On May 22, 2014, with 17 hours left, the game was successfully funded.

The infamous cult Action RPG by one person, and the greatest puzzle game ever made.

223 backers pledged $10,409 to help bring this project to life.

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"bob's game" is a Multiplayer Adventure RPG for PC, Mac, Linux, and Android (Phones, Tablets, OUYA, nVidia Shield, Kindle TV, and more!)

"bob's game" is a forerunner and founder of the indie games movement, originally announced in 2008 for the Nintendo DS, campaigning against the treatment of developers by the big console companies, and overshadowed by the incredible success of Minecraft and games like Angry Birds on the iPhone App Store.

Developed from scratch in C and completely rewritten in Java as an MMO, as far as I can tell, "bob's game" may still be one of the largest games (if not the largest) by one person!

Just as I stated then, I intend it to be the last great "16-bit" game- perhaps the greatest of all!

"bob's game" is a game about a puzzle game called 'bob's game,' developed within the game by the virtual "bob" character, the "final boss" of the game.

It is a hybrid between Zelda, Pokemon, Harvest Moon, and Earthbound, with massively multiplayer elements.

The 'bob's game' puzzle game inside the "bob's game" RPG is a puzzle

game in which you can build your own puzzle games, including all

It is the greatest puzzle game ever made, and the only

puzzle game objectively better than Tetris.

"bob's game," however, is far more than just a game.

It is a living work of art, a decade-long art project that spans websites, consoles, videos, music, books, alternate realities, and real-life events.

It is a lifelong aspiration and a true tour de force masterpiece.

(The work an apprentice makes to become a master.)

It is a game within a game about the development of itself in realtime, paralleled with a real life tournament to coincide with the virtual.

"bob's game" blends the line between reality and simulation, and reality and extra-dimensional reality.

"bob's game" breaks both the so-called "4th wall" and further yet- the "5th wall," unlocking the secrets of "the Matrix," or "the Womb" as it is referred to in some editions of the Bible.

"bob's game" reveals the nature of the universe for what it really is to a generation that needs it the most.

"bob's game" is the most important thing to happen to mankind in hundreds, if not thousands of years.

"bob's game" is the vehicle for a prophecy, written by a

will revolutionize society and change the world.

"bob's game" actually alters reality itself for those who play it.

It teaches the secrets of the heart, the secrets of mind control and

psychic power to a generation that has has the wool pulled over their

."bob's game" is the ultimate cult game.

It is a new religion for the modern world, inspired by and intended as a natural spiritual successor to previous disguised religion games such as Earthbound and Zelda and movie retellings of an ancient spellbook (The Old Testament) such as "The Matrix."

My focus was always on shipping a large fully playable world and I spent 100% of my time running towards that goal- however, there were a few small demos released.

Keep in mind the last demo was years ago and the game is quite different and improved now!

2009 - Demo 1 (NDS) bobsgame_demo.nds(This requires a Nintendo DS emulator or flash card.

The PC demo below includes this demo, so I recommend that one!)

2009 - Demo 1+2 (PC) bobsgame_demo_2_final.zip(Don't give up on Tetrid, there is a trick to it!)

2013 - Project 2 ALPHA (Demo 3) (PC/Mac/Linux JAR) [PC JAR courtesy of GranPC: bobsgame_demo_3_dist_win.zip](This was playable as a Java applet and is dependent on Amazon EC2 servers that I cannot afford at the moment.

I am working on building it into a downloadable JAR.)

Warning: Explicit and mature content!Back in 2004

I started working on an RPG for the Game Boy Advance, written from scratch in C.

I got really obsessed with it, and I had a huge playable world for the Nintendo DS by 2007.

It was a massive project, and I had been isolated and pushed myself insanely hard on it for several years, 12-16 hours a day.

In 2008, after demoing it to Nintendo and turning down a job offer (I'd rather work on my own game!), I showed it on the internet in hopes that I would attract some publishers.

After deciding on one and moving near their headquarters in New Jersey, unfortunately, Nintendo was hesitant to license me- even though I had an office, funds, and met all the qualifications.

I really just wanted to get my hands on the official SDK so I could keep programming on the DS, or decide on a different platform, but they were stringing me along and I didn't understand why.

The iPhone and Android had just come out and it was clear that it made more sense to jump to an open platform.

In early 2009, stuck with a hard-coded game written in C specifically for the DS hardware, and knowing I would have to rewrite the whole thing to get it on other platforms, I threw a meta-protest viral ad thing.

Trying to be like my favorite band Nine Inch Nails recent "Year Zero" viral campaign, I devised an intense and clever alternate reality website that tied into the game story to drum up some attention and try to get Nintendo to license me anyway.

It got the attention I had hoped for, but I still didn't get licensed.

Unfortunately, I hadn't anticipated that the gaming websites wouldn't understand what I was doing- or that they would but wouldn't be sports about it!

After reporting on the beginning of the campaign, they didn't report on any of the reveals, leaving the internet littered with headlines of faked videos with me acting as the villain.

Some jealous people wrote some cruel articles about me and smeared my Wiki pages, trying to ruin my reputation and frustrate me.

It worked- I got defensive and retreated.

I moved away from the publisher and isolated myself in Austin, Texas, trying to fight off my disappointment.

At the end of 2009, I applied for the Sony PSP after talking to a developer representative at GDC who assured me I would get approved.

They declined too, probably because of the wiki articles.

After porting the game to PC, I applied to Steam, who also declined.

Unfortunately, Greenlight wouldn't come out for another few years.

I moved to Silicon Valley, on the advice of a friend.

During 2010, I met up with some game industry people who said they would try to help me.

They introduced me to the heads of GDC and several companies, but unfortunately, it didn't help me get published.

I only learned that the "game industry" (like most other industries) was a criminal cult, and I was being brainwashed!

In late 2010, stuck, confused, and frustrated, I had the desperate inspiration to make my own handheld console.

I talked to the Dingoo company, a Chinese handheld maker, and got them to agree to a $25 price point on a rebranded device with Gamecube-like controls, which I called the "nD."

At first I thought I would only scream the idea out to the world with an outrageous video, my last "battle cry" before my dreams were crushed, but then I realized I was in Silicon Valley- the heart of the tech investment industry.

In 2011, With some models, a website with pledged games, a flashy custom game loader, and my game ported to a hacked up Wiz prototype, I got the attention of some former toy company executives and then sought venture capital.

Unfortunately, although I did get one meeting with one of the "big guys," I didn't get funding in time.

Somehow, they had torn me apart almost immediately, leaving me confused and with no confidence.

The investment industry was even more criminal than the game industry!

In retrospect, that should have been obvious- it's all about money.

I had no idea what I was doing, and I had run out of money and had no place to live.

In 2012, I moved into my friends' spare bedroom and decided to try and make a "portal" application for the prototype nD to connect to, a sort of online "hub world" where people could walk around and play games against each other.

I called it "nDworld" and decided to make it in Java, so it would run on Mac, Linux, and PC without much work.

After six months, I was so excited by what I had made that I decided to make it the full game client, and put the nD on hold.

Android devices were getting so cheap that it would make more sense as an Android handheld anyway, and I could use the same Java code on both!

At the end of 2012, My friends moved to a new apartment and I needed to find a new place to go.

After staying in a scary extended stay motel for a month with my stuff piled in boxes in the tiny room, I asked my parents to pay for a place in the cheapest area I could find.

In 2013, I put myself on webcam again for 6 months and got a huge MMO world running on Amazon EC2.

Unfortunately, my parents suddenly decided to stop paying my rent.

Totally cornered, my confidence completely shattered!

Terrified, broke, and living across the country with nobody I could count on, I drove back to my parents' house in Michigan, emotionally devastated.

I stayed for two weeks before flipping out and driving back, abandoning all my equipment in an argument.

I had no plan and I was confused and in total emotional shock, but I knew I couldn't give up.

In total despair, I stumbled around in a confused haze for a couple of months, and then got stronger.

I've spent the last 9 months sleeping in my car and running at the gym, building myself back up.

I've had to humble myself and learn to accept life as it is, to live with almost nothing, to appreciate what I have, and to truly value existence itself and see the world around me as it actually is- an illusion.

I slowly learned how we are tricked by desire and greed and kept weak and blinded by criminal syndicates.

I realized that is what I had been fighting against the whole time, subconsciously!

Even more incredible, I learned what humans are truly capable of- discovering that we are indeed magical creatures with psychic powers!

It's the greatest trick in history- we are all great wizards, reduced to spending our lives so distracted, we never even realize our own power!

I spent the last month writing a longer, detailed, and explicit version of my journey, live on my website at http://bobsgame.com.

I've tried to be as honest and accurate as I could, and I will continue editing and updating it as my memories come back.

Disclaimer: mature and explicit content!

This Kickstarter is my last chance to continue working on the "bob's game" project.

It is real art in an industry where there is none.

It's OK if it isn't hugely profitable or cutting edge, or even modern at all- even though it was up to par or better than the vast majority of (the thousands of shovelware) retail games for the DS back in 2008.

