CE-00951-00220976-00221255 trevor to turn to you um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00952-00221256-00221487 extraordinary too um in in the sense
G_7WPVHi1CE-00953-00221488-00221646 that i know we keep talking about this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00954-00221648-00221791 question around
G_7WPVHi1CE-00955-00221792-00222023 why is it then we look at sort of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00956-00222023-00222310 classification of the world versus
G_7WPVHi1CE-00957-00222311-00222567 classification of humans um that it's so
G_7WPVHi1CE-00958-00222567-00222839 it's so commonly assumed to be fine that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00959-00222840-00222967 the minute we look at social
G_7WPVHi1CE-00960-00222967-00223223 classification of course these harms are
G_7WPVHi1CE-00961-00223223-00223446 very evident to us but what is it when
G_7WPVHi1CE-00962-00223448-00223727 we classify an apple and and how are
G_7WPVHi1CE-00963-00223728-00224006 those sorts of decisions being made
G_7WPVHi1CE-00964-00224007-00224223 and i think i i wanted to open up this
G_7WPVHi1CE-00965-00224223-00224358 question of image ability and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00966-00224359-00224527 particularly this idea of image ability
G_7WPVHi1CE-00967-00224528-00224894 as a quantitative uh strategy um as you
G_7WPVHi1CE-00968-00224896-00225198 and i both know um after i work on
G_7WPVHi1CE-00969-00225200-00225423 imagenet the imagenet creators have
G_7WPVHi1CE-00970-00225423-00225710 released a new version of imagenet um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00971-00225711-00225998 which includes a new uh imageability
G_7WPVHi1CE-00972-00226000-00226263 score um in response to critiques that
G_7WPVHi1CE-00973-00226264-00226463 there were so many ideas embedded in
G_7WPVHi1CE-00974-00226464-00226631 this data set they were inherently not
G_7WPVHi1CE-00975-00226632-00226910 visual from light to data
G_7WPVHi1CE-00976-00226911-00227142 to you know moral judgments that we've
G_7WPVHi1CE-00977-00227144-00227246 discussed
G_7WPVHi1CE-00978-00227248-00227487 um and and opening up that category of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00979-00227488-00227694 image ability um is so extraordinary
G_7WPVHi1CE-00980-00227696-00227855 because when you when you look at how
G_7WPVHi1CE-00981-00227856-00228158 things have been ranked it is again
G_7WPVHi1CE-00982-00228159-00228446 opening up this just world of illogic
G_7WPVHi1CE-00983-00228448-00228703 so that the idea of a grandmother is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00984-00228704-00229015 given an imageability score of five and
G_7WPVHi1CE-00985-00229016-00229215 what is it to be able to look at someone
G_7WPVHi1CE-00986-00229216-00229327 and know that their children have had
G_7WPVHi1CE-00987-00229328-00229510 children again this is not an imageable
G_7WPVHi1CE-00988-00229511-00229775 concept so i think again this brings us
G_7WPVHi1CE-00989-00229776-00229846 back
G_7WPVHi1CE-00990-00229848-00229934 um
G_7WPVHi1CE-00991-00229935-00230198 to the idea of a political economy of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00992-00230200-00230334 meaning making and i think you're
G_7WPVHi1CE-00993-00230335-00230503 absolutely right to say that this is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00994-00230504-00230742 where this work is is pushing towards
G_7WPVHi1CE-00995-00230744-00230967 because that is precisely why things are
G_7WPVHi1CE-00996-00230967-00231198 being given an imageability score it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-00997-00231200-00231431 because there are particular forms of
G_7WPVHi1CE-00998-00231432-00231671 profit to be gained and it also feeds
G_7WPVHi1CE-00999-00231671-00231951 into particular types of often very
G_7WPVHi1CE-01000-00231952-00232134 militarized logics
G_7WPVHi1CE-01001-00232135-00232382 so to answer your question of when is an
G_7WPVHi1CE-01002-00232383-00232646 apple um more than just an apple i would
G_7WPVHi1CE-01003-00232648-00232894 also say you know every time you have a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01004-00232896-00233103 photograph of yourself with an apple in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01005-00233104-00233294 instagram that's being scraped and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01006-00233296-00233487 understood as a score of your health
G_7WPVHi1CE-01007-00233488-00233671 that your insurance should actually
G_7WPVHi1CE-01008-00233671-00233846 recognize your good practices as opposed
G_7WPVHi1CE-01009-00233848-00234094 to if you have a photo holding a donut
G_7WPVHi1CE-01010-00234096-00234375 so indeed the apple itself has become an
G_7WPVHi1CE-01011-00234376-00234598 algorithmic modifier
G_7WPVHi1CE-01012-00234600-00234879 and sonia such a pleasure um your work
G_7WPVHi1CE-01013-00234880-00235182 again um has been just so important in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01014-00235183-00235310 thinking about these questions and i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01015-00235311-00235510 want to particularly note your recent
G_7WPVHi1CE-01016-00235511-00235710 work on the gender panopticon
G_7WPVHi1CE-01017-00235711-00235855 in terms of the way in which these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01018-00235856-00236158 systems are creating extraordinarily
G_7WPVHi1CE-01019-00236159-00236358 sort of heteronormative and exclusionary
G_7WPVHi1CE-01020-00236359-00236567 logics that particularly for trans and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01021-00236567-00236806 non-binary people are constantly being
G_7WPVHi1CE-01022-00236807-00237039 sort of written out and made invisible
G_7WPVHi1CE-01023-00237040-00237142 um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01024-00237144-00237334 and you know you've probably asked you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01025-00237335-00237542 know one of the the toughest questions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01026-00237544-00237839 you know which is what do we do um and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01027-00237840-00238094 and how might we answer that call with a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01028-00238096-00238319 material ethics
G_7WPVHi1CE-01029-00238319-00238551 i want to be honest with you i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01030-00238552-00238742 i've had enormous difficulty with the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01031-00238744-00239046 way in which the term ethics has been in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01032-00239048-00239351 some ways adopted in some ways defanged
G_7WPVHi1CE-01033-00239352-00239542 and in other ways used as a form of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01034-00239544-00239710 ethics washing
G_7WPVHi1CE-01035-00239711-00239942 particularly in in tech writ large but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01036-00239944-00240103 you could you could sort of look to many
G_7WPVHi1CE-01037-00240104-00240255 industries that i think have used and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01038-00240256-00240487 abused this term and interestingly you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01039-00240488-00240767 know i've never applied it to myself
G_7WPVHi1CE-01040-00240767-00240998 but it is at this point now where i do
G_7WPVHi1CE-01041-00241000-00241215 think we have to talk about materiality
G_7WPVHi1CE-01042-00241216-00241398 in different ways and grounded in an
G_7WPVHi1CE-01043-00241400-00241582 ethic but i you will notice that i'm
G_7WPVHi1CE-01044-00241583-00241806 using the concept of a material ethics
G_7WPVHi1CE-01045-00241807-00242046 of ai not ai ethics i think there's a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01046-00242048-00242198 very important distinction to be made
G_7WPVHi1CE-01047-00242200-00242415 there we're talking about an ethics of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01048-00242416-00242630 this broader world where we have to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01049-00242631-00242775 start thinking about these core
G_7WPVHi1CE-01050-00242776-00242934 questions around justice and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01051-00242935-00243071 sustainability
G_7WPVHi1CE-01052-00243071-00243310 so i think in that sense there's a hard
G_7WPVHi1CE-01053-00243311-00243519 conversation to be had about where that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01054-00243519-00243727 word serves and does not serve the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01055-00243728-00243927 broader political projects of justice in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01056-00243928-00244182 relation to these systems
G_7WPVHi1CE-01057-00244183-00244415 and jennifer i i wish i had an easy
G_7WPVHi1CE-01058-00244416-00244639 answer for you as to um what the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01059-00244640-00244910 pedagogical responses should be to how
G_7WPVHi1CE-01060-00244911-00245206 we might want to change the way that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01061-00245207-00245391 computer science and specifically
G_7WPVHi1CE-01062-00245392-00245598 machine learning is being taught today
G_7WPVHi1CE-01063-00245600-00245830 only i would say that i think it does
G_7WPVHi1CE-01064-00245831-00246191 need to be substantially changed now you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01065-00246192-00246479 have spoken powerfully to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01066-00246480-00246815 forms of interdisciplinarity and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01067-00246816-00246975 the question that that will always
G_7WPVHi1CE-01068-00246976-00247182 provoke and it's a good question is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01069-00247183-00247351 which disciplines get to sit at that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01070-00247352-00247639 table and who gets to have a say in how
G_7WPVHi1CE-01071-00247640-00247879 those systems will be built so it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01072-00247880-00248046 very common and i've unfortunately been
G_7WPVHi1CE-01073-00248048-00248246 in many of the rooms where you know i've
G_7WPVHi1CE-01074-00248248-00248534 heard a sense of interdisciplinarity as
G_7WPVHi1CE-01075-00248535-00248694 being described as having a computer
G_7WPVHi1CE-01076-00248696-00248967 scientist and a statistician and maybe
G_7WPVHi1CE-01077-00248967-00249263 somebody who's a bioethicist this is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01078-00249264-00249455 absolutely not enough and it is already
G_7WPVHi1CE-01079-00249456-00249719 such an attenuation of even the early
G_7WPVHi1CE-01080-00249719-00250030 histories of ai in the 1960s where we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01081-00250031-00250367 saw anthropologists we saw sociologists
G_7WPVHi1CE-01082-00250367-00250663 we saw art historians um coming to the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01083-00250664-00250830 table and actually being part of those
G_7WPVHi1CE-01084-00250831-00251110 conversations so again i would say that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01085-00251111-00251367 sometimes interdisciplinarity can sound
G_7WPVHi1CE-01086-00251367-00251591 like too easy a solution because i think
G_7WPVHi1CE-01087-00251592-00251855 it's it's often a very narrow pull on on
G_7WPVHi1CE-01088-00251856-00252110 whose expertise counts i think it also
G_7WPVHi1CE-01089-00252111-00252263 means that we have to ask the question
G_7WPVHi1CE-01090-00252264-00252494 of how do we think about accountability
G_7WPVHi1CE-01091-00252496-00252742 to the communities on whom these systems
G_7WPVHi1CE-01092-00252744-00253046 are frequently foisted on from above and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01093-00253048-00253279 that is one of the hardest questions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01094-00253280-00253558 because it's not easy um but it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01095-00253559-00253719 actually i think part of the question
G_7WPVHi1CE-01096-00253719-00253958 that we have to face that the sort of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01097-00253959-00254191 exclusion of communities from the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01098-00254192-00254439 process of designing systems um has
G_7WPVHi1CE-01099-00254440-00254679 brought about so many harms
G_7WPVHi1CE-01100-00254680-00254830 particularly in the last few years but i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01101-00254831-00254975 think you can look at decades of palms
G_7WPVHi1CE-01102-00254976-00255094 here as well
G_7WPVHi1CE-01103-00255096-00255239 so how you know if there's a core
G_7WPVHi1CE-01104-00255240-00255398 question that you want to ask people in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01105-00255400-00255598 terms of teaching their systems i would
G_7WPVHi1CE-01106-00255600-00255727 say question them
G_7WPVHi1CE-01107-00255728-00255887 the first thing that we can do is to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01108-00255888-00256039 question them far more radically than we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01109-00256040-00256271 have and to think about their impacts in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01110-00256271-00256551 a far more complex and long-term way but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01111-00256552-00256703 thank you so much for these provocations
G_7WPVHi1CE-01112-00256704-00256951 and i look forward to our discussion
G_7WPVHi1CE-01113-00256952-00257215 terrific thank you kate excellent okay
G_7WPVHi1CE-01114-00257216-00257391 so let me turn back to the panelists who
G_7WPVHi1CE-01115-00257392-00257582 responded turn to kate and then we'll
G_7WPVHi1CE-01116-00257583-00257727 we'll go from there
G_7WPVHi1CE-01117-00257728-00258046 so marion
G_7WPVHi1CE-01118-00258048-00258182 you first
G_7WPVHi1CE-01119-00258183-00258391 well thank you kate and also thank you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01120-00258392-00258591 for
G_7WPVHi1CE-01121-00258592-00258791 the many references i didn't expect to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01122-00258792-00259030 hear eigen capital
G_7WPVHi1CE-01123-00259031-00259327 in this conversation um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01124-00259328-00259406 i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01125-00259407-00259510 you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01126-00259511-00259791 so i'd like to go back to to two really
G_7WPVHi1CE-01127-00259792-00260006 important points that that you made one
G_7WPVHi1CE-01128-00260007-00260246 is who is the we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01129-00260248-00260471 um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01130-00260471-00260719 a lot of these systems you know were
G_7WPVHi1CE-01131-00260719-00260934 developed and continue to be their rocks
G_7WPVHi1CE-01132-00260935-00261175 actually we have this incredibly
G_7WPVHi1CE-01133-00261176-00261263 uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01134-00261264-00261534 you know uh flourishing and incredibly
G_7WPVHi1CE-01135-00261535-00261823 powerful language of inclusion
G_7WPVHi1CE-01136-00261823-00262039 right digital inclusion financial
G_7WPVHi1CE-01137-00262040-00262287 inclusion through digitization and so on
G_7WPVHi1CE-01138-00262288-00262479 so we have that in the developing world
G_7WPVHi1CE-01139-00262480-00262687 we have this towards the poorest most
G_7WPVHi1CE-01140-00262688-00262895 vulnerable segment of the population and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01141-00262896-00263127 that's been a huge argument for
G_7WPVHi1CE-01142-00263128-00263215 um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01143-00263216-00263423 for i'm thinking particularly of course
G_7WPVHi1CE-01144-00263424-00263687 of the you know uh credits uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01145-00263688-00263855 in general but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01146-00263856-00264063 i think it is really important to try to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01147-00264064-00264303 understand that and and um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01148-00264304-00264534 if you think about what's happened to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01149-00264535-00264791 finance you know you've had financial
G_7WPVHi1CE-01150-00264792-00264975 income you know the fact is it has
G_7WPVHi1CE-01151-00264976-00265103 happened right
G_7WPVHi1CE-01152-00265104-00265351 uh now the question whether it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01153-00265352-00265591 desirable or not is is is another
G_7WPVHi1CE-01154-00265592-00265791 question which i think we should treat
G_7WPVHi1CE-01155-00265792-00265999 separately but we've had you know that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01156-00266000-00266230 expansion we used to be that you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01157-00266231-00266391 women couldn't get the loan without
G_7WPVHi1CE-01158-00266392-00266623 their husband signing for it if we see
G_7WPVHi1CE-01159-00266624-00266887 that black people couldn't borrow you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01160-00266888-00267015 know um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01161-00267016-00267143 because of the neighborhoods that they
G_7WPVHi1CE-01162-00267144-00267447 lived in and so on so you know it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01163-00267448-00267567 some of this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01164-00267568-00267727 has persisted
G_7WPVHi1CE-01165-00267728-00267806 but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01166-00267807-00267975 you know there's been a transformation
G_7WPVHi1CE-01167-00267976-00268134 and i think it's important to talk about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01168-00268135-00268334 that transformation
G_7WPVHi1CE-01169-00268335-00268719 now what we get instead is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01170-00268720-00268943 you know we get a sort of recomposition
G_7WPVHi1CE-01171-00268944-00269182 you know reorganization
G_7WPVHi1CE-01172-00269183-00269463 right where new kinds of inequalities
G_7WPVHi1CE-01173-00269464-00269639 are emerging and the inequalities are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01174-00269640-00269806 emerging i mean
G_7WPVHi1CE-01175-00269807-00270047 of course the old ones are still there
G_7WPVHi1CE-01176-00270048-00270527 you know you very eloquently
G_7WPVHi1CE-01177-00270528-00270887 mentioned but we also have sort of new
G_7WPVHi1CE-01178-00270888-00271063 forms of stratification that are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01179-00271064-00271295 emerging that are sort of native to the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01180-00271296-00271599 digital economy and i think that's uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01181-00271600-00271839 you know that's one of the you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01182-00271840-00271991 one of the things that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01183-00271992-00272295 my work with kieran is trying to to show
G_7WPVHi1CE-01184-00272296-00272447 is that you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01185-00272448-00272734 maybe it matters more to your life
G_7WPVHi1CE-01186-00272735-00272839 today
G_7WPVHi1CE-01187-00272840-00272975 whether you know if you have a credit
G_7WPVHi1CE-01188-00272976-00273199 score below i don't know 600 or
G_7WPVHi1CE-01189-00273200-00273375 something maybe that's you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01190-00273376-00273663 something that really organizes a lot of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01191-00273664-00273815 the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01192-00273816-00274079 access that you get to basic services
G_7WPVHi1CE-01193-00274080-00274263 and you know housing and insurance and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01194-00274264-00274375 maybe
G_7WPVHi1CE-01195-00274376-00274575 a job and so on
G_7WPVHi1CE-01196-00274576-00274743 so that's one
G_7WPVHi1CE-01197-00274744-00274910 thing that i think is important the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01198-00274911-00275127 other thing that i think is you said and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01199-00275128-00275327 that's very important entry goes back to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01200-00275328-00275671 a point that that trevor was making
G_7WPVHi1CE-01201-00275672-00275843 which is that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01202-00275844-00276175 digitization and the development of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01203-00276176-00276415 machine learning
G_7WPVHi1CE-01204-00276416-00276599 is very much a process that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01205-00276600-00276839 associated with financialization
G_7WPVHi1CE-01206-00276840-00277047 right so it's really about the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01207-00277048-00277243 financialization of everything and the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01208-00277244-00277510 collateralization of everything for you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01209-00277511-00277663 know financial
G_7WPVHi1CE-01210-00277664-00277734 uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01211-00277735-00278006 purposes and we see that continuing
G_7WPVHi1CE-01212-00278007-00278182 today with like things that are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01213-00278183-00278543 happening here the nfts and the you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01214-00278544-00278799 uh even you know collateralizing
G_7WPVHi1CE-01215-00278800-00279030 everything about your person right so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01216-00279031-00279263 you know the process is still ongoing
G_7WPVHi1CE-01217-00279264-00279519 right and so you know the political
G_7WPVHi1CE-01218-00279520-00279743 economy of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01219-00279744-00280071 these systems is very much about the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01220-00280072-00280239 rise of finance
G_7WPVHi1CE-01221-00280240-00280382 and so that's sort of the broader
G_7WPVHi1CE-01222-00280383-00280527 context in which
G_7WPVHi1CE-01223-00280528-00280743 these you know these things are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01224-00280744-00280803 happening
G_7WPVHi1CE-01225-00280804-00281327 [Music]
G_7WPVHi1CE-01226-00281328-00281695 great trevor
G_7WPVHi1CE-01227-00281696-00281839 cool i mean i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01228-00281840-00282006 just have
G_7WPVHi1CE-01229-00282007-00282230 random thoughts i guess at this point as
G_7WPVHi1CE-01230-00282231-00282495 a as a response um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01231-00282496-00282871 you know i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01232-00282872-00283071 with this question of justice you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01233-00283072-00283495 so many times as i'm seeing these um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01234-00283496-00283887 arguments about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01235-00283888-00284063 the attempts to try to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01236-00284064-00284239 create fairness in algorithms or
G_7WPVHi1CE-01237-00284240-00284503 whatever i'm kind of constantly
G_7WPVHi1CE-01238-00284504-00284679 this conversation has happened before
G_7WPVHi1CE-01239-00284680-00284927 and it's happened in prison sentencing
G_7WPVHi1CE-01240-00284928-00285247 right so in the you know back in the day
G_7WPVHi1CE-01241-00285248-00285471 in the 60s and before that you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01242-00285472-00285623 you were sent into a crime you get an
G_7WPVHi1CE-01243-00285624-00285854 indeterminate sentence like three to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01244-00285855-00286015 seven years or something like that and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01245-00286016-00286230 then you have to go for a judge and they
G_7WPVHi1CE-01246-00286231-00286351 decide whether
G_7WPVHi1CE-01247-00286352-00286534 how long you would serve right and what
G_7WPVHi1CE-01248-00286535-00286687 ended up happening was white people
G_7WPVHi1CE-01249-00286688-00286791 would do three years and black people
G_7WPVHi1CE-01250-00286792-00287023 would do seven years right so it and it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01251-00287024-00287230 had this very racist outcome and the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01252-00287231-00287423 response to that was well-meaning
G_7WPVHi1CE-01253-00287424-00287551 liberal people were like well we should
G_7WPVHi1CE-01254-00287552-00287782 have truth and sentencing right you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01255-00287783-00287943 should get a sentence and that should be
G_7WPVHi1CE-01256-00287944-00288127 it and that should that'll fix the whole
G_7WPVHi1CE-01257-00288128-00288351 problem well guess what that didn't fix
G_7WPVHi1CE-01258-00288352-00288630 the problem you know that um you know it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01259-00288631-00288854 created a situation where everybody got
G_7WPVHi1CE-01260-00288855-00289095 seven year sentences you had a massive
G_7WPVHi1CE-01261-00289096-00289239 explosion in the prisons and it didn't
G_7WPVHi1CE-01262-00289240-00289495 become any less racist at all kind of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01263-00289496-00289687 quite the opposite it also created the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01264-00289688-00289958 opportunity for uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01265-00289959-00290223 sentence enhancements and for uh it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01266-00290224-00290463 created a situation whereby
G_7WPVHi1CE-01267-00290464-00290567 the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01268-00290568-00290791 lever that you could pull was the number
G_7WPVHi1CE-01269-00290792-00290927 of that sentence and so it would
G_7WPVHi1CE-01270-00290928-00291151 continually go up and up and up and up
G_7WPVHi1CE-01271-00291152-00291239 now
G_7WPVHi1CE-01272-00291240-00291487 um so i'm just
G_7WPVHi1CE-01273-00291488-00291695 using that as a kind of a historical
G_7WPVHi1CE-01274-00291696-00291999 reminder that there are deeper problems
G_7WPVHi1CE-01275-00292000-00292287 and how to address those deeper problems
G_7WPVHi1CE-01276-00292288-00292406 is hard
G_7WPVHi1CE-01277-00292407-00292687 it's really really hard you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01278-00292688-00292934 and um and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01279-00292935-00293095 so in terms of thinking about the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01280-00293096-00293358 interdisciplinary conversation
G_7WPVHi1CE-01281-00293359-00293727 in machine learning i think there
G_7WPVHi1CE-01282-00293728-00294023 there's something to learn from that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01283-00294024-00294343 in terms of not only thinking about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01284-00294344-00294582 who is in the room
G_7WPVHi1CE-01285-00294583-00294934 but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01286-00294935-00295095 i guess just thinking like in a deep way
G_7WPVHi1CE-01287-00295096-00295279 about historical context and like
G_7WPVHi1CE-01288-00295280-00295471 context that are perhaps even deeper
G_7WPVHi1CE-01289-00295472-00295679 than the the then the framework in which
G_7WPVHi1CE-01290-00295680-00295943 you're posing the question are right
G_7WPVHi1CE-01291-00295944-00296158 um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01292-00296159-00296367 about the ethics and ai thing it's it's
G_7WPVHi1CE-01293-00296368-00296615 really funny i hadn't looked at the um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01294-00296616-00296839 race papers recently but in preparation
G_7WPVHi1CE-01295-00296840-00296982 for your talk i went back and just said
G_7WPVHi1CE-01296-00296983-00297175 are people still doing this and and they
G_7WPVHi1CE-01297-00297176-00297327 and the answer is yes
G_7WPVHi1CE-01298-00297328-00297534 with the caveat this is just started
G_7WPVHi1CE-01299-00297535-00297782 blowing my mind that in the introduction
G_7WPVHi1CE-01300-00297783-00297943 of these papers now it's like oh and we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01301-00297944-00298151 have to recognize race as a historical
G_7WPVHi1CE-01302-00298152-00298279 construct and it's coming out of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01303-00298280-00298479 colonialism so let's get busy building
G_7WPVHi1CE-01304-00298480-00298679 race classifiers i'm like what the hell
G_7WPVHi1CE-01305-00298680-00298934 is going on here like so you know how
G_7WPVHi1CE-01306-00298935-00299039 has this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01307-00299040-00299327 you this sense or awareness that maybe
G_7WPVHi1CE-01308-00299328-00299543 there should be ethics and ai
G_7WPVHi1CE-01309-00299544-00299895 get stated but then like the same
G_7WPVHi1CE-01310-00299896-00300175 is done on the back end
G_7WPVHi1CE-01311-00300176-00300430 um so it's just it's just that and i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01312-00300431-00300503 guess
G_7WPVHi1CE-01313-00300504-00300751 i kind of had a question for you ken i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01314-00300752-00301039 mean you work in labs and i don't
G_7WPVHi1CE-01315-00301040-00301223 obviously i'm some artist i just look
G_7WPVHi1CE-01316-00301224-00301471 and be like oh that's weird you know um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01317-00301472-00301887 but i guess the question that i have is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01318-00301888-00302167 is basic research possible
G_7WPVHi1CE-01319-00302168-00302375 you know given all of the things that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01320-00302376-00302663 we're talking about here you know i and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01321-00302664-00302839 i mean i mean that is a very serious
G_7WPVHi1CE-01322-00302840-00303023 question and kind of what is that in in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01323-00303024-00303271 your mind in your pedagogy what is that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01324-00303272-00303447 distinction between
G_7WPVHi1CE-01325-00303448-00303679 what is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01326-00303680-00303871 i guess what is what it would be akin to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01327-00303872-00304039 basic research in physics versus you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01328-00304040-00304310 know sociological tinkering or what have
G_7WPVHi1CE-01329-00304311-00304430 you you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01330-00304431-00304630 well thanks trevor i actually i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01331-00304631-00304743 appreciate that because i've been sort
G_7WPVHi1CE-01332-00304744-00304951 of wanting to jump in a little bit and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01333-00304952-00305039 and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01334-00305040-00305327 what i want to note is you know i i was
G_7WPVHi1CE-01335-00305328-00305687 struck by the the term eigen capital and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01336-00305688-00305887 it's it's very interesting because that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01337-00305888-00306143 is a it references this idea of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01338-00306144-00306351 eigenvectors and principal component
G_7WPVHi1CE-01339-00306352-00306495 analysis
G_7WPVHi1CE-01340-00306496-00306743 and this was really the root of of a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01341-00306744-00307039 very early classification and that that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01342-00307040-00307199 uh you know very much of mine with what
G_7WPVHi1CE-01343-00307200-00307503 marian said about algorithms allocate
G_7WPVHi1CE-01344-00307504-00307710 and it was with the the the terrible
G_7WPVHi1CE-01345-00307711-00307903 history of the iq
G_7WPVHi1CE-01346-00307904-00308167 right and the idea of the iq was to was
G_7WPVHi1CE-01347-00308168-00308367 to use dimensionality reduction to find
G_7WPVHi1CE-01348-00308368-00308527 these dimensions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01349-00308528-00308743 and to be able to score people along
G_7WPVHi1CE-01350-00308744-00308895 those with the implicit assumption that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01351-00308896-00309063 there was one sort of metric of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01352-00309064-00309239 intelligence there was a there was this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01353-00309240-00309351 there was this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01354-00309352-00309519 singular
G_7WPVHi1CE-01355-00309520-00309687 idea that everyone could be ranked on a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01356-00309688-00309951 scale a linear scale of intelligence
G_7WPVHi1CE-01357-00309952-00310287 and so that was really um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01358-00310288-00310495 you know a huge distortion was used by
G_7WPVHi1CE-01359-00310496-00310695 the military obviously to to rank
G_7WPVHi1CE-01360-00310696-00310847 recruits and such
G_7WPVHi1CE-01361-00310848-00311071 it's interesting because we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01362-00311072-00311247 we did a project a few years ago where
G_7WPVHi1CE-01363-00311248-00311510 we tried to to use principal component
G_7WPVHi1CE-01364-00311511-00311839 analysis to analyze patterns of ratings
G_7WPVHi1CE-01365-00311840-00311991 of jokes
G_7WPVHi1CE-01366-00311992-00312175 and we had a number of jokes and we had
G_7WPVHi1CE-01367-00312176-00312334 people rating them and so we applied
G_7WPVHi1CE-01368-00312335-00312510 principal clone analysis to project it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01369-00312511-00312710 down onto a plane and i was hoping that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01370-00312711-00312887 we would find certain clusters in other
G_7WPVHi1CE-01371-00312888-00313095 words senses of humor
G_7WPVHi1CE-01372-00313096-00313295 and in that same way what was very
G_7WPVHi1CE-01373-00313296-00313527 frustrating and ultimately more more
G_7WPVHi1CE-01374-00313528-00313719 interesting revealing was that the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01375-00313720-00313919 everybody was all over the place
G_7WPVHi1CE-01376-00313920-00314095 it looked like a huge nighttime sky of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01377-00314096-00314247 consolation there weren't really many
G_7WPVHi1CE-01378-00314248-00314367 clusters
G_7WPVHi1CE-01379-00314368-00314663 and so humor was all was just hugely
G_7WPVHi1CE-01380-00314664-00314895 spread out and so and i think this is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01381-00314896-00315071 very interesting in regard to you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01382-00315072-00315271 kate your comment about ekman
G_7WPVHi1CE-01383-00315272-00315599 and you know he i do think that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01384-00315600-00315751 in terms of fairness i do think there's
G_7WPVHi1CE-01385-00315752-00316095 a little more to his analysis uh he he
G_7WPVHi1CE-01386-00316096-00316279 he i think the idea of the six
G_7WPVHi1CE-01387-00316280-00316471 emotions are sort of a you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01388-00316472-00316743 acknowledged as a kind of very very
G_7WPVHi1CE-01389-00316744-00316982 simplified to trying to take on some
G_7WPVHi1CE-01390-00316983-00317254 principal components of these dimensions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01391-00317255-00317471 but with with recognition that that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01392-00317472-00317727 by no means to mean exhaustive or
G_7WPVHi1CE-01393-00317728-00317839 exclusive
G_7WPVHi1CE-01394-00317840-00318071 but i think that what we're this idea of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01395-00318072-00318303 history and understanding where these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01396-00318304-00318575 tools come from is is extremely
G_7WPVHi1CE-01397-00318576-00318830 important and very much absent in most
G_7WPVHi1CE-01398-00318831-00318967 of the training
G_7WPVHi1CE-01399-00318968-00319151 for for scientists and engineers and i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01400-00319152-00319406 see jennifer nodding here and so what i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01401-00319407-00319775 keep coming back to is the the the this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01402-00319776-00319975 huge gulf that continues to exist
G_7WPVHi1CE-01403-00319976-00320239 between the two cultures
G_7WPVHi1CE-01404-00320240-00320591 and we have it here in it you know as
G_7WPVHi1CE-01405-00320592-00320823 far advanced as i feel berkeley is in so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01406-00320824-00321151 many ways it that that that golf it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01407-00321152-00321334 continues to persist
G_7WPVHi1CE-01408-00321335-00321582 and so you have huge misunderstandings
G_7WPVHi1CE-01409-00321583-00321863 and last week for example i was in a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01410-00321864-00322119 discussion and there was it was a number
G_7WPVHi1CE-01411-00322120-00322247 of colleagues talking about critical
G_7WPVHi1CE-01412-00322248-00322375 race theory
G_7WPVHi1CE-01413-00322376-00322630 and they brought up popper
G_7WPVHi1CE-01414-00322631-00322854 in order to say you know this is not a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01415-00322855-00322951 theory
G_7WPVHi1CE-01416-00322952-00323182 this is you know there's no
G_7WPVHi1CE-01417-00323183-00323415 refutability yes and it was really
G_7WPVHi1CE-01418-00323416-00323582 interesting because they didn't have any
G_7WPVHi1CE-01419-00323583-00323871 real sense of critical theory what it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01420-00323872-00323958 meant
G_7WPVHi1CE-01421-00323959-00324103 and how
G_7WPVHi1CE-01422-00324104-00324303 there could be sociological and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01423-00324304-00324534 philosophical theory
G_7WPVHi1CE-01424-00324535-00324710 and they only in their mind the only
G_7WPVHi1CE-01425-00324711-00325103 theory was mathematical theory so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01426-00325104-00325343 that persists and it's still very alive
G_7WPVHi1CE-01427-00325344-00325582 and and thriving and so i think the key
G_7WPVHi1CE-01428-00325583-00325823 is that there's there's a very strong
G_7WPVHi1CE-01429-00325824-00325958 cultural gap
G_7WPVHi1CE-01430-00325959-00326039 that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01431-00326040-00326223 that's going on and that's what what i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01432-00326224-00326495 think is so interesting about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01433-00326496-00326671 what you and kate
G_7WPVHi1CE-01434-00326672-00326934 and and and marion and and sonya are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01435-00326935-00327134 doing which is you're you're you're
G_7WPVHi1CE-01436-00327135-00327351 excavating by coming into this this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01437-00327352-00327510 other world and really diving into it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01438-00327511-00327719 deeply you're revealing things that the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01439-00327720-00327863 the engineers are not realizing
G_7WPVHi1CE-01440-00327864-00327999 themselves
G_7WPVHi1CE-01441-00328000-00328263 and showing them now they're not gonna
G_7WPVHi1CE-01442-00328264-00328423 they don't like what they said when you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01443-00328424-00328575 see when you see this right and you've
G_7WPVHi1CE-01444-00328576-00328758 seen the reactions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01445-00328759-00328982 the point is though that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01446-00328983-00329127 you know i think that there's something
G_7WPVHi1CE-01447-00329128-00329358 very deep going on here and it's very
G_7WPVHi1CE-01448-00329359-00329575 it's it's age-old
G_7WPVHi1CE-01449-00329576-00329734 in terms of looking back in history so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01450-00329735-00329951 to your points about how do we you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01451-00329952-00330143 what is the ethics how do we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01452-00330144-00330358 how what is normative how can we sort of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01453-00330359-00330527 learn from this and move forward in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01454-00330528-00330734 terms of the pedagogy i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01455-00330735-00330967 really i think one thing is is is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01456-00330968-00331199 understanding history to the degree that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01457-00331200-00331399 our students can really hear these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01458-00331400-00331647 stories and know about these these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01459-00331648-00331871 backgrounds and about the history for
G_7WPVHi1CE-01460-00331872-00331991 example i learned a number of things
G_7WPVHi1CE-01461-00331992-00332167 about speech recognition that i never
G_7WPVHi1CE-01462-00332168-00332454 knew before and that guy from um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01463-00332455-00332615 what was he he was uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01464-00332616-00332815 who who was he the the he was part of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01465-00332816-00332999 the uh secret
G_7WPVHi1CE-01466-00333000-00333078 um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01467-00333079-00333158 oh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01468-00333159-00333319 he was one of the speech wrecking guys
G_7WPVHi1CE-01469-00333320-00333471 but he was a shady character who was
G_7WPVHi1CE-01470-00333472-00333599 part of what
G_7WPVHi1CE-01471-00333600-00333823 uh robert mercer perhaps the uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01472-00333824-00334087 reclusive billionaire yes yes yes i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01473-00334088-00334287 never knew that whole story so that's
G_7WPVHi1CE-01474-00334288-00334495 that has to be taught in our data
G_7WPVHi1CE-01475-00334496-00334751 science class we need to understand that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01476-00334752-00334943 thing and so and you're you know what i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01477-00334944-00335127 have to say also as an artist i think
G_7WPVHi1CE-01478-00335128-00335358 you're what you did with the with the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01479-00335359-00335503 piece on in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01480-00335504-00335719 imagenet what you did was you took it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01481-00335720-00336023 and you made it you you brought it very
G_7WPVHi1CE-01482-00336024-00336263 vividly back to the moment the present
G_7WPVHi1CE-01483-00336264-00336487 moment and you you showed it operating
G_7WPVHi1CE-01484-00336488-00336654 on ourselves
G_7WPVHi1CE-01485-00336655-00336847 because we went to that page and you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01486-00336848-00337054 took a picture of us and then it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01487-00337055-00337415 categorized us and that was so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01488-00337416-00337695 gripping and compelling so i you know i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01489-00337696-00337887 salute you because it was a hugely
G_7WPVHi1CE-01490-00337888-00337982 brilliant
G_7WPVHi1CE-01491-00337983-00338206 idea and rather than just sort of giving
G_7WPVHi1CE-01492-00338207-00338423 examples in the abstract you use our own
G_7WPVHi1CE-01493-00338424-00338527 faces
G_7WPVHi1CE-01494-00338528-00338815 to to exemplify and that kind of work is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01495-00338816-00339023 exactly what i think is needed is that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01496-00339024-00339182 very vivid
G_7WPVHi1CE-01497-00339183-00339471 interesting stories that really tell us
G_7WPVHi1CE-01498-00339472-00339591 and show us
G_7WPVHi1CE-01499-00339592-00339775 what what these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01500-00339776-00339958 where these these histories where these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01501-00339959-00340151 nuances lie
G_7WPVHi1CE-01502-00340152-00340375 so i would i want i'm curious how others
G_7WPVHi1CE-01503-00340376-00340687 feel about this this idea of of of using
G_7WPVHi1CE-01504-00340688-00340782 art
G_7WPVHi1CE-01505-00340783-00341103 as a form of of activism to look to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01506-00341104-00341319 alert and essentially educate the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01507-00341320-00341615 broader public and the scientists
G_7WPVHi1CE-01508-00341616-00341927 and and engineers of this world
G_7WPVHi1CE-01509-00341928-00342310 can i jump in here ken for a second uh
G_7WPVHi1CE-01510-00342311-00342543 you know it's funny because
G_7WPVHi1CE-01511-00342544-00342791 we talk about kind of math and technical
G_7WPVHi1CE-01512-00342792-00342910 when in fact
G_7WPVHi1CE-01513-00342911-00343278 i'm a mathematician at heart and math
G_7WPVHi1CE-01514-00343279-00343447 is beautiful
G_7WPVHi1CE-01515-00343448-00343623 math i mean
G_7WPVHi1CE-01516-00343624-00343863 when i look at a proof
G_7WPVHi1CE-01517-00343864-00344095 sometimes i can tell who wrote that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01518-00344096-00344358 proof in the same way when i walk
G_7WPVHi1CE-01519-00344359-00344575 through a museum there's a piece of art
G_7WPVHi1CE-01520-00344576-00344863 i haven't seen but i know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01521-00344864-00345054 whose art that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01522-00345055-00345358 and so there is a beauty
G_7WPVHi1CE-01523-00345359-00345606 in mathematics and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01524-00345607-00345815 when you look at the evolution of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01525-00345816-00346151 computer science part of it came out of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01526-00346152-00346415 mathematics part of it came out of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01527-00346416-00346751 engineering part of it came out of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01528-00346752-00347015 trying to find the perfect
G_7WPVHi1CE-01529-00347016-00347354 the perfect explanation the perfect
G_7WPVHi1CE-01530-00347355-00347663 elucidation and part of it came out of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01531-00347664-00347871 trying to solve a problem
G_7WPVHi1CE-01532-00347872-00348087 and both are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01533-00348088-00348230 legitimate
G_7WPVHi1CE-01534-00348231-00348327 okay
G_7WPVHi1CE-01535-00348328-00348423 but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01536-00348424-00348703 we have to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01537-00348704-00348839 bring them back
G_7WPVHi1CE-01538-00348840-00348967 together
G_7WPVHi1CE-01539-00348968-00349351 now we have to bring them back together
G_7WPVHi1CE-01540-00349352-00349687 and i feel with this new college that we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01541-00349688-00349958 are forming that that is what we are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01542-00349959-00350327 doing and there is in many many people
G_7WPVHi1CE-01543-00350328-00350654 i've seen go into computer science in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01544-00350655-00350975 the last couple of decades are people
G_7WPVHi1CE-01545-00350976-00351327 who would have gone into mathematics who
G_7WPVHi1CE-01546-00351328-00351671 are searching for the beautiful who are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01547-00351672-00352071 asking questions and searching for
G_7WPVHi1CE-01548-00352072-00352254 answers in the same way that a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01549-00352255-00352567 philosopher would or honestly i think in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01550-00352568-00352806 the same way an artist would it's not
G_7WPVHi1CE-01551-00352807-00353087 everything but it is the essence of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01552-00353088-00353206 something
G_7WPVHi1CE-01553-00353207-00353367 and so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01554-00353368-00353454 i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01555-00353455-00353815 believe that there will be a resonance
G_7WPVHi1CE-01556-00353816-00353910 with
G_7WPVHi1CE-01557-00353911-00354263 people in the technical community
G_7WPVHi1CE-01558-00354264-00354471 if we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01559-00354472-00354734 highlight that beauty
G_7WPVHi1CE-01560-00354735-00355119 if we highlight that attempt
G_7WPVHi1CE-01561-00355120-00355310 to understand
G_7WPVHi1CE-01562-00355311-00355406 you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01563-00355407-00355687 what is just and what is unjust and it's
G_7WPVHi1CE-01564-00355688-00355910 not simple of course there's not one
G_7WPVHi1CE-01565-00355911-00356143 answer to that okay
G_7WPVHi1CE-01566-00356144-00356263 but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01567-00356264-00356623 there there is a part of the of this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01568-00356624-00356787 pull between
G_7WPVHi1CE-01569-00356788-00357110 complexifying and simplifying that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01570-00357111-00357527 beauty that is what art does art
G_7WPVHi1CE-01571-00357528-00357734 trades off between these poles of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01572-00357735-00357951 complexifying and simplifying and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01573-00357952-00358143 bringing the exemplar
G_7WPVHi1CE-01574-00358144-00358551 and so i do believe that there is space
G_7WPVHi1CE-01575-00358552-00358678 for this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01576-00358679-00358943 kate knows we tried to build this at
G_7WPVHi1CE-01577-00358944-00359223 microsoft research i did hire
G_7WPVHi1CE-01578-00359224-00359527 philosophers and anthropologists
G_7WPVHi1CE-01579-00359528-00359854 and i think it is what we are building
G_7WPVHi1CE-01580-00359855-00359975 here
G_7WPVHi1CE-01581-00359976-00360219 we are trying to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01582-00360220-00360430 reinitiate this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01583-00360431-00360623 and i also want to go back to what kate
G_7WPVHi1CE-01584-00360624-00360863 said about questions because for the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01585-00360864-00361134 people who are not going into the field
G_7WPVHi1CE-01586-00361135-00361303 i do not believe that you can be a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01587-00361304-00361615 member of a civil society without having
G_7WPVHi1CE-01588-00361616-00361830 what you need to question
G_7WPVHi1CE-01589-00361831-00362175 all these data-derived conclusions that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01590-00362176-00362447 and decisions that come your way
G_7WPVHi1CE-01591-00362448-00362678 and for the people who are going to be
G_7WPVHi1CE-01592-00362679-00362951 the practitioners in this field they
G_7WPVHi1CE-01593-00362952-00363134 must question
G_7WPVHi1CE-01594-00363135-00363447 all the time what are they attempting to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01595-00363448-00363719 achieve who is served and who is not
G_7WPVHi1CE-01596-00363720-00363910 served by that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01597-00363911-00364063 so i just
G_7WPVHi1CE-01598-00364064-00364382 you know i i don't believe the gulf is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01599-00364383-00364623 as wide as you think
G_7WPVHi1CE-01600-00364624-00364830 i think we're bringing things back
G_7WPVHi1CE-01601-00364831-00364943 together
G_7WPVHi1CE-01602-00364944-00365230 and that's what we have to achieve here
G_7WPVHi1CE-01603-00365231-00365654 it's just my two cents
G_7WPVHi1CE-01604-00365655-00365815 yeah one thing that i just want to jump
G_7WPVHi1CE-01605-00365816-00366158 in uh just as a a as a lawyer like one
G_7WPVHi1CE-01606-00366159-00366375 of the things that i often struggle with
G_7WPVHi1CE-01607-00366376-00366551 is the fact that so much of the history
G_7WPVHi1CE-01608-00366552-00366823 of our civil rights movement is premised
G_7WPVHi1CE-01609-00366824-00367054 on the social construction of identity
G_7WPVHi1CE-01610-00367055-00367254 categories right and so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01611-00367255-00367454 so much of the stuff that we learn and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01612-00367455-00367663 critical race theory and all of these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01613-00367664-00367887 different things i think are premised on
G_7WPVHi1CE-01614-00367888-00368127 the notion that there are identities
G_7WPVHi1CE-01615-00368128-00368254 that are constructed and these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01616-00368255-00368567 identities can be deconstructed and i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01617-00368568-00368839 think where i sort of come out um and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01618-00368840-00369006 maybe this is because i am a lawyer and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01619-00369007-00369158 i do believe in like trying to figure
G_7WPVHi1CE-01620-00369159-00369319 out a solution to a problem which is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01621-00369320-00369503 partly why i think ai is so interesting
G_7WPVHi1CE-01622-00369504-00369623 to me because there really is no
G_7WPVHi1CE-01623-00369624-00369815 solution is that there's a myriad of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01624-00369816-00370023 different ways that you can approach
G_7WPVHi1CE-01625-00370024-00370406 this right so some people uh want more
G_7WPVHi1CE-01626-00370407-00370695 representation in data sets and other
G_7WPVHi1CE-01627-00370696-00370991 people want us to question the very
G_7WPVHi1CE-01628-00370992-00371151 assumptions that are built into those
G_7WPVHi1CE-01629-00371152-00371382 data sets and still others would want us
G_7WPVHi1CE-01630-00371383-00371630 to abandon those systems and i think
G_7WPVHi1CE-01631-00371631-00371839 that this is where your point kate about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01632-00371840-00372015 listening to the communities that are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01633-00372016-00372302 being targeted by these systems is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01634-00372303-00372558 really important right because not every
G_7WPVHi1CE-01635-00372559-00372799 community is going to have one answer
G_7WPVHi1CE-01636-00372800-00373023 and it's important for us this is the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01637-00373024-00373254 project of democracy right um and it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01638-00373255-00373510 the project of the kind of work that we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01639-00373511-00373758 are now that is now being done
G_7WPVHi1CE-01640-00373759-00374054 by companies in ways that i think um you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01641-00374055-00374254 know often overlooks the complexity of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01642-00374255-00374454 these categories so these conversations
G_7WPVHi1CE-01643-00374455-00374758 have to happen in order for them to be
G_7WPVHi1CE-01644-00374759-00374982 effective but at the same time we also
G_7WPVHi1CE-01645-00374983-00375215 have to recognize that you know as
G_7WPVHi1CE-01646-00375216-00375391 trevor's point about the sentencing
G_7WPVHi1CE-01647-00375392-00375551 guidelines shows us
G_7WPVHi1CE-01648-00375552-00375727 you know there are times where you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01649-00375728-00375934 you really want to question the efficacy
G_7WPVHi1CE-01650-00375935-00376167 of a system and you want to think about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01651-00376168-00376367 you know its impacts on particular
G_7WPVHi1CE-01652-00376368-00376582 groups but there's not one answer here
G_7WPVHi1CE-01653-00376583-00376751 and i think that's kind of one of the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01654-00376752-00376958 nice things about your book is that it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01655-00376959-00377119 provides us with a whole variety of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01656-00377120-00377406 different lenses to think about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01657-00377407-00377710 sonia can i just thank you so much for
G_7WPVHi1CE-01658-00377711-00377823 particularly bringing in that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01659-00377824-00377943 perspective because i was having
G_7WPVHi1CE-01660-00377944-00378175 flashbacks to being in law school and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01661-00378176-00378375 thinking about you know critical race
G_7WPVHi1CE-01662-00378376-00378502 theory when it was a thing that you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01663-00378503-00378695 learned in law school and real it is a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01664-00378696-00378902 it is an actual body of thinking and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01665-00378903-00379071 thought and to see the way that it has
G_7WPVHi1CE-01666-00379072-00379334 been so sort of horrifically turned into
G_7WPVHi1CE-01667-00379335-00379527 this like political
G_7WPVHi1CE-01668-00379528-00379767 uh football um for all of the worst
G_7WPVHi1CE-01669-00379768-00379958 reasons reminding us that knowledge is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01670-00379959-00380247 itself this way of trying to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01671-00380248-00380502 create political force and political
G_7WPVHi1CE-01672-00380503-00380734 power but the thing that i also really
G_7WPVHi1CE-01673-00380735-00380910 would love to to hear from you because
G_7WPVHi1CE-01674-00380911-00381039 you've also thought about this in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01675-00381040-00381182 relation to art
G_7WPVHi1CE-01676-00381183-00381495 is this i think for me
G_7WPVHi1CE-01677-00381496-00381663 undercurrent which we we haven't quite
G_7WPVHi1CE-01678-00381664-00381847 yet touched on which is so important to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01679-00381848-00382119 me in the role of art which is more than
G_7WPVHi1CE-01680-00382120-00382423 its role in aesthetics and beauty but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01681-00382424-00382623 actually its role in politics and the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01682-00382624-00382863 way in which art can teach us actually
G_7WPVHi1CE-01683-00382864-00383095 something around the politics of refusal
G_7WPVHi1CE-01684-00383096-00383287 um something that i write about in atlas
G_7WPVHi1CE-01685-00383288-00383495 but it also was a topic of a great
G_7WPVHi1CE-01686-00383496-00383702 conference at berkeley um just a couple
G_7WPVHi1CE-01687-00383703-00383895 of years ago and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01688-00383896-00384134 for me the the core question and the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01689-00384135-00384382 democratic question in the heart of what
G_7WPVHi1CE-01690-00384383-00384606 you've just told us which is absolutely
G_7WPVHi1CE-01691-00384607-00384734 right that people will have very
G_7WPVHi1CE-01692-00384735-00384910 different responses to their desire to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01693-00384911-00385110 be visible they desire to be present in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01694-00385111-00385399 data collection in systems of of scoring
G_7WPVHi1CE-01695-00385400-00385582 and classification
G_7WPVHi1CE-01696-00385583-00385895 is where is the ability to say no
G_7WPVHi1CE-01697-00385896-00386191 we have absolutely written that out of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01698-00386192-00386430 so many of these systems for so long and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01699-00386431-00386623 i think it's a fiction at this point
G_7WPVHi1CE-01700-00386624-00386782 this idea that you can oh well i'm you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01701-00386783-00386934 know you don't use facebook or you don't
G_7WPVHi1CE-01702-00386935-00387151 have a phone or this idea that somehow
G_7WPVHi1CE-01703-00387152-00387343 you know now i'm out you're not you have
G_7WPVHi1CE-01704-00387344-00387551 been absolutely ingested in every way
G_7WPVHi1CE-01705-00387552-00387734 and in precisely that that sort of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01706-00387735-00388039 capture of the commons so for me and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01707-00388040-00388182 again this actually brings us back to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01708-00388183-00388310 the question you posed at the beginning
G_7WPVHi1CE-01709-00388311-00388510 you know what is the the role of art
G_7WPVHi1CE-01710-00388511-00388815 here and i've learned so much from
G_7WPVHi1CE-01711-00388816-00389015 collaborating with artists like trevor
G_7WPVHi1CE-01712-00389016-00389230 like lauren like heather drewy hagborg
G_7WPVHi1CE-01713-00389231-00389495 many others um around how do you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01714-00389496-00389710 actually make this a public conversation
G_7WPVHi1CE-01715-00389711-00389871 where people first of all can see these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01716-00389872-00390071 systems can see how they work can see
G_7WPVHi1CE-01717-00390072-00390287 how they fail can see how in many ways
G_7WPVHi1CE-01718-00390288-00390551 they're just so basic and and in many
G_7WPVHi1CE-01719-00390552-00390775 cases folding in ideas that i think are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01720-00390776-00391063 genuinely unscientific and genuinely
G_7WPVHi1CE-01721-00391064-00391319 suspect and then how do we make that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01722-00391320-00391606 public public conversation lead into a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01723-00391607-00391847 genuine politics of review of refusal to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01724-00391848-00391999 say that these systems
G_7WPVHi1CE-01725-00392000-00392254 can be used well in some circumscribed
G_7WPVHi1CE-01726-00392255-00392487 domains but are absolutely inappropriate
G_7WPVHi1CE-01727-00392488-00392606 in others
G_7WPVHi1CE-01728-00392607-00392823 so for me that is such an important
G_7WPVHi1CE-01729-00392824-00393599 thing for us to center on as well
G_7WPVHi1CE-01730-00393600-00393871 good good good so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01731-00393872-00394030 you know one thing i want to i want to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01732-00394031-00394278 say is i think that it's really helpful
G_7WPVHi1CE-01733-00394279-00394375 to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01734-00394376-00394495 to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01735-00394496-00394743 you know sometimes the the conversation
G_7WPVHi1CE-01736-00394744-00394943 becomes a little bit polemical in the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01737-00394944-00395167 sense that i think of the the the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01738-00395168-00395327 engineer
G_7WPVHi1CE-01739-00395328-00395591 speaking was one uh with my engineer hat
G_7WPVHi1CE-01740-00395592-00395823 on tonight that you know we could feel a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01741-00395824-00395982 little bit um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01742-00395983-00396182 you know that that that there's a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01743-00396183-00396406 condemned condemned a sense of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01744-00396407-00396534 condemnation
G_7WPVHi1CE-01745-00396535-00396710 and i i think it's it's also important
G_7WPVHi1CE-01746-00396711-00397015 that you know we we we also both reflect
G_7WPVHi1CE-01747-00397016-00397191 in in our own you know in our own
G_7WPVHi1CE-01748-00397192-00397343 disciplines and our own
G_7WPVHi1CE-01749-00397344-00397623 um thinking about about these things and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01750-00397624-00397823 examine our own assumptions i think that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01751-00397824-00397902 that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01752-00397903-00398143 that the the humanities and social
G_7WPVHi1CE-01753-00398144-00398406 sciences are often doing that and i i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01754-00398407-00398599 take that as great inspiration how
G_7WPVHi1CE-01755-00398600-00398895 there's a self critique and mutual
G_7WPVHi1CE-01756-00398896-00399110 critique going on there and so i think
G_7WPVHi1CE-01757-00399111-00399310 that from the engineers perspective they
G_7WPVHi1CE-01758-00399311-00399478 will also appreciate
G_7WPVHi1CE-01759-00399479-00399775 that kind of self um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01760-00399776-00399967 you know questioning in the context of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01761-00399968-00400271 these of these discussions because
G_7WPVHi1CE-01762-00400272-00400430 you know they're not
G_7WPVHi1CE-01763-00400431-00400543 you know i think sometimes there's sort
G_7WPVHi1CE-01764-00400544-00400775 of this idea they're monstrously you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01765-00400776-00400991 know diabolical and and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01766-00400992-00401143 and you know i think as jennifer said
G_7WPVHi1CE-01767-00401144-00401343 that they're they're oftentimes very
G_7WPVHi1CE-01768-00401344-00401591 very well meaning and intentioned and in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01769-00401592-00401934 some sense i'm unfamiliar with these
G_7WPVHi1CE-01770-00401935-00402206 deeper issues um in history so they're
G_7WPVHi1CE-01771-00402207-00402367 they're they're enamored by the beauty
G_7WPVHi1CE-01772-00402368-00402606 of the of the algorithm the mathematics
G_7WPVHi1CE-01773-00402607-00402799 that you know what it can do
G_7WPVHi1CE-01774-00402800-00402902 and so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01775-00402903-00403087 you know not that they're doing this out
G_7WPVHi1CE-01776-00403088-00403206 of a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01777-00403207-00403527 malevolent intent but how so how can we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01778-00403528-00403727 sort of peel that apart and say here
G_7WPVHi1CE-01779-00403728-00403854 let's take this rather than sort of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01780-00403855-00404110 condemn it but let's you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01781-00404111-00404375 change it and and examine it in a way
G_7WPVHi1CE-01782-00404376-00404519 that we can all
G_7WPVHi1CE-01783-00404520-00404678 benefit because i think that's a way i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01784-00404679-00404830 would say i would offer that's that's a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01785-00404831-00405078 way to reach my colleagues
G_7WPVHi1CE-01786-00405079-00405319 in in a good way in a sense of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01787-00405320-00405751 more engagement um does that make sense
G_7WPVHi1CE-01788-00405752-00405927 i think it makes a ton of sense and and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01789-00405928-00406143 i i think in terms of this broader
G_7WPVHi1CE-01790-00406144-00406319 question about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01791-00406320-00406558 so i first of all completely agree with
G_7WPVHi1CE-01792-00406559-00406647 you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01793-00406648-00406799 um and i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01794-00406800-00407110 i also think
G_7WPVHi1CE-01795-00407111-00407278 social scientists and humanities people
G_7WPVHi1CE-01796-00407279-00407487 need to look at technology more and look
G_7WPVHi1CE-01797-00407488-00407623 at engineering more and there's been
G_7WPVHi1CE-01798-00407624-00407758 plenty of art historians that i've gone
G_7WPVHi1CE-01799-00407759-00407910 to and said like you should be looking
G_7WPVHi1CE-01800-00407911-00408030 at computer vision they're like oh i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01801-00408031-00408263 don't do technology like it isn't just
G_7WPVHi1CE-01802-00408264-00408423 technology there's all this other stuff
G_7WPVHi1CE-01803-00408424-00408582 going on in there too there's images you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01804-00408583-00408767 know there's ways of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01805-00408768-00408902 interpretation this is all stuff that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01806-00408903-00409182 you know how to do but you but to we got
G_7WPVHi1CE-01807-00409183-00409430 to look at what the society is now so we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01808-00409431-00409639 look in this broader context
G_7WPVHi1CE-01809-00409639-00409847 i think that you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01810-00409847-00410022 to bring it back to jennifer's
G_7WPVHi1CE-01811-00410023-00410247 provocation about pedagogy
G_7WPVHi1CE-01812-00410247-00410439 i think that's really hard you know like
G_7WPVHi1CE-01813-00410439-00410687 i don't like i literally have like
G_7WPVHi1CE-01814-00410688-00410951 terminal degrees in art and social
G_7WPVHi1CE-01815-00410952-00411143 science i can't
G_7WPVHi1CE-01816-00411143-00411351 have that level of expertise on the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01817-00411352-00411582 technology and engineering side as well
G_7WPVHi1CE-01818-00411583-00411895 so in terms of how do you create a
G_7WPVHi1CE-01819-00411896-00412222 pedagogical platform that that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01820-00412223-00412503 much more blended and with critical
G_7WPVHi1CE-01821-00412504-00412751 thinking and technology is a really hard
G_7WPVHi1CE-01822-00412752-00412910 question and a really
G_7WPVHi1CE-01823-00412912-00413047 urgent one
G_7WPVHi1CE-01824-00413047-00413174 um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01825-00413175-00413399 but yeah i would love to hear
G_7WPVHi1CE-01826-00413400-00413622 people's thoughts on that it's it's it's
G_7WPVHi1CE-01827-00413623-00413807 something that it's very challenging i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01828-00413808-00414118 think
G_7WPVHi1CE-01829-00414119-00414374 there's a point that i um i was trying
G_7WPVHi1CE-01830-00414375-00414670 to make in my comments
G_7WPVHi1CE-01831-00414671-00414934 which is is perhaps a point that people
G_7WPVHi1CE-01832-00414935-00415174 often lose you know because they are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01833-00415175-00415334 thinking about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01834-00415335-00415534 sort of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01835-00415535-00415782 how to change design and how to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01836-00415783-00416039 transform design but you know we should
G_7WPVHi1CE-01837-00416039-00416334 always ask ourselves the question
G_7WPVHi1CE-01838-00416335-00416566 what are the social and political
G_7WPVHi1CE-01839-00416567-00416734 conditions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01840-00416735-00416863 under which
G_7WPVHi1CE-01841-00416864-00417278 the need for algorithm arise arises
G_7WPVHi1CE-01842-00417279-00417470 right
G_7WPVHi1CE-01843-00417471-00417647 and i was thinking actually perhaps it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01844-00417647-00417910 was not clear but uh and i was thinking
G_7WPVHi1CE-01845-00417912-00418166 of the book by virginia eubanks which is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01846-00418167-00418422 on algorithms used for you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01847-00418423-00418663 the management of poverty
G_7WPVHi1CE-01848-00418664-00418887 in a universal healthcare system you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01849-00418888-00419110 don't need an algorithm to decide who is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01850-00419112-00419303 eligible right
G_7WPVHi1CE-01851-00419304-00419470 in a system where you have a lot of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01852-00419471-00419655 public housing you don't need an
G_7WPVHi1CE-01853-00419656-00419870 algorithm who needs to decide you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01854-00419871-00420135 who's going to get that apartment right
G_7WPVHi1CE-01855-00420135-00420399 so you know you have to have that sort
G_7WPVHi1CE-01856-00420400-00420703 of broader conversation about what kind
G_7WPVHi1CE-01857-00420704-00420999 of society do you want to live in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01858-00421000-00421222 right and what kind of solidarities do
G_7WPVHi1CE-01859-00421223-00421375 you want to build
G_7WPVHi1CE-01860-00421376-00421575 so that you know the need to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01861-00421576-00421791 differentiate between those who are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01862-00421792-00422039 deserving and undeserving doesn't arise
G_7WPVHi1CE-01863-00422039-00422191 so it doesn't solve all you know there
G_7WPVHi1CE-01864-00422192-00422366 are plenty of other algorithms that will
G_7WPVHi1CE-01865-00422367-00422679 be necessary but at least that you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01866-00422680-00422831 and i think that's a very important
G_7WPVHi1CE-01867-00422832-00423263 conversation to have not simply
G_7WPVHi1CE-01868-00423264-00423543 including in places like engineering
G_7WPVHi1CE-01869-00423543-00423647 right
G_7WPVHi1CE-01870-00423647-00423910 because it's about you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01871-00423912-00424222 the algorithm is is is just
G_7WPVHi1CE-01872-00424223-00424431 coming on top of a system that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01873-00424432-00424622 fundamentally problematic
G_7WPVHi1CE-01874-00424623-00424727 right
G_7WPVHi1CE-01875-00424728-00424831 so that's
G_7WPVHi1CE-01876-00424832-00425118 the point that i think
G_7WPVHi1CE-01877-00425119-00425335 you can make yeah marielle when you say
G_7WPVHi1CE-01878-00425335-00425535 that the technical part of me
G_7WPVHi1CE-01879-00425535-00425775 immediately goes to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01880-00425776-00426039 trying to put in something
G_7WPVHi1CE-01881-00426039-00426222 i'm i'm sorry because that's what i try
G_7WPVHi1CE-01882-00426223-00426463 to do somebody else might try to capture
G_7WPVHi1CE-01883-00426464-00426695 it visually and i'm
G_7WPVHi1CE-01884-00426696-00426783 but
G_7WPVHi1CE-01885-00426784-00427159 it it goes to um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01886-00427160-00427255 how
G_7WPVHi1CE-01887-00427256-00427543 how would i put the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01888-00427543-00427687 the um
G_7WPVHi1CE-01889-00427688-00428047 impact of this decision we do not i
G_7WPVHi1CE-01890-00428047-00428391 think in our algorithms
G_7WPVHi1CE-01891-00428392-00428639 take into account the impact
G_7WPVHi1CE-01892-00428639-00428903 of the decision but that could be and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01893-00428904-00429159 it's conversations like this that would
G_7WPVHi1CE-01894-00429160-00429455 enable it right it's talking it's
G_7WPVHi1CE-01895-00429456-00429679 algorithms people talking to people like
G_7WPVHi1CE-01896-00429680-00429827 you we're not gonna
G_7WPVHi1CE-01897-00429828-00430110 fundamentally change the way this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01898-00430112-00430247 society
G_7WPVHi1CE-01899-00430247-00430503 allocates or doesn't allocate resources
G_7WPVHi1CE-01900-00430504-00430751 by you and i having a discussion
G_7WPVHi1CE-01901-00430752-00430935 but we can
G_7WPVHi1CE-01902-00430935-00431207 try to quantify in the algorithm what is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01903-00431208-00431447 the impact of these decisions there are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01904-00431447-00431679 decisions that are huge there are bail
G_7WPVHi1CE-01905-00431680-00431927 decisions there are housing decisions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01906-00431928-00432159 there are loan decisions there are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01907-00432160-00432383 medical decisions and there are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01908-00432384-00432735 decisions that are of lesser import and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01909-00432735-00432910 somehow
G_7WPVHi1CE-01910-00432912-00433070 we use
G_7WPVHi1CE-01911-00433071-00433479 the same set of criteria on all of them
G_7WPVHi1CE-01912-00433480-00433766 in many ways we don't i mean this should
G_7WPVHi1CE-01913-00433767-00433839 be
G_7WPVHi1CE-01914-00433839-00434110 one of the first things that we teach
G_7WPVHi1CE-01915-00434112-00434391 students we should have a way of looking
G_7WPVHi1CE-01916-00434392-00434703 at this and saying what are the impacts
G_7WPVHi1CE-01917-00434704-00434943 of these decisions so these are the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01918-00434943-00435166 kinds of questions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01919-00435167-00435479 that we need to be posing and by the way
G_7WPVHi1CE-01920-00435480-00435727 a few of you talked about history and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01921-00435728-00436014 that piece of our data science major
G_7WPVHi1CE-01922-00436015-00436118 is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01923-00436119-00436503 historical context and ethics so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01924-00436504-00436759 you know the historical context is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01925-00436760-00436903 incredibly
G_7WPVHi1CE-01926-00436904-00437063 important in this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01927-00437064-00437399 so also what is the impact of it and how
G_7WPVHi1CE-01928-00437400-00437687 has that played out in the past you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01929-00437688-00437927 how how have those kinds of decisions
G_7WPVHi1CE-01930-00437928-00438183 played out in the past so i think it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01931-00438184-00438310 essential
G_7WPVHi1CE-01932-00438312-00438670 that we'd be having these conversations
G_7WPVHi1CE-01933-00438671-00438887 we are honestly i know i keep coming
G_7WPVHi1CE-01934-00438888-00439166 back to this and i sound like but we are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01935-00439167-00439391 building this college
G_7WPVHi1CE-01936-00439392-00439518 to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01937-00439519-00439863 enable these conversations
G_7WPVHi1CE-01938-00439864-00439943 for
G_7WPVHi1CE-01939-00439943-00440263 to to be able to bring the relevant
G_7WPVHi1CE-01940-00440264-00440583 uh researchers together but also for the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01941-00440584-00440799 students to feel it
G_7WPVHi1CE-01942-00440800-00440991 thank you so so let me get back to kate
G_7WPVHi1CE-01943-00440992-00441231 so you know can you comment on this this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01944-00441232-00441447 point because we're we're talking about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01945-00441447-00441687 about i i love marion's phrase
G_7WPVHi1CE-01946-00441688-00441887 algorithms allocate
G_7WPVHi1CE-01947-00441888-00442070 and so that algorithms are almost by
G_7WPVHi1CE-01948-00442071-00442375 inten by by definition about making
G_7WPVHi1CE-01949-00442376-00442631 difference and marian to my ear is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01950-00442632-00442903 making a call to unification of of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01951-00442904-00443070 smoothing differences and yet
G_7WPVHi1CE-01952-00443071-00443255 differences are important we know that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01953-00443256-00443543 and and that we want individualism and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01954-00443543-00443751 and it's in one extreme we want the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01955-00443752-00444014 freedom to be uh to be able to to
G_7WPVHi1CE-01956-00444015-00444279 differentiate ourselves from the norm
G_7WPVHi1CE-01957-00444280-00444527 from the from the comments how how do
G_7WPVHi1CE-01958-00444528-00444751 you feel about this this this this thing
G_7WPVHi1CE-01959-00444752-00444887 because in fact one of the things we're
G_7WPVHi1CE-01960-00444888-00444999 just even talking about is the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01961-00445000-00445207 differences between disciplines
G_7WPVHi1CE-01962-00445208-00445375 and i'm saying i'm making another
G_7WPVHi1CE-01963-00445376-00445575 difference because calling out my you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01964-00445576-00445766 know this difference between scientists
G_7WPVHi1CE-01965-00445767-00446007 and and artists etc so
G_7WPVHi1CE-01966-00446008-00446191 you know are we guilty of these same
G_7WPVHi1CE-01967-00446192-00446439 things and how how do you feel about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01968-00446439-00446614 this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01969-00446615-00446727 and i think you said something
G_7WPVHi1CE-01970-00446728-00446999 incredibly important that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-01971-00447000-00447247 sometimes getting lost i think in this
G_7WPVHi1CE-01972-00447247-00447407 in this sort of debate specifically
G_7WPVHi1CE-01973-00447408-00447718 around ai's wider impacts which is you
G_7WPVHi1CE-01974-00447719-00447895 know how are we going to build
G_7WPVHi1CE-01975-00447896-00448135 coalitions to change the way things are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01976-00448135-00448366 done and i think you're right that
G_7WPVHi1CE-01977-00448367-00448551 there's this tendency to become a kind
G_7WPVHi1CE-01978-00448552-00448791 of engineers versus everybody else which
G_7WPVHi1CE-01979-00448792-00449039 is incredibly dangerous and i think not
G_7WPVHi1CE-01980-00449039-00449295 necessary because so many of the
G_7WPVHi1CE-01981-00449296-00449518 the points around how do we think about
G_7WPVHi1CE-01982-00449519-00449679 social scoring in terms of how do we
G_7WPVHi1CE-01983-00449680-00449918 think about allocation have also been
G_7WPVHi1CE-01984-00449919-00450095 made by engineers i'm thinking here of
G_7WPVHi1CE-01985-00450096-00450279 some of the sort of founding figures in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01986-00450280-00450527 ai people like joseph weisenbaum who
G_7WPVHi1CE-01987-00450528-00450743 were engineers and political thinkers
G_7WPVHi1CE-01988-00450743-00450910 marshall franklin who was a physicist
G_7WPVHi1CE-01989-00450912-00451079 and wrote some of the most extraordinary
G_7WPVHi1CE-01990-00451080-00451255 work thinking about the wider
G_7WPVHi1CE-01991-00451256-00451495 implications of what we build so i and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01992-00451496-00451743 what i'm seeing also i have to say in
G_7WPVHi1CE-01993-00451743-00451959 the new generation of students who are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01994-00451960-00452135 you know currently undergraduates and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01995-00452135-00452351 early level graduates in engineering and
G_7WPVHi1CE-01996-00452352-00452551 computer science is that they are asking
G_7WPVHi1CE-01997-00452552-00452710 these questions you know that they are
G_7WPVHi1CE-01998-00452712-00452879 they are not feeling as though you know
G_7WPVHi1CE-01999-00452880-00453007 they're the ones who are just creating
G_7WPVHi1CE-02000-00453008-00453199 systems and everybody else is is doing
G_7WPVHi1CE-02001-00453200-00453399 the kind of critical political work
G_7WPVHi1CE-02002-00453400-00453663 there is a sea change coming and it is
G_7WPVHi1CE-02003-00453664-00453935 very much built into what is already
G_7WPVHi1CE-02004-00453935-00454063 happening with the students who are
G_7WPVHi1CE-02005-00454064-00454327 joining us on campuses so that to me is
G_7WPVHi1CE-02006-00454328-00454583 incredibly exciting but i think marion
G_7WPVHi1CE-02007-00454584-00454791 is is is pointing to this other question
G_7WPVHi1CE-02008-00454792-00455007 right which is how do we think about
G_7WPVHi1CE-02009-00455008-00455247 why it is that algorithms are brought in
G_7WPVHi1CE-02010-00455247-00455566 to address fundamental broken social
G_7WPVHi1CE-02011-00455567-00455710 systems and
G_7WPVHi1CE-02012-00455712-00455887 married i mean you're speaking to my
G_7WPVHi1CE-02013-00455888-00456047 heart here as somebody who again is an
G_7WPVHi1CE-02014-00456047-00456255 immigrant to the united states but is is
G_7WPVHi1CE-02015-00456256-00456447 you know was raised in a universal
G_7WPVHi1CE-02016-00456447-00456599 health care system to see the
G_7WPVHi1CE-02017-00456600-00456783 differences of what happens without that
G_7WPVHi1CE-02018-00456784-00457055 and the way that that has so profoundly
G_7WPVHi1CE-02019-00457056-00457207 skewed and broken the american
G_7WPVHi1CE-02020-00457208-00457366 healthcare system and the way that
G_7WPVHi1CE-02021-00457367-00457527 algorithms being brought in as though
G_7WPVHi1CE-02022-00457528-00457663 this is going to be a way we can
G_7WPVHi1CE-02023-00457664-00457935 reallocate it's it's horrifying because
G_7WPVHi1CE-02024-00457935-00458127 again we're building on the shifting
G_7WPVHi1CE-02025-00458128-00458375 sands of data that is telling us these
G_7WPVHi1CE-02026-00458376-00458543 stories of inequality
G_7WPVHi1CE-02027-00458543-00458775 so you've you've really for me pointed
G_7WPVHi1CE-02028-00458776-00458966 to something that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-02029-00458967-00459214 possibly the most important part of of
G_7WPVHi1CE-02030-00459215-00459487 the project as i see it going forward
G_7WPVHi1CE-02031-00459488-00459743 which is that we can no longer look to
G_7WPVHi1CE-02032-00459743-00460070 these questions as how do we tinker with
G_7WPVHi1CE-02033-00460071-00460351 an algorithm to make it more fair how
G_7WPVHi1CE-02034-00460352-00460655 can we carve out some minor privacy
G_7WPVHi1CE-02035-00460656-00460935 protection from a sense of inevitable
G_7WPVHi1CE-02036-00460935-00461166 expansion of all things into sort of
G_7WPVHi1CE-02037-00461167-00461351 machine learning terrains
G_7WPVHi1CE-02038-00461352-00461566 i think the much deeper question is is
G_7WPVHi1CE-02039-00461567-00461847 this one this this idea of how do we
G_7WPVHi1CE-02040-00461847-00462055 want to live and where are our existing
G_7WPVHi1CE-02041-00462056-00462239 social systems falling apart these
G_7WPVHi1CE-02042-00462239-00462399 infrastructural questions that you've
G_7WPVHi1CE-02043-00462400-00462663 pointed to um and for me that's part of
G_7WPVHi1CE-02044-00462664-00462918 that is actually de-centering technology
G_7WPVHi1CE-02045-00462919-00463127 altogether that so many of these
G_7WPVHi1CE-02046-00463128-00463303 questions are actually not technological
G_7WPVHi1CE-02047-00463304-00463455 questions and should not even be put in
G_7WPVHi1CE-02048-00463456-00463710 that domain and should in fact be social
G_7WPVHi1CE-02049-00463712-00463983 questions first and then and only then
G_7WPVHi1CE-02050-00463984-00464118 should we be thinking about whether or
G_7WPVHi1CE-02051-00464119-00464503 not there's a technical application
G_7WPVHi1CE-02052-00464504-00464759 that is a wonderful note to conclude on
G_7WPVHi1CE-02053-00464760-00465079 kate i think that is perfectly sums up
G_7WPVHi1CE-02054-00465080-00465327 what we have
G_7WPVHi1CE-02055-00465328-00465687 this discussion more broadly and to to
G_7WPVHi1CE-02056-00465688-00465903 put it into the context of some some
G_7WPVHi1CE-02057-00465904-00466014 bigger
G_7WPVHi1CE-02058-00466015-00466279 conundrum that we have we have been
G_7WPVHi1CE-02059-00466280-00466487 struggling with as a as a culture that
G_7WPVHi1CE-02060-00466488-00466703 we struggle with today with the the
G_7WPVHi1CE-02061-00466704-00466839 state of the world
G_7WPVHi1CE-02062-00466839-00467087 and what's happening is that we we we
G_7WPVHi1CE-02063-00467088-00467255 want to draw differences it's
G_7WPVHi1CE-02064-00467256-00467375 instinctive
G_7WPVHi1CE-02065-00467376-00467622 that that that quest for
G_7WPVHi1CE-02066-00467623-00468014 for knowledge and is is is is built into
G_7WPVHi1CE-02067-00468015-00468279 us and and so we are going to want to
G_7WPVHi1CE-02068-00468280-00468543 understand to tease things apart and at
G_7WPVHi1CE-02069-00468543-00468775 the same time there that can be
G_7WPVHi1CE-02070-00468776-00468999 incredibly dangerous and there's
G_7WPVHi1CE-02071-00469000-00469327 incredible consequences so um so i just
G_7WPVHi1CE-02072-00469328-00469447 want to say
G_7WPVHi1CE-02073-00469447-00470007 it's a final statement here
G_7WPVHi1CE-02074-00470008-00470143 thank you all
G_7WPVHi1CE-02075-00470143-00470663 for a wonderful panel
G_7WPVHi1CE-02076-00470664-00471207 perfect finish again
G_7WPVHi1CE-02077-00471208-00471543 ah
G_7WPVHi1CE-02078-00471543-00471663 that is
G_7WPVHi1CE-02079-00471664-00471775 just
G_7WPVHi1CE-02080-00471776-00472123 yes absolutely
GACIl1Do7Du-00000-00000008-00000318 okay if not we shall move on to the next
GACIl1Do7Du-00001-00000319-00000407 talk
GACIl1Do7Du-00002-00000408-00000534 um
GACIl1Do7Du-00003-00000535-00000878 dr claudio are you
GACIl1Do7Du-00004-00000880-00001127 wonderful i'd like to introduce um
GACIl1Do7Du-00005-00001128-00001431 professor claudio casado from the
GACIl1Do7Du-00006-00001432-00001687 university of turin in italy for your
GACIl1Do7Du-00007-00001688-00001847 presentation and thank you for joining
GACIl1Do7Du-00008-00001848-00002399 us at such an ungodly hour for you
GACIl1Do7Du-00009-00002400-00002687 good morning my name is claudio castado
GACIl1Do7Du-00010-00002688-00002918 from the department of physics of the
GACIl1Do7Du-00011-00002919-00003118 university of torino
GACIl1Do7Du-00012-00003119-00003390 i will present the work performed with
GACIl1Do7Du-00013-00003392-00003751 my collaborators title is climatology of
GACIl1Do7Du-00014-00003752-00004015 some surface layer and soil variables in
GACIl1Do7Du-00015-00004015-00004295 northern italy using non-surface model
GACIl1Do7Du-00016-00004296-00004535 utopia
GACIl1Do7Du-00017-00004536-00004838 recently the importance of surface layer
GACIl1Do7Du-00018-00004839-00005135 processes specifically energy and
GACIl1Do7Du-00019-00005136-00005343 hydrological budgets
GACIl1Do7Du-00020-00005344-00005591 was recognized by the scientific
GACIl1Do7Du-00021-00005592-00005918 community also for climate
GACIl1Do7Du-00022-00005919-00006191 since observation don't allow
GACIl1Do7Du-00023-00006192-00006606 to create a climatological database it
GACIl1Do7Du-00024-00006608-00006878 is possible to use the outputs of a
GACIl1Do7Du-00025-00006879-00007159 trusted land surface model as a server
GACIl1Do7Du-00026-00007159-00007263 guide
GACIl1Do7Du-00027-00007264-00007542 in this work we have analyzed the some
GACIl1Do7Du-00028-00007543-00007831 fundamental variables in the surface
GACIl1Do7Du-00029-00007831-00008134 layer and in the soil using the utopia
GACIl1Do7Du-00030-00008136-00008483 model which i will present
GACIl1Do7Du-00031-00008484-00008646 later
GACIl1Do7Du-00032-00008647-00008910 and the domain involved with the most of
GACIl1Do7Du-00033-00008911-00009214 the alps region and the italian
GACIl1Do7Du-00034-00009215-00009342 valley
GACIl1Do7Du-00035-00009343-00009710 the utopia outputs were also compared
GACIl1Do7Du-00036-00009711-00009863 with the
GACIl1Do7Du-00037-00009864-00010110 output of the noaa multiphysic land
GACIl1Do7Du-00038-00010111-00010414 surface models
GACIl1Do7Du-00039-00010415-00010678 this is the utopia model university of
GACIl1Do7Du-00040-00010679-00010991 torino model of land process interaction
GACIl1Do7Du-00041-00010992-00011255 with atmosphere the domain can be
GACIl1Do7Du-00042-00011256-00011551 considered separated in three different
GACIl1Do7Du-00043-00011552-00011791 layers the atmosphere above the
GACIl1Do7Du-00044-00011792-00012063 vegetation the layer including the
GACIl1Do7Du-00045-00012064-00012327 vegetation and the soil
GACIl1Do7Du-00046-00012328-00012670 vegetation and soil are described by
GACIl1Do7Du-00047-00012671-00012863 several parameters
GACIl1Do7Du-00048-00012863-00013127 here they are listed for vegetation and
GACIl1Do7Du-00049-00013128-00013366 here they are listed for the soil
GACIl1Do7Du-00050-00013368-00013686 regarding the snow the model considers
GACIl1Do7Du-00051-00013687-00013983 the single layer approximation
GACIl1Do7Du-00052-00013984-00014366 the observation to drive the model
GACIl1Do7Du-00053-00014368-00014551 need the data
GACIl1Do7Du-00054-00014552-00014927 every hour at least data temperature
GACIl1Do7Du-00055-00014928-00015279 humidity pressure and the wind
GACIl1Do7Du-00056-00015280-00015575 cloud cover long wave and short wave
GACIl1Do7Du-00057-00015576-00015983 radiation and precipitation
GACIl1Do7Du-00058-00015984-00016222 we have extracted the data from the
GACIl1Do7Du-00059-00016223-00016622 global land data assimilation system
GACIl1Do7Du-00060-00016623-00016894 which is a database produced by nasa
GACIl1Do7Du-00061-00016895-00017055 gsfc
GACIl1Do7Du-00062-00017056-00017286 noaa and then chapter
GACIl1Do7Du-00063-00017287-00017535 and two versions are available we have
GACIl1Do7Du-00064-00017536-00017839 used the version 2.0 because it
GACIl1Do7Du-00065-00017840-00018175 contained a very large database in time
GACIl1Do7Du-00066-00018176-00018583 from 1948 to 2014
GACIl1Do7Du-00067-00018584-00018839 the time resolution is three hours so
GACIl1Do7Du-00068-00018840-00019222 the space resolution is 0.25 degree in
GACIl1Do7Du-00069-00019223-00019439 latitude and longitude
GACIl1Do7Du-00070-00019440-00019630 and we have
GACIl1Do7Du-00071-00019631-00019935 interpolated the data in order to have a
GACIl1Do7Du-00072-00019936-00020143 temporal rate of about
GACIl1Do7Du-00073-00020144-00020430 of 30 minutes
GACIl1Do7Du-00074-00020431-00020711 this is the domain we are used
GACIl1Do7Du-00075-00020712-00021007 that contain the herbs here and the
GACIl1Do7Du-00076-00021008-00021278 poverty region that is this
GACIl1Do7Du-00077-00021279-00021399 plane
GACIl1Do7Du-00078-00021400-00021639 in the north italy and this is the
GACIl1Do7Du-00079-00021640-00021863 number of grid we have considered in
GACIl1Do7Du-00080-00021864-00022103 this study we have a random topic of
GACIl1Do7Du-00081-00022104-00022519 every land grid
GACIl1Do7Du-00082-00022520-00022839 output data of utopia are several but we
GACIl1Do7Du-00083-00022840-00023119 have considered just this one that
GACIl1Do7Du-00084-00023120-00023358 radiation sensible and later deflects
GACIl1Do7Du-00085-00023359-00023647 and conducted reflux for the energy
GACIl1Do7Du-00086-00023648-00023783 budget
GACIl1Do7Du-00087-00023784-00024030 precipitation evapotranspiration and
GACIl1Do7Du-00088-00024031-00024278 surface runoff for the hydrological
GACIl1Do7Du-00089-00024279-00024391 budget
GACIl1Do7Du-00090-00024392-00024671 soil temperature and the moisture
GACIl1Do7Du-00091-00024672-00024886 in the first
GACIl1Do7Du-00092-00024887-00025142 five centimeter of soil
GACIl1Do7Du-00093-00025143-00025550 for describing the soil barriers
GACIl1Do7Du-00094-00025551-00025711 in this domain
GACIl1Do7Du-00095-00025712-00025806 this
GACIl1Do7Du-00096-00025807-00026150 soil texture type were
GACIl1Do7Du-00097-00026151-00026318 being considered
GACIl1Do7Du-00098-00026319-00026479 and this
GACIl1Do7Du-00099-00026480-00026758 type of land use has been considered
GACIl1Do7Du-00100-00026760-00027031 here there is the distribution of
GACIl1Do7Du-00101-00027032-00027279 all these vegetation types which contain
GACIl1Do7Du-00102-00027280-00027574 a forest short grass crops
GACIl1Do7Du-00103-00027575-00027774 and the mixed
GACIl1Do7Du-00104-00027775-00028007 vegetation
GACIl1Do7Du-00105-00028008-00028111 and
GACIl1Do7Du-00106-00028112-00028358 considering elevation
GACIl1Do7Du-00107-00028360-00028702 soil texture and vegetation type
GACIl1Do7Du-00108-00028704-00029046 we have been able to group
GACIl1Do7Du-00109-00029047-00029223 the grid points in
GACIl1Do7Du-00110-00029224-00029495 into 18 classes
GACIl1Do7Du-00111-00029495-00029887 in which the first six refer to plane
GACIl1Do7Du-00112-00029888-00030031 areas
GACIl1Do7Du-00113-00030032-00030455 the classes from 10 to 18 refer to the
GACIl1Do7Du-00114-00030456-00030623 medium mountain
GACIl1Do7Du-00115-00030624-00030967 and the classes from 7 to 9 refer to
GACIl1Do7Du-00116-00030968-00031167 high mounting
GACIl1Do7Du-00117-00031168-00031399 in the following i will
GACIl1Do7Du-00118-00031400-00031758 just show you some results because it's
GACIl1Do7Du-00119-00031760-00032070 impossible to show all the results
GACIl1Do7Du-00120-00032072-00032327 regarding the soil layer discretization
GACIl1Do7Du-00121-00032327-00032567 we have considered the several soil
GACIl1Do7Du-00122-00032568-00032687 layers
GACIl1Do7Du-00123-00032688-00032999 for a total soil depth of 30 meter we
GACIl1Do7Du-00124-00033000-00033399 have used so large soil depth because we
GACIl1Do7Du-00125-00033400-00033662 were considering simulation for a very
GACIl1Do7Du-00126-00033663-00033902 long time
GACIl1Do7Du-00127-00033903-00034118 initial values have been
GACIl1Do7Du-00128-00034119-00034390 calculated using this formulation in
GACIl1Do7Du-00129-00034391-00034679 which soil temperature and soil moisture
GACIl1Do7Du-00130-00034680-00035015 depend on observation of air temperature
GACIl1Do7Du-00131-00035016-00035374 and the relative humidity
GACIl1Do7Du-00132-00035375-00035846 this uh the main result in this graph
GACIl1Do7Du-00133-00035847-00036207 black line indicates net radiation
GACIl1Do7Du-00134-00036208-00036567 green line indicator latent reflux red
GACIl1Do7Du-00135-00036568-00036862 line sensible reflux and blue line
GACIl1Do7Du-00136-00036863-00037062 conducted with flux
GACIl1Do7Du-00137-00037063-00037279 in the left we have two
GACIl1Do7Du-00138-00037280-00037590 grid points corresponding to plane area
GACIl1Do7Du-00139-00037591-00037895 and the long soil in the
GACIl1Do7Du-00140-00037896-00038246 right part we have a mountain in the top
GACIl1Do7Du-00141-00038247-00038615 and high mountain in the bottom
GACIl1Do7Du-00142-00038616-00039023 generally we can see that net radiation
GACIl1Do7Du-00143-00039024-00039311 maximum occur in summer
GACIl1Do7Du-00144-00039312-00039646 as well as a latent flux maximum but
GACIl1Do7Du-00145-00039647-00039759 usually
GACIl1Do7Du-00146-00039760-00039999 in a planar latent reflux is
GACIl1Do7Du-00147-00040000-00040215 anticipating the maximum of net
GACIl1Do7Du-00148-00040216-00040527 radiation while in high mountain the
GACIl1Do7Du-00149-00040528-00040943 latent deflux maximum is occurring 10
GACIl1Do7Du-00150-00040944-00041215 days later than the net radiation
GACIl1Do7Du-00151-00041216-00041439 maximum
GACIl1Do7Du-00152-00041440-00041735 here it is very evident to the effect of
GACIl1Do7Du-00153-00041736-00042118 the snow cover so the flux remain near
GACIl1Do7Du-00154-00042119-00042318 zero for
GACIl1Do7Du-00155-00042319-00042646 all the spring and start increasing
GACIl1Do7Du-00156-00042647-00043030 since april in medium mountain and since
GACIl1Do7Du-00157-00043031-00043302 may in a high mountain
GACIl1Do7Du-00158-00043303-00043662 conductive reflux is always small in the
GACIl1Do7Du-00159-00043663-00043774 plane
GACIl1Do7Du-00160-00043775-00044055 while in the mountain high mountain
GACIl1Do7Du-00161-00044056-00044311 there is the peak corresponding to the
GACIl1Do7Du-00162-00044312-00044567 snowmelt
GACIl1Do7Du-00163-00044568-00044839 this is a hydrological budget in the
GACIl1Do7Du-00164-00044840-00045127 same degree point of the previous one
GACIl1Do7Du-00165-00045128-00045527 p black line is precipitation etr red
GACIl1Do7Du-00166-00045528-00045635 line is
GACIl1Do7Du-00167-00045636-00045895 evapotranspiration and surface runoff it
GACIl1Do7Du-00168-00045896-00046062 is the blue line
GACIl1Do7Du-00169-00046063-00046215 in the plane
GACIl1Do7Du-00170-00046216-00046455 it is possible to see that
GACIl1Do7Du-00171-00046456-00046727 the maximum of precipitation occurs
GACIl1Do7Du-00172-00046728-00047046 generally in autumn while in mountain
GACIl1Do7Du-00173-00047047-00047230 and high mountain the maximum of
GACIl1Do7Du-00174-00047231-00047551 precipitation occur in summer
GACIl1Do7Du-00175-00047552-00047799 regarding evapotranspiration
GACIl1Do7Du-00176-00047800-00047902 it is
GACIl1Do7Du-00177-00047903-00048158 exceeding precipitation in the plane
GACIl1Do7Du-00178-00048159-00048318 during summer
GACIl1Do7Du-00179-00048319-00048558 and never in the mountain and high
GACIl1Do7Du-00180-00048559-00048671 mountain
GACIl1Do7Du-00181-00048672-00048911 surface runoff is following
GACIl1Do7Du-00182-00048912-00049158 precipitation in the plane while in
GACIl1Do7Du-00183-00049159-00049351 mountain and high mountain there is a
GACIl1Do7Du-00184-00049352-00049535 very large peak
GACIl1Do7Du-00185-00049536-00049735 in the period in which there is a snow
GACIl1Do7Du-00186-00049736-00049839 melting
GACIl1Do7Du-00187-00049840-00050055 of course the peak is
GACIl1Do7Du-00188-00050056-00050335 later in high mountain because no
GACIl1Do7Du-00189-00050336-00050486 melting occurs
GACIl1Do7Du-00190-00050487-00050711 later
GACIl1Do7Du-00191-00050712-00050943 this is a soil temperature at five
GACIl1Do7Du-00192-00050944-00051335 centimeter still in plain left mountain
GACIl1Do7Du-00193-00051336-00051558 high mountain in the right
GACIl1Do7Du-00194-00051559-00051863 generally speaking we can see that
GACIl1Do7Du-00195-00051864-00052038 in the planet there is the typical
GACIl1Do7Du-00196-00052039-00052294 annual cycle with the maximum in the
GACIl1Do7Du-00197-00052295-00052566 summer and the minimum in winter
GACIl1Do7Du-00198-00052567-00052935 while in mountain high mountain also but
GACIl1Do7Du-00199-00052936-00053175 during the spring there is a very large
GACIl1Do7Du-00200-00053176-00053399 period in which temperature is almost
GACIl1Do7Du-00201-00053400-00053511 constant
GACIl1Do7Du-00202-00053512-00053830 and for four and or five months
GACIl1Do7Du-00203-00053832-00054063 temperature remain very close to zero
GACIl1Do7Du-00204-00054064-00054366 degree evenly now i'm mounting this is
GACIl1Do7Du-00205-00054367-00054991 the protection effect of the snow
GACIl1Do7Du-00206-00054991-00055287 this is a soil moisture actually it is
GACIl1Do7Du-00207-00055288-00055559 volumetric soil moisture content
GACIl1Do7Du-00208-00055560-00055879 cubic meter of water per cubic meter of
GACIl1Do7Du-00209-00055879-00056023 soil
GACIl1Do7Du-00210-00056024-00056230 also in this case there is the typical
GACIl1Do7Du-00211-00056232-00056463 annual cycle in the plane with the
GACIl1Do7Du-00212-00056464-00056799 minimum in late july and this value is
GACIl1Do7Du-00213-00056800-00057007 quite close to the
GACIl1Do7Du-00214-00057008-00057287 to the wilting point actually
GACIl1Do7Du-00215-00057288-00057535 for this kind of vegetation is not so
GACIl1Do7Du-00216-00057536-00057854 close to the melting point
GACIl1Do7Du-00217-00057855-00058111 in the mountain high mountain the
GACIl1Do7Du-00218-00058112-00058263 behavior is
GACIl1Do7Du-00219-00058264-00058535 more complicated because there is a very
GACIl1Do7Du-00220-00058536-00058687 large peak
GACIl1Do7Du-00221-00058688-00058935 which corresponds to the maximum value
GACIl1Do7Du-00222-00058936-00059126 in spring
GACIl1Do7Du-00223-00059127-00059375 just immediately after the beginning of
GACIl1Do7Du-00224-00059376-00059599 the snow melting
GACIl1Do7Du-00225-00059600-00059854 in summer there is a secondary peak in
GACIl1Do7Du-00226-00059855-00060094 july corresponding to the absolute
GACIl1Do7Du-00227-00060095-00060326 minimum in the plane
GACIl1Do7Du-00228-00060327-00060606 but there is a another
GACIl1Do7Du-00229-00060607-00060894 peak in in the autumn which is more
GACIl1Do7Du-00230-00060895-00061175 evident in high mountain and perhaps is
GACIl1Do7Du-00231-00061176-00061471 due to the melting of the first snow in
GACIl1Do7Du-00232-00061472-00061599 the next
GACIl1Do7Du-00233-00061600-00061815 winter season
GACIl1Do7Du-00234-00061816-00062175 during winter the value is the smallest
GACIl1Do7Du-00235-00062176-00062454 embossing in mountain in high mountain
GACIl1Do7Du-00236-00062455-00062615 but is not
GACIl1Do7Du-00237-00062616-00062791 going to zero
GACIl1Do7Du-00238-00062791-00063038 and this indicates that the
GACIl1Do7Du-00239-00063039-00063287 soil moisture is not freezing during
GACIl1Do7Du-00240-00063288-00063575 winter time also this is an evidence of
GACIl1Do7Du-00241-00063576-00063726 the protecting
GACIl1Do7Du-00242-00063727-00064047 effect of the snow
GACIl1Do7Du-00243-00064048-00064335 now i will show some result about the
GACIl1Do7Du-00244-00064336-00064671 comparison of utopia simulation with the
GACIl1Do7Du-00245-00064672-00065119 noaa simulation noaa data are contained
GACIl1Do7Du-00246-00065120-00065447 directly in the gel das database
GACIl1Do7Du-00247-00065448-00065782 so we have just extracted and compared i
GACIl1Do7Du-00248-00065783-00066071 show just one grid point
GACIl1Do7Du-00249-00066072-00066350 so the average of corresponding to the
GACIl1Do7Du-00250-00066351-00066806 solid type number eight which is klylon
GACIl1Do7Du-00251-00066807-00067055 this is for energy budget
GACIl1Do7Du-00252-00067056-00067294 generally if we compare the two
GACIl1Do7Du-00253-00067295-00067567 simulation we can see that
GACIl1Do7Du-00254-00067568-00067799 the time time of net radiation is quite
GACIl1Do7Du-00255-00067800-00067959 similar but
GACIl1Do7Du-00256-00067960-00068255 no value are a bit larger than utopia
GACIl1Do7Du-00257-00068256-00068406 values
GACIl1Do7Du-00258-00068407-00068687 regarding latent and sun symbolic flux
GACIl1Do7Du-00259-00068688-00068879 there is the largest difference
GACIl1Do7Du-00260-00068880-00069255 especially in july because of our utopia
GACIl1Do7Du-00261-00069256-00069519 in july there is a secondary minimum of
GACIl1Do7Du-00262-00069520-00069847 latent efflux while sensibly flux is
GACIl1Do7Du-00263-00069848-00070023 increasing very much
GACIl1Do7Du-00264-00070024-00070279 and during this month the two values are
GACIl1Do7Du-00265-00070280-00070487 quite similar while
GACIl1Do7Du-00266-00070488-00070719 for noaa
GACIl1Do7Du-00267-00070720-00070975 latency flux is always larger than
GACIl1Do7Du-00268-00070976-00071191 sensible red flux and the maximum of
GACIl1Do7Du-00269-00071192-00071511 sensible flux is occurring in august the
GACIl1Do7Du-00270-00071512-00071815 value is about 50 baht per square meter
GACIl1Do7Du-00271-00071816-00071975 compared to
GACIl1Do7Du-00272-00071976-00072238 about 70 bucks per square meter of the
GACIl1Do7Du-00273-00072239-00072375 maximum
GACIl1Do7Du-00274-00072376-00072662 for utopia
GACIl1Do7Du-00275-00072663-00072903 conducted with flux is quite similar
GACIl1Do7Du-00276-00072904-00073175 among the two model simulation
GACIl1Do7Du-00277-00073176-00073287 anyway
GACIl1Do7Du-00278-00073288-00073431 considering
GACIl1Do7Du-00279-00073432-00073926 the variability of the the simulation
GACIl1Do7Du-00280-00073927-00074215 in the different grid points we have
GACIl1Do7Du-00281-00074216-00074487 considered the average of 100 degrees
GACIl1Do7Du-00282-00074488-00074711 point for making these
GACIl1Do7Du-00283-00074712-00074823 values
GACIl1Do7Du-00284-00074824-00074991 we can say that
GACIl1Do7Du-00285-00074992-00075247 the two values of the two models are
GACIl1Do7Du-00286-00075248-00075399 compatible
GACIl1Do7Du-00287-00075400-00075591 this is for soil temperature and
GACIl1Do7Du-00288-00075592-00075735 moisture and
GACIl1Do7Du-00289-00075736-00075967 generally speaking soil temperature is
GACIl1Do7Du-00290-00075968-00076175 quite similar but the phototopia there
GACIl1Do7Du-00291-00076176-00076391 is a two degree
GACIl1Do7Du-00292-00076392-00076615 the soil is two degrees warmer with
GACIl1Do7Du-00293-00076616-00076887 respect to dawn in summer
GACIl1Do7Du-00294-00076888-00077071 regarding soil moisture also the
GACIl1Do7Du-00295-00077072-00077271 behavior is similar but
GACIl1Do7Du-00296-00077272-00077462 in utopia there is a difference in
GACIl1Do7Du-00297-00077463-00077782 spring because utopia soil moisture is
GACIl1Do7Du-00298-00077783-00078031 smaller than north oil moisture in
GACIl1Do7Du-00299-00078032-00078126 spring
GACIl1Do7Du-00300-00078127-00078471 while in summer utopia value is larger
GACIl1Do7Du-00301-00078472-00078762 than lower value no value arrived to
GACIl1Do7Du-00302-00078763-00079111 0.22 meters cubic meter per cubic meter
GACIl1Do7Du-00303-00079112-00079238 while the
GACIl1Do7Du-00304-00079239-00079615 utopia simulation arrived 0.26
GACIl1Do7Du-00305-00079616-00079862 so in spring
GACIl1Do7Du-00306-00079863-00080159 estrella and in summer is moisture
GACIl1Do7Du-00307-00080160-00080479 utopia with respect to noaa
GACIl1Do7Du-00308-00080480-00080782 in the mountain and the high mountain
GACIl1Do7Du-00309-00080783-00081047 here i show the result for high
GACIl1Do7Du-00310-00081048-00081182 mountains
GACIl1Do7Du-00311-00081183-00081423 the difference a little bit larger
GACIl1Do7Du-00312-00081424-00081567 because
GACIl1Do7Du-00313-00081568-00081887 no value for net radiation sensible and
GACIl1Do7Du-00314-00081888-00082199 latent flux are larger
GACIl1Do7Du-00315-00082200-00082343 also
GACIl1Do7Du-00316-00082344-00082494 the
GACIl1Do7Du-00317-00082495-00082718 there is a big difference for utopia
GACIl1Do7Du-00318-00082719-00082959 between latin and sensible it flux in
GACIl1Do7Du-00319-00082960-00083199 summer and in the remaining season they
GACIl1Do7Du-00320-00083200-00083494 are quite similar while for noah the
GACIl1Do7Du-00321-00083495-00083791 difference is small in summer but the
GACIl1Do7Du-00322-00083792-00084023 value are a little bit larger compare
GACIl1Do7Du-00323-00084024-00084303 the maximum of sensible reflux about 30
GACIl1Do7Du-00324-00084304-00084543 but per square meter with the
GACIl1Do7Du-00325-00084544-00084879 maximum 60 bucks per meter of sensibly
GACIl1Do7Du-00326-00084880-00085047 flux for more
GACIl1Do7Du-00327-00085048-00085318 regarding conductivity fluxes is larger
GACIl1Do7Du-00328-00085319-00085382 in
GACIl1Do7Du-00329-00085383-00085687 utopia with respect to noah and the
GACIl1Do7Du-00330-00085688-00085959 timing is quite similar the timing of
GACIl1Do7Du-00331-00085960-00086159 the maximum
GACIl1Do7Du-00332-00086160-00086447 regarding soil value also here there is
GACIl1Do7Du-00333-00086448-00086694 a similarity for soil temperature but
GACIl1Do7Du-00334-00086695-00086975 utopia is the two degree warmer than
GACIl1Do7Du-00335-00086976-00087159 noah in summer
GACIl1Do7Du-00336-00087160-00087343 while for soil moisture there is the
GACIl1Do7Du-00337-00087344-00087647 largest difference between because
GACIl1Do7Du-00338-00087648-00087943 noah has just a single maximum king
GACIl1Do7Du-00339-00087944-00088223 spring and in the remaining
GACIl1Do7Du-00340-00088224-00088487 part of the seasons the very
GACIl1Do7Du-00341-00088488-00088815 quite constant while for utopia
GACIl1Do7Du-00342-00088816-00088982 the value
GACIl1Do7Du-00343-00088983-00089206 around 0.26
GACIl1Do7Du-00344-00089207-00089471 cubic meter per cubic meter for the
GACIl1Do7Du-00345-00089472-00089671 years with two
GACIl1Do7Du-00346-00089672-00090062 maxima in spring and autumn and 2 minima
GACIl1Do7Du-00347-00090063-00090518 in the winter and summer
GACIl1Do7Du-00348-00090519-00090782 as a conclusion in this work we have
GACIl1Do7Du-00349-00090783-00091143 evaluated the climatic value of energy
GACIl1Do7Du-00350-00091144-00091415 and hydrological budget components using
GACIl1Do7Du-00351-00091416-00091726 the model utopia and considering 18
GACIl1Do7Du-00352-00091727-00092055 different classes of land use vegetation
GACIl1Do7Du-00353-00092056-00092847 cover and the soil texture
GACIl1Do7Du-00354-00092848-00093047 thank you very much doctor of sorry
GACIl1Do7Du-00355-00093048-00093206 professor um
GACIl1Do7Du-00356-00093207-00093431 casado does anyone have questions for
GACIl1Do7Du-00357-00093432-00093647 sarah we can um take two questions we've
GACIl1Do7Du-00358-00093648-00094879 got just time for two questions
GACIl1Do7Du-00359-00094880-00095103 i'll ask one if no one else is i was
GACIl1Do7Du-00360-00095104-00095399 wondering um professor claudia sorry
GACIl1Do7Du-00361-00095400-00095591 casado i'm sorry
GACIl1Do7Du-00362-00095592-00095959 um what are the next steps for um
GACIl1Do7Du-00363-00095960-00096238 for for your research uh where where are
GACIl1Do7Du-00364-00096239-00096599 you going to take this information
GACIl1Do7Du-00365-00096600-00096726 uh
GACIl1Do7Du-00366-00096727-00097055 can you hear me
GACIl1Do7Du-00367-00097056-00097247 yes i can yes
GACIl1Do7Du-00368-00097248-00097343 okay
GACIl1Do7Du-00369-00097344-00097543 so uh
GACIl1Do7Du-00370-00097544-00098071 we decided to make this analysis because
GACIl1Do7Du-00371-00098072-00098343 we would like to have a database
GACIl1Do7Du-00372-00098344-00098694 useful also to compare
GACIl1Do7Du-00373-00098695-00098959 output of climate models in present
GACIl1Do7Du-00374-00098960-00099071 climate
GACIl1Do7Du-00375-00099072-00099350 because sometimes climate model have
GACIl1Do7Du-00376-00099351-00099535 some deficiency
GACIl1Do7Du-00377-00099536-00099935 so we need a solid database
GACIl1Do7Du-00378-00099936-00100223 to assess the performance of climate
GACIl1Do7Du-00379-00100224-00100526 models already in the present climate so
GACIl1Do7Du-00380-00100527-00100655 this is
GACIl1Do7Du-00381-00100656-00101062 i think the usefulness of this research
GACIl1Do7Du-00382-00101063-00101231 because
GACIl1Do7Du-00383-00101232-00101494 for many quantities like energy and
GACIl1Do7Du-00384-00101495-00101679 hydrological budget there is no
GACIl1Do7Du-00385-00101680-00101847 observations
GACIl1Do7Du-00386-00101848-00102015 no long
GACIl1Do7Du-00387-00102016-00102287 time series of observation for climatic
GACIl1Do7Du-00388-00102288-00102527 purpose so this is
GACIl1Do7Du-00389-00102528-00102718 our goal
GACIl1Do7Du-00390-00102719-00103015 thank you
GACIl1Do7Du-00391-00103016-00103158 thank you very much does anyone else
GACIl1Do7Du-00392-00103159-00103318 have a
GACIl1Do7Du-00393-00103319-00104023 question for the professor
GACIl1Do7Du-00394-00104024-00104615 okay
GACIl1Do7Du-00395-00104616-00104799 okay thank you very much um professor
GACIl1Do7Du-00396-00104800-00104951 corsado that was really interesting
GACIl1Do7Du-00397-00104952-00105252 presentation
GCduoHQJeyc-00000-00000011-00000490 the vostok a Russian Vostok meaning east
GCduoHQJeyc-00001-00000491-00000970 growl index 8 k 7 to K was an expendable
GCduoHQJeyc-00002-00000971-00001268 carrier rocket used by the Soviet Union
GCduoHQJeyc-00003-00001269-00001721 for 13 launches between 1960 and 1964
GCduoHQJeyc-00004-00001722-00002105 six of which were manned it was derived
GCduoHQJeyc-00005-00002106-00002414 from the earlier Vostok L however it
GCduoHQJeyc-00006-00002415-00002659 featured up rated engines to improve
GCduoHQJeyc-00007-00002660-00002906 performance and enlarge its payload
GCduoHQJeyc-00008-00002907-00003242 capacity it was a member of the Vostok
GCduoHQJeyc-00009-00003243-00003515 family of rockets
GCduoHQJeyc-00010-00003517-00003813 the Vostok K made its maiden flight on
GCduoHQJeyc-00011-00003814-00004211 the 22nd of December 1960 three weeks
GCduoHQJeyc-00012-00004212-00004596 after the retirement of the Vostok L the
GCduoHQJeyc-00013-00004597-00004997 third stage engine failed 425 seconds
GCduoHQJeyc-00014-00004998-00005274 after launch and the payload a Korbel
GCduoHQJeyc-00015-00005275-00005572 Sputnik spacecraft failed to reach orbit
GCduoHQJeyc-00016-00005573-00005864 the spacecraft was recovered after
GCduoHQJeyc-00017-00005865-00006117 landing and the two dogs aboard the
GCduoHQJeyc-00018-00006118-00006427 spacecraft survived the flight
GCduoHQJeyc-00019-00006428-00006880 on the 12th of April 1961 a Vostok k
GCduoHQJeyc-00020-00006881-00007183 rocket was used to launch Vostok one the
GCduoHQJeyc-00021-00007184-00007462 first manned spaceflight which made Yuri
GCduoHQJeyc-00022-00007463-00007773 Gagarin the first human to fly in space
GCduoHQJeyc-00023-00007773-00008098 all six manned missions of the Vostok
GCduoHQJeyc-00024-00008098-00008419 program were launched using Vostok K
GCduoHQJeyc-00025-00008420-00008737 Rockets the first to Zeinab
GCduoHQJeyc-00026-00008738-00008964 reconnaissance satellites were also
GCduoHQJeyc-00027-00008965-00009217 launched with the Vostok k but it was
GCduoHQJeyc-00028-00009218-00009478 soon replaced in that capacity with the
GCduoHQJeyc-00029-00009479-00009883 uprated eight a 9-2 booster after the
GCduoHQJeyc-00030-00009884-00010152 conclusion of the Vostok program there
GCduoHQJeyc-00031-00010153-00010485 were two remaining eight k 72 kilo
GCduoHQJeyc-00032-00010486-00010716 seconds left these were used to launch
GCduoHQJeyc-00033-00010717-00011026 four electron scientific satellites on
GCduoHQJeyc-00034-00011027-00011622 January 30th and July 10th 1964
GC8VWMW33V0-00000-00000312-00000383 all right so
GC8VWMW33V0-00001-00000384-00000582 anyway happy sunday morning welcome
GC8VWMW33V0-00002-00000583-00000751 everybody those of you joining us for
GC8VWMW33V0-00003-00000752-00000847 audio video
GC8VWMW33V0-00004-00000848-00001031 we want to welcome you to new beginnings
GC8VWMW33V0-00005-00001032-00001158 church of the big bang
GC8VWMW33V0-00006-00001159-00001478 amen feliz domingo
GC8VWMW33V0-00007-00001479-00001871 and we want to welcome you
GC8VWMW33V0-00008-00001872-00002223 so welcome nbc family business visitors
GC8VWMW33V0-00009-00002224-00002391 and all those joining us by audio and
GC8VWMW33V0-00010-00002392-00002479 video
GC8VWMW33V0-00011-00002480-00002663 we wanted to say welcome welcome welcome
GC8VWMW33V0-00012-00002664-00002799 amen so
GC8VWMW33V0-00013-00002800-00003079 get ready get prepared i'm excited i
GC8VWMW33V0-00014-00003080-00003199 don't know about you
GC8VWMW33V0-00015-00003200-00003470 but uh you know on a daily basis the
GC8VWMW33V0-00016-00003471-00003599 word of god says this is the day the
GC8VWMW33V0-00017-00003600-00003847 lord is made rejoicing be glad in it
GC8VWMW33V0-00018-00003847-00004079 are you rejoicing and are you being glad
GC8VWMW33V0-00019-00004079-00004199 because you know what
GC8VWMW33V0-00020-00004200-00004422 because there's lots of things coming
GC8VWMW33V0-00021-00004423-00004527 against you
GC8VWMW33V0-00022-00004528-00004759 yeah amen there's a lot of distractions
GC8VWMW33V0-00023-00004760-00004951 coming against you
GC8VWMW33V0-00024-00004952-00005151 and you know what it's never going to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00025-00005152-00005454 perfect until jesus comes back
GC8VWMW33V0-00026-00005455-00005702 so the main thing to do is get yourself
GC8VWMW33V0-00027-00005703-00005815 right with him
GC8VWMW33V0-00028-00005816-00006134 amen get your relationship strong and
GC8VWMW33V0-00029-00006135-00006311 before you face the world before you
GC8VWMW33V0-00030-00006312-00006351 face
GC8VWMW33V0-00031-00006352-00006727 anybody yeah spend time with him
GC8VWMW33V0-00032-00006728-00006967 get yourself right build yourself up in
GC8VWMW33V0-00033-00006968-00007070 him you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00034-00007072-00007406 because uh your enemy is busy he comes
GC8VWMW33V0-00035-00007408-00007510 to do what
GC8VWMW33V0-00036-00007511-00007823 steal kill and destroy amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00037-00007823-00007983 so you know what hey there's a lot of
GC8VWMW33V0-00038-00007984-00008214 things coming at me right now
GC8VWMW33V0-00039-00008215-00008510 but guess what i've got my armor on yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00040-00008511-00008614 i've got jesus
GC8VWMW33V0-00041-00008615-00008951 on i'm turned on for god and i ain't
GC8VWMW33V0-00042-00008952-00009183 gonna let these things bring me down
GC8VWMW33V0-00043-00009184-00009351 you know a lot of people invite you to
GC8VWMW33V0-00044-00009352-00009710 parties especially pity parties oh yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00045-00009711-00010087 don't attend don't take
GC8VWMW33V0-00046-00010088-00010399 the care don't take those uh
GC8VWMW33V0-00047-00010400-00010710 pity things amen don't let nobody steal
GC8VWMW33V0-00048-00010711-00010823 your joy
GC8VWMW33V0-00049-00010824-00010999 the bible says joy the lord is your
GC8VWMW33V0-00050-00011000-00011214 strength yeah so why are you giving it
GC8VWMW33V0-00051-00011215-00011278 up
GC8VWMW33V0-00052-00011279-00011574 don't give it up there's many
GC8VWMW33V0-00053-00011575-00011735 distractions there's many things
GC8VWMW33V0-00054-00011736-00011895 and we've been talking about this the
GC8VWMW33V0-00055-00011896-00012103 lord's been dealing with this
GC8VWMW33V0-00056-00012104-00012278 i know you know who you are i'm talking
GC8VWMW33V0-00057-00012279-00012519 to you it's time to give it up
GC8VWMW33V0-00058-00012520-00012822 it says cast it on me because i care for
GC8VWMW33V0-00059-00012823-00012910 you
GC8VWMW33V0-00060-00012911-00013158 he's got a special mission for you if
GC8VWMW33V0-00061-00013159-00013319 you don't see yourself that way
GC8VWMW33V0-00062-00013319-00013551 see yourself the way he sees you he sees
GC8VWMW33V0-00063-00013552-00013783 you a winner he sees you a champion
GC8VWMW33V0-00064-00013784-00014103 he says you can do all things through me
GC8VWMW33V0-00065-00014104-00014263 when you see yourself that way say
GC8VWMW33V0-00066-00014263-00014438 praise god i'm not gonna let
GC8VWMW33V0-00067-00014440-00014799 nothing stop me distractions friends
GC8VWMW33V0-00068-00014800-00015007 enemies whatever it may be coming
GC8VWMW33V0-00069-00015008-00015215 against you it ain't gonna stop me
GC8VWMW33V0-00070-00015216-00015519 i'm gonna press on amen listen i'm
GC8VWMW33V0-00071-00015519-00015655 talking to the church of god
GC8VWMW33V0-00072-00015656-00015886 i'm talking to the body of christ amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00073-00015887-00016063 and i've got a nugget here for you i got
GC8VWMW33V0-00074-00016063-00016230 plenty of nuggets here for you
GC8VWMW33V0-00075-00016231-00016583 it says church that's me you can point
GC8VWMW33V0-00076-00016584-00016655 at yourself
GC8VWMW33V0-00077-00016656-00016871 i am the church i am the body of christ
GC8VWMW33V0-00078-00016872-00017071 amen and it says the church is not an
GC8VWMW33V0-00079-00017072-00017150 audience to
GC8VWMW33V0-00080-00017151-00017471 be entertained the church is
GC8VWMW33V0-00081-00017472-00017639 an army of god that needs to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00082-00017640-00017863 empowered amen amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00083-00017864-00018167 you need to be empowered yes so
GC8VWMW33V0-00084-00018168-00018367 we're not here to be entertained that's
GC8VWMW33V0-00085-00018368-00018550 right sometimes he wants to
GC8VWMW33V0-00086-00018551-00018839 slap spank us good you know and then
GC8VWMW33V0-00087-00018840-00018886 correct
GC8VWMW33V0-00088-00018887-00019207 us yeah hey i i like it nice and easy
GC8VWMW33V0-00089-00019208-00019294 too
GC8VWMW33V0-00090-00019295-00019543 but you know sometimes the word is gonna
GC8VWMW33V0-00091-00019544-00019599 clean us
GC8VWMW33V0-00092-00019600-00019927 up the words gonna correct us amen so he
GC8VWMW33V0-00093-00019928-00020071 wants to do these things
GC8VWMW33V0-00094-00020072-00020391 so and he wants to bless you but we're a
GC8VWMW33V0-00095-00020392-00020486 church of god
GC8VWMW33V0-00096-00020487-00020671 and the church is the army of god that
GC8VWMW33V0-00097-00020672-00020847 needs to be empowered
GC8VWMW33V0-00098-00020848-00021167 you need to empower yourself
GC8VWMW33V0-00099-00021168-00021447 if you don't have a bible get you one
GC8VWMW33V0-00100-00021448-00021607 you know how i got my first one
GC8VWMW33V0-00101-00021608-00021814 i went to the thrift store and bought me
GC8VWMW33V0-00102-00021815-00022014 one cheap
GC8VWMW33V0-00103-00022015-00022230 but the word of god is not cheap you got
GC8VWMW33V0-00104-00022231-00022407 to get that word in you
GC8VWMW33V0-00105-00022408-00022647 and you make it strong and be strong in
GC8VWMW33V0-00106-00022648-00022767 him
GC8VWMW33V0-00107-00022768-00023071 amen hallelujah get you a bible
GC8VWMW33V0-00108-00023072-00023350 and start getting the word of god in you
GC8VWMW33V0-00109-00023351-00023447 you're an army
GC8VWMW33V0-00110-00023448-00023591 you have to build yourself up you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00111-00023592-00023883 when i was in the military for 20-plus
GC8VWMW33V0-00112-00023884-00024286 years we stay bad already
GC8VWMW33V0-00113-00024287-00024535 ain't no surprises don't be surprised
GC8VWMW33V0-00114-00024536-00024742 the enemy comes to steal kill destroy
GC8VWMW33V0-00115-00024743-00024935 each and every day each and every
GC8VWMW33V0-00116-00024936-00025158 opportunity but you got to stay battle
GC8VWMW33V0-00117-00025159-00025239 ready
GC8VWMW33V0-00118-00025240-00025494 amen you gotta say bad already you're
GC8VWMW33V0-00119-00025495-00025622 not a wimp
GC8VWMW33V0-00120-00025623-00025887 you're a winner amen you're a winner
GC8VWMW33V0-00121-00025888-00026022 you're a warrior for god
GC8VWMW33V0-00122-00026023-00026327 man warriors fight hey man they just
GC8VWMW33V0-00123-00026327-00026455 don't sit back
GC8VWMW33V0-00124-00026456-00026774 and take it no but you got to get the
GC8VWMW33V0-00125-00026775-00026974 word in you when you get
GC8VWMW33V0-00126-00026975-00027246 fired up in the word of god ain't
GC8VWMW33V0-00127-00027247-00027390 nothing i'm going to hold you down
GC8VWMW33V0-00128-00027391-00027655 hey man probably that's just for you
GC8VWMW33V0-00129-00027656-00027807 that was one nugget
GC8VWMW33V0-00130-00027808-00028118 here's another nugget you got a few
GC8VWMW33V0-00131-00028119-00028470 problems
GC8VWMW33V0-00132-00028472-00028614 don't tell your god you have big
GC8VWMW33V0-00133-00028616-00028790 problems feel your problems you have a
GC8VWMW33V0-00134-00028791-00028862 big god
GC8VWMW33V0-00135-00028863-00029223 yes amen we need to turn this around
GC8VWMW33V0-00136-00029224-00029446 yeah you know you go to god the lord i
GC8VWMW33V0-00137-00029447-00029583 got a lot of problems guess what he
GC8VWMW33V0-00138-00029583-00029670 already knows
GC8VWMW33V0-00139-00029672-00029887 yes what are you doing about it i gave
GC8VWMW33V0-00140-00029888-00030007 you my word
GC8VWMW33V0-00141-00030008-00030199 i gave you all these things for you to
GC8VWMW33V0-00142-00030200-00030407 use against these things
GC8VWMW33V0-00143-00030408-00030774 amen you're an overcomer yes you can do
GC8VWMW33V0-00144-00030775-00030958 you can do all things through christ who
GC8VWMW33V0-00145-00030960-00031199 strengthens you amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00146-00031200-00031455 but don't tell god you have big problems
GC8VWMW33V0-00147-00031456-00031607 tell your problems anybody
GC8VWMW33V0-00148-00031608-00031870 i have a big god and when people come to
GC8VWMW33V0-00149-00031872-00031927 you
GC8VWMW33V0-00150-00031927-00032167 god will send people your way yeah say
GC8VWMW33V0-00151-00032168-00032358 hey how did you overcome this
GC8VWMW33V0-00152-00032360-00032583 this is how i overcame i made jesus lord
GC8VWMW33V0-00153-00032583-00032783 in my life yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00154-00032784-00033071 i studied the word i started walking in
GC8VWMW33V0-00155-00033072-00033135 the words
GC8VWMW33V0-00156-00033136-00033374 speaking the word and living the word
GC8VWMW33V0-00157-00033375-00033495 amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00158-00033496-00033823 man these these are great
GC8VWMW33V0-00159-00033824-00034302 man you can you can write these down
GC8VWMW33V0-00160-00034303-00034567 here's another one don't face each day
GC8VWMW33V0-00161-00034568-00034783 or an enemy until you have phased
GC8VWMW33V0-00162-00034784-00035095 your god in prayer yes you don't have to
GC8VWMW33V0-00163-00035096-00035199 face this world don't
GC8VWMW33V0-00164-00035200-00035535 face each day or your enemy
GC8VWMW33V0-00165-00035536-00035902 or anything else until you face your god
GC8VWMW33V0-00166-00035903-00036223 you know what when i face my god i am
GC8VWMW33V0-00167-00036224-00036535 battle ready i am ready for whatever the
GC8VWMW33V0-00168-00036536-00036607 world brings
GC8VWMW33V0-00169-00036608-00036862 amen that's what david did he saw a
GC8VWMW33V0-00170-00036863-00036999 child
GC8VWMW33V0-00171-00037000-00037271 he says you ain't no bad for my god
GC8VWMW33V0-00172-00037272-00037399 that's what you need to do
GC8VWMW33V0-00173-00037400-00037702 you need to be so full of god ain't no
GC8VWMW33V0-00174-00037703-00037862 giants out there big enough
GC8VWMW33V0-00175-00037863-00038159 to bring you down he says today he said
GC8VWMW33V0-00176-00038160-00038302 i'm gonna have you
GC8VWMW33V0-00177-00038303-00038743 see i'm gonna cut your head off amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00178-00038744-00038959 anyway we've been talking uh we're gonna
GC8VWMW33V0-00179-00038960-00039167 continue with uh last week uh
GC8VWMW33V0-00180-00039168-00039415 message and before you know i'm so fired
GC8VWMW33V0-00181-00039416-00039495 up
GC8VWMW33V0-00182-00039496-00039807 i'm just going to pull back a little bit
GC8VWMW33V0-00183-00039808-00039990 and grab your sword again grab your
GC8VWMW33V0-00184-00039991-00040199 bible and let's declare this
GC8VWMW33V0-00185-00040200-00040359 let's make this declaration together
GC8VWMW33V0-00186-00040360-00040639 amen so grab your bibles and say this
GC8VWMW33V0-00187-00040640-00040879 this is my bible i have what it says i
GC8VWMW33V0-00188-00040880-00041071 am i have what it says i have
GC8VWMW33V0-00189-00041072-00041318 i can do what it says i can do today
GC8VWMW33V0-00190-00041319-00041471 i'll be taught the word of god
GC8VWMW33V0-00191-00041472-00041774 i boldly confess my mind is alert my
GC8VWMW33V0-00192-00041775-00041902 spirit is receptive
GC8VWMW33V0-00193-00041903-00042199 and i'll never be the same in jesus name
GC8VWMW33V0-00194-00042200-00042302 amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00195-00042303-00042527 man if that don't fire you up i don't
GC8VWMW33V0-00196-00042528-00042799 know what will yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00197-00042800-00042958 but you need to get yourself fired up
GC8VWMW33V0-00198-00042959-00043102 you know like we used to have a pep
GC8VWMW33V0-00199-00043103-00043358 realities before each game
GC8VWMW33V0-00200-00043359-00043630 you know your team playing and you get
GC8VWMW33V0-00201-00043631-00043751 fired up and you ready
GC8VWMW33V0-00202-00043752-00043958 to get out on the field say wait a
GC8VWMW33V0-00203-00043959-00044199 minute you're not a player
GC8VWMW33V0-00204-00044200-00044423 but you want to get on the field man and
GC8VWMW33V0-00205-00044424-00044511 you got to
GC8VWMW33V0-00206-00044512-00044718 do your part what do you do as a fan you
GC8VWMW33V0-00207-00044719-00044815 just raise up
GC8VWMW33V0-00208-00044816-00045046 you raise your voice you raise your
GC8VWMW33V0-00209-00045047-00045279 heads and you get into the game
GC8VWMW33V0-00210-00045280-00045535 any which way you can well as a child of
GC8VWMW33V0-00211-00045536-00045767 god we get into the battle quickly
GC8VWMW33V0-00212-00045768-00045974 you know because we're in the battle
GC8VWMW33V0-00213-00045975-00046118 yeah amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00214-00046119-00046383 we're in the battle but we need to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00215-00046384-00046543 fired up
GC8VWMW33V0-00216-00046544-00046839 in the things of god amen so god will
GC8VWMW33V0-00217-00046840-00047023 make a way
GC8VWMW33V0-00218-00047024-00047183 god will make a way that's what we're
GC8VWMW33V0-00219-00047184-00047711 talking about he will make her way
GC8VWMW33V0-00220-00047712-00047990 in times of troubles and times of trials
GC8VWMW33V0-00221-00047991-00048230 and times of temptations
GC8VWMW33V0-00222-00048231-00048583 and trusting and in transgressions amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00223-00048584-00048967 in uh john 14 6 it says jesus said unto
GC8VWMW33V0-00224-00048968-00049062 them he says i
GC8VWMW33V0-00225-00049063-00049302 am the way the truth and the life no one
GC8VWMW33V0-00226-00049303-00049407 goes to the father
GC8VWMW33V0-00227-00049408-00049743 except through me yeah he is the way
GC8VWMW33V0-00228-00049744-00049902 and as a matter of fact i wrote it like
GC8VWMW33V0-00229-00049903-00050111 this jesus says
GC8VWMW33V0-00230-00050112-00050430 jesus is the only way yeah to the father
GC8VWMW33V0-00231-00050431-00050702 yeah man if i can get some uh slides up
GC8VWMW33V0-00232-00050703-00050758 here
GC8VWMW33V0-00233-00050759-00051254 um sin
GC8VWMW33V0-00234-00051255-00051575 separates yes god amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00235-00051576-00051887 amen but jesus is the bridge
GC8VWMW33V0-00236-00051888-00052126 yeah you know he stretched out his arms
GC8VWMW33V0-00237-00052127-00052294 yes that's a cross
GC8VWMW33V0-00238-00052295-00052575 that's a bridge that you can go from
GC8VWMW33V0-00239-00052576-00052630 just
GC8VWMW33V0-00240-00052632-00052959 people to god he is the way
GC8VWMW33V0-00241-00052960-00053182 amen he's the bridge he's the way the
GC8VWMW33V0-00242-00053183-00053263 only way
GC8VWMW33V0-00243-00053264-00053471 to the father yes he says there is no
GC8VWMW33V0-00244-00053472-00053711 other way he says i am the way the truth
GC8VWMW33V0-00245-00053712-00053791 and the life
GC8VWMW33V0-00246-00053791-00053975 nobody comes to the father except
GC8VWMW33V0-00247-00053976-00054135 through me yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00248-00054136-00054407 so we need to realize this and get to
GC8VWMW33V0-00249-00054408-00054526 know this amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00250-00054527-00054766 so if you're if you have never accepted
GC8VWMW33V0-00251-00054767-00054975 christ this is the time
GC8VWMW33V0-00252-00054976-00055350 you know hey it's time to say lord lord
GC8VWMW33V0-00253-00055351-00055663 uh i've sinned against you i repent i
GC8VWMW33V0-00254-00055664-00055823 ask you to come be my lord and savior
GC8VWMW33V0-00255-00055824-00055919 yeah and guess what
GC8VWMW33V0-00256-00055920-00056263 you'll come and you'll have a spiritual
GC8VWMW33V0-00257-00056264-00056647 rebirth you'll have a you're born again
GC8VWMW33V0-00258-00056648-00056935 a spiritual birth amen and you'll be
GC8VWMW33V0-00259-00056936-00057126 your heavenly father
GC8VWMW33V0-00260-00057127-00057294 and you know what he's the bridge
GC8VWMW33V0-00261-00057295-00057535 between you and the father yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00262-00057536-00057799 he says i'll make a way god made a way
GC8VWMW33V0-00263-00057800-00057999 he said jesus yeah i'm getting way ahead
GC8VWMW33V0-00264-00058000-00058094 of myself
GC8VWMW33V0-00265-00058095-00058335 okay but jesus in matthew chapter 1
GC8VWMW33V0-00266-00058336-00058535 verses 18 through 25
GC8VWMW33V0-00267-00058536-00058894 uh well that's okay
GC8VWMW33V0-00268-00058895-00059207 he said the holy spirit and mary he
GC8VWMW33V0-00269-00059208-00059366 chose mary to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00270-00059367-00059687 uh this woman this virgin mary
GC8VWMW33V0-00271-00059688-00059935 and chose her as a vessel yeah to bring
GC8VWMW33V0-00272-00059936-00060079 jesus into the world
GC8VWMW33V0-00273-00060079-00060366 that's i think i told you last week the
GC8VWMW33V0-00274-00060367-00060399 father
GC8VWMW33V0-00275-00060400-00060599 and the son met in heaven and he said
GC8VWMW33V0-00276-00060600-00060726 sir i'm gonna have to send you
GC8VWMW33V0-00277-00060727-00060911 i'm gonna have to sacrifice you so i can
GC8VWMW33V0-00278-00060912-00061063 get my people back
GC8VWMW33V0-00279-00061064-00061375 you're the way you're the only way and
GC8VWMW33V0-00280-00061376-00061542 he says okay he agreed
GC8VWMW33V0-00281-00061544-00061919 and he he was born of the virgin mary
GC8VWMW33V0-00282-00061920-00062238 and virgin mary accepted it
GC8VWMW33V0-00283-00062239-00062663 and so did joseph he saw that
GC8VWMW33V0-00284-00062664-00062879 and jesus made a way he made a way for
GC8VWMW33V0-00285-00062879-00063079 jesus to come into this world
GC8VWMW33V0-00286-00063079-00063382 and be our lord and savior amen to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00287-00063383-00063671 the way the truth and the life yeah amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00288-00063672-00063806 so praise god
GC8VWMW33V0-00289-00063807-00063999 god will make a way whatever you're
GC8VWMW33V0-00290-00064000-00064150 facing it doesn't matter
GC8VWMW33V0-00291-00064151-00064391 he says whatever the situation may be
GC8VWMW33V0-00292-00064391-00064454 god
GC8VWMW33V0-00293-00064455-00064766 will make a way but you have to have
GC8VWMW33V0-00294-00064767-00065047 a relationship with him amen or you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00295-00065048-00065279 what make him lord of your life this day
GC8VWMW33V0-00296-00065279-00065543 if you've never accepted him as your
GC8VWMW33V0-00297-00065544-00065703 lord and savior
GC8VWMW33V0-00298-00065704-00065919 receive him and say lord i receive you
GC8VWMW33V0-00299-00065920-00066071 as my lord and savior
GC8VWMW33V0-00300-00066072-00066255 it's time for you to get busy for him
GC8VWMW33V0-00301-00066256-00066391 and start doing for him
GC8VWMW33V0-00302-00066392-00066671 amen man i'm excited i don't know about
GC8VWMW33V0-00303-00066672-00066815 you
GC8VWMW33V0-00304-00066816-00067343 but i'm excited let me take these off
GC8VWMW33V0-00305-00067344-00067567 so he says jesus says i am the way the
GC8VWMW33V0-00306-00067568-00067703 truth and life no one comes to the
GC8VWMW33V0-00307-00067704-00067855 father except through me
GC8VWMW33V0-00308-00067856-00068055 this is another thing he says he said in
GC8VWMW33V0-00309-00068056-00068367 john 10 10 he said he said uh
GC8VWMW33V0-00310-00068368-00068519 the enemy comes to steal kill and
GC8VWMW33V0-00311-00068520-00068703 destroy he says but i've come
GC8VWMW33V0-00312-00068704-00068894 jesus says i've come that you might have
GC8VWMW33V0-00313-00068895-00069231 life and have it more abundantly
GC8VWMW33V0-00314-00069232-00069415 so you know what when you make jesus all
GC8VWMW33V0-00315-00069416-00069679 of your life
GC8VWMW33V0-00316-00069680-00069911 he's gonna bless you just don't forget
GC8VWMW33V0-00317-00069912-00070006 about
GC8VWMW33V0-00318-00070007-00070255 your blesser and get involved in just
GC8VWMW33V0-00319-00070256-00070326 the blessings
GC8VWMW33V0-00320-00070327-00070582 amen he's going to continue to bless you
GC8VWMW33V0-00321-00070583-00070855 as long as you're serving him amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00322-00070856-00071199 hallelujah i'm excited all about you
GC8VWMW33V0-00323-00071200-00071431 there's giants we face each day and they
GC8VWMW33V0-00324-00071432-00071606 come daily don't let them control
GC8VWMW33V0-00325-00071607-00071862 you you control them that's right you
GC8VWMW33V0-00326-00071863-00072031 speak to those problems don't tell you
GC8VWMW33V0-00327-00072032-00072231 you're god i've got big problems tell
GC8VWMW33V0-00328-00072232-00072350 your problems you got to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00329-00072351-00072694 god we got to turn that around yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00330-00072695-00072999 and uh also have a nugget here for you
GC8VWMW33V0-00331-00073000-00073199 and over there in our little stand we
GC8VWMW33V0-00332-00073200-00073350 have this
GC8VWMW33V0-00333-00073351-00073679 it says let your say-sos
GC8VWMW33V0-00334-00073680-00073967 be according to the word of god so each
GC8VWMW33V0-00335-00073968-00074135 and every day
GC8VWMW33V0-00336-00074136-00074391 yeah confess the right things let you
GC8VWMW33V0-00337-00074392-00074487 say so to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00338-00074488-00074687 i'm blessed i'm a winner i'm prosperous
GC8VWMW33V0-00339-00074688-00074815 i'm an overcomer
GC8VWMW33V0-00340-00074816-00075087 i'm a conqueror i'm well liked i'm fun
GC8VWMW33V0-00341-00075088-00075311 to be around i'm healthy i'm talented
GC8VWMW33V0-00342-00075312-00075606 i'm creative i'm faithful i'm secure i'm
GC8VWMW33V0-00343-00075607-00075671 dis
GC8VWMW33V0-00344-00075672-00075950 disciplined i'm focused i'm attractive
GC8VWMW33V0-00345-00075951-00076006 and i'm
GC8VWMW33V0-00346-00076007-00076415 valuable yes did you hear those things
GC8VWMW33V0-00347-00076416-00076567 why don't you speak those things over
GC8VWMW33V0-00348-00076568-00076887 yourself besides i'm no good
GC8VWMW33V0-00349-00076888-00077223 i am out to nothing you know and the
GC8VWMW33V0-00350-00077224-00077423 world is going to disqualify you and say
GC8VWMW33V0-00351-00077424-00077526 things about you
GC8VWMW33V0-00352-00077527-00077687 and everybody else is going to say
GC8VWMW33V0-00353-00077688-00077926 things about you so why don't you start
GC8VWMW33V0-00354-00077927-00078087 confessing what the word of god says
GC8VWMW33V0-00355-00078088-00078543 about you this is what it says about you
GC8VWMW33V0-00356-00078544-00078823 hallelujah the right people are in my
GC8VWMW33V0-00357-00078824-00078894 future
GC8VWMW33V0-00358-00078895-00079223 the right people are around me the right
GC8VWMW33V0-00359-00079224-00079326 opportunities
GC8VWMW33V0-00360-00079327-00079559 are heading my way yeah you know instead
GC8VWMW33V0-00361-00079560-00079711 of confessing well maybe it's another
GC8VWMW33V0-00362-00079712-00079815 day
GC8VWMW33V0-00363-00079816-00080119 another losing day another later
GC8VWMW33V0-00364-00080120-00080367 another day to battle another day
GC8VWMW33V0-00365-00080368-00080543 whatever
GC8VWMW33V0-00366-00080544-00080775 no it says the right opportunities are
GC8VWMW33V0-00367-00080776-00080911 headed my way
GC8VWMW33V0-00368-00080912-00081223 hey man i will overcome any obstacles
GC8VWMW33V0-00369-00081224-00081606 there is a great day a great year
GC8VWMW33V0-00370-00081607-00081871 in my future i have god's favor i can do
GC8VWMW33V0-00371-00081872-00081999 all things through christ who
GC8VWMW33V0-00372-00082000-00082111 strengthens me
GC8VWMW33V0-00373-00082112-00082303 greater is he that is in me than he this
GC8VWMW33V0-00374-00082304-00082423 in the world
GC8VWMW33V0-00375-00082424-00082647 you can fix these things over yourself
GC8VWMW33V0-00376-00082648-00082799 and you know what you're not going to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00377-00082800-00083079 just sitting down laying down and and
GC8VWMW33V0-00378-00083080-00083159 doing nothing
GC8VWMW33V0-00379-00083160-00083375 you're going to be excited say we mean
GC8VWMW33V0-00380-00083376-00083526 i'm somebody special
GC8VWMW33V0-00381-00083527-00083726 whether people see it or not you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00382-00083727-00083975 last week we talked about this
GC8VWMW33V0-00383-00083976-00084223 you got to stir yourself up yes you do
GC8VWMW33V0-00384-00084224-00084359 because nobody's gonna tell you these
GC8VWMW33V0-00385-00084360-00084415 things
GC8VWMW33V0-00386-00084416-00084550 because you have a mouth and you can
GC8VWMW33V0-00387-00084551-00084759 speak these words out yeah the bible
GC8VWMW33V0-00388-00084760-00084911 says that's the life right the power to
GC8VWMW33V0-00389-00084912-00085031 talk
GC8VWMW33V0-00390-00085032-00085182 so what are you gonna confess are you
GC8VWMW33V0-00391-00085183-00085415 gonna continue to hear and confess the
GC8VWMW33V0-00392-00085416-00085494 negative things
GC8VWMW33V0-00393-00085495-00085703 or are you going to continue to confess
GC8VWMW33V0-00394-00085704-00085894 the positive things
GC8VWMW33V0-00395-00085895-00086079 amen you know i'm going to continue to
GC8VWMW33V0-00396-00086080-00086231 confess the positive things
GC8VWMW33V0-00397-00086232-00086623 until that comes to pass amen amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00398-00086624-00086926 oh come on now whenever you begin to say
GC8VWMW33V0-00399-00086927-00086999 the positive
GC8VWMW33V0-00400-00087000-00087326 say-sos your life will never be the same
GC8VWMW33V0-00401-00087327-00087615 you will be a blessing you'll go beyond
GC8VWMW33V0-00402-00087616-00087831 your wildest dreams get ready for god to
GC8VWMW33V0-00403-00087832-00087999 do impossible
GC8VWMW33V0-00404-00088000-00088311 things in your life amen be happy be
GC8VWMW33V0-00405-00088312-00088471 blessed and have
GC8VWMW33V0-00406-00088472-00088662 not only a blessed day but a blessed
GC8VWMW33V0-00407-00088663-00088782 year
GC8VWMW33V0-00408-00088783-00089031 amen people looking at you and saying
GC8VWMW33V0-00409-00089032-00089247 man what's wrong with this person
GC8VWMW33V0-00410-00089248-00089487 well they got on fire for god and they
GC8VWMW33V0-00411-00089488-00089682 did a turnaround
GC8VWMW33V0-00412-00089683-00090006 amen you know nobody i've told you this
GC8VWMW33V0-00413-00090007-00090294 many times but
GC8VWMW33V0-00414-00090295-00090606 the battle of israel i mean the the army
GC8VWMW33V0-00415-00090607-00090687 of israel
GC8VWMW33V0-00416-00090688-00091118 is facing the egyptian army and
GC8VWMW33V0-00417-00091119-00091511 the philistine army and it is you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00418-00091512-00091647 they're just talking about the problem
GC8VWMW33V0-00419-00091648-00091838 in the giant and that's it yeah david
GC8VWMW33V0-00420-00091839-00092038 shows up and guess what
GC8VWMW33V0-00421-00092039-00092326 all he starts talking about is god my
GC8VWMW33V0-00422-00092327-00092406 god
GC8VWMW33V0-00423-00092407-00092623 saw me through my god will see me
GC8VWMW33V0-00424-00092624-00092815 through and that's what you need to do
GC8VWMW33V0-00425-00092816-00093015 on a daily basis my god will see me
GC8VWMW33V0-00426-00093016-00093118 through this day
GC8VWMW33V0-00427-00093119-00093374 my god will see me through the days
GC8VWMW33V0-00428-00093375-00093431 ahead
GC8VWMW33V0-00429-00093432-00093718 the days that are coming my future be
GC8VWMW33V0-00430-00093719-00094167 excited amen god will make a way yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00431-00094168-00094406 it's jose pastor jose on fire god will
GC8VWMW33V0-00432-00094407-00094535 make a way
GC8VWMW33V0-00433-00094536-00094823 your god with god you're in control
GC8VWMW33V0-00434-00094824-00095071 without god you're out of control
GC8VWMW33V0-00435-00095072-00095279 you have been in the car and have that
GC8VWMW33V0-00436-00095280-00095455 car go out of control
GC8VWMW33V0-00437-00095456-00095774 it's like wow you lost control
GC8VWMW33V0-00438-00095775-00096167 amen do you ever fail you was oh my god
GC8VWMW33V0-00439-00096168-00096367 your words your asses your thoughts will
GC8VWMW33V0-00440-00096368-00096550 make a way or break
GC8VWMW33V0-00441-00096551-00096806 you they'll make a way or they'll break
GC8VWMW33V0-00442-00096807-00096918 you how because
GC8VWMW33V0-00443-00096919-00097182 positive or negative yeah they'll make
GC8VWMW33V0-00444-00097183-00097223 you
GC8VWMW33V0-00445-00097224-00097567 or they'll break you keep positive
GC8VWMW33V0-00446-00097568-00097759 let you say so be according to the word
GC8VWMW33V0-00447-00097760-00097911 god stay
GC8VWMW33V0-00448-00097912-00098223 in control feed your spirit
GC8VWMW33V0-00449-00098224-00098511 renew your mind and crucify your flesh
GC8VWMW33V0-00450-00098512-00098599 stay
GC8VWMW33V0-00451-00098600-00098918 in faith not in fear for we walk by
GC8VWMW33V0-00452-00098919-00099103 faith and not by sight
GC8VWMW33V0-00453-00099104-00099303 and that's what the word of god says we
GC8VWMW33V0-00454-00099304-00099462 walk by faith and not by
GC8VWMW33V0-00455-00099463-00099935 fear and you know what both of them
GC8VWMW33V0-00456-00099936-00100238 have opportunities and they both don't
GC8VWMW33V0-00457-00100239-00100399 see
GC8VWMW33V0-00458-00100400-00100638 amen so what are you going to choose i
GC8VWMW33V0-00459-00100639-00100774 choose to walk by faith
GC8VWMW33V0-00460-00100775-00100982 yeah and not by fear but you know what
GC8VWMW33V0-00461-00100983-00101182 the more you feed on the word of god
GC8VWMW33V0-00462-00101183-00101335 the more you're going to walk in faith
GC8VWMW33V0-00463-00101336-00101494 yes amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00464-00101495-00101767 so i'm going to stand the word and walk
GC8VWMW33V0-00465-00101768-00101862 in faith
GC8VWMW33V0-00466-00101863-00102191 and get fear gone fear is gone
GC8VWMW33V0-00467-00102192-00102623 take a hike stay in faith
GC8VWMW33V0-00468-00102624-00102942 trust him amen aim to please him
GC8VWMW33V0-00469-00102943-00103190 by it says the bible says in uh hebrews
GC8VWMW33V0-00470-00103191-00103415 11 1 says now faith is a
GC8VWMW33V0-00471-00103416-00103615 substance of thanks hope so for the
GC8VWMW33V0-00472-00103616-00103854 evidence of things not seen it also says
GC8VWMW33V0-00473-00103855-00103966 in hebrews 11 6
GC8VWMW33V0-00474-00103967-00104223 that but without faith it is impossible
GC8VWMW33V0-00475-00104224-00104342 to please him yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00476-00104343-00104734 amen you know if you're walking in fear
GC8VWMW33V0-00477-00104735-00104951 you ain't trusting god that's yeah if
GC8VWMW33V0-00478-00104952-00105086 you're walking in fear
GC8VWMW33V0-00479-00105088-00105366 you're not standing on the word amen if
GC8VWMW33V0-00480-00105367-00105519 you're walking in fear
GC8VWMW33V0-00481-00105520-00105743 you don't have no word in you you gotta
GC8VWMW33V0-00482-00105744-00105823 stay full
GC8VWMW33V0-00483-00105824-00106175 as a soldier of god we gotta stay spirit
GC8VWMW33V0-00484-00106176-00106471 word filled period you know just like
GC8VWMW33V0-00485-00106472-00106663 you keep your car full of gas
GC8VWMW33V0-00486-00106664-00106999 to go somewhere we got to say
GC8VWMW33V0-00487-00107000-00107334 word filled yeah faith word build
GC8VWMW33V0-00488-00107335-00107702 and confess the word of god amen john 16
GC8VWMW33V0-00489-00107703-00108007 16 33 says i have told you these things
GC8VWMW33V0-00490-00108008-00108278 so that you may uh have peace in this
GC8VWMW33V0-00491-00108279-00108447 world you'll have troubles
GC8VWMW33V0-00492-00108448-00108743 tribulations but take heart i have
GC8VWMW33V0-00493-00108744-00108927 overcome the world yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00494-00108928-00109071 he's telling us i've been through what
GC8VWMW33V0-00495-00109072-00109319 you're going through i've been there
GC8VWMW33V0-00496-00109320-00109486 you know a lot of times we say well
GC8VWMW33V0-00497-00109488-00109631 you've never gone through this
GC8VWMW33V0-00498-00109632-00109783 he's gone through worse than you have
GC8VWMW33V0-00499-00109783-00109966 yes he's he's gone through worse than
GC8VWMW33V0-00500-00109967-00110023 you will
GC8VWMW33V0-00501-00110024-00110239 ever go through that's right amen and
GC8VWMW33V0-00502-00110240-00110366 you didn't talk you didn't take the
GC8VWMW33V0-00503-00110367-00110575 beating and the stripes he took
GC8VWMW33V0-00504-00110576-00110943 like he did amen so
GC8VWMW33V0-00505-00110944-00111190 hallelujah he'll make a way he says in
GC8VWMW33V0-00506-00111191-00111407 proverbs 3 5-6 trust in the lord with
GC8VWMW33V0-00507-00111408-00111486 all your heart
GC8VWMW33V0-00508-00111488-00111671 and lean on in your own understanding in
GC8VWMW33V0-00509-00111672-00111823 all your ways submit to him
GC8VWMW33V0-00510-00111824-00112166 and he will make a path
GC8VWMW33V0-00511-00112167-00112558 you'll make a way you'll make a way
GC8VWMW33V0-00512-00112559-00112775 hallelujah thank you lord i think last
GC8VWMW33V0-00513-00112776-00112983 week we talked about
GC8VWMW33V0-00514-00112983-00113390 when the uh egyptian army was uh
GC8VWMW33V0-00515-00113391-00113719 after moses and the people of israel and
GC8VWMW33V0-00516-00113720-00113902 he was between the army
GC8VWMW33V0-00517-00113903-00114215 the egyptian army and and the red sea
GC8VWMW33V0-00518-00114216-00114543 yeah says lord i need make a way and he
GC8VWMW33V0-00519-00114544-00114678 did he opened
GC8VWMW33V0-00520-00114679-00114958 he opened the red sea for them to walk
GC8VWMW33V0-00521-00114959-00115047 through
GC8VWMW33V0-00522-00115048-00115302 yeah or drive hand amen you'll make a
GC8VWMW33V0-00523-00115303-00115575 way whatever your situation might be
GC8VWMW33V0-00524-00115576-00115886 it's not impossible with him with god
GC8VWMW33V0-00525-00115888-00116047 all things are possible
GC8VWMW33V0-00526-00116048-00116447 amen giant storms giant problems
GC8VWMW33V0-00527-00116448-00116695 come to all save and unsightly oh yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00528-00116696-00116910 but you know what we know our source
GC8VWMW33V0-00529-00116911-00117166 we know whose we are and what we can do
GC8VWMW33V0-00530-00117167-00117302 through with him
GC8VWMW33V0-00531-00117303-00117623 amen this is the difference they don't i
GC8VWMW33V0-00532-00117624-00117686 do
GC8VWMW33V0-00533-00117688-00118031 okay i don't get high i get high
GC8VWMW33V0-00534-00118032-00118375 on the most high he is my most high
GC8VWMW33V0-00535-00118376-00118566 and i get high on him lord i need you
GC8VWMW33V0-00536-00118567-00118807 again i need you now more than ever
GC8VWMW33V0-00537-00118808-00118878 before
GC8VWMW33V0-00538-00118879-00119102 amen oh that was our beautiful song
GC8VWMW33V0-00539-00119103-00119215 thank you christine
GC8VWMW33V0-00540-00119216-00119447 that was awesome i need you now more
GC8VWMW33V0-00541-00119448-00119599 than ever
GC8VWMW33V0-00542-00119600-00119902 more more more amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00543-00119903-00120175 if you trust god and keep on walking in
GC8VWMW33V0-00544-00120176-00120286 faith
GC8VWMW33V0-00545-00120288-00120558 trust him and keep on walking with him
GC8VWMW33V0-00546-00120559-00120639 amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00547-00120640-00120814 i want him by my side all the time and
GC8VWMW33V0-00548-00120815-00121054 you know what he says his word says
GC8VWMW33V0-00549-00121055-00121247 i'll never leave you no forsake you yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00550-00121248-00121375 it is he's with me
GC8VWMW33V0-00551-00121376-00121647 and last week we read the uh the prince
GC8VWMW33V0-00552-00121648-00121807 in the sand
GC8VWMW33V0-00553-00121808-00122231 we know that
GC8VWMW33V0-00554-00122232-00122534 he's there with us all the time
GC8VWMW33V0-00555-00122535-00122695 he's not going anywhere he's going to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00556-00122696-00122839 there and he's going to take care of us
GC8VWMW33V0-00557-00122840-00123254 he's going to fight our battles um
GC8VWMW33V0-00558-00123255-00123734 let's see
GC8VWMW33V0-00559-00123735-00124063 well i'll just put that up for now
GC8VWMW33V0-00560-00124064-00124358 but still god will make a way yes here
GC8VWMW33V0-00561-00124359-00124407 we are
GC8VWMW33V0-00562-00124408-00124543 trust in the lord with all your heart
GC8VWMW33V0-00563-00124544-00124695 lean out in your own understanding but
GC8VWMW33V0-00564-00124696-00124831 always submit to him
GC8VWMW33V0-00565-00124832-00125014 and he'll make a path for you so don't
GC8VWMW33V0-00566-00125015-00125175 worry don't be anxious
GC8VWMW33V0-00567-00125176-00125486 and uh philippians 4 6 6 and 7 says this
GC8VWMW33V0-00568-00125488-00125814 be anxious for what but nothing
GC8VWMW33V0-00569-00125815-00125943 but in everything by praying
GC8VWMW33V0-00570-00125944-00126134 supplication with thanksgiving
GC8VWMW33V0-00571-00126135-00126366 let your requests be made known to god
GC8VWMW33V0-00572-00126367-00126502 and the peace of god
GC8VWMW33V0-00573-00126503-00126783 which surpasses all understanding will
GC8VWMW33V0-00574-00126783-00126886 guard your heart
GC8VWMW33V0-00575-00126888-00127199 and mind through christ jesus amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00576-00127200-00127502 come on now so be patient
GC8VWMW33V0-00577-00127503-00127831 and trust know that he is there for you
GC8VWMW33V0-00578-00127832-00127910 amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00579-00127911-00128199 he is there for you are you there for
GC8VWMW33V0-00580-00128200-00128302 him
GC8VWMW33V0-00581-00128303-00128623 amen like i said we're his army
GC8VWMW33V0-00582-00128624-00128871 yeah and he's counting on you yeah so
GC8VWMW33V0-00583-00128872-00129054 you know what we can't go eight well
GC8VWMW33V0-00584-00129055-00129447 yeah yeah we can't go high we just can't
GC8VWMW33V0-00585-00129448-00129775 be uh lukewarm we're pretending to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00586-00129776-00129975 christians pretending to be soldiers you
GC8VWMW33V0-00587-00129976-00130078 know
GC8VWMW33V0-00588-00130079-00130271 he needs soldiers in his army yes he
GC8VWMW33V0-00589-00130272-00130423 does but we need to be
GC8VWMW33V0-00590-00130424-00130647 bad already yes and you ain't going to
GC8VWMW33V0-00591-00130648-00130958 be you can't be a part-time christian
GC8VWMW33V0-00592-00130959-00131231 against a full-time devil that's it you
GC8VWMW33V0-00593-00131232-00131343 got to keep yourself
GC8VWMW33V0-00594-00131344-00131614 strong and be a full-time full-time
GC8VWMW33V0-00595-00131615-00131759 question amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00596-00131760-00132135 come on here so know who's you are
GC8VWMW33V0-00597-00132136-00132423 and do your best for him amen hallelujah
GC8VWMW33V0-00598-00132424-00132671 god will make a way
GC8VWMW33V0-00599-00132672-00133111 and somebody's uh we read
GC8VWMW33V0-00600-00133112-00133423 he'll make a way he made a way for them
GC8VWMW33V0-00601-00133424-00133566 to get out of uh
GC8VWMW33V0-00602-00133567-00133959 uh egypt he made a way for them to cross
GC8VWMW33V0-00603-00133960-00134063 the red sea
GC8VWMW33V0-00604-00134064-00134335 yes he made a way for them to uh cross
GC8VWMW33V0-00605-00134336-00134511 in the wilderness
GC8VWMW33V0-00606-00134512-00134759 amen you know that was only a few days
GC8VWMW33V0-00607-00134760-00134854 of journey
GC8VWMW33V0-00608-00134855-00135207 but because of that that took years
GC8VWMW33V0-00609-00135208-00135711 yeah 40 plus years
GC8VWMW33V0-00610-00135712-00135966 you know and that was only a few days
GC8VWMW33V0-00611-00135967-00136031 journey
GC8VWMW33V0-00612-00136032-00136302 yeah and all kinds of hell broke loose
GC8VWMW33V0-00613-00136303-00136527 amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00614-00136528-00136790 he made a way for them into the promised
GC8VWMW33V0-00615-00136791-00136854 land
GC8VWMW33V0-00616-00136855-00137159 jesus says i'm giving you this land it's
GC8VWMW33V0-00617-00137160-00137343 a promised land i'm giving you
GC8VWMW33V0-00618-00137344-00137639 but still he's seeing spies in there ken
GC8VWMW33V0-00619-00137640-00137799 came back with a bad report
GC8VWMW33V0-00620-00137800-00138063 two came back with positive reports we
GC8VWMW33V0-00621-00138064-00138127 could do it
GC8VWMW33V0-00622-00138128-00138366 we can do all things through christ no
GC8VWMW33V0-00623-00138367-00138535 the rest of him says no man we saw
GC8VWMW33V0-00624-00138536-00138823 giants you know when you go out into
GC8VWMW33V0-00625-00138824-00138895 your world
GC8VWMW33V0-00626-00138896-00139135 what do you see do you see giants well
GC8VWMW33V0-00627-00139136-00139271 you say man
GC8VWMW33V0-00628-00139272-00139447 there's great opportunities out there
GC8VWMW33V0-00629-00139448-00139654 for me
GC8VWMW33V0-00630-00139655-00139999 it was in your heart first
GC8VWMW33V0-00631-00140000-00140223 you made a way for jesus of course john
GC8VWMW33V0-00632-00140224-00140366 3 16
GC8VWMW33V0-00633-00140367-00140614 he was born we said a few minutes ago he
GC8VWMW33V0-00634-00140615-00140751 wanted virgin mary
GC8VWMW33V0-00635-00140752-00141047 but father says you know uh let's go to
GC8VWMW33V0-00636-00141048-00141527 john 3 16.
