with India as we have with very few countries in the world I believe again we don't see it against anyone when we work together on counter-terrorism or collecting information it's mainly for prevention of hostility towards us you and us Israel we are not doing it against anyone we are doing it in order to defend ourselves so anyone who's seeing that is hostility the problem is with him not with us right we have to be I think that if there is a lesson learned from Ukraine the whole Ukraine crisis is that when you're in trouble you better be self-sufficient and ready to fight for your own independence otherwise no one will fight for you so you know the lesson is be prepared be ready be tough project power in the sense that if you project power the sense the the chance that you will be attacked will be lower you know if you are perceived this weak the chances are higher this is in the Middle East at least for us the projection of power is very very important and to


the projection of power is very very important and to send a message that of the Terence of telling others don't mess with us it will be costly for you uh this is we're talking about a tough stance but I I am seeing a more flexible Israel today uh you know I mean your Abraham Accords like I think two years since uh that and uh your Outreach to the Middle East to the gulf Nations it's something that uh it's not contrary but I there's a flexibility to your foreign policy that one is it's complementary I would say on the one hand our enemies have to know that we are standing strong and Tall uh we will not tolerate we will preempt we will take whatever action is needed to protect our people and to prevent them from building capabilities to harm us in the future on the other hand as I said in in the beginning we are always with open arms to anyone who wants to come in peace and have negotiations with us and I must say that the


negotiations with us and I must say that the gulf countries have been having different kind of relations with Israel over the years but they were quite relations when they needed the defense assistance cooperation Technologies capacities and they also came to Israel but they did it quietly I believe that in all the Middle East one of the reasons that countries are more open to coming or publicly coming getting close to Israel is the fear of Iran this is a element that is uniting because you know you look at Iran and I know that India and Israel see things differently I'm not sure that India's interpretation of Iran's behavior is different than Israel the interests are different and the behavior of Iran or the joint interest towards Afghanistan or having ports together or trade or energy are are different but when you look at the Middle East most of us in the Middle East in the as you call it West Asia we see Iran is a destabilizing force we see them involved in Iraq in Syria in Lebanon with his but


in Iraq in Syria in Lebanon with his but through Hezbollah with the Palestinian organizations in Yemen with the houthis in Bahrain they tried and through the khutis they are disabled or trying to destabilize both Saudi Arabia and UAE by shooting at them so when you look at our region you see Iran is a big destabilizer and Israel is perceived as probably as the country which is the most proactive to prevent Iran from this kind of action and I think that this is one of the reasons that these countries want to be close to Israel there is a feeling I think in the sense in the world that we are living in a little bit of a mess there is no boss in the world there is no one or two powers that are running the world anymore it's a more messy world I think Isis the whole Affair and everything was all also the American withdrawal from the Middle East the Russians with Ukraine so everyone is busy with its own things and I think the the realization that


its own things and I think the the realization that these geographical boundaries is or even ideological boundaries are very fluid when it comes to terrorism it can affect anybody so just because you're a Muslim country doesn't mean that terrorism is not going to come your way it can come I think then uh there's there's this Awakening that they have to collaborate with other countries to protect their own uh you were mentioning Iran how do you see this new uh Street protests which are happening with regard to hijab I've seen very guarded uh statements coming from Israel saying that they support uh the the street movements but it's it's still do you think at a nascent stage the early stages I you know it's very hard to predict revolutions we know that the Iranian regime is very strong we know that there is a lot of opposition to the religious direction that it's taking the state and the religious laws hijab wearing being one of them that they don't like it and others we know all of


they don't like it and others we know all of that but still we cannot predict when there will be a flipping moment where there will be a revolution for the time being it seems that the regime is very very strong it controls also a lot of the economy and this is one of our fears from the Iran deal the jcpoa is that beyond the fact that we feel that it will not give enough assurances on nuclear and other elements of destabilization support of terrorism missiles and many others it will give a huge influx of money to Iran so they will get two to three hundred billion dollars immediately release of frozen assets Etc and this and they will start selling oil in huge quantities and this for us if we would think that this money would go to help the population we would be the happiest people but we believe that it will go help spread the the gospel this unfortunate Gospel of Shiite rule or dominance in the Middle East and this is our fear you know I


Middle East and this is our fear you know I I must remind everyone that during the days of the Shah Israel we had diplomatic relations we had ambassadors we had very good relations we had joint we built the pipelines it was a different country and a different reality for us true true what about turkey I mean you've uh on the sidelines of the unga now suddenly uh you know your heads of government have met turkey and your head so do you see a change a shift even in Turkey happening they made a statement on Kashmir of course they do that that every unga but it's a it's a little bit of a muted statement and I believe Pakistan is not too happy uh that you know erdogan didn't flash cards with Kashmir atrocities if I may put in quotes happening so how is it how do you see do you see turkey trying to recalibrate now its relationship with your country I think that uh turkey during the time of erdogan before erdogan we used to have very


of erdogan before erdogan we used to have very close relations very stable relations the Defense Forces on both sides were a strong element of these relations since erdogan has come our relations new ups and downs all the time and now I'm very happy that we have an up rather than a Down bottom line is if you look at the Middle East there are three non-arab states in the Middle East these are Israel turkey and Iran and both turkey and Iran of course are Muslim Israelis Jewish but three of us are known Arab potentially we should have been very close allies in the sense of being together and being different in the region but we are not because of political reasons erdogan I think has quite uh he himself has quite a complicated situation economic situation of turkey is not the brightest and I I think he is trying to recalibrate but not only with Israel in general is all the time trying to shift and see he's very flexible in foreign policy in the sense of looking for opportunities and


policy in the sense of looking for opportunities and and situations uh he can he can turkey can make a lot of money out of connection with Israel also on gas there is a lot of gas in the Middle East but they also have to settle with Greece and Cyprus because they have their own issues with them so energy will probably be The Peacemaker between I don't know you know that even at the worst of times most of our oil comes from azerbijan from the Baku Jihan through turkey to the Mediterranean there is a pipeline so even at worst of times it's never stopped by the way even at the worst of times Turkish Airlines who are making a lot of flights to Israel they do connections Freight they do everything they continued so the Practical side is going on the Econo economy is going on the problem was always the political which the ups and down mainly in the political and the defense that we in the in the past we used to be very intimate in defense cooperation


we used to be very intimate in defense cooperation and today unfortunately um we are not at the same status it's not like India or anything of the kind so you know it's a pragmatic foreign policy of trying to use opportunities I think of everyone the thing is that you know India the reason India would be so interested is because we've got millions of expat Indians working in the Middle East in all these West Asian countries so uh if if Israel improves its relationship and plays a larger role in uh West Asia whether it be in civilian matters or whether it be in political matters it you know everything improves the connectivity improves more Indian students can you know travel work so all this uh helps India so I don't you think that um it's something that benefits both countries Beyond than just the West Asian realm yes I will take it with your permission a little back I spoke of the hyphenation this policy of Prime Minister Modi of saying you know the Palestinian issues the Palestinian


of saying you know the Palestinian issues the Palestinian issue Israelis Israel we deal with both of them in parallel we don't not want to count on the other I think this is the basis that later on is in the thinking also of UAE Bahrain and then Morocco joining the Abram Accords that they said look the Palestinian issue is there we invested in the Palestinians a lot of capital both money and political capital and every investment and everything and nothing is moving there is also a problem of the I think of the Palestinian leadership and the feeling that there is no State Building so a lot is poured in but it's not taken in it's taken into daily consumption rather than State Building uh so this was the foundation I think this this this thought of the Abraham Accords and the Abraham Accords are the foundations for the I2 U2 and I think this is very important to say because I to YouTube which is Israel India Israel us and UAE the four of us which will work together as a


the four of us which will work together as a group of four to do infrastructure projects we already announced they were the establishing of the first meeting was when uh external affairs minister Jason Kyle visited Israel last October I was with him then in the visit and there was a foreign minister meeting and now when Biden President Biden visited Israel they did an online with Prime Minister Modi also joining of the leaders Summit and they agreed and they announced two projects in India both to be implemented in India one foot Farm Very Advanced Israeli technology uae-led and the second one energy Farms clean energy Farms wind and solar led by Americans also we will join with technology and everything and uh India I think it's the triangle that you can see in the Middle East is UAE I think in also in size in magnitude of economy size of course India is vast in size but the economy and the fact that there's so many influential Indians working in the gulf and especially in UAE in the economy of