Without having closure on this project I know that I will never be the same again.

So, I am asking for a small amount of money in order to get a new laptop and to build a "hack van," a cargo van or shuttle van fitted with solar panels, extra batteries, and a bed and workstation inside.

It is extremely sustainable, and turns out to be a pretty common practice in Silicon Valley!

This way I can continue working on and releasing updates for my game for the foreseeable future, without having to worry about bills or a place to live.//------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

# "bob's game" is made up of several parts:

//------------------------------------------------------------------------------------C Client ("bob's game" classic) -This is the original Nintendo GBA / DS homebrew code, which has been ported to PC using SDL and OpenGL.

Because it was originally written for GBA, ported to DS, and then ported to PC (with a complex wrapper system over all the DS graphics code), by now the code is very hacked up and hard to work with.

All the rooms were hard-coded one by one, as I had no scripting support in the tools, thinking I would only have to make a single version - and the goal from the beginning was to program a game the way they programmed the games I grew up playing.

Most of the old NES and SNES games were hard coded this way, room by room, and it seemed like it would be fun!

By now, it's a mess, and all the graphics have changed, breaking all the hard-coded rooms.

This code is deprecated, but I am willing to pick it back up, drop the hard-coded stuff and backport all the scripting support, redo all the graphics code, and refactor it into something nice and clean for an iPhone, PS Vita, or 3DS port.

This is the hacked up, refactored and rewritten "editor.java" that my friend Phil started writing in 2004.

Originally a neat and fully featured 4-layer GBA tile and sprite editor in a single huge Java file

, by now it is an advanced Eclipse project and much of the original code has been replaced.

There are 10 different tile layers including shadows and overlays, support for advanced lighting, an advanced door, hotspot, and portal system, NPC AI and pathfinding, a dialogue editor, support for sprite hitboxes and named animations, a custom scripting language and system, a JSON based file format, and direct preview which loads the current room inside the game client.

This is the heart of "bob's game" and is essentially a custom alternative version of "RPG Maker" written in Java, which can be released and made open source so that others can create their own games- but this would take a lot of cleanup of the code to make it user friendly.

Only I know all the hotkeys and bugs, and I would have to write documentation and provide tutorials as well.

bobsgame_v88xx.zip - A massive bgEditor project file with all of

the "bob's game" assets- maps, sprites, NPCs, scripts, and so forth.

Since all of the rooms were originally hard-coded into the C code, I have a lot of work to do re-scripting all of the original concepts into the new scripting system.

Java Client ("bob's game" online - nDworld) - This is the completely remade Java game client which I started work on at the beginning of 2012.

It was originally intended to be a "hub world" portal system for the nD handheld console.

It has full game controller support and uses OpenGL for graphics, using the same library as Minecraft, LWJGL, and moving to use libGDX.

It is a very polished and advanced client with full Facebook and Google+ integrated multiplayer built in.

It includes a virtual nD console with a multiplayer version of 'bob's game' packed in by default.

The main character is no longer "Yuu" from the single player game, it has a full customizable character editor.

It has a very innovative design, it downloads all assets from the server in realtime as you play, which are very tiny highly-compressed "tileset" formats, which are then generated into graphics on the local PC.

This means that the bandwidth used is incredibly low, suitable for mobile phones being able to load worlds on the fly over a slow data connection.

It also means that hot-fixes to the game in realtime are supported- if a room is changed on the server, the client will download the new version as the player walks in and out of the room.

nDlib -This is the new Java nD API / SDK that all nD games would be made in.

The 'bob's game' puzzle game is written using this.

This would make third party games very simple to create and list in both the virtual nD game store inside the "hub world," and also eventually be playable on a real physical Android-based "nDroid" handheld game system.

I had found that working in Java was so much more convenient than C/C++ that I closed the nD website, hoping to surprise the users with a much more advanced Eclipse based SDK, after the "bob's game" online: nDworld MMORPG had launched.

Users could use the nD API to list their games on both the nD virtual game store and the Android Google Play Store!

However - By this time, I think that it makes more sense for aspiring game developers to use an engine like Unity3D, not Java.

It was a lot of fun to learn to make an engine all myself (both in C and Java!), but I ran out of time because of it!

If I was starting over today, I would probably use Unity3D (or Unreal 4 for a higher end PC title) for the sake of faster development.

For small games or just for learning, it is still a good choice to use Java / libGDX (which the nD API is based on), but I don't recommend these for anything larger than a simple arcade-style minigame.

It is just too much complexity to juggle so many platforms available today for an indie game that needs to reach as many players as possible, practically the opposite of the problem before!

This is the world's most advanced and scriptable puzzle game, written using the nDlib Java library.

Almost any puzzle game can be created using the highly customizable rulesets.

Anyone can create their own dream puzzle game, and mix and match them with anyone else's, making for the ultimate tournament experience.

It fully supports multiplayer games, and anti-cheating verification on the server was in progress.

This will be made into a standalone Java version for PC and Android devices, and a Javascript port is in the works for browser based tournaments!

I may even make a Unity3D version, or even go back to C++, so that it can be made a standard for the rest of computer and gaming history, included with open source game packages and upgraded forever.

"bob's game" online: nDworld intended to let players participate in a monthly virtual online 'bob's game' tournament, the winners of which would be invited to a real life tournament and play on a physical 'bob's game' arcade game.

Server, ServerIndex, and P2PServer - These are a small trio of Java servers that run on Amazon's EC2 platform.

It is designed to autoscale and handle large amounts of users, making use of Elastic Load Balancer and Auto Instance scripting.

Server is the game server itself, which handles securely sending game assets to the client, after checking authorization.

This means that no amount of client-side hacking will allow a player to access areas they aren't allowed in yet or to modify their stats in the game.

ServerIndex is a "supervisor" program which monitors the stats of all the other servers and connects them together, allowing players to connect with friends across the entire server stack.

It monitors resources and boots up new server instances as needed.

P2PServer connects clients to other clients in a secure manner for multiplayer minigames, and provides verification and anti-cheating for in-game tournaments.

Notebooks - A stack of paper notebooks full of doodles, ideas, and to-do lists.

As I spent years working on graphics, I always kept a notebook next to me.

Consequently, every time I had an idea for a cutscene, character, or game event, it would go in here - I would eventually fill more than half a dozen notebooks.

Most of them are stained by coffee and ashes.

The Design Document - Several large Excel and Word files of dozens of pages of condensed game ideas from the notebooks.

I attempted to hard-code many of these ideas into the original C code, but never managed to tie everything together into a coherent, linear narrative.

Motivational Wall Posters - A cardboard box full of handwritten motivational posters which once covered my walls, written in the throes of desperation and madness.

In the past few years, I have kept several PNotes notepad windows open on the right hand side of my screen.

All insane frustrated rants, conspiracy theory ramblings, and various divine prophesies go in here, along with carefully organized To-Do and Completed windows for each subproject.

During the first 5 years of "bob's game," I kept a private development journal, which grew to 7000 pages.

I also kept a manual changelog until I switched to Git commits, which made it a more automatic process.

Emails - My collection of emails- varying from brilliant and courageous to hilariously insane and disturbed- to important corporate executives and investors across the world.

All of these projects will eventually be made open source, ensuring that they become a part of computer and gaming history and continue to be developed and supported forever!

However, it would be nice to make it to one or two of these, so I have a bit of extra leg room.

(Literally!)<$10,000 - I will give up on "bob's game," go back to Michigan, get a job at Best Buy, get my GED at night school, and go to community college.

I will work my way up to a degree in computer science and get a job at a video game studio, where I may someday work on my dream game idea: "bob's game."$10,000 - "Hack Van" - Used cargo van rigged with solar panels and batteries.

It will be cramped in there but better than working in a library or coffeeshop.

This is the bare minimum for indefinite and sustainable (but slow) development of the Java RPG Client and Puzzle Game.$15,000 - Super Hack Van - Upgrade to a Sprinter van with a full size desk and ability to stand up and walk around.

This should make development a lot more comfortable, and I will prioritize Android development of RPG Client and Puzzle Game for phones, tablets, Ouya, nVidia Shield, etc.$20,000 - Real Office -

Instead of a van, I will get a cheap office back in Michigan for at least a year or two.

I will livestream at least one year of development, and prioritize a Javascript port of the 'bob's game' Puzzle Game for browsers- turning bobsgame.com into an in-browser worldwide puzzle tournament.$30,000 - I will pay some (volunteer) artists and programmers to help with development.

I will prioritize adding collaborative network support to bgEditor and distribute the tools to a small group of trusted enthusiasts.$40,000 - I will open source the classic C engine (PC Demo 1+2) for curious hackers and enthusiasts to modify.$50,000 - I will develop the Official 'bob's game' Arcade Game, both hardware and software,and make them available for sale to your local arcade or home - making the 'bob's game' Interdimensional Championship possible in real life!$75,000 - I will develop a C++ backport (or possibly a Unity3D version) of Java RPG Client and

Puzzle Game, possible to port to iOS, PS Vita, 3DS, WiiU, XBOne, PS4,

I will attempt to get my game published on these systems.

