countries Baltic countries there's it's very clear they are in favor of favor of sanctions and all of that then when you go south Italy Greece which have historic reasons it gets a little bit more nuanced but pop but in the public opinion by the way Portugal and and Spain are very there's a very also among public there's a very strong support for them sanctions and EU access it's more um there's more different layers in a public opinion but in in the head of state level the unity at least at the moment is is very clear and we can ask why maybe because the moral case for Ukraine is so so strong also what rasa has been doing in the front you know terrible things I don't start to make a list here it created the situations whatever that for the leaders to say something you know let's try to find a way let's try to discuss it's it's a very very clear and as you know just recently this today Italian Prime Minister was here from these countries what these


Italian Prime Minister was here from these countries what these countries where there's about very many opinions about Russia and her message was very very clear on that and presenting like if you would go to North or politics to Estonia you couldn't have different line so Europe is very United on that honestly okay so bolina I'm going to come to you now that I'm done with the talking to the men yes and now I don't need to talk to them after this no it's just between the two of us no not if we need them to listen to us right okay so um you know you recently tweeted uh that the U.S is quite aware that though China may say otherwise but the state department believes that Beijing has clearly taken a side in the Ukrainian conflict now what is the view in Europe um are they conflicted or is there a consensus that China is uh no longer or China and Russia have colluded well this is a very interesting question and here once again we see depending on where


question and here once again we see depending on where exactly in Europe you're going to look for answers uh some kind of let's say diversification of opinions which is very normal for let's say Democratic societies uh you know pluralistic societies people try to figure out things together uh governments in our case also European institutions because they have a very significant role to play when it comes specifically to the relationship with the big Powers with the United States with China and so on European institutions also have a saying and then of course citizens and here the question on China right uh is uh going to be an ambigious one in my personal view why because first obviously uh the European Union as a collective actor wants to play a significant role in a world that is based on certain rules schools mostly of course in the field of trade in the field of economic ties in all the relevant areas and for that matter the European Union and specifically the big European powers were convinced probably this is going to shift a


were convinced probably this is going to shift a little bit now depending on exactly that kind of case that you uh shortly quoted um they were convinced that they need China for that that they need of course let's say solid and stable business relations with China and the previous German government under Merkel even managed to you know facilitate the relationship to the point uh together of course with the institutions with Brussels but also with the French counterpart to even propose a comprehensive partnership on investment now let me uh also highlight that for instance right now the so-called ft ta relate you know FTA with India that is being renegotiated is higher in the hierarchy of treaties of the European commission than a partnership on investment and yet this partnership on investment would have set a framework for all member states for all 27 members to practically you know have a trade relationship with China in a settled manner of course the the partnership did not send any chance and was put on hold a month later when the European


was put on hold a month later when the European Parliament which is the institution that practically well reflects the the choice of the citizens of the European citizens so you have you know a parliament of 702 uh you know Representatives they put it on hold you know based on human rights violations and labor rights violations so on and so forth and this created you know coupled of course with the mood from the panda endemic where many European States noted that you know China was using certain tools to create a positive image and so on and so forth created a new kind of let's say mood within Europe and specifically then what happened to us you know in uh the Baltic states with Lithuania which also kind of shifted uh towards uh you know on the one hand improving the relationship with Taiwan by launching an official representation also an official diplomatic represent representation of Taiwan it immediately deteriorated to the relationship with China China obviously also was putting representatives from the Parliament and from


also was putting representatives from the Parliament and from think tanks on sanctions list following this you know situation with the failed trick so we suddenly had a new situation and that was Prior you know to the war and then of course with the War I mean I'm probably one of the let's say few European analysts and I'm certainly I've been certainly in the minority who has been pointing to modus vivendi of coordination between China and Russia in various domains not specifically the defense one the so-called Dragon Bear for the last 10 years following the first Invasion this has never been an issue for discussion in Europe in the European capitals maybe in certain closed circles you know of Defense as security pundits but certainly was not an issue at all and then with the war When The War Began and we actually went European officials so what I was anticipating that practically China will be disseminating the same Russian narratives think of you know the narrative it was a NATO expansion


know the narrative it was a NATO expansion uh then the sanctions policy you know we saw all of this important narratives being actually the inseminated this was a kind of I would say an eye-opener for the European capitals for the European memberships but also for the European Institutions and now we are in a kind of a limbo because contrary to United States which is I would argue already in an award competition and is taking measures in all of these you know relevant areas um and Fields the European Union is in a in a much more difficult situation it's still hesitating to say it forget about taking action right it is we are still struggling let's say and I um am convinced that it actually we should actually be more open with the specific towards the risks that may emerge if we are not addressing the issue because uh that kind of um solidarity that my colleagues were you know correctly pointing to may be endangered in the case of china because I think that a certain


the case of china because I think that a certain group of European member states would probably go along with the United States not so much based on only on personal convention convention uh you know when it comes to the approach to China but also because they see that the United States is the only guarant of their security and their territorial Integrity in the future following the the the the you know the Russian war against Ukraine and in doing so there will be another block of course which is more constructive which will try to navigate which doesn't want to get caught in a binary world you know it wants to still somehow keep the equilibrium that is right now in global Affairs and this may create a kind of bifurcation within Europe which I'm really really uh practically afraid of and I think that by addressing the issues by speaking about it and it will be a necessity at some point of time um and the moment for me the red line would be certainly if China decides to deliver military


be certainly if China decides to deliver military assessments because if China decides to deliver military assistance to Russia that's right we will end with a proxy war a proxy war between Russia and Ukraine where two new system Rivals are practically helping the both sides and where Russia will lose its Global power status okay that will be my that will be my call so okay uh Mr Venus uh I think uh very eloquently put out here that there you know the veil has been lifted about uh and there's no ambiguity now about uh China eluding uh colluding with uh Russia um can there be any ambiguity now in all of the EU States uh and you know because there was ambiguity when it came to the india-china conflict when it happened in galwan on our borders EU was kind of was tiptoeing around the issue was did not come out openly and castigate China or say that this was expansionist policy of China Now is it going to be tiptoeing is or


Now is it going to be tiptoeing is or coming straight out and or does that have to be an attack or does it have to be military transfers what needs to be done now for EU to decide okay we're going to take action or we're going to say something well I mean there is that is a complex issue I mean first I agree in generally with what was said but China I mean we international relations are Dynamic and fluid if we go back uh two years the the transatlantic relation between the European Union and the US was not so good as it is now uh if we go back uh some more years the relations between the European Union and India were not as in such a good phase as they are now actually it was during the Portuguese presidency of the European Union that we were able to break through and uh and relaunch an economic agenda with uh between the European Union and India in 2021 so this is to say that International ages are fluid and uh and and the Dynamics with with China


fluid and uh and and the Dynamics with with China go between ups and downs now we are not in a hub but I will not qualify it as uh something final okay although uh uh the the the Ukrainian War can be a qualitative element in this equation I mean if if uh if if some steps are taken by China that can represent a an issue for the European uh member states uh that's for sure right but I will not anticipate uh uh let me just if I'm in 30 seconds I mean he ended picking in what Tommy was saying before and and in your two first questions I mean about European Union the European Union is very it's it's a very strange animal at least for the outside world I mean even for us in working members of the European Union or working it's it's it's difficult it's complex the decision-making process the division of labor between institutions the competences between States and and Brussels it's it's difficult it's a unique project it's it's it's very beautiful but


a unique project it's it's it's very beautiful but unfinished uh ever Infinity it's like the the cathedral in Barcelona and the guido of course it never is it's never finished but uh but the fact is that crisis after crisis and the 21st century has been a a Century Of Crisis for the European Union the financial crisis that Tommy mentioned even we have to invent another word because crises are by definition transitional and we are living in crisis then the the the migration crisis then the brexit after six enlargements it was the first time that a member state of the European Union decided to leave the union and then the pandemic and now a war and in in each and every of this crisis the European Union had came out uh stronger and United and with more elements of integration uh for instance the answer to the pandemic was uh extraordinary I mean we developed competencies in else Public Health that we didn't have before uh buying vaccines and coordinating the answers with you know


vaccines and coordinating the answers with you know across Europe or or going to the market and the boring mining the so-called Euro bonds uh in on behalf of the the 27th so this these were step major steps yes in the middle of a huge crisis and again now in Ukraine as we as we are as we were mentioning two issues I think of Divergence doing things that we have never that we have never done before for instance to supply military equipment to the Ukraine yes because it's hard uh you know um Tommy I'm going to come to you um the Indian external affairs minister last year and I quote he said uh somewhere Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems but the world's problems are not Europe's problems and the German Chancellor repeated the statement at the Munich security conference um he said that the Indian foreign minister had a point uh this is the way Asia sees Europe let me tell you it's not just India um South


