like that defy Pakistan they have terrorists as the front line of defense how do you deal with that that is a strategy how do you respect an army which which keeps a terror front in going no that is a strategy that they've adopted and we have made it very clear that terrorism in all its forms is unacceptable to us and that has been our stand for many years in so many places including Global fora in the U.N there is nothing like a good terrorist and a bad terrorist and I think a foreign minister very recently also said the same thing so we have always been Against Terror and terrorism if a nation chooses to adopt that path then it is their funeral because those terrorists will come back to bite them only as is happening now so they keep laughing about uh our army in their social media and their television networks and all they we used our army used to be a something that they would laugh about that is they are now you know grappling with the thing that


are now you know grappling with the thing that the people that they used to eulogize they they used to say oh my wonderful like you know they had these big mansions uh when they when they retired now they are talking about the corruption in the Pakistan Army that they're saying Pakistan that is what they say that that division now they turn around and say that look at that Army where one Chief goes and the other one comes and it is a very you know polite and modest Way's handshake was being on their television they were saying their journalists were saying so like when you see all those things are how do you feel sir no see we have done a job to the best of her ability we did it because we are proud of what we were doing we did not do it for a personal fame or Fortune and at the end of the day if if I have the respect of all of y'all and of the country what more can you ask for and after all that 200


more can you ask for and after all that 200 million you can't take it up with you so what will you do with it right so but when you hang up your boots what do you feel at that stage no I think it was just a job well done if I can give myself a pat on the back that uh but you know this question does get asked often that how did you feel and things like that but we know that we have to retire this did you join us there became Chief I knew the 30th April is my last day so this is not a surprise or anything and any uh a new you know mentally prepared for that right so he used to say a Thai 28th Chief will retire after 28 months so I knew precisely how much time I win the jail and I think that also motivates you to achieve more in that limited time that you have right so you know you know that the clock is ticking right from the word go and you try to do your


from the word go and you try to do your best uh there's a war currently on uh there's the Ukraine conflict which is on what are the military lessons that we can learn from that uh War for example uh you know there's this whole thing that tank battles it's probably a thing of the past now I'm feeling odd even saying that because this is the month of the longevala anniversary but still I need to say that is it something of the past are these battlefields changing now will there any lessons to be learned from this ongoing conflict and some of them in fact had even expounded before I'd retired the first and foremost before we get down to the lower level is that Wars will happen okay and there is a certain school of thought that Wars are of the past and you know big Nations will not fight or nuclear countries will not fight and so on and so forth and therefore diminishing sort of importance to defense preparedness and reducing budgets with that has been proven


and reducing budgets with that has been proven totally wrong and this has to be said uh Joseph even in 62 if you remember yes so then also and also that the Prime Minister had thought that it always will not happen and therefore the statement which I made that to ensure the peace be prepared for war that is the context of that statement that if you have to ensure peace you have to prepare for war and preparation of war is a very long drawn and continuous process takes decades to be always prepared a new equipment which has to be inducted for example the procurement process its manufacture its induction into the Armed Forces you're getting to and deploy it and you know utilize it where it's not doesn't happen overnight so it is a continuous process to be prepared for war so that is the first and foremost lesson that Wars will happen and you have to be prepared for it and if you don't invest in your defense capabilities then you will have to pay a very big price later on like


have to pay a very big price later on like the Europeans are now spending spending so they are spending and not only that they see Ukraine they ignored their defense services now the cost that they will spend on reconstructing their country will be 100 times more than what they would have had they actually defense of the nation have spent adequately on the defense of the nation to start with right so that is I think the much larger picture but coming down to the question that you had asked you know the character of War there are two aspects there is a nature of war and character of War and the nature of war is obviously death and destruction you know in achieving that aim with the character of or how you go about doing that changes from time to time whether it was host Cavalry whether it was armor whether it is Machine Gun if there's air power the method the character keeps changing and evolving and the side which evolves better and faster will win so now in the context of Ukraine and


will win so now in the context of Ukraine and with the large armor battles will still be relevant in the era where there is a proliferation of drones and armed drones with cameras which can pick up each and every yeah each and every person let alone a tank an individual can also be targeted how will the character of War change how will your tactics change and how will you deal with this new threat so that is an again an ongoing process which we will keep having to and there will always be you know in the last century the battle was the tank versus the anti-tank weapon in this Century it will be drawn versus counter drone that will be the technological race somebody will develop a drone you will develop a country but you can't get rid of the tanks right because that also could happen to to keep territory a drone can't keep territory right but the tank will also have to evolve evolve okay and the tactics of employment of the hour will all serve to be evolved