GC8VWMW33V0-00637-00141528-00141887 amen we use the word of god here
GC8VWMW33V0-00638-00141888-00142031 that's the only way that's going to see
GC8VWMW33V0-00639-00142032-00142214 us through
GC8VWMW33V0-00640-00142215-00142614 john 3 16. we we all know it but it's
GC8VWMW33V0-00641-00142615-00142775 okay to open the bible
GC8VWMW33V0-00642-00142776-00143126 and read it it says for god so love the
GC8VWMW33V0-00643-00143127-00143319 world for god's sake you can put you in
GC8VWMW33V0-00644-00143320-00143478 the world you can put your name right
GC8VWMW33V0-00645-00143479-00143575 there
GC8VWMW33V0-00646-00143576-00143895 for god so loved me yes that he made a
GC8VWMW33V0-00647-00143896-00144023 way for me
GC8VWMW33V0-00648-00144024-00144319 by saying that jesus amen he made a way
GC8VWMW33V0-00649-00144320-00144543 for god so loved the world
GC8VWMW33V0-00650-00144544-00144735 that he did what he gave his only
GC8VWMW33V0-00651-00144736-00144847 begotten son
GC8VWMW33V0-00652-00144848-00145014 that whosoever believeth in him should
GC8VWMW33V0-00653-00145015-00145159 not perish but have
GC8VWMW33V0-00654-00145160-00145519 everlasting life amen everlasting life
GC8VWMW33V0-00655-00145520-00145583 you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00656-00145584-00145887 i talked about jesus being the bridge
GC8VWMW33V0-00657-00145888-00145999 between
GC8VWMW33V0-00658-00146000-00146302 man and god he's the bridge he's the
GC8VWMW33V0-00659-00146303-00146478 only way to the father
GC8VWMW33V0-00660-00146479-00146790 but what you have to do is the gap is
GC8VWMW33V0-00661-00146791-00147111 sin sin separate us
GC8VWMW33V0-00662-00147112-00147343 so we have to receive him as our lord
GC8VWMW33V0-00663-00147344-00147463 and savior
GC8VWMW33V0-00664-00147464-00147631 when you receive him as lord and savior
GC8VWMW33V0-00665-00147632-00147919 you know you'll have
GC8VWMW33V0-00666-00147920-00148223 everlasting life receiving him so
GC8VWMW33V0-00667-00148224-00148502 let's let's let's remember that he made
GC8VWMW33V0-00668-00148503-00148663 a way for paul and silas
GC8VWMW33V0-00669-00148664-00148926 he rescued him at the midnight hour well
GC8VWMW33V0-00670-00148927-00149054 you don't know
GC8VWMW33V0-00671-00149055-00149247 in the midnight hours you know when you
GC8VWMW33V0-00672-00149248-00149423 can't call nobody else
GC8VWMW33V0-00673-00149424-00149783 yeah you can call on god
GC8VWMW33V0-00674-00149784-00149926 paul and silas you know what they were
GC8VWMW33V0-00675-00149927-00150231 doing they weren't sad
GC8VWMW33V0-00676-00150232-00150583 they were singing praises unto god and
GC8VWMW33V0-00677-00150584-00150902 he heard him and he shows up
GC8VWMW33V0-00678-00150903-00151254 and he the bonds
GC8VWMW33V0-00679-00151255-00151551 the chains fell off prison doors fell
GC8VWMW33V0-00680-00151552-00151719 open
GC8VWMW33V0-00681-00151720-00152054 and the guard drops to his knees and go
GC8VWMW33V0-00682-00152055-00152239 ready to kill himself he says wait a
GC8VWMW33V0-00683-00152240-00152431 minute we're all here to hurt yourself
GC8VWMW33V0-00684-00152432-00152726 all right his family got saved amen come
GC8VWMW33V0-00685-00152727-00152895 on now yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00686-00152896-00153278 jesus show us up yes he does
GC8VWMW33V0-00687-00153279-00153583 whatever your situation may be jesus
GC8VWMW33V0-00688-00153584-00153790 let give jesus the opportunity to come
GC8VWMW33V0-00689-00153791-00153975 amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00690-00153976-00154343 now more than ever before and more
GC8VWMW33V0-00691-00154344-00154711 than ever before now lord i need you
GC8VWMW33V0-00692-00154712-00154990 now yes amen wherever your situation may
GC8VWMW33V0-00693-00154991-00155126 be wherever you may be
GC8VWMW33V0-00694-00155127-00155375 going through yeah i need to help lord i
GC8VWMW33V0-00695-00155376-00155519 need you now
GC8VWMW33V0-00696-00155520-00155807 amen somebody said come on there yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00697-00155808-00155951 all you need to do is
GC8VWMW33V0-00698-00155952-00156199 if you can't drop to your knees you just
GC8VWMW33V0-00699-00156200-00156311 open your mouth
GC8VWMW33V0-00700-00156312-00156519 yes and say lord i need you thank you
GC8VWMW33V0-00701-00156520-00156647 lord
GC8VWMW33V0-00702-00156648-00157031 i repent i confess my sins come into my
GC8VWMW33V0-00703-00157032-00157175 life be my honest thing
GC8VWMW33V0-00704-00157176-00157407 i can't say that no you need to confess
GC8VWMW33V0-00705-00157408-00157495 him amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00706-00157496-00157647 and then you need to confess it with
GC8VWMW33V0-00707-00157648-00157863 your mouth yes says if you confess with
GC8VWMW33V0-00708-00157864-00157935 your mouth
GC8VWMW33V0-00709-00157936-00158087 the lord jesus and believe in your heart
GC8VWMW33V0-00710-00158088-00158287 god brings you from death you shall be
GC8VWMW33V0-00711-00158288-00158335 saved
GC8VWMW33V0-00712-00158336-00158702 yes he does i don't care who said what
GC8VWMW33V0-00713-00158703-00158902 read what the word of god says so that
GC8VWMW33V0-00714-00158903-00159023 you don't go by
GC8VWMW33V0-00715-00159024-00159326 whosoever says yeah go by what the word
GC8VWMW33V0-00716-00159327-00159463 of god says
GC8VWMW33V0-00717-00159464-00159766 amen amen you confess it and you're
GC8VWMW33V0-00718-00159767-00160119 going to be saved
GC8VWMW33V0-00719-00160120-00160559 hallelujah god made a way for job
GC8VWMW33V0-00720-00160560-00160919 his friend says
GC8VWMW33V0-00721-00160920-00161263 just curse your god and die
GC8VWMW33V0-00722-00161264-00161590 how many friends have i had to tell me
GC8VWMW33V0-00723-00161591-00161678 you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00724-00161679-00161975 just your god is crazy just curse you
GC8VWMW33V0-00725-00161976-00162014 god
GC8VWMW33V0-00726-00162015-00162311 and die you know no he made a way for
GC8VWMW33V0-00727-00162312-00162343 him
GC8VWMW33V0-00728-00162344-00162639 he took he lost but guess what he didn't
GC8VWMW33V0-00729-00162640-00162678 lose
GC8VWMW33V0-00730-00162679-00162990 god gave him double yes of what he had
GC8VWMW33V0-00731-00162991-00163247 that's right oh man praise god thank you
GC8VWMW33V0-00732-00163248-00163326 lord
GC8VWMW33V0-00733-00163327-00163766 he made way for daniel i'm so glad
GC8VWMW33V0-00734-00163767-00164071 god was there yeah god was there
GC8VWMW33V0-00735-00164072-00164526 and then he closed a lion's mouth
GC8VWMW33V0-00736-00164527-00164902 or jaws whatever it wouldn't take him
GC8VWMW33V0-00737-00164903-00165126 maybe maybe maybe he fed their stomachs
GC8VWMW33V0-00738-00165127-00165238 you know do i say
GC8VWMW33V0-00739-00165239-00166190 oh we don't
GC8VWMW33V0-00740-00166191-00166502 he made a way for joseph from slave to
GC8VWMW33V0-00741-00166503-00166647 second in command
GC8VWMW33V0-00742-00166648-00166966 over the whole uh
GC8VWMW33V0-00743-00166967-00167335 country of uh egypt amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00744-00167336-00167551 they try to kill him no we don't kill
GC8VWMW33V0-00745-00167552-00167671 him we'll just say we sell
GC8VWMW33V0-00746-00167672-00167975 settlement and slaver whatever you've
GC8VWMW33V0-00747-00167976-00168111 gone through
GC8VWMW33V0-00748-00168112-00168254 joseph went through our lives but you
GC8VWMW33V0-00749-00168255-00168423 know what
GC8VWMW33V0-00750-00168424-00168687 god always promoted him yes god's going
GC8VWMW33V0-00751-00168688-00168799 to promote you
GC8VWMW33V0-00752-00168800-00168983 but you need to be faithful in your
GC8VWMW33V0-00753-00168984-00169151 little things you'll be faithful
GC8VWMW33V0-00754-00169152-00169447 in whatever god has put you over and be
GC8VWMW33V0-00755-00169448-00169631 faithful and god's going to promote you
GC8VWMW33V0-00756-00169632-00169831 god's going to make a way god's going to
GC8VWMW33V0-00757-00169832-00169990 make opportunities for you
GC8VWMW33V0-00758-00169991-00170302 for for for for you to be promoted yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00759-00170303-00170607 amen you know he made a
GC8VWMW33V0-00760-00170608-00171031 a way for for a lot
GC8VWMW33V0-00761-00171032-00171343 got his wife but he told him what to do
GC8VWMW33V0-00762-00171344-00171526 and have to do
GC8VWMW33V0-00763-00171527-00171863 and she turned around no but he made a
GC8VWMW33V0-00764-00171864-00172023 way for them to get out of sodom and
GC8VWMW33V0-00765-00172024-00172119 gomorrah yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-00766-00172120-00172423 amen he made a way for david over
GC8VWMW33V0-00767-00172424-00172575 goliath
GC8VWMW33V0-00768-00172576-00173175 listen to this man this just
GC8VWMW33V0-00769-00173176-00173526 chokes me up but and it thrills me
GC8VWMW33V0-00770-00173527-00173878 but from a shepherd boy that nobody
GC8VWMW33V0-00771-00173879-00174135 you know how would you like to tell
GC8VWMW33V0-00772-00174136-00174254 somebody you know hey
GC8VWMW33V0-00773-00174255-00174590 i'm just a little shepherd boy and next
GC8VWMW33V0-00774-00174591-00174711 thing you know is
GC8VWMW33V0-00775-00174712-00175095 god's promoted him the king of israel
GC8VWMW33V0-00776-00175096-00175383 amen so you know whatever whatever
GC8VWMW33V0-00777-00175384-00175447 you're doing
GC8VWMW33V0-00778-00175448-00175687 whatever you are see yourself the way
GC8VWMW33V0-00779-00175688-00175775 god sees you
GC8VWMW33V0-00780-00175776-00175990 yeah amen you might be a little shepherd
GC8VWMW33V0-00781-00175991-00176271 boy but god sees the king
GC8VWMW33V0-00782-00176272-00176607 amen people see this but god
GC8VWMW33V0-00783-00176608-00177007 sees yes a winner god sees an overcomer
GC8VWMW33V0-00784-00177008-00177326 you know god sees a champion
GC8VWMW33V0-00785-00177327-00177566 see yourself that way if you don't see
GC8VWMW33V0-00786-00177567-00177702 yourself that way and you don't set
GC8VWMW33V0-00787-00177703-00177838 yourself up you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00788-00177839-00177990 the world's going to keep you down the
GC8VWMW33V0-00789-00177991-00178159 enemy's going to keep you low and down
GC8VWMW33V0-00790-00178160-00178214 you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00791-00178215-00178407 and you don't want to do that amen you
GC8VWMW33V0-00792-00178408-00178614 don't want to see yourself that way
GC8VWMW33V0-00793-00178615-00178878 that's right he may wait for a shadrach
GC8VWMW33V0-00794-00178879-00179135 meshach and abednego
GC8VWMW33V0-00795-00179136-00179535 says they were rescued from the fire
GC8VWMW33V0-00796-00179536-00179990 the main thing is god was there
GC8VWMW33V0-00797-00179991-00180247 in the fire with them you know he got
GC8VWMW33V0-00798-00180248-00180438 right into it
GC8VWMW33V0-00799-00180439-00180799 you know say wait a minute people saw
GC8VWMW33V0-00800-00180800-00181031 and it says we threw three people in
GC8VWMW33V0-00801-00181032-00181135 there we throw
GC8VWMW33V0-00802-00181136-00181447 three in there but we see four what's
GC8VWMW33V0-00803-00181448-00181614 going on
GC8VWMW33V0-00804-00181615-00181902 amen when people say you're on fire for
GC8VWMW33V0-00805-00181903-00181966 god man
GC8VWMW33V0-00806-00181967-00182278 say man you're just a different person
GC8VWMW33V0-00807-00182279-00182526 yeah you're not the per you're not the
GC8VWMW33V0-00808-00182527-00182663 same person anymore
GC8VWMW33V0-00809-00182664-00182895 you're totally different yeah because
GC8VWMW33V0-00810-00182896-00183014 god is with me
GC8VWMW33V0-00811-00183015-00183359 god is in me he says my body is a temple
GC8VWMW33V0-00812-00183360-00183687 of the holy spirit yes amen see yourself
GC8VWMW33V0-00813-00183688-00183814 that way
GC8VWMW33V0-00814-00183815-00184183 say thank you lord amen i want him
GC8VWMW33V0-00815-00184184-00184519 i need him he made a way amen for them
GC8VWMW33V0-00816-00184520-00184838 and he'll make a way for you
GC8VWMW33V0-00817-00184839-00185063 that's the main thing god will make a
GC8VWMW33V0-00818-00185064-00185183 way
GC8VWMW33V0-00819-00185184-00185463 and then he'll make a way he made a way
GC8VWMW33V0-00820-00185464-00185535 for them
GC8VWMW33V0-00821-00185536-00185766 he'll make a way for you why because i'm
GC8VWMW33V0-00822-00185767-00185911 a child of god
GC8VWMW33V0-00823-00185912-00186166 so quick going around calling yourself
GC8VWMW33V0-00824-00186167-00186271 i'm a nobody
GC8VWMW33V0-00825-00186272-00186607 i'm a sinner you know saved by grace
GC8VWMW33V0-00826-00186608-00187023 well you're a child of god and you
GC8VWMW33V0-00827-00187024-00187271 call yourself that he's your heavenly
GC8VWMW33V0-00828-00187272-00187390 father yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00829-00187391-00187687 i'm his child amen and he takes care of
GC8VWMW33V0-00830-00187688-00187926 his children yes amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00831-00187927-00188447 praise god hallelujah
GC8VWMW33V0-00832-00188448-00188750 mark 16 15 and 20 and uh
GC8VWMW33V0-00833-00188751-00189054 we can start closing with this but this
GC8VWMW33V0-00834-00189055-00189231 is for us
GC8VWMW33V0-00835-00189232-00189471 and i'm speaking this to us amen i'm
GC8VWMW33V0-00836-00189472-00189638 speaking this to you god gave
GC8VWMW33V0-00837-00189639-00190007 gave us this mark 16 15-20 says this
GC8VWMW33V0-00838-00190008-00190390 he says and he said to them go
GC8VWMW33V0-00839-00190391-00190695 i think last week we talked about
GC8VWMW33V0-00840-00190696-00191063 when peter saw uh jesus
GC8VWMW33V0-00841-00191064-00191390 walking on water he says wow
GC8VWMW33V0-00842-00191391-00191559 i want to come play too i want to walk
GC8VWMW33V0-00843-00191560-00191726 on water and you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00844-00191727-00192302 all jesus said was come that was enough
GC8VWMW33V0-00845-00192303-00192511 for things to happen and he started
GC8VWMW33V0-00846-00192512-00192614 walking on the water
GC8VWMW33V0-00847-00192615-00192943 yes amen but now he's telling us to go
GC8VWMW33V0-00848-00192944-00193359 that's two-thirds of god's name go geo
GC8VWMW33V0-00849-00193360-00193750 go it says go into all the world
GC8VWMW33V0-00850-00193751-00194031 and preach the gospel to every creature
GC8VWMW33V0-00851-00194032-00194095 yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00852-00194096-00194375 amen go preach the gospel well i can't
GC8VWMW33V0-00853-00194376-00194463 do it
GC8VWMW33V0-00854-00194464-00194775 focus saying i can't that's right okay
GC8VWMW33V0-00855-00194776-00195087 bible says i can do all things
GC8VWMW33V0-00856-00195088-00195390 through christ who strengthens me so i
GC8VWMW33V0-00857-00195391-00195471 can do
GC8VWMW33V0-00858-00195472-00195750 i'm a can-do person now i can't do you
GC8VWMW33V0-00859-00195751-00196083 know we got to get off of that i can't
GC8VWMW33V0-00860-00196084-00196199 right
GC8VWMW33V0-00861-00196200-00196414 he who believes that me and his baptized
GC8VWMW33V0-00862-00196415-00196559 will be saved but he who
GC8VWMW33V0-00863-00196560-00196838 does not believe in me will be condemned
GC8VWMW33V0-00864-00196839-00196887 right
GC8VWMW33V0-00865-00196888-00197150 and these signs will follow those who
GC8VWMW33V0-00866-00197151-00197254 believe yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00867-00197255-00197495 are you a believer now these sides are
GC8VWMW33V0-00868-00197496-00197671 going to follow me
GC8VWMW33V0-00869-00197672-00197959 in my name they will cast out demons yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00870-00197960-00198054 so you know
GC8VWMW33V0-00871-00198055-00198190 you don't have to say you know well i've
GC8VWMW33V0-00872-00198191-00198407 got to go get sister
GC8VWMW33V0-00873-00198408-00198719 sister sister holy holy you know so she
GC8VWMW33V0-00874-00198720-00198847 can cast out the devil
GC8VWMW33V0-00875-00198848-00199031 where i got to go see pastors so he can
GC8VWMW33V0-00876-00199032-00199223 come and cast out this devil
GC8VWMW33V0-00877-00199224-00199638 no no you do he says
GC8VWMW33V0-00878-00199639-00200047 in my name they believers
GC8VWMW33V0-00879-00200048-00200366 will cast out demons you know hey we
GC8VWMW33V0-00880-00200367-00200399 fight
GC8VWMW33V0-00881-00200400-00200663 spiritual battles we fight enemies we
GC8VWMW33V0-00882-00200664-00200807 fight spiritualists
GC8VWMW33V0-00883-00200808-00201143 amen but guess what
GC8VWMW33V0-00884-00201144-00201438 i have authority over them yeah and i
GC8VWMW33V0-00885-00201439-00201750 can cast them out in the name of jesus
GC8VWMW33V0-00886-00201751-00201959 so let's remember this amen we find a
GC8VWMW33V0-00887-00201960-00202078 spiritual battle
GC8VWMW33V0-00888-00202079-00202375 each and every day yeah amen and the
GC8VWMW33V0-00889-00202376-00202535 battlefield there's a battlefield and
GC8VWMW33V0-00890-00202536-00202647 the mind going on
GC8VWMW33V0-00891-00202648-00202871 all the time all the time but you got to
GC8VWMW33V0-00892-00202872-00203023 have the word if you have the word of
GC8VWMW33V0-00893-00203024-00203175 god in you
GC8VWMW33V0-00894-00203176-00203487 these things yes won't overtake you
GC8VWMW33V0-00895-00203488-00203814 right because i'm gonna be in right
GC8VWMW33V0-00896-00203815-00204087 in right mind i'm gonna be in his mind
GC8VWMW33V0-00897-00204088-00204175 amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00898-00204176-00204383 so in my name they will cast out demons
GC8VWMW33V0-00899-00204384-00204566 they will speak with new tongues
GC8VWMW33V0-00900-00204567-00204806 they will take up serpents and if they
GC8VWMW33V0-00901-00204807-00204934 drink any deadly thing
GC8VWMW33V0-00902-00204935-00205406 it will not harm them or hurt them
GC8VWMW33V0-00903-00205407-00205614 they will lay hands on the sick and they
GC8VWMW33V0-00904-00205615-00205742 will recover
GC8VWMW33V0-00905-00205744-00205919 they will lay hands on the sick and then
GC8VWMW33V0-00906-00205919-00206110 we recover so we don't have to go get
GC8VWMW33V0-00907-00206111-00206375 sister holy holy or we don't have to go
GC8VWMW33V0-00908-00206376-00206462 get pastor
GC8VWMW33V0-00909-00206463-00206671 but we don't have to go get so and so
GC8VWMW33V0-00910-00206671-00206806 yeah you
GC8VWMW33V0-00911-00206807-00207055 lay hands on the sick yes and they will
GC8VWMW33V0-00912-00207056-00207127 recover
GC8VWMW33V0-00913-00207128-00207358 amen that's what the word of god says
GC8VWMW33V0-00914-00207359-00207510 yes so i'm going to believe what the
GC8VWMW33V0-00915-00207511-00207606 word of god says
GC8VWMW33V0-00916-00207607-00207975 yes amen thank you lord
GC8VWMW33V0-00917-00207976-00208231 i'm going to i i'm standing on your word
GC8VWMW33V0-00918-00208232-00208351 now i'm going to do what your word
GC8VWMW33V0-00919-00208352-00208671 what your word says come on now
GC8VWMW33V0-00920-00208671-00208879 christ ascended to the right hand of god
GC8VWMW33V0-00921-00208880-00209023 a place of authority
GC8VWMW33V0-00922-00209023-00209238 yes sort of after the lord has spoken to
GC8VWMW33V0-00923-00209239-00209351 them
GC8VWMW33V0-00924-00209352-00209590 he would he was received into heaven and
GC8VWMW33V0-00925-00209591-00209855 said the right hand of god
GC8VWMW33V0-00926-00209856-00210046 and they went out and preached
GC8VWMW33V0-00927-00210048-00210351 everywhere the lord working with them
GC8VWMW33V0-00928-00210352-00210710 and confirming the word through the
GC8VWMW33V0-00929-00210711-00211023 accompanying signs yes amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00930-00211023-00211263 the lord working with him he is with me
GC8VWMW33V0-00931-00211264-00211431 he says he never leaves you no forsakes
GC8VWMW33V0-00932-00211432-00211463 you
GC8VWMW33V0-00933-00211464-00211798 he's always with me he confirms his word
GC8VWMW33V0-00934-00211800-00212342 amen so just know this because the enemy
GC8VWMW33V0-00935-00212344-00212575 uses people as well oh yeah they're not
GC8VWMW33V0-00936-00212576-00212831 so loved to god so they sold out to him
GC8VWMW33V0-00937-00212832-00213015 but he used his people and they're going
GC8VWMW33V0-00938-00213016-00213175 to say
GC8VWMW33V0-00939-00213176-00213471 god won't do this for you you know you
GC8VWMW33V0-00940-00213471-00213503 can't
GC8VWMW33V0-00941-00213504-00213798 do this but the word of god says so i'm
GC8VWMW33V0-00942-00213800-00213934 going to stand
GC8VWMW33V0-00943-00213935-00214182 firm on what the word of god says and
GC8VWMW33V0-00944-00214183-00214358 this is what he has for you
GC8VWMW33V0-00945-00214359-00214703 we're closing with this know this
GC8VWMW33V0-00946-00214704-00215031 god has a plan for you yes remember he's
GC8VWMW33V0-00947-00215032-00215127 called you
GC8VWMW33V0-00948-00215128-00215406 he has a plan for you he's anointed you
GC8VWMW33V0-00949-00215407-00215494 he's given you
GC8VWMW33V0-00950-00215496-00215903 power he's given you authority amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00951-00215904-00216223 you have to receive this yeah and act
GC8VWMW33V0-00952-00216223-00216615 on this amen so um
GC8VWMW33V0-00953-00216616-00218903 let me see what i'll do
GC8VWMW33V0-00954-00218904-00219151 you can write this down it says
GC8VWMW33V0-00955-00219152-00219351 believers
GC8VWMW33V0-00956-00219352-00219646 they just don't read the word they talk
GC8VWMW33V0-00957-00219648-00219734 the word
GC8VWMW33V0-00958-00219735-00220055 and they live the word amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00959-00220056-00220446 you read it you talk it and you live it
GC8VWMW33V0-00960-00220448-00220798 you read it you speak it and
GC8VWMW33V0-00961-00220800-00221103 you live it amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00962-00221104-00221598 hallelujah you do that god's gonna bless
GC8VWMW33V0-00963-00221600-00221951 yeah amen uh
GC8VWMW33V0-00964-00221952-00222239 okay he has a plan for you he's called
GC8VWMW33V0-00965-00222240-00222463 you he's anointed you
GC8VWMW33V0-00966-00222464-00222742 jeremiah 29 11 says this in the niv for
GC8VWMW33V0-00967-00222744-00222919 i know the plans i have for you declare
GC8VWMW33V0-00968-00222919-00223039 that the lord plans
GC8VWMW33V0-00969-00223040-00223287 to prosper you and not to harm you plans
GC8VWMW33V0-00970-00223288-00223510 to give you a hope and a future
GC8VWMW33V0-00971-00223511-00223951 none of god's plans for you
GC8VWMW33V0-00972-00223952-00224246 are uh include defeat none of them
GC8VWMW33V0-00973-00224248-00224415 however the devil plans
GC8VWMW33V0-00974-00224416-00224798 for you include steal kill and destroy
GC8VWMW33V0-00975-00224800-00225142 so you be careful are you
GC8VWMW33V0-00976-00225144-00225415 walking with him or are you walking with
GC8VWMW33V0-00977-00225416-00225463 the world
GC8VWMW33V0-00978-00225464-00225615 or you're walking with the enemy no i'm
GC8VWMW33V0-00979-00225616-00225775 going to walk with the lord amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00980-00225776-00226031 he has called anointed equipped and
GC8VWMW33V0-00981-00226032-00226134 gifted us
GC8VWMW33V0-00982-00226135-00226327 with everything needed to complete our
GC8VWMW33V0-00983-00226328-00226446 mission amen
GC8VWMW33V0-00984-00226448-00226703 keep yourselves stirred up daily yes
GC8VWMW33V0-00985-00226704-00226823 philippians 4th
GC8VWMW33V0-00986-00226823-00227191 in closing philippians 4 13 says this
GC8VWMW33V0-00987-00227192-00227510 i can do all things through christ whose
GC8VWMW33V0-00988-00227511-00227631 strength is faith
GC8VWMW33V0-00989-00227632-00227879 amen on a daily basis as you spend time
GC8VWMW33V0-00990-00227880-00227951 with him
GC8VWMW33V0-00991-00227952-00228231 before you step out you know he says
GC8VWMW33V0-00992-00228232-00228279 lord
GC8VWMW33V0-00993-00228280-00228575 i can do all things to you and you
GC8VWMW33V0-00994-00228576-00228663 strengthen me
GC8VWMW33V0-00995-00228664-00228967 amen yes and and his word says
GC8VWMW33V0-00996-00228967-00229279 in psalms 18 24
GC8VWMW33V0-00997-00229280-00229510 this is the day the lord has given me
GC8VWMW33V0-00998-00229511-00229719 and i will rejoice and be glad and i
GC8VWMW33V0-00999-00229719-00229798 will step out
GC8VWMW33V0-01000-00229800-00230158 in faith and do all things amen through
GC8VWMW33V0-01001-00230159-00230271 him amen
GC8VWMW33V0-01002-00230271-00230455 so praise god i hope that blessed you it
GC8VWMW33V0-01003-00230456-00230679 blessed me yeah
GC8VWMW33V0-01004-00230680-00231039 so if it's not then we need to pray for
GC8VWMW33V0-01005-00231040-00231071 you
GC8VWMW33V0-01006-00231071-00231310 or you need to get saved amen let's do
GC8VWMW33V0-01007-00231311-00231487 it again amen
GC8VWMW33V0-01008-00231488-00231791 this is for you receive it amen
GC8VWMW33V0-01009-00231792-00231958 if you've never received it you know as
GC8VWMW33V0-01010-00231959-00232198 we close you know this is an opportunity
GC8VWMW33V0-01011-00232200-00232319 for you
GC8VWMW33V0-01012-00232319-00232598 just to say lord jesus i've sinned
GC8VWMW33V0-01013-00232600-00232742 against you i repent
GC8VWMW33V0-01014-00232744-00232919 come in my life be my lord and savior
GC8VWMW33V0-01015-00232919-00233151 amen praise god amen
GC8VWMW33V0-01016-00233152-00233446 so if you have anything hurting you need
GC8VWMW33V0-01017-00233448-00233567 a healing from you
GC8VWMW33V0-01018-00233567-00233775 right now all you need to do is say bye
GC8VWMW33V0-01019-00233776-00233934 jesus stripes out of here
GC8VWMW33V0-01020-00233935-00234127 my body's intent for the holy spirit
GC8VWMW33V0-01021-00234128-00234319 your spirit of infirmity i give you no
GC8VWMW33V0-01022-00234319-00234406 place
GC8VWMW33V0-01023-00234407-00234655 your spirit of sickness go in jesus name
GC8VWMW33V0-01024-00234656-00234910 i receive my healing right now
GC8VWMW33V0-01025-00234911-00235215 in jesus name amen hallelujah
GC8VWMW33V0-01026-00235216-00235527 bless me you heal me it'll do the same
GC8VWMW33V0-01027-00235528-00235606 for you
GC8VWMW33V0-01028-00235607-00235846 he's no respecter of person amen so
GC8VWMW33V0-01029-00235848-00235975 praise god
GC8VWMW33V0-01030-00235976-00236294 amen so if you're watching
GC8VWMW33V0-01031-00236296-00236463 and you still like to give your tithe
GC8VWMW33V0-01032-00236464-00236671 knockers all you have to do is go to our
GC8VWMW33V0-01033-00236671-00236810 website
GC8VWMW33V0-01034-00236811-00237134 nbcbigbend.com hit that donate button
GC8VWMW33V0-01035-00237135-00237455 if you're mailing it nbcpomods252 market
GC8VWMW33V0-01036-00237456-00237579 texas
GC8VWMW33V0-01037-00237580-00237942 79843 amen amen and we just want to let
GC8VWMW33V0-01038-00237944-00238110 you know
GC8VWMW33V0-01039-00238111-00238294 god bless you and have a blessed week
GC8VWMW33V0-01040-00238296-00238759 amen praise god
GCoTTus6AnM-00000-00000370-00000619 thank you that laughs just a small
GCoTTus6AnM-00001-00000620-00001050 desserts which is probably not very good
GCoTTus6AnM-00002-00001051-00001447 but perhaps with some advice that could
GCoTTus6AnM-00003-00001448-00001675 be very useful nonetheless so what you
GCoTTus6AnM-00004-00001676-00002083 see on the left is again a cuff it's
GCoTTus6AnM-00005-00002084-00002308 actually me cuffing and what we did is
GCoTTus6AnM-00006-00002309-00002527 we analyzed very precisely the drop size
GCoTTus6AnM-00007-00002528-00002767 distribution similar to word Lydia over
GCoTTus6AnM-00008-00002768-00002998 dimensions and what we find is that
GCoTTus6AnM-00009-00002999-00003213 there's large drops that don't stay in
GCoTTus6AnM-00010-00003214-00003427 the air very long and there's small
GCoTTus6AnM-00011-00003428-00003643 drops and so what is interesting in
GCoTTus6AnM-00012-00003644-00003872 these small drops is that one cuff is
GCoTTus6AnM-00013-00003873-00004318 sufficient to produce roughly a million
GCoTTus6AnM-00014-00004319-00004552 of these drops depending on who cuffs
GCoTTus6AnM-00015-00004553-00004902 and so what you see in in the right four
GCoTTus6AnM-00016-00004903-00005347 pictures is that these the air drag on
GCoTTus6AnM-00017-00005348-00005721 these droplets is so large that they
GCoTTus6AnM-00018-00005722-00006138 take up to 10 15 minutes to sediment so
GCoTTus6AnM-00019-00006139-00006391 imagine that you enter a public toilet
GCoTTus6AnM-00020-00006392-00006713 after somebody who was infected with
GCoTTus6AnM-00021-00006714-00007089 Corona had coughed you can see after
GCoTTus6AnM-00022-00007090-00007495 zero seconds top left that there's lots
GCoTTus6AnM-00023-00007495-00007669 of small particles as you would expect
GCoTTus6AnM-00024-00007670-00007873 with after four minutes there's still a
GCoTTus6AnM-00025-00007873-00008031 lot of particles after eight minutes
GCoTTus6AnM-00026-00008032-00008367 there's still quite some particles and
GCoTTus6AnM-00027-00008368-00008644 even after 60 minutes there's particles
GCoTTus6AnM-00028-00008645-00008892 still being present from that one cough
GCoTTus6AnM-00029-00008893-00009169 16 minutes ago and so the advice to
GCoTTus6AnM-00030-00009170-00009474 everybody is open your windows open your
GCoTTus6AnM-00031-00009475-00009733 doors and ventilate it just as that left
GCoTTus6AnM-00032-00009734-00010171 hold you in the very beginning thank you
GDUq6bVCB3g-00000-00000360-00000511 hey everyone i'm matthew minante with
GDUq6bVCB3g-00001-00000512-00000782 fitnessfault.com with another review
GDUq6bVCB3g-00002-00000783-00000950 also don't forget to subscribe to our
GDUq6bVCB3g-00003-00000951-00001166 channel to see more product reviews
GDUq6bVCB3g-00004-00001167-00001407 today i have the lean bean fat burner
GDUq6bVCB3g-00005-00001408-00001663 it's from the company ultimate life ltd
GDUq6bVCB3g-00006-00001664-00001814 and it's designed to help women burn
GDUq6bVCB3g-00007-00001816-00001991 body fat and lose weight through
GDUq6bVCB3g-00008-00001992-00002159 suppressing the appetite boosting the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00009-00002160-00002463 metabolism and increasing energy levels
GDUq6bVCB3g-00010-00002464-00002631 all of which are key components of an
GDUq6bVCB3g-00011-00002632-00002855 effective weight loss recipe the company
GDUq6bVCB3g-00012-00002856-00003071 calls it the powerful natural supplement
GDUq6bVCB3g-00013-00003072-00003327 for women and it's very low stimulant so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00014-00003328-00003454 you'll definitely want to stick around
GDUq6bVCB3g-00015-00003455-00003663 to learn more about this product so i'm
GDUq6bVCB3g-00016-00003664-00003831 going to go ahead and break down each
GDUq6bVCB3g-00017-00003832-00004031 ingredient so that if you were curious
GDUq6bVCB3g-00018-00004032-00004175 about it or you wanted to know if it
GDUq6bVCB3g-00019-00004176-00004343 would be good for you hopefully you'll
GDUq6bVCB3g-00020-00004344-00004527 have a better idea of what it is and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00021-00004528-00004695 hopefully i'll also be able to answer
GDUq6bVCB3g-00022-00004696-00004879 your questions but before i do that i
GDUq6bVCB3g-00023-00004880-00005063 did want to mention the price because i
GDUq6bVCB3g-00024-00005064-00005247 do think that that is pretty important
GDUq6bVCB3g-00025-00005248-00005415 to mention so let's go ahead and get
GDUq6bVCB3g-00026-00005416-00005511 into it
GDUq6bVCB3g-00027-00005512-00005702 okay so as for pricing of lean bean fat
GDUq6bVCB3g-00028-00005703-00005895 burner you have three different options
GDUq6bVCB3g-00029-00005896-00006102 now one bottle does contain 30 capsules
GDUq6bVCB3g-00030-00006103-00006302 which is a one month supply so your
GDUq6bVCB3g-00031-00006303-00006470 first option is obviously going to be to
GDUq6bVCB3g-00032-00006472-00006806 just buy one bottle which is 59
GDUq6bVCB3g-00033-00006808-00006959 but it doesn't include shipping so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00034-00006959-00007127 you're going to obviously have to pay a
GDUq6bVCB3g-00035-00007128-00007255 little bit more compared to the other
GDUq6bVCB3g-00036-00007256-00007503 two options i'm about to talk about
GDUq6bVCB3g-00037-00007504-00007655 but i think that it could be a good way
GDUq6bVCB3g-00038-00007656-00007783 to go if you just want to see how your
GDUq6bVCB3g-00039-00007784-00007998 body reacts to it before you commit to
GDUq6bVCB3g-00040-00008000-00008183 buying like two or three bottles and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00041-00008184-00008342 then you have the two bottle option
GDUq6bVCB3g-00042-00008343-00008663 which is the two month supply that's 118
GDUq6bVCB3g-00043-00008664-00008878 but it's free shipping to the uk and the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00044-00008879-00009142 us so the savings are already there and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00045-00009143-00009351 then the best option of them all for
GDUq6bVCB3g-00046-00009352-00009510 saving the most money is going to be the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00047-00009511-00009846 three bottles plus one free option so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00048-00009847-00010087 that one is 185 dollars and it also
GDUq6bVCB3g-00049-00010088-00010295 comes with the free ebook workout guide
GDUq6bVCB3g-00050-00010296-00010551 and the worldwide delivery so that is
GDUq6bVCB3g-00051-00010552-00010759 going to be you know the best bang for
GDUq6bVCB3g-00052-00010760-00011078 your buck and you would actually save um
GDUq6bVCB3g-00053-00011079-00011383 42 cents per serving from the three belt
GDUq6bVCB3g-00054-00011384-00011535 option compared to the two bottle and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00055-00011536-00011719 you'd only pay sixty seven dollars more
GDUq6bVCB3g-00056-00011720-00012023 for twice the serving so the savings are
GDUq6bVCB3g-00057-00012024-00012183 absolutely there
GDUq6bVCB3g-00058-00012184-00012406 that's pretty much it for the pricing so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00059-00012407-00012574 let's go ahead and talk about the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00060-00012575-00012846 ingredients in lean bean okay so the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00061-00012847-00012966 first ingredient that i want to talk
GDUq6bVCB3g-00062-00012967-00013175 about is called glucomannan i hope i'm
GDUq6bVCB3g-00063-00013176-00013327 saying that correctly but it might also
GDUq6bVCB3g-00064-00013328-00013486 be one of the most impressive in lean
GDUq6bVCB3g-00065-00013487-00013694 bean it's a water soluble fiber that
GDUq6bVCB3g-00066-00013695-00013871 could soak up 50 times its weight in
GDUq6bVCB3g-00067-00013872-00014094 water and how this helps people lose
GDUq6bVCB3g-00068-00014095-00014238 weight is that it takes up a lot of room
GDUq6bVCB3g-00069-00014240-00014422 in the stomach and it delays stomach
GDUq6bVCB3g-00070-00014423-00014647 emptying so it can help you to not eat
GDUq6bVCB3g-00071-00014647-00014855 so many calories which as you know is
GDUq6bVCB3g-00072-00014856-00015103 key to weight loss the largest study of
GDUq6bVCB3g-00073-00015104-00015422 glucomannan involving 176 overweight men
GDUq6bVCB3g-00074-00015423-00015607 and women found that glucomannan
GDUq6bVCB3g-00075-00015608-00015894 combined with a 1200 calorie diet caused
GDUq6bVCB3g-00076-00015895-00016127 significantly significantly more weight
GDUq6bVCB3g-00077-00016128-00016407 loss compared to placebo in a diet alone
GDUq6bVCB3g-00078-00016408-00016583 and the good news is you don't need that
GDUq6bVCB3g-00079-00016584-00016758 much glucomannan to see the effects
GDUq6bVCB3g-00080-00016759-00016958 because it is very potent and the lean
GDUq6bVCB3g-00081-00016959-00017303 bean contains 3 grams which is actually
GDUq6bVCB3g-00082-00017304-00017463 higher than a lot of other products
GDUq6bVCB3g-00083-00017464-00017686 which is a good thing and it's also been
GDUq6bVCB3g-00084-00017687-00017863 shown to have positive effects on the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00085-00017864-00018167 heart and the best way to um to take
GDUq6bVCB3g-00086-00018168-00018430 glucomannan is before a meal to see the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00087-00018431-00018630 best effects
GDUq6bVCB3g-00088-00018631-00018871 the next ingredient is garcinia cambogia
GDUq6bVCB3g-00089-00018872-00019007 which contains a chemical called
GDUq6bVCB3g-00090-00019008-00019239 hydroxycitric acid which is believed to
GDUq6bVCB3g-00091-00019240-00019399 be responsible for the health-promoting
GDUq6bVCB3g-00092-00019400-00019647 properties lean bean contains 50
GDUq6bVCB3g-00093-00019648-00019847 hydroxycitric acid which is considered
GDUq6bVCB3g-00094-00019848-00020047 to be an effective dose now according to
GDUq6bVCB3g-00095-00020048-00020294 research garcinia cambogia may be more
GDUq6bVCB3g-00096-00020295-00020511 modest in its effects on weight loss
GDUq6bVCB3g-00097-00020512-00020791 however it has shown to reduce fat in
GDUq6bVCB3g-00098-00020792-00021022 the blood which can reduce oxidative
GDUq6bVCB3g-00099-00021023-00021230 stress and that means that it could have
GDUq6bVCB3g-00100-00021231-00021399 positive effects on the heart in other
GDUq6bVCB3g-00101-00021400-00021614 factors of health such as diabetes
GDUq6bVCB3g-00102-00021615-00021863 insulin sensitivity
GDUq6bVCB3g-00103-00021864-00022039 another notable ingredient is green
GDUq6bVCB3g-00104-00022040-00022199 coffee now don't worry lean bean does
GDUq6bVCB3g-00105-00022200-00022383 not have a lot of caffeine in fact it's
GDUq6bVCB3g-00106-00022384-00022550 less than 10 milligrams per day so if
GDUq6bVCB3g-00107-00022551-00022783 you're sensitive no worries but green
GDUq6bVCB3g-00108-00022784-00022983 coffee does also contain a chemical
GDUq6bVCB3g-00109-00022984-00023239 called chlorogenic acid which may help
GDUq6bVCB3g-00110-00023240-00023471 with blood sugar blood pressure and it
GDUq6bVCB3g-00111-00023472-00023655 may also boost metabolism which you know
GDUq6bVCB3g-00112-00023656-00023839 is important for weight loss
GDUq6bVCB3g-00113-00023840-00024078 and then we have turmeric which is an
GDUq6bVCB3g-00114-00024079-00024303 herb that you also use for cooking but
GDUq6bVCB3g-00115-00024304-00024511 it has a lot of antioxidant and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00116-00024512-00024719 anti-inflammatory properties and that's
GDUq6bVCB3g-00117-00024720-00024911 just for just good for keeping the body
GDUq6bVCB3g-00118-00024912-00025119 healthy in general
GDUq6bVCB3g-00119-00025120-00025350 you can also find 20 milligrams of acai
GDUq6bVCB3g-00120-00025351-00025550 barium lean bean which contains plant
GDUq6bVCB3g-00121-00025551-00025743 chemicals called anthocyanins that have
GDUq6bVCB3g-00122-00025744-00026006 antioxidant properties antioxidants help
GDUq6bVCB3g-00123-00026007-00026206 the body to stave off disease causing
GDUq6bVCB3g-00124-00026207-00026583 free radicals in addition acai berry may
GDUq6bVCB3g-00125-00026583-00026767 help to boost the brain have
GDUq6bVCB3g-00126-00026768-00027055 neuroprotective benefits and it may also
GDUq6bVCB3g-00127-00027056-00027255 help to improve cholesterol but more
GDUq6bVCB3g-00128-00027256-00027439 studies are needed on the potential
GDUq6bVCB3g-00129-00027439-00027646 effects for weight loss
GDUq6bVCB3g-00130-00027647-00027831 lean bean also contains some black
GDUq6bVCB3g-00131-00027832-00028079 pepper extract which has been shown to
GDUq6bVCB3g-00132-00028080-00028174 improve
GDUq6bVCB3g-00133-00028175-00028374 the absorption of certain nutrients so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00134-00028375-00028535 that is certainly a good addition as
GDUq6bVCB3g-00135-00028536-00028695 well
GDUq6bVCB3g-00136-00028695-00028879 in addition you also get a healthy dose
GDUq6bVCB3g-00137-00028880-00029087 of a few essential vitamins and minerals
GDUq6bVCB3g-00138-00029088-00029455 such as b6 b12 trolling zinc chromium
GDUq6bVCB3g-00139-00029456-00029679 potassium now these are all just really
GDUq6bVCB3g-00140-00029680-00029870 good for maintaining overall good health
GDUq6bVCB3g-00141-00029872-00030031 such as you know the nervous system
GDUq6bVCB3g-00142-00030032-00030167 brain health
GDUq6bVCB3g-00143-00030168-00030407 red blood cells metabolism nervous
GDUq6bVCB3g-00144-00030408-00030767 system insulin sensitivity immune system
GDUq6bVCB3g-00145-00030768-00030958 and on and on so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00146-00030960-00031143 that is that and then you have a few
GDUq6bVCB3g-00147-00031144-00031351 other ingredients such as rice flour
GDUq6bVCB3g-00148-00031352-00031558 micro crystalline cellulose magnesium
GDUq6bVCB3g-00149-00031560-00031743 steri and hyper mellows now these are
GDUq6bVCB3g-00150-00031744-00031951 probably added in very small amounts so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00151-00031952-00032262 nothing to really worry about there
GDUq6bVCB3g-00152-00032263-00032414 now let's talk about the pros and cons
GDUq6bVCB3g-00153-00032416-00032631 of lean beans so my pros are that it
GDUq6bVCB3g-00154-00032632-00032815 does contain natural ingredients which i
GDUq6bVCB3g-00155-00032816-00032943 think is especially good with the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00156-00032944-00033159 women's fat burner supplements then
GDUq6bVCB3g-00157-00033160-00033327 there are several ingredients in lean
GDUq6bVCB3g-00158-00033328-00033527 bean that have shown in studies to help
GDUq6bVCB3g-00159-00033528-00033783 support fat loss and health and then
GDUq6bVCB3g-00160-00033784-00033974 it's very low stimulants as mentioned
GDUq6bVCB3g-00161-00033975-00034127 there are less than 10 milligrams of
GDUq6bVCB3g-00162-00034128-00034318 caffeine per day so you shouldn't
GDUq6bVCB3g-00163-00034319-00034511 experience those jitters or or have the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00164-00034512-00034759 crash afterward and it's a good option
GDUq6bVCB3g-00165-00034760-00034974 for those who are sensitive to caffeine
GDUq6bVCB3g-00166-00034975-00035118 but it should still provide you with
GDUq6bVCB3g-00167-00035119-00035327 enough of an energy boost and to help
GDUq6bVCB3g-00168-00035328-00035479 boost your metabolism so that you can
GDUq6bVCB3g-00169-00035480-00035702 burn those extra few calories
GDUq6bVCB3g-00170-00035703-00035871 it's third party tested for purity and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00171-00035872-00036087 potency so you know exactly how much of
GDUq6bVCB3g-00172-00036088-00036327 each ingredient you're getting it's also
GDUq6bVCB3g-00173-00036328-00036543 very good for vegan people so it's vegan
GDUq6bVCB3g-00174-00036544-00036774 friendly and then it contains no gluten
GDUq6bVCB3g-00175-00036775-00037030 or soy if that matters to you
GDUq6bVCB3g-00176-00037031-00037271 as far as my my cons go i would have to
GDUq6bVCB3g-00177-00037272-00037439 say that a few of the ingredients aren't
GDUq6bVCB3g-00178-00037440-00037646 as research back when it comes to
GDUq6bVCB3g-00179-00037647-00037862 helping to support fat loss however they
GDUq6bVCB3g-00180-00037863-00038079 did make up for it in their health
GDUq6bVCB3g-00181-00038080-00038335 promoting property such as acai berry
GDUq6bVCB3g-00182-00038336-00038599 and garcinia cambogia so i feel like
GDUq6bVCB3g-00183-00038600-00038790 none of the ingredients were wasted at
GDUq6bVCB3g-00184-00038791-00039023 all or are useless
GDUq6bVCB3g-00185-00039024-00039183 then another con might be that you have
GDUq6bVCB3g-00186-00039184-00039318 to take it three times per day which
GDUq6bVCB3g-00187-00039319-00039502 could be you know kind of inconvenient
GDUq6bVCB3g-00188-00039503-00039687 for some people but you know it's a
GDUq6bVCB3g-00189-00039688-00039871 small price to pay if it is helping you
GDUq6bVCB3g-00190-00039872-00040111 to lose that body fat and body weight
GDUq6bVCB3g-00191-00040112-00040318 and then my last con would be that
GDUq6bVCB3g-00192-00040319-00040590 because it doesn't contain glucomannan
GDUq6bVCB3g-00193-00040591-00040759 that swells up a lot it could cause
GDUq6bVCB3g-00194-00040760-00040918 choking if you don't drink enough water
GDUq6bVCB3g-00195-00040919-00041174 afterwards so just uh make sure of that
GDUq6bVCB3g-00196-00041175-00041343 make sure to drink enough water so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00197-00041344-00041583 that's uh that's not a possibility so
GDUq6bVCB3g-00198-00041584-00041895 that would have to be my pros and cons
GDUq6bVCB3g-00199-00041896-00042071 okay so who should take a lean bean and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00200-00042072-00042223 would i recommend it well i would say if
GDUq6bVCB3g-00201-00042224-00042446 you're a healthy individual a healthy
GDUq6bVCB3g-00202-00042447-00042702 female of course males can take it too
GDUq6bVCB3g-00203-00042703-00042887 if it does seem like it could benefit
GDUq6bVCB3g-00204-00042888-00043127 you in some way but it is very low
GDUq6bVCB3g-00205-00043128-00043287 stimulant which is very attractive to a
GDUq6bVCB3g-00206-00043288-00043574 lot of people and glucomannan is
GDUq6bVCB3g-00207-00043575-00043751 actually approved for its use by the
GDUq6bVCB3g-00208-00043752-00043990 european food safety authority but i
GDUq6bVCB3g-00209-00043991-00044111 would definitely say that you should
GDUq6bVCB3g-00210-00044112-00044383 have realistic expectations you know you
GDUq6bVCB3g-00211-00044384-00044567 do need to have a good diet and a good
GDUq6bVCB3g-00212-00044568-00044790 training routine in combination with any
GDUq6bVCB3g-00213-00044791-00045015 supplement because no supplement will do
GDUq6bVCB3g-00214-00045016-00045223 all the work on its own and would i
GDUq6bVCB3g-00215-00045224-00045374 recommend it i would definitely say that
GDUq6bVCB3g-00216-00045375-00045599 the ingredients seem very intriguing and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00217-00045600-00045830 i've done my research and the studies
GDUq6bVCB3g-00218-00045831-00046055 seem to support their use so i would say
GDUq6bVCB3g-00219-00046056-00046239 that you should definitely go for it if
GDUq6bVCB3g-00220-00046240-00046495 you want to have a very low stimulant
GDUq6bVCB3g-00221-00046496-00046679 weight loss option that could help you
GDUq6bVCB3g-00222-00046680-00046999 in combination with a good lifestyle
GDUq6bVCB3g-00223-00047000-00047158 if you like this video a thumbs up is
GDUq6bVCB3g-00224-00047159-00047327 always appreciated and don't forget to
GDUq6bVCB3g-00225-00047328-00047535 subscribe to our channel to be notified
GDUq6bVCB3g-00226-00047536-00047735 when we upload new product reviews and
GDUq6bVCB3g-00227-00047736-00047984 other content
GGct48LmmF0-00000-00000000-00000182 i even had to fight to be able to start
GGct48LmmF0-00001-00000183-00000375 studying it had to do with my from my
GGct48LmmF0-00002-00000376-00000543 parents because i stopped me at grade
GGct48LmmF0-00003-00000544-00000671 six
GGct48LmmF0-00004-00000672-00000943 and then my husband which was the same
GGct48LmmF0-00005-00000944-00001023 that
GGct48LmmF0-00006-00001024-00001223 you're too old you're not good enough
GGct48LmmF0-00007-00001224-00001431 you're so many things i knew i could do
GGct48LmmF0-00008-00001432-00001543 better
GGct48LmmF0-00009-00001544-00001830 it was just a normal day in uni and
GGct48LmmF0-00010-00001832-00002102 the whole team of business educators
GGct48LmmF0-00011-00002103-00002439 came right on top of me as i was typing
GGct48LmmF0-00012-00002440-00002639 and said that we believe that you should
GGct48LmmF0-00013-00002640-00003079 be nominated i heard you started crying
GGct48LmmF0-00014-00003080-00003215 i didn't believe it
GGct48LmmF0-00015-00003215-00003575 i have worked really hard for it
GGct48LmmF0-00016-00003576-00003727 and
GGct48LmmF0-00017-00003728-00004070 especially at this age because
GGct48LmmF0-00018-00004071-00004231 life problems did not allow me to study
GGct48LmmF0-00019-00004232-00004543 earlier and i was thirsty to learn i
GGct48LmmF0-00020-00004544-00004767 have proven to myself that the things
GGct48LmmF0-00021-00004768-00004967 that i want to achieve i never give up
GGct48LmmF0-00022-00004968-00005127 on them and i work hard until i get
GGct48LmmF0-00023-00005128-00005291 there
GGct48LmmF0-00024-00005292-00005466 [Music]
GGct48LmmF0-00025-00005467-00005618 [Applause]
GGct48LmmF0-00026-00005619-00006175 [Music]
GGct48LmmF0-00027-00006176-00006384 you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00000-00000016-00000335 today on an all-new dr phil the dispute
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00001-00000336-00000607 over gender pronouns i don't identify
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00002-00000608-00000831 exclusively with being a man or woman i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00003-00000832-00001015 use they and them as my pronouns you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00004-00001016-00001158 don't get your own pronouns you think
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00005-00001159-00001295 it's a delusion
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00006-00001296-00001535 in school our kids are being asked what
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00007-00001536-00001782 their pronoun is this is a war on gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00008-00001784-00002102 babies are babies without a known sex
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00009-00002103-00002287 when they were born we did not assign a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00010-00002288-00002510 sex you think it's toxic to label the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00011-00002511-00002815 child one way or the other
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00012-00002816-00003055 well i have a question raise your hand
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00013-00003056-00003359 if you have heard of gender pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00014-00003360-00003527 such as he she
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00015-00003528-00003719 or they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00016-00003720-00003799 and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00017-00003800-00003879 z
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00018-00003879-00004103 or v
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00019-00004104-00004263 raise your hand
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00020-00004264-00004519 if you're confused about how to use them
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00021-00004520-00004870 in today's social climate
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00022-00004871-00005135 yeah i'm asking these questions because
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00023-00005136-00005406 approximately 1.2 million people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00024-00005407-00005759 in the u.s identify as non-binary
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00025-00005760-00006199 meaning they don't identify as she or he
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00026-00006200-00006351 but they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00027-00006352-00006534 and other pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00028-00006536-00006798 now as society's attitudes about gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00029-00006800-00007039 are continuously evolving
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00030-00007040-00007239 the practice of specifying one's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00031-00007240-00007527 pronouns is relatively new
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00032-00007528-00007783 now i just want to say
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00033-00007784-00008014 i don't have all the answers not even
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00034-00008015-00008127 close
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00035-00008128-00008374 but i'm totally open to learning and i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00036-00008375-00008551 want this to be a safe place to talk
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00037-00008552-00008751 about and learn
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00038-00008752-00008959 but not every person is on board with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00039-00008960-00009135 this new movement
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00040-00009136-00009391 half of americans say they feel very or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00041-00009392-00009567 somewhat comfortable
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00042-00009568-00009806 using gender neutral pronouns while 48
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00043-00009807-00010071 percent say they feel very
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00044-00010072-00010406 or somewhat uncomfortable using them
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00045-00010407-00010614 now this growing debate regarding the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00046-00010615-00010871 use of pronouns has this country pretty
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00047-00010872-00011078 divided take a look
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00048-00011079-00011287 controversy tonight over a new policy on
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00049-00011288-00011599 how gender identity is addressed
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00050-00011600-00011719 you may notice that at the bottom of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00051-00011720-00011927 your emails or in zoom meetings the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00052-00011928-00012135 listing of pronouns next to someone's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00053-00012136-00012423 name when should you use the pronouns he
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00054-00012424-00012623 him or she hers
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00055-00012624-00012927 ucla's wilson institute estimates just
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00056-00012928-00013211 under one half of one percent of us are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00057-00013212-00013486 non-binary meaning neither male nor
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00058-00013487-00013775 female or identify with the gender not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00059-00013776-00013951 assigned at birth
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00060-00013952-00014151 point park university in the middle of a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00061-00014152-00014422 national dispute over pronouns point
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00062-00014423-00014638 park warns students if they use the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00063-00014640-00014863 wrong pronouns on a student if an
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00064-00014863-00015175 individual is impacted in a harmful way
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00065-00015176-00015366 action could be taken
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00066-00015368-00015607 a kindergarten teacher is facing outrage
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00067-00015608-00015815 after discussing gender identity with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00068-00015816-00016038 her students the kindergartners came
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00069-00016040-00016294 home very confused about whether or not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00070-00016295-00016479 you can pick your gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00071-00016480-00016663 whether or not they really were a boy or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00072-00016664-00016871 a girl many parents say they feel
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00073-00016872-00017094 betrayed and blindsided i want her to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00074-00017095-00017303 hear from me as a parent
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00075-00017304-00017615 what her gender identity means to her my
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00076-00017616-00017855 daughter went home crying shaking so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00077-00017856-00018049 afraid that she could turn into a boy
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00078-00018050-00018175 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00079-00018176-00018375 well there's no denying it gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00080-00018376-00018719 pronouns are a big topic of conversation
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00081-00018720-00018943 that cannot and should not be ignored
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00082-00018944-00019207 and my first guest addison and ethan
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00083-00019208-00019407 have a lot to say
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00084-00019408-00019655 i'm addison and i'm ethan we've been
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00085-00019656-00019879 together for about five years and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00086-00019880-00020111 married for three years
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00087-00020112-00020294 i use they them pronouns being
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00088-00020295-00020511 non-binary just means that i just don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00089-00020512-00020678 identify with the gender i was assigned
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00090-00020679-00020814 at birth and i don't identify
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00091-00020815-00021063 exclusively with being a man or woman
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00092-00021064-00021255 i'm something in between outside of that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00093-00021256-00021375 binary
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00094-00021376-00021558 my pronouns are here they i also
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00095-00021559-00021775 identify as a non-binary to me being
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00096-00021776-00021999 non-binary means having the sense of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00097-00022000-00022199 freedom to explore my gender in
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00098-00022200-00022422 whichever way i want i don't have to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00099-00022423-00022671 perform or pretend to be someone i'm not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00100-00022672-00022886 i can be my authentic self it's really
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00101-00022887-00023047 important for us to share more
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00102-00023048-00023207 information with people because people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00103-00023208-00023430 are curious they want to understand but
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00104-00023431-00023558 sometimes they don't always have the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00105-00023559-00023919 opportunities to do that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00106-00023920-00024071 welcome hi
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00107-00024072-00024222 you were watching the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00108-00024223-00024383 tape piece right
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00109-00024384-00024686 this is a hot topic yes that's a good
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00110-00024687-00024911 thing right yeah absolutely why is it a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00111-00024912-00025078 good thing
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00112-00025079-00025335 i guess because it creates dialogue and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00113-00025336-00025599 it invites conversation to learn about
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00114-00025600-00025767 other people yeah and i think a lot of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00115-00025768-00025943 people are really confused about gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00116-00025944-00026150 identity in these times and it's good
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00117-00026151-00026295 for us to have these conversations so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00118-00026295-00026495 people open their minds and relearn and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00119-00026495-00026743 unlearn to what we've been taught right
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00120-00026744-00026967 and addison many people think gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00121-00026968-00027414 pronouns are exclusive to the lgbtq
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00122-00027416-00027583 plus community
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00123-00027583-00027670 but
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00124-00027672-00027879 that's a misconception true well
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00125-00027880-00028111 everybody has pronouns like you may use
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00126-00028112-00028311 he and him as your pronouns right i use
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00127-00028312-00028535 they and them as my pronouns we all may
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00128-00028536-00028718 have a certain gender pronoun too but i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00129-00028719-00028823 think it's important for people to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00130-00028824-00029046 understand that for trans and non-binary
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00131-00029047-00029255 people we often change our pronouns to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00132-00029256-00029431 reflect who we are when we come out and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00133-00029432-00029670 be who we are how do you explain the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00134-00029672-00029935 difference between sex and gender i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00135-00029936-00030111 consider sex to be
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00136-00030112-00030383 our biological makeup our chromosomes or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00137-00030383-00030590 hormones our genitals is a biological
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00138-00030591-00030839 makeup but our gender is more of an
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00139-00030839-00031055 internal sense so think of it like this
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00140-00031056-00031255 sex is what's between the legs and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00141-00031256-00031431 gender is what's between the ears right
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00142-00031432-00031567 it's our how we see ourselves on the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00143-00031568-00031767 inside okay
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00144-00031768-00031855 and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00145-00031856-00032143 that's something somebody can't know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00146-00032144-00032311 gender is something somebody can't know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00147-00032312-00032543 just by looking at somebody nope yeah
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00148-00032544-00032751 because everyone is going to present and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00149-00032752-00032918 express themselves in a different way i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00150-00032919-00033046 know it's very confusing right
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00151-00033047-00033231 everyone's like what is going on but
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00152-00033232-00033415 it's really you know about us breaking
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00153-00033416-00033646 that assumption that we can tell
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00154-00033647-00033895 someone's identity someone's story their
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00155-00033896-00034127 pronouns even their name just based on
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00156-00034128-00034359 how they look right
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00157-00034360-00034623 yeah and so how does someone
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00158-00034624-00034918 ask how does somebody clarify that ethan
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00159-00034919-00035215 how would you what's the best way what's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00160-00035216-00035471 the most comfortable way i think for me
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00161-00035472-00035702 um to create a safe space for people to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00162-00035703-00035902 share their pronouns i will say hi my
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00163-00035903-00036167 name is ethan i use he are they pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00164-00036168-00036295 what about you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00165-00036296-00036446 i think it's really important for us to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00166-00036447-00036646 recognize other people's pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00167-00036647-00036799 because again we can't make that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00168-00036800-00037023 assumption but for so many people who
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00169-00037024-00037223 are cisgender meaning that you do
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00170-00037224-00037359 identify with the gender that you were
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00171-00037360-00037559 assigned at birth you're not transgender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00172-00037560-00037830 not non-binary i think a lot of people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00173-00037831-00038023 don't even question their pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00174-00038024-00038135 because we already used them and it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00175-00038136-00038311 already assumed correctly
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00176-00038312-00038455 but for so many trans and non-binary
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00177-00038456-00038662 people that isn't often assumed
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00178-00038663-00038830 correctly so we need to take the time to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00179-00038831-00039095 get to know people cisgender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00180-00039096-00039359 uh it says agity that describes a person
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00181-00039360-00039655 whose gender identity matches or aligns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00182-00039656-00039918 with the gender he or she was assigned
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00183-00039919-00040055 at birth
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00184-00040056-00040271 now this would be
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00185-00040272-00040535 what has been traditional
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00186-00040536-00040623 for
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00187-00040624-00040862 centuries right
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00188-00040863-00041039 why does it need a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00189-00041040-00041287 term you know if we don't use that term
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00190-00041288-00041527 then we end up saying maybe
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00191-00041528-00041839 real men or normal men or regular men
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00192-00041840-00042023 right or we don't we just say men and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00193-00042024-00042311 then we say maybe transgender men right
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00194-00042312-00042446 and the thing is is that we need to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00195-00042447-00042751 realize that trans women are women trans
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00196-00042752-00042967 men are men too and so we just want to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00197-00042968-00043143 have a term for that privilege that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00198-00043144-00043374 assumption that your gender identity is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00199-00043375-00043527 going to match the one that you were
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00200-00043528-00043727 assigned at birth all right then
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00201-00043728-00043958 transgender adjective describes a person
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00202-00043959-00044199 whose gender identity does not match or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00203-00044200-00044383 align with the gender they were assigned
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00204-00044384-00044502 at birth
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00205-00044503-00044774 and then non-binary describes a person
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00206-00044775-00045087 whose gender identity does not fit into
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00207-00045088-00045239 the traditional
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00208-00045240-00045558 binary of man or woman and that term can
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00209-00045559-00045639 be
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00210-00045640-00045871 abbreviated to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00211-00045872-00046174 and how do you pronounce that nb nb nd
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00212-00046175-00046283 yeah okay
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00213-00046284-00046455 and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00214-00046456-00046590 explain that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00215-00046591-00046855 for transgender people we are assigned a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00216-00046856-00047158 sex at birth and when
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00217-00047159-00047351 we grow up you know when there's a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00218-00047352-00047558 mismatch of how we view ourselves and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00219-00047559-00047727 how society views us
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00220-00047728-00047951 then we can choose to you know either
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00221-00047952-00048102 medically transition
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00222-00048103-00048407 or just socially transition or both
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00223-00048408-00048718 not every transgender person chooses to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00224-00048719-00048895 medically transition
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00225-00048896-00049158 for me i chose to medically transition
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00226-00049159-00049430 to feel comfortable in my own skin
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00227-00049431-00049551 and this is different from you know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00228-00049552-00049783 being non-binary and stuff too because
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00229-00049784-00049927 for many non-binary people they might
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00230-00049928-00050111 identify as trans because they don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00231-00050112-00050246 identify with that gender assigned at
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00232-00050247-00050455 birth but for a lot of non-binary people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00233-00050456-00050599 it means that you just don't exclusively
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00234-00050600-00050846 identify as a man or woman and under
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00235-00050847-00051046 that there's a whole umbrella of gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00236-00051047-00051230 identities where people might have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00237-00051232-00051438 pronouns that change day to day there
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00238-00051439-00051582 might be people who have one set of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00239-00051583-00051726 pronouns for the rest of their life you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00240-00051727-00051919 might have non-binary people too who are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00241-00051920-00052079 fluid with their gender identities in
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00242-00052079-00052342 itself it's very confusing very nuanced
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00243-00052344-00052463 but i think that what you were talking
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00244-00052464-00052671 about earlier with it being that maybe
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00245-00052672-00052950 traditionally for centuries people have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00246-00052951-00053142 identified with maybe the gender that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00247-00053144-00053311 they were assigned at birth when we look
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00248-00053312-00053519 at history and we look at cultures to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00249-00053520-00053759 around the world we see that third
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00250-00053760-00053911 fourth fifth genders have always been
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00251-00053912-00054119 around and in different cultures the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00252-00054120-00054382 idea of what gender is our relation to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00253-00054383-00054566 our bodies is completely different than
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00254-00054567-00054823 maybe here in the united states i have a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00255-00054824-00055038 gender pronoun chart
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00256-00055039-00055350 that i got really confused
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00257-00055351-00055526 about and i'm going to just i'm just
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00258-00055527-00055903 admitting straight up
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00259-00055904-00056047 this chart
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00260-00056048-00056238 i didn't know how to use the chart and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00261-00056239-00056359 we don't need to go through the whole
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00262-00056360-00056471 thing
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00263-00056472-00056599 but there were
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00264-00056600-00056799 like just using co
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00265-00056800-00056959 not all these pronouns i think i even
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00266-00056960-00057182 recognized too which is okay right i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00267-00057183-00057399 think at the end of the day too people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00268-00057400-00057638 will have different pronouns beyond he
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00269-00057639-00057863 or she or even they which you know i use
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00270-00057864-00058071 in a singular context for myself but as
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00271-00058072-00058294 you can see there's an ongoing evolution
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00272-00058295-00058519 of language and how people can identify
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00273-00058520-00058671 if you're unsure how to use someone's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00274-00058672-00058871 pronouns after that person has disclosed
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00275-00058872-00059103 what their pronouns are just ask you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00276-00059104-00059263 know clarify i just want to make sure
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00277-00059264-00059423 that i'm using your pronouns in the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00278-00059424-00059694 correct way do you know what x i e so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00279-00059695-00059838 you say z
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00280-00059839-00059942 you see
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00281-00059944-00060191 but then there is a z right below
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00282-00060191-00060350 there's different ways to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00283-00060351-00060511 spell and pronounce pronouns it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00284-00060512-00060654 complicated and nuanced but it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00285-00060655-00060871 important for us to understand that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00286-00060872-00060991 complexity
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00287-00060991-00061247 my next guest has been criticized online
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00288-00061248-00061526 for his views about gender identity uh
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00289-00061527-00061821 his reply may surprise you that's next
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00290-00061822-00062375 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00291-00062376-00062550 you don't get your own pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00292-00062551-00062799 so you think it's a delusion if they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00293-00062800-00063015 decide that they're different than they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00294-00063016-00063238 were biologically created yeah i think
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00295-00063239-00063415 it's it's delusion it could be mental
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00296-00063416-00063841 illness
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00297-00063841-00064023 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00298-00064024-00064223 my name is matt walsh and i've written a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00299-00064224-00064471 book called johnny the walrus this book
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00300-00064472-00064750 is about identity and imagination he
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00301-00064751-00064982 identifies as a walrus and his mom's a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00302-00064983-00065135 little silly she takes it seriously and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00303-00065136-00065319 thinks he really is a walrus so she went
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00304-00065320-00065454 on her phone and there are people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00305-00065455-00065599 telling her that this isn't pretend he's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00306-00065600-00065782 really a walrus and his mother takes him
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00307-00065783-00065926 to the doctor to have him surgically
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00308-00065927-00066159 transitioned and gets him walrus hormone
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00309-00066160-00066359 pills and then eventually tries to drop
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00310-00066360-00066479 him off at a zoo to live with other
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00311-00066480-00066694 walruses not only topping the amazon
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00312-00066695-00066903 charts my book has taken the world by
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00313-00066904-00066999 storm
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00314-00067000-00067159 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00315-00067160-00067375 well you just saw my next guest author
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00316-00067376-00067599 and conservative host of daily wires the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00317-00067600-00067823 matt walsh show talking about his
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00318-00067824-00068031 recently published children's book that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00319-00068032-00068303 has since been removed online
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00320-00068304-00068591 by a popular large retail chain
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00321-00068592-00068919 now matt says gender is not a social
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00322-00068920-00069335 construct but rooted firmly in biology
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00323-00069336-00069423 true
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00324-00069424-00069567 true absolutely well
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00325-00069568-00069663 actually
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00326-00069664-00069855 just to clarify uh and with all due
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00327-00069856-00069991 respect but most of what we just heard
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00328-00069992-00070231 in the previous segment was total
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00329-00070232-00070382 nonsense which is why when you were
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00330-00070383-00070606 pushing for definitions and that sort of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00331-00070607-00070743 thing they were not able to provide it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00332-00070744-00070926 because it's just nonsensical
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00333-00070927-00071135 sex well as human beings we have a sex
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00334-00071136-00071343 male or female that is a biological
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00335-00071344-00071543 scientific fact now gender is a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00336-00071544-00071703 linguistic term
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00337-00071704-00071943 words have gender people don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00338-00071944-00072199 you're saying that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00339-00072200-00072503 there should be no construct of gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00340-00072504-00072703 just sex you're either male or female
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00341-00072704-00072882 right and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00342-00072883-00073126 someone feeling
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00343-00073127-00073367 in a mental emotional way
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00344-00073368-00073615 that they don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00345-00073616-00074087 identify with the sex that they have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00346-00074088-00074431 been biologically created as and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00347-00074432-00074711 assigned at birth based on their
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00348-00074712-00074847 genitalia
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00349-00074848-00075119 if they don't feel that way that there's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00350-00075120-00075382 no construct that describes that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00351-00075383-00075559 experiences that well that's got nothing
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00352-00075560-00075687 to do with the realities you can feel
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00353-00075688-00075831 however you want i mean i could sit here
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00354-00075832-00076094 and say that i feel like a tomato plant
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00355-00076095-00076255 but that doesn't mean they're actually
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00356-00076256-00076415 in those things so your your
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00357-00076416-00076567 self-perception you can have whatever
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00358-00076568-00076767 self-perception you want but you can't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00359-00076768-00076887 expect me
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00360-00076888-00077094 to take part in that self-perception or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00361-00077095-00077255 to take part in this kind of charade
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00362-00077256-00077455 this theatrical production
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00363-00077456-00077591 you don't get your own pronouns just
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00364-00077592-00077743 like you don't get your own prepositions
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00365-00077744-00077935 or your own your own adjectives you know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00366-00077936-00078182 it's like if i were to tell you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00367-00078183-00078423 my adjectives are handsome and brilliant
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00368-00078424-00078550 and no matter whatever you're talking
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00369-00078551-00078726 about me you have to describe me as
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00370-00078727-00078838 handsome and brilliant because that's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00371-00078839-00079015 how i identify makes no sense you don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00372-00079016-00079231 get your own pronouns these are that's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00373-00079232-00079431 that's grammar that's language so you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00374-00079432-00079599 think it's a delusion
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00375-00079600-00079831 someone is self-delusional yeah i think
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00376-00079832-00080006 it's it's delusion it could be a mental
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00377-00080007-00080119 illness it could be it's a lot of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00378-00080120-00080326 different things with children you know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00379-00080327-00080559 there's also just a basic confusion that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00380-00080560-00080711 all kids have like that's why when you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00381-00080712-00080815 hear
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00382-00080816-00080991 when you hear someone a parent say oh my
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00383-00080992-00081119 four-year-old
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00384-00081120-00081350 son came to me and said that i'm a girl
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00385-00081351-00081526 now and so that's what i'm gonna i'm
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00386-00081527-00081743 gonna raise him as a girl no you're a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00387-00081744-00081911 four-year-old i have four kids
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00388-00081912-00082062 when a four-year-old boy comes to you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00389-00082063-00082223 and says oh i'm a girl here's a good
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00390-00082224-00082415 follow-up question
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00391-00082416-00082550 what is a girl
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00392-00082551-00082679 ask him what he means by that what do
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00393-00082680-00082823 you mean by a girl and when you ask him
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00394-00082824-00082999 that here's what he'll tell you he will
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00395-00083000-00083223 tell you what he really means is that he
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00396-00083224-00083431 he wants to do some of the things that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00397-00083432-00083671 girls do like play with the dollhouse or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00398-00083672-00083838 or you know he likes the color pink
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00399-00083839-00084047 that's fine play with a dollhouse but
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00400-00084048-00084271 you're still a boy that's a question i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00401-00084272-00084399 would like to throw out to you know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00402-00084400-00084582 other members of the panel actually
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00403-00084583-00084711 because just like the four-year-old
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00404-00084712-00084879 can't answer what is a girl
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00405-00084880-00084991 well this is one of the problems with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00406-00084992-00085159 this left-wing gender ideology is that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00407-00085160-00085375 no one who espouses it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00408-00085376-00085535 can even tell you what these words mean
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00409-00085536-00085726 it's like what is a woman
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00410-00085727-00085894 can you tell me what a woman is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00411-00085895-00086062 no i can't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00412-00086063-00086279 because it's not for me to say i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00413-00086280-00086479 womanhood looks different for everybody
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00414-00086480-00086623 what do you what do you define a woman
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00415-00086624-00086862 as an adult human female and what does a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00416-00086863-00087038 female mean
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00417-00087039-00087223 uh how do you define someone with with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00418-00087224-00087423 female reproductive organs
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00419-00087424-00087591 okay someone who's you know here's the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00420-00087592-00087718 thing when you're when you're female it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00421-00087719-00087935 goes right down to your bones your dna
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00422-00087936-00088111 so that's why if someone
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00423-00088112-00088326 dies okay we could dig up their bones a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00424-00088327-00088494 hundred years from now we have no idea
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00425-00088495-00088631 what they believed in their head but we
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00426-00088632-00088831 can tell what sex they were because it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00427-00088832-00089087 in it's down in it's it's ingrained in
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00428-00089088-00089271 every fiber of their being interesting
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00429-00089272-00089431 so i'm trying to understand your
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00430-00089432-00089606 definition is that a woman is someone
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00431-00089607-00089871 who is female you said right correct is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00432-00089872-00090071 a biological female so what happens if
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00433-00090072-00090359 we have maybe someone who is female
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00434-00090360-00090487 identifies as a woman right you know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00435-00090488-00090671 cisgender woman right as you explain as
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00436-00090672-00090823 you just explained
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00437-00090824-00090975 maybe doesn't have the ability to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00438-00090976-00091135 reproduce
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00439-00091136-00091303 maybe doesn't have those organs that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00440-00091304-00091375 you're talking about that are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00441-00091376-00091559 reproductive organs i have answered the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00442-00091560-00091679 question
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00443-00091680-00091887 you stood up here and said trans women
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00444-00091888-00092087 are women yes tell me what you mean what
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00445-00092088-00092294 is a womanhood is something that just as
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00446-00092295-00092487 ethan explained i cannot define because
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00447-00092488-00092679 i am not myself so what did you mean
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00448-00092680-00092806 when you said trans women are women if
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00449-00092807-00092950 you don't know what it means right so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00450-00092951-00093191 here's the thing so i do not define what
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00451-00093192-00093382 a woman is because i do not identify as
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00452-00093383-00093606 a woman womanhood is something that is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00453-00093607-00093871 an umbrella term it includes people that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00454-00093872-00094087 describes what
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00455-00094088-00094359 people who identify as a woman i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00456-00094360-00094718 identify as what as a woman what is that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00457-00094719-00094974 what's to each their own each woman each
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00458-00094975-00095150 man each person is going to have a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00459-00095151-00095294 different relation with their own gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00460-00095295-00095462 identity and define it differently and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00461-00095463-00095615 so trans women
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00462-00095616-00095781 are women too
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00463-00095782-00096391 [Applause]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00464-00096392-00096526 so you want to reduce women you want to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00465-00096527-00096743 reduce men down to maybe just their
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00466-00096744-00096950 genetics our genitals our chromosomes
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00467-00096951-00097047 right that's what you're what you want
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00468-00097048-00097206 to do is that's what you what you want
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00469-00097207-00097415 to do is appropriate women you want to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00470-00097416-00097647 appropriate womanhood okay and turn it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00471-00097648-00097815 into basically a costume that could be
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00472-00097816-00098047 worn we've got when we've it's real
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00473-00098048-00098855 funny
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00474-00098856-00099006 because i am willing to define it but
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00475-00099007-00099199 you won't hang on we've heard how matt
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00476-00099200-00099399 feels about pronouns but my next guest
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00477-00099400-00099631 says those who oppose them are asking
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00478-00099632-00099894 the wrong questions what does she say
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00479-00099895-00100038 are the right ones we'll add her to the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00480-00100039-00100220 conversation when we come back
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00481-00100221-00100767 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00482-00100768-00100894 you can laugh all you want but this is a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00483-00100895-00101150 logical problem you are conflating sex
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00484-00101151-00101374 and gender there's biological sex and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00485-00101375-00101615 then there is gender identity part of me
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00486-00101616-00102172 wants to ask why you care so much
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00487-00102173-00102287 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00488-00102288-00102478 some people go by he some people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00489-00102479-00102830 actually use uh the pronoun they i'm not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00490-00102831-00103151 a sheep i'm not a he either it's really
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00491-00103152-00103366 about what sort of feels good to our
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00492-00103367-00103630 ears when we hear it i refuse to use
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00493-00103631-00103799 pronouns that do not apply to biological
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00494-00103800-00104015 sex pronouns are important
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00495-00104016-00104199 because they indicate a degree of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00496-00104200-00104486 respect you can avoid mistakes by just
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00497-00104488-00104694 saying them theirs they if you're unsure
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00498-00104695-00104854 about somebody's pronoun ask you know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00499-00104855-00105023 hey what are your pronouns you cannot
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00500-00105024-00105102 force
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00501-00105103-00105343 people to call you what you want to be
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00502-00105344-00105558 called their gender is still valid
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00503-00105559-00105702 regardless of whether or not you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00504-00105703-00106015 understand it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00505-00106016-00106175 we've been talking about the great
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00506-00106176-00106375 gender pronoun debate that has the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00507-00106376-00106686 country divided just almost 50 50. last
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00508-00106688-00106902 segment matt made his case
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00509-00106903-00107199 against people using what are called
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00510-00107200-00107454 their own pronouns but my next guest
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00511-00107455-00107831 says the opposition is taking the wrong
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00512-00107832-00107943 approach
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00513-00107944-00108223 joining us on stage is dr susie denbo
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00514-00108224-00108431 associate professor at kent state
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00515-00108432-00108727 university with a phd in communications
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00516-00108728-00109102 and expertise in gender sex and feminism
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00517-00109103-00109327 now kent state has been recognized among
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00518-00109328-00109483 the nation's most
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00519-00109483-00109919 lgbtq plus friendly universities now
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00520-00109920-00110110 doctors thank you for being here yeah
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00521-00110111-00110286 i'm glad to be here uh you've been
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00522-00110288-00110431 listening to everything that we've been
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00523-00110432-00110671 talking about so dr denver how do you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00524-00110672-00110758 feel
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00525-00110759-00111071 those who oppose using pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00526-00111072-00111278 are taking the wrong approach
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00527-00111279-00111566 in this conversation i think there's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00528-00111567-00111743 there's the extreme approach that you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00529-00111744-00111934 are admittedly taking um and then
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00530-00111935-00112127 there's also just ordinary people that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00531-00112128-00112310 might not be comfortable with the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00532-00112311-00112543 language change and it just is awkward
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00533-00112544-00112719 and so they're afraid of not being
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00534-00112720-00112919 courteous or being accepting so there's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00535-00112920-00113086 like these two things there's actually
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00536-00113088-00113327 combating and not being you don't like
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00537-00113328-00113590 transgender the idea of transgender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00538-00113591-00113790 that's different than pronouns but then
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00539-00113791-00114054 just for most people it's just
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00540-00114055-00114223 feeling a little bit awkward and unsure
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00541-00114224-00114407 and not wanting to hurt or offend
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00542-00114408-00114558 somebody
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00543-00114559-00114839 well why is it important for educators
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00544-00114840-00115119 to teach about gender identity
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00545-00115120-00115343 gender presentation and pronouns why do
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00546-00115344-00115590 you think that's important because there
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00547-00115591-00115775 there is a difference there is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00548-00115776-00115999 biological sex and a lot of times people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00549-00116000-00116239 are conflating sex and gender so there's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00550-00116240-00116439 biological sex and then there's gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00551-00116440-00116607 and that's a social construct in the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00552-00116608-00116727 sense that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00553-00116728-00116919 just because you're born biologically a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00554-00116920-00117143 female doesn't mean you automatically
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00555-00117144-00117310 want to vacuum for instance which is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00556-00117311-00117495 usually a feminine
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00557-00117496-00117775 activity or conflated that way
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00558-00117776-00118054 and so it's this idea of giving children
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00559-00118055-00118295 uh in age-appropriate ways
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00560-00118296-00118463 an understanding that you can that these
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00561-00118464-00118599 things aren't set in stone gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00562-00118600-00118871 identity is not tied to biology you say
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00563-00118872-00119151 that gender is not set in stone
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00564-00119152-00119271 uh
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00565-00119272-00119407 what do you mean
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00566-00119408-00119558 i mean i mean that's just factually
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00567-00119559-00119783 incorrect uh saying that so you have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00568-00119783-00120054 biology is the chromosomal makeup and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00569-00120055-00120319 and reproductive organs and all of that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00570-00120320-00120463 um and so that would be sort of the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00571-00120464-00120710 nature side of things but the nurture
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00572-00120711-00120910 side of things is where we see more of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00573-00120911-00121158 gender identities she began by saying
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00574-00121159-00121407 that my view is extreme okay so the view
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00575-00121408-00121607 that every single person on earth has
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00576-00121608-00121799 held up until 15 seconds ago is extreme
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00577-00121800-00121927 and the view that almost everyone does
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00578-00121928-00122078 right now still still hold his extreme
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00579-00122079-00122286 apparently according to her but
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00580-00122288-00122399 there is this
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00581-00122400-00122590 they are conflating gender and sex
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00582-00122591-00122727 because on one hand they say well you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00583-00122728-00122895 got your biological sex but then your
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00584-00122896-00123095 gender is whatever social construct but
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00585-00123096-00123239 then they turn around and say that trans
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00586-00123240-00123566 women are women so a man who who
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00587-00123567-00123783 identifies with the with the the gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00588-00123783-00123966 the social construct of womanhood
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00589-00123967-00124214 actually is a woman so if you can't you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00590-00124215-00124366 can laugh what you want but you are this
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00591-00124367-00124614 is a logical problem you are conflating
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00592-00124615-00124854 sex and gender just by saying that so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00593-00124855-00125063 that's the problem there's biological
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00594-00125064-00125334 sex and then there is gender identity
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00595-00125335-00125502 part of me wants to ask why you care so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00596-00125503-00125719 much uh because it's really not that big
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00597-00125720-00125871 of a deal oh yeah
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00598-00125872-00126110 um i i loved it i'd love to answer that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00599-00126111-00126366 question i care about the truth so so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00600-00126367-00126519 basic truth matters i want to live in a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00601-00126520-00126631 society where people care about the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00602-00126632-00126799 truth and we're grounded in truth um i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00603-00126800-00127007 care about children and this these
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00604-00127008-00127207 insane ideas about gender are being are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00605-00127208-00127390 being foisted on kids
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00606-00127391-00127631 um and that that bothers me quite a bit
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00607-00127632-00127775 i care about the women who are having
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00608-00127776-00127999 their opportunities stolen from them i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00609-00128000-00128231 care quite a bit yeah you are a champion
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00610-00128232-00128414 for women i'm more interested in
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00611-00128415-00128590 creating a productive space where we can
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00612-00128591-00128775 try to build some kind of an acceptance
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00613-00128776-00128983 around other people and exposing
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00614-00128983-00129158 children to gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00615-00129159-00129414 different ideas around gender identity i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00616-00129415-00129614 don't think is a problematic thing with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00617-00129615-00129847 parents being involved my next guests
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00618-00129848-00130095 are parents who say no way should
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00619-00130096-00130302 children learn about gender pronouns at
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00620-00130303-00130447 an early age
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00621-00130448-00130639 not under their watch they say if this
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00622-00130640-00130910 is going to happen it's the parents job
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00623-00130911-00131175 not teachers one pulled her kids out of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00624-00131176-00132047 school we'll meet them after the break
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00625-00132048-00132319 the entire gender pronoun situation
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00626-00132320-00132527 makes me feel very upset i don't want a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00627-00132528-00132783 teacher talking to my child about gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00628-00132784-00133047 pronouns it is not appropriate it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00629-00133048-00133254 crossing a line i feel like i'm ambushed
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00630-00133255-00133414 because now i'm explaining to my son he
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00631-00133415-00133590 asked me what does sexist mean as a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00632-00133591-00133807 parent i felt trapped i had to pull both
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00633-00133808-00134527 of my kids out of the school district
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00634-00134528-00134702 a loudoun county public schools teacher
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00635-00134703-00134919 is suing the district tanner cross is on
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00636-00134920-00135078 administrative leave he said he would
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00637-00135079-00135287 not call a student who's transgender by
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00638-00135288-00135487 their preferred pronoun i will not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00639-00135488-00135695 affirm that a biological boy can be a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00640-00135696-00135895 girl and vice versa because it's against
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00641-00135896-00136111 my religion it's lying to a child it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00642-00136112-00136335 abuse to a child cross was placed on
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00643-00136336-00136847 paid leave now he's suing the district
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00644-00136848-00137031 well you just saw a news clip about a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00645-00137032-00137247 teacher in virginia who was suspended
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00646-00137248-00137423 after opposing the school's gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00647-00137424-00137535 policy
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00648-00137536-00137807 now inclusion in schools is a major
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00649-00137808-00137999 topic of conversation because parents
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00650-00138000-00138159 and administrators
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00651-00138160-00138335 well they just don't always see eye to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00652-00138336-00138566 eye my next guests are two concerned
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00653-00138567-00138678 parents
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00654-00138679-00138951 with kids the same age
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00655-00138952-00139151 now they used to be in the same school
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00656-00139152-00139414 district until one mom pulled her
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00657-00139415-00139583 children out
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00658-00139584-00139751 so while they didn't know each other
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00659-00139752-00139999 before they have unified for the same
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00660-00140000-00140127 cause
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00661-00140128-00140327 i'm really concerned about what's going
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00662-00140328-00140599 on in school rooms across the country
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00663-00140600-00140871 the entire gender pronoun situation
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00664-00140872-00141095 makes me feel very upset people may
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00665-00141096-00141311 think that if you don't want to use the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00666-00141312-00141487 preferred pronouns that you're against
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00667-00141488-00141807 gay people this is 100 untrue i am a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00668-00141808-00142014 huge advocate for gay people trans
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00669-00142015-00142302 people and the like stacy and i both
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00670-00142303-00142439 have children in the same school
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00671-00142440-00142695 district i learned that the teachers in
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00672-00142696-00142919 my children's school were asking for the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00673-00142920-00143166 kids preferred pronouns in the classroom
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00674-00143167-00143414 when i heard about this it was extremely
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00675-00143415-00143639 upsetting last year my son was given a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00676-00143640-00143887 homework assignment i gave an example of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00677-00143888-00144166 a child not identifying with the gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00678-00144167-00144366 that they were born with is an example
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00679-00144367-00144551 of the homework that was given to my
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00680-00144552-00144775 eight-year-old son if a student is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00681-00144776-00144959 unsure of their place in the gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00682-00144960-00145071 spectrum
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00683-00145072-00145263 or is experimenting with different forms
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00684-00145264-00145559 of gender presentation school uniforms
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00685-00145560-00145902 can present a real challenge oh my gosh
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00686-00145903-00146143 what is gender spectrum that's a great
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00687-00146144-00146254 question
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00688-00146255-00146454 my son was really confused i feel like
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00689-00146455-00146607 i'm ambushed because now i'm explaining
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00690-00146608-00146775 to my son he asked me what does sexist
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00691-00146776-00146990 mean as a parent i felt trapped i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00692-00146991-00147166 thought i had to explain these concepts
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00693-00147167-00147375 to my son i felt like i was whittling
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00694-00147376-00147599 away his innocence this year my 12 year
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00695-00147600-00147759 old daughter had a science teacher ask
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00696-00147760-00147911 the class about their preferred gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00697-00147912-00148159 pronouns i don't want a teacher talking
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00698-00148160-00148447 to my child about gender pronouns it is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00699-00148448-00148711 not appropriate it's crossing a line
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00700-00148712-00148990 it's unacceptable this is a parent child
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00701-00148991-00149295 issue not a teacher child issue
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00702-00149296-00149487 i wanted my kids to have nothing to do
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00703-00149488-00149726 with it i had to pull both of my kids
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00704-00149727-00149935 out of the school district i've decided
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00705-00149936-00150071 not to pull my children out of the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00706-00150072-00150254 school district but i'm fighting for
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00707-00150255-00150478 change i've been attending school board
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00708-00150479-00150639 meetings for about a year now what's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00709-00150640-00150854 happening across the country is teachers
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00710-00150855-00150999 could get fired if they use the wrong
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00711-00151000-00151207 gender pronoun that just seems wrong
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00712-00151208-00151463 this is my mission in life to protect my
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00713-00151464-00151654 children and however i need to do that i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00714-00151655-00151871 will what matt and i and a group of us
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00715-00151872-00152031 are doing is we're working to have the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00716-00152032-00152278 school board removed completely a lot of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00717-00152279-00152478 people i know a lot of parents i know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00718-00152479-00152687 are afraid to speak up and i speak for
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00719-00152688-00152983 them and i'm not afraid
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00720-00152984-00153095 stacy
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00721-00153096-00153175 matt
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00722-00153176-00153375 why do you all have an issue with the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00723-00153376-00153623 schools telling children
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00724-00153624-00153871 about pronouns and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00725-00153872-00154054 having them deal with them
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00726-00154055-00154254 first of all thank you for having me and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00727-00154255-00154511 i wanted to say it's so i honor you and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00728-00154512-00154678 your journey and where you are in life
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00729-00154679-00154943 and i it has nothing to do with that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00730-00154944-00155207 it's we're here about our kids
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00731-00155208-00155343 and um
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00732-00155344-00155559 so in school
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00733-00155560-00155751 i feel like this is a family issue it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00734-00155752-00156023 a parent child issue and it's a real
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00735-00156024-00156247 issue with some kids i think that the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00736-00156248-00156519 percentage is quite small
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00737-00156520-00156735 for how many kids go through this real
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00738-00156736-00156895 serious issue
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00739-00156896-00157199 um and including and imposing this on
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00740-00157200-00157519 the entire school or the entire class is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00741-00157520-00157663 where i have a problem
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00742-00157664-00157863 there's no reason an eight-year-old
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00743-00157864-00158135 should be taking an assignment that says
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00744-00158136-00158359 what is the gender about gender spectrum
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00745-00158360-00158463 and i had to explain to my
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00746-00158464-00158599 eight-year-old son
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00747-00158600-00158711 that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00748-00158712-00158919 they're about the gender spectrum and no
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00749-00158920-00159054 longer about boys and girls about
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00750-00159055-00159263 femininity feminine clothes that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00751-00159264-00159478 uniforms could be sexist well let's look
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00752-00159479-00159683 at your eight-year-old's homework
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00753-00159684-00159999 assignment it says uniforms may be
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00754-00160000-00160271 sexist some uniforms may strike students
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00755-00160272-00160599 and parents as sexist for example if a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00756-00160600-00160911 uniform requires girls to wear skirts
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00757-00160912-00161183 and pants are not allowed some students
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00758-00161184-00161407 and parents may object leading to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00759-00161408-00161535 conflict with the school's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00760-00161536-00161678 administration
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00761-00161679-00161966 not all girls want to wear skirts and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00762-00161967-00162175 some may resent being told to wear
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00763-00162176-00162390 traditionally feminine garments
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00764-00162391-00162671 also if a student is unsure of their
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00765-00162672-00162902 place on the gender spectrum or is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00766-00162903-00163078 experimenting with different forms of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00767-00163079-00163254 gender presentation
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00768-00163255-00163502 school uniforms can present a real
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00769-00163503-00163671 challenge
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00770-00163672-00163799 now
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00771-00163800-00164038 what was the assignment the assignment
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00772-00164039-00164375 was whether school uniforms pro or con
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00773-00164376-00164543 should schools have uniforms and i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00774-00164544-00164702 believe they had that assignment just so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00775-00164703-00164902 they could squeeze this in this was an
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00776-00164903-00165087 agenda and not appropriate for
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00777-00165088-00165231 eight-year-old children when i dropped
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00778-00165232-00165454 my child off at school i don't expect
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00779-00165455-00165623 him to be
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00780-00165624-00165766 indoctrinated
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00781-00165767-00165951 why are we doing this shouldn't the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00782-00165952-00166159 schools be focused on science and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00783-00166160-00166447 education and and learning and reading
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00784-00166448-00166590 and writing and instead they're being
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00785-00166591-00166895 taught are you a boy are you a girl
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00786-00166896-00167095 and they're confusing the children we're
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00787-00167096-00167287 going to take a break what these parents
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00788-00167288-00167566 feel about gender neutral locker rooms
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00789-00167567-00167837 and bathrooms next
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00790-00167838-00168551 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00791-00168552-00168823 today is international pronouns date
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00792-00168824-00169014 it's a day designed to make personal
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00793-00169015-00169247 pronouns more mainstream now we have a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00794-00169248-00169359 new pronoun
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00795-00169360-00169551 and it's they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00796-00169552-00169775 merriam-webster dictionary revealed it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00797-00169776-00169966 is expanding the definition of the word
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00798-00169967-00170223 they to refer to a quote single person
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00799-00170224-00170502 whose gender identity is non-binary the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00800-00170503-00170743 annual event aims to make respecting and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00801-00170744-00170999 educating people about personal pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00802-00171000-00171254 commonplace international pronouns day
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00803-00171255-00171511 makes everyone more comfortable having
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00804-00171512-00171711 the conversation about what pronouns are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00805-00171712-00171895 and how that is in relation to their
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00806-00171896-00172166 identity
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00807-00172167-00172359 we've been talking about gender pronouns
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00808-00172360-00172551 with all of our guests today stacy and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00809-00172552-00172766 matt are two concerned parents with one
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00810-00172767-00172926 shared mission and that's to recall the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00811-00172927-00173087 local school board
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00812-00173088-00173287 they say their children were too young
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00813-00173288-00173487 to be introduced to gender pronouns in
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00814-00173488-00173719 elementary school and they say if that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00815-00173720-00173959 conversation is going to be had
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00816-00173960-00174135 they'll have it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00817-00174136-00174390 they don't want the teacher doing this
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00818-00174391-00174543 they don't want this taking place in
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00819-00174544-00174663 school
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00820-00174664-00174838 that that's something that they want to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00821-00174839-00174919 do
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00822-00174920-00175159 with their children at the right time
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00823-00175160-00175390 if they have that curiosity
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00824-00175391-00175551 and you have an issue with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00825-00175552-00175702 gender-neutral
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00826-00175703-00175983 restrooms correct this is a war on
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00827-00175984-00176190 gender just like how addison mentioned
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00828-00176191-00176383 before with the pumpkin that in that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00829-00176384-00176671 picture said no gender or gender is over
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00830-00176672-00176887 tender's over well i believe in gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00831-00176888-00177095 and to deny that there's a difference to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00832-00177096-00177351 say gender is over is radical stuff that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00833-00177352-00177575 should not be taught to third graders
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00834-00177576-00177807 third graders that's dangerous and if
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00835-00177808-00178054 you extrapolate and continue on then it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00836-00178055-00178190 leads to no
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00837-00178191-00178399 to gender neutral bathrooms which
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00838-00178400-00178535 they're doing at the school district
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00839-00178536-00178671 next to us they're doing that throughout
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00840-00178672-00178902 the country and gender neutral bathrooms
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00841-00178903-00179111 and locker rooms and that's just not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00842-00179112-00179351 safe that is a dangerous situation to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00843-00179352-00179583 keep them combined in the same space
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00844-00179584-00179687 yeah
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00845-00179688-00179887 how do you feel about the gender neutral
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00846-00179888-00180102 bathrooms and locker rooms i agree with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00847-00180103-00180263 my fellow my fellow matt over here
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00848-00180264-00180414 loudoun county is a famous case of the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00849-00180415-00180607 daily wire we helped uncover uh there
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00850-00180608-00180847 was a gender non-conforming boy in a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00851-00180848-00181063 dress who went into a to a girl's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00852-00181064-00181407 restroom and rape violently raped uh a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00853-00181408-00181678 young girl after that happened that's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00854-00181679-00181847 when this the school district decided oh
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00855-00181848-00181999 you know what now we're gonna open up
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00856-00182000-00182247 the restrooms and uh invite the the boys
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00857-00182248-00182375 in with the girls now here's what
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00858-00182376-00182551 happens because we hear a lot about well
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00859-00182552-00182719 gender non-conforming people transgender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00860-00182720-00182935 people uh it makes them feel bad if they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00861-00182936-00183087 don't if they're not given access to the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00862-00183088-00183223 bathrooms they want
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00863-00183224-00183447 well okay so they have their feelings
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00864-00183448-00183575 what about the feelings of the girls who
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00865-00183576-00183743 are getting raped there are many girls
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00866-00183744-00183935 and many women who are speaking out and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00867-00183936-00184014 saying
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00868-00184015-00184223 we want privacy in our facilities we
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00869-00184224-00184375 don't want a man in the in the bathroom
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00870-00184376-00184526 with us and then what we hear from
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00871-00184527-00184702 people here
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00872-00184703-00184854 what we hear from this side i did not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00873-00184855-00185007 say that we want open bathrooms where
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00874-00185008-00185135 anyone could go in what we hear from
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00875-00185136-00185311 this side is that well their feelings
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00876-00185312-00185431 don't matter we're not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00877-00185432-00185638 who cares you just have to deal with it
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00878-00185639-00185790 right because the transgender people the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00879-00185791-00185943 gender nonconforming people it's it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00880-00185944-00186111 their feelings that take priority i'm
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00881-00186112-00186343 not trying to minimize your concern
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00882-00186344-00186566 around it but i don't know that it's a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00883-00186567-00186750 safety issue
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00884-00186751-00187031 um and you usually still have another
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00885-00187032-00187247 bathroom that you can go to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00886-00187248-00187423 my daughter would not feel safe or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00887-00187424-00187702 secure if she had to share a bathroom or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00888-00187703-00188031 a gender-neutral locker room with boys
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00889-00188032-00188238 normally on birth certificates
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00890-00188239-00188519 you have two choices male and female
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00891-00188520-00188726 well not anymore i'll explain when we
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00892-00188727-00189222 come back
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00893-00189223-00189535 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00894-00189536-00189750 instead of a boy
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00895-00189751-00189902 or a girl
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00896-00189903-00190095 gender-neutral babies are known as
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00897-00190096-00190214 babies
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00898-00190215-00190607 babies are babies without a known sex
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00899-00190608-00190959 they say the gender part comes later and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00900-00190960-00191199 is left up to the child we did not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00901-00191200-00191390 assign a sex at birth which means when
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00902-00191391-00191519 they were born
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00903-00191520-00191735 we they had genitals and we know what
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00904-00191736-00191831 they are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00905-00191832-00192087 we just chose to acknowledge that those
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00906-00192088-00192278 genitals don't indicate anything about