let me tell you it's not just India um South Asia sees Europe like that uh do you agree disagree uh yeah it was very very you know uh clear statement and very vital yeah exactly it's very vital also it came very interesting moment because that was exactly the moment when the whole you know the in the context of whole U.N votings and you know how India would you know they was focus on India and then came that that um that uh that statement it's you know to keep it open it up so of course it's a question is okay what do you mean exactly of course you know I know that we know that it was mentioned in the context of Ukraine war but if you say that Europe doesn't care about world's problems you know there's still the you know Europe is is giving 75 billion euros which is about 9 000 billion rupees every year to the in the world development and in the old Corners is presented in all the uh all the all the countries and tries to be


uh all the all the countries and tries to be involved so in that sense that since uh that soft element is is there but if you then say that that was meant it in in a way that in a context that you know okay we had to probably we had this problem in China in Malaya there are you know Indian Ocean you know all these questions and and and you never said nothing and now we you know you have that thing and you come to us to ask sympathy and and okay well there one point the Europeans because of our history are quite Pat on managing military conflict you know Yugoslavia War it's basically I can say as a think tanker it was United States who came to clean the mess Ukraine also the situation would not be so good if the United States would not be there uh with uh with the military assistance and uh and you know kind of the leadership because we don't uh you know the the kind of mindset is not there and and not not the you


mindset is not there and and not not the you know capacity but I think the the good news and there maybe I can be a little bit more sharper it's that I think that's uh the point you know maybe what was referred in the minute conference is that that it is true that in Europe in general you know Asia has been very very far away you know to the point we have been so must must uh mixed up with our own internal issues that even our neighborhood even in North Africa which is very close to us we are not really following very well what is happening let alone Asia but now that I think it has changed for the normal people and business CEOs for the reason that now we understand in Europe that what happens in Asia as an impact in Europe next day so if if China because now because of this at the Russia's aggress into crane also the question well will China make them same move with me with Taiwan so if it does you know Europeans understand okay if you have


does you know Europeans understand okay if you have invested massive to to China and then the whole factories and Company so if the attack comes most likely we go have to go to some kind of sanctions as a reciprocity and then we are in in a trouble and then the focus is on India exactly maybe also where the Indian stands but not only the new possibilities and maybe that's the Silver Lining and maybe maybe for example that can be one of part of our agenda publicly or not publicly is that how to tackle with the China how to do it because we have a common interest common uh you know concerns and and the last uh I I personally think that we have we are I think Europe okay we have many countries with 29 or 27 and we have different views but in these issues I think we have started to pick a side if you want to be as all in Europe if we say we want to be a global power but then you have to surely these leaders it means choices


then you have to surely these leaders it means choices you have to make choice you have to pick your choice I would just I would pick the choice of India okay concluding remarks William we were talking about China how much does Europe really want to get involved because as uh Tommy was pointing out that it wasn't part of you know a sphere that Europe was interested in or showed any kind of inclination to be interested in but now you know everybody is interconnected so now when we talk about EU geographical borders cultural borders where does it stop and if like you said if the China Taiwan conflict or in the South China see if it gets aggressive then um does Europe get involved will Europe get involved will it will it become a bigger issue than it is now are you trying to diplomatically ask me whether Europe would get military involved involved the health of the United States if China decides to launch a military attack because it's a question and uh which is being discussed even in


a question and uh which is being discussed even in Australia right so uh I would like to know what it is about Europe like why the hesitation well you see this is exactly the point which I was trying to make that this kind of big risk I see emerging on the horizon I'm not saying it has to happen like that and I absolutely agree that international relations are fluid things are happening all the time we have plenty of Game Changers and yet there are some kind of objective Trends and one of the things is that it is about credibility and in that sense uh first I have to say that I am personally I'm not convinced that China is having the intention of launching a military attack on Taiwan in the short term now not only based on what Beijing was seeing happening in the war in Russian war against Ukraine but in general think of the internal you know the internal stability Paradigm that China is always pursuing you know everything is centered around the topic of having


you know everything is centered around the topic of having a predictable in domestic process and in the case of a military attack on Taiwan the whole region with the relevant Global chalk points that are providing the critical supply for the China for the Chinese population are going to be blocked in not only in a week but in months maybe and so on through the roots that would mean that you know people will go on the streets because of you know the lack of critical Supply but anyway going back to your main question and that is in case of military attack by China on Taiwan I am not convinced that there will be a coherent approach by Europe that means European institutions and all the 27 member states when it comes to a response I'm also not even convinced that we will be able to let's say launch these comprehensive sanctions the way how we did that Russia European okay that is my point uh and yes the European Union right now is having this kind of I would say ambiguous um comfortable line


this kind of I would say ambiguous um comfortable line of action and policy towards China you know framing China of you know of a partner on certain issues it was mentioned climate change health issues and so on then we have a competitor part that is on economic issues and then we have the system rival part and I'm asking myself if you are framing someone as a system rival uh what are you really actually considering actually playing is an action plan in case that things really deteriorate so we will We may observe a final sentence on my side members that will be very very let's say loyal with the American position on that matter for the sake of their partnership with United States first and foremost and then we will have you know more like I said more constructive line of policy that will try to you know somehow mitigate the risks emerging out of this situation and we may see sanctions but not in this scope not in this certainly not in this course yes and maybe maybe just uh you


in this course yes and maybe maybe just uh you know a final remark which it considers India I think that right now with this bifurcation of the global system with the deepening decoupling between United States and China with Russia's war against Ukraine which I argue that uh is also about the future of the global order it's not just about Ukraine it's not only about the security order in Europe but it's also about the positioning of Russia in this newly emerging systemic conflict I think there may be a big chance for India and the European Union to find a kind of new models with ND for a third way to not get caught in this you know Cold War 2.0 mentality and to you know get caught in a binary choices world but to say we the two uh actors the one is the biggest Democratic democracy Bloc the other is the oldest democracy we can actually merge forces not necessarily to launch a new non-alignment movement but to go a third way that create credible counterweight to to Binary choices


third way that create credible counterweight to to Binary choices and say we don't need a code word 2.0 in this critical period of the international relations tell me you disagree yeah well okay that's the third way that way I'm not so sure if it's how how it will find out but I would I wanted to comment on on this channel first first of all two points uh most most likely okay we don't know but most likely China if China really wants to go after Taiwan there's a various phases I think most likely because you cannot just launch an attack you know it's not like I take my car into in front of the house and just go it will be visible for months and months and months because it's a massive logistic operation but we can assume that that you know what China could do for example have a military exercise around the Taiwan which lasts forever and nobody can come in and out and then you know test with others and see what the Dynamics but your for your direct question about


what the Dynamics but your for your direct question about military assistance you know the reality is if you don't have the we don't have the material not the equipment in Europe but that's actually our big problem and that's actually the discussion so I think the most the biggest support but Europe in that situation realistically could give is is related to sanctions but military assistance Americans don't if you don't have anything but the Americas would like to that's that's a question which I want to come to you uh rui because uh has this War uh blurred the the separation or the lines between uh NATO and uh and EU as far as defense policy is concerned no we're not yet there because there's a difference between the two the membership of the two organizations in the EU for instance we still have neutral countries Ireland Austria just to give two examples Finland and Sweden are about to to to to to leave that status and that is something that it's important when we explain what we we see and what we


when we explain what we we see and what we think and we feel in Europe uh with this uh aggressive posture of Russia is our two countries that were neutral neutral one during 200 years Sweden and the other one almost 80 years in in a few weeks after the the invasion of of Ukraine they have gave up they gave up their that neutrality status which is very impressive and why is that because they feel that they felt that neutrality was not enough anymore to to to provide security though to to to their country so um but but in this in that sense we're still far from from that which is not a negative thing I mean we have NATO which is a political military Alliance defense Alliance which takes care of collective defense of of its members and the European Union as Tommy was saying in the beginning it's it's it's it's made it's mainly a a peace a peace a peace organization I mean the defense started it's a new dimension a relatively new dimension in the European Union


new dimension a relatively new dimension in the European Union it started in the 90s and a very baby steps and now it's Bolder but but still it's a it's uh it's it's not the core business of the European Union and uh because as Tommy were saying it's basically peace prosperity democracy other there's the three pillars of the European Union and uh and that's very important to understand I mean you cannot find more peace lovers in any other region than in Europe after two world wars in which more than 80 million people died the European Union was created to to to to to have to assure that we have peace in Europe and uh and we have never and it's basically an economic organization and not oriented to a military so we have for all reasons to develop a stronger capacity in terms of Defense at the level of the European Union and to be more autonomous that's important but NATO is still uh the the Cornerstone of the European Defense just before I conclude I have two points