employment of the hour will all serve to be evolved perhaps the days of this Mass employment of armor may not be there okay that is the traditional way that you know you will entire Armored Division advances in one goes with 100 tanks visible huh if 100 tanks are visible with 100 drones then obviously you will suffer more casual so maybe the methodology of employment will also undergo a change and that is where you know our tactics and strategies will have to Ponder on and analyze each of these battles and see how we need to under undertake this even our weapon system uh gensa because many are saying that our weapon systems are Soviet sourced so uh now we're seeing what's happening in the conflict I'm not taking sides or I'm not making a comment on that and I don't expect you also to make a comment on it but still I think uh there is a there is a thinking that uh our sourcing needs to be maybe more varied and our training will have to change


maybe more varied and our training will have to change our Electronics everything is Soviet sourced or Russian sourced what happens then no the that was a compulsion of the past that you know we were a young country we did not have our own strong industrial base so we had to import weapons and the way the you know the nations were aligned at that point of time most of our equipment was coming from Russia yeah I will not say that we need to diversify our sources and the make in India initiative Atman Bharat initiative is a very good thing that has been done so that we start making our own weapons and equipment yeah and we reduce our dependence on Imports to the extent possible why why I say to the extent possible because no country makes hundred percent of the things themselves right even if Russia is making a helicopter hundred percent of the components is not in Russia is the t40 component so that also comes from abroad the thing is ever 100 your own but this supply chain issues which have


100 your own but this supply chain issues which have happened after covet that has right it has actually been a catalyst yeah Supply chains here we can have a portion of it external but the bulk of it should be within our country and if that happens then most of our equipment will be of Indian origin right and as far as the Army is concerned as it is most of our things we are making ourselves when our tanks we are making the bmps we are making the canine vajra the self propelled gun we are making so most of the it's more for the Air Force and the Navy especially for the Air Force whether main thing the aircraft was coming from abroad but now that is also going to undergo a change my one point was left from the China episode is going to labor on the China thing and I want to also come to the agnivir and the landscape sir you are the uh I guess you are the first and only Chief who stepped on the rich and Lara


only Chief who stepped on the rich and Lara zangla uh pass in that area so uh what is the status there sir and when uh you uh you're saying that we also decided to go offense on the offensive when you discuss this strategy with the top political leadership so because this was a big change and uh there was also a change that you allowed the troops to use firearms in case of provocation by the Chinese so how how was the political reaction to this suggestion by you and how how did it happen how did you uh go ahead with it sir this situation was continuously on and unfolding and we were having regular meetings on this subject including what all actions we can take counter measures we can take so it's not that it suddenly happened overnight that we decide to do something and we were prepared and we knew that if we do something then as in Bala code we have to be prepared for the reaction to that and therefore it was a very deliberate process


that and therefore it was a very deliberate process and that is why we waited till August it is not we could have gone up the next day also but we waited so that we were prepared all the preparations were in place to cater for any possible escalation and of course if the troops are at and it is my duty to go and visit them and they look forward to that and then that is what I said that you know our troops are very Hardy but you have to go and meet them on the spot see how they are And when they see the chief coming where they are and they know that their officers us down the chain when they know that you are willing to be there where they are willing to share in their dangers are cognizant of the terrain and the weather conditions and the living conditions living conditions then they are that much more strengthened okay they don't think that you're you know commanding from a air-conditioned office in Delhi they know that you're willing to


office in Delhi they know that you're willing to come and take the risk and share the risks with them so that is what boosts their morale and Sir like in this area like uh post uh 2020 sir uh I've been very fortunate uh you had a big role to play in it to visit the area multiple times or like uh I was people used to taunt me that ladakh is your second home I have seen a lot of uh have habitat coming up roads coming up and people say uh like the work of next 10 years has been done in 12 monthly so uh what all did you do there sir no we were always in the process of improving our infrastructure in all the Border areas not only in ladakh but even in arunachal so it's a continuous process of course this was a catalyst and what would have been A Five-Year Plan was done in one year but it's not that it was not there on the cards we we knew that a road has to come and the Strategic


that a road has to come and the Strategic reasons why you need infrastructure to keep a border safe so could you just explain that to us also no see if you need the keeper border safe you have to deploy troops on or near the border if you have to deploy troops they have to be housed so you need barracks and shelters but you cannot build a shelter unless you have a road going there or you cannot maintain them unless there's a road going there so first you'll have to make a road then you have to put the infrastructure in place then you have to Garrison how's the men there then the road has to be good enough so that you can maintain them all the year round that is also important it looks high in those Heights so that is where this complete gamut of infrastructure development airstrips also players trips suppose it's a place which is going to be cut off in Winter then you should be able to land your aircraft there or at least resupply them by air