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00907-00192279-00192519 gender sparrow's parents decided to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00908-00192520-00192854 raise their baby gender neutral meaning
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00909-00192855-00193199 sparrow will decide gender when older
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00910-00193200-00193478 even sparrow's birth certificate says
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00911-00193479-00193575 sex
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00912-00193576-00193854 unknown
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00913-00193855-00194143 the term the media is used for this is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00914-00194144-00194478 not a baby but a baby
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00915-00194479-00194559 so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00916-00194560-00194838 uh arlo how old is the baby now
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00917-00194839-00195023 oh sparrow's actually going to be four
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00918-00195024-00195431 in february has sparrow decided
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00919-00195432-00195695 as oh a gender yes that's a great
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00920-00195696-00196014 question uh sparrow is in a point of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00921-00196015-00196183 learning and exploration with a lot of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00922-00196184-00196438 things including gender uh language with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00923-00196439-00196607 children at four is very you know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00924-00196608-00196823 they're figuring it out and so uh
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00925-00196824-00197207 currently sparrow uses he for everyone
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00926-00197208-00197350 no it doesn't matter who what their
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00927-00197351-00197495 pronouns are and you mentioned it they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00928-00197496-00197647 just call everyone he rather not they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00929-00197648-00197823 don't conjugate it correctly they don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00930-00197824-00197990 use him or his or anything just he for
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00931-00197991-00198135 everything so we joke that he is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00932-00198136-00198302 sparrow's preferred pronoun because
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00933-00198303-00198478 that's what they use for everyone as far
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00934-00198479-00198735 as for themselves though um they're not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00935-00198736-00198943 coming consistently saying i would like
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00936-00198944-00199119 you know i want to be a boy or a girl or
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00937-00199120-00199326 i feel like i'm non-binary um we don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00938-00199327-00199438 have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00939-00199439-00199654 heavy in-depth like overt communications
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00940-00199655-00199775 it's not like every morning i wake them
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00941-00199776-00199887 up and say all right what's your gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00942-00199888-00200031 today hoping they'll finally give me an
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00943-00200032-00200247 answer um so it has it doesn't come up
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00944-00200248-00200350 like that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00945-00200351-00200526 okay
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00946-00200527-00200863 you decided this was important to leave
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00947-00200864-00201214 unspecified undetermined why
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00948-00201215-00201463 because of the fact that gender is so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00949-00201464-00201726 social and it is such a social construct
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00950-00201727-00201990 now we say we shouldn't interact with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00951-00201991-00202183 one another differently because of our
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00952-00202184-00202319 genders like everyone deserves the same
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00953-00202320-00202559 respect and treatment but it has been
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00954-00202560-00202750 scientifically proven that children are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00955-00202751-00203007 interacted with very differently based
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00956-00203008-00203159 on whether they are assumed to be a boy
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00957-00203160-00203343 or a girl you know girl children are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00958-00203344-00203535 held more boy children are given you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00959-00203536-00203735 know mechanical toys more often all of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00960-00203736-00204102 these kind of examples anecdotes and i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00961-00204103-00204335 felt it was important for sparrow to get
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00962-00204336-00204559 the chance to figure themselves out
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00963-00204560-00204735 without all of that pressure
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00964-00204736-00205006 intervention and and programming
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00965-00205007-00205206 and if somebody asks you do you have a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00966-00205207-00205414 child you say yes
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00967-00205415-00205631 and if they say what did you have what
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00968-00205632-00205862 do you have what do you say when people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00969-00205863-00206094 ask is a child a boy or a girl
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00970-00206096-00206231 oftentimes what they're trying to do is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00971-00206232-00206358 connect to you and they're trying to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00972-00206359-00206671 connect to the child so what i do is i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00973-00206671-00206862 give them some other bit of information
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00974-00206863-00207062 about my child is your child a boy or a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00975-00207063-00207279 girl they're three and a half
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00976-00207280-00207494 is your child a boy or a girl well
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00977-00207496-00207703 actually they just go they just started
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00978-00207704-00207871 preschool you know i give something
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00979-00207871-00208038 intimate and fun and special so they
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00980-00208039-00208223 know something about this child that is
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00981-00208223-00208510 more relevant than what's in their pants
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00982-00208511-00208823 so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00983-00208823-00209175 so do you think it would be toxic to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00984-00209176-00209438 label the child one way or the other
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00985-00209439-00209646 potentially yes
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00986-00209648-00209846 all right america may be divided on this
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00987-00209848-00210031 great gender debate but it's important
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00988-00210032-00210342 to keep the dialogue open and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00989-00210344-00210742 that's what i started out this whole
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00990-00210744-00211134 episode with is that i wanted us to have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00991-00211135-00211367 a safe place to be able to talk about
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00992-00211367-00211551 this i want to talk about some final
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00993-00211552-00211727 thoughts when we come back
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00994-00211728-00212198 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00995-00212198-00212296 [Applause]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00996-00212296-00212791 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00997-00212792-00212951 well i'm back with this group talking
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00998-00212952-00213303 about uh gender pronouns now
GI4Ux9iZY-k-00999-00213304-00213446 dr dembo
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01000-00213448-00213791 you say it's fine if people want gender
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01001-00213792-00213894 roles
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01002-00213896-00214023 just don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01003-00214023-00214215 project them
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01004-00214216-00214446 onto others i was saying that in the
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01005-00214448-00214694 context of you know a marriage or a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01006-00214696-00214942 commitment like that it's okay to have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01007-00214944-00215094 strict gender roles for a man and a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01008-00215096-00215263 woman if you find each other because
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01009-00215264-00215382 then it's going to work out real great
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01010-00215383-00215615 that relationship will um and then you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01011-00215616-00215742 find some something that's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01012-00215744-00215894 non-conforming and you find each other
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01013-00215896-00216031 and that works out great and it's not a
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01014-00216032-00216167 threat to the other
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01015-00216167-00216446 person at the same time too i think that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01016-00216448-00216551 people should be allowed to have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01017-00216552-00216806 boundaries around who's in their space
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01018-00216807-00216982 too and if you have people who are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01019-00216983-00217223 constantly putting you into a box that
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01020-00217223-00217455 you do not identify with if people are
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01021-00217456-00217710 constantly seeing you in a way that you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01022-00217711-00217991 are not being seen and stuff too it's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01023-00217992-00218239 exhausting it's absolutely exhausting
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01024-00218240-00218455 right you have to imagine that so for us
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01025-00218456-00218591 if we don't hang out with certain people
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01026-00218592-00218919 who don't understand us that's okay
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01027-00218919-00219023 but we will try to keep an open
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01028-00219023-00219255 conversation going yeah i would think
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01029-00219256-00219479 you wouldn't seek those people out i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01030-00219480-00219623 wouldn't think you'd get up every day
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01031-00219623-00219967 and go find matt walsh in school
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01032-00219967-00220110 day with you but i would think he would
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01033-00220111-00220382 be somebody that you would want to have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01034-00220383-00220615 an ongoing dialogue with
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01035-00220616-00220879 uh because you all disagree and it seems
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01036-00220880-00221063 like we should just keep the dialogue
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01037-00221064-00221231 going and and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01038-00221232-00221494 hopefully find some middle ground i have
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01039-00221496-00221646 a question um
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01040-00221648-00221927 arlo you mentioned that that you don't
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01041-00221928-00222094 have your child
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01042-00222096-00222246 discussing pronouns or figuring out
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01043-00222248-00222503 their pronouns yet and yet in school our
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01044-00222504-00222719 kids are being asked what their pronoun
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01045-00222719-00222991 is i'm confused about how that works and
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01046-00222992-00223167 then there's always this fluidity right
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01047-00223167-00223367 around what pronoun you are each day so
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01048-00223367-00223623 it's constantly changing how confusing i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01049-00223623-00223815 think what it is oh sorry i think what
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01050-00223816-00224191 it is is that i sympathize with the hurt
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01051-00224192-00224406 and the stress that i sense from you all
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01052-00224407-00224671 um i also wouldn't want my child to
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01053-00224671-00224831 learn things from their teachers at
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01054-00224832-00224958 school that were topics i was
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01055-00224959-00225110 uncomfortable with or i didn't know how
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01056-00225111-00225319 i'd want to talk about them
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01057-00225319-00225503 your children
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01058-00225504-00225727 are going to need to know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01059-00225728-00225967 how to navigate a world in which
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01060-00225967-00226246 non-binary and transgender people exist
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01061-00226248-00226415 this is a great conversation to have at
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01062-00226416-00226558 home out of the school that should not
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01063-00226559-00226742 be part of the curriculum we're out of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01064-00226744-00226887 time but i i
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01065-00226888-00227094 thank everyone for
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01066-00227096-00227239 your thoughts and ideas and for
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01067-00227240-00227439 remaining civil about the conversation
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01068-00227440-00227710 thank you so much arlo and dr dimbo
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01069-00227711-00227871 thank you for being here and sharing
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01070-00227871-00228151 your thoughts uh if you or someone you
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01071-00228152-00228231 know
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01072-00228232-00228423 uh are looking for supporter information
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01073-00228423-00228615 there are resources available such as
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01074-00228616-00228823 the trevor project
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01075-00228823-00229055 national center for transgender equality
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01076-00229056-00229246 and world professional association for
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01077-00229248-00229479 transgender health while the issue of
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01078-00229480-00229758 pronouns is divisive and can't be solved
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01079-00229759-00230015 or fully covered certainly in one hour
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01080-00230016-00230239 we hope an open dialogue between both
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01081-00230240-00230415 sides can help foster better
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01082-00230416-00230606 understanding and awareness
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01083-00230607-00230903 wherever you come down on this
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01084-00230904-00231046 for more information about today's
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01085-00231048-00231391 episode log on to drphil.com
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01086-00231392-00231615 thank you for being here i'm sure we'll
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01087-00231616-00231775 hear from you on this and i want to hear
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01088-00231776-00231927 your thoughts
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01089-00231928-00232144 we'll see you next time
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01090-00232146-00232204 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01091-00232205-00232971 [Applause]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01092-00232973-00233634 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01093-00233635-00233927 [Music]
GI4Ux9iZY-k-01094-00233928-00234135 you
GI67obTJJR0-00000-00000050-00000322 the khawarij CH arabic al courge al
GI67obTJJR0-00001-00000323-00000678 kawari singular car G car eg kharijites
GI67obTJJR0-00002-00000679-00000990 or the Ashera Arabic al shrek translate
GI67obTJJR0-00003-00000991-00001360 Ashera the exchangers are members of a
GI67obTJJR0-00004-00001361-00001522 school of thought that appeared in the
GI67obTJJR0-00005-00001523-00001729 first century of Islam during the first
GI67obTJJR0-00006-00001730-00001945 fitna the crisis of leadership after the
GI67obTJJR0-00007-00001946-00002200 death of Muhammad it broke into revolt
GI67obTJJR0-00008-00002201-00002385 against the authority of the caliph Ali
GI67obTJJR0-00009-00002386-00002596 after he agreed to arbitration with his
GI67obTJJR0-00010-00002597-00002806 rival while we had the first to decide
GI67obTJJR0-00011-00002807-00002956 the succession to the Caliphate
GI67obTJJR0-00012-00002957-00003279 following the Battle of Siffin 657 a
GI67obTJJR0-00013-00003279-00003568 khariji later assassinated Ali and for
GI67obTJJR0-00014-00003569-00003751 hundreds of years the kawar each were a
GI67obTJJR0-00015-00003752-00003919 source of insurrection against the
GI67obTJJR0-00016-00003920-00004108 caliphate the khawarij chapo' star
GI67obTJJR0-00017-00004109-00004285 betray ssin as a means to choose a new
GI67obTJJR0-00018-00004286-00004492 ruler on the grounds that judgment
GI67obTJJR0-00019-00004493-00004792 belongs to God alone they considered
GI67obTJJR0-00020-00004793-00004993 arbitration a means for people to make
GI67obTJJR0-00021-00004994-00005181 decisions while the victor in a battle
GI67obTJJR0-00022-00005182-00005449 was determined by God they believed that
GI67obTJJR0-00023-00005450-00005734 any Muslim even if not Quraish or even
GI67obTJJR0-00024-00005735-00005961 an Arab could be the imam the leader of
GI67obTJJR0-00025-00005962-00006127 the community if he was morally or
GI67obTJJR0-00026-00006128-00006393 approachable if the leader sinned it was
GI67obTJJR0-00027-00006394-00006616 the duty of Muslims to oppose and depose
GI67obTJJR0-00028-00006617-00006838 him some kawar each developed extreme
GI67obTJJR0-00029-00006839-00007009 doctrines that set them apart from both
GI67obTJJR0-00030-00007009-00007303 mainstream Sunni and Shia Muslims they
GI67obTJJR0-00031-00007304-00007503 were particularly noted for adopting a
GI67obTJJR0-00032-00007504-00007714 radical approach to tack for declaring
GI67obTJJR0-00033-00007715-00008323 self-described Muslims as non-muslims
GI67obTJJR0-00034-00008324-00008770 pick etymology
GI67obTJJR0-00035-00008771-00009016 the term al khariji was used as an
GI67obTJJR0-00036-00009017-00009202 exonym by their opponents from the fact
GI67obTJJR0-00037-00009203-00009472 that they left Ali's army the name comes
GI67obTJJR0-00038-00009473-00009685 from the Arabic root K charge a which
GI67obTJJR0-00039-00009686-00010015 has the primary meaning to leave or to
GI67obTJJR0-00040-00010016-00010312 get out as in the basic word courage to
GI67obTJJR0-00041-00010313-00010689 go out to walk out to come out etc
GI67obTJJR0-00042-00010690-00010971 however these groups called themselves a
GI67obTJJR0-00043-00010972-00011248 Shira the exchangers which they
GI67obTJJR0-00044-00011249-00011467 understood within the context of Islamic
GI67obTJJR0-00045-00011468-00011773 Scripture Quran 2 to 207 and philosophy
GI67obTJJR0-00046-00011774-00011995 to mean those who have traded the mortal
GI67obTJJR0-00047-00011996-00012226 life al dunya for the other life with
GI67obTJJR0-00048-00012227-00012567 God Allah Kira
GI67obTJJR0-00049-00012568-00012746 you
GI67obTJJR0-00050-00012747-00013251 topic history
GI67obTJJR0-00051-00013252-00013718 topic origin
GI67obTJJR0-00052-00013719-00013963 the origin of courage ISM lies in the
GI67obTJJR0-00053-00013965-00014162 first fitna the struggle for political
GI67obTJJR0-00054-00014163-00014360 supremacy over the Muslim community in
GI67obTJJR0-00055-00014361-00014504 the years following the death of
GI67obTJJR0-00056-00014505-00014744 Muhammad after the death of the third
GI67obTJJR0-00057-00014744-00014984 rashidun caliph Uthman a struggle for
GI67obTJJR0-00058-00014985-00015163 succession ensued between Ali and
GI67obTJJR0-00059-00015165-00015401 mu'awiya the first the governor of Syria
GI67obTJJR0-00060-00015402-00015575 and cousin of Earthmen in league with a
GI67obTJJR0-00061-00015576-00015997 variety of other opponents in 657 Ali's
GI67obTJJR0-00062-00015999-00016199 forces met mu'awiya is at the Battle of
GI67obTJJR0-00063-00016200-00016481 Siffin initially the battle went against
GI67obTJJR0-00064-00016482-00016652 mu'awiya but on the brink of defeat
GI67obTJJR0-00065-00016653-00016850 mu'awiya directed his army to hoist
GI67obTJJR0-00066-00016851-00017099 qur'an's on their Lance's mooyah
GI67obTJJR0-00067-00017100-00017312 proposed to ally to settle their dispute
GI67obTJJR0-00068-00017313-00017474 through arbitration with each side
GI67obTJJR0-00069-00017475-00017633 appointing referees who would pronounced
GI67obTJJR0-00070-00017634-00017882 judgment according to the Quran while
GI67obTJJR0-00071-00017883-00018110 most of Ali's army accepted the proposal
GI67obTJJR0-00072-00018111-00018344 one group mostly from the tribe of Tamim
GI67obTJJR0-00073-00018345-00018542 vehemently objected to the arbitration
GI67obTJJR0-00074-00018543-00018755 and left the ranks of Ali's army these
GI67obTJJR0-00075-00018756-00018932 dissenters who initiated what would
GI67obTJJR0-00076-00018933-00019112 become known as the khari Jeep movement
GI67obTJJR0-00077-00019113-00019295 wished to secede from Ali's army in
GI67obTJJR0-00078-00019296-00019541 order to uphold their principles they
GI67obTJJR0-00079-00019542-00019730 held that the third caliph Uthman had
GI67obTJJR0-00080-00019731-00019922 deserved his death because of his faults
GI67obTJJR0-00081-00019923-00020114 and that Ali was the legitimate Calif
GI67obTJJR0-00082-00020115-00020372 while mooyah was a rebel they believed
GI67obTJJR0-00083-00020373-00020561 that the Quran clearly stated that as a
GI67obTJJR0-00084-00020562-00020750 rebel mooyah was not entitled to
GI67obTJJR0-00085-00020751-00020947 arbitration but rather should be fought
GI67obTJJR0-00086-00020948-00021144 until he repented pointing to the verse
GI67obTJJR0-00087-00021145-00021422 if two parties of the faithful fight
GI67obTJJR0-00088-00021423-00021680 each other then conciliate them yet if
GI67obTJJR0-00089-00021681-00021844 one is rebellious to the other then
GI67obTJJR0-00090-00021845-00022034 fight the insolent one until it returns
GI67obTJJR0-00091-00022035-00022430 to God s command Quran 49 - 9 the
GI67obTJJR0-00092-00022431-00022594 dissenters held that in agreeing to
GI67obTJJR0-00093-00022595-00022808 arbitration Ali committed the grave sin
GI67obTJJR0-00094-00022809-00023018 of rejecting God's judgement hue cim and
GI67obTJJR0-00095-00023019-00023225 attempted to substitute human judgment
GI67obTJJR0-00096-00023226-00023390 for God's clear injunction which
GI67obTJJR0-00097-00023391-00023603 prompted their motto logic muhyul lel
GI67obTJJR0-00098-00023604-00023681 lah
GI67obTJJR0-00099-00023682-00023954 judgment belongs to god alone from this
GI67obTJJR0-00100-00023955-00024131 expression which they were the first to
GI67obTJJR0-00101-00024132-00024338 use as a motto they became known as maha
GI67obTJJR0-00102-00024339-00024611 Keima they also believed that muslims
GI67obTJJR0-00103-00024612-00024809 own allegiance only to the Quran and the
GI67obTJJR0-00104-00024810-00025075 Sunna of Mohammed Abu Bakr and Umar and
GI67obTJJR0-00105-00025076-00025217 denied that the right to the Imamate
GI67obTJJR0-00106-00025218-00025406 should be based on close kinship with
GI67obTJJR0-00107-00025407-00025613 Muhammad the initial group of dissenters
GI67obTJJR0-00108-00025614-00025757 went to the village of Hara
GI67obTJJR0-00109-00025758-00025961 near Kufa where they elected an obscure
GI67obTJJR0-00110-00025962-00026255 soldier named Evan w AHB al-razi b as
GI67obTJJR0-00111-00026256-00026492 their leader this gave rise to their
GI67obTJJR0-00112-00026493-00026675 alternative name al hurriya
GI67obTJJR0-00113-00026676-00026918 other defectors from Kufa where Ali's
GI67obTJJR0-00114-00026919-00027115 army had returned awaiting the outcome
GI67obTJJR0-00115-00027116-00027305 of arbitration gradually joined the
GI67obTJJR0-00116-00027306-00027487 dissenters while Ally persuaded some
GI67obTJJR0-00117-00027488-00027755 dissenters to return to Kufa however
GI67obTJJR0-00118-00027756-00027973 when the arbitration ended in a verdict
GI67obTJJR0-00119-00027974-00028096 unfavorable to Ally
GI67obTJJR0-00120-00028097-00028286 a large number of his followers left
GI67obTJJR0-00121-00028287-00028583 Kufa to join even whb who had meanwhile
GI67obTJJR0-00122-00028583-00028786 moved his camp to another location along
GI67obTJJR0-00123-00028787-00029054 the Naro and canal at this point the
GI67obTJJR0-00124-00029055-00029251 kharijites proclaimed Ally's Caliphate
GI67obTJJR0-00125-00029252-00029417 to be null and void and began to
GI67obTJJR0-00126-00029418-00029602 denounce his infidels anyone who did not
GI67obTJJR0-00127-00029603-00029818 accept their point of view from
GI67obTJJR0-00128-00029819-00030020 morrowind they began to agitate against
GI67obTJJR0-00129-00030020-00030274 Ally and raid his territories when
GI67obTJJR0-00130-00030275-00030496 attempts at conciliation failed Ally's
GI67obTJJR0-00131-00030497-00030686 forces attacked the Kharijites in their
GI67obTJJR0-00132-00030687-00030886 camp inflicting a heavy defeat on them
GI67obTJJR0-00133-00030887-00031192 at the Battle of Nara one in 658 killing
GI67obTJJR0-00134-00031193-00031540 even whb and most of his supporters this
GI67obTJJR0-00135-00031541-00031754 bloodshed sealed the split of khariji to
GI67obTJJR0-00136-00031755-00032005 Mally's followers and khariji calls for
GI67obTJJR0-00137-00032006-00032176 revenge ultimately led to Ally's
GI67obTJJR0-00138-00032177-00032755 assassination in 661 by a car Ajit
GI67obTJJR0-00139-00032756-00033373 topic later history for hundreds of
GI67obTJJR0-00140-00033374-00033559 years the kawari CH continued to be a
GI67obTJJR0-00141-00033560-00033727 source of insurrection against the
GI67obTJJR0-00142-00033728-00033895 caliphate and they aroused condemnation
GI67obTJJR0-00143-00033896-00034144 by mainstream scholars such as 14th
GI67obTJJR0-00144-00034145-00034375 century Muslim Ismail eben Cather who
GI67obTJJR0-00145-00034376-00034597 wrote if they ever gained strength they
GI67obTJJR0-00146-00034598-00034780 would surely corrupt the whole of the
GI67obTJJR0-00147-00034781-00034984 earth Iraq and Shaam they would not
GI67obTJJR0-00148-00034985-00035233 leave a baby male or female neither a
GI67obTJJR0-00149-00035234-00035485 man or a woman because as far as they
GI67obTJJR0-00150-00035486-00035650 are concerned the people have caused
GI67obTJJR0-00151-00035651-00035869 corruption a corruption that cannot be
GI67obTJJR0-00152-00035870-00036233 rectified except by mass killing
GI67obTJJR0-00153-00036234-00036431 in a similar vein the 10th century
GI67obTJJR0-00154-00036432-00036737 Islamic scholar abu bakr ala jury said
GI67obTJJR0-00155-00036738-00037004 none of the scholars in either past or
GI67obTJJR0-00156-00037005-00037226 recent times ever disagreed that the
GI67obTJJR0-00157-00037227-00037478 khawarij jar an evil group disobedient
GI67obTJJR0-00158-00037479-00037690 to allah almighty and to his messenger
GI67obTJJR0-00159-00037691-00038027 peace be upon him even if they pray fast
GI67obTJJR0-00160-00038028-00038306 or strive in worship it does not benefit
GI67obTJJR0-00161-00038307-00038510 them and even if they openly and join
GI67obTJJR0-00162-00038511-00038768 good and forbid evil it does not benefit
GI67obTJJR0-00163-00038769-00038971 them as they are a people who interpret
GI67obTJJR0-00164-00038972-00039287 the Quran according to their desire one
GI67obTJJR0-00165-00039288-00039533 modern historian describes kawari J's
GI67obTJJR0-00166-00039534-00039767 Bedouin nomads who resented the
GI67obTJJR0-00167-00039768-00039974 centralization of power in the new
GI67obTJJR0-00168-00039975-00040202 Islamic state that curtailed the freedom
GI67obTJJR0-00169-00040203-00040733 of their tribal society
GI67obTJJR0-00170-00040734-00041232 topic in hadith
GI67obTJJR0-00171-00041233-00041430 among the hadith that refer to the
GI67obTJJR0-00172-00041431-00041592 khawarij according to some sources
GI67obTJJR0-00173-00041593-00041918 include a narration attributed to you
GI67obTJJR0-00174-00041919-00042068 sir Ben Omer reports
GI67obTJJR0-00175-00042069-00042311 I asked Saul been Hanif did you hear the
GI67obTJJR0-00176-00042312-00042515 Prophet saws saying anything about
GI67obTJJR0-00177-00042516-00042899 alkmaar age he said I heard him saws
GI67obTJJR0-00178-00042900-00043118 saying while pointing his hand towards
GI67obTJJR0-00179-00043119-00043493 Iraq quote there will appear in it ie
GI67obTJJR0-00180-00043494-00043692 Iraq some people who will recite the
GI67obTJJR0-00181-00043693-00043862 Quran but it will not go beyond their
GI67obTJJR0-00182-00043863-00044024 throats and they will go out from leap
GI67obTJJR0-00183-00044025-00044202 Islam as an arrow darts through the
GI67obTJJR0-00184-00044203-00044508 game's body a narration attributed to
GI67obTJJR0-00185-00044509-00044714 abu saeed al coutry reports
GI67obTJJR0-00186-00044715-00044855 there will come a people from the east
GI67obTJJR0-00187-00044856-00045048 who recite the quran but it will not go
GI67obTJJR0-00188-00045049-00045270 beyond their throats they will pass
GI67obTJJR0-00189-00045271-00045432 through the religion just as an arrow
GI67obTJJR0-00190-00045433-00045602 pierces its target and they will not
GI67obTJJR0-00191-00045603-00045792 return to it just as the arrow does not
GI67obTJJR0-00192-00045793-00046035 return to the bow
GI67obTJJR0-00193-00046036-00046254 a narration attributed to Abu Dharr
GI67obTJJR0-00194-00046255-00046482 reports all his messenger saws said
GI67obTJJR0-00195-00046483-00046649 verily there would arise from miami
GI67obTJJR0-00196-00046650-00046839 after me a group of people who would
GI67obTJJR0-00197-00046840-00047018 recite the quran but it would not go
GI67obTJJR0-00198-00047019-00047177 beyond their throats and they would pass
GI67obTJJR0-00199-00047178-00047358 clean through their religion just as the
GI67obTJJR0-00200-00047359-00047529 arrow passes through the prey and they
GI67obTJJR0-00201-00047530-00047742 would never come back to it they would
GI67obTJJR0-00202-00047743-00047907 be the worst among the creation and the
GI67obTJJR0-00203-00047908-00048274 creatures
GI67obTJJR0-00204-00048275-00048839 topic beliefs and practices
GI67obTJJR0-00205-00048840-00049397 topic assassination attempts
GI67obTJJR0-00206-00049398-00049649 among the surviving Kharijites three of
GI67obTJJR0-00207-00049650-00049790 them gathered in Mecca to plot a
GI67obTJJR0-00208-00049791-00050000 tripartite assassination attempt on
GI67obTJJR0-00209-00050001-00050255 mu'awiya the first Amory banal as an
GI67obTJJR0-00210-00050256-00050546 ally the assassination attempts were to
GI67obTJJR0-00211-00050547-00050741 occur simultaneously as the three
GI67obTJJR0-00212-00050742-00050903 leaders came to lead the morning prayer
GI67obTJJR0-00213-00050904-00051098 fajr in their respective cities of
GI67obTJJR0-00214-00051099-00051413 damascus Fustat in Kufa the method was
GI67obTJJR0-00215-00051414-00051569 to come out of the prayer ranks and
GI67obTJJR0-00216-00051570-00051740 strike the targets with a sword dipped
GI67obTJJR0-00217-00051741-00051920 in poison mu'awiya escaped the
GI67obTJJR0-00218-00051921-00052105 assassination attempt with only minor
GI67obTJJR0-00219-00052107-00052400 injuries honor was sick and the deputy
GI67obTJJR0-00220-00052401-00052553 leading the prayers in his stead was
GI67obTJJR0-00221-00052554-00052838 martyred however the strike on Ali by
GI67obTJJR0-00222-00052839-00053072 the assassin Abdul Rahman ib'n Mull Jim
GI67obTJJR0-00223-00053073-00053270 Kootenai lanit proved to be fatal
GI67obTJJR0-00224-00053271-00053516 Ali was gravely injured with a head
GI67obTJJR0-00225-00053516-00053692 wound and succumbed to his injuries a
GI67obTJJR0-00226-00053694-00053917 few days later the circumstances in
GI67obTJJR0-00227-00053919-00054110 which Ali was attacked his subject to
GI67obTJJR0-00228-00054111-00054146 debate
GI67obTJJR0-00229-00054147-00054326 some scholars maintained that he was
GI67obTJJR0-00230-00054327-00054527 attacked outside the mosque others state
GI67obTJJR0-00231-00054528-00054691 that he was attacked while initiating
GI67obTJJR0-00232-00054692-00054869 the prayer and still others reiterate
GI67obTJJR0-00233-00054870-00055058 that ibin multum assaulted him midway
GI67obTJJR0-00234-00055059-00055196 through the prayer while Ali was
GI67obTJJR0-00235-00055197-00055366 prostrating all the assassins were
GI67obTJJR0-00236-00055367-00055586 captured tried and sentenced to death in
GI67obTJJR0-00237-00055587-00056026 accordance with Islamic laws
GI67obTJJR0-00238-00056027-00056539 topic modern times
GI67obTJJR0-00239-00056540-00057040 topic like-minded groups
GI67obTJJR0-00240-00057041-00057267 in the modern era some of Muslim
GI67obTJJR0-00241-00057269-00057484 theologians and observers have compared
GI67obTJJR0-00242-00057485-00057679 the beliefs and actions of the Islamic
GI67obTJJR0-00243-00057679-00057930 state is al-qaeda and like-minded groups
GI67obTJJR0-00244-00057931-00058200 to the kawar each in particular the
GI67obTJJR0-00245-00058201-00058372 group's share the carriage its radical
GI67obTJJR0-00246-00058373-00058615 approach whereby self-described Muslims
GI67obTJJR0-00247-00058616-00058804 are declared unbelievers and therefore
GI67obTJJR0-00248-00058804-00058941 deemed them worthy of death and their
GI67obTJJR0-00249-00058942-00059118 disinterest in Quranic calls for
GI67obTJJR0-00250-00059119-00059436 moderation however is preachers strongly
GI67obTJJR0-00251-00059437-00059607 reject being compared to the khawarij
GI67obTJJR0-00252-00059608-00059844 the embodies a fellow early sect with
GI67obTJJR0-00253-00059845-00060057 similar beliefs form the majority of the
GI67obTJJR0-00254-00060058-00060247 population of Oman where they first
GI67obTJJR0-00255-00060248-00060513 settled in 686 and there are smaller
GI67obTJJR0-00256-00060514-00060709 concentrations of them in the mazhab of
GI67obTJJR0-00257-00060710-00060961 Algeria Djerba in Tunisia the new fusa
GI67obTJJR0-00258-00060962-00061275 Mountains in Libya and Zanzibar in the
GI67obTJJR0-00259-00061276-00061506 18th century the NAAFI scholar eben
GI67obTJJR0-00260-00061507-00061711 Abidin declared the Wahhabi movement of
GI67obTJJR0-00261-00061712-00061950 muhammad i banaba al-wahhab as modern
GI67obTJJR0-00262-00061951-00062142 kawar age although he does not consider
GI67obTJJR0-00263-00062143-00062329 them non-muslims according to some
GI67obTJJR0-00264-00062329-00062532 muslims such as abu amina elias
GI67obTJJR0-00265-00062533-00062805 Kharijites will continue to cause strife
GI67obTJJR0-00266-00062806-00063085 in the muslim community until end times
GI67obTJJR0-00267-00063086-00063444 and Saida hadith numbers 7123
GI67obTJJR0-00268-00063445-00064007 from sahih al-bukhari in support of this
GI67obTJJR0-00269-00064008-00064504 topic early Muslim governance
GI67obTJJR0-00270-00064505-00064693 the cow are each considered the
GI67obTJJR0-00271-00064694-00064918 Caliphate of Abu Bakr and Umar to be
GI67obTJJR0-00272-00064919-00065083 rightly guided but believed that
GI67obTJJR0-00273-00065084-00065269 Earthman had deviated from the path of
GI67obTJJR0-00274-00065270-00065452 justice and truth in the last days of
GI67obTJJR0-00275-00065453-00065656 his caliphate and hence was liable to be
GI67obTJJR0-00276-00065657-00065926 killed or displaced they also believed
GI67obTJJR0-00277-00065927-00066121 that Ali committed a grave sin when he
GI67obTJJR0-00278-00066122-00066330 agreed on the arbitration with mu'awiya
GI67obTJJR0-00279-00066331-00066562 the Kharijites thus deemed the
GI67obTJJR0-00280-00066563-00066814 arbitrator's Abu Musa a Shari and Amory
GI67obTJJR0-00281-00066815-00067045 banal as the leaders who appointed these
GI67obTJJR0-00282-00067046-00067264 arbitrators Ali and mu'awiya the first
GI67obTJJR0-00283-00067265-00067408 and all those who agreed on the
GI67obTJJR0-00284-00067409-00067615 arbitration all companions of Ali and
GI67obTJJR0-00285-00067616-00067882 mu'awiya as coof are disbelievers as
GI67obTJJR0-00286-00067883-00068101 they had breached the rules of the Quran
GI67obTJJR0-00287-00068102-00068320 they also believed that all participants
GI67obTJJR0-00288-00068321-00068533 in the Battle of the camel including
GI67obTJJR0-00289-00068534-00068575 Tala
GI67obTJJR0-00290-00068576-00068803 Zubair ebin al alamin Aisha had
GI67obTJJR0-00291-00068804-00069261 committed a major sin
GI67obTJJR0-00292-00069262-00069519 topic doctrinal differences with other
GI67obTJJR0-00293-00069520-00069921 sects
GI67obTJJR0-00294-00069922-00070182 Kharijites differ with both Sunni and/or
GI67obTJJR0-00295-00070183-00070492 Shia on some points of doctrine Sunnis
GI67obTJJR0-00296-00070493-00070684 accept Ali as the fourth rightly guided
GI67obTJJR0-00297-00070685-00070879 caliphs and also accept the three
GI67obTJJR0-00298-00070880-00071053 caliphs before him who were elected by
GI67obTJJR0-00299-00071054-00071305 their community Shia believed that the
GI67obTJJR0-00300-00071306-00071485 Imamate was the right of Ali and the
GI67obTJJR0-00301-00071486-00071682 rule of the first three rashidun caliph
GI67obTJJR0-00302-00071683-00071959 s' was unlawful khariji to insist that
GI67obTJJR0-00303-00071960-00072142 the Caliph need not be from the Quraysh
GI67obTJJR0-00304-00072143-00072385 tribe but any pious Muslim nominated by
GI67obTJJR0-00305-00072386-00072568 other Muslims was eligible to be the
GI67obTJJR0-00306-00072569-00072919 Caliph unlike Sunni and Shia Kharijites
GI67obTJJR0-00307-00072920-00073101 believed that Muslims had the right and
GI67obTJJR0-00308-00073102-00073297 duty to revolt against any ruler who
GI67obTJJR0-00309-00073298-00073468 deviated from their interpretation of
GI67obTJJR0-00310-00073469-00073619 Islam or according to other
GI67obTJJR0-00311-00073620-00073849 interpretations failed to manage Muslims
GI67obTJJR0-00312-00073850-00074080 affairs with justice and consultation or
GI67obTJJR0-00313-00074081-00074392 committed a major sin kharijites reject
GI67obTJJR0-00314-00074393-00074575 the doctrine of infallibility for the
GI67obTJJR0-00315-00074576-00074734 leader of the Muslim community in
GI67obTJJR0-00316-00074735-00074925 contrast to Shia but in agreement with
GI67obTJJR0-00317-00074926-00075196 Sunnis unlike the more extreme
GI67obTJJR0-00318-00075197-00075412 Kharijites the Abati's reject the murder
GI67obTJJR0-00319-00075413-00075588 of Earthmen as well as the khariji
GI67obTJJR0-00320-00075589-00075756 belief that all muslims holding
GI67obTJJR0-00321-00075757-00076190 differing viewpoints were infidels
GI67obTJJR0-00322-00076191-00076700 topic other doctrines
GI67obTJJR0-00323-00076701-00076952 many college groups believed that the
GI67obTJJR0-00324-00076953-00077177 act of sinning is analogous to kufr
GI67obTJJR0-00325-00077178-00077474 disbelief and that every grave sinner
GI67obTJJR0-00326-00077475-00077660 was regarded as a kafir unless they
GI67obTJJR0-00327-00077661-00077927 repent they invoked the doctrine of free
GI67obTJJR0-00328-00077928-00078080 will in opposition to that of
GI67obTJJR0-00329-00078081-00078260 predestination in their opposition to
GI67obTJJR0-00330-00078261-00078452 the Umayyad Caliphate which held the
GI67obTJJR0-00331-00078453-00078629 doom Ayad rule was ordained by God
GI67obTJJR0-00332-00078630-00078887 according to Islamic scholar an islamist
GI67obTJJR0-00333-00078888-00079121 pioneer Abul ala Maududi using the
GI67obTJJR0-00334-00079122-00079378 argument of sinners or unbelievers
GI67obTJJR0-00335-00079379-00079577 Kharijites denounced all the above
GI67obTJJR0-00336-00079578-00079796 Sahaba and even cursed and used abusive
GI67obTJJR0-00337-00079797-00080084 language against them other non kawari
GI67obTJJR0-00338-00080085-00080285 CH Muslims were declared disbelievers
GI67obTJJR0-00339-00080286-00080459 because they were not free of sin but
GI67obTJJR0-00340-00080460-00080594 also because they regarded the
GI67obTJJR0-00341-00080595-00080819 above-mentioned Sahaba as believers and
GI67obTJJR0-00342-00080820-00081023 religious leaders even inferring fake
GI67obTJJR0-00343-00081024-00081203 from the hadith narrated by them the
GI67obTJJR0-00344-00081204-00081383 khawarij CH considered the Quran as the
GI67obTJJR0-00345-00081384-00081587 source for fik but disagreed about the
GI67obTJJR0-00346-00081588-00081851 other two sources hadith and ijma based
GI67obTJJR0-00347-00081852-00082115 on khariji poetry writings scholar asan
GI67obTJJR0-00348-00082116-00082346 abbas finds three categories of focus
GI67obTJJR0-00349-00082347-00082592 among them the strong desire of
GI67obTJJR0-00350-00082593-00082784 Kharijites for martyrdom and dying for
GI67obTJJR0-00351-00082785-00083081 the sake of God detailed descriptions of
GI67obTJJR0-00352-00083082-00083291 how Kharijites defined a just and pious
GI67obTJJR0-00353-00083292-00083609 ruler their universal tendency to blame
GI67obTJJR0-00354-00083610-00083792 the self for failing to establish the
GI67obTJJR0-00355-00083793-00084008 previous two categories on the basis of
GI67obTJJR0-00356-00084009-00084179 women fighting alongside Muhammad
GI67obTJJR0-00357-00084180-00084338 courage ease have viewed fighting jihad
GI67obTJJR0-00358-00084339-00084614 as a requirement for women one famous
GI67obTJJR0-00359-00084615-00084833 example is the warrior and poet Leila
GI67obTJJR0-00360-00084834-00085265 bint tarrif
GI67obTJJR0-00361-00085266-00085755 topic principle groups
GI67obTJJR0-00362-00085756-00086058 as Rica the followers of Abu Rashid na
GI67obTJJR0-00363-00086059-00086334 VI banal as RAC not it
GI67obTJJR0-00364-00086335-00086643 the followers of nada eben Amir ajar
GI67obTJJR0-00365-00086644-00086856 Deitz the followers of ABBA al karima
GI67obTJJR0-00366-00086857-00087174 been a dread a body's the followers of
GI67obTJJR0-00367-00087175-00087399 abba dalla eben i bad are not the same
GI67obTJJR0-00368-00087400-00087612 ideology as the kawar age but share
GI67obTJJR0-00369-00087613-00087942 similar beliefs sue frees the followers
GI67obTJJR0-00370-00087943-00088194 of Ziad I banal as far in humor Nibin
GI67obTJJR0-00371-00088195-00088550 hadn't
GI67obTJJR0-00372-00088551-00089102 topic see also
GI67obTJJR0-00373-00089103-00089746 khariji tree Bell Yin 866 - 896 mer Jia
GI67obTJJR0-00374-00089747-00090299 Salafism Wahhabism
GI67obTJJR0-00375-00090300-00090838 topic notes
GI67obTJJR0-00376-00090839-00091355 topic references
GI67obTJJR0-00377-00091356-00091875 topic further reading
GI67obTJJR0-00378-00091876-00092304 alia kobe muhammad 2015 refuting isis a
GI67obTJJR0-00379-00092305-00092466 rebuttal of its religious and
GI67obTJJR0-00380-00092467-00092728 ideological foundations sacred knowledge
GI67obTJJR0-00381-00092729-00093444 is b + 9 7 8 1 9 0 8 2 2 4 1 2 5 JJ
GI67obTJJR0-00382-00093445-00093729 Saunders a history of medieval Islam
GI67obTJJR0-00383-00093730-00094072 route llege UK the 1st of October 1972
GI67obTJJR0-00384-00094073-00094392 ISBN oh four one five oh five nine one
GI67obTJJR0-00385-00094393-00094787 four three
GI67obTJJR0-00386-00094788-00095381 topic external links
GI67obTJJR0-00387-00095382-00095750 a body Islam site hermeneutics of tack
GI67obTJJR0-00388-00095751-00095978 fur
GIw87iZFG4A-00000-00000000-00001016 foreign
GIw87iZFG4A-00002-00004035-00004888 [Laughter]
GIw87iZFG4A-00003-00004889-00005189 foreign
GKiwRC8EA5u-00000-00000042-00000275 so now we're gonna have fun we did this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00001-00000276-00000430 at the previous conference we had a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00002-00000431-00000593 blast and the important thing
GKiwRC8EA5u-00003-00000594-00000797 is we're going to start with some of our
GKiwRC8EA5u-00004-00000798-00000994 own hot takes that we want to kick
GKiwRC8EA5u-00005-00000996-00001229 around and then you can submit hot takes
GKiwRC8EA5u-00006-00001230-00001577 so in the app and the CC event app the Q
GKiwRC8EA5u-00007-00001578-00001871 a is open just there's a hot take you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00008-00001872-00002165 want us to kick around submit it in and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00009-00002166-00002297 I'll I'll bring it up here after we get
GKiwRC8EA5u-00010-00002298-00002513 through ours okay it's only fun
GKiwRC8EA5u-00011-00002514-00002860 you ready to play
GKiwRC8EA5u-00012-00002861-00003160 um so here's the first one
GKiwRC8EA5u-00013-00003161-00003419 CS just became the new sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00014-00003420-00003665 organization and and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00015-00003665-00003893 um I think I'll start with uh with
GKiwRC8EA5u-00016-00003894-00004109 before I go to you Steve Frost Stephen
GKiwRC8EA5u-00017-00004110-00004409 what are your thoughts on this ish ish
GKiwRC8EA5u-00018-00004410-00004643 ish yeah so when we take a look at the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00019-00004644-00004931 behaviorisms of organizations uh 62
GKiwRC8EA5u-00020-00004932-00005086 percent of organizations that have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00021-00005087-00005279 customer success have the expansion
GKiwRC8EA5u-00022-00005280-00005417 chart or responsibility we've been
GKiwRC8EA5u-00023-00005418-00005693 tracking that since 2015 when it was 10
GKiwRC8EA5u-00024-00005694-00006004 today it's 62 percent 80 percent are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00025-00006005-00006202 doing the Motions of retention
GKiwRC8EA5u-00026-00006203-00006413 retention expansion or sales motions
GKiwRC8EA5u-00027-00006414-00006731 right commercial commercial Charters so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00028-00006731-00006934 customer success is definitely plain but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00029-00006936-00007084 I don't know that they're the only sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00030-00007086-00007337 but they are a new arm to the sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00031-00007338-00007498 force that works in tandem with the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00032-00007500-00007733 Salesforce so ish now these are fighting
GKiwRC8EA5u-00033-00007734-00007883 words to somebody who's carried a bag
GKiwRC8EA5u-00034-00007884-00008237 yeah so what's your feeling on CS kind
GKiwRC8EA5u-00035-00008238-00008399 of encroaching in on your world here man
GKiwRC8EA5u-00036-00008400-00008531 okay first of all by the way for those
GKiwRC8EA5u-00037-00008532-00008645 of you who don't know when they say I've
GKiwRC8EA5u-00038-00008646-00008795 carried a bag that means that someone
GKiwRC8EA5u-00039-00008796-00008992 who is actually sold it doesn't mean you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00040-00008993-00009137 actually have a briefcase we'll talk
GKiwRC8EA5u-00041-00009138-00009359 about that tonight oh oh okay okay I'm
GKiwRC8EA5u-00042-00009360-00009617 dating myself I know that yeah um but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00043-00009618-00009773 look
GKiwRC8EA5u-00044-00009774-00010091 um the important thing that we see is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00045-00010092-00010421 that CS needs to be an offensive
GKiwRC8EA5u-00046-00010422-00010517 position
GKiwRC8EA5u-00047-00010518-00010703 okay now that doesn't mean that they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00048-00010704-00010960 taking down transactions but if you find
GKiwRC8EA5u-00049-00010961-00011188 that your csms are just reactive and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00050-00011189-00011363 taking calls and basically a support
GKiwRC8EA5u-00051-00011364-00011663 organization and not moving the ball
GKiwRC8EA5u-00052-00011664-00011867 forward with the revenue process that's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00053-00011868-00012028 really what we need them to do adoption
GKiwRC8EA5u-00054-00012029-00012341 is proactive and can you measure if your
GKiwRC8EA5u-00055-00012342-00012538 adoption plays actually lead to Greater
GKiwRC8EA5u-00056-00012539-00012796 expansion lead to Greater renewal
GKiwRC8EA5u-00057-00012797-00012977 um the biggest thing is Thomas said in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00058-00012978-00013186 your session today is we've got to keep
GKiwRC8EA5u-00059-00013187-00013594 sales doing what sales does finding big
GKiwRC8EA5u-00060-00013595-00013816 new opportunities with new customers and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00061-00013818-00014008 with our existing customers if we can
GKiwRC8EA5u-00062-00014009-00014147 take a lot of the other stuff off their
GKiwRC8EA5u-00063-00014147-00014380 plate that's wonderful but um but sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00064-00014381-00014608 is still going to sell the Cs has got to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00065-00014609-00014716 be there to help
GKiwRC8EA5u-00066-00014718-00014993 right and it's got one of the challenges
GKiwRC8EA5u-00067-00014994-00015149 we see and we talked about this in my
GKiwRC8EA5u-00068-00015150-00015461 session before this is this art project
GKiwRC8EA5u-00069-00015462-00015694 versus a science project right and the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00070-00015695-00015863 data really shows that customer success
GKiwRC8EA5u-00071-00015863-00016133 can add a lot of value to sales and can
GKiwRC8EA5u-00072-00016134-00016343 bring in a lot of additional revenue and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00073-00016344-00016486 it is a revenue generated machine
GKiwRC8EA5u-00074-00016487-00016805 however comma pause for effect if we're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00075-00016806-00017003 spending so much time doing as Steve
GKiwRC8EA5u-00076-00017004-00017272 said tactical reactionary work then it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00077-00017273-00017477 just an art project yeah I think what's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00078-00017478-00017753 interesting about this one is that the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00079-00017754-00017957 NAT the natural posture here for
GKiwRC8EA5u-00080-00017958-00018155 companies is that CS is basically saying
GKiwRC8EA5u-00081-00018156-00018329 I don't want to be sales I you know I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00082-00018330-00018449 don't like this I want to be the trusted
GKiwRC8EA5u-00083-00018450-00018671 advisor don't mess that up and sales is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00084-00018672-00018911 saying Hell No CS is not the next sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00085-00018912-00019205 you know engine for us but the reality
GKiwRC8EA5u-00086-00019206-00019391 is what you just said this is data
GKiwRC8EA5u-00087-00019392-00019589 driven science and we've got it's a team
GKiwRC8EA5u-00088-00019590-00019841 sport to grow Revenue so I think we have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00089-00019842-00020117 to get mentally culturally through the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00090-00020118-00020339 knot hole on this and embrace the fact
GKiwRC8EA5u-00091-00020340-00020555 that CS can own commercials and the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00092-00020556-00020717 world was not going to fall apart
GKiwRC8EA5u-00093-00020718-00020879 this one is an interesting one because
GKiwRC8EA5u-00094-00020880-00021011 you and I were just just had a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00095-00021012-00021250 conversation about this earlier layoffs
GKiwRC8EA5u-00096-00021251-00021599 are becoming a feature not a bug
GKiwRC8EA5u-00097-00021600-00021875 yeah uh layoffs are tough right um so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00098-00021876-00022030 first things we talk about this I mean
GKiwRC8EA5u-00099-00022031-00022241 let's let's let's be real like we're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00100-00022242-00022367 talking about this being a feature not a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00101-00022368-00022613 bug but we say that with all empathy
GKiwRC8EA5u-00102-00022614-00022793 um I've been laid off I've laid people
GKiwRC8EA5u-00103-00022794-00022961 off it's horrible and it's really
GKiwRC8EA5u-00104-00022962-00023099 there's a really human element to this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00105-00023100-00023339 but we were also talking about it from a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00106-00023340-00023543 practical standpoint in our uh cro
GKiwRC8EA5u-00107-00023544-00023753 Council Advisory Board yesterday and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00108-00023754-00024005 most of the people we talked to said yes
GKiwRC8EA5u-00109-00024006-00024167 we're laying people off but we're also
GKiwRC8EA5u-00110-00024168-00024449 hiring at the same time through this and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00111-00024450-00024707 so not just maybe people think it's a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00112-00024708-00024857 performance issue where we've got a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00113-00024858-00025019 chance to okay rid ourselves as a low
GKiwRC8EA5u-00114-00025020-00025199 performers but it's actually a way to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00115-00025200-00025427 shift organizational priorities as well
GKiwRC8EA5u-00116-00025428-00025625 so people who are really involved with
GKiwRC8EA5u-00117-00025626-00025799 maybe a traditional transactional model
GKiwRC8EA5u-00118-00025800-00026075 uh and an old way of doing things yes
GKiwRC8EA5u-00119-00026076-00026231 that's a layoff but we're also hiring
GKiwRC8EA5u-00120-00026232-00026470 for new positions the Cs the people who
GKiwRC8EA5u-00121-00026472-00026590 are really helping us make that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00122-00026591-00026908 transformation so you know layoffs in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00123-00026910-00027064 many cases it seems are yes they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00124-00027066-00027196 happening and yes they're huge in number
GKiwRC8EA5u-00125-00027197-00027346 and certainly not all of them are are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00126-00027347-00027545 purposeful but I think there's a number
GKiwRC8EA5u-00127-00027545-00027755 of them that appear to be really you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00128-00027756-00027995 know leveraging that tactic if you will
GKiwRC8EA5u-00129-00027995-00028252 to drive transformation yeah no I think
GKiwRC8EA5u-00130-00028254-00028474 I think this is becoming you know a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00131-00028475-00028667 strategic feature that companies are are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00132-00028668-00028912 using to you know reposition their
GKiwRC8EA5u-00133-00028913-00029099 talent where they're investing whether
GKiwRC8EA5u-00134-00029100-00029314 or not investing I think Stephen I'd be
GKiwRC8EA5u-00135-00029316-00029573 curious you know from a CS organization
GKiwRC8EA5u-00136-00029574-00029711 perspective
GKiwRC8EA5u-00137-00029712-00030017 you know it's I think historically more
GKiwRC8EA5u-00138-00030018-00030257 pressure on CS than ever to sort of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00139-00030258-00030533 justify the head count because of this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00140-00030533-00030677 motion so do you see a lot of Cs
GKiwRC8EA5u-00141-00030677-00030887 organizations sort of reeling from that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00142-00030888-00031055 reality and go whoa whoa whoa I've got
GKiwRC8EA5u-00143-00031056-00031408 to really be able to somehow justify the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00144-00031410-00031511 head count
GKiwRC8EA5u-00145-00031512-00031708 we absolutely see that and that's why
GKiwRC8EA5u-00146-00031710-00031870 we're doing the scaling customer success
GKiwRC8EA5u-00147-00031872-00032008 research Journey because we're trying to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00148-00032010-00032177 really understand how executives are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00149-00032177-00032381 thinking about scaling customer success
GKiwRC8EA5u-00150-00032382-00032596 but it's interesting we had our customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00151-00032597-00032746 success advisor board meeting yesterday
GKiwRC8EA5u-00152-00032747-00033005 and we have some of those companies that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00153-00033006-00033167 they can't hire fast enough and they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00154-00033168-00033401 saying hey look we're hiring customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00155-00033402-00033581 success managers and we need more of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00156-00033582-00033731 them and some are going we got to freeze
GKiwRC8EA5u-00157-00033732-00033887 we got we've hired too many we've got to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00158-00033888-00034079 back off so we see kind of mixed results
GKiwRC8EA5u-00159-00034080-00034283 and it really depends again going back
GKiwRC8EA5u-00160-00034284-00034468 to the charters what is customer success
GKiwRC8EA5u-00161-00034469-00034696 doing if you're going to lay off
GKiwRC8EA5u-00162-00034697-00034877 customer success and they have the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00163-00034878-00035117 charter of renewal and expansion well
GKiwRC8EA5u-00164-00035118-00035273 that's Revenue that's going out the door
GKiwRC8EA5u-00165-00035274-00035393 so that has to be taken into
GKiwRC8EA5u-00166-00035394-00035585 consideration with these layouts yeah no
GKiwRC8EA5u-00167-00035586-00035824 kidding no kidding the um let's get to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00168-00035825-00035939 the next one here
GKiwRC8EA5u-00169-00035940-00036299 service Revenue not adoption is becoming
GKiwRC8EA5u-00170-00036300-00036562 the new corporate currency and for quite
GKiwRC8EA5u-00171-00036563-00036773 a while for the Cs organizations even
GKiwRC8EA5u-00172-00036774-00037012 Professional Service Education Services
GKiwRC8EA5u-00173-00037013-00037246 everybody was jumping on this adoption
GKiwRC8EA5u-00174-00037247-00037433 train you know I'm here to drive
GKiwRC8EA5u-00175-00037434-00037673 adoption I'm here to drive adoption and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00176-00037674-00037805 based on the current economic
GKiwRC8EA5u-00177-00037806-00037931 environment and the pivot we talked
GKiwRC8EA5u-00178-00037932-00038111 about this morning there's just been
GKiwRC8EA5u-00179-00038112-00038333 this massive pivot to know no no I I've
GKiwRC8EA5u-00180-00038334-00038537 got to monetize that I've got a there's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00181-00038538-00038668 got to be Revenue here and I'm going to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00182-00038669-00038880 start with you Hal who is our expert on
GKiwRC8EA5u-00183-00038881-00039167 offers you know what kind of heat are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00184-00039168-00039323 you seeing now where people are are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00185-00039324-00039485 saying hey this is something I never
GKiwRC8EA5u-00186-00039486-00039755 tried to structure and monetize and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00187-00039756-00039995 articulate the value proposition what
GKiwRC8EA5u-00188-00039996-00040139 kind of conversations are you getting
GKiwRC8EA5u-00189-00040140-00040246 into now
GKiwRC8EA5u-00190-00040247-00040535 honestly Thomas it's gotten very
GKiwRC8EA5u-00191-00040536-00040793 pragmatic especially since the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00192-00040794-00041039 investment dried up yeah because we can
GKiwRC8EA5u-00193-00041040-00041230 walk in and very confidently say you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00194-00041231-00041411 have customers using standard services
GKiwRC8EA5u-00195-00041412-00041537 today
GKiwRC8EA5u-00196-00041538-00041711 you have happy customers using those
GKiwRC8EA5u-00197-00041712-00041921 Services you can put premium services
GKiwRC8EA5u-00198-00041922-00042112 and Market our Benchmark says six to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00199-00042113-00042340 nine months is doable Net News service
GKiwRC8EA5u-00200-00042341-00042557 offers and there's probably not a better
GKiwRC8EA5u-00201-00042558-00042761 way to grab that low hanging Revenue
GKiwRC8EA5u-00202-00042762-00043067 fruit that that we're all looking for if
GKiwRC8EA5u-00203-00043068-00043361 you're down somewhere in a services
GKiwRC8EA5u-00204-00043362-00043751 service line and you want to be a hero
GKiwRC8EA5u-00205-00043752-00044008 get involved in a premium service launch
GKiwRC8EA5u-00206-00044009-00044249 you can do it this year and you will
GKiwRC8EA5u-00207-00044250-00044483 prove that this is something you can do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00208-00044484-00044717 as you do it talk to us and when you do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00209-00044718-00044861 it let us bring you back to brag about
GKiwRC8EA5u-00210-00044862-00045058 it and then others can do it we need to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00211-00045059-00045280 start this snowball rolling but it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00212-00045281-00045527 starts with one premium service offered
GKiwRC8EA5u-00213-00045528-00045743 you don't have to boil the ocean and we
GKiwRC8EA5u-00214-00045744-00045887 just completed our Trends with service
GKiwRC8EA5u-00215-00045888-00046168 portfolio study and we found that if you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00216-00046169-00046355 have more premium customers you have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00217-00046356-00046517 more support Revenue more Professional
GKiwRC8EA5u-00218-00046518-00046661 Services revenue and more technology
GKiwRC8EA5u-00219-00046662-00046865 Revenue if any of those are interesting
GKiwRC8EA5u-00220-00046866-00047087 to you service Revenue just got really
GKiwRC8EA5u-00221-00047088-00047315 important to you and what about you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00222-00047316-00047555 and I'm hearing this at this conference
GKiwRC8EA5u-00223-00047556-00047765 this past two days people are realizing
GKiwRC8EA5u-00224-00047766-00048029 you know we're over serving the customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00225-00048030-00048215 we're doing things that we were throwing
GKiwRC8EA5u-00226-00048216-00048437 in it was okay but now we're realizing
GKiwRC8EA5u-00227-00048438-00048671 we need to walk some of this back and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00228-00048672-00048937 say actually there's a line here so so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00229-00048938-00049235 what's the Insight if if that's the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00230-00049236-00049361 conversation they're in how do they
GKiwRC8EA5u-00231-00049362-00049577 redefine some of those lines
GKiwRC8EA5u-00232-00049578-00049721 yeah I think it's the monetization
GKiwRC8EA5u-00233-00049722-00049840 threshold that you were talking about
GKiwRC8EA5u-00234-00049841-00050236 earlier we are giving away things that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00235-00050237-00050440 the customers clearly see are in their
GKiwRC8EA5u-00236-00050441-00050627 interest and that's the problem
GKiwRC8EA5u-00237-00050628-00050801 a lot of times I'm asked should we be
GKiwRC8EA5u-00238-00050802-00051035 charging for these CS motions
GKiwRC8EA5u-00239-00051036-00051263 and my answer is no those sound like to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00240-00051264-00051442 me they're driving your expansion your
GKiwRC8EA5u-00241-00051444-00051664 Revenue growth Etc but when I started
GKiwRC8EA5u-00242-00051665-00051857 hearing success managers saying you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00243-00051858-00052042 what there's an assessment we have that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00244-00052044-00052229 lands right on that there's a move we
GKiwRC8EA5u-00245-00052229-00052385 have that's exactly what you need that's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00246-00052386-00052576 value add to me that's management
GKiwRC8EA5u-00247-00052577-00052876 consulting from customer success so I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00248-00052877-00053038 think it's understanding where the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00249-00053039-00053242 customer themselves benefits and if you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00250-00053244-00053482 can measure that that's the adoption the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00251-00053483-00053680 Jewish people draw that line I'm gonna
GKiwRC8EA5u-00252-00053682-00053800 ask you a question here Steve because I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00253-00053801-00054059 literally was just in a meeting and one
GKiwRC8EA5u-00254-00054060-00054287 of the members commented that since it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00255-00054288-00054430 getting a little bit tough tougher out
GKiwRC8EA5u-00256-00054432-00054575 there on their product
GKiwRC8EA5u-00257-00054576-00054809 that the sales folks are much more
GKiwRC8EA5u-00258-00054810-00055066 inclined to throw in you know premium
GKiwRC8EA5u-00259-00055067-00055175 support or some of the other stuff and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00260-00055176-00055276 just say hey we can give the services
GKiwRC8EA5u-00261-00055277-00055588 away for free right I'm sorry did you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00262-00055589-00055744 say that sales people will sometimes
GKiwRC8EA5u-00263-00055745-00056069 give Services away I know this is crazy
GKiwRC8EA5u-00264-00056070-00056249 to talk up on the stage here sometimes
GKiwRC8EA5u-00265-00056250-00056476 sometimes I'm disconnected from reality
GKiwRC8EA5u-00266-00056477-00056650 can you help me out but then do they
GKiwRC8EA5u-00267-00056651-00056849 also heavily discount Services well I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00268-00056850-00057023 don't know that's a rumor yeah that's a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00269-00057024-00057203 rumor so also you've heard maybe they
GKiwRC8EA5u-00270-00057204-00057371 don't always value Services yes well
GKiwRC8EA5u-00271-00057372-00057587 that's another rumor unsubstantiated but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00272-00057588-00057682 yes
GKiwRC8EA5u-00273-00057683-00057875 um you guys learned something you had no
GKiwRC8EA5u-00274-00057876-00057979 idea
GKiwRC8EA5u-00275-00057979-00058349 thank God you came here yeah no uh look
GKiwRC8EA5u-00276-00058350-00058421 um
GKiwRC8EA5u-00277-00058422-00058738 when times get tough
GKiwRC8EA5u-00278-00058739-00058942 sales people yes we're going to do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00279-00058944-00059159 anything we can and I say this first of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00280-00059160-00059380 all don't think sales is not evil okay
GKiwRC8EA5u-00281-00059382-00059519 and we talked about CFL I don't want to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00282-00059520-00059675 be in sales you know what whether you do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00283-00059676-00059861 or not you know there's nobody who cares
GKiwRC8EA5u-00284-00059862-00059987 more about the customer than sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00285-00059988-00060203 because not only is are there is their
GKiwRC8EA5u-00286-00060204-00060341 reputation on the line yes they got to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00287-00060341-00060454 make money but it's their reputation
GKiwRC8EA5u-00288-00060455-00060671 their company's reputation most sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00289-00060672-00060923 people do what they do out of a state of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00290-00060924-00061066 caring about the customer and wanting
GKiwRC8EA5u-00291-00061067-00061354 this to work not I'm trying to you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00292-00061355-00061649 kill my Professional Services p l so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00293-00061650-00061769 that's that's the first thing to start
GKiwRC8EA5u-00294-00061770-00061882 with
GKiwRC8EA5u-00295-00061883-00061949 um
GKiwRC8EA5u-00296-00061950-00062237 but remember that sales people when
GKiwRC8EA5u-00297-00062238-00062429 times get tight they're going to sell
GKiwRC8EA5u-00298-00062429-00062615 what they understand they're going to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00299-00062616-00062765 sell what they know they're going to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00300-00062766-00063203 sell what's easy okay and if you as
GKiwRC8EA5u-00301-00063204-00063413 service leaders and people who are in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00302-00063414-00063611 charge of the offer can't make it clear
GKiwRC8EA5u-00303-00063612-00063947 to sales what the value is that they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00304-00063948-00064144 giving away and that means they can't
GKiwRC8EA5u-00305-00064145-00064294 position it the right way yeah that's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00306-00064295-00064450 going to get lopped off and so that's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00307-00064451-00064691 part of your homework as service leaders
GKiwRC8EA5u-00308-00064691-00064888 is to make it easy for sales to sell
GKiwRC8EA5u-00309-00064889-00065113 make the value proposition really clear
GKiwRC8EA5u-00310-00065114-00065387 bundled around outcomes and then you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00311-00065388-00065699 know get on board you know policy is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00312-00065700-00065921 okay setting some rules and Bounds is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00313-00065922-00066041 also yeah that's where I mean that's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00314-00066042-00066155 where I was going to go with that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00315-00066156-00066394 because I think so it's getting tough
GKiwRC8EA5u-00316-00066395-00066550 out there it's competitive I don't have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00317-00066551-00066700 as many deals so I'm going to try to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00318-00066701-00066826 sweeten the pot right that's going to be
GKiwRC8EA5u-00319-00066827-00067067 a natural inclination and I think your
GKiwRC8EA5u-00320-00067068-00067235 point policy I think of things like deal
GKiwRC8EA5u-00321-00067236-00067517 desks where the deal doesn't go to the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00322-00067518-00067679 customer no if that stuff's getting
GKiwRC8EA5u-00323-00067680-00067943 thrown in because you all the company
GKiwRC8EA5u-00324-00067944-00068273 needs that service Revenue well and I'll
GKiwRC8EA5u-00325-00068274-00068429 give you one we talked about all the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00326-00068430-00068609 data points we've shown up here
GKiwRC8EA5u-00327-00068610-00068956 um when companies take the time to have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00328-00068957-00069191 a formalized review by Services okay
GKiwRC8EA5u-00329-00069192-00069317 where they have some teeth where
GKiwRC8EA5u-00330-00069318-00069605 Services can stop a deal if they don't
GKiwRC8EA5u-00331-00069606-00069761 feel confident that the thing can get
GKiwRC8EA5u-00332-00069762-00070103 implemented win rates actually go up you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00333-00070104-00070253 know not a lot but they go up some and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00334-00070254-00070403 what's even better about that we talk
GKiwRC8EA5u-00335-00070404-00070709 about later is expansion rates improve
GKiwRC8EA5u-00336-00070710-00070931 renewal rates improve like why because
GKiwRC8EA5u-00337-00070932-00071176 how will you you know Drive customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00338-00071177-00071369 success if you're spending the first
GKiwRC8EA5u-00339-00071370-00071543 nine months arguing about why the thing
GKiwRC8EA5u-00340-00071544-00071800 doesn't work yeah um so you know you've
GKiwRC8EA5u-00341-00071801-00071969 got to do the right deal up front and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00342-00071970-00072113 services have got to be able to put that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00343-00072114-00072263 in there we can't just discount that and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00344-00072264-00072503 give it away yeah I mean again you want
GKiwRC8EA5u-00345-00072504-00072694 the good deals the right deals with the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00346-00072695-00072887 right customers for sure
GKiwRC8EA5u-00347-00072888-00073169 um so so this one this rule of 40 is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00348-00073170-00073379 dead and I'm going to put this one on
GKiwRC8EA5u-00349-00073380-00073661 the on the table because and again we
GKiwRC8EA5u-00350-00073662-00073781 talked about this morning what the rule
GKiwRC8EA5u-00351-00073782-00074117 of 40 is and it is a lens that Venture
GKiwRC8EA5u-00352-00074118-00074267 capitals have been using to say hey this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00353-00074268-00074417 is a great company because it's a rule
GKiwRC8EA5u-00354-00074418-00074609 of 40 company and I can tell you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00355-00074610-00074897 tracking data every quarter there
GKiwRC8EA5u-00356-00074898-00075041 haven't been a lot of rule of 40
GKiwRC8EA5u-00357-00075042-00075197 companies for quite a while
GKiwRC8EA5u-00358-00075198-00075431 for quite a while and and the rule of 40
GKiwRC8EA5u-00359-00075432-00075617 companies that you do find are the old
GKiwRC8EA5u-00360-00075618-00075821 traditional tech companies that have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00361-00075822-00075953 started growing again like you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00362-00075954-00076126 something like Microsoft and not these
GKiwRC8EA5u-00363-00076127-00076421 SAS companies right so so if that goes
GKiwRC8EA5u-00364-00076422-00076582 off the table and people start you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00365-00076583-00077050 stop chasing it as a as success right do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00366-00077051-00077200 you guys are you hearing that from your
GKiwRC8EA5u-00367-00077201-00077381 members that hey we're kind of off of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00368-00077382-00077519 that train or do you think it's still in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00369-00077520-00077632 play
GKiwRC8EA5u-00370-00077633-00077843 yeah I would say from customer success
GKiwRC8EA5u-00371-00077844-00078029 they're really looking at how much more
GKiwRC8EA5u-00372-00078030-00078143 Revenue can they grow for the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00373-00078144-00078347 organization that's just the rule of 40
GKiwRC8EA5u-00374-00078348-00078611 is just a minimum threshold right
GKiwRC8EA5u-00375-00078612-00078838 and the bar has been set much higher so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00376-00078839-00078988 they're trying to perform to that higher
GKiwRC8EA5u-00377-00078989-00079150 level function because they have a board
GKiwRC8EA5u-00378-00079151-00079432 to answer to so so caring more about
GKiwRC8EA5u-00379-00079433-00079673 Revenue anything you're hearing from
GKiwRC8EA5u-00380-00079674-00079847 members in terms of how they
GKiwRC8EA5u-00381-00079848-00080056 value success I should be really honest
GKiwRC8EA5u-00382-00080057-00080255 here it gives me anxiety just to hear
GKiwRC8EA5u-00383-00080256-00080488 rule of 40. yeah because most of my
GKiwRC8EA5u-00384-00080489-00080806 career I've inherited rule of 40 valid
GKiwRC8EA5u-00385-00080807-00080962 business strategies but then on the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00386-00080963-00081143 services side had to keep that promise
GKiwRC8EA5u-00387-00081144-00081461 yeah yeah every rule of 40 company is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00388-00081462-00081797 not built the same yeah and and they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00389-00081798-00081965 I don't know it never felt right to me
GKiwRC8EA5u-00390-00081966-00082132 so I'm kind of glad to see the rule of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00391-00082133-00082325 35 stepping up it makes a lot more sense
GKiwRC8EA5u-00392-00082326-00082582 to control those sales costs yeah yeah I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00393-00082583-00082829 think I mean I I really again what I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00394-00082830-00083044 track I've seen such a significant pivot
GKiwRC8EA5u-00395-00083045-00083285 on the way investors are thinking and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00396-00083286-00083488 talking about this so I I think I did a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00397-00083489-00083735 webinar two quarters ago and I I put the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00398-00083736-00083962 big you know rip rip rule of 40 I think
GKiwRC8EA5u-00399-00083963-00084088 I I feel
GKiwRC8EA5u-00400-00084089-00084347 it's it's going away but this one is a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00401-00084348-00084700 little more controversial oh yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-00402-00084701-00084869 is NPS
GKiwRC8EA5u-00403-00084870-00085229 dead Stephen Fulkerson yeah let's start
GKiwRC8EA5u-00404-00085230-00085444 we'll start hearing the promoters of NPS
GKiwRC8EA5u-00405-00085445-00085709 groaning When I Say Yes
GKiwRC8EA5u-00406-00085710-00085997 um I hear more detractors than I hear of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00407-00085998-00086219 promoters of NPS when you take a look at
GKiwRC8EA5u-00408-00086220-00086417 our data we kind of see that NPS peaked
GKiwRC8EA5u-00409-00086418-00086693 at 2021 that's kind of when it was at
GKiwRC8EA5u-00410-00086694-00087047 its at its you know greatest Arc in in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00411-00087048-00087269 the category but right now when you talk
GKiwRC8EA5u-00412-00087270-00087491 to CS Executives they're like NPS was
GKiwRC8EA5u-00413-00087492-00087755 great back in 2007 when we were starting
GKiwRC8EA5u-00414-00087756-00088037 this capex to Opex journey and we were
GKiwRC8EA5u-00415-00088038-00088181 trying to figure out the metric that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00416-00088182-00088397 could give us some kind of value so you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00417-00088398-00088541 know God bless Fred reichelt for
GKiwRC8EA5u-00418-00088542-00088762 bringing it to us but now we have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00419-00088763-00088961 adoption Frameworks we have Telemetry
GKiwRC8EA5u-00420-00088962-00089141 that gives us greater insights and value
GKiwRC8EA5u-00421-00089142-00089344 and with that we can have better
GKiwRC8EA5u-00422-00089345-00089621 predictability so NPS if you talk to a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00423-00089622-00089753 lot of the Cs Executives or I could
GKiwRC8EA5u-00424-00089754-00089903 point out several here they may not want
GKiwRC8EA5u-00425-00089904-00090125 to talk but they're like I just do it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00426-00090126-00090281 because marketing says I have to do it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00427-00090282-00090515 sales wants to put it on our website but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00428-00090516-00090676 it doesn't get me within one to three
GKiwRC8EA5u-00429-00090677-00090862 percent of my ability to predictory 10
GKiwRC8EA5u-00430-00090863-00091099 tension which is different than renewals
GKiwRC8EA5u-00431-00091100-00091373 I can retain somebody but I don't know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00432-00091374-00091553 if they're going to get there all the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00433-00091554-00091768 way at 100 so NPS will tell it's a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00434-00091769-00091949 branding right it's giving you brand
GKiwRC8EA5u-00435-00091950-00092194 recognition but it doesn't tell you I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00436-00092195-00092375 can give you a 10 and still not renew
GKiwRC8EA5u-00437-00092376-00092668 100 of my value I can be a million
GKiwRC8EA5u-00438-00092669-00092915 dollar customer give you a 10. yeah yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-00439-00092916-00093131 I'm a promoter but then I'm only going
GKiwRC8EA5u-00440-00093132-00093335 to renew 500 million now I got to lay
GKiwRC8EA5u-00441-00093336-00093509 people off so that's the disconnect
GKiwRC8EA5u-00442-00093510-00093737 between NPS and it really giving us any
GKiwRC8EA5u-00443-00093738-00093893 kind of volume well I mean you and I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00444-00093894-00094025 have been going back and forth on this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00445-00094026-00094325 one for a while and I've I believe in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00446-00094326-00094582 this one as well I think NPS is is not
GKiwRC8EA5u-00447-00094583-00094865 serving us well anymore and I'm sure
GKiwRC8EA5u-00448-00094866-00095050 that's heresy to many people in the room
GKiwRC8EA5u-00449-00095051-00095285 here but I'm gonna put another Nuance on
GKiwRC8EA5u-00450-00095286-00095465 the table that I just took out of a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00451-00095466-00095687 meeting a healthcare tech board meeting
GKiwRC8EA5u-00452-00095688-00095897 in this observation
GKiwRC8EA5u-00453-00095898-00096215 was these companies saying our NPS score
GKiwRC8EA5u-00454-00096216-00096461 is going down as we do more remote
GKiwRC8EA5u-00455-00096462-00096587 delivery
GKiwRC8EA5u-00456-00096588-00096718 but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00457-00096719-00096862 there's we don't see any correlation
GKiwRC8EA5u-00458-00096863-00097109 with renewals or anything else and so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00459-00097110-00097253 there's this weirdness right now because
GKiwRC8EA5u-00460-00097254-00097487 a lot of some obviously have pivoted a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00461-00097488-00097732 lot more to remote is it does seem to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00462-00097733-00097991 impact the MPS but it doesn't matter so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00463-00097992-00098141 that's something I haven't even had a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00464-00098142-00098393 chance to talk about but I want to click
GKiwRC8EA5u-00465-00098394-00098561 into that and do a little bit of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00466-00098562-00098771 research to find out companies have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00467-00098772-00099035 moved more to remote are they seeing
GKiwRC8EA5u-00468-00099036-00099275 that where MPS goes down but the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00469-00099276-00099406 customer still renews there's you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00470-00099407-00099575 they're still buying Etc that really
GKiwRC8EA5u-00471-00099576-00099785 disconnects NPS from something
GKiwRC8EA5u-00472-00099786-00100000 meaningful so so we'll see do you have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00473-00100001-00100300 any thoughts on NPS I I really enjoyed
GKiwRC8EA5u-00474-00100301-00100487 Steve Steven's answer and I feel like I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00475-00100488-00100691 would only make it worse okay I would
GKiwRC8EA5u-00476-00100692-00100949 listen to yeah that was your NPS just
GKiwRC8EA5u-00477-00100950-00101088 went up
GKiwRC8EA5u-00478-00101089-00101393 good 10 out of 10. yeah absolutely and I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00479-00101394-00101573 heard that sales cannot spell MPS is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00480-00101574-00101759 that true
GKiwRC8EA5u-00481-00101760-00101994 that's not nice
GKiwRC8EA5u-00482-00101995-00102293 yeah trust me ladies and gentlemen this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00483-00102294-00102565 is not all scripted at all
GKiwRC8EA5u-00484-00102566-00102863 I heard a little yeah yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-00485-00102864-00102940 um
GKiwRC8EA5u-00486-00102941-00103223 it doesn't really matter where CS
GKiwRC8EA5u-00487-00103224-00103456 reports and I can validate that you hear
GKiwRC8EA5u-00488-00103457-00103673 this in a while it's like a who cares
GKiwRC8EA5u-00489-00103674-00103936 where it really reports but the two
GKiwRC8EA5u-00490-00103938-00104165 natural food chains here is it goes up
GKiwRC8EA5u-00491-00104166-00104399 ultimately to a service oriented
GKiwRC8EA5u-00492-00104400-00104782 executive you know an SVP of services or
GKiwRC8EA5u-00493-00104783-00104999 a chief customer officer type which is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00494-00105000-00105178 more service oriented or it comes up
GKiwRC8EA5u-00495-00105179-00105383 through the revenue chain into like a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00496-00105383-00105466 cro
GKiwRC8EA5u-00497-00105467-00105731 we're ahead of sales so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00498-00105732-00106001 um so I'm going to start with you on
GKiwRC8EA5u-00499-00106002-00106307 this one what yes Steve what what are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00500-00106308-00106510 your thoughts in terms of of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00501-00106511-00106673 how important this is where it reports
GKiwRC8EA5u-00502-00106674-00106840 well okay so Steve and I have talked
GKiwRC8EA5u-00503-00106841-00107063 about this a lot and we've gone into
GKiwRC8EA5u-00504-00107064-00107278 this so one distinction so first of all
GKiwRC8EA5u-00505-00107279-00107458 head of sales different than cro in a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00506-00107459-00107645 lot of cases okay so yeah if you've got
GKiwRC8EA5u-00507-00107646-00107921 a true cro who's overseeing the entire
GKiwRC8EA5u-00508-00107922-00108208 Revenue function from pre-sale you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00509-00108209-00108401 past past customer success and delivery
GKiwRC8EA5u-00510-00108402-00108563 then that's a little bit different story
GKiwRC8EA5u-00511-00108564-00108731 than ahead of sales a traditional head
GKiwRC8EA5u-00512-00108732-00109049 of sales but you know you've got all the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00513-00109050-00109283 data on this as far as it actually does
GKiwRC8EA5u-00514-00109283-00109601 matter quite a bit but also say from a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00515-00109602-00109799 sales standpoint before he really lands
GKiwRC8EA5u-00516-00109800-00109960 and brings it home
GKiwRC8EA5u-00517-00109961-00110243 if you look at layer all right once a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00518-00110244-00110489 deal is landed nothing happens if
GKiwRC8EA5u-00519-00110490-00110825 adoption doesn't happen all right why
GKiwRC8EA5u-00520-00110826-00111004 would you buy more of something you're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00521-00111005-00111208 not using in the first place it makes no
GKiwRC8EA5u-00522-00111209-00111460 sense so that adoption Charter has got
GKiwRC8EA5u-00523-00111461-00111671 to be you know very much even as they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00524-00111672-00111778 handling commercials it's got to be
GKiwRC8EA5u-00525-00111779-00111958 protected right
GKiwRC8EA5u-00526-00111959-00112258 yeah and our research is pretty uh
GKiwRC8EA5u-00527-00112259-00112439 pretty telling so if you for those of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00528-00112440-00112558 you that are members you know definitely
GKiwRC8EA5u-00529-00112559-00112708 take a look at Thomas's organizational
GKiwRC8EA5u-00530-00112709-00112931 structure research for 2022 and then
GKiwRC8EA5u-00531-00112932-00113195 look at my customer success research
GKiwRC8EA5u-00532-00113196-00113465 organizational research from 2022 and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00533-00113466-00113590 then take a look at the paper we just
GKiwRC8EA5u-00534-00113591-00113734 did on the value of the chief customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00535-00113735-00114047 officer it's really telling because when
GKiwRC8EA5u-00536-00114048-00114215 we take a look at the alignment I said
GKiwRC8EA5u-00537-00114216-00114413 my last session you know from the line
GKiwRC8EA5u-00538-00114414-00114599 of Dirty Dancing Patrick Swayze says
GKiwRC8EA5u-00539-00114600-00114754 don't put baby in the corner nobody puts
GKiwRC8EA5u-00540-00114755-00114869 baby in the corner and that's what's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00541-00114870-00115073 happening in some CS organizations it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00542-00115074-00115234 just getting thrown into some
GKiwRC8EA5u-00543-00115235-00115463 organizations whether it's sales whether
GKiwRC8EA5u-00544-00115464-00115739 it's support it's just getting put
GKiwRC8EA5u-00545-00115740-00115913 someplace because we don't know what to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00546-00115914-00116086 do with it but it really does matter
GKiwRC8EA5u-00547-00116088-00116410 when we take a look at our last study CS
GKiwRC8EA5u-00548-00116411-00116633 was really it was on the downturn it was
GKiwRC8EA5u-00549-00116633-00116878 declining in all of the areas except two
GKiwRC8EA5u-00550-00116879-00117077 it was reporting more into the chief
GKiwRC8EA5u-00551-00117078-00117239 customer officer and it was reported
GKiwRC8EA5u-00552-00117240-00117490 more into the sales executive the sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00553-00117491-00117719 Executives were more so we started
GKiwRC8EA5u-00554-00117720-00117958 looking at okay what is the what's the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00555-00117959-00118228 output of that so we looked at the drr
GKiwRC8EA5u-00556-00118229-00118486 and CS organizations when they report
GKiwRC8EA5u-00557-00118488-00118690 into all of these Executives think of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00558-00118691-00119002 all the c-suite plus the sales executive
GKiwRC8EA5u-00559-00119003-00119189 um when it's they report into the CEO
GKiwRC8EA5u-00560-00119190-00119531 they have the highest drr 91 so not
GKiwRC8EA5u-00561-00119532-00119752 every CS organization reports to CEO so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00562-00119753-00119963 who's the next one well the C CEO the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00563-00119964-00120263 chief customer officer 89 when you look
GKiwRC8EA5u-00564-00120264-00120413 at the sales executive when sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00565-00120414-00120599 customer success reports into the sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00566-00120600-00120845 it goes way down to about like you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00567-00120846-00121151 83 so we're losing drr and then when we
GKiwRC8EA5u-00568-00121152-00121339 look at ACV
GKiwRC8EA5u-00569-00121340-00121531 4.6
GKiwRC8EA5u-00570-00121532-00121858 different or four times 4.6 times
GKiwRC8EA5u-00571-00121859-00122158 difference in ACV contracts if it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00572-00122159-00122345 reports into a chief customer officer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00573-00122346-00122549 versus a sales executive
GKiwRC8EA5u-00574-00122550-00122777 so you're losing money hand over Fest
GKiwRC8EA5u-00575-00122778-00123197 and and the the reason is adoption the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00576-00123198-00123431 ccos the chief customer officers they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00577-00123432-00123677 focused on the Motions of adoption where
GKiwRC8EA5u-00578-00123678-00123797 others are going to be focused on
GKiwRC8EA5u-00579-00123798-00123958 expansion and retention and that's a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00580-00123959-00124108 problem because you can't get to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00581-00124109-00124289 expansion and retention without adoption
GKiwRC8EA5u-00582-00124290-00124457 and that's what's the key mess with
GKiwRC8EA5u-00583-00124458-00124684 these Executives so if you're not if
GKiwRC8EA5u-00584-00124685-00124810 your organization isn't thinking about
GKiwRC8EA5u-00585-00124811-00124984 org structure it doesn't matter I am
GKiwRC8EA5u-00586-00124985-00125177 promising you you're losing Millions if
GKiwRC8EA5u-00587-00125178-00125302 you're not thinking about that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00588-00125303-00125513 organizational structure yeah and I to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00589-00125514-00125771 me the definitive thing on this the org
GKiwRC8EA5u-00590-00125772-00125890 structure survey we've been doing for
GKiwRC8EA5u-00591-00125891-00126089 years and what we test on that is where
GKiwRC8EA5u-00592-00126090-00126340 do functions report and then we test you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00593-00126341-00126454 know are they basically carrying their
GKiwRC8EA5u-00594-00126455-00126628 own water are they profitable are they
GKiwRC8EA5u-00595-00126629-00126827 you know highly unprofitable just a cost
GKiwRC8EA5u-00596-00126828-00127036 center and when CS reports up through
GKiwRC8EA5u-00597-00127038-00127204 sales it's a financial art project
GKiwRC8EA5u-00598-00127205-00127421 there's just no doubt about it you don't
GKiwRC8EA5u-00599-00127422-00127595 it's very rare for it to be profitable
GKiwRC8EA5u-00600-00127596-00127804 it's typically just you know cost of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00601-00127805-00128063 business and and that's a tough model in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00602-00128064-00128315 today's world so I think that there's a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00603-00128316-00128471 clear answer on this one I to me there's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00604-00128472-00129708 nothing it matters
GKiwRC8EA5u-00605-00129709-00129940 you want to play the game here get get
GKiwRC8EA5u-00606-00129941-00130133 the app out I'm going to start scrolling
GKiwRC8EA5u-00607-00130133-00130313 through for for recommendations from the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00608-00130314-00130552 audience offer management at the service
GKiwRC8EA5u-00609-00130553-00130684 line level
GKiwRC8EA5u-00610-00130685-00131039 is a problem I can't imagine now so help
GKiwRC8EA5u-00611-00131040-00131213 me out I'm a little I'm not tracking
GKiwRC8EA5u-00612-00131214-00131483 here because what is wrong with having a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00613-00131484-00131687 salesperson go out
GKiwRC8EA5u-00614-00131688-00131951 and on the Fly come up with a new offer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00615-00131952-00132185 that the customer needs I can't see any
GKiwRC8EA5u-00616-00132186-00132443 downside with that whatsoever yeah me
GKiwRC8EA5u-00617-00132444-00132587 either
GKiwRC8EA5u-00618-00132588-00132859 um my Benchmark disagrees with me though
GKiwRC8EA5u-00619-00132860-00133151 not only Not only would I not want sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00620-00133152-00133397 menting those at the at the point of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00621-00133398-00133528 sale which I think I think we're going
GKiwRC8EA5u-00622-00133529-00133811 to come to in more more detail later but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00623-00133812-00133985 I said earlier something that could get
GKiwRC8EA5u-00624-00133986-00134123 you in a lot of trouble and I want to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00625-00134124-00134273 kind of go back a little bit I said go
GKiwRC8EA5u-00626-00134274-00134459 find those premium services and I know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00627-00134460-00134645 some of you thought support
GKiwRC8EA5u-00628-00134646-00134957 I grew up in support you're right you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00629-00134958-00135143 can probably do premium support services
GKiwRC8EA5u-00630-00135144-00135299 that you're not doing today but don't
GKiwRC8EA5u-00631-00135300-00135509 stop there and that's the contention
GKiwRC8EA5u-00632-00135510-00135616 here
GKiwRC8EA5u-00633-00135617-00135899 if you just go add another option
GKiwRC8EA5u-00634-00135900-00136127 for one service line you just added
GKiwRC8EA5u-00635-00136128-00136354 complexity to your portfolio
GKiwRC8EA5u-00636-00136355-00136547 sales shouldn't be working so hard to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00637-00136548-00136727 figure out what to sell you should be
GKiwRC8EA5u-00638-00136728-00136943 more prescriptive toward them but being
GKiwRC8EA5u-00639-00136944-00137081 prescriptive is hard when you have so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00640-00137082-00137285 many options so if you're going out and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00641-00137286-00137501 doing a premium support offer consider
GKiwRC8EA5u-00642-00137502-00137663 adding some premium Education Services
GKiwRC8EA5u-00643-00137664-00137885 with it add some premium adoption
GKiwRC8EA5u-00644-00137886-00138077 services consider a good better best
GKiwRC8EA5u-00645-00138078-00138233 stack of those for the market you're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00646-00138234-00138466 addressing don't stop with a single
GKiwRC8EA5u-00647-00138467-00138647 service line value the data says
GKiwRC8EA5u-00648-00138648-00138893 converging convergence is happening
GKiwRC8EA5u-00649-00138894-00139043 these services are coming together the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00650-00139044-00139211 way we deliver them and the way we
GKiwRC8EA5u-00651-00139212-00139319 Market them
GKiwRC8EA5u-00652-00139320-00139619 so don't stop with support is probably
GKiwRC8EA5u-00653-00139620-00139763 the primary message if you're in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00654-00139764-00139913 Services engineering and Professional
GKiwRC8EA5u-00655-00139914-00140140 Services if you're in a formal offer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00656-00140141-00140352 Management Group and manage services
GKiwRC8EA5u-00657-00140353-00140716 same thing think about cross-service
GKiwRC8EA5u-00658-00140717-00140951 bundles that's where the goods at
GKiwRC8EA5u-00659-00140952-00141161 I know I'm being really preachy here but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00660-00141162-00141311 offer management at the service level
GKiwRC8EA5u-00661-00141312-00141640 problem is adding choice and complexity
GKiwRC8EA5u-00662-00141641-00141923 so and I and I apologize I misspoke or
GKiwRC8EA5u-00663-00141924-00142121 misread the challenge here so I mean
GKiwRC8EA5u-00664-00142122-00142385 this issue of everybody has their own
GKiwRC8EA5u-00665-00142386-00142649 services that they love across support
GKiwRC8EA5u-00666-00142650-00142895 and see us and everything is becoming
GKiwRC8EA5u-00667-00142896-00143231 more problematic and but I think and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00668-00143232-00143440 we've been advocating for Combined
GKiwRC8EA5u-00669-00143441-00143675 solution or service portfolio management
GKiwRC8EA5u-00670-00143676-00144052 for quite a while right and but do you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00671-00144053-00144383 see companies actually leaning into that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00672-00144384-00144623 more or or is it still sort of status
GKiwRC8EA5u-00673-00144624-00144899 quo so some minority people do it most
GKiwRC8EA5u-00674-00144900-00145073 of them still optimizing at each line
GKiwRC8EA5u-00675-00145074-00145243 what do you see again with the anxiety
GKiwRC8EA5u-00676-00145244-00145654 the majority still are not looking at
GKiwRC8EA5u-00677-00145655-00145835 the service portfolio across the board
GKiwRC8EA5u-00678-00145836-00145990 what we would call service portfolio
GKiwRC8EA5u-00679-00145991-00146140 management it's stubbornly around 40
GKiwRC8EA5u-00680-00146141-00146321 percent in in country organizational
GKiwRC8EA5u-00681-00146322-00146513 study yeah the trends in service
GKiwRC8EA5u-00682-00146514-00146704 portfolios just validated that at right
GKiwRC8EA5u-00683-00146705-00146914 around 40 percent it was about 30
GKiwRC8EA5u-00684-00146915-00147047 percent a little bit less than that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00685-00147048-00147233 still doing service offer management and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00686-00147234-00147509 distinct service lines and the biggest
GKiwRC8EA5u-00687-00147510-00147731 the third category is other it's all
GKiwRC8EA5u-00688-00147732-00148066 over the place CX down Service delivery
GKiwRC8EA5u-00689-00148067-00148271 leaders doing the offer so there's a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00690-00148272-00148499 broad variety of practice now yeah and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00691-00148500-00148678 the advantage is with those that treat
GKiwRC8EA5u-00692-00148679-00148901 all services like a portfolio yeah and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00693-00148902-00149063 manage it like that like it's a product
GKiwRC8EA5u-00694-00149064-00149327 management job yeah which it is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00695-00149328-00149633 so from the sales perspective right
GKiwRC8EA5u-00696-00149634-00149878 let's talk about the world where you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00697-00149879-00150125 have all it's not rationalized right you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00698-00150126-00150299 have all these different Service Groups
GKiwRC8EA5u-00699-00150300-00150533 throwing their offers at sales and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00700-00150534-00150659 saying oh here's my great support offers
GKiwRC8EA5u-00701-00150660-00150940 here's my great yeah so like what is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00702-00150941-00151169 sales supposed to do with that what do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00703-00151170-00151390 they do with that then that's why they
GKiwRC8EA5u-00704-00151391-00151619 discounted and give it away right yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-00705-00151620-00151877 look yeah seriously no we're not we're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00706-00151878-00152002 not we're actually not kidding about
GKiwRC8EA5u-00707-00152003-00152213 this I mean and I know you we're losing
GKiwRC8EA5u-00708-00152214-00152357 glib and it's very easy to blame the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00709-00152358-00152495 sales person for well they don't
GKiwRC8EA5u-00710-00152496-00152651 understand the value of my services well
GKiwRC8EA5u-00711-00152652-00152783 okay do you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00712-00152784-00153004 can you articulate to that to them
GKiwRC8EA5u-00713-00153005-00153214 and are you just leaving it to them to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00714-00153215-00153352 figure out which ones to attach and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00715-00153353-00153526 which ones to give away if there's not a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00716-00153527-00153689 plan then they're going to do what they
GKiwRC8EA5u-00717-00153690-00153911 got to do to get the deal right or at
GKiwRC8EA5u-00718-00153912-00154031 least what they perceive they have to do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00719-00154032-00154228 to get the deal yeah and if they're not
GKiwRC8EA5u-00720-00154229-00154439 factoring in what happens after they do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00721-00154440-00154607 the deal because we don't have the right
GKiwRC8EA5u-00722-00154608-00154873 offers for education or support
GKiwRC8EA5u-00723-00154874-00155111 that's you know problems down the line
GKiwRC8EA5u-00724-00155112-00155290 and a recurring Revenue world where the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00725-00155291-00155476 vast majority of the cash is going to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00726-00155477-00155657 change hands in year two year three year
GKiwRC8EA5u-00727-00155658-00155878 four you've got to have that right
GKiwRC8EA5u-00728-00155879-00156131 portfolio on the deal or things really
GKiwRC8EA5u-00729-00156132-00156437 suffer down the line so you represent a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00730-00156438-00156773 service line why can't you give offer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00731-00156774-00156976 definition to him and make his life
GKiwRC8EA5u-00732-00156977-00157199 easier what's the problem here
GKiwRC8EA5u-00733-00157200-00157535 why are people holding on to it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00734-00157536-00157728 um I think it's territorial right
GKiwRC8EA5u-00735-00157729-00157978 customer success feels like Hey we're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00736-00157979-00158116 out front we're talking to the customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00737-00158117-00158345 we're engaging with the customer we know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00738-00158346-00158537 what's best for the customer yeah but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00739-00158538-00158669 we're not always the experts at
GKiwRC8EA5u-00740-00158670-00158854 developing the offers right that's where
GKiwRC8EA5u-00741-00158855-00159011 we have to get to the offer management
GKiwRC8EA5u-00742-00159012-00159245 team they test the market they they
GKiwRC8EA5u-00743-00159246-00159466 spend the time investing in it and so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00744-00159467-00159628 there has to be the collaboration that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00745-00159629-00159785 working together to make it successful
GKiwRC8EA5u-00746-00159786-00160085 yeah we spend so much time worrying
GKiwRC8EA5u-00747-00160086-00160366 about who's selling it and what we're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00748-00160367-00160547 going to pay them and we don't spend
GKiwRC8EA5u-00749-00160548-00160697 enough time worrying about what they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00750-00160698-00160913 selling because what they're selling is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00751-00160914-00161075 way more important than who's selling it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00752-00161076-00161176 or how they're selling it if you don't
GKiwRC8EA5u-00753-00161177-00161357 get the what they're selling right yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-00754-00161358-00161501 it's not going to work yeah I mean I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00755-00161502-00161728 think the reality is in in I don't want
GKiwRC8EA5u-00756-00161729-00161957 anybody who's in offer you know designed
GKiwRC8EA5u-00757-00161958-00162166 to take ownership with this but but it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00758-00162167-00162352 typically is a weaker muscle to your
GKiwRC8EA5u-00759-00162353-00162557 point in most tech companies it's a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00760-00162558-00162664 weaker muscle
GKiwRC8EA5u-00761-00162665-00162893 and that's problematic in itself and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00762-00162894-00163054 then again when you just throwing a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00763-00163055-00163187 bunch of stuff out and creating all this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00764-00163188-00163373 complexity for both sales and your
GKiwRC8EA5u-00765-00163374-00163631 customer it's insult injury so I think
GKiwRC8EA5u-00766-00163632-00163847 it is absolutely a winning move to build
GKiwRC8EA5u-00767-00163848-00164087 a really strong muscle there that has
GKiwRC8EA5u-00768-00164088-00164278 best practices really knows how to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00769-00164279-00164423 create a compelling portfolio the value
GKiwRC8EA5u-00770-00164424-00164711 proposition and it's rationalized across
GKiwRC8EA5u-00771-00164712-00164902 service lines I'm really learning a lot
GKiwRC8EA5u-00772-00164903-00165113 from these two yeah yeah yeah I know wow
GKiwRC8EA5u-00773-00165114-00165376 so what I what I said I think is is is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00774-00165377-00165604 spot on but I know that there's in the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00775-00165605-00165754 audience here there's going to be a lot
GKiwRC8EA5u-00776-00165755-00166054 of I am not ready to do that but just on
GKiwRC8EA5u-00777-00166055-00166235 board that think about it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00778-00166236-00166361 um next one
GKiwRC8EA5u-00779-00166362-00166702 if your cro can't spell data they are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00780-00166703-00166943 not a cro you have a Serial Council well
GKiwRC8EA5u-00781-00166944-00167128 the canal spell data we're spending a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00782-00167129-00167237 lot of time today worrying about what
GKiwRC8EA5u-00783-00167238-00167383 sales people can spell
GKiwRC8EA5u-00784-00167384-00167590 we are most of us went to college
GKiwRC8EA5u-00785-00167591-00167764 there's a reason for that Steve but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00786-00167765-00167933 anyway I know it look
GKiwRC8EA5u-00787-00167934-00168071 um
GKiwRC8EA5u-00788-00168072-00168443 data is going to be so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00789-00168444-00168719 incredibly important to efficient
GKiwRC8EA5u-00790-00168720-00168899 Revenue growth
GKiwRC8EA5u-00791-00168900-00169054 um and where we see when we think sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00792-00169055-00169240 data it's okay what's in our CRM and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00793-00169241-00169397 I've got forecasting what do you mean I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00794-00169398-00169649 can invest more in data uh no it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00795-00169650-00169859 really starting to think about all of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00796-00169860-00170087 the silos and pulling not just the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00797-00170088-00170249 revenue functions together but all of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00798-00170250-00170387 their data together to get a full
GKiwRC8EA5u-00799-00170388-00170549 picture and I'll give you a couple
GKiwRC8EA5u-00800-00170550-00170735 things to think about just from a data
GKiwRC8EA5u-00801-00170736-00170939 perspective to help your cro because
GKiwRC8EA5u-00802-00170940-00171064 you're right if it's if they're not
GKiwRC8EA5u-00803-00171065-00171190 Forward Thinking you've got a sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-00804-00171191-00171401 leader who's not really pushing the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00805-00171402-00171719 envelope on on on what they can do with
GKiwRC8EA5u-00806-00171720-00171904 data analytics then then you need to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00807-00171905-00172090 help them okay because they need to do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00808-00172091-00172331 it so first of all when you look at the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00809-00172332-00172499 layer model we've talked about a player
GKiwRC8EA5u-00810-00172500-00172733 and you know again analyze place and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00811-00172734-00172954 then layer leveraging data to help you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00812-00172955-00173107 in the sales process
GKiwRC8EA5u-00813-00173108-00173519 start back to front on that get really
GKiwRC8EA5u-00814-00173520-00173752 good at your renewal metrics your
GKiwRC8EA5u-00815-00173753-00173926 propensity to renew models your red
GKiwRC8EA5u-00816-00173927-00174221 flags your consumption models because if
GKiwRC8EA5u-00817-00174222-00174431 you know what a good customer looks like
GKiwRC8EA5u-00818-00174432-00174575 you know they're a good customer because
GKiwRC8EA5u-00819-00174576-00174863 they're renewing okay that informs the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00820-00174864-00175019 rest of the model that can go all the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00821-00175020-00175223 way back to the Land part of it and the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00822-00175224-00175349 second thing I'll tell you since we have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00823-00175350-00175637 a lot of service Executives here you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00824-00175638-00175961 have a lot of data that your cro and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00825-00175962-00176273 your sales people need okay they need to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00826-00176274-00176452 understand the problems the customer is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00827-00176453-00176669 having they need access to support logs
GKiwRC8EA5u-00828-00176670-00176797 so they can see who's having trouble
GKiwRC8EA5u-00829-00176798-00177052 they need access to understand you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00830-00177053-00177287 what sort of uh of statements of work
GKiwRC8EA5u-00831-00177288-00177569 are going well what isn't going well and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00832-00177570-00177719 if you have that data but you're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00833-00177720-00177875 hoarding it it makes it very very
GKiwRC8EA5u-00834-00177876-00178073 difficult for your sales organization to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00835-00178074-00178283 become data driven like they need to be
GKiwRC8EA5u-00836-00178284-00178511 yeah it's interesting again another
GKiwRC8EA5u-00837-00178512-00178649 conversation that I've had in the last
GKiwRC8EA5u-00838-00178650-00178990 24 hours about these data silos yeah and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00839-00178991-00179171 that you know to have the Holy view of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00840-00179172-00179273 the customer and all this kind of good
GKiwRC8EA5u-00841-00179274-00179585 stuff we've we've got to be giving that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00842-00179586-00179890 you know to to a central perspective so
GKiwRC8EA5u-00843-00179891-00180113 we can really make hay with it and and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00844-00180114-00180311 again that's a thing that's culturally
GKiwRC8EA5u-00845-00180312-00180683 often we you know that's my sales data
GKiwRC8EA5u-00846-00180684-00180857 my CS data my whatever data if I was
GKiwRC8EA5u-00847-00180858-00181007 giving advice to somebody who and I
GKiwRC8EA5u-00848-00181008-00181145 actually did not too long ago gives
GKiwRC8EA5u-00849-00181146-00181295 advice to someone who said they were
GKiwRC8EA5u-00850-00181296-00181414 looking to be coming and taking on the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00851-00181415-00181643 cro role yeah I told them you get like
GKiwRC8EA5u-00852-00181644-00181852 James Bond level access to everybody's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00853-00181853-00182069 data silence yeah because if you don't
GKiwRC8EA5u-00854-00182070-00182207 do that you can't see the big picture
GKiwRC8EA5u-00855-00182208-00182338 yeah absolutely absolutely I've
GKiwRC8EA5u-00856-00182339-00182602 interviewed a lot of cros on tectonic
GKiwRC8EA5u-00857-00182603-00182909 and boy you you know when you have what
GKiwRC8EA5u-00858-00182910-00183143 I the enlightened cro they are thinking
GKiwRC8EA5u-00859-00183144-00183328 very differently than a traditional
GKiwRC8EA5u-00860-00183329-00183545 sales executive they are very data
GKiwRC8EA5u-00861-00183546-00183683 driven and they're thinking about all
GKiwRC8EA5u-00862-00183684-00183887 their channels like this conversation of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00863-00183888-00184061 Haitian renewals be over here you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00864-00184062-00184252 whatever they are that's how they see
GKiwRC8EA5u-00865-00184253-00184361 the world they don't see the world to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00866-00184362-00184588 this blunt instrument of okay I have a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00867-00184589-00184763 sales Channel and maybe a channel
GKiwRC8EA5u-00868-00184764-00184990 channel right and that's it so all right
GKiwRC8EA5u-00869-00184991-00185164 we are getting some great questions in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00870-00185165-00185254 here
GKiwRC8EA5u-00871-00185255-00185416 and so I'm going to just start I'm gonna
GKiwRC8EA5u-00872-00185417-00185711 start accessing these and this one here
GKiwRC8EA5u-00873-00185712-00185890 I think sort of builds off what you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00874-00185891-00186107 start to put on the table and it is a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00875-00186108-00186371 customer success owns churn does
GKiwRC8EA5u-00876-00186372-00186640 customer success own churn
GKiwRC8EA5u-00877-00186641-00186887 well if they have the ownership of
GKiwRC8EA5u-00878-00186888-00187157 renewals uh yes they have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00879-00187158-00187361 they have that responsibility if it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00880-00187362-00187613 owned by sales and success as a partner
GKiwRC8EA5u-00881-00187614-00187871 in it then it's a partner-owned Endeavor
GKiwRC8EA5u-00882-00187872-00188111 but at the end of the day if they own
GKiwRC8EA5u-00883-00188112-00188471 the customer engagement process then
GKiwRC8EA5u-00884-00188472-00188626 they own the customer experience then
GKiwRC8EA5u-00885-00188627-00188825 they own the adoption and I'm going to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00886-00188826-00189011 completely disagree with you adoption is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00887-00189012-00189178 a part completely disagree with you all
GKiwRC8EA5u-00888-00189179-00189487 right so what if it is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00889-00189488-00189814 a it's a super shitty product
GKiwRC8EA5u-00890-00189815-00190301 this customer success owner
GKiwRC8EA5u-00891-00190302-00190421 well
GKiwRC8EA5u-00892-00190422-00190657 um I know what they're thinking
GKiwRC8EA5u-00893-00190658-00191009 if it's if it's super yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-00894-00191010-00191249 um it's more of a we've got work to do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00895-00191250-00191476 but they should own the engagement and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00896-00191477-00191638 be working with product management to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00897-00191639-00191849 help communicate from the customer that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00898-00191850-00192083 closed loop feedback to get you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-00899-00192084-00192263 product management to go how can we fix
GKiwRC8EA5u-00900-00192264-00192395 this to make it better so that the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00901-00192396-00192611 customer has so there is a park that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00902-00192612-00192833 they play in in that chair and ownership
GKiwRC8EA5u-00903-00192834-00192988 that's what I'm chipping at because
GKiwRC8EA5u-00904-00192989-00193157 that's what I put on the table I'd
GKiwRC8EA5u-00905-00193158-00193373 respond to this is that if the product
GKiwRC8EA5u-00906-00193374-00193613 is got all kind of problems issues if
GKiwRC8EA5u-00907-00193614-00193823 the offer is poorly defined there's not
GKiwRC8EA5u-00908-00193824-00194081 enough real value there if sales sold
GKiwRC8EA5u-00909-00194082-00194249 the wrong customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00910-00194250-00194554 right then it's unfair to say that CS
GKiwRC8EA5u-00911-00194555-00194771 owns churn I I think you know so I think
GKiwRC8EA5u-00912-00194772-00194969 it's those that will go back to us on
GKiwRC8EA5u-00913-00194970-00195076 building off what you're saying it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-00914-00195077-00195413 going back and doing the the forensics
GKiwRC8EA5u-00915-00195414-00195635 to say why did that customer churn oh
GKiwRC8EA5u-00916-00195636-00195887 value proposition wrong customer profile
GKiwRC8EA5u-00917-00195888-00196031 you know oh by the way quality issues
GKiwRC8EA5u-00918-00196032-00196121 they couldn't
GKiwRC8EA5u-00919-00196122-00196288 that's the mentality we have to have
GKiwRC8EA5u-00920-00196289-00196481 because I think if it's one throat to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00921-00196482-00196709 choke on churn that's going to be a
GKiwRC8EA5u-00922-00196710-00196840 losing model so I think that was a great
GKiwRC8EA5u-00923-00196841-00197111 question thanks whoever submitted that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00924-00197112-00197219 um and I got to go with the ones that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00925-00197220-00197525 are getting voted up here okay
GKiwRC8EA5u-00926-00197526-00197681 top of the list right now ladies and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00927-00197682-00197921 gentlemen customers won't pay for the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00928-00197922-00198161 support they've historically gotten for
GKiwRC8EA5u-00929-00198162-00198245 free
GKiwRC8EA5u-00930-00198246-00198493 you're on correct
GKiwRC8EA5u-00931-00198494-00198899 correct okay next one that's that's why
GKiwRC8EA5u-00932-00198900-00199102 you don't give support for free but
GKiwRC8EA5u-00933-00199103-00199313 let's assume that you're in the majority
GKiwRC8EA5u-00934-00199314-00199643 and you've already done it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00935-00199644-00200002 and that new customers don't know that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00936-00200003-00200200 and everyone you have is part of your
GKiwRC8EA5u-00937-00200201-00200381 migration plan right and you have the
GKiwRC8EA5u-00938-00200382-00200566 strategy for your migration and you can
GKiwRC8EA5u-00939-00200567-00200843 identify those populations that are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00940-00200844-00201040 resistant because they've gotten it for
GKiwRC8EA5u-00941-00201041-00201364 free maybe you need a special Play Just
GKiwRC8EA5u-00942-00201365-00201604 for those customers to turn them we're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00943-00201605-00201749 gonna for the next three months continue
GKiwRC8EA5u-00944-00201750-00201976 this premium level of coverage and then
GKiwRC8EA5u-00945-00201977-00202181 you're gonna have to buy into it that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00946-00202182-00202319 might be a strategy for someone you're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00947-00202320-00202523 willing to lose maybe others you just
GKiwRC8EA5u-00948-00202524-00202685 grandfathered the men
GKiwRC8EA5u-00949-00202686-00202919 the point is you most of you already
GKiwRC8EA5u-00950-00202920-00203128 made this mistake don't let it stop you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00951-00203129-00203326 from fixing it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00952-00203327-00203537 put the premium to Market focus on net
GKiwRC8EA5u-00953-00203538-00203783 new build a proper migration plan and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00954-00203784-00203909 bring them along
GKiwRC8EA5u-00955-00203910-00204149 I've seen it over and over and over
GKiwRC8EA5u-00956-00204150-00204316 again it's not even that hard it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00957-00204317-00204431 requires persistence and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00958-00204432-00204635 cross-functional collaboration
GKiwRC8EA5u-00959-00204636-00204797 but what's amazing is
GKiwRC8EA5u-00960-00204798-00205066 and actually it's a little befuddling to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00961-00205067-00205312 me we've already learned this lesson in
GKiwRC8EA5u-00962-00205313-00205444 the industry this is what's so amazing
GKiwRC8EA5u-00963-00205446-00205666 even in the executive Advisory board
GKiwRC8EA5u-00964-00205667-00205798 that we had yesterday there was this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00965-00205800-00205996 debate and it goes something like this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00966-00205998-00206201 some of the support stuff you got to do
GKiwRC8EA5u-00967-00206202-00206405 support for free because the customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-00968-00206406-00206627 says well are you telling me your Co you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00969-00206628-00206782 know your product is so crappy that now
GKiwRC8EA5u-00970-00206783-00206969 I have to pay for support right why are
GKiwRC8EA5u-00971-00206969-00207112 you charging me for this one don't you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00972-00207113-00207275 make your product better right well
GKiwRC8EA5u-00973-00207276-00207460 that's a Trope that goes back 30 years
GKiwRC8EA5u-00974-00207461-00207610 and for people who are too young to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00975-00207611-00207721 remember
GKiwRC8EA5u-00976-00207721-00208001 PCS used to come with a free three-year
GKiwRC8EA5u-00977-00208002-00208205 warranty
GKiwRC8EA5u-00978-00208206-00208421 do people remember that
GKiwRC8EA5u-00979-00208421-00208696 and until they didn't why
GKiwRC8EA5u-00980-00208698-00208931 because we can't afford to do that and
GKiwRC8EA5u-00981-00208932-00209177 we had to walk that back and if you want
GKiwRC8EA5u-00982-00209178-00209386 that premium support you're going to pay
GKiwRC8EA5u-00983-00209387-00209525 for it and there's value in it and you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00984-00209526-00209632 get this response and you get these
GKiwRC8EA5u-00985-00209633-00209867 projects so we've had to do this before
GKiwRC8EA5u-00986-00209867-00210089 and so anybody who has a SAS offer where
GKiwRC8EA5u-00987-00210090-00210244 a bunch of stuff's bundled in there
GKiwRC8EA5u-00988-00210246-00210377 you're saying oh my gosh they're
GKiwRC8EA5u-00989-00210378-00210575 conditioned we could never walk it back
GKiwRC8EA5u-00990-00210576-00210748 I will not on board that argument I'm
GKiwRC8EA5u-00991-00210750-00210934 sorry and you and I think importantly
GKiwRC8EA5u-00992-00210935-00211132 what you said there's a methodology to
GKiwRC8EA5u-00993-00211133-00211253 do this
GKiwRC8EA5u-00994-00211254-00211432 we've done it before we've done it
GKiwRC8EA5u-00995-00211433-00211684 decades ago we're doing it right now you
GKiwRC8EA5u-00996-00211685-00211894 just it's hard but again I I keep
GKiwRC8EA5u-00997-00211896-00212071 questioning what's going to be harder
GKiwRC8EA5u-00998-00212071-00212398 fixing these foundational problems or
GKiwRC8EA5u-00999-00212400-00212531 dealing with a crappy business model
GKiwRC8EA5u-01000-00212532-00212729 yeah I mean that's the issue yeah but
GKiwRC8EA5u-01001-00212730-00212896 that was all right just one last thing
GKiwRC8EA5u-01002-00212898-00213113 on that like there is a long storied
GKiwRC8EA5u-01003-00213114-00213448 history of companies not giving away for
GKiwRC8EA5u-01004-00213450-00213598 free anymore stuff that they used to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01005-00213600-00213742 give away for free and there's an old
GKiwRC8EA5u-01006-00213744-00213898 saying like it's only a big deal if you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01007-00213900-00214115 make it a big deal like this happens all
GKiwRC8EA5u-01008-00214116-00214282 the time and don't let your sales people
GKiwRC8EA5u-01009-00214283-00214463 well you give it away for free last year
GKiwRC8EA5u-01010-00214464-00214721 yeah you're right but there's value here
GKiwRC8EA5u-01011-00214721-00214894 so we charge for it your job just make
GKiwRC8EA5u-01012-00214896-00215153 sure you've articulated the value so
GKiwRC8EA5u-01013-00215154-00215279 that they can communicate it to the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01014-00215280-00215482 customer yeah don't discount value you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01015-00215483-00215729 know that which is giving away that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01016-00215730-00215884 which is given away for free is
GKiwRC8EA5u-01017-00215885-00216065 perceived to have a little no value so
GKiwRC8EA5u-01018-00216066-00216191 if you're giving it away for free it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01019-00216192-00216401 already perceived to have no value yes I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01020-00216402-00216634 I had this thought this morning I was
GKiwRC8EA5u-01021-00216635-00216731 eating breakfast I don't even know why
GKiwRC8EA5u-01022-00216732-00216953 but this voice of this old NBA Professor
GKiwRC8EA5u-01023-00216954-00217084 I had
GKiwRC8EA5u-01024-00217085-00217355 came into my brain and he said you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-01025-00217356-00217673 that the easiest way to make a business
GKiwRC8EA5u-01026-00217673-00217996 model more profitable is through price
GKiwRC8EA5u-01027-00217998-00218260 Mr Price I mean you suddenly I have more
GKiwRC8EA5u-01028-00218261-00218656 money same offer same cost to deliver
GKiwRC8EA5u-01029-00218657-00218908 if we take the price from zero to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01030-00218909-00219173 something we've just moved the dial
GKiwRC8EA5u-01031-00219173-00219460 right it is the easiest way to do it
GKiwRC8EA5u-01032-00219461-00219737 what can also happen there too is it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01033-00219738-00220079 organic to the culture of the company I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01034-00220080-00220234 won't say which company owns with but if
GKiwRC8EA5u-01035-00220235-00220373 you saw my LinkedIn profile you'll know
GKiwRC8EA5u-01036-00220373-00220517 who I was with but one of them I walked
GKiwRC8EA5u-01037-00220517-00220817 into it was discount Haven everywhere
GKiwRC8EA5u-01038-00220817-00221027 yeah they discounted everything and I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01039-00221028-00221206 walked in the door and I said why are we
GKiwRC8EA5u-01040-00221207-00221344 discounting and they said because that's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01041-00221346-00221591 how we get the deals done yeah and I I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01042-00221592-00221825 said well why are we giving away value
GKiwRC8EA5u-01043-00221826-00222101 for free you don't discount value you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01044-00222102-00222317 sell value you don't discount value and
GKiwRC8EA5u-01045-00222317-00222551 it took it took time to change the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01046-00222552-00222671 mentality of everybody in the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01047-00222671-00222869 organization to stop discounting value
GKiwRC8EA5u-01048-00222869-00223151 yeah I think every time I I hear that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01049-00223152-00223348 positioning which is correct I think the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01050-00223350-00223642 tough thing is the reality is defining
GKiwRC8EA5u-01051-00223644-00223865 the value and articulating it is hard
GKiwRC8EA5u-01052-00223866-00224153 not easy yes it's hard not easy and
GKiwRC8EA5u-01053-00224154-00224339 that's why we default to let's just give
GKiwRC8EA5u-01054-00224340-00224482 it away it's a hell of a lot easier to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01055-00224483-00224741 just give it away and not do do the hard
GKiwRC8EA5u-01056-00224742-00224963 work of pointing to the business value
GKiwRC8EA5u-01057-00224964-00225119 but that's what we have to do and again
GKiwRC8EA5u-01058-00225119-00225310 I we are in this inflection point where
GKiwRC8EA5u-01059-00225311-00225496 we have to get way better at that here's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01060-00225498-00225629 here's a really good one
GKiwRC8EA5u-01061-00225630-00225875 I love this one
GKiwRC8EA5u-01062-00225876-00226144 customers don't buy into digitized
GKiwRC8EA5u-01063-00226146-00226381 support they still want more human touch
GKiwRC8EA5u-01064-00226382-00226660 than anything
GKiwRC8EA5u-01065-00226661-00227039 I disagree the reason I disagree is I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01066-00227040-00227189 don't have my iPhone on me but if I were
GKiwRC8EA5u-01067-00227190-00227303 to hold it up
GKiwRC8EA5u-01068-00227304-00227548 my daughter's generation has always had
GKiwRC8EA5u-01069-00227550-00227825 an iPhone in the internet and they get
GKiwRC8EA5u-01070-00227826-00228023 what they need by you know using
GKiwRC8EA5u-01071-00228023-00228144 technology
GKiwRC8EA5u-01072-00228146-00228460 so I think that that's a that statement
GKiwRC8EA5u-01073-00228461-00228629 is a reflection on my generation Our
GKiwRC8EA5u-01074-00228630-00228791 Generation because we've always had
GKiwRC8EA5u-01075-00228792-00228965 human interaction and we're used to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01076-00228966-00229132 dealing with humans but today's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01077-00229133-00229319 generation that we're preparing to take
GKiwRC8EA5u-01078-00229319-00229577 the roles that we have they're used to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01079-00229578-00229810 just dealing with technology so some of
GKiwRC8EA5u-01080-00229811-00229937 them are very comfortable with just
GKiwRC8EA5u-01081-00229938-00230069 going hey if I can get what I need
GKiwRC8EA5u-01082-00230069-00230194 through digital engagement I don't need
GKiwRC8EA5u-01083-00230196-00230446 a human uh human engagement then you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01084-00230448-00230669 have another person personality that is
GKiwRC8EA5u-01085-00230669-00230873 the hybrid they want a little bit of
GKiwRC8EA5u-01086-00230873-00231005 digital and they want a little bit of
GKiwRC8EA5u-01087-00231006-00231179 human and I'll let you know when I want
GKiwRC8EA5u-01088-00231180-00231455 the human but to default and think that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01089-00231456-00231617 everybody wants a human engagement it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01090-00231617-00231832 the wrong it's the wrong thing yeah yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-01091-00231833-00231958 I'm gonna jump all of this one because
GKiwRC8EA5u-01092-00231959-00232253 for a couple different reasons and I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01093-00232254-00232427 talked about this morning I mean this
GKiwRC8EA5u-01094-00232428-00232667 this Digital customer success motion for
GKiwRC8EA5u-01095-00232667-00232937 large customers is a real thing and it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01096-00232938-00233098 a real thing for what you just said is
GKiwRC8EA5u-01097-00233100-00233363 that's actually some ways that or that a
GKiwRC8EA5u-01098-00233364-00233542 lot of people prefer digital
GKiwRC8EA5u-01099-00233544-00233741 interactions there's also a concept out
GKiwRC8EA5u-01100-00233742-00233982 there it's not mine it's Christopher um
GKiwRC8EA5u-01101-00233983-00234310 lockheads lockheeds around digital
GKiwRC8EA5u-01102-00234311-00234539 natives versus analog natives
GKiwRC8EA5u-01103-00234540-00234803 and digital natives prefer digital First
GKiwRC8EA5u-01104-00234804-00234989 full stop
GKiwRC8EA5u-01105-00234990-00235306 and I'm an analog native right but we're
GKiwRC8EA5u-01106-00235307-00235475 aging out of the workforce and
GKiwRC8EA5u-01107-00235476-00235625 eventually it is going to be dominated
GKiwRC8EA5u-01108-00235626-00235853 with people that are digital Natives and
GKiwRC8EA5u-01109-00235854-00236044 they are not going to want to call I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01110-00236046-00236267 mean I look at my son and I look at my
GKiwRC8EA5u-01111-00236267-00236339 daughter
GKiwRC8EA5u-01112-00236340-00236494 and why tell them well you should just
GKiwRC8EA5u-01113-00236496-00236705 call the company for that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01114-00236706-00236837 do you guys do that with your kids you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01115-00236838-00236975 see how they react I mean they're just
GKiwRC8EA5u-01116-00236976-00237298 like oh call I gotta what why can't why
GKiwRC8EA5u-01117-00237300-00237508 can't I do this why can't I go to the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01118-00237509-00237767 website they are digital natives
GKiwRC8EA5u-01119-00237767-00238013 so that generation is coming folks so I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01120-00238014-00238223 mean I just I don't buy into the you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01121-00238223-00238373 know that's still what customers want I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01122-00238373-00238582 think a lot of us in Services that's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01123-00238583-00238805 what we hope we wish that that's really
GKiwRC8EA5u-01124-00238806-00239051 going to always be the preferred model I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01125-00239052-00239296 I don't think so so this one is now the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01126-00239298-00239482 top of the list
GKiwRC8EA5u-01127-00239483-00239806 csat is an accurately exposing how our
GKiwRC8EA5u-01128-00239807-00240077 clients really feel
GKiwRC8EA5u-01129-00240078-00240263 you want to take a crack at that we are
GKiwRC8EA5u-01130-00240264-00240460 we already eviscerated MPS we want to go
GKiwRC8EA5u-01131-00240461-00240629 after csat
GKiwRC8EA5u-01132-00240630-00240929 well csat's actually on the rides it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01133-00240930-00241198 growing faster and customer effort
GKiwRC8EA5u-01134-00241200-00241577 scores compared to NPS so it is growing
GKiwRC8EA5u-01135-00241578-00241846 I think that the question sets are
GKiwRC8EA5u-01136-00241848-00242123 probably not not created correct
GKiwRC8EA5u-01137-00242123-00242369 correctly one of the things that's very
GKiwRC8EA5u-01138-00242369-00242627 real is survey fatigue
GKiwRC8EA5u-01139-00242628-00242813 a lot of organizations especially that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01140-00242814-00242981 we interact with in our adventure blocks
GKiwRC8EA5u-01141-00242982-00243082 because we have a voice of the customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-01142-00243083-00243341 or metrics advisor blog when we have
GKiwRC8EA5u-01143-00243342-00243581 them send over our their questions you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01144-00243582-00243725 know sometimes we'll get 20 and 30
GKiwRC8EA5u-01145-00243726-00243863 questions well
GKiwRC8EA5u-01146-00243864-00244006 you know there's a problem there I'm
GKiwRC8EA5u-01147-00244007-00244181 like when do they when to survey fatigue
GKiwRC8EA5u-01148-00244182-00244421 kick in we'll just stop around 10 or 12.