(But it's up to them, not me!)$100,000 -

I will open source everything- the entire Java bgEditor, Client, Server, and Puzzle Game.

This will eventually make possible an open source "RPGMaker" system, in which anyone can create and run their own MMO Game and Server, accessible through a Java, Javascript, (and eventually C++) Client!

I will also release emails, To-Do lists, "Motivational posters," and other

various personal and private assets for public examination.

")$150,000 - I will host the First Interdimensional "bob's game" Championship in a convention center, eventually recurring regularly with regional, national, and global tournament events![The

further stretch goals previously posted here are mostly outside of the realistic scope of Kickstarter and, while amusing (but for the most part not actually unrealistic for a large technology company), they don't belong here.

The fact remains that I have no place to work or adequate equipment to proceed, and this Kickstarter is a serious attempt to resolve that situation.]

I'm going to release constant live progress so that people understand where the project is.

I may also release and commit source code as it is written.

There is no guarantee that the project will ever be truly 100% complete, but I can release something tangible and playable right away and continue updating it indefinitely.

My means of supporting myself are extremely modest and with even a small amount of funding I should be able to get the ball rolling and keep it steady with regular donations and purchases from a small fan community.

Learn about accountability on Kickstarter

Original "bob's game" business card from last remaining box, signed by Bob in gold ink.

Dumped on the hardwood floor of Bob's apartment in New Jersey and made to look as if it was dumped in the Nintendo World Store in a widely panned video.

(Any existing $5 or greater backers will also receive a card.)

Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha

South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

By pledging you agree to Kickstarter's Terms of Use, Privacy Policy, and Cookie Policy.

It's a way to bring creative projects to life.

You get access to the full single player campaign when it is available, a premium account for the online service, access to a special forum, and other goodies!

Original NPC character sprite with your name placed somewhere in the game, drawn by Bob.

On November 25, 2013, Pelloni made a Kickstarter for the puzzle game from "Bob's Game", which failed on December 15, 2013, with $477 out of the goal of $6,667. Despite the Kickstarter failing, the game was released on the Ouya on January 1, 2014. Shortly after the Kickstarter failed, Pelloni created a Patreon page, which he later removed. On April 23, 2014, Pelloni launched the first and only Kickstarter for the previously-announced action-RPG "Bob's Game", saying that if the crowd-funding venture was successful, he would invest the money to work from a "hack-van" in order to complete development on the title, and if not, he would put development of the game on indefinite hiatus.


Tobacco and alcohol are also not allowed.

(meta data) TITLE: What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

# What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

## New Order and Old Order Amish share many common practices but differ in various ways

Some may think that the term "New Order" implies something much more modern than "Old Order" when connected to the Amish–perhaps even an Amish group that accepts technology, cars, and modern living.

In fact, as Amish scholar Steven Nolt points out, the New Order Amish would best be considered a subgroup of the Old Order Amish.

The New Order Amish could be described as more progressive than Old Order Amish in some ways, but more conservative in others.

### New Order Amish share numerous similarities with Old Order Amish:

plain dress-New Order Amish dress plainly, though may wear more colorful clothinghorse-and-buggy travel-New Order Amish do not allow automobiles (though are typically more lenient on tractor usage)Pennsylvania

German language-New Order Amish speak Pennsylvania Germanhome worship-church service takes place at congregants' homesban on public electricity-most New Order Amish ban public power, except for the so-called "electric" New Order churchesrestrictions on technology-though actual technology usage may vary, New Order Amish are also careful about which technologies they accept

At the same time, New Order Amish differentiate themselves from Old Order Amish in key ways.

### Differences between New Order Amish and Old Order Amish include:

greater openness to telephones in the home-some New Order Amish permit phone lines in the homemore mission-oriented outlook-New Order Amish print their beliefs in pamphlets and may travel abroad for missions workgenerally shorter beards and hair-New Order Amish are more likely to trim hair shorterprofession of assurance of salvation– New Order Amish hold the belief that one can know the state of his soul while on earth, in contrast to the "living hope" of salvation more common among Old Order Amish

New Order Amish are against the production and use of tobacco and alcohol

prohibition of alcohol and tobacco-New Order Amish are strict about substance use and promote "clean" youth experiences

air travel-many New Order Amish allow travel by airplane, unlike Old Order Amishmore elaborate buggies-buggies may have rubber tires and decorative moldingSunday School and Bible study-Old Order Amish generally do not hold formal Bible study meetingsLower retention rate-a lower percentage of New Order youth choose to join the Amish church

The New Order Amish originate from a pair of movements in Ohio and Pennsylvania in the 1960s.

The key driving factors in the Ohio schism were twofold–one was a belief that controversial practices such as tobacco and alcohol use should be eliminated, and that "clean" courtship should be implemented for youth (as opposed to the practice of bundling found among some Amish).

Secondly, reformist Amish wished to introduce a more evangelical element into the church, concerning personal salvation and mission work.

Amish in this group felt strongly about assurance of salvation, Sunday School, and church outreach.

The division which occurred in 1966 in Lancaster County shared some similarities with the Ohio division, but was more focused on technology.

New Order Amish are less commonly known as the "Amish Brotherhood".

Currently, the largest New Order community is found in the Holmes County settlement, consisting of 18 church districts, while the Lancaster County settlement contains just one or two districts.

There is also a spin-off group found in Holmes County known as the New Order Christian Fellowship, or New New Order.

Nearly 20 New Order Amish church districts are found in Holmes County, Ohio, near the towns of Berlin, Sugarcreek, and elsewhere

New Order Amish churches can be found in a number of states, with the largest population centered in Holmes County, Ohio, home to 18 church districts.

Other New Order communities can be found in approximately a dozen states, including Indiana, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina

Despite what the name might seem to imply, the New Order Amish share many of the same cultural traits as the Old Order.

They drive buggies (albeit ones which may be slightly fancier), wear plain clothing (sometimes with more colorful fabrics and for men, more-neatly trimmed beards and hair), speak Pennsylvania Dutch, and generally do not have public electricity in the home.

New Order homes and barns are similar in appearance to those of Old Order Amish.

New Order Amish buggies may have decorative fronts

New Order Amish may be confused with the Beachy Amish, a group which is theologically similar to the Old Order Amish but which accepts a higher degree of technology, including cars.

### Do New Order Amish use more technology?

New Order Amish may be more accepting of certain technologies such as phones in the home.

Amish researchers Hurst and McConnell note that "the differences in technology use between the Old Order and the New Order are relatively minor" (Paradox, Hurst/McConnell, p.52).

Hurst and McConnell also state that car ownership among Old Order youth is more common, as is cell phone usage among Old Order church members.

Unlike the Old Order, New Order Amish generally do not have any restrictions on air travel, and sometimes use this form of transportation for business or vacation travel.

### New Order Amish beliefs on Assurance of salvation

One theological difference is the belief in assurance of salvation.

Just like other Christians, Amish interpret the idea of salvation differently.

New Order Amish are among those who see evidence for assurance of being saved, as opposed to the more common belief of a "living hope" of salvation seen among most Amish.

There has been some melding of this view with some Old Order districts in Holmes County in particular, and some of the Old Order districts have come to share similar views on this issue.

Another key issue is that of courtship standards for young people.

New Order Amish believe strongly in clean courtship, and as detailed above, this was part of the impetus for the Ohio group to break from the Old Order churches.

In recent times, other Amish, including those from the Old Order have been sympathetic to this view as well.

For that matter, "bundling" (the practice of a courting couple lying together, clothed, on a bed) is confined more to the more conservative Amish groups.

Another area where the New Order Amish are generally 'cleaner' than the Old Order Amish as a whole is tobacco and alcohol.

Though numerous Old Order Amish are against involvement with tobacco, some Old Order Amish do grow and even use tobacco.

New Order Amish universally see this as morally wrong and have come out strongly against it.

New Order Amish feel that tobacco is destructive to the body, and something that Christians should not be involved in, either in personal use or in producing it for others.

New Order Amish take similar views on the use of alcohol, which is used, usually in moderation, by some Amish.

Another distinguishing marker is Sunday School.

Most but not all New Order Amish have Sunday school, involving both adults and children, on the "off" Sunday (the alternating Sunday when a given district does not hold church service).

Similarly to an Amish church service, this will take place in a congregant family's home, and will involve some singing as well as reading, with each member taking turns reading a few passages.

There will also be discussion of the reading, with commentary led by the ministers.

New Order Amish may have songbooks in both English and German, allowing outsiders to participate.

Songs are typically faster and more contemporary than those sung from the Ausbund.

Sunday School is followed by a fellowship meal, like the one that follows church service.

Old Order Amish use this "off" day as a chance to visit relatives or other churches, as well as time for Bible reading and devotions in the home.

However they have generally not seen the need to devote a formal period to Bible study in the form of Sunday School.

