it we were very lucky we thought that we were trained and that we are living and surviving and every day was fantastic day and eating chocolates if you could and uh you know it was good time badam Christmas we're all youngsters and everybody was but by then every day about three four people would be hit by chill billing or frostbite insomnia unable to a severe headache not able to eat not snow blindness can't see so it was terrible every now and then these people despite being trained they would become casualties because most of the casualties on the glacier are because of weather not more so because of firing so this was uh the 27th and Mrs I'll tell you then the battle so when Mrs Gandhi saw all this and uh was the overall Task Force Commander my force was called the zorawar fossil so we were one thing and the Pakistani is they used to call themselves the Brazil Force Brazil so not busy and uh the Brazil pass there they call this


busy and uh the Brazil pass there they call this Aboriginal phosphere of course is I got a call from he he also supporting his normal pasta as a brigadier he was also Mount Everest climber and you know excellent climbers so he told me Sanjay come down no you're a very nice person am I supposed to come down it says have had to go back again so he said that I don't know it takes Camp you have to first come to petrol base then cam 3 Camp 2 campaign then I come to the base camp these four five days of walking I have to do and moment I reach base camp will again say Sanjay upper charger so again I have to walk back I said don't joke with me like this you know so and the conversation ended he thought probably since he was a colonel I was India captain and over there a little informal so next year again he said have you started walking back I said no I am still there is it you better come down fast I said


there is it you better come down fast I said sir how am I to come down you harness until you give me a helicopter left I don't mind coming down and you can again induct me uh so I said no no you come down uh you have to go to Europe I told your message sorry why because it would it was improbable for a young you know I said officer what uh I said you know try to keep me happy amused or something like that he said and I forgot about it again he called me in the afternoon have you started I said started I said sir you're joking me you made me laugh foreign I should be here only he said you come down and he said you have to go to Europe Mrs Gandhi has decided to send you to Europe to five countries you have to go as soon as I got down I was sent for my Visa and passport and everything I went to France I went to Germany I went to Switzerland I went to Italy and I went


went to Switzerland I went to Italy and I went to Austria and uh Mrs Gandhi saw this national flag and she said who it is so they said this youngster is there crypto okay so I went to Europe as part of our team which was to buy equipment they said since he is now aware of the equipment that has come from Europe he can also suggest certain ways to see that what more modifications are required and I had my first trip abroad and courtesy did you go back south then to the mountains no I didn't go back because by then by 90 days because I was inducted in April and you know generally on top of uh we send people for nine so when you were there uh you could look in into the shakskum valley yeah now the shakscum valley is not towards Bella foundler for sucks come Valley I saw it later I was again posted there is Chief of Staff of 14 Corps and then that time I flew over Indira Cole so when you're


time I flew over Indira Cole so when you're flying on top of Indra you can see the shaks come Valley and I could see the green grass imagine I was flying on top and I saw the shakscum valley which had been seeded by Pakistan to China in 63 which is adjoining the siachen glacier and in the valley is the kunjara pass through which comes the karakoram highway which now has this China Pakistan economic Corridor which connects it to guada and comes from kashgar from kashgar comes down to kunjara pass goes along baltistan runs along goes as part of karakoram Highway then becomes China Pakistan economic Corridor and then joined the gwada that part of India where Indians can't go yeah that Valley yeah that the pakistanis had to seat to China because to settle the boundary dispute in a park China has a boundary land boundary with 14 countries and only two countries they have not settled the boundary dispute with India and Bhutan these are the only


dispute with India and Bhutan these are the only two countries with all other uh countries which they have a border with they have settled the boundary dispute and give or take mostly take never give so pakistanis lost shaks come Valley and settle the boundary dispute with China and karakoram passed with which we refer to from India 9842 had that succeeded it would have had Pakistan China and India at that rise up so one question I had for you that you know I was reading about in one of your interviews you said that you did your early schooling in Karachi and then you left Karachi and came to India and joined uh balbhati then Air Force Center school and then sriram College of Commerce so how come you were in Karachi see my dad was posted in the high commission over there and during the 62 War we were there in Karachi the India China was all of it but by 65 we are back in uh India and that was a time for the first time in the Indian uh High commission


for the first time in the Indian uh High commission a certain number of people were told to leave Pakistan in 96 hours or was it a 72 or something like that and uh similar number of men who have ever told to leave Pakistan similar number of men from India also what I've been told because that's a very reciprocal thing but that was for the first time I had memories of the aircraft coming from uh India you know bringing us back to Delhi so by initial schooling uh was in Karachi we were staying in on Clifton Road what is now where you find it is something like what we call lithium Delhi so Clifton Road in Karachi is like that and we were I was studying in a school called Wendy's School the britos lived I think yeah everybody the top notch of Pakistan are on Clifton Road including are you watching he also stays on cliff guarded heavily by the park Army for him but uh that's the way and I studied in Wendy's school which


way and I studied in Wendy's school which was not very far and uh why did India Pakistan do this because the war was with China the India Pakistan okay thought that it is an opportune time because India has lost to China and that nothing better and he used to think that used to call Indian topiwalas and you'd be surprised pattern tanks your Sable Jets latest of artillery equipment all that started coming to Pakistan from United States and all of it was being assembled you would come in shipment to Karachi this is preparation for the first one the second one 1465. it is just that you can have equipment but to use it in a manner like a professional it takes a lot of time but you were just a child at that time and your parents told you what that we're going back to India yeah going back to India and while going it was fantastic you know I have I think we went in a ship while going we went in a ship Karachi to Mumbai Mumbai to Karachi and


ship Karachi to Mumbai Mumbai to Karachi and took quite a I think may have taken over four or five days it was fantastic as children were enjoying on the ship Khana Pina Masti while coming also it was damn good whether in herosters who came with a tray with a lot of chocolates I still remember I I asked how many can I take this Air India probably right yeah take as many as you want so it was free for all thereafter yeah so Karachi was the consulate uh out there right no no we had an embassy I Commission in Karachi subsequently that Islamabad as a capital came up that now you have Karachi virtually as a counselor but those days it was uh and I think the Ambassador was not the present the old it's called G patasati it was also India foreign you know I have memories of his in the high commission Jana picture they would have a big screen and screening movies for us Bismillah coming and playing Chennai all these actors actresses coming


coming and playing Chennai all these actors actresses coming there you know entertaining us because there was a lot of human contact which is going on in the 60s yeah nothing in fact what are you did in 65 was quite a stub in the back because Ayub Khan is not he was very good friends and uh well but he thought he always thought he you know even if you read kasuri's book on uh neither a hawk nor a DA that also he says that these two call Indians baniya he mentioned the word baniya so he chose to be a call for all Hindus Banias so that is the way uh he said but it was accepted nobody minded it it was well accepted and you know the Indians would call them musla it's just kosuri himself those were not considered pejorative terms in those days today you don't say that but actually if you listen in uh to some of the commentary that comes in from Pakistan they still say that Hindu you know in fact uh but together


that Hindu you know in fact uh but together Jane dixit's book also says that that you know when he went visiting to a Pakistani home in Karachi uh they turn around and they the kid turns around you know because kind of uh this thing in Pakistan I think came a little later because I have distinct memories of the books that were there in Pakistan at that time it didn't have that kind of a hated then as much now that I think yeah yeah I think it is leading India with a thousand cars that radicalization that you know kind of Islamic Republic of Pakistan and all that kind of a thing and the hatred for the Indians develop now and now you find that the education system in Pakistan is to absolutely hate hate and hate so I've met many Foreign Service officers who you know served in Karachi served in Islamabad and they always have stories to tell about how the Aisa used to go you know follow them around and all that do you have any memories at that


and all that do you have any memories at that time you know in the 60s yeah I do have uh what my father told me then you know they would meet and interact not with the isi but with people in the cricket stadium in the football stadium you know go meet each other there and exchange information with not the isi about isi they would have somebody telling you basically 100 there's no question I still remember I have memories of that Chana churam you would bring it in the newspaper yeah or in that steel a steel level Iron Cow but you know of course they would be coming and feeding and very nice you can't mistake you know because I remember someone in Islam about me and you know I I a journalist and I we were we were there we would cover the events during the day so weird people is to go to Jenna super which is one of their markets to shop around and they would be this one man who would come so the second day when we were going we


come so the second day when we were going we were we two more journalists were there and this man was still standing there so we just turned to him and said so he says the guy actually came with us because they didn't have their tail didn't thought so he came and sat in our car and he came with us this is unfortunate that Pakistan has turned the weight has done I have such lovely memories I remember as a child I would be talking in Marathi my mother tongue with my father and uh asked him for something yeah I want this or I want that you better buy this for me and that and uh you would say okay let's go that chap who's selling would speak in Marathi back sometimes telling my dad that your son is asking for it in marathi's talking why don't you give it to him my father said how do you know Marathi he says I've lived my life in Mumbai I've shifted to karachino so they could speak Marathi so fluently that it