GKiwRC8EA5u-01149-00244421-00244631 well the reality is six or eight you got
GKiwRC8EA5u-01150-00244632-00244781 about six or eight really good questions
GKiwRC8EA5u-01151-00244782-00245056 and they don't get prioritized at the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01152-00245057-00245231 most critical Parts like what's the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01153-00245232-00245381 number one question out of the six that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01154-00245382-00245651 you want to ask so if they drop off that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01155-00245652-00245782 they're gonna you're gonna get what you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01156-00245783-00245944 need and that's a problem in the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01157-00245946-00246131 creation so when csat's getting created
GKiwRC8EA5u-01158-00246132-00246310 there's a lot of variables that aren't
GKiwRC8EA5u-01159-00246311-00246527 considered and as a result they're not
GKiwRC8EA5u-01160-00246528-00246677 seeing the results they'd like to see
GKiwRC8EA5u-01161-00246678-00246869 yeah I mean I'll take a crack at this
GKiwRC8EA5u-01162-00246869-00247121 and I'm not a csat fan you know I'm not
GKiwRC8EA5u-01163-00247121-00247337 and the reason I'm not
GKiwRC8EA5u-01164-00247338-00247660 is two reasons number one it's a it's a
GKiwRC8EA5u-01165-00247661-00247906 proxy metric it's a proxy I mean what
GKiwRC8EA5u-01166-00247907-00248063 what really matters did the customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-01167-00248064-00248267 renew are they spending more money with
GKiwRC8EA5u-01168-00248267-00248489 it that's the primary metric this is a
GKiwRC8EA5u-01169-00248490-00248639 proxy metric right and when you have
GKiwRC8EA5u-01170-00248640-00248801 organizations that are running around
GKiwRC8EA5u-01171-00248802-00249005 and they're like that's the primary
GKiwRC8EA5u-01172-00249006-00249244 metric that's all I hang my hat on is
GKiwRC8EA5u-01173-00249246-00249491 csat then I think you have your eye off
GKiwRC8EA5u-01174-00249492-00249694 the ball around the real business I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01175-00249696-00249827 deeply believe that that's number one
GKiwRC8EA5u-01176-00249828-00250181 number two is it's morphed again it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01177-00250182-00250379 morphed into this it is the end-all
GKiwRC8EA5u-01178-00250380-00250684 be-all what we Chase and I think do I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01179-00250685-00250853 think customer feedback is helpful
GKiwRC8EA5u-01180-00250854-00251046 absolutely
GKiwRC8EA5u-01181-00251048-00251267 well-structured surveys to say how are
GKiwRC8EA5u-01182-00251267-00251429 we doing absolutely but use it in
GKiwRC8EA5u-01183-00251430-00251663 context right another thing I was
GKiwRC8EA5u-01184-00251664-00251848 talking to an executive who was
GKiwRC8EA5u-01185-00251850-00252106 had the same world view I do on csat
GKiwRC8EA5u-01186-00252107-00252371 and they said look you know this is how
GKiwRC8EA5u-01187-00252371-00252581 cset Works in our in every company I've
GKiwRC8EA5u-01188-00252582-00252689 ever worked in
GKiwRC8EA5u-01189-00252690-00252958 see that's going up high fives we are
GKiwRC8EA5u-01190-00252959-00253253 awesome show that to the CEO awesome
GKiwRC8EA5u-01191-00253254-00253427 see that's going down
GKiwRC8EA5u-01192-00253428-00253606 it's going why is it going I don't know
GKiwRC8EA5u-01193-00253607-00253781 why the f is going down right it's going
GKiwRC8EA5u-01194-00253782-00253973 down well don't show that to the CEO
GKiwRC8EA5u-01195-00253973-00254206 right and so that's not helpful it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01196-00254207-00254398 poorly structured surveys and again just
GKiwRC8EA5u-01197-00254400-00254656 hanging your head on that I think your
GKiwRC8EA5u-01198-00254657-00254903 eyes off the bigger ball so those csat
GKiwRC8EA5u-01199-00254904-00255106 really should just be a validation of
GKiwRC8EA5u-01200-00255107-00255269 the Telemetry you're already collecting
GKiwRC8EA5u-01201-00255269-00255496 so if you're a signal it's a signal
GKiwRC8EA5u-01202-00255498-00255665 which is it's a signal and it's just
GKiwRC8EA5u-01203-00255666-00255821 about it should if you're using it it
GKiwRC8EA5u-01204-00255821-00255989 just should reinforce is the data I'm
GKiwRC8EA5u-01205-00255990-00256144 collecting that I've identified from my
GKiwRC8EA5u-01206-00256146-00256306 Telemetry is it telling me the whole
GKiwRC8EA5u-01207-00256307-00256606 story in a csat or an NPS is something
GKiwRC8EA5u-01208-00256607-00256823 that could supplement that yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-01209-00256823-00257027 all right here's this next one I'll take
GKiwRC8EA5u-01210-00257028-00257267 this one traditional CFOs within the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01211-00257267-00257429 organization and customer organization
GKiwRC8EA5u-01212-00257430-00257939 are not ready for as a service
GKiwRC8EA5u-01213-00257940-00258323 you think do you think yes they are not
GKiwRC8EA5u-01214-00258323-00258455 ready they are not ready for this I mean
GKiwRC8EA5u-01215-00258456-00258592 I can tell you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01216-00258594-00258846 um definitively and the challenge there
GKiwRC8EA5u-01217-00258848-00259289 uh consistently is that we have a
GKiwRC8EA5u-01218-00259290-00259582 generation of Technology leaders that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01219-00259583-00259780 grew up in the traditional models
GKiwRC8EA5u-01220-00259781-00260008 and they know really well they know
GKiwRC8EA5u-01221-00260009-00260242 products and you know the CFOs know the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01222-00260244-00260410 financials of that model the CEO
GKiwRC8EA5u-01223-00260411-00260548 understands that sales knows how to sell
GKiwRC8EA5u-01224-00260550-00260777 it I mean we are completely optimized
GKiwRC8EA5u-01225-00260778-00260963 for that world and then as the service
GKiwRC8EA5u-01226-00260964-00261071 shows up
GKiwRC8EA5u-01227-00261071-00261227 and they're like that is a completely
GKiwRC8EA5u-01228-00261228-00261389 different business model that you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-01229-00261390-00261839 and they they are not ready for it
GKiwRC8EA5u-01230-00261840-00262042 um I again I'm the case I'm making here
GKiwRC8EA5u-01231-00262044-00262175 at this conference is the current
GKiwRC8EA5u-01232-00262176-00262373 environment is going to force
GKiwRC8EA5u-01233-00262374-00262637 people to start you know leaning in and
GKiwRC8EA5u-01234-00262638-00262763 learning more and when I talk to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01235-00262764-00262979 Executive teams one thing I tell them if
GKiwRC8EA5u-01236-00262980-00263206 they're traditional company is everyone
GKiwRC8EA5u-01237-00263207-00263560 at this table CFO CEO Etc needs to get
GKiwRC8EA5u-01238-00263561-00263795 an MBA and as a service
GKiwRC8EA5u-01239-00263796-00263999 you need to start really understanding
GKiwRC8EA5u-01240-00264000-00264353 you know ARR and renewal and all this
GKiwRC8EA5u-01241-00264354-00264455 stuff it's a completely different
GKiwRC8EA5u-01242-00264456-00264706 language and depending on where they are
GKiwRC8EA5u-01243-00264707-00264821 in their career sometimes they don't
GKiwRC8EA5u-01244-00264822-00264953 really want to do that I'll be I'll be
GKiwRC8EA5u-01245-00264954-00265115 honest with you right so some of it we
GKiwRC8EA5u-01246-00265116-00265289 got to wait for a certain generation to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01247-00265290-00265451 age to age out
GKiwRC8EA5u-01248-00265452-00265619 the other thing and I was just in this
GKiwRC8EA5u-01249-00265620-00265858 conversation literally an hour ago
GKiwRC8EA5u-01250-00265859-00266027 traditional Hardware companies out there
GKiwRC8EA5u-01251-00266028-00266321 right is you start to think or start to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01252-00266322-00266513 get into more as a service specifically
GKiwRC8EA5u-01253-00266514-00266806 managed Services those margin profiles
GKiwRC8EA5u-01254-00266807-00267101 are different right in a CFO will look
GKiwRC8EA5u-01255-00267102-00267371 at that and say well I I don't want that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01256-00267372-00267575 business full stop I don't want that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01257-00267576-00267784 business but if that's where the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01258-00267785-00267934 Market's going and that's where the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01259-00267935-00268121 revenue growth is that's what customers
GKiwRC8EA5u-01260-00268122-00268301 are asking for they want it in a managed
GKiwRC8EA5u-01261-00268302-00268547 offer you don't get to make that choice
GKiwRC8EA5u-01262-00268548-00268721 and we still have a lot of executive
GKiwRC8EA5u-01263-00268722-00268882 teams that are doubling down on their
GKiwRC8EA5u-01264-00268883-00269165 traditional business models is if the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01265-00269166-00269380 market gives a
GKiwRC8EA5u-01266-00269381-00269584 they don't
GKiwRC8EA5u-01267-00269585-00269806 they don't so you know this is a big
GKiwRC8EA5u-01268-00269807-00270058 knot hole I totally agree with this you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01269-00270059-00270256 know observation it's very very real
GKiwRC8EA5u-01270-00270257-00270419 it's still going to take a little while
GKiwRC8EA5u-01271-00270420-00270749 to work out but you know again I have a
GKiwRC8EA5u-01272-00270750-00271108 deep belief that the economics forces
GKiwRC8EA5u-01273-00271109-00271289 everything that's what forces business
GKiwRC8EA5u-01274-00271290-00271541 that's what forces the Frog to jump
GKiwRC8EA5u-01275-00271542-00271751 you know is economics and we're you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-01276-00271752-00271865 they're getting Tighter and Tighter
GKiwRC8EA5u-01277-00271866-00272015 Thomas can I jump in on that yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-01278-00272016-00272219 absolutely to me the question that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01279-00272220-00272345 jumped into my mind when I heard that
GKiwRC8EA5u-01280-00272346-00272639 question is well yeah obviously a lot of
GKiwRC8EA5u-01281-00272640-00272782 a lot of senior leaders are not ready
GKiwRC8EA5u-01282-00272783-00272951 for this but what should that mean for
GKiwRC8EA5u-01283-00272952-00273113 the offering leader
GKiwRC8EA5u-01284-00273114-00273365 and I want to point back to Thomas's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01285-00273366-00273665 keynote earlier he showed several times
GKiwRC8EA5u-01286-00273666-00273880 an image that showed a before and after
GKiwRC8EA5u-01287-00273881-00274127 financial situation and he explained
GKiwRC8EA5u-01288-00274128-00274319 taking some of that Services cost to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01289-00274320-00274553 taking it below the line and moving some
GKiwRC8EA5u-01290-00274554-00274913 some sales cost into different groups
GKiwRC8EA5u-01291-00274914-00275158 go back and learn what Thomas was saying
GKiwRC8EA5u-01292-00275159-00275458 if you didn't pick that up learn how to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01293-00275459-00275717 read the 10ks learn how to argue why
GKiwRC8EA5u-01294-00275718-00275867 your margin is not going to be deluded
GKiwRC8EA5u-01295-00275868-00276113 by this thing that you're doing and why
GKiwRC8EA5u-01296-00276114-00276401 you need the basic MBA talk track to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01297-00276402-00276605 talk to the C Level if you want to be a
GKiwRC8EA5u-01298-00276606-00276779 successful offering manager you cannot
GKiwRC8EA5u-01299-00276780-00277019 bypass that capability if you need help
GKiwRC8EA5u-01300-00277020-00277187 with that there are so many resources
GKiwRC8EA5u-01301-00277188-00277360 available LinkedIn learning just to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01302-00277361-00277715 start there's so many programs we do MBA
GKiwRC8EA5u-01303-00277716-00277949 in a day types of advisory work where we
GKiwRC8EA5u-01304-00277950-00278189 spend like 30 minutes on calculating ARR
GKiwRC8EA5u-01305-00278190-00278375 and we need every minute of it
GKiwRC8EA5u-01306-00278376-00278627 so there the information is there grab
GKiwRC8EA5u-01307-00278628-00278849 it raise your strategic level as an
GKiwRC8EA5u-01308-00278850-00279005 offering manager start talking to the C
GKiwRC8EA5u-01309-00279006-00279208 Level and watch the value get unlocked
GKiwRC8EA5u-01310-00279209-00279467 they you can build credibility there but
GKiwRC8EA5u-01311-00279468-00279701 you have to talk that economically yeah
GKiwRC8EA5u-01312-00279702-00279889 you're making a fantastic point which is
GKiwRC8EA5u-01313-00279890-00280187 you know the CFO or the executive team
GKiwRC8EA5u-01314-00280188-00280408 isn't speaking this yet they don't have
GKiwRC8EA5u-01315-00280409-00280619 their MBA and as a service you get your
GKiwRC8EA5u-01316-00280620-00280847 MBA in as a service yes so that you can
GKiwRC8EA5u-01317-00280848-00281015 have that intelligent conversation I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01318-00281016-00281206 think that's super these questions are
GKiwRC8EA5u-01319-00281207-00281380 so good I want to do all of them run out
GKiwRC8EA5u-01320-00281381-00281543 of time here I want to get at least the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01321-00281544-00281884 two more okay personally is it essential
GKiwRC8EA5u-01322-00281885-00282155 to incentivize sales for them to sell
GKiwRC8EA5u-01323-00282156-00282293 services so I'm going to turn to the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01324-00282294-00282497 most coin operated function in the in
GKiwRC8EA5u-01325-00282498-00282839 the company here who incentivize sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-01326-00282840-00282982 hey buddy if they actually want them to
GKiwRC8EA5u-01327-00282983-00283132 sell services
GKiwRC8EA5u-01328-00283133-00283295 okay
GKiwRC8EA5u-01329-00283296-00283534 I've seen it done both ways you know I I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01330-00283535-00283895 just look I made my I made my last
GKiwRC8EA5u-01331-00283896-00284039 um group when I was in my breakout
GKiwRC8EA5u-01332-00284040-00284195 session say it with me but I won't make
GKiwRC8EA5u-01333-00284196-00284351 you guys like the comp plan is not
GKiwRC8EA5u-01334-00284352-00284506 transformational
GKiwRC8EA5u-01335-00284507-00284758 okay and and everybody seems to think
GKiwRC8EA5u-01336-00284759-00284951 that you can solve every problem ever
GKiwRC8EA5u-01337-00284952-00285113 known to mankind and their their their
GKiwRC8EA5u-01338-00285114-00285341 business as a service technology cars I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01339-00285342-00285484 don't care if we just change the comp
GKiwRC8EA5u-01340-00285485-00285701 plan well then they'll sell services
GKiwRC8EA5u-01341-00285702-00286145 okay but let's let's talk about why we
GKiwRC8EA5u-01342-00286146-00286337 don't sell services for a minute all
GKiwRC8EA5u-01343-00286338-00286565 right um do we understand the value and
GKiwRC8EA5u-01344-00286566-00286810 is your value clearly articulated well I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01345-00286811-00286960 don't know okay well then they're going
GKiwRC8EA5u-01346-00286961-00287075 to give it away right it doesn't matter
GKiwRC8EA5u-01347-00287076-00287279 where you incentivize it you can you can
GKiwRC8EA5u-01348-00287280-00287501 put that that value on them if it's too
GKiwRC8EA5u-01349-00287502-00287717 hard too confusing you know I hear uh
GKiwRC8EA5u-01350-00287718-00287969 well sales complains that we slow down
GKiwRC8EA5u-01351-00287970-00288197 their deals okay we'll do you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01352-00288198-00288382 do you slow them down because they can't
GKiwRC8EA5u-01353-00288383-00288713 wait man average tenure of a VP of sales
GKiwRC8EA5u-01354-00288714-00288917 in an asset Service Company is 19 months
GKiwRC8EA5u-01355-00288918-00289055 it's like a World War One artillery
GKiwRC8EA5u-01356-00289056-00289277 officer okay like
GKiwRC8EA5u-01357-00289278-00289499 then they can't slow down man they can't
GKiwRC8EA5u-01358-00289500-00289853 wait so like you know I I say do they
GKiwRC8EA5u-01359-00289854-00289991 need to be incentivized I don't know
GKiwRC8EA5u-01360-00289992-00290345 give them good Services I hear my my
GKiwRC8EA5u-01361-00290346-00290513 sales team knows how to sell products
GKiwRC8EA5u-01362-00290514-00290705 not Services well okay make your
GKiwRC8EA5u-01363-00290706-00290891 services look more like products
GKiwRC8EA5u-01364-00290892-00291149 all right so this isn't just on them and
GKiwRC8EA5u-01365-00291150-00291395 you will not solve all problems with the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01366-00291396-00291634 comp plan yeah I completely on board
GKiwRC8EA5u-01367-00291635-00291767 that and here's what I think the
GKiwRC8EA5u-01368-00291768-00291910 trifecta is and this is a great question
GKiwRC8EA5u-01369-00291911-00292030 right because you're not going to solve
GKiwRC8EA5u-01370-00292031-00292139 everything through the comp plan but
GKiwRC8EA5u-01371-00292140-00292427 it's a component I think the trifecta is
GKiwRC8EA5u-01372-00292428-00292625 you have well-defined offers
GKiwRC8EA5u-01373-00292626-00292732 right
GKiwRC8EA5u-01374-00292733-00292973 you have good policy like we're talking
GKiwRC8EA5u-01375-00292974-00293117 about hey why'd this still go through
GKiwRC8EA5u-01376-00293118-00293225 and you didn't attach the services
GKiwRC8EA5u-01377-00293226-00293482 there's got to be a check there and
GKiwRC8EA5u-01378-00293483-00293639 sales does haven't said there should be
GKiwRC8EA5u-01379-00293640-00293777 some incentive there like not saying
GKiwRC8EA5u-01380-00293778-00293921 there shouldn't be obviously right but
GKiwRC8EA5u-01381-00293922-00294221 but the comp plan reinforces the right
GKiwRC8EA5u-01382-00294222-00294563 behaviors but ultimately you know
GKiwRC8EA5u-01383-00294564-00294815 you have to help them justify the value
GKiwRC8EA5u-01384-00294816-00295049 and you have to be part of their journey
GKiwRC8EA5u-01385-00295050-00295337 and not just say go sell services and it
GKiwRC8EA5u-01386-00295338-00295606 it it it's it's a team effort here
GKiwRC8EA5u-01387-00295607-00295793 seriously yeah no but your your point
GKiwRC8EA5u-01388-00295794-00295925 that the comp plan does not solve
GKiwRC8EA5u-01389-00295926-00296032 everything is important but it's all
GKiwRC8EA5u-01390-00296033-00296206 everything I think is spot on I wish I
GKiwRC8EA5u-01391-00296207-00296345 could get to these other ones but my
GKiwRC8EA5u-01392-00296346-00296489 clock is ticking here
GKiwRC8EA5u-01393-00296490-00296621 um this is a killer conversation I'm
GKiwRC8EA5u-01394-00296622-00296927 going to do one update here uh for those
GKiwRC8EA5u-01395-00296928-00297089 of you that aren't aware we just
GKiwRC8EA5u-01396-00297090-00297227 launched this thing called research
GKiwRC8EA5u-01397-00297228-00297425 Journeys I mentioned the survey I'm
GKiwRC8EA5u-01398-00297426-00297593 doing on the financial model of SAS it's
GKiwRC8EA5u-01399-00297594-00297917 part of that go check this out we have
GKiwRC8EA5u-01400-00297918-00298271 one on monetizing so uh scaling customer
GKiwRC8EA5u-01401-00298272-00298480 success is live through May 19th so
GKiwRC8EA5u-01402-00298481-00298805 please get with your MSM get the link
GKiwRC8EA5u-01403-00298806-00299003 through May 19th that's going to wrap up
GKiwRC8EA5u-01404-00299004-00299171 that one and then in June we start
GKiwRC8EA5u-01405-00299172-00299351 monetizing customer success three-part
GKiwRC8EA5u-01406-00299352-00299573 Series yeah yeah so so we have I think
GKiwRC8EA5u-01407-00299574-00299665 four different
GKiwRC8EA5u-01408-00299666-00299855 tracks going on one of them is
GKiwRC8EA5u-01409-00299856-00300149 profitable as a service in SAS it's just
GKiwRC8EA5u-01410-00300150-00300310 a way for you to participate as we
GKiwRC8EA5u-01411-00300311-00300515 continue to mature our insights on this
GKiwRC8EA5u-01412-00300516-00300706 so it's design so we can all learn from
GKiwRC8EA5u-01413-00300707-00300947 each other so uh John that is our
GKiwRC8EA5u-01414-00300948-00301049 session thank you so much for
GKiwRC8EA5u-01415-00301050-00301205 participating thank you enjoy the rest
GKiwRC8EA5u-01416-00301206-00301337 of the conference I'm sure we'll see you
GKiwRC8EA5u-01417-00301338-00301556 here
GN4qtyMMKYu-00000-00000032-00000302 it's our favorite time of the year yes
GN4qtyMMKYu-00001-00000303-00000497 it's football season the sounds of the
GN4qtyMMKYu-00002-00000498-00000751 bands cheers of the fans the better on
GN4qtyMMKYu-00003-00000752-00000964 the gridiron and most importantly
GN4qtyMMKYu-00004-00000965-00001331 tailgating eating and drinking just play
GN4qtyMMKYu-00005-00001332-00001549 his team Yoji and just having a good
GN4qtyMMKYu-00006-00001550-00001793 time or signs of a successful tailgating
GN4qtyMMKYu-00007-00001794-00002059 regardless if you're at home or at the
GN4qtyMMKYu-00008-00002060-00002372 game did you know you can get food
GN4qtyMMKYu-00009-00002373-00002570 poisoning by not falling proper food
GN4qtyMMKYu-00010-00002571-00002831 safety practices according to the Center
GN4qtyMMKYu-00011-00002832-00003029 for Disease Control every year
GN4qtyMMKYu-00012-00003030-00003281 approximately 1 in 6 Americans or 48
GN4qtyMMKYu-00013-00003282-00003431 million people get sick from eating
GN4qtyMMKYu-00014-00003432-00003893 contaminated food it is estimated at 128
GN4qtyMMKYu-00015-00003894-00004109 thousand people are hospitalized and
GN4qtyMMKYu-00016-00004110-00004424 three thousand people die every year but
GN4qtyMMKYu-00017-00004425-00004676 don't worry there is a winning game plan
GN4qtyMMKYu-00018-00004677-00004945 for a safe and successful tailgating
GN4qtyMMKYu-00019-00004946-00005345 season so get ready to gear up and team
GN4qtyMMKYu-00020-00005346-00005567 up to talk a food safety by the
GN4qtyMMKYu-00021-00005568-00005911 following four simple plays the first
GN4qtyMMKYu-00022-00005912-00006605 play is clean wash your hands for 20
GN4qtyMMKYu-00023-00006606-00007027 seconds with warm soap and water before
GN4qtyMMKYu-00024-00007028-00007345 during and after preparing food and
GN4qtyMMKYu-00025-00007347-00007684 before eating if water is not available
GN4qtyMMKYu-00026-00007686-00007996 at the tailgating site bring water for
GN4qtyMMKYu-00027-00007997-00008434 hand washing and cleaning Pat clean wet
GN4qtyMMKYu-00028-00008435-00008795 disposable cloth or moist towelettes and
GN4qtyMMKYu-00029-00008796-00009020 paper towels for cleaning your hands and
GN4qtyMMKYu-00030-00009021-00009356 surfaces wash your utensils cutting
GN4qtyMMKYu-00031-00009357-00009626 boards and countertops with hot soapy
GN4qtyMMKYu-00032-00009627-00010028 water store your utensils in a clean
GN4qtyMMKYu-00033-00010029-00010267 container to take with you and use
GN4qtyMMKYu-00034-00010268-00010574 during your tailgate rinse fresh fruits
GN4qtyMMKYu-00035-00010575-00011053 and vegetables under running water okay
GN4qtyMMKYu-00036-00011054-00011299 here's the huge question is it safe to
GN4qtyMMKYu-00037-00011300-00011606 wash meat before cooking that's the
GN4qtyMMKYu-00038-00011607-00011860 million dollar question according to the
GN4qtyMMKYu-00039-00011861-00011953 CDC
GN4qtyMMKYu-00040-00011954-00012292 you should not wash raw poultry seafood
GN4qtyMMKYu-00041-00012293-00012608 and other meat before cooking it even
GN4qtyMMKYu-00042-00012609-00012821 though some older recipes may call for
GN4qtyMMKYu-00043-00012822-00013630 this step washing chicken would not
GN4qtyMMKYu-00044-00013631-00013888 remove the harmful germs and bacteria
GN4qtyMMKYu-00045-00013890-00014174 that may be present instead it only
GN4qtyMMKYu-00046-00014175-00014552 spreads bacteria to other foods utensils
GN4qtyMMKYu-00047-00014553-00014897 and surfaces and most importantly it
GN4qtyMMKYu-00048-00014897-00015241 does not prevent illness that leads us
GN4qtyMMKYu-00049-00015243-00015486 to our next play the second play is
GN4qtyMMKYu-00050-00015487-00016241 separated we're all poultry seafood and
GN4qtyMMKYu-00051-00016241-00016547 other meat can spread germs to
GN4qtyMMKYu-00052-00016548-00016667 ready-to-eat foods
GN4qtyMMKYu-00053-00016668-00016897 unless you keep them separate use
GN4qtyMMKYu-00054-00016898-00017192 separate plates utensils and cutting
GN4qtyMMKYu-00055-00017193-00017497 boards for raw meat poultry and seafood
GN4qtyMMKYu-00056-00017498-00017852 keep raw meat poultry seafood and their
GN4qtyMMKYu-00057-00017853-00018208 juices away from other foods the third
GN4qtyMMKYu-00058-00018209-00019072 play is could use a food thermometer to
GN4qtyMMKYu-00059-00019073-00019247 ensure foods are cooked to a safe
GN4qtyMMKYu-00060-00019248-00019577 internal temperature food is safely
GN4qtyMMKYu-00061-00019578-00019763 cooked when the internal temperature
GN4qtyMMKYu-00062-00019764-00020075 gets high enough to kill germs they can
GN4qtyMMKYu-00063-00020076-00020375 make you sick the only way to tell if
GN4qtyMMKYu-00064-00020376-00020644 food is safely cooked it's to use a food
GN4qtyMMKYu-00065-00020645-00020875 thermometer you can't tell if food is
GN4qtyMMKYu-00066-00020876-00021133 safely cooked by checking its color and
GN4qtyMMKYu-00067-00021134-00021350 texture do you remember when we
GN4qtyMMKYu-00068-00021351-00021614 discussed washing chicken it only
GN4qtyMMKYu-00069-00021615-00021850 creates a bigger problem that what you
GN4qtyMMKYu-00070-00021851-00022043 were trying to solve cooking poultry
GN4qtyMMKYu-00071-00022044-00022297 seafood and other meat to a safe
GN4qtyMMKYu-00072-00022298-00022489 internal temperature is the best way to
GN4qtyMMKYu-00073-00022490-00022841 kill harmful germs and bacteria so what
GN4qtyMMKYu-00074-00022842-00023014 internal temperature should poultry be
GN4qtyMMKYu-00075-00023015-00023342 cooked it's recommended that chicken is
GN4qtyMMKYu-00076-00023343-00023657 cooked to 165 degrees you can find
GN4qtyMMKYu-00077-00023658-00023867 recommended temperatures for chicken and
GN4qtyMMKYu-00078-00023868-00024936 other meats by visiting WWE good
GN4qtyMMKYu-00079-00024937-00025210 marinades are often used during grilling
GN4qtyMMKYu-00080-00025211-00025489 for flavor don't reuse the marinade from
GN4qtyMMKYu-00081-00025490-00025847 the raw meat or poultry on cook food
GN4qtyMMKYu-00082-00025848-00026178 reserve a portion of the marinade before
GN4qtyMMKYu-00083-00026179-00026524 using it to marinade cooked meat the
GN4qtyMMKYu-00084-00026525-00027658 fourth and the final place is never
GN4qtyMMKYu-00085-00027658-00027858 leave Paris with food out for more than
GN4qtyMMKYu-00086-00027860-00028132 two hours bacteria can multiply rapidly
GN4qtyMMKYu-00087-00028133-00028437 if left at room temperature or in danger
GN4qtyMMKYu-00088-00028438-00028687 zone between 40 and 140 degrees
GN4qtyMMKYu-00089-00028688-00028999 Fahrenheit you're outside and it's
GN4qtyMMKYu-00090-00029000-00029185 harder than 90 degrees Fahrenheit you
GN4qtyMMKYu-00091-00029186-00029443 shouldn't leave Paris for food out for
GN4qtyMMKYu-00092-00029444-00029749 more than one hour use an insulated
GN4qtyMMKYu-00093-00029750-00030039 cooler pack with ice or frozen gel packs
GN4qtyMMKYu-00094-00030041-00030202 to carry and store cold
GN4qtyMMKYu-00095-00030202-00030537 pairs of foods and that's it by
GN4qtyMMKYu-00096-00030538-00030756 following these four plays clean
GN4qtyMMKYu-00097-00030757-00031111 separate cook and chill you will have a
GN4qtyMMKYu-00098-00031112-00031444 winning and safe tailgate season I don't
GN4qtyMMKYu-00099-00031445-00031633 know about you but I'm ready to get back
GN4qtyMMKYu-00100-00031633-00031789 to this tailgating me too
GN4qtyMMKYu-00101-00031789-00033681 let's go Bulldogs happy tailgating
GN4qtyMMKYu-00102-00033682-00033967 the previous was brought to you by the
GN4qtyMMKYu-00103-00033968-00034240 urban supplemental nutrition education
GN4qtyMMKYu-00104-00034241-00034516 program the you snap IDI program makes
GN4qtyMMKYu-00105-00034517-00035056 nutrition easy tasty and affordable to
GN4qtyMMKYu-00106-00035057-00035227 learn more about the urban snap ed
GN4qtyMMKYu-00107-00035228-00035545 program visit WIC
GN4qtyMMKYu-00108-00035546-00036157 s edu slash urban snap Edie you can also
GN4qtyMMKYu-00109-00036158-00036352 visit the you snap ed program on
GN4qtyMMKYu-00110-00036353-00037064 Facebook
GN4qtyMMKYu-00111-00037065-00037097 you
GN4qtyMMKYu-00112-00037098-00037406 [Music]
GOlLI337BBM-00001-00003785-00005880 [Music]
GOlLI337BBM-00002-00005881-00007156 [Music]
GOlLI337BBM-00003-00007158-00007258 you
GOlLI337BBM-00004-00007259-00007655 [Music]
GOrrHcg7UdU-00000-00001320-00001423 okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00001-00001424-00001782 let's try to start uh this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00002-00001784-00001959 community meeting the first community
GOrrHcg7UdU-00003-00001960-00002287 meeting of 2021
GOrrHcg7UdU-00004-00002288-00002671 um i am monterey i'm
GOrrHcg7UdU-00005-00002672-00002926 one of the coordinators of the of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00006-00002927-00002999 project and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00007-00003000-00003183 one of the co-founders of the of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00008-00003184-00003543 deciding and i just want to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00009-00003544-00003831 just to say welcome to everyone to this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00010-00003832-00003990 session to explain you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00011-00003992-00004375 why we decide to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00012-00004376-00004670 to have again our community meetings and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00013-00004671-00004751 why
GOrrHcg7UdU-00014-00004752-00005151 it was a good moment to yeah to start to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00015-00005152-00005486 uh to meet to discuss to to share
GOrrHcg7UdU-00016-00005487-00005886 ideas to to share plans and to share
GOrrHcg7UdU-00017-00005887-00006191 the things that are happening around the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00018-00006192-00006606 the project and the platform um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00019-00006608-00006998 this is just the the the first community
GOrrHcg7UdU-00020-00007000-00007327 meeting of 2021 but our plan is to have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00021-00007328-00007646 each month as minimum one one one
GOrrHcg7UdU-00022-00007647-00007887 meeting one digital meeting
GOrrHcg7UdU-00023-00007888-00008246 uh but also we're gonna have other uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00024-00008247-00008623 events here uh in barcelona and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00025-00008624-00008871 we invite also the international
GOrrHcg7UdU-00026-00008872-00009014 community to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00027-00009015-00009303 organize their own uh events uh to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00028-00009304-00009487 discuss about the topics that we are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00029-00009488-00009574 working on the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00030-00009575-00010087 on the project um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00031-00010088-00010551 just uh to say thank you to be here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00032-00010552-00010895 we have uh on the we have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00033-00010896-00011238 two hours session more or less and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00034-00011239-00011559 again carol i will explain you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00035-00011560-00011863 uh after me why we are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00036-00011864-00012142 opening today this debate and how it
GOrrHcg7UdU-00037-00012143-00012255 going towards
GOrrHcg7UdU-00038-00012256-00012631 the session uh and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00039-00012632-00012902 uh yes after that maybe we're gonna have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00040-00012903-00013022 time to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00041-00013023-00013366 to yes to solve and discuss other
GOrrHcg7UdU-00042-00013368-00013630 uh aspects thank you to be here and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00043-00013631-00013751 let's go
GOrrHcg7UdU-00044-00013752-00014079 with this first meeting carol the floor
GOrrHcg7UdU-00045-00014080-00014438 is yours okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00046-00014440-00014679 thanks very much and now for the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00047-00014680-00014807 introduction
GOrrHcg7UdU-00048-00014808-00015143 and hello everyone and welcome
GOrrHcg7UdU-00049-00015144-00015430 my name is carol romero i'm part of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00050-00015431-00015655 product team of the cdm
GOrrHcg7UdU-00051-00015656-00015975 and before we start presenting the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00052-00015976-00016222 design proposals that we're going to see
GOrrHcg7UdU-00053-00016223-00016422 in this session today
GOrrHcg7UdU-00054-00016423-00016735 i wanted to give you briefly some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00055-00016736-00016815 context
GOrrHcg7UdU-00056-00016816-00017150 on how we got here and why we need
GOrrHcg7UdU-00057-00017151-00017439 to start rethinking the platform uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00058-00017440-00017615 interface right
GOrrHcg7UdU-00059-00017616-00017927 um so as most of you will know
GOrrHcg7UdU-00060-00017928-00018247 the swing was born four years ago
GOrrHcg7UdU-00061-00018248-00018575 and since then we haven't stopped
GOrrHcg7UdU-00062-00018576-00018822 developing and adding new features to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00063-00018823-00018943 the software
GOrrHcg7UdU-00064-00018944-00019311 and this is part uh intended because
GOrrHcg7UdU-00065-00019312-00019686 we try to stay in a cycle of continuous
GOrrHcg7UdU-00066-00019687-00019830 improvement
GOrrHcg7UdU-00067-00019831-00020175 and but i think it's worth
GOrrHcg7UdU-00068-00020176-00020463 mentioning two important factors that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00069-00020464-00020686 affect this situation
GOrrHcg7UdU-00070-00020687-00020927 the first one is that as you know the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00071-00020928-00021191 city means a community driven project
GOrrHcg7UdU-00072-00021192-00021230 and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00073-00021231-00021599 since the platform is spreading happily
GOrrHcg7UdU-00074-00021600-00021878 all over the world more and more we are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00075-00021879-00022086 getting more and more contributions
GOrrHcg7UdU-00076-00022087-00022447 also from a lot of different people
GOrrHcg7UdU-00077-00022448-00022750 and the other key factor is that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00078-00022751-00023086 we don't have at the moment an in-house
GOrrHcg7UdU-00079-00023087-00023527 development and design team we never had
GOrrHcg7UdU-00080-00023528-00023855 and we expect to start having one
GOrrHcg7UdU-00081-00023856-00024175 finally this year thanks to the deciding
GOrrHcg7UdU-00082-00024176-00024263 association
GOrrHcg7UdU-00083-00024264-00024558 we just signed an agreement just one
GOrrHcg7UdU-00084-00024559-00024663 month ago
GOrrHcg7UdU-00085-00024664-00024958 and we expect to receive some funds the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00086-00024959-00025135 first funds for the association that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00087-00025136-00025286 will allow us to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00088-00025287-00025599 hire some people but you can imagine
GOrrHcg7UdU-00089-00025600-00025846 that with this combination of factors
GOrrHcg7UdU-00090-00025847-00026150 uh it's easy to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00091-00026151-00026487 have more and more inconsistencies
GOrrHcg7UdU-00092-00026488-00026735 in the user interface because we don't
GOrrHcg7UdU-00093-00026736-00026814 have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00094-00026816-00027095 someone dedicated to have this global
GOrrHcg7UdU-00095-00027095-00027327 vision of the design of the platform
GOrrHcg7UdU-00096-00027327-00027639 someone that can write a style guide for
GOrrHcg7UdU-00097-00027639-00027807 new contributors
GOrrHcg7UdU-00098-00027808-00028351 someone to maintain even a design system
GOrrHcg7UdU-00099-00028352-00028670 so until we have this stable team we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00100-00028672-00028902 need to do our best with the resources
GOrrHcg7UdU-00101-00028904-00028967 we have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00102-00028968-00029246 which are mainly the contracts through
GOrrHcg7UdU-00103-00029247-00029487 the city of barcelona
GOrrHcg7UdU-00104-00029488-00029807 and we are expecting that by the end of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00105-00029808-00029879 the year
GOrrHcg7UdU-00106-00029880-00030070 we'll be able through one of these
GOrrHcg7UdU-00107-00030072-00030255 contracts to start
GOrrHcg7UdU-00108-00030256-00030479 this redesign process with a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00109-00030480-00030590 professional team
GOrrHcg7UdU-00110-00030591-00030927 right but uh until we get there
GOrrHcg7UdU-00111-00030927-00031127 we wanted to already explore some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00112-00031127-00031311 possibilities and also start the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00113-00031312-00031399 conversation
GOrrHcg7UdU-00114-00031400-00031774 with the whole community so we contacted
GOrrHcg7UdU-00115-00031775-00032135 javier soviera who is one of the senior
GOrrHcg7UdU-00116-00032136-00032231 designers
GOrrHcg7UdU-00117-00032232-00032543 who have been involved in the project
GOrrHcg7UdU-00118-00032544-00032783 from the beginning as external
GOrrHcg7UdU-00119-00032784-00032918 collaborator
GOrrHcg7UdU-00120-00032919-00033183 and we asked him the same question that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00121-00033184-00033367 we are asking ourselves today
GOrrHcg7UdU-00122-00033368-00033639 which is how do you envision a new
GOrrHcg7UdU-00123-00033640-00033702 design
GOrrHcg7UdU-00124-00033703-00034079 for the city and of course we needed to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00125-00034080-00034335 narrow down this question a little bit
GOrrHcg7UdU-00126-00034336-00034399 because
GOrrHcg7UdU-00127-00034400-00034687 he didn't have the whole resources to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00128-00034688-00034935 rethink the whole platform
GOrrHcg7UdU-00129-00034936-00035239 so we focused in
GOrrHcg7UdU-00130-00035240-00035551 some specific views of the platform that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00131-00035552-00035671 we know for sure
GOrrHcg7UdU-00132-00035672-00035943 that need some improvement okay we need
GOrrHcg7UdU-00133-00035944-00036167 there are much more
GOrrHcg7UdU-00134-00036168-00036487 but i would ask you that during the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00135-00036488-00036767 session today we all try to focus on the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00136-00036768-00036943 proposals we're going to see
GOrrHcg7UdU-00137-00036944-00037167 just to try to have a more order
GOrrHcg7UdU-00138-00037168-00037430 conversation and we will have i promise
GOrrHcg7UdU-00139-00037431-00037727 plenty of time to discuss different
GOrrHcg7UdU-00140-00037728-00037839 aspects of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00141-00037840-00038183 design of the platform okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00142-00038184-00038502 i think i'm not forgetting anything
GOrrHcg7UdU-00143-00038503-00038718 important i'm going to let
GOrrHcg7UdU-00144-00038719-00039023 javier now to present the design
GOrrHcg7UdU-00145-00039024-00039343 proposals and when he finishes
GOrrHcg7UdU-00146-00039344-00039630 i'll explain briefly how we're going to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00147-00039631-00039879 work the dynamics
GOrrHcg7UdU-00148-00039880-00040239 of working in in groups today
GOrrHcg7UdU-00149-00040240-00040559 okay so javier if you are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00150-00040560-00041111 around here whenever you want
GOrrHcg7UdU-00151-00041112-00041630 joining okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00152-00041631-00042239 so can you hear me well hope so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00153-00042240-00042551 so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00154-00042552-00043483 let me see here i'm going to share my
GOrrHcg7UdU-00155-00043484-00043679 screen
GOrrHcg7UdU-00156-00043680-00044207 okay let's start
GOrrHcg7UdU-00157-00044208-00044695 so hi everyone
GOrrHcg7UdU-00158-00044696-00044999 my name is javier and as karol said
GOrrHcg7UdU-00159-00045000-00045351 i'm i'm a senior uh designer and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00160-00045352-00045543 front-end developer
GOrrHcg7UdU-00161-00045544-00045767 that i've been in and out in in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00162-00045768-00045862 decision
GOrrHcg7UdU-00163-00045863-00046127 more or less since the beginning so i've
GOrrHcg7UdU-00164-00046128-00046343 i haven't been working continuously in
GOrrHcg7UdU-00165-00046344-00046455 the project
GOrrHcg7UdU-00166-00046456-00046799 but i was there in the beginning
GOrrHcg7UdU-00167-00046800-00047055 so maybe some of the problems that you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00168-00047056-00047302 are facing today with the platform
GOrrHcg7UdU-00169-00047303-00047662 are part of my fault so sorry about that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00170-00047663-00048007 let's try to fix this so as you can see
GOrrHcg7UdU-00171-00048008-00048095 it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-00172-00048096-00048343 i'm not calling this a real time but the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00173-00048344-00048686 railing proposal you will see why
GOrrHcg7UdU-00174-00048687-00049023 maybe it's starting
GOrrHcg7UdU-00175-00049024-00049351 so as mentioned before
GOrrHcg7UdU-00176-00049352-00049679 uh well the scene has has been developed
GOrrHcg7UdU-00177-00049680-00049862 by different teams in different projects
GOrrHcg7UdU-00178-00049863-00050030 during different stages
GOrrHcg7UdU-00179-00050031-00050502 and it has grown widely exponentially
GOrrHcg7UdU-00180-00050503-00050774 and some of the design solutions that we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00181-00050775-00050990 worked out in the beginning they don't
GOrrHcg7UdU-00182-00050991-00051102 work anymore
GOrrHcg7UdU-00183-00051103-00051407 because the platform has changed has
GOrrHcg7UdU-00184-00051408-00051719 new uh meanings and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00185-00051720-00052079 well it needs to rethink
GOrrHcg7UdU-00186-00052079-00052390 the basically the user interface how we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00187-00052391-00052630 plan or this user experience how we plan
GOrrHcg7UdU-00188-00052632-00052679 how we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00189-00052679-00053094 how we present uh this this platform to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00190-00053095-00053271 our users
GOrrHcg7UdU-00191-00053272-00053591 so this is a proposal of how to start to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00192-00053591-00053926 fix this so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00193-00053927-00054350 uh i was hired to to do a small
GOrrHcg7UdU-00194-00054351-00054671 project small a small design proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00195-00054672-00054911 and this project followed this the steps
GOrrHcg7UdU-00196-00054912-00054991 first i
GOrrHcg7UdU-00197-00054991-00055311 created an interface inventory
GOrrHcg7UdU-00198-00055312-00055694 this is take screenshots of lots of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00199-00055695-00055950 elements of interface elements of the of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00200-00055951-00056215 different instances of destiny
GOrrHcg7UdU-00201-00056216-00056566 i will know i will not not show you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00202-00056567-00056950 uh the whole interface inventory just
GOrrHcg7UdU-00203-00056951-00057111 some highlights that i think are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00204-00057112-00057487 are interesting uh then
GOrrHcg7UdU-00205-00057488-00057726 together with the deciding board we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00206-00057727-00057830 identified and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00207-00057832-00058159 analyzed the user interface problems
GOrrHcg7UdU-00208-00058160-00058519 and we choose we chose some key pages
GOrrHcg7UdU-00209-00058520-00058847 and decided to restyle some of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00210-00058848-00059007 interface elements so this is not a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00211-00059008-00059191 proposal of the whole
GOrrHcg7UdU-00212-00059191-00059526 uh the same interface this is a proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00213-00059527-00059615 for
GOrrHcg7UdU-00214-00059616-00059935 some of the elements and maybe
GOrrHcg7UdU-00215-00059936-00060303 this might be a starting point of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00216-00060304-00060623 something bigger so finally
GOrrHcg7UdU-00217-00060624-00060830 i built an html prototype to validate
GOrrHcg7UdU-00218-00060832-00061030 the proposal and this is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00219-00061032-00061526 uh where where we are right now
GOrrHcg7UdU-00220-00061527-00061711 so regarding the interface inventory as
GOrrHcg7UdU-00221-00061712-00061903 i said it's basically
GOrrHcg7UdU-00222-00061904-00062287 a scrolling for pages and pages of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00223-00062288-00062366 different
GOrrHcg7UdU-00224-00062367-00062703 deciding instances different different
GOrrHcg7UdU-00225-00062704-00062982 decision installations and finding
GOrrHcg7UdU-00226-00062983-00063094 elements
GOrrHcg7UdU-00227-00063095-00063415 uh how they are they are or ungroup them
GOrrHcg7UdU-00228-00063416-00063542 by categories and so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00229-00063544-00063726 as you can see there are some some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00230-00063727-00063887 buttons here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00231-00063888-00064230 different uh button applications and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00232-00064232-00064542 even you will probably find some of them
GOrrHcg7UdU-00233-00064544-00064638 that are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00234-00064639-00065047 not exactly the the way they should be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00235-00065048-00065391 some of them uh get
GOrrHcg7UdU-00236-00065391-00065679 in the in there in the bottom area you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00237-00065680-00065847 will see
GOrrHcg7UdU-00238-00065848-00066206 a button that lacks some left padding
GOrrHcg7UdU-00239-00066207-00066335 and so on but
GOrrHcg7UdU-00240-00066336-00066679 it also it basically allows us to find
GOrrHcg7UdU-00241-00066680-00066926 uh some inconsistencies some potential
GOrrHcg7UdU-00242-00066927-00067071 problems and so on so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00243-00067072-00067406 again these are some buttons
GOrrHcg7UdU-00244-00067407-00067775 are also elements like the the hero
GOrrHcg7UdU-00245-00067776-00068159 hero blocks and and banners
GOrrHcg7UdU-00246-00068160-00068526 and the sim has a tendency to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00247-00068527-00068823 well it basically has a design solution
GOrrHcg7UdU-00248-00068824-00068903 that is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00249-00068904-00069206 is putting a text on top of images
GOrrHcg7UdU-00250-00069207-00069615 and this gets uh gets
GOrrHcg7UdU-00251-00069616-00069847 a contrast problem usually so we need
GOrrHcg7UdU-00252-00069848-00069999 dark backgrounds and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00253-00070000-00070231 well as you can see it's complicated and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00254-00070232-00070311 in the way
GOrrHcg7UdU-00255-00070312-00070615 it has evolved it's probably time to to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00256-00070616-00070823 start rethinking some of these
GOrrHcg7UdU-00257-00070824-00071159 uh elements because when when they get
GOrrHcg7UdU-00258-00071160-00071431 lots of text it's going to be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00259-00071432-00071631 complicated to read we can
GOrrHcg7UdU-00260-00071632-00071975 have some contrast issues and so on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00261-00071976-00072262 here's another example of uh some some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00262-00072263-00072350 blocks some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00263-00072351-00072719 some card types that they get the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00264-00072720-00072999 the act the main action button on top of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00265-00073000-00073206 images which is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00266-00073207-00073526 problematic because it can have a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00267-00073527-00073823 lack of contrast of contrast depending
GOrrHcg7UdU-00268-00073824-00073911 on the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00269-00073912-00074247 on the background images or you can even
GOrrHcg7UdU-00270-00074248-00074423 have some problem as you can see in this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00271-00074424-00074750 image the contraction is cutting the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00272-00074751-00074911 the eyes or the head of the main
GOrrHcg7UdU-00273-00074912-00075182 character in the in the bottom image
GOrrHcg7UdU-00274-00075183-00075415 so again there are some problems that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00275-00075416-00075503 will appear
GOrrHcg7UdU-00276-00075504-00075823 not with control designs but
GOrrHcg7UdU-00277-00075824-00076062 with uh different instances with
GOrrHcg7UdU-00278-00076063-00076191 different content
GOrrHcg7UdU-00279-00076192-00076526 and we need to think or rethink some of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00280-00076527-00076615 these
GOrrHcg7UdU-00281-00076616-00076903 elements in order to get uh something
GOrrHcg7UdU-00282-00076904-00077006 that is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00283-00077007-00077335 that adapts better to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00284-00077336-00077694 different kinds of content
GOrrHcg7UdU-00285-00077695-00078015 so one of the key elements in
GOrrHcg7UdU-00286-00078016-00078279 in the system interface is the are the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00287-00078280-00078391 cards
GOrrHcg7UdU-00288-00078392-00078623 so the cartridge is basically this this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00289-00078624-00078887 preview of a content that is going to be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00290-00078888-00079215 explained in another page but this this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00291-00079216-00079294 cards
GOrrHcg7UdU-00292-00079295-00079719 well they get a huge variation of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00293-00079720-00080031 content of information elements
GOrrHcg7UdU-00294-00080032-00080399 sometimes they have some color codes
GOrrHcg7UdU-00295-00080400-00080703 borders and stuff that is not always
GOrrHcg7UdU-00296-00080704-00081038 uh really clear what what it means or
GOrrHcg7UdU-00297-00081039-00081279 what it exactly means
GOrrHcg7UdU-00298-00081280-00081623 and as you can see sometimes uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00299-00081624-00081935 cards get abused so cards are supposed
GOrrHcg7UdU-00300-00081936-00081999 to be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00301-00082000-00082511 a small a fraction of uh of content
GOrrHcg7UdU-00302-00082512-00082687 very light and informative and this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00303-00082688-00082823 particular case where
GOrrHcg7UdU-00304-00082824-00083167 we're seeing a cards used in
GOrrHcg7UdU-00305-00083168-00083423 to display frequently asked questions
GOrrHcg7UdU-00306-00083424-00083511 which is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00307-00083512-00083975 not an ideal format for for cards
GOrrHcg7UdU-00308-00083976-00084335 as you can see well uh there are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00309-00084336-00084687 cards and cards of different types
GOrrHcg7UdU-00310-00084688-00084935 variations borders they sometimes get a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00311-00084936-00085087 border
GOrrHcg7UdU-00312-00085088-00085318 to border a colored border they
GOrrHcg7UdU-00313-00085319-00085455 sometimes don't
GOrrHcg7UdU-00314-00085456-00085711 they sometimes get a level on the on the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00315-00085712-00085838 top border
GOrrHcg7UdU-00316-00085839-00086255 sometimes not so the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00317-00086256-00086582 well cars have grown
GOrrHcg7UdU-00318-00086583-00086882 wild in the in the interface and this is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00319-00086883-00087126 a huge and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00320-00087127-00087662 an important area to work to work on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00321-00087663-00088031 we also have elements like the side side
GOrrHcg7UdU-00322-00088032-00088335 information that is supposed to to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00323-00088336-00088535 display
GOrrHcg7UdU-00324-00088536-00088887 very quick or small or small uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00325-00088888-00089150 details as you can see in the in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00326-00089151-00089311 second column
GOrrHcg7UdU-00327-00089312-00089494 we can see promoter group this the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00328-00089495-00089718 ceiling team who participates so this is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00329-00089719-00090023 this is a block that is supposed to be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00330-00090024-00090279 just a line of content and in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00331-00090280-00090350 following
GOrrHcg7UdU-00332-00090351-00090647 uh column we can see how this this uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00333-00090648-00090799 block has been abused
GOrrHcg7UdU-00334-00090800-00091079 in the sense that we're displaying too
GOrrHcg7UdU-00335-00091080-00091126 much
GOrrHcg7UdU-00336-00091127-00091471 content in a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00337-00091472-00091687 in a block that is not designed in this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00338-00091688-00091862 in this way
GOrrHcg7UdU-00339-00091863-00092191 so again we we keep facing some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00340-00092192-00092447 some problems and probably some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00341-00092448-00092543 indicators
GOrrHcg7UdU-00342-00092544-00092871 that we don't have the the right tools
GOrrHcg7UdU-00343-00092872-00093182 to display the the content in the way we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00344-00093183-00093279 want to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00345-00093280-00093662 to do it filters are also
GOrrHcg7UdU-00346-00093663-00093991 also an important and important part of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00347-00093992-00094047 the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00348-00094048-00094462 of the city uh you might be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00349-00094463-00094791 familiar with the uh side filters
GOrrHcg7UdU-00350-00094792-00095038 because they allow us to filter their
GOrrHcg7UdU-00351-00095039-00095262 results the cards of the proposals and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00352-00095263-00095374 everything
GOrrHcg7UdU-00353-00095375-00095687 but these filters are usually an
GOrrHcg7UdU-00354-00095688-00095999 an advanced tool aimed for for people
GOrrHcg7UdU-00355-00096000-00096031 who
GOrrHcg7UdU-00356-00096032-00096391 know who deeply know uh decidim
GOrrHcg7UdU-00357-00096392-00096815 or so sometimes these filters are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00358-00096816-00097247 in the way in in getting a huge
GOrrHcg7UdU-00359-00097248-00097550 or important part of the of the screen
GOrrHcg7UdU-00360-00097551-00097831 that means the real or the or the main
GOrrHcg7UdU-00361-00097832-00097918 content gets
GOrrHcg7UdU-00362-00097919-00098223 less part of the screen
GOrrHcg7UdU-00363-00098224-00098567 and they are not aimed to the to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00364-00098568-00098815 come on a regular user but but a super
GOrrHcg7UdU-00365-00098816-00099038 user or advanced one so this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00366-00099039-00099359 is another area that i will i will focus
GOrrHcg7UdU-00367-00099360-00099438 on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00368-00099439-00099847 uh regarding their styling
GOrrHcg7UdU-00369-00099848-00100150 we can also see some some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00370-00100151-00100487 elements like the callouts uh or
GOrrHcg7UdU-00371-00100488-00100726 alerts they are they are supposed to be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00372-00100727-00100918 a small colored
GOrrHcg7UdU-00373-00100919-00101294 rectangles that will explain a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00374-00101295-00101631 small message a short message usually
GOrrHcg7UdU-00375-00101632-00101967 sometimes informative sometimes
GOrrHcg7UdU-00376-00101968-00102199 sometimes they they explain there's
GOrrHcg7UdU-00377-00102200-00102415 there's a problem or something like that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00378-00102416-00102727 and we can find some cases where these
GOrrHcg7UdU-00379-00102728-00102951 these call outs is these alerts have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00380-00102952-00103054 been used to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00381-00103055-00103366 uh well basically to add an introduction
GOrrHcg7UdU-00382-00103367-00103527 to a section that doesn't
GOrrHcg7UdU-00383-00103528-00103966 have an introduction and and so on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00384-00103967-00104351 so again this is another another um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00385-00104352-00104639 indicator that we need different tools
GOrrHcg7UdU-00386-00104640-00104806 to explain
GOrrHcg7UdU-00387-00104807-00105143 our users how how the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00388-00105144-00105583 the well the platform works
GOrrHcg7UdU-00389-00105583-00105895 so um some highlights of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00390-00105896-00106271 of this uh interface uh inventory
GOrrHcg7UdU-00391-00106272-00106575 interface inventory area
GOrrHcg7UdU-00392-00106576-00106886 could be that there's no
GOrrHcg7UdU-00393-00106888-00107110 holistic approach to new designs and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00394-00107111-00107231 developments there's no
GOrrHcg7UdU-00395-00107232-00107566 user centered um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00396-00107567-00108023 approach or at least a ux approach in
GOrrHcg7UdU-00397-00108024-00108383 i mean it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-00398-00108383-00108727 some developments have been having
GOrrHcg7UdU-00399-00108728-00109010 introducing new patterns and other
GOrrHcg7UdU-00400-00109011-00109254 developments
GOrrHcg7UdU-00401-00109255-00109502 again other new patterns and we are we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00402-00109503-00109663 don't have a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00403-00109664-00109975 centralized language centralized or a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00404-00109976-00110383 unified patterns uh interface
GOrrHcg7UdU-00405-00110383-00110678 so we also have a design library this is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00406-00110679-00110895 this is a module where we store the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00407-00110896-00111183 the design proposals design how to how
GOrrHcg7UdU-00408-00111183-00111263 to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00409-00111264-00111590 uh use them and it's not it hasn't been
GOrrHcg7UdU-00410-00111591-00111678 updated
GOrrHcg7UdU-00411-00111679-00112031 in enough so it's difficult to get new
GOrrHcg7UdU-00412-00112032-00112239 developments and designs
GOrrHcg7UdU-00413-00112240-00112495 because this is a different problem that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00414-00112496-00112607 i'm not going to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00415-00112608-00112910 to approach but this is a general
GOrrHcg7UdU-00416-00112911-00112966 problem
GOrrHcg7UdU-00417-00112967-00113310 of the city we also have an
GOrrHcg7UdU-00418-00113311-00113471 information hierarchy that is not
GOrrHcg7UdU-00419-00113472-00113686 optimized to improve the readability of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00420-00113688-00113719 the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00421-00113720-00114134 of the interface so what i mean is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00422-00114135-00114278 some content that is not really
GOrrHcg7UdU-00423-00114279-00114502 important might get
GOrrHcg7UdU-00424-00114503-00114886 in the or might be in a position
GOrrHcg7UdU-00425-00114888-00115158 where shouldn't build like maybe the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00426-00115159-00115254 filters
GOrrHcg7UdU-00427-00115255-00115519 take too much space or there is too much
GOrrHcg7UdU-00428-00115520-00115799 information in cards and so on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00429-00115800-00116134 and and i think this is an important one
GOrrHcg7UdU-00430-00116135-00116302 cards shouldn't be the place where the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00431-00116303-00116551 user reads all the information
GOrrHcg7UdU-00432-00116552-00116775 but an invitation to read more so cards
GOrrHcg7UdU-00433-00116776-00116966 should should only
GOrrHcg7UdU-00434-00116967-00117263 have the the minimum necessary
GOrrHcg7UdU-00435-00117264-00117447 information
GOrrHcg7UdU-00436-00117448-00117710 to explain the user what what what they
GOrrHcg7UdU-00437-00117711-00117831 are going to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00438-00117832-00118478 to find if they click on that card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00439-00118479-00118799 so uh with all this in mind there are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00440-00118800-00118902 some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00441-00118903-00119271 goals that that i have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00442-00119272-00119599 had in a call the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00443-00119600-00119815 what i mean is the the main goals of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00444-00119816-00120015 this this proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00445-00120016-00120383 i were to focus on the main
GOrrHcg7UdU-00446-00120383-00120647 user interface issues that is it's this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00447-00120648-00120854 is not solving everything
GOrrHcg7UdU-00448-00120855-00121207 this is uh trying to uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00449-00121208-00121599 solve or propos or start the solution
GOrrHcg7UdU-00450-00121600-00121943 of the biggest problems that i think
GOrrHcg7UdU-00451-00121944-00122271 we we found in
GOrrHcg7UdU-00452-00122272-00122663 in this research uh it's obviously
GOrrHcg7UdU-00453-00122664-00122943 trying to simplify simplify interface
GOrrHcg7UdU-00454-00122944-00123063 elements so they
GOrrHcg7UdU-00455-00123064-00123407 become easier to to maintain easier
GOrrHcg7UdU-00456-00123408-00123799 to to build in future developments
GOrrHcg7UdU-00457-00123800-00124071 and also and i think a really important
GOrrHcg7UdU-00458-00124072-00124119 one is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00459-00124120-00124502 this has to be easy to integrate
GOrrHcg7UdU-00460-00124503-00124719 so we already have developments we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00461-00124720-00124943 already have a lot of code
GOrrHcg7UdU-00462-00124944-00125271 we can we cannot switch off
GOrrHcg7UdU-00463-00125272-00125428 all all of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00464-00125429-00125599 [Music]
GOrrHcg7UdU-00465-00125600-00125902 decision instances for a year change
GOrrHcg7UdU-00466-00125903-00126271 them completely and switch on so this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00467-00126272-00126566 has somehow to live with the current
GOrrHcg7UdU-00468-00126567-00126751 user interface
GOrrHcg7UdU-00469-00126752-00127319 and it has to be added progressively
GOrrHcg7UdU-00470-00127320-00127663 so i'm going to explain
GOrrHcg7UdU-00471-00127664-00127943 uh their style employ proposal it's it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-00472-00127944-00128007 a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00473-00128008-00128590 four page html prototype
GOrrHcg7UdU-00474-00128591-00129023 that you can also access on this url
GOrrHcg7UdU-00475-00129024-00129351 but i think we will send you the url
GOrrHcg7UdU-00476-00129352-00129783 after this presentation so don't worry
GOrrHcg7UdU-00477-00129783-00130183 so i'm going to go back to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00478-00130183-00130566 my browser okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00479-00130567-00130895 so here i am so this is you if you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00480-00130896-00131007 follow the link
GOrrHcg7UdU-00481-00131008-00131319 you will see this page this is the this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00482-00131320-00131729 the design app where we store the whole
GOrrHcg7UdU-00483-00131730-00131878 [Music]
GOrrHcg7UdU-00484-00131879-00132247 all the all the proposals and try to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00485-00132248-00132535 to create an inventory of everything
GOrrHcg7UdU-00486-00132536-00132607 that happens
GOrrHcg7UdU-00487-00132608-00132935 in in the city so this block
GOrrHcg7UdU-00488-00132936-00133175 it's called the dear redesign is called
GOrrHcg7UdU-00489-00133176-00133271 is called name
GOrrHcg7UdU-00490-00133272-00133599 d because all the all the elements have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00491-00133600-00133943 all the classes of the elements have a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00492-00133944-00134263 prefix with the d so they can live with
GOrrHcg7UdU-00493-00134264-00134423 the older elements so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00494-00134424-00134983 so it can be integrated more easily
GOrrHcg7UdU-00495-00134984-00135166 so i'm going to show you these four
GOrrHcg7UdU-00496-00135167-00135343 pages
GOrrHcg7UdU-00497-00135344-00135519 first i'm going to explain that in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00498-00135520-00135678 neo interface
GOrrHcg7UdU-00499-00135679-00136039 uh part of the of the proposal is to add
GOrrHcg7UdU-00500-00136040-00136399 a photos on free phonetosome is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00501-00136400-00136839 a huge icon library it has a free option
GOrrHcg7UdU-00502-00136840-00137239 with 7 1600
GOrrHcg7UdU-00503-00137240-00137614 icons solid icons and it has also
GOrrHcg7UdU-00504-00137615-00137839 this this part is is creative commons
GOrrHcg7UdU-00505-00137840-00138031 and it's it's open source
GOrrHcg7UdU-00506-00138032-00138359 and they also have a pro version so so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00507-00138360-00138683 if you want
GOrrHcg7UdU-00508-00138684-00138847 um uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00509-00138848-00139127 like the the light version or dual zone
GOrrHcg7UdU-00510-00139128-00139199 version or
GOrrHcg7UdU-00511-00139200-00139535 you want to to to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00512-00139536-00139743 uh improve your your dressing
GOrrHcg7UdU-00513-00139744-00139895 installation you could
GOrrHcg7UdU-00514-00139896-00140223 still pay a uh and an upgrade
GOrrHcg7UdU-00515-00140224-00140463 and use the just the whole family but
GOrrHcg7UdU-00516-00140464-00140527 still the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00517-00140528-00140911 the the the free open source version
GOrrHcg7UdU-00518-00140912-00141239 is quite
GOrrHcg7UdU-00519-00141240-00141559 well it has a lot of icons
GOrrHcg7UdU-00520-00141560-00141919 which is an improvement uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00521-00141920-00142166 because we were using open iconic and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00522-00142167-00142366 open economy hasn't been
GOrrHcg7UdU-00523-00142367-00142678 uh updated in the in the past and it
GOrrHcg7UdU-00524-00142679-00142975 it doesn't have a lot of icons i think
GOrrHcg7UdU-00525-00142976-00143023 uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00526-00143024-00143278 switching to uh to a family like that is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00527-00143279-00143414 going to be a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00528-00143415-00143735 well it's going to to east uh future
GOrrHcg7UdU-00529-00143736-00143919 developments
GOrrHcg7UdU-00530-00143920-00144263 so again going back to this so you will
GOrrHcg7UdU-00531-00144264-00144487 see four pages all of them
GOrrHcg7UdU-00532-00144488-00144799 all four pages are part of the same
GOrrHcg7UdU-00533-00144800-00145175 of the same proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00534-00145176-00145478 so here are the process cards proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00535-00145479-00145751 initiative card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00536-00145752-00146007 initiative card with status so as you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00537-00146008-00146231 can see different variations
GOrrHcg7UdU-00538-00146232-00146639 start with type and so on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00539-00146640-00146895 i'm going to explain this in a moment as
GOrrHcg7UdU-00540-00146896-00147078 you can see
GOrrHcg7UdU-00541-00147079-00147383 there's some variations of the cards we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00542-00147384-00147478 will see
GOrrHcg7UdU-00543-00147479-00147887 a proposal for filtering the results
GOrrHcg7UdU-00544-00147888-00148199 then we will see what
GOrrHcg7UdU-00545-00148200-00148526 could be the uh the landing page of a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00546-00148527-00148790 process
GOrrHcg7UdU-00547-00148791-00149063 and a secondary page of the process this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00548-00149064-00149295 is what i'm what i'm going to explain
GOrrHcg7UdU-00549-00149296-00149623 so again this is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00550-00149624-00149959 these are the cards
GOrrHcg7UdU-00551-00149960-00150214 the main idea is to reduce the amount of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00552-00150215-00150278 the of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00553-00150279-00150543 information that that that we are going
GOrrHcg7UdU-00554-00150544-00150766 to sow in a card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00555-00150767-00151135 so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00556-00151136-00151535 here for example is a proposal a card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00557-00151536-00151839 the whole card is clickable so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00558-00151840-00152111 no more no more looking for the elements
GOrrHcg7UdU-00559-00152112-00152166 that are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00560-00152167-00152502 clickable or not the whole card is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00561-00152503-00152590 clickable but
GOrrHcg7UdU-00562-00152591-00152887 it can also accept nested links so if
GOrrHcg7UdU-00563-00152888-00152935 you have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00564-00152936-00153254 some links inside the card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00565-00153255-00153663 it will work as expected
GOrrHcg7UdU-00566-00153664-00153943 you we have a title we have some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00567-00153944-00154031 metadata
GOrrHcg7UdU-00568-00154032-00154231 only the metadata that is really
GOrrHcg7UdU-00569-00154232-00154343 relevant like
GOrrHcg7UdU-00570-00154344-00154607 comments and supports because it shows
GOrrHcg7UdU-00571-00154608-00154663 if the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00572-00154664-00155054 proposal initiative or
GOrrHcg7UdU-00573-00155055-00155319 order has some activity which might be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00574-00155320-00155614 interesting for the user
GOrrHcg7UdU-00575-00155615-00155975 a description some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00576-00155976-00156311 tags category tags in case they are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00577-00156312-00156647 necessary and they publish data
GOrrHcg7UdU-00578-00156648-00156999 and that's basically it so if
GOrrHcg7UdU-00579-00157000-00157183 i go back to the process card we will
GOrrHcg7UdU-00580-00157184-00157399 see a version of the card that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00581-00157400-00157751 adds a picture and adds
GOrrHcg7UdU-00582-00157752-00158111 um some some dates the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00583-00158112-00158575 starting date and the ending date
GOrrHcg7UdU-00584-00158576-00158999 and also a variation with with an author
GOrrHcg7UdU-00585-00159000-00159414 in case we need it
GOrrHcg7UdU-00586-00159415-00159711 so here's a the same proposal initiative
GOrrHcg7UdU-00587-00159712-00159775 card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00588-00159776-00159999 but with statues as we saw there are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00589-00160000-00160214 several cases where the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00590-00160215-00160607 where a card an initiative a proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00591-00160608-00160695 whichever
GOrrHcg7UdU-00592-00160696-00160943 has been accepted has been rejected has
GOrrHcg7UdU-00593-00160944-00161087 had a problem
GOrrHcg7UdU-00594-00161088-00161390 has changed the status so we have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00595-00161391-00161743 the accepted rejected and basically
GOrrHcg7UdU-00596-00161744-00162223 a free text if needed and successful
GOrrHcg7UdU-00597-00162224-00162559 so so it allows us to to explain to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00598-00162560-00162839 to quickly explain the status of uh of a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00599-00162840-00162887 card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00600-00162888-00163263 a proposal or equivalent
GOrrHcg7UdU-00601-00163264-00163519 here's the version with image if we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00602-00163520-00163607 needed
GOrrHcg7UdU-00603-00163608-00163951 a version of of with image it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-00604-00163952-00164326 it's better to to have the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00605-00164327-00164654 well it's better i think it's better to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00606-00164655-00165014 to have most of the cards most of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00607-00165015-00165287 cards that will come from from the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00608-00165288-00165447 directly from the users
GOrrHcg7UdU-00609-00165448-00165814 with without an image in order to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00610-00165815-00166135 to keep some styling or
GOrrHcg7UdU-00611-00166136-00166471 some meaningful styling but sometimes
GOrrHcg7UdU-00612-00166472-00166678 you will need a proposal with image like
GOrrHcg7UdU-00613-00166679-00166735 your
GOrrHcg7UdU-00614-00166736-00166975 i don't know you are suggesting uh or
GOrrHcg7UdU-00615-00166976-00167087 you are you are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00616-00167088-00167487 um yeah proposing something that it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-00617-00167488-00167559 basically
GOrrHcg7UdU-00618-00167560-00167863 a based on an image so so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00619-00167864-00168126 therefore the image is relevant so this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00620-00168127-00168199 is the variant
GOrrHcg7UdU-00621-00168200-00168647 of the of the card with an image
GOrrHcg7UdU-00622-00168648-00169031 if we needed to to explain
GOrrHcg7UdU-00623-00169032-00169343 uh the type of card that that we are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00624-00169344-00169854 that we are displaying this might might
GOrrHcg7UdU-00625-00169855-00170238 might have some sense when we are like
GOrrHcg7UdU-00626-00170239-00170519 making a whole search in the website and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00627-00170520-00170590 we will
GOrrHcg7UdU-00628-00170591-00170871 we will see proposals comments and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00629-00170872-00171023 initiatives so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00630-00171024-00171343 when the the kind of content is mixed
GOrrHcg7UdU-00631-00171344-00171759 then we can add small text here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00632-00171760-00172087 uh being user the kind of of card that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00633-00172088-00172207 you that it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-00634-00172208-00172454 displaying so so if it's not clear
GOrrHcg7UdU-00635-00172455-00172566 enough
GOrrHcg7UdU-00636-00172567-00172990 it will add a title only there
GOrrHcg7UdU-00637-00172991-00173295 so um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00638-00173296-00173687 if again just for disambiguation
GOrrHcg7UdU-00639-00173688-00173999 purposes we need to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00640-00174000-00174366 to explain the um the origin of the car
GOrrHcg7UdU-00641-00174367-00174471 and of the card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00642-00174472-00174799 so say this card this card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00643-00174800-00175047 is part of a process in particular or
GOrrHcg7UdU-00644-00175048-00175214 something like that we can
GOrrHcg7UdU-00645-00175215-00175559 use this content here this title here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00646-00175560-00175638 process
GOrrHcg7UdU-00647-00175639-00175999 and a link to the original process
GOrrHcg7UdU-00648-00176000-00176343 again this kind of information is only
GOrrHcg7UdU-00649-00176344-00176559 makes only sense if it makes sense if
GOrrHcg7UdU-00650-00176560-00176790 not let's remove it because
GOrrHcg7UdU-00651-00176791-00177031 because uh the less amount of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00652-00177032-00177247 information in a card the easier
GOrrHcg7UdU-00653-00177248-00177607 it is to to read
GOrrHcg7UdU-00654-00177608-00177847 so i am current with the relative date
GOrrHcg7UdU-00655-00177848-00177959 of creation when
GOrrHcg7UdU-00656-00177960-00178302 when some some cards are recent recent
GOrrHcg7UdU-00657-00178303-00178535 a meetup card it's basically the same
GOrrHcg7UdU-00658-00178536-00178647 but it will have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00659-00178648-00178966 some some dates
GOrrHcg7UdU-00660-00178967-00179335 time and jail location
GOrrHcg7UdU-00661-00179336-00179623 a meetup card with author if it makes
GOrrHcg7UdU-00662-00179624-00179695 sense
GOrrHcg7UdU-00663-00179696-00180031 to display the altar and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00664-00180032-00180223 some other cards like the initiative
GOrrHcg7UdU-00665-00180224-00180407 card that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00666-00180408-00180575 might be interesting to display the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00667-00180576-00180838 amount of signatures that get that got
GOrrHcg7UdU-00668-00180839-00181135 the initiative card and so on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00669-00181136-00181447 and the button in case
GOrrHcg7UdU-00670-00181448-00181687 uh we really need to add a call to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00671-00181688-00181783 action to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00672-00181784-00182135 to a card okay so some most of the cards
GOrrHcg7UdU-00673-00182136-00182295 in this proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00674-00182296-00182695 they are links i mean the whole card is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00675-00182696-00182951 linked so you don't really need to to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00676-00182952-00183102 enforce the call to action something
GOrrHcg7UdU-00677-00183103-00183263 like that but if you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00678-00183264-00183599 want for some reason to display
GOrrHcg7UdU-00679-00183600-00183823 a clear call to action like sign the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00680-00183824-00183951 initiative
GOrrHcg7UdU-00681-00183952-00184126 we we need you to sign the initiative
GOrrHcg7UdU-00682-00184127-00184311 not only visit this card
GOrrHcg7UdU-00683-00184312-00184526 then this is this this is the proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00684-00184527-00185071 to how how to display it okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00685-00185072-00185399 um so filters uh the proposal here is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00686-00185400-00185559 basically
GOrrHcg7UdU-00687-00185560-00185919 to make the hill make the filter
GOrrHcg7UdU-00688-00185920-00186190 something advanced so they are not
GOrrHcg7UdU-00689-00186191-00186335 displayed in the left
GOrrHcg7UdU-00690-00186336-00186671 side anymore but in the top side
GOrrHcg7UdU-00691-00186672-00187007 and they are folded by default so we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00692-00187008-00187150 will have a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00693-00187151-00187463 search that allows us to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00694-00187464-00187695 quickly search we might have some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00695-00187696-00187847 filtering
GOrrHcg7UdU-00696-00187848-00188150 tabs here like so me all the proposals
GOrrHcg7UdU-00697-00188151-00188511 the accepted proposals and so on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00698-00188512-00188871 and if we selected some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00699-00188872-00189311 of the this is not working it's an html
GOrrHcg7UdU-00700-00189312-00189590 prototype with basic javascript but the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00701-00189591-00189878 the idea would be that if you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00702-00189879-00190278 select some areas topics and so on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00703-00190279-00190590 they appear here so we we tipped the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00704-00190591-00190750 user
GOrrHcg7UdU-00705-00190751-00191078 explaining that uh they already
GOrrHcg7UdU-00706-00191079-00191407 chose some some of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00707-00191408-00191590 filtering options and they are displayed
GOrrHcg7UdU-00708-00191591-00191735 here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00709-00191736-00192047 and obviously ordering and so on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00710-00192048-00192295 so this could be the the filtering
GOrrHcg7UdU-00711-00192296-00192438 proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00712-00192439-00192631 that's displaying what is more relevant
GOrrHcg7UdU-00713-00192632-00192790 for the regular user
GOrrHcg7UdU-00714-00192791-00193143 search and an order by
GOrrHcg7UdU-00715-00193144-00193526 unhiding any advanced thing
GOrrHcg7UdU-00716-00193527-00194014 in a in an advanced search here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00717-00194015-00194326 finally i would like to explain the the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00718-00194327-00194766 the landing page of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00719-00194767-00195102 process
GOrrHcg7UdU-00720-00195103-00195463 so as you can see it could be a process
GOrrHcg7UdU-00721-00195464-00195671 or other kind of element but because we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00722-00195672-00196102 in in decision will reduce a lot
GOrrHcg7UdU-00723-00196103-00196438 this this kind of structures for for
GOrrHcg7UdU-00724-00196439-00196743 several elements so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00725-00196744-00197023 um first of all we have an image but
GOrrHcg7UdU-00726-00197024-00197150 this image
GOrrHcg7UdU-00727-00197151-00197502 so that this is out instead of being
GOrrHcg7UdU-00728-00197503-00197807 on top of the image it's on a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00729-00197808-00198190 on a separate white background
GOrrHcg7UdU-00730-00198191-00198471 dead box it's all the information we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00731-00198472-00198614 might need
GOrrHcg7UdU-00732-00198615-00198943 also the navigation
GOrrHcg7UdU-00733-00198944-00199254 um what else
GOrrHcg7UdU-00734-00199255-00199590 so the site data like like uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00735-00199591-00199911 sharing and so on we have uh uh we could
GOrrHcg7UdU-00736-00199912-00199950 have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00737-00199951-00200159 some kind of menu we could also have the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00738-00200160-00200623 embed me menus not developed here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00739-00200624-00200911 the follow button if we need to explain
GOrrHcg7UdU-00740-00200912-00201175 some more information here it is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00741-00201176-00201519 it would be a model for that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00742-00201520-00201854 we keep this space for the most
GOrrHcg7UdU-00743-00201855-00202166 relevant information like if this is a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00744-00202167-00202326 process and there are some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00745-00202327-00202759 there are some phases
GOrrHcg7UdU-00746-00202760-00203143 so if if like we are in the third phase
GOrrHcg7UdU-00747-00203144-00203390 third phase of the of nine or third step
GOrrHcg7UdU-00748-00203391-00203543 of nine steps
GOrrHcg7UdU-00749-00203544-00203766 then we can explain this information
GOrrHcg7UdU-00750-00203767-00203935 here and if this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00751-00203936-00204343 this step this phase has some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00752-00204344-00204550 well if it has a call to action
GOrrHcg7UdU-00753-00204551-00204671 something like that we can
GOrrHcg7UdU-00754-00204672-00205038 we can put it here so we have a small
GOrrHcg7UdU-00755-00205039-00205223 description
GOrrHcg7UdU-00756-00205223-00205471 and a link to additional documentation
GOrrHcg7UdU-00757-00205471-00205646 and technical data that is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00758-00205648-00206062 basically this link here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00759-00206063-00206494 um now we have the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00760-00206496-00207103 proposals meetings and stats of them
GOrrHcg7UdU-00761-00207104-00207398 so there's there's a small redesign of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00762-00207400-00207471 this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00763-00207471-00207862 of the stats card too using the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00764-00207863-00208286 the phontosome icons
GOrrHcg7UdU-00765-00208287-00208590 and what else oh yeah and if you click
GOrrHcg7UdU-00766-00208591-00208614 on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00767-00208615-00208942 technical data you will see now
GOrrHcg7UdU-00768-00208944-00209198 all this kind of data that as you might
GOrrHcg7UdU-00769-00209200-00209351 remember
GOrrHcg7UdU-00770-00209352-00209558 it's required some more some more space
GOrrHcg7UdU-00771-00209559-00209734 some more information so the technical
GOrrHcg7UdU-00772-00209735-00209839 data
GOrrHcg7UdU-00773-00209840-00210231 uh it's usually um explaining uh who's
GOrrHcg7UdU-00774-00210232-00210367 the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00775-00210367-00210694 who's the um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00776-00210696-00211006 well who's behind this initiative um and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00777-00211007-00211063 the uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00778-00211064-00211455 on the scope and stuff like that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00779-00211456-00211791 so we hide it here because hide it
GOrrHcg7UdU-00780-00211792-00212119 or we store it here because it's not the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00781-00212119-00212351 main information where we're using the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00782-00212352-00212679 the the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00783-00212680-00212871 landing page for the most important
GOrrHcg7UdU-00784-00212871-00212998 information for the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00785-00213000-00213215 for the regular user but any user then
GOrrHcg7UdU-00786-00213216-00213351 requires more data
GOrrHcg7UdU-00787-00213352-00213663 or requires uh some analysis
GOrrHcg7UdU-00788-00213664-00213934 or transparency they can go to the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00789-00213935-00214119 technical data page
GOrrHcg7UdU-00790-00214119-00214423 and see what's going on we can also we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00791-00214423-00214767 also have the related documents here
GOrrHcg7UdU-00792-00214767-00215055 and any other block that might be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00793-00215056-00215279 important to have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00794-00215280-00215758 but a not important else in the sense of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00795-00215759-00215806 of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00796-00215807-00215975 the most important thing you should read
GOrrHcg7UdU-00797-00215976-00216175 before before continue
GOrrHcg7UdU-00798-00216176-00216527 i don't know if it made sense i hope
GOrrHcg7UdU-00799-00216528-00216871 it did so um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00800-00216871-00217246 as you can see there's some more um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00801-00217248-00217510 roman space for the description and so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00802-00217511-00217551 on
GOrrHcg7UdU-00803-00217552-00217863 i think i explained it enough
GOrrHcg7UdU-00804-00217864-00218198 and just a regular problem
GOrrHcg7UdU-00805-00218200-00218510 a regular problem of the of this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00806-00218511-00218839 interface here or this navigation in
GOrrHcg7UdU-00807-00218840-00218934 particular
GOrrHcg7UdU-00808-00218935-00219319 is usually sometimes in some instances
GOrrHcg7UdU-00809-00219319-00219534 they get links and links and links and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00810-00219535-00219631 links
GOrrHcg7UdU-00811-00219632-00220503 so in order i'm going to just
GOrrHcg7UdU-00812-00220504-00220815 resize my screen
GOrrHcg7UdU-00813-00220816-00221023 and the whole idea is that in the moment
GOrrHcg7UdU-00814-00221023-00221263 that you don't have more room
GOrrHcg7UdU-00815-00221264-00221606 for the links the links get under
GOrrHcg7UdU-00816-00221607-00221927 a menu it's close to the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00817-00221928-00222463 to the menu we we have now it's just
GOrrHcg7UdU-00818-00222464-00222855 more responsive
GOrrHcg7UdU-00819-00222856-00223342 so it it even works
GOrrHcg7UdU-00820-00223344-00223967 for a mobile view
GOrrHcg7UdU-00821-00223967-00224375 so now um a mobile the mobile view and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00822-00224376-00224655 the desktop view get get a closer
GOrrHcg7UdU-00823-00224656-00224855 similar similar look that i think
GOrrHcg7UdU-00824-00224856-00225175 yeah it improves the the interaction
GOrrHcg7UdU-00825-00225176-00225287 with this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00826-00225288-00225551 particular page that has lots of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00827-00225552-00225623 information
GOrrHcg7UdU-00828-00225623-00225934 and content so again i
GOrrHcg7UdU-00829-00225935-00226279 think i i talked a lot
GOrrHcg7UdU-00830-00226280-00226942 so let me go back to this
GOrrHcg7UdU-00831-00226944-00227294 and let me finish with this so um
GOrrHcg7UdU-00832-00227296-00227534 this is just a starting point this is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00833-00227535-00227839 not a closed design this is not a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00834-00227840-00228055 and it will be nothing without your
GOrrHcg7UdU-00835-00228056-00228223 feedback
GOrrHcg7UdU-00836-00228223-00228567 so um make sure that you will work now
GOrrHcg7UdU-00837-00228567-00228887 in different groups and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00838-00228888-00229198 well follow some some schedule
GOrrHcg7UdU-00839-00229200-00229582 trying to analyze the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00840-00229583-00229919 proposed design and see
GOrrHcg7UdU-00841-00229919-00230223 if it fits what they
GOrrHcg7UdU-00842-00230223-00230534 if if it's appropriate
GOrrHcg7UdU-00843-00230535-00230798 so i'm just going to ask these questions
GOrrHcg7UdU-00844-00230800-00230927 myself
GOrrHcg7UdU-00845-00230928-00231310 then you can you can you can also follow
GOrrHcg7UdU-00846-00231311-00231527 obviously the schedule so my questions
GOrrHcg7UdU-00847-00231528-00231703 for you would be are these problems the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00848-00231704-00231919 problems that i presented correctly
GOrrHcg7UdU-00849-00231919-00232246 identified in the in the uh destiny
GOrrHcg7UdU-00850-00232248-00232351 interface
GOrrHcg7UdU-00851-00232352-00232558 are these problems correctly addressed
GOrrHcg7UdU-00852-00232559-00232671 so the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00853-00232671-00233046 the solutions that are being suggested
GOrrHcg7UdU-00854-00233048-00233382 are they a appropriate
GOrrHcg7UdU-00855-00233383-00233615 what other use cases are not addressed
GOrrHcg7UdU-00856-00233616-00233727 in this proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-00857-00233728-00234151 because you you all have experience with
GOrrHcg7UdU-00858-00234152-00234479 with deciding uh you all have experience
GOrrHcg7UdU-00859-00234480-00234798 and have fun have faced different
GOrrHcg7UdU-00860-00234800-00234958 problems so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00861-00234959-00235223 maybe there's something that is not is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00862-00235223-00235287 not
GOrrHcg7UdU-00863-00235288-00235606 here and should be here are there any
GOrrHcg7UdU-00864-00235607-00235823 other ways to solve these problems
GOrrHcg7UdU-00865-00235823-00236063 this is not the this is not the only way
GOrrHcg7UdU-00866-00236064-00236206 this is not the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00867-00236207-00236615 the um the solute the definitive
GOrrHcg7UdU-00868-00236616-00236687 solution
GOrrHcg7UdU-00869-00236688-00236934 that might be others so maybe we can
GOrrHcg7UdU-00870-00236935-00237063 address these problems in
GOrrHcg7UdU-00871-00237064-00237415 in other ways and what other major areas
GOrrHcg7UdU-00872-00237416-00237646 or problems would you address next since
GOrrHcg7UdU-00873-00237648-00237791 we just
GOrrHcg7UdU-00874-00237792-00238167 focused on on some cards some filters
GOrrHcg7UdU-00875-00238167-00238582 and a landing and a landing page
GOrrHcg7UdU-00876-00238583-00238903 so that would be it thank you very much
GOrrHcg7UdU-00877-00238904-00239231 for listening hope it wasn't too hard
GOrrHcg7UdU-00878-00239232-00239815 and thanks for coming obviously
GOrrHcg7UdU-00879-00239816-00240127 uh okay uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00880-00240128-00240375 thank you very much javi for the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00881-00240376-00240479 presentation
GOrrHcg7UdU-00882-00240480-00240767 as i already told you i think you did a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00883-00240767-00240894 fantastic job
GOrrHcg7UdU-00884-00240896-00241158 identifying some of the some important
GOrrHcg7UdU-00885-00241159-00241342 enhancements
GOrrHcg7UdU-00886-00241344-00241751 not only in terms of the usability and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00887-00241752-00241934 the participants experience but also
GOrrHcg7UdU-00888-00241935-00241998 taking
GOrrHcg7UdU-00889-00242000-00242287 into account accessibility aspects which
GOrrHcg7UdU-00890-00242288-00242375 are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00891-00242376-00242710 very important as well okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00892-00242711-00243087 now comes the funniest part we are going
GOrrHcg7UdU-00893-00243088-00243198 to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00894-00243200-00243510 split into different
GOrrHcg7UdU-00895-00243511-00243751 groups randomly you don't need to do
GOrrHcg7UdU-00896-00243752-00243823 anything
GOrrHcg7UdU-00897-00243823-00244142 you will see a pop-up to join another
GOrrHcg7UdU-00898-00244144-00244342 room
GOrrHcg7UdU-00899-00244344-00244551 and but some important things i need to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00900-00244552-00244742 mention uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00901-00244744-00245055 each group must choose a facilitator
GOrrHcg7UdU-00902-00245056-00245255 okay who will be in charge will be the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00903-00245256-00245510 person who will be in charge of taking
GOrrHcg7UdU-00904-00245511-00245598 notes
GOrrHcg7UdU-00905-00245600-00245967 uh of all the contributions of her group
GOrrHcg7UdU-00906-00245967-00246334 we will pass now for each group
GOrrHcg7UdU-00907-00246335-00246639 sharing a path to take these notes
GOrrHcg7UdU-00908-00246640-00247023 and in the parts you will find also
GOrrHcg7UdU-00909-00247023-00247319 uh the link that has already been shared
GOrrHcg7UdU-00910-00247319-00247494 in the chat the link to the uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00911-00247496-00247815 design app uh so you can review
GOrrHcg7UdU-00912-00247816-00248055 the different proposals maybe it would
GOrrHcg7UdU-00913-00248056-00248246 be a good idea to also
GOrrHcg7UdU-00914-00248248-00248615 have these final questions that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00915-00248616-00248975 xavier mentioned and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00916-00248976-00249367 each group will have 30 minutes because
GOrrHcg7UdU-00917-00249367-00249591 unfortunately we're running a little bit
GOrrHcg7UdU-00918-00249592-00249703 out of time
GOrrHcg7UdU-00919-00249704-00250079 but i think we can get it in 30 minutes
GOrrHcg7UdU-00920-00250080-00250382 so when the time is over
GOrrHcg7UdU-00921-00250383-00250679 the room will close automatically okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00922-00250680-00250758 so we'll
GOrrHcg7UdU-00923-00250759-00250982 all return to this main room and each
GOrrHcg7UdU-00924-00250983-00251110 facilitator
GOrrHcg7UdU-00925-00251111-00251463 will uh share the the conclusions
GOrrHcg7UdU-00926-00251464-00251767 uh of her group and
GOrrHcg7UdU-00927-00251767-00252087 i think this is it's the only thing
GOrrHcg7UdU-00928-00252088-00252423 uh yeah i need also to say that a note
GOrrHcg7UdU-00929-00252423-00252479 for
GOrrHcg7UdU-00930-00252480-00252719 each facilitator as you know we are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00931-00252719-00252903 recording this session
GOrrHcg7UdU-00932-00252904-00253255 uh to have it afterwards so just for you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00933-00253256-00253430 to know to the people who will be
GOrrHcg7UdU-00934-00253431-00253687 presented that they will be recorded
GOrrHcg7UdU-00935-00253688-00253991 when we come back to the main room okay
GOrrHcg7UdU-00936-00253992-00254303 i think let me know if there is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00937-00254304-00254479 something that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00938-00254480-00254910 i didn't explain well and if not
GOrrHcg7UdU-00939-00254911-00256471 let's get to work thank you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00940-00256471-00256767 thanks javi for sharing the questions
GOrrHcg7UdU-00941-00256767-00257039 we're going to copy paste it in the pads
GOrrHcg7UdU-00942-00257040-00257367 and i think uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00943-00257367-00258575 we'll start to see our rooms right
GOrrHcg7UdU-00944-00258576-00258927 okay um i hope you see me and that we
GOrrHcg7UdU-00945-00258928-00259023 are
GOrrHcg7UdU-00946-00259023-00259358 all back to the main room
GOrrHcg7UdU-00947-00259359-00259663 um i need some help here because i don't
GOrrHcg7UdU-00948-00259664-00259791 really know
GOrrHcg7UdU-00949-00259792-00260030 who are the facilitators only from my
GOrrHcg7UdU-00950-00260031-00260230 group so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00951-00260231-00260487 i'm going to start i know sorry we have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00952-00260488-00260558 a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00953-00260559-00260934 numbered groups right so
GOrrHcg7UdU-00954-00260935-00261271 let's start with the group one
GOrrHcg7UdU-00955-00261271-00261639 i'm sorry i know this was a bit short of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00956-00261640-00261758 time but
GOrrHcg7UdU-00957-00261759-00262115 we're going to to get more practice
GOrrHcg7UdU-00958-00262116-00262415 [Music]
GOrrHcg7UdU-00959-00262416-00262699 in the time okay group one who is the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00960-00262700-00263023 facilitator for this first group
GOrrHcg7UdU-00961-00263024-00263367 i am the facilitator okay andres
GOrrHcg7UdU-00962-00263368-00264047 please turn on your camera if you want
GOrrHcg7UdU-00963-00264048-00264743 yeah let me oh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00964-00264744-00265079 i think i am there yeah hi how are you
GOrrHcg7UdU-00965-00265080-00265455 all uh so our theme
GOrrHcg7UdU-00966-00265456-00265910 was uh we a little international we have
GOrrHcg7UdU-00967-00265911-00266247 people from from japan from new york
GOrrHcg7UdU-00968-00266248-00266334 city
GOrrHcg7UdU-00969-00266335-00266543 and also from from here from from
GOrrHcg7UdU-00970-00266544-00266758 catalonia
GOrrHcg7UdU-00971-00266759-00267119 and yeah there were some comments
GOrrHcg7UdU-00972-00267120-00267303 regarding
GOrrHcg7UdU-00973-00267304-00267551 that responsive design is really
GOrrHcg7UdU-00974-00267552-00267615 important
GOrrHcg7UdU-00975-00267616-00267967 because more than half of the users
GOrrHcg7UdU-00976-00267968-00268287 are using smartphones in japan
GOrrHcg7UdU-00977-00268288-00268630 there were also a comment regarding that
GOrrHcg7UdU-00978-00268631-00268951 we love the incremental approach
GOrrHcg7UdU-00979-00268952-00269191 and the thoughts given to operate a
GOrrHcg7UdU-00980-00269192-00269263 process of
GOrrHcg7UdU-00981-00269264-00269671 existing instances uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-00982-00269672-00270015 yeah there was like some mix in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00983-00270016-00270334 experience that some with
GOrrHcg7UdU-00984-00270335-00270734 some people didn't have at least
GOrrHcg7UdU-00985-00270735-00271247 having live instances
GOrrHcg7UdU-00986-00271248-00271758 finally the one of the main
GOrrHcg7UdU-00987-00271759-00272095 critics that were at the current design
GOrrHcg7UdU-00988-00272096-00272255 and the new design is regarding the
GOrrHcg7UdU-00989-00272256-00272439 accessibility of the platform
GOrrHcg7UdU-00990-00272440-00272719 that is yeah there are some
GOrrHcg7UdU-00991-00272720-00272839 accessibility
GOrrHcg7UdU-00992-00272840-00273175 uh issues at the moment especially
GOrrHcg7UdU-00993-00273176-00273543 regarding the use of screen readers
GOrrHcg7UdU-00994-00273544-00273903 and and there were also contrast
GOrrHcg7UdU-00995-00273904-00274287 issues and and finally we also
GOrrHcg7UdU-00996-00274288-00274639 talked about all the sample contents
GOrrHcg7UdU-00997-00274640-00274999 uh because it was like difficult to
GOrrHcg7UdU-00998-00275000-00275287 to understand what the platform is is
GOrrHcg7UdU-00999-00275288-00275358 doing and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01000-00275359-00275671 and the new design uh especially
GOrrHcg7UdU-01001-00275672-00275999 yeah with the cd that we had a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01002-00276000-00276334 lot of examples of real world
GOrrHcg7UdU-01003-00276335-00276655 use cases that could be useful
GOrrHcg7UdU-01004-00276656-00277006 to to also add
GOrrHcg7UdU-01005-00277007-00278134 and that's pretty much it
GOrrHcg7UdU-01006-00278135-00278447 okay thanks andres
GOrrHcg7UdU-01007-00278448-00278623 pao was mentioning in the chat that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01008-00278624-00278771 maybe it's interesting if the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01009-00278772-00278943 facilitators
GOrrHcg7UdU-01010-00278944-00279271 share their note in the screen i don't
GOrrHcg7UdU-01011-00279272-00279303 know
GOrrHcg7UdU-01012-00279304-00279599 if they can share the screen but if you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01013-00279600-00279743 can
GOrrHcg7UdU-01014-00279744-00280095 do it please so next group will be the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01015-00280096-00280391 second group i believe this is mine
GOrrHcg7UdU-01016-00280392-00280710 uh and i'll let beardill to present uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01017-00280711-00281039 some of the remarks we have discussed
GOrrHcg7UdU-01018-00281040-00281430 whenever you want
GOrrHcg7UdU-01019-00281431-00281782 okay can you hear me
GOrrHcg7UdU-01020-00281783-00282119 yes we hear you and see you perfect
GOrrHcg7UdU-01021-00282120-00282455 um so we on the on
GOrrHcg7UdU-01022-00282456-00282639 the questions so we think there the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01023-00282640-00282758 diagnosis
GOrrHcg7UdU-01024-00282759-00283023 and the analysis was was really good
GOrrHcg7UdU-01025-00283024-00283110 made by
GOrrHcg7UdU-01026-00283111-00283510 by by by javier
GOrrHcg7UdU-01027-00283511-00283855 on the problems that we didn't see
GOrrHcg7UdU-01028-00283856-00284143 that were addressed there was a whole
GOrrHcg7UdU-01029-00284144-00284206 slide about
GOrrHcg7UdU-01030-00284207-00284687 buttons but we didn't see a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01031-00284688-00285030 strategy to maybe improve like the many
GOrrHcg7UdU-01032-00285031-00285254 many buttons that the system has and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01033-00285255-00285630 and give a concrete a concrete
GOrrHcg7UdU-01034-00285631-00285999 use case for each of them
GOrrHcg7UdU-01035-00286000-00286247 use case that we didn't think were
GOrrHcg7UdU-01036-00286248-00286454 addressed in the proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-01037-00286455-00286806 we think that the navigations uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01038-00286807-00287087 yeah the the different levels of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01039-00287088-00287271 navigation in the system
GOrrHcg7UdU-01040-00287272-00287623 might need some some
GOrrHcg7UdU-01041-00287624-00287951 some work because they are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01042-00287952-00288151 sometimes not really well understood and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01043-00288152-00288454 it's a lot of navigation tabs
GOrrHcg7UdU-01044-00288455-00288647 we think that maybe we should address
GOrrHcg7UdU-01045-00288648-00288863 also the map interface
GOrrHcg7UdU-01046-00288864-00289199 that that has some problem in mobile and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01047-00289200-00289623 and even in desktop and also generally
GOrrHcg7UdU-01048-00289624-00289958 we hope that we can work on the the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01049-00289959-00290303 mobile information strategy currently
GOrrHcg7UdU-01050-00290304-00290415 like the whole
GOrrHcg7UdU-01051-00290416-00290719 all the information is shown uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01052-00290720-00291087 when you resize to mobile browsers
GOrrHcg7UdU-01053-00291088-00291271 and i think we should have a strategy to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01054-00291272-00291406 start hiding
GOrrHcg7UdU-01055-00291407-00291575 some stuff so that we have less
GOrrHcg7UdU-01056-00291576-00291758 information displayed on the screen
GOrrHcg7UdU-01057-00291759-00292071 when we look at it with a phone
GOrrHcg7UdU-01058-00292072-00292375 and then we did a little analysis on the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01059-00292376-00292679 the four views that were rebuilt
GOrrHcg7UdU-01060-00292680-00292919 there were many remarks on the process
GOrrHcg7UdU-01061-00292920-00293079 technical data
GOrrHcg7UdU-01062-00293080-00293391 uh we are a bit afraid that um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01063-00293392-00293575 well first we don't think we should add
GOrrHcg7UdU-01064-00293576-00293727 a new tab uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01065-00293728-00293943 for this since we already have many tabs
GOrrHcg7UdU-01066-00293944-00294095 uh usually in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01067-00294096-00294454 in the participatory spaces uh navbar
GOrrHcg7UdU-01068-00294455-00294830 so maybe uh having a strategy where
GOrrHcg7UdU-01069-00294831-00295167 we show the information on the presented
GOrrHcg7UdU-01070-00295168-00295503 on the presentation page and maybe
GOrrHcg7UdU-01071-00295504-00295863 use foldable menus where we can put
GOrrHcg7UdU-01072-00295864-00296167 the documents the steps
GOrrHcg7UdU-01073-00296168-00296487 uh things like that we think it could be
GOrrHcg7UdU-01074-00296488-00296639 a good improvement
GOrrHcg7UdU-01075-00296640-00296927 and and give the opportunity to users
GOrrHcg7UdU-01076-00296928-00297134 who just want to get to the point to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01077-00297135-00297479 to start to not be too lost when
GOrrHcg7UdU-01078-00297480-00297687 seeing the page and the ones that are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01079-00297688-00297887 more like power users to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01080-00297888-00298079 to kind of like get the information that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01081-00298080-00298282 they need
GOrrHcg7UdU-01082-00298283-00298582 um congrats on the filters
GOrrHcg7UdU-01083-00298583-00298887 we all think it's a very very super
GOrrHcg7UdU-01084-00298888-00299271 very good work and very much needed
GOrrHcg7UdU-01085-00299272-00299575 on the cards there was a feedback
GOrrHcg7UdU-01086-00299576-00299934 that uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01087-00299935-00300247 that we might not know there is no
GOrrHcg7UdU-01088-00300248-00300415 buttons anymore on the car
GOrrHcg7UdU-01089-00300416-00300654 and uh there was a feeling that uh users
GOrrHcg7UdU-01090-00300655-00300758 might not know that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01091-00300759-00300967 something is hidden behind it for
GOrrHcg7UdU-01092-00300968-00301230 example meeting might have a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01093-00301231-00301447 registration button an agenda or stuff
GOrrHcg7UdU-01094-00301448-00301551 like this and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01095-00301552-00301782 and it's cool that now it's the whole
GOrrHcg7UdU-01096-00301783-00301919 thing is clickable
GOrrHcg7UdU-01097-00301920-00302158 but we are afraid that people might not
GOrrHcg7UdU-01098-00302159-00302310 uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01099-00302311-00302463 feel like they need to click on it to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01100-00302464-00302666 get the info
GOrrHcg7UdU-01101-00302667-00302830 [Music]
GOrrHcg7UdU-01102-00302831-00303223 and and yes the processor origin
GOrrHcg7UdU-01103-00303224-00303630 there was a one feedback that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01104-00303631-00303958 we think that it could be the first the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01105-00303959-00304175 current implementation is better because
GOrrHcg7UdU-01106-00304176-00304367 it's displayed in a smaller
GOrrHcg7UdU-01107-00304368-00304654 and more clearer way and then yeah i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01108-00304655-00304782 think
GOrrHcg7UdU-01109-00304783-00305151 i think that's uh that's about it for us
GOrrHcg7UdU-01110-00305152-00305423 thank you for hosting the community me
GOrrHcg7UdU-01111-00305424-00305479 it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-01112-00305480-00305681 really good
GOrrHcg7UdU-01113-00305682-00305863 [Music]
GOrrHcg7UdU-01114-00305864-00306175 thank you virgil
GOrrHcg7UdU-01115-00306176-00306479 ok let's continue with the third group
GOrrHcg7UdU-01116-00306480-00306799 i don't know who is the facilitator
GOrrHcg7UdU-01117-00306800-00307751 if she or he can step up
GOrrHcg7UdU-01118-00307752-00308134 francesco hi how are you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01119-00308135-00308358 um our group i think agreed with a lot
GOrrHcg7UdU-01120-00308359-00308471 of what we just heard
GOrrHcg7UdU-01121-00308472-00308799 around um navigationally
GOrrHcg7UdU-01122-00308800-00308991 uh like the the menu bars and what that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01123-00308992-00309119 could look like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01124-00309120-00309482 um but i think just to go and order
GOrrHcg7UdU-01125-00309483-00309887 um the problems that were identified
GOrrHcg7UdU-01126-00309888-00310030 were certainly
GOrrHcg7UdU-01127-00310031-00310367 uh issues i think there was a little
GOrrHcg7UdU-01128-00310368-00310679 um misalignment and expectations of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01129-00310680-00310806 of what to expect coming into this
GOrrHcg7UdU-01130-00310807-00311071 meeting on the the scope
GOrrHcg7UdU-01131-00311072-00311367 um but i think there is a more
GOrrHcg7UdU-01132-00311368-00311687 fundamental
GOrrHcg7UdU-01133-00311688-00311830 expectation of like guiding folks
GOrrHcg7UdU-01134-00311831-00311967 through the process which i think is
GOrrHcg7UdU-01135-00311968-00312134 rooted in how the navigational bars are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01136-00312135-00312223 set up
GOrrHcg7UdU-01137-00312224-00312391 um how the sub navigation bar on the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01138-00312392-00312575 process page is directly inherits from
GOrrHcg7UdU-01139-00312576-00312799 what the components are and if
GOrrHcg7UdU-01140-00312800-00313039 um what it could look like to think
GOrrHcg7UdU-01141-00313040-00313127 about if
GOrrHcg7UdU-01142-00313128-00313343 the navigation bar within processes were
GOrrHcg7UdU-01143-00313344-00313682 organized differently
GOrrHcg7UdU-01144-00313683-00313910 um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01145-00313911-00314127 we also like or i liked where the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01146-00314128-00314287 technical data previously was
GOrrHcg7UdU-01147-00314288-00314534 it's something that i point out to um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01148-00314535-00314671 cities who are using it that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01149-00314672-00314879 word no matter what process you land on
GOrrHcg7UdU-01150-00314880-00315030 you'll have this space here to figure
GOrrHcg7UdU-01151-00315031-00315087 out
GOrrHcg7UdU-01152-00315088-00315223 what's happening in the space in a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01153-00315224-00315551 really quick glance
GOrrHcg7UdU-01154-00315552-00315815 filters also were just a really great
GOrrHcg7UdU-01155-00315816-00316199 improvement from what we saw
GOrrHcg7UdU-01156-00316200-00316319 and we like that you can click anywhere
GOrrHcg7UdU-01157-00316320-00316558 on the card to go into what's behind the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01158-00316559-00316767 card
GOrrHcg7UdU-01159-00316768-00316927 and the process page header being
GOrrHcg7UdU-01160-00316928-00317206 cleaner is much good again just because
GOrrHcg7UdU-01161-00317207-00317375 when you're at a process page there are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01162-00317376-00317567 so many levels of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01163-00317568-00317847 of uh horizontal bars you have the top
GOrrHcg7UdU-01164-00317848-00317999 bar with your name and search
GOrrHcg7UdU-01165-00318000-00318182 and login and then you have the main
GOrrHcg7UdU-01166-00318183-00318375 navigation bar the process page with the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01167-00318376-00318558 steps right now in the sub navigation
GOrrHcg7UdU-01168-00318559-00318615 bar
GOrrHcg7UdU-01169-00318616-00318758 it becomes a lot so the fact that the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01170-00318759-00319006 process page header was cleaned up is
GOrrHcg7UdU-01171-00319007-00319182 really good
GOrrHcg7UdU-01172-00319183-00319399 um i think some questions we have for
GOrrHcg7UdU-01173-00319400-00319623 cards is being able to add images to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01174-00319624-00319767 meetings
GOrrHcg7UdU-01175-00319768-00320006 um i think we i i wrote this down and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01176-00320007-00320167 this might be a mistake but i didn't see
GOrrHcg7UdU-01177-00320168-00320334 what voting would look like on cards but
GOrrHcg7UdU-01178-00320335-00320487 i think i saw in other people's notes
GOrrHcg7UdU-01179-00320488-00320558 that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01180-00320559-00320727 the supports were just like grayed out
GOrrHcg7UdU-01181-00320728-00320919 and really hard to see
GOrrHcg7UdU-01182-00320920-00321295 so maybe that's worth looking into
GOrrHcg7UdU-01183-00321296-00321463 again in the process page the sub bar
GOrrHcg7UdU-01184-00321464-00321679 menu is not prominent
GOrrHcg7UdU-01185-00321680-00321991 enough and can lead to confusion on for
GOrrHcg7UdU-01186-00321992-00322167 citizens on what to do once they get to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01187-00322168-00322439 a process page
GOrrHcg7UdU-01188-00322440-00322671 and we thought what it might look like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01189-00322672-00322863 to explore
GOrrHcg7UdU-01190-00322864-00323158 side menus and using hamburger menus to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01191-00323159-00323551 bring them in and bring them out
GOrrHcg7UdU-01192-00323552-00323806 some other major areas that we'd like to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01193-00323807-00323991 see address next
GOrrHcg7UdU-01194-00323992-00324158 is again how participants are guided
GOrrHcg7UdU-01195-00324159-00324254 through the process on a more
GOrrHcg7UdU-01196-00324255-00324527 fundamental level on a process page
GOrrHcg7UdU-01197-00324528-00324743 when participants get to a landing page
GOrrHcg7UdU-01198-00324744-00325103 it's not always clear what to do
GOrrHcg7UdU-01199-00325104-00325423 the main navigation menu of desadem
GOrrHcg7UdU-01200-00325424-00325719 is often modified in practice so what it
GOrrHcg7UdU-01201-00325720-00325927 could look like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01202-00325928-00326063 on the back end to have more
GOrrHcg7UdU-01203-00326064-00326230 customization options for the main menu
GOrrHcg7UdU-01204-00326231-00326382 in desa
GOrrHcg7UdU-01205-00326383-00326567 allowing images to be resized throughout
GOrrHcg7UdU-01206-00326568-00326806 the the site
GOrrHcg7UdU-01207-00326807-00326982 one example was often the logo was too
GOrrHcg7UdU-01208-00326983-00327271 small on the homepage
GOrrHcg7UdU-01209-00327272-00327399 there's another really there are some
GOrrHcg7UdU-01210-00327400-00327519 other really specific things like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01211-00327520-00327647 collaborative
GOrrHcg7UdU-01212-00327648-00327903 text work gets split up into many
GOrrHcg7UdU-01213-00327904-00328054 proposals
GOrrHcg7UdU-01214-00328055-00328319 which leads to the landing page being
GOrrHcg7UdU-01215-00328320-00328406 cluttered with
GOrrHcg7UdU-01216-00328407-00328527 a lot of proposals from one
GOrrHcg7UdU-01217-00328528-00328799 collaborative text potentially
GOrrHcg7UdU-01218-00328800-00329030 uh and then also being able to customize
GOrrHcg7UdU-01219-00329031-00329175 what shows up on the process landing
GOrrHcg7UdU-01220-00329176-00329343 page
GOrrHcg7UdU-01221-00329344-00330727 that's what we had
GOrrHcg7UdU-01222-00330728-00330934 thanks francesco sorry i'm being a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01223-00330935-00331110 little bit slow here
GOrrHcg7UdU-01224-00331111-00331406 okay pierre okay you're ready let's go
GOrrHcg7UdU-01225-00331407-00331478 hey everyone
GOrrHcg7UdU-01226-00331479-00331767 i tried to to anticipate uh yeah so pro
GOrrHcg7UdU-01227-00331768-00331839 group four
GOrrHcg7UdU-01228-00331840-00332295 with uh my
GOrrHcg7UdU-01229-00332296-00332495 and we actually we we were a bit
GOrrHcg7UdU-01230-00332496-00332630 confused with the questions
GOrrHcg7UdU-01231-00332631-00332863 uh so we actually went linearly we went
GOrrHcg7UdU-01232-00332864-00333015 through the designs again and then we
GOrrHcg7UdU-01233-00333016-00333134 thought we're going to put that back
GOrrHcg7UdU-01234-00333135-00333271 into the questions and then we didn't
GOrrHcg7UdU-01235-00333272-00333406 have time
GOrrHcg7UdU-01236-00333407-00333615 yeah it's still a little bit linear but
GOrrHcg7UdU-01237-00333616-00333743 i think we we
GOrrHcg7UdU-01238-00333744-00333927 really agree with what the other groups
GOrrHcg7UdU-01239-00333928-00334127 said about the problems being addressed
GOrrHcg7UdU-01240-00334128-00334215 and uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01241-00334216-00334463 or not being addressed but some of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01242-00334464-00334663 things we saw for example for the cards
GOrrHcg7UdU-01243-00334664-00334751 was that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01244-00334752-00334999 yes some items got smaller and grayer as
GOrrHcg7UdU-01245-00335000-00335127 francisco said like the number of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01246-00335128-00335254 supports and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01247-00335255-00335406 maybe that's actually a really important
GOrrHcg7UdU-01248-00335407-00335591 information so we think it's it's maybe
GOrrHcg7UdU-01249-00335592-00335782 it's not too good to make it too small
GOrrHcg7UdU-01250-00335783-00335910 and too gray
GOrrHcg7UdU-01251-00335911-00336143 uh one thing especially that disappeared
GOrrHcg7UdU-01252-00336144-00336239 from the card is the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01253-00336240-00336430 via the name of the offer now you just