European Defense just before I conclude I have two points which I want to touch on uh maybe you can answer that uh on both of you could answer that one is you know the the refugees who are coming in the integration of the refugees because uh in in there is a view that the Scandinavian countries you know this burning of the Quran which has taken place it's caused a little bit of a disruption in the um in the polity in the among the people uh with this influx of refugees if you could both tell me a little bit about these uh these issues with the influx of refugees and now you have even from Ukraine and then there are the climate refugees who are going to come in I think there are already some 8 million of ukrainians in Europe already so how are these how is the refugee problem going to be resolved in the countries culturally as well as yeah both of you could Melina you could just I can start first as a 100 immigrant who actually has


can start first as a 100 immigrant who actually has been saying that for the last 20 years that I'm a perfect example for successful at least I would like to think so successful European integration as someone who has was born in one country moved to study in another and you know got the education from a second and then has built uh you know uh the whole life in a third one and representing this third one as a Austrian citizen I am absolutely strongly propagating that Europe uh given the objective demographic processes in this continent which are pointing to a very let's say pessimistic future in terms of labor force in terms of you know the the population you know you only need to take a look at the Eastern uh eastern part of Europe yes it's devastating I mean there are countries like my home country Bulgaria together with Japan these are the two countries in the world that are having the biggest issue of you know not just aging but disappearing population so migration if handled rightly and you know


population so migration if handled rightly and you know with the right political measures and communicated right you know right right in the right manner is a good thing it's a good thing now what is the problem the problem is that of course and it was already pointed out it's a continent built on peace prosperity stability once the prosperity part is starting you know to shake we had as you heard economic Rises financial crisis and so on and so forth you know populist forces are always capitalizing on the migration card always and because of that the traditional you know party forces are trying somehow to cope with this phenomenon at home because in Democratic societies every politician has to go to the elections after four years that is the reality so migration has been let's say handled probably not in the best Collective way but a lot has happened since then a lot I mean since 2015 a lot has been done at the European Union level and also within the member states and yet of course again and again and


member states and yet of course again and again and this is now again the case of the pandemic and after a war a war is always inflationary the repercussions are huge specifically for small countries once again we have the issue that of course the migration card is being used now I'm not going to refer to the case in Sweden because I don't know all the details so I will refrain from a comment but I will only say that you should also consider migration as something that nowadays because of an interconnected world is a phenomenon that can be also weaponized because and I can give you a concrete example like the case with Belarus that has facilitated migration you know migration Corridor that was before the war and practically exercise pressure on three concrete European Union countries this Corridor was facilitated probably with the help of other external actors but anyway nowadays this is also possible you can exercise political pressure all states by using the migration card so you have two leverages you can you have the domestic leverage because


leverages you can you have the domestic leverage because you're exercising pressure on politicians and then you have the you know external pressure so this is also reality but given the points that you made you know climate change conflicts military you know conflicts Wars the migration is something that is here to stay and it needs to be tackled in a right manner uh it needs to be communicated to the people because and I will give you a final exam you know example alone in Germany in the next 15 to 20 years there will be probably 15 million people that will be retired you know 15 to 20 million according to the official statistics this is one quarter of the whole population so the migration you know the migration is the only solution for these countries to actually keep vibrant economies right I'll give you the final word before we in short we are running out of time yes uh so first of all you mentioned the climate uh you know climate immigration in fact the current wave which you mentioned the numbers are uh are


current wave which you mentioned the numbers are uh are big basically it's because of the war it's war in Syria and uh war in Ukraine those are have created those well actually you know immigrated Refugee flows and uh and uh and uh but the difference for example to 2015 situation which uh as you know we had huge flow of of refugee coming from south the difference is this is now what we call illegal you know legal immigration so so you know those who coming from Ukraine they have a permission it's going rather well in the sense you know there's various reasons for that first of all because ukrainians it's their mainly you know women and children so you know in the public mind you have this uh vision of you know we know what is happening so basically men are going to battle and and you know and the mothers with the children going to live in the country it's heartbreaking so of course the population has a different attitude ukrainians have also there's many ukrainians already before


ukrainians have also there's many ukrainians already before who have networks in in Europe so there's a lot of you know ways of them to tackle their tackle the challenge so that um so that's uh you know one one which is helping so the political problem is at least not yet um yet there secondly you know for the future waves I think there has been for three four five years a lot of question on on border control and uh you know the whole Asylum process make it faster quicker so I think when you know if refugees come or flows of people to Europe I think it will be tackled but you pointed to the right the issue as as it was mentioned already before we have the Aging big aging problem in in Europe which you don't have here in India but we do but but first even knowing that somehow we don't manage the immigration part there is no really good case in in Europe where where this Integrity integration of the immigrants the country itself is growing very very


the immigrants the country itself is growing very very well Sweden was considered one of the moral countries for years but actually what happened it fell apart yeah basically many issues were not discussed yes and I left you know things got related but that will be the you know Challenge and actually you know that there's a commission ahead of European commission and new leaders coming to India also to now to to Market um Europe as a place to work because the need is there we need that uh so we need people to come to Europe but we don't have to make any seem to have we haven't fought the Silver Bullet how to make this integration work and that is the challenge right so like I was saying about this uh integration I'll give you the final word rui that uh what are the what is the what is what holds European Union together geographical cultural ties what what is that that thing that holds it together final Point all of that I mean all of it all of it yes geography culture of course


of it all of it yes geography culture of course uh values values and that is of course and the and the shared objectives as a as we were all mentioning just a quick word if I still have time sure on um on the on the perceptions I mean perceptions sometimes are more important than everything else in international relations but we should not be led by perceptions only this is a this this crisis of around the Ukraine of the war with in Ukraine it's a very serious one and we need to talk to each other I mean and prevent any cleavage between the west and the rest or the North and the South we need to to talk to listens we in Portugal we are in the far west coast of Europe and by history geography geopolitical condition we are used to to talk to everyone and and to bridge sometimes and we think it's very important to listen to the others to their concerns with this crisis but also to explain from from from our perspective in Europe what is going on and this


our perspective in Europe what is going on and this is a serious issue and it's important to talk and this has in a dialogue I think it's very dialogue that we listen to each other and can understand better the different points of view thank you so much thank you gentlemen thank you velina thank you so much for coming on the podcast thank you for watching or listening into this podcast do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste thank you [Music]


I was thrown into politics at that time was let me just be very clear maybe I was numb I did not know how it started at that time and how I took it Forward till here now and sometimes I look back I still um can smell his blood on my hand one very senior journalist she told me once I had asked promoji in 2001 a question that what do you think who will take you know your name forward he said Rahul is very active he will but when my father was in the hospital came in and he just my father was in coma he told him pramod that you know that kind of connection was the alliance Congress hey Congress 26 and Poonam at 42 little better it's very tough to handle your house work be a particular way where you're safe mentally physically politically I'm a cool mother actually their children and their friends also find me very cool area it's like in politics Namaste Jai Hind welcome to another edition of AI podcast with Smitha prakash


to another edition of AI podcast with Smitha prakash many of the viewers and listeners of this podcast have asked us to invite guests from different parts of the country to our Delhi Studios so today we have taken the podcast to Mumbai we have a young politician Poonam Mahajan who has carved a niche for herself in the bharatiya janata party she was known more as her father's daughter but today she will talk to us more about what her vision for her party and her state is poonamji thank you so much for coming on the Ani podcast I always like to have young people come on the podcast and give me their view about what they want India to be so I'm very very grateful that you're here no no I'm honored smithaji and I would I it's it's it's wonderful to be here and not poonamji Poonam as we have seen you and we look up to you as a leader who's taking journalism forward so it's an honor for me that's


forward so it's an honor for me that's so sweet of you thank you uh so I've you know um I've Had The Good Fortune of uh beginning my reporting career in the political field I used to do a little bit of Ministry of external Affairs but political field when your dad was very active in politics so we've had a couple of brushes which were great you know which were abrasive at times of course he was a politician and I was the one asking the questions a little bit of nog joke which is typical right why not yeah I think he could even take that forward absolutely and with advani ji and I met him several times uh and then uh it was this very difficult phase uh when I saw you enter politics many of us in Delhi was shocked at that incident which happened for you it was a trial by fire before you got into politics it's such a young age you were just 26 and you were thrown into uh you know into politics at that