so they could speak Marathi so fluently that it would shock us so there is nothing that you could do in good thinking if you are talking in code but I'm talking with my father in Marathi and my father is talking to me Marathi nobody understands no he is understanding everything because he's born and brought up in Mumbai interesting you know it is unfortunate I would even look back and say unfortunate that as a nation had Pakistan not turned radical the way they have turned radical and had they not been instigated and again that instigation comes from China is the Chinese instigated Pakistan when the Sharks come Valley was being handed over it is Pakistan was being advised by China that look you two people look alike you talk the same language why don't you do what we have done in 62 to them and that is what prompted Ayub Khan to do what he did in Kashmir so the all this instigation because uh somehow the Chinese wouldn't like India because of British imperialism and


wouldn't like India because of British imperialism and they thought that we were all talking English and you know we are not what we are supposed to be and this thing so much so that when Pandit nehru was visiting China for the first time he was being briefed that the word of command in the army or English standardize attention and it was turned to savdhan and vishram because the Chinese may not at a point of time thinking British foreign he's extremely upset he said what is King George 5 doing over there but when Queen Elizabeth came in 62 uh 61 or something like she was thrilled that her grandfather of others this thing is you know they're in the canopy and in 68 Mrs Gandhi had to remove King George under pressure and it has taken us how many years over there just see the indianization and the uh you know that love for our own culture love for our own history understanding it takes many years and many years for people to keep lying also not telling you the truth


people to keep lying also not telling you the truth of what has happened as I told you 10 orange used to be staying there and how he was listening and Jenna was all set to celebrate Eid in Srinagar when The Invasion took place he was told very clearly yeah up Shallow you stage forward you will celebrate Eid in Srinagar 27th of October we have signed the instrument of accession that we will take that but third of November when the uh Srinagar Airfield yeah it is you had it not you know the defense uh how else could we have gone across to Srinagar there was no uh we have to cross over and it was snowing it was it's November you have to go back to think yeah November and you can't cross the only way you could go to Srinagar was by air and had we not got that Airfield we would have lost we'd have lost Sri Lanka if not for the way the troops were being inducted all my everybody was inducted by


being inducted all my everybody was inducted by air imagine at that point of time all aircrafts in India wherever they were very Jam air Indian airlines that was all made available to just transporting troops to Chicago yeah that is how we could protect other things we have lost yeah and all planned orchestrated for Pakistan by the British in this aurangzebling and by the British and Orkin lake is the commander-in-chief and you have a British uh chief and you have India also but the divide and rule until recently we had this Auckland Lake Seneca ramgaret Delhi Delhi station and uh you'll you'll be surprised Orkin Lake was under so much of pressure walking Lake's wife ran away with the air marshal and the question she went with air marshall this is getting very interesting because he she went with the UK's Air Marshal Orkin Lake was deeply hurt his wife had left him and now married the air marshal offer you mount button knowing fully well this has happened he sent the Air Force Chief


this has happened he sent the Air Force Chief duck to UK and Orkin Lake unable to withstand finally left India in December of 47 and this is the history why the Air Force teams houses away from the rajaji Markley yeah there's trouble otherwise you know whose house is next to this thing the UK High commissioner's house is joined the chief of army stuff yeah I always wondered why that happened because at that time you know they wanted to retain obviously they wanted to see the South block and the team Murthy and everything by being there and also there is still there and everybody ignores it but now it's come the British High commissioner's house is again in the Limelight these days but well that's another story there's a lot that in history which we need maybe all uh nothing very uh this thing but it affects a human mind so is somebody who's commander-in-chief would he not know what the pakistanis are doing would you not know what the Indians are doing would he not alert the Indians


Indians are doing would he not alert the Indians look the pakistanis are doing like this the Raiders are going to come and are going to attack would they not know that muzaffarabad is going to fall so soon and that they have already got about five to ten thousand people uh who are afraidis and all these people from the uh the Raiders from baluchistan and all over to invade India answer in today's context would the britishers not know that the khalistanis are coming to create why do you think thank God why do you think the government of India removed that those barriers from their uh this thing residences over here just to tell them it's a messaging that if we are protecting you we expect a similar kind of reciprocal protection of our missions abroad if you don't protect our missions abroad then I'm sorry we will also have to remove this barrier we will protect you so General Brad I had on the podcast uh and he was attacked in London by khalistani absolutely


he was attacked in London by khalistani absolutely he survived in his General vaidyas after General Valdez death it was he says I'm like I don't know when I'm going to die because I know for certain they will kill me when is the matter he said this on air when I interviewed him because he was and he till today so he opened the phone and showed me he still gets uh death uh threats from the khalistanis because he doesn't stay here he stays in Mumbai yes but he stays in protection still which is absolutely which is so hard and after we lost General vaidya I think it was like he was the chief in 1984. yeah blue star I remember when I went to for my investigator of Shara chakra he was the chief so so good memories but then it's just too bad you know these kind of things yeah let's get back to uh operation this did not sit well with the pakistanis they kept fighting and there was 1987 was this major


kept fighting and there was 1987 was this major assault when he was himself their uh SSG and uh as a brigadier by then he had been promoted to Brigadier and he had taken over he lost attacks one after the other and he failed in all the attacks and that's where bana earned his param vir chakra that's where you found a lot of mahavi chakras and V chakras being given subsequently uh for these battles over there and it was around the same time 23rd of June 84 the pakis lost attack again 23rd of June 1987 the party is launched the 23rd June by law is supposedly the longest day so you have uh you know clear day almost till about 8 30 40 to 9 at night you can see great distance so you have the longest day is the 23rd of June and that is the time twice the party is attempted and that is where at all times Park is lost and to create loss of this and that is where you found Benazir uh you


and that is where you found Benazir uh you know trying to tell Pakistani army Chief and the rest of them yes in 1989 I think it was when she stormed in supposedly into GHQ and she told uh and you can't dislodge any unnecessarily time to throw weight over us you can't even dislodge the Indians these kind of sharp things that she said to General Musharraf he didn't forget it she paid for it she paid with her life her father also humiliated and because he humiliated and uh foreign did not forget that humiliation and he lost his life and similarly Musharraf also did not suffer that humiliation by whatever Benazir had done and though of course it can't still be proved but the fingers are pointing towards musharra that she lost her life too yeah that when when he when she said to him that was a direct insult to the Pakistani armed forces and he's trying to instigate them that you people are unnecessarily being harsh on the pakistanis but when


unnecessarily being harsh on the pakistanis but when it comes to fighting with the Indians you are losing everywhere and look what's happening to unciation since 84 you're not able to do anything so this kind of a thing by the politicians in Pakistan have not been taken well by their armed forces and they have suffered and sir we were talking you were saying 27th of April the first attack first uh yes the first firing firing the Pakistan and uh 23rd June 1984 was the first attack by you know something you've taken me back uh those days on the uh 26th of June you know they fired with their mortars on top of Belafonte and obviously when they fired the top of Belafonte under 20 uh 22nd of June 22nd of June that fired on top of this thing and I said okay fine if they're fired I knew something is a mess so I told my boys I said please dig your trenches digging trenches was only clearing the snow everything is all snow


was only clearing the snow everything is all snow there and one of my boy was called jalandria because uh even though kumoni he had spent a lot of time in Punjab in jalandha so we used to call him came and told me you know in the morning we would all be occupying our trenches at about 4 30 around first night Casper I'll clear the trench and you will see it clear but forget about today I'm not going to clear it but I'm tired so I said you have to do your job here he said sir you know he prevailed upon me by his talk and I said okay in the morning you do it so that was on the 22nd of June 23rd June there was a boy called chanchal and he was on the front edge of belafonda and suddenly a boy came to me and he told in the morning at about four o'clock uh sir dushman dushman I had uh passed orders to the boys who were patrolling on top of Belafonte that


boys who were patrolling on top of Belafonte that every wanna you must come and say giant to me or Ram to me or whatever are your greetings because now the boys will mix some boys greeted ram ram like in the Kumar regiment we greet each other Ram Ram Sam greeted Jehan you know some greeted because there were Sikh troops with me on there so I said whatever beer is comfortable to you and getting but you must greet me everyone and I must reply I must reply or I must say whatever I have to say I will reply if I don't please see that I am dead or alive because possibly I may be dead and you may not know so so every time they would come after Vana and this was going on for months on so they would come they say ram ram sahab Jain Saab you know Satya Kasa like that so when he came at four o'clock dushman absolutely white so movement on the glacier early hours of the morning could be spotted and he


hours of the morning could be spotted and he said I said who told you he said he had gone to clean he was a Sentry he was Sentry over there so he saw at night he could not spot it but probably at the cover of night they came as close as they could and now they had to climb the the to come on top of Belafonte now because on the 22nd of June they had fired with their mortars on top of her I fired my mortars now since I had fired my mortars in the 22nd the blade this plate of the malta had sunk and had you know formed and by morning the it was the snow becomes ice absolutely like you know it's very difficult so it had to suck now I find that Sherlock the first shot hit chanchal on his head and chanchal was normal no obviously there because there he saw that there is movement that has taken place on the post and that this post is alert now the attack is a short failure