GOrrHcg7UdU-01254-00336431-00336591 have a little like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01255-00336592-00336919 round uh image and power was saying that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01256-00336920-00337110 it's really important for for deciding
GOrrHcg7UdU-01257-00337111-00337247 for people to understand that the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01258-00337248-00337423 content of this team there are people
GOrrHcg7UdU-01259-00337424-00337639 behind it there are humans beings right
GOrrHcg7UdU-01260-00337640-00337919 and that that makes the whole uh card a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01261-00337920-00338143 little bit less personified
GOrrHcg7UdU-01262-00338144-00338478 um also we saw that there is no cta call
GOrrHcg7UdU-01263-00338479-00338678 to action button on a lot of the cards
GOrrHcg7UdU-01264-00338679-00338854 except the initiative one where you can
GOrrHcg7UdU-01265-00338855-00339023 sign and we think that's a shame because
GOrrHcg7UdU-01266-00339024-00339151 call to action buttons could have been
GOrrHcg7UdU-01267-00339152-00339278 even improved to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01268-00339279-00339567 to lead people into doing even more uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01269-00339568-00339743 more actions to lead people to vote to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01270-00339744-00339823 lead people to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01271-00339824-00340199 to leave proposals um monica was saying
GOrrHcg7UdU-01272-00340200-00340406 that they use a lot the number of people
GOrrHcg7UdU-01273-00340407-00340734 following a card or a process a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01274-00340735-00340999 proposal and that's a shame if this is
GOrrHcg7UdU-01275-00341000-00341039 not
GOrrHcg7UdU-01276-00341040-00341215 as visible anymore because for them it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-01277-00341216-00341343 really an indicator of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01278-00341344-00341591 how much how active a proposal or
GOrrHcg7UdU-01279-00341592-00341678 process is
GOrrHcg7UdU-01280-00341679-00342015 so they really want to see it kept
GOrrHcg7UdU-01281-00342016-00342206 regarding the filters same as the other
GOrrHcg7UdU-01282-00342207-00342319 groups we're really glad we've
GOrrHcg7UdU-01283-00342320-00342495 redesigned i think especially if the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01284-00342496-00342663 mobile version was a pain
GOrrHcg7UdU-01285-00342664-00342887 on this theme because the the filter
GOrrHcg7UdU-01286-00342888-00343071 block that was on the left on the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01287-00343072-00343127 desktop
GOrrHcg7UdU-01288-00343128-00343343 usually ended up in a small filter
GOrrHcg7UdU-01289-00343344-00343527 button but everyone was missing
GOrrHcg7UdU-01290-00343528-00343695 so we're really glad it's being split in
GOrrHcg7UdU-01291-00343696-00343815 different parts that you can have a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01292-00343816-00343991 search field that's always visible
GOrrHcg7UdU-01293-00343992-00344215 but you can have an ordering filter
GOrrHcg7UdU-01294-00344216-00344519 that's always visible
GOrrHcg7UdU-01295-00344520-00344806 uh um think it's it's it would be
GOrrHcg7UdU-01296-00344807-00344967 interesting to have some colors
GOrrHcg7UdU-01297-00344968-00345182 uh for the filters because you you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01298-00345183-00345415 adding some small boxes
GOrrHcg7UdU-01299-00345416-00345751 uh on all of the like for every
GOrrHcg7UdU-01300-00345752-00345927 filter added for the area of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01301-00345928-00346103 category so it would be great if they
GOrrHcg7UdU-01302-00346104-00346206 could be colored so you can
GOrrHcg7UdU-01303-00346207-00346375 differentiate them
GOrrHcg7UdU-01304-00346376-00346823 um yes the process landing page we also
GOrrHcg7UdU-01305-00346824-00346975 think there's some interesting
GOrrHcg7UdU-01306-00346976-00347158 improvements with the banner in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01307-00347159-00347406 behind um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01308-00347407-00347703 but the main problems we think with the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01309-00347704-00347839 landing page kind of remain
GOrrHcg7UdU-01310-00347840-00348023 which is for example that the navbar
GOrrHcg7UdU-01311-00348024-00348206 buttons are really not well identified
GOrrHcg7UdU-01312-00348207-00348310 they're all in red
GOrrHcg7UdU-01313-00348311-00348495 and on the same light and quite close
GOrrHcg7UdU-01314-00348496-00348630 from each to each other
GOrrHcg7UdU-01315-00348631-00348806 so it's really hard for users i think to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01316-00348807-00348967 identify what are the different things
GOrrHcg7UdU-01317-00348968-00349087 they can do
GOrrHcg7UdU-01318-00349088-00349463 uh the timeline uh block
GOrrHcg7UdU-01319-00349464-00349734 uh was already really tiny on decedent
GOrrHcg7UdU-01320-00349735-00349887 and when you have a lot of steps in your
GOrrHcg7UdU-01321-00349888-00350030 process it's really like this kind of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01322-00350031-00350087 like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01323-00350088-00350303 caterpillar that people don't really
GOrrHcg7UdU-01324-00350304-00350495 understand i think and so we were hoping
GOrrHcg7UdU-01325-00350496-00350687 to see it get bigger and it's not
GOrrHcg7UdU-01326-00350688-00350839 getting bigger but instead it's getting
GOrrHcg7UdU-01327-00350840-00351039 lower so it's even less visible
GOrrHcg7UdU-01328-00351040-00351239 and as a as a consequence that means the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01329-00351240-00351430 call to action button that was already
GOrrHcg7UdU-01330-00351431-00351487 below
GOrrHcg7UdU-01331-00351488-00351823 the timeline is also getting lower so i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01332-00351824-00351991 think
GOrrHcg7UdU-01333-00351992-00352167 and that was shared in the group that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01334-00352168-00352327 this button should get a much bigger
GOrrHcg7UdU-01335-00352328-00352487 space because when you want to get
GOrrHcg7UdU-01336-00352488-00352639 people to vote you really want that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01337-00352640-00352823 button to be visible and the first thing
GOrrHcg7UdU-01338-00352824-00353223 that people will see and click on
GOrrHcg7UdU-01339-00353224-00353447 and then yeah process technical data i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01340-00353448-00353591 think same same
GOrrHcg7UdU-01341-00353592-00353775 opinion as the others it doesn't deserve
GOrrHcg7UdU-01342-00353776-00353910 another tab but also
GOrrHcg7UdU-01343-00353911-00354263 i think most users most admins just fill
GOrrHcg7UdU-01344-00354264-00354343 in one
GOrrHcg7UdU-01345-00354344-00354623 two of these boxes so what happens if
GOrrHcg7UdU-01346-00354624-00354782 they only fill one does that mean the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01347-00354783-00354863 whole thing
GOrrHcg7UdU-01348-00354864-00355110 deserves a whole tab just for one field
GOrrHcg7UdU-01349-00355111-00355271 so i think the admins are going to end
GOrrHcg7UdU-01350-00355272-00355423 up not using any of these fills to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01351-00355424-00355647 prevent that tab from appearing
GOrrHcg7UdU-01352-00355648-00355799 because technical data it's going to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01353-00355800-00355999 confuse the users also just the name i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01354-00356000-00356127 guess technical data
GOrrHcg7UdU-01355-00356128-00356358 could refer to technical data what if
GOrrHcg7UdU-01356-00356359-00356487 you're doing a process about
GOrrHcg7UdU-01357-00356488-00356630 the environment in your city maybe
GOrrHcg7UdU-01358-00356631-00356758 people are going to understand technical
GOrrHcg7UdU-01359-00356759-00356943 data as technical data
GOrrHcg7UdU-01360-00356944-00357206 about the city environmental processes
GOrrHcg7UdU-01361-00357207-00357343 or something so i think the name in
GOrrHcg7UdU-01362-00357344-00357510 itself is already an issue maybe
GOrrHcg7UdU-01363-00357511-00357743 metadata was actually a better name
GOrrHcg7UdU-01364-00357744-00357982 but in itself it's maybe not not a good
GOrrHcg7UdU-01365-00357983-00358287 solution to have it as a tab at all
GOrrHcg7UdU-01366-00358288-00358599 uh there are also questions
GOrrHcg7UdU-01367-00358600-00358910 yeah they were in general i think uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01368-00358911-00359095 how do we make the process landing page
GOrrHcg7UdU-01369-00359096-00359247 clearer more contrasted
GOrrHcg7UdU-01370-00359248-00359551 between the tags the images the timeline
GOrrHcg7UdU-01371-00359552-00359630 the buttons
GOrrHcg7UdU-01372-00359631-00359847 i think there's there's some improvement
GOrrHcg7UdU-01373-00359848-00359934 that could be made
GOrrHcg7UdU-01374-00359935-00360319 that's some things we discussed um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01375-00360320-00360599 yeah and the items that we didn't get to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01376-00360600-00360743 talk about because they're
GOrrHcg7UdU-01377-00360744-00360943 they were not on the on the designs uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01378-00360944-00361127 so the maps i think yeah great point
GOrrHcg7UdU-01379-00361128-00361247 that the maps can be
GOrrHcg7UdU-01380-00361248-00361527 improved a lot uh i would add also the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01381-00361528-00361767 forms that people fill in to either
GOrrHcg7UdU-01382-00361768-00362134 i don't know like fill in a survey or
GOrrHcg7UdU-01383-00362135-00362343 write a proposal so in general there's
GOrrHcg7UdU-01384-00362344-00362510 lots of forms on this team
GOrrHcg7UdU-01385-00362511-00362710 could be improved in a lot of ways to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01386-00362711-00362943 make it more easier to add pictures
GOrrHcg7UdU-01387-00362944-00363358 to uh input a position on the map
GOrrHcg7UdU-01388-00363359-00363551 uh to make it more intuitive like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01389-00363552-00363767 intuitive as well if a proposal doesn't
GOrrHcg7UdU-01390-00363768-00363878 have enough characters
GOrrHcg7UdU-01391-00363879-00364095 or uh doesn't have a capital letter
GOrrHcg7UdU-01392-00364096-00364247 these are still things that are supposed
GOrrHcg7UdU-01393-00364248-00364399 to make the proposal's quality better
GOrrHcg7UdU-01394-00364400-00364582 but end up confusing the user and i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01395-00364583-00364639 think
GOrrHcg7UdU-01396-00364640-00364975 they probably it takes tiny improvements
GOrrHcg7UdU-01397-00364976-00365143 to make it less frustrating for the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01398-00365144-00365303 users we usually click and see their
GOrrHcg7UdU-01399-00365304-00365447 proposals rejected
GOrrHcg7UdU-01400-00365448-00365654 over and over again or don't manage to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01401-00365655-00365830 attach an image or
GOrrHcg7UdU-01402-00365831-00365991 so these are things that we would like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01403-00365992-00366151 to discuss maybe a bit more even with
GOrrHcg7UdU-01404-00366152-00366254 smaller parts
GOrrHcg7UdU-01405-00366255-00366406 but they're really crucial parts because
GOrrHcg7UdU-01406-00366407-00366582 the users um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01407-00366583-00366719 yeah that's basically what they do when
GOrrHcg7UdU-01408-00366720-00367063 they come on the platform
GOrrHcg7UdU-01409-00367064-00367503 yes yeah i think that was most
GOrrHcg7UdU-01410-00367504-00367903 most what we said
GOrrHcg7UdU-01411-00367904-00368223 thank you pierre okay let's go with the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01412-00368224-00368334 last group
GOrrHcg7UdU-01413-00368335-00368719 number five
GOrrHcg7UdU-01414-00368720-00370463 the facilitator of this group
GOrrHcg7UdU-01415-00370464-00370887 welcome hi um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01416-00370888-00371519 well i'll get straight to the point
GOrrHcg7UdU-01417-00371520-00371727 okay first we want to congratulate you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01418-00371728-00371910 with how you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01419-00371911-00372167 redesigned the stats at the bottom of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01420-00372168-00372463 the process page
GOrrHcg7UdU-01421-00372464-00372799 they really stand out and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01422-00372800-00373063 right now they're kind of a bit boring
GOrrHcg7UdU-01423-00373064-00373134 and they should
GOrrHcg7UdU-01424-00373135-00373575 like be more lively um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01425-00373576-00373943 yeah and and highlight that um it's cool
GOrrHcg7UdU-01426-00373944-00374078 to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01427-00374079-00374391 distinguish somehow um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01428-00374392-00374743 which type of card is each card since
GOrrHcg7UdU-01429-00374744-00374815 it's a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01430-00374816-00375119 very reused element um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01431-00375120-00375406 there's a case where uh you have like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01432-00375407-00375510 proposal
GOrrHcg7UdU-01433-00375511-00375847 uh at the top of the card and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01434-00375848-00376382 well it's really useful um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01435-00376383-00376702 secondly well we follow them the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01436-00376703-00376799 questions that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01437-00376800-00377119 um that you proposed
GOrrHcg7UdU-01438-00377120-00377487 and they're good questions um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01439-00377488-00377823 okay uh we think um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01440-00377824-00378134 that most of these issues you detected
GOrrHcg7UdU-01441-00378135-00378487 are very correctly addressed
GOrrHcg7UdU-01442-00378488-00378854 um we just have two notes
GOrrHcg7UdU-01443-00378855-00379175 which are that um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01444-00379176-00379534 uh the process phases card that um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01445-00379535-00379854 right now currently it it is displayed
GOrrHcg7UdU-01446-00379855-00380015 in the process banner
GOrrHcg7UdU-01447-00380016-00380367 at the top of the process page
GOrrHcg7UdU-01448-00380368-00380623 and now it has its own card in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01449-00380624-00380847 process in the page body
GOrrHcg7UdU-01450-00380848-00381206 um and we we were wondering if
GOrrHcg7UdU-01451-00381207-00381415 um it should be visible in all the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01452-00381416-00381591 components of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01453-00381592-00381863 the process including the technical data
GOrrHcg7UdU-01454-00381864-00381943 page
GOrrHcg7UdU-01455-00381944-00382230 um which is the the one we didn't see it
GOrrHcg7UdU-01456-00382231-00382502 in
GOrrHcg7UdU-01457-00382503-00382919 then we really like the action buttons
GOrrHcg7UdU-01458-00382920-00383095 and the progress bars
GOrrHcg7UdU-01459-00383096-00383454 in the initiatives card and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01460-00383455-00383639 well i don't know if it's an initiatives
GOrrHcg7UdU-01461-00383640-00383767 card but um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01462-00383768-00384006 it would be really cool to use those
GOrrHcg7UdU-01463-00384007-00384247 call to action buttons more
GOrrHcg7UdU-01464-00384248-00384591 um because it's it's an attractive
GOrrHcg7UdU-01465-00384592-00384799 feature
GOrrHcg7UdU-01466-00384800-00385110 in the cards that may capture users
GOrrHcg7UdU-01467-00385111-00385263 attention and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01468-00385264-00385582 lead them to participate more
GOrrHcg7UdU-01469-00385583-00385958 um okay uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01470-00385959-00386278 and then we have a lot of um comments
GOrrHcg7UdU-01471-00386279-00386351 that uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01472-00386352-00386719 maybe are not in scope but anyway i will
GOrrHcg7UdU-01473-00386720-00387095 share them with you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01474-00387096-00387519 well we um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01475-00387520-00387871 as a developer
GOrrHcg7UdU-01476-00387872-00388254 there is much to do in our
GOrrHcg7UdU-01477-00388255-00388591 opinion um to improve
GOrrHcg7UdU-01478-00388592-00388895 the um and make it easier for
GOrrHcg7UdU-01479-00388896-00389191 developers to customize styles for the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01480-00389192-00389423 cdm instances right now there are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01481-00389424-00389967 some issues that lead to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01482-00389968-00390278 lots of time wasted into
GOrrHcg7UdU-01483-00390279-00390615 just guessing uh how a change will
GOrrHcg7UdU-01484-00390616-00390678 affect
GOrrHcg7UdU-01485-00390679-00391047 the overall user interface like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01486-00391048-00391423 regarding colors and shapes and such
GOrrHcg7UdU-01487-00391424-00391854 so it would be
GOrrHcg7UdU-01488-00391855-00392110 it would be cool to organize that i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01489-00392111-00392175 think that's
GOrrHcg7UdU-01490-00392176-00392487 another point at the bottom of it but
GOrrHcg7UdU-01491-00392488-00392599 yeah
GOrrHcg7UdU-01492-00392600-00392991 maybe focus on making uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01493-00392992-00393319 the code easier to customize
GOrrHcg7UdU-01494-00393320-00393630 and and improve um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01495-00393631-00393982 ui and ux guidelines so that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01496-00393983-00394351 when developers are making a new feature
GOrrHcg7UdU-01497-00394352-00394615 they know exactly which graphic elements
GOrrHcg7UdU-01498-00394616-00394887 to use
GOrrHcg7UdU-01499-00394888-00395191 because sometimes maybe they are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01500-00395192-00395567 choosing a card to display content that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01501-00395568-00395887 would be better in another kind of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01502-00395888-00396206 ui element and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01503-00396207-00396447 and more importantly like make my
GOrrHcg7UdU-01504-00396448-00396606 maintainers of the code
GOrrHcg7UdU-01505-00396607-00396839 aware of these guidelines so that they
GOrrHcg7UdU-01506-00396840-00396982 can request
GOrrHcg7UdU-01507-00396983-00397287 developers to follow them um so that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01508-00397288-00397639 they can integrate the changes and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01509-00397640-00398127 and the cdm still has that consistency
GOrrHcg7UdU-01510-00398128-00398510 um and yeah there's another element
GOrrHcg7UdU-01511-00398511-00398782 which was not addressed um which are the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01512-00398783-00398839 header
GOrrHcg7UdU-01513-00398840-00399175 and footer of the page um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01514-00399176-00399382 but i think many people mentioned that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01515-00399383-00399582 already um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01516-00399583-00400054 not the footer but it's not
GOrrHcg7UdU-01517-00400055-00400302 really responsive in some cases and it
GOrrHcg7UdU-01518-00400303-00400406 would be
GOrrHcg7UdU-01519-00400407-00400727 cool to have maybe to make a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01520-00400728-00400991 few proposals of how it could be
GOrrHcg7UdU-01521-00400992-00401239 improved
GOrrHcg7UdU-01522-00401240-00401671 um and yeah um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01523-00401672-00402071 then another way well um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01524-00402072-00402382 another proposal we have is that um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01525-00402383-00402687 for cards that include um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01526-00402688-00403151 that can have images um that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01527-00403152-00403543 somehow the users
GOrrHcg7UdU-01528-00403544-00403775 may choose an icon instead of an image
GOrrHcg7UdU-01529-00403776-00403910 to represent
GOrrHcg7UdU-01530-00403911-00404334 what they are creating because
GOrrHcg7UdU-01531-00404335-00404591 there are lots of proposals which are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01532-00404592-00404854 can be really abstract and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01533-00404855-00405063 it's hard to find an image to represent
GOrrHcg7UdU-01534-00405064-00405206 them but maybe
GOrrHcg7UdU-01535-00405207-00405502 um with an icon you could have like a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01536-00405503-00405654 better visual map seeing
GOrrHcg7UdU-01537-00405655-00406006 lots of cards and just like you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01538-00406007-00406343 you can already guess that uh if a card
GOrrHcg7UdU-01539-00406344-00406758 has a a tree uh an icon of a tree
GOrrHcg7UdU-01540-00406759-00407071 it's relating to environment or climate
GOrrHcg7UdU-01541-00407072-00407127 or
GOrrHcg7UdU-01542-00407128-00407510 plans or whatever um and yeah it would
GOrrHcg7UdU-01543-00407511-00407567 aid
GOrrHcg7UdU-01544-00407568-00408087 like visual navigation um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01545-00408088-00408430 and other uh areas and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01546-00408431-00408791 problems we would like to address next
GOrrHcg7UdU-01547-00408792-00409102 is rethink some ux journeys
GOrrHcg7UdU-01548-00409103-00409510 for instance um the journey of joining a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01549-00409511-00409558 meeting
GOrrHcg7UdU-01550-00409559-00409830 is is a bit confusing right now it's not
GOrrHcg7UdU-01551-00409831-00409943 very clear
GOrrHcg7UdU-01552-00409943-00410174 for some users what they have to do in
GOrrHcg7UdU-01553-00410175-00410359 order to join a meeting i think
GOrrHcg7UdU-01554-00410360-00410695 it's a a small button at the right
GOrrHcg7UdU-01555-00410696-00411022 of the page uh it could be like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01556-00411023-00411326 highlighted so that it's easier
GOrrHcg7UdU-01557-00411327-00411655 and maybe more present like in meetings
GOrrHcg7UdU-01558-00411656-00411839 cards like
GOrrHcg7UdU-01559-00411839-00412255 make this kind of call to action buttons
GOrrHcg7UdU-01560-00412256-00412783 more present in the rest of the site
GOrrHcg7UdU-01561-00412784-00413022 [Music]
GOrrHcg7UdU-01562-00413023-00413326 yeah well what i already said is that um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01563-00413327-00413630 the the styles
GOrrHcg7UdU-01564-00413631-00413943 the css code base could be more
GOrrHcg7UdU-01565-00413943-00414351 organized and documented
GOrrHcg7UdU-01566-00414352-00414695 a big thing another big really big thing
GOrrHcg7UdU-01567-00414696-00414726 that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01568-00414727-00415039 i think is out of scope but it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-01569-00415039-00415366 really important is that the admin
GOrrHcg7UdU-01570-00415367-00415655 could be restyled too there's a lot of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01571-00415656-00415855 information lots of fields
GOrrHcg7UdU-01572-00415856-00416207 that admins can fill in and they
GOrrHcg7UdU-01573-00416208-00416503 it's not it's not at all clear in most
GOrrHcg7UdU-01574-00416504-00416663 cases
GOrrHcg7UdU-01575-00416664-00417087 what content they are changing from
GOrrHcg7UdU-01576-00417088-00417447 from the page and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01577-00417447-00417766 and they have a really huge task um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01578-00417767-00418087 all admins of the cdm i think uh really
GOrrHcg7UdU-01579-00418088-00418222 put a lot of effort
GOrrHcg7UdU-01580-00418223-00418543 um and they deserve uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01581-00418543-00418903 that we improve their user experience
GOrrHcg7UdU-01582-00418904-00419199 their admin experience too
GOrrHcg7UdU-01583-00419200-00419527 and another element um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01584-00419528-00419839 that um was not addressed
GOrrHcg7UdU-01585-00419839-00420214 in these proposals is the conferences
GOrrHcg7UdU-01586-00420215-00420566 space that has some special
GOrrHcg7UdU-01587-00420567-00420879 components or pages i don't know what i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01588-00420880-00420991 would call them
GOrrHcg7UdU-01589-00420992-00421335 um which are like the program uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01590-00421335-00421510 i think that is unique to the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01591-00421512-00421663 conferences
GOrrHcg7UdU-01592-00421664-00422039 space and and it could be improved with
GOrrHcg7UdU-01593-00422039-00422359 some filters too right now i think
GOrrHcg7UdU-01594-00422360-00422775 uh you can only filter per days but
GOrrHcg7UdU-01595-00422776-00423055 that could be there could be some other
GOrrHcg7UdU-01596-00423056-00423303 types of filters
GOrrHcg7UdU-01597-00423304-00423687 and and maybe also there put
GOrrHcg7UdU-01598-00423688-00424031 a button at the right of each meeting
GOrrHcg7UdU-01599-00424032-00424479 to join it directly um and yeah
GOrrHcg7UdU-01600-00424480-00424791 those are our
GOrrHcg7UdU-01601-00424792-00425103 our inputs outputs
GOrrHcg7UdU-01602-00425104-00425439 um i hope i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01603-00425439-00425807 communicated clearly clearly enough
GOrrHcg7UdU-01604-00425808-00426159 thank you great
GOrrHcg7UdU-01605-00426160-00426510 you did a great beta thank you very much
GOrrHcg7UdU-01606-00426512-00426983 uh okay a lot of feedback to digest here
GOrrHcg7UdU-01607-00426984-00427327 thanks everybody for joining us
GOrrHcg7UdU-01608-00427328-00427639 in this first experiment about talking
GOrrHcg7UdU-01609-00427639-00427900 talking about the the design
GOrrHcg7UdU-01610-00427901-00428110 [Music]
GOrrHcg7UdU-01611-00428112-00428479 javier and arnow if you want to join me
GOrrHcg7UdU-01612-00428480-00428807 for this final part i just want to first
GOrrHcg7UdU-01613-00428808-00428895 mention
GOrrHcg7UdU-01614-00428896-00429279 because you can mute
GOrrHcg7UdU-01615-00429280-00429663 things uh i just want to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01616-00429664-00429870 because i didn't mention it in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01617-00429871-00430070 beginning but i think it's worth
GOrrHcg7UdU-01618-00430071-00430391 also saying that alongside with this
GOrrHcg7UdU-01619-00430392-00430510 contract
GOrrHcg7UdU-01620-00430512-00430735 of redesign the general redesign of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01621-00430735-00430999 city we are going to start also at the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01622-00431000-00431070 same time
GOrrHcg7UdU-01623-00431071-00431310 finally the development of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01624-00431312-00431583 progressive web app
GOrrHcg7UdU-01625-00431584-00431855 for the platform also by the end of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01626-00431856-00431999 year so
GOrrHcg7UdU-01627-00432000-00432239 we'll also have time to discuss about
GOrrHcg7UdU-01628-00432239-00432422 these mobile aspects that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01629-00432423-00432775 you were mentioning and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01630-00432776-00433103 yeah i think from the roadmap that's all
GOrrHcg7UdU-01631-00433104-00433183 by my
GOrrHcg7UdU-01632-00433184-00433510 side and i let now
GOrrHcg7UdU-01633-00433512-00433814 javier if he wants to mention uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01634-00433815-00434383 something about the feedback received
GOrrHcg7UdU-01635-00434384-00434727 okay i i just want to say that it's
GOrrHcg7UdU-01636-00434728-00435031 usually scary to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01637-00435032-00435343 present your work and say please
GOrrHcg7UdU-01638-00435343-00435607 criticize it
GOrrHcg7UdU-01639-00435608-00435991 but so 26
GOrrHcg7UdU-01640-00435992-00436463 uh an audience of international people
GOrrHcg7UdU-01641-00436464-00436975 20 attendance was terrifying
GOrrHcg7UdU-01642-00436976-00437310 but i'm really happy with the 52 world
GOrrHcg7UdU-01643-00437312-00437599 great very constructive feedback and as
GOrrHcg7UdU-01644-00437600-00437655 i
GOrrHcg7UdU-01645-00437656-00438014 as i hated let's keep what it works
GOrrHcg7UdU-01646-00438015-00438255 and let's improve the rest so thank you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01647-00438256-00438335 very much
GOrrHcg7UdU-01648-00438335-00439151 for for being here
GOrrHcg7UdU-01649-00439152-00439455 okay i just do uh just to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01650-00439456-00439695 close the session i will appreciate if
GOrrHcg7UdU-01651-00439696-00439831 anyone can
GOrrHcg7UdU-01652-00439832-00440183 switch on the camera and we can see
GOrrHcg7UdU-01653-00440184-00440366 all the people who is in the meeting
GOrrHcg7UdU-01654-00440367-00440591 just to say
GOrrHcg7UdU-01655-00440592-00440966 hello and goodbye but uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01656-00440967-00441431 i would like to say you that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01657-00441432-00441566 yeah as i said in the beginning we're
GOrrHcg7UdU-01658-00441567-00441895 gonna have more meetings like this
GOrrHcg7UdU-01659-00441896-00442199 during the following month and we
GOrrHcg7UdU-01660-00442200-00442559 have a permanent space on metadata and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01661-00442560-00442799 we expect that we continue all the all
GOrrHcg7UdU-01662-00442800-00442983 the discussions that we are having here
GOrrHcg7UdU-01663-00442984-00443343 in in
GOrrHcg7UdU-01664-00443343-00443527 the nature and the new generations are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01665-00443528-00443775 here too um
GOrrHcg7UdU-01666-00443776-00444063 and yes we expect that we have to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01667-00444064-00444135 imagine
GOrrHcg7UdU-01668-00444135-00444479 how we can uh follow the this model that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01669-00444480-00444527 we have
GOrrHcg7UdU-01670-00444528-00444735 invested in from the beginning this
GOrrHcg7UdU-01671-00444735-00445014 community doing model of development
GOrrHcg7UdU-01672-00445015-00445255 and how we can keep alive these
GOrrHcg7UdU-01673-00445256-00445414 conversations and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01674-00445415-00445831 on on meta deciding and also
GOrrHcg7UdU-01675-00445832-00446207 as carol said before we are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01676-00446208-00446375 from the from the city of barcelona from
GOrrHcg7UdU-01677-00446376-00446527 barcelona we are having
GOrrHcg7UdU-01678-00446528-00446847 we are imagining how we can put more
GOrrHcg7UdU-01679-00446847-00446959 resources in
GOrrHcg7UdU-01680-00446960-00447310 in the project not just in in the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01681-00447312-00447735 in a progressive web app also in in
GOrrHcg7UdU-01682-00447735-00448055 investing on the redesign of
GOrrHcg7UdU-01683-00448056-00448318 of of the cd on the front end but also
GOrrHcg7UdU-01684-00448319-00448470 on the back end on the administration
GOrrHcg7UdU-01685-00448471-00448543 panel as
GOrrHcg7UdU-01686-00448543-00448839 where i was uh was commenting this is a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01687-00448839-00448895 uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01688-00448896-00449175 this is on the scope of the the future
GOrrHcg7UdU-01689-00449176-00449263 uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01690-00449264-00449463 public procurement that we are having
GOrrHcg7UdU-01691-00449464-00449679 here in in barcelona
GOrrHcg7UdU-01692-00449680-00450022 uh and just to announce that the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01693-00450023-00450399 the 22nd of april
GOrrHcg7UdU-01694-00450400-00450703 we're gonna have a specific uh meeting
GOrrHcg7UdU-01695-00450704-00450959 this is gonna be a physical and digital
GOrrHcg7UdU-01696-00450960-00451127 meeting
GOrrHcg7UdU-01697-00451128-00451295 we are sorry because this meeting gonna
GOrrHcg7UdU-01698-00451296-00451559 be in in spanish but it's gonna be in a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01699-00451560-00451783 specific meeting about the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01700-00451784-00452135 the the electronic voting system that we
GOrrHcg7UdU-01701-00452135-00452166 are
GOrrHcg7UdU-01702-00452167-00452455 developing on the cdm and we are just on
GOrrHcg7UdU-01703-00452456-00452518 the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01704-00452519-00452895 on the final steps uh just to have a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01705-00452896-00453207 secure and encrypted system to vote on
GOrrHcg7UdU-01706-00453208-00453295 the cdm
GOrrHcg7UdU-01707-00453296-00453583 which uh which are a very amazing moment
GOrrHcg7UdU-01708-00453584-00453631 of the
GOrrHcg7UdU-01709-00453632-00453975 of the project uh and we're gonna have a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01710-00453976-00454063 discussion
GOrrHcg7UdU-01711-00454064-00454470 around that uh 22 of april
GOrrHcg7UdU-01712-00454471-00454799 at 11 in the morning and
GOrrHcg7UdU-01713-00454800-00455127 uh we're gonna uh send you the the next
GOrrHcg7UdU-01714-00455128-00455214 uh
GOrrHcg7UdU-01715-00455215-00455495 the next uh meetings it has been a
GOrrHcg7UdU-01716-00455496-00455766 pleasure to have you here and to see you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01717-00455767-00456135 here this first uh yeah first
GOrrHcg7UdU-01718-00456135-00456655 international uh meeting and we invite
GOrrHcg7UdU-01719-00456656-00456727 you to give
GOrrHcg7UdU-01720-00456728-00457022 uh feedback on the on the on the meeting
GOrrHcg7UdU-01721-00457023-00457166 on metadata
GOrrHcg7UdU-01722-00457167-00457470 in in how we can improve these meetings
GOrrHcg7UdU-01723-00457471-00457566 how we can
GOrrHcg7UdU-01724-00457567-00457839 yeah proceed in and to have better
GOrrHcg7UdU-01725-00457839-00457935 sessions
GOrrHcg7UdU-01726-00457935-00458214 as you know we are imagine how we can
GOrrHcg7UdU-01727-00458215-00458303 integrate
GOrrHcg7UdU-01728-00458304-00458695 with other open source technologies that
GOrrHcg7UdU-01729-00458696-00458935 improve also the the experience when we
GOrrHcg7UdU-01730-00458935-00459231 are collecting ideas and we are sharing
GOrrHcg7UdU-01731-00459232-00459559 uh yes contents and ideas etc
GOrrHcg7UdU-01732-00459560-00459966 and yes let's let's try and let's try to
GOrrHcg7UdU-01733-00459967-00460055 imagine how we
GOrrHcg7UdU-01734-00460056-00460399 gonna keep doing that thank you and see
GOrrHcg7UdU-01735-00460400-00460447 you
GOrrHcg7UdU-01736-00460447-00460991 the next time
GOrrHcg7UdU-01737-00460992-00461303 thanks everyone
GOrrHcg7UdU-01738-00461304-00461687 bye bye thank you bye
GOrrHcg7UdU-01739-00461688-00462083 bye
GOrrHcg7UdU-01740-00462084-00464039 bye
GOrrHcg7UdU-01741-00464039-00464247 you
GOKJuJeLdcu-00000-00000019-00000364 the home front of the United States in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00001-00000365-00000617 World War two supported the war effort
GOKJuJeLdcu-00002-00000618-00000902 in many ways including a wide range of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00003-00000902-00001133 volunteer efforts and submitting to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00004-00001134-00001349 government managed rationing and price
GOKJuJeLdcu-00005-00001350-00001732 controls there was a general feeling of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00006-00001734-00001973 agreement that the sacrifices were for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00007-00001973-00002258 the national good for the duration of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00008-00002259-00002666 the war the labor market changed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00009-00002667-00002954 radically peacetime conflicts with
GOKJuJeLdcu-00010-00002955-00003175 respect to race and labor took on a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00011-00003176-00003397 special dimension because of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00012-00003398-00003715 pressure for national unity the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00013-00003717-00003983 Hollywood film industry was important
GOKJuJeLdcu-00014-00003984-00004334 for propaganda every aspect of life from
GOKJuJeLdcu-00015-00004335-00004610 politics to personal savings changed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00016-00004611-00004970 when put on a wartime footing this was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00017-00004971-00005236 achieved by tens of millions of workers
GOKJuJeLdcu-00018-00005237-00005461 moving from low to high productivity
GOKJuJeLdcu-00019-00005462-00005888 jobs in industrial centers millions of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00020-00005889-00006200 students retirees housewives and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00021-00006201-00006460 unemployed moved into the active labor
GOKJuJeLdcu-00022-00006461-00006784 force the hours they had to work
GOKJuJeLdcu-00023-00006786-00007021 increased dramatically as time for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00024-00007022-00007384 leisure activities declined sharply
GOKJuJeLdcu-00025-00007384-00007694 gasoline meat and clothing were tightly
GOKJuJeLdcu-00026-00007695-00008030 rationed most families were allocated
GOKJuJeLdcu-00027-00008031-00008453 three u.s. gallons 11 L 2.5 imp gal of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00028-00008454-00008728 gasoline a week which sharply curtailed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00029-00008729-00009106 driving for any purpose production of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00030-00009107-00009449 most durable goods like cars new housing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00031-00009450-00009739 vacuum cleaners and kitchen appliances
GOKJuJeLdcu-00032-00009740-00010052 was banned until the war ended in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00033-00010053-00010337 industrial areas housing was in short
GOKJuJeLdcu-00034-00010338-00010601 supply as people doubled up and lived in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00035-00010602-00010988 cramped quarters prices and wages were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00036-00010989-00011285 controlled Americans saved a high
GOKJuJeLdcu-00037-00011286-00011537 portion of their incomes which led to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00038-00011538-00012269 renewed growth after the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00039-00012270-00012940 topic controls and taxes
GOKJuJeLdcu-00040-00012941-00013210 federal tax policy was highly
GOKJuJeLdcu-00041-00013211-00013416 contentious during the war with
GOKJuJeLdcu-00042-00013418-00013711 President Franklin D Roosevelt opposing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00043-00013712-00014028 a conservative coalition in Congress
GOKJuJeLdcu-00044-00014029-00014319 however both sides agreed on the need
GOKJuJeLdcu-00045-00014321-00014557 for high taxes along with heavy
GOKJuJeLdcu-00046-00014558-00014782 borrowing to pay for the war top
GOKJuJeLdcu-00047-00014783-00015061 marginal tax rates ranged from 81
GOKJuJeLdcu-00048-00015062-00015369 percent to 94 percent for the duration
GOKJuJeLdcu-00049-00015371-00015625 of the war and the income level subject
GOKJuJeLdcu-00050-00015626-00015856 to the highest rate was lowered from 5
GOKJuJeLdcu-00051-00015857-00016330 million dollars to $200,000 Roosevelt
GOKJuJeLdcu-00052-00016331-00016770 tried unsuccessfully by executive order
GOKJuJeLdcu-00053-00016771-00017182 9250 to impose a 100 percent surtax on
GOKJuJeLdcu-00054-00017183-00017617 after-tax incomes over $25,000 equal to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00055-00017618-00018325 roughly 360 1971 dollars today however
GOKJuJeLdcu-00056-00018326-00018631 Roosevelt did manage to impose this cap
GOKJuJeLdcu-00057-00018632-00018913 on executive pay in corporations with
GOKJuJeLdcu-00058-00018914-00019255 government contracts Congress also
GOKJuJeLdcu-00059-00019256-00019525 enlarged the tax base by lowering the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00060-00019526-00019780 minimum income to pay taxes and by
GOKJuJeLdcu-00061-00019781-00020017 reducing personal exemptions and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00062-00020018-00020503 deductions by 1944 nearly every employed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00063-00020504-00020782 person was paying federal income taxes
GOKJuJeLdcu-00064-00020783-00021127 compared to 10 percent in 1940 many
GOKJuJeLdcu-00065-00021128-00021469 controls were put on the economy the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00066-00021470-00021700 most important were price controls
GOKJuJeLdcu-00067-00021701-00021988 imposed on most products and monitored
GOKJuJeLdcu-00068-00021989-00022308 by the office of Price Administration
GOKJuJeLdcu-00069-00022309-00022687 wages were also controlled corporations
GOKJuJeLdcu-00070-00022688-00022978 dealt with numerous agencies especially
GOKJuJeLdcu-00071-00022979-00023319 the war production board WPB and the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00072-00023320-00023554 in navy departments which had the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00073-00023555-00023767 purchasing power and priorities that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00074-00023768-00024088 largely reshaped and expanded industrial
GOKJuJeLdcu-00075-00024089-00024556 production in 1942 a rationing system
GOKJuJeLdcu-00076-00024557-00024826 was begun to guarantee minimum amounts
GOKJuJeLdcu-00077-00024827-00025066 of necessities to everyone especially
GOKJuJeLdcu-00078-00025067-00025477 poor people and prevent inflation tires
GOKJuJeLdcu-00079-00025478-00025734 were the first item to be rationed in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00080-00025735-00025933 January 1942
GOKJuJeLdcu-00081-00025933-00026178 because supplies of natural rubber were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00082-00026179-00026333 interrupted
GOKJuJeLdcu-00083-00026333-00026622 gasoline rationing proved an even better
GOKJuJeLdcu-00084-00026623-00026966 way to allocate scarce rubber in June
GOKJuJeLdcu-00085-00026967-00027312 1942 the combined food board was set up
GOKJuJeLdcu-00086-00027313-00027573 to coordinate the worldwide supply of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00087-00027574-00027789 food to the Allies with special
GOKJuJeLdcu-00088-00027789-00028023 attention to flows from the US and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00089-00028024-00028495 Canada to Britain by 1943 one needed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00090-00028497-00028739 government-issued ration coupons to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00091-00028741-00029097 purchase coffee sugar meat cheese butter
GOKJuJeLdcu-00092-00029098-00029483 lard margarine canned foods dried fruits
GOKJuJeLdcu-00093-00029485-00029925 jam gasoline bicycles fuel oil clothing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00094-00029926-00030270 silk or nylon stockings shoes and many
GOKJuJeLdcu-00095-00030270-00030705 other items some items like automobiles
GOKJuJeLdcu-00096-00030706-00031010 and home appliances were no longer made
GOKJuJeLdcu-00097-00031011-00031323 the rationing system did not apply to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00098-00031324-00031617 used goods like clothes or cars but they
GOKJuJeLdcu-00099-00031618-00031833 became more expensive since they were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00100-00031833-00032262 not subject to price controls to get a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00101-00032263-00032529 classification and a book of rationing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00102-00032530-00032787 stamps one had to appear before a local
GOKJuJeLdcu-00103-00032788-00033132 rationing board each person in a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00104-00033133-00033338 household received a ration book
GOKJuJeLdcu-00105-00033339-00033702 including babies and children when
GOKJuJeLdcu-00106-00033703-00033957 purchasing gasoline a driver had to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00107-00033958-00034230 present a gas card along with a ration
GOKJuJeLdcu-00108-00034231-00034608 Birkin cash ration stamps were valid
GOKJuJeLdcu-00109-00034609-00034851 only for a set period to forestall
GOKJuJeLdcu-00110-00034852-00035250 hoarding all forms of automobile racing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00111-00035251-00035499 were banned including the Indianapolis
GOKJuJeLdcu-00112-00035500-00035906 500 which was cancelled from 1942 to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00113-00035907-00036814 1945 sightseeing driving was banned
GOKJuJeLdcu-00114-00036815-00037474 topic personal savings
GOKJuJeLdcu-00115-00037475-00037760 personal income was at an all-time high
GOKJuJeLdcu-00116-00037761-00037979 and more dollars were chasing fewer
GOKJuJeLdcu-00117-00037980-00038372 goods to purchase this was a recipe for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00118-00038373-00038588 economic disaster that was largely
GOKJuJeLdcu-00119-00038589-00038915 avoided because Americans persuaded
GOKJuJeLdcu-00120-00038916-00039218 daily by their government to do so were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00121-00039219-00039434 also saving money at an all-time high
GOKJuJeLdcu-00122-00039435-00039752 rate mostly in war bonds but also in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00123-00039753-00040013 private savings accounts and insurance
GOKJuJeLdcu-00124-00040014-00040397 policies consumer saving was strongly
GOKJuJeLdcu-00125-00040398-00040637 encouraged through investment in war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00126-00040638-00040897 bonds that would mature after the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00127-00040898-00041240 most workers had an automatic payroll
GOKJuJeLdcu-00128-00041241-00041504 deduction children collected savings
GOKJuJeLdcu-00129-00041505-00041726 stamps until they had enough to buy a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00130-00041727-00042038 bond bond rallies were held throughout
GOKJuJeLdcu-00131-00042039-00042392 the US with famous celebrities usually
GOKJuJeLdcu-00132-00042393-00042680 Hollywood film stars to enhance the bond
GOKJuJeLdcu-00133-00042681-00043076 advertising effectiveness several stars
GOKJuJeLdcu-00134-00043077-00043343 were responsible for personal appearance
GOKJuJeLdcu-00135-00043344-00043586 tours that netted multiple millions of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00136-00043587-00043907 dollars in bond pledges an astonishing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00137-00043908-00044366 amount in 1943 the public paid three
GOKJuJeLdcu-00138-00044367-00044630 quarters of the face value of a war bond
GOKJuJeLdcu-00139-00044631-00044876 and received the full face value back
GOKJuJeLdcu-00140-00044877-00045269 after a set number of years this shifted
GOKJuJeLdcu-00141-00045270-00045479 their consumption from the water post
GOKJuJeLdcu-00142-00045480-00045875 war and allowed over 40% of GDP to go to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00143-00045876-00046094 military spending with moderate
GOKJuJeLdcu-00144-00046095-00046463 inflation Americans were challenged to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00145-00046464-00046850 put at least 10% of every paycheck into
GOKJuJeLdcu-00146-00046851-00047261 bonds compliance was very high with
GOKJuJeLdcu-00147-00047262-00047507 entire factories of workers earning a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00148-00047508-00047921 special Minuteman flag to fly over their
GOKJuJeLdcu-00149-00047922-00048257 plant if all workers belong to the 10%
GOKJuJeLdcu-00150-00048258-00048614 club there were seven major war loan
GOKJuJeLdcu-00151-00048615-00049449 drives all of which exceeded their goals
GOKJuJeLdcu-00152-00049450-00049988 topic labor
GOKJuJeLdcu-00153-00049989-00050275 the unemployment problem ended with the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00154-00050276-00050570 mobilization for war out of a labor
GOKJuJeLdcu-00155-00050571-00050927 force of 54 million unemployment fell in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00156-00050928-00051335 half from 7.7 million in spring 1940
GOKJuJeLdcu-00157-00051336-00051580 when the first accurate statistics were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00158-00051582-00052037 compiled to 3.4 million in fall 1941 and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00159-00052038-00052349 fell in half again to 1.5 million in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00160-00052350-00052738 fall 1942 hitting an all-time low of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00161-00052739-00053230 700,000 in fall 1944 there was a growing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00162-00053232-00053528 labor shortage in war centers with sound
GOKJuJeLdcu-00163-00053529-00053779 trucks going street by street begging
GOKJuJeLdcu-00164-00053780-00054203 for people to apply for war jobs greater
GOKJuJeLdcu-00165-00054204-00054482 wartime production created millions of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00166-00054483-00054730 new jobs while the draft reduced the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00167-00054732-00054932 number of young men available for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00168-00054933-00055307 civilian jobs so great was the demand
GOKJuJeLdcu-00169-00055308-00055523 for labor that millions of retired
GOKJuJeLdcu-00170-00055524-00055829 people housewives and students entered
GOKJuJeLdcu-00171-00055829-00056126 the labor force lured by patriotism and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00172-00056127-00056504 wages the shortage of grocery clerks
GOKJuJeLdcu-00173-00056504-00056783 caused retailers to convert from service
GOKJuJeLdcu-00174-00056784-00057161 at the counter to self-service with new
GOKJuJeLdcu-00175-00057162-00057404 shorter women Clark's replacing taller
GOKJuJeLdcu-00176-00057404-00057689 men some stores lowered shelves to 5
GOKJuJeLdcu-00177-00057690-00058196 feet 8 inches 1.7 3 meters before the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00178-00058197-00058457 war most groceries drycleaners
GOKJuJeLdcu-00179-00058458-00058757 drugstores and department stores offered
GOKJuJeLdcu-00180-00058758-00059141 home delivery service the labor shortage
GOKJuJeLdcu-00181-00059141-00059387 and gasoline and tire rationing caused
GOKJuJeLdcu-00182-00059388-00059662 most retailers to stop delivery
GOKJuJeLdcu-00183-00059663-00059996 they found that requiring customers to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00184-00059997-00060229 buy their products in person increased
GOKJuJeLdcu-00185-00060230-00060830 sales
GOKJuJeLdcu-00186-00060832-00061341 topic women
GOKJuJeLdcu-00187-00061341-00061614 women also joined the workforce to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00188-00061615-00061845 replace men who had joined the forces
GOKJuJeLdcu-00189-00061846-00062253 though in fewer numbers Roosevelt stated
GOKJuJeLdcu-00190-00062254-00062499 that the efforts of civilians at home to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00191-00062500-00062700 support the war through personal
GOKJuJeLdcu-00192-00062701-00062964 sacrifice was as critical to winning the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00193-00062965-00063171 war as the efforts of the soldiers
GOKJuJeLdcu-00194-00063172-00063582 themselves Rosie the Riveter became the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00195-00063583-00063761 symbol of women laboring in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00196-00063762-00064047 manufacturing the war effort brought
GOKJuJeLdcu-00197-00064048-00064314 about significant changes in the role of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00198-00064315-00064665 women in society as a whole when the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00199-00064666-00064896 male breadwinner returned wives could
GOKJuJeLdcu-00200-00064897-00065229 stop working at the end of the war most
GOKJuJeLdcu-00201-00065229-00065613 of the munitions making jobs ended many
GOKJuJeLdcu-00202-00065614-00065787 factories were closed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00203-00065788-00066014 others retooled for civilian production
GOKJuJeLdcu-00204-00066015-00066339 in some jobs women were replaced by
GOKJuJeLdcu-00205-00066340-00066587 returning veterans who did not lose
GOKJuJeLdcu-00206-00066588-00066917 seniority because they were in service
GOKJuJeLdcu-00207-00066918-00067241 however the number of women at work in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00208-00067242-00067634 1946 was 87 percent of the number in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00209-00067635-00068058 1944 leaving 13% who lost or quit their
GOKJuJeLdcu-00210-00068059-00068430 jobs many women working in machinery
GOKJuJeLdcu-00211-00068431-00068682 factories and more were taken out of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00212-00068683-00069063 workforce many of these former factory
GOKJuJeLdcu-00213-00069064-00069300 workers found other work at kitchens
GOKJuJeLdcu-00214-00069301-00069789 being teachers etc the table shows the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00215-00069790-00070047 development of the United States labor
GOKJuJeLdcu-00216-00070048-00070509 force by sex during the war years women
GOKJuJeLdcu-00217-00070510-00070770 also took on new roles in sport and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00218-00070771-00071010 entertainment which opened to them as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00219-00071011-00071328 more and more men were drafted the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00220-00071329-00071547 all-american girls professional baseball
GOKJuJeLdcu-00221-00071548-00071634 league
GOKJuJeLdcu-00222-00071635-00072018 AAG PBL was the creation of Chicago Cubs
GOKJuJeLdcu-00223-00072019-00072219 owner Phillip Wrigley who sought
GOKJuJeLdcu-00224-00072220-00072474 alternative ways to expand his baseball
GOKJuJeLdcu-00225-00072475-00072780 franchises top male players left for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00226-00072781-00073290 military service in 1943 he created an
GOKJuJeLdcu-00227-00073291-00073488 eight-team League in small industrial
GOKJuJeLdcu-00228-00073489-00073791 cities around the Great Lakes team names
GOKJuJeLdcu-00229-00073792-00074079 included the Kenosha comets the Rockford
GOKJuJeLdcu-00230-00074080-00074457 peaches and the Fort Wayne daisies night
GOKJuJeLdcu-00231-00074458-00074727 games offered affordable patriotic
GOKJuJeLdcu-00232-00074728-00074976 entertainment to working Americans who
GOKJuJeLdcu-00233-00074977-00075183 had flocked to wartime jobs in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00234-00075184-00075396 Midwest hubs of Chicago and Detroit
GOKJuJeLdcu-00235-00075397-00075651 although better paid than in the pre-war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00236-00075652-00075933 depression most industrial war workers
GOKJuJeLdcu-00237-00075934-00076194 were on gas and tire rationing limiting
GOKJuJeLdcu-00238-00076195-00076443 and to local recreation options the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00239-00076444-00076686 league provided a novelty entertainment
GOKJuJeLdcu-00240-00076687-00076926 of girls who played hardball as well as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00241-00076927-00077157 men executing traditional baseball
GOKJuJeLdcu-00242-00077158-00077442 skills of sliding and double plays while
GOKJuJeLdcu-00243-00077443-00077771 wearing short feminine uniform skirts
GOKJuJeLdcu-00244-00077772-00078102 players as young as 15 were recruited
GOKJuJeLdcu-00245-00078103-00078333 from farm families and urban industrial
GOKJuJeLdcu-00246-00078334-00078657 teams chaperoned on the road and subject
GOKJuJeLdcu-00247-00078658-00078870 to strict rules of behavior that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00248-00078871-00079128 included mandatory makeup and feminine
GOKJuJeLdcu-00249-00079129-00079443 hairstyling no drinking or smoking no
GOKJuJeLdcu-00250-00079444-00079734 swearing no fraternization with men and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00251-00079735-00080046 no wearing pants in public moreover the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00252-00080047-00080406 league only recruited white players fans
GOKJuJeLdcu-00253-00080407-00080646 supported the league to the extent that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00254-00080647-00080907 it continued well past the conclusion of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00255-00080908-00081374 the war lasting through 1953 during the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00256-00081375-00081687 1980s the league was formally inducted
GOKJuJeLdcu-00257-00081688-00081900 into the Baseball Hall of Fame in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00258-00081901-00082170 Cooperstown New York and became the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00259-00082171-00082515 subject of a popular 1994 film called a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00260-00082516-00083137 league of their own
GOKJuJeLdcu-00261-00083138-00083666 topic farming
GOKJuJeLdcu-00262-00083667-00083993 labor shortages were felt in agriculture
GOKJuJeLdcu-00263-00083994-00084227 even though most farmers were given an
GOKJuJeLdcu-00264-00084228-00084569 exemption and few were drafted large
GOKJuJeLdcu-00265-00084570-00084833 numbers volunteered or moved to cities
GOKJuJeLdcu-00266-00084834-00085211 for factory jobs at the same time many
GOKJuJeLdcu-00267-00085212-00085466 agricultural commodities were in greater
GOKJuJeLdcu-00268-00085467-00085691 demand by the military and for the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00269-00085692-00086005 civilian populations of allies
GOKJuJeLdcu-00270-00086006-00086300 production was encouraged and prices and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00271-00086301-00086650 markets were under tight federal control
GOKJuJeLdcu-00272-00086651-00086932 civilians were encouraged to create
GOKJuJeLdcu-00273-00086933-00087302 Victory Gardens farms that were often
GOKJuJeLdcu-00274-00087303-00087671 started in backyards and Lots children
GOKJuJeLdcu-00275-00087672-00087914 were encouraged to help with these farms
GOKJuJeLdcu-00276-00087915-00088256 to the bracero program a vie national
GOKJuJeLdcu-00277-00088257-00088511 labor agreement between Mexico and the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00278-00088512-00089051 US started in 1942 some two hundred and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00279-00089052-00089390 ninety thousand bracer Asst strong arms
GOKJuJeLdcu-00280-00089391-00089738 in Spanish were recruited and contracted
GOKJuJeLdcu-00281-00089739-00090104 to work in the agriculture fields half
GOKJuJeLdcu-00282-00090105-00090461 went to Texas and 20% to the Pacific
GOKJuJeLdcu-00283-00090462-00091082 Northwest between 1942 and 1946 and 425
GOKJuJeLdcu-00284-00091083-00091358 thousand Italian and German prisoners of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00285-00091359-00091643 war were used as farm laborers loggers
GOKJuJeLdcu-00286-00091644-00092039 and cannery workers in Michigan for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00287-00092040-00092306 example the pals accounted for more than
GOKJuJeLdcu-00288-00092307-00092564 one-third of the state's agricultural
GOKJuJeLdcu-00289-00092565-00093439 production and food processing in 1944
GOKJuJeLdcu-00290-00093440-00093973 topic children
GOKJuJeLdcu-00291-00093974-00094219 to help with the need for a larger
GOKJuJeLdcu-00292-00094220-00094447 source of food the nation looked to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00293-00094448-00094782 school-aged children to help on farms
GOKJuJeLdcu-00294-00094783-00095098 schools often had a Victory Garden in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00295-00095099-00095412 vacant parking lots and on roofs
GOKJuJeLdcu-00296-00095413-00095686 children would help on these farms to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00297-00095687-00095859 help with the war effort
GOKJuJeLdcu-00298-00095860-00096276 the slogan grow your own can your own
GOKJuJeLdcu-00299-00096277-00097140 also influence children to help at home
GOKJuJeLdcu-00300-00097141-00097834 topic teenagers with the wars ever
GOKJuJeLdcu-00301-00097835-00098094 increasing need for able-bodied men
GOKJuJeLdcu-00302-00098095-00098376 consuming America's labor force in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00303-00098377-00098743 early 1940s industry turned to teenaged
GOKJuJeLdcu-00304-00098744-00098961 boys and girls to fill in as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00305-00098962-00099373 replacements consequently many states
GOKJuJeLdcu-00306-00099374-00099649 had to change the child labor laws to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00307-00099650-00100006 allow these teenagers to work the laws
GOKJuJeLdcu-00308-00100007-00100342 of patriotism adulthood and money led
GOKJuJeLdcu-00309-00100343-00100585 many youth to drop out of school and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00310-00100586-00101134 take a defense job between 1940 and 1944
GOKJuJeLdcu-00311-00101135-00101407 the number of teenage workers increased
GOKJuJeLdcu-00312-00101408-00101692 by 1.9 million and the number of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00313-00101693-00101959 students in public high schools dropped
GOKJuJeLdcu-00314-00101960-00102429 from 6.6 million in 1940 to 5.6 million
GOKJuJeLdcu-00315-00102430-00102891 in 1944 as a million students and many
GOKJuJeLdcu-00316-00102892-00103643 teachers took jobs
GOKJuJeLdcu-00317-00103644-00104248 topic labor unions
GOKJuJeLdcu-00318-00104249-00104518 the war mobilization changed the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00319-00104519-00104707 relationship of the Congress of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00320-00104708-00105055 Industrial Organizations CIO with both
GOKJuJeLdcu-00321-00105056-00105306 employers and the national government
GOKJuJeLdcu-00322-00105307-00105658 both the CIO and the larger American
GOKJuJeLdcu-00323-00105658-00105982 Federation of Labor AFL grew rapidly in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00324-00105983-00106252 the war years nearly all the unions that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00325-00106253-00106390 belong to the CIO
GOKJuJeLdcu-00326-00106391-00106615 were fully supportive of both the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00327-00106616-00106788 effort and of the Roosevelt
GOKJuJeLdcu-00328-00106789-00107164 administration however the United Mine
GOKJuJeLdcu-00329-00107165-00107449 Workers who had taken an isolationist
GOKJuJeLdcu-00330-00107450-00107680 stand in the years leading up to the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00331-00107681-00107938 and had opposed Roosevelt's re-election
GOKJuJeLdcu-00332-00107939-00108510 in 1940 left the CIO in 1942 the major
GOKJuJeLdcu-00333-00108511-00108793 unions supported a wartime no-strike
GOKJuJeLdcu-00334-00108794-00109042 pledge that aimed to eliminate not only
GOKJuJeLdcu-00335-00109043-00109315 major strikes for new contracts but also
GOKJuJeLdcu-00336-00109316-00109594 the innumerable small strikes called buy
GOKJuJeLdcu-00337-00109595-00109852 shop stewards and local union leadership
GOKJuJeLdcu-00338-00109853-00110221 to protest particular grievances in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00339-00110222-00110518 return for Labor's no-strike pledge the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00340-00110519-00110719 government offered arbitration to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00341-00110720-00110961 determine the wages and other terms of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00342-00110963-00111355 new contracts those procedures produced
GOKJuJeLdcu-00343-00111356-00111607 modest wage increases during the first
GOKJuJeLdcu-00344-00111608-00111844 few years of the war but not enough to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00345-00111845-00112108 keep up with inflation particularly when
GOKJuJeLdcu-00346-00112108-00112279 combined with the slowness of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00347-00112280-00112540 arbitration machinery even though the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00348-00112541-00112777 complaints from union members about the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00349-00112778-00113014 no-strike pledge became louder and more
GOKJuJeLdcu-00350-00113015-00113422 bitter the CIO did not abandon it the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00351-00113423-00113707 Mine Workers by contrast who did not
GOKJuJeLdcu-00352-00113708-00113989 belong to either the AFL or the CIO for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00353-00113990-00114244 much of the war threatened numerous
GOKJuJeLdcu-00354-00114245-00114520 strikes including a successful 12 day
GOKJuJeLdcu-00355-00114521-00114958 strike in 1943 the strikes and threats
GOKJuJeLdcu-00356-00114958-00115219 made mine leader John L Lewis a much
GOKJuJeLdcu-00357-00115220-00115519 hated man and led to legislation hostile
GOKJuJeLdcu-00358-00115520-00115798 to unions all the major unions grew
GOKJuJeLdcu-00359-00115799-00116092 stronger during the war the government
GOKJuJeLdcu-00360-00116093-00116371 put pressure on employers to recognize
GOKJuJeLdcu-00361-00116372-00116650 unions to avoid the sort of turbulent
GOKJuJeLdcu-00362-00116651-00116895 struggles over union recognition of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00363-00116896-00117214 1930s while unions were generally able
GOKJuJeLdcu-00364-00117215-00117421 to obtain maintenance of membership
GOKJuJeLdcu-00365-00117422-00117636 clauses a form of unions
GOKJuJeLdcu-00366-00117638-00117860 security through arbitration and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00367-00117861-00118258 negotiation employers gave workers new
GOKJuJeLdcu-00368-00118258-00118560 untaxed benefits such as vacation time
GOKJuJeLdcu-00369-00118561-00118843 pensions and health insurance which
GOKJuJeLdcu-00370-00118844-00119095 increased real incomes even when wage
GOKJuJeLdcu-00371-00119096-00119464 rates were frozen the wage differential
GOKJuJeLdcu-00372-00119465-00119683 between higher skilled and less skilled
GOKJuJeLdcu-00373-00119683-00119929 workers narrowed and with the enormous
GOKJuJeLdcu-00374-00119930-00120157 increase in overtime for blue-collar
GOKJuJeLdcu-00375-00120158-00120421 wage workers at time-and-a-half pay
GOKJuJeLdcu-00376-00120422-00120718 incomes in working-class households shot
GOKJuJeLdcu-00377-00120719-00120960 up while the salaried middle class lost
GOKJuJeLdcu-00378-00120961-00121372 ground the experience of bargaining on a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00379-00121373-00121654 national basis while restraining local
GOKJuJeLdcu-00380-00121655-00121927 unions from striking also tended to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00381-00121928-00122188 accelerate the trend toward bureaucracy
GOKJuJeLdcu-00382-00122189-00122617 within the larger CIO unions some such
GOKJuJeLdcu-00383-00122618-00122854 as the steel workers had always been
GOKJuJeLdcu-00384-00122855-00123100 centralized organizations in which
GOKJuJeLdcu-00385-00123101-00123394 authority for major decisions resided at
GOKJuJeLdcu-00386-00123395-00123468 the top
GOKJuJeLdcu-00387-00123469-00123904 the UAW by contrast had always been a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00388-00123905-00124204 more grassroots organization but it also
GOKJuJeLdcu-00389-00124205-00124461 started to try to rein in its maverick
GOKJuJeLdcu-00390-00124463-00124819 local leadership during these years the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00391-00124820-00125098 CIO also had to confront deep racial
GOKJuJeLdcu-00392-00125099-00125309 divides in its own membership
GOKJuJeLdcu-00393-00125310-00125596 particularly in the UAW plants in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00394-00125597-00125794 Detroit where white workers sometimes
GOKJuJeLdcu-00395-00125795-00126049 struck to protest the promotion of black
GOKJuJeLdcu-00396-00126050-00126343 workers to production jobs but also in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00397-00126344-00126631 shipyards in Alabama mass transit in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00398-00126632-00126877 Philadelphia and steel plants in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00399-00126878-00126967 Baltimore
GOKJuJeLdcu-00400-00126968-00127372 the CIO leadership particularly those in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00401-00127373-00127621 further left unions such as the packing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00402-00127622-00128002 house workers the UAW the N mu and the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00403-00128003-00128263 Transport Workers undertook serious
GOKJuJeLdcu-00404-00128264-00128503 efforts to suppress hate strikes to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00405-00128504-00128752 educate their membership and to support
GOKJuJeLdcu-00406-00128753-00129019 the Roosevelt administration's tentative
GOKJuJeLdcu-00407-00129020-00129285 efforts to remedy racial discrimination
GOKJuJeLdcu-00408-00129286-00129483 in war industries through the Fair
GOKJuJeLdcu-00409-00129484-00129820 Employment Practices Commission those
GOKJuJeLdcu-00410-00129821-00130099 unions contrasted their relatively bold
GOKJuJeLdcu-00411-00130100-00130315 attack on the problem with the timidity
GOKJuJeLdcu-00412-00130316-00130795 and racism of the AFL the CIO unions
GOKJuJeLdcu-00413-00130796-00130981 were progressive in dealing with
GOKJuJeLdcu-00414-00130982-00131191 gender discrimination in wartime
GOKJuJeLdcu-00415-00131192-00131464 industry which now employed many more
GOKJuJeLdcu-00416-00131465-00131793 women workers in non-traditional jobs
GOKJuJeLdcu-00417-00131794-00132061 unions that had represented large
GOKJuJeLdcu-00418-00132062-00132310 numbers of women workers before the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00419-00132311-00132613 such as the UE Electrical Workers and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00420-00132614-00132892 the food and tobacco workers had fairly
GOKJuJeLdcu-00421-00132893-00133162 good records of fighting discrimination
GOKJuJeLdcu-00422-00133163-00133528 against women most union leaders saw
GOKJuJeLdcu-00423-00133529-00133813 women as temporary wartime replacements
GOKJuJeLdcu-00424-00133814-00134161 for the men in the Armed Forces it was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00425-00134162-00134407 important that the wages of these women
GOKJuJeLdcu-00426-00134408-00134635 be kept high so that the veterans would
GOKJuJeLdcu-00427-00134636-00135313 get high wages
GOKJuJeLdcu-00428-00135314-00136085 topic civilian support for war effort
GOKJuJeLdcu-00429-00136086-00136364 early in the war it became apparent that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00430-00136365-00136571 German u-boats were using the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00431-00136572-00136804 backlighting of coastal cities in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00432-00136805-00137018 eastern seaboard and the south to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00433-00137019-00137420 destroy ships exiting harbors it became
GOKJuJeLdcu-00434-00137421-00137704 the first duties of civilians recruited
GOKJuJeLdcu-00435-00137705-00137963 for local civilian defense to ensure
GOKJuJeLdcu-00436-00137964-00138170 that lights were either r4 thick
GOKJuJeLdcu-00437-00138171-00138547 curtains drawn over all windows at night
GOKJuJeLdcu-00438-00138548-00138869 state guards were reformed for internal
GOKJuJeLdcu-00439-00138870-00139148 security duties to replace the National
GOKJuJeLdcu-00440-00139149-00139409 Guardsmen who were federalized and sent
GOKJuJeLdcu-00441-00139410-00139765 overseas the Civil Air Patrol was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00442-00139766-00139997 established which enrolled civilian
GOKJuJeLdcu-00443-00139998-00140240 spotters in air reconnaissance search
GOKJuJeLdcu-00444-00140241-00140657 and rescue and transport its Coast Guard
GOKJuJeLdcu-00445-00140658-00140878 counterpart the Coast Guard Auxiliary
GOKJuJeLdcu-00446-00140879-00141233 used civilian boats and crews in similar
GOKJuJeLdcu-00447-00141234-00141569 rescue roles towers were built in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00448-00141570-00141833 coastal and border towns and spotters
GOKJuJeLdcu-00449-00141834-00142174 were trained to recognize enemy aircraft
GOKJuJeLdcu-00450-00142175-00142457 blackouts were practiced in every city
GOKJuJeLdcu-00451-00142458-00142814 even those far from the coast all
GOKJuJeLdcu-00452-00142815-00143063 exterior lighting had to be extinguished
GOKJuJeLdcu-00453-00143064-00143333 and blackout curtains placed over
GOKJuJeLdcu-00454-00143334-00143702 windows the main purpose was to remind
GOKJuJeLdcu-00455-00143703-00143936 people that there was a war on and to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00456-00143937-00144185 provide activities that would engage the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00457-00144186-00144434 civil spirit of millions of people not
GOKJuJeLdcu-00458-00144435-00144776 otherwise involved in the war effort in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00459-00144777-00145070 large part this effort was successful
GOKJuJeLdcu-00460-00145071-00145366 sometimes almost to a fault such as the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00461-00145367-00145549 plain states where many dedicated
GOKJuJeLdcu-00462-00145550-00145816 aircraft spotters took up their posts
GOKJuJeLdcu-00463-00145817-00146057 night after night watching the skies in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00464-00146058-00146258 an area of the country that no enemy
GOKJuJeLdcu-00465-00146259-00146491 aircraft of that time could possibly
GOKJuJeLdcu-00466-00146492-00146723 hope to reach the United Service
GOKJuJeLdcu-00467-00146724-00147188 Organizations USO was founded in 1941 in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00468-00147189-00147428 response to a request from President
GOKJuJeLdcu-00469-00147429-00147698 Franklin D Roosevelt to provide morale
GOKJuJeLdcu-00470-00147699-00147983 and recreation services to uniformed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00471-00147984-00148334 military personnel the USO brought
GOKJuJeLdcu-00472-00148335-00148615 together six civilian agencies the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00473-00148616-00148856 Salvation Army Young Men's Christian
GOKJuJeLdcu-00474-00148857-00149144 Association young women's Christian
GOKJuJeLdcu-00475-00149145-00149456 Association National Catholic community
GOKJuJeLdcu-00476-00149457-00149665 servus national travelers aid
GOKJuJeLdcu-00477-00149666-00149897 Association and the National Jewish
GOKJuJeLdcu-00478-00149898-00150173 Welfare Board women volunteered to work
GOKJuJeLdcu-00479-00150174-00150424 for the Red Cross the USO and other
GOKJuJeLdcu-00480-00150425-00150838 agencies other women previously employed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00481-00150839-00151087 only in the home or in traditionally
GOKJuJeLdcu-00482-00151088-00151378 female work took jobs in factories that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00483-00151379-00151622 directly supported the war effort or
GOKJuJeLdcu-00484-00151623-00151876 filled jobs vacated by men who had
GOKJuJeLdcu-00485-00151877-00152249 entered military service enrollment in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00486-00152250-00152486 high schools and colleges plunged as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00487-00152487-00152723 many high school and college students
GOKJuJeLdcu-00488-00152724-00152981 dropped out to take war jobs various
GOKJuJeLdcu-00489-00152982-00153277 items previously discarded were saved
GOKJuJeLdcu-00490-00153278-00153627 after use for what was called recycling
GOKJuJeLdcu-00491-00153628-00153995 years later families were requested to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00492-00153996-00154259 save fat drippings from cooking for use
GOKJuJeLdcu-00493-00154260-00154673 in soap making neighborhood scrapped
GOKJuJeLdcu-00494-00154674-00155041 drives collected scrap copper and brass
GOKJuJeLdcu-00495-00155042-00155413 for use in artillery shells milkweed was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00496-00155414-00155693 harvested by children ostensibly for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00497-00155694-00156271 life jackets
GOKJuJeLdcu-00498-00156272-00156804 topic draft
GOKJuJeLdcu-00499-00156805-00157164 in 1940 Congress passed the first
GOKJuJeLdcu-00500-00157165-00157524 peacetime draft legislation it was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00501-00157525-00158001 renewed by one vote in summer 1941 it
GOKJuJeLdcu-00502-00158002-00158211 involved questions as to who should
GOKJuJeLdcu-00503-00158212-00158470 control the draft the size of the army
GOKJuJeLdcu-00504-00158471-00158865 and the need for deferments the system
GOKJuJeLdcu-00505-00158866-00159078 worked through local draft boards
GOKJuJeLdcu-00506-00159079-00159331 comprising community leaders who were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00507-00159332-00159573 given quotas and then decided how to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00508-00159574-00159912 fill them there was very little draft
GOKJuJeLdcu-00509-00159913-00160149 resistance the nation went from a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00510-00160150-00160357 surplus manpower pool with high
GOKJuJeLdcu-00511-00160358-00160677 unemployment and relief in 1940 to a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00512-00160678-00161106 severe manpower shortage by 1943
GOKJuJeLdcu-00513-00161107-00161403 industry realized that the army urgently
GOKJuJeLdcu-00514-00161404-00161637 desired production of essential war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00515-00161638-00161877 materials and foodstuffs more than
GOKJuJeLdcu-00516-00161878-00162261 soldiers large numbers of soldiers were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00517-00162262-00162537 not used until the invasion of Europe in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00518-00162538-00163168 summer 1944 in 1942-43 the army often
GOKJuJeLdcu-00519-00163169-00163456 transferred soldiers to civilian status
GOKJuJeLdcu-00520-00163457-00163698 in the enlisted Reserve Corps in order
GOKJuJeLdcu-00521-00163699-00164061 to increase production those transferred
GOKJuJeLdcu-00522-00164062-00164277 would return to work in essential
GOKJuJeLdcu-00523-00164278-00164508 industry although they could be recalled
GOKJuJeLdcu-00524-00164509-00164816 to active duty if the army needed them
GOKJuJeLdcu-00525-00164817-00165118 others were discharged if their civilian
GOKJuJeLdcu-00526-00165119-00165382 work was deemed essential there were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00527-00165383-00165648 instances of mass releases of men to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00528-00165649-00165849 increase production in various
GOKJuJeLdcu-00529-00165850-00166176 industries working men who had been
GOKJuJeLdcu-00530-00166177-00166476 classified 4f for otherwise ineligible
GOKJuJeLdcu-00531-00166477-00166764 for the draft took second jobs in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00532-00166765-00166938 figure below an overview of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00533-00166939-00167190 development of the United States labor
GOKJuJeLdcu-00534-00167191-00167487 force the Armed Forces and unemployment
GOKJuJeLdcu-00535-00167488-00167696 during the war years
GOKJuJeLdcu-00536-00167697-00167991 one contentious issue involved the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00537-00167992-00168264 drafting of fathers which was avoided as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00538-00168265-00168657 much as possible the drafting of 18 year
GOKJuJeLdcu-00539-00168658-00168909 olds was desired by the military but
GOKJuJeLdcu-00540-00168910-00169263 vetoed by public opinion racial
GOKJuJeLdcu-00541-00169264-00169524 minorities were drafted at the same rate
GOKJuJeLdcu-00542-00169525-00169611 as whites
GOKJuJeLdcu-00543-00169612-00169846 and were paid the same but blacks were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00544-00169847-00170162 kept in all-black units the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00545-00170163-00170394 experience of World War one regarding
GOKJuJeLdcu-00546-00170395-00170686 men needed by industry was particularly
GOKJuJeLdcu-00547-00170687-00171038 unsatisfactory to many skilled mechanics
GOKJuJeLdcu-00548-00171039-00171314 and engineers became privates there is a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00549-00171315-00171587 possibly apocryphal story of a banker
GOKJuJeLdcu-00550-00171588-00171794 assigned as a baker due to a clerical
GOKJuJeLdcu-00551-00171795-00171872 error
GOKJuJeLdcu-00552-00171873-00172131 noted by historian Lee Kennett in his
GOKJuJeLdcu-00553-00172132-00172518 book GI farmers demanded and were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00554-00172519-00172784 generally given occupational deferments
GOKJuJeLdcu-00555-00172785-00173043 many volunteered anyway but those who
GOKJuJeLdcu-00556-00173044-00173276 stayed at home lost post-war veterans
GOKJuJeLdcu-00557-00173277-00173666 benefits later in the war in light of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00558-00173667-00173900 the tremendous amount of manpower that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00559-00173901-00174131 would be necessary for the invasion of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00560-00174132-00174503 France in 1944 many earlier deferment
GOKJuJeLdcu-00561-00174504-00175363 categories became draft eligible topic
GOKJuJeLdcu-00562-00175364-00176027 pacifism the churches showed much less
GOKJuJeLdcu-00563-00176028-00176441 pacifism than in 1914 the Church of God
GOKJuJeLdcu-00564-00176442-00176735 based in Anderson Indiana had a strong
GOKJuJeLdcu-00565-00176736-00177011 pacifist element reaching a high point
GOKJuJeLdcu-00566-00177012-00177468 in the late 1930s the church regarded
GOKJuJeLdcu-00567-00177469-00177728 World War 2 as a just war because
GOKJuJeLdcu-00568-00177729-00178079 America was attacked likewise the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00569-00178080-00178358 Quakers generally regarded World War 2
GOKJuJeLdcu-00570-00178359-00178676 as a just war in about 90% served
GOKJuJeLdcu-00571-00178677-00178910 although there were some conscientious
GOKJuJeLdcu-00572-00178911-00179234 objectors the Mennonites and brethren
GOKJuJeLdcu-00573-00179235-00179534 continued their pacifism but the federal
GOKJuJeLdcu-00574-00179535-00179795 government was much less hostile than in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00575-00179796-00180144 the previous war these churches helped
GOKJuJeLdcu-00576-00180145-00180326 the young men to both become
GOKJuJeLdcu-00577-00180327-00180584 conscientious objectors and to provide
GOKJuJeLdcu-00578-00180585-00180971 valuable service to the nation Goshen
GOKJuJeLdcu-00579-00180972-00181206 College set up a training program for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00580-00181207-00181549 unpaid civilian public service jobs
GOKJuJeLdcu-00581-00181550-00181877 although young women pacifists were not
GOKJuJeLdcu-00582-00181878-00182141 eligible for the draft they volunteered
GOKJuJeLdcu-00583-00182142-00182435 for unpaid civilian public service jobs
GOKJuJeLdcu-00584-00182436-00182708 to demonstrate the patriotism many
GOKJuJeLdcu-00585-00182709-00183104 worked in mental hospitals the Jehovah
GOKJuJeLdcu-00586-00183105-00183416 Witness denomination however refused to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00587-00183417-00183546 participate in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00588-00183547-00183813 forms of service and thousands of its
GOKJuJeLdcu-00589-00183814-00184071 young men refused to register and went
GOKJuJeLdcu-00590-00184072-00184665 to prison
GOKJuJeLdcu-00591-00184666-00185334 topic suspected disloyalty
GOKJuJeLdcu-00592-00185335-00185584 civilian support for the war was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00593-00185585-00185881 widespread with isolated cases of draft
GOKJuJeLdcu-00594-00185882-00186288 resistance the FBI was already tracking
GOKJuJeLdcu-00595-00186289-00186556 elements that were suspected of loyalty
GOKJuJeLdcu-00596-00186557-00186879 to Germany Japan or Italy and many were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00597-00186880-00187101 arrested in the weeks after the attack
GOKJuJeLdcu-00598-00187102-00187323 on Pearl Harbor
GOKJuJeLdcu-00599-00187324-00187657 7,000 German and Italian aliens who were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00600-00187658-00187936 not US citizens were moved back from the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00601-00187937-00188260 West Coast along with some 100,000 of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00602-00188261-00188656 Japanese descent some enemy aliens were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00603-00188657-00188907 held without trial during the entire war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00604-00188908-00189244 the US citizens accused of supporting
GOKJuJeLdcu-00605-00189245-00189516 Germany were given public trials and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00606-00189517-00190190 often were freed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00607-00190191-00190871 topic population movements
GOKJuJeLdcu-00608-00190872-00191153 there was large-scale migration to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00609-00191154-00191426 industrial centers especially the west
GOKJuJeLdcu-00610-00191427-00191792 coast millions of wives followed their
GOKJuJeLdcu-00611-00191793-00192050 husbands to military camps for many
GOKJuJeLdcu-00612-00192051-00192365 families especially from farms the moves
GOKJuJeLdcu-00613-00192366-00192878 were permanent 1 1944 survey of migrants
GOKJuJeLdcu-00614-00192879-00193163 in Portland Oregon and San Diego found
GOKJuJeLdcu-00615-00193164-00193421 that three-quarters wanted to stay after
GOKJuJeLdcu-00616-00193422-00193811 the war many new military training bases
GOKJuJeLdcu-00617-00193812-00194099 were established or enlarged especially
GOKJuJeLdcu-00618-00194100-00194431 in the south large numbers of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00619-00194432-00194696 african-americans left the cotton fields
GOKJuJeLdcu-00620-00194697-00195038 and headed for the city's housing was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00621-00195039-00195260 increasingly difficult to find in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00622-00195261-00195517 industrial centers as there was no new
GOKJuJeLdcu-00623-00195518-00195784 non-military construction
GOKJuJeLdcu-00624-00195785-00196106 commuting by car was limited by gasoline
GOKJuJeLdcu-00625-00196107-00196424 rationing people car pulled or took
GOKJuJeLdcu-00626-00196425-00196703 public transportation which was severely
GOKJuJeLdcu-00627-00196704-00197063 overcrowded trains were heavily booked
GOKJuJeLdcu-00628-00197064-00197351 with uniformed military personnel taking
GOKJuJeLdcu-00629-00197352-00197432 priority
GOKJuJeLdcu-00630-00197433-00197702 so people limited vacation and long
GOKJuJeLdcu-00631-00197703-00198338 distance travel
GOKJuJeLdcu-00632-00198339-00199076 topic racial tensions the large-scale
GOKJuJeLdcu-00633-00199077-00199313 movement of blacks from the rural South
GOKJuJeLdcu-00634-00199314-00199583 to urban and defense centers in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00635-00199584-00199814 north and the West and some in the South
GOKJuJeLdcu-00636-00199815-00200116 during the Second Great Migration led to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00637-00200117-00200381 local confrontations over jobs and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00638-00200382-00200720 housing shortages the cities were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00639-00200721-00200948 relatively peaceful much feared
GOKJuJeLdcu-00640-00200949-00201227 large-scale race riots did not happen
GOKJuJeLdcu-00641-00201228-00201470 but there was nevertheless violence on
GOKJuJeLdcu-00642-00201471-00201869 both sides as in the 1943 race riot in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00643-00201870-00202148 Detroit and the anti Mexican Zoot Suit
GOKJuJeLdcu-00644-00202149-00202690 Riots in Los Angeles in 1943 the zoot
GOKJuJeLdcu-00645-00202691-00203072 suit was a highly conspicuous costume
GOKJuJeLdcu-00646-00203073-00203363 worn by mexican-american teenagers in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00647-00203364-00203765 Los Angeles as historian Roger Bruns
GOKJuJeLdcu-00648-00203766-00204152 notes the zoot suit also represented a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00649-00204153-00204443 stark visual expression of culture for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00650-00204444-00204715 Mexican Americans about making a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00651-00204716-00205084 statement a mark of defiance against the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00652-00205085-00205339 place in society in which they found
GOKJuJeLdcu-00653-00205340-00205778 themselves they gained admiration from
GOKJuJeLdcu-00654-00205779-00206021 within their in-group and disgust and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00655-00206021-00206252 ridicule from others especially the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00656-00206253-00206871 Anglos
GOKJuJeLdcu-00657-00206873-00207472 topic role of women
GOKJuJeLdcu-00658-00207473-00207836 Standley 2010 argues that during the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00659-00207837-00208046 the traditional gender division of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00660-00208047-00208396 labour changed somewhat as the home or
GOKJuJeLdcu-00661-00208397-00208694 domestic female sphere expanded to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00662-00208696-00209123 include the home front meanwhile the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00663-00209124-00209483 public sphere the male domain was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00664-00209484-00209753 redefined as the international stage of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00665-00209754-00210386 military action
GOKJuJeLdcu-00666-00210387-00210954 topic employment
GOKJuJeLdcu-00667-00210955-00211298 wartime mobilization drastically changed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00668-00211300-00211560 the sexual divisions of labor for women
GOKJuJeLdcu-00669-00211561-00211785 as young able-bodied men were sent
GOKJuJeLdcu-00670-00211786-00212058 overseas and wartime manufacturing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00671-00212059-00212400 production increased throughout the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00672-00212401-00212771 according to Susan Hartman 1982 an
GOKJuJeLdcu-00673-00212773-00213119 estimated 6.5 million women entered the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00674-00213121-00213467 labor force women many of whom were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00675-00213469-00213767 married took a variety of paid jobs in a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00676-00213769-00214053 multitude of vocational jobs many of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00677-00214054-00214331 which were previously exclusive to men
GOKJuJeLdcu-00678-00214332-00214659 the greatest wartime gain in female
GOKJuJeLdcu-00679-00214660-00214878 employment was in the manufacturing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00680-00214879-00215178 industry where more than 2.5 million
GOKJuJeLdcu-00681-00215179-00215403 additional women represented an increase
GOKJuJeLdcu-00682-00215404-00215969 of 140 percent by 1944 this was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00683-00215971-00216341 catalyzed by the Rosie the Riveter
GOKJuJeLdcu-00684-00216342-00216732 phenomenon the composition of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00685-00216733-00216990 marital status of women who went to work
GOKJuJeLdcu-00686-00216991-00217260 change considerably over the course of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00687-00217261-00217611 the war one in every 10 married women
GOKJuJeLdcu-00688-00217612-00217833 entered the labor force during the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00689-00217834-00218061 and they represented more than three
GOKJuJeLdcu-00690-00218062-00218321 million of the new female workers while
GOKJuJeLdcu-00691-00218323-00218607 2.8 nine million were single and the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00692-00218608-00218948 rest widowed or divorced for the first
GOKJuJeLdcu-00693-00218950-00219192 time in the nation's history there were
GOKJuJeLdcu-00694-00219192-00219435 more married women than single women in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00695-00219436-00219971 the female labor force in 1944 37
GOKJuJeLdcu-00696-00219973-00220230 percent of all adult women were reported
GOKJuJeLdcu-00697-00220231-00220515 in the labor force but nearly 50 percent
GOKJuJeLdcu-00698-00220516-00220740 of all women were actually employed at
GOKJuJeLdcu-00699-00220741-00220953 some time during that year at the height
GOKJuJeLdcu-00700-00220954-00221313 of wartime production in the same year
GOKJuJeLdcu-00701-00221314-00221537 the unemployment rate hit an all-time
GOKJuJeLdcu-00702-00221538-00221880 historical low of 1.2 percent according
GOKJuJeLdcu-00703-00221881-00222237 to hartman 1982 the women who sought
GOKJuJeLdcu-00704-00222238-00222531 employment based on various surveys and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00705-00222532-00222737 public opinion reports at the time
GOKJuJeLdcu-00706-00222738-00223011 suggests that financial reasoning was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00707-00223012-00223239 the justification for entering the labor
GOKJuJeLdcu-00708-00223240-00223308 force
GOKJuJeLdcu-00709-00223309-00223581 however patriotic motives made up
GOKJuJeLdcu-00710-00223582-00223821 another large portion of women's desires
GOKJuJeLdcu-00711-00223821-00224048 to enter women
GOKJuJeLdcu-00712-00224050-00224280 his husband's were at war were more than
GOKJuJeLdcu-00713-00224281-00224483 twice as likely to seek jobs
GOKJuJeLdcu-00714-00224484-00224727 fundamentally women were thought to be
GOKJuJeLdcu-00715-00224728-00225044 taking work defined as men's work
GOKJuJeLdcu-00716-00225044-00225384 however the work women did was typically
GOKJuJeLdcu-00717-00225385-00225603 catered to specific skill sets
GOKJuJeLdcu-00718-00225604-00225902 management thought women could handle
GOKJuJeLdcu-00719-00225903-00226191 management would also advertise women's
GOKJuJeLdcu-00720-00226192-00226544 work as an extension of domesticity for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00721-00226546-00226766 example in a sperry corporation
GOKJuJeLdcu-00722-00226767-00227052 recruitment pamphlet the company stated
GOKJuJeLdcu-00723-00227053-00227376 note the similarity between squeezing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00724-00227377-00227625 orange juice and the operation of a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00725-00227626-00228084 small drill press a Ford Motor Company
GOKJuJeLdcu-00726-00228085-00228348 at Willow Run bomber plant publication
GOKJuJeLdcu-00727-00228348-00228630 proclaimed the ladies have shown they
GOKJuJeLdcu-00728-00228631-00228912 can operate drill presses as well as egg
GOKJuJeLdcu-00729-00228913-00229338 beaters one manager was even stated
GOKJuJeLdcu-00730-00229339-00229665 saying why should men who from childhood
GOKJuJeLdcu-00731-00229666-00229962 on never so much as sewed on buttons be
GOKJuJeLdcu-00732-00229963-00230244 expected to handle delicate instruments
GOKJuJeLdcu-00733-00230244-00230433 better than women who have plied
GOKJuJeLdcu-00734-00230434-00230739 embroidery needles knitting needles and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00735-00230740-00231144 darning needles all their lives in these
GOKJuJeLdcu-00736-00231144-00231398 instances women were thought of and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00737-00231400-00231657 hired to do jobs management thought they
GOKJuJeLdcu-00738-00231658-00231992 could perform based on sex typing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00739-00231992-00232290 following the war many women left their
GOKJuJeLdcu-00740-00232291-00232650 jobs voluntarily one Twin Cities Army
GOKJuJeLdcu-00741-00232651-00232917 Ammunition Plant formerly Twin Cities
GOKJuJeLdcu-00742-00232917-00233162 ordnance plant worker in New Brighton
GOKJuJeLdcu-00743-00233163-00233523 Minnesota confessed I will gladly get
GOKJuJeLdcu-00744-00233523-00233867 back into the apron I did not go into
GOKJuJeLdcu-00745-00233869-00234189 war work with the idea of working all my
GOKJuJeLdcu-00746-00234190-00234603 life it was just to help out during the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00747-00234604-00234900 war other women were laid off by
GOKJuJeLdcu-00748-00234901-00235125 employers to make way for returning
GOKJuJeLdcu-00749-00235126-00235341 veterans who did not lose their
GOKJuJeLdcu-00750-00235342-00235761 seniority due to the war by the end of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00751-00235762-00236007 the war many men who entered into the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00752-00236008-00236391 service did not return this left women
GOKJuJeLdcu-00753-00236392-00236648 to take up sole responsibility of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00754-00236650-00236913 household and provide economically for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00755-00236914-00237505 the family
GOKJuJeLdcu-00756-00237506-00238044 topic nursing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00757-00238046-00238315 nursing became a highly prestigious
GOKJuJeLdcu-00758-00238316-00238673 occupation for young women a majority of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00759-00238673-00238958 female civilian nurses volunteered for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00760-00238959-00239198 the Army Nurse Corps the Navy Nurse
GOKJuJeLdcu-00761-00239198-00239567 Corps these women automatically became
GOKJuJeLdcu-00762-00239567-00239933 officers teenaged girls enlisted in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00763-00239934-00240203 cadet Nurse Corps to cope with the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00764-00240204-00240416 growing shortage on the homefront
GOKJuJeLdcu-00765-00240417-00240677 thousands of retired nurses volunteered
GOKJuJeLdcu-00766-00240678-00241441 to help out in local hospitals
GOKJuJeLdcu-00767-00241442-00242101 topic volunteer activities
GOKJuJeLdcu-00768-00242102-00242365 women staffed millions of jobs in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00769-00242366-00242665 community service roles such as nursing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00770-00242666-00243082 the USO and the Red Cross unorganized
GOKJuJeLdcu-00771-00243083-00243313 women were encouraged to collect and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00772-00243314-00243553 turn in materials that were needed by
GOKJuJeLdcu-00773-00243554-00243885 the war effort women collected fats
GOKJuJeLdcu-00774-00243886-00244153 rendered during cooking children formed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00775-00244154-00244414 balls of aluminum foil they peeled from
GOKJuJeLdcu-00776-00244415-00244669 chewing gum wrappers and also created
GOKJuJeLdcu-00777-00244669-00244939 rubber band balls which they contributed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00778-00244940-00245302 to the war effort hundreds of thousands
GOKJuJeLdcu-00779-00245303-00245578 of men joined Civil Defence units to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00780-00245579-00245839 prepare for disasters such as enemy
GOKJuJeLdcu-00781-00245840-00246154 bombing the women Air Force Service
GOKJuJeLdcu-00782-00246155-00246553 Pilots was mobilized 1,000 civilian
GOKJuJeLdcu-00783-00246554-00246778 women to fly new war planes from the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00784-00246779-00247044 factories to airfields located on the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00785-00247046-00247333 east coast of the US this was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00786-00247334-00247591 historically significant because flying
GOKJuJeLdcu-00787-00247592-00247887 a war plane had always been a male role
GOKJuJeLdcu-00788-00247888-00248235 no American women flew war planes in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00789-00248236-00248782 combat
GOKJuJeLdcu-00790-00248783-00249335 topic baby boom
GOKJuJeLdcu-00791-00249336-00249602 marriage and motherhood came back as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00792-00249603-00249842 prosperity empowered couples who had
GOKJuJeLdcu-00793-00249844-00250232 postponed marriage the birthrate started
GOKJuJeLdcu-00794-00250233-00250781 shooting up in 1941 paused in 1944-45 as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00795-00250782-00251045 12 million men were in uniform then
GOKJuJeLdcu-00796-00251046-00251297 continued to soar until reaching a peak
GOKJuJeLdcu-00797-00251298-00251884 in the late 1950s this was the baby boom
GOKJuJeLdcu-00798-00251885-00252230 in a new deal like move the federal
GOKJuJeLdcu-00799-00252231-00252605 government set up the emic program that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00800-00252606-00252884 provided free prenatal and natal care
GOKJuJeLdcu-00801-00252885-00253130 for the wives of servicemen below the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00802-00253131-00253538 rank of sergeant housing shortages
GOKJuJeLdcu-00803-00253539-00253788 especially in the munition centers
GOKJuJeLdcu-00804-00253789-00254048 forced millions of couples to live with
GOKJuJeLdcu-00805-00254049-00254363 parents or in makeshift facilities
GOKJuJeLdcu-00806-00254364-00254642 little housing have been built in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00807-00254644-00254913 Depression years so the shortages grew
GOKJuJeLdcu-00808-00254914-00255269 steadily worse until about 1949 when a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00809-00255271-00255519 massive housing boom finally caught up
GOKJuJeLdcu-00810-00255519-00256019 with demand after 1944 much of the new
GOKJuJeLdcu-00811-00256021-00256477 housing was supported by the GI Bill
GOKJuJeLdcu-00812-00256478-00256778 federal law made it difficult to divorce
GOKJuJeLdcu-00813-00256779-00257033 absent servicemen so the number of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00814-00257034-00257302 divorces peaked when they returned in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00815-00257303-00257787 1946 in long range terms divorce rates
GOKJuJeLdcu-00816-00257788-00258365 changed little
GOKJuJeLdcu-00817-00258366-00258952 topic housewives
GOKJuJeLdcu-00818-00258953-00259225 juggling their roles as mothers due to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00819-00259226-00259453 the baby boom and the jobs they filled
GOKJuJeLdcu-00820-00259454-00259699 while the men were at war women strained
GOKJuJeLdcu-00821-00259700-00259971 to complete all tasks set before them
GOKJuJeLdcu-00822-00259972-00260312 the war caused cutbacks in automobile
GOKJuJeLdcu-00823-00260313-00260614 and bus service and migration from farms
GOKJuJeLdcu-00824-00260615-00260974 and towns to munition centers those
GOKJuJeLdcu-00825-00260975-00261212 housewives who worked found the dual
GOKJuJeLdcu-00826-00261213-00261610 role difficult to handle stress came
GOKJuJeLdcu-00827-00261611-00261967 when sons husbands fathers brothers and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00828-00261968-00262225 fiance's were drafted and sent to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00829-00262226-00262495 faraway training camps preparing for a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00830-00262496-00262750 war in which nobody knew how many would
GOKJuJeLdcu-00831-00262751-00263101 be killed millions of wives tried to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00832-00263102-00263344 relocate near their husbands training
GOKJuJeLdcu-00833-00263345-00263904 camps
GOKJuJeLdcu-00834-00263905-00264452 topic racial politics of the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00835-00264453-00264972 you
GOKJuJeLdcu-00836-00264973-00265347 topic immigration policies during and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00837-00265348-00265844 after World War two
GOKJuJeLdcu-00838-00265845-00266117 during World War two the trend in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00839-00266118-00266353 immigration policies were both more and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00840-00266354-00266707 less restrictive the united states
GOKJuJeLdcu-00841-00266708-00266956 immigration policies focused more on
GOKJuJeLdcu-00842-00266957-00267232 national security and were driven by
GOKJuJeLdcu-00843-00267233-00267647 foreign policy imperatives legislation
GOKJuJeLdcu-00844-00267648-00267893 such as the Chinese Exclusion Act of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00845-00267894-00268364 1882 was finally repealed this act was
GOKJuJeLdcu-00846-00268365-00268630 the first law in the United States that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00847-00268631-00268895 excluded a specific group the Chinese
GOKJuJeLdcu-00848-00268896-00269294 from migrating to the United States but
GOKJuJeLdcu-00849-00269295-00269458 during World War two
GOKJuJeLdcu-00850-00269459-00269669 with the Chinese as allies the United
GOKJuJeLdcu-00851-00269670-00269951 States passed the Magnuson Act also
GOKJuJeLdcu-00852-00269952-00270227 known as the Chinese Exclusion repeal
GOKJuJeLdcu-00853-00270228-00270634 Act of 1943 there was also the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00854-00270635-00271006 Nationality Act of 1940 which clarified
GOKJuJeLdcu-00855-00271007-00271348 how to become and remain a citizen
GOKJuJeLdcu-00856-00271349-00271616 specifically it allowed immigrants who
GOKJuJeLdcu-00857-00271617-00271895 were not citizens like the Filipinos all
GOKJuJeLdcu-00858-00271896-00272141 those in the outside territories to gain
GOKJuJeLdcu-00859-00272142-00272494 citizenship by enlisting in the army in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00860-00272495-00272741 contrast the Japanese and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00861-00272742-00272975 japanese-americans were subject to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00862-00272976-00273214 internment in the u.s. there was also
GOKJuJeLdcu-00863-00273215-00273446 legislation like the Smith Act also
GOKJuJeLdcu-00864-00273447-00273732 known as the alien Registration Act of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00865-00273733-00274081 1940 which required indicted communists
GOKJuJeLdcu-00866-00274082-00274496 anarchists and fascists another program
GOKJuJeLdcu-00867-00274497-00274745 was the bracero program which allowed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00868-00274746-00275008 over two decades nearly 5 million
GOKJuJeLdcu-00869-00275009-00275276 Mexican workers to come and work in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00870-00275277-00275581 United States after World War two there
GOKJuJeLdcu-00871-00275582-00275918 was also the Truman directive of 1945
GOKJuJeLdcu-00872-00275919-00276154 which did not allow more people to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00873-00276155-00276395 migrate but did use the immigration
GOKJuJeLdcu-00874-00276396-00276653 quotas to let in more displaced people
GOKJuJeLdcu-00875-00276654-00276982 after the war there was also the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00876-00276983-00277376 brides Act of 1945 which allowed spouses
GOKJuJeLdcu-00877-00277377-00277664 of US soldiers to get an expedited path
GOKJuJeLdcu-00878-00277665-00278173 towards citizenship in contrast the 1952
GOKJuJeLdcu-00879-00278174-00278438 Immigration and Nationality Act also
GOKJuJeLdcu-00880-00278439-00278714 known as the McCarran walther Act turned
GOKJuJeLdcu-00881-00278715-00278969 away migrants based not on their country
GOKJuJeLdcu-00882-00278970-00279176 of origin but rather whether they are
GOKJuJeLdcu-00883-00279177-00279215 more
GOKJuJeLdcu-00884-00279216-00279830 or diseased
GOKJuJeLdcu-00885-00279831-00280643 topic internment in 1942 the War
GOKJuJeLdcu-00886-00280644-00280887 Department demanded that all enemy
GOKJuJeLdcu-00887-00280888-00281168 nationals be removed from war zones on
GOKJuJeLdcu-00888-00281169-00281504 the west coast the question became how
GOKJuJeLdcu-00889-00281505-00281945 to evacuate the estimated 120,000 people
GOKJuJeLdcu-00890-00281946-00282191 of Japanese ancestry living in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00891-00282192-00282365 California
GOKJuJeLdcu-00892-00282366-00282608 Roosevelt looked at the secret evidence
GOKJuJeLdcu-00893-00282609-00282881 available to him the Japanese in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00894-00282882-00283121 Philippines had collaborated with the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00895-00283122-00283397 Japanese invasion troops most of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00896-00283398-00283676 adult Japanese in California had been
GOKJuJeLdcu-00897-00283677-00283922 strong supporters of Japan in the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00898-00283923-00284258 against China there was evidence of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00899-00284259-00284546 espionage compiled by code breakers that
GOKJuJeLdcu-00900-00284547-00284876 decrypted messages to Japan from agents
GOKJuJeLdcu-00901-00284877-00285155 in North America in Hawaii before and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00902-00285156-00285494 after the attack on Pearl Harbor these
GOKJuJeLdcu-00903-00285495-00285779 magic cables were kept secret from all
GOKJuJeLdcu-00904-00285780-00285965 but those with the highest clearance
GOKJuJeLdcu-00905-00285966-00286555 such as Roosevelt On February 19 1942
GOKJuJeLdcu-00906-00286556-00286960 Roosevelt signed executive order 9066
GOKJuJeLdcu-00907-00286961-00287321 which set up designated military areas
GOKJuJeLdcu-00908-00287322-00287617 from which any or all persons may be
GOKJuJeLdcu-00909-00287618-00288014 excluded the most controversial part of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00910-00288015-00288227 the order included american-born
GOKJuJeLdcu-00911-00288228-00288513 children and youth who had dual us and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00912-00288514-00288851 Japanese citizenship Germans and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00913-00288852-00289130 Italians were not interned as shown from
GOKJuJeLdcu-00914-00289131-00289595 the core mat CV United States case in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00915-00289596-00290147 February 1943 when activating the 442nd
GOKJuJeLdcu-00916-00290148-00290498 Regimental Combat Team a unit composed
GOKJuJeLdcu-00917-00290499-00290744 mostly of american-born American
GOKJuJeLdcu-00918-00290745-00290999 citizens of Japanese descent living in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00919-00291000-00291431 Hawaii Roosevelt said no loyal citizen
GOKJuJeLdcu-00920-00291432-00291677 of the United States should be denied
GOKJuJeLdcu-00921-00291678-00291985 the democratic right to exercise the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00922-00291986-00292223 responsibilities of his citizenship
GOKJuJeLdcu-00923-00292224-00292679 regardless of his ancestry the principle
GOKJuJeLdcu-00924-00292680-00292949 on which this country was founded and by
GOKJuJeLdcu-00925-00292950-00293209 which it has always been governed is the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00926-00293210-00293483 Americanism is a matter of the mind and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00927-00293484-00293825 heart Americanism is not and never was a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00928-00293826-00294401 matter of race or ancestry in 1944 the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00929-00294402-00294695 US Supreme Court upheld the legality of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00930-00294696-00294977 the executive order in the Komatsu V
GOKJuJeLdcu-00931-00294978-00295421 United States case the executive order
GOKJuJeLdcu-00932-00295422-00295667 remained in force until December when
GOKJuJeLdcu-00933-00295668-00295866 Roosevelt released the Japanese
GOKJuJeLdcu-00934-00295867-00296126 internees except for those who announced
GOKJuJeLdcu-00935-00296127-00296479 their intention to return to Japan
GOKJuJeLdcu-00936-00296480-00296792 fascist Italy was an official enemy and
GOKJuJeLdcu-00937-00296793-00297059 citizens of Italy were also forced away
GOKJuJeLdcu-00938-00297060-00297482 from strategic coastal areas in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00939-00297483-00297742 California altogether
GOKJuJeLdcu-00940-00297743-00298060 58,000 Italians were forced to relocate
GOKJuJeLdcu-00941-00298061-00298389 they relocated on their own and were not
GOKJuJeLdcu-00942-00298390-00298757 put in camps known spokesman for benito
GOKJuJeLdcu-00943-00298758-00299000 mussolini were arrested and held in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00944-00299001-00299294 prison the restrictions were dropped in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00945-00299295-00299725 October 1942 and Italy switched sides in
GOKJuJeLdcu-00946-00299726-00300152 1943 and became an American ally in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00947-00300153-00300398 East however the large Italian
GOKJuJeLdcu-00948-00300399-00300615 populations of the Northeast especially
GOKJuJeLdcu-00949-00300616-00300920 in munitions producing centers such as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00950-00300921-00301184 Bridgeport and New Haven faced no
GOKJuJeLdcu-00951-00301185-00301433 restrictions and contributed just as
GOKJuJeLdcu-00952-00301434-00301616 much to the war effort as other
GOKJuJeLdcu-00953-00301617-00302249 Americans
GOKJuJeLdcu-00954-00302250-00302951 topic F EPC the Fair Employment
GOKJuJeLdcu-00955-00302952-00303356 Practices Commission F EPC was a federal
GOKJuJeLdcu-00956-00303357-00303626 executive order requiring companies with
GOKJuJeLdcu-00957-00303627-00303872 government contracts not to discriminate
GOKJuJeLdcu-00958-00303873-00304208 on the basis of race or religion it
GOKJuJeLdcu-00959-00304209-00304508 assisted african-americans in obtaining
GOKJuJeLdcu-00960-00304509-00304781 defense industry jobs during the second
GOKJuJeLdcu-00961-00304782-00305012 wave of the great migration of southern
GOKJuJeLdcu-00962-00305013-00305219 blacks to northern and western war
GOKJuJeLdcu-00963-00305220-00305497 production and urban centers under
GOKJuJeLdcu-00964-00305498-00305753 pressure from a Philip Randolph's
GOKJuJeLdcu-00965-00305754-00306017 growing march on Washington movement On
GOKJuJeLdcu-00966-00306018-00306437 June 25th 1941 President Roosevelt
GOKJuJeLdcu-00967-00306438-00306632 created the fair employment practices
GOKJuJeLdcu-00968-00306633-00306982 committee F EPC by signing executive
GOKJuJeLdcu-00969-00306983-00307604 order 8802 it said there shall be no
GOKJuJeLdcu-00970-00307605-00307856 discrimination in the employment of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00971-00307857-00308110 workers in defense industries or
GOKJuJeLdcu-00972-00308111-00308396 government because of race creed color
GOKJuJeLdcu-00973-00308397-00308956 or national origin in 1943 Roosevelt
GOKJuJeLdcu-00974-00308957-00309283 greatly strengthened Effie PC with a new
GOKJuJeLdcu-00975-00309284-00309563 executive order number nine thousand
GOKJuJeLdcu-00976-00309564-00309923 three hundred and forty six it required
GOKJuJeLdcu-00977-00309924-00310158 that all government contracts have a
GOKJuJeLdcu-00978-00310159-00310562 non-discrimination clause F EPC was the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00979-00310563-00310796 most significant breakthrough ever for
GOKJuJeLdcu-00980-00310797-00311156 blacks and women on the job front during
GOKJuJeLdcu-00981-00311157-00311399 the war the federal government operated
GOKJuJeLdcu-00982-00311400-00311699 airfields shipyards Supply centers
GOKJuJeLdcu-00983-00311700-00311957 ammunition plants and other facilities
GOKJuJeLdcu-00984-00311958-00312404 that employed millions F EPC rules
GOKJuJeLdcu-00985-00312405-00312644 applied and guaranteed a quality of
GOKJuJeLdcu-00986-00312645-00313031 employment rights these facilities shut
GOKJuJeLdcu-00987-00313032-00313328 down when the war ended in the private
GOKJuJeLdcu-00988-00313329-00313598 sector the F EPC was generally
GOKJuJeLdcu-00989-00313599-00313774 successful in enforcing
GOKJuJeLdcu-00990-00313775-00314008 non-discrimination in the north and west
GOKJuJeLdcu-00991-00314009-00314185 but did not attempt to challenge
GOKJuJeLdcu-00992-00314186-00314432 segregation in the south and in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00993-00314433-00314678 border region its intervention led to
GOKJuJeLdcu-00994-00314679-00315454 hate strikes by angry white workers
GOKJuJeLdcu-00995-00315455-00315865 topic african-americans and the double V
GOKJuJeLdcu-00996-00315866-00316288 campaign
GOKJuJeLdcu-00997-00316289-00316585 the african-american community in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-00998-00316586-00316840 United States resolved on a double V
GOKJuJeLdcu-00999-00316841-00317146 campaign victory over fascism abroad and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01000-00317147-00317430 victory over discrimination at home
GOKJuJeLdcu-01001-00317431-00317716 during the second phase of the great
GOKJuJeLdcu-01002-00317717-00318030 migration five million African Americans
GOKJuJeLdcu-01003-00318031-00318295 relocated from rural and poor southern
GOKJuJeLdcu-01004-00318296-00318571 farms to urban and munitions centers in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01005-00318572-00318796 northern and western states in search of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01006-00318797-00319122 racial economic social and political
GOKJuJeLdcu-01007-00319123-00319510 opportunities racial tensions remained
GOKJuJeLdcu-01008-00319511-00319768 high in these cities particularly in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01009-00319769-00319981 overcrowding in housing as well as
GOKJuJeLdcu-01010-00319982-00320410 competition for jobs as a result cities
GOKJuJeLdcu-01011-00320411-00320739 such as Detroit New York and Los Angeles
GOKJuJeLdcu-01012-00320740-00321145 experienced race riots in 1943 leading
GOKJuJeLdcu-01013-00321146-00321517 to dozens of deaths black newspapers
GOKJuJeLdcu-01014-00321518-00321769 created the double V campaign to build
GOKJuJeLdcu-01015-00321770-00322045 black morale and head off radical action
GOKJuJeLdcu-01016-00322046-00322327 most black women had been farm laborers
GOKJuJeLdcu-01017-00322328-00322696 or domestics before the war working with
GOKJuJeLdcu-01018-00322697-00322884 the Federal Fair Employment Practices
GOKJuJeLdcu-01019-00322885-00323386 Committee the NAACP and CIO unions these
GOKJuJeLdcu-01020-00323387-00323826 black women fought a double V campaign
GOKJuJeLdcu-01021-00323827-00324118 against the axis abroad and against
GOKJuJeLdcu-01022-00324119-00324396 restrictive hiring practices at home
GOKJuJeLdcu-01023-00324397-00324745 their efforts redefined citizenship 'ok
GOKJuJeLdcu-01024-00324746-00324988 waiting their patriotism with war work
GOKJuJeLdcu-01025-00324989-00325188 and seeking equal employment
GOKJuJeLdcu-01026-00325189-00325480 opportunities government entitlements
GOKJuJeLdcu-01027-00325481-00325690 and better working conditions as
GOKJuJeLdcu-01028-00325691-00325968 conditions appropriate for full citizens
GOKJuJeLdcu-01029-00325969-00326305 in the south black women worked in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01030-00326306-00326605 segregated jobs in the west and most of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01031-00326606-00326944 the north they were integrated however
GOKJuJeLdcu-01032-00326945-00327223 wildcat strikes erupted in detroit
GOKJuJeLdcu-01033-00327224-00327517 Baltimore and Evansville Indiana where
GOKJuJeLdcu-01034-00327518-00327766 white migrants from the south refused to
GOKJuJeLdcu-01035-00327767-00328471 work alongside black women
GOKJuJeLdcu-01036-00328472-00329158 topic racism in propaganda
GOKJuJeLdcu-01037-00329159-00329445 pro-american media during the war tended
GOKJuJeLdcu-01038-00329446-00329724 to portray the Axis powers in a negative
GOKJuJeLdcu-01039-00329725-00330107 light Germans were portrayed as weak
GOKJuJeLdcu-01040-00330108-00330395 barbaric or stupid and were heavily
GOKJuJeLdcu-01041-00330396-00330764 associated with Nazism and Nazi imagery
GOKJuJeLdcu-01042-00330765-00331104 for example the comic book Captain
GOKJuJeLdcu-01043-00331105-00331374 America number one features the titular
GOKJuJeLdcu-01044-00331375-00331719 superhero punching Hitler similar
GOKJuJeLdcu-01045-00331720-00331977 anti-german sentiments existed in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01046-00331978-00332301 cartoons as well the Popeye cartoon
GOKJuJeLdcu-01047-00332302-00332592 seein red white and blue aired on
GOKJuJeLdcu-01048-00332593-00332988 February 19 1943 ends with Uncle Sam
GOKJuJeLdcu-01049-00332989-00333339 punching a sickly-looking Hitler in the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01050-00333340-00333635 Donald Duck cartoon def wearers face
GOKJuJeLdcu-01051-00333636-00333908 donald duck is portrayed as a nazi
GOKJuJeLdcu-01052-00333909-00334137 living in germany where the nazi war
GOKJuJeLdcu-01053-00334138-00334365 effort is heavily satirized in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01054-00334366-00334677 caricatured american media portrayed the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01055-00334678-00334992 Japanese negatively as well while
GOKJuJeLdcu-01056-00334993-00335202 attacks on Germans were generally
GOKJuJeLdcu-01057-00335203-00335424 focused on high-level Nazi officials
GOKJuJeLdcu-01058-00335425-00335646 such as Hitler Himmler
GOKJuJeLdcu-01059-00335647-00335928 gurbles and Goering the Japanese were
GOKJuJeLdcu-01060-00335929-00336300 targeted more broadly portrayal of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01061-00336301-00336525 Japanese ranged from showing and being
GOKJuJeLdcu-01062-00336526-00336771 vicious and feral as on the cover of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01063-00336772-00337143 Marvel Comics mystery comics number 32 -
GOKJuJeLdcu-01064-00337144-00337347 mocking their physical appearance and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01065-00337348-00337692 speech patterns in the Looney Tunes
GOKJuJeLdcu-01066-00337693-00338220 cartoon Tokyo Tokyo at May 13 1943 the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01067-00338221-00338430 Japanese people are all shown to be
GOKJuJeLdcu-01068-00338431-00338697 dim-witted obsessed with being polite
GOKJuJeLdcu-01069-00338698-00338919 cowardly and physically short with
GOKJuJeLdcu-01070-00338920-00339209 buckteeth big lips squinty eyes and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01071-00339210-00339612 glasses the entire cartoon is also
GOKJuJeLdcu-01072-00339613-00339840 narrated in broken English with the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01073-00339841-00339978 letter R
GOKJuJeLdcu-01074-00339979-00340425 often replacing L in pronunciation of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01075-00340426-00340821 words a common stereotype Japanese slurs