gulf and especially in UAE in the economy of uuee it's a bridge and we will be able to work we are working together already is essentially going to be economic partnership uh it doesn't have an a security element to it or is there not no security element not not yet I don't think that it should have security element because if we start speaking of security each one has its own concerns as I said for example India and Israel don't agree on Iran and I guess that also the Americans don't agree with India on Iran and so if we're keeping that out if we will put in Iran you will put in your concerns and each one will put in it will be blocked and our idea is to be very pragmatic very economic not against anyone 1.4 for our people for our countries at the end of the day and for Humanity because we if we do green technology we are not only helping you Humanity but I believe that there will be also technology which will be relevant for Humanity


will be also technology which will be relevant for Humanity coming out of this cooperation because the capability is putting together the capabilities of our four countries yeah both human resources and and money can bring I think the world a good message I am going to come on Green Technology and agriculture Ambassador but before I do that of course it will be remiss if it if I don't speak about the whole Pegasus issue uh India exactly I thought as much that you're going to say that I don't know anything this is exactly the reaction we get from Indian government uh uh you know anybody we speak in the government so both you and India says we don't know anything about it but media reports suggest that India did buy spy technology and so did other countries by technology uh from Israel and the end users in some countries it's used to spy on on the opposition on media uh on people against the establishment so even if you don't want to talk about Pegasus if you can just tell us how do you see whether


you can just tell us how do you see whether end use is done or not NS also says I want to speak I I was joking that I was saying about Pegasus no I I want to speak about because I think it's important uh NSO the company which is not the only one in the world that has softwares of this kind right developed this software in order to combat terrorism and organize crime that is the aim in general it's a private company it's not owned by Israel but we applied on them export controls like in weapons so we see the potential in this system so they have to apply through us and we as a government we limit their ability to export first of all only to governments and also only to certain governments that we deem as responsible enough for using it uh this is more or less the situation whether people are taking this and using it in other ways I'm not aware of it I'm really not aware of it but the idea for us it you know we need


but the idea for us it you know we need to be step ahead of the terrorists at the end of the day they have the abilities to to eavesdrop on us in different ways and penetrate in Cyber Wars on us and everything we have to be a step ahead of them we have to be able to foil their attempts to attack and disrupt our lives and I think this is very crucial it should be used as it should be used but it's an important system and again it's a private company not Israel a private Israeli company but we put the maximum export control we can on this system when you talk about Terror networks you know if I can take you back it was in the 2008 Mumbai Terror attacks that most people in India woke up to the fact that India has been a Lagarde India has held back on taking a stringent and proactive measures to crush Terror networks we have been more India had been more reactive to uh you know to anti-terror operations till then it's


you know to anti-terror operations till then it's then that India woke up and many at that stage said why don't we cooperate with Mossad and I as you would be aware wherever you go I'm sure you get asked about your spy Network and your anti-terror operations and how it's it's legendary in India if I may say and there are many who are afraid of it who are scared of the mosad and say that oh that's not what we need in our country but there are others who hero worship you know people who read spy novels who watch Netflix serials um what do you have to say about how India has dealt with terror since 2008. I I don't want to say about India but I can say that our cooperation India and Israel Corporation counterterrorism as I said before is very wide very developed from intelligence gathering to Special Forces to reaction forces to everything we are working quite intimately together and I believe that what happened then probably will be more complicated to execute


happened then probably will be more complicated to execute today in the same manner and that attack will hopefully next time God forbid things like that happen the ability of Turk of of India to to foil or to will be better I hope so I believe so and I hope so you think systems in uh I mean your reading or Israel's reading of how India has learned from 2008 that systems are better in place now in India is that how you view it yes I believe I believe that there it's much more advanced systems the abilities the capabilities the responsibilities the reaction forces I think that everyone learns from the past the problem we have is Israel we always complain about ourselves that we are always prepared for the previous war 4 and the next four is always different so I mean you live in a state of constant conflict if I may say I mean I empathize with you and when I went to Israel I saw for myself uh I'm one of that generation who in our passports and that stamp which


that generation who in our passports and that stamp which said not valid for Israel it's it's you know uh in my first passage okay so I had that on my passport and when I got the Visa uh I remember very hesitatingly uh uh the Visa officer said that if you want you can take a paper Visa don't get it stamped because you may not be able to travel to the countries that you have traveled to uh if you have it stamped on your passport and I've I found that such a difficult existence to be apologetic of stamping you know most countries are arrogant about stamping uh on the on the on the passport and uh she said this to me and I said well if if a country will not give me a Visa sir because I have your country's Visa then I will not visit that country I'm fine with it so we were a delegation which went and some people uh took a a paper a paper visa and when we were done with that when we had visited


when we were done with that when we had visited your country we saw everything they said we made a mistake those two people or two or three who were there said we should have also stamped our passports we are proud uh you know we understand what the sentiment so while I got where you know you uh came from and it was a it was a very moving movement a moment at that time but uh sir I also realized that it is such a difficult period uh that you've gone through you've lived that through that period too does it does it move you to what you are today where you get accepted so willingly everywhere in the world yeah I think it starts earlier it starts my father was born in Germany my mother was born in England my father is a holocaust Survivor so my grandfather didn't survive many of the family didn't survive and my father came to Israel in 1949 just after the establishment of Israel he was 14 years old he fought until 1982 all the words


years old he fought until 1982 all the words of Israel and we grew up in a house where Three Brothers we grew up in a very Zionist house so my father came from a very Orthodox background but he left the Orthodox background and became a darling he retreated one thing for another I think and uh I grew up in this reality I mean it was clear to me that the duty is to go and serve in the military it's compulsory it's a conscription in Israel but it's people don't see it as usually they see it as a challenge it's a good thing not as a bad thing to go to the movie because we understand the need and the logic behind it it's not that it's a military that is sent to Fight 2 000 miles away for other people's worries our war and our ability to and I think that I grew up very clearly I was a parent I was officer in the paratroopers I did four years of military service my I have


I did four years of military service my I have four children one the youngest is now going into military service but the oldest two sons are officers they did very long service so they stayed beyond the compulsory time my daughter my third daughter did the same so she stayed more time and for us it's not a hard reality we grew up we grew up in this circumstances where other people come from outside and say how do you live in them no that's our reality it's not going to be a tougher than we are used to it we we are tough we are tough because if you grow in this circumstances that um that threat is imminent it's behind Any Corner in general we don't live in fear if you if you go to uh there are international research about happiness of peoples the Israelis are always in the 10 10 10 most happiest people in the world right but it's this you know the never forget movement like I understand that you know it uh it's


like I understand that you know it uh it's an experience that you live every day the Holocaust might be something of the past but you cannot because there are countries which don't don't accept that you exist so I understand where you come from but uh is there no closure is there no hope or you don't don't think that that's accused you know the the issue is that for Indians it's very hard to grasp anti-Semitism anti-Semitism doesn't exist in India never never existed but in Europe the Jews not only in the Holocaust third of the Six Million third of the Jewish people of the world were murdered but the Jews were persecuted over all over the years in all the countries by the Spanish Inquisition in Portuguese and in Russia programs and in every place the Jews were persecuted it was also a religious element and because Jews were always different were like a closed group of people dressed differently they were mostly Orthodox then and so you know there is something very psychologically problematic with the


know there is something very psychologically problematic with the attitude towards Jews in the world and I think that also towards the state of Israel as a Jewish state so it's over criticized it's like the standard set for Israel is a different standard to any other country in the world but we are we are okay with it because we are for the first time are independent we are able to protect ourselves and this is for us the the main the main element it's we understand that the alternative is worse because the history tells us that the alternative is worse so we are also very pragmatic we are seven million Jews today and we were 600 000 in 48 when the state was established and we are very pragmatic about the passport and the stamping on the Visa we understand that the Alternatives that people will not come because they will be afraid they will not be able to go to Muslim countries afterwards you were Brave you were not a maybe not a typical example and to date the situation


not a typical example and to date the situation is different and you see that Israel is one of the most successful economically most successful countries in the world the lead the world leader in Innovation but also by the way all of that is because we were sharper than most others because we had to be sharp we couldn't become lazy or you know we have to work hard because if seven million Jews with hundreds today we have Peace Accords with Egypt with Jordan uh it's not I mean the immediate neighbors I'm speaking especially also of course the others the second and we were surrounded by tens and hundreds of thousands with bigger armies and bigger abilities and and oil and energy and and numbers in the U.N you didn't have the resources either I've seen uh how with meager resources you've done I mean the I went to a water salination point and it was amazing and now you're you're taking it a step forward I believe the salinated water is going to be put into the Sea of