post is alert now the attack is a short failure because either they could have only assaulted us attacked us if you were sleeping so there's no way these people are all alert they have already occupied position and the firing had started so now chanchal that is the only casualty I had on the glacier two more had been wounded one got shot on the leg and yet another was shot in the arm and all of us and then we repulsed that attack and a few about a dozen plus the pakistanis they had wounded and they attacked existing that was on the 23rd of June 1984 that the attack was repulsed and after that subsequently they kept attacking we had de-inducted and then subsequently the other they keep trying to come up the cliff they're wanting to come and occupy because occupation or Bella fondla was very important for them but they during this interim period they had occupied a height which was overlooking yeah so they used to call it the uh a little difficult that made


to call it the uh a little difficult that made our helicopters come for Logistics Supply difficult because no he was on a height of height and that they got this Lord by bana and his party of Jacqueline and it is that dislodging of the pakistanis from there and subsequently the post being named banatop and he having earned a param vir chakra is great because to be able to fight at that height to be able to beat that in a Pakistani attack I can't understand because I did that on the 23rd of June 84 and similar action in a more difficult terrain a much more higher height and being able to dis you know discreetly be able to sneak in so close to them and kill them I think it was wonderful so bana top is also part of operation make dude yeah I thought the operation people started getting to know because a lot of casualties started coming in and most casualties were very casualties not more of firing the first was the casualty was


more of firing the first was the casualty was of course Ramesh and the first firing casualty was and before this and around May uh what you had a question to that there's Bill uponla and ciala and there's a place called we had lost 19 men in another lunch we had lost one officer and 18 other ranks of 19 Kuma in an avalanche at gyongla so it was terrible because we were losing men to weather and we were losing men to firing and each one of us at that point of time and you find the conditions are extremely extremely difficult difficult primarily because of the sub zero which goes very low minus 50 when the wind chill factor which is there plus no water because at night everything will freeze water will only be there so once stuff is virtually perpetually on in a tent at least water pineappani pina colada then even though you have chocolates you have the works you have all the dry fruits around in your tent you can't eat this is no


around in your tent you can't eat this is no appetite everything turns hard egg will turn Like a Stone in a rock you can hit each other and probably you'll get hurt the same age you made it so it is very very difficult but then by then what you are asking a lot of research went and and the drdo and the rest of them started making food which was which would be eaten immediately like chapatis chapatis would come uh in a nice pack thing and all that we need to do is just put in hot water and we put the chapati in hot water take it out cut that thing and you to eat chapatis you could eat pulao you could eat McDonald's yeah then everything was pre-cooked everything that came was pre-cooked all that yesterday we put was in hot water and in that boiling water it was that's with the Satchel all this came from their lab in Mysore and myself all of it you find that uh you know the uh children today we have all these


you know the uh children today we have all these varying diapers these diapers is nothing but when people were sent to moon and when you have to use this long time those men the astronauts have to wear something to sustain themselves so we find children today wearing diapers diapers nothing but from this Mission which is going to Moon you find that and and the food which is prepared for siachen soldiers is now going to go on the gaganyan yeah same same lab is saying that and the same food helps today so all these kind of foods which is available on the market so one question I have to ask you which we were mentioning that it seems a little odd that you know Indira Gandhi signs off on operation make duth in April she does blue stuff are in May and she's dead by November can you join the dots or wow again if you see what channel is that keep Punjab burning and they could link up with China the aim was not that they are not linked up because


aim was not that they are not linked up because they had given uh hunza and they had given rally to uh China but they wanted that link up at which was accepted as a border between India and China now the pakis were also because of the Hudson's line the Hudson did not draw I don't think they would have drawn the line keeping all this in view but that have drawn it primarily for you know identification or aircraft more that ADI is that what they call it so the to ensure that the aircraft pilot knows that is now flying into another country because the courts change everything changes so they know so it is with that intention that the pakis were looking and now you suddenly find that as 76 kilometer wedge between uh China and Pakistan is India sitting on CIA Glacier the then now Chinese have ensured that the pakis can do no mischievancing because the yoga problems which is completely Muslims over there at this point of time they fear that the pakistanis might do


of time they fear that the pakistanis might do a Mischief they don't trust Pakistan much that they may say the Friendship is deeper than the ocean sweeter than the honey all that is perfectly fine but they don't trust us and that is the reason why you find that because of the cpec and the karakora highway which Musharraf mentions it as the eighth wonder of the world with the Chinese were building and constructing which suffered there was a huge damage and a huge earthquake took place in that area and because of which the karakoram highway had completely been washed away and now you realize that the karakoram highway the Chinese are there now you find in the park occupied Kashmir the Chinese are sitting there sitting because in the gap of wanting to construct the cpec wanting to you know repair the karakaram highway it is not with that intention that is one the second is to ensure that this access the buffer that the parties don't send terrorists to think


buffer that the parties don't send terrorists to think Young because that's the only way that is connected to them so Chinese are also very apprehensive because Chinese were themselves surprised when they found some from Yuga Province part of Isis so there's a whole lot of things happening around here you find that the kalistan movement being supported by isi from Pakistan it even now being supported Uhaul haq wanting to say that we will bleed India with a Thousand Cuts so that is still all you find in 84 all this happening you find that the Soviets are in Afghanistan the Americans wanting to throw the Soviets and Pakistan is helping America with mujahideen's 84. everything so you find geopolitics absolutely and there's a cyclical thing to it you know sir I'm going to come to in 2000 and the lessons learned from operation make dude though it's still on as you were saying but still the the start of the operation and what we have learned from that you know in


and what we have learned from that you know in 2005 Dr Manmohan Singh said let's make siachen a peace mountain and I quote he says nobody fears any threat 2005 he says nobody fears any threat there is no scope for conflict and this place becomes an example of peaceful environment that's what he had said now how long will we allow these conditions to Prevail in siachen because of the number of men we were losing both sides were losing and he said now the time has come for us to make efforts to convert this battlefield into a peace mountain and he added talks for going on with Pakistan in this regard of course there was no there's no information about where the talks were leading who was conducting the talks it was just said like this in hindsight now I mean so many years have passed do you think it was it was right could it ever have been turned into a peace mountain in courts definitely no big no for a reason you can't trust Pakistan firstly and


for a reason you can't trust Pakistan firstly and secondly you're occupying Heights why would you want to lose Heights in mountains it's all question of heights sham Saran has mentioned a part of it in his book The Foreign Secretary of India he has mentioned somewhere to say that the Army was also on the board and you know the prime ministers this thing and that thing I don't think the uh at any point of time he would know more because he was the foreign secretary but I would say that we wanted uh you know if at all uh such a thing we would want Pakistan to firstly accept and be able to confirm where they are because they were saying all along that they're on siachen once they identify by now that we have the means to identify where the troops are it would be clear that Pakistan is nowhere to see action and then we would turn ah people would turn around and say okay whoa that mitti is not no no not at all you know you see what happens is


at all you know you see what happens is that Glacier looks the same everywhere so you can't possibly be doing you can make bahubalis you know things can be done anyway yes so that that doesn't make the pakeezah wanting to see that yes they are nowhere near Seattle and you don't trust Pakistan at all you know Pakistan is who do you trust in Pakistan who runs Pakistan the politicians can't be trusted because they don't know what is going on remote control or the real control is with the pakami you can't trust the park Army because pakami by a by and large is always using terrorism as an instrument of State policy I saw you control as it says himself but so Pakistan is not a country which can be trusted at all distrust and you wanted to lose the height imagine hindsight imagine the kind of ah you know the feeling of that it's an asset test for a soldier you ask a soldier today he takes pride in saying I served on why does he say yeah


saying I served on why does he say yeah though he's serve in 90 days maybe some a little more but the fact that you have said no first woman officer on Glacier stays 90 days or will be staying 90 days why do does everybody say so because you take pride you're testing your human endurance as you can you survive can you do something good and all that and if you can survive that has helped us a great deal in fighting in eastern why are the Chinese on the line of actual control by China control because all the troops more or less since 84 by now would have experienced the action because if they are staying only for 90 days and you have to turn over the troops quite sizable number of them would have served on CIA and kamba if you have served on siachen and lived and you can teachers 10 minus 75 you could live in a rarified oxygen you could live in this kind of weather conditions where blizzard over there and positions where you can't


where blizzard over there and positions where you can't eat you have snowballiness you can't sleep you can't see you can't breathe you find it difficult to talk you Define difficult to touch anything if you can survive there and still be vigilant and be a Sentry on the post and be able to say the dushman has come you think Chinese can face India because for them you find that these people are up and about confidence only comes when you have gone through all this this kind of weather terrain inhospitable Terrain terribly inhospitable terrain each one of us so he's thoroughly like what he said acclimatization so everybody in the Indian army is acclimatized to fight at those great Heights without you know we can say we have an army of Mountaineers who can totally deployed from Eastern the Lac or the loc is all alongside all along the mountains only most of it and therefore it is a great experience that the Indian army gets by being on top of Sea action at the