were thrown into uh you know into politics at that young age what what did you think at that time like it was those are very big shoes to fill your dad's um I did not think of filling his shoes first of all because I know I'm Poonam pramod Mahajan but I'm not pramod Mahajan once that's clear in my head I can take my it just I do have his blessings luckily his name uh Good Fortune where he has touched many lives where people are nice to me and they try to teach me on my path what better I can do sometimes when I make mistake also they can tell me that your father wouldn't have liked it this is how it should be I was thrown into politics at that time was let me just be very clear maybe I was numb I did not know how it started at that time and how I took it Forward till here now um I won't be telling you the it won't be it's a truth that at that time that


be it's a truth that at that time that was the only area we just wanted to as family to take this thing forward um I don't have any any explanation to that it's not like I was getting ready for politics yes a lot of things we saw with him maybe I was always stuck to me as a little kid he wanted to always spend time with me so I did learn something which was very subconsciously saying certain things but um yes it was a dramatically tough time and again I feel being his daughter has given me a lot of strength there was a lot of positives also and a lot of negatives also and in my path where I lost an election then won an election got a lot of opportunities to work forward I learned a lot I learned a lot 26 and Poonam at 42 little better I wouldn't be saying but a great learning experience and trying to do better you know you said that um many people would come and say to you that your father wouldn't


come and say to you that your father wouldn't have done this or your father wouldn't have liked what you're doing or whatever it's hard for uh for the young the Next Generation whether a boy or a girl to chart your own path because everybody expects you to be your dad oh Mom my mother I couldn't be because she's really too good a mother and it's my mother is very calmer and a very composed person positive I couldn't take any trade from her sadly but my father yeah there are certain things which maybe I also have it in me maybe if you tell me Poonam you have to come at certain time what work is given to you you have to I take everything as a project and I need to excel in that competitively that I got it from my father but again I tell people it's wonderful that look at me as you know you could be like him but I am not pramod Mahajan I'm lucky to be Poonam pramod Mahajan and that's my identity and


pramod Mahajan and that's my identity and that's how I took it forward I'm lucky to have his name lot of love and support from people experiences that bloodline DNA but if I start thinking like that maybe I'll just deviate my life into a very different arrogant route to take it Forward I know where I stand took her very early no in the sense that first you lose your dad and then you lose your first election oh badly that too badly like it was it was just a big girl reality check again and then I realized that Poonam you need to learn I made lot of mistakes in that election before that certain ways and I think those mistakes taught me a lot and that's why I'm here so yes but now if we get hooker also prepare yourself good uh Philosophy for Life uh especially for youngsters you know who maybe had a softer calmer uh childhood and then suddenly Comes This jolt which you're not prepared for it right see childhood was always gamma for


prepared for it right see childhood was always gamma for everyone and I've seen my father's hard work living in a two-bedroom house typical Marathi medium girl in a Marathi household uh where uh first natas didn't have a place to stay my job is to give used to be to give a glass of water uh tatalawa just put plates uh Putnam and sing Dana Chutney which is very famous from marathavada that was my job sabzi I could not keep because I was too small to do my mother said you always make a mess maybe from there then listening to everyone I think that learning from there to seeing my father taking a note as the First Defense Minister for NDA in 1996 his speeches there is a lot I saw and then suddenly at 2006 you know and I was on a call with him and it happened just in 10 minutes so you don't forget this but yeah life has completely changed I cannot say they'll be the same more comfortable life I look at you uh you


same more comfortable life I look at you uh you were one of the first who saw the body right he was still alive because of course we we um we I lived just few buildings I used to live few buildings away from him and it's all in the deposition also in court I got a call and he was supposed to come to my house we used to exercise together chit chat at the time and there was a delay in timing because I told him come bit later and in that 10 minutes a lot of things happened I ran to him we picked him I picked him by myself and sometimes I look back I still um can smell his blood on my hand I mean it must be a painful thing and I don't make a I don't explain these things to your mother was in the room my mother was there and Monday she was there um the staff who were standing there that boy was there and uh it just it it was a traumatic time I could see him sitting on a


traumatic time I could see him sitting on a sofa hurt and in a shock that why did this happen to me I mean bleeding profusely actually it was more of an internal bleeding my mother had tied the butter it frankly it's hazy but still clear because early in the morning you do not expect something like this to happen we just decided we were on the 15th floor so smaller lifts how it goes and just pick him and go that time we didn't have a ceiling so we had to go from the other road to hinduja um it it was just traumatic you don't understand what was going on and then it we just took him I spoke to him in the lift and imagine when I was talking to him and of course it's all over in news also he said what did I do wrong that I had to see this in my life I've given everything to everyone to my siblings and you know whatever I could do and I just told my father when I


could do and I just told my father when I was holding him he was too heavy for me to hold imagine and I just say Baba don't worry Shri ganeshayana this is the new phase in our life everything is going to change and we'll do better but I did not know that new phase will be without him so and then we reached hospital my whole family was there my husband was there my friends everybody came but my brother came I don't remember the thousands of people were there so and those 12 days are hazy a lot of things happened people came and went uh hazy and then he just yeah it's it was a long traumatic time after that also when he passed away it wasn't as if it was over right then the court thing started after that yeah I was just talking to someone the other day sitting I think outside code number 35 and every day reading through the depositions what was going on not a lawyer just a commercial pilot because there was nothing left in my


a commercial pilot because there was nothing left in my life for all of us actually and we really found wanted to fight that case because when there is a bigger name involved politically or any bigger name people also talk there's always a conspiracy theory of people attaching it to something else you know it is interesting for people to make up story and I wanted to fight for the truth so yeah it it was a very difficult time and we um we're just sailing through you pointed to your uncle and you said that he's the one who made me an orphan he did and that was my that was the turning point in the case I guess when you turned uh I think I don't know which was the Turning Point frankly no idea and that was not important to me but yeah I tried to keep myself calmer what is it like coming face to face with your father's killer if I may ask you a very personal question um we see what is going on in a person's mind you'll never know


going on in a person's mind you'll never know and what was going in my mind will be always remain in my mind uh because it's not worth as a daughter there were a lot of things were going on in my heart and and you're still numb why I mean I've seen growing up everybody getting their Fair chances from a oldest brother whose father passed away really young at his 21 years of age and then taking care of everyone as a family and giving everything but it just doesn't matter anymore this because he's gone and it's it's still whenever I meet anyone in Parliament anywhere they remember him makes me feel a bit peaceful to the Past what we have seen a bit peaceful you know you said um and I'll quote you I know who killed my father but how is it those in power did not get to know about this when you were in power you never found out who was The Mastermind behind it you know you you identified your father's killer but then you're saying


you identified your father's killer but then you're saying there's a mastermind or you said there's a mastermind yeah I did say that there is a reason because it cannot be a reason for a person to kill his brother who he believed was his like his father he was a four-year-old when his father passed away and I never saw them uncomfortable with each other to an extent where there was this kind of anger um someone has to put something in someone's mind to be so extreme with small issues it couldn't be just this momentary could be couldn't be no there was nothing so serious for momentarily also maybe it cannot be a frankly I mean I'm just trying to explain it that way it can't be a momentarily thing so does that does a tragedy of this enormous nature does it kind of Define your relationships in politics because you know your your father was always surrounded by people he was always there he was available for whoever wanted to meet him and things um and then comes this


to meet him and things um and then comes this tragedy in your life do you I know you you say that you can't fit into his shoes but does that kind of always play on you that oh my God he went away like this now I've got to do what he what the life he led if I will keep thinking like this it will be a disaster for me and a failure for me I just take every day with I take every step thinking that let me make this better in coming times how do I make self look better I just don't want tomorrow people to say promote these are smaller things I work on and that drives me because my mother always used to say your father was a person in Marathi they say and that kind of you know this charismatic hero my father was and still in anybody's heart you ask anybody in bgp or outside BJP and recently again his that Lok Sabha speech has been viral all over so the younger generation also who are born after 90


so the younger generation also who are born after 90 won't be knowing what actually had happened and who pramod Mahajan was it again has come in everybody's mind I think that makes me happy but what you're talking about yeah all uncles and aunts who I used to serve became G's and sirs so it takes a little time for me to understand that transition and it takes very few people's maturity to accept me in that transition if I put it in a right way so I did make mistakes and I did face lot of difficulties with those mistakes so they were all those people at home because my father used to have all takes everything in my house I got married at 21. so missing Poonam was his favorite agenda and having meetings in a house versus double favorite agenda so I could see everybody all the time um going for speeches please take me Baba so my mother will sit down where all the people are sitting so maybe uh unconsciously he was probably molding you I


maybe uh unconsciously he was probably molding you I don't know I the other day I met um I was not ready but the other day I met one very senior journalist she told me once I had asked promoji in 2001 a question then what do you think who will take you know your name forward he said Rahul is very active he will but so that I think that she told me when I joined politics then I said I cannot hear so you were into in 2016 uh when you got that constituency it was a congress 14 years 2014. so uh when you got in into that were you set up to lose you know who thought oh now that uh promoji is gone they many thought oh okay you know we have an entry because when he was there he was such a colossal figure that it was very difficult uh to dislodge him because he was everything uh you know in Maharashtra and in the center he was without promotion they literally had nobody to Mastermind an election for


they literally had nobody to Mastermind an election for them uh the BJP for you guys I shouldn't say them for the BJP I meant the BJP so you know there are many who thought okay but then when they saw that it's pramod mahajan's daughter so there was this talk at that time I remember that set her up for a failure because we can't have her getting in at that time did you sense that or was it just political gossip I didn't know about this because and I'm happy to hear this it gives me more you know strength to fight it more it's good competition also healthy um this seat nobody was fighting frankly I met a lot of big leaders later on coming in BJP from Bollywood and certain known places police they said maybe it's uh I believe in myself I actually wanted to see being my father's daughter people always push you to Dynasty but I did not get his space or his constituency I started and paved my own way so that