water is going to be put into the Sea of Galilee you you could could you explain about how this water Revolution because that could be a solution to India's water wars I will also take a little bit to step back you know when we started we we have been an agriculture country manufacturing country like India so our biggest known export was Jaffa Oranges we had the Citrus that we used to export and in certain stage we stopped exporting it not because we didn't need the money God forbid we all we needed the money Israel was a very poor country to start with but when we we were absorbing a lot of immigrants so money was needed but we understood that we are exporting our assets our assets our water we don't have enough water the difference between our country and many other countries in the world that we have a we pay a high price for the water water is not free and it's quite expensive so we understand that there is value for water places where you don't pay for


is value for water places where you don't pay for water you don't understand the value and you would not invest in infrastructure in order to make it better so it's also a cultural thing uh I've I've noticed many people uh in India you know farmers who think that since they own this land uh getting water from as low as you can get you can keep it's yours so the air the water and the the soil should not be taxed should not be challenged because it's yours so we we do tax and we do Challenge and that makes us more efficient because we understand that it's okay it's costly how do we save money it started with drippery education in the 50s when we were in agriculture so we invented the drip irrigation which saved a lot of water and also helped the plants because the plants didn't get too much water and not too too less so they got the exact amount but then we started doing reuse of water we reuse our water almost 90 percent of our


water we reuse our water almost 90 percent of our water are we used for agricultural level so we don't bring it back to drinking level because it's not economically wise we bring it up to the level of Agriculture the next country after us I think is like Spain in 20 something under 30 so we are at 90 almost 90 and the other country after us is in 30. so we reuse a lot of the water because it's a very economic way to save water and we do desalinization which is not an Israeli invented technology but it was industrialized or put into big magnitude in Israel and we have also next to Chennai the biggest the salinization Factory in India also by an Israeli company and today the idea of water is not anymore when we did the Oslo Accords in the early 90s one of the elements that we had to discuss in the final status agreement was the water issue because there is scarcity how do we divide the water today there is no scarcity so we don't


water today there is no scarcity so we don't have more rain but we have more more desalinization more reuse of water more smart agriculture Middle East countries asking for this technology from you because they are facing a crisis too of course we are we are first of all we are giving more water to Jordan we in the Peace Accords with Jordan we committed ourselves to a certain amount we are giving them more because we have from the salinization we do want to retrieve water into the into the Sea of Galilee to the kinet we do we did even before we had relations more so now with the gulf countries that we help the salinity they are the salinization in factories that were based on Israeli technology the company at the time was not Israeli per se but the owners so we found ways of how to to do business also when we didn't have full diplomatic relations and we're also doing in India by the way because the only place in the world where we have a water attache is in


the world where we have a water attache is in Delhi in our embassy it's based on the agreement between the two prime ministers and the bunnel can the new P we are doing a holistic planning of a region in bulldogan and Israeli companies doing it meaning what are the resources how we utilize them to the maximum what kind of Agriculture would go with it etc etc harvesting of water whatever is the play in every place you have your ups and downs what are the advantages and disadvantages so we are doing it and we are planning there we are is there any company Israeli companies are working and again not in the work itself we do the planning and the technology that can be utilized but usually the real work is done by Indian companies because there is no Advantage for Israeli government you know your country is it it's so versatile in in startups which are there you know uh how do you see the startup environment in India uh do they do they interact with Israeli companies and do you


they do they interact with Israeli companies and do you see more prospects for them first of all I think that we have to commend India for a huge huge uh step forward I think in the startup and Innovation field you have about 80 unicorns I believe or more by now very similar to our numbers by the way um and I think the cooperation has to be much better okay we part of the problem that we have is awareness in Israel because we started our startup looking westwards so a lot of the money coming in initially to our startups came from the US from funds in the us and our exits went through the us because the same people want you to to do the the IPO the exit in the same country where they reside and so that was our orientation I think that the orientation of the whole economy of the world is going towards Asia South Asia and Israeli startups are understanding that by the way it's not easy for them because they don't have resources in India you have to be more


don't have resources in India you have to be more patient it takes more time it's it's a it's a fact of life takes more time to do it I'm now going to move a little bit to the popular culture you know father is a huge huge success and it has a huge fan following in fact one of our uh one of my colleagues is such a fan of for that that's all he can talk about every time so uh tell me when you go to uh different parts of India do people ask you at all about whether what one hears about the security forces in Israel is true or is it overdone very popular here I hear it every place everywhere everyone speaks to me about it we even brought one of the actors they complained that it's not that the main character it's not doron who is the main character in the film but who played now you know people get their own haircuts right I mean no no haircut so it's not yeah people are really touched and now I understand that


people are really touched and now I understand that there is an Indian version of uh done I think around Kashmir or something there is a they're coming out with the Indian version of uh of and what about the whole the mythical image about or is it true all that they portray I I think that it's uh it's true we have these kind of units I I'm not sure that everything you see there being an officer in the paratroop is the idea of sending three people in a van into a hostile area probably they will be backing so they will do stuff like that but you will try to do it with ability of backing not to you know man human life for us of our soldiers since we are inscription country and everyone is connected and involved and you know it's a it's the people's military every loss of life is a huge issue in Israel so sending people into in such a trap it happens in very in in various there was a very heroic in Gaza five six people


was a very heroic in Gaza five six people that they had a shootout one died but they were able to get away but they were arabic speaking inside the Hostile area it's a very known thing of three four years ago but it happened a lot of things yeah yeah and your um in fact there are many who have drawn parallels between you know the new agneepath scheme that India has you know you must have heard about that and the parallels with the uh with your Defense Forces and uh do you see uh you know India benefiting from this agneepath scheme and do you see parallels with uh with what is happening you know what you have in Israel I can say that beyond the defense side of having conscription in general people going in big numbers into military service there are so many social values into it that I think India can also enjoy the same values and it starts with the fact that people feel connected to their country it's you know it's a paraphrase of what John John


you know it's a paraphrase of what John John F Kennedy said what can you do for you what you can do for you once you do for your country you feel that you're entitled also so the connection is on a different level but also high-tech the development of high-tech the ability because we are a high-tech military we take all the brightest at 18 year olds and we put them together the brightest of Mind brains we have in Israel to to work for the military for three years and do their work there and when they come out they they bond so well that many of them have yeah many of them have started startups together I believe this is the ecosystem of startups is very much connected but also as an immigrant Society or or very um you know also for India it's a Melting Pot system because everyone comes into the military they meet each other they meet so it here it would be I mean you you're going regionally but for Israel it's a very small country but very


but for Israel it's a very small country but very diverse so people from Moroccan origin or Orthodox and and the non-orthodox Ashkenazi from a big city they met meat for the first time and they speak they become friends they become you know in Brotherhood of military something amazing so it's a really Melting Pot element people get to know their country feel connected to the country high technology so there are many many I think advantages beyond the defense pure defense side so you know um your Twitter handle is extremely popular and you have traveled so much in India so tell me what are your impressions about you know the soft part the soft uh part of India is in the culture and the Traditions uh what you have seen yeah I'm now concluding a year in India and it was a laughing First Sight because when I landed here it was the first time my ever first time in India in South Asia and I've been to Australia in the past in business but really the first time I came


past in business but really the first time I came here and as I said the popular support popular love to Israel once you are you know Indians and Israelis are very similar in many ways I think that in the sense of to the family values of family in the center of life is a very strong element in both our countries and food is always connected so every family gathering is also a lot of food is is is connected to that and I think it's a love in First Sight we are really enjoying it me my family uh Twitter well I came here with 1500 I'm getting closer to thirty thousand okay and it's it's a short it's you know it's it's far from sufficient because it's you know it's if I would be now in a European country I would have thirty thousand I would be the king of the place but here in India the the you know the the market share the size the magnetism is so vast that I feel too small and too slow but we are trying to


too small and too slow but we are trying to do our best we are trying to communicate I think that today New Media are extremely important the the in India still the old media is is relevant in most countries it's not relevant anymore the written press the the printed press I think India is very rare in the sense yeah all media is thriving yes there are uh there is uh you know kind of an onslaught of social media but then traditional media has a niche I think it's just our numbers your numbers and maybe also culturally you are more conservative on on the press the way people many people see that but you know there are the good sides and the bad sides of the mode the good side of the fact is the fact that I don't need any more and here it's not a problem everyone is happy in the press to speak to me but in Europe it was more complicated and I don't need to press the traditional pressed in Europe anymore in order to tell the public what I


anymore in order to tell the public what I think okay which is a great the bad thing is that it's not only about me it's everyone is the same so we our our social media has become a market you know we are in a way I'm I probably it's my old age that uh people can connect to you easily right that's the best part of diplomacy yeah you don't need an intermediary anymore you go directly people can write to you and say yeah but you know I hope not all 1.4 almost 4 billion Indians connecting one time it will collapse for my language uh does it uh is it impeding when you travel in India no I I think that the people I meet most of them speak English it's very rare that I I need to be translation to be translated but you know the downside I think of modern media is really the fact that we started democracy started in Greece in the center in the Square Center Square of city and people would come the privileged people by