Organized Sunday school meetings are another way in which New Order Amish resemble more evangelical strains of Christianity.

### New Order Amish may be more open to outsiders

In keeping with their somewhat evangelical bent, New Order Amish tend to be more open to outsiders.

Old Order Amish of course welcome outsiders into their services as the New Order do, but New Order Amish will be more likely to deliver at least part of the sermon in English.

Some New Order Amish churches, particularly one North Carolina congregation at Yanceyville (now defunct) have attracted a large number of Amish seekers, resulting in a high percentage of members from outside the ethnic body of Amish.

New Order Amish maintain many similarities with Old Order Amish, including plain dress

Other New Order Amish are likely to be involved in mission work and even to travel longer distances, owing to the allowance on plane travel.

Some New Order Amish youth have been involved in teaching English to Old Colony Mennonites in Mexico, for example, while others have done mission work in places as far away as Asia.

Generally the New Order tends to be more oriented to the world and more accessible to the "seeker" community.

This greater willingness to engage the world is even evident in the publishing sphere.

The most obvious example is Ohio bishop David Kline, who has published two books on nature and sustainable agriculture, as well as a small farming magazine which has a substantial audience among non-Amish.

New Order Amish keep a lower percentage of children in the faith

Statistics show that New Order Amish tend to keep a lower percentage of their children in the faith, somewhere around two-thirds (in comparison to the 80-90% or higher retention rate of other Amish afffiliations).

This may be because of greater openness to the world through their outreach orientation, and an ideology more closely resembling "higher" churches.

At least partially for this reason, some criticize the New Order Amish as "Beachy Amish without the cars".

New Order and Old Order Amish disagree less today than in the past

New Order and Old Order Amish are cut from similar cloth and share much in common, including a similar approach to technology, use of horse-and-buggy for travel, and plain dress.

While the New Order Amish may be considered more "progressive" on certain matters of theology, missionary work, and evangelical outlook, and some technology (in some cases), they may be seen as more "conservative" when it comes to issues like courtship, alcohol and tobacco, certain technologies such as the cell phone, and in retaining farming as an occupation, which they do at a slightly higher percentage than members of Old Order churches.

Inside a New Order Amish clothing business

There have been and continue to be substantial disagreements between the two groups.

Old Order Amish may see the New Order as taking a holier-than-thou attitude, and being too forward in their assertions about religion, particularly concerning assurance of salvation.

Hurst and McConnell find that the most common criticism is that New Order churches "are unstable because their young people are more likely to be lost to other Anabaptist churches".

New Order Amish may find fault with Old Order Amish for being too lenient concerning youth behavior, or too reliant on tradition over spiritual truth.

At the same time, in recent years both sides have begun to see more eye-to-eye on certain issues, particularly in Holmes County, where the two groups live side-by-side and cooperate in many spheres.

Hurst and McConnell note that "a sizable number of Old Order individuals, including church leaders, are quite attracted to the New Order positions on both spirituality and control of the youth."

There is also a degree of openness to the idea of assurance of salvation among Old Orders.

The Amish have a long history of schism, resulting in groups such as the New Order Amish as well as more conservative affiliations such as the Andy Weaver Amish church and the Swartzentruber Amish.

However, today many Amish seek to play down differences, seeing past church splits as painful parts of their history, while emphasizing common ground.

An Amish Paradox: Diversity and Change in the World's Largest Amish Community, Charles E. Hurst and David L. McConnell

"The New Order Amish and Para-Amish Groups: Spiritual Renewal Within a Tradition", G.C. Waldrep, Mennonite Quarterly Review July 2008

"Plotting Social Change Across Four Affiliations", Donald B. Kraybill, The Amish Struggle with Modernity, eds. Donald B. Kraybill, Marc Alan Olshan

Growing Up Amish: The Teenage Years, Richard Stevick

Get answers to 300+ questions in 41 categories at the Amish FAQ.

41 responses to What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

This is less of a comment and more of a question, why have they decided that they want to spend the rest of their lives without technology, electricity, or media?

It doesn't hurt anything usually, I just don't get it.

If the question is answered in the article, I didn't read it.

I just think that people should embrace the future, that's all.

I have nothing mean or rude, or curt to say about these people.

I am just not told about this kind of thing often and want to learn more about this interesting religion and way of life.

This is the only religion I know of that has been transformed from just a religion to something more, I find it very satifying to know that some people still have some sense religion wise.

If I could, I would be Amish, but I don't want to give up my technology…

BrendaComment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

Katie I am – may I take a stab at answering your question?

Amish preach/teach that to (1) follow tradition, (2) obey parents, (3) strict adherence to all rules in the Ordnung, and (4) be baptised Amish is the only hope for heaven.

Modern technology therefore is not tradition.

For the most part Amish live the way they do in an effort to work out their salvation.

Your questions are welcome invitations to learn.

Randy TaylorComment on The Amish are truely Christ-like minded (December 3rd, 2012 at 19:34)

All religious beliefs have their own faults & imperfections, but the Amish beliefs are so very close to blissfulness & peace that technology is not needed in their society to operate & function as a community.

So let them live their life without stuff that clouds the worldly minds.

They made their choice so do'nt push worldly garbage onto them.

Regina GreenComment on New and Old Amish (January 9th, 2012 at 19:11)

From living close to Lancaster, PA and having friends who were old and new Mennonites it is easy to see why this wonderful group of people have chosen to live this way.

To just see them, the peace of the Lord is with them Peaceful, devoted, so much belief in the Lord.

Wonderful religious practices, growing and eating so healthy, and doing what the Lord speaks to all of us in the Bible.

Technology is good but it isn't doing people any good.

So much evil is coming from technology that is destroying families and children.

At age 65, we didn't have all the things that children have today and we grew up to be responsible, dedicated, and hard working adults.

Discipline was taught, and respect for our elders of expected.

Yes, I do know what the Amish and Mennonites are peaceful with the way they live.

The best we can do around them, is leave them be at peace, and not ridicule them, which too many tourists have done.

Regina GreenComment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

The way I can answer you question, would be to say it is their deep spiritual heritage.

It is something they don't want to let go off.

The Amish across the board are extremely humble and private people.

Their deep spiritual believes are lived out.

We read the Bible, we know what the Lord expects of us and depending on the deep abiding faith each of us have, and and studying the Lord's Word.

Each of us may choose not to subject ourselves to another way of living.

We may choose not to socialize with certain people, or certain music, or wear certain clothing.

But good to learn about things like this.

I hope someday you will get to witness how the Amish, Old and New, live, by taking a trip just to be around them.

They are not snobby, it's just any facet of their belief.

Regina GreenComment on Katie (January 23rd, 2012 at 12:01)

That is a good question, and I have your answer.

Majority of the "Plain Amish" do not want access to the modern day things we have is because they do not want any influence from the "outside world."

The faith is that strong that only the Lord will lead them and care for them.

In all honesty if we didn't have the TV, Radios, Games, etc. that people from age young to old this nation and world would be in a much better situation today.

Do you realize that we are constantly hearing about shootings, robberies, negative, awful, depressing, things that is warping us unless our individual faith is strong enough to see us through.

Comment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

With all due respect, and I do sincerely mean that, evil is not derived from technology.

Evil people choose to be that way and they come from every walk of life, including the Amish.

I'm a religious Orthodox Jew, and our community is similarly insular and we avoid most media, but there are just as many criminals among us as there are in the next, non religious community.

My personal2 cents is that perhaps if people took the time to know and raise their children, we wouldn't have shootings and rampant drug use and unwanted children being born, but the truth is, as humans, we're all failing at that.

We need to support each other and live well for the Lord despite all we can be exposed to.

The best way to show the Lord is to live for the Lord and I just don't see much of that done with humility, but with self-righteousness.

It's a sad state, but technology and media isn't the root of this evil.

Case in point: my kind, pious and charitable neighbors lovingly raised their children.

One is a meth addict and criminal and never so much as saw a TV show or listened to secular music a day in their life, even today as this person still lives in the community.

Mark — Holmes Co.Comment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

Chasyah, I am Amish and I agree with what you have written.

I can also think of people who have turned out "badly" who were not exposed to "technology" and history teaches us evil existed long before the internet, smart-phone, or whatever.

In choosing to be very selective, I am not hoping to avoid becoming "evil" so much as being careful about what I choose to occupy my thoughts with and how I relate to my fellow man.

Comment on Re: Mark and bad people/technology (May 19th, 2016 at 15:16)

I'm especially pained that the young woman I speak of was sexually abused by a former neighbor who had thank G-d, been in prison since before I moved here.

It breaks my heart and it happens in all walks of life.

I know only a small amount of Amish culture as I've never walked in your shoes, but I have great respect for the Amish and respect their rejection of certain things.

A lot in religious Judaism is similar, only that we generally use most modern conveniences, expect on the Sabbath.

When I visit my relatives north of Philadelphia, I get mistaken as Amish by tourists since we share plain clothes and hair covering in a similar way.