gets by being on top of Sea action at the same time Pakistan cannot be trusted and thirdly when you're occupying Heist why would you want to lose Heights those kind of troops again you have to learn you see what happened in kargil why was Cargill launched yes that's what I was going to come was Cargill a Revenge uh for what had happened in siachen did Musharraf think that we lost and I I have to say face absolutely it is because he said I must show the Indian armed forces in poor light because he as uh SSG Commander failed all his attacks failed one after the other as a brigadier field and now he was the chief of the Army staff so much so that will prime minister vajpai is being introduced by Nawaz Sharif he refuses to salute the Prime Minister look at it what's going on in his mind because he was already thinking of kargil he already knew what he was going to be doing in kargil and therefore you find


to be doing in kargil and therefore you find that this man thought that occupying Cargill Heights would be a quit procure for what the Indians had done to them on siachen it wasn't to be the pakistanis could not fight the Indians on siachen and are nowhere near Seattle but we fought hard to regain our Heights on kargil but of course at what cost yeah at what cost so therefore in mountains whoever occupies Heights must not vacate those sides and therefore to say so that we can make it peace Mountain definitely not I don't think as long as the neighbors are what we have and we can't change our neighbors they did Pakistan or China we might always be alert 24 by 7 and I would say four wand is forearms I will quote you in which you had said capacity building takes time intentions can change overnight 100 capacity if you see how much time is taking even to occupy Bella foundler the helicopters can take maximum to now the helicopters don't even


can take maximum to now the helicopters don't even take two they sometimes take only 15 kgs of 50 kgs per flight only 50 kgs or if the me 70 is flying bigger then they're dropping they're not Landing so this small ones are taking only 50 kg a man weighs more than that so that means you can take only one man with nothing so just see the amount of logistics involvement the porters the helicopters cells not easy so once you occupy this great ice so capacity building takes time now if you are there eyeball to eyeball and Mirror Image deployment in ladakh opposite the Chinese you think the Chinese will venture anything wrong despite what they did at galwan they did attempt to do that at the Yankees what did that show that they are probing we have to be alert we have to ensure and what better training and what better is a kind of motivated troops that we have the kind of training ground that we have the kind of training that we impart the kind of


the kind of training that we impart the kind of equipment that we give the kind of modern equipment weapon you know the kind of food that we are giving the living that is available today the kind of hearts that we have constructed for them centrally heated things that are there communication facilities available where Fernandez would even tell the bureaucrat that before you sign a file on siachen please make sure that you have seen the action if you have not seen session don't say anything about raksha mantri George Fernandez who went to see urchin and who experienced that in not many people thought that George Fernandez equipment and go there is one defense minister who's got maximum number of time on siachen because he realized that if these troops are there it's very essential why does the Prime Minister go why doesn't we are with you and once you go there your eyes are enough to show you whether the morale is high or low so also the civilian leadership unless they see on ground what the troops


leadership unless they see on ground what the troops need till then they can't sign off on stuff like you went uh General Hoon went and got all those uh all that equipment now had he not seen it had he not told uh venkatraman who was the raksha mantri and had he not told the prime minister they would because we for us in the way Indian army is the civilian leadership has to sign off on everything right so I think uh maybe that is probably the reason why uh you know the Army always wants the civilian leadership to go to the forward areas and another thing is you know after all we are we were not uh a very developed Nation at that point of time GDP wise we are not as strong as that we are today if we are amongst the top five is great because we spend about five crores per day uh to sustain our proposition so today it is Affordable but those days it probably was difficult to sustain and therefore the need is you know


to sustain and therefore the need is you know all these talks peace mountains but you know cutting down on costs even when you talk of T to tail ratio here to sustain 10 men on top of Bill of online probably whatever tail which is of 40 to 50 men then only can you sustain those 10 men so when you say cutting teeth to tell ratio and wanting to you know ah cut short the arm it's not easy because the terrain that we all operate in is extremely extremative you can't have your tanks and bmps and weapons starting in the morning but that's the even in uh on Lac we have these problems right keyboard diesel Valley uh yeah keep it warm we have to ensure that the equipment is functional the time when you start talk like either start over here you can't now be Insurance it has to be on for whatever the number of hours it's supposedly only then the equipment is functional so it's not easy to be able to fight or deter your adversaries on such


able to fight or deter your adversaries on such eyes so you know you lost uh man you were talking about chanchal and you talked about Ramesh uh when they passed away I'm just bringing the human element into this that you know that there is one thing about tactical moves which have to be done but you know like when Cargill happened uh at that time our soldiers passed away we didn't have this all weather coffins to bring back our soldiers and those had to be imported and at that time I still remember that you know there was this whole talk that coffee that what is it how were these built-in-hour bodies of our soldiers uh the last how were they sent back and what happened after kargil see what happens is those these wooden coffees will be made then the wooden coffees are heavier to carry also plus obviously you have to cut ensures that so much of wood is available and then if it has to be transported the government had taken a decision that


to be transported the government had taken a decision that the body must reach the family if it has just reached the family earlier we would like in 84. most of the people who died in level unit pay cremation cremated them there only and you just sent a telegram to the family saying that Ramesh and chanchal got cremated their base camp yeah and you mentioned about Ramesh you know I remember when we went for the investiture ceremony and because he had got Kitty chakra possible so his wife was carrying a small baby about seven months just seven months baby and years later years later his brother called me up to say that that little baby has grown up and he wants to join Pokemon oh okay I said nothing like it what a fantastic that lady hadn't married at all and she was carrying this seven month old baby who must have been she herself must have been about maybe 19 or 20 small her father-in-law was from the Kumar regimen her father was the Kumar regiment


Kumar regimen her father was the Kumar regiment is one of is one of the oldest regiments decorated the first person incidentally viewers our office is on somnath Marg and so when General mentions this this office is exactly where uh you know the road is Major somnath Mark and you'll be surprised both brothers were younger team are still alive yeah one of them retired as the chief of the Army staff so the other one retired as the engineering Chief the one who's engineering she will turn 100 this year will be a little lesser than that and both of them that's what may God give them good life and long life stand straight and recollect no loss of memory whatsoever yeah and their brother was the first of November 1947 and imagine his 2023 the brothers are alive and they know everything because they were also the one who is alive at 99th plus we'll turn 100 he was a captain when major somnath Sharma was a major in the Army he was a captain in the Army


in the Army he was a captain in the Army so imagine and their father a general his father was a general Army Medical Corps yeah so I'll come back to this this whole Cargill what experience from uh siachen uh did we learn and uh use in Cargill and what have we learned and used on the Lac you would think that all that's happening in galban and in arunachal first of course the troops themselves right it's very essential acclimatization behind the weapon is very important you could have the finest of weapons the finest of modern equipment and what have you but if the man behind it is not mentally tuned and his morale is high he must be physically fit and mentally robust to be physically fit and to be mentally robust it's very essential that he must be familiar under the circumstances he's supposed to be operating in so when he sees all of it he knows it he if it is he can sort of protect himself you know though


is he can sort of protect himself you know though we have buddy system each one of us if I'm trained into being able to identify that suddenly you find that he's not talking much or is showing symptoms of high altitude sickness immediately we tell the doctor or pick up the phone and tell he vomit to lose height you start improving yourself so all these kind of things which come there now you realize how much of weight can you carry how can you sustain yourself at that great height you understand how Logistics are important because it is not how much it is after all to bring even the 15 kgs of Atta at that great height you so many people are required and each one of them will be handing out to the other person and otherwise is flying in so numbers are important I remember self that we keep shooting them and cockroach in the sense that the reason they use the word cockroach was that you are not going to stop more and more men will come even if they get


more and more men will come even if they get shot it's not easy you know it's very easier said than done when you see a man in front of you dead or wounded and you're still carrying on not easy you have to be trained you have to be very motivated to see to it irrespective what it is and that only comes when you know for sure that your family will be taken care of and that Soldier knows that his family will be taken care of even if he's a bachelor and he's died his family gets over a crore and if it is mother or father they get the last patron of that boy as if he's still in survey wife gets it children are taken care of money comes in so the man knows he is so foreign but financially the family is taken care of and that Assurance I think is a huge motivating factor in India in India the nli lost so many very sad they would not even identify their bodies they would not even take their bodies we wrapped


they would not even take their bodies we wrapped them up in Pakistan if likes them told them that is where it is I remember in Cargill there was an officer by the name of Captain taimur you know General V K sings company officer retired as Lieutenant General a colleague of mine left and his Battalion 27 rajput that he was commanding they had killed Captain taimur and the party occupying a height of five seven seven zero I'm talking five seven seven zero meters when I'm saying in meters you have to multiply by 3.3 to know the height in feet feet so you can well imagine at what height they killed taimur was well born with a silver spoon it his grandfather was in London father was a brigadier and so they wanted his body and they wrote that please get his body and send it to us we would like to have they moved back I remember telling them why just his body we'll send all your bodies by not only him all your Pakistani


your bodies by not only him all your Pakistani bodies are lying with us please take them all yeah and we wrapped all of them in the Pakistani flag and send it and they accepted all of them I said not only taimur why taimur and the others Pakistani soldiers I said a soldier is a soldier you must Respect the Dead and please take they took all their bodies so just want to ask you you have been you uh you mushaira failed as a kernel as a brigadier then as a general in between as a major general Lieutenant General any failures with India um for him you know what what would have happened he would have been a co-commander okay and uh the other things he would have been in touch with Nawaz Sharif was the man who made him made the chief of the Army staff and uh well I don't know because he is a different kind of a person but I do remember reading in a book in which uh Nawaz Sharif was very known to give very