of city and people would come the privileged people by the way would come and Shout to decide on the decisions they would make the decisions for everyone and then we have we developed into a representation on more stable democracy everyone votes not only privilege but the city corner is still there every four years and we are back to the city corner and we are so big in the world today and coming back to the city corner it's a problem yes it's noisy but that's what India is all about isn't it it's not only about India but it's the whole world is like that yes and that's how populism comes I think of politicians how can they take long-term decisions when they will be criticized but instantly instantly on every decision they make a good decision I want to make tomorrow a highway from here to there so the greens will come the owners of the land would come against me the you know each one but have you noticed there's absolutely no criticism system of anything that Israel does on


no criticism system of anything that Israel does on the social media in the Indian sphere barely anything yeah I I we are privileged I'm not saying that it's it's a natural uh thing uh you know I mean I I at least don't see anything at all whatever steps you take uh it's never you know a seen from an anti-israel point of view at all I don't think you find that kind even in Israel in the social media I think that we're blessed and I said that I feel at home I felt at home from the first moment we are blessed because the popular supposed is there the political support or cooperation and friendship is there I went with Jason Carl to Israel to visit one of the best and I've been advised to three prime ministers Chief of Staff of the foreign minister I've done a lot of these official visits I think the visit of Jay Shankar was one of the best ones the intimacy the Open Talk the relations the gestures that were done the person the private


relations the gestures that were done the person the private gestures of leader to another I think these elements are like which you mentioned right at the beginning of this talk about the trickle-down effect that it comes from the top and and then when you know that the People to People connect is also working perfectly do you see more scope for tourism between India and Israel you know India is very attractive for Israelis generations of Israelis young young Israelis have this habit of going either to uh South America out to India is muchelleros or Backpackers here and they like to you know to have a year living in simple life of Backpacker in order to relax after military service and and regain their their fun and everything so tourism Israelis come here and now there are generations of people if you go to you went to Israel I don't know if you met people who when they were younger or young people have all done that done that yeah they know about they know about parts of India more than probably Indians yes


know about parts of India more than probably Indians yes and I hadn't been to those parts when they were asking so there is the the Israeli trail with the homeless trailers they called them yeah that they go there in big numbers I think that potential is huge hopefully we are going to have direct more direct flights because in Saudi Arabia now is allowing hopefully El Al to fly and then Air India will have more flights Halal we'll have more flights there will be quite many flights and I'm sure that many many Indians here on meet have the desire to go to Israel and in conclusion uh so you began by speaking about you know the trickle-down effect and about how heads of state and heads of government when they interact uh it sends down a message how important uh is is it for uh for our head of government and your head of government to meet and uh send these signals on a regular basis I think it's crucial I'm it's very unfortunate by the way that we have political


very unfortunate by the way that we have political instability in the sense that we don't have the same prime minister we're attending all the time it's very very important the relations because things are decided there and also the spirit of friendship that is coming and decision making from the leadership percolating down into the system it's very very important our aim is to have and we we had already four times the prime minister's visit postponed in the beginning it was over elections and the problems last time because of kovit because the prime performance prime minister Bennett contracted it's very important because there is very close friendship prime minister Bennett met prime minister the Modi in Glasgow and and I believe that it's important because it's it's the closing as I said in the beginning closing the circle it the people have already the sympathy as you mentioned also towards Israel and now the leadership shows that it has the same interest and when everything coincides together it's a perfect match so I we


together it's a perfect match so I we we are trying to push for more and more high-level visits we had our Minister of Defense here uh your ministers went to Israel and prime minister visit we are looking presidential visit we are looking so we are working on all of that look forward to more interactions sir in the future thank you very much for speaking with us thank you thank you very much for having me thank you for watching and listening to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash please like And subscribe in whichever platform you watched or listened to it namaste foreign [Music]


aftab's family knew that there was violence going on maybe even drug smuggling maybe even drug intake maybe even womenizing wait maybe it's coming emerging what kind of man did they produce what is the responsibility of the parents of the boy I think tremendously negligent we are always talking about the grooming of the girls what about the Brewing of the boys why can't they be broomed if they misbehave like that when they grow there's a predictive relationship between alcoholism drug abuse and domestic violence we could have remained a Vigilant a fourth pillar of the government had we not gone political we could have remained that's how we were invisaging okay that would remain an independent non-political Force which would speak up of corruption anywhere say if I have a chief minister yes I would have stopped first of all that smoking coming from Punjab I find the current prime minister highly result oriented truly karamyoge if every bureaucrat whatever the responsibility is walking the streets


bureaucrat whatever the responsibility is walking the streets smelling feeling hearing seeing correcting Hands-On even for hour a day India would be different in next four or five years Namaste Jain welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash he strangled her to death and then chopped her body into several parts he stuffed those body parts inside a refrigerator he put her head into the freezer compartment and then one by one he started disposing of those dozens of body parts in the jungle when the body parts started smelling he would lighten agarbatti he brought other women friends into the house for months no one figured out till a friend got suspicious aftab is in custody shaddha's family and friends have to come to term with the fact that all her body parts may never be found there is no closure for families who have lost a loved one in such a horrific manner Indians are transfixed about the horror story of aftab punawala and shraddha Walker soon after


aftab punawala and shraddha Walker soon after the shraddha Walker episode three other such brutal copycat murders came to light in all the cases the Killer and the victim knew each other they are labeled as Crimes of Passion why is it that some murders gruesome murders just shake us to the very core why is it that most of us ask the same question why did she not walk away what drives a man to become a beast and not give out any signs of abnormality you would think that the police or reporters are accustomed to seeing such crimes of passion and it would not impact on us at least in not impact on us in an emotional manner but it does so I spoke with a police officer who knows Delhi like the back of her hand she was the first woman officer of the Indian Police Service Kiran bedi has worked tirelessly to reduce crime against women ma'am thank you very much for coming to the studio most of us are very very


coming to the studio most of us are very very disturbed even though uh you know as reporters and you as a police person would have seen so much of crime but there are some crimes which just we can't understand why some crimes are you know like people say why is it this crime more important and this aftab guys crime is one of that can you please explain to me that how did this happen how can a man chop a woman into pieces and then start disposing of those body pieces that why has this happened neighbors don't know there is no Trail for months on end how did this happen in 2022 look it's becoming evident that she was looking for help she was looking for help and the latest news is that she was dissuaded from pursuing the matter by the Man's family so where's France family we're not even talking about the Man's family she it hasn't revealed yet that she was coming back to her main family mother and father but it's also revealing that


family mother and father but it's also revealing that the mother has actually died out of that kind of yeah the trauma the trauma she's passed away something she passed away probably she didn't have much of a communication relationship with the father we don't know but another news research emerging is that the Father the aftabs family knew that there was violence going on maybe even drug smuggling maybe even drug intake maybe even weaponizing wait maybe it's coming emerging that aftab's family knew where is this family we're talking about the woman's family so I'm little wondering huh why haven't we connected yet with the this Man's family why because this man is a product of his family yeah just as this girl is a rebel in her own family the boy is a product of his family he's not a rebel he's not walked away I believe they went and stayed back also he's been connected and he's also made some things shifted something went wrong that the family shifted house why so I think that


that the family shifted house why so I think that stage is yet to come so it's not just a crime of passion which he's claiming now okay you know In the Heat of the Moment he killed her it's not a heat of the Moon certainly not it's developed over a period because it's clearly that she's been asking for help she's gone to the doctor she's gone to the dentist she's gone to a counselor she's gone even to a female counselor and the female counselor was told no the family is not helping families not encouraging pursuing the matter but Mom it's a very common thing you've dealt when you were in uh I think Westdale Western uh Delhi or something you were uh policing at that time you also dealt with so many crimes like this against women you brought down the graph when you were in the police uh crimes against women came down you must have seen so many sachins there maybe not as Macabre as this but brutal


maybe not as Macabre as this but brutal incidents you must have seen right look these are um cases if a woman has it's come to your notice you can do this crocin what you can do means minor medicine ah okay you can prevent it if you catch it early in this case she could have been caught early how how you know when I was growing up in service domestic violence act wasn't there correct United Nations came with this domestic violence act Etc it is I think right later but the time early there was no domestic violence is a crime yeah that's why you never had these crimes against women's cells they all came after the un uh convention yeah so therefore uh that time when police were sending these women away sending these women this is how women were being sent away in the earlier years before the domestic violence came up I'll tell you how I dealt with it now that is the woman in me or empathy me or compassion in me it can be a part