I often have to explain and get lots of weird looks, but I just smile.

On a different note, I'd love to experience a day with an Amish family, especially since I'm disabled and use a wheelchair.

I struggle within my own community because most of us are still in the dark ages when it comes to disabled persons.

It seems to me, the Amish seem generally most accepting, kind and accommodating of their own who have disability.

I'd like to think special needs children aren't shipped off or hidden away like I see in the ultraorthodox and haredi Jewish communities.

I'd love to experience that wholesome, hardworking way of life.

You're doing a great mitzvah educating people like myself!!

AmseyComment on Reply to Chasyah (May 20th, 2016 at 00:19)

Do you realize the message you responded to was 4 1/2 years old.

Mark — Holmes Co.Comment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

I had to chuckle that there are people who mistake you for Amish, as I've had people assume I'm Jewish.

🙂 I was in NY City years ago when a lady (I assumed Jewish) began a very lively conversation with me but I could not understand her.

She didn't seem very happy and I later wondered if she thought I was a Hasid who was dressing or acting improperly.

I don't know how special needs people are viewed or treated in your community, but in ours we use the term "special" and mean it.

There is no reason to push such a person to the side or be ashamed of them or treat them in any was as "less."

Personally I have been humbled by what I have learned from so-called handicaps.

We don't have "special" children but close friends do and learning more about that slice of life has been a blessing.

When it comes to a pure, innocent, and truly special person, I think of our friend's Down's daughter — a real ray of sunshine.

My wife & I have been inspired by "walking with" her parents through the steps of concerns & doubts, acceptance, resignation, and unconditional love.

There are also Amish "handicapped" reunions, just like there are reunions for widows & widowers, dwarfs, teachers, single boys, single girls, blind or deaf people, and any other kind of reunion you can think of.

(Though there does not seem to any reunion for people who do not like going to reunions. :))

Sorry I had pasted Chasyah's comment into my reply box so I could refer to it and failed to delete all of it after writing my comment.

MichelleComment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

I have always been intrigued by the Amish and the Jewish communities.

It was not until now that I realized that I have seen Amish travel quite a few time through my airport (I work in Puerto Rico's main airport).

maryComment on truths (November 15th, 2013 at 10:31)

in my experience of what some might call courting an Amish fellow which in my world is very much like dating i have learned from his family and my relatives who are amish as they would say.

tis better men and women work all day of their lives than lie around like a fat house cat.

putting it in my own words or what i think it means .

they beleive god wants us to be diligent and long suffering as well as keep our minds pure.

Erik/Amish AmericaComment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

Hi Katie, thanks for your question on Amish and technology.

Amish believe we should limit what we use b/c unlimited use of technology can have negative and often unintended side effects on the family, community, and church.

If you'd like to read more on the topic I'd suggest this relatively short piece: http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-use-technology/

You'll see Amish do use a surprising range of technology but there are concrete reasons for the limitations they do have.

kimComment on Technology Can Have a Negative Effect (October 8th, 2011 at 20:01)

I kinda have to agree with the Amish on this subject.

Unlimited use of technology does have negative results on families and community.

But we who live outside in the techno world have embraced it and we really can't stop the impetus.

Jasmine MitchellComment on New order Amish.

Do the new order Amish just live in Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina?

Erik/Amish AmericaComment on Other states with New Order Amish (January 20th, 2012 at 18:18)

"Other New Order communities can be found in approximately a dozen states, including Indiana, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina"

Those other states include Kentucky, Illinois, Montana, and Michigan.

Regina GreenComment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

Hi Erik, Jasmine was a question I received.

I am familiar with the Amish in Lancaster County Pennsylvania.

Just watching the Amish fascinated me and still does.

Such a wonderful, peaceful, group of people with such reverence and strong beliefs in God.

Erik/Amish AmericaComment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

Thank you Regina, I think Jasmine is the name of the lady who asked the question above?

Regina GreenComment on Do the Amish live in Jasmine?

I looked it up on the Internet and only found one site where it stated that the Amish DID NOT live it Jasmine.

Take care Erik. What religious denomination are you?

I was in a hurry and didn't take time to read it after I wrote it.

Do the New order Amish just live in Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina?

Also thanks for answering my question Erik and Regina.

Regina GreenComment on New Amish (January 21st, 2012 at 07:05)

The Old Amish we always considered to be "Old Mennonites" and the New Amish were considered to be the "New Mennonites."

If this is what you are referring to the Old and New Mennonites lived in my home area of PA.

the Old Mennonites still remained rather strict in their attire, lived very plain and some had cars (black in color) and "some" had TV's and radios, but remained pretty close to their sect.

They did have TV's, Radio's and modern appliances, bit did have black cars and lived modestly.

Some did however still wear there little bonnets.

I had become friends with a family of New Mennonites and loved being around them.

Both "orders" are extremely religious and remain close to there Christian faith and are so peaceful to be around.

Now, if there is a newer sect/order of Amish, I am not familiar with it.

Only the "Old and New Mennonites" which are off springs of the original Amish.

That is something I will do was research on, however.

Are you studying this in college, or just curious?

Fascinating to me how I found this question on my email.

Amsey HorstComment on New versus Old Order Amish or Mennonite (January 22nd, 2012 at 15:35)

I grew up Old order Mennonite in Rural Waterloo County, Ontario, Canada.

I have moved far away from that heritage both in physical distance and believe.

I now live in Vancouver Canada in what some of my American friends call "The Left Coast".

If you are in the USA and look North Vancouver is to your left on the Pacific Ocean.

In answer to the question, There are Amish Mennonites who have dropped the name Amish and who identify as Mennonite yet you would not know it if you met them or walked into their homes.

They have, radio, TV an computers just like the rest of us.

There are other churches who have dropped the name Mennonite completely yet can trace their heritage directly to the Old Order Mennonites.

There have been many division within this group.

So of the oldest was the split between Amish and Mennonite.

Most divisions occurred because of disagreements regarding things like cars, Sunday school and many other minor (from an outsider's view) differences.

In Southern Ontario alone there used to be over 30 distinct different groups of Mennonites.

I used to say that all Amish were Mennonite but not all Mennonites were Amish.

However some more recent research would indicate that Amish did not branch off and keep the Mennonite name.

Even with those 30+ different groups one uncle decided that he had to move his family to Virginia to worship with a very small group there that was not represented in Canada.

Mennonites generally are more conservative but conservative is a moving target depending on what you are using for comparison.

Gary LemaireComment on Tobacco (January 22nd, 2012 at 16:47)

Does this practice go on in old and new order?

Regina GreenComment on Tobacco (January 23rd, 2012 at 11:32)

It would say yes, they still grow tobacco.

The non-commercialized ways still do exist, and that's why they may still want to do that.

Also they can trade or sell within their group.

I like to learn all I can about the Amish.

Regina GreenComment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptist (article explaining Anabaptist.

It's is a bit intense reading, but factual.

www.800padutch.com/amishpeople.shtml (check out the tabs too)

kristinComment on ? (August 20th, 2012 at 19:54)

Do the old order amish except the new order amish at all ?? Like as fellow church members ? Or are they completely seperate ?

Rachel LandaComment on Question regarding special needs children within both new and old order.

Question regarding special needs children within both new and old order. ..

I have done extensive reading on both the Old and New Order Amish, but I have never heard how either group handles dealing with special needs children.

Even with modern technology its difficult enough on the outside world.

Amsey HorstComment on How Old order Amish deal with special needs children.

How Old order Amish deal with special needs children.

Old order Amish and Old Order Mennonite are or at least used to be to a large extend farmers.

Mainly their families stay together and usually special needs children are integrated into the families.

I had an aunt who was pass from one family member to another.

She was given the opportunity to contribute to whatever extend she could.

Beyond that she was looked after by family and made to feel accepted and useful or at times pitied.

A greater problem occurs for those who manage to fend for themselves.

Their struggles are mainly ignored and never talked about.

If it can be ignored then it does not exist.

This is a very sensitive and painful issue for me.

StefanieComment on Disabilitys (June 7th, 2013 at 19:42)

I ave autism it the same weather you live in a,amish coummity Orr are when a disability isn't as obvious as other people ave a hader time understanding .like some of my friends are mild then me so it less obvious with them they struggle with people understanding them ,with me it more obvious

Erik/Amish AmericaComment on Amish special needs schooling (December 28th, 2012 at 10:42)

In terms of education, there are various special needs arrangements including classes in Amish schools or provided by the public system.

Here is a link with some relevant info about this kind of education in an Ohio settlement (Holmes County): http://books.google.pl/books?hl=pl&id=1MSzboiBfrkC&q=special+needs#v=snippet&q=special%20needs&f=false

confused studentComment on How would I cite this?

I'm doing a research paper on the new order and old order amish and I am not sure how to cite this in MLA form, does anyone know how to cite it?

MaryComment on Do any New Order still live in Lancaster County?

Do any New Order still live in Lancaster County?

I was just wondering if there are still New Order Amish in Lancaster County, and would appreciate it if someone here could tell me.