I started and paved my own way so that constituency was considered as a very difficult yeah Congress guard a difficult constituency and I wanted the Northeast constituency it was a known fact that my father and the MP who was from there kiriji had lost so logically it was not against and logically I wanted to contest from there because I knew the place born and brought up there it didn't work out maybe they did the survey you don't know it didn't work out then I said I'm ready to contest this also just trust me because being in youth Wing since 2007 I knew each and every constituency my job is always to study to know and more and I said this constituency of BJP last time we lost it by a lack and a half vote because you need a Marathi face for this constituency always we have a Marathi speaking but non-marathi MP contesting in Mumbai many times so give me this opportunity my Marathi because a typical Marathi movie it will help


Marathi because a typical Marathi movie it will help Modi ji's trust me modiji will sweep this seat so people said trust me people and their belief and I could you know my I believe in calculations and then of course my sixth sense and my belief nobody believed that that for sure nobody believed many people said and so the Bollywood might the glamor against you is it I don't know they are very uh few in numbers fewer numbers if you see the constituency when you land the entire area around the airport bandra is it's not so pandra West there are certain places which have certain Bollywood uh who's who I don't know how many come out to vote because I have not seen many people coming out to vote but now of course a lot of people have understood that democracy is important voting is important but that's not only the constituency in bandra there are a lot of other alms certain people who have been working for so much so tell me um you know uh


for so much so tell me um you know uh there's a lot of talk that uh that what has happened in recent past like uh the the shiv Cena breaking up uh the whole coup that happened everybody being taken to Assam and then this happens there was supposed to be this tsunami of people who will come over from udhasena into the shinde Cena that your uh that your Coalition will become stronger that but that doesn't seem to have happened why is that so the history of ships and bharti janta parties Alliance I've seen it very closely and from 1989's India Fine Arts big program where baltha gray was there and we started working towards how we will fight together till barasaheb and my father's note joke you know many times he'll say pramod this is not good and I still remember I have a lot of love towards parasite when my father was in the hospital came the last day doctor said it's not going to be possible for


day doctor said it's not going to be possible for him he came in and he just my father was in coma he told him pramod that you know that kind of connection was the alliance at that time later on after my father's demise Alliance also had its own other permutation combination other leadership connecting with each other so it was not the same Alliance which had no joke serious fights and it was completely different and the new alliance you're talking about I think we are working together and um it looks fairly good okay so um there was the slogan of you know in the center Narendra and then the state Devendra now that keeps coming up in the BJP State unit obviously it's not a very happy situation for a sitting chief minister to be told that his Alliance partner obviously a larger partner in this even though the numbers and whatever you might say in the State uh but in the whole bigger focus it is a larger partner so it's not a very comfortable situation


partner so it's not a very comfortable situation to know that your Reliance partner wants somebody else's chief minister see on a larger Prospect when you look at maharashtra's politics um how the alliances are made and suddenly everything the group got together just to oppose a leader Narendra Modi purposely and this this is not only a story of Maharashtra this started from Maharashtra to get everyone together in India to create an alliance just because they don't have their own power so this was the basic Foundation started from Maharashtra uh what happened with BJP and this shindeer Lions um foreign the message which we wanted to give to polity was very important to show that democratically select elected government suddenly Alliance is broken because you wanted certain things now what has happened in a room again that discussion comes out but then the government also with your non-ideological friends with our naughty ideological friends your father wouldn't have approved this is how udavji went forward with and there was nothing


how udavji went forward with and there was nothing happening in two and a half years when they were in power so the message was very important when you say nothing was happening what do you mean um in state of Maharashtra it was the three-party government was actually trying to survive on each other and certain aspects where they were letting go each other's even ideological differences yeah to hold on to their financial agreements that was the only thing I could look forward to financial agreements yeah because I could not see a single project which I was part of cm's war room with when Dave energy was the CM I was the only MP who was part of that war room with all the officers I have been part of making Metro nagpur samrati Maha I've learned from it I was fortunate enough to be part of it and when you see suddenly you don't want to work on the aspects which actually would have taken Maharashtra forward infrastructure bases and people Health infrastructure and health care and everything


bases and people Health infrastructure and health care and everything was about politics with each other and divided properties to each other just divided Properties by dispute but disputed properties cut politics was going on and I'm being very open about it and we have seen it in Mumbai for past many videos so for that to give a right message and even look at Mr shinde um I think this must have happened when Mr Chandra Babu Naidu when he broke the party and came out from his father-in-law's Shadow and lot of people supported him I think after that I don't think such a big bhukamp of political party we must have ever seen and it was a right message to give and which that message should have been respected I think are uh leadership gave a right message where and now the CM and DCM are working together very well uh taking every uh infra project together divided work taking things forward which is very important for us right now you said you were part of the war room so uh you


you were part of the war room so uh you know I had uh Priyanka chaturvedi also on this uh podcast she says that uh for certain there was a promise made to udav takare that he would be chief minister you were part of the War Room and that war room there are only few people see even uh the press conference she's talking about I was there I was the youth Wing president my boss that time was Amit Shah I worked under him for four years and uh we could not see anything which was I don't know what happened in behind doors but I know what Amit Bhai will come out and say is 100 true he doesn't have to hide behind the bushes and say if that discussion would have happened you could see on the faces of those leaders or in that press conference or afterward as a murder that nothing happened suddenly after 2019 election there was a you just wanted to create a certain drama to get more maybe out of certain thing


drama to get more maybe out of certain thing or taking certain things forward you cannot say something which has not happened you know before the press conference you would have known maybe your reporters would have known you know I don't think even there was a little bit of gossip about this that something else happened inside an Amit Bhai promised something which is not coming out so it is only one man saying it who's the second man supporting this it's family member only supporting that dialogue so I don't know what to say about it and you do take on both of them don't you yeah politically yes I have a lot of respect for them because you've known them also since childhood yeah yeah very much very much uh we shared a lot of good interest also together not political but with yes yes we used to yeah uh but when it comes to political ideology not an affair it's all fair because they always did that I had my experiences also when we were in Alliance so there were a


also when we were in Alliance so there were a lot of immature decisions also in the family they take it which is not correct but now here we are and there they are okay so this um until the last moment the talk in the media was who who and even now uh so far as a couple of weeks ago you know fadnavis G said that centered because as usual the gossip again is when is there going to be a reshuffle is going to go to Center what is going to happen but you know the gossip right now especially in this government and dispensation [Laughter] has been perfect isn't it I wish I could be trained more under him because he's one of the persons I look up to uh learned a lot and he gave me a freedom I mean I that attitude he has and maybe I can see ansh of my father and few people he's one of them a certain way of the mathematics and politics where is the right you know that he do but coming back to


right you know that he do but coming back to your question I think that decision is very respectfully was taken by both the parties BJP and balasaheb and the shindeer alliance and uh I don't think there is any uncomfortable air anywhere and once what a party and party leaders tell us I think that's what we follow okay so you know recently udhav ji said that uh pankaja munde is welcome into our party uh for those who wouldn't know much about Maharashtra politics she's your cousin and many feel that she has felt or she hasn't said anything but they feel that she probably got a raw deal after her father passed away your uncle I don't think so and she will also not support this because she was the most important minister in Devendra fadnova's government and she worked hard for it yes unfortunately she lost her election and when you lose an election because I have lost an election those five years are very difficult uh because you have to regain that first of all faith


because you have to regain that first of all faith in yourself how did that happen and then you have to correct your mistakes and certain ways to take things forward in that time problem with even media I mean I don't have any problem with that but they have to also to allow their 24 7 channels and so many channels are there in every medium Marathi in other languages also you need some kind of story sometimes you say something and it just comes out a little more what people think actually what the person has said now udavji wants to welcome anyone does not mean anybody wants to go to him but yeah because Sanjay Roth also said that neither Poonam Mahajan nor pankaja munde have got their due considering that it was their fathers both their fathers who set up uh BJP and uh in in in Maharashtra they are the founders of bjp's footprint so the two daughters haven't got their it's not a private limited company private Limited uh I was fortunate enough to win Lok