me or compassion in me it can be a part of the man's nature too I used to use preventive sections of law which I said very minor medicine preventive sections of law could have been used even here just use these preventive sections of law even that was called crpc prevention of breach of priests okay apprehension of breach of Peace this can be always used and this is a British made law crpc criminal procedure code British made law apprehensive breach of Peace section 107 151 you can even arrest the person but you can it's it's not a criminal proceeding it's a peace proceeding where you had listened to both the parties and bind them down to for good behavior but that's if the girl comes to the police she only went to the doctor to the dentist why didn't like isn't the doctor supposed to see domestic violence that it seems like domestic violence and reported to the police is there nothing like that Smita should have been done such things so we suspect because


should have been done such things so we suspect because a girl may not speak yeah the doctor could speak the police officer who got the complaint could speak the NGO could speak and they could go back to these preventive sections of law where both the parties would have been summoned and then heard and then bound down for good behavior now you know violation of that bounding binding down means a six months prison so you don't need a domestic violence act you can use these proceedings both by an SDM of the area or by an assistant commissioner police are there this is what I used to do earlier you'd be surprised my whole PhD thesis became domestic violence and drug abuse when I was doing my PhD I changed my subject because I saw rampant domestic violence and with no Solutions then I I studied and there's a predictive relationship between alcoholism drug abuse and domestic quality it's a predictive relationship in any family where you have alcoholism or drug intake


any family where you have alcoholism or drug intake very few go to sleep after this very few just go to sleep majority indulges in violence majority in the very few that's what proven research is showing so that means majority of the women are silently being abused and they are tolerating it in all odds of the night ma'am in this case the man is a very intelligent killer so if you were saying that in the possibility that that he has done some kind of drug abuse or alcohol abuse and it would have shown up in his blood yes right now he is so he's so intelligent that he has managed to dispose of this body's dozens of part of the bodies he is without anybody getting to know what 2 am Jana and you know he's done it in such a manner in different different places so he would have known he would have stopped consuming those drugs or whatever so that his blood doesn't show that by now addicts don't okay the habituals then he's


now addicts don't okay the habituals then he's habitual he's almost habitual he was dependent on regular alcoholism the uh womenizing getting more women I think that's also appeared that he probably had other women this is deviant behavior isn't it it's more the Deviant it's still 100 criminally delinquent Behavior okay and she was tolerating this nonsense why a maybe she thought where does she go back to who does she go back to the man had his home she didn't I think that's a key she was a very insecure woman that where is the support system why is it that shraddha felt that once she has rebelled against her parents one she has fought against her parents she can't go back and she can't even convince her friends she can't tell her friends and the friends don't find it in them to do anything so now friends circle not siblings not parents what is this then she went to her friends few friends but they were dissuaded to follow up further so she didn't she had


to follow up further so she didn't she had she tapped her old friends but the friends just said follow up I think there she was not allowing them to move further and now friends also were hesitant that they may not disturb her own personal life so they may intrude into personal life the fault lied only with her she wanted to hang on she wanted to hang on prob I do not know why she was wanting to hang on so I've thought she was an educated woman she had worked also correct she had a job also she gave it up so I think that's a problem with these these kind of young women is what is their priority in life is a priority only to hang on to a male security or to live together yet with some dignity and self-respect that's the question see it's okay perfect everybody looks for a lifelong companion a credible secure but here he she is saddled to an inch a violent man and she's constantly saying but why is she not walking to a


saying but why is she not walking to a police station see now of course we are looking back and looking back you makes you wiser but it was all preventable that's the character of the woman why does she become so weak need that she feels this is the Beyond and the end all of her life being with a man even if an abusive relationship and uh fortunately she doesn't have children I can understand a mother with children so she tolerates mother's many mothers do tolerate many mothers do tolerate for the sake of the future of the child they suffer violence it's a fact but in this case where is it is she just herself and she could go back to work why did she not she did not have anybody friend connecting with I think she was totally into this person's control yeah total control I think that's where she was suffering from I think the upbring the this total deficiency in the way these women grew up in education you only made them literate you only make these


education you only made them literate you only make these women literate yeah they are not educated because education means self-confidence again I'll come back that the parents and uh the society the the siblings the friends none of them give that uh that sense to the woman that you know this is not the be-all and end-all do not tolerate violence do not tolerate violence at the workplace do not tolerate tolerate violence in a relationship do not tolerate violence even of your parents I need to bring the parents bit also because soon after the shraddha case there's been another case where a woman was her body was found in a suitcase where her father shot her dead and her mother wrapped her body and put it in a suitcase and through it why because she had an intercast marriage so here is a case again you've given birth to a child what what pushes parents to do this seriously wrong with parenting in India any woman who succeeded in life go back she'll say my parents every woman's life has gone wrong


say my parents every woman's life has gone wrong she'll say went wrong in grooming she may not say it but went wrong in grooming it's a weak need weak grooming it's a it's a diff confused Mis signaling a woman reliability a girl is a liability even the brother thinks again you're a migrant in fact the biggest migrant population in India is a woman in India she's a migrant why she loses her identity loses her surname if she chooses to not keep it it changes her home well who's a migrant migrant is one who has to leave their own home and goes elsewhere there's a larger definite migrant they migrate here you are told you will migrate yeah so that means so I think this message foreign I remember when I was growing up others were tears and parents your parents I mean I need to bring that in your parents were phenomenal in the education that they gave the strength they gave you and your sister uh to be Achievers she was a


your sister uh to be Achievers she was a phenomenal lady too and uh you did so much in your career because your dad stood by you at every step of the way and you've told me this off camera about how your father played a role in your life and how parents supported you I'm sorry I'm making you emotionally no that's okay uh I owe all my life to them it's both mother and father combined you get 200 if you get 200 from them you add your hundred percent you're a 300 percenter here we are not girls and not even 100 percenters they're probably 70 60. imagine any one of us you and I like we are 300 percenters you were uh speaking to palki the other day I love that interview that woman is also 300 percenter those women who made a top in their lives and become now inspiration to others are 300 percenters and 200 percent of mummy dad and hundred percent they themselves they it's not the hundred percent is coming from society it's


not the hundred percent is coming from society it's from them how they dealt with society around them even when Society tried to pull them down question them saying and be envious of them they stood there hundred percent because they got 200 from their parents yeah so um what would you advise uh what would you advise Neighbors this you know that is also very important when nobody bothered to check I I asked uh people around and they say but you know I need to I need to dispel this rumor where people say Flats no that's not true it's not just in in people who live in Flats it's people who living in big houses too ma'am I'll give you a example myself which I I experienced for myself many years ago I got a call from the May the you know the the maid of a friend uh who called and said Okay She's cut her wrist uh there was a fight a domestic flight and she has cut her wrist in his blood everywhere so I rushed it


wrist in his blood everywhere so I rushed it was in the middle of the night her husband and she husband had consumed alcohol had a fight and she had cut her wrist so by the time her joint family by the time I reached this sister in law had taken my friend to a doctor so I was like why has she gone so far away because there was a hospital right in front right I'm coming to the point which you had made about you know how you need doctors need to make a point so I said why has she gone so far away which was like you know several kilometers away it gone in the middle of the night to a hospital so I reached the hospital uh the doctor's thing which was a small dingy clinic and these are very well-off people but they have taken their sister-in-law to a dingy clinic and brought home so then I came back this was the time when there were no cell phone so I came back home to see if she had come home and then


home to see if she had come home and then I just looked at her and I said why didn't you go across the road to this Hospital which is right there mulchand why didn't you go there so then the sister-in-law said so then I spoke to her parents I said this is what happened medical legal case these parents do parenting is a I think all of us parents go on trained we all become parents by a trial and error and look at the damage we do I think that's where parents who are far ahead parents of Visionaries parents who um believe in the quality of life believe in self-reliance man or a woman I think groom their boys and girls better I think we've been only talking about the girl what about the boy's family the boy's family what about this man of tabs family what kind of man did they produce did he not show signs of these deviances drugs uh dating Etc and womenizing I'm sure he's doing it during his time while he's there What


doing it during his time while he's there What did the what is the responsibility of the parents of the boy of the boy I think tremendously negligent we are always we are talking about I am so are we many talking about the grooming of the girls what about the Brewing of the boys yeah why can't they be broomed if they misbehave like that when they grow yeah because they're afraid that they might broom them they are afraid of the sons so I think unless we groom they are afraid of their sons they are saying they're afraid of their sons afraid of signs of leaving them leaving them by themselves because dependency Financial dependency emotional dependency so don't say anything against the Sun if the daughter-in-law would be daughter-in-law is being harassed by your son side with your son instead grooming is very bad girls being considered to be not being trained to be weak weak need not courageous and boys irresponsible irresponsible behavior is the grooming of our boys and