GOKJuJeLdcu-01076-00340822-00341280 were commonly used such as monkey
GOKJuJeLdcu-01077-00341281-00341817 face and slanty eyes these stereotypes
GOKJuJeLdcu-01078-00341818-00342131 are also seen in Theodore Geisel comics
GOKJuJeLdcu-01079-00342132-00342533 created during the Second World War
GOKJuJeLdcu-01080-00342534-00342933 you
GOKJuJeLdcu-01081-00342934-00343599 topic wartime politics
GOKJuJeLdcu-01082-00343600-00343844 Roosevelt easily won the bitterly
GOKJuJeLdcu-01083-00343845-00344144 contested 1940 election but the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01084-00344145-00344380 conservative coalition maintained a
GOKJuJeLdcu-01085-00344381-00344653 tight grip on Congress regarding taxes
GOKJuJeLdcu-01086-00344654-00345049 and domestic issues Wendell Willkie the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01087-00345050-00345400 defeated gob candidate in 1940 became a
GOKJuJeLdcu-01088-00345401-00345791 roving ambassador for Roosevelt after
GOKJuJeLdcu-01089-00345792-00346043 Vice President Henry a Wallace became a
GOKJuJeLdcu-01090-00346044-00346276 meshed in a series of squabbles with
GOKJuJeLdcu-01091-00346277-00346538 other high officials Roosevelt stripped
GOKJuJeLdcu-01092-00346539-00346714 him of his administrative
GOKJuJeLdcu-01093-00346715-00346937 responsibilities and dropped him from
GOKJuJeLdcu-01094-00346938-00347410 the 1944 ticket Roosevelt in cooperation
GOKJuJeLdcu-01095-00347411-00347693 with big-city party leaders replaced
GOKJuJeLdcu-01096-00347694-00347939 Wallace with Missouri senator harry s
GOKJuJeLdcu-01097-00347940-00348298 truman truman was best known for
GOKJuJeLdcu-01098-00348299-00348496 investigating waste fraud and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01099-00348497-00348944 inefficiency in wartime programs in very
GOKJuJeLdcu-01100-00348945-00349309 light turnout in 1942 the republicans
GOKJuJeLdcu-01101-00349310-00349798 made major gains in the 1944 election
GOKJuJeLdcu-01102-00349799-00350080 roosevelt defeated tom dewey in a race
GOKJuJeLdcu-01103-00350081-00350844 that attracted little attention
GOKJuJeLdcu-01104-00350845-00351528 topic propaganda and culture
GOKJuJeLdcu-01105-00351529-00351817 patriotism became the central theme of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01106-00351818-00352021 advertising throughout the war as
GOKJuJeLdcu-01107-00352022-00352264 large-scale campaigns were launched to
GOKJuJeLdcu-01108-00352265-00352540 sell war bonds promote efficiency in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01109-00352541-00352798 factories reduce ugly rumors and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01110-00352799-00353145 maintain civilian morale the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-01111-00353146-00353416 consolidated the advertising industry's
GOKJuJeLdcu-01112-00353417-00353716 role in American society deflecting
GOKJuJeLdcu-01113-00353717-00354118 earlier criticism the media cooperated
GOKJuJeLdcu-01114-00354119-00354292 with the federal government in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01115-00354293-00354543 presenting the official view of the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-01116-00354544-00354874 all movie scripts had to be pre-approved
GOKJuJeLdcu-01117-00354875-00355258 for example there were widespread rumors
GOKJuJeLdcu-01118-00355259-00355507 in the army to the effect that people on
GOKJuJeLdcu-01119-00355508-00355764 the homefront were slacking off a
GOKJuJeLdcu-01120-00355765-00356119 private snafu film cartoon released to
GOKJuJeLdcu-01121-00356120-00356485 soldiers only polite that rumor Tin Pan
GOKJuJeLdcu-01122-00356486-00356806 Alley produced patriotic songs to rally
GOKJuJeLdcu-01123-00356807-00357361 the people
GOKJuJeLdcu-01124-00357362-00357916 topic posters
GOKJuJeLdcu-01125-00357917-00358285 posters helped to mobilize the nation
GOKJuJeLdcu-01126-00358286-00358571 inexpensive accessible and ever-present
GOKJuJeLdcu-01127-00358572-00358889 the poster was an ideal agent for making
GOKJuJeLdcu-01128-00358890-00359123 war aims the personal mission of every
GOKJuJeLdcu-01129-00359124-00359465 citizen government agencies businesses
GOKJuJeLdcu-01130-00359466-00359786 and private organizations issued an
GOKJuJeLdcu-01131-00359787-00360020 array of poster images linking the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01132-00360021-00360238 military front with the homefront
GOKJuJeLdcu-01133-00360239-00360518 calling upon every American to boost
GOKJuJeLdcu-01134-00360519-00360760 production at work and at home
GOKJuJeLdcu-01135-00360761-00361082 some resorted to extreme racial and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01136-00361083-00361295 ethnic caricatures of the enemy
GOKJuJeLdcu-01137-00361296-00361589 sometimes as hopelessly bumbling cartoon
GOKJuJeLdcu-01138-00361590-00361895 characters sometimes as evil half human
GOKJuJeLdcu-01139-00361896-00362517 creatures
GOKJuJeLdcu-01140-00362518-00363102 topic bond drives
GOKJuJeLdcu-01141-00363103-00363420 a strong aspect of American culture then
GOKJuJeLdcu-01142-00363421-00363597 as now was a fascination with
GOKJuJeLdcu-01143-00363598-00363861 celebrities and the government used him
GOKJuJeLdcu-01144-00363862-00364086 in its eighth war Bond campaigns that
GOKJuJeLdcu-01145-00364087-00364338 called on people to save now and redeem
GOKJuJeLdcu-01146-00364339-00364623 the bonds after the war when houses cars
GOKJuJeLdcu-01147-00364624-00364887 and appliances would again be available
GOKJuJeLdcu-01148-00364888-00365145 the war bond drives helped finance the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01149-00365146-00365517 war Americans were challenged to put at
GOKJuJeLdcu-01150-00365518-00365921 least 10% of every paycheck into bonds
GOKJuJeLdcu-01151-00365922-00366171 compliance was high with entire
GOKJuJeLdcu-01152-00366172-00366512 workplaces earning a special Minuteman
GOKJuJeLdcu-01153-00366513-00366822 flag to fly over their plant if all
GOKJuJeLdcu-01154-00366823-00367663 workers belong to the 10% club
GOKJuJeLdcu-01155-00367664-00368419 topic Hollywood Hollywood studios also
GOKJuJeLdcu-01156-00368420-00368635 went all out for the war effort as
GOKJuJeLdcu-01157-00368636-00368920 Studios encouraged their stars such as
GOKJuJeLdcu-01158-00368921-00369285 Clark Gable and James Stewart to enlist
GOKJuJeLdcu-01159-00369286-00369574 Hollywood had military units that made
GOKJuJeLdcu-01160-00369575-00369865 training films Ronald Reagan narrated
GOKJuJeLdcu-01161-00369866-00370219 many of them most of all Hollywood made
GOKJuJeLdcu-01162-00370220-00370441 hundreds of war movies that in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01163-00370442-00370669 coordination with the Office of War
GOKJuJeLdcu-01164-00370670-00371026 Information OWI taught Americans what
GOKJuJeLdcu-01165-00371027-00371251 was happening and who the heroes and the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01166-00371252-00371623 villains were 90 million people went to
GOKJuJeLdcu-01167-00371624-00371917 the movies every week some of the most
GOKJuJeLdcu-01168-00371918-00372196 highly regarded films during this period
GOKJuJeLdcu-01169-00372197-00372547 included Casablanca mrs. Miniver going
GOKJuJeLdcu-01170-00372548-00372840 my way and Yankee Doodle Dandy
GOKJuJeLdcu-01171-00372841-00373138 even before active American involvement
GOKJuJeLdcu-01172-00373139-00373408 in the war the popular Three Stooges
GOKJuJeLdcu-01173-00373409-00373684 comic trio were lampooning the Nazi
GOKJuJeLdcu-01174-00373685-00373972 German leadership and Nazis in general
GOKJuJeLdcu-01175-00373973-00374205 with a number of Short subject films
GOKJuJeLdcu-01176-00374206-00374530 starting with you nasty spy released in
GOKJuJeLdcu-01177-00374531-00374836 January 1940 the very first Hollywood
GOKJuJeLdcu-01178-00374837-00375130 film of any length to satirize Hitler
GOKJuJeLdcu-01179-00375131-00375382 and the Nazis nearly two years before
GOKJuJeLdcu-01180-00375383-00375658 the United States was drawn into World
GOKJuJeLdcu-01181-00375659-00376126 War two cartoons and short subjects were
GOKJuJeLdcu-01182-00376127-00376393 a major sign of the times as Warner
GOKJuJeLdcu-01183-00376394-00376698 Brothers Studios and Disney Studios gave
GOKJuJeLdcu-01184-00376699-00376951 unprecedented aid to the war effort by
GOKJuJeLdcu-01185-00376952-00377155 creating cartoons that were both
GOKJuJeLdcu-01186-00377156-00377416 patriotic and humorous and also
GOKJuJeLdcu-01187-00377417-00377680 contributed to remind moviegoers of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01188-00377681-00377956 wartime activities such as rationing and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01189-00377957-00378268 scrap drives war bond purchases and the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01190-00378269-00378634 creation of Victory Gardens Warner
GOKJuJeLdcu-01191-00378635-00378892 shorts such as Daffy the commando
GOKJuJeLdcu-01192-00378893-00379168 draftee Daffy hair meets hair and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01193-00379169-00379363 Russian Rhapsody are particularly
GOKJuJeLdcu-01194-00379364-00379588 remembered for the biting wit and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01195-00379589-00379789 unflinching mockery of the enemy
GOKJuJeLdcu-01196-00379790-00380059 particularly Adolf Hitler Hideki Tojo
GOKJuJeLdcu-01197-00380060-00380470 and Hermann Goering their cartoons of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01198-00380471-00380704 private snafu produced for the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01199-00380705-00381014 military's training films
GOKJuJeLdcu-01200-00381015-00381301 serve to remind many military men of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01201-00381302-00381539 importance of following proper procedure
GOKJuJeLdcu-01202-00381540-00381900 during wartime for their own safety
GOKJuJeLdcu-01203-00381901-00382201 hanna-barbera also contributed to the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01204-00382202-00382469 war effort with slyly pro-us short
GOKJuJeLdcu-01205-00382470-00382741 cartoon the Yankee Doodle mouse with
GOKJuJeLdcu-01206-00382742-00382900 leftenant
GOKJuJeLdcu-01207-00382901-00383224 Jerry Mouse as the hero and Tom cat as
GOKJuJeLdcu-01208-00383225-00383669 the enemy to heighten the suspense
GOKJuJeLdcu-01209-00383670-00383935 Hollywood needed to feature attacks on
GOKJuJeLdcu-01210-00383936-00384221 American soil and obtained inspirations
GOKJuJeLdcu-01211-00384222-00384406 for dramatic stories from the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01212-00384407-00384541 Philippines
GOKJuJeLdcu-01213-00384542-00384896 indeed the Philippines became a home
GOKJuJeLdcu-01214-00384897-00385225 front that showed the American Way of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01215-00385226-00385581 life threatened by the Japanese enemy
GOKJuJeLdcu-01216-00385582-00385879 especially popular with the film's Texas
GOKJuJeLdcu-01217-00385880-00386475 - Bataan 1940 - corregidor 1943 Bataan
GOKJuJeLdcu-01218-00386476-00386929 1943 they were expendable 1945 and back
GOKJuJeLdcu-01219-00386930-00387371 to Bataan 1945 the OWI had to approve
GOKJuJeLdcu-01220-00387372-00387654 every film before they could be exported
GOKJuJeLdcu-01221-00387655-00388024 to facilitate the process the OWI z'
GOKJuJeLdcu-01222-00388025-00388346 Bureau of Motion Pictures the MP worked
GOKJuJeLdcu-01223-00388347-00388595 with producers directors and writers
GOKJuJeLdcu-01224-00388596-00388871 before the shooting started to make sure
GOKJuJeLdcu-01225-00388872-00389110 that the themes reflected patriotic
GOKJuJeLdcu-01226-00389111-00389410 values while Hollywood had been
GOKJuJeLdcu-01227-00389411-00389642 generally non-political before the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-01228-00389643-00389899 the Liberals who controlled OWI
GOKJuJeLdcu-01229-00389900-00390137 encouraged the expression of New Deal
GOKJuJeLdcu-01230-00390138-00390389 liberalism bearing in mind the huge
GOKJuJeLdcu-01231-00390390-00390610 domestic audience as well as an
GOKJuJeLdcu-01232-00390611-00390847 international audience that was equally
GOKJuJeLdcu-01233-00390848-00391426 large
GOKJuJeLdcu-01234-00391427-00391994 topic censorship
GOKJuJeLdcu-01235-00391995-00392267 the office of censorship published a
GOKJuJeLdcu-01236-00392268-00392522 code of conduct for newspapers magazines
GOKJuJeLdcu-01237-00392523-00392977 and broadcasters the office did not use
GOKJuJeLdcu-01238-00392978-00393212 government census to pre-approve all
GOKJuJeLdcu-01239-00393213-00393628 articles and radio programs it relied on
GOKJuJeLdcu-01240-00393629-00393962 voluntary cooperation to avoid subjects
GOKJuJeLdcu-01241-00393963-00394175 such as troop movements weather
GOKJuJeLdcu-01242-00394176-00394402 forecasts and the travels of the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01243-00394403-00394707 president that might aid the enemy
GOKJuJeLdcu-01244-00394708-00394943 journalists did not have to publish
GOKJuJeLdcu-01245-00394944-00395198 positive propaganda and like during
GOKJuJeLdcu-01246-00395199-00395819 World War one
GOKJuJeLdcu-01247-00395820-00396462 topic local activism
GOKJuJeLdcu-01248-00396463-00396732 one way to enlist everyone in the war
GOKJuJeLdcu-01249-00396733-00396971 effort was scrap collection called
GOKJuJeLdcu-01250-00396972-00397437 recycling decades later many everyday
GOKJuJeLdcu-01251-00397438-00397662 commodities were vital to the war effort
GOKJuJeLdcu-01252-00397663-00397950 and drives were organized to recycle
GOKJuJeLdcu-01253-00397951-00398223 such products as rubber tin waste
GOKJuJeLdcu-01254-00398224-00398484 kitchen fats a raw material for
GOKJuJeLdcu-01255-00398485-00398823 explosives newspaper lumber steel and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01256-00398824-00399231 many others popular phrases promoted by
GOKJuJeLdcu-01257-00399232-00399519 the government at the time were get into
GOKJuJeLdcu-01258-00399520-00399882 the scrap and get some cash for your
GOKJuJeLdcu-01259-00399883-00400224 trash a nominal sum was paid to the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01260-00400225-00400533 donor for many kinds of scrap items and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01261-00400534-00400950 Thomas Fats Waller even wrote and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01262-00400951-00401184 recorded a song with the latter title
GOKJuJeLdcu-01263-00401185-00401466 such commodities as rubber and tin
GOKJuJeLdcu-01264-00401467-00401730 remained highly important as recycled
GOKJuJeLdcu-01265-00401731-00402000 materials until the end of the war while
GOKJuJeLdcu-01266-00402001-00402240 others such as steel were critically
GOKJuJeLdcu-01267-00402241-00402612 needed at first war propaganda played a
GOKJuJeLdcu-01268-00402613-00402926 prominent role in many of these drives
GOKJuJeLdcu-01269-00402927-00403215 Nebraska had perhaps the most extensive
GOKJuJeLdcu-01270-00403216-00403467 and well organized drives it was
GOKJuJeLdcu-01271-00403468-00403695 mobilized by the Omaha World Herald
GOKJuJeLdcu-01272-00403696-00404358 newspaper
GOKJuJeLdcu-01273-00404359-00405129 topic attacks on US soil
GOKJuJeLdcu-01274-00405130-00405364 the Axis powers never launched a
GOKJuJeLdcu-01275-00405365-00405637 full-scale invasion of the United States
GOKJuJeLdcu-01276-00405638-00405913 there were attacks and acts of sabotage
GOKJuJeLdcu-01277-00405914-00406157 on US soil
GOKJuJeLdcu-01278-00406158-00406614 December 7th 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor
GOKJuJeLdcu-01279-00406615-00406943 a surprise attack that killed almost
GOKJuJeLdcu-01280-00406944-00407235 2,500 people in the then incorporated
GOKJuJeLdcu-01281-00407236-00407475 territory of Hawaii which caused the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01282-00407476-00407789 u.s. to enter the war the next day
GOKJuJeLdcu-01283-00407790-00408243 January August 1942 second happy time
GOKJuJeLdcu-01284-00408244-00408589 German u-boats engaged American ships of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01285-00408590-00409157 the u.s. East Coast February 23rd 1942
GOKJuJeLdcu-01286-00409158-00409414 bombardment of elwood a Japanese
GOKJuJeLdcu-01287-00409415-00409899 sabotage act on California March 4th
GOKJuJeLdcu-01288-00409900-00410232 1942 operation Kay a Japanese
GOKJuJeLdcu-01289-00410233-00410457 reconnaissance over Pearl Harbor
GOKJuJeLdcu-01290-00410458-00410724 following the attack on December 7th
GOKJuJeLdcu-01291-00410725-00410933 1941
GOKJuJeLdcu-01292-00410934-00411574 June 3rd 1942 to August 15 1943 Aleutian
GOKJuJeLdcu-01293-00411575-00411837 Islands campaign the battle for the then
GOKJuJeLdcu-01294-00411838-00412314 incorporated territory of Alaska June 21
GOKJuJeLdcu-01295-00412315-00412774 to 22 1942 bombardment of Fort Stevens
GOKJuJeLdcu-01296-00412775-00413103 the second attack on a US military base
GOKJuJeLdcu-01297-00413104-00413534 in the continental US in World War 2
GOKJuJeLdcu-01298-00413535-00414108 September 9th 1942 in September 29 1942
GOKJuJeLdcu-01299-00414109-00414418 lookout air raids the only attack by
GOKJuJeLdcu-01300-00414418-00414697 enemy aircraft on the US mainland and
GOKJuJeLdcu-01301-00414697-00414945 the second enemy aircraft attack on the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01302-00414946-00415412 US continent in World War 2 November
GOKJuJeLdcu-01303-00415413-00415878 1944 2 April 1945 Fugo balloon bombs
GOKJuJeLdcu-01304-00415879-00416226 over 9,000 300 of them were launched by
GOKJuJeLdcu-01305-00416227-00416518 Japan across the Pacific Ocean towards
GOKJuJeLdcu-01306-00416518-00416701 the US mainland with the goal of
GOKJuJeLdcu-01307-00416702-00416914 starting forest fires
GOKJuJeLdcu-01308-00416914-00417453 on may 5th 1945 six US civilians were
GOKJuJeLdcu-01309-00417454-00417676 killed in Oregon when they stumbled upon
GOKJuJeLdcu-01310-00417677-00417960 a bomb and it exploded the only deaths
GOKJuJeLdcu-01311-00417961-00418243 to occur on the US mainland as a result
GOKJuJeLdcu-01312-00418243-00418574 of enemy action during World War two
GOKJuJeLdcu-01313-00418575-00419062 you
GOKJuJeLdcu-01314-00419063-00419658 topic see also
GOKJuJeLdcu-01315-00419659-00419941 military history of the United States
GOKJuJeLdcu-01316-00419942-00420370 during World War two American minority
GOKJuJeLdcu-01317-00420371-00420791 groups in World War two American music
GOKJuJeLdcu-01318-00420792-00421000 during World War two
GOKJuJeLdcu-01319-00421001-00421633 GI generation history of Texas hashtag
GOKJuJeLdcu-01320-00421634-00422024 World War III home front during World
GOKJuJeLdcu-01321-00422025-00422110 War two
GOKJuJeLdcu-01322-00422111-00422483 four rest of world Japanese occupation
GOKJuJeLdcu-01323-00422484-00422893 of the Philippines United States home
GOKJuJeLdcu-01324-00422894-00423281 front during World War one woman's land
GOKJuJeLdcu-01325-00423282-00423722 army of America Nazism in the United
GOKJuJeLdcu-01326-00423722-00424360 States US government films why we fight
GOKJuJeLdcu-01327-00424360-00424893 black marketing campus on the March
GOKJuJeLdcu-01328-00424894-00425512 Henry Brown farmer manpower Negro
GOKJuJeLdcu-01329-00425513-00425924 colleges in wartime the arm behind the
GOKJuJeLdcu-01330-00425925-00426446 Army equals equals notes
GQemRsxo9Iu-00000-00000024-00002151 [Music]
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GQemRsxo9Iu-00002-00002341-00004165 [Music]
GQemRsxo9Iu-00003-00004166-00006494 [Music]
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GQemRsxo9Iu-00010-00014159-00014476 time
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GQemRsxo9Iu-00014-00018210-00019679 [Music]
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GQemRsxo9Iu-00019-00022802-00024327 [Music]
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GR1dtJvamZ0-00000-00000000-00000214 the Green Party having case for publicly
GR1dtJvamZ0-00001-00000215-00000505 funded election square it takes the big
GR1dtJvamZ0-00002-00000506-00000868 money out of it you have a really brief
GR1dtJvamZ0-00003-00000869-00001085 period of election and then a
GR1dtJvamZ0-00004-00001086-00001279 ranked-choice election so maybe a you
GR1dtJvamZ0-00005-00001280-00001623 know a two months window to do this I
GR1dtJvamZ0-00006-00001625-00001847 can't understand though at the state
GR1dtJvamZ0-00007-00001848-00002147 state level on how you can easily
GR1dtJvamZ0-00008-00002148-00002546 consume a year or more if you're truly
GR1dtJvamZ0-00009-00002547-00002800 campaigning statewide and trying to
GR1dtJvamZ0-00010-00002801-00003052 build support on this is a huge state
GR1dtJvamZ0-00011-00003053-00003460 and covering you know all the counties
GR1dtJvamZ0-00012-00003461-00003995 you know multiple times you know because
GR1dtJvamZ0-00013-00003996-00004322 I started running i think in February i
GR1dtJvamZ0-00014-00004323-00004786 started campaigning and it just takes so
GR1dtJvamZ0-00015-00004787-00004991 it takes a great deal of time to really
GR1dtJvamZ0-00016-00004992-00005288 cover cover in a turf and I you know I
GR1dtJvamZ0-00017-00005289-00005704 did just enough to where they were they
GR1dtJvamZ0-00018-00005705-00005995 bother to include me and some really
GR1dtJvamZ0-00019-00005996-00006131 happy to be included in this first
GR1dtJvamZ0-00020-00006132-00006457 debate and it'll be very important for
GR1dtJvamZ0-00021-00006458-00006686 the race
GRKNaaJBjWI-00000-00004912-00005378 very fast true yeah yeah I'm teaching
GRKNaaJBjWI-00001-00005379-00005831 these studies that you mentioned so it's
GRKNaaJBjWI-00002-00005832-00006116 a well first it's very much related we
GRKNaaJBjWI-00003-00006117-00006395 still are in the IT business and with a
GRKNaaJBjWI-00004-00006396-00006698 lot of software components they never
GRKNaaJBjWI-00005-00006698-00006892 challenged the quality of these patterns
GRKNaaJBjWI-00006-00006893-00007175 but they agree with you that in some
GRKNaaJBjWI-00007-00007176-00007487 industries the role of patterns can be
GRKNaaJBjWI-00008-00007488-00007960 challenged and I am open to that but I
GRKNaaJBjWI-00009-00007961-00008249 don't agree with the idea that consists
GRKNaaJBjWI-00010-00008250-00008524 in saying Oh entrepreneur do not
GRKNaaJBjWI-00011-00008525-00008873 consider that as a key driver of their
GRKNaaJBjWI-00012-00008874-00009194 success or the success of a new venture
GRKNaaJBjWI-00013-00009195-00009401 you have first mover advantage you have
GRKNaaJBjWI-00014-00009402-00009664 and of course you have other mechanism
GRKNaaJBjWI-00015-00009665-00009845 and they are complimentary with the
GRKNaaJBjWI-00016-00009846-00010213 patent system but it's like if you would
GRKNaaJBjWI-00017-00010214-00010603 ask the question to Nike what will be
GRKNaaJBjWI-00018-00010604-00010903 the success factor of its next shoe on
GRKNaaJBjWI-00019-00010904-00011216 the market do you think they will ever
GRKNaaJBjWI-00020-00011217-00011666 mention trademark regulation no because
GRKNaaJBjWI-00021-00011667-00011894 they take it as granted that's exactly
GRKNaaJBjWI-00022-00011895-00012137 my point want you if you have a good
GRKNaaJBjWI-00023-00012138-00012412 patent system it will not become the key
GRKNaaJBjWI-00024-00012413-00012634 factor of success and entrepreneurship
GRKNaaJBjWI-00025-00012635-00012899 it's like having you have a row then you
GRKNaaJBjWI-00026-00012900-00013133 can drive on it so it's not the key
GRKNaaJBjWI-00027-00013134-00013316 factor but it's part of the framework
GRKNaaJBjWI-00028-00013316-00013625 condition in some very specific
GRKNaaJBjWI-00029-00013626-00013985 technologies we can talk about strategy
GRKNaaJBjWI-00030-00013986-00014203 behavior and how it may
GRKNaaJBjWI-00031-00014204-00014425 innovation that I fully agree with you
GRKNaaJBjWI-00032-00014426-00014766 but we must think about that carefully
GRKNaaJBjWI-00033-00014768-00015189 and we could continue this debate for a
GRKNaaJBjWI-00034-00015190-00015459 long time it happens kaylee excites
GRKNaaJBjWI-00035-00015460-00015766 people and very different reactions
GRKNaaJBjWI-00036-00015766-00015942 we're going to take a break now we're
GRKNaaJBjWI-00037-00015943-00016144 gonna have a cup of coffee and we'll
GRKNaaJBjWI-00038-00016144-00016500 come back for our next panelists in 15
GRKNaaJBjWI-00039-00016501-00017853 minutes
GRKNaaJBjWI-00040-00017854-00018059 you
GU5BqPtD6WY-00000-00000079-00002883 [Music]
GU5BqPtD6WY-00001-00002884-00003159 so
GU5BqPtD6WY-00003-00007084-00007279 so
GU5BqPtD6WY-00004-00007280-00008983 [Music]
GU5BqPtD6WY-00005-00008984-00009192 you
GUqCL67cD4U-00000-00000044-00000204 [Applause]
GUqCL67cD4U-00001-00000206-00000371 thank you very much that concludes
GUqCL67cD4U-00002-00000372-00000607 general questions we turn now to First
GUqCL67cD4U-00003-00000608-00000763 Minister's questions and we start with
GUqCL67cD4U-00004-00000764-00001000 question number one from Jackson Carla
GUqCL67cD4U-00005-00001001-00001258 can I thank colleagues from across the
GUqCL67cD4U-00006-00001259-00001394 chamber for their well-intentioned
GUqCL67cD4U-00007-00001395-00001676 advice freely given on what I should do
GUqCL67cD4U-00008-00001677-00002002 now and for the anecdotes many have
GUqCL67cD4U-00009-00002003-00002180 offered with the caveat that they were
GUqCL67cD4U-00010-00002181-00002363 never quite brave enough to speak them
GUqCL67cD4U-00011-00002364-00002513 themselves but thought that I might like
GUqCL67cD4U-00012-00002514-00002683 to have a try I'll probably pass them
GUqCL67cD4U-00013-00002684-00002870 that I'm presiding officer may I begin
GUqCL67cD4U-00014-00002871-00003100 by stating what a privilege and delight
GUqCL67cD4U-00015-00003101-00003278 it is to stand here is the first man in
GUqCL67cD4U-00016-00003279-00003529 13 years to face the First Minister at
GUqCL67cD4U-00017-00003530-00003679 questions on behalf of the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00018-00003680-00003851 Conservatives and I hope that in
GUqCL67cD4U-00019-00003852-00004004 communities all across Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-00020-00004004-00004154 everybody will see that there is indeed
GUqCL67cD4U-00021-00004155-00004415 no glass ceiling for ambition and the
GUqCL67cD4U-00022-00004416-00004604 Scottish Conservatives they too
GUqCL67cD4U-00023-00004605-00004865 they too can aspire to lead if only
GUqCL67cD4U-00024-00004866-00004993 temporarily
GUqCL67cD4U-00025-00004994-00005261 First Minister I look forward to our
GUqCL67cD4U-00026-00005262-00005429 weekly exchange of pleasantries over the
GUqCL67cD4U-00027-00005430-00005702 next few months I do so fully respecting
GUqCL67cD4U-00028-00005703-00005891 the office of First Minister but also
GUqCL67cD4U-00029-00005892-00006095 because and this is a failure of
GUqCL67cD4U-00030-00006096-00006352 character on my part which my party can
GUqCL67cD4U-00031-00006353-00006614 scarcely forgive let alone understand I
GUqCL67cD4U-00032-00006615-00006873 actually quite like the First Minister
GUqCL67cD4U-00033-00006875-00007262 however I am sure I'm sure neither of us
GUqCL67cD4U-00034-00007263-00007487 will allow this weakness on my part to
GUqCL67cD4U-00035-00007488-00007681 stand in the way of robust exchange and
GUqCL67cD4U-00036-00007683-00007895 so to business First Minister just how
GUqCL67cD4U-00037-00007895-00008123 badly lay it down have the thousands of
GUqCL67cD4U-00038-00008123-00008314 Scottish women fitted with a mesh device
GUqCL67cD4U-00039-00008315-00008795 beam First Minister firstly can I begin
GUqCL67cD4U-00040-00008796-00009005 by welcoming Jackson Carroll off to his
GUqCL67cD4U-00041-00009006-00009299 temporary pleas asking these questions
GUqCL67cD4U-00042-00009300-00009470 and let me say at the outset I'm very
GUqCL67cD4U-00043-00009471-00009706 proud to be the last woman standing at
GUqCL67cD4U-00044-00009707-00009998 First Minister's Questions and I'm not
GUqCL67cD4U-00045-00009999-00010238 sure if I'm expected to reciprocate all
GUqCL67cD4U-00046-00010239-00010414 of the nice things that Jackson Carol or
GUqCL67cD4U-00047-00010415-00010588 said to me at this stage now maybe just
GUqCL67cD4U-00048-00010589-00010919 at gloss over that for the moment it
GUqCL67cD4U-00049-00010920-00011141 kept on to the substance of Jackson
GUqCL67cD4U-00050-00011142-00011276 Karla's question because it's an
GUqCL67cD4U-00051-00011277-00011459 important one I know it's one a subject
GUqCL67cD4U-00052-00011460-00011645 that he has taken a very close interest
GUqCL67cD4U-00053-00011646-00012074 and over a period of time in terms of
GUqCL67cD4U-00054-00012075-00012359 the women affected I have deep and they
GUqCL67cD4U-00055-00012360-00012530 profound sympathy for what they have
GUqCL67cD4U-00056-00012531-00012752 gone through and for the position that
GUqCL67cD4U-00057-00012753-00012910 they have phoned themselves and I can't
GUqCL67cD4U-00058-00012911-00013088 begin to imagine at the pain and
GUqCL67cD4U-00059-00013088-00013253 suffering that many of them have
GUqCL67cD4U-00060-00013254-00013352 experienced
GUqCL67cD4U-00061-00013353-00013553 that's why of course the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00062-00013554-00013715 government has acted through setting up
GUqCL67cD4U-00063-00013716-00013919 all the review and for the work that has
GUqCL67cD4U-00064-00013919-00014122 flowed from that review and of course in
GUqCL67cD4U-00065-00014124-00014411 her first few weeks as health secretary
GUqCL67cD4U-00066-00014412-00014719 Jean Freeman announced what is
GUqCL67cD4U-00067-00014719-00015056 effectively a ban a temporary hope for
GUqCL67cD4U-00068-00015057-00015322 all mesh procedures and that will be
GUqCL67cD4U-00069-00015324-00015593 lifted only when a new restricted use
GUqCL67cD4U-00070-00015594-00015956 protocol is put in place and that will
GUqCL67cD4U-00071-00015957-00016166 ensure that procedures are only carried
GUqCL67cD4U-00072-00016166-00016436 out in future in the most exceptional of
GUqCL67cD4U-00073-00016437-00016652 circumstances and of course subject a
GUqCL67cD4U-00074-00016653-00016832 very robust process of approval and
GUqCL67cD4U-00075-00016833-00017114 fully informed consent I wasn't in the
GUqCL67cD4U-00076-00017115-00017279 chamber for the health Secretary's
GUqCL67cD4U-00077-00017280-00017456 statement but I did hear some of it and
GUqCL67cD4U-00078-00017457-00017684 on that occasion indeed I think I heard
GUqCL67cD4U-00079-00017685-00017918 Jackson Carroll welcoming the action
GUqCL67cD4U-00080-00017919-00018080 that the health secretary had taken and
GUqCL67cD4U-00081-00018081-00018238 I hope he will do so again today
GUqCL67cD4U-00082-00018239-00018581 Jackson Karla this has surely been the
GUqCL67cD4U-00083-00018582-00018776 greatest self inflicted health scandal
GUqCL67cD4U-00084-00018777-00019016 since the letter made in the 1960s and
GUqCL67cD4U-00085-00019017-00019277 across this chamber set MSPs who have
GUqCL67cD4U-00086-00019278-00019454 laid with determination to expose it as
GUqCL67cD4U-00087-00019455-00019730 such in particular Alec Neil Neil Finlay
GUqCL67cD4U-00088-00019731-00020015 Runa Makai angus mcdoogal McDonald and
GUqCL67cD4U-00089-00020016-00020255 Joanne Lamont and in the gallery today
GUqCL67cD4U-00090-00020256-00020525 are women who many regard as outstanding
GUqCL67cD4U-00091-00020526-00020719 examples of leadership and courage
GUqCL67cD4U-00092-00020720-00020906 Elaine Holmes who led the public
GUqCL67cD4U-00093-00020907-00021182 petitions process and mesh Marian Scott
GUqCL67cD4U-00094-00021183-00021389 the journalist who led so successfully
GUqCL67cD4U-00095-00021390-00021587 and campaigned in the issue and many
GUqCL67cD4U-00096-00021588-00021746 other measures of Ivor's who are
GUqCL67cD4U-00097-00021747-00021956 watching today's exchanges at home to me
GUqCL67cD4U-00098-00021957-00022187 they are heroes recognized as such
GUqCL67cD4U-00099-00022188-00022364 across Scotland the UK and
GUqCL67cD4U-00100-00022365-00022535 internationally for all they have
GUqCL67cD4U-00101-00022536-00022669 achieved and they deserve the
GUqCL67cD4U-00102-00022670-00022871 congratulations and the appreciation of
GUqCL67cD4U-00103-00022872-00023050 every one of us forever thing that they
GUqCL67cD4U-00104-00023051-00023306 have done First Minister during our
GUqCL67cD4U-00105-00023307-00023525 October recess the Australian government
GUqCL67cD4U-00106-00023526-00023777 issued a fool and formal apology to all
GUqCL67cD4U-00107-00023778-00023947 those whose lives have been compromised
GUqCL67cD4U-00108-00023948-00024164 by mesh he responsive what that apology
GUqCL67cD4U-00109-00024165-00024365 said on behalf of the Australian
GUqCL67cD4U-00110-00024366-00024608 Government I say sorry to all of those
GUqCL67cD4U-00111-00024609-00024806 women with the historic agony and pain
GUqCL67cD4U-00112-00024807-00025040 that has come from mesh implementation
GUqCL67cD4U-00113-00025041-00025310 which have led to horrific outcomes will
GUqCL67cD4U-00114-00025311-00025484 the First Minister now follow suit and
GUqCL67cD4U-00115-00025485-00025661 on behalf of the Scottish government
GUqCL67cD4U-00116-00025662-00025858 today match that apology to all the
GUqCL67cD4U-00117-00025860-00026097 women in Scotland who have suffered
GUqCL67cD4U-00118-00026098-00026616 first minister tonight especially I have
GUqCL67cD4U-00119-00026617-00026874 Express apology previously to the women
GUqCL67cD4U-00120-00026875-00027054 who have suffered I know the previous
GUqCL67cD4U-00121-00027055-00027264 health secretary sooner Robertson has
GUqCL67cD4U-00122-00027264-00027405 done so and gene Freeman has also done
GUqCL67cD4U-00123-00027406-00027573 so but for the avoidance of any doubt
GUqCL67cD4U-00124-00027574-00027770 and without any equivocation let me say
GUqCL67cD4U-00125-00027772-00027957 today on behalf of the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00126-00027958-00028248 Government I apologise unreservedly to
GUqCL67cD4U-00127-00028249-00028443 any woman who has suffered because of
GUqCL67cD4U-00128-00028444-00028716 mesh procedures the Scottish Government
GUqCL67cD4U-00129-00028717-00028935 has acted I know Jackson Carol all
GUqCL67cD4U-00130-00028936-00029124 because of his interest in this is aware
GUqCL67cD4U-00131-00029125-00029418 that medical devices across the UK are
GUqCL67cD4U-00132-00029419-00029562 regulated by the medicines and
GUqCL67cD4U-00133-00029563-00029763 Healthcare Products regulatory agency
GUqCL67cD4U-00134-00029764-00029994 that is a reserved body the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00135-00029995-00030210 government therefore cannot totally ban
GUqCL67cD4U-00136-00030211-00030426 mesh but the actions we have taken for
GUqCL67cD4U-00137-00030427-00030582 example the suspension of the use of
GUqCL67cD4U-00138-00030583-00030864 mesh in 2014 led to a significant
GUqCL67cD4U-00139-00030864-00031182 reduction in the use of mesh implants
GUqCL67cD4U-00140-00031183-00031329 and the further action that gene Freeman
GUqCL67cD4U-00141-00031330-00031545 announced some weeks ago
GUqCL67cD4U-00142-00031545-00031914 to temporarily halt procedures until we
GUqCL67cD4U-00143-00031914-00032076 put in place a new restricted use
GUqCL67cD4U-00144-00032077-00032316 protocol is the right action and again I
GUqCL67cD4U-00145-00032317-00032520 hope members who have campaigned on this
GUqCL67cD4U-00146-00032520-00032658 across the chamber will welcome that
GUqCL67cD4U-00147-00032658-00032970 today Jackson Carla thank you for that
GUqCL67cD4U-00148-00032971-00033105 and on the MHRA
GUqCL67cD4U-00149-00033106-00033312 I have I have indicated that Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00150-00033313-00033558 conservers will support a representation
GUqCL67cD4U-00151-00033559-00033740 to the UK government on that issue
GUqCL67cD4U-00152-00033741-00033963 because this isn't really a question of
GUqCL67cD4U-00153-00033964-00034125 whether a process has devolved a
GUqCL67cD4U-00154-00034126-00034293 reserved it's about a process which has
GUqCL67cD4U-00155-00034294-00034497 failed and we have to ensure that such
GUqCL67cD4U-00156-00034498-00034635 an incident doesn't happen again in the
GUqCL67cD4U-00157-00034636-00034706 future
GUqCL67cD4U-00158-00034707-00034920 exposing mesh has not been a party
GUqCL67cD4U-00159-00034921-00035145 political initiative and with that said
GUqCL67cD4U-00160-00035146-00035388 the singular serious mistake in a
GUqCL67cD4U-00161-00035389-00035517 Scottish Government's record on this
GUqCL67cD4U-00162-00035518-00035721 issue was its response to the no way to
GUqCL67cD4U-00163-00035722-00035970 discredited review and to mesh regarded
GUqCL67cD4U-00164-00035971-00036159 by women affected and key clinicians
GUqCL67cD4U-00165-00036160-00036414 such as whey lager as a whitewash indeed
GUqCL67cD4U-00166-00036415-00036642 nearly a hundred MSPs signed a charter
GUqCL67cD4U-00167-00036643-00036912 to that effect in parliament now at the
GUqCL67cD4U-00168-00036913-00037020 time the first minister and health
GUqCL67cD4U-00169-00037021-00037191 secretary invited professor Allison
GUqCL67cD4U-00170-00037192-00037428 Britain's report on the process but not
GUqCL67cD4U-00171-00037429-00037590 the findings of that review which the
GUqCL67cD4U-00172-00037591-00037767 state would stand in the event as the
GUqCL67cD4U-00173-00037768-00037911 First Minister indicated the new Health
GUqCL67cD4U-00174-00037912-00038142 Secretary abandoned that position with
GUqCL67cD4U-00175-00038143-00038307 the robust and welcomed intervention
GUqCL67cD4U-00176-00038308-00038367 last month
GUqCL67cD4U-00177-00038368-00038565 now professor Britain's report is now
GUqCL67cD4U-00178-00038566-00038853 complete there is no first nor second
GUqCL67cD4U-00179-00038854-00039084 draft amended by any self-interested
GUqCL67cD4U-00180-00039085-00039264 third party there is just her
GUqCL67cD4U-00181-00039265-00039455 unvarnished report
GUqCL67cD4U-00182-00039456-00039689 it is no or we'll imminently be in the
GUqCL67cD4U-00183-00039690-00039896 hands of ministers will the First
GUqCL67cD4U-00184-00039897-00040064 Minister agree today but to publish
GUqCL67cD4U-00185-00040065-00040257 professor Britain's report without delay
GUqCL67cD4U-00186-00040258-00040623 and also to say no that she expects at
GUqCL67cD4U-00187-00040624-00040814 least to accept its findings and
GUqCL67cD4U-00188-00040815-00041021 implement the recommendations made in it
GUqCL67cD4U-00189-00041022-00041576 in full fresh Minister then I will come
GUqCL67cD4U-00190-00041577-00041858 to all of them in terms of the MHRD I
GUqCL67cD4U-00191-00041859-00042170 welcome Jax and Tara laws offer to help
GUqCL67cD4U-00192-00042171-00042362 put pressure on the MH re the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00193-00042363-00042566 Government of course has already raised
GUqCL67cD4U-00194-00042567-00042719 these concerns and I would certainly
GUqCL67cD4U-00195-00042720-00042867 look forward to hearing in court the
GUqCL67cD4U-00196-00042868-00043026 Scottish Conservatives that are going to
GUqCL67cD4U-00197-00043027-00043208 do to add their voice to the calls that
GUqCL67cD4U-00198-00043209-00043451 we have already made and yes I would
GUqCL67cD4U-00199-00043452-00043658 agree with Jackson Carroll or that what
GUqCL67cD4U-00200-00043659-00043838 is most important here is this as a
GUqCL67cD4U-00201-00043839-00044004 procedure that has field but of course
GUqCL67cD4U-00202-00044005-00044235 it is it relevant whether it is a
GUqCL67cD4U-00203-00044236-00044417 devolved a reserved matter in terms of
GUqCL67cD4U-00204-00044418-00044552 what the Scottish government is able to
GUqCL67cD4U-00205-00044553-00044660 do and that's why I think it is
GUqCL67cD4U-00206-00044661-00044900 legitimate to point to the fact that the
GUqCL67cD4U-00207-00044901-00045344 MHRD is a reserved body in terms of the
GUqCL67cD4U-00208-00045345-00045515 review I think it's important firstly to
GUqCL67cD4U-00209-00045516-00045674 see that the review findings were
GUqCL67cD4U-00210-00045675-00045957 similar to those in recent reviews that
GUqCL67cD4U-00211-00045958-00046104 were carried out in Northern Ireland
GUqCL67cD4U-00212-00046105-00046317 Wales England and in some countries of
GUqCL67cD4U-00213-00046318-00046511 course the European Union however
GUqCL67cD4U-00214-00046512-00046796 professor Allison Britton was asked to
GUqCL67cD4U-00215-00046797-00047054 review the process of the independent
GUqCL67cD4U-00216-00047055-00047270 review I understand ministers have only
GUqCL67cD4U-00217-00047271-00047420 just received that report and it is our
GUqCL67cD4U-00218-00047421-00047696 intention to publish that report and of
GUqCL67cD4U-00219-00047697-00047957 course to accept and implement the
GUqCL67cD4U-00220-00047958-00048123 recommendations or where we think they
GUqCL67cD4U-00221-00048124-00048245 are not appropriate to set out very
GUqCL67cD4U-00222-00048246-00048413 clearly to Parliament why that is the
GUqCL67cD4U-00223-00048414-00048617 case now low Parliament to form its own
GUqCL67cD4U-00224-00048618-00048905 conclusions on that we are determined to
GUqCL67cD4U-00225-00048906-00049160 do everything that we can to recognize
GUqCL67cD4U-00226-00049161-00049329 the suffering that has been experienced
GUqCL67cD4U-00227-00049330-00049589 by women but more importantly to ensure
GUqCL67cD4U-00228-00049590-00049799 that this suffering is not repeated by
GUqCL67cD4U-00229-00049800-00050015 other women in future it has been a
GUqCL67cD4U-00230-00050016-00050213 cross-party campaign and i hope it will
GUqCL67cD4U-00231-00050214-00050507 continue in that vein johnson garland I
GUqCL67cD4U-00232-00050508-00050754 thank the First Minister for everything
GUqCL67cD4U-00233-00050755-00050936 she has said there for the women
GUqCL67cD4U-00234-00050937-00051152 concerned an apology and the First
GUqCL67cD4U-00235-00051153-00051273 Minister has offered one is a necessary
GUqCL67cD4U-00236-00051274-00051527 cathartic act however small and
GUqCL67cD4U-00237-00051528-00051692 practical actions can also make a
GUqCL67cD4U-00238-00051693-00051950 significant change to their lives now
GUqCL67cD4U-00239-00051951-00052214 for example responsibility for the blue
GUqCL67cD4U-00240-00052215-00052406 badge scheme rests with the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00241-00052407-00052607 government however many of the women
GUqCL67cD4U-00242-00052608-00052782 whose mobility has been impaired
GUqCL67cD4U-00243-00052783-00053019 by mesh are currently simply not
GUqCL67cD4U-00244-00053020-00053316 eligible to them access to the blue
GUqCL67cD4U-00245-00053316-00053547 badge scheme those in wheelchairs and on
GUqCL67cD4U-00246-00053548-00053804 crutches would be a hugely welcome and
GUqCL67cD4U-00247-00053805-00054075 practical advantage now this may not be
GUqCL67cD4U-00248-00054076-00054263 the biggest political ask of the day but
GUqCL67cD4U-00249-00054264-00054510 it is an important issue to the women
GUqCL67cD4U-00250-00054511-00054716 involved and we could resolve to do
GUqCL67cD4U-00251-00054717-00054924 something about it now so will the First
GUqCL67cD4U-00252-00054925-00055059 Minister agree today to instruct
GUqCL67cD4U-00253-00055060-00055275 ministers and officials to review access
GUqCL67cD4U-00254-00055276-00055485 the blue badge scheme to offer those who
GUqCL67cD4U-00255-00055486-00055631 have seen their mobility severely
GUqCL67cD4U-00256-00055632-00055854 impaired by mesh their singular and
GUqCL67cD4U-00257-00055854-00056040 practical improvement to the future
GUqCL67cD4U-00258-00056041-00056661 lives and well-being has made their yes
GUqCL67cD4U-00259-00056662-00056879 I will ask the cabinet secretary for
GUqCL67cD4U-00260-00056880-00057036 Social Security to work with HUD
GUqCL67cD4U-00261-00057037-00057194 officials to look at what action can be
GUqCL67cD4U-00262-00057195-00057246 taken
GUqCL67cD4U-00263-00057247-00057549 I would think although I don't want to
GUqCL67cD4U-00264-00057550-00057830 at this stage give Parliament assurances
GUqCL67cD4U-00265-00057832-00057966 I don't know whether we can deliver them
GUqCL67cD4U-00266-00057966-00058122 quickly but I would think this is not
GUqCL67cD4U-00267-00058123-00058290 necessarily a particularly complicated
GUqCL67cD4U-00268-00058291-00058406 issue
GUqCL67cD4U-00269-00058407-00058550 local authorities of course when it
GUqCL67cD4U-00270-00058551-00058812 comes to blue badges will be relevant in
GUqCL67cD4U-00271-00058813-00058959 these discussions as well but I'm sure
GUqCL67cD4U-00272-00058960-00059199 the social security at cabinet secretary
GUqCL67cD4U-00273-00059200-00059366 would be happy to talk to Jackson
GUqCL67cD4U-00274-00059367-00059529 Carroll about how we can take this
GUqCL67cD4U-00275-00059529-00059709 forward once we've had an opportunity to
GUqCL67cD4U-00276-00059710-00060067 have officials look at it in more detail
GUqCL67cD4U-00277-00060069-00060429 question umber to Richard Leonard Thank
GUqCL67cD4U-00278-00060429-00060544 You presiding officer
GUqCL67cD4U-00279-00060545-00060876 today's audit Scotland report is a
GUqCL67cD4U-00280-00060877-00061110 damning indictment of this government
GUqCL67cD4U-00281-00061111-00061307 mismanagement of our National Health
GUqCL67cD4U-00282-00061308-00061698 Service it says and I quote the NHS in
GUqCL67cD4U-00283-00061699-00061991 Scotland is not in a financially
GUqCL67cD4U-00284-00061992-00062282 sustainable position and performance
GUqCL67cD4U-00285-00062283-00062553 against national targets is declining
GUqCL67cD4U-00286-00062554-00062898 and it is not the only report that has
GUqCL67cD4U-00287-00062899-00063191 raised alarming concerns about Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00288-00063192-00063486 government health spending a paper by
GUqCL67cD4U-00289-00063487-00063668 Professor John McLaren of Glasgow
GUqCL67cD4U-00290-00063669-00064013 University points to a future 400
GUqCL67cD4U-00291-00064014-00064244 million pounds gap between what the
GUqCL67cD4U-00292-00064245-00064457 Scottish government plans to spend on
GUqCL67cD4U-00293-00064458-00064791 the NHS each year and what he actually
GUqCL67cD4U-00294-00064791-00065117 needs to spend on the NHS each year
GUqCL67cD4U-00295-00065119-00065436 First Minister are the Auditor General
GUqCL67cD4U-00296-00065437-00065796 and professor John McClaren wrong first
GUqCL67cD4U-00297-00065797-00065973 poster let me go on to John McClaren
GUqCL67cD4U-00298-00065974-00066156 later can I first of all deal with
GUqCL67cD4U-00299-00066157-00066354 Scotland and I'll take each of Richard
GUqCL67cD4U-00300-00066355-00066591 lenez points in turn the other Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-00301-00066592-00066867 report published this morning is rightly
GUqCL67cD4U-00302-00066868-00067104 blunt it said so the challenge is that
GUqCL67cD4U-00303-00067105-00067476 the NHS is facing in that sense of
GUqCL67cD4U-00304-00067477-00067713 course it doesn't tell us what we don't
GUqCL67cD4U-00305-00067714-00067935 already know or are not already working
GUqCL67cD4U-00306-00067936-00068151 to address the challenges a National
GUqCL67cD4U-00307-00068152-00068346 Health Service are facing are the same
GUqCL67cD4U-00308-00068347-00068511 challenges as the National Health
GUqCL67cD4U-00309-00068512-00068715 Service is facing in England Wales and
GUqCL67cD4U-00310-00068716-00068799 Northern Ireland
GUqCL67cD4U-00311-00068800-00068988 and indeed the same challenges that
GUqCL67cD4U-00312-00068989-00069183 health services are facing across much
GUqCL67cD4U-00313-00069184-00069455 of the world the Auditor General herself
GUqCL67cD4U-00314-00069456-00069669 recognizes that those challenges come
GUqCL67cD4U-00315-00069670-00069903 from demands on the service from the
GUqCL67cD4U-00316-00069904-00070149 ageing population at growing of course
GUqCL67cD4U-00317-00070150-00070353 the task for us is not just to describe
GUqCL67cD4U-00318-00070354-00070572 the challenge the task for us is to come
GUqCL67cD4U-00319-00070573-00070776 up with the solutions and that is
GUqCL67cD4U-00320-00070777-00070929 exactly what the Scottish Government is
GUqCL67cD4U-00321-00070930-00071208 doing we have plans in place both for
GUqCL67cD4U-00322-00071209-00071373 the investment the health service needs
GUqCL67cD4U-00323-00071374-00071598 and for the reform that the health
GUqCL67cD4U-00324-00071599-00071805 service needs now in terms of the
GUqCL67cD4U-00325-00071806-00071964 comment about financial sustainability
GUqCL67cD4U-00326-00071965-00072168 as the audit Scotland report itself
GUqCL67cD4U-00327-00072169-00072309 recognizes and this is not a criticism
GUqCL67cD4U-00328-00072310-00072582 of audit Scotland because of course the
GUqCL67cD4U-00329-00072583-00072837 medium term financial perhaps deliver
GUqCL67cD4U-00330-00072838-00073035 members would like to listen to this it
GUqCL67cD4U-00331-00073036-00073260 is important the medium term financial
GUqCL67cD4U-00332-00073261-00073494 plan that the health secretary published
GUqCL67cD4U-00333-00073495-00073698 in this chamber just before the Toba
GUqCL67cD4U-00334-00073699-00074007 recess is not taken account of in the
GUqCL67cD4U-00335-00074008-00074325 audit Scotland report and of course that
GUqCL67cD4U-00336-00074326-00074643 plan sets out a proposal to see the
GUqCL67cD4U-00337-00074644-00074877 health budget increase by three point
GUqCL67cD4U-00338-00074878-00075183 three billion pounds over the period
GUqCL67cD4U-00339-00075184-00075522 until 2023 that would be annual growth
GUqCL67cD4U-00340-00075523-00075753 of 2.9 percent in real terms and as
GUqCL67cD4U-00341-00075754-00075948 ordered Scotland report says the Fraser
GUqCL67cD4U-00342-00075949-00076128 Valentine Institute predicts that the
GUqCL67cD4U-00343-00076129-00076284 health resource budget is likely to have
GUqCL67cD4U-00344-00076285-00076551 to increase by around 2% per year to
GUqCL67cD4U-00345-00076552-00076698 stance those who we are providing
GUqCL67cD4U-00346-00076699-00076863 resources over and above that and I
GUqCL67cD4U-00347-00076864-00077088 think that significantly changes the
GUqCL67cD4U-00348-00077089-00077226 comment about financial sustainability
GUqCL67cD4U-00349-00077227-00077433 and my last point and that of course is
GUqCL67cD4U-00350-00077434-00077667 the Auditor General in the report is
GUqCL67cD4U-00351-00077668-00077799 clear that its current models of
GUqCL67cD4U-00352-00077800-00077952 delivery that are not sustainable that's
GUqCL67cD4U-00353-00077953-00078135 why the reforms we are carrying out are
GUqCL67cD4U-00354-00078136-00078399 so important as well finally in briefly
GUqCL67cD4U-00355-00078400-00078621 let me turn to the John McLaren comments
GUqCL67cD4U-00356-00078622-00078882 from last week and there there are there
GUqCL67cD4U-00357-00078883-00079092 are two criticisms made there the and on
GUqCL67cD4U-00358-00079093-00079248 both of them we would actually dispute
GUqCL67cD4U-00359-00079249-00079434 the basis on which they are made the
GUqCL67cD4U-00360-00079435-00079524 first
GUqCL67cD4U-00361-00079525-00079932 is that our estimate of the demand
GUqCL67cD4U-00362-00079933-00080142 increased demand for health services is
GUqCL67cD4U-00363-00080143-00080478 too low actually our estimate is in line
GUqCL67cD4U-00364-00080479-00080706 with many of the independent estimates
GUqCL67cD4U-00365-00080707-00081027 we estimate total rising demand of 4%
GUqCL67cD4U-00366-00081028-00081309 that's in line with Frazer to Valentine
GUqCL67cD4U-00367-00081310-00081426 fact it's slightly higher than what
GUqCL67cD4U-00368-00081427-00081603 phrase that of Allender have recommended
GUqCL67cD4U-00369-00081604-00081834 also the Institute for Fiscal Studies
GUqCL67cD4U-00370-00081835-00082158 and indeed the King's fund the Nuffield
GUqCL67cD4U-00371-00082159-00082293 trust in the Health Foundation in a
GUqCL67cD4U-00372-00082294-00082482 letter to the prime minister so I would
GUqCL67cD4U-00373-00082483-00082758 take issue with that and secondly John
GUqCL67cD4U-00374-00082759-00082947 McLaren suggests that our estimate for
GUqCL67cD4U-00375-00082948-00083124 savings that the Health Service can make
GUqCL67cD4U-00376-00083125-00083430 are too high but actually they are
GUqCL67cD4U-00377-00083431-00083616 consistent with past performance and
GUqCL67cD4U-00378-00083617-00083756 actually lower than the savings
GUqCL67cD4U-00379-00083757-00084051 requirements been expected in England so
GUqCL67cD4U-00380-00084052-00084333 those are my views on the join McLaren
GUqCL67cD4U-00381-00084334-00084534 report but in so many presiding officer
GUqCL67cD4U-00382-00084535-00084708 our health service does face challenges
GUqCL67cD4U-00383-00084709-00084879 but we are the only administration
GUqCL67cD4U-00384-00084880-00085110 anywhere in the UK that has clear and
GUqCL67cD4U-00385-00085111-00085317 robust plans in place to address and
GUqCL67cD4U-00386-00085318-00085610 overcome these challenges
GUqCL67cD4U-00387-00085611-00086241 Richard Leonard the NHS in Scotland is
GUqCL67cD4U-00388-00086242-00086397 not in a financially sustainable
GUqCL67cD4U-00389-00086398-00086649 position that's in today's audit
GUqCL67cD4U-00390-00086650-00086856 commission report the First Minister can
GUqCL67cD4U-00391-00086857-00087051 talk about her government's budget
GUqCL67cD4U-00392-00087052-00087399 choices but her budget choices forced
GUqCL67cD4U-00393-00087400-00087623 health boards across Scotland to make
GUqCL67cD4U-00394-00087624-00087906 449 million pounds worth of cuts in the
GUqCL67cD4U-00395-00087907-00088299 last financial year alone and the
GUqCL67cD4U-00396-00088300-00088491 government calls these efficiency
GUqCL67cD4U-00397-00088492-00088860 savings but let's be clear these are
GUqCL67cD4U-00398-00088861-00089241 cuts and these cuts have increased year
GUqCL67cD4U-00399-00089242-00089490 on year since Nicola Sturgeon became
GUqCL67cD4U-00400-00089491-00089756 First Minister can the First Minister
GUqCL67cD4U-00401-00089757-00090129 tell the chamber how much local health
GUqCL67cD4U-00402-00090130-00090414 boards have had to cut since she took
GUqCL67cD4U-00403-00090415-00090530 office
GUqCL67cD4U-00404-00090531-00090756 first minister health boards are not
GUqCL67cD4U-00405-00090757-00090951 facing cuts health spending has
GUqCL67cD4U-00406-00090952-00091275 increased year on year and if official
GUqCL67cD4U-00407-00091276-00091503 an had wanted to talk as he write to do
GUqCL67cD4U-00408-00091504-00091674 a bit the audit Scotland report he has
GUqCL67cD4U-00409-00091675-00091869 to recognise that the audit Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-00410-00091870-00092166 report today says over the past 10 years
GUqCL67cD4U-00411-00092167-00092376 the health care budget has increased in
GUqCL67cD4U-00412-00092377-00092675 real terms over an above inflation by
GUqCL67cD4U-00413-00092676-00092875 7.7
GUqCL67cD4U-00414-00092876-00093205 that's what cuts that is rising health
GUqCL67cD4U-00415-00093206-00093469 budgets secondly in terms of the point
GUqCL67cD4U-00416-00093470-00093709 about financial sustainability and all
GUqCL67cD4U-00417-00093710-00094015 the audit audit Scotland have corrected
GUqCL67cD4U-00418-00094016-00094192 that online version of the report at
GUqCL67cD4U-00419-00094193-00094465 this morning but more substantively and
GUqCL67cD4U-00420-00094466-00094642 I think that this is just a statement of
GUqCL67cD4U-00421-00094643-00094926 fact at the report due to the recent
GUqCL67cD4U-00422-00094927-00095080 publication of the medium term financial
GUqCL67cD4U-00423-00095081-00095319 plan and that is not taken account of in
GUqCL67cD4U-00424-00095320-00095569 the plan and that sets out plans to
GUqCL67cD4U-00425-00095570-00095734 increase health spending by three point
GUqCL67cD4U-00426-00095735-00096016 three billion pounds between no and 2023
GUqCL67cD4U-00427-00096017-00096201 which is over and above what the freezer
GUqCL67cD4U-00428-00096202-00096442 of Allender Institute commented on by
GUqCL67cD4U-00429-00096443-00096700 audit Scotland C is needed to deal with
GUqCL67cD4U-00430-00096701-00096904 the inflationary pressure so we have put
GUqCL67cD4U-00431-00096905-00097138 in plan at least the plans to build on
GUqCL67cD4U-00432-00097139-00097303 current record funding in the Health
GUqCL67cD4U-00433-00097304-00097459 Service to make sure that it is
GUqCL67cD4U-00434-00097460-00097669 financially sustainable in the future
GUqCL67cD4U-00435-00097670-00097936 I'm a final point on this presiding
GUqCL67cD4U-00436-00097937-00098251 officer if we had followed at Labour's
GUqCL67cD4U-00437-00098252-00098575 spending plans from the last Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00438-00098576-00098809 election from the last Scottish election
GUqCL67cD4U-00439-00098810-00099069 if we'd fallen for it they said in their
GUqCL67cD4U-00440-00099070-00099424 own manifesto at the NHS today would be
GUqCL67cD4U-00441-00099425-00099676 and labour perhaps should listen to this
GUqCL67cD4U-00442-00099677-00100036 if we followed those plans our NHS today
GUqCL67cD4U-00443-00100037-00100237 would be three hundred and sixty million
GUqCL67cD4U-00444-00100238-00100534 pounds worse off than it is that's the
GUqCL67cD4U-00445-00100535-00100798 equivalent of the NHS losing nine
GUqCL67cD4U-00446-00100799-00101134 thousand Nazis so we've got the plans to
GUqCL67cD4U-00447-00101135-00101296 ensure that our NHS is fit for the
GUqCL67cD4U-00448-00101297-00101473 future and we will go on with delivering
GUqCL67cD4U-00449-00101474-00102008 them Richard Leonard
GUqCL67cD4U-00450-00102009-00102264 well the answer to the question I put to
GUqCL67cD4U-00451-00102265-00102438 the First Minister which she refused to
GUqCL67cD4U-00452-00102439-00102743 give because she either did not know it
GUqCL67cD4U-00453-00102744-00103094 or did not want to admit it is 1.1
GUqCL67cD4U-00454-00103095-00103473 billion pounds that's 1.1 billion pounds
GUqCL67cD4U-00455-00103474-00103718 worth of cuts Health Boards have had to
GUqCL67cD4U-00456-00103719-00103956 make since Nicola Sturgeon became First
GUqCL67cD4U-00457-00103957-00104291 Minister today's audit Scotland report
GUqCL67cD4U-00458-00104292-00104628 exposes the mismanagement of the NHS
GUqCL67cD4U-00459-00104629-00105018 under the SNP too many staff under too
GUqCL67cD4U-00460-00105019-00105321 much pressure too many patients waiting
GUqCL67cD4U-00461-00105322-00105567 far too long too many Health Boards
GUqCL67cD4U-00462-00105568-00105906 having to makes whinging cuts presiding
GUqCL67cD4U-00463-00105907-00106167 officer the SNP has been in office for
GUqCL67cD4U-00464-00106168-00106460 11 years and the Auditor General has
GUqCL67cD4U-00465-00106461-00106782 today concluded that the NHS in Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-00466-00106783-00107100 is not financially sustainable that
GUqCL67cD4U-00467-00107101-00107376 represents nothing less than an abject
GUqCL67cD4U-00468-00107377-00107667 failure of government doesn't it First
GUqCL67cD4U-00469-00107668-00107933 Minister Richard Leonard in his first
GUqCL67cD4U-00470-00107934-00108161 question to me asked me if I thought
GUqCL67cD4U-00471-00108163-00108402 audit Scotland was wrong I don't think
GUqCL67cD4U-00472-00108403-00108567 audit Scotland was wrong I've made the
GUqCL67cD4U-00473-00108568-00108804 point that it doesn't take full account
GUqCL67cD4U-00474-00108805-00109083 of our latest financial plan published
GUqCL67cD4U-00475-00109083-00109257 just before the Tauber recess but I
GUqCL67cD4U-00476-00109258-00109428 think I could equally posit that
GUqCL67cD4U-00477-00109429-00109653 question to Richard Leonard let me read
GUqCL67cD4U-00478-00109654-00109977 from page 10 of the audit Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-00479-00109978-00110210 report there has been a 7 point 7
GUqCL67cD4U-00480-00110211-00110508 percent real terms increase in total
GUqCL67cD4U-00481-00110508-00110808 health spending in the last decade
GUqCL67cD4U-00482-00110808-00111008 so if Richard Leonard is coming here to
GUqCL67cD4U-00483-00111009-00111216 see actually that's not true there's
GUqCL67cD4U-00484-00111217-00111399 been cuts to the health budget is he
GUqCL67cD4U-00485-00111400-00111626 seeing audit Scotland is wrong because
GUqCL67cD4U-00486-00111627-00111933 frankly he must be so he should try and
GUqCL67cD4U-00487-00111933-00112148 have a better consistency in his
GUqCL67cD4U-00488-00112149-00112467 questioning let me set the record of
GUqCL67cD4U-00489-00112468-00112716 this government yes the NHS is under
GUqCL67cD4U-00490-00112717-00112910 pressure rising demand is putting
GUqCL67cD4U-00491-00112911-00113169 pressure on waiting times the vast
GUqCL67cD4U-00492-00113170-00113360 majority of people though are seen
GUqCL67cD4U-00493-00113361-00113601 within the waiting times targets the
GUqCL67cD4U-00494-00113602-00113745 health secretary Seto
GUqCL67cD4U-00495-00113746-00113976 applying at just earlier this week
GUqCL67cD4U-00496-00113977-00114216 showing how you will deliver significant
GUqCL67cD4U-00497-00114217-00114483 improvements to performance in waiting
GUqCL67cD4U-00498-00114483-00114659 times interestingly you know if we look
GUqCL67cD4U-00499-00114660-00114906 at the number of people waiting more
GUqCL67cD4U-00500-00114907-00115128 than 12 weeks for treatment in the last
GUqCL67cD4U-00501-00115129-00115233 few year we've got figure
GUqCL67cD4U-00502-00115234-00115479 which is too high I hasten to add of
GUqCL67cD4U-00503-00115480-00115744 just over 80,000 if we go back to the
GUqCL67cD4U-00504-00115745-00115948 last year before we commence a poem and
GUqCL67cD4U-00505-00115949-00116151 labor we're in office there were a
GUqCL67cD4U-00506-00116152-00116308 hundred and four thousand eight hundred
GUqCL67cD4U-00507-00116308-00116562 and sixty-seven waiting more than 12
GUqCL67cD4U-00508-00116563-00116893 weeks for treatment so we have the plans
GUqCL67cD4U-00509-00116894-00117097 in place to protect our health service
GUqCL67cD4U-00510-00117098-00117346 record numbers of staff record funding
GUqCL67cD4U-00511-00117347-00117663 even more funding planned because we
GUqCL67cD4U-00512-00117664-00117883 have the solutions while Richard Leonard
GUqCL67cD4U-00513-00117883-00118583 only wants to talk about the problem
GUqCL67cD4U-00514-00118584-00118836 quite a lot of interest in asking
GUqCL67cD4U-00515-00118837-00119010 supplementary at this stage the first
GUqCL67cD4U-00516-00119011-00119235 from Julian Martin Thank You presiding
GUqCL67cD4U-00517-00119236-00119293 officer
GUqCL67cD4U-00518-00119294-00119518 the First Minister's already aware of
GUqCL67cD4U-00519-00119519-00119784 the horrific situation my constituents
GUqCL67cD4U-00520-00119785-00119904 David and Karen :
GUqCL67cD4U-00521-00119905-00120126 Connolly find themselves and with mrs.
GUqCL67cD4U-00522-00120127-00120300 corney's application to become a British
GUqCL67cD4U-00523-00120301-00120510 citizen rejected by the Home Office
GUqCL67cD4U-00524-00120511-00120823 despite her husband of 32 years being a
GUqCL67cD4U-00525-00120824-00120907 British citizen
GUqCL67cD4U-00526-00120908-00121147 the couple moved from Zimbabwe Botswana
GUqCL67cD4U-00527-00121148-00121365 to be with their son Marcus also a
GUqCL67cD4U-00528-00121366-00121584 British citizen living for ten years in
GUqCL67cD4U-00529-00121585-00121809 an veloute and mrs. Connelly is also the
GUqCL67cD4U-00530-00121810-00122010 carer of her engineer husband who's
GUqCL67cD4U-00531-00122011-00122272 quadriplegic and requires 20 for their
GUqCL67cD4U-00532-00122273-00122524 care I have written in support of their
GUqCL67cD4U-00533-00122525-00122679 case the head of their Appeal Tribunal
GUqCL67cD4U-00534-00122680-00122968 and to the First Minister can I ask the
GUqCL67cD4U-00535-00122969-00123244 First Minister what more can we do to
GUqCL67cD4U-00536-00123245-00123424 support the family amid a case where
GUqCL67cD4U-00537-00123425-00123690 mrs. Connolly been allowed to remain in
GUqCL67cD4U-00538-00123691-00124353 Scotland was our family
GUqCL67cD4U-00539-00124354-00124579 well can I thank Julie Martin for
GUqCL67cD4U-00540-00124580-00124816 raising this case I've read the details
GUqCL67cD4U-00541-00124817-00125020 about mr. Macy's Connolly's case in the
GUqCL67cD4U-00542-00125021-00125184 Daily Record this morning and I want to
GUqCL67cD4U-00543-00125185-00125484 commend Julie Martin for taking up this
GUqCL67cD4U-00544-00125485-00125791 case and arguing it so strongly my heart
GUqCL67cD4U-00545-00125792-00125985 goes out to mr. and mrs. Connolly and I
GUqCL67cD4U-00546-00125986-00126135 hope they get the opportunity to stay
GUqCL67cD4U-00547-00126136-00126510 here as a family in Scotland I have
GUqCL67cD4U-00548-00126511-00126730 complete sympathy for anybody attempting
GUqCL67cD4U-00549-00126731-00126991 to navigate the increasingly complex and
GUqCL67cD4U-00550-00126992-00127252 restrictive UK immigration system the
GUqCL67cD4U-00551-00127253-00127471 one-size-fits-all approach imposed by
GUqCL67cD4U-00552-00127472-00127726 Westminster is arbitrary and it is very
GUqCL67cD4U-00553-00127727-00127983 often inhuman particularly in cases
GUqCL67cD4U-00554-00127984-00128251 which threaten to rip families apart you
GUqCL67cD4U-00555-00128252-00128407 know literally every day just now we
GUqCL67cD4U-00556-00128408-00128590 hear more and more stories of lives
GUqCL67cD4U-00557-00128591-00128808 being disrupted across the country by
GUqCL67cD4U-00558-00128809-00129091 these disastrous policies we want to
GUqCL67cD4U-00559-00129092-00129285 welcome people to come and live here and
GUqCL67cD4U-00560-00129286-00129514 to contribute to our communities and not
GUqCL67cD4U-00561-00129515-00129706 to threaten to force them to leave once
GUqCL67cD4U-00562-00129707-00129991 they settle so if there is more that the
GUqCL67cD4U-00563-00129992-00130114 Scottish government can do to help
GUqCL67cD4U-00564-00130115-00130311 Jeremy Martin argue this case I'm more
GUqCL67cD4U-00565-00130313-00130543 than happy to look at that and see that
GUqCL67cD4U-00566-00130544-00130738 we do it but I want to take the
GUqCL67cD4U-00567-00130739-00130978 opportunity to wish mr. mrs. Connolly
GUqCL67cD4U-00568-00130979-00131218 well and give them the message that the
GUqCL67cD4U-00569-00131219-00131371 vast majority of people in Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-00570-00131372-00131611 welcome them here and want them to stay
GUqCL67cD4U-00571-00131612-00132027 in our country
GUqCL67cD4U-00572-00132028-00132606 Peter Chapman Minister how many patients
GUqCL67cD4U-00573-00132607-00132895 energist grumpy and discharged before
GUqCL67cD4U-00574-00132896-00133158 unnecessary care plan is put in place
GUqCL67cD4U-00575-00133159-00133357 First Minister I'm happy to have the
GUqCL67cD4U-00576-00133358-00133495 health secretary write to the member
GUqCL67cD4U-00577-00133496-00133681 with the the detail he's looking for I
GUqCL67cD4U-00578-00133682-00133885 don't have that detail to hand nobody
GUqCL67cD4U-00579-00133886-00134152 should be discharged before it is safe
GUqCL67cD4U-00580-00134153-00134332 for them to be discharged and where the
GUqCL67cD4U-00581-00134333-00134578 necessary care plans are in place I know
GUqCL67cD4U-00582-00134579-00134749 that all health boards and increasingly
GUqCL67cD4U-00583-00134750-00134980 of course integrated joint boards work
GUqCL67cD4U-00584-00134981-00135283 very hard to make sure that that is the
GUqCL67cD4U-00585-00135284-00135475 case and as we've seen over the last few
GUqCL67cD4U-00586-00135476-00135682 years overall the number of delayed
GUqCL67cD4U-00587-00135683-00135982 discharges are coming down and we have
GUqCL67cD4U-00588-00135983-00136132 health services and social care services
GUqCL67cD4U-00589-00136133-00136378 working more closely together to make
GUqCL67cD4U-00590-00136379-00136525 sure people have the clear plans they
GUqCL67cD4U-00591-00136526-00136708 need but in terms of specific detail
GUqCL67cD4U-00592-00136709-00136837 I'll make sure that's provided to the
GUqCL67cD4U-00593-00136838-00137050 member Daniel Johnson
GUqCL67cD4U-00594-00137051-00137251 Thank You presiding officer in recent
GUqCL67cD4U-00595-00137252-00137569 days the use of recreational firearms
GUqCL67cD4U-00596-00137570-00137684 has been in the press from
GUqCL67cD4U-00597-00137685-00137957 shooting of goats through to my
GUqCL67cD4U-00598-00137958-00138116 constituency weather is concerned about
GUqCL67cD4U-00599-00138117-00138323 the opening of a gunshot I mean a matter
GUqCL67cD4U-00600-00138324-00138530 of yards from South Morningside primary
GUqCL67cD4U-00601-00138531-00138692 school having been in touch with the
GUqCL67cD4U-00602-00138693-00138857 police they can take no action because
GUqCL67cD4U-00603-00138858-00139061 their locus is over who can be a
GUqCL67cD4U-00604-00139062-00139247 firearms dealer not where those
GUqCL67cD4U-00605-00139248-00139508 businesses locate the council has no
GUqCL67cD4U-00606-00139509-00139670 locus because it's the police that
GUqCL67cD4U-00607-00139671-00139847 regulate firearms and indeed on that
GUqCL67cD4U-00608-00139848-00140078 basis they would have more interest if
GUqCL67cD4U-00609-00140079-00140261 someone was seeking to open a fast-food
GUqCL67cD4U-00610-00140262-00140309 joint
GUqCL67cD4U-00611-00140310-00140516 rather than a gun shop so can I ask the
GUqCL67cD4U-00612-00140517-00140726 First Minister this does she believe
GUqCL67cD4U-00613-00140727-00141022 that a gun shop is just another shop
GUqCL67cD4U-00614-00141023-00141275 does she believe as I do that this
GUqCL67cD4U-00615-00141276-00141455 apparent loop pole should be closed
GUqCL67cD4U-00616-00141456-00141671 whereby we where we I think we should
GUqCL67cD4U-00617-00141672-00141875 have regulation of not just who can
GUqCL67cD4U-00618-00141876-00142067 operate this these businesses but where
GUqCL67cD4U-00619-00142068-00142298 they operate and finally does she
GUqCL67cD4U-00620-00142299-00142478 believe that it is right to have a gun
GUqCL67cD4U-00621-00142479-00142694 shop next to primary school because I
GUqCL67cD4U-00622-00142695-00142828 know I don't
GUqCL67cD4U-00623-00142829-00143231 First Minister I don't know the
GUqCL67cD4U-00624-00143232-00143444 particular details of the the shop that
GUqCL67cD4U-00625-00143445-00143681 he is raising today but in general terms
GUqCL67cD4U-00626-00143682-00143816 I would agree with some that that is not
GUqCL67cD4U-00627-00143817-00143894 something that I would feel
GUqCL67cD4U-00628-00143895-00144116 instinctively comfortable with so I can
GUqCL67cD4U-00629-00144117-00144380 understand his concerns I also agree
GUqCL67cD4U-00630-00144381-00144566 with them that we shouldn't seed gun
GUqCL67cD4U-00631-00144567-00144746 shops as just the same as all other
GUqCL67cD4U-00632-00144747-00145037 shops for very obvious reasons and as
GUqCL67cD4U-00633-00145038-00145193 the member is aware most firearms
GUqCL67cD4U-00634-00145194-00145412 legislation with the exception of ear
GUqCL67cD4U-00635-00145413-00145592 weapons is reserved to Westminster
GUqCL67cD4U-00636-00145593-00145826 although we are the only part of Great
GUqCL67cD4U-00637-00145827-00146027 Britain to licence ear weapons and
GUqCL67cD4U-00638-00146028-00146285 Firearms licenses are issued by police
GUqCL67cD4U-00639-00146286-00146525 Scotland I am more than happy to look
GUqCL67cD4U-00640-00146526-00146747 into the particular case the Daniel
GUqCL67cD4U-00641-00146748-00146951 Johnson is raising and to come back to
GUqCL67cD4U-00642-00146952-00147125 him if I think there is more action that
GUqCL67cD4U-00643-00147126-00147329 the Scottish government or any of our
GUqCL67cD4U-00644-00147330-00147485 agencies should be taken but I would
GUqCL67cD4U-00645-00147486-00147635 also encourage him to raise his concerns
GUqCL67cD4U-00646-00147636-00147839 if he hasn't already done so with police
GUqCL67cD4U-00647-00147840-00148106 Scotland and and I am more than happy to
GUqCL67cD4U-00648-00148107-00148235 come back to him because I absolutely
GUqCL67cD4U-00649-00148236-00148514 understand the reasons for what he has
GUqCL67cD4U-00650-00148515-00148721 described today causing deep disquiet
GUqCL67cD4U-00651-00148722-00149063 and I'm sure many people will too Arthur
GUqCL67cD4U-00652-00149064-00149447 Allen the First Minister will be aware
GUqCL67cD4U-00653-00149448-00149687 of the eastern areas recently canceled
GUqCL67cD4U-00654-00149688-00149891 their story to Aberdeen service with
GUqCL67cD4U-00655-00149892-00150158 effect from tomorrow what more can the
GUqCL67cD4U-00656-00150159-00150329 Scottish government and its agencies do
GUqCL67cD4U-00657-00150330-00150566 to ensure the economic viability of air
GUqCL67cD4U-00658-00150567-00150832 services to and from the Western Isles
GUqCL67cD4U-00659-00150833-00151010 particularly for those
GUqCL67cD4U-00660-00151011-00151216 my constituents who work in the oil and
GUqCL67cD4U-00661-00151217-00151553 gas sectors first well I can understand
GUqCL67cD4U-00662-00151554-00151748 Alistair Allen's concerns about this we
GUqCL67cD4U-00663-00151749-00151949 have to make sure that the connectivity
GUqCL67cD4U-00664-00151950-00152159 between our islands all of our islands
GUqCL67cD4U-00665-00152160-00152387 including our Islands constituency in
GUqCL67cD4U-00666-00152388-00152624 the mainland are encouraging economic
GUqCL67cD4U-00667-00152625-00152846 sustainability and sustainability in a
GUqCL67cD4U-00668-00152847-00153074 range of other ways as well I'm happy to
GUqCL67cD4U-00669-00153075-00153328 ask the transport secretary to engage
GUqCL67cD4U-00670-00153329-00153551 with him to engage with the airline and
GUqCL67cD4U-00671-00153552-00153679 to look to see whether there's more at
GUqCL67cD4U-00672-00153680-00153788 the Scottish Government can and should
GUqCL67cD4U-00673-00153789-00153953 be doing it to address this particular
GUqCL67cD4U-00674-00153954-00154271 concern question umber three Patrick
GUqCL67cD4U-00675-00154272-00154336 Harvie
GUqCL67cD4U-00676-00154337-00154654 Thank You presiding officer in Glasgow
GUqCL67cD4U-00677-00154655-00154871 on Saturday thousands of teachers will
GUqCL67cD4U-00678-00154872-00155102 be taking to the streets to make clear
GUqCL67cD4U-00679-00155103-00155362 their demand for a Fair Pay settlement
GUqCL67cD4U-00680-00155363-00155621 they've already told the government that
GUqCL67cD4U-00681-00155622-00155819 they will not have their members divided
GUqCL67cD4U-00682-00155820-00156023 against one another with some governor
GUqCL67cD4U-00683-00156024-00156332 decent rise and others left behind the
GUqCL67cD4U-00684-00156333-00156503 loss of three and a half thousand
GUqCL67cD4U-00685-00156504-00156829 teachers since 2007 and the reliance on
GUqCL67cD4U-00686-00156830-00157028 temporary contracts for so many newly
GUqCL67cD4U-00687-00157029-00157256 recruited teachers is having a direct
GUqCL67cD4U-00688-00157257-00157516 impact on the quality of education it
GUqCL67cD4U-00689-00157517-00157709 means more stress in classrooms and
GUqCL67cD4U-00690-00157710-00157966 staff rooms more teachers who don't have
GUqCL67cD4U-00691-00157967-00158171 the parents that lets them build a
GUqCL67cD4U-00692-00158172-00158374 strong relationship with their pupils
GUqCL67cD4U-00693-00158375-00158663 music lessons act children going out
GUqCL67cD4U-00694-00158664-00158801 without additional needs being
GUqCL67cD4U-00695-00158802-00159115 identified or met well the First
GUqCL67cD4U-00696-00159116-00159323 Minister promised the teachers who will
GUqCL67cD4U-00697-00159324-00159506 be marching on Saturday that the
GUqCL67cD4U-00698-00159507-00159662 government will give them the fair pay
GUqCL67cD4U-00699-00159663-00159902 rise that's due so that we can attract
GUqCL67cD4U-00700-00159903-00160139 and retain the teachers our children
GUqCL67cD4U-00701-00160140-00160415 need first listen first of all we are
GUqCL67cD4U-00702-00160416-00160733 committed to fear high rises for all of
GUqCL67cD4U-00703-00160734-00160886 our public sector workers where we have
GUqCL67cD4U-00704-00160887-00161116 already agreed deals I think we have
GUqCL67cD4U-00705-00161117-00161360 demonstrated that both for agenda for
GUqCL67cD4U-00706-00161361-00161534 change workers in our national health
GUqCL67cD4U-00707-00161535-00161822 service where we've awarded the best ear
GUqCL67cD4U-00708-00161823-00162091 eyes of any of any country in the UK as
GUqCL67cD4U-00709-00162092-00162365 far as I'm aware and also for our police
GUqCL67cD4U-00710-00162366-00162541 officers where the pay rise for our
GUqCL67cD4U-00711-00162542-00162715 police officers goes beyond that being
GUqCL67cD4U-00712-00162716-00162956 offered south of the border in terms of
GUqCL67cD4U-00713-00162957-00163289 teachers yes the teaching unions have
GUqCL67cD4U-00714-00163290-00163520 formally rejected the latest offer from
GUqCL67cD4U-00715-00163521-00163736 Khosla but we're all committed to
GUqCL67cD4U-00716-00163737-00164012 continuing discussions the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00717-00164013-00164135 government of course is actively
GUqCL67cD4U-00718-00164136-00164389 involved in these negotiations and
GUqCL67cD4U-00719-00164390-00164629 we dodge everyone around the table to
GUqCL67cD4U-00720-00164630-00164890 take a constructive approach we had
GUqCL67cD4U-00721-00164891-00165046 worked with corslet to put in place a
GUqCL67cD4U-00722-00165047-00165364 fear of pay offer for 2018-19 which
GUqCL67cD4U-00723-00165365-00165505 we'll see would see the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00724-00165506-00165670 government contributing an additional
GUqCL67cD4U-00725-00165671-00165886 thirty five million pounds of funding
GUqCL67cD4U-00726-00165887-00166099 for teachers pay and that would result
GUqCL67cD4U-00727-00166100-00166315 in all teachers on the main grid scale
GUqCL67cD4U-00728-00166316-00166498 receiving at least a five percent
GUqCL67cD4U-00729-00166499-00166702 increase with some teachers receiving up
GUqCL67cD4U-00730-00166703-00166960 to eleven percent in one year so I do
GUqCL67cD4U-00731-00166961-00167146 believe that is a generous and fair
GUqCL67cD4U-00732-00167147-00167347 offer and hope that it will be
GUqCL67cD4U-00733-00167348-00167500 considered in such a way but we are
GUqCL67cD4U-00734-00167501-00167710 committed to continuing at negotiations
GUqCL67cD4U-00735-00167711-00167950 in good faith lastly in terms of the the
GUqCL67cD4U-00736-00167951-00168100 point about poverty I absolutely
GUqCL67cD4U-00737-00168101-00168325 understand and sympathize with that
GUqCL67cD4U-00738-00168326-00168535 point and we value the whole education
GUqCL67cD4U-00739-00168536-00168820 workforce and recognize the aspiration
GUqCL67cD4U-00740-00168821-00168968 for parity between teachers and non
GUqCL67cD4U-00741-00168969-00169156 teachers I simply point out that these
GUqCL67cD4U-00742-00169157-00169369 involve two different negotiating
GUqCL67cD4U-00743-00169370-00169537 arrangements the Scottish Government is
GUqCL67cD4U-00744-00169538-00169768 party to the teachers pay negotiating
GUqCL67cD4U-00745-00169769-00169981 mechanisms we does pay for known
GUqCL67cD4U-00746-00169982-00170164 teachers as negotiated between Khosla
GUqCL67cD4U-00747-00170165-00170374 and the trade unions and we are not part
GUqCL67cD4U-00748-00170375-00170524 of that process so these are two
GUqCL67cD4U-00749-00170525-00170704 different mechanisms but of course that
GUqCL67cD4U-00750-00170705-00170902 doesn't take away from the fact that we
GUqCL67cD4U-00751-00170903-00171034 have sympathy with the overall point
GUqCL67cD4U-00752-00171035-00171253 made we want to have pay and other
GUqCL67cD4U-00753-00171254-00171412 arrangements in place that attracts
GUqCL67cD4U-00754-00171413-00171601 people into teaching and give them a
GUqCL67cD4U-00755-00171602-00171789 rewarding career when they're in it
GUqCL67cD4U-00756-00171790-00171922 Patrick Harvie
GUqCL67cD4U-00757-00171923-00172174 well parity even within the teaching
GUqCL67cD4U-00758-00172175-00172381 workforce doesn't yet seem to be
GUqCL67cD4U-00759-00172382-00172606 acknowledged and the teachers will be
GUqCL67cD4U-00760-00172607-00172810 marching on Saturday are saying that all
GUqCL67cD4U-00761-00172811-00173059 teachers deserve that ten percent rise
GUqCL67cD4U-00762-00173060-00173272 it's necessary in order to make up for
GUqCL67cD4U-00763-00173273-00173521 the years of below inflation of real
GUqCL67cD4U-00764-00173522-00173800 terms pay cuts and the consequence of
GUqCL67cD4U-00765-00173801-00174055 getting this wrong would just be unhappy
GUqCL67cD4U-00766-00174056-00174289 teachers perhaps even forced to the
GUqCL67cD4U-00767-00174290-00174523 point of industrial action holding back
GUqCL67cD4U-00768-00174524-00174823 teachers pay and squeezing the budgets
GUqCL67cD4U-00769-00174824-00175072 of our local councils will prevent the
GUqCL67cD4U-00770-00175073-00175237 educational improvements that I do
GUqCL67cD4U-00771-00175238-00175447 believe the First Minister wants to see
GUqCL67cD4U-00772-00175448-00175660 and it's not only our teachers and
GUqCL67cD4U-00773-00175661-00175861 schools the council's which fund them
GUqCL67cD4U-00774-00175862-00176068 need the resources to do the job
GUqCL67cD4U-00775-00176069-00176311 properly and to do everything else we
GUqCL67cD4U-00776-00176312-00176536 expected them from social care to
GUqCL67cD4U-00777-00176537-00176761 environmental services if we want the
GUqCL67cD4U-00778-00176762-00176953 excellent public services this country
GUqCL67cD4U-00779-00176954-00177172 deserves we need to make the resources
GUqCL67cD4U-00780-00177173-00177379 available when will this government
GUqCL67cD4U-00781-00177380-00177636 finally give councils both the funding
GUqCL67cD4U-00782-00177637-00177941 and the powers they need and deserve
GUqCL67cD4U-00783-00177942-00178173 personally of course in our last budget
GUqCL67cD4U-00784-00178174-00178443 we agreed with the Green Party ideal for
GUqCL67cD4U-00785-00178444-00178728 councils that delivered real terms
GUqCL67cD4U-00786-00178729-00179019 increases in the budget that they have
GUqCL67cD4U-00787-00179020-00179238 to spend of course we were also the
GUqCL67cD4U-00788-00179239-00179481 first government anywhere in the UK to
GUqCL67cD4U-00789-00179482-00179652 lift the one percent public sector
GUqCL67cD4U-00790-00179653-00179859 pickup in terms of that point about
GUqCL67cD4U-00791-00179860-00180009 parity within the teaching profession
GUqCL67cD4U-00792-00180010-00180111 and I'm not going to comment
GUqCL67cD4U-00793-00180112-00180423 specifically on teachers on this because
GUqCL67cD4U-00794-00180424-00180573 the negotiations are ongoing but
GUqCL67cD4U-00795-00180574-00180779 generally within our public sector pay
GUqCL67cD4U-00796-00180780-00180981 policy and I think this has been backed
GUqCL67cD4U-00797-00180982-00181152 by the greens and others we've
GUqCL67cD4U-00798-00181153-00181482 recognised the need to give bigger P and
GUqCL67cD4U-00799-00181483-00181671 CLE C's to those at the lower end of the
GUqCL67cD4U-00800-00181672-00181833 scale than those at the higher end of
GUqCL67cD4U-00801-00181834-00182031 the scale and I actually believe in that
GUqCL67cD4U-00802-00182032-00182301 progressive principle and it's one that
GUqCL67cD4U-00803-00182302-00182568 I I thought Patrick Harvey agreed with
GUqCL67cD4U-00804-00182569-00182877 as well now in terms of pay deals we
GUqCL67cD4U-00805-00182878-00183141 have we absolutely recognize the public
GUqCL67cD4U-00806-00183142-00183315 sector workers have taken a lot of pain
GUqCL67cD4U-00807-00183316-00183516 through Paris trained in recent years
GUqCL67cD4U-00808-00183517-00183687 and we are committed and I've made this
GUqCL67cD4U-00809-00183688-00183870 very clear as has the finance secretary
GUqCL67cD4U-00810-00183871-00184227 to redressing that as quickly as we can
GUqCL67cD4U-00811-00184228-00184374 and we've got to do that in a way that
GUqCL67cD4U-00812-00184375-00184539 is fair but it stands to reason we've
GUqCL67cD4U-00813-00184540-00184686 also got to do that in a way that is
GUqCL67cD4U-00814-00184687-00184803 affordable and I think we've
GUqCL67cD4U-00815-00184804-00184974 demonstrated our commitment to this the
GUqCL67cD4U-00816-00184975-00185163 named percent over three years that has
GUqCL67cD4U-00817-00185164-00185337 been agreed for narcy's another agenda
GUqCL67cD4U-00818-00185338-00185577 for change workers the six and half
GUqCL67cD4U-00819-00185578-00185721 percent over the 30 months for our
GUqCL67cD4U-00820-00185722-00185985 police officers that strikes a balance
GUqCL67cD4U-00821-00185986-00186207 between fairness and recognizing that we
GUqCL67cD4U-00822-00186208-00186402 have ground to make up for public sector
GUqCL67cD4U-00823-00186403-00186615 workers but also recognizing that we
GUqCL67cD4U-00824-00186616-00186804 have to have deals that are affordable I
GUqCL67cD4U-00825-00186805-00187086 hope we can reach the same fear outcome
GUqCL67cD4U-00826-00187087-00187254 for teachers because we all want to see
GUqCL67cD4U-00827-00187255-00187437 teachers properly rewarded for the
GUqCL67cD4U-00828-00187438-00187668 excellent job that they do for their
GUqCL67cD4U-00829-00187669-00187829 sake but also so we can continue to
GUqCL67cD4U-00830-00187830-00187986 attract new people into the profession
GUqCL67cD4U-00831-00187987-00188237 in the years to come
GUqCL67cD4U-00832-00188238-00188507 question number four Willie Rennie I
GUqCL67cD4U-00833-00188508-00188799 take the First Minister back to the NHS
GUqCL67cD4U-00834-00188800-00189045 she talked earlier about had planned to
GUqCL67cD4U-00835-00189046-00189288 meet waiting times targets that she has
GUqCL67cD4U-00836-00189289-00189606 failed to meet so far on page four of
GUqCL67cD4U-00837-00189607-00189831 that plan it says that performance will
GUqCL67cD4U-00838-00189832-00190125 continue to decline the next quarter's
GUqCL67cD4U-00839-00190126-00190359 figures will be worse than the last
GUqCL67cD4U-00840-00190360-00190647 quarter and those were worse than the
GUqCL67cD4U-00841-00190648-00190881 ones before that and the ones before
GUqCL67cD4U-00842-00190882-00190971 that too
GUqCL67cD4U-00843-00190972-00191409 why it is is that in year 12 of an SMP
GUqCL67cD4U-00844-00191410-00191699 government that we still have to expect
GUqCL67cD4U-00845-00191700-00192041 waiting times to get what before there
GUqCL67cD4U-00846-00192042-00192304 is anything of them getting better
GUqCL67cD4U-00847-00192305-00192554 First Minister well I think the answer
GUqCL67cD4U-00848-00192555-00192798 to that is pretty well known to Willie
GUqCL67cD4U-00849-00192799-00193023 Rainey and to others firstly let me
GUqCL67cD4U-00850-00193024-00193166 repeat what I said to Richard Leonard
GUqCL67cD4U-00851-00193167-00193461 the vast majority of patients are seen
GUqCL67cD4U-00852-00193462-00193674 within our waiting times targets and of
GUqCL67cD4U-00853-00193675-00193824 course one of the observations made in
GUqCL67cD4U-00854-00193825-00194010 the audit Scotland report today is that
GUqCL67cD4U-00855-00194011-00194336 90% of patients rate their care as good
GUqCL67cD4U-00856-00194337-00194516 or excellent I think that's a tribute to
GUqCL67cD4U-00857-00194517-00194687 the NHS and all of the staff across the
GUqCL67cD4U-00858-00194688-00194963 country who what can it but demand on
GUqCL67cD4U-00859-00194964-00195207 our NHS is rising that is largely
GUqCL67cD4U-00860-00195208-00195452 because of the ageing profile of our
GUqCL67cD4U-00861-00195453-00195660 population and that is putting enormous
GUqCL67cD4U-00862-00195661-00195911 pressure on waiting time so what the
GUqCL67cD4U-00863-00195912-00196107 health secretary did this week was be
GUqCL67cD4U-00864-00196108-00196323 utterly transparent about those
GUqCL67cD4U-00865-00196324-00196529 challenges the impact they are having
GUqCL67cD4U-00866-00196530-00196787 right now and what the funding plans are
GUqCL67cD4U-00867-00196788-00197066 that we have in place to address those
GUqCL67cD4U-00868-00197067-00197259 challenges and to substantially and
GUqCL67cD4U-00869-00197260-00197450 sustainably reduced waiting times I
GUqCL67cD4U-00870-00197451-00197682 think that's the right way to go and
GUqCL67cD4U-00871-00197683-00197871 actually a law it gives a Willie Rainey
GUqCL67cD4U-00872-00197872-00198026 the opportunity to come and ask these
GUqCL67cD4U-00873-00198027-00198236 questions today I think it is important
GUqCL67cD4U-00874-00198237-00198440 and right for us to be fully frank
GUqCL67cD4U-00875-00198441-00198633 honest and transparent with Parliament
GUqCL67cD4U-00876-00198634-00198834 about the nature and scale of the
GUqCL67cD4U-00877-00198835-00199032 challenge that we are facing so that
GUqCL67cD4U-00878-00199033-00199175 Parliament can then hold us to account
GUqCL67cD4U-00879-00199176-00199410 as we work through this plan in the
GUqCL67cD4U-00880-00199411-00199608 years ahead so I will continue working
GUqCL67cD4U-00881-00199609-00199778 with the health secretary to make sure
GUqCL67cD4U-00882-00199779-00199961 that we have the funding in place to
GUqCL67cD4U-00883-00199962-00200070 make sure we're putting the staff
GUqCL67cD4U-00884-00200071-00200235 resources in place and to make sure we
GUqCL67cD4U-00885-00200236-00200477 have the reform plans in place to ensure
GUqCL67cD4U-00886-00200478-00200658 that our NHS is fit for the future
GUqCL67cD4U-00887-00200659-00200951 that's my responsibility and it's one
GUqCL67cD4U-00888-00200952-00201065 that I will continue to live up to
GUqCL67cD4U-00889-00201066-00201458 Willie Rennie but their law states that
GUqCL67cD4U-00890-00201459-00201756 patients will be guaranteed NHS
GUqCL67cD4U-00891-00201757-00202061 treatment within 12 weeks this is the
GUqCL67cD4U-00892-00202062-00202316 first ministers law from when she was
GUqCL67cD4U-00893-00202317-00202635 health secretary it was an SMP flagship
GUqCL67cD4U-00894-00202636-00203007 law that helped them take power in 2007
GUqCL67cD4U-00895-00203008-00203244 and it's a law that the SMP government
GUqCL67cD4U-00896-00203245-00203610 has broken over a hundred thousand times
GUqCL67cD4U-00897-00203611-00203922 but on Tuesday the government said they
GUqCL67cD4U-00898-00203923-00204144 keep on breaking the law for another
GUqCL67cD4U-00899-00204145-00204318 three years
GUqCL67cD4U-00900-00204319-00204486 if a member of the public was to break
GUqCL67cD4U-00901-00204487-00204726 the law this many times they'd serve
GUqCL67cD4U-00902-00204727-00205032 time in Berlin II why is it that when
GUqCL67cD4U-00903-00205033-00205257 the SNP government breaks the law they
GUqCL67cD4U-00904-00205258-00205473 think they can get away scot-free
GUqCL67cD4U-00905-00205473-00205689 so can the First Minister tell the
GUqCL67cD4U-00906-00205690-00205962 people of Scotland what exactly are the
GUqCL67cD4U-00907-00205963-00206196 penalties for breaking this law that she
GUqCL67cD4U-00908-00206196-00206514 has floated so many tails First Minister
GUqCL67cD4U-00909-00206515-00206669 he always kind of manages to let himself
GUqCL67cD4U-00910-00206671-00206964 down on on these issues but can I could
GUqCL67cD4U-00911-00206965-00207213 return to the seediest point because the
GUqCL67cD4U-00912-00207214-00207492 well I'm trying to answer the 12-week
GUqCL67cD4U-00913-00207492-00207846 treatment guarantee yes it has not been
GUqCL67cD4U-00914-00207846-00208032 adhere to more than a hundred thousand
GUqCL67cD4U-00915-00208033-00208488 times but 1.6 million patients have been
GUqCL67cD4U-00916-00208489-00208728 treated within that patients that might
GUqCL67cD4U-00917-00208729-00209100 have waited over 12 weeks without that
GUqCL67cD4U-00918-00209101-00209294 guaranteeing as I just said that I know
GUqCL67cD4U-00919-00209296-00209532 fewer people waiting more than 12 weeks
GUqCL67cD4U-00920-00209533-00209679 for treatment than was the more of the
GUqCL67cD4U-00921-00209680-00209894 case when this government came to office
GUqCL67cD4U-00922-00209896-00210165 the sanctions and the steps that are
GUqCL67cD4U-00923-00210166-00210344 taken when Health Boards don't meet at
GUqCL67cD4U-00924-00210346-00210489 the treatment time guarantee had
GUqCL67cD4U-00925-00210490-00210687 actually laid down in the law so he
GUqCL67cD4U-00926-00210688-00210923 really can go like anybody else and look
GUqCL67cD4U-00927-00210925-00211167 at what they are the health secretary
GUqCL67cD4U-00928-00211167-00211371 engages with health boards health boards
GUqCL67cD4U-00929-00211371-00211656 have obligations to advise and inform
GUqCL67cD4U-00930-00211657-00211908 patients of what they will do to deliver
GUqCL67cD4U-00931-00211909-00212130 the treatment as quickly as possible and
GUqCL67cD4U-00932-00212131-00212388 health boards are are monitored on that
GUqCL67cD4U-00933-00212389-00212616 by the health secretary so I do not I
GUqCL67cD4U-00934-00212617-00212859 stand here today and do not shy away
GUqCL67cD4U-00935-00212860-00213023 from the challenges that our health
GUqCL67cD4U-00936-00213025-00213156 service in common with health services
GUqCL67cD4U-00937-00213157-00213405 across the UK and further afield are
GUqCL67cD4U-00938-00213406-00213633 facing but we are putting in place the
GUqCL67cD4U-00939-00213634-00213789 plans we have put in place the plans
GUqCL67cD4U-00940-00213790-00214044 both around investment and around reform
GUqCL67cD4U-00941-00214044-00214269 and to make sure that we meet lowest
GUqCL67cD4U-00942-00214269-00214458 targets and to make sure that the
GUqCL67cD4U-00943-00214459-00214694 quality of care is as patients expect in
GUqCL67cD4U-00944-00214696-00214854 the final point presiding officer again
GUqCL67cD4U-00945-00214855-00215040 going back to the audit Scotland report
GUqCL67cD4U-00946-00215041-00215301 the audits gotten to a point repeated by
GUqCL67cD4U-00947-00215302-00215532 the Auditor General on read radio this
GUqCL67cD4U-00948-00215533-00215733 morning is very clear about the high
GUqCL67cD4U-00949-00215734-00215961 quality of care delivered by staff in
GUqCL67cD4U-00950-00215962-00216092 our NHS and that is something we should
GUqCL67cD4U-00951-00216094-00216429 thank them for I saw a lot of interest
GUqCL67cD4U-00952-00216430-00216564 in asking supplementary swill take a
GUqCL67cD4U-00953-00216565-00216834 number of thrust from Mark Russell thank
GUqCL67cD4U-00954-00216835-00217011 you the science is clear
GUqCL67cD4U-00955-00217012-00217236 we've just 12 years three Parmenter e
GUqCL67cD4U-00956-00217237-00217419 sessions left to avoid dangerous climate
GUqCL67cD4U-00957-00217419-00217662 breakdown this week our Environment
GUqCL67cD4U-00958-00217663-00217694 Committee
GUqCL67cD4U-00959-00217696-00217982 direct from the IPCC that all climate
GUqCL67cD4U-00960-00217983-00218198 targets need to be reconsidered can the
GUqCL67cD4U-00961-00218200-00218360 First Minister explain why the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-00962-00218361-00218580 Government has alongside the UK Tory
GUqCL67cD4U-00963-00218581-00218771 government ask their advisers to only
GUqCL67cD4U-00964-00218773-00218952 look at whether changes are required to
GUqCL67cD4U-00965-00218953-00219198 the long term climate target and not the
GUqCL67cD4U-00966-00219198-00219429 need to increase ambition between now
GUqCL67cD4U-00967-00219430-00219891 and 2030 - First Minister well we have
GUqCL67cD4U-00968-00219892-00220032 specifically asked them for the shorter
GUqCL67cD4U-00969-00220033-00220527 term as well secretary I will be
GUqCL67cD4U-00970-00220528-00220650 corrected if I'm getting that wrong that
GUqCL67cD4U-00971-00220651-00220842 that is the case we of course in terms
GUqCL67cD4U-00972-00220842-00221040 of the shorter term targets if you look
GUqCL67cD4U-00973-00221041-00221435 at 2020 and 2030 the targets set out in
GUqCL67cD4U-00974-00221436-00221534 the bill that's currently before
GUqCL67cD4U-00975-00221535-00221694 Parliament are already the most
GUqCL67cD4U-00976-00221694-00221960 stretching targets anywhere in the world
GUqCL67cD4U-00977-00221961-00222252 but in terms of the IPCC report which we
GUqCL67cD4U-00978-00222253-00222513 take extremely seriously the central
GUqCL67cD4U-00979-00222514-00222765 recommendation and the IPCC report is
GUqCL67cD4U-00980-00222766-00222935 that the world should reach carbon
GUqCL67cD4U-00981-00222936-00223206 neutrality by 2050 the bill that's
GUqCL67cD4U-00982-00223207-00223398 currently before Parliament delivers
GUqCL67cD4U-00983-00223398-00223617 that for Scotland we'd already passed
GUqCL67cD4U-00984-00223617-00223823 well past peak emissions which is the
GUqCL67cD4U-00985-00223825-00224082 other point the IPCC report makes about
GUqCL67cD4U-00986-00224083-00224205 the world needing to get to peak
GUqCL67cD4U-00987-00224206-00224519 emissions imminently so the bill does
GUqCL67cD4U-00988-00224521-00224757 that in terms of the aspiration that
GUqCL67cD4U-00989-00224758-00225075 many have that I share to go to net zero
GUqCL67cD4U-00990-00225076-00225332 for all emissions as quickly as possible
GUqCL67cD4U-00991-00225333-00225560 we've asked the committee and climate
GUqCL67cD4U-00992-00225561-00225734 change to give us updated advice because
GUqCL67cD4U-00993-00225735-00225966 it's existing advice says the ninety
GUqCL67cD4U-00994-00225967-00226191 percent by 2050 in the bill is already
GUqCL67cD4U-00995-00226192-00226398 at the limit of feasibility but of
GUqCL67cD4U-00996-00226398-00226656 course the bill puts obligations on
GUqCL67cD4U-00997-00226657-00226905 ministers to review these targets to get
GUqCL67cD4U-00998-00226906-00227096 to that net zero as quickly as possible
GUqCL67cD4U-00999-00227098-00227415 so we are recognized internationally as
GUqCL67cD4U-01000-00227416-00227676 a world leader and my determination is
GUqCL67cD4U-01001-00227677-00227894 that we stay at the leading edge of
GUqCL67cD4U-01002-00227896-00228044 wattled action to tackle climate change
GUqCL67cD4U-01003-00228046-00228248 for the benefit of this and perhaps even
GUqCL67cD4U-01004-00228250-00228467 more importantly future generations
GUqCL67cD4U-01005-00228467-00228864 tomorrow can I ask the First Minister
GUqCL67cD4U-01006-00228865-00229125 for her response to comments made in
GUqCL67cD4U-01007-00229126-00229404 this chamber yesterday that people
GUqCL67cD4U-01008-00229405-00229725 reliant upon social security including
GUqCL67cD4U-01009-00229726-00230031 those receiving and what benefits have
GUqCL67cD4U-01010-00230032-00230429 no right to have more than two children
GUqCL67cD4U-01011-00230430-00230798 first minister I think the comments that
GUqCL67cD4U-01012-00230798-00230927 were made by Michel Ballentine in this
GUqCL67cD4U-01013-00230928-00231131 chamber yesterday we're both appalling
GUqCL67cD4U-01014-00231132-00231551 and also ignorant of the reality facing
GUqCL67cD4U-01015-00231552-00232696 many families appalling because the idea
GUqCL67cD4U-01016-00232698-00232928 that being pure should be a barrier to
GUqCL67cD4U-01017-00232929-00233369 having a family is Dickensian and I
GUqCL67cD4U-01018-00233369-00233531 think shows the Scottish Conservatives
GUqCL67cD4U-01019-00233532-00233753 in their true colours but the comments
GUqCL67cD4U-01020-00233754-00233906 were also ignorant because of course the
GUqCL67cD4U-01021-00233907-00234209 rate Clause willing won't just apply
GUqCL67cD4U-01022-00234210-00234563 when children are first born from next
GUqCL67cD4U-01023-00234564-00234809 year it will apply to children of any
GUqCL67cD4U-01024-00234810-00235058 age should the family circumstances
GUqCL67cD4U-01025-00235059-00235250 changed so that they need to claim
GUqCL67cD4U-01026-00235251-00235580 benefits to defend the recourse misses
GUqCL67cD4U-01027-00235581-00235744 the point that any of us can have our
GUqCL67cD4U-01028-00235746-00235991 circumstances change at any time in what
GUqCL67cD4U-01029-00235992-00236150 Michelle Ballantine seems to be
GUqCL67cD4U-01030-00236151-00236342 suggesting is that if that happens to a
GUqCL67cD4U-01031-00236342-00236471 family who perhaps had three children
GUqCL67cD4U-01032-00236471-00236687 father were all in work suddenly fall
GUqCL67cD4U-01033-00236688-00236882 into different circumstances though
GUqCL67cD4U-01034-00236883-00237086 children should be penalized as a result
GUqCL67cD4U-01035-00237087-00237362 it is absolutely shameful the Social
GUqCL67cD4U-01036-00237363-00237590 Security safety net is there for all of
GUqCL67cD4U-01037-00237591-00237871 us should we need it in times of
GUqCL67cD4U-01038-00237873-00238096 distress or times of change
GUqCL67cD4U-01039-00238098-00238352 circumstances and frankly shame on the
GUqCL67cD4U-01040-00238353-00238532 Conservatives that they are dismantling
GUqCL67cD4U-01041-00238533-00239057 that social security safety Jackie
GUqCL67cD4U-01042-00239058-00239117 Baillie
GUqCL67cD4U-01043-00239119-00239402 [Applause]
GUqCL67cD4U-01044-00239403-00239640 the First Minister will be aware that
GUqCL67cD4U-01045-00239641-00239790 there are workers hired to build the
GUqCL67cD4U-01046-00239791-00240078 flagship 2.6 billion pound Beatrice
GUqCL67cD4U-01047-00240079-00240312 offshore windfarm that have included
GUqCL67cD4U-01048-00240313-00240546 migrants without immigration documents
GUqCL67cD4U-01049-00240546-00240809 paid a fraction of the minimum wage some
GUqCL67cD4U-01050-00240810-00241007 under five pounds an hour the Scottish
GUqCL67cD4U-01051-00241008-00241227 government believes that green energy is
GUqCL67cD4U-01052-00241228-00241416 a priority so will the First Minister
GUqCL67cD4U-01053-00241417-00241665 act to ensure that green jobs are not
GUqCL67cD4U-01054-00241666-00241890 exploited jobs and stop this from
GUqCL67cD4U-01055-00241891-00242048 happening to major infrastructure
GUqCL67cD4U-01056-00242050-00242228 projects in Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-01057-00242229-00242517 First Minister well I would unreservedly
GUqCL67cD4U-01058-00242517-00242732 condemn any employer that was exploiting
GUqCL67cD4U-01059-00242733-00243029 workers in that way I'm happy to ask the
GUqCL67cD4U-01060-00243030-00243162 economy secretary and the infrastructure
GUqCL67cD4U-01061-00243163-00243329 security to look into this specific case
GUqCL67cD4U-01062-00243330-00243579 and to give Jackie Baillie
GUqCL67cD4U-01063-00243580-00243782 the findings of that when they've had
GUqCL67cD4U-01064-00243783-00244004 the chance to do so but the expectation
GUqCL67cD4U-01065-00244005-00244160 of me as First Minister the expectation
GUqCL67cD4U-01066-00244161-00244367 of this Scottish government is that
GUqCL67cD4U-01067-00244369-00244754 employers have fear work policies in
GUqCL67cD4U-01068-00244755-00244934 fact we announced over the course of the
GUqCL67cD4U-01069-00244935-00245238 recess plans to toughen up our approach
GUqCL67cD4U-01070-00245239-00245507 to fear work both in terms of our
GUqCL67cD4U-01071-00245508-00245744 expectations when government grants are
GUqCL67cD4U-01072-00245746-00245885 granted or in the public procurement
GUqCL67cD4U-01073-00245886-00246039 system and of course we'll set up more
GUqCL67cD4U-01074-00246040-00246182 details with that to Parliament in due
GUqCL67cD4U-01075-00246183-00246215 course
GUqCL67cD4U-01076-00246216-00246525 Rachel Hamilton thank you despite
GUqCL67cD4U-01077-00246526-00246719 receiving influenza vaccine one of my
GUqCL67cD4U-01078-00246721-00246869 constituents developed pneumonia
GUqCL67cD4U-01079-00246871-00247077 requiring a full-day admission to the
GUqCL67cD4U-01080-00247078-00247242 borders General Hospital the First
GUqCL67cD4U-01081-00247242-00247448 Minister will be aware that in Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-01082-00247450-00247703 the new flu jab is only available to
GUqCL67cD4U-01083-00247704-00247998 over 75 s and last year influenza and
GUqCL67cD4U-01084-00247998-00248246 pneumonia deaths hit a 18-year high with
GUqCL67cD4U-01085-00248248-00248432 a cold snap predicted is the First
GUqCL67cD4U-01086-00248433-00248694 Minister confident that under 75 s are
GUqCL67cD4U-01087-00248694-00248916 properly protected and the NHS has the
GUqCL67cD4U-01088-00248917-00249123 correct resources it needs to prevent
GUqCL67cD4U-01089-00249123-00249221 further deaths
GUqCL67cD4U-01090-00249223-00249501 First Minister yes I am confident in our
GUqCL67cD4U-01091-00249502-00249710 vaccination programme and I think all of
GUqCL67cD4U-01092-00249711-00249867 us as responsible members of this
GUqCL67cD4U-01093-00249867-00249983 Parliament should encourage the public
GUqCL67cD4U-01094-00249984-00250157 to be confident in that vaccination
GUqCL67cD4U-01095-00250158-00250604 program as well the supply of the
GUqCL67cD4U-01096-00250605-00250827 vaccine is already available to GPS that
GUqCL67cD4U-01097-00250828-00251060 the program is already underway in terms
GUqCL67cD4U-01098-00251061-00251223 of the there's a number of different
GUqCL67cD4U-01099-00251223-00251448 vaccines in use in Scotland for
GUqCL67cD4U-01100-00251448-00251585 different groups of people in terms of
GUqCL67cD4U-01101-00251586-00251789 the over 75 of course it was the
GUqCL67cD4U-01102-00251790-00252017 recommendation of the GC VI that there
GUqCL67cD4U-01103-00252019-00252233 had to be a prioritization of that
GUqCL67cD4U-01104-00252234-00252438 vaccine then it should be over 75 s that
GUqCL67cD4U-01105-00252439-00252542 word in the priority do
GUqCL67cD4U-01106-00252542-00252717 that's what the Scottish government has
GUqCL67cD4U-01107-00252719-00252979 insured and of course it has been supply
GUqCL67cD4U-01108-00252980-00253277 issues beyond our control that has meant
GUqCL67cD4U-01109-00253278-00253519 that in this year we can't extend that
GUqCL67cD4U-01110-00253521-00253732 to over 65s but we will do that in
GUqCL67cD4U-01111-00253733-00253894 future years but the other vaccines the
GUqCL67cD4U-01112-00253896-00254098 vaccine that has been used for the over
GUqCL67cD4U-01113-00254100-00254329 65s is an effective vaccine and let me
GUqCL67cD4U-01114-00254330-00254473 take this opportunity to encourage all
GUqCL67cD4U-01115-00254475-00254719 those who haven't yet taken up the
GUqCL67cD4U-01116-00254721-00254948 vaccine and are eligible to do so to do
GUqCL67cD4U-01117-00254948-00255116 so as quickly as possible it not only
GUqCL67cD4U-01118-00255117-00255317 protects them it helps to protect the
GUqCL67cD4U-01119-00255317-00255583 population as a whole question about
GUqCL67cD4U-01120-00255584-00255856 five Christine Grahame Thank You
GUqCL67cD4U-01121-00255857-00256016 presiding officer to ask the First
GUqCL67cD4U-01122-00256017-00256169 Minister what the scottish government's
GUqCL67cD4U-01123-00256169-00256319 position is on the use of daylight
GUqCL67cD4U-01124-00256319-00256669 saving time mr. I'm aware of the
GUqCL67cD4U-01125-00256671-00256819 European Commission's proposal to end
GUqCL67cD4U-01126-00256821-00257048 current daylight saving arrangements the
GUqCL67cD4U-01127-00257048-00257189 Scottish government does not believe
GUqCL67cD4U-01128-00257190-00257354 there is a substantive economic or
GUqCL67cD4U-01129-00257355-00257537 social case for any change to these
GUqCL67cD4U-01130-00257538-00257777 arrangements the rural economy secretary
GUqCL67cD4U-01131-00257778-00257912 has the sweet written to the UK
GUqCL67cD4U-01132-00257913-00258109 government to stress that the effect of
GUqCL67cD4U-01133-00258110-00258290 the proposal if implemented would be
GUqCL67cD4U-01134-00258291-00258467 more pronounced in Scotland given
GUqCL67cD4U-01135-00258467-00258629 greater extremes in the extent of our
GUqCL67cD4U-01136-00258630-00258844 daylight hours the impact would likely
GUqCL67cD4U-01137-00258846-00258994 be particularly felt with the farming
GUqCL67cD4U-01138-00258996-00259169 community and other outdoor workers
GUqCL67cD4U-01139-00259169-00259309 we're currently engaging the
GUqCL67cD4U-01140-00259310-00259451 stakeholders to better understand the
GUqCL67cD4U-01141-00259452-00259648 potential impact of this proposal and we
GUqCL67cD4U-01142-00259650-00259807 will ensure that any concerns raised are
GUqCL67cD4U-01143-00259808-00259973 reflected in our ongoing discussions
GUqCL67cD4U-01144-00259973-00260280 with the UK government Christine Grahame
GUqCL67cD4U-01145-00260281-00260506 thank you also thank the First Minister
GUqCL67cD4U-01146-00260507-00260704 for her answer and Scottish government
GUqCL67cD4U-01147-00260705-00260896 support for putting the clocks back one
GUqCL67cD4U-01148-00260898-00261103 or this weekend which I must remember to
GUqCL67cD4U-01149-00261104-00261362 do is I didn't do one year can I welcome
GUqCL67cD4U-01150-00261363-00261503 the letter from the Quebec the light of
GUqCL67cD4U-01151-00261504-00261673 the cabinet secretary for rural economy
GUqCL67cD4U-01152-00261675-00261871 to the UK government which sometimes
GUqCL67cD4U-01153-00261873-00262073 being located so far south fails to
GUqCL67cD4U-01154-00262073-00262279 recognize how longer winter mornings can
GUqCL67cD4U-01155-00262280-00262528 be but can I ask the cabinet say if the
GUqCL67cD4U-01156-00262529-00262712 cabinet's cabinet secretary for
GUqCL67cD4U-01157-00262713-00262957 transport will also contact the UK
GUqCL67cD4U-01158-00262958-00263114 government on the issue of road traffic
GUqCL67cD4U-01159-00263115-00263329 accidents and they need the effect of
GUqCL67cD4U-01160-00263330-00263495 these dark mornings on the safety of our
GUqCL67cD4U-01161-00263496-00263725 schoolchildren walking to school
GUqCL67cD4U-01162-00263726-00263924 particularly in rural areas with new
GUqCL67cD4U-01163-00263925-00264146 pavements and low street lighting such
GUqCL67cD4U-01164-00264147-00264347 as in my constituency of the borders in
GUqCL67cD4U-01165-00264348-00264665 Midlothian First Minister I'm tempted to
GUqCL67cD4U-01166-00264666-00264800 say that the fact that Chris Tingley
GUqCL67cD4U-01167-00264801-00264950 immediate a lapse of memory these years
GUqCL67cD4U-01168-00264951-00265159 ago is one hour out of sync with the
GUqCL67cD4U-01169-00265160-00265378 rest of us might explain an awful an
GUqCL67cD4U-01170-00265379-00265482 awful lot
GUqCL67cD4U-01171-00265483-00265731 I'm sure I'll pay dearly for that
GUqCL67cD4U-01172-00265732-00265943 comment in the weeks and months to come
GUqCL67cD4U-01173-00265944-00266409 this is this issue and we'll be happy to
GUqCL67cD4U-01174-00266410-00266574 meet the letter from the rural economy
GUqCL67cD4U-01175-00266575-00266820 secretary available to Parliament and of
GUqCL67cD4U-01176-00266821-00267006 course likewise with any response we
GUqCL67cD4U-01177-00267007-00267165 receive as I said a man so we're
GUqCL67cD4U-01178-00267166-00267321 currently gathering views and what the
GUqCL67cD4U-01179-00267322-00267513 impact of the proposed change would be
GUqCL67cD4U-01180-00267514-00267726 and that will include the impact on
GUqCL67cD4U-01181-00267727-00267948 transport and other areas highlighted by
GUqCL67cD4U-01182-00267949-00268116 Christine Grahame the Commission is
GUqCL67cD4U-01183-00268117-00268272 stated in its own proposals that the
GUqCL67cD4U-01184-00268273-00268488 evidence is currently inconclusive in
GUqCL67cD4U-01185-00268489-00268701 terms of Road Safety so we will continue
GUqCL67cD4U-01186-00268702-00268854 to leave with the UK government that
GUqCL67cD4U-01187-00268855-00269079 says I reserved matter with the
GUqCL67cD4U-01188-00269080-00269238 transport sector and rural communities
GUqCL67cD4U-01189-00269239-00269412 on this important issue and if there are
GUqCL67cD4U-01190-00269413-00269547 issues that the transport secretary
GUqCL67cD4U-01191-00269548-00269757 requires also Teresa he will certainly
GUqCL67cD4U-01192-00269758-00270084 do so apologies for go over time for
GUqCL67cD4U-01193-00270085-00270414 question 6 Thank You presiding officer
GUqCL67cD4U-01194-00270415-00270588 to ask the First Minister what the
GUqCL67cD4U-01195-00270589-00270780 Scottish government's position is on the
GUqCL67cD4U-01196-00270781-00270897 report from chest Heart and Stroke
GUqCL67cD4U-01197-00270898-00271116 Scotland which suggests that one in five
GUqCL67cD4U-01198-00271117-00271365 patients are not receiving the support
GUqCL67cD4U-01199-00271366-00271593 they require First Minister we welcome
GUqCL67cD4U-01200-00271594-00271734 chest Heart and Stroke Scotland report
GUqCL67cD4U-01201-00271735-00271872 and we'll continue to work alongside
GUqCL67cD4U-01202-00271873-00272088 them to support people living with and
GUqCL67cD4U-01203-00272089-00272283 affected by these conditions our plans
GUqCL67cD4U-01204-00272284-00272484 to improve rehabilitation are seto and
GUqCL67cD4U-01205-00272485-00272652 our stroke and heart disease improvement
GUqCL67cD4U-01206-00272653-00272862 plans we're working in partnership with
GUqCL67cD4U-01207-00272863-00273048 NHS boards the voluntary sector and a
GUqCL67cD4U-01208-00273049-00273225 range of providers across health and
GUqCL67cD4U-01209-00273226-00273363 social care to help ensure people who
GUqCL67cD4U-01210-00273364-00273552 have heart disease or have had a stroke
GUqCL67cD4U-01211-00273553-00273726 get access to the care and support they
GUqCL67cD4U-01212-00273727-00273882 need to help them return to independent
GUqCL67cD4U-01213-00273883-00274065 living a strategy for tackling strokes
GUqCL67cD4U-01214-00274066-00274185 and heart disease is delivering
GUqCL67cD4U-01215-00274186-00274332 improvements with mortality rates
GUqCL67cD4U-01216-00274333-00274647 reducing by around 40% for both stroke
GUqCL67cD4U-01217-00274648-00274806 and coronary heart disease over the past
GUqCL67cD4U-01218-00274807-00275070 ten years pulmonary rehabilitation is
GUqCL67cD4U-01219-00275071-00275241 already a key recommendation in our
GUqCL67cD4U-01220-00275242-00275445 national clinical guidelines as
GUqCL67cD4U-01221-00275446-00275649 understood I thank the First Minister
GUqCL67cD4U-01222-00275650-00275913 for that response what students Iskander
GUqCL67cD4U-01223-00275914-00276048 Scottish Government giver that it will
GUqCL67cD4U-01224-00276049-00276309 do all it can to end existing variations
GUqCL67cD4U-01225-00276310-00276546 and access to NHS rehabilitation
GUqCL67cD4U-01226-00276547-00276828 services as well as do provide allied
GUqCL67cD4U-01227-00276829-00277011 health professionals when pulmonary
GUqCL67cD4U-01228-00277012-00277185 rehabilitation is already within
GUqCL67cD4U-01229-00277186-00277416 clinical guidelines yet an estimated
GUqCL67cD4U-01230-00277417-00277614 60,000 people are not currently
GUqCL67cD4U-01231-00277615-00277863 receiving it
GUqCL67cD4U-01232-00277864-00278121 well firstly can I say again that we
GUqCL67cD4U-01233-00278122-00278271 welcome this report by chest Heart and
GUqCL67cD4U-01234-00278272-00278416 Stroke Scotland and I went to see the
GUqCL67cD4U-01235-00278417-00278566 opportunity today to commend them for
GUqCL67cD4U-01236-00278567-00278713 the work that they do the health
GUqCL67cD4U-01237-00278714-00278997 secretary recently made with them to
GUqCL67cD4U-01238-00278998-00279187 begin discussions with them on the
GUqCL67cD4U-01239-00279188-00279364 campaign as she has given them a
GUqCL67cD4U-01240-00279365-00279453 commitment and I will repeat that
GUqCL67cD4U-01241-00279454-00279678 commitment today to continue these
GUqCL67cD4U-01242-00279679-00279831 discussions to see how we can move
GUqCL67cD4U-01243-00279832-00280104 towards the right to rehab end result
GUqCL67cD4U-01244-00280105-00280560 that CH SS are looking for we as I say
GUqCL67cD4U-01245-00280561-00280796 already have plans to improve
GUqCL67cD4U-01246-00280797-00281022 rehabilitation in place through the
GUqCL67cD4U-01247-00281023-00281196 stroke in heart disease improvement
GUqCL67cD4U-01248-00281197-00281290 plans
GUqCL67cD4U-01249-00281291-00281488 these include priorities on rehab
GUqCL67cD4U-01250-00281489-00281658 transition to the community and
GUqCL67cD4U-01251-00281659-00281842 supported self-management to support
GUqCL67cD4U-01252-00281843-00282142 people living longer healthier lives in
GUqCL67cD4U-01253-00282143-00282345 their own communities a stroke
GUqCL67cD4U-01254-00282346-00282474 improvement team in the cardiac
GUqCL67cD4U-01255-00282475-00282708 rehabilitation champion are working
GUqCL67cD4U-01256-00282709-00282927 across health and social care with this
GUqCL67cD4U-01257-00282928-00283080 third sector as well to help us deliver
GUqCL67cD4U-01258-00283081-00283339 on these priorities so we will continue
GUqCL67cD4U-01259-00283340-00283650 to take forward our existing proposals
GUqCL67cD4U-01260-00283651-00283773 and any enhanced proposals that are
GUqCL67cD4U-01261-00283774-00283942 required as a result of our discussions
GUqCL67cD4U-01262-00283943-00284105 with Chase Heart and Stroke Scotland
GUqCL67cD4U-01263-00284106-00284325 thank you very much that concludes
GUqCL67cD4U-01264-00284326-00284628 Christmas questions we're now going to
GUqCL67cD4U-01265-00284629-00284778 move on to members business in the name
GUqCL67cD4U-01266-00284779-00284976 of Jimmy Howard Johnson but before we do
GUqCL67cD4U-01267-00284977-00285122 we're going to have a short suspension
GUqCL67cD4U-01268-00285123-00285423 simply to allow the public gallery to
GUqCL67cD4U-01269-00285424-00285708 clear and our guests for the next debate
GUqCL67cD4U-01270-00285709-00286074 to arrive a short suspension
GYtfdB41P-g-00000-00000039-00000303 hey globes so i was just
GYtfdB41P-g-00001-00000304-00000663 watching fly in the bathroom and i
GYtfdB41P-g-00002-00000664-00000950 i got to thinking you know this little
GYtfdB41P-g-00003-00000951-00001023 fly
GYtfdB41P-g-00004-00001024-00001295 can overcome gravity so i thought well
GYtfdB41P-g-00005-00001296-00001407 you know how much
GYtfdB41P-g-00006-00001408-00001751 how much ocean is there and this well
GYtfdB41P-g-00007-00001752-00001871 there are two different answers because
GYtfdB41P-g-00008-00001872-00002039 of course it's all
GYtfdB41P-g-00009-00002039-00002426 made up but see this one says
GYtfdB41P-g-00010-00002427-00002663 1.3796 tillion kilograms
GYtfdB41P-g-00011-00002664-00003007 or three something whatever which is
GYtfdB41P-g-00012-00003008-00003183 so it's a number so big they're using
GYtfdB41P-g-00013-00003184-00003351 gibberish words and then this is one
GYtfdB41P-g-00014-00003352-00003590 million quadrillion tons
GYtfdB41P-g-00015-00003592-00003943 so you know it's a lot so how can a
GYtfdB41P-g-00016-00003944-00004286 billion sextillion pound ton
GYtfdB41P-g-00017-00004287-00004686 whatever ocean
GYtfdB41P-g-00018-00004687-00004854 be stuck to the bottom of a spinning
GYtfdB41P-g-00019-00004855-00005015 ball
GYtfdB41P-g-00020-00005016-00005438 but a fly can fly
GYtfdB41P-g-00021-00005439-00005815 there's a tiny little fly stronger than
GYtfdB41P-g-00022-00005816-00006175 all the oceans put together
GYtfdB41P-g-00023-00006176-00006704 food for thought global heads
GbBjcpTt2Iy-00000-00000000-00002183 [Music]
GbBjcpTt2Iy-00001-00002184-00002392 you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00000-00000404-00000728 diversification not sure is it about the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00001-00000729-00001979 diverse type of activities if there is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00002-00001980-00002327 actually content that person cannot find
GfaE9FxcPrA-00003-00002328-00002560 elsewhere so kind of exclusive content
GfaE9FxcPrA-00004-00002561-00002840 that also keeps kind of motivating to go
GfaE9FxcPrA-00005-00002841-00004138 there and learn yeah so it's about this
GfaE9FxcPrA-00006-00004139-00004703 balance between being serious about the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00007-00004704-00005020 content but also having having some fun
GfaE9FxcPrA-00008-00005021-00006211 out there that's not too long visuals
GfaE9FxcPrA-00009-00006212-00007523 these are in content yeah anyone would
GfaE9FxcPrA-00010-00007523-00008219 like to peek and maybe comment on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00011-00008220-00008785 something you wrote so you can enable
GfaE9FxcPrA-00012-00008786-00010800 your microphone or a video I'm just here
GfaE9FxcPrA-00013-00010801-00011086 yeah so we have things around the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00014-00011087-00011299 content so if the content is engaging
GfaE9FxcPrA-00015-00011300-00011485 and interesting and if it's exclusive
GfaE9FxcPrA-00016-00011486-00011788 we have things around the house so it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00017-00011789-00012070 more the design the videos a good
GfaE9FxcPrA-00018-00012071-00012427 balance between fun and seriousness we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00019-00012428-00012631 have a bit so that there is an app
GfaE9FxcPrA-00020-00012632-00012907 iversity or seeing that you make
GfaE9FxcPrA-00021-00012908-00013240 progress in learning it's also
GfaE9FxcPrA-00022-00013241-00013786 interesting to see now how close it is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00023-00013787-00014125 actually to non online learning to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00024-00014126-00014434 in-person learning right I think we will
GfaE9FxcPrA-00025-00014435-00014694 have this question for any kind of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00026-00014696-00014875 learning there would be many quite
GfaE9FxcPrA-00027-00014876-00015825 similar things there as well right I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00028-00015826-00016057 just keep wondering if it's really the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00029-00016058-00016319 same or is it something that we kind of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00030-00016321-00016654 still speak for from being very familiar
GfaE9FxcPrA-00031-00016655-00016828 with the face-to-face environment you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00032-00016829-00017041 know so it's kind of did we expect the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00033-00017042-00017218 same things I bet I mean some things are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00034-00017219-00017341 the same and we are the same people so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00035-00017342-00017539 if you like things visual then you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00036-00017540-00017716 probably would like them in residential
GfaE9FxcPrA-00037-00017717-00018037 or face-to-face or online but I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00038-00018038-00018328 some of it is maybe more also the okay
GfaE9FxcPrA-00039-00018329-00018469 the force of habit
GfaE9FxcPrA-00040-00018470-00019564 I wonder okay so thanks for for the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00041-00019565-00020094 initial contributions we will go on and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00042-00020095-00020368 here I will give were to just add a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00043-00020369-00020713 little bit to make certain distinctions
GfaE9FxcPrA-00044-00020714-00020950 distinction between different types of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00045-00020951-00021166 learning and it's about also a bit of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00046-00021167-00021397 terminology that perhaps might be for
GfaE9FxcPrA-00047-00021398-00021742 some of you because the way the course
GfaE9FxcPrA-00048-00021743-00022036 is designed the way it goes makes
GfaE9FxcPrA-00049-00022037-00022357 influence on engagement pros and it kind
GfaE9FxcPrA-00050-00022358-00022624 of expectation towards how much people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00051-00022625-00022888 are expected to be engaged and involved
GfaE9FxcPrA-00052-00022889-00023527 in course activities yeah this is people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00053-00023528-00023782 thinking whether to include this or not
GfaE9FxcPrA-00054-00023783-00024007 so it's not yeah we and finally we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00055-00024008-00024295 decided to do it not so we would have a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00056-00024296-00024481 little theoretical input but really as
GfaE9FxcPrA-00057-00024482-00024637 I'm gonna said it does have a difference
GfaE9FxcPrA-00058-00024638-00024865 on when we speak about engagement what
GfaE9FxcPrA-00059-00024866-00025063 type of course it is and then what we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00060-00025064-00025303 can expect I'm thinking that maybe we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00061-00025304-00025456 could have made a little PowerPoint here
GfaE9FxcPrA-00062-00025457-00025677 but okay that's for the next step so I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00063-00025679-00025995 try to make it short and also to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00064-00025997-00026145 acknowledge that probably a lot of you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00065-00026147-00026341 know this already yeah so this is just
GfaE9FxcPrA-00066-00026342-00026658 kind of a short summary so the first
GfaE9FxcPrA-00067-00026660-00026808 thing it's to make a distinction
GfaE9FxcPrA-00068-00026810-00027108 distinction is whether the course is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00069-00027108-00027558 synchronous or asynchronous yeah what
GfaE9FxcPrA-00070-00027560-00027795 does that mean yeah it's that if it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00071-00027797-00028066 synchronous that means that the content
GfaE9FxcPrA-00072-00028067-00028255 that is being delivered or facilitate it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00073-00028256-00028405 means that everyone needs to be online
GfaE9FxcPrA-00074-00028406-00028689 at the same time yeah so for example a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00075-00028691-00028845 webinar yeah so this what we're doing
GfaE9FxcPrA-00076-00028847-00029070 right now is a synchronous online
GfaE9FxcPrA-00077-00029072-00029257 learning and we are all together here
GfaE9FxcPrA-00078-00029258-00029449 and there is some content being
GfaE9FxcPrA-00079-00029450-00029595 delivered and facilitate that there is a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00080-00029597-00029814 conversation going on and and yeah
GfaE9FxcPrA-00081-00029816-00030061 that's it it doesn't need to be video
GfaE9FxcPrA-00082-00030062-00030268 per se or a video conferencing it can be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00083-00030269-00030445 let's all meet in the discussion groups
GfaE9FxcPrA-00084-00030445-00030670 at the same time in the forum yeah but
GfaE9FxcPrA-00085-00030670-00030883 still everyone needs to be there and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00086-00030883-00031077 then there is asynchronous where you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00087-00031079-00031267 basically it's the opposite no you put
GfaE9FxcPrA-00088-00031268-00031438 the content content is there and the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00089-00031439-00031750 people then take it when they when they
GfaE9FxcPrA-00090-00031751-00031920 need it or want it or they plan their
GfaE9FxcPrA-00091-00031922-00032161 week yeah so I think when Michelle was
GfaE9FxcPrA-00092-00032162-00032335 announcing the online course for example
GfaE9FxcPrA-00093-00032336-00032512 before when we thought that we would
GfaE9FxcPrA-00094-00032513-00032680 still meet in although it said it will