Limited uh I was fortunate enough to win Lok Sabha twice I became the National Youth Wing president because and I become I get that opportunity that means party is doing nothing for me abhi yeah respectfully contents this whole thing about nepotism it's a big thing you know for quite some time has always said so many of the others even now Cynthia also has joined your party now latest is Manpreet battle is also there now these are all political families you can't help it so does it make this whole Bhai batija allegation which is the BJP makes they have to go on the back foot do you think that is the nepo kid in the work language which has been called by all the youngsters they call you that not many but they call many people like that I'm just trying to be cooler being a Mumbai MP so that's what they use it in their Twitter slang the now Dynasty sounds very kissy it sounds pretty cool if it comes to me first first of all after my


it comes to me first first of all after my father's demise I did not got into a rajya Sabha which he left or I did not become a national general secretary because he was there I started as a Yuva morcha Maharashtra Maha mantri where I started my work then became National vice president after three years handled Tamil Nadu Karnataka these states were given to me where bgp was just Rising with youth specially and then I became a national secretary then Member of Parliament then you are mocha there it was not so quick for me and I don't think in BJP huh yeah [Music] their family get one opportunity for sure most of the times because that's even my father had set up that role which is not wrong does not mean they get everything what that man had or the woman who they lost or even when you talk about vasundaraji it was her constituency which has given it to her son tomorrow if you do a survey her son if he's not winnable


do a survey her son if he's not winnable tomorrow maybe someone else will get it tomorrow Poonam is not winnable somewhere else but because a person is someone's son or someone's daughter they're not holding that position that's what I'm trying to say uh I mean it's not about again I'm saying private limited company when the Congress president's son says that hamare parivar we all are together so getting someone to win winnability of election is uh I think accepted and I start with my own example yeah so and I try to say it I'm not the nipple kid you're talking about which you can see it in ships and uh maybe any other Southern parties and in Congress so when you yeah you in fact in your parliamentary speeches uh you keep saying that you know you accuse the Congress you don't really talk about women's issues you're only talking about a certain woman in her standing behind her yeah yes I do very straight with respect to that uh Sonia ji I mean I


with respect to that uh Sonia ji I mean I openly say it with due respect but they also who are the women who have done well in Congress very few and they compare it to bgp I find it quite laughable because if tomorrow Mrs Gandhi says that I would not be working Congress foreign he always goes on with God bless him I mean sometimes politically I don't know how much to stay say to a certain person I mean we really work hard constituency I mean that's good one thing I can see is fit physically but it's also revived the Congress to some extent like at least that's what I'm saying physically fit mentally a fitness there was a break you should have done that there are a lot of things intellectually it irritates me you speak with people in your constituency are they how are the Congress loyal Congress people reacting and how are people reacting in your constituency I I haven't seen the leaders of my constituency going and joining that's Point number one


my constituency going and joining that's Point number one uh Point number two um Congress Congress hey Congress if he used to see the state of Maharashtra is they have their own status there that's why they are winning then you call them as a congress voter called a vote or B persons vote C persons vote it doesn't matter foreign foreign how long that will go because NCP itself has its own leadership issues yeah so again even NCP sees it and nobody wants to talk about it because right now that's the mothership who's handling these little ships so they are trying to balance Congress and so what are the big issues tell me uh that Maharashtra will need to be you know will need to focus uh in uh in 2024 as the state goes closer to the national elections first that and the state elections what are the major issues because you know rest of the country thinks that are Maharashtra like you know it's a Rich place then why farmer suicides you have huge uh resources you have


farmer suicides you have huge uh resources you have everything going for you then why do you have people killing themselves see Maharashtra the problem is right now what we look at Maharashtra in political circumstances and fighting with each other that's not the Maharashtra we want to show to people 2014 to 2019 when BJP and chips and over in government we had our chief minister we worked on policies and Maharashtra people have to look Maharashtra Beyond Mumbai there is a Mumbai Metropolitan region which has 10 MPS and there is again Maharashtra which has nagpur marathwada which is a dry dead state where I come from the entire with her uttar Maharashtra Maharashtra is divided into this and we have of course very good resources we want to make Maharashtra as a fastest growing economy and we were doing that by 2019. in just those two and a half years from 2019 Reese till recently last year by June everything was divided into again I'm saying their own regions


was divided into again I'm saying their own regions and their own properties which they can earn from what we want to look forward to again though it was about infrastructure of Maharashtra connectivity of Maharashtra Farmers policies uh one very good uh idea Maharashtra government had done that the connectivity of water farmers and policies reaching out to Farmers the problem is these Cooperative Banks which are held by still held by many Congress and NCP leaders it was actually not reaching down to people the farmers who actually contribute in Maharashtra we want to get back to the same Maharashtra which we were working on from 2014 to 19 where we had the largest jatia morchas by supported a few political parties but the communication was good coordination was good everything they tried to stir up but Maharashtra was taking its you know driving its force with that making Maharashtra as a stronger State Mumbai 25 almost 25 percent of GDP Maharashtra contributes in India so how does Maharashtra take this forward and


India so how does Maharashtra take this forward and Farmers policies were not actually implemented in past two and a half years yeah we saw covet we understand that but because of covet I don't think any policies were stopped we still have 80 crore people getting a notch at their houses so it was more political we could see in Maharashtra in two and a half years which pushed back Maharashtra for many many years again but now suddenly since we are back in power metros are getting ready is ready infrastructure projects are ready building hospitals Health infrastructure working for Farmers whatever due was there for past two and a half years for Farmers have been paid so I think that growth we want to take this board in a very faster pace and people in Maharashtra are intellectual we always call it santoki bhumi hair we have so many fabulous writers coming from here so that Maharashtra again has to come together which was divided by political ideology by certain parties do you think that maharashtrians


certain parties do you think that maharashtrians by and large see a larger perspective they do they do and when we talk to people he foreign I think we are doing something right you know BJP is said to thrive only when they are on their own as a coalition partner it and as you know as a junior partner simply because you know your person is a deputy chief minister so do app automatically Junior partner it sits it's a little uneasy you will go into 2024 in a partnership only I don't think I should be saying anything about this right now but uh I remember 1995 to 1999 when we had shifts in our BJP coalition government ships and had their CM or hamare DCM but there were two stronger leader who did not let things you know there was a balance is the home minister and deputy chief minister was a bigger leader so it was balasaha and promoji used to coordinate things were not uneasy of course shivsana has a style of you know um


course shivsana has a style of you know um that attitude very nice I don't know how to put it forward we used to balance it out what happened was after balasaheb that same maturity and that you know balancing attitude but just went down and then miscommunication started and of course then we realized miscommunications so in coming times I completely believe I still remember in 2004 elections same thing happened balasah was not taking many decisions it was handling certain elections at that time also it little bit irritated in my father that they're not the same how it should be going and he said that was my father's life so of course BJP always said shut up when my father planned this alliance with shipsana does not mean that BJP always wanted an alliance so bgp when they are alone they do well but we take care of our alliance Partners also what happens in 2024 right now for us is Mumbai election very important coming first nagar palika elections after that bigger


coming first nagar palika elections after that bigger Corporation elections where we know we'll do well but taking the promises of people forward and again working on a hat-trick for honorable prime minister Narendra Modi because that's a leadership right now India especially in the world we need it yeah so um even in Karnataka the party is going to go in with Modi as the face and even in the nine states which are going to polls it's going to be he's going to be leading the campaign and the agenda as such um in Maharashtra in in these smaller elections which are like the semi-finals quarter finals to 2024 it's going to be modiji's face was the Prime Minister we used to push atalji's face as a main face for every election and we had uh State leaders who could take the agenda forward so it's nothing new modiji's popularity and his way of connecting with people is I mean if I say historical which everybody knows um in every state election also we have state faces