behavior is the grooming of our boys and our girls most of the boys who've grown up well and becoming great Partners in life are those who are groomed by parents man what about the neighbors why is it that that whole you know just a bit Constable is that thing there or not in Delhi it's one of the biggest cities you after Mumbai your largest population is uh Delhi Calcutta yeah where is that khabri system of neighborhood there was a very good campaign a while ago Capri his ring a bell there used to be a campaign by some NGO called ring a bell there can be two things ring a bell if you find something screaming out they said somebody said they'll protect your name is not a case registered it's information to the police it is the duty do you know it's a it's an it's a it's a duty by law to be informing the police of a suspected crime it's a duty of a citizen Citizens need to know that it's a


a citizen Citizens need to know that it's a duty to report crime or such incidents of crime to the police in fact you don't perform Duty you can be liable but we don't follow this up so ring a bell ring up 100. maybe when they were fighting they would probably switch on the shower so that you don't know he said loud music one of the interrogations reportedly's loud music yeah it's not loud music you are is it something being deuced yeah so I think ring a bell too much of water usage tendons water ten the landlord verification right ring a bell ring up hundred I think that would make a lot of difference you know uh landlord verification gets me to the point of this Mangalore uh killer you know that that bomber the pressure cooker bomber uh what he did was that he stole aadhar card and he changed the picture that's what the police report says he changed the picture and then he goes to Mysore and he rents a place with the name


Mysore and he rents a place with the name called Prem his name is something else he calls Muhammad something and he changes his name and that poor lady you know single woman or whatever old woman and she gives uh she's a landlord she gives him he stays out there he takes another stolen ID and he gets a SIM card right and he gets a SIM card from Chennai from there he uses that phone he uses this he sends PDF these are all smart alec criminals but it is so easy to forge to fudge identity in this country and there's no way of verifying how many of us keep a household helps that's it none of us go to a police station and say this is the guy will you please verify if his aadhaar is real or not who does that ma'am stop don't stop the watch you may slip on a verification because you've trusted straight away but if you see anything suspicious then call the hundred put the onus on the police for 100 it will take


the onus on the police for 100 it will take give them a lead though it means more more verification work more work for the police but it also means prevention for the policeman later on Investigation work look at the cost of Investigation look at the cost of energy time effort involving so many agencies in investigation of these cases it's Herculean effort and look at the cost of the court time of the court it's very very expensive on energy and time yes absolutely Court time lawyer's time money cost and your energy cost and effort costs so many agencies are involved so stitch in time is saving night ma'am you know Delhi like the back of your hand you have or your karma is this city though you went to puducherry and you worked wonders there too and I've read your book I've I've seen what you Did You released it I released the Hindi version yes but you you know I've seen you uh working out there too and fighting with people to getting work done


there too and fighting with people to getting work done because there is a general malaise in administration it's like enough times in your life you visited me yeah I visited you visited the open house yes the best part is you walked into the open house I saw the open house I saw how people found uh you know the confidence to come up and speak to you tell me that where is it lacking in Delhi why is it that people still don't have confidence open up the house open up make it mandatory make this mandatory that every government office shall open the door to their own office for an hour a day even an hour a day the opening itself is prevention you see believe in prevention it we made mandatory it's not visited hour 12 to 1 and somebody walks in and you're not there no you have to be there so you will declare your visitor hours be there whoever you are SHO SDM collector SP DGP dig secretary Chief secretary minister hmm that means us type meeting minutes you will


hmm that means us type meeting minutes you will have an open house so open house can be morning open house can be the lean out of the day it can be an open house but open house which you witnessed as a lieutenant governor when I had an open house do you know I knew I got to know my problems I knew my corruption issues and I knew the challenges that's why I could respond and I could go ahead and correct and prevent so the point is make it mandatory for all public servants Rank and file whether you're a politician whether you're a minister whether you're a public servant or a secretary highest rank or lowest inspector so and so visitors are you open house don't open the door mom and Delhi they're all busy with VIP security who has the time that doesn't matter the point is paying you you and I we are paid by the public to serve the public all others are so point is open the door for a visitor or even one hour a day one


for a visitor or even one hour a day one hour a day five days a week and if you do that opening itself is prevention now the Juniors that was prevention yeah see that was itself prevention who had said the it involves more than three departments they're not coordinating now they came to me because you see now that poor man one person can't say he couldn't dictate other terms I got the role of coordinator where more than one department is involved and I could bring them together and get things sorted out but as you chronicled what happens is when you do it then the the political establishment would get irritated there also you had the same problem here also is the same way there is one section here MCD kissing the admin I won't use terms because there are people outside this country who wouldn't know what MCD means and all because there are several layers of government but in case you are free not living in India and you don't understand this just to explain to you


you don't understand this just to explain to you that Delhi has several layers of government so there is the center also placed so the the lieutenant governor here comes from the center the the there is a Delhi government so we have several layers of government and that is where all the problem occurs as you know ma'am Delhi police comes under the central government under the home minister then you have Mr kejriwal who's the chief minister of indones people suffer this is what happens now who is one to go who are you who has who are the people going to say that who should shraddha have gone to should she have gone to the lieutenant governor should she have gone to the Chief Minister local police station she doesn't need to go anywhere else even a beach officer is perfect even a hundred call is enough that's what a citizen needs to know you don't have to go straight to the LG and the CMS go to the local police station go to 100 that's what


the local police station go to 100 that's what all right put it on Twitter put it on social media I'm being beaten I need help you tag Delhi police or tag the police today the police departments are on social media tag them you are putting the onus on them use social media to seek help right and what about friends and family should they put out on social media even if their daughter tells them don't escalate it like it happened in this case suppose the you know she wants her privacy she says no don't put it out or if you see like what happened in the other case where the parents uh were you know killed their own daughter should the neighbors turn around and say that this this set of parents is ill-treating their daughter why not it's a duty because that ill treatment is going to lead to Serious consequences it's not a it's not it's not gossip it's crime prevention how does crime prevention happen unless the citizens cooperate unless the citizen are forthcoming


the citizens cooperate unless the citizen are forthcoming however it's now the responding police how it deals with it with sympathy with empathy with mediation right with action every situation will need its own remedy everybody doesn't need a dunda and everybody near doesn't need a forgiveness it is according to the that's why doctors see the patient and then prescribe it's a prescription and that's a security prescription which is the expertise of the law enforcement agencies and they can call a mediator they can call a counselor they can ask an NGO to link yourself there's so many options correct like ma'am uh you just recently said and I'm quoting uh we do not know the extent we do not know the variety of the problem yeah we do not know which state is the most vulnerable we do not know why women are not using the domestic violence act we have no research on how the ACT function ma'am who is this we firstly I need to know who all are we uh which


I need to know who all are we uh which is like is it the government is it we as people we is it who is it families and and then you need family families families do not know families need to know well what are the what what is Family Violence now I'm looking at larger Family Violence families need to know Family Violence what is the pattern of Family Violence sometimes even alcoholic fathers or angry fathers even if they're not alcoholic beat up the children so what happens to that or there is a male member in the family who may be a distant relative or close attached at uh uh abuses the the child in the and the family protects it it's all Family Violence so I think Family Violence the pattern of Family Violence extent of Family Violence the level of Toleration response to Family Violence the usage of domestic violence Act I think needs to be understood and read through but we need to regularly educate our people as citizenship through ptas through RW associations


people as citizenship through ptas through RW associations the resident welfare associations could should take this up as education as a part of ptas RWS that's where everybody panchayats what about panchayats you have a sir punch half of 33 percent are women what about they being aware of what their rights and responsibility see those these these key heads if they are trained to understand what is Family Violence and there are training programs that's their Duty teachers faculties laws are this though and by the way there's no social audit I've been saying there's a social order to understand I do believe we are doing such audits we are doing portion audits we're doing employment audits we are doing skill audits we're doing so many very interesting audits under centrally sponsored schemes to understand where do we go technology audits startup so we're doing many many audit surveys you can whether they're governmental or non-governmental what about a social audit on to miss Family Violence why not and let us understand which