GfaE9FxcPrA-00095-00032681-00032902 take you I don't know maybe what was
GfaE9FxcPrA-00096-00032903-00033094 it's two hours per day yeah and then
GfaE9FxcPrA-00097-00033095-00033277 it's up to you to choose which two hours
GfaE9FxcPrA-00098-00033278-00033445 you take for this and but you don't have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00099-00033446-00033745 to be there at whatever time is now 1234
GfaE9FxcPrA-00100-00033746-00033994 yeah both of course have their
GfaE9FxcPrA-00101-00033995-00034159 advantages disadvantages maybe we talk
GfaE9FxcPrA-00102-00034160-00034333 about it later where we talk about tips
GfaE9FxcPrA-00103-00034334-00034510 or something from our experience and so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00104-00034511-00034711 on but just to know the synchronous is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00105-00034712-00034971 generally more difficult to organize
GfaE9FxcPrA-00106-00034972-00035161 because of the people's availabilities
GfaE9FxcPrA-00107-00035162-00035415 but at the same time might have a little
GfaE9FxcPrA-00108-00035416-00035767 like a bigger impact on on engagement
GfaE9FxcPrA-00109-00035768-00036001 yeah so and of course whatever you have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00110-00036002-00036157 to posts then you have the combination
GfaE9FxcPrA-00111-00036158-00036340 so of course you can make your online
GfaE9FxcPrA-00112-00036341-00036523 learning as a combination of synchronous
GfaE9FxcPrA-00113-00036524-00036745 and asynchronous activities yeah
GfaE9FxcPrA-00114-00036746-00036961 so this is one and thank you lemons for
GfaE9FxcPrA-00115-00036962-00037114 putting in in the chat then
GfaE9FxcPrA-00116-00037115-00037372 also and some things are overlapping
GfaE9FxcPrA-00117-00037373-00037588 between these divisions you have paced
GfaE9FxcPrA-00118-00037589-00037879 and self-paced courses yeah paced means
GfaE9FxcPrA-00119-00037880-00038038 that is the facilitator or the course
GfaE9FxcPrA-00120-00038039-00038236 creator that decides when certain
GfaE9FxcPrA-00121-00038237-00038536 content will be will be delivered that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00122-00038537-00038650 doesn't mean that it needs to be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00123-00038651-00038812 synchronous that you need to be there at
GfaE9FxcPrA-00124-00038813-00038974 the same time but let's say every week
GfaE9FxcPrA-00125-00038975-00039379 on Monday the certain unit is being
GfaE9FxcPrA-00126-00039380-00039580 revealed and I think for those who were
GfaE9FxcPrA-00127-00039581-00039703 there on Wednesday when I shared
GfaE9FxcPrA-00128-00039704-00039964 experiences from yokomo or from the MOOC
GfaE9FxcPrA-00129-00039965-00040390 on European solidarity core there we for
GfaE9FxcPrA-00130-00040391-00040708 example had it was mostly self-paced
GfaE9FxcPrA-00131-00040709-00040849 yeah for example in the mode that we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00132-00040850-00041023 delivered all the units and then it was
GfaE9FxcPrA-00133-00041024-00041227 up to people which you need they want to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00134-00041228-00041515 tackle at which point in which order and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00135-00041516-00041758 son yeah but if it's paced that means
GfaE9FxcPrA-00136-00041759-00041962 that you know this week we do this on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00137-00041963-00042118 Wednesday we are going to have a webinar
GfaE9FxcPrA-00138-00042119-00042289 on Thursday we are going to have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00139-00042290-00042466 discussion groups you have a deadline on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00140-00042467-00042646 Saturday to deliver group work
GfaE9FxcPrA-00141-00042647-00042931 and so on yeah again that also has an
GfaE9FxcPrA-00142-00042932-00043180 impact on the on engagement and how do
GfaE9FxcPrA-00143-00043181-00043579 we see the engagement and then also
GfaE9FxcPrA-00144-00043580-00043789 similar but still another division is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00145-00043790-00043993 whether the course is facilitated or its
GfaE9FxcPrA-00146-00043994-00044254 standalone yeah so what we are having
GfaE9FxcPrA-00147-00044255-00044455 right now it's very much a very very
GfaE9FxcPrA-00148-00044456-00044689 facilitated course yeah so you have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00149-00044690-00044884 facilitators all the time with video
GfaE9FxcPrA-00150-00044885-00045115 conferencing also checking whether you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00151-00045116-00045283 are in your small groups taking
GfaE9FxcPrA-00152-00045284-00045610 reflections and so on stand alone is if
GfaE9FxcPrA-00153-00045611-00045829 you basically create a course and that's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00154-00045830-00046066 it mmm so facilitation is maybe this
GfaE9FxcPrA-00155-00046067-00046237 more background facilitation that you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00156-00046238-00046453 influence it with the design with the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00157-00046454-00046615 content with the questions that you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00158-00046616-00046837 asked and so on but it's really there
GfaE9FxcPrA-00159-00046838-00047050 are no facilitation there again a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00160-00047051-00047239 combination of course it's possible is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00161-00047240-00047434 that you can have a facilitated course
GfaE9FxcPrA-00162-00047435-00047728 for for some time and then you have it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00163-00047729-00047893 standalone like what we did for example
GfaE9FxcPrA-00164-00047894-00048019 with the MOOC on European solidarity
GfaE9FxcPrA-00165-00048020-00048268 core there is a face where the course is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00166-00048269-00048445 facilitated and then there is a face
GfaE9FxcPrA-00167-00048446-00048640 where content is still there but the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00168-00048641-00048865 facilitators are not engaging so much
GfaE9FxcPrA-00169-00048866-00049156 here so this is yet another division
GfaE9FxcPrA-00170-00049157-00049378 these are kind of something to know when
GfaE9FxcPrA-00171-00049379-00049528 you think about which courses you will
GfaE9FxcPrA-00172-00049529-00049756 take yeah and all of them more or less
GfaE9FxcPrA-00173-00049757-00050115 are possible with MOOCs but also smaller
GfaE9FxcPrA-00174-00050116-00050380 courses although you know they would all
GfaE9FxcPrA-00175-00050381-00050494 have their preferences
GfaE9FxcPrA-00176-00050495-00050725 so with the blended courses or smaller
GfaE9FxcPrA-00177-00050726-00050893 online courses you will mostly have more
GfaE9FxcPrA-00178-00050894-00051109 involvement from the facilitators and in
GfaE9FxcPrA-00179-00051110-00051304 MOOCs less but the combinations are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00180-00051304-00051469 possible yep
GfaE9FxcPrA-00181-00051470-00051721 do we have maybe any questions or people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00182-00051722-00051808 that would like to share their
GfaE9FxcPrA-00183-00051809-00052004 experience or ask something about this
GfaE9FxcPrA-00184-00052005-00053536 these things Wow you can take the mics
GfaE9FxcPrA-00185-00053537-00053887 you can also type of course I see a two
GfaE9FxcPrA-00186-00053888-00054064 three people typing but you can feel
GfaE9FxcPrA-00187-00054065-00054976 free to take the mic I'd clear okay sure
GfaE9FxcPrA-00188-00054977-00055303 I think I don't know maybe this is one
GfaE9FxcPrA-00189-00055304-00055783 word I think with online learning the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00190-00055784-00056026 temptation is to look also a little bit
GfaE9FxcPrA-00191-00056027-00056460 about finances and so the temptation is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00192-00056461-00056944 so why can it be self self-paced and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00193-00056945-00057286 standalone and because we already
GfaE9FxcPrA-00194-00057287-00057532 involved invest a lot in platform and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00195-00057533-00057741 developing the course is creating videos
GfaE9FxcPrA-00196-00057742-00058104 and and maybe we cut down the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00197-00058105-00058594 facilitators so my plan would be to slow
GfaE9FxcPrA-00198-00058595-00058854 down here a little bit and really have a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00199-00058855-00059221 look also at your target group you know
GfaE9FxcPrA-00200-00059222-00059425 I mean oh it's maybe something different
GfaE9FxcPrA-00201-00059426-00059695 if you work with trainers and and you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00202-00059696-00060025 offer a course to trainers or you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00203-00060026-00060436 workers offer a course to mentors are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00204-00060437-00060820 all to young people then the question of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00205-00060821-00061254 facilitation comes quite important and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00206-00061255-00061633 you need to have a look yeah so so it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00207-00061634-00061869 not this kind of immediately to say okay
GfaE9FxcPrA-00208-00061870-00062152 yeah maybe we go this way or this way
GfaE9FxcPrA-00209-00062153-00062379 but have a look at your target group and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00210-00062380-00062566 what kind of support do they need and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00211-00062566-00062880 then kind of answer the question how and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00212-00062882-00063211 how often and how much do you need to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00213-00063212-00063573 invest in the facilitation
GfaE9FxcPrA-00214-00063574-00063692 thank you for that Michelle I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00215-00063694-00063900 there is also one lie - is answering one
GfaE9FxcPrA-00216-00063901-00064050 question and then Anna is asking
GfaE9FxcPrA-00217-00064051-00064170 something that I think have a past -
GfaE9FxcPrA-00218-00064171-00064359 Lyman has to answer but I just wanted to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00219-00064360-00064512 give you another example to support what
GfaE9FxcPrA-00220-00064513-00064691 Mischa was saying I'm also for people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00221-00064692-00064944 who know me they know but I'm very much
GfaE9FxcPrA-00222-00064945-00065184 into board games and also educational
GfaE9FxcPrA-00223-00065185-00065373 game design and we are really aspiring
GfaE9FxcPrA-00224-00065374-00065565 to create a board game that doesn't need
GfaE9FxcPrA-00225-00065566-00065730 facilitation yeah so it's a standalone
GfaE9FxcPrA-00226-00065731-00065958 board game and we are struggling a lot
GfaE9FxcPrA-00227-00065959-00066216 and I have recently come to actually
GfaE9FxcPrA-00228-00066217-00066468 accept that that's okay you know so we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00229-00066469-00066678 leave the standalone board games to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00230-00066679-00066858 commercial designers but I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00231-00066859-00067059 facilitation is something that we do
GfaE9FxcPrA-00232-00067060-00067233 well in our educational field and it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00233-00067234-00067359 something that really could support the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00234-00067360-00067542 learners yeah and actually when you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00235-00067543-00067845 create standalone courses you really
GfaE9FxcPrA-00236-00067846-00068112 need to juggle very well what content
GfaE9FxcPrA-00237-00068113-00068322 can you offer so you make sure that the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00238-00068323-00068520 support is not necessary yeah so when I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00239-00068521-00068661 was giving you an example that we will
GfaE9FxcPrA-00240-00068662-00068814 try out with this voice guided
GfaE9FxcPrA-00241-00068815-00068988 facilitation I would never ever try to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00242-00068989-00069222 do it in a standalone course yeah so to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00243-00069223-00069375 have an activity where people are left
GfaE9FxcPrA-00244-00069376-00069642 on their own to do something without the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00245-00069643-00069906 support em but yeah maybe more on on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00246-00069907-00070244 MOOCs I think that best to you Lyman
GfaE9FxcPrA-00247-00070245-00070617 yeah so I can answer at us I think I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00248-00070618-00070886 answered already Christine's question on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00249-00070887-00071145 was the difference between a synchronous
GfaE9FxcPrA-00250-00071146-00071442 courses and self-paced courses and Allah
GfaE9FxcPrA-00251-00071443-00071766 is asking you know what did you address
GfaE9FxcPrA-00252-00071767-00072012 during the facilitated phase before
GfaE9FxcPrA-00253-00072013-00072536 making it available as a standalone
GfaE9FxcPrA-00254-00072537-00072885 usually usually the courses are either
GfaE9FxcPrA-00255-00072886-00073119 you know facilitated or totally self
GfaE9FxcPrA-00256-00073120-00073497 paced so I think still is good to have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00257-00073498-00073782 certain certain level of facilitation or
GfaE9FxcPrA-00258-00073783-00073956 rather would save moderation or
GfaE9FxcPrA-00259-00073957-00074208 especially when there are forums open
GfaE9FxcPrA-00260-00074209-00074444 for contributions and sometimes just
GfaE9FxcPrA-00261-00074445-00074679 helping people to understand what is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00262-00074680-00075015 actually the question or sometimes it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00263-00075016-00075203 reminding people the so-called
GfaE9FxcPrA-00264-00075204-00075612 netiquette so etiquette online like the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00265-00075613-00075783 basic rules that they have to be you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00266-00075784-00076095 know specific you you shouldn't be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00267-00076096-00076346 impolite to others or you should add
GfaE9FxcPrA-00268-00076347-00076707 hyperlinks instead of putting huge links
GfaE9FxcPrA-00269-00076708-00076860 so there are certain
GfaE9FxcPrA-00270-00076861-00077013 etiquette aspects that sometimes
GfaE9FxcPrA-00271-00077014-00077340 requires two facilitators to intervene
GfaE9FxcPrA-00272-00077341-00077685 and remind people of modest even though
GfaE9FxcPrA-00273-00077686-00077894 this is something often written on the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00274-00077895-00078113 top of discussion for example or it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00275-00078114-00078338 written in the introductory session but
GfaE9FxcPrA-00276-00078339-00078486 if you make self-paced course often
GfaE9FxcPrA-00277-00078487-00078705 people decide whatever they want to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00278-00078706-00078942 start and then they would skip some
GfaE9FxcPrA-00279-00078943-00079287 intros and then move on directly into
GfaE9FxcPrA-00280-00079288-00079548 something and they would miss few basics
GfaE9FxcPrA-00281-00079549-00079998 how to communicate online so I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00282-00079999-00080247 sometimes it's it's good to have maybe
GfaE9FxcPrA-00283-00080248-00080444 at the beginning like setting up the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00284-00080445-00080655 rules setting of the conditions
GfaE9FxcPrA-00285-00080656-00080844 explaining people technical part and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00286-00080845-00081561 then it goes on yeah so and then usually
GfaE9FxcPrA-00287-00081562-00081834 when it's like fully facilitated course
GfaE9FxcPrA-00288-00081835-00082062 then we as facilitators we online we're
GfaE9FxcPrA-00289-00082063-00082301 answering people's questions we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00290-00082302-00082679 sometimes promoting their discussion
GfaE9FxcPrA-00291-00082680-00082931 sometimes even opening a new discussion
GfaE9FxcPrA-00292-00082932-00083169 topic if we see something is emerging in
GfaE9FxcPrA-00293-00083170-00083528 one place yeah also when it comes to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00294-00083529-00083730 synchronous activities like webinars
GfaE9FxcPrA-00295-00083731-00083969 then of course facilitator roles is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00296-00083970-00084632 quite clear there so yeah I've talking
GfaE9FxcPrA-00297-00084633-00084984 more about massive open online courses
GfaE9FxcPrA-00298-00084985-00085503 which often are based on a synchronous
GfaE9FxcPrA-00299-00085504-00085819 activities meaning that you can take
GfaE9FxcPrA-00300-00085820-00086225 course content at any time of the day in
GfaE9FxcPrA-00301-00086226-00086718 a way you are not asked to join webinar
GfaE9FxcPrA-00302-00086719-00086940 together you're not asked to really be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00303-00086941-00087291 somewhere online at the same time and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00304-00087292-00087666 it's done because MOOCs deal with huge
GfaE9FxcPrA-00305-00087667-00087891 numbers of people you know hundreds and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00306-00087892-00088157 thousands and sometimes a few thousand
GfaE9FxcPrA-00307-00088158-00088587 people so when doing any synchronous
GfaE9FxcPrA-00308-00088588-00088988 activities usually people feel oh I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00309-00088989-00089063 cannot make it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00310-00089064-00089318 and then people drop out now so it's a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00311-00089319-00089541 tricky thing to have too many
GfaE9FxcPrA-00312-00089542-00089772 synchronous activities because people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00313-00089773-00090000 feel like oh there is a pressure to be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00314-00090001-00090213 there but I cannot
GfaE9FxcPrA-00315-00090214-00090618 take it now so actually one of the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00316-00090619-00091062 interesting things in terms of reducing
GfaE9FxcPrA-00317-00091063-00091326 dropout rates for the MOOCs for the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00318-00091327-00091754 courses which involved many people is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00319-00091755-00092138 sometimes not to over engage people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00320-00092139-00092601 meaning that the more we give
GfaE9FxcPrA-00321-00092602-00092858 assignments the more we give deadlines
GfaE9FxcPrA-00322-00092859-00093126 some people cannot make it for the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00323-00093127-00093363 deadline because of their works that is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00324-00093364-00093624 and so on and then they drop out yeah if
GfaE9FxcPrA-00325-00093625-00093957 I say oh there is a webinar and people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00326-00093958-00094248 feel like I cannot make it and then they
GfaE9FxcPrA-00327-00094249-00094613 drop out again so it's good to have this
GfaE9FxcPrA-00328-00094614-00094929 kind of balance between the activities
GfaE9FxcPrA-00329-00094930-00095001 and so on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00330-00095002-00095226 when we first launched MOOC on on canvas
GfaE9FxcPrA-00331-00095227-00095421 network people who are giving us advice
GfaE9FxcPrA-00332-00095422-00095703 is they're like try not to have too many
GfaE9FxcPrA-00333-00095704-00095964 discussions like give people chance to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00334-00095965-00096245 really relax and consume the content and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00335-00096246-00096522 then time to discuss but if there is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00336-00096523-00096759 discussion after each video it just
GfaE9FxcPrA-00337-00096760-00096978 could be too tiring for people to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00338-00096979-00097278 contribute a lot so in that sense is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00339-00097279-00097584 good to have a balance of not really
GfaE9FxcPrA-00340-00097585-00098406 over engaging in a way what we hear you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00341-00098407-00098736 said well I'm engaging if the topic is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00342-00098737-00098916 for me if it's interesting for me I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00343-00098917-00099180 think one of the tips is to have very
GfaE9FxcPrA-00344-00099181-00099414 clear topic and very clearly to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00345-00099415-00099684 communicate what is the course about if
GfaE9FxcPrA-00346-00099685-00099900 people come there and it's something
GfaE9FxcPrA-00347-00099901-00100128 different than they expected they are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00348-00100129-00100307 competent they don't engage yeah
GfaE9FxcPrA-00349-00100308-00100527 another thing you touched upon already
GfaE9FxcPrA-00350-00100528-00101003 is design and quality of the content and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00351-00101004-00101448 very often actually half of the whole
GfaE9FxcPrA-00352-00101449-00101700 course budget or sometimes more goes on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00353-00101701-00101868 the design production and video
GfaE9FxcPrA-00354-00101869-00102210 production because it's expensive but
GfaE9FxcPrA-00355-00102211-00102468 actually in this way we can deliver
GfaE9FxcPrA-00356-00102469-00102686 quite the quality content that can be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00357-00102688-00102978 also be used outside of the course
GfaE9FxcPrA-00358-00102979-00103215 environment so I think having good
GfaE9FxcPrA-00359-00103216-00103572 dynamics having good quality good music
GfaE9FxcPrA-00360-00103573-00103781 good production it keeps people going
GfaE9FxcPrA-00361-00103782-00103965 and keeps people enjoying the content
GfaE9FxcPrA-00362-00103966-00104440 and willing to actually look for more
GfaE9FxcPrA-00363-00104441-00104792 now there are new tools appearing for
GfaE9FxcPrA-00364-00104793-00105072 example you watch the video and then you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00365-00105073-00105300 can stop at certain moment and then you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00366-00105301-00105501 can leave your questions or you can
GfaE9FxcPrA-00367-00105502-00105795 leave reactions also it's possible to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00368-00105796-00106361 add the video and then actually define
GfaE9FxcPrA-00369-00106363-00106569 when the video should stop and there is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00370-00106570-00106784 a question for reflection so actually
GfaE9FxcPrA-00371-00106785-00106947 when we talk about the video content
GfaE9FxcPrA-00372-00106948-00107118 there are more and more tools appearing
GfaE9FxcPrA-00373-00107119-00107364 that allow to present video and not
GfaE9FxcPrA-00374-00107365-00107919 purely us this one he is but oh to have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00375-00107920-00108081 mood for reflection and this is I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00376-00108082-00108290 very interesting very interesting how
GfaE9FxcPrA-00377-00108291-00108720 this is all developing another thing as
GfaE9FxcPrA-00378-00108721-00108903 we mentioned also meaningful tasks so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00379-00108904-00109095 actually having class that makes sense
GfaE9FxcPrA-00380-00109096-00109334 that really leads people to learn
GfaE9FxcPrA-00381-00109335-00109626 something new yeah and as people said
GfaE9FxcPrA-00382-00109627-00109821 maybe not something super challenging
GfaE9FxcPrA-00383-00109822-00110036 but still something doable that people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00384-00110038-00110277 can really do even though known people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00385-00110278-00110694 are in very diverse environments and and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00386-00110695-00110964 context you know like in MOOCs we would
GfaE9FxcPrA-00387-00110965-00111222 have someone you know just next door may
GfaE9FxcPrA-00388-00111223-00111453 be from the same country I am from but
GfaE9FxcPrA-00389-00111454-00111597 then we would have like plenty of people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00390-00111598-00111945 from the Caribbean from I don't know
GfaE9FxcPrA-00391-00111946-00112316 from from somewhere South Asia or so and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00392-00112317-00112527 so on so it's really very very global
GfaE9FxcPrA-00393-00112528-00112766 and then we need to see how to make a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00394-00112767-00113054 task that it's kind of universal and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00395-00113055-00113619 doable another aspect is to possibility
GfaE9FxcPrA-00396-00113620-00114048 to give chance to get feedback from an
GfaE9FxcPrA-00397-00114049-00114318 expert or feel other learners and those
GfaE9FxcPrA-00398-00114319-00114479 who may be tried P books you saw there
GfaE9FxcPrA-00399-00114480-00114766 is possibility like make assignment
GfaE9FxcPrA-00400-00114767-00115056 submit the assignment and then the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00401-00115057-00115308 assignment is given to some learners and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00402-00115308-00115506 then these learners can give feedback
GfaE9FxcPrA-00403-00115507-00115758 based on the guidelines so often that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00404-00115758-00115904 keeps people really interested and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00405-00115905-00116121 excited like oh what other people think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00406-00116122-00116397 about me sometimes I do it in a simple
GfaE9FxcPrA-00407-00116398-00116789 way I say point just post your work that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00408-00116790-00116877 you did
GfaE9FxcPrA-00409-00116878-00117081 and then inviting others to feedback and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00410-00117082-00117378 then is facilitator I take this role to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00411-00117379-00117560 feedback first and then other people can
GfaE9FxcPrA-00412-00117561-00117935 add being responsive very quickly to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00413-00117936-00118200 people questions if it's facilitated
GfaE9FxcPrA-00414-00118201-00118419 course then the quicker the better
GfaE9FxcPrA-00415-00118420-00118619 especially when it comes to technical
GfaE9FxcPrA-00416-00118620-00119226 the technical aspects of the course I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00417-00119227-00119427 think regular announcements we're
GfaE9FxcPrA-00418-00119428-00119547 clearly because we can see all the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00419-00119548-00119768 statistics in the course that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00420-00119769-00119984 announcements remind people that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00421-00119985-00120252 something is good happened in there and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00422-00120253-00120458 then whenever there is an announcement
GfaE9FxcPrA-00423-00120459-00120777 well we see a peak in participation so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00424-00120778-00120996 people come back to the course they do a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00425-00120997-00121206 few things and maybe again they forget
GfaE9FxcPrA-00426-00121207-00121479 that they are in this course so regular
GfaE9FxcPrA-00427-00121480-00121685 announcements and some interesting data
GfaE9FxcPrA-00428-00121686-00121934 some interesting statistics maybe some
GfaE9FxcPrA-00429-00121935-00122204 quotations it helps people to be a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00430-00122205-00122489 engage and to remember that the actually
GfaE9FxcPrA-00431-00122490-00123096 taking part in the course and another
GfaE9FxcPrA-00432-00123097-00123255 aspect was mentioned to establish
GfaE9FxcPrA-00433-00123256-00123710 patterns sometimes it may sound strange
GfaE9FxcPrA-00434-00123711-00124005 but you know people need some kind of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00435-00124006-00124283 safety net people don't want that every
GfaE9FxcPrA-00436-00124284-00124500 day they open new content and it looks
GfaE9FxcPrA-00437-00124501-00124773 different different colors different
GfaE9FxcPrA-00438-00124774-00125195 very different exercises each time so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00439-00125196-00125538 you can find quite a lot in terms of you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00440-00125539-00125710 know some literature and advice that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00441-00125711-00125925 it's good when there are certain
GfaE9FxcPrA-00442-00125926-00126198 patterns yeah so for example we would
GfaE9FxcPrA-00443-00126199-00126474 have a module and then each module would
GfaE9FxcPrA-00444-00126475-00126813 have let's say two videos a couple of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00445-00126814-00127104 exercises one discussion and the quiz at
GfaE9FxcPrA-00446-00127105-00127380 the end let's say yeah and then if the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00447-00127381-00127650 course content is somehow similar then
GfaE9FxcPrA-00448-00127651-00127902 it's good to keep some pattern what
GfaE9FxcPrA-00449-00127903-00128151 people may expect yeah it's not
GfaE9FxcPrA-00450-00128152-00128403 necessarily the same exercises but some
GfaE9FxcPrA-00451-00128404-00128652 kind of pattern is good yeah I'm talking
GfaE9FxcPrA-00452-00128653-00128877 about recognition if one module is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00453-00128878-00129342 ending the information about what badge
GfaE9FxcPrA-00454-00129343-00129576 you can get from this module it's good
GfaE9FxcPrA-00455-00129577-00129807 to have this integrated in every module
GfaE9FxcPrA-00456-00129808-00129993 yeah on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00457-00129994-00130139 they have one module with five
GfaE9FxcPrA-00458-00130140-00130427 discussions and then another module only
GfaE9FxcPrA-00459-00130428-00130799 one discussion so more seeing how we can
GfaE9FxcPrA-00460-00130800-00131141 really have as a system in your in your
GfaE9FxcPrA-00461-00131142-00131418 course and not to have totally wild and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00462-00131419-00131631 crazy modules different a lot from each
GfaE9FxcPrA-00463-00131632-00132099 other these are the few things that I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00464-00132100-00132476 came up I think reflecting reflected my
GfaE9FxcPrA-00465-00132477-00132795 my peers experiences before facilitating
GfaE9FxcPrA-00466-00132796-00133076 MOOCs and if there would be some
GfaE9FxcPrA-00467-00133077-00133398 questions feel free actually to ask them
GfaE9FxcPrA-00468-00133399-00135236 now sabrina is typing i'm wondering how
GfaE9FxcPrA-00469-00135237-00135393 many people did we lose for the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00470-00135394-00135870 singalong are they still singing I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00471-00135871-00136811 so is typing we allow the discussion
GfaE9FxcPrA-00472-00136812-00137264 mode no yes it is you can also speak
GfaE9FxcPrA-00473-00137265-00137849 people I mean I'm not sure really if you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00474-00137850-00138084 can reply because I think it changes
GfaE9FxcPrA-00475-00138085-00138290 from case to case but I'm also
GfaE9FxcPrA-00476-00138291-00138531 considering how much time investment I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00477-00138532-00138812 can expect from a certain participant
GfaE9FxcPrA-00478-00138813-00139112 over a certain time because I guess it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00479-00139113-00139391 will also influence many of my decisions
GfaE9FxcPrA-00480-00139392-00139763 I guess there's a bit of common sense
GfaE9FxcPrA-00481-00139764-00140015 there I don't know a few hours per week
GfaE9FxcPrA-00482-00140016-00140375 and that's more than that but I wonder
GfaE9FxcPrA-00483-00140376-00140714 if you have some insight to that yeah I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00484-00140715-00140957 think from last five editions of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00485-00140958-00141069 erasmus+
GfaE9FxcPrA-00486-00141070-00141476 MOOC and where we collected information
GfaE9FxcPrA-00487-00141477-00141857 from like more than 6,000 people I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00488-00141858-00142364 the most common answers that people okay
GfaE9FxcPrA-00489-00142365-00142679 to dedicate between two and four hours a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00490-00142680-00143058 week which means that people maybe would
GfaE9FxcPrA-00491-00143059-00143236 do half an hour every day or
GfaE9FxcPrA-00492-00143237-00143625 do two hours somewhere Friday evening
GfaE9FxcPrA-00493-00143626-00143866 that's usually what is okay for people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00494-00143867-00144115 and if learning requires more than that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00495-00144116-00144328 it's kind of difficult because people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00496-00144329-00144586 usually take online courses as extra on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00497-00144587-00146227 top of what they do already okay if no
GfaE9FxcPrA-00498-00146228-00146718 more questions I think we can yeah
GfaE9FxcPrA-00499-00146719-00147460 document or something if you would be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00500-00147461-00148266 able to share any resources or wings or
GfaE9FxcPrA-00501-00148267-00148738 yeah yeah I probably checked with the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00502-00148739-00148933 atomic and McHale what is the space that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00503-00148934-00149278 you have there on the course so there is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00504-00149279-00149443 some space on the different tools that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00505-00149444-00150181 are possible to integrate maybe there so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00506-00150182-00150964 we can share yeah good also you know
GfaE9FxcPrA-00507-00150965-00151201 very much depends on the on platforms
GfaE9FxcPrA-00508-00151202-00151396 you know there are some tools that work
GfaE9FxcPrA-00509-00151397-00151639 for one platform or the tools that work
GfaE9FxcPrA-00510-00151640-00151891 for the other platform so it's it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00511-00151892-00152131 depends how how well they can be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00512-00152132-00152353 integrated in different platforms as
GfaE9FxcPrA-00513-00152354-00152941 well good
GfaE9FxcPrA-00514-00152942-00153211 so shall I share a few things about the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00515-00153212-00153404 hah wait Misha
GfaE9FxcPrA-00516-00153405-00153733 but maybe one one idea because I like
GfaE9FxcPrA-00517-00153734-00154036 like this point do not over engage
GfaE9FxcPrA-00518-00154037-00154624 people and and I think I'm also as a as
GfaE9FxcPrA-00519-00154625-00154987 a facilitator I'm I'm a bit trapped
GfaE9FxcPrA-00520-00154988-00155203 because I'm excited about my own course
GfaE9FxcPrA-00521-00155204-00155712 and I want to do a lot and and I have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00522-00155713-00156135 come down to another but maybe something
GfaE9FxcPrA-00523-00156136-00156499 something also I would maybe recommend
GfaE9FxcPrA-00524-00156500-00156571 is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00525-00156572-00156871 to give rather maybe a small task and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00526-00156872-00157128 but then maybe I don't know a follow-up
GfaE9FxcPrA-00527-00157129-00157372 or something so for those who would like
GfaE9FxcPrA-00528-00157373-00157675 to invest a little bit more or go deeper
GfaE9FxcPrA-00529-00157676-00157915 you can do still this and this
GfaE9FxcPrA-00530-00157916-00158176 yeah but divided a little bit is kind of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00531-00158177-00158512 okay some small and if if they are into
GfaE9FxcPrA-00532-00158513-00158827 it and they're excited thing can go more
GfaE9FxcPrA-00533-00158828-00159151 but if they say oh no now my limit is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00534-00159152-00159427 reached so I stayed with this but
GfaE9FxcPrA-00535-00159428-00159789 they're happy to have realized also the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00536-00159790-00160207 small small task yeah I think this is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00537-00160208-00160411 also an example of this a little bit of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00538-00160412-00160582 a paste and self-paced yeah then you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00539-00160583-00160738 also leave freedom for people than to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00540-00160739-00160900 dive deeper and so on but there are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00541-00160901-00161115 still things that they need to as part
GfaE9FxcPrA-00542-00161116-00161584 of the course okay I think I will just
GfaE9FxcPrA-00543-00161585-00161715 share a few things also about the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00544-00161716-00161887 blended a perspective of the some of the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00545-00161888-00162049 things overlap of course it's still the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00546-00162050-00162325 online environment and I think just to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00547-00162326-00162688 maybe start by saying that I really want
GfaE9FxcPrA-00548-00162689-00162808 to highlight this that we need to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00549-00162809-00163024 understand also how we assess the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00550-00163025-00163276 engagement of people yeah and then we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00551-00163277-00163408 also had discussion about it the other
GfaE9FxcPrA-00552-00163409-00163660 day and it's a the thing is that online
GfaE9FxcPrA-00553-00163661-00163846 you really see when the person logs in
GfaE9FxcPrA-00554-00163847-00164062 you really see when the person leaves or
GfaE9FxcPrA-00555-00164063-00164239 write something in a discussion forum
GfaE9FxcPrA-00556-00164240-00164443 whereas in the residential room we don't
GfaE9FxcPrA-00557-00164444-00164662 do this assessments so strictly yeah so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00558-00164663-00164863 I think we tend to panic online if
GfaE9FxcPrA-00559-00164864-00164989 people didn't do this or didn't
GfaE9FxcPrA-00560-00164990-00165235 contribute like this yeah but sometimes
GfaE9FxcPrA-00561-00165236-00165451 it's okay and then also to have in mind
GfaE9FxcPrA-00562-00165452-00165591 these different types of learners that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00563-00165592-00165751 we have and also some people that simply
GfaE9FxcPrA-00564-00165752-00165915 would take something and not something
GfaE9FxcPrA-00565-00165916-00166123 else yeah so I think it's one thing is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00566-00166124-00166336 not to overdo with engagement but I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00567-00166337-00166489 think another thing is also not to panic
GfaE9FxcPrA-00568-00166490-00166672 when we feel that there is no engagement
GfaE9FxcPrA-00569-00166673-00166831 that said of course if you know if
GfaE9FxcPrA-00570-00166832-00167044 two-thirds of your participants I'm not
GfaE9FxcPrA-00571-00167045-00167311 appearing then it might be time to think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00572-00167312-00167490 about these things yeah but I think also
GfaE9FxcPrA-00573-00167491-00167799 to to see how we assess these things and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00574-00167800-00168054 yeah I think one thing just want to echo
GfaE9FxcPrA-00575-00168055-00168214 I think Limon has already said is this
GfaE9FxcPrA-00576-00168215-00168394 thing about the design and setting up
GfaE9FxcPrA-00577-00168395-00168550 the things to be as easy for
GfaE9FxcPrA-00578-00168551-00168768 participants and learners as possible
GfaE9FxcPrA-00579-00168769-00169104 and and I think that's super important
GfaE9FxcPrA-00580-00169105-00169227 yeah if people would need to click
GfaE9FxcPrA-00581-00169228-00169389 around every time they want to do
GfaE9FxcPrA-00582-00169390-00169585 something we would lose them very easily
GfaE9FxcPrA-00583-00169586-00169786 so if they find it challenging if they
GfaE9FxcPrA-00584-00169787-00169938 find it difficult and many of you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00585-00169939-00170139 would simply just not do it yeah because
GfaE9FxcPrA-00586-00170140-00170328 it's not inviting it's not engaging yeah
GfaE9FxcPrA-00587-00170329-00170544 so when we're setting up activities I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00588-00170545-00170685 think it's very important to see that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00589-00170686-00170850 they don't need to click around 1
GfaE9FxcPrA-00590-00170851-00171048 million times and then and maybe then
GfaE9FxcPrA-00591-00171049-00171291 this familiarity pattern helps as well
GfaE9FxcPrA-00592-00171292-00171456 so I think we mentioned this in the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00593-00171457-00171764 previous session I think or even before
GfaE9FxcPrA-00594-00171765-00172016 start with a page and then go to the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00595-00172017-00172316 book yeah if you use hop and so people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00596-00172317-00172466 get used to one thing and maybe use it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00597-00172467-00172668 several times and then you try out with
GfaE9FxcPrA-00598-00172669-00172875 something more complex because that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00599-00172876-00173013 would be easier for them easier to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00600-00173014-00173301 engage I think with blended courses a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00601-00173302-00173481 little bit is the same with MOOCs or the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00602-00173482-00173703 rather smaller courses is to be present
GfaE9FxcPrA-00603-00173704-00174003 because I think I also noticed with
GfaE9FxcPrA-00604-00174004-00174140 myself and the colleagues we do
GfaE9FxcPrA-00605-00174141-00174333 something and we give tasks to people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00606-00174334-00174528 and then we disappear yeah so for
GfaE9FxcPrA-00607-00174529-00174693 example you ask a question or you ask
GfaE9FxcPrA-00608-00174694-00174897 people to do a little task I introduce
GfaE9FxcPrA-00609-00174898-00175083 themselves and then we ourselves don't
GfaE9FxcPrA-00610-00175084-00175326 do it so I think a little bit like we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00611-00175327-00175539 participate in welcome evening you know
GfaE9FxcPrA-00612-00175540-00175719 and in the group building not group
GfaE9FxcPrA-00613-00175720-00175872 building but getting to know activities
GfaE9FxcPrA-00614-00175873-00176040 I think it's also nice that we are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00615-00176041-00176184 present at the beginning as well so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00616-00176185-00176334 people see us and they understand that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00617-00176335-00176556 we are there otherwise they might feel
GfaE9FxcPrA-00618-00176557-00176793 that they are left alone so I think it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00619-00176794-00177053 recommended to make your pro if you ask
GfaE9FxcPrA-00620-00177054-00177210 them to make their profile and answer
GfaE9FxcPrA-00621-00177211-00177363 some questions I think it's nice if you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00622-00177364-00177606 also make our own profile and answer the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00623-00177607-00177797 same questions so people know who we are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00624-00177798-00178308 the trust does not come I think it's not
GfaE9FxcPrA-00625-00178309-00178713 given you I think what is important and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00626-00178714-00178869 I think some people said in the quality
GfaE9FxcPrA-00627-00178870-00179088 is that how to write instructions or in
GfaE9FxcPrA-00628-00179089-00179325 general how to write of course we could
GfaE9FxcPrA-00629-00179326-00179463 have a separate course on this but I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00630-00179464-00179636 think it's very important to know that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00631-00179637-00180090 when we give instructions online there
GfaE9FxcPrA-00632-00180091-00180324 is not not so much chance to clarify
GfaE9FxcPrA-00633-00180325-00180561 yeah and not many people would send a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00634-00180562-00180702 message and say what exactly did you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00635-00180703-00180965 mean here yeah so if it's not clear ok
GfaE9FxcPrA-00636-00180966-00181086 if there is a little thing they might
GfaE9FxcPrA-00637-00181087-00181233 come back but if it's not clear at the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00638-00181234-00181403 beginning you would again probably lose
GfaE9FxcPrA-00639-00181404-00181665 people so I noticed that when I do
GfaE9FxcPrA-00640-00181666-00181872 courses regardless of whether it's a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00641-00181873-00182139 MOOC or or a smaller or a blended I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00642-00182140-00182385 spend so much time reading and reading
GfaE9FxcPrA-00643-00182386-00182526 whether my instructions are clear
GfaE9FxcPrA-00644-00182527-00182748 whether each point is well covered and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00645-00182749-00182988 so on so people don't get lost so think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00646-00182989-00183177 about this yeah whereas in the plenary
GfaE9FxcPrA-00647-00183178-00183360 they will easily ask you eh
GfaE9FxcPrA-00648-00183361-00183594 you know what did you mean by this in
GfaE9FxcPrA-00649-00183595-00183756 the online instructions probably people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00650-00183757-00184187 will not ask the question there it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00651-00184188-00184460 also about the questions I think it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00652-00184461-00184697 also to you know like as facilitators of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00653-00184698-00184818 learning we know that it's super
GfaE9FxcPrA-00654-00184819-00184983 important to ask the right questions and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00655-00184984-00185244 that is even more so important in the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00656-00185245-00185414 online again there is no chance for
GfaE9FxcPrA-00657-00185415-00185610 clarifying so really a clear question
GfaE9FxcPrA-00658-00185611-00185871 not ten questions in one which maybe
GfaE9FxcPrA-00659-00185872-00186101 some of us tend to do yeah so if it's a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00660-00186102-00186266 question that it's single question and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00661-00186267-00186413 then there is an answer yeah not about
GfaE9FxcPrA-00662-00186414-00186698 somehow there and also not to overdo
GfaE9FxcPrA-00663-00186699-00186878 with questions I think maybe that's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00664-00186879-00187037 something that I think it's also basic
GfaE9FxcPrA-00665-00187038-00187334 basic how to say a tip for facilitation
GfaE9FxcPrA-00666-00187335-00187598 in general it's not you know ask people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00667-00187599-00187760 five questions and they're like okay and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00668-00187761-00187901 and then people don't know what to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00669-00187902-00187934 answer
GfaE9FxcPrA-00670-00187935-00188099 yeah but really try to be carefully
GfaE9FxcPrA-00671-00188100-00188271 choosing your questions and then really
GfaE9FxcPrA-00672-00188272-00188498 to to get the answers that you you want
GfaE9FxcPrA-00673-00188499-00189062 I think yeah what else did I did I have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00674-00189063-00189263 had a few things I think one another
GfaE9FxcPrA-00675-00189264-00189560 thing is about discussions even if it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00676-00189561-00189788 a larger course try to be present in the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00677-00189789-00190034 discussions even if you feel it and I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00678-00190035-00190184 think there are some things there but to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00679-00190185-00190490 stimulate people to respond it's nice to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00680-00190491-00190656 have facilitators present I think what I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00681-00190657-00190925 noticed is that what people would do
GfaE9FxcPrA-00682-00190926-00191094 they see it as a task so if you have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00683-00191095-00191295 something people will come they will put
GfaE9FxcPrA-00684-00191296-00191552 their reply and that's it yeah they were
GfaE9FxcPrA-00685-00191553-00191789 probably not kind of reply on reply and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00686-00191790-00191978 track but if we as facilitators maybe
GfaE9FxcPrA-00687-00191979-00192179 make this incentive and we reply and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00688-00192180-00192449 then you even invite people to clarify
GfaE9FxcPrA-00689-00192450-00192653 you know or invite others to join in it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00690-00192654-00192846 doesn't always work still many people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00691-00192847-00193068 will not come back but it will work it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00692-00193069-00193332 will work for some yeah are you still
GfaE9FxcPrA-00693-00193333-00193613 with me it's really weird not to have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00694-00193614-00193886 this okay some people typing very good I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00695-00193887-00194015 only have a few more things and then we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00696-00194016-00194172 will check if there if there are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00697-00194173-00194702 questions yeah and I think one thing
GfaE9FxcPrA-00698-00194703-00195110 it's that I think to be to try to think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00699-00195111-00195386 of different stimuli because like in
GfaE9FxcPrA-00700-00195387-00195575 face-to-face not everyone is a reader
GfaE9FxcPrA-00701-00195576-00195756 and not everyone likes to watch videos
GfaE9FxcPrA-00702-00195757-00196040 not everyone likes to discuss to try to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00703-00196041-00196241 combine but keeping in mind what Lyman
GfaE9FxcPrA-00704-00196242-00196391 is was saying not to have 20 different
GfaE9FxcPrA-00705-00196392-00196598 activities in one unit you know here is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00706-00196599-00196731 a bit of video and here is a bit of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00707-00196732-00196884 and here is a discussion and then here
GfaE9FxcPrA-00708-00196885-00197073 is a task for you and so on try to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00709-00197074-00197379 diversify but also not not overdo it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00710-00197380-00197583 I think but it's again another one of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00711-00197584-00197802 the I think of the non-formal education
GfaE9FxcPrA-00712-00197803-00197850 as well
GfaE9FxcPrA-00713-00197851-00198075 yeah because although it's online
GfaE9FxcPrA-00714-00198076-00198321 learning again still not everyone learns
GfaE9FxcPrA-00715-00198322-00198516 in the same way yeah so it's good to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00716-00198517-00198681 maybe for some people for example
GfaE9FxcPrA-00717-00198682-00198975 something that I was not doing was to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00718-00198976-00199125 include resources for people to read
GfaE9FxcPrA-00719-00199126-00199242 because I was thinking if there is a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00720-00199243-00199392 video if there was a bit of instruction
GfaE9FxcPrA-00721-00199393-00199587 but people like to dig so it's it's very
GfaE9FxcPrA-00722-00199588-00199821 nice to actually give resources to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00723-00199822-00200010 people so they would dig more and get
GfaE9FxcPrA-00724-00200011-00200628 more more interested and maybe one last
GfaE9FxcPrA-00725-00200629-00200865 point is or two less points actually one
GfaE9FxcPrA-00726-00200866-00201111 thing is about the groups it's nice to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00727-00201112-00201363 use groups Moodle allows it but of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00728-00201364-00201507 course the people need to be prepared
GfaE9FxcPrA-00729-00201508-00201660 for the groups and so you cannot just
GfaE9FxcPrA-00730-00201661-00201801 start your course and send people into
GfaE9FxcPrA-00731-00201802-00201918 groups because they would find it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00732-00201919-00202140 awkward it probably will not engage so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00733-00202141-00202281 they also need to get to know each other
GfaE9FxcPrA-00734-00202282-00202410 a little bit and maybe have some
GfaE9FxcPrA-00735-00202411-00202647 synchronous activity like a webinar or
GfaE9FxcPrA-00736-00202648-00202785 something where they see each other and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00737-00202786-00203109 then they're able to to do the the group
GfaE9FxcPrA-00738-00203110-00203370 together yeah and then what I found also
GfaE9FxcPrA-00739-00203371-00203595 but it also takes time to warm up so if
GfaE9FxcPrA-00740-00203596-00203760 you have a longer course is the tasks
GfaE9FxcPrA-00741-00203761-00203925 yam so if it's something that people can
GfaE9FxcPrA-00742-00203926-00204174 do with with the community or something
GfaE9FxcPrA-00743-00204175-00204510 they can include or post later or I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00744-00204511-00204693 wanted to share with you one task that I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00745-00204694-00204869 had as a learner which is when we were
GfaE9FxcPrA-00746-00204871-00205206 given a footage it was about need
GfaE9FxcPrA-00747-00205207-00205401 different narratives and the biases on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00748-00205402-00205554 given different footage where people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00749-00205555-00205716 were asked to make a video of five
GfaE9FxcPrA-00750-00205717-00205869 minutes based on this different footage
GfaE9FxcPrA-00751-00205869-00206013 and then we shared with other people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00752-00206014-00206223 yeah so these kind of tasks when you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00753-00206223-00206385 need to do something but still you share
GfaE9FxcPrA-00754-00206386-00206498 with others and they see your
GfaE9FxcPrA-00755-00206500-00206690 perspective are often working quite well
GfaE9FxcPrA-00756-00206691-00206958 online because my feeling is that what
GfaE9FxcPrA-00757-00206959-00207198 people appreciate is when they see a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00758-00207198-00207330 little bit of what people are bringing
GfaE9FxcPrA-00759-00207331-00207501 with them from their local community
GfaE9FxcPrA-00760-00207502-00207633 from their organisation from their
GfaE9FxcPrA-00761-00207634-00207801 practice I think sharing practice is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00762-00207802-00208101 often quite quite nice and engaged yeah
GfaE9FxcPrA-00763-00208102-00208277 so these are just some of the things
GfaE9FxcPrA-00764-00208278-00208539 that I had in mind it's good that some
GfaE9FxcPrA-00765-00208540-00208788 people are alive Markus is sharing so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00766-00208789-00209154 now if you have any questions or any
GfaE9FxcPrA-00767-00209155-00209334 other things that you would like to know
GfaE9FxcPrA-00768-00209335-00209589 about engaging learners we have a few
GfaE9FxcPrA-00769-00209590-00211605 more minutes maybe or
GfaE9FxcPrA-00770-00211606-00213492 no questions there was topic of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00771-00213494-00213877 recognition added to this session so I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00772-00213878-00214117 wonder we should still just share a few
GfaE9FxcPrA-00773-00214117-00214785 things here mm-hmm yeah yeah I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00774-00214786-00215034 Mike is still possible yeah yeah yeah
GfaE9FxcPrA-00775-00215035-00215287 probably yeah exactly
GfaE9FxcPrA-00776-00215288-00215512 thank you so much no I totally agree
GfaE9FxcPrA-00777-00215513-00215752 with all the things you said and it's a
GfaE9FxcPrA-00778-00215753-00215973 nice confirmation of the principles of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00779-00215975-00216283 follow up our course and as that's just
GfaE9FxcPrA-00780-00216284-00216589 something to add in case the course is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00781-00216590-00216819 complex and has several modules in case
GfaE9FxcPrA-00782-00216821-00217087 you're several people developing it what
GfaE9FxcPrA-00783-00217088-00217441 we needed in our team is to first agree
GfaE9FxcPrA-00784-00217442-00217669 on some basic guidelines for instance
GfaE9FxcPrA-00785-00217669-00217906 how we address learners they had the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00786-00217907-00218071 style how we addressed them to have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00787-00218071-00218259 everything appeared afterwards the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00788-00218260-00218641 terminology the length of texts so we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00789-00218642-00218823 agreed on certain guidelines and then we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00790-00218825-00219076 made a template design together one
GfaE9FxcPrA-00791-00219077-00219328 module that would serve as a template so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00792-00219329-00219598 yeah this looks good then people could
GfaE9FxcPrA-00793-00219598-00219769 develop their different modules and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00794-00219769-00220015 different topics and still there was one
GfaE9FxcPrA-00795-00220016-00220213 person in charge of the words to make
GfaE9FxcPrA-00796-00220214-00220456 sure everything is coherent in terms of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00797-00220457-00220705 style in terms of effort in terms of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00798-00220706-00221083 engagement etc so just as a way to not
GfaE9FxcPrA-00799-00221084-00221353 to lose time when you produce an online
GfaE9FxcPrA-00800-00221354-00221846 course inity thank you for adding Marcus
GfaE9FxcPrA-00801-00221848-00222154 very much agree on that and that is why
GfaE9FxcPrA-00802-00222155-00222459 often we at first have most of the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00803-00222460-00222664 things like in the Google document so we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00804-00222665-00222867 can easily see all the content in one
GfaE9FxcPrA-00805-00222869-00223146 place and then check the style and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00806-00223148-00223289 everything and then
GfaE9FxcPrA-00807-00223290-00223571 moves that content to the course
GfaE9FxcPrA-00808-00223573-00223989 environment and and I agreed this even
GfaE9FxcPrA-00809-00223990-00224232 small details like how do we approach
GfaE9FxcPrA-00810-00224233-00224562 people how much text we write it's it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00811-00224563-00224691 good to double-check that because
GfaE9FxcPrA-00812-00224692-00224880 everyone have their own style of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00813-00224881-00225258 expressing themselves and and usually it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00814-00225259-00225444 comes just by trying and seeing how
GfaE9FxcPrA-00815-00225444-00225900 different or how similar it is and then
GfaE9FxcPrA-00816-00225901-00226142 agreeing on kind of basic principle also
GfaE9FxcPrA-00817-00226144-00226314 announcements its announcement it really
GfaE9FxcPrA-00818-00226315-00226554 huge tags or is it more visual is it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00819-00226555-00226815 some pictures I know some some
GfaE9FxcPrA-00820-00226816-00227013 facilitators do video announcements so
GfaE9FxcPrA-00821-00227014-00227166 they filmed themselves somewhere in the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00822-00227167-00227478 field and they talked rather than write
GfaE9FxcPrA-00823-00227479-00227913 long text so it's also something to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00824-00227914-00228975 agree in the team so I don't know if
GfaE9FxcPrA-00825-00228976-00229346 there is still some time to a few things
GfaE9FxcPrA-00826-00229348-00230037 on recognition maybe one comment on
GfaE9FxcPrA-00827-00230038-00230340 readability so if you look for example
GfaE9FxcPrA-00828-00230341-00230766 the different texts in Internet so I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00829-00230767-00230982 think you will get a feeling
GfaE9FxcPrA-00830-00230983-00231183 what is nice read and what is difficult
GfaE9FxcPrA-00831-00231184-00231426 to read so if we have a paper which is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00832-00231427-00231728 published for I don't know a kind of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00833-00231729-00232014 scientific database you have a lot of
GfaE9FxcPrA-00834-00232015-00232404 text no illustrations and it's a huge
GfaE9FxcPrA-00835-00232405-00232680 paragraphs and long sentences but if you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00836-00232681-00232959 go for blog posts for examples like like
GfaE9FxcPrA-00837-00232960-00233273 bloggers they write totally differently
GfaE9FxcPrA-00838-00233275-00233492 yeah they have really kind of short
GfaE9FxcPrA-00839-00233494-00233819 sentences three four sentences max then
GfaE9FxcPrA-00840-00233821-00234087 there is a paragraph and then there is
GfaE9FxcPrA-00841-00234088-00234317 coming the next four yeah so and and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00842-00234319-00234492 some illustrations then then in between
GfaE9FxcPrA-00843-00234492-00234792 so it's just kind of get maybe a feeling
GfaE9FxcPrA-00844-00234792-00235101 what is for you also easy to read in
GfaE9FxcPrA-00845-00235102-00235383 Internet and then also in that way try
GfaE9FxcPrA-00846-00235384-00235671 to use it as a kind of a template which
GfaE9FxcPrA-00847-00235671-00236154 you have for for your own text if you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00848-00236155-00236701 want to deliver some content
GfaE9FxcPrA-00849-00236702-00237080 yeah and if you if you search if you if
GfaE9FxcPrA-00850-00237081-00237293 you google about readability you will
GfaE9FxcPrA-00851-00237294-00237527 you will find a lot of different advices
GfaE9FxcPrA-00852-00237528-00237910 out there without increase readability
GfaE9FxcPrA-00853-00237911-00238241 in terms of the length of sentences and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00854-00238242-00238583 now I have tools like grammerly where
GfaE9FxcPrA-00855-00238584-00238871 you actually put your text in there and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00856-00238872-00239174 grammar Lee is analyzing and gives you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00857-00239175-00239555 score of readability and it also gives
GfaE9FxcPrA-00858-00239556-00239906 you analysis of how old people should be
GfaE9FxcPrA-00859-00239907-00240068 and what should be their English level
GfaE9FxcPrA-00860-00240069-00240339 in order to understand your text very
GfaE9FxcPrA-00861-00240340-00240581 well so that helps me a lot just to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00862-00240582-00240731 double-check and actually it says
GfaE9FxcPrA-00863-00240732-00240966 whether the sentences are not too long
GfaE9FxcPrA-00864-00240967-00241342 what I am not using to complicated words
GfaE9FxcPrA-00865-00241343-00241934 that that's really helpful tool it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00866-00241935-00242112 also about the fonts not to make phones
GfaE9FxcPrA-00867-00242113-00242477 too small not to make very light grey
GfaE9FxcPrA-00868-00242478-00242732 letters on on the gray background
GfaE9FxcPrA-00869-00242733-00242921 because some people may have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00870-00242922-00243312 difficulties of their bad contrast which
GfaE9FxcPrA-00871-00243313-00243623 is just like putting people off from
GfaE9FxcPrA-00872-00243624-00244580 reading anything yeah okay so maybe I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00873-00244581-00244745 want us a few sentences and think we are
GfaE9FxcPrA-00874-00244746-00244949 already over time so something about
GfaE9FxcPrA-00875-00244950-00245182 recognition and then we wrap up slowly
GfaE9FxcPrA-00876-00245183-00245462 yeah so quickly
GfaE9FxcPrA-00877-00245463-00245846 yeah just few things on recognition I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00878-00245847-00246063 believe every team is making their own
GfaE9FxcPrA-00879-00246064-00246482 choices when it comes to course is that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00880-00246483-00246884 we're so far under erasmus+ programme we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00881-00246885-00247145 always want to issue youth pass as kind
GfaE9FxcPrA-00882-00247146-00247325 of official tool for recognizing
GfaE9FxcPrA-00883-00247326-00247772 learning in this program so then usually
GfaE9FxcPrA-00884-00247773-00248057 we put youth process recognition tool
GfaE9FxcPrA-00885-00248058-00248419 and then you can set up when it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00886-00248420-00248555 unlocked
GfaE9FxcPrA-00887-00248556-00248807 so for example you can put criteria that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00888-00248808-00249194 if people completed certain certain
GfaE9FxcPrA-00889-00249195-00249455 session certain modules then they have
GfaE9FxcPrA-00890-00249456-00249650 they have access to the Youth past
GfaE9FxcPrA-00891-00249651-00249884 and then we add a survey where people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00892-00249885-00250253 add their name surname email address and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00893-00250254-00250715 then we all often also add some
GfaE9FxcPrA-00894-00250716-00250969 questions just to get feedback from
GfaE9FxcPrA-00895-00250971-00251219 participants so this allows us to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00896-00251219-00251602 collect data and then generate youthpass
GfaE9FxcPrA-00897-00251603-00251831 unfortunately still people cannot claim
GfaE9FxcPrA-00898-00251832-00252029 youthpass themselves so it's really like
GfaE9FxcPrA-00899-00252030-00252244 you need to do everything manually and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00900-00252246-00252619 then send each youthpass by email to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00901-00252621-00252913 each participant hopefully these these
GfaE9FxcPrA-00902-00252914-00253144 functions will change somewhere in the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00903-00253146-00253573 future but then often we use open badges
GfaE9FxcPrA-00904-00253575-00253862 in online courses because then you can
GfaE9FxcPrA-00905-00253863-00254321 easily set up open badge for each module
GfaE9FxcPrA-00906-00254321-00254678 and then you set up the criteria what
GfaE9FxcPrA-00907-00254679-00254912 people need to do in order to get the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00908-00254913-00255185 open badge and it's issued often
GfaE9FxcPrA-00909-00255186-00255554 automatically if they complete or give
GfaE9FxcPrA-00910-00255555-00255827 you all this all the sessions within one
GfaE9FxcPrA-00911-00255828-00256277 module so you can set up your own text
GfaE9FxcPrA-00912-00256278-00256583 you can set up the criteria and then you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00913-00256584-00256790 can also see the report of how many
GfaE9FxcPrA-00914-00256791-00257384 people got badges and then we often add
GfaE9FxcPrA-00915-00257385-00257623 a special section for people to
GfaE9FxcPrA-00916-00257625-00258206 understand what open badges are and the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00917-00258207-00258512 share badges elsewhere and how does that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00918-00258513-00258707 work in the course environment so we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00919-00258708-00258926 often also combine both you get badge
GfaE9FxcPrA-00920-00258927-00259130 for every module and then you get
GfaE9FxcPrA-00921-00259131-00259331 youthpass based on the criteria that
GfaE9FxcPrA-00922-00259332-00259709 your team is deciding and now I think
GfaE9FxcPrA-00923-00259710-00259967 for one course we just decided like okay
GfaE9FxcPrA-00924-00259967-00260183 because it's a self-paced course we
GfaE9FxcPrA-00925-00260184-00260384 don't want to limit people we say
GfaE9FxcPrA-00926-00260385-00260621 whatever people finished whatever people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00927-00260621-00260894 completed we just write it down in the
GfaE9FxcPrA-00928-00260894-00261128 short survey what modules did they
GfaE9FxcPrA-00929-00261129-00261419 complete and they have access to us even
GfaE9FxcPrA-00930-00261419-00261659 if they did just one module because
GfaE9FxcPrA-00931-00261660-00261782 farce is also about just giving
GfaE9FxcPrA-00932-00261783-00262136 recognition to this non-formal learning
GfaE9FxcPrA-00933-00262137-00262487 online and not to limit too much and not
GfaE9FxcPrA-00934-00262488-00262730 to put too many conditions to recognize
GfaE9FxcPrA-00935-00262731-00262957 learning because people just did one
GfaE9FxcPrA-00936-00262958-00263218 maybe it's okay maybe it's what they
GfaE9FxcPrA-00937-00263219-00263476 needed and it's okay also to give
GfaE9FxcPrA-00938-00263477-00263791 recognition for that these are my few
GfaE9FxcPrA-00939-00263792-00264031 thoughts and I already see that people
GfaE9FxcPrA-00940-00264032-00264196 need to leave so I think it's fair
GfaE9FxcPrA-00941-00264197-00264504 enough not to prolong too much and and
GfaE9FxcPrA-00942-00264505-00265165 finalize that session yeah thank you I
GfaE9FxcPrA-00943-00265166-00265447 think this is what we had for today it's
GfaE9FxcPrA-00944-00265448-00265687 recorded for example Samy couldn't join
GfaE9FxcPrA-00945-00265688-00265909 so for those who would want to watch it
GfaE9FxcPrA-00946-00265910-00266221 afterwards it would be there so thank
GfaE9FxcPrA-00947-00266222-00266509 you for being us with us and thank you
GfaE9FxcPrA-00948-00266510-00266629 for staying at home that's also
GfaE9FxcPrA-00949-00266630-00266968 important these days and I think Tomic
GfaE9FxcPrA-00950-00266969-00267253 would like to say some
GgiXNkhRau4-00000-00002840-00005622 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00001-00005623-00006559 is
GgiXNkhRau4-00002-00006559-00008646 [Music]
GgiXNkhRau4-00003-00008647-00009631 you will have the first 30 minutes
GgiXNkhRau4-00004-00009632-00009863 thank you so much for having me and for
GgiXNkhRau4-00005-00009864-00010087 the invitation i'm very happy to be here
GgiXNkhRau4-00006-00010088-00010406 and so i will share my screen in a
GgiXNkhRau4-00007-00010407-00010527 moment
GgiXNkhRau4-00008-00010528-00010727 let me just see
GgiXNkhRau4-00009-00010728-00010888 i had it here a second ago
GgiXNkhRau4-00010-00010889-00011055 [Music]
GgiXNkhRau4-00011-00011056-00011527 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00012-00011528-00011655 there we go
GgiXNkhRau4-00013-00011656-00011742 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00014-00011743-00011870 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00015-00011871-00012078 as um
GgiXNkhRau4-00016-00012079-00012342 i said in the introduction i'm heterodox
GgiXNkhRau4-00017-00012343-00012463 economist so i'm going to talk about
GgiXNkhRau4-00018-00012464-00012631 economics but from a alternative
GgiXNkhRau4-00019-00012632-00012807 perspective from a heterodox perspective
GgiXNkhRau4-00020-00012808-00013102 and specifically um on dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00021-00013103-00013351 which i would say is a strand of
GgiXNkhRau4-00022-00013352-00013558 petrodox economics
GgiXNkhRau4-00023-00013559-00013655 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00024-00013656-00013871 and i put as a title here outdated or or
GgiXNkhRau4-00025-00013872-00014094 just out of fashion because very often
GgiXNkhRau4-00026-00014095-00014279 at least a few years ago i think i think
GgiXNkhRau4-00027-00014280-00014407 things are changing a little bit now but
GgiXNkhRau4-00028-00014408-00014566 a few years ago whenever you mentioned
GgiXNkhRau4-00029-00014568-00014758 dependency theory people often thought
GgiXNkhRau4-00030-00014759-00014919 that it was something that was
GgiXNkhRau4-00031-00014919-00015158 uh theories from the 60s from the 70s
GgiXNkhRau4-00032-00015159-00015375 that are not relevant at all anymore so
GgiXNkhRau4-00033-00015376-00015599 i'm going to make the case in these next
GgiXNkhRau4-00034-00015600-00015799 30 minutes that actually there are some
GgiXNkhRau4-00035-00015800-00015983 useful things to learn from dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00036-00015984-00016103 theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00037-00016104-00016294 and that actually those theories are
GgiXNkhRau4-00038-00016295-00016527 quite helpful and quite useful as
GgiXNkhRau4-00039-00016528-00016679 heterodox economic theories to
GgiXNkhRau4-00040-00016680-00016830 understand
GgiXNkhRau4-00041-00016831-00017055 the world especially from the periphery
GgiXNkhRau4-00042-00017056-00017343 and and global inequalities uh in the
GgiXNkhRau4-00043-00017344-00017463 world
GgiXNkhRau4-00044-00017464-00017535 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00045-00017536-00017767 i'll just talk uh since
GgiXNkhRau4-00046-00017768-00017919 maybe for some of you it's not really
GgiXNkhRau4-00047-00017920-00018063 familiar i'll introduce heterodox
GgiXNkhRau4-00048-00018064-00018207 economics and dependency theory first
GgiXNkhRau4-00049-00018208-00018335 and then
GgiXNkhRau4-00050-00018336-00018479 go into why
GgiXNkhRau4-00051-00018480-00018647 it kind of fell out of fashion and what
GgiXNkhRau4-00052-00018648-00018855 some theories about that are
GgiXNkhRau4-00053-00018856-00019094 and then talk about dependency theory as
GgiXNkhRau4-00054-00019095-00019303 a research program and
GgiXNkhRau4-00055-00019304-00019486 make the case for why it's not outdated
GgiXNkhRau4-00056-00019487-00019663 by also talking about some how we can
GgiXNkhRau4-00057-00019664-00019847 look at some empirical cases
GgiXNkhRau4-00058-00019848-00020047 uh through the lens of a dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00059-00020048-00020286 theory research program
GgiXNkhRau4-00060-00020287-00020478 so um
GgiXNkhRau4-00061-00020479-00020607 first of all before even going into
GgiXNkhRau4-00062-00020608-00020750 dependency theory i don't think even
GgiXNkhRau4-00063-00020751-00020927 heterodox economics is something that is
GgiXNkhRau4-00064-00020928-00021239 uh very well understood um there is
GgiXNkhRau4-00065-00021240-00021383 quite a lot of literature about what it
GgiXNkhRau4-00066-00021384-00021583 actually is people who are
GgiXNkhRau4-00067-00021584-00021807 outside of the heterodox economics um
GgiXNkhRau4-00068-00021808-00022119 bubble very often think that it is
GgiXNkhRau4-00069-00022120-00022327 anything that's not mainstream so you
GgiXNkhRau4-00070-00022328-00022527 know any alternative theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00071-00022528-00022775 um and that anything goes as heterodox i
GgiXNkhRau4-00072-00022776-00022958 would argue that that's not really like
GgiXNkhRau4-00073-00022959-00023111 there is actually like a positive
GgiXNkhRau4-00074-00023112-00023335 definition of petrodox economics
GgiXNkhRau4-00075-00023336-00023558 that and that positive definition will
GgiXNkhRau4-00076-00023559-00023839 depend on who you ask but so me and my
GgiXNkhRau4-00077-00023840-00024030 co-author carolina alves put forward
GgiXNkhRau4-00078-00024031-00024319 this definition a couple of years ago
GgiXNkhRau4-00079-00024320-00024511 uh which is the heterodox economics is
GgiXNkhRau4-00080-00024512-00024727 the study of production and distribution
GgiXNkhRau4-00081-00024728-00024942 of economic surplus that centrally
GgiXNkhRau4-00082-00024943-00025150 involves the role of power relations in
GgiXNkhRau4-00083-00025151-00025439 determining economic relationships so
GgiXNkhRau4-00084-00025440-00025583 this stands in contrast to a lot of
GgiXNkhRau4-00085-00025584-00025831 mainstream economics which
GgiXNkhRau4-00086-00025832-00025927 doesn't
GgiXNkhRau4-00087-00025927-00026046 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00088-00026047-00026223 look at power as centrally as something
GgiXNkhRau4-00089-00026224-00026327 that
GgiXNkhRau4-00090-00026327-00026558 impacts economic relationships so you
GgiXNkhRau4-00091-00026560-00026790 have a wide variety of petrodox theories
GgiXNkhRau4-00092-00026791-00027023 including marxist and keynesian and
GgiXNkhRau4-00093-00027024-00027246 feminist and institutional
GgiXNkhRau4-00094-00027247-00027446 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00095-00027447-00027543 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00096-00027544-00027695 it's a very very
GgiXNkhRau4-00097-00027695-00027839 broad and
GgiXNkhRau4-00098-00027839-00028087 diverse
GgiXNkhRau4-00099-00028088-00028270 body of scholarship
GgiXNkhRau4-00100-00028272-00028439 but uh since i'm going to talk about
GgiXNkhRau4-00101-00028439-00028574 dependency theory i think it's also
GgiXNkhRau4-00102-00028575-00028670 important to say that heterodox
GgiXNkhRau4-00103-00028672-00028839 economics actually also has been
GgiXNkhRau4-00104-00028839-00029023 critiqued for being eurocentric and for
GgiXNkhRau4-00105-00029024-00029239 focusing on theories that come from the
GgiXNkhRau4-00106-00029239-00029407 global north and for looking mostly at
GgiXNkhRau4-00107-00029408-00029670 the global north uh and also for being
GgiXNkhRau4-00108-00029672-00029807 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00109-00029808-00029974 insensitive to things like gender which
GgiXNkhRau4-00110-00029975-00030207 is why feminist economics came about
GgiXNkhRau4-00111-00030208-00030287 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00112-00030288-00030590 and also insensitive to things like race
GgiXNkhRau4-00113-00030591-00030758 so you very often have marx and keynes
GgiXNkhRau4-00114-00030760-00030927 and srapha and veblen and all these kind
GgiXNkhRau4-00115-00030927-00031143 of white male scholars in the from the
GgiXNkhRau4-00116-00031144-00031390 global north um so therefore actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00117-00031391-00031567 dependency theory provides an important
GgiXNkhRau4-00118-00031568-00031855 counterpoint to a lot of heterodox
GgiXNkhRau4-00119-00031856-00031983 economics
GgiXNkhRau4-00120-00031983-00032079 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00121-00032080-00032311 dependency theory in some ways emerged
GgiXNkhRau4-00122-00032312-00032527 it merged as an alternative to
GgiXNkhRau4-00123-00032527-00032727 mainstream economics but also as an
GgiXNkhRau4-00124-00032727-00032855 alternative to
GgiXNkhRau4-00125-00032856-00033007 what a lot of scholars in the global
GgiXNkhRau4-00126-00033008-00033239 south saw as this eurocentric marxism
GgiXNkhRau4-00127-00033240-00033446 where they saw that you know some some
GgiXNkhRau4-00128-00033447-00033646 marxists were saying that they thought
GgiXNkhRau4-00129-00033647-00033839 that the countries in the global south
GgiXNkhRau4-00130-00033840-00034031 would just go through similar stages as
GgiXNkhRau4-00131-00034032-00034183 countries in the global north that
GgiXNkhRau4-00132-00034184-00034367 capitalism would evolve in the same way
GgiXNkhRau4-00133-00034368-00034471 everywhere
GgiXNkhRau4-00134-00034472-00034718 uh which dependency theorists theorizing
GgiXNkhRau4-00135-00034719-00034902 from brazil
GgiXNkhRau4-00136-00034903-00035255 from argentina from mexico from egypt
GgiXNkhRau4-00137-00035256-00035431 we're saying no actually capitalism is
GgiXNkhRau4-00138-00035432-00035695 not evolving in the same way here as
GgiXNkhRau4-00139-00035696-00035999 what it did in in england in the in the
GgiXNkhRau4-00140-00036000-00036159 industrial revolution
GgiXNkhRau4-00141-00036160-00036374 uh so dependency theory there as like a
GgiXNkhRau4-00142-00036375-00036535 branch of heterodox economics also
GgiXNkhRau4-00143-00036536-00036790 challenges some aspects of heterodox
GgiXNkhRau4-00144-00036791-00036983 economics
GgiXNkhRau4-00145-00036984-00037174 so that is just to situate dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00146-00037175-00037535 theory within heterodox um theories
GgiXNkhRau4-00147-00037536-00037630 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00148-00037631-00037879 and um then to say briefly about what
GgiXNkhRau4-00149-00037880-00038102 dependency theory is
GgiXNkhRau4-00150-00038103-00038374 uh first of all dependency theory as a
GgiXNkhRau4-00151-00038375-00038567 term i think it's not very
GgiXNkhRau4-00152-00038568-00038783 helpful in a way because it signals that
GgiXNkhRau4-00153-00038784-00038927 it's just one theory but actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00154-00038928-00039102 there's many theories and i put some
GgiXNkhRau4-00155-00039103-00039255 books up here on the slide that you can
GgiXNkhRau4-00156-00039256-00039390 look at
GgiXNkhRau4-00157-00039391-00039599 which are by different kinds of
GgiXNkhRau4-00158-00039600-00039799 dependency theorists that
GgiXNkhRau4-00159-00039800-00039974 theorize from different
GgiXNkhRau4-00160-00039975-00040167 theoretical traditions
GgiXNkhRau4-00161-00040168-00040423 um it's very often associated with
GgiXNkhRau4-00162-00040424-00040590 andrei mundo frank
GgiXNkhRau4-00163-00040591-00040799 samir min
GgiXNkhRau4-00164-00040800-00041023 and furtado some of you may know some of
GgiXNkhRau4-00165-00041024-00041158 these scholars and i put the books up
GgiXNkhRau4-00166-00041159-00041239 here
GgiXNkhRau4-00167-00041240-00041430 um on the side
GgiXNkhRau4-00168-00041431-00041583 uh some of them are marxist some of them
GgiXNkhRau4-00169-00041584-00041695 are near marxist some of them are
GgiXNkhRau4-00170-00041696-00041799 institutionalists some of them are
GgiXNkhRau4-00171-00041800-00041990 structuralists
GgiXNkhRau4-00172-00041991-00042311 um just to have one definition up um i
GgiXNkhRau4-00173-00042312-00042535 took one from da santos
GgiXNkhRau4-00174-00042536-00042839 uh who says that i said in 1970 and it's
GgiXNkhRau4-00175-00042840-00043079 still very often used this definition of
GgiXNkhRau4-00176-00043080-00043271 dependency of dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00177-00043272-00043543 and um so he said that it's a situation
GgiXNkhRau4-00178-00043544-00043695 in which the economy of certain
GgiXNkhRau4-00179-00043696-00043839 countries is conditioned by the
GgiXNkhRau4-00180-00043840-00044087 development and expansion of another
GgiXNkhRau4-00181-00044088-00044167 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00182-00044168-00044335 this is a very basic definition it still
GgiXNkhRau4-00183-00044336-00044471 doesn't say
GgiXNkhRau4-00184-00044472-00044687 how a country is conditioned or why it's
GgiXNkhRau4-00185-00044688-00044943 conditioned um and like what the theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00186-00044944-00045118 behind that conditioning is so it's
GgiXNkhRau4-00187-00045119-00045358 still quite broad and opens opens up
GgiXNkhRau4-00188-00045359-00045527 actually for different interpretations
GgiXNkhRau4-00189-00045528-00045751 of this conditioning
GgiXNkhRau4-00190-00045752-00045983 um and there is lots of disagreement and
GgiXNkhRau4-00191-00045984-00046239 in the in the 60s and 70s there were
GgiXNkhRau4-00192-00046240-00046486 lots of special issues and especially in
GgiXNkhRau4-00193-00046487-00046615 latin america
GgiXNkhRau4-00194-00046616-00046830 about what dependency means how it can
GgiXNkhRau4-00195-00046831-00047079 be theorized how it can be studied
GgiXNkhRau4-00196-00047080-00047302 and samira min actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00197-00047303-00047607 uh he was an egyptian economist and he
GgiXNkhRau4-00198-00047608-00047886 in 1972 so 50 years ago organized this
GgiXNkhRau4-00199-00047887-00048118 conference in dakar in senegal where he
GgiXNkhRau4-00200-00048119-00048215 brought
GgiXNkhRau4-00201-00048216-00048502 frank dos santos and uh i don't think
GgiXNkhRau4-00202-00048503-00048711 furtado was there um
GgiXNkhRau4-00203-00048712-00049015 but lots of dependency theorists to
GgiXNkhRau4-00204-00049016-00049207 senegal to have these discussions so
GgiXNkhRau4-00205-00049208-00049390 it's a very very um
GgiXNkhRau4-00206-00049391-00049511 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00207-00049512-00049662 diverse tradition but they were having a
GgiXNkhRau4-00208-00049663-00049855 lot of debates so they weren't really uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00209-00049856-00050095 working in isolation
GgiXNkhRau4-00210-00050096-00050327 the main camps that are often like in
GgiXNkhRau4-00211-00050328-00050639 the literature you'll very often um see
GgiXNkhRau4-00212-00050640-00050774 the literature divided into latin
GgiXNkhRau4-00213-00050775-00050990 american structuralists and neo-marxists
GgiXNkhRau4-00214-00050991-00051167 but there is lots of they're also latin
GgiXNkhRau4-00215-00051168-00051382 american marxists and um
GgiXNkhRau4-00216-00051383-00051575 and um other there's lots of
GgiXNkhRau4-00217-00051576-00051790 disagreement within marxism as well
GgiXNkhRau4-00218-00051791-00052014 those are kind of the main camps and
GgiXNkhRau4-00219-00052015-00052182 depending on how you define dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00220-00052183-00052414 theory you could also think of
GgiXNkhRau4-00221-00052415-00052647 um other theories as dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00222-00052648-00052838 like for example colonial drain theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00223-00052839-00052975 which was
GgiXNkhRau4-00224-00052976-00053230 developed in india even before
GgiXNkhRau4-00225-00053232-00053454 dependency theory became
GgiXNkhRau4-00226-00053455-00053591 a term
GgiXNkhRau4-00227-00053591-00053694 so that kind of depends on your
GgiXNkhRau4-00228-00053695-00053799 definition
GgiXNkhRau4-00229-00053800-00053999 but these kind of basic ideas of
GgiXNkhRau4-00230-00054000-00054159 dependency as conditioning is something
GgiXNkhRau4-00231-00054160-00054471 that actually has quite an old legacy
GgiXNkhRau4-00232-00054472-00054663 so that's kind of a very very
GgiXNkhRau4-00233-00054664-00054879 brief overview and we'll get more into
GgiXNkhRau4-00234-00054879-00055063 each of these aspects
GgiXNkhRau4-00235-00055064-00055215 as we go on
GgiXNkhRau4-00236-00055216-00055423 uh when i first started looking into
GgiXNkhRau4-00237-00055424-00055599 dependency theory in a heterodox
GgiXNkhRau4-00238-00055600-00055863 economics program actually it was
GgiXNkhRau4-00239-00055864-00056126 not very well known and quite
GgiXNkhRau4-00240-00056127-00056350 um unpopular
GgiXNkhRau4-00241-00056351-00056559 in heterodox in heterodox scholarship so
GgiXNkhRau4-00242-00056560-00056719 i was like this is maybe
GgiXNkhRau4-00243-00056720-00056823 now
GgiXNkhRau4-00244-00056824-00056903 uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00245-00056904-00057103 seven eight years ago um but i think
GgiXNkhRau4-00246-00057104-00057294 there's been a revival in more recent
GgiXNkhRau4-00247-00057295-00057559 years and i'll get to that in a second
GgiXNkhRau4-00248-00057560-00057687 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00249-00057688-00057838 but at that time so seven eight years
GgiXNkhRau4-00250-00057839-00058111 ago uh there were lots of um
GgiXNkhRau4-00251-00058112-00058199 uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00252-00058200-00058391 if dependency theory was ever mentioned
GgiXNkhRau4-00253-00058391-00058591 in the news it would be in this negative
GgiXNkhRau4-00254-00058591-00058966 way like the dustbin of history uh or
GgiXNkhRau4-00255-00058967-00059215 so this is a on the right an article
GgiXNkhRau4-00256-00059216-00059382 from the guardian where
GgiXNkhRau4-00257-00059383-00059671 uh it's like into like conspiracy theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00258-00059672-00059766 basically
GgiXNkhRau4-00259-00059767-00059991 so it was very very often dismissed in
GgiXNkhRau4-00260-00059991-00060191 textbooks it would often be presented as
GgiXNkhRau4-00261-00060191-00060311 something from
GgiXNkhRau4-00262-00060312-00060503 like an uh in a history of thought
GgiXNkhRau4-00263-00060504-00060654 chapter not as something that's relevant
GgiXNkhRau4-00264-00060655-00060766 today
GgiXNkhRau4-00265-00060767-00060959 um so it was very very much out of
GgiXNkhRau4-00266-00060960-00061135 fashion and i still think that is
GgiXNkhRau4-00267-00061136-00061326 actually even though there is a revival
GgiXNkhRau4-00268-00061327-00061463 is starting it's still not something
GgiXNkhRau4-00269-00061464-00061679 that is taught very actively in most
GgiXNkhRau4-00270-00061679-00061903 economics programs
GgiXNkhRau4-00271-00061904-00062094 even heterodox
GgiXNkhRau4-00272-00062095-00062206 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00273-00062207-00062423 but here so i took this from
GgiXNkhRau4-00274-00062424-00062703 felipe and tunas de oliveira tweeted
GgiXNkhRau4-00275-00062704-00062799 about this
GgiXNkhRau4-00276-00062800-00062959 a couple of months ago so i just took
GgiXNkhRau4-00277-00062960-00063238 this tweet from his um timeline
GgiXNkhRau4-00278-00063239-00063535 uh so he looks at on scopus which is the
GgiXNkhRau4-00279-00063536-00063735 database with publications and he looks
GgiXNkhRau4-00280-00063736-00063879 at all publications that mention
GgiXNkhRau4-00281-00063879-00064111 dependency theory in their titles or
GgiXNkhRau4-00282-00064112-00064254 abstracts
GgiXNkhRau4-00283-00064255-00064503 and you can see here that it was very um
GgiXNkhRau4-00284-00064504-00064694 there was kind of a boom
GgiXNkhRau4-00285-00064695-00064887 since uh 20
GgiXNkhRau4-00286-00064888-00065182 yeah 2010s or so so there is you know
GgiXNkhRau4-00287-00065183-00065375 some it's not something that is you know
GgiXNkhRau4-00288-00065376-00065479 as
GgiXNkhRau4-00289-00065479-00065575 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00290-00065576-00065791 popular as like for example post games
GgiXNkhRau4-00291-00065792-00065926 in economics but
GgiXNkhRau4-00292-00065927-00066119 um it's still there is actually a lot of
GgiXNkhRau4-00293-00066120-00066326 recognition that it has something to say
GgiXNkhRau4-00294-00066327-00066591 at least more scholars are engaging with
GgiXNkhRau4-00295-00066592-00066799 it directly it could be that those
GgiXNkhRau4-00296-00066800-00066919 people we don't know what these papers
GgiXNkhRau4-00297-00066920-00066999 are saying it could be that they're
GgiXNkhRau4-00298-00067000-00067294 critiquing it too but um regardless it's
GgiXNkhRau4-00299-00067295-00067647 more being published about more
GgiXNkhRau4-00300-00067648-00068006 so possibly back in fashion a little bit
GgiXNkhRau4-00301-00068007-00068431 um before i uh go into the relevance and
GgiXNkhRau4-00302-00068432-00068582 utility of dependency theory i just
GgiXNkhRau4-00303-00068583-00068759 wanted to pause a little bit and think
GgiXNkhRau4-00304-00068760-00068935 about why it went out of fashion because
GgiXNkhRau4-00305-00068936-00069094 i think that's also helpful for us to
GgiXNkhRau4-00306-00069095-00069215 understand
GgiXNkhRau4-00307-00069216-00069350 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00308-00069351-00069535 what is still relevant about it if
GgiXNkhRau4-00309-00069536-00069663 there's any of the critiques that we
GgiXNkhRau4-00310-00069664-00069887 should take on board and think about um
GgiXNkhRau4-00311-00069888-00070063 and also just in terms of thinking about
GgiXNkhRau4-00312-00070064-00070350 why theories actually come and go
GgiXNkhRau4-00313-00070351-00070638 in and out of fashion at all um and
GgiXNkhRau4-00314-00070639-00070815 because that is also relevant for how we
GgiXNkhRau4-00315-00070816-00071031 kind of choose what theories to view the
GgiXNkhRau4-00316-00071032-00071223 world through
GgiXNkhRau4-00317-00071224-00071482 so uh in the paper that i published last
GgiXNkhRau4-00318-00071483-00071775 year beyond the stereotype
GgiXNkhRau4-00319-00071776-00071950 i categorized the different arguments
GgiXNkhRau4-00320-00071951-00072182 against dependency theory in the
GgiXNkhRau4-00321-00072183-00072359 70s and 80s
GgiXNkhRau4-00322-00072360-00072550 in terms of epistemological critiques
GgiXNkhRau4-00323-00072551-00072743 empirical critiques and political
GgiXNkhRau4-00324-00072744-00072887 critiques
GgiXNkhRau4-00325-00072888-00073143 so epistemological basically are those
GgiXNkhRau4-00326-00073144-00073279 critiques that
GgiXNkhRau4-00327-00073280-00073447 criticize the theories themselves for
GgiXNkhRau4-00328-00073448-00073655 not being good theories for not being um
GgiXNkhRau4-00329-00073656-00073791 you know rigorous
GgiXNkhRau4-00330-00073792-00074015 for not explaining things well
GgiXNkhRau4-00331-00074016-00074126 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00332-00074127-00074326 one of the reasons for there's a lot of
GgiXNkhRau4-00333-00074327-00074479 epistemological critique of the
GgiXNkhRau4-00334-00074480-00074623 dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00335-00074624-00074887 and uh one of the reasons is as cardozo
GgiXNkhRau4-00336-00074888-00075159 argued that andrei gunder frank who is
GgiXNkhRau4-00337-00075160-00075391 one of the most cited dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00338-00075392-00075599 theorists in the global north not in the
GgiXNkhRau4-00339-00075600-00075735 global south but in the global north so
GgiXNkhRau4-00340-00075736-00075959 he was based in the global north which
GgiXNkhRau4-00341-00075960-00076094 is quite different from most of the
GgiXNkhRau4-00342-00076095-00076343 other dependency theorists
GgiXNkhRau4-00343-00076344-00076550 he kind of was very often taken to be a
GgiXNkhRau4-00344-00076551-00076719 spokesperson for the tradition as a
GgiXNkhRau4-00345-00076720-00076831 whole
GgiXNkhRau4-00346-00076832-00077006 and his version of dependency theory is
GgiXNkhRau4-00347-00077007-00077294 a very kind of simplified uh maybe one
GgiXNkhRau4-00348-00077295-00077447 of the weaker
GgiXNkhRau4-00349-00077448-00077655 theories in the tradition as a whole
GgiXNkhRau4-00350-00077656-00077726 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00351-00077727-00077959 a lot of critiques were frank
GgiXNkhRau4-00352-00077960-00078111 but frank wasn't actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00353-00078112-00078262 representatives
GgiXNkhRau4-00354-00078263-00078455 a representative of
GgiXNkhRau4-00355-00078456-00078591 dependency theory as a tradition because
GgiXNkhRau4-00356-00078592-00078823 there were so many other um scholars in
GgiXNkhRau4-00357-00078824-00078999 latin america and africa
GgiXNkhRau4-00358-00079000-00079206 uh mostly that had completely different
GgiXNkhRau4-00359-00079207-00079367 approaches than frank but they weren't
GgiXNkhRau4-00360-00079368-00079694 even kind of engaged with by the critics
GgiXNkhRau4-00361-00079695-00079943 so that's one reason why and there were
GgiXNkhRau4-00362-00079944-00080094 all these epistemological critiques of
GgiXNkhRau4-00363-00080095-00080191 frank
GgiXNkhRau4-00364-00080192-00080359 um then there was also this
GgiXNkhRau4-00365-00080360-00080526 misunderstanding
GgiXNkhRau4-00366-00080527-00080726 uh about
GgiXNkhRau4-00367-00080727-00080959 a dependency theory being one theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00368-00080960-00081111 understandably so because it's called
GgiXNkhRau4-00369-00081112-00081255 dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00370-00081256-00081582 um and you see this there was a very um
GgiXNkhRau4-00371-00081583-00081903 uh famous well-known and widely cited
GgiXNkhRau4-00372-00081904-00082223 article by lul in 1975 where he argues
GgiXNkhRau4-00373-00082224-00082455 that dependency theorists are confused
GgiXNkhRau4-00374-00082456-00082671 they don't have conceptual clarity
GgiXNkhRau4-00375-00082672-00082847 uh they say that dependency theory is
GgiXNkhRau4-00376-00082848-00082975 one thing in one article and then they
GgiXNkhRau4-00377-00082976-00083143 say something else in another
GgiXNkhRau4-00378-00083144-00083255 but actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00379-00083256-00083438 those are you know dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00380-00083439-00083559 actually means different things right
GgiXNkhRau4-00381-00083560-00083726 there were debates like of course they
GgiXNkhRau4-00382-00083727-00083862 would say different things in different
GgiXNkhRau4-00383-00083863-00083991 articles because these were different
GgiXNkhRau4-00384-00083992-00084079 people
GgiXNkhRau4-00385-00084080-00084359 uh with different uh arguments and
GgiXNkhRau4-00386-00084360-00084494 different traditions so the marxist
GgiXNkhRau4-00387-00084495-00084606 would obviously say something very
GgiXNkhRau4-00388-00084607-00084759 different from a structuralist
GgiXNkhRau4-00389-00084760-00084991 um but lao kind of made it seem like it
GgiXNkhRau4-00390-00084992-00085191 was just one theory that kind of was
GgiXNkhRau4-00391-00085192-00085391 interpreted in different ways
GgiXNkhRau4-00392-00085392-00085575 and was just confused that doesn't mean
GgiXNkhRau4-00393-00085576-00085775 that some dependency theorists probably
GgiXNkhRau4-00394-00085776-00085959 were confused too right it's a very rich
GgiXNkhRau4-00395-00085960-00086103 and diverse tradition so you'll have
GgiXNkhRau4-00396-00086104-00086247 stronger and weaker
GgiXNkhRau4-00397-00086248-00086543 uh versions of the theory but um
GgiXNkhRau4-00398-00086544-00086671 uh very often there was a
GgiXNkhRau4-00399-00086672-00086823 misunderstanding about it being one
GgiXNkhRau4-00400-00086824-00087167 theory and therefore being confused
GgiXNkhRau4-00401-00087168-00087318 um there was also a very well-known
GgiXNkhRau4-00402-00087319-00087423 critique
GgiXNkhRau4-00403-00087424-00087718 by robert brenner and marxist in 1977
GgiXNkhRau4-00404-00087719-00087926 where he critiques uh frank and
GgiXNkhRau4-00405-00087927-00088047 wallerstein
GgiXNkhRau4-00406-00088048-00088199 uh so
GgiXNkhRau4-00407-00088200-00088350 again that's and that's a very widely
GgiXNkhRau4-00408-00088351-00088567 cited critique of dependency theory but
GgiXNkhRau4-00409-00088568-00088703 he's actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00410-00088704-00088903 only critiquing frank and wallerstein as
GgiXNkhRau4-00411-00088904-00089079 a world systems theorist so it's not
GgiXNkhRau4-00412-00089080-00089262 even engaging at all with the latin
GgiXNkhRau4-00413-00089263-00089487 american or the african dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00414-00089488-00089726 theorists
GgiXNkhRau4-00415-00089727-00089926 um so those two points that i have here
GgiXNkhRau4-00416-00089927-00090079 on the on the screen i think are not
GgiXNkhRau4-00417-00090080-00090199 really um
GgiXNkhRau4-00418-00090200-00090438 very um helpful critiques in terms of
GgiXNkhRau4-00419-00090439-00090606 actually taking the
GgiXNkhRau4-00420-00090607-00090799 the tradition seriously
GgiXNkhRau4-00421-00090800-00090982 uh there are some other critiques it was
GgiXNkhRau4-00422-00090983-00091150 critiqued for being tautological for
GgiXNkhRau4-00423-00091151-00091391 example that dependency theories
GgiXNkhRau4-00424-00091392-00091623 theorists would say oh you know
GgiXNkhRau4-00425-00091624-00091750 uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00426-00091751-00091950 um we have we're dependent on raw
GgiXNkhRau4-00427-00091951-00092199 material exports so we're dependent for
GgiXNkhRau4-00428-00092200-00092399 example or something like that um there
GgiXNkhRau4-00429-00092400-00092526 were some scholars like that that kind
GgiXNkhRau4-00430-00092527-00092694 of make a circular argument instead of
GgiXNkhRau4-00431-00092695-00092862 kind of trying to unpack okay but why
GgiXNkhRau4-00432-00092863-00092999 are you dependent on raw material
GgiXNkhRau4-00433-00093000-00093199 experts experts to begin with
GgiXNkhRau4-00434-00093200-00093423 i think a lot of dependency theories
GgiXNkhRau4-00435-00093424-00093615 do actually go into historical sort of
GgiXNkhRau4-00436-00093616-00093831 causal relations but
GgiXNkhRau4-00437-00093832-00093950 anyway this is often brought up as a
GgiXNkhRau4-00438-00093951-00094191 critique that is reductionist that it's
GgiXNkhRau4-00439-00094192-00094455 mechanic that it denies agency from
GgiXNkhRau4-00440-00094456-00094599 southern actors
GgiXNkhRau4-00441-00094600-00094750 um so those are some critiques that i
GgiXNkhRau4-00442-00094751-00094982 think are valid for some theory theories
GgiXNkhRau4-00443-00094983-00095159 within the tradition that i think you
GgiXNkhRau4-00444-00095160-00095311 know are important to take seriously
GgiXNkhRau4-00445-00095312-00095535 although they don't invalidate all of
GgiXNkhRau4-00446-00095536-00095774 the theories in the tradition
GgiXNkhRau4-00447-00095775-00095943 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00448-00095944-00096167 those were some epistemological reasons
GgiXNkhRau4-00449-00096168-00096318 that were often brought up
GgiXNkhRau4-00450-00096319-00096567 and then the empirical reasons are maybe
GgiXNkhRau4-00451-00096568-00096694 those that
GgiXNkhRau4-00452-00096695-00097062 are more familiar to some of you
GgiXNkhRau4-00453-00097063-00097206 um so
GgiXNkhRau4-00454-00097207-00097391 very often you'll hear the argument that
GgiXNkhRau4-00455-00097392-00097687 well you know it's clearly possible to
GgiXNkhRau4-00456-00097688-00097838 develop within
GgiXNkhRau4-00457-00097839-00098047 capitalism because we can see that the
GgiXNkhRau4-00458-00098048-00098318 asian miracle so-called miracle happened
GgiXNkhRau4-00459-00098319-00098543 um many countries developed within
GgiXNkhRau4-00460-00098544-00098703 capitalism so therefore dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00461-00098704-00098959 theory is outdated
GgiXNkhRau4-00462-00098960-00099118 so i think this is a also a
GgiXNkhRau4-00463-00099119-00099287 misunderstanding of dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00464-00099288-00099431 they didn't say
GgiXNkhRau4-00465-00099432-00099638 that it's impossible to develop within
GgiXNkhRau4-00466-00099639-00099831 capitalism but maybe some like frank for
GgiXNkhRau4-00467-00099832-00099950 example might have said that in some
GgiXNkhRau4-00468-00099951-00100094 articles but that's that wasn't like the
GgiXNkhRau4-00469-00100095-00100415 main uh argument or the main conclusion
GgiXNkhRau4-00470-00100416-00100631 um so
GgiXNkhRau4-00471-00100632-00100815 and i'll show in a second how actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00472-00100816-00100982 so in that paper beyond the stereotype i
GgiXNkhRau4-00473-00100983-00101191 go i choose south korea as an example to
GgiXNkhRau4-00474-00101192-00101350 look at how we can actually understand
GgiXNkhRau4-00475-00101351-00101623 the south asian miracle no the asian
GgiXNkhRau4-00476-00101624-00101791 miracle countries
GgiXNkhRau4-00477-00101792-00101887 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00478-00101888-00102118 through a dependency lens
GgiXNkhRau4-00479-00102119-00102374 to debunk this critique
GgiXNkhRau4-00480-00102375-00102590 and then another argument that is often
GgiXNkhRau4-00481-00102591-00102718 brought up is that the world is so
GgiXNkhRau4-00482-00102719-00102927 different now from the 60s and 70s we
GgiXNkhRau4-00483-00102928-00103230 have these far flung global value chains
GgiXNkhRau4-00484-00103231-00103327 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00485-00103328-00103502 which is completely different from the
GgiXNkhRau4-00486-00103503-00103751 world that furtado and amin
GgiXNkhRau4-00487-00103752-00103847 new
GgiXNkhRau4-00488-00103848-00104086 so therefore it's not relevant anymore
GgiXNkhRau4-00489-00104088-00104215 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00490-00104216-00104399 and also a lot of developing countries
GgiXNkhRau4-00491-00104400-00104606 have industrialized in some ways through
GgiXNkhRau4-00492-00104607-00104830 these global value chains by moving from
GgiXNkhRau4-00493-00104831-00105207 raw material exports to a low value to
GgiXNkhRau4-00494-00105208-00105407 industrial industrial goods
GgiXNkhRau4-00495-00105408-00105654 low value-added industrial goods usually
GgiXNkhRau4-00496-00105655-00105895 so to engage with this critique i'll
GgiXNkhRau4-00497-00105896-00106078 look at indonesia as an example as one
GgiXNkhRau4-00498-00106079-00106231 of the countries that is like very very
GgiXNkhRau4-00499-00106232-00106478 integrated into global value chains um
GgiXNkhRau4-00500-00106479-00106678 to see if we can understand indonesia if
GgiXNkhRau4-00501-00106679-00106823 a dependency framework helps us
GgiXNkhRau4-00502-00106824-00107158 understand indonesia's development
GgiXNkhRau4-00503-00107159-00107454 um so finally another reason why it went
GgiXNkhRau4-00504-00107455-00107702 out of fashion i think is this political
GgiXNkhRau4-00505-00107703-00107815 reason
GgiXNkhRau4-00506-00107816-00108071 um that like the reason theories go in
GgiXNkhRau4-00507-00108072-00108231 and out of fashion is not necessarily
GgiXNkhRau4-00508-00108232-00108423 because they're better or worse but
GgiXNkhRau4-00509-00108424-00108510 actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00510-00108511-00108727 for because of the political economy of
GgiXNkhRau4-00511-00108728-00108871 knowledge production
GgiXNkhRau4-00512-00108872-00108966 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00513-00108967-00109151 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00514-00109152-00109415 and we know that as heterodox economists
GgiXNkhRau4-00515-00109416-00109671 uh we know that the um petrodox
GgiXNkhRau4-00516-00109672-00109807 economics also went out of fashion
GgiXNkhRau4-00517-00109808-00110054 generally in the
GgiXNkhRau4-00518-00110055-00110375 in the 80s especially in the 70s and 80s
GgiXNkhRau4-00519-00110376-00110615 and it's even a bit too shallow to say
GgiXNkhRau4-00520-00110616-00110734 out of fashion because actually it was
GgiXNkhRau4-00521-00110735-00110871 like a very political process that it
GgiXNkhRau4-00522-00110872-00111047 was like violently actually squeezed out
GgiXNkhRau4-00523-00111048-00111119 of
GgiXNkhRau4-00524-00111120-00111375 uh economics departments across the
GgiXNkhRau4-00525-00111376-00111710 global north and the global south um
GgiXNkhRau4-00526-00111711-00111895 where yeah many economic departments
GgiXNkhRau4-00527-00111896-00112127 were shut down or marginalized and
GgiXNkhRau4-00528-00112128-00112351 there's very few heterodox spaces for
GgiXNkhRau4-00529-00112352-00112510 heterodox thinking left
GgiXNkhRau4-00530-00112511-00112678 in the world even now
GgiXNkhRau4-00531-00112679-00112758 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00532-00112759-00112863 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00533-00112864-00112999 that is like a political reason so
GgiXNkhRau4-00534-00113000-00113183 dependency theory is um
GgiXNkhRau4-00535-00113183-00113358 uh you know a sub theory within
GgiXNkhRau4-00536-00113359-00113551 heterodox economics so
GgiXNkhRau4-00537-00113552-00113815 it was also squeezed out um along with
GgiXNkhRau4-00538-00113816-00114102 the other heterobox theories as well
GgiXNkhRau4-00539-00114103-00114239 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00540-00114240-00114375 why did it go out of fashion i've talked
GgiXNkhRau4-00541-00114376-00114615 a bit about that so now in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-00542-00114616-00114966 think about whether it's still relevant
GgiXNkhRau4-00543-00114967-00115254 i want to define dependency theory um so
GgiXNkhRau4-00544-00115255-00115375 i designed this already gave a
GgiXNkhRau4-00545-00115376-00115527 definition which was very kind of very
GgiXNkhRau4-00546-00115528-00115751 specific and broad at the same time
GgiXNkhRau4-00547-00115752-00115943 when i was um first going into
GgiXNkhRau4-00548-00115944-00116215 dependency theory almost a decade ago i
GgiXNkhRau4-00549-00116216-00116502 did find the scholarship very confusing
GgiXNkhRau4-00550-00116503-00116631 because there were so many different
GgiXNkhRau4-00551-00116632-00116775 theories and
GgiXNkhRau4-00552-00116776-00117015 not many definitions of the tradition as
GgiXNkhRau4-00553-00117016-00117158 a whole it seemed like a lot of the
GgiXNkhRau4-00554-00117159-00117302 people within dependency theory were
GgiXNkhRau4-00555-00117303-00117454 more
GgiXNkhRau4-00556-00117455-00117710 interested in arguing or debating with
GgiXNkhRau4-00557-00117711-00117927 each other rather than kind of trying to
GgiXNkhRau4-00558-00117928-00118143 create some kind of holistic um
GgiXNkhRau4-00559-00118144-00118319 research program
GgiXNkhRau4-00560-00118320-00118390 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00561-00118391-00118607 that's why i um
GgiXNkhRau4-00562-00118608-00118799 um in order to even like what i thought
GgiXNkhRau4-00563-00118800-00118934 i was going to be doing during my phd
GgiXNkhRau4-00564-00118935-00119095 was to kind of take dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00565-00119096-00119239 and explore an empirical
GgiXNkhRau4-00566-00119240-00119423 example but in the end i ended up just
GgiXNkhRau4-00567-00119424-00119599 kind of making well i also did some
GgiXNkhRau4-00568-00119600-00119790 empirics but also one of the big things
GgiXNkhRau4-00569-00119791-00119919 that i did was even just trying to
GgiXNkhRau4-00570-00119920-00120031 organize
GgiXNkhRau4-00571-00120032-00120223 um and come up with a kind of definition
GgiXNkhRau4-00572-00120224-00120463 of the tradition
GgiXNkhRau4-00573-00120464-00120710 so um
GgiXNkhRau4-00574-00120711-00120999 i used lakatos for this um
GgiXNkhRau4-00575-00121000-00121151 he's a philosopher and who kind of has
GgiXNkhRau4-00576-00121152-00121431 thought about how to define um
GgiXNkhRau4-00577-00121432-00121534 different
GgiXNkhRau4-00578-00121535-00121678 schools of thought and how you like
GgiXNkhRau4-00579-00121679-00121854 create the boundaries and stuff and he
GgiXNkhRau4-00580-00121855-00122047 argues that a research program is a
GgiXNkhRau4-00581-00122048-00122247 collection of interrelated theories that
GgiXNkhRau4-00582-00122248-00122431 have a common hypothesis
GgiXNkhRau4-00583-00122432-00122678 that have like a hard core so i argue
GgiXNkhRau4-00584-00122679-00122863 that the hypothesis of dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00585-00122864-00123039 is oh whoops
GgiXNkhRau4-00586-00123040-00123199 that global capitalism tends to be
GgiXNkhRau4-00587-00123200-00123375 polarizing that there's uneven
GgiXNkhRau4-00588-00123376-00123566 development this unevenness
GgiXNkhRau4-00589-00123567-00123863 and then the reasons for that is what
GgiXNkhRau4-00590-00123864-00124151 dependency theorists disagree on so it
GgiXNkhRau4-00591-00124152-00124254 could be
GgiXNkhRau4-00592-00124255-00124510 you have some that are concerned with
GgiXNkhRau4-00593-00124511-00124743 monopoly capitalism you have some that
GgiXNkhRau4-00594-00124744-00124943 are concerned with finance you have some
GgiXNkhRau4-00595-00124944-00125086 that are concerned with falling terms of
GgiXNkhRau4-00596-00125088-00125239 trade you have some that are concerned
GgiXNkhRau4-00597-00125240-00125414 with unequal exchange there's all these
GgiXNkhRau4-00598-00125415-00125639 different hypotheses within it
GgiXNkhRau4-00599-00125640-00125727 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00600-00125728-00125902 but the core thing is that they're
GgiXNkhRau4-00601-00125903-00126278 concerned with this polarizing tendency
GgiXNkhRau4-00602-00126279-00126414 um so
GgiXNkhRau4-00603-00126415-00126575 and also lakatos argues that new
GgiXNkhRau4-00604-00126576-00126727 research programs don't necessarily
GgiXNkhRau4-00605-00126728-00126919 explain the same questions better but
GgiXNkhRau4-00606-00126920-00127175 they might explain different things than
GgiXNkhRau4-00607-00127176-00127375 the ones previously considered so
GgiXNkhRau4-00608-00127376-00127583 there's also i mean a lot of um
GgiXNkhRau4-00609-00127583-00127775 literature on how development economics
GgiXNkhRau4-00610-00127776-00127966 has evolved and if you look at sort of
GgiXNkhRau4-00611-00127967-00128095 the mainstream of development economics
GgiXNkhRau4-00612-00128096-00128310 it's much more about poverty poverty
GgiXNkhRau4-00613-00128311-00128431 reduction
GgiXNkhRau4-00614-00128432-00128583 rather than about this kind of
GgiXNkhRau4-00615-00128583-00128758 polarizing tendency of capitalism so
GgiXNkhRau4-00616-00128759-00128943 it's not like dependency theory was
GgiXNkhRau4-00617-00128944-00129151 replaced with another explanation of the
GgiXNkhRau4-00618-00129152-00129414 polarizing tendencies of uh capitalism
GgiXNkhRau4-00619-00129415-00129678 it was actually that the research focus
GgiXNkhRau4-00620-00129679-00129863 shifted
GgiXNkhRau4-00621-00129864-00130254 with the rise of neoclassical economics
GgiXNkhRau4-00622-00130255-00130486 um so that's a brief overview of the
GgiXNkhRau4-00623-00130488-00130702 research program i also put here on the
GgiXNkhRau4-00624-00130703-00130934 side that they often employ a method a
GgiXNkhRau4-00625-00130935-00131119 global historical approach
GgiXNkhRau4-00626-00131120-00131343 which i'll also talk about in the
GgiXNkhRau4-00627-00131344-00131559 examples of indonesia and south korea
GgiXNkhRau4-00628-00131560-00131775 and focus on structures of production
GgiXNkhRau4-00629-00131776-00131990 and constraints faced by countries in
GgiXNkhRau4-00630-00131991-00132207 the periphery
GgiXNkhRau4-00631-00132208-00132302 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00632-00132303-00132447 now
GgiXNkhRau4-00633-00132448-00132654 that we have defined that
GgiXNkhRau4-00634-00132655-00132759 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00635-00132760-00132927 i'm asking the question so how can it
GgiXNkhRau4-00636-00132928-00133127 explain global inequality
GgiXNkhRau4-00637-00133128-00133311 so in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-00638-00133312-00133623 respond to the critiques i'm picking the
GgiXNkhRau4-00639-00133624-00133902 kind of least likely examples
GgiXNkhRau4-00640-00133903-00134087 um so south korea's development
GgiXNkhRau4-00641-00134088-00134254 trajectory that's often used to debunk
GgiXNkhRau4-00642-00134255-00134399 dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00643-00134400-00134566 and industrialization through global
GgiXNkhRau4-00644-00134567-00134814 value genes
GgiXNkhRau4-00645-00134815-00134902 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00646-00134903-00135207 let's look at them quickly
GgiXNkhRau4-00647-00135208-00135359 um so how can it explain global
GgiXNkhRau4-00648-00135360-00135543 inequality well let's look at the east
GgiXNkhRau4-00649-00135544-00135766 asian miracle
GgiXNkhRau4-00650-00135767-00135959 um so in order to understand south
GgiXNkhRau4-00651-00135960-00136087 korea's development trajectory i
GgiXNkhRau4-00652-00136088-00136287 actually argue that dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00653-00136288-00136447 can help us a lot and that there is a
GgiXNkhRau4-00654-00136448-00136566 lot of um
GgiXNkhRau4-00655-00136567-00136671 kind of
GgiXNkhRau4-00656-00136672-00136951 superficial interpretations of the
GgiXNkhRau4-00657-00136952-00137102 east asian miracle
GgiXNkhRau4-00658-00137103-00137214 countries
GgiXNkhRau4-00659-00137215-00137431 um but if we go actually taking a
GgiXNkhRau4-00660-00137432-00137654 historical approach approach historical
GgiXNkhRau4-00661-00137655-00137887 materialist approach that the dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00662-00137888-00138031 theories does actually can help us
GgiXNkhRau4-00663-00138032-00138183 understand better what what happened
GgiXNkhRau4-00664-00138184-00138271 there
GgiXNkhRau4-00665-00138272-00138511 um and so eckert has this book where he
GgiXNkhRau4-00666-00138512-00138702 does this he's not a dependency theorist
GgiXNkhRau4-00667-00138703-00138943 he's a historian um
GgiXNkhRau4-00668-00138944-00139159 but he argues that the way that
GgiXNkhRau4-00669-00139160-00139463 capitalism evolved in south korea during
GgiXNkhRau4-00670-00139464-00139639 colonialism
GgiXNkhRau4-00671-00139640-00139839 was in a way that where korean
GgiXNkhRau4-00672-00139840-00140095 businessmen were not really subordinated
GgiXNkhRau4-00673-00140096-00140447 by the political structure that was
GgiXNkhRau4-00674-00140448-00140599 pushed forward but rather that they were
GgiXNkhRau4-00675-00140600-00140839 incorporated into it so it's very very
GgiXNkhRau4-00676-00140840-00141127 different from how it evolved in a lot
GgiXNkhRau4-00677-00141128-00141366 of other colonial
GgiXNkhRau4-00678-00141367-00141502 colonies
GgiXNkhRau4-00679-00141503-00141775 where i was very very extractive um
GgiXNkhRau4-00680-00141776-00141966 and and i'm not making the case for
GgiXNkhRau4-00681-00141967-00142151 colonialism here but that i'm just
GgiXNkhRau4-00682-00142152-00142302 saying that it the way that these
GgiXNkhRau4-00683-00142303-00142487 structures evolved the way capital is
GgiXNkhRau4-00684-00142488-00142695 involved was a very particular took a
GgiXNkhRau4-00685-00142696-00142814 very particular form that was very
GgiXNkhRau4-00686-00142815-00142959 different from how it evolved in africa
GgiXNkhRau4-00687-00142960-00143159 and latin america and other parts of
GgiXNkhRau4-00688-00143160-00143407 asia
GgiXNkhRau4-00689-00143408-00143614 and this historical development laid the
GgiXNkhRau4-00690-00143615-00143854 foundation for industry
GgiXNkhRau4-00691-00143855-00144159 domestically that later emerged
GgiXNkhRau4-00692-00144160-00144319 as a part of the well-documented
GgiXNkhRau4-00693-00144320-00144478 developmental state
GgiXNkhRau4-00694-00144479-00144566 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00695-00144567-00144775 that yeah that a lot of scholars have
GgiXNkhRau4-00696-00144776-00144975 written about including hajoon chang who
GgiXNkhRau4-00697-00144976-00145166 i think many of you saw speak just an
GgiXNkhRau4-00698-00145167-00145271 hour ago
GgiXNkhRau4-00699-00145272-00145502 uh also alice samson vivek chimber and
GgiXNkhRau4-00700-00145503-00145663 others
GgiXNkhRau4-00701-00145664-00145839 talk about the developmental state but
GgiXNkhRau4-00702-00145840-00146047 not without not always going into the
GgiXNkhRau4-00703-00146048-00146175 history i mean hadron chang does that
GgiXNkhRau4-00704-00146176-00146319 very well and alice anderson does it to
GgiXNkhRau4-00705-00146320-00146495 a certain extent but very often what's
GgiXNkhRau4-00706-00146496-00146631 taken from the developmental state are
GgiXNkhRau4-00707-00146632-00146766 like the specific policies that were
GgiXNkhRau4-00708-00146767-00146878 implemented
GgiXNkhRau4-00709-00146879-00147302 um in the 50s and 60s
GgiXNkhRau4-00710-00147303-00147535 finally another very important aspect is
GgiXNkhRau4-00711-00147536-00147663 the
GgiXNkhRau4-00712-00147664-00147919 external constraints that countries face
GgiXNkhRau4-00713-00147920-00148063 that development that dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00714-00148064-00148287 theorists are very concerned with
GgiXNkhRau4-00715-00148288-00148599 and given the political situation at the
GgiXNkhRau4-00716-00148600-00148895 time when south korea was developing
GgiXNkhRau4-00717-00148896-00149007 south korea of course is next to north
GgiXNkhRau4-00718-00149008-00149231 korea so very very important
GgiXNkhRau4-00719-00149232-00149502 geopolitical site for the us and for
GgiXNkhRau4-00720-00149503-00149735 japan so they
GgiXNkhRau4-00721-00149736-00149919 south korea received an insane amount of
GgiXNkhRau4-00722-00149920-00150166 aid and financial assistance which
GgiXNkhRau4-00723-00150167-00150295 relieved a lot of the external
GgiXNkhRau4-00724-00150296-00150535 constraints they would have otherwise
GgiXNkhRau4-00725-00150536-00150751 faced so they had
GgiXNkhRau4-00726-00150752-00151071 balance of payments deficits for decades
GgiXNkhRau4-00727-00151072-00151263 that they were able to sustain because
GgiXNkhRau4-00728-00151264-00151351 of this
GgiXNkhRau4-00729-00151352-00151535 support
GgiXNkhRau4-00730-00151536-00151671 so that's kind of taking some of the
GgiXNkhRau4-00731-00151672-00151839 lessons from dependency theory in order
GgiXNkhRau4-00732-00151840-00152223 to understand south korea and doing so
GgiXNkhRau4-00733-00152224-00152423 it's like difficult to see how south
GgiXNkhRau4-00734-00152424-00152599 korea actually debunks
GgiXNkhRau4-00735-00152600-00152895 dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00736-00152896-00153278 um so to look at indonesia
GgiXNkhRau4-00737-00153279-00153566 um so indonesia is very kind of
GgiXNkhRau4-00738-00153567-00153735 integrated into global value chains so
GgiXNkhRau4-00739-00153736-00154023 again it could be an example of why
GgiXNkhRau4-00740-00154024-00154302 dependency theory isn't relevant anymore
GgiXNkhRau4-00741-00154303-00154407 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00742-00154408-00154607 again if we take a historical approach
GgiXNkhRau4-00743-00154608-00154643 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00744-00154644-00154783 [Music]
GgiXNkhRau4-00745-00154784-00154943 looking again back to the colonial
GgiXNkhRau4-00746-00154944-00155039 period
GgiXNkhRau4-00747-00155040-00155359 the way that indonesia's
GgiXNkhRau4-00748-00155360-00155590 social formations evolved were very
GgiXNkhRau4-00749-00155591-00155766 different from south korea there was a
GgiXNkhRau4-00750-00155767-00155990 very extractive regime in the colonial
GgiXNkhRau4-00751-00155991-00156087 period
GgiXNkhRau4-00752-00156088-00156247 uh which was about extracting raw
GgiXNkhRau4-00753-00156248-00156366 materials
GgiXNkhRau4-00754-00156367-00156566 and we see that actually the five
GgiXNkhRau4-00755-00156567-00156847 leading exports that accounted for
GgiXNkhRau4-00756-00156848-00157119 uh 70 of exports in 1900
GgiXNkhRau4-00757-00157120-00157390 uh still did in 1990.