uh Nawaz Sharif was very known to give very expensive gifts to the co-commanders and especially the core Commander so that you know he they are keptical numbers don't have me hanging from commanders in Pakistan would themselves be saying because he would give them BMWs give them brand new BMWs that is the way Pakistan is run so you have the prime minister of Pakistan driving his gifting his own Commander so that they are kept in good humor and uh there it is so you have all these kind of stories I don't know much about it so we are General we kissing out here and uh we were talking to him because you know I quoted once he had said that as a military commander he kind of had a respect for General musharra because he came 11 kilometers inside India and he stayed a night because I mean foolhardi moves that he had done but he was like he was like so to motivate his men he came in and 11 kilometers inside and he stead stayed the


and 11 kilometers inside and he stead stayed the night now you tell me at that time I said it wasn't it foolhardy for him to do that and general Wiki Singh said that sometimes you need to do these kind of things is that true see what happens firstly of course uh himself and you do need to motivate your people who he himself subsequently said they are not my men yeah he disowned his own men and nli the Northern Light infantry and we call them terrorists or you call them's word for all his terrorists no there's Heroes whom he called them he disowned them we had to virtually plead that please take back your bodies otherwise we will give them a good funeral that is not a problem we Respect the Dead and we will give them funeral but they are your men they accepted so definitely I would say Musharraf at that point of time to motivate his people you would have done that anybody would do that to motivate his men in whichever form that


that to motivate his men in whichever form that they wish to get motivated or I think they require that kind of motivation that's perfectly fine but as a general he let down his men totally without fail as a chief thing that he should have done he should have owned his you know even the kind of uh ill treatment that he gave to some of our own officers whose bodies came subsequently they kind of think that they're done I think it was not expected of a country who are our neighbors now what is Yusuf Musharraf himself his own death nobody knows what time his body is flown in from Dubai how quietly the funeral has been given nobody knows other than the family where so obviously a man who did not look after his men in the manner he should have finally found the same farewell to his own body so it is because he let down his country he let down his men and he attempted to do something which he thought that Indians will take it lying down


which he thought that Indians will take it lying down how can Indians take it lying down and now after that if somebody wishes to make a low hanging fruit kisiacin is a low hanging fruit or is not possible Pakistan is not a nation that can be trusted because you never know what is going to happen in 1947 used to stay country has not been formed also Pakistan still then Pakistani officers were going to Jannah and wanting to plot what they did subsequently in Jammu and Kashmir Yaya Khan is a G2 to field Marshal maneksha maneksha is G1 as Lieutenant Colonel Yaya Khan is major as G2 and 71 was being played President of Pakistan in 71 Yaya Khan he was Major to foreign the motorcycle of maneksha and told him that I'll pay you later you give me your motorcycle because the same motorcycle field Marshall then as a colonel would pick him up from Princess park next to India Gate is Princess Park so they were all staying there as youngster


Park so they were all staying there as youngster it pick him up and bring him to office and he said while leaving uh going back to park Army he said the Manisha I want a motorcycle he said it cost so much yeah he said 10 year I'll pay you once I go back to Pakistan I said he never paid and believe you me field Marshall partner you never paid me for the bike now you have to pay East Pakistan you lost because you didn't pay me for my motorcycle you know I think I mean how many tables because we were in the uh 10 to 11 standard at that time drunk fully drunk I couldn't imagine Pakistan president what is talking I think he alone knew what he was talking I I still remember sir 71 I must have been a child or something at that time you know I was like in 71 I'd recall at that time in School uh seniorsan dash dash dash you know because at that time Yaya Khan was such a villain he used to claim


Khan was such a villain he used to claim all kinds of things to recollect I don't know whether you're correct we used to have a news item from all India radio which is used to cover all what these pakistanis were saying what they are doing and what is happening over there obviously you know when you're on the back foot you're always wanting to not to tell your nation that you have lost the war yeah again had a very funny thing you know his eyebrows would be like this you know yeah like and you wanted to show himself and he is one of those few pathans along with Ayub Khan Khan was also uh you know you've seen the park Amir eyeball to eyeball like you were talking about yeah you know so many times actually I met them at the place in Rajasthan where from you go to the train can go up to kokropa right across and we have water trains coming and you're delivering us water at manaba now of course the fencing


us water at manaba now of course the fencing has been done those days we used to meet them very often at the border pillar so fencing is on the dunes I have seen that fencing where no but I've also seen that that would you Niche Challenge and the fence is hanging in the air I've seen those now it goes along now it does yeah and it's beautiful in it it's virtually a tourist uh place now people go I met them at uh number of times so as people I remember so you've seen this infantry I don't know whether this happens when when you're there and they are on the other side and this eyeball to eyeball like I in films they show that you know when you lose a cricket match what happens is it true does it happen you know I must share with you two incidents one in 1970 it I was a tandar okay posted and there's a nastachun path which we used to call it sadhna pass in the Army most of


call it sadhna pass in the Army most of these passes are named after film actresses names of these female actresses and some of these Peaks also so if you say Hema Peak universe so it was this is all in Jammu Kashmir uh for our viewers and listeners who live abroad uh in Jammu Kashmir we have a very strong presence and general Kulkarni was there you're talking about the 1970s 19788 and uh a place called tangdar and we were there I was at a place a post called there and right opposite overlooking is a huge thing I could oversee on the kitchen ganga River that's Pakistan occupied Kashmir just search they had a post which was just about 50 yards in front of me which is mind I'm there but generally very heavy snowfall uh it was New Year so I thought uh you know their company Commander would rarely come rarely come and as a youngster I was always there you know because that post was right in front and opposite for the to


post was right in front and opposite for the to the company Commander okay so on top of my banker I had written Happy New Year 78. and so they also they must have set this up Happy New Year Happy New Year I said Happy New Year he said Happy New Year I could make out that is quite senior to me and you know elderly looking pathan dress me and he was standing in front of me so a conversation he said [Music] captain and we had lost the Series to Pakistan and so he was you know trying to poke foreign so these kind of conversations do take place I remember uh one of the chaps that cut wood you know it was a walnut wood piece lying over there a water point and okay hahaha nice because it's a water point where we would also go and get water and they would also go get water so the carpenter probably not able to bring it up lock it up so that Walnut coffees in Turkey because and these mountains is very difficult to have water


and these mountains is very difficult to have water and this water would be from Springs or through all these and so there was Point water point one two three what a point one they could come and collect the water whenever they wanted it water point two is there was a timing once the water time one had dried up water point two we had timings that morning they'll come after that they will not come so they will be given to us water point three no question it was very much you know and I put a big drum say over a whole day the drum would get filled up adequate for my men for water so water point one dried up water point two also dried up now water point three the chaps are wanting to come and take water I told him I said no way you have to handle it where is your company Commander I said I'm the company Commander here I'm not going to let you take water from me you have whatever strength you have I don't know what strength you are


strength you have I don't know what strength you are but you are coming from Top coming down and taking water Jerry can make I won't let you take water from my water point this is my exclusive one I've allowed you you are still coming down I have not said anything to you two I have still allowed you okay bye up three also you won't believe that chap was a baluchi I know it came down it said sabji foreign so this is Pakistan yeah and I've seen it with my own eyes in 1978 this was in 1982. this has been a real interesting conversation sir and uh though I'm not from the kuma regimen may I say ram ram in conclusion and Jai Hind and uh God bless you and thank you so much for the services for keeping us safe uh and all the best in your life thank you very much uh indeed honored and again as I said it's not me for God's sake has no role to play if not for the men if not for the seniors and


not for the men if not for the seniors and if not for the colleagues we are nobody so all of us as a team and we deliver as a team and that is all the morale of the Indian army is sustained and that is how hats off to our men who can deliver anywhere anytime we need not worry at all and all the best thank you thank you thank you for watching or listening into this episode do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste click here to watch the previous episodes foreign [Music]


I don't want to be known as shefali did a good role I'd rather be recognized as the character I haven't worked with anyone touchwood who's been a dictator besides one everyone's gone through it being touched inappropriately I played a mother very very early in my life that kind of finished my chances off okay bus finished I think they didn't know what to do with me because I was a no big deal honestly Smitha in the last two years I've gotten the kind of recognition that I have supermodels are anorexic otherwise it was always thin tall Fair yeah I mean you don't like me fair enough the woman was an accessory chair shelf life of 18 to 20 to 25. after that if you ask what is the character Hiroki every character leaves something with you and every character takes something out of you I keep telling some of my directors give me an item number Namaste Jai Hind welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash today my guest is somebody who's