Family Violence why not and let us understand which state is the most Progressive and which is the most regressive on Family Violence I'm again going to quote what you just recently said you said I'm talking about Family Violence where the woman is the victim where a man has victimized her or a woman has victimized her let us let it surface we're all talking generically uh we need to become specific so that once we know the specific answers we know a disease we know the problem automatically Solutions will come strategies will come policies will come that makes sense to me can you tell me just roughly if there is a road map as to how we can get or how a government can get specific thank you for asking this every University can take up a project every University is actually measured by what kind of research have they done they are related how much of social engineering research have they done it's called social engineering in this social engineering one question one question if you were are you suffering from valid


question if you were are you suffering from valid domestic violence because even mental harassment is domestic violence according to the definition of domestic violence right even she being refused to connect with her family is part of domestic violence definition even she obviously demanding going back and demanding thing is part of domestic violence making a snap of family relation or wanting to support a family member because it it's even economic taking away a forcing salary is all under definitions of domestic violence so we could say first of Allah question project from universities Universe every Law School every University colleges Departments of social welfare department of criminology they can all do these projects you get to know from from students whether they're mothers are victims so then we rate then we decide the pattern let these become public they put this on the website but I want also a university let's do a national survey today's uh I just now read United Nations Secretary General has said every every minute 11 women are becoming violent


has said every every minute 11 women are becoming violent domestic violence victims in the world that's what he said is Israel in the papers today he's also talking about all right if you're talking about then what's what's wrong why does the U.N also not declare a whole Nationals International even rate countries even rich countries so University and you don't need money for this yeah take this up as internship projects and what about National I think a national body National commission for Women rights National Human Rights Commission these are National bodies these National bodies can go about doing asking and funding at home accordingly fund agencies recently I've noticed a national commission for women is promoting and funding seminars on women police stations why not let's do this as a Next Step let's rate and see where are the women being victims of domestic violence maximum rates that state and shame the others yeah rate them rate the ones who are doing well and shame the others and then but it's not naming and shaming only I


then but it's not naming and shaming only I think we need to strategize and strategies could be the following education grooming parenting workshops but the other thing is about digital footprint mostly people are always in touch with each other through WhatsApp groups and all but uh here what happens is that he managed to fool many people that she's still alive it's only when they said that somebody noticed that for a long time they haven't been in touch and they found something suspicious it's the duty at least I feel it's the duty of friends siblings and all that if you find somebody going Silent not talking it's necessary to speak but I feel that but coming from you would be a a stronger advice isn't it parents should never abandon their daughters even if the girl has walked away never abandoned daughters why daughters need this watch they need connectivity but parents should not I think that's a mistake families make sure I think that's where father abandoned her it was an abandonment


where father abandoned her it was an abandonment by the she has a brother too yeah they're abandoned and it's just a friend who connected hey what happened on social media she's silent Etc why not family why did the family abandon her the primary responsibility of a security of a child is of the parent once you become a parent whether you like your child or not now question is how do you maintain a contact it can be through a neighbor through a friend through a relative once you become a parent also these ego troubles that happen there are many cases where girls go against parents wishes and get married yes all right parents are angry okay so they stop talking and the girl gets upset that okay now I severtise and many times men ask their wives in such cases to sever ties with the parental home that's when all the trouble occurs is when the girl feels that you know somebody you've known for 20 25 30 years of your marriage of your life you can just severtise and


marriage of your life you can just severtise and then rebuild with an another set of family and they will trust you they will look after you all your life and you can trust them all your life sometimes those things don't work the earlier safety net was also important I think these are early signals this is what has to be groomed in her upbringing that you will move into you will choose into another home you choose to it's your choice to move into another home you will choose to stay on with another person but there are lines which must be drawn Financial Independence parents relationship so I think this kind of yes so he knew about it staying connected early signs call the friends look I want my relationship because now I have children yeah but it's your duty friends please that's when she does plans either she dies every day yeah or she commits suicide ma'am you were also uh you know IG in uh tehar in the prisons uh thing you've seen hardened criminals does this case seem like one


seen hardened criminals does this case seem like one of those that you saw out there and like you know you were there for prison reforms you faced a lot of criticism also uh when you were there when you said that your prison reforms you know because doing anything new means fighting an entrenched system so tell me how did you tackle that at that time when you saw these kind of really hardened criminals did you see a ray of Hope did you see things that human beings can change I absolutely to them I put them in isolation Wards to make them reflect and gave them counselors so I isolated them and they took me to court saying why they she's given us a human rights violation isolation quota filled the the it's of the up to the Supreme end or the IG to decide how you lodged lodging is yours but my lodging was isolation was not a VIP treatment it was for reflection understand what you've done with the because he is one day to go


done with the because he is one day to go the point is why was I doing prison reforms for the reason one day they have to go back to society let me prepare them for release so that they don't come back yeah so this man was also if he was to go back then I'm it's a reflection and I tell you they broke down on isolation and in the isolation this they slept on that same blanket they got the same fruit they got isolated and the same food no extra that is what it was real you say prison reforms in fact I gave them the real imprisonment then when they were isolated and but also gave them a counselor and give them books to read so they were also counseled a major general retired or a counselor for these gangsters and these hardened criminals and in isolated what a major gender volunteered uh during that time it's a part of my book and he used to come and counsel themes but same carpet same blanket same


and counsel themes but same carpet same blanket same food same person nothing extra it was true imprisonment for them so that they realize what it is to commit such a crime and vipassana that's another thing and also automatically then we took them and that's when they melted completely to witness themselves that's how they it surfaced from within them but that was a later stage first isolated reflection counseling reading then reform and then Earth come back to meditation okay and you're you're a great believer in meditation yes I am you've written about it you've and you've experienced how it can change a person completely certainly the dry cleaning of the Mind dry cleans your thoughts try cleans your actions it's a dry cleaning of the mind so if you're looking for deletion and dry cleaning and deep decongestion that's when the dry cleans off all the negativity and starts you make place for positive thoughts but then you're also reading you're getting counseling you're getting bhakti in


you're getting counseling you're getting bhakti in your this thing the whole environment is a nobling the environment changes you and it doesn't matter which religion you are no that doesn't matter because mind thoughts are uh and agnostic yeah it's negative and positive things are diagnostic you may believe in any faith but thoughts are negative or positive that you face resistance in uh in the prison when you stride yes there was a community which said yoga would change our religion I said you try you try and see because it's all about Mind Body Union so it's all about you and your mind and body they accepted it later but they had to be explained this is 25 years ago before yoga was big you were doing it in in tihar ma'am the other thing I remember I mean this is from my childhood I remember uh I even studied started studying I remember I was one of that generation I'm sure there'll be many who will remember this I I wanted to take the IPS just because of Kiran Medi let


take the IPS just because of Kiran Medi let me tell you this you're you're legendary you would have been very good [Laughter] foreign baby because there were no cranes to remove badly parked cars when I took over his DCP traffic and the roads were clogged broken down buses broken down trucks and there were no cranes to remove them so people would divert people would get jammed up so I said what's the solution this is Asian Games Asian Games time there's a solution they said man we don't have cranes now I can't wait for a government sanction and the money to come so I hired all the Delhi private crates I not hide them mobilize them summoned them mobilize them made them earn for the cost they're picking up the car and we did a traffic fine it was a win-win situation and it wasn't that there were so many cranes this is what 1982 or 83 or something whatever was the crane private crane yeah I they were on my list and they they


yeah I they were on my list and they they came in because they were also lying idle Japanese here they were not here every day they were doing business and that is what helped I did not wait for government to buy a crane I mobilized Support called someone them and then put microphones on them cop on them announcing we are coming remove otherwise you're done so we gave people a chance to including government officers see the message was fall in line it's we need clear roads for people too so regulation of traffic was my priority people must save time traveling on the road because you get clear roads unobstructed roads so that's how we cleared out orgaziabad borders Etc all by one crane just positioning one crane on ghaziabad Border at that time and the truck was afraid to lose because a truck maybe kundi lag jayegi and he's losing business they all cleared my roads by just one crane yeah but that that's your trademark ma'am that you know you believe in this discipline at


that you know you believe in this discipline at all costs you know I've seen uh what you did about uh defecation open defecation and how you fought uh you know that it should not happen in uh when you were there in puducherry and it was like uh no excuses and I remember lots of people were angry with you because you took the camera and you said I will take photographs and they said oh look at this she's privacy so tell us about that how you did that sanitation is the first thing for any City management and any person worthwhile and I'm so glad our honorable prime minister talked about toilet toilets from the red Rampage of the Red Fort had he not done that had we not had toilets in place by then covert would have been a bigger disaster because where do women people go actually toilets had just been finished up built getting built and covered stuck people had toilets in their own homes otherwise where would they have gone and the disease