GgiXNkhRau4-00758-00157391-00157535 so that's just to say something about
GgiXNkhRau4-00759-00157536-00157735 like how the structure the economic
GgiXNkhRau4-00760-00157736-00157895 production structures that
GgiXNkhRau4-00761-00157896-00158087 um were developed during colonialism
GgiXNkhRau4-00762-00158088-00158471 endured in a very um strong way you know
GgiXNkhRau4-00763-00158472-00158623 they persisted
GgiXNkhRau4-00764-00158624-00158814 um but there were developmentalist
GgiXNkhRau4-00765-00158815-00159063 policies in the 50s and 60s
GgiXNkhRau4-00766-00159064-00159175 which did
GgiXNkhRau4-00767-00159176-00159263 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00768-00159264-00159607 open up some space for um indonesia to
GgiXNkhRau4-00769-00159608-00159839 move up some of the global value chains
GgiXNkhRau4-00770-00159840-00160007 even though they then had to go into
GgiXNkhRau4-00771-00160008-00160214 structural adjustment in the 80s as many
GgiXNkhRau4-00772-00160215-00160447 developing countries had to
GgiXNkhRau4-00773-00160448-00160663 so the historical approach again it kind
GgiXNkhRau4-00774-00160664-00160823 of helps us see the different starting
GgiXNkhRau4-00775-00160824-00161199 point from south korea
GgiXNkhRau4-00776-00161200-00161463 in terms of production structures um it
GgiXNkhRau4-00777-00161464-00161702 did indonesia did uh upgrade
GgiXNkhRau4-00778-00161703-00161966 successfully from logging to plywood
GgiXNkhRau4-00779-00161967-00162175 in the 70s and 80s
GgiXNkhRau4-00780-00162176-00162487 um they had a lot of state support um
GgiXNkhRau4-00781-00162488-00162687 and there was a historical
GgiXNkhRau4-00782-00162688-00162878 timing that was also quite important for
GgiXNkhRau4-00783-00162879-00162959 them
GgiXNkhRau4-00784-00162960-00163199 uh they had resource endowments that
GgiXNkhRau4-00785-00163200-00163366 allowed them to invest make state
GgiXNkhRau4-00786-00163367-00163487 investments
GgiXNkhRau4-00787-00163488-00163751 um but even though they were able to
GgiXNkhRau4-00788-00163752-00164087 upgrade um successfully uh in
GgiXNkhRau4-00789-00164088-00164407 the logging or plywood industry uh there
GgiXNkhRau4-00790-00164408-00164631 were there was this persistence of lower
GgiXNkhRau4-00791-00164632-00164871 productivity sectors on the at the same
GgiXNkhRau4-00792-00164872-00165014 time next to the
GgiXNkhRau4-00793-00165015-00165247 industrial more industrial sector
GgiXNkhRau4-00794-00165248-00165478 uh so that also brings us to this like
GgiXNkhRau4-00795-00165479-00165647 dual economy that a lot of dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00796-00165648-00165959 theorists observed observed
GgiXNkhRau4-00797-00165960-00166135 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00798-00166136-00166359 and yeah as i mentioned they had these
GgiXNkhRau4-00799-00166360-00166543 resources endowments that made it
GgiXNkhRau4-00800-00166544-00166711 possible for them to make state
GgiXNkhRau4-00801-00166712-00166895 investments sorry they're saying an
GgiXNkhRau4-00802-00166896-00167102 ambulance outside that's not too
GgiXNkhRau4-00803-00167103-00167214 disturbing
GgiXNkhRau4-00804-00167215-00167319 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00805-00167320-00167463 so yeah so some of these external
GgiXNkhRau4-00806-00167464-00167575 constraints were actually relieved
GgiXNkhRau4-00807-00167576-00167751 because of oil revenues so they were
GgiXNkhRau4-00808-00167752-00167975 able to use that uh but also a lot of
GgiXNkhRau4-00809-00167976-00168254 geopolitical support from japan
GgiXNkhRau4-00810-00168255-00168471 uh to finance import substitution
GgiXNkhRau4-00811-00168472-00168647 industrialization so they had like a
GgiXNkhRau4-00812-00168648-00168951 window of production even though in the
GgiXNkhRau4-00813-00168952-00169102 end it wasn't really sustainable and
GgiXNkhRau4-00814-00169103-00169271 they had to go to
GgiXNkhRau4-00815-00169272-00169519 the imf in the 80s
GgiXNkhRau4-00816-00169520-00169702 um so
GgiXNkhRau4-00817-00169703-00169959 this is very different from the way a
GgiXNkhRau4-00818-00169960-00170135 global value chain approach following
GgiXNkhRau4-00819-00170136-00170343 garethy and some mainstream
GgiXNkhRau4-00820-00170344-00170495 uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00821-00170496-00170678 development economists
GgiXNkhRau4-00822-00170679-00170871 who are very often look at the firm
GgiXNkhRau4-00823-00170872-00171078 and like how the firm what kind of uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00824-00171079-00171366 policies the firm um
GgiXNkhRau4-00825-00171367-00171502 carries out
GgiXNkhRau4-00826-00171503-00171654 a dependency approach would take this
GgiXNkhRau4-00827-00171655-00171878 more historical structural
GgiXNkhRau4-00828-00171879-00172038 uh approach which can help us actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00829-00172039-00172263 understand both you know
GgiXNkhRau4-00830-00172264-00172551 dependent development or uh under
GgiXNkhRau4-00831-00172552-00172807 development but also kind of periods of
GgiXNkhRau4-00832-00172808-00173054 more success um
GgiXNkhRau4-00833-00173055-00173151 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00834-00173152-00173271 yeah
GgiXNkhRau4-00835-00173272-00173366 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00836-00173367-00173559 that's very briefly on um south korea
GgiXNkhRau4-00837-00173560-00173735 and indonesia and i know i only have
GgiXNkhRau4-00838-00173736-00173911 about five minutes left so
GgiXNkhRau4-00839-00173912-00174223 i just want to kind of start to wrap up
GgiXNkhRau4-00840-00174224-00174359 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00841-00174360-00174623 so unfashionable okay fine or not
GgiXNkhRau4-00842-00174624-00174799 necessarily unfashionable but uh not
GgiXNkhRau4-00843-00174800-00175111 politically accepted um but i would
GgiXNkhRau4-00844-00175112-00175295 argue that it's not outdated
GgiXNkhRau4-00845-00175296-00175471 um there are these constraints to
GgiXNkhRau4-00846-00175472-00175671 structural transformation and finance in
GgiXNkhRau4-00847-00175672-00175814 the periphery that are poorly understood
GgiXNkhRau4-00848-00175815-00176071 by many economists that i know now you
GgiXNkhRau4-00849-00176072-00176351 know the chilean government is grappling
GgiXNkhRau4-00850-00176352-00176438 with
GgiXNkhRau4-00851-00176439-00176607 um there are these hierarchies of
GgiXNkhRau4-00852-00176608-00176854 production and innovation and finance
GgiXNkhRau4-00853-00176855-00177102 that you know are real
GgiXNkhRau4-00854-00177103-00177359 um we see massive inequalities in the
GgiXNkhRau4-00855-00177360-00177471 world
GgiXNkhRau4-00856-00177472-00177614 which dependency theory takes as a
GgiXNkhRau4-00857-00177615-00177743 starting point so that you know that's
GgiXNkhRau4-00858-00177744-00177883 already a helpful
GgiXNkhRau4-00859-00177884-00178151 approach um
GgiXNkhRau4-00860-00178152-00178343 and as i would argue it you know it you
GgiXNkhRau4-00861-00178344-00178575 can use it to it's not a
GgiXNkhRau4-00862-00178576-00178711 kind of uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00863-00178712-00178959 very deterministic theory as it's often
GgiXNkhRau4-00864-00178960-00179135 stereotyped to be you can use it to
GgiXNkhRau4-00865-00179136-00179271 understand kind of different kinds of
GgiXNkhRau4-00866-00179272-00179407 development
GgiXNkhRau4-00867-00179408-00179799 processes like south korea and indonesia
GgiXNkhRau4-00868-00179800-00179966 key aspects of dependency theory that i
GgiXNkhRau4-00869-00179967-00180399 would argue are acutely relevant
GgiXNkhRau4-00870-00180400-00180551 first of all the structures of the
GgiXNkhRau4-00871-00180552-00180790 global economy is very the way that they
GgiXNkhRau4-00872-00180791-00181031 analyze them is very different from how
GgiXNkhRau4-00873-00181032-00181247 um economists very often see like
GgiXNkhRau4-00874-00181248-00181511 individual units as the main starting
GgiXNkhRau4-00875-00181512-00181678 point so this is like methodological
GgiXNkhRau4-00876-00181679-00181983 individualism of neoclassical economics
GgiXNkhRau4-00877-00181984-00182095 or
GgiXNkhRau4-00878-00182096-00182254 than the nation state instead of looking
GgiXNkhRau4-00879-00182255-00182366 at just the nation state or just the
GgiXNkhRau4-00880-00182367-00182590 individual um dependency theory draws
GgiXNkhRau4-00881-00182591-00182863 our attention to these global structures
GgiXNkhRau4-00882-00182864-00182951 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00883-00182952-00183038 which
GgiXNkhRau4-00884-00183039-00183271 leads to insights into how exploitation
GgiXNkhRau4-00885-00183272-00183487 happens globally and there are lots of
GgiXNkhRau4-00886-00183488-00183735 scholars that are working on this today
GgiXNkhRau4-00887-00183736-00183943 i just put some um
GgiXNkhRau4-00888-00183944-00184135 references on the slide
GgiXNkhRau4-00889-00184136-00184343 uh also colonial legacies remain
GgiXNkhRau4-00890-00184344-00184519 extremely relevant for understanding how
GgiXNkhRau4-00891-00184520-00184687 finance and production operates today
GgiXNkhRau4-00892-00184688-00184838 and there's lots of scholarship on that
GgiXNkhRau4-00893-00184839-00185143 as well then i put some um
GgiXNkhRau4-00894-00185144-00185351 references here as well about how we can
GgiXNkhRau4-00895-00185352-00185519 unders like how finance operates for
GgiXNkhRau4-00896-00185520-00185654 example in ghana some work that i've
GgiXNkhRau4-00897-00185655-00185743 been doing
GgiXNkhRau4-00898-00185744-00185966 actually has uh it's very difficult to
GgiXNkhRau4-00899-00185967-00186135 understand it without understanding how
GgiXNkhRau4-00900-00186136-00186343 um colonial finance and how colonial
GgiXNkhRau4-00901-00186344-00186447 banks
GgiXNkhRau4-00902-00186448-00186614 evolved and how they
GgiXNkhRau4-00903-00186615-00186814 the banks still have some of those
GgiXNkhRau4-00904-00186815-00187159 institutional structures today
GgiXNkhRau4-00905-00187160-00187359 uh finally integrating political economy
GgiXNkhRau4-00906-00187360-00187566 and power into economic analysis is
GgiXNkhRau4-00907-00187567-00187726 something that is key for dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00908-00187727-00188023 theories and also for all heterodox um
GgiXNkhRau4-00909-00188024-00188207 uh economists actually
GgiXNkhRau4-00910-00188208-00188343 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00911-00188344-00188487 and that is important to kind of
GgiXNkhRau4-00912-00188488-00188638 understand the role of like the wall
GgiXNkhRau4-00913-00188639-00188847 street consensus for example and how
GgiXNkhRau4-00914-00188848-00189014 like the imf and the world world bank
GgiXNkhRau4-00915-00189015-00189190 are operating and create certain
GgiXNkhRau4-00916-00189191-00189311 constraints
GgiXNkhRau4-00917-00189312-00189438 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00918-00189439-00189638 and how vaccine inequality for example
GgiXNkhRau4-00919-00189639-00189750 you can't understand all of these things
GgiXNkhRau4-00920-00189751-00190007 without thinking about the role of
GgiXNkhRau4-00921-00190008-00190287 political economy and power
GgiXNkhRau4-00922-00190288-00190407 and
GgiXNkhRau4-00923-00190408-00190623 finally finally uh theorizing from the
GgiXNkhRau4-00924-00190624-00190790 vantage point in the periphery is also
GgiXNkhRau4-00925-00190791-00190959 very important especially for countries
GgiXNkhRau4-00926-00190960-00191247 in the periphery uh especially now that
GgiXNkhRau4-00927-00191248-00191414 a lot of this social science that's
GgiXNkhRau4-00928-00191415-00191607 produced in universities
GgiXNkhRau4-00929-00191608-00191807 is very eurocentric and takes kind of
GgiXNkhRau4-00930-00191808-00192150 europe as a starting point um
GgiXNkhRau4-00931-00192151-00192423 so in that sense it's a good time to go
GgiXNkhRau4-00932-00192424-00192726 and revisit dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00933-00192727-00192847 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00934-00192848-00193023 i don't think i have time to go into so
GgiXNkhRau4-00935-00193024-00193175 much i haven't seen anyone give me a
GgiXNkhRau4-00936-00193176-00193407 time sign yet but i can see on my watch
GgiXNkhRau4-00937-00193408-00193775 that i'm at 30 minutes um i am there are
GgiXNkhRau4-00938-00193776-00194007 some i think
GgiXNkhRau4-00939-00194008-00194343 like i think okay thumbs up okay cool uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00940-00194344-00194511 i do think that there are weaknesses to
GgiXNkhRau4-00941-00194512-00194654 some of dependency theory and there are
GgiXNkhRau4-00942-00194655-00194878 ways that it can be expanded
GgiXNkhRau4-00943-00194879-00195007 so
GgiXNkhRau4-00944-00195008-00195095 um
GgiXNkhRau4-00945-00195096-00195271 i think that you know
GgiXNkhRau4-00946-00195272-00195399 just because it's dependency theory
GgiXNkhRau4-00947-00195400-00195519 doesn't mean it's rigorous you still
GgiXNkhRau4-00948-00195520-00195663 have to be like very careful about how
GgiXNkhRau4-00949-00195664-00195943 you explain things in causality uh to go
GgiXNkhRau4-00950-00195944-00196087 beyond exploring just symptoms of
GgiXNkhRau4-00951-00196088-00196254 dependence to actually like look at what
GgiXNkhRau4-00952-00196255-00196423 are the drivers here what are the
GgiXNkhRau4-00953-00196424-00196623 theoretical explanations
GgiXNkhRau4-00954-00196624-00196814 um one thing that dependency theory is
GgiXNkhRau4-00955-00196815-00197071 often often critiqued for is to neglect
GgiXNkhRau4-00956-00197072-00197238 race and gender
GgiXNkhRau4-00957-00197239-00197431 and their role in
GgiXNkhRau4-00958-00197432-00197614 reproducing dependencies and how
GgiXNkhRau4-00959-00197615-00197878 dependency also impacts race and gender
GgiXNkhRau4-00960-00197879-00198023 there are some scholars that are working
GgiXNkhRau4-00961-00198024-00198263 on trying to expand dependency theory to
GgiXNkhRau4-00962-00198264-00198502 um look at this
GgiXNkhRau4-00963-00198503-00198750 um and also you know in our current
GgiXNkhRau4-00964-00198751-00198895 moment i do think that like talking
GgiXNkhRau4-00965-00198896-00199023 about the environment is also very
GgiXNkhRau4-00966-00199024-00199183 important and i think that some
GgiXNkhRau4-00967-00199184-00199414 dependency theories did consider it in
GgiXNkhRau4-00968-00199415-00199511 them
GgiXNkhRau4-00969-00199512-00199743 it's not the most well-known ones
GgiXNkhRau4-00970-00199744-00199966 um but i think now it's really important
GgiXNkhRau4-00971-00199967-00200159 to understand how you know environmental
GgiXNkhRau4-00972-00200160-00200278 problems
GgiXNkhRau4-00973-00200279-00200454 are hierarchical as well
GgiXNkhRau4-00974-00200455-00200575 and that there are these global
GgiXNkhRau4-00975-00200576-00200766 environmental hierarchies that have
GgiXNkhRau4-00976-00200767-00200919 colonial legacies
GgiXNkhRau4-00977-00200920-00201135 um that were produced by in a colonial
GgiXNkhRau4-00978-00201136-00201359 and imperialist global economy and when
GgiXNkhRau4-00979-00201360-00201535 we think about solutions breed new deal
GgiXNkhRau4-00980-00201536-00201750 or deep growth or whatever it is we need
GgiXNkhRau4-00981-00201751-00201926 to take these inequalities into account
GgiXNkhRau4-00982-00201927-00202126 as well so that is something that we can
GgiXNkhRau4-00983-00202127-00202326 also learn from a dependency
GgiXNkhRau4-00984-00202327-00202559 framework
GgiXNkhRau4-00985-00202560-00202711 so to conclude
GgiXNkhRau4-00986-00202712-00202871 uh if you want to understand global
GgiXNkhRau4-00987-00202872-00203063 inequality and constraints to production
GgiXNkhRau4-00988-00203064-00203263 and finance in the periphery uh
GgiXNkhRau4-00989-00203264-00203519 dependency research program can help
GgiXNkhRau4-00990-00203520-00203750 it's particularly urgent now i think i
GgiXNkhRau4-00991-00203751-00203983 mean it's always urgent but in the wake
GgiXNkhRau4-00992-00203984-00204231 of colbit all these inequalities became
GgiXNkhRau4-00993-00204232-00204526 particularly obvious um
GgiXNkhRau4-00994-00204527-00204814 and uh um therefore i think you know
GgiXNkhRau4-00995-00204815-00205071 it's a it's a good opportune moment to
GgiXNkhRau4-00996-00205071-00205294 try to think differently
GgiXNkhRau4-00997-00205296-00205471 um it's largely been excluded through a
GgiXNkhRau4-00998-00205471-00205646 political process but
GgiXNkhRau4-00999-00205648-00205903 that doesn't mean or you know because
GgiXNkhRau4-01000-00205904-00206031 it's been excluded by a political
GgiXNkhRau4-01001-00206032-00206134 process doesn't mean that it's not
GgiXNkhRau4-01002-00206135-00206271 helpful or that it's not useful or that
GgiXNkhRau4-01003-00206271-00206646 it's not a theoretically strong program
GgiXNkhRau4-01004-00206648-00206758 um
GgiXNkhRau4-01005-00206759-00206894 and then finally there are some
GgiXNkhRau4-01006-00206896-00207086 critiques that i you know any
GgiXNkhRau4-01007-00207087-00207246 research program should take about on
GgiXNkhRau4-01008-00207248-00207423 board critiques and see how it can you
GgiXNkhRau4-01009-00207423-00207590 know strengthen and expand
GgiXNkhRau4-01010-00207591-00207838 um but i think what i tried to do in
GgiXNkhRau4-01011-00207839-00207975 defining the research program was to
GgiXNkhRau4-01012-00207976-00208166 kind of preserve the strengths and see
GgiXNkhRau4-01013-00208167-00208351 what is helpful for us to take forward
GgiXNkhRau4-01014-00208352-00208471 and then
GgiXNkhRau4-01015-00208471-00208727 uh and strengthened and expand and then
GgiXNkhRau4-01016-00208728-00208982 deal with the weaknesses that of course
GgiXNkhRau4-01017-00208983-00209175 would be there in any any theoretical
GgiXNkhRau4-01018-00209176-00209327 tradition
GgiXNkhRau4-01019-00209328-00209519 so thank you very much
GgiXNkhRau4-01020-00209519-00209655 and
GgiXNkhRau4-01021-00209656-00209846 i look forward to the next speaker as
GgiXNkhRau4-01022-00209848-00209958 well
GgiXNkhRau4-01023-00209959-00210191 you can also stay in touch on email or
GgiXNkhRau4-01024-00210192-00210303 twitter
GgiXNkhRau4-01025-00210304-00210671 thank you
GgiXNkhRau4-01026-00210671-00210855 many thanks ingrid
GgiXNkhRau4-01027-00210856-00210951 janice
GgiXNkhRau4-01028-00210952-00211806 now it's your turn
GgiXNkhRau4-01029-00211807-00212087 great uh thank you so much guys and many
GgiXNkhRau4-01030-00212088-00212246 thanks to the organizers for the
GgiXNkhRau4-01031-00212248-00212415 invitation it's a great pleasure and
GgiXNkhRau4-01032-00212416-00212623 honor to participate in this brilliant
GgiXNkhRau4-01033-00212623-00212742 conference
GgiXNkhRau4-01034-00212744-00212903 and what i'm going to do in my
GgiXNkhRau4-01035-00212904-00213151 presentation is to talk about the links
GgiXNkhRau4-01036-00213152-00213494 between finance and climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01037-00213496-00213734 i will do so by referring quickly to
GgiXNkhRau4-01038-00213735-00213879 some recent developments that we have
GgiXNkhRau4-01039-00213880-00214134 seen in climate finance i will try to
GgiXNkhRau4-01040-00214135-00214342 explain these developments from a
GgiXNkhRau4-01041-00214344-00214510 conceptual perspective i will draw
GgiXNkhRau4-01042-00214511-00214710 primarily on two strands of heterodox
GgiXNkhRau4-01043-00214711-00214967 economics ecological economic symposiums
GgiXNkhRau4-01044-00214967-00215263 and economics but i will also refer to
GgiXNkhRau4-01045-00215264-00215471 the wall street concessions that
GgiXNkhRau4-01046-00215471-00215694 include mentioned before very briefly
GgiXNkhRau4-01047-00215696-00215863 and i will explain how we can understand
GgiXNkhRau4-01048-00215864-00216031 the role of finance in the climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01049-00216032-00216310 crisis from from a power perspective
GgiXNkhRau4-01050-00216311-00216510 now at the end i will also try to say a
GgiXNkhRau4-01051-00216511-00216742 few things about how we could develop an
GgiXNkhRau4-01052-00216744-00217094 agenda that focuses on the sociological
GgiXNkhRau4-01053-00217096-00217358 transformation of our economies and why
GgiXNkhRau4-01054-00217359-00217567 it is important to put environmental
GgiXNkhRau4-01055-00217567-00217863 justice at the core of this agenda
GgiXNkhRau4-01056-00217864-00218103 now before i do this i would like to
GgiXNkhRau4-01057-00218104-00218342 refer to some key facts about climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01058-00218344-00218487 change that i think is very important to
GgiXNkhRau4-01059-00218488-00218694 have in our mind and when we are talking
GgiXNkhRau4-01060-00218696-00218887 about the climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01061-00218888-00219191 and the first one is that we we have a
GgiXNkhRau4-01062-00219192-00219494 serious crisis right now and every tone
GgiXNkhRau4-01063-00219496-00219806 of carbon emissions matters whenever we
GgiXNkhRau4-01064-00219807-00220103 produce a little bit of more carbon we
GgiXNkhRau4-01065-00220104-00220398 create a very big problem in the in in
GgiXNkhRau4-01066-00220400-00220639 in our ecosystems now in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01067-00220640-00220815 illustrate that i have two graphs from
GgiXNkhRau4-01068-00220816-00221079 the recent report of the governmental
GgiXNkhRau4-01069-00221080-00221271 panel on climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01070-00221271-00221551 and in in the first graph you can see
GgiXNkhRau4-01071-00221552-00221806 what has happened so far so over the
GgiXNkhRau4-01072-00221807-00221967 last decades
GgiXNkhRau4-01073-00221967-00222191 the fact that we have generated so many
GgiXNkhRau4-01074-00222192-00222527 emissions has led to the increase of
GgiXNkhRau4-01075-00222528-00222782 atmospheric temperature by about one
GgiXNkhRau4-01076-00222783-00222998 degree compared to what was the case two
GgiXNkhRau4-01077-00223000-00223134 centuries ago
GgiXNkhRau4-01078-00223135-00223319 and if you look at the projections of
GgiXNkhRau4-01079-00223319-00223510 ipcc for the future
GgiXNkhRau4-01080-00223511-00223734 we can see that there are scenarios
GgiXNkhRau4-01081-00223735-00223951 whereby we might have three or four
GgiXNkhRau4-01082-00223952-00224206 degrees at the end of the century and if
GgiXNkhRau4-01083-00224207-00224439 we want to avoid that if we want to
GgiXNkhRau4-01084-00224440-00224598 achieve the targets of the paris
GgiXNkhRau4-01085-00224600-00224942 agreement we need to reduce emissions
GgiXNkhRau4-01086-00224944-00225263 very quickly in order to to stay below 2
GgiXNkhRau4-01087-00225264-00225471 or 1.5 degrees
GgiXNkhRau4-01088-00225471-00225694 now if you look at the other graph
GgiXNkhRau4-01089-00225696-00225975 whereby we have the annual emissions of
GgiXNkhRau4-01090-00225976-00226158 carbon dioxide
GgiXNkhRau4-01091-00226159-00226431 the problem is that right now we produce
GgiXNkhRau4-01092-00226432-00226734 at the global level about 40 giga domes
GgiXNkhRau4-01093-00226735-00226887 of emissions
GgiXNkhRau4-01094-00226888-00227158 and in order to achieve the targets of
GgiXNkhRau4-01095-00227159-00227423 paris agreement we need to reduce this
GgiXNkhRau4-01096-00227423-00227655 emissions extremely quickly
GgiXNkhRau4-01097-00227656-00227871 this hasn't happened before
GgiXNkhRau4-01098-00227871-00228071 and it's very clear that in order to do
GgiXNkhRau4-01099-00228071-00228303 that we need to have very radical
GgiXNkhRau4-01100-00228304-00228615 transformation we cannot do this by just
GgiXNkhRau4-01101-00228616-00228798 changing a little bit how capitalism
GgiXNkhRau4-01102-00228800-00229031 works we need to have very significant
GgiXNkhRau4-01103-00229032-00229191 fundamental changes in the way that we
GgiXNkhRau4-01104-00229192-00229406 produce in the way that we consume
GgiXNkhRau4-01105-00229407-00229598 so the first key message from these
GgiXNkhRau4-01106-00229600-00229767 graphs is that
GgiXNkhRau4-01107-00229767-00230015 we cannot continue the way that we have
GgiXNkhRau4-01108-00230016-00230239 produced and consumed so far now the
GgiXNkhRau4-01109-00230240-00230471 other fact is related with climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01110-00230471-00230687 justice and
GgiXNkhRau4-01111-00230688-00230855 in the first session of the conference
GgiXNkhRau4-01112-00230856-00231071 today there was a discussion about that
GgiXNkhRau4-01113-00231071-00231246 so what i would like to emphasize
GgiXNkhRau4-01114-00231248-00231487 is that as we know very well
GgiXNkhRau4-01115-00231488-00231679 the the responsibility for the climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01116-00231680-00231894 crisis rests primarily with the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01117-00231896-00232046 north if we look at the data about
GgiXNkhRau4-01118-00232048-00232310 cumulative greenhouse gas emissions
GgiXNkhRau4-01119-00232311-00232631 about 70 percent of these emissions have
GgiXNkhRau4-01120-00232632-00232791 generated by countries in the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01121-00232792-00232903 north
GgiXNkhRau4-01122-00232904-00233039 now
GgiXNkhRau4-01123-00233040-00233223 the other problem is that the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01124-00233223-00233455 north has generated the crisis but the
GgiXNkhRau4-01125-00233456-00233767 global south is experiencing the
GgiXNkhRau4-01126-00233767-00233998 negative effects of climate change and i
GgiXNkhRau4-01127-00234000-00234167 have here as an example a table that
GgiXNkhRau4-01128-00234167-00234398 summarizes uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01129-00234400-00234679 some effects of climate change on
GgiXNkhRau4-01130-00234680-00234871 countries around the world and you can
GgiXNkhRau4-01131-00234871-00235055 see here that the 10 countries that have
GgiXNkhRau4-01132-00235056-00235342 been affected mostly by climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01133-00235344-00235606 are all countries in the global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01134-00235607-00235839 and we know that this might become goals
GgiXNkhRau4-01135-00235840-00236006 in the coming years
GgiXNkhRau4-01136-00236007-00236342 so we have a very significant issue here
GgiXNkhRau4-01137-00236344-00236558 we have that the crisis has been created
GgiXNkhRau4-01138-00236559-00236823 by the global north and now the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01139-00236823-00236910 south
GgiXNkhRau4-01140-00236911-00237110 is trying to deal with this
GgiXNkhRau4-01141-00237111-00237319 what does it mean it means that
GgiXNkhRau4-01142-00237319-00237479 first of all the global north has the
GgiXNkhRau4-01143-00237480-00237751 responsibility to reduce carbon
GgiXNkhRau4-01144-00237752-00237903 emissions quickly
GgiXNkhRau4-01145-00237904-00238134 it has a responsibility to to change the
GgiXNkhRau4-01146-00238135-00238310 way that
GgiXNkhRau4-01147-00238311-00238567 we gen we produce and consume and the
GgiXNkhRau4-01148-00238567-00238894 global south needs to have the space in
GgiXNkhRau4-01149-00238896-00239110 order to adapt to this new reality
GgiXNkhRau4-01150-00239111-00239287 because the new reality is a reality
GgiXNkhRau4-01151-00239288-00239398 whereby
GgiXNkhRau4-01152-00239400-00239623 climate related events will become more
GgiXNkhRau4-01153-00239623-00239927 severe and more frequent i mean even if
GgiXNkhRau4-01154-00239928-00240287 we avoid passing 1.5 or 2 degrees
GgiXNkhRau4-01155-00240288-00240510 we will still have significant changes
GgiXNkhRau4-01156-00240511-00240646 in climate and this will affect
GgiXNkhRau4-01157-00240648-00240863 countries in the global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01158-00240864-00241015 so this means that these countries need
GgiXNkhRau4-01159-00241016-00241239 to invest more in climate adaptation but
GgiXNkhRau4-01160-00241240-00241510 they also need to to get support in
GgiXNkhRau4-01161-00241511-00241734 order to cover climate related losses
GgiXNkhRau4-01162-00241735-00241927 and damages this is very important
GgiXNkhRau4-01163-00241928-00242127 because right now there is no framework
GgiXNkhRau4-01164-00242128-00242342 that allows this countries to get
GgiXNkhRau4-01165-00242344-00242487 support in order to deal with these
GgiXNkhRau4-01166-00242488-00242646 losses and damages
GgiXNkhRau4-01167-00242648-00242839 so i would like to emphasize uh these
GgiXNkhRau4-01168-00242840-00243006 issues because if we're going to
GgiXNkhRau4-01169-00243007-00243182 understand the role of finance in the
GgiXNkhRau4-01170-00243183-00243398 current crisis we need first of all to
GgiXNkhRau4-01171-00243400-00243630 be very clear on these facts so what i'm
GgiXNkhRau4-01172-00243631-00243910 going to do now is first to draw your
GgiXNkhRau4-01173-00243911-00244079 attention to some recent developments
GgiXNkhRau4-01174-00244080-00244263 that we have seen in particular in steel
GgiXNkhRau4-01175-00244264-00244382 banking
GgiXNkhRau4-01176-00244383-00244623 a few years ago there was no interest
GgiXNkhRau4-01177-00244623-00244855 from central banks in climate change but
GgiXNkhRau4-01178-00244856-00245046 this has changed quite a lot recently
GgiXNkhRau4-01179-00245048-00245263 and i would like to talk about this
GgiXNkhRau4-01180-00245264-00245519 and after i talk about the recent
GgiXNkhRau4-01181-00245519-00245751 developments i would like to focus
GgiXNkhRau4-01182-00245752-00245934 on how we can understand these
GgiXNkhRau4-01183-00245935-00246134 developments and i'm going to compare
GgiXNkhRau4-01184-00246135-00246367 and contrast two different ways of
GgiXNkhRau4-01185-00246367-00246646 thinking about the role of climate or
GgiXNkhRau4-01186-00246648-00246927 finance in the climate crisis and i'm
GgiXNkhRau4-01187-00246928-00247119 going first to describe the dominant
GgiXNkhRau4-01188-00247119-00247342 approach that we can see in policy
GgiXNkhRau4-01189-00247344-00247671 debates which is how we can protect
GgiXNkhRau4-01190-00247671-00247919 finance from climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01191-00247919-00248191 and i will contrast this to the approach
GgiXNkhRau4-01192-00248192-00248479 whereby we need to take action to
GgiXNkhRau4-01193-00248480-00248806 protect climate from finance
GgiXNkhRau4-01194-00248807-00248998 and once i do this i will make some
GgiXNkhRau4-01195-00249000-00249175 links with exhausted consensus i will
GgiXNkhRau4-01196-00249176-00249367 explain this
GgiXNkhRau4-01197-00249367-00249558 this term which has been called by my
GgiXNkhRau4-01198-00249559-00249767 colleague daniela gabor and i will
GgiXNkhRau4-01199-00249767-00249910 emphasize the importance of
GgiXNkhRau4-01200-00249911-00250151 understanding the the political changes
GgiXNkhRau4-01201-00250152-00250294 that we see right now because of the
GgiXNkhRau4-01202-00250296-00250687 wall street consensus and finally i will
GgiXNkhRau4-01203-00250688-00250958 summarize some some quick
GgiXNkhRau4-01204-00250959-00251119 thoughts about how we can achieve
GgiXNkhRau4-01205-00251119-00251375 sociological transformation uh which
GgiXNkhRau4-01206-00251376-00251598 will have environmental justice at its
GgiXNkhRau4-01207-00251600-00251694 core
GgiXNkhRau4-01208-00251696-00251919 now let me say a few things about civil
GgiXNkhRau4-01209-00251919-00252167 banking climate change as i said a few
GgiXNkhRau4-01210-00252167-00252375 years ago there was no discussion about
GgiXNkhRau4-01211-00252376-00252527 the role of steel banks in dealing with
GgiXNkhRau4-01212-00252528-00252823 climate change however five years ago
GgiXNkhRau4-01213-00252823-00252998 the network for greening the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01214-00253000-00253182 system was created
GgiXNkhRau4-01215-00253183-00253406 this is a network of central banks and
GgiXNkhRau4-01216-00253407-00253734 financial supervisors that does research
GgiXNkhRau4-01217-00253735-00253998 on climate change and tries to promote
GgiXNkhRau4-01218-00254000-00254198 the police discussion about what civil
GgiXNkhRau4-01219-00254200-00254342 banks can do in order to deal with the
GgiXNkhRau4-01220-00254344-00254503 climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01221-00254504-00254710 and as a result of this we have seen
GgiXNkhRau4-01222-00254711-00254958 some changes recently i have here two
GgiXNkhRau4-01223-00254959-00255046 examples
GgiXNkhRau4-01224-00255048-00255239 i have the example of the european steel
GgiXNkhRau4-01225-00255240-00255342 bank
GgiXNkhRau4-01226-00255344-00255639 which decided last year to
GgiXNkhRau4-01227-00255640-00255958 announce a climate action plan for the
GgiXNkhRau4-01228-00255959-00256223 period that did the end of 2024
GgiXNkhRau4-01229-00256223-00256310 and
GgiXNkhRau4-01230-00256311-00256598 this climate action plan has primarily
GgiXNkhRau4-01231-00256600-00256863 as a name to to to protect the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01232-00256864-00257015 system from climate change i'm going to
GgiXNkhRau4-01233-00257016-00257287 explain this a little bit more in a bit
GgiXNkhRau4-01234-00257288-00257471 and another development that is
GgiXNkhRau4-01235-00257471-00257791 interesting is that in the uk last year
GgiXNkhRau4-01236-00257792-00258127 we had the government decided to modify
GgiXNkhRau4-01237-00258128-00258310 the mandate of the bank of england in
GgiXNkhRau4-01238-00258311-00258487 order to incorporate environmental
GgiXNkhRau4-01239-00258488-00258694 sustainability and what the bank of
GgiXNkhRau4-01240-00258696-00258951 england did as a response to that
GgiXNkhRau4-01241-00258952-00259263 was to develop an approach that would
GgiXNkhRau4-01242-00259264-00259551 allow it to green its corporate
GgiXNkhRau4-01243-00259552-00259767 quantitative easy program
GgiXNkhRau4-01244-00259767-00259894 so this is something that we haven't
GgiXNkhRau4-01245-00259896-00260127 seen before in this little bank in the
GgiXNkhRau4-01246-00260128-00260294 global north and i think it's a very
GgiXNkhRau4-01247-00260296-00260471 distant development i'm going to refer
GgiXNkhRau4-01248-00260471-00260791 to this in a bit as well now uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01249-00260792-00261006 despite the fact that
GgiXNkhRau4-01250-00261007-00261223 in the global north the
GgiXNkhRau4-01251-00261223-00261415 the main way through which central banks
GgiXNkhRau4-01252-00261416-00261663 try to understand climate change is by
GgiXNkhRau4-01253-00261664-00261830 focusing on how they can protect the
GgiXNkhRau4-01254-00261831-00262063 financial system from climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01255-00262064-00262279 if you look at countries in the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01256-00262280-00262487 south and if you look at china you will
GgiXNkhRau4-01257-00262488-00262671 see that the approach there is is
GgiXNkhRau4-01258-00262672-00262887 different and we have seen that some
GgiXNkhRau4-01259-00262888-00263095 central banks have tried to use their
GgiXNkhRau4-01260-00263096-00263375 tools in order to promote directly green
GgiXNkhRau4-01261-00263376-00263606 activities can contribute to the redux
GgiXNkhRau4-01262-00263607-00263782 of emissions so if you look at the
GgiXNkhRau4-01263-00263783-00263943 people's bank of china you will see that
GgiXNkhRau4-01264-00263944-00264127 they have taken taken a lot of
GgiXNkhRau4-01265-00264128-00264310 initiatives in order to promote specific
GgiXNkhRau4-01266-00264311-00264423 sectors
GgiXNkhRau4-01267-00264424-00264655 that can increase the use of renewables
GgiXNkhRau4-01268-00264656-00264839 and increase energy efficiency
GgiXNkhRau4-01269-00264840-00265087 if you look at the baccalaureates bank
GgiXNkhRau4-01270-00265088-00265334 this this is a bank that has taken a lot
GgiXNkhRau4-01271-00265335-00265615 of action in order to directly
GgiXNkhRau4-01272-00265616-00265919 promote green finance so they use green
GgiXNkhRau4-01273-00265920-00266143 credit controls which are not used in
GgiXNkhRau4-01274-00266144-00266351 the global in most global north counties
GgiXNkhRau4-01275-00266352-00266551 right now uh it's a kind of an
GgiXNkhRau4-01276-00266552-00266734 industrial policy that tries to support
GgiXNkhRau4-01277-00266735-00266982 the specific sectors that can
GgiXNkhRau4-01278-00266983-00267079 help
GgiXNkhRau4-01279-00267080-00267271 towards the reduction of emissions and
GgiXNkhRau4-01280-00267272-00267382 then you look
GgiXNkhRau4-01281-00267383-00267623 at the central bank of brazil you will
GgiXNkhRau4-01282-00267624-00267951 see that they also try now to
GgiXNkhRau4-01283-00267952-00268167 make some changes in the way that they
GgiXNkhRau4-01284-00268168-00268358 understand financial supervision and
GgiXNkhRau4-01285-00268359-00268606 they have asked banks to be very clear
GgiXNkhRau4-01286-00268607-00268782 on the environmental and social risks
GgiXNkhRau4-01287-00268783-00269063 that are related with with their loans
GgiXNkhRau4-01288-00269064-00269303 so if we want to summarize with what we
GgiXNkhRau4-01289-00269304-00269519 have seen over the last five years or so
GgiXNkhRau4-01290-00269520-00269767 we can say that there is an agreement on
GgiXNkhRau4-01291-00269768-00269999 the fact that citizen banks need to
GgiXNkhRau4-01292-00270000-00270215 understand and consider climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01293-00270216-00270463 they need to take some action
GgiXNkhRau4-01294-00270464-00270703 however there is no agreement on how
GgiXNkhRau4-01295-00270704-00271039 still bank should address climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01296-00271040-00271223 and this is what i would like now to
GgiXNkhRau4-01297-00271224-00271406 discuss a little bit more so i'm going
GgiXNkhRau4-01298-00271407-00271623 to present two different ways of
GgiXNkhRau4-01299-00271624-00271823 thinking about the role of central banks
GgiXNkhRau4-01300-00271824-00272055 in the climate crisis and i will start
GgiXNkhRau4-01301-00272056-00272230 with the dominant
GgiXNkhRau4-01302-00272231-00272479 way of thinking in this area
GgiXNkhRau4-01303-00272480-00272799 i call this the risk exposure approach
GgiXNkhRau4-01304-00272800-00273047 because basically this approach tries to
GgiXNkhRau4-01305-00273048-00273255 protect the financial system from
GgiXNkhRau4-01306-00273256-00273391 climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01307-00273392-00273639 and the idea here is that climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01308-00273640-00273951 creates two types of financial risks
GgiXNkhRau4-01309-00273952-00274175 the first type of financial risk is the
GgiXNkhRau4-01310-00274176-00274439 soyuz the so-called transition risk and
GgiXNkhRau4-01311-00274440-00274695 the other one is the physical risk
GgiXNkhRau4-01312-00274696-00274863 now what is the idea behind the
GgiXNkhRau4-01313-00274864-00275023 transition risk just to give you an
GgiXNkhRau4-01314-00275024-00275143 example
GgiXNkhRau4-01315-00275144-00275343 uh the financial system
GgiXNkhRau4-01316-00275344-00275582 has some concerns about the fact that in
GgiXNkhRau4-01317-00275583-00275806 the coming years we might have some
GgiXNkhRau4-01318-00275807-00276039 climate policies like for instance an
GgiXNkhRau4-01319-00276040-00276239 increase in carbon prices
GgiXNkhRau4-01320-00276240-00276487 that is going to penalize some fossil
GgiXNkhRau4-01321-00276488-00276663 fuel companies
GgiXNkhRau4-01322-00276664-00276910 as i will show you later the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01323-00276911-00277143 system has provided a lot of loans to
GgiXNkhRau4-01324-00277144-00277382 fossil fuel companies so if we have
GgiXNkhRau4-01325-00277383-00277606 policies that penalize fossil fuel
GgiXNkhRau4-01326-00277607-00277727 companies
GgiXNkhRau4-01327-00277728-00277903 the financial position of these fossil
GgiXNkhRau4-01328-00277904-00278175 fuel companies probably will deteriorate
GgiXNkhRau4-01329-00278176-00278430 and then those banks that have provided
GgiXNkhRau4-01330-00278431-00278606 money to these companies
GgiXNkhRau4-01331-00278607-00278815 might also experience some defaults for
GgiXNkhRau4-01332-00278816-00279023 instance so these are the transition
GgiXNkhRau4-01333-00279024-00279151 risks
GgiXNkhRau4-01334-00279152-00279358 these are the financial risks that stem
GgiXNkhRau4-01335-00279359-00279510 from the transition to a low carbon
GgiXNkhRau4-01336-00279511-00279639 economy
GgiXNkhRau4-01337-00279640-00279927 at the same time we have that
GgiXNkhRau4-01338-00279928-00280110 the financial system might experience
GgiXNkhRau4-01339-00280111-00280295 some physical risks and the physical
GgiXNkhRau4-01340-00280296-00280551 risks refer to the fact that we might
GgiXNkhRau4-01341-00280552-00280734 have more climate-related events that
GgiXNkhRau4-01342-00280735-00280943 are going to destroy properties of
GgiXNkhRau4-01343-00280944-00281279 people of companies and this might also
GgiXNkhRau4-01344-00281280-00281503 lead to higher defaults and again the
GgiXNkhRau4-01345-00281504-00281703 financial system might be exposed to
GgiXNkhRau4-01346-00281704-00281934 specific loans that will be affected by
GgiXNkhRau4-01347-00281935-00282158 these physical events
GgiXNkhRau4-01348-00282159-00282391 so what we see is that
GgiXNkhRau4-01349-00282392-00282671 if you look for instance at blackrock jp
GgiXNkhRau4-01350-00282672-00282934 morgan the big banks but also if you
GgiXNkhRau4-01351-00282935-00283167 look at the civil banking discussions
GgiXNkhRau4-01352-00283168-00283367 you will see that everyone now is paying
GgiXNkhRau4-01353-00283368-00283575 attention to these risks
GgiXNkhRau4-01354-00283576-00283863 and the problem here is that
GgiXNkhRau4-01355-00283864-00284015 this these risks
GgiXNkhRau4-01356-00284016-00284167 might be
GgiXNkhRau4-01357-00284168-00284351 important from a financial perspective
GgiXNkhRau4-01358-00284352-00284582 but the way that the financial system is
GgiXNkhRau4-01359-00284583-00284847 going to react to these risks can create
GgiXNkhRau4-01360-00284848-00285054 problems especially to countries in the
GgiXNkhRau4-01361-00285055-00285319 global south and just to give you an
GgiXNkhRau4-01362-00285320-00285430 example
GgiXNkhRau4-01363-00285431-00285639 if we have that
GgiXNkhRau4-01364-00285640-00285782 at some point
GgiXNkhRau4-01365-00285783-00286006 there is this consideration by creating
GgiXNkhRau4-01366-00286007-00286271 rating agencies that specific countries
GgiXNkhRau4-01367-00286272-00286503 in the global south are suffering from
GgiXNkhRau4-01368-00286504-00286743 climate change and therefore are more
GgiXNkhRau4-01369-00286744-00286999 risky from a financial perspective what
GgiXNkhRau4-01370-00287000-00287158 we are going to see in the in the next
GgiXNkhRau4-01371-00287159-00287415 years will be and downgrade of of many
GgiXNkhRau4-01372-00287416-00287567 countries in the global south because of
GgiXNkhRau4-01373-00287568-00287775 climate considerations and we know that
GgiXNkhRau4-01374-00287776-00287919 this can uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01375-00287920-00288110 lead can lead to candid some very
GgiXNkhRau4-01376-00288111-00288295 significant crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01377-00288296-00288503 now another aspect of
GgiXNkhRau4-01378-00288504-00288895 this risk exposure approach is that
GgiXNkhRau4-01379-00288896-00289158 we need to have actions from civil banks
GgiXNkhRau4-01380-00289159-00289375 that are in line with the support market
GgiXNkhRau4-01381-00289376-00289615 neutrality principle and this is a
GgiXNkhRau4-01382-00289616-00289799 principle that has been used
GgiXNkhRau4-01383-00289800-00289999 in particular in central banks in the
GgiXNkhRau4-01384-00290000-00290239 global sorry in the global north and the
GgiXNkhRau4-01385-00290240-00290471 idea is that whenever banks try to
GgiXNkhRau4-01386-00290472-00290799 intervene they need to to not distort
GgiXNkhRau4-01387-00290800-00291039 the markets uh for example when they
GgiXNkhRau4-01388-00291040-00291375 decide to buy some bonds from
GgiXNkhRau4-01389-00291376-00291606 from the corporate sector
GgiXNkhRau4-01390-00291607-00291823 according to this principle is necessary
GgiXNkhRau4-01391-00291824-00292167 not to change the way that the sectors
GgiXNkhRau4-01392-00292168-00292439 are represented in the financial markets
GgiXNkhRau4-01393-00292440-00292639 and this goes back to this idea that we
GgiXNkhRau4-01394-00292640-00292854 don't want to have industry policy we're
GgiXNkhRau4-01395-00292855-00292982 going to have central banks that are
GgiXNkhRau4-01396-00292983-00293167 neutral of course in reality central
GgiXNkhRau4-01397-00293168-00293343 banks are not neutral
GgiXNkhRau4-01398-00293344-00293606 but they use this principle in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01399-00293607-00293799 to organize their policies in a very
GgiXNkhRau4-01400-00293800-00293927 specific way
GgiXNkhRau4-01401-00293928-00294151 which is very bad for the environment as
GgiXNkhRau4-01402-00294152-00294439 i will explain later now if we follow
GgiXNkhRau4-01403-00294440-00294630 this approach what does it mean in
GgiXNkhRau4-01404-00294631-00294782 practice
GgiXNkhRau4-01405-00294783-00294919 the current
GgiXNkhRau4-01406-00294920-00295095 policies that are promoted by civil
GgiXNkhRau4-01407-00295096-00295334 banks and financial supervisors include
GgiXNkhRau4-01408-00295335-00295630 for instance this idea of climate stress
GgiXNkhRau4-01409-00295631-00295999 tests so sudden banks now try to conduct
GgiXNkhRau4-01410-00296000-00296215 stress tests the idea of stress tests is
GgiXNkhRau4-01411-00296216-00296310 that
GgiXNkhRau4-01412-00296311-00296551 they develop scenarios whereby they can
GgiXNkhRau4-01413-00296552-00296863 see how much the banking system can
GgiXNkhRau4-01414-00296864-00297071 address the financial crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01415-00297072-00297247 and now what they're going to do is to
GgiXNkhRau4-01416-00297248-00297439 incorporate the transition and the
GgiXNkhRau4-01417-00297440-00297703 physical climate risks into these stress
GgiXNkhRau4-01418-00297704-00297879 testing exercises
GgiXNkhRau4-01419-00297880-00298095 uh now the problem with that is that
GgiXNkhRau4-01420-00298096-00298358 again the emphasis is on how to protect
GgiXNkhRau4-01421-00298359-00298654 the financial system from climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01422-00298655-00298839 not to understand what role the
GgiXNkhRau4-01423-00298840-00299071 financial system plays in creating the
GgiXNkhRau4-01424-00299072-00299223 climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01425-00299224-00299430 another idea that is
GgiXNkhRau4-01426-00299431-00299647 discussed quite a lot right now is how
GgiXNkhRau4-01427-00299648-00299854 to change financial regulation in order
GgiXNkhRau4-01428-00299855-00300119 to cooperate climate risks and again the
GgiXNkhRau4-01429-00300120-00300319 idea is how to have a financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01430-00300320-00300487 regulation that protects the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01431-00300488-00300719 system from from climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01432-00300720-00300982 so what are over all the problems with
GgiXNkhRau4-01433-00300983-00301239 this approach i have summarized this on
GgiXNkhRau4-01434-00301240-00301423 the slide so first of all
GgiXNkhRau4-01435-00301424-00301719 we have that there is no recognition of
GgiXNkhRau4-01436-00301720-00301871 the responsibility of the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01437-00301872-00301982 system
GgiXNkhRau4-01438-00301983-00302143 and now
GgiXNkhRau4-01439-00302144-00302382 one way to talk about this is by using
GgiXNkhRau4-01440-00302383-00302758 this concept of double materiality
GgiXNkhRau4-01441-00302759-00302951 the concept of that double materiality
GgiXNkhRau4-01442-00302952-00303158 refers to this idea that
GgiXNkhRau4-01443-00303159-00303367 the climate the climate crisis can
GgiXNkhRau4-01444-00303368-00303558 affect of course the financial system
GgiXNkhRau4-01445-00303559-00303799 but the financial system also affects
GgiXNkhRau4-01446-00303800-00304143 the climate crisis so we have this uh in
GgiXNkhRau4-01447-00304144-00304327 the relationship which we need to take
GgiXNkhRau4-01448-00304328-00304463 into account when we are talking about
GgiXNkhRau4-01449-00304464-00304630 the role of finance
GgiXNkhRau4-01450-00304631-00304910 second as i explained before a problem
GgiXNkhRau4-01451-00304911-00305303 is that if now the big banks the central
GgiXNkhRau4-01452-00305304-00305447 banks around the world and financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01453-00305448-00305727 supervisors try to promote this idea
GgiXNkhRau4-01454-00305728-00305903 that the financial systems protect
GgiXNkhRau4-01455-00305904-00306095 itself from
GgiXNkhRau4-01456-00306096-00306319 the effects of climate change then they
GgiXNkhRau4-01457-00306320-00306695 will stop providing finance to those
GgiXNkhRau4-01458-00306696-00306879 countries to those
GgiXNkhRau4-01459-00306880-00307079 small and medium enterprises and those
GgiXNkhRau4-01460-00307080-00307254 people who need finance sometimes in
GgiXNkhRau4-01461-00307255-00307471 order to adjust to climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01462-00307472-00307615 and at the end of the day there is a
GgiXNkhRau4-01463-00307616-00307863 problem because this accessory based
GgiXNkhRau4-01464-00307864-00308079 climate injustice because we have the
GgiXNkhRau4-01465-00308080-00308206 financial system that has a
GgiXNkhRau4-01466-00308207-00308454 responsibility for the crisis and now
GgiXNkhRau4-01467-00308455-00308687 tries to protect itself from itself from
GgiXNkhRau4-01468-00308688-00308934 the crisis that it has created and by
GgiXNkhRau4-01469-00308935-00309351 doing so it it leads to more injustice
GgiXNkhRau4-01470-00309352-00309447 now
GgiXNkhRau4-01471-00309448-00309710 a different way to look at the role of
GgiXNkhRau4-01472-00309711-00309982 finance is as i said before
GgiXNkhRau4-01473-00309983-00310215 to understand how climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01474-00310216-00310439 has been exacerbated by the way that the
GgiXNkhRau4-01475-00310440-00310647 finance works and this is very important
GgiXNkhRau4-01476-00310648-00310847 because we have
GgiXNkhRau4-01477-00310848-00310982 right now a capitalist system that
GgiXNkhRau4-01478-00310983-00311223 relies so much on finance and i have
GgiXNkhRau4-01479-00311224-00311519 here a graph uh which shows for instance
GgiXNkhRau4-01480-00311520-00311599 the
GgiXNkhRau4-01481-00311600-00311815 the negative contribution of some very
GgiXNkhRau4-01482-00311816-00312119 big global banks to the climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01483-00312120-00312423 so many of these banks like jb morgan
GgiXNkhRau4-01484-00312424-00312775 bank of america barclays they try
GgiXNkhRau4-01485-00312776-00313087 to promote themselves as banks that care
GgiXNkhRau4-01486-00313088-00313279 about the environment and when they do
GgiXNkhRau4-01487-00313280-00313463 so basically they talk about some green
GgiXNkhRau4-01488-00313464-00313647 initiatives that they take but they
GgiXNkhRau4-01489-00313648-00313823 don't want to talk about this figure
GgiXNkhRau4-01490-00313824-00314023 they don't want to talk about the fact
GgiXNkhRau4-01491-00314024-00314303 that they have supported the fossil fuel
GgiXNkhRau4-01492-00314304-00314527 sector so much and these are data that
GgiXNkhRau4-01493-00314528-00314775 refer only to the last years but if you
GgiXNkhRau4-01494-00314776-00314967 look at the past it's very clear that
GgiXNkhRau4-01495-00314968-00315127 there's a very strong link between these
GgiXNkhRau4-01496-00315128-00315343 banks and the positive share sector
GgiXNkhRau4-01497-00315344-00315503 so uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01498-00315504-00315727 if we use this approach that i call the
GgiXNkhRau4-01499-00315728-00315919 systemic risk approach we need to
GgiXNkhRau4-01500-00315920-00316030 understand
GgiXNkhRau4-01501-00316031-00316167 the first of all the way that the
GgiXNkhRau4-01502-00316168-00316382 economy works as part of the of the
GgiXNkhRau4-01503-00316383-00316551 broader ecosystem this is in line with
GgiXNkhRau4-01504-00316552-00316767 the tradition of ecological economics
GgiXNkhRau4-01505-00316768-00316958 and when we are talking about the
GgiXNkhRau4-01506-00316959-00317182 financial system we need to understand
GgiXNkhRau4-01507-00317183-00317351 the relationships that the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01508-00317352-00317551 system has with the society with the
GgiXNkhRau4-01509-00317552-00317791 political system with the macroeconomy
GgiXNkhRau4-01510-00317792-00318023 we cannot just focus on the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01511-00318024-00318175 system and start and
GgiXNkhRau4-01512-00318176-00318454 view this in isolation so by having a
GgiXNkhRau4-01513-00318455-00318671 more systemic way of understanding the
GgiXNkhRau4-01514-00318672-00318830 role of the of the financial system in
GgiXNkhRau4-01515-00318831-00319087 the climate crisis we need to first of
GgiXNkhRau4-01516-00319088-00319287 all to emphasize how we can transform
GgiXNkhRau4-01517-00319288-00319527 finance in order to help addressing the
GgiXNkhRau4-01518-00319528-00319663 climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01519-00319664-00319927 and we need first to emphasize that all
GgiXNkhRau4-01520-00319928-00320110 of the private financial institutions
GgiXNkhRau4-01521-00320111-00320263 have played in supporting dirty
GgiXNkhRau4-01522-00320264-00320519 activities as this graph shows for
GgiXNkhRau4-01523-00320520-00320815 example but we also need to talk about
GgiXNkhRau4-01524-00320816-00321110 the implications of the policies of
GgiXNkhRau4-01525-00321111-00321415 several banks and here i have a graph
GgiXNkhRau4-01526-00321416-00321687 which is from a report that we
GgiXNkhRau4-01527-00321688-00321903 wrote with greenpeace a couple of years
GgiXNkhRau4-01528-00321904-00322215 ago and it shows the implications of the
GgiXNkhRau4-01529-00322216-00322391 corporate quantitative easing program of
GgiXNkhRau4-01530-00322392-00322543 the ecb
GgiXNkhRau4-01531-00322544-00322806 when we have a program that basically
GgiXNkhRau4-01532-00322807-00323030 relies on market neutrality
GgiXNkhRau4-01533-00323031-00323319 so what the graph shows is that if we
GgiXNkhRau4-01534-00323320-00323582 look at the representation of industrial
GgiXNkhRau4-01535-00323583-00323910 sectors in the program and this is shown
GgiXNkhRau4-01536-00323911-00324134 by the
GgiXNkhRau4-01537-00324135-00324271 the pink
GgiXNkhRau4-01538-00324272-00324606 bars here what we have is that this
GgiXNkhRau4-01539-00324607-00324895 representation is much higher compared
GgiXNkhRau4-01540-00324896-00325095 to the contribution that these carbon
GgiXNkhRau4-01541-00325096-00325327 index sectors have to euro-area
GgiXNkhRau4-01542-00325328-00325447 employment
GgiXNkhRau4-01543-00325448-00325639 but also much higher compared to the
GgiXNkhRau4-01544-00325640-00325895 contribution that these sectors have to
GgiXNkhRau4-01545-00325896-00326151 the euro area gross value added so by
GgiXNkhRau4-01546-00326152-00326295 following the market neutrality
GgiXNkhRau4-01547-00326296-00326495 principle at the end of the day what the
GgiXNkhRau4-01548-00326496-00326743 ecb has done is that it has supported
GgiXNkhRau4-01549-00326744-00327015 more the carbon invasive sectors that
GgiXNkhRau4-01550-00327016-00327295 have a better access to the bond
GgiXNkhRau4-01551-00327296-00327447 to the bond market
GgiXNkhRau4-01552-00327448-00327758 and contribute to the climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01553-00327759-00328095 now if we if we use this approach that
GgiXNkhRau4-01554-00328096-00328334 emphasizes the the importance of
GgiXNkhRau4-01555-00328335-00328575 protecting climate change from finance
GgiXNkhRau4-01556-00328576-00328678 the first thing that we need to
GgiXNkhRau4-01557-00328679-00328919 highlight is that several banks need now
GgiXNkhRau4-01558-00328920-00329254 to focus on carbon neutrality and not to
GgiXNkhRau4-01559-00329255-00329430 on market neutrality
GgiXNkhRau4-01560-00329431-00329719 they also need to er to take actions
GgiXNkhRau4-01561-00329720-00329982 that would allow us to
GgiXNkhRau4-01562-00329983-00330167 to reduce the missiles quickly but also
GgiXNkhRau4-01563-00330168-00330391 to do that in a way that is just and i'm
GgiXNkhRau4-01564-00330392-00330567 going to to briefly talk about this in a
GgiXNkhRau4-01565-00330568-00330639 bit
GgiXNkhRau4-01566-00330640-00330767 now the other thing that is very
GgiXNkhRau4-01567-00330768-00330958 important is that when we use this
GgiXNkhRau4-01568-00330959-00331063 approach
GgiXNkhRau4-01569-00331064-00331143 uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01570-00331144-00331334 of course we need to emphasize that
GgiXNkhRau4-01571-00331335-00331591 there are so many other
GgiXNkhRau4-01572-00331592-00331734 aspects of the system that have to
GgiXNkhRau4-01573-00331735-00331991 change so civil banks cannot save the
GgiXNkhRau4-01574-00331992-00332310 planet but we cannot just say that we
GgiXNkhRau4-01575-00332311-00332647 can have other fiscal policies uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01576-00332648-00332871 industrial policies distributional
GgiXNkhRau4-01577-00332872-00333054 policies consumption policies and still
GgiXNkhRau4-01578-00333055-00333215 banks will not do anything in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01579-00333216-00333399 address the crisis they need to be to be
GgiXNkhRau4-01580-00333400-00333591 part of the solution
GgiXNkhRau4-01581-00333592-00333823 and when we are talking about the the
GgiXNkhRau4-01582-00333824-00334054 role of civil banks uh based on this
GgiXNkhRau4-01583-00334055-00334391 approach uh we need for instance to when
GgiXNkhRau4-01584-00334392-00334606 we have quantitative programs to exclude
GgiXNkhRau4-01585-00334607-00334839 polluting companies when central banks
GgiXNkhRau4-01586-00334840-00335103 provide loans to to banks they need to
GgiXNkhRau4-01587-00335104-00335358 take into account climate criteria and
GgiXNkhRau4-01588-00335359-00335654 also this is very important when banks
GgiXNkhRau4-01589-00335655-00335951 decide to provide loans to dirty
GgiXNkhRau4-01590-00335952-00336151 companies they need to be penalized for
GgiXNkhRau4-01591-00336152-00336295 that
GgiXNkhRau4-01592-00336296-00336551 and i have here an example of how we
GgiXNkhRau4-01593-00336552-00336806 could decarbonize a specific aspect of
GgiXNkhRau4-01594-00336807-00337006 the european little bank
GgiXNkhRau4-01595-00337007-00337223 and the reason why i'm referring to this
GgiXNkhRau4-01596-00337224-00337487 example is to say that this is not just
GgiXNkhRau4-01597-00337488-00337775 theoretical ideas we we have uh the
GgiXNkhRau4-01598-00337776-00338030 tools to do this right now because in
GgiXNkhRau4-01599-00338031-00338230 many cases little banks are used as an
GgiXNkhRau4-01600-00338231-00338423 excuse that they don't know how exactly
GgiXNkhRau4-01601-00338424-00338615 to take climate change into account and
GgiXNkhRau4-01602-00338616-00338799 they postpone decisions
GgiXNkhRau4-01603-00338800-00338943 so what we did
GgiXNkhRau4-01604-00338944-00339239 uh with grip is last year was to try to
GgiXNkhRau4-01605-00339240-00339358 develop
GgiXNkhRau4-01606-00339359-00339534 an approach that would allow us to
GgiXNkhRau4-01607-00339535-00339854 decarbonize a very significant aspect of
GgiXNkhRau4-01608-00339855-00339934 the
GgiXNkhRau4-01609-00339935-00340110 euro system which is the collateral
GgiXNkhRau4-01610-00340111-00340230 framework
GgiXNkhRau4-01611-00340231-00340471 very briefly why is collateral framework
GgiXNkhRau4-01612-00340472-00340695 important just to give you an example
GgiXNkhRau4-01613-00340696-00340975 when we had the debt crisis in greece
GgiXNkhRau4-01614-00340976-00341151 one of the problems of the banking
GgiXNkhRau4-01615-00341152-00341463 system in greece was that the ecb
GgiXNkhRau4-01616-00341464-00341806 didn't want to accept the public bonds
GgiXNkhRau4-01617-00341807-00342030 of the greek government as a collateral
GgiXNkhRau4-01618-00342031-00342223 which means that they didn't want to
GgiXNkhRau4-01619-00342224-00342430 provide liquidity to commercial banks in
GgiXNkhRau4-01620-00342431-00342654 greece because they they thought that
GgiXNkhRau4-01621-00342655-00342806 they're going to say
GgiXNkhRau4-01622-00342807-00342910 that the
GgiXNkhRau4-01623-00342911-00343110 collateral that refers to the public
GgiXNkhRau4-01624-00343111-00343343 bonds of greece cannot be accepted this
GgiXNkhRau4-01625-00343344-00343543 was a political decision that didn't
GgiXNkhRau4-01626-00343544-00343678 allow the banking system to work
GgiXNkhRau4-01627-00343679-00343823 properly in greece
GgiXNkhRau4-01628-00343824-00344006 now uh right now if you look at the
GgiXNkhRau4-01629-00344007-00344215 collateral framework you will see that
GgiXNkhRau4-01630-00344216-00344487 it is possibly for commercial banks to
GgiXNkhRau4-01631-00344488-00344782 use securities that refer to fossil fuel
GgiXNkhRau4-01632-00344783-00344958 companies in order to get access to
GgiXNkhRau4-01633-00344959-00345175 liquidity and this means that at the end
GgiXNkhRau4-01634-00345176-00345471 of the day the ecb supports the the
GgiXNkhRau4-01635-00345472-00345751 generation of more emissions and what we
GgiXNkhRau4-01636-00345752-00345958 try to do in this report uh i'm not
GgiXNkhRau4-01637-00345959-00346158 going to describe this in detail is to
GgiXNkhRau4-01638-00346159-00346382 show that there is a way to exclude all
GgiXNkhRau4-01639-00346383-00346527 these bonds that contribute to the
GgiXNkhRau4-01640-00346528-00346767 climate crisis and include other bonds
GgiXNkhRau4-01641-00346768-00346847 that
GgiXNkhRau4-01642-00346848-00347054 are more environmentally friendly and
GgiXNkhRau4-01643-00347055-00347287 contribute to the reduction of emissions
GgiXNkhRau4-01644-00347288-00347478 and it's possible to do this right now
GgiXNkhRau4-01645-00347479-00347695 we don't have to wait until we have more
GgiXNkhRau4-01646-00347696-00347975 data or until we have
GgiXNkhRau4-01647-00347976-00348182 more information about uh about these
GgiXNkhRau4-01648-00348183-00348303 companies
GgiXNkhRau4-01649-00348304-00348510 now uh let me turn to the wall street
GgiXNkhRau4-01650-00348511-00348878 consensus uh this is a term that uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01651-00348879-00349047 daniela gabriel has used in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01652-00349048-00349254 explain the new concessions that we are
GgiXNkhRau4-01653-00349255-00349503 seeing right now in development finance
GgiXNkhRau4-01654-00349504-00349671 and this consensus has a lot of
GgiXNkhRau4-01655-00349672-00349895 implications for climate change
GgiXNkhRau4-01656-00349896-00349999 why
GgiXNkhRau4-01657-00350000-00350295 first of all uh in order to make the
GgiXNkhRau4-01658-00350296-00350487 connection with what i said before if we
GgiXNkhRau4-01659-00350488-00350615 look if we look at the wall street
GgiXNkhRau4-01660-00350616-00350791 consensus of course
GgiXNkhRau4-01661-00350792-00351095 this concession supports the idea that
GgiXNkhRau4-01662-00351096-00351271 we need to protect the financial system
GgiXNkhRau4-01663-00351272-00351487 from climate risks because the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01664-00351488-00351687 system wants to find ways to protect
GgiXNkhRau4-01665-00351688-00351878 from from from these risks but at the
GgiXNkhRau4-01666-00351879-00351999 same time
GgiXNkhRau4-01667-00352000-00352254 this consensus is trying to do something
GgiXNkhRau4-01668-00352255-00352382 more which is
GgiXNkhRau4-01669-00352383-00352591 to increase the returns
GgiXNkhRau4-01670-00352592-00352823 primarily from for global north
GgiXNkhRau4-01671-00352824-00353063 investors because of the climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01672-00353064-00353247 so it basically tries to exploit the
GgiXNkhRau4-01673-00353248-00353439 crisis in order to increase the
GgiXNkhRau4-01674-00353440-00353703 profitability of financial institutions
GgiXNkhRau4-01675-00353704-00353863 and this is an agenda that has been
GgiXNkhRau4-01676-00353864-00354103 promoted by the world bank so if you
GgiXNkhRau4-01677-00354104-00354303 look at the documents about the
GgiXNkhRau4-01678-00354304-00354519 maximizing finance for development you
GgiXNkhRau4-01679-00354520-00354710 will see that that what the world bank
GgiXNkhRau4-01680-00354711-00354934 is trying to do is basically to to
GgiXNkhRau4-01681-00354935-00355223 support this idea that we can deal with
GgiXNkhRau4-01682-00355224-00355519 development if we allow financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01683-00355520-00355775 investors from the global north to go to
GgiXNkhRau4-01684-00355776-00356039 the global south and invest in specific
GgiXNkhRau4-01685-00356040-00356167 projects that are important for
GgiXNkhRau4-01686-00356168-00356367 development and now
GgiXNkhRau4-01687-00356368-00356558 because of the climate crisis they also
GgiXNkhRau4-01688-00356559-00356751 say that we can use this approach in
GgiXNkhRau4-01689-00356752-00357047 order to increase climate investment in
GgiXNkhRau4-01690-00357048-00357239 the global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01691-00357240-00357471 now how is it possible because in
GgiXNkhRau4-01692-00357472-00357727 practice the challenge for for for the
GgiXNkhRau4-01693-00357728-00357910 world bank is that
GgiXNkhRau4-01694-00357911-00358151 it doesn't look very
GgiXNkhRau4-01695-00358152-00358327 let's say stable for a financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01696-00358328-00358478 universal from the global north to go to
GgiXNkhRau4-01697-00358479-00358710 the global south so what they say is
GgiXNkhRau4-01698-00358711-00358934 that it's necessary for governments in
GgiXNkhRau4-01699-00358935-00359223 the global south to the risk investment
GgiXNkhRau4-01700-00359224-00359471 that is related with climate projects so
GgiXNkhRau4-01701-00359472-00359647 what they ask governments the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01702-00359648-00359863 staff to do is basically to to try to
GgiXNkhRau4-01703-00359864-00360119 attract investors by offering them
GgiXNkhRau4-01704-00360120-00360391 subsidies guarantees by changing
GgiXNkhRau4-01705-00360392-00360575 regulation in order to allow this
GgiXNkhRau4-01706-00360576-00360847 investment to take place more easily and
GgiXNkhRau4-01707-00360848-00361151 through this be risky approach the idea
GgiXNkhRau4-01708-00361152-00361343 is that we can have
GgiXNkhRau4-01709-00361344-00361647 that the finance is going to create new
GgiXNkhRau4-01710-00361648-00361815 development opportunities in the context
GgiXNkhRau4-01711-00361816-00361991 of the climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01712-00361992-00362143 so if we look at the features of the
GgiXNkhRau4-01713-00362144-00362351 wall street consensus the first and most
GgiXNkhRau4-01714-00362352-00362551 significant one is that it tries to
GgiXNkhRau4-01715-00362552-00362799 create a new asset class for the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01716-00362800-00362975 financial system
GgiXNkhRau4-01717-00362976-00363223 and in most cases this relies on this
GgiXNkhRau4-01718-00363224-00363439 idea that we can have more climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01719-00363440-00363647 investment by relying on
GgiXNkhRau4-01720-00363648-00363863 private public partnerships
GgiXNkhRau4-01721-00363864-00364158 and these ppps then can rely on some
GgiXNkhRau4-01722-00364159-00364503 loans that some banks can use in order
GgiXNkhRau4-01723-00364504-00364791 to get access to the to the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01724-00364792-00364991 finance for instance they can securitize
GgiXNkhRau4-01725-00364992-00365158 these loans which is a standard
GgiXNkhRau4-01726-00365159-00365327 technique that was has been used over
GgiXNkhRau4-01727-00365328-00365567 the last 20 30 years in global finance
GgiXNkhRau4-01728-00365568-00365775 and create some securities that are very
GgiXNkhRau4-01729-00365776-00365934 attractive for global financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01730-00365935-00366054 investors
GgiXNkhRau4-01731-00366055-00366223 at the same time the wall street
GgiXNkhRau4-01732-00366224-00366399 consensus
GgiXNkhRau4-01733-00366400-00366703 supports this idea of carbon pricing and
GgiXNkhRau4-01734-00366704-00366895 here we have a very significant problem
GgiXNkhRau4-01735-00366896-00367151 because carbon pricing is an idea that
GgiXNkhRau4-01736-00367152-00367351 comes from mainstream economics it
GgiXNkhRau4-01737-00367352-00367582 assumes that we can put a price on
GgiXNkhRau4-01738-00367583-00367775 carbon and then solve the problem of the
GgiXNkhRau4-01739-00367776-00367982 climate prices we know how problematic
GgiXNkhRau4-01740-00367983-00368230 this is but on top of it and we have a
GgiXNkhRau4-01741-00368231-00368447 policy tool that has been suggested for
GgiXNkhRau4-01742-00368448-00368671 counties in the global north that is
GgiXNkhRau4-01743-00368672-00368887 applied in exactly the same way in the
GgiXNkhRau4-01744-00368888-00369047 global south this is what the world bank
GgiXNkhRau4-01745-00369048-00369175 wants to do
GgiXNkhRau4-01746-00369176-00369367 so they want countries in the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01747-00369368-00369551 south to use carbon pricing and they
GgiXNkhRau4-01748-00369552-00369910 want them to use that also because
GgiXNkhRau4-01749-00369911-00370143 they they argue the the argument is that
GgiXNkhRau4-01750-00370144-00370303 they can't uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01751-00370304-00370534 use these revenues from a carbon tax for
GgiXNkhRau4-01752-00370535-00370703 instance in order to reduce their public
GgiXNkhRau4-01753-00370704-00370799 debt
GgiXNkhRau4-01754-00370800-00371103 and finally we have that the wall street
GgiXNkhRau4-01755-00371104-00371239 consensus
GgiXNkhRau4-01756-00371240-00371423 wants to protect as i said before the
GgiXNkhRau4-01757-00371424-00371654 financial system from climate risks
GgiXNkhRau4-01758-00371655-00371727 and
GgiXNkhRau4-01759-00371728-00371958 i think in the future what we might see
GgiXNkhRau4-01760-00371959-00372295 if this consensus uh dominates
GgiXNkhRau4-01761-00372296-00372519 uh we might have the civil banks we act
GgiXNkhRau4-01762-00372520-00372847 as climate rescuers of last resort what
GgiXNkhRau4-01763-00372848-00372958 does it mean
GgiXNkhRau4-01764-00372959-00373182 they will try to save the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01765-00373183-00373391 system and the financial investors in
GgiXNkhRau4-01766-00373392-00373702 the global south if we have catastrophes
GgiXNkhRau4-01767-00373703-00373975 from climate related events so it's very
GgiXNkhRau4-01768-00373976-00374175 likely that in the future if these
GgiXNkhRau4-01769-00374176-00374406 foster consensus becomes the dominant
GgiXNkhRau4-01770-00374407-00374606 way of dealing with the climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01771-00374607-00374847 central banks will intervene in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01772-00374848-00375087 protect the financial investors and not
GgiXNkhRau4-01773-00375088-00375254 in order to protect
GgiXNkhRau4-01774-00375255-00375502 the people in the global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01775-00375503-00375606 and
GgiXNkhRau4-01776-00375607-00375815 and that's very briefly to summarize
GgiXNkhRau4-01777-00375816-00376071 because i know i don't have so much time
GgiXNkhRau4-01778-00376072-00376167 and
GgiXNkhRau4-01779-00376168-00376334 what are the main problems with the wall
GgiXNkhRau4-01780-00376335-00376606 street concepts overall so
GgiXNkhRau4-01781-00376607-00376806 on top of what i just said we have that
GgiXNkhRau4-01782-00376807-00377071 this is a system that can create this is
GgiXNkhRau4-01783-00377072-00377215 a consensus that can create more
GgiXNkhRau4-01784-00377216-00377478 financial fragility in the global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01785-00377479-00377647 because it increases at the end of the
GgiXNkhRau4-01786-00377648-00377871 day the debt of countries in the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01787-00377872-00377975 south
GgiXNkhRau4-01788-00377976-00378191 and at the same time it relies on this
GgiXNkhRau4-01789-00378192-00378406 idea that these countries need to rely
GgiXNkhRau4-01790-00378407-00378630 on global financial investors
GgiXNkhRau4-01791-00378631-00378815 which means that the countries will
GgiXNkhRau4-01792-00378816-00379023 become much more success susceptible to
GgiXNkhRau4-01793-00379024-00379191 the global financial side
GgiXNkhRau4-01794-00379192-00379406 so we will have probably a lot of
GgiXNkhRau4-01795-00379407-00379575 influence at some point and then a lot
GgiXNkhRau4-01796-00379576-00379775 of outflows and we know how problematic
GgiXNkhRau4-01797-00379776-00379902 this is
GgiXNkhRau4-01798-00379903-00380110 now the other problem is that the
GgiXNkhRau4-01799-00380111-00380447 priority of the wall street consensus is
GgiXNkhRau4-01800-00380448-00380719 to create contracts that look
GgiXNkhRau4-01801-00380720-00380934 financially viable for the private
GgiXNkhRau4-01802-00380935-00381230 sector we don't have here a policy
GgiXNkhRau4-01803-00381231-00381495 whereby climate projects are designed in
GgiXNkhRau4-01804-00381496-00381782 a way that supports the local population
GgiXNkhRau4-01805-00381783-00381991 we have that the process have have to be
GgiXNkhRau4-01806-00381992-00382182 designed in a way that is conducive to
GgiXNkhRau4-01807-00382183-00382454 the interest of the private sector and
GgiXNkhRau4-01808-00382455-00382671 and of course this is not going to to
GgiXNkhRau4-01809-00382672-00382775 work
GgiXNkhRau4-01810-00382776-00382982 and this might also create what someone
GgiXNkhRau4-01811-00382983-00383254 could call a green financial colonialism
GgiXNkhRau4-01812-00383255-00383375 because
GgiXNkhRau4-01813-00383376-00383558 we have right now that the financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01814-00383559-00383815 system wants to use the opportunity for
GgiXNkhRau4-01815-00383816-00384039 them of the climate crisis in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01816-00384040-00384247 make more profits and they're going to
GgiXNkhRau4-01817-00384248-00384463 take decisions about how countries the
GgiXNkhRau4-01818-00384464-00384671 global south will address the climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01819-00384672-00384815 crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01820-00384816-00385006 and a very quick comment on the carbon
GgiXNkhRau4-01821-00385007-00385254 pricing we know the carbon pricing
GgiXNkhRau4-01822-00385255-00385487 has several problems one of one of them
GgiXNkhRau4-01823-00385488-00385663 is that can increase in the quality is
GgiXNkhRau4-01824-00385664-00385902 quite a lot and we also know that carbon
GgiXNkhRau4-01825-00385903-00386102 prices can have
GgiXNkhRau4-01826-00386103-00386263 more significant effects on women
GgiXNkhRau4-01827-00386264-00386415 compared to men
GgiXNkhRau4-01828-00386416-00386615 because for example energy is very
GgiXNkhRau4-01829-00386616-00386782 important for social production and if
GgiXNkhRau4-01830-00386783-00386967 we increase and we have an increase in
GgiXNkhRau4-01831-00386968-00387247 the price of energy this uh will have
GgiXNkhRau4-01832-00387248-00387478 very negative effects on the well-being
GgiXNkhRau4-01833-00387479-00387758 of women in the global cell
GgiXNkhRau4-01834-00387759-00388054 uh okay in the last uh a few minutes
GgiXNkhRau4-01835-00388055-00388367 that i have uh i will try to to
GgiXNkhRau4-01836-00388368-00388695 outline some elements of
GgiXNkhRau4-01837-00388696-00388943 a social ecological transformation uh
GgiXNkhRau4-01838-00388944-00389134 that will put environmental justice
GgiXNkhRau4-01839-00389135-00389343 justice that is at its core and i'm not
GgiXNkhRau4-01840-00389344-00389599 going to to be very detailed but i would
GgiXNkhRau4-01841-00389600-00389782 like to say a couple of things first
GgiXNkhRau4-01842-00389783-00389982 about how we should look at climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01843-00389983-00390175 mitigation in the global north and
GgiXNkhRau4-01844-00390176-00390487 second at how we can think about climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01845-00390488-00390791 justice and the global financial system
GgiXNkhRau4-01846-00390792-00390863 so
GgiXNkhRau4-01847-00390864-00391054 if we look at the discussion so far
GgiXNkhRau4-01848-00391055-00391254 about what countries the global north
GgiXNkhRau4-01849-00391255-00391454 can do in order to address the crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01850-00391455-00392087 again carbon pricing is a report
GgiXNkhRau4-01851-00392088-00392310 we did very quickly some carbon solid
GgiXNkhRau4-01852-00392311-00392487 the problem we need to have significant
GgiXNkhRau4-01853-00392488-00392695 transformations that include
GgiXNkhRau4-01854-00392696-00392934 green public investment green industrial
GgiXNkhRau4-01855-00392935-00393151 policy we need support sectors that can
GgiXNkhRau4-01856-00393152-00393415 contribute to the reduction of emissions
GgiXNkhRau4-01857-00393416-00393678 we need to to use uh developer banking
GgiXNkhRau4-01858-00393679-00393863 in a way that is conducive to
GgiXNkhRau4-01859-00393864-00394078 investments that are important for for
GgiXNkhRau4-01860-00394079-00394206 for climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01861-00394207-00394423 and we also need to use environmental
GgiXNkhRau4-01862-00394424-00394751 regulation uh if we take as given that
GgiXNkhRau4-01863-00394752-00394895 the markets are going to solve the
GgiXNkhRau4-01864-00394896-00395102 problem we need regulation in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01865-00395103-00395319 make sure that the decisions that will
GgiXNkhRau4-01866-00395320-00395599 be taken from people and firms will be
GgiXNkhRau4-01867-00395600-00395710 in line with
GgiXNkhRau4-01868-00395711-00395967 the paris agreement
GgiXNkhRau4-01869-00395968-00396158 in the context of europe for instance if
GgiXNkhRau4-01870-00396159-00396351 we think about spain it's very important
GgiXNkhRau4-01871-00396352-00396454 of course
GgiXNkhRau4-01872-00396455-00396663 to change this austerity narrative we
GgiXNkhRau4-01873-00396664-00396958 cannot have more public green investment
GgiXNkhRau4-01874-00396959-00397215 if we have this narrative that public
GgiXNkhRau4-01875-00397216-00397399 debt is a problem and of course this is
GgiXNkhRau4-01876-00397400-00397639 a very significant political issue that
GgiXNkhRau4-01877-00397640-00397910 we have in the eurozone uh if this
GgiXNkhRau4-01878-00397911-00398095 continues it's very difficult to have
GgiXNkhRau4-01879-00398096-00398215 the investment that is necessary in
GgiXNkhRau4-01880-00398216-00398375 order to address the crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01881-00398376-00398534 another thing that is very important and
GgiXNkhRau4-01882-00398535-00398758 it was also uh highlighted quite a lot
GgiXNkhRau4-01883-00398759-00398919 in the first session today
GgiXNkhRau4-01884-00398920-00399110 is that it's not just to have some
GgiXNkhRau4-01885-00399111-00399382 policies that we promote green and
GgiXNkhRau4-01886-00399383-00399647 will penalize dirty we also need to
GgiXNkhRau4-01887-00399648-00399878 change completely our construction norms
GgiXNkhRau4-01888-00399879-00400199 in the global north we cannot continue
GgiXNkhRau4-01889-00400200-00400375 consuming in the same way that we have
GgiXNkhRau4-01890-00400376-00400647 done so far of course a very significant
GgiXNkhRau4-01891-00400648-00400902 responsibility for consumption norms is
GgiXNkhRau4-01892-00400903-00401095 related to rich people and we have to
GgiXNkhRau4-01893-00401096-00401239 address this
GgiXNkhRau4-01894-00401240-00401582 but we cannot just rely on some
GgiXNkhRau4-01895-00401583-00401767 changes in macroeconomic and financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01896-00401768-00401991 bodies to address the crisis we need to
GgiXNkhRau4-01897-00401992-00402271 to think uh very differently about how
GgiXNkhRau4-01898-00402272-00402471 we consume and another issue that is
GgiXNkhRau4-01899-00402472-00402767 very important and is going to become
GgiXNkhRau4-01900-00402768-00402999 very significant also in the case of
GgiXNkhRau4-01901-00403000-00403151 europe because of the european green
GgiXNkhRau4-01902-00403152-00403254 deal
GgiXNkhRau4-01903-00403255-00403543 is that if for example we want to invest
GgiXNkhRau4-01904-00403544-00403919 more in neon blues we cannot forget that
GgiXNkhRau4-01905-00403920-00404143 these raw materials that are necessary
GgiXNkhRau4-01906-00404144-00404439 for uh using solar panels and with farms
GgiXNkhRau4-01907-00404440-00404639 come from the global south and people it
GgiXNkhRau4-01908-00404640-00404806 can be exploited in the global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01909-00404807-00405071 because we have we might we might want
GgiXNkhRau4-01910-00405072-00405351 to have more renewables in europe uh so
GgiXNkhRau4-01911-00405352-00405510 we need to incorporate climate just
GgiXNkhRau4-01912-00405511-00405663 criteria and the way that we think about
GgiXNkhRau4-01913-00405664-00405815 climate policies and we need to take
GgiXNkhRau4-01914-00405816-00406054 actions to deal with the injustice that
GgiXNkhRau4-01915-00406055-00406310 the climate policies can create
GgiXNkhRau4-01916-00406311-00406558 and in this context i would like to say
GgiXNkhRau4-01917-00406559-00406710 also a few things about the role of
GgiXNkhRau4-01918-00406711-00406823 finance
GgiXNkhRau4-01919-00406824-00406982 first of all what is important for the
GgiXNkhRau4-01920-00406983-00407151 global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01921-00407152-00407447 is to have the space to make decisions
GgiXNkhRau4-01922-00407448-00407639 about how they're going to address the
GgiXNkhRau4-01923-00407640-00407799 climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01924-00407800-00407887 and
GgiXNkhRau4-01925-00407888-00408039 for example
GgiXNkhRau4-01926-00408040-00408247 justin perry has talked so much about
GgiXNkhRau4-01927-00408248-00408375 the importance of having climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01928-00408376-00408582 reparations if we recognize that there
GgiXNkhRau4-01929-00408583-00408782 is a climate injustice problem we need
GgiXNkhRau4-01930-00408783-00409047 to have climate preparations that will
GgiXNkhRau4-01931-00409048-00409271 give the space to countries to deal with
GgiXNkhRau4-01932-00409272-00409382 the crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01933-00409383-00409622 and for instance if we think about how
GgiXNkhRau4-01934-00409623-00409959 we can fund these reparations uh one i
GgiXNkhRau4-01935-00409960-00410134 mean there are several ways to do this
GgiXNkhRau4-01936-00410135-00410334 but we can also have for instance a
GgiXNkhRau4-01937-00410335-00410599 dirty financial transaction tax
GgiXNkhRau4-01938-00410600-00410799 which will penalize the financial system
GgiXNkhRau4-01939-00410800-00410926 that has the responsibility for the
GgiXNkhRau4-01940-00410927-00411103 climate crisis that as i explained
GgiXNkhRau4-01941-00411104-00411199 before
GgiXNkhRau4-01942-00411200-00411343 we also need to have debt relief
GgiXNkhRau4-01943-00411343-00411578 programs that do not rely on
GgiXNkhRau4-01944-00411579-00411870 conditionalities but rely on the fact
GgiXNkhRau4-01945-00411871-00412047 that countries the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01946-00412047-00412295 south have to spend more right now
GgiXNkhRau4-01947-00412296-00412639 because of the climate crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01948-00412639-00412839 another thing that is very crucial is
GgiXNkhRau4-01949-00412839-00412951 that
GgiXNkhRau4-01950-00412952-00413230 if you look at the climate finance from
GgiXNkhRau4-01951-00413231-00413503 developed countries to developing ones
GgiXNkhRau4-01952-00413504-00413814 in most cases this climate finance has
GgiXNkhRau4-01953-00413815-00414007 the form of loans
GgiXNkhRau4-01954-00414008-00414166 loans create debt
GgiXNkhRau4-01955-00414167-00414255 that
GgiXNkhRau4-01956-00414256-00414470 create financial fragility in the long
GgiXNkhRau4-01957-00414471-00414782 run it can lead to a crisis so we need
GgiXNkhRau4-01958-00414783-00414974 to have more grants
GgiXNkhRau4-01959-00414975-00415255 that focus not only on how countries the
GgiXNkhRau4-01960-00415256-00415399 global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01961-00415400-00415551 can
GgiXNkhRau4-01962-00415552-00415814 reduce their emissions but focus also on
GgiXNkhRau4-01963-00415815-00416087 how they can spend on climate adaptation
GgiXNkhRau4-01964-00416088-00416278 and how they can deal with the climate
GgiXNkhRau4-01965-00416279-00416510 related damages and losses
GgiXNkhRau4-01966-00416512-00416655 and the final thing that i would like to
GgiXNkhRau4-01967-00416656-00416830 say is that when we talk about civil
GgiXNkhRau4-01968-00416831-00417014 banks in the global north
GgiXNkhRau4-01969-00417015-00417199 one thing that is very important is that
GgiXNkhRau4-01970-00417200-00417478 these central banks have a very strong
GgiXNkhRau4-01971-00417479-00417695 position in the global financial
GgiXNkhRau4-01972-00417696-00417918 architecture the way that the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01973-00417919-00418103 financial system has been
GgiXNkhRau4-01974-00418104-00418263 developed
GgiXNkhRau4-01975-00418264-00418503 has as a result that
GgiXNkhRau4-01976-00418504-00418734 the bank of england the fed
GgiXNkhRau4-01977-00418735-00419078 have currencies that are very strong and
GgiXNkhRau4-01978-00419079-00419263 that at the top of the current hierarchy
GgiXNkhRau4-01979-00419264-00419470 at the global level this means that they
GgiXNkhRau4-01980-00419471-00419670 can very easily print money in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01981-00419671-00419863 support their economies but this is not
GgiXNkhRau4-01982-00419864-00420063 the case in the global south and if we
GgiXNkhRau4-01983-00420064-00420327 want to be serious about climate justice
GgiXNkhRau4-01984-00420328-00420647 uh we need to find ways to to use this
GgiXNkhRau4-01985-00420647-00420831 sprinting power the civil banks have in
GgiXNkhRau4-01986-00420832-00421055 order to support counties in the global
GgiXNkhRau4-01987-00421056-00421318 south so uh we
GgiXNkhRau4-01988-00421319-00421470 we can have the civil banks in the
GgiXNkhRau4-01989-00421471-00421751 global north can print money in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-01990-00421752-00421999 support countries in the global south
GgiXNkhRau4-01991-00422000-00422375 and then and of course all these
GgiXNkhRau4-01992-00422376-00422575 elements of this agenda cannot be
GgiXNkhRau4-01993-00422576-00422783 implemented right now because of the
GgiXNkhRau4-01994-00422784-00423039 political environment as i said
GgiXNkhRau4-01995-00423039-00423247 the wall street consensus is a dominant
GgiXNkhRau4-01996-00423247-00423479 narrative about how we can deal
GgiXNkhRau4-01997-00423480-00423622 with the crisis
GgiXNkhRau4-01998-00423623-00423831 uh and it's very difficult to change
GgiXNkhRau4-01999-00423832-00424014 that but i think it's also important to
GgiXNkhRau4-02000-00424015-00424191 be clear on what we would like to
GgiXNkhRau4-02001-00424192-00424470 achieve and i think that it's very it's
GgiXNkhRau4-02002-00424471-00424622 necessary to change the political
GgiXNkhRau4-02003-00424623-00424814 environment the climate crisis is going
GgiXNkhRau4-02004-00424815-00425014 to become worse in the coming years so
GgiXNkhRau4-02005-00425015-00425207 we really need to have alternatives and
GgiXNkhRau4-02006-00425208-00425375 to to be ready to
GgiXNkhRau4-02007-00425376-00425503 to to
GgiXNkhRau4-02008-00425504-00425614 to use
GgiXNkhRau4-02009-00425615-00425879 any type of political power in order to
GgiXNkhRau4-02010-00425880-00426063 to fundamentally transform the way that
GgiXNkhRau4-02011-00426064-00426270 the global financial system works
GgiXNkhRau4-02012-00426271-00426710 uh thank you very much
GgiXNkhRau4-02013-00426712-00427039 thank you janice ingrid let's hope
GgiXNkhRau4-02014-00427039-00427247 policymakers take note
GgiXNkhRau4-02015-00427247-00427495 of your of your talk
GgiXNkhRau4-02016-00427496-00427727 and many thanks for for being here and
GgiXNkhRau4-02017-00427728-00427903 for your time
GgiXNkhRau4-02018-00427904-00428318 in a few minutes we will be with uh
GgiXNkhRau4-02019-00428319-00428647 with maristenas vampa and
GgiXNkhRau4-02020-00428647-00428807 discussing lithium
GgiXNkhRau4-02021-00428808-00429127 and the limits of the material limits of
GgiXNkhRau4-02022-00429128-00429231 this planet
GgiXNkhRau4-02023-00429232-00429599 thanks everyone for for joining
GgiXNkhRau4-02024-00429600-00429695 thank you
GgiXNkhRau4-02025-00429696-00429895 yeah thank you
GgiXNkhRau4-02026-00429896-00430055 good luck with the next
GgiXNkhRau4-02027-00430056-00430356 session
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GjkRaqf7iY0-00001-00001607-00001782 now at mcdonald's you can create your
GjkRaqf7iY0-00002-00001784-00001991 own version of spider-man with a fun toy
GjkRaqf7iY0-00003-00001992-00002167 from the new movie spider-man into the
GjkRaqf7iY0-00004-00002168-00002310 spider-verse rated pg
GjkRaqf7iY0-00005-00002311-00002487 and discover the amazing goodness of
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GjkRaqf7iY0-00007-00002664-00002883 can you pass me an apple slime oh never
GjkRaqf7iY0-00008-00002884-00003184 mind
GnwB2vU57Nc-00000-00000552-00000831 since man landed on the moon countless
GnwB2vU57Nc-00001-00000832-00001047 conspiracy theories have surfaced all
GnwB2vU57Nc-00002-00001048-00001166 over the web
GnwB2vU57Nc-00003-00001167-00001366 some so virulent they spread like a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00004-00001367-00001607 virus seeping into many areas of the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00005-00001607-00001710 media
GnwB2vU57Nc-00006-00001711-00001967 some of these theories predictably hold
GnwB2vU57Nc-00007-00001968-00002199 more water than others some claim we
GnwB2vU57Nc-00008-00002200-00002447 never went to the moan this regardless
GnwB2vU57Nc-00009-00002448-00002599 of the proof that has continued to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00010-00002600-00002775 surface over the years
GnwB2vU57Nc-00011-00002776-00002991 nasa claims to have lost the telemetry
GnwB2vU57Nc-00012-00002992-00003238 from the moon landings also the motive
GnwB2vU57Nc-00013-00003239-00003479 behind this claim is unclear yet no
GnwB2vU57Nc-00014-00003479-00003727 matter how unlikely they continue to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00015-00003728-00003911 claim that it has been missing for
GnwB2vU57Nc-00016-00003911-00004031 decades
GnwB2vU57Nc-00017-00004032-00004303 conspiracy theorists often overlook the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00018-00004304-00004559 astonishing contributions which nasa has
GnwB2vU57Nc-00019-00004560-00004775 also made to modern society
GnwB2vU57Nc-00020-00004776-00005006 yet some theories actually claim a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00021-00005007-00005222 literal polar opposite of moon landing
GnwB2vU57Nc-00022-00005223-00005502 conspiracies these not only agree that
GnwB2vU57Nc-00023-00005503-00005799 we did indeed land walk and even drive
GnwB2vU57Nc-00024-00005800-00006095 on the moon but claim we have been back
GnwB2vU57Nc-00025-00006096-00006343 in secret and to explore a rather
GnwB2vU57Nc-00026-00006344-00006527 astonishing thing
GnwB2vU57Nc-00027-00006528-00006767 according to numerous sources the most
GnwB2vU57Nc-00028-00006768-00006983 compelling of said claims began on
GnwB2vU57Nc-00029-00006984-00007198 youtube with the release of some
GnwB2vU57Nc-00030-00007200-00007487 extraordinary cgi footage of acclaimed
GnwB2vU57Nc-00031-00007488-00007751 moon landing and the exploration of a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00032-00007752-00008055 simply gigantic alien spacecraft
GnwB2vU57Nc-00033-00008056-00008246 due to the moon being so difficult to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00034-00008247-00008478 reach and the fact that anything which
GnwB2vU57Nc-00035-00008479-00008783 either crash landed or was possibly even
GnwB2vU57Nc-00036-00008784-00009014 abandoned on the moon even billions of
GnwB2vU57Nc-00037-00009015-00009239 years ago would have been preserved in
GnwB2vU57Nc-00038-00009240-00009423 an incredible condition
GnwB2vU57Nc-00039-00009424-00009791 in april 2007 videos began appearing on
GnwB2vU57Nc-00040-00009792-00010183 youtube under the username retire daf b
GnwB2vU57Nc-00041-00010184-00010383 telling the extraordinary story of a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00042-00010384-00010687 supposed apollo 20 a secret lunar
GnwB2vU57Nc-00043-00010688-00010855 mission that had discovered the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00044-00010856-00011135 existence of intelligent alien life on
GnwB2vU57Nc-00045-00011136-00011255 the moon
GnwB2vU57Nc-00046-00011256-00011767 then on may 23 2007 italian ufologist
GnwB2vU57Nc-00047-00011768-00012063 luca scantaburlo managed to secure an
GnwB2vU57Nc-00048-00012064-00012278 interview with an individual who claimed
GnwB2vU57Nc-00049-00012279-00012527 to be the creator of the channel a man
GnwB2vU57Nc-00050-00012528-00012759 by the name of william rutledge who
GnwB2vU57Nc-00051-00012760-00013063 later claimed to be in fact himself a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00052-00013063-00013358 retired secret american astronaut who at
GnwB2vU57Nc-00053-00013359-00013591 the time was living in rwanda
GnwB2vU57Nc-00054-00013591-00013775 rutledge claimed to be the commander of
GnwB2vU57Nc-00055-00013776-00014038 the apollo 20 crew and to be the owner
GnwB2vU57Nc-00056-00014040-00014279 of the retired daffby account
GnwB2vU57Nc-00057-00014280-00014503 however the interviewer never met
GnwB2vU57Nc-00058-00014504-00014719 rutledge in person as the interview was
GnwB2vU57Nc-00059-00014719-00014991 conducted over yahoo messenger
GnwB2vU57Nc-00060-00014991-00015215 during the interview however rutledge
GnwB2vU57Nc-00061-00015216-00015471 claimed that apollo 20 was a top-secret
GnwB2vU57Nc-00062-00015472-00015830 mission launched in mid-august 1976 from
GnwB2vU57Nc-00063-00015831-00016071 vandenberg air force base near santa
GnwB2vU57Nc-00064-00016072-00016247 barbara california
GnwB2vU57Nc-00065-00016247-00016439 he also claimed that it was conducted
GnwB2vU57Nc-00066-00016440-00016647 jointly by the united states and the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00067-00016648-00016927 former soviet union he also alleged that
GnwB2vU57Nc-00068-00016928-00017111 other missions were made by american
GnwB2vU57Nc-00069-00017112-00017407 astronaut leona snyder a now established
GnwB2vU57Nc-00070-00017408-00017694 fictitious persona and former soviet
GnwB2vU57Nc-00071-00017695-00017975 cosmonaut alexei leonov the first human
GnwB2vU57Nc-00072-00017976-00018175 to perform a spacewalk
GnwB2vU57Nc-00073-00018176-00018343 the purported landing site of the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00074-00018344-00018630 mission was near gayo crater a feature
GnwB2vU57Nc-00075-00018631-00018911 near the much larger del porte crater
GnwB2vU57Nc-00076-00018912-00019150 rutledge said the videos show that he
GnwB2vU57Nc-00077-00019151-00019367 and leonov discover the remains of an
GnwB2vU57Nc-00078-00019368-00019583 ancient lunar civilization
GnwB2vU57Nc-00079-00019584-00019807 he also said they brought back artifacts
GnwB2vU57Nc-00080-00019808-00020014 to earth for study including a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00081-00020015-00020303 hibernating female humanoid
GnwB2vU57Nc-00082-00020304-00020567 it is a story which we found highly
GnwB2vU57Nc-00083-00020568-00020894 compelling
GnwB2vU57Nc-00084-00020895-00021175 why did we never go back to the moon
GnwB2vU57Nc-00085-00021176-00021447 undoubtedly man's greatest achievement a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00086-00021448-00021614 feat which has apparently never been
GnwB2vU57Nc-00087-00021615-00021799 attempted again
GnwB2vU57Nc-00088-00021800-00021958 there are many conspiracy theories
GnwB2vU57Nc-00089-00021959-00022175 surrounding the moon missions some for
GnwB2vU57Nc-00090-00022176-00022430 good reasons and others not so
GnwB2vU57Nc-00091-00022431-00022663 a mission to the moon or indeed mars
GnwB2vU57Nc-00092-00022664-00022830 should be an experience which unites
GnwB2vU57Nc-00093-00022831-00023055 humanity under a common goal
GnwB2vU57Nc-00094-00023056-00023414 yet alas this unity rarely occurs
GnwB2vU57Nc-00095-00023415-00023591 it is a well-known fact that knowledge
GnwB2vU57Nc-00096-00023592-00023878 is power yet unfortunately this fact can
GnwB2vU57Nc-00097-00023879-00024135 often breed deceit and deception
GnwB2vU57Nc-00098-00024136-00024286 for it is believed by some that
GnwB2vU57Nc-00099-00024287-00024478 knowledge only makes one powerful when
GnwB2vU57Nc-00100-00024479-00024671 it is concealed from another
GnwB2vU57Nc-00101-00024672-00024871 regardless of whether this always be
GnwB2vU57Nc-00102-00024872-00025158 accurate within reality
GnwB2vU57Nc-00103-00025159-00025367 because of this system of accumulating
GnwB2vU57Nc-00104-00025368-00025614 and protecting power space-going nations
GnwB2vU57Nc-00105-00025616-00025767 have gone to tremendous efforts to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00106-00025768-00025990 conceal things from the public and
GnwB2vU57Nc-00107-00025991-00026143 indeed each other
GnwB2vU57Nc-00108-00026144-00026343 the united states government for example
GnwB2vU57Nc-00109-00026344-00026583 demands astronomers astronauts and many
GnwB2vU57Nc-00110-00026583-00026827 other workers at nasa sign an oath of
GnwB2vU57Nc-00111-00026827-00026983 confidentiality
GnwB2vU57Nc-00112-00026983-00027214 upon breaking this oath you could face a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00113-00027216-00027446 conviction of treason a crime which
GnwB2vU57Nc-00114-00027447-00027655 carries the death penalty
GnwB2vU57Nc-00115-00027656-00027862 however regardless of this over the past
GnwB2vU57Nc-00116-00027863-00028087 few years more and more individuals from
GnwB2vU57Nc-00117-00028088-00028279 around the world have bravely began to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00118-00028280-00028558 blow the whistle on these secrecies
GnwB2vU57Nc-00119-00028560-00028790 dr ken johnston former director of
GnwB2vU57Nc-00120-00028791-00028951 nasa's department of photographic
GnwB2vU57Nc-00121-00028952-00029167 evidence has stated that during his stay
GnwB2vU57Nc-00122-00029168-00029358 at the agency he was able to see
GnwB2vU57Nc-00123-00029360-00029583 original photos of countless ruins
GnwB2vU57Nc-00124-00029583-00029831 pyramids and intact temples all resting
GnwB2vU57Nc-00125-00029832-00029990 upon the moon
GnwB2vU57Nc-00126-00029991-00030158 not only are there now a number of
GnwB2vU57Nc-00127-00030160-00030407 independent testimonies made by numerous
GnwB2vU57Nc-00128-00030408-00030655 figures from within these space agencies
GnwB2vU57Nc-00129-00030656-00030927 and the accompanying programs confessing
GnwB2vU57Nc-00130-00030927-00031118 to the concealment of ancient ruins on
GnwB2vU57Nc-00131-00031119-00031351 the moon's surface but we also have
GnwB2vU57Nc-00132-00031352-00031543 compelling physical evidence of such
GnwB2vU57Nc-00133-00031544-00031727 structures including photographs
GnwB2vU57Nc-00134-00031727-00031958 released by nasa themselves
GnwB2vU57Nc-00135-00031960-00032174 one was snapped by the apollo 17
GnwB2vU57Nc-00136-00032175-00032446 astronauts in 1972
GnwB2vU57Nc-00137-00032447-00032639 subsequently uploaded to the official
GnwB2vU57Nc-00138-00032639-00032887 nasa website it was originally labeled
GnwB2vU57Nc-00139-00032888-00033199 as overexposed however as technology has
GnwB2vU57Nc-00140-00033200-00033431 evolved and computer software has become
GnwB2vU57Nc-00141-00033432-00033662 more inept at refining images it has
GnwB2vU57Nc-00142-00033663-00033951 revealed something amazing
GnwB2vU57Nc-00143-00033952-00034183 along with apparent pyramidal structure
GnwB2vU57Nc-00144-00034184-00034383 clearly seen within this image some
GnwB2vU57Nc-00145-00034384-00034567 investigators have also highlighted a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00146-00034568-00034831 possible monolith in the foreground
GnwB2vU57Nc-00147-00034832-00035031 was space odyssey trying to tell us
GnwB2vU57Nc-00148-00035032-00035151 something
GnwB2vU57Nc-00149-00035152-00035351 predictably many people have come
GnwB2vU57Nc-00150-00035352-00035527 forward attempting to discredit this
GnwB2vU57Nc-00151-00035528-00035807 discovery yet fortunately for us in the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00152-00035808-00036062 december of 2008 the hubble space
GnwB2vU57Nc-00153-00036063-00036287 telescope took some extremely intriguing
GnwB2vU57Nc-00154-00036288-00036487 images of its own
GnwB2vU57Nc-00155-00036488-00036699 images which seem to corroborate the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00156-00036700-00036999 once-over-exposed apollo photo
GnwB2vU57Nc-00157-00037000-00037230 do these images actually show ancient
GnwB2vU57Nc-00158-00037231-00037487 ruins upon the surface of the moon
GnwB2vU57Nc-00159-00037488-00037679 if this is the case how did they get
GnwB2vU57Nc-00160-00037680-00037902 there or more importantly who could have
GnwB2vU57Nc-00161-00037903-00038046 built them
GnwB2vU57Nc-00162-00038047-00038230 are these relics proof of an ancient
GnwB2vU57Nc-00163-00038231-00038423 space going civilization
GnwB2vU57Nc-00164-00038424-00038711 or maybe extraterrestrial activity
GnwB2vU57Nc-00165-00038712-00038927 regardless of how they got there we find
GnwB2vU57Nc-00166-00038928-00039183 their existence highly compelling and
GnwB2vU57Nc-00167-00039184-00039374 could be perceived as a possible motive
GnwB2vU57Nc-00168-00039375-00039551 for turning the space programs into
GnwB2vU57Nc-00169-00039552-00039735 black projects
GnwB2vU57Nc-00170-00039736-00039959 maybe we did go back to the moon
GnwB2vU57Nc-00171-00039960-00040199 it's just most were never told about it
GnwB2vU57Nc-00172-00040200-00040318 after all
GnwB2vU57Nc-00173-00040319-00040511 knowledge is power
GnwB2vU57Nc-00174-00040512-00040687 thanks for watching guys and until next
GnwB2vU57Nc-00175-00040688-00040918 time take care
GnwB2vU57Nc-00176-00040919-00041127 there are many theories which orbit the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00177-00041128-00041430 apollo space missions however apart from
GnwB2vU57Nc-00178-00041431-00041687 the obvious moon hoax claims there are
GnwB2vU57Nc-00179-00041688-00041918 many other baffling tales surrounding
GnwB2vU57Nc-00180-00041919-00042046 these missions
GnwB2vU57Nc-00181-00042047-00042255 surrounding not only a proof to the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00182-00042256-00042527 validity of the programs but also a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00183-00042528-00042735 seemingly transparent approach to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00184-00042736-00042983 presumably many although we would never
GnwB2vU57Nc-00185-00042984-00043215 believe all of the anomalies that the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00186-00043216-00043495 american space agency encountered during
GnwB2vU57Nc-00187-00043496-00043743 those incredibly expensive yet highly
GnwB2vU57Nc-00188-00043744-00043918 successful missions
GnwB2vU57Nc-00189-00043919-00044111 watched by nearly everyone spinning
GnwB2vU57Nc-00190-00044112-00044439 around on our small globe one very few
GnwB2vU57Nc-00191-00044440-00044679 lucky enough to travel away from like to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00192-00044680-00044902 call the blue marble
GnwB2vU57Nc-00193-00044903-00045127 there are many unexplained images that
GnwB2vU57Nc-00194-00045128-00045399 have been snapped of the moon by nasa
GnwB2vU57Nc-00195-00045400-00045615 some claimed as showing nothing like
GnwB2vU57Nc-00196-00045616-00045790 that of the famous pyramid we have
GnwB2vU57Nc-00197-00045791-00046007 covered in the past seemingly
GnwB2vU57Nc-00198-00046008-00046279 rediscovered on an image once claimed by
GnwB2vU57Nc-00199-00046280-00046558 nasa as an overexposed image
GnwB2vU57Nc-00200-00046559-00046815 yet there are many other anomalies and
GnwB2vU57Nc-00201-00046816-00047102 objects nasa neither confirm nor deny
GnwB2vU57Nc-00202-00047103-00047374 the existence of yet still release said
GnwB2vU57Nc-00203-00047375-00047543 images to the world
GnwB2vU57Nc-00204-00047544-00047830 they do not deny and equally accept that
GnwB2vU57Nc-00205-00047831-00048095 many they cannot explain
GnwB2vU57Nc-00206-00048096-00048223 the shard
GnwB2vU57Nc-00207-00048224-00048535 this image is a 44 time enlargement of a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00208-00048536-00048990 lunar orbiter frame coded lo384m
GnwB2vU57Nc-00209-00048991-00049230 taken with the medium resolution camera
GnwB2vU57Nc-00210-00049231-00049535 at a distance of at least 250 miles it
GnwB2vU57Nc-00211-00049536-00049751 shows an object dubbed by richard
GnwB2vU57Nc-00212-00049752-00049999 hoagland as the shard
GnwB2vU57Nc-00213-00050000-00050183 interestingly although some have
GnwB2vU57Nc-00214-00050184-00050399 dismissed the object as a simple camera
GnwB2vU57Nc-00215-00050400-00050702 malfunction the shard also possesses a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00216-00050703-00050886 shadow correctly aligned with the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00217-00050887-00051135 position of saul at that time
GnwB2vU57Nc-00218-00051136-00051335 according to hoagland quote
GnwB2vU57Nc-00219-00051336-00051590 poor resolution images like this one of
GnwB2vU57Nc-00220-00051591-00051854 the shard have led some to conclude it
GnwB2vU57Nc-00221-00051855-00052150 is an ephemeral outgassing event
GnwB2vU57Nc-00222-00052151-00052326 however the enterprise mission
GnwB2vU57Nc-00223-00052327-00052679 enhancements reveal no spray or splatter
GnwB2vU57Nc-00224-00052679-00052847 which would be consistent with such a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00225-00052848-00052991 conclusion
GnwB2vU57Nc-00226-00052991-00053238 he goes on to state the object appears
GnwB2vU57Nc-00227-00053239-00053471 to be solid though badly battered by
GnwB2vU57Nc-00228-00053472-00053735 meteors end quote
GnwB2vU57Nc-00229-00053736-00054023 above and behind the shard is the tower
GnwB2vU57Nc-00230-00054024-00054182 another among this collection of
GnwB2vU57Nc-00231-00054183-00054415 mystifying images of apparent lunar
GnwB2vU57Nc-00232-00054416-00054519 objects
GnwB2vU57Nc-00233-00054520-00054687 the tower has been researched and
GnwB2vU57Nc-00234-00054688-00054911 studied by many people since its
GnwB2vU57Nc-00235-00054912-00055166 discovery among nasa's images
GnwB2vU57Nc-00236-00055167-00055423 a massive structure calculated as being
GnwB2vU57Nc-00237-00055424-00055679 an incredible seven miles high
GnwB2vU57Nc-00238-00055679-00055863 this estimation clearly makes any
GnwB2vU57Nc-00239-00055864-00056126 consideration that the tower is indeed a
GnwB2vU57Nc-00240-00056127-00056382 real structural anomaly soaring from the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00241-00056383-00056654 lunar surface a tough pill to swallow
GnwB2vU57Nc-00242-00056655-00056887 yet the images remain an incredibly
GnwB2vU57Nc-00243-00056888-00057103 difficult thing to explain and the
GnwB2vU57Nc-00244-00057104-00057415 tower's cuboid feature atop just adds to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00245-00057416-00057687 this ongoing mystery yet one of deep
GnwB2vU57Nc-00246-00057688-00058030 intrigue is the mystery of castle
GnwB2vU57Nc-00247-00058032-00058238 the name given to an object captured by
GnwB2vU57Nc-00248-00058239-00058511 the apollo 10 astronauts during the moon
GnwB2vU57Nc-00249-00058512-00058882 orbit mission codenamed as10 32
GnwB2vU57Nc-00250-00058883-00059263 4822 it is of a one mile long object
GnwB2vU57Nc-00251-00059264-00059519 floating miles above the lunar surface
GnwB2vU57Nc-00252-00059520-00059766 like a satellite to our satellite that
GnwB2vU57Nc-00253-00059767-00060015 even more amazingly is possibly like
GnwB2vU57Nc-00254-00060016-00060271 that of what makes saturn's rings that
GnwB2vU57Nc-00255-00060272-00060526 being ice crystals of pure water is
GnwB2vU57Nc-00256-00060527-00060759 apparently according to future enhanced
GnwB2vU57Nc-00257-00060760-00061023 image study also made from a material
GnwB2vU57Nc-00258-00061024-00061247 alike glittering glass
GnwB2vU57Nc-00259-00061248-00061471 apart from the reports of strange music
GnwB2vU57Nc-00260-00061472-00061719 being heard on the far side of the moon
GnwB2vU57Nc-00261-00061720-00061966 a claim few will ever be able to confirm
GnwB2vU57Nc-00262-00061967-00062094 the truth of
GnwB2vU57Nc-00263-00062095-00062335 this extraordinary object is something
GnwB2vU57Nc-00264-00062336-00062599 very few know of and even less have
GnwB2vU57Nc-00265-00062600-00062703 studied
GnwB2vU57Nc-00266-00062704-00062919 unless more attention is given to such
GnwB2vU57Nc-00267-00062920-00063191 incredible anomalies ones witnessed by
GnwB2vU57Nc-00268-00063191-00063471 us already and so relatively close to
GnwB2vU57Nc-00269-00063472-00063711 our little home we may never know what
GnwB2vU57Nc-00270-00063712-00063847 they are
GnwB2vU57Nc-00271-00063848-00064473 they are undoubtedly highly compelling
GnwB2vU57Nc-00272-00064474-00065238 [Music]
GnwB2vU57Nc-00273-00065239-00065427 so
GnwB2vU57Nc-00274-00065428-00066119 [Music]
GnwB2vU57Nc-00275-00066120-00066327 you
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00000-00000386-00000599 number one
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00001-00000600-00000911 so far
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00002-00000911-00001403 so far
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00003-00001404-00001582 number two
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00004-00001583-00002237 distance
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00005-00002238-00002417 number three
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00006-00002418-00002795 travel
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00007-00002796-00003100 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00008-00003101-00003551 number four together
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00009-00003552-00003940 together
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00010-00003942-00004156 number five
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00011-00004157-00004817 police
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00012-00004818-00005033 number six
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00013-00005034-00005234 respect
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00014-00005235-00005375 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00015-00005376-00005806 respect
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00016-00005807-00006052 number seven
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00017-00006053-00006395 standard
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00018-00006396-00006798 standard
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00019-00006800-00007031 number eight
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00020-00007031-00007619 office
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00021-00007620-00007810 number nine
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00022-00007811-00008092 sketch
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00023-00008093-00008405 cage
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00024-00008406-00008933 number 10 initiative
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00025-00008934-00009377 initiative
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00026-00009378-00009569 number 11
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00027-00009570-00009881 active
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00028-00009882-00010187 active
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00029-00010188-00010721 number 12 secure
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00030-00010722-00011083 secure
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00031-00011084-00011351 number 13
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00032-00011352-00011764 single
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00033-00011765-00012064 single
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00034-00012065-00012281 number 14.
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00035-00012282-00012646 importance
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00036-00012647-00012946 importance
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00037-00012947-00013157 number 15
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00038-00013158-00013463 improve
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00039-00013463-00013780 improve
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00040-00013781-00014015 number 16
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00041-00014016-00014530 family
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00042-00014531-00014753 number 17
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00043-00014754-00015109 perform
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00044-00015110-00015316 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00045-00015318-00015593 number 80
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00046-00015594-00015880 Society
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00047-00015881-00016199 Society
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00048-00016200-00016415 number 19
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00049-00016416-00017039 accept
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00050-00017040-00017243 and last one
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00051-00017244-00017545 20 is Kingdom
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00052-00017546-00017663 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00053-00017664-00018155 Kingdom
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00054-00018156-00018935 of
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00055-00018936-00019144 number one
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00056-00019145-00019469 so far
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00057-00019470-00019955 so far
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00058-00019956-00020129 number two
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00059-00020130-00020789 distance
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00060-00020790-00020969 number three
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00061-00020970-00021647 travel
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00062-00021648-00022233 number four together
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00063-00022234-00022471 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00064-00022472-00022708 number five
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00065-00022709-00023375 police
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00066-00023376-00023585 number six
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00067-00023586-00023921 respect
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00068-00023922-00024358 respect
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00069-00024359-00024586 number seven
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00070-00024587-00024922 standard
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00071-00024923-00025391 standard
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00072-00025392-00025577 number eight
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00073-00025578-00025943 office
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00074-00025944-00026212 office
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00075-00026213-00026435 number nine
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00076-00026436-00026657 sketch
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00077-00026658-00026968 sketch
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00078-00026969-00027508 number 10 initiative
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00079-00027510-00027946 initiative
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00080-00027947-00028139 number 11
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00081-00028139-00028335 active
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00082-00028336-00028457 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00083-00028458-00028751 active
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00084-00028752-00029296 number 12 secure
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00085-00029297-00029693 secure
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00086-00029694-00029908 number 30
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00087-00029910-00030323 single
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00088-00030324-00030635 single
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00089-00030636-00030845 number 14.
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00090-00030845-00031217 importance
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00091-00031218-00031523 importance
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00092-00031524-00031720 number 15
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00093-00031722-00032027 improve
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00094-00032027-00032351 improve
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00095-00032352-00032579 number 16
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00096-00032580-00033095 family
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00097-00033096-00033317 number 17.
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00098-00033318-00033929 perform
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00099-00033930-00034162 number 80
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00100-00034163-00034445 Society
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00101-00034446-00034762 Society
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00102-00034763-00034979 number 19
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00103-00034980-00035321 except
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00104-00035322-00035609 accept
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00105-00035610-00035812 and last one
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00106-00035813-00036227 20 is Kingdom
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00107-00036228-00036389 Kingdom
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00108-00036390-00036656 words
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00109-00036657-00037868 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00110-00037869-00039023 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00111-00039024-00039140 foreign
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00112-00039141-00039801 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00113-00039802-00040249 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00114-00040250-00040339 [Applause]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00115-00040340-00041270 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00116-00041271-00042371 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00117-00042372-00042539 [Music]
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00118-00042540-00042870 foreign
Hopc_6R-Tw8-00119-00042871-00043172 [Music]