Smitha prakash today my guest is somebody who's been called an impossibly skilled actor I found the term quite apt because she is essaying every role in such a perfect manner that shefali Shah is something of a complete actor today I'm in Mumbai a city which he calls her home shivalaji thank you so much for coming on please do not call me shafaliji okay I I was going to call you Smita ji no but then I said no not love okay fine shefali thank you for giving me the privilege for calling you that absolutely my pleasure and coming on the podcast um well there are no two opinions today that you're one of the most talented actresses uh in the film industry you've acted in such a gamut of roles that you know to pick and choose as to which one I want to talk to you about I had a great difficulty so um but you know you you've been around for so long in the film industry one doesn't realize it Monsoon so like uh


industry one doesn't realize it Monsoon so like uh it's unfair for me to ask you pick your best or whatever so tell me first about Monsoon wedding so uh I just done Satya and I remember I was out of town and Meera called me and the first thing she said is I don't even know if you speak English okay which was a great compliment because it meant that Satya I could manage to be the character that was there so uh and she just gave me a brief on the phone and I said yes I mean it was really as simple as that it was so difficult to roll it was difficult to roll and honestly when I look back today I felt I didn't do enough Justice to it but I think the film is a cult you know and also what happened with that film is that a lot of people started talking about yeah these conversations which people did not have before correct uh you know that XYZ has been through it and honestly if you look back I remember


through it and honestly if you look back I remember a lot of my friends and we were having a conversation and almost everyone's had a unfortunate experience yes you know whatever the magnitude but that was a very important part and yet it was fun and it's it's a classic I mean like you can watch it at any point of time yeah I mean my sons I remember showing it to them and they loved it it's not a guy's film Like a Boy movie I don't think I think it was it was everyone and the film is like I said it's a cult film yeah it's it's a superlative film yeah at that time I interviewed Meera Nair and uh simply because I wanted to you know it's not as if it landed on my uh lap uh I sought out and I wanted to do this interview because I was like my goodness um stuff that we have kept quiet about nobody you know it's like you know there's a wrong touch you know that weddings are open season for


wrong touch you know that weddings are open season for those dirty old uncles to do things and nobody will say anything because you know and you etched that role how did you emote it like where does it come from are you total directors actor or did you did you bring it from some latent feeling inside you no I think it comes from a latent feeling of course you have to keep in mind that nobody sees the film as the Director does I don't have the capacity to see the entire film like in its entirety um like I said earlier everyone's gone through it you know even if like I remember walking in a market in a crowded market and being touched inappropriately and feeling crap about it and never ever saying anything never saying anything because I wouldn't say it's guilt but it's just you know it's shameful and wondering whether you did anything to invite it but not in a Marketplace you know what I mean yeah but yes I agree with you a lot of people feel


yes I agree with you a lot of people feel did I do anything you feel guilty you feel shameful and you feel you don't pull down like shove it under the carpet kind of a thing so uh I thought it was a very important and honestly I don't even think I gave it so much thought okay you know it's an important conversation to start it was just something that struck straight inside me and the entire film I mean like like you said you know in weddings is when all the skeletons drop out of the closet yeah whether it's about um you know about child abuse or any like there are various things and it's a chaos and Madness and yet it's coming together of relationships which finally stand the test of time and uh the fraying of relationships I mean if it's wedding I I have to get on to the wedding anniversary right and that was another part like I saw you as a young person in that film in Monsoon wedding where you touched me as a


in Monsoon wedding where you touched me as a youngster and then I see you in that way you're that Auntie that socialite Auntie which we have all seen who who has it's like ah you know living up to the Joneses and don't discuss the uncomfortable true where did you have you met those kind uh honestly I haven't really uh because I'm uh I wouldn't say picky but I just don't go to places I'm I have nothing to contribute or you know I have my close bunch of people etc etc so I you've met people like that but not on a deeper to understand yeah that angst that I think it was um I have to give it to Meera to Zoya I mean to all the directors I've worked with you know when you have such a solid blueprint to work on it becomes easier but all these directors have been very lucky uh where they I have cast me because they know I am going to get something to the table so they've never


going to get something to the table so they've never told me you know what I mean you emote this raw sentiment you know this uh Beezer sentiment but there you told to uh and the only time I saw it I mean one sees it not I everyone sees it as in when you have that catharsis when that eating yeah that cake eating episode oh my God it was like it rung your heart at that stage and it was you know when I read the script uh I thought I remember after the film got over and we had a screening and I remember Javed Saab and uh Rima and Zoya telling me that you know it was the weakest roll on paper and I was like really because I thought it was the strongest role on paper after Pluto okay but she didn't want me to play the dog I wasn't good looking enough I guess but he's there all the way he's a rock star of the film and um but when I read that scene I said you know


but when I read that scene I said you know there's so much here and the beauty of it or the irony of it is that there is this whole facade she puts on throughout she's fake yeah she's completely fake she's manipulative she is hiding everything she's almost misogynistic she has this sense of what your daughter should do or what is the right thing to do as a woman which is take care of your house and be married and have kids and at the same time she's really broken yeah so that's why you don't dislike her yeah you just feel like and like you said there was so many women who've come up to me and said you know it seemed like our story yeah and um you saw that those women which you used to think ah you know she's fake yeah most of us would dismiss a person for being fake but not realize that there's a reason that they are the way they are true you know and then you do that and then you confuse Everybody by taking a


do that and then you confuse Everybody by taking a very strong stand on philandering and on violence and when comes Darlings in that you are this militant mom telling her daughter to walk out on a husband whereas in uh in the other movie you were telling your daughter not to walk out on the husband true so here you are the feminist mom and actually I mean like I don't know how your kids saw it your son started like huh killing her how does that work I think they thought it was very black comedy and she's wicked she's weak I love her her she's so wicked she has a sense of humor she's wicked she's an independent woman she has a past which could have broken her but she's come out of it and said okay I'm gonna live for my daughter but at the same time she doesn't stop living for herself yeah you know she still wants to make this uh cookery thing that I want to cook and etc etc and she is a very


to cook and etc etc and she is a very bright full of life character you know and honestly she's very close to who I am as a person really yeah so who are you as a person um I'd like to believe I am oh a lot of things uh but Wicked yes I like to believe I'm funny um I'd do anything to protect people I love my children I mean I would kill for them um I I really think Injustice you need to stop it before you expect anyone around you to stop it yeah um very move it uh and I have no facade yeah so that comes across clear when you act it's it's as if um you're not acting you've imbibed that rule that Honesty comes across very clearly so uh even if you're doing a wicked role uh it it just it seems like you have become Wicked at that stage so what do you do do you is there a lot of method acting that goes in this so there is a I hate using that


in this so there is a I hate using that term there is a lot of uh I don't believe in method acting I don't okay because I feel like [Music] I mean you can't do that but there is a lot of thought conversations with the director with the actors about mainly the director and you know what is she where does she come from because what you're seeing is let's say three months of their life or that like a slice of life but what has built up to it to who she's become is what matters so even if you don't even if there is not a scene saying it you can sense it uh through the film and I feel um I don't want to be known as shefali did a good role I'd rather be recognized as the character okay I don't want shefali to be seen there so I feel and I'm I get obsessive with my script and the stories and and then it's just becoming her so what do you take you take the script and you you


do you take you take the script and you you start living that person first I make 100 notes like it's a it's like oh God she asks so many questions on the on your script yeah so I make notes I make a lot of notes I have a lot of questions okay and then you just start I don't know it's a subconscious thing I guess it's not like there is a pattern to what I do because whatever I ask whatever I discuss whatever I write it may never come out it may not be tangible but it it shows in how this woman feels you know like a scene I believe is the is the last thing that comes into picture uh you know yes you do the scene right but what has led up to that scene even if you don't see it you can sense it yeah and you know um some of the films that you do uh like even the the shows uh the Ott shows like Delhi cram I'll be honest with you I didn't see the first season because I've I've


I didn't see the first season because I've I've seen the whole episode I mean I've seen the actual thing that happened and we journalists who reported those uh things it was it was gut wrenching we didn't sleep for months we saw how it affected everybody it was too much so when when it actually came in I don't want to go through this catharsis again again it is it's too raw and then when the second season and then if of course everybody was like what how can you not see this so then it became okay fine and unwrap that thing let's go through it all over again and it's a gamut of emotions how did you go through this one and two like after one did you like I don't want to do do this again no on the contrary I love stepping back into varthika's shoes yeah it's my favorite character when I met Rishi Mehta for one it was actually a five minute briefing within five minutes I said yes and uh you know you all may