homes otherwise where would they have gone and the disease would have spread even more had they been all around all this excrete around I think we just made it in time for me sanitation comes first before work comes it has to be clean surrounding green surrounding and healthy surrounding I think that's what makes you work and also they were not willing to clean those toilets you remember when that happened you documented that also and that how you got a you know some girl came up to you and said macaroni that's right so I think that's what happened but it worked when we showed this kind of Relentless determination just as you saw prime minister's Relentless determination they funded it CSR came a lot in making toilets God put social funding um Government funding state government States funding and determination actually helped and it India has become safer because of this otherwise we would have been seriously in the pandemic still if the toilets and all excrete around because flies mosquitoes


toilets and all excrete around because flies mosquitoes are all getting you infected but now you don't see that it's come under huge control and water polluting what about water pollution because they were all sitting on the on the sides of these lakes and the same lake is going for recycling link yeah so it's it's made a lot of difference so unless you make it into a passion and it's not it's a mission I can't stay without it in fact my first second day in Raj nivas to Grand Canal of puducherry which was dirty which is Iconic for puducherry it was the second day of as left uncover why because I found the stink coming to rajnavas itself stink of a grand canal of carrying sewage water whereas should not have and when I started that recovery and who started it it is a local MLA who came to me saying ma'am can you come to my this is my constituency I nobody's listening to me MLA said nobody's listening


nobody's listening to me MLA said nobody's listening to me ma'am I need you to visit it ma'am you were talking about uh stench dirty water lakes uh that was in puducherry yeah you live in Delhi you've seen the state of the yamuna it's so filthy you've seen and you've lived here in the month of October in the month of November when you cannot breathe the air you can actually smell you can see the soot in the air that we are all choking away but your former colleague your former friend is the chief minister foreign but what I think Delhi my city our city needs is Night Cleaning Night Cleaning Night clean body Cherry had Night Cleaning we used to do two level cleaning we used to do a 10 a.m cleaning and we used to do night cleaning so when people walked the walk to the streets they went clean we did it twice it spent money we spent money we got it so Night Cleaning earlier of course there was night cleaning but they


earlier of course there was night cleaning but they were not doing their job here now we're watching it and getting it done so they delivered we had the Manpower we had the contract with swachtha Corporation and we were paying the money but the money not well spent now money totally spent because of supervision supervised supervised get on the roads yourself see things for yourself the municipal Commissioners the deputy Commissioners should take rounds photographs put them on their Twitter handle and say night cleaning and also wherever you're finding a dump because you have Manpower even in Delhi they just have to deliver better one so introduce Night Cleaning quickly and secondly is that we need to introduce a home a home digesting bring in a quick technology to do home digesting of particularly the soft waste right order recycling so it can be even rwas because some of them are now trying but very few make it mandatory every rwa has to handle its own issues of garbage management recycling plastic recycling um soft


of garbage management recycling plastic recycling um soft organic waste once once you have this technology third find the technology to do dump management quickly you'll recover crores of rupees of land but also stop pollution look there are Simple Solutions but the key is Municipal commissioner the deputy Municipal Commissioners the locals the inspector date everybody walks the streets one hour in the morning how dare we used to do that I'm not saying something which is it's worked when the officers walk the streets they take photographs take accountability call the local area person call the rwa so I think citizens participation citizens responsibility with these two three steps Night Cleaning digesters organic digesters they're simple they're easy RWS responsibilities the local area panchayats right and then the large dump management for larger technology to start digesting it and make manure out of it power out of it gas out of it it's green gold these dumps are green gold if you want to look at it they have green gold because they


to look at it they have green gold because they can be harvested for energy and manuring and many other components Elements which they have uh ma'am you uh you have uh so many ideas on uh you know how to improve improve our Urban centers I won't even go into whether it is city or town because you've lived in both you've worked in both uh and you have these ideas uh I know you uh you don't want to talk politics and you don't want to talk specifics but you did try and get into politics at one point of time and then you bid goodbye to it can can you still do things without being a politician can you still bring about change oh Administration can completely do it civil servants can do it What stopped civil servants to walk the streets what bars the cinema most the left and governor of Delhi is doing this but if he's doing it what about others he's doing it and that's where he's driving the change by the way what about everybody else there


the change by the way what about everybody else there are lacks of employees in Delhi delhi's has very high population of public servants but you're seeing how much of resistance he's facing from the ahmadmi party even though the LG is material of that change anything Innovative original new will also get him credits well walk with him walk with him Nothing Stops you go with him you're talking about the chief minister why does the local Minister go with him there's a competition why are you competing he's playing his role you play your own why don't you go with him it will overnight change the city of Delhi stop competition stop looking for only credit work for Combined City clean clean City so but if the MLS don't want they only want to compete for credits all right what about public servants they're not competing it's their duty to do it they're getting caught they say between the Rivalry of they're finding excuses these are excuses they have their own duty to perform Smita they have their


their own duty to perform Smita they have their own duty to perform they must do it for a bump fearlessly so if you were chief minister I know you don't want to get into politics and you don't want to talk politics but if you were chief minister what would you do for Delhi today one about the crime situation which we began the podcast with one was that and two to improve the living conditions of people in Delhi what would you do you say if I've a chief minister yes I would have stopped first of all that smoking coming from Punjab foreign it's not a question of acceptance failure it's not a question of asking for time it's like valuing people's time and being very anxious and angry why is territism but the question is that's that's uh you don't even feel uh hypothetical name ma'am because that means that you're not delivering on the promises that you made to your electorate isn't it if if it was made that we will give you


if if it was made that we will give you clean air clean air is the basic thing right to give to your electorate clean air is the basic health today yeah in fact Delhi is becoming unlivable because you can't breathe my lovely South Delhi house I could sit in the balcony and open the windows Etc and doors and breathe fresh air I can't in fact half of the bread is full of dust it's full of uh it's unbelievable now city is unlivable and whatever we can do collectively individually and collectively regionally as an NCR we must do it as soon as possible everybody together because it's people's lives children's lives children's future their outdoor has stopped children's outdoor is gone for a Stars where do they go walking walking on the track how can they go running and jogging on the streets how can they go cycling how can they go playing and the schools also will say indoor indoor because it's all outdoor is full of dust which is a


all outdoor is full of dust which is a fact I think we are affecting the next Generations that's a number one issue at the moment for the city and if the person concerned has a control in the neighboring then that is a major source also even if it's 20 even if 20 I don't know the research but even if it is why not why not because that's also under your control you have a dual responsibility yes so what would you advise him to do what exact steps would you tell him where should he Focus as a delhiite he's your chief minister to forget about what happened in the past he's your chief minister too what would you tell him to do to camp in Punjab camp in Punjab and get it done camp in Punjab I understand the research showing that the chief minister of punjab's constituency was the biggest polluter why can't each MLA of that place camp in their own constituencies camp in their own constant take charge and take responsibility


camp in their own constant take charge and take responsibility each one of them camps there and saying this is how you have to be rated put the onus on each elected representative why not and the panchayats them and the panchayats will still happen but what is needed for the farmers provide them that I believe there was money available I believe there is a Machinery available I believe there's a technology well but I believe put it together but Camp yourself there monitor on a regular basis but put the elect the elected representatives who've been elected whoever it is whether it's of one party or the other each one of them is responsible that's what the role of the country City's chief minister is go camp there during the before it starts and go Village to Village Walk the village now this is not for Gathering votes it's for People's Health that will bring you votes man we discussed about what the advice you would give a chief minister now what would you advise the the


chief minister now what would you advise the the commissioner of police of Delhi to make Delhi a safe place I do not know his style of working right now but I would like to see him more visible I see him driving technology changes very well putting systems in place very well I noticed that futuristic data management and predictions on crime very well because that's coming in the newspapers so my mind is only related to what's coming in the newspapers but I wanted to become I like to see leadership more visible that's exactly exactly what I said earlier if the leadership is more visible which means that he finds time to connect to the grassroot he can pick up a police station of the day right and he said oh I'm so busy yes you are exceedingly stressed out I know that but do not go away from the ground level the connect with people the connect with the people connect with not only the people but his own Rank and file they cannot see you the constabulary doesn't get


file they cannot see you the constabulary doesn't get to see you visit the police stations look at their premises look at their amenities look at talk to them and find out how they're performing listen to them hear them out take our ideas so I would like to see him at least three times in a week visit police stations directly at announced or unannounced time would be good to have announced time give people a chance because you know overnight and then don't declare which police station will you go anyone okay surprise once yeah anyone but commissioner is going to be on the on the Move there's probably a reason why ma'am that forces got together and made sure that you did become commissioner I still remember the time I'm in uh God bless his soul he's no longer there Mr dudwal who is Junior to you uh became uh Commissioner of police and you didn't uh what did you feel at that time like you felt anger or you felt can't fight the system anymore