Mark – Holmes Co.Comment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

Mary, the New Order church in Lancaster Co. disbanded.

Some members joined other churches or moved to other communities, a few returned to the Old Order.

MaryComment on Mary (January 16th, 2016 at 12:54)

CharlesComment on Info about New Order Amish.

I would like to know more about the New Order Amish communities of Michigan and Montana.

I would also like to know there locations.

I like everything I have read about them so far.

There abstinence of tobacco and alcohol impresses me, there missionary beliefs impress me,there acceptance of outsiders impresses me, and there outlook of salvation impresses me.

These characteristics impress me a whole lot more than old order Amish.

None of what I have listed above is characteristic of old order Amish.

I was raised in an environment that was never at anytime peaceful.

There is nothing I have ever wanted more in my life than just a quiet peaceful Christian life to live.

I can not think of a better way for a Christian to live out his life that is not surrounded by alcoholism, fornication, adultery, daily profanity, lies, deceit, and death.

I would also like to know more about the Old Order Amish that live in Charlot Michigan and Homer Michigan.

I have met these people and even thou they are old order, they seem to be very peaceful in there daily lives.

BriannaComment on What's the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?

Now i realize it is not their way of life, but that they value good food without chemicals and other toxins.

As far as the Christian part goes, that is a big reason why it no longer appeals to me.

technology is a double edged sword, on one hand, you can learn a lot about people and other things (online dictionaries) on the other, you dont excercize, and it makes you lazy.

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The New Order Amish are a subgroup of Amish which is close to the Old Order Amish. Some scholars see the group best characterized as a subgroup of Old Order Amish, despite the name. New Order Amish split away from the Old Order Amish in the 1960s for a variety of reasons, which included a desire for "clean" youth courting standards, meaning they do not condone the practice of bundling, or non-sexually lying in bed together, during courtship.


It took five years to make the film and three years to write it.

(meta data) TITLE: Rajkumar Hirani: I am really nervous with PK - Rediff.com movies

Rediff.com » Movies » Rajkumar Hirani: I am really nervous with PK

# Rajkumar Hirani: I am really nervous with PK

Last updated on: December 15, 2014 18:02 IST

Rajkumar Hirani, who rules critics' hearts as much as he rules the box office, is back after five years.

Sonil Dedhia listens in as the filmmaker talks about PK (without dropping the cloak of secrecy of course).

Rajkumar Hirani wears his trademark smile, as he walks into the UTV office in Mumbai.

He is one of the most successful directors in recent times -- at the box-office and with the critics -- but readily admits that he is feeling the pressure to deliver another hit in PK.

Hirani, who returns to the theatres after five years and a mega hit like 3 Idiots, sidesteps questions on the subject of PK but opens up about its making, an Inception-like project that had to be scrapped and his plans of making a biopic on Sanjay Dutt.

The more you succeed, the more you want people to love your efforts.

So the only film I was not nervous about was Munnabhai MBBS.

It was my first film and I was just happy with the thought that I have made my first film and my friends and family have seen it and appreciated it.

Since then, I have always been nervous before the release of all my films.

I remember when 3 Idiots was about to release, I thought it was a shit film and my previous film Lage Raho Munnabhai was far superior (laughs).

The good thing is that the film has a unique story and I am confident that people will love it.

What prompted you to turn producer with this film?

I have produced my earlier films too, though my name did not appear in the credits.

Vidhu Vinod Chopra, who has produced my earlier films, is still a part of PK and is presenting it.

He is not a hands-on producer -- he used to put a certain amount in the bank and give me the cheque book.

You are one of the very few directors whose films have done well at the box office and been appreciated by the critics as well.

I want my film to be loved and I would want people to talk and remember my films.

My last film (3 Idiots) released five years back.

If I had to look at the box office success and just earn money, then I would have made five films in the past five years.

At the end of the day, you don't remember Mother India or Pyaasa for the business it did, you remember them because they had a good story to tell.

In your case, all your films have a certain kind of newness that bridges the gap between the classes and the masses.

I cannot reveal anything about the film.

There are no benchmarks in Hindi cinema to give you an idea about PK.

Abhijat (Joshi, the co-script writer) and I have consciously decided that we will make fewer films, but with every film we will give a unique twist to it.

We don't really have a formula to make films we just do it with our gut feeling.

There were reports that the film was similar to Oh My God (2012) and you had to scrap the project.

Later there was also news that the film deals with certain societal issues and is on the lines of Aamir Khan's television show Satyamev Jayate.

The only thing I can tell you is we are tackling a unique issue relevant to our society.

I can tell you one incident which is not related to PK.

Abhijat and I were writing another script and it turned out to be pretty similar to Inception.

We had written a story where our central character had the ability to get into an other person's mind and make him a better human being.

One day a friend of ours told us to watch Inception.

After the film ended, Abhijat and I couldn't get up from the seats as one year of our hard work had gone to waste.

Eventually, we decided to scrap the film.

So, how many drafts did you write for PK?

You know my constant joke with Abhijat is that we always have a never ending script so we have to be forsake it.

On the day of the film's release we realise we cannot write and make any further changes so we abandon it (laughs).

You won't believe that our prints are getting ready but just last week, I realised I could improve one line in the film and I called up Aamir (Khan) and asked him to dub for that line again.

How involved is your family with your work?

My wife Manjeet is not very clued into the film industry, but she likes to watch films.

I am sure she has watched more films than me (laughs).

My son Vir, who is 16 and still in school, is very much interested in filmmaking.

He has made a short film called Return Gift.

During his school vacation, he came for PK's shoot in Rajasthan and worked as a clapper boy.

The nude poster of PK created a lot of buzz, but some people objected to it.

I want to ask a question to all the people, who found it offensive.

From which angle can you see nudity in the poster?

Are people watching through the transistor that Aamir is holding in his hands?

The problem is that people don't understand the difference between nudity and vulgarity.

When you see the film, you'll realise the importance of the poster.

For me, it's a very interesting-looking poster that signifies the film.

I was amused when people complained about nudity.

Image: Aamir Khan and Rajkumar Hirani on the sets of PK.

I love to play with languages in my film.

Earlier you had seen Sanju (Dutt's nickname in Bollywood circles) speaking the Bambaiyya language.

I love the fact that as a country we have so many different milieus that it just adds to the character of any film.

I feel language gets out a lot of humour.

How was it working with Sanjay Dutt in PK?

I was hesitant of casting Sanju as it is a very small role.

His name is Bhairon Singh, an owner of a local band group in Rajasthan.

I wasn't convinced with anyone and finally I decided to call up Sanju.

He was so positive and told me a yes the very first moment.

He also cancelled his other shootings to be a part of PK.

He would land up on the sets earlier than his call time.

I remember the first time when Sanju walked in on the sets I made an announcement that Aamir and Sanju are working together for the first time so let's applaud them...

When they both stood together Aamir realised how tall Sanju is and he jokingly mentioned to me, 'Raju mere ko cast kar le Circuit ke role ke liye (cast me as Munnabhai's right-hand man Circuit, played by Arshad Warsi).

I think I would have looked good in it.'

Your next film is going to be a biopic on Dutt's life.

We were supposed to start working on other projects, but Sanju's story caught my interest.

He had returned home on a three-month parole and that's when I met him.

I discovered that although I did three films with him, I only knew 1 percent of that man.

I called him again the next day because I was very moved with whatever he told me.

Abhijat and I sat with him for 25 days to know his full story.

I used to edit PK, then reach his house in the evening and be there till 3 am every day.

There's so much about him which he has never shared with anyone.

Image: Aamir Khan, Rajkumar Hirani and Sanjay Dutt on the sets of PK.

Are there any facets of his life that you are going to showcase in your film?

There is no way that we are doing this to glorify him.

Neither are we doing this to show him in bad light.

We will show what it is, in a very straight manner.

One would be shocked to know that so much can happen to one person in a lifetime.

I am still meeting his family, friends and collecting material, researching things about him.

So, definitely, we cannot show all phases.

We will touch some and leave some phases and characters out.

Are you planning to make the third part in your Munnabhai series?

I want to make the third installment, but that will happen only when Sanju is out of jail.

As of now, I don't have plans to replace him and Arshad.

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For many years, we were struggling, until we finally found a way, where it will be entertaining, won’t be offensive—will hit the right notes, basically.
 —Rajkumar Hirani, director of "pk", in an interview to India Insight.[20]
 After the success of "3 Idiots", director Rajkumar Hirani and writer Abhijat Joshi started work for the next project. They had written a story about a character who had the ability to get into another person’s mind to make that person a better human being. They spent one year to write a story, but it turned out to be similar to "Inception". After watching "Inception", Hirani and Joshi were shocked by the similarities. Eventually, they decided to scrap the film, then Hirani and Joshi reworked on the script, changing the entire tone and angle.


Additional new operas are currently in the development phase and will receive their premieres in 2018 and beyond.