I said yes and uh you know you all may be knowing that side of the story uh being journals but I didn't yeah like everyone else we were torn with what happened yeah and the one question which was constant was why is no one doing anything about this hmm when I read the script when Rishi narrated what the one line was I was like oh my god there was somebody doing something about this and it was a woman yeah and she cracked it you know so there was Injustice and then there was this woman who got Justice you met keep meeting chair I met chayamam once um over a coffee for like two three two three hours I spoke to her about it um and uh not just about the case but about her relationship with other people what are her thought processes etc etc and uh then uh every time I had a question I would text her you know that is this right also there is a protocol right when you are in in uniform when you're in a field like this but a


uniform when you're in a field like this but a simple thing is when you take your cap off you know stuff like that so whenever there were questions okay I always reached out so that authenticity you wanted in your authenticity and also uh of course the blueprint of DC was Rock Solid and uh I remember Rishi telling me he said I don't want an actor I want a collaborator on this hmm whatever I could create is on paper but now I want you to make her your own person so yes it's not like I could imbibe Chaya ma'am I'm not good at it and you can't you can't encapsulate a person or pick it up no it's your character you have to make her her own person but her values uh I think their Universal values yeah you know the pain that we all felt the need for justice to cry for justice so did the director give you that scope to you to mold that the way you wanted it or was it a collaborative effort it's always a


was it a collaborative effort it's always a collaborative effort and not just between the director and the actor I genuinely believe filmmaking is a collaborative effort between everyone like for example we are sitting and having a conversation but if this Dada uh you know the light flickers or the sound goes off it's not going to work yeah so it is a collaborative I mean anyone who believes the creative process is wow great good for you okay so let's go to Satya I'm as I told you I'm going to go one by one sure on my favorites so how did Satya come your way and that was like a cult uh you know and it's always been a cult whoever got with that film uh says that that was life-changing experience for them was is it for you to so um I remember uh Manoj and me were very close friends then and he was doing the film and he said you know uh ramusa would like to talk to you about this and I remember anurag


talk to you about this and I remember anurag coming to me and he narrated what it was and I thought wow this is this would be really exciting and I was too young to understand the magnitude of it you know it was the first time I'd worked with an international dop the sound system the way the where you're just given a one line and said okay where do you want to go with this or the scene really this is the Crux of the scene but um knowing Marathi was a big Advantage etc etc so it it was a very enjoyable it was you know it was like almost like theater like where you all come together and you're contributing and you're working on things and there is no hierarchy or um dictatorship thank God I haven't worked with anyone touchwood who's been a dictator besides one but that's um but yeah I I wish today when I look back I feel wow I could have enjoyed it so much more but then on the other hand maybe I


much more but then on the other hand maybe I wouldn't have enjoyed it more if I would have understood wow we're doing something really serious and life-altering but uh you said I've been lucky I have not worked with some people you've been very picky in who you want to work with and what you want to do otherwise you would have done 100 or 200 more films because you've been around since quite some time but you were picky you didn't just say but why why did you do that like was it because you wanted to have a certain path or it was like no this I can't uh I've never planned my career never I do what I I love what I do okay so if something hits me right here I will do it if it doesn't I won't do it doesn't matter Banner no because I won't be happy on the set and it won't be fair to me and it won't be fair to the makers so what's the purpose of it but it films came to you where you


of it but it films came to you where you were playing mom to people who were older than you how did that touch you for everything you know that was uh which was a film uh based on a play and I'd seen the play and I loved the story and I loved her character and uh there was this um what do you say this temptation of working with two of my favorite men in the industry uh Mr bachan and vipul so I said I want to do this in fact vipul was the one who said do not do it yeah if for viewers living abroad vipul is my husband is shefali's husband and he's a noted film director so he said do not do it and then amitji uh suggested my name he said why don't you wash shefali and I was like see I'm telling you I want to do it and seriously you were to have somebody else to reduce it and uh that's how it happened okay yeah and of course you've spoken about it recently


yeah and of course you've spoken about it recently also and I think twice I've seen that where you said that uh Amitabh Bachchan jokingly calls you Malkin ever since because you know you're married to the film producer uh no he thinks I he calls me Malkin because he thinks I'm bigger than the producer I'm the director on that set yeah he has a sense of humor which is very dry oh my God yeah he's amazing I love amiji okay so when you when you act with him I believe he's he's a stickler right he comes on time and he's uh he's there for those X number of hours and things work differently in a film set when Mr Button is around they work the way they're supposed to work okay I mean think of someone coming on time well that's unexpected yeah it's becoming delayed I mean I know it's it works the other way which is the norm which is not the right thing which is not I mean so amiji does everything that


which is not I mean so amiji does everything that is required or he contributes to a film completely and not just coming on time I mean that's a basic but uh you know he treats you at Power he of course I was I mean I was completely like oh my God uh but he puts you at ease and when he's talking to you or when he's you know he is it's like your the only person he's talking to it's not a frivolous thing and of course he has a sense of humor and what an actor so it was like um anybody who's acted with him or with you know Hollywood grades like when I asked what was it like with Anthony Hopkins or Tom Cruise or something and they all say that they're phenomenal actors but they put the other person at ease and I guess that's why the magic comes out of that moment absolutely when you're acting you can see that the other person is not in awe and the other person doesn't look at you as


awe and the other person doesn't look at you as Amitabh Bachchan absolutely looking at you as the character and they've become and that's where the chemistry comes in from also yeah so you didn't get scared look everybody knows being Typecast as a mom right saransh it was a movie which you know typified what father's grieving loss all that got all the dad rules so and then everybody thinks mom roll Matlab nirupa Roy and no offends to niropa Roy but that crushed cotton saree and yeah big VP eyes yeah so and you have lovely eyes so did you did you get at some point yeah I got a lot of offers of the same time and uh I just said I don't want to do it huh well remember actually huh I don't remember so when you say no it's no I'm not doing it yeah and I don't think they get offended at least earlier they wouldn't because I was a no big deal so they would feel like what do you mean no


so they would feel like what do you mean no big deal because it's uh you know honestly Smitha in the last two years I've gotten the kind of recognition that I have uh in all this while people said one of the finest actors but it didn't translate into work why did that happen what do you think I mean you must have thought about it that why were their periods where six months to a year you didn't get a film when the earlier film was such a fabulous hit where everybody appreciates exactly because I played age at a very young age and once you do that that's that's what you carry for the rest of your life because even worked yeah so then and also until now um you know in the 70s 80s 70s in fact there were films which were women oriented and women at any age but then there was this whole patch where the woman was just the accessory to the film and uh it's changing now again where there are stories that are being told and the lead is


are stories that are being told and the lead is not just 18 to 25. you know she's coming of age she is uh blossoming at any point of time so I think they didn't know what to do with me and it was very simple you know I remember reading an interview of rohiniha tangari long long ago and she said that she did the role of kasturba early in her life when she wasn't that old but that role began from young to old but still she was kasturba so every film producer she would approach and say I mean I've acted with Ben Kingsley For Heaven's Sake Richard Attenborough and you think I'm not good enough they're saying we can't have kasturba Romancing an actor so where Marathi films would take her Hindi film industry was just no cannot true but that the audience will not accept you as which I I think is unfair to undermine the intelligence or sensitivity of the audience but uh I think it was just that it didn't


but uh I think it was just that it didn't fit into the box that was created according to the box office yeah also when a roll of film is so big it is difficult to break that it is I'm not questioning that uh you know I mean Gandhi is like it's wow yeah but to break the image of kasturba is one thing and to break the image of old is one thing over here I guess it was a combination of both so did you regret then at that time when you didn't get the films that you wanted or you saw somebody else getting and saying I could have etched this it this could have come my way no yeah I didn't because like I said I never planned my career I didn't even know I wanted to be an actor I had no clue let's go back now in time so childhood everything is Mumbai right everything is Mumbai born and bought up in Bombay okay and so this Bombay girl not having Bombay dreams how come uh I was uh


having Bombay dreams how come uh I was uh ridiculously protected okay um my mom is a dog my dad was with RPI I had a very very protected uh childhood uh I didn't even have friends I mean to think of it uh and you know at that point and I was completely in sync with whatever my parents said I didn't really have a mind of my own it's unbelievable yeah you've turned out because I kind of I think I snapped once I went to college then I did all the stupid stuff and um I went to mitibai you stayed in Mumbai yeah all total Bombay girl yeah okay uh and then I actually just blossom uh no I did a lot of stupid stuff which you do when you're 16 17 18 when you suddenly have the freedom yeah and uh but over time I kind of you know I I wasn't becoming blase but I was just really becoming comfortable in what I thought so you get into Stage right yes and that has remained a first love


Stage right yes and that has remained a first love I wouldn't say so no I know a lot of people say that and I love becoming characters so whether it's for stage or it's Ott or its films yeah but you keep going back to Stage it's not as if you want to give up on medium for the other you'll do everything together oh well I I did I started uh with theater and then there was a long because then I started doing television etc etc and then there was a long Gap and I did theater again like a couple of years ago I think it must be at least seven eight years ago I did a play which people produced and Chandra Khan Kulkarni had directed it and recently in fact people asked me that would you want to do a play and I you know it requires a lot of time commitment it does you really as compared to films uh yes because one is the rehearsals yes they may think and people might be getting through with uh 20


think and people might be getting through with uh 20 days of rehearsals and five days of grand rehearsal I don't think I can do that okay I'll I'll need time and then once you've made that commitment like you know Gujarati theater we would do 35 shows a month that's a lot that's I mean you're just performing every day yeah uh of course when we did basitna sahab that people produced we were just doing Sunday to Sunday but I want to keep my option open that tomorrow if something comes up I can give that time yeah you know so I don't want to be unfair where I've committed to something and then I back out of it okay so you're comfortable in all these languages Gujarati Marathi Hindi English all of them and that's because uh Mumbai uh no so we have National integration in our family okay so my grandmother maternal grandmother was a maharashtrian she married a Gujarati so my grandfather was a Gujarati and Mom is a