um in every state election also we have state faces when fadnavasji was there and still here of course we'll be contesting her election under his leadership because and the State president of Maharashtra which will always do it so this quarter final semi-final we still need a main leader we are not saying Modi ji has to come down to fight for us he is coming he's coming because there are such big projects first time the old Victoria Terminus which became chatrapati shivaji Maharaja Terminus in the BJP government is gonna get a big facelift Mumbai cars who are suffering in those trains are getting more and more better and that comes under Railway Ministry so we want our prime minister to come and say you will have your traffic issues I apologize for the MBA government that they did not do anything but now you'll see by 2024 you will have Metro three and then bullet train will connect it will go forward so because I know how it works when the bgp government is there so don't


works when the bgp government is there so don't worry okay okay so I let me come back to Parliament you know you were talking about how Parliament session he's going on but you have a very good attendance record in 78 percent 70 questions that's a very good record uh of sorts we have better once again competitive ways you're all competing with each other in the BJP that's her you're not competing with others it's because when you have any boss who's actively involved in everything 24 7 working numbers you know this is very important this teaches us if we are tomorrow's leaders and people are expecting you to perform well this India have such a big population being the world leader now and in coming 25 years when we celebrate 100 Years of Independence we will be somewhere there so we need to learn from the great you know after after the executive was over the meeting was over he came out and he said that the Prime Minister said that in the next few years like you have to you're in


the next few years like you have to you're in this position is important every bit of you has to work towards you know bringing this nation forward I agree so uh it's it's a big ask out of everybody that you have to set aside everything else and just work is it it's not a big ass for a BJP caricarta frankly I remember my father was I mean I was not born at that time but the stories I always hear my mother telling me my father was in jail for 18 months in emergency in nasik jail where actually he learned how to give speeches reading books so for a BJP person giving their 24 7 100 I don't think it's too much to ask we are built like that we are built like that I don't know I mean I don't believe that other parties have ever done that is so for us it's not a ask it's more of an excitement you know loving your country fighting for your country that nationalism if we don't have it hyper


country that nationalism if we don't have it hyper nationalism but this anti-nationalism is also not accepted that you want to be just this armchair liberal person sitting and saying uh you should be proud of it that we are discussing 75 years if you go to those liberals go Europe or America discuss their history and say yes very quick to label other people now and we are not labeling anyone but it's not our job but I do call a lot of people um there is a left narrative which of course many of my friends which are not very uh in the main dhara of the country so sometimes we have issues why will I call them anti-national I'm just saying hyper nationalism and Hyper anti-nationalism is not even in the Bombay film industry if you notice that people the Bombay film industry is now saying that this this whole thing has it's originated politically and then it became mainstream where if you bring anything which is mildly controversial or something it becomes highly sensitive or


controversial or something it becomes highly sensitive or immediately anti-national I mean now it's a free world where you have social media now there are many you also face I also face faceless nameless amazing people who like to question you all the time I have no idea why but film industry is saying the Bollywood so-called Hindi sorry Indian film industry that we are labeling them I don't think so I mean all of them you know um but I believe it was even discussed uh like the Prime Minister also said um what he said I really supported it I clapped for it I said that yeah see uh foreign a lot of people talk about vulgarity in a certain discussion I say I understand key vulgarity nudity Society how do we behave how do we act what should we what is our responsibility towards the society in such but you cannot be every time freedom of expression I don't believe in that how do we take this nation forward that the problem is people have opinion on everything


forward that the problem is people have opinion on everything Sometimes some people ask me what do you think about certain things I said I don't know anything about it why should I talk about it so this that's a very young politician maybe I'm an old soul but you did speak with Java Farmers you immediately said yes I've seen it very close friends of mine also creating this narrative they're still good friends of mine but narrative you see it's even among journalists this divisions occur but uh there was a time division see I don't believe see maybe I try to balance the yesterday's style of working today style of working where without social media how people used to communicate um I don't care uh if people question foreign so you have to decide uh where now Urban nuxil I call them but I meet those friends they are my very good friends uh this sometimes they say it on my face your party is this I said yeah your idea is this this is not good there is a lot of good


this is not good there is a lot of good pulling legs up to us also problem is so we are just following a certain way I think now this hyper ADHD generation that's why I keep calmer to tell them I'm more aggressive but I've realized if I become aggressive 24 7. this is what people will even follow so you have children who are a young generation yeah I'm learning from them yes yes they're Genesis disease so do they tell you mom don't say this moms no not at all they find me pretty cool I'm a cool mother actually they're children and their friends also find me very cool area because I know my son is my voter now he's 18 now oh goodness so I need to balance but it's yeah I I learned from them and sometimes about certain so my daughter said what is going on this TV um I said someone's wearing little clothes that's why there's a discussion going on in a certain Channel but that's her decision right I said will you wear this


that's her decision right I said will you wear this she said I don't like to wear that does not mean she should not wear it I said okay I'll remember this yeah so he said but she's not naked I mean my she lost she's almost 10 then you have to think of it certain way in society where we are going and when people are looking at you as your leaders of the society we cannot be just following the trend so you're receptive to ideas henna yeah very much very much not to my sons and daughters ideas much because no is the only answer I give the first time so do you want to stay with a state politics do you want to go into Center at some point of time what is your what is your dream uh as far as your career in politics is concerned it's like in politics because it's such a difficult uh and specially I won't generalize it but as a woman also it's very tough to handle your house work be a particular way where


to handle your house work be a particular way where you're safe mentally physically politically there are a lot of aspects you have to look at um I haven't dreamed anything coming into politics was not my dream but I take it as a project that I have to do well my only agenda is whatever has come to me I cannot fail it I have to do better because this is what my father did now that always plays on me subconsciously I just I'm concentrating on my constituency I want to show 2024 also though there are three parties together six parties together okay for me my agendas are very clear and whatever responsibility is given to me I enjoyed my four years of you are more Justin Northeast South where actually you are much I was not growing made a lot of friends first time I was the first year much who went to Srinagar had a huge rally so I'm at a right pace where we want now Maharashtra to come out of this whole fight between certain private


to come out of this whole fight between certain private limited parties and take Maharashtra forward with India and 2024 is going to be a cakewalk for PJP in Maharashtra and in the country you feel you know I don't want to sound overconfident saying Cakewalk but I'm extremely confident that people when I meet people their faith in pgp an honorable prime minister their expectations from us make us realize [Music] going through my constituency only so double indices well wishing you all the luck Poonam thank you so much for being part of the podcast and I hope you go forward and make India proud and make your party proud try my best thank you so much thank you thank you for watching or listening into this podcast do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste thank you foreign [Music]


before 1982 India didn't have one single missile which it has developed on its own today we have developed feet and we are developed the series of acne missiles and then other missiles like cruise missiles nearby and brahmos then we have also developed air-to-air missile Astra then we have developed the Akash surface to her missile India is one of the six countries which have developed their own main battle tank arshan the 155 mm artillery gun has been developed in the country and you must have heard honorable prime minister talking about it on 15th of August attacks was used in the firing on that 15th August ceremonial firing and he said well today recognizes India as having multiple Technologies and multiple systems and that's why we see that there are lots of inquiries coming from many countries across the globe the call given by honorable prime minister that make for the world he is helping giving the Boost to the industries I feel that the youngsters the way the number of startups


that the youngsters the way the number of startups have come the way they are joining these organizations it's a movement which has come up in the country Namaste welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash if you open your Twitter feed your Instagram or your Facebook page how many of you are following scientists not many I'm guessing how many posts do you get about information about scientific achievements of our countrymen and women hardly any most of you like me would get bombarded with information about politicians actors models and some sports persons but science not really now let's think about this that many of us when we were children wanted to become say a NASA scientist a marine biologist a fighter pilot but then somewhere along the line we picked up mundane jobs and those dreams died today my guest is a scientist he wanted to be a scientist and he pursued his dream Dr Satish Reddy headed the defense research and development organization and is currently Scientific Advisor to raksha mantri dealing with a program which


to raksha mantri dealing with a program which spearheads India's indigenous development of Defense systems and Technologies joining me in this conversation is my colleague Ajit Dubai defense editor of ani Dr Reddy thank you very much for coming on the podcast I've met you off camera many times it's taken a long time for Ajit and me to get you on camera here um thank you so Ajit you'll have to assist me in these in this conversation because you have the domain expertise let's begin with the India's strategic missile program I have a brief explainer for those who don't know about it and then we can get on with the conversation India's integrated guided missile program igmdp was launched in 1982-83. it can of prithvi the short range surface-to-surface missile trishul the short-range surface-to-air missile Akash medium range surface-to-air missile nag the third generation anti-tank missile Agni 1 Agni missile was separated from the igmdp due to its strategic importance Dr Reddy now please give us