(meta data) TITLE: Megan Levad, Kate Angus & Joe Pan — Berl's Brooklyn Poetry Shop

(meta data) PUBLISHED DATETIME: 2016-06-12

Megan Levad is the author of Why We Live in the Dark Ages, the first selection in Tavern Books' Wrolstad Contemporary Poetry Series.

Her poems have appeared in Tin House, Granta Online, Fence, Denver Quarterly, the Everyman's Library anthology Killer Verse, and London art and fashion magazine AnOther, among other publications.

She also writes lyrics and libretti; she and composer Kristin Kuster will premiere their first opera, Kept, in 2017, thanks to support from the Virginia Arts Festival's John Duffy Composer's Institute.

For several years after receiving her MFA from Michigan, Megan was the Assistant Director of the Helen Zell Writers' Program, hosting the visiting writers series and teaching creative writing.

Kate Angus is a founding editor of Augury Books.

Her poetry and nonfiction have appeared in The Atlantic, Tin House, The Awl, Verse Daily, Best New Poets 2010 and Best New Poets 2014.

She has received the A Room of Her Own Foundation's "Orlando" prize, as well as awards from Southeast Review, American Literary Review, and The New York Times' "Teacher Who Made a Difference" award.

Kate is the Creative Writing Advisory Board Member for the Mayapple Center for Arts and Humanities at Sarah Lawrence College and curates the "Pen and Brush Presents" reading series for the visual and literary arts nonprofit Pen and Brush.

She has received residencies from Interlochen Center for the Arts in Michigan; the Betsy Hotel's Writer's Room in South Beach, Florida; the Wildfjords trail in Westfjords, Iceland; and the BAU Institute in Otranto, Italy.

Kate has a BA from Brown University, an MFA from The New School University, and has done additional studies at Yale University, Barnard College, Columbia University and Trinity College, Dublin.

Born and raised in Michigan, she currently lives in New York.

Joe Pan is the author of two collections of poetry, Hiccups (Augury Books) and Autobiomythography & Gallery (BAP).

He is the publisher and managing editor of Brooklyn Arts Press, serves as the poetry editor for the arts magazine Hyperallergic and small press editor for Boog City, and is the founder of the services-oriented activist group Brooklyn Artists Helping.

His piece "Ode to the MQ-9 Reaper," a hybrid work about drones, was excerpted and praised in The New York Times.

In 2015 Joe participated in the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council's Process Space artist residency program on Governors Island.

Joe attended the Iowa Writers' Workshop, grew up along the Space Coast of Florida, and now lives in Williamsburg, Brooklyn.

R.A. Villanueva, Aracelis Girmay, Emilia Phillips & Hossannah Asuncion

The Festival's John Duffy Institute for New Opera seeks out and supports the work of opera composer/librettist teams by providing professional mentorship and a professional process for the development of their new work, with the intent to see the works through to full productions. In May, 2016, the Festival will present the world premiere of Kept: a ghost story, a world premiere performances of the new opera "Kept: a ghost story", at Norfolk's Attucks Theatre. Created by composer Kristin Kuster and librettist Megan Levad, the work was developed over a three-year process through the Duffy Institute.


In Israel the show airs on yes Drama channel and on Cellcom TV.

(meta data) TITLE: In reality, 'UnReal' shows who really runs the show - Television - Haaretz.com

(meta data) PUBLISHER: https://www.facebook.com/haaretzcom

(meta data) PUBLISHED DATETIME: 2015-06-14IDT23:05

ElectionTerror attackIsrael strikes IraqLone soldiersTlaibU.S. anti-SemitismProud BoysProfile

# In Reality, 'UnReal' Shows Who Really Runs the Show

'UnREAL' proves once again that reality shows are anything but, and that the goings-on behind the scenes are what really counts

#### Send me email alerts for new articles by Michael Handelzalts

Someone always gains at your expense.Courtesy

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Fascination, just as beauty, is in the eye – and the mind – of the beholder, so I hope you will bear with me when I tell you about my fascination (which has nothing to do either with "fascism" or with "nation") with the UN.

No, not the acronym, which stands for the United Nations, the organization that has been trying, since the end of World War II, to set norms of conduct and oversee the behavior of many, some of them most unruly, nations.

The "un" I have in mind is not even a word in its own right.

It is a prefix, an appendage placed before a word you write or utter, to denote the negation or undermining of the accepted meaning of the same word.

It is an unmasking of the word (which describes an object, notion or concept), unveiling a different, second, deeper pattern, according to which a system operates, thus making us constantly aware that things are not as they seem to be.

Or, to put it differently, that our notion of the world as it seems to us to be, is probably, most of the time, being manipulated by someone.

If this is indeed so, the only thing we can do is to try and understand who is doing the manipulating, and why.

I pursued this line of thought after watching most of the second season of "UnREAL," which ended earlier this month on Lifetime in the U.S., and on both Yes and Cellcom TV in Israel.

The premise of the series is to test the limits to which you can stretch the very flexible notion of something being "real," by giving viewers a peak – actually inviting them to rush right in – behind the scenes of a reality TV show.

What you see on screen, posing as a "slice of reality" – are "real people" being monitored constantly as they behave within a set situation.

In effect it is anything but real, since what viewers see is being constantly manipulated by unscrupulous showrunners for personal or corporate reasons.

The basic idea of showing the innards of a TV show in progress is nothing new.

"The Larry Sanders Show," starring the late Garry Shandling, started the trend in 1992.

"UnREAL" goes further: It takes place behind the scenes of a fictional reality TV show called "Everlasting," in which young women vie for the heart (and body) of a male suitor, like in the real-life TV series "The Bachelor" and "The Bachelorette."

In the first season we were introduced to the whole set, which is of course a setup.

What actually happens in the fictional mansion and the basic idea of a reality that looks spontaneous and unpremeditated, can turn out to be the result of behind-the-scenes manipulations.

These are mainly aimed to create emotional outbursts from the human beings involved, as that is what creates a buzz and busts the ratings.

The havoc it all wreaks on the real people involved be damned.

As we already know by now, those reality shows are rigged to begin with.

The contestants – the suitor and the women – agree to be there because each one of them has his or her own reason, which may be the desire for 15 minutes of fame, or a need to change one's self-perception.

The story that "UnREAL" seemed to be telling in its first season was mainly that the same principles of human manipulation exist behind the scenes.

The "Everlasting" reality show was created by Quinn King, the ambitious, unscrupulous and cunningly uncanny producer and showrunner (Constance Zimmer), who is grooming (and enslaving and torturing and nurturing) a disciple, the emotionally unstable (actuallyconstantly on the verge of a nervous breakdown) Rachel Goldberg (played by Shiri Appleby, the star and pivot of the series).

But if the question that hovers constantly in the air when "everyone is manipulating everyone" (a phrase from the second season), is who runs the show or who is the manipulator-in-chief, "Everlasting" turns out to be one long feud between a series of competing showrunners, all of them constantly striving to out-manipulate the others.

Chet, who had an affair with Quinn and problems with drugs, was sidelined and comes back to regain his kingdom.

There is Coleman, appointed to run the show as Quinn and Chet, former lovers, are locking metaphorical horns and trying to run the show in different directions.

And then there is Gary, the network president, and John, the network owner; there are Jay and Josh, a producer and a cameraman respectively, both of them romantically (and sexually) involved with Rachel.

The groundwork was laid in season one, in which the emotionally unstable Rachel is brought back on the set, after "an epic emotional meltdown."

The second season built upon the intentionally shaky foundation that had already established another level of fake reality.

In the eighth and last year of a black president in the White House, "Everlasting" boasts of an unprecedented TV event: The suitor in its new, 14th season is black.

He's a football player with a dire need to polish his somewhat tarnished public image, and that's why he lets himself be manipulated into taking part in something he – and here, he and Rachel are basically in agreement – considers to be "trash TV."

Rachel, with all her personal problems, lures herself into an illusion that by utilizing reality TV, she can influence popular American worldviews and make an African-American male an acceptable and even coveted trophy for American women, on prime time.

It gets even trickier when the "real" reality – in the form of police and ambulances – arrive on the scene.

Then it turns out – don't worry, no spoilers here – that manipulating reality may be a tad more complicated than manipulating people on a TV set, and that "reality" has its own unpredictable way of manipulating all to fit within its inscrutable aims.

As the American presidential elections are nigh, topical references abound: One of the so-called "Ladies," Beth-Anne from Alabama, is brought to the set to be "Donald Trump with boobs"; another one gets there to advance the Black Lives Matter agenda, only to find that love and lust matter as well.

A third season is already commissioned, so we will have chances aplenty to wonder who manipulates whom, when, how and why.

As long as the "moneypulation"– getting the ratings (16 million viewers for the fictional "Everlasting," about 0.5 million for the real "UnREAL") – works.

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The series is available to stream on Stan in Australia and on Lightbox in New Zealand.
 In the United Kingdom, season 1 aired on Lifetime. From season 2, the show airs on Amazon Video a day after broadcast in the United States, with season 1 also available for streaming.