grandfather was a Gujarati and Mom is a Gujarati and my dad she married a Shetty [Music] not even a bit like just uh courtesy kind of content as much as my Tulu I can also speak just a bit just because of grandparents are you from Mangalore yes I am oh yes hello so that's how you know a little little yeah of just that much I can I think comprehend it and uh then so bad is a Shetty so I am and I can't speak the language but I can understand it completely huh so they can't about me and the children speak English I know that always happens right I don't know I think maybe it's the earlier Generations where we all spoke our grandparents language or at least understood to have a communication still with grandparents that was very important parents drilled it into you yeah that that was necessary slowly it changed where parents learned grandparents learned the language of the grandkids true and because English and Hindi so you know there's


and because English and Hindi so you know there's no need to learn the third and fourth language but see how you know versatile you are because of this mixed parentage and grandparent age and I wish I could have learned more languages like I'm dying to do a South film or I'm dying to do a Bengali film it's amazing I need to learn the language in South India the what is coming out absolutely from there they are so creative and uh suddenly I'm noticing North Indians who used to laugh at South films now waking up to the fact that some really creative stuff is happening absolutely in in and you know you were talking about taking audiences for granted uh and how everybody's had to recalibrate and not take audiences for granted anymore and I think Ott films have done a lot about that absolutely right I agree with it yes uh it has started changing any which ways you know with the parched or a tumhari Sulu or a lipstick under my book


tumhari Sulu or a lipstick under my book um all of this but otd kind of I mean I think some of the top shows are led by women and women of any age which is great so Nina Gupta in one of the interviews said that she had to actually go about asking people imagine like she also you know dates back quite some time as far as creative work is concerned about phenomenal films that she has done but it didn't come her way and this is why I'm saying that film actors filmmakers said oh she's she's good but in that way and she a person like her had to sit without getting work and now with badayo and the other films that are coming she's hot property and people are going to her asking her to act in those films with new stories new ways of telling stories it's wonderful what what one is seeing absolutely it's amazing yeah it's amazing see earlier what also used to happen like I said was that the woman was an accessory


like I said was that the woman was an accessory she had a shelf life of 18 to 20 to 25. after that you know when when you got offered something uh if you asked what is the character Hiroki no I get it that's a relationship what is a character but today all these characters have become the leads they're the center of shows films you know so are you picky that way that um that you want a central role for all the woman characters that you do uh I am very picky period okay uh but I believe I love ensembles um whether you talk about a Satya or a monsoon wedding or a Delhi crime it's not just about this woman or about one person yeah they all contribute you know so uh I mean if there are four characters for example in Darlings yeah you know who are the center characters Central characters when you talk about a jalsa the film and uh yes it is a story of Maya and Roxanna but it's the story of the kids it's the story


it's the story of the kids it's the story of the husbands the families etc etc so it becomes an ensemble cast talk to me about jalsa that's another film with two phenomenal actors come together and there's no at no point do you feel that one is trying to overshadow the other and they are so strong uh and so raw and so gut-wrenching that uh experience is in that film too so um one is Suresh triveni okay so when and I know this because one he's a very dear friend and two because I've heard his interviews uh is that he thinks of his actors and then says okay if I have X and Y now let me write something for them he made me comfortable and said I want you as rukhsana I want no one but you as ruksana and then there is somebody as benevolent and loving as Vidya and we both have a mutual admiration Club because uh why she's very giving really okay and it comes easily to her she's


really okay and it comes easily to her she's very accepting she's very embracing she treats she's not a selfish person it's not just about her and she's very vocal about it you know like when we used to do interviews I was amazed I mean because she's so open about her admiration for me her love for me and I mean I wish everyone was like that yeah and that's not a pretense trust me she is like that I guess um expressing emotions is something that actors do so much on screen that off screen they probably don't uh want to or they are they're dried out is that possible I don't think that's a valid logic if that's why they're holding back because I can't imagine acting in real life I just have to be who I am yeah you know so what yes a film took everything out of me but it's over it's finished do you get out of the character like with a jiffy when the film is packed and it's over every character leaves something


is packed and it's over every character leaves something with you and every character takes something out of you it's yeah so you can never really leave it behind it may not be tangible it may come back a couple of years later give me an example like I'm sure DC would have done that oh God DC I mean every time I like when we were doing two and you know DC one had become like whoa and uh that is a character that got me the maximum amount of appreciation and it put me into the spotlight to say so yeah and I was like how am I going to fill those shoes there is no way I will I mean it happened I don't know how I'm gonna do it and you trust me when I went back on set it was just like she's back that was just vartika there was nothing else there you know so and I'm sure somewhere I I may not be able to link oh this I'm thinking like this today a shefali because it's come from


like this today a shefali because it's come from vatika I may never be able to and vice versa you know when I'm doing a character I feel oh this is exactly how I would feel but sometimes it may not be exactly how you feel you have to feel like the character like you're this um you're this cop who who's going to make a change and who's going to do something about it and then you see something wrong happening do you feel at that stage I know it's there's a dissonance that's a character you've played in real life you may think that oh this is not my job to do this unfortunately you feel at least I feel I wish I could do something about it I don't have the power I I don't know how to correct it and so it's not it's not that I don't care because it's not my job it's almost like I care but it's not my job you direct it uh the frustration of seeing something wrong and not being able to do anything


seeing something wrong and not being able to do anything would that be directed when you do a job where you are shown to do it that that energy that you bring absolutely I felt um I had a sense of power because I could correct it somewhere and it only had to do with bharthika yeah you know but shefali doesn't have that power nothing's changed after DC yeah you know um these films come your way because everybody knows that um you you emote so much with so little not so little I don't mean it as a talent so little I know but the words that you use it's not you that you have these flowery dialogues you say little but you emote so much are you given like when they say okay shefali is playing this role let's reduce the content as well on the contrary I'm one of those few actors who goes on settings please because I'm terrible at lines and um I remember when we did juice and neeraj and me were having a conversation and he said


and me were having a conversation and he said uh do you think she should say anything in the end and I said no just that her sitting down is a statement big enough I believe we have the privilege of a camera which catches the smallest of nuances uh don't use four words if you can say it into and if you can say it without any words don't use what you should be in journalism really why do you say that because that's what we editors are always telling are you know the Young Writers because in journalism schools it's you know flowery writing because creative writing so there's like you know so early in my career like this I shouldn't be talking you should be telling me but tell me I'm interested in knowing yeah so you know I the training was like that the Prime Minister shook hands with the visiting dignity When Vladimir put it that Mr Putin has come down and your shaking hands then why do you need to say true right give some other information to


need to say true right give some other information to pad up to what so it's a visual medium your words are secondary to it agreed so don't describe what is already on being seen yeah true so uh so when I was when we were when I was like assisting the BBC reporter who I was just assisting at that time so when I was doing that and they were cutting out cutting out and I think you know and then I realized why he was cutting out and then you know when they voice it also you know that that because you know see how our training is like the Prime Minister today because you know that's how we heard it right all India radio used to that yeah yeah then that natural way of talking and then I used to think it wasn't like that true it was more conversational more and that is what is happening with Ott you know it's not like we interview uh uh forges who come and say breakfast you know but now with Ott it's so realistic


you know but now with Ott it's so realistic absolutely you know when you come and you your hair is in a knot yeah where do you remember that film um where Rani Mukherjee is vacuuming with where she acted with Abhishek Bachchan no offense to the filmmakers or to Rani or whatever but that's how films used to be where you're vacuuming with that full makeup on and with your hair gorgeous and you're wearing a tube top and vacuuming and then come you Vidya and all that you know with tumhari Salu or whatever and you where you know Judah essay on top with one Dundee in your hair and zero makeup or at least a very natural look so that's why you guys have become Cults now where are you saying ha she's like us but it also has to do with the changing face of Cinema see I'm sure like for example exactly you know I don't remember the film that uh you're talking about of Rani and then if


uh you're talking about of Rani and then if you remember Yuva huh you know that song between Rani and Abhishek yeah and it's so natural yeah so it it also has to do with the vision of the makeup yeah you know it's not like she chose to whatever but that that movie was by Karan johar and his movies have always Blockbusters but they're all beautiful which is great yeah they're an Escapist World which is great visually it is it's a treat yeah it's a treat I'm like I mean you know when I was young our travel used to be Mangalore or mahabaleshwar so when you're watching Chandni and all that you're like oh my God this is how Switzerland looks I mean it's a it's a dream world yeah and in a way yes that's what Cinema is yeah and everybody wanted to escape to that absolutely but now today it's like you said about journalism you know one is there is this world created but today we are also talking about


this world created but today we are also talking about the realistic version of it yeah so when you decide to do these realistic Cinemas you don't want to do the escapism cinema I keep telling some of my directors give me an item number oh I cannot imagine you doing that but that'll be a blockbuster because how can she do this yeah no but um look it's not about what kind of Cinema it's about the sensibility of your director it's about the script for example uh you know we did this Anthology where there were four stories it was on Netflix and uh I did one of the stories uh which was produced by Karan which was directed by Kaio it was called ankahi and yeah he wanted me to look like a quintessential heroine I've never dressed up in like you know like he wanted me to look like that but the story was so real and so raw and the emotions between these two people they were real so there could be a person who dresses up well