its strategic importance Dr Reddy now please give us an overview of this missile system Indian missile program has gone long way and a number of missiles have been developed varieties of missiles have been developed and the missiles whether it is surface to surface missiles or Surface to air missiles or air-to-air missiles or anti-tank missiles and many other varieties of missiles which have been developed in the country and the country has gained a lot of knowledge and has become I say that self-sufficient and self-reliant in the missile Technologies today by developing all these varieties of missiles range of missiles what Any Nation would like to have based on their Necessities the country has developed all this and in the process developed multiple Technologies also which are required part of these missiles right let's go back a little into history you know many of our listeners and viewers wouldn't know about the many hurdles that came in the way of India developing its missile program after India testified the first prithvi


missile program after India testified the first prithvi missile in 1988 and the Agni missile in 1989 the missile technology control regime then it was an informal grouping established in 1987 by Canada France Germany Italy Japan the UK and the US they decided to restrict access to any technology that would help India in its missile development program to counter this the igmdp team formed a Consortium of drdo Laboratories Industries and academic institutions to build these subsystems and components and materials though this slow down the progress of the program India successfully developed indigenously all the restricted components denied to it by this regime so I want you to go a little bit into the history about how the West came down cracking on us in the 1980s to restrict our missile program why it happened and how did the Indian defense set up the drdo and all get over these restrictions a very important question um when the country started this missiles program when we tested Agni and when we had tests at okran and other


and when we had tests at okran and other tests so there have been restrictions put on this country the missile control regimes and things like that so the various sub components or critical systems subsystems which we have been dependent on the foreign Nations that have become very restricted but I think that has helped the country and you have to develop yourself and so that was taken as a mission to develop all these critical subsystems and components which are required in these missiles Technologies they all have been developed over a period of time indigenous indigenously and Industry could take that and Industry is producing and today I can say that the indigence content in our missile programs is very very high and I can definitely say that we are not dependent for any critical subsystems and things like that from anyone and all these things are developed here in the country and Industry is able to produce them and that's how the missiles are also getting developed very fast as you have the complete to know how one know why in the


the complete to know how one know why in the country but so at that time it must have set us back quite a bit isn't it when suddenly it just there was a freeze and how how much did it set us back adding to it sir you have been a scientist since mid 80s you must have faced personally you have been associated in the missile Labs what difficulties did you people used to face at that time because of this restrictive regimes see what has happened is we were also in the phase of development of the missiles and so you are not looking for you know large number of subsystems or components what you get from outside the day we started the missile programs the leadership at that time definitely thought that we also let us develop parallel and then parallel development has also work started off these subsystems and critical Technologies when there has been a restriction which has come into picture so definitely that has put us into some troubles that you are not able to immediately get anything what you


you are not able to immediately get anything what you look for and all that and some what you have already got them which are there in the stock you use it for immediate use and so the indigenous program has been accelerated and they have been in a very serious importance is given to that and lots of teams have been put in and industries have been brought in parallely and there have been a very serious Trust on that like example at the time I was a young navigational engineer and we were having the navigational sensors and components which we were getting from outside from where various countries from outside and those things we immediately worked on it and we could make uh indigenously all those things where where were we making it uh we were making it with various Industries development was happened in RCI where I was working but this particular sensor because that is the lab which is responsible for this in the initial navigation systems and we could develop in the laboratory there and industries have worked


in the laboratory there and industries have worked with us and even in fact the public sectors that time Hal and bell and then couple of private Industries together we could develop it in very fast and we can say that in those Technologies now we are completely self-reliant and we could develop it I don't think there was a serious setback or anything yes there was some uh you know some delay in some programs but then country could cope up and that is what is the best has happened to the country yes you could develop necessity being mother of invention you're right yeah that's the thing at that time so we developed those critical Technologies at that phase and realized that that it could happen all over again to us at some point of time did it happen again when you know when we did our nuclear blasts again you know by that time mostly we have been self-sufficient yes there have been restrictions and all that that's what I was telling you that I'm also the program test


was telling you that I'm also the program test and all that and in phases but majority of the technical analogies we could develop ourselves and then the phase of that mission of indigenously developing was continuously going on and then it could get all the systems which are required for us mostly here in the country and Sir uh like uh during that era you had very strong leaders the drdo or the missile teams had very strong leaders like Dr Kalam now did that help because they had the access they had the will and uh uh that did having a strong leader like Dr Kalam help the drdo in achieving um you are very right in that saying that actually see if you look at before 1982 India didn't have one single missile which it has developed on its own and then because of the leadership of Dr Kalam when a country doesn't have one missile you could go to the government and get an approval and a sanction for five missiles at one go that is the integrated guided measures development


one go that is the integrated guided measures development program where uh five missiles which have been taken up and I don't think without that type of a leadership we could have got such a program sanctioned and then a trust is given to this development indigenously that leadership helped and in fact not only missiles the same leadership so we could get the Arjun tank program we could get the light combat aircraft program and that is what is the leadership definitely has helped in getting the necessary trust required for the indigenous development of these systems so the system that you're talking about are systems that we have uh we keep hearing about India facing a two-front war scenario and planning and things that go into it um tell me how how is India placed as far as our integrated missile development program is concerned vis-a-vis China and Pakistan see as I told you the country has developed many missiles which are required by the Armed Forces as a the requirement comes from the Armed Forces all those massage


requirement comes from the Armed Forces all those massage development has been taken up and that's how if you look at it today we have developed feed and we are developed the series of Agni missiles and then other missiles like cruise missiles nirvite and brahmos then we have also developed air to air missile Astra then we have developed the Akash surface to air missile and also we developed a medium range surface to air missile and then anti-tank missiles so many missiles which the armed forces require the country needs looking at the various requirements have been developed and I say that we meet all the requirements of the Armed Forces today based on their Necessities which they need for protecting our borders have been developed and or being developed here in the country so the launch of Agni 5 it caught the imagination of the country how proud should India be of the Agni 5. Agni 5 is one of the long range missiles and the countries is proud as many technologies have gone


the countries is proud as many technologies have gone into it and a very long range very high Precision missile and which has been developed and flight tested which has been very very successful it has many Technologies which have gone into it and so country is naturally very proud of that missile being developed range of the missile now why do we need icbms is a very basic question we don't have if you see our threat perceptions you know uh it's a very basic question which people ask and I don't have an answer so I'm asking you this that we don't have a threat perception from very far away enemies so why do we need an ICBM I don't know whether we should talk about icbms or whatever it is the ranges of the missiles based on the needs looking at all friends um the armed forces have looked at that and then looked for certain ranges and that's how the missiles have been developed looking at those ranges sir like Agni five the first test was about three four years


Agni five the first test was about three four years back it was very successful we have been carrying out modifications and developments in the this program now we also hear that the range is much more than what is acknowledged in the public domain uh what is the need for uh developing further developing the the missiles and is there a point where we are thinking of a longer range Agni 6 or say Agni 5 plus kind of a missiles see basically agnify has been developed as one of the long-range missiles what the country has been looking for and in the beginning it has been tested very successfully in our net I don't think any major changes have gone through or anything in the system one system is very robust system some here and there based on the Technologies which come up here and there and some upgradations go on in any any system some similar things would have gone into the system otherwise the system is developed and it's a robust system and very successful program what magnify is and we


and very successful program what magnify is and we don't need to develop a longer range six so that I wouldn't be able to answer as the requirements and the operations requirement whatever comes up and that is what drdo takes up as such the programs there was this one incident that happened in 2021 of this brahmos missile Landing up in Pakistan it was an accident and after that Pakistan has gone to town that we don't have systems in place how did that accident happen our safeguards in place to see that these kind of accidents don't happen and uh how do you explain to the world or how how is India to explain to the world that it was we do have a robust system in place uh I think the Air Force has looked into that matter and they have gone into details of the thing what has happened and all that and based on the analysis and the report what has come through I think I'm not very deep into it or I have not gone into the details of


it or I have not gone into the details of it but Air Force has put in all the measures to see that such incidents won't occur again right we were talking about long-range missiles what about the the short range ones you know the the Drone ones the Nano missiles are we developing that and also what is the threat from those as far as our enemies are concerned firstly there are lots of slaughtering missiles which have been developed in the country like uh if you look at anti-tank missiles which are just very short range as just few kilometers similarly if you look at surface tear missiles you have varieties of missiles which range from short to medium range sort of even whether it's Akash or you talk about Mr Sam or something like that and all that and there have been many drones Technologies also which have been developed in the country India is one of the first few countries in the world which has developed a anti-drone technology in the country which has been put in use in multiple