Inez joined the band again for their West Coast and Japanese tour in 2003.

(meta data) TITLE: Former Ozzy/Alice In Chains Bassist To Tour With Black Label Society - Blabbermouth.net

# Former OZZY/ALICE IN CHAINS Bassist To Tour With BLACK LABEL SOCIETY

According to www.zakkwylde.com, former OZZY OSBOURNE/ALICE IN CHAINS bassist Mike Inez will be playing bass for BLACK LABEL SOCIETY during the group's forthcoming West Coast dates and subsequent Japanese tour.

In related news, a message on the same site states that a "major announcement" will follow soon regarding the bassist position in OZZY's band (presumably referring to Jason Newsted).

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TIM 'RIPPER' OWENS: People Who Say Hateful Things About RONNIE JAMES DIO Hologram Are 'Miserable'; They 'Don't Like Anything'

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#### TWILIGHT FORCEDawn of the Dragonstar

History.:1996–2004: Hiatus, side projects and death of Layne Staley.

The set contains 48 songs, including rarities, demos, and previously released album tracks and singles. The band also released a 15-track compilation titled "Nothing Safe: Best of the Box", serving as a sampler for "Music Bank", as well as the band's first compilation album; a live album, simply titled "Live", released on December 5, 2000; and a second compilation, titled "Greatest Hits" in 2001.
 In November 1998, Layne Staley recorded a cover of Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall" with the supergroup Class of '99, formed by guitarist Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine, bassist Martyn LeNoble, drummer Stephen Perkins, both from Jane's Addiction and Porno for Pyros, and keyboardist Matt Serletic. The song was featured on the soundtrack to the 1998 horror/sci-fi film, "The Faculty".
 After they toured as part of Cantrell's solo band in 1998, Sean Kinney and Queensrÿche guitarist Chris DeGarmo formed a new band called Spys4Darwin. Mike Inez and Sponge lead vocalist Vin Dombroski joined the supergroup soon after. The band released their first and only album in 2001, a 6-track EP entitled "Microfish". In June 2001, Mike Inez joined Zakk Wylde's Black Label Society for the remaining dates of Ozzfest, following the departure of bassist Steve Gibb due to medical reasons.


Krispy Kreme is set to open its first Taiwan store at the Xinyi Vieshow Cinemas Complex in Xinyi District, Taipei on 12 December 2013.

Krispy Kreme Doughnuts to open first Taiwan store in December | Economics | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

FOCUS TAIWANCNA|Español|フォーカス台湾|Mobile|Business|Publications|Service|PhotosjapaneseespañolSome 10,000 households without power due to BailuTaipei households rank as top spenders in

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# Krispy Kreme Doughnuts to open first Taiwan store in December

## (From Krispy Kreme Taiwan's Facebook page)

U.S.-based Krispy Kreme Doughnuts will open its first Taiwan store in December, filling the vacuum of American donut chains left after the departure of Dunkin' Donuts earlier this year.

Krispy Kreme Taiwan declined to give further comment than the company's Facebook post, put up earlier in the day, which gave the most specific information to date: "Coming to Taipei in December.

"According to information from the company on a local job site, the new store is set for Taipei's bustling Xinyi District.

Kirspy Kreme is looking for both full-time and part-time employees as it plans warm-up promotional events starting in mid-November, the recruitment ad says.

Founded in North Carolina in 1937, Krispy Kreme now has outlets in the United States, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, Colombia and several other countries.

The company's main competition will be Japanese chain Mister Donut, which with over 50 stores across Taiwan has been the only major donut chain in the country since Dunkin' Donuts withdrew.

Dunkin' Donuts, which opened in Taiwan in 2007 and had 30 stores at its peak, closed its 19 remaining outlets in February.

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They became engaged in 2015 and married in 2017.

(meta data) TITLE: Real-Estate Maven Kurt Rappaport's House in Malibu | Architectural Digest

(meta data) COPYRIGHT: Copyright (c) Condé Nast 2019

This article originally appeared in the June 2014 issue of Architectural Digest.

Considering the impact of the film industry on the economy and psyche of Los Angeles, it's only natural that denizens of this glittering town tend to view just about everything through a cinematic lens.

Even houses have their analogous counterparts in the movies—there are edgy independent projects, lavish period pieces, high-minded foreign productions, and so on.

As for the Malibu home of real-estate czar Kurt Rappaport and his fiancée, model Sarah Mutch, there's only one word to describe it: blockbuster.

Spread out over six acres on a majestic bluff overlooking the ocean, this extraordinary house occupies a world of its own, far removed from the humble beach shacks and stately manses packed cheek by jowl along other stretches of the Pacific Coast Highway.

After turning off that celebrated thoroughfare, toward the water, one descends a gently sloping drive through a landscape dotted with freestanding concrete pillars that ease the transition from exhaust fumes to Eden.

The pageantry of the entry procession makes it feel as if one has arrived at a modernist Luxor—think Cecil B. DeMille by way of Louis Kahn.

The house itself—a long, linear expanse nestled discreetly into the hillside and facing the sea—barely reveals itself to the street.

(Sodded green roofs further that mission.)

A masterful composition of intersecting planes and volumes, the structure marries the gravitas of concrete piers and walls with the lightness of glass.

Floors and ceilings of white oak coupled with antique granite pavers in outdoor areas lend texture and warmth to the starkly modern scheme.

"I'm obsessed with the ways that buildings express the subtle qualities of the materials used in their construction," says architectural designer Scott Mitchell, who began working on the project shortly after Rappaport acquired the land in 2006.

"This house is all about honoring the integrity of concrete and glass while creating a rhythmic interplay between those materials and the landscape."

The architectural language of the 15,000-square-foot house, which encompasses a sweeping living room, a master suite with a luxurious bathroom worthy of Hollywood royalty, a wing of bedrooms for Rappaport's children, and a basement with a game room and a home theater, is reiterated in an adjacent pavilion containing two guest suites.

Outside, the 168-foot-long infinity pool is said to be the longest residential swimming pool in California.

Set into the lush lawn and sheathed in black granite tile, it resembles the monolith from 2001: A Space Odyssey tipped onto its side and stretched—it's a knockout.

"Considering the breadth of the site and the linearity of the house, the pool had to be a big gesture," Mitchell says.

1 / 13Evening at the Malibu, California, home of real-estate entrepreneur Kurt Rappaport.

The architecture and landscaping are by Scott Mitchell Studio, and the interiors are by Denise Kuriger Design.

The sprawling estate represents the most ambitious solo commission to date for Mitchell, a longtime collaborator of talent manager turned residential designer Sandy Gallin's on projects for such high-powered clients as studio chief Jeffrey Katzenberg and music mogul Jimmy Iovine.

Mitchell first teamed with Rappaport more than a decade ago, when he renovated a historic Beverly Hills dwelling that Rappaport then sold to Tom Cruise.

But it was the crisp, beach-friendly scheme Mitchell conceived for the Nobu restaurant in Malibu (later completed by two other firms) that convinced the entrepreneur to hire him for his own home.

"Scott has a vision attuned to contemporary life in L.A.," Rappaport attests.

"Originally I wanted a two-story Shingle Style house with a Hamptons vibe.

Scott talked me out of it . . . mercifully."

As construction on the home progressed, Mitchell brought in New York interior designer Denise Kuriger, with whom he had worked on previous assignments.

The two came up with a decor that was not only sympathetic to the architecture but also tailored to the Southern California climate and the personalities of the convivial owners.

"That was the first thing I told Kurt: It has to be a house for young people," recalls Kuriger, an alumna of the offices of Victoria Hagan and the late Naomi Leff.

"Yes, it's a grand house and an important house, but ultimately it needed to reflect the spirit and energy of this incredible young couple."

In practical terms Kuriger interpreted that mandate with a broad array of midcentury classics, Art Deco pieces, quirky vintage finds, furnishings with an industrial edge, and a few complementary 18th-century antiques, all united by their emphasis on clean lines and understated forms.

One leitmotif of the decor is homages to Jean-Michel Frank, a 1920s and '30s designer renowned for melding historical and modern styles in dashing fashion.

Kuriger and Mitchell's tributes to the French maestro include a parchment-and-walnut waterfall-edge desk in the study, an oak center table in the entry, and, most amusingly, a pool table outfitted with a variation on Frank's signature pineapple legs in the lower-level game room.

Accenting this largely monochromatic assortment—"It runs the gamut from beige to beige," Kuriger jokes—is a collection of vivid contemporary artworks by the likes of Damien Hirst, Ed Ruscha, Richard Prince, Sterling Ruby, and KAWS.

Rappaport downplays his contributions to the creation of so much gorgeousness, insisting that he, like any good movie director, assembled a talented team and simply demanded the best.

"I compare the making of this house to the filming of Titanic," he says.

"We didn't know how long it would take or how much it would cost, but we were certain it was going to be great."

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Sarah married real estate businessman Kurt Rappaport. Kurt is the CEO of the Beverly-Hills based Westside Estate Agency.