aircraft there or at least resupply them by air which is happening in many places even now in the Eastern sector so that is how infrastructure development is very important um and also equipment which which can you know which is sustainable in those Heights so the equipment for example the K-9 vajra the self propelled gun was actually meant for deserts you know not meant for high altitude but we said let's try it out so we sent a few of those guns there and they worked out very well even though firing but then we realized that to make them all weather capability including Winters certain number of cold weather modifications would have to be done so then we got in touch with the manufacturers lnt they sent their Engineers there they saw what is required and now we have deployed guns which were meant and bought for desserts in desert Warfare for 40 degrees plus temperature are now deployed in 40 minus so yeah those modifications yeah so that's why it needs to be dynamic dynamic as the situation


why it needs to be dynamic dynamic as the situation develops uh just a little bit of your personal life your your your son of an Air Force person why did you join the forces what is it that motivated you why uh why the army and what role did your father play in choosing that actually you know although my father was in the Army Air Force he was originally an army credit I see he was in the IMA but broke his knee while playing football and then he was withdrawn on medical grounds and then he finished his graduation and joined the Air Force but in heart of hearts he always wanted me to go to Army only okay so in a way he was happy and I would have liked to joined the Air Force though since my father was an Air Force but because my eyesight Air Force was out um so I by default landed up in the Army I wonder whether the force knows this right so but of course he was very happy that I joined the army and of course you don't


I joined the army and of course you don't know when you join that you're going to rise to what level but definitely is very proud of me General rawat passed away there was such a outpouring of grief uh because he was such a popular man could you tell me a little bit about your interaction with General rawat is that of course was a very big shock to us especially since we had on Seventh itself been together or the curtain razor for the panics exercise which was to start in Una shortly thereafter and that is the last time I met him my last time seventh in fact we did that thing along with the honorable RRM and he went on 8 to Wellington I went to Mao and of course yeah that's where I got the news of Christ having occurred so it was quite a big shock to me and in the three years proceeding to that we had been really very close yeah though I must also say that till he came to Eastern command as the mggs in


he came to Eastern command as the mggs in 12 or 13. I'd never met him before okay uh me is so big that somehow a parts that never crossed but after he came to Eastern command as the major general general staff at that time I was also a Major General in nagaland and then he came as our core commander in Three core then of course our interaction was much more than his Chief and vice Chief and then of course as Chief and CDL CDs then we were actually more or less together yes after that and especially when he was the core commander and I was under him is to have a lot of Heart to Heart talks and used to tell me is at that time neither did he think he'll become Chief neither did I ever think that I'll beat taking over from him but we used to just talk about what is good and bad for the Army and how you know things can be done in a better manner and then a lot of these things are you know views were quite common


of these things are you know views were quite common in it just yeah you know fate and destiny that he became Chief and he could Implement those points and once he went on to become the CDs and I became I could follow up on those points because we were of the same mind and wish to discuss that sitting in dimapur but those who saw you from the outside and him he seemed a very flamboyant kind of a you know achieve and you were one of those quite a quiet mild-mannered persons who wouldn't talk much but apparently you you you had a good uh yes so that's the first question methods might have been different but what we wanted to do was almost the same right sir yeah very different ways of doing the same thing but I'll use uh generally you know gelled on a number of things including you know the redeployment rebalancing you know not from you know strategic level to HR issues where of the same view and I would say 90 of the things okay of


and I would say 90 of the things okay of course there always will be differences I I'm coming to the uh agnivir uh scheme uh you would have gone through the entire thing uh there's also this talk that you know uh the Himachal elections which have just concluded uh there are many who feel that maybe uh the BJP lost because uh people in Himachal Pradesh did not uh did not agree with the scheme they felt that it was not right because you know you they you know lacks of uh youth you can see when you're driving you can see hundreds of thousands of people exercising wanting to get into the forge there's that whole thing that Himachal Pradesh has and they don't understand the concept that Charles that they the youth will come back home uh of course I don't want you to talk about the politics of it but just explain to us that how where did that communication fail because at that time you also spoke about it quite a lot you try to convince


about it quite a lot you try to convince people that that's not the case but there's this still that little confusion in the minds of people see uh like I will not like to comment on the outcome of the elections what could have or could not yeah but it's just come up all over again that's why huh so that's not a thing but as far as HR policies are concerned HR policies always undergo changes now in the mid 70s the color service used to be only seven years with the seven year Reserve liability and there was nothing like pension not not many people know that but that was changed it was changed to 15 years to make it mentionable with a two-year resolvability so if you can increase it you can decrease it no HR policies will also be dynamic to say that you can't change a HR policy is not correct now we are trying out this scheme give it a chance how do you know it will not work when the age was increased or the color service was


when the age was increased or the color service was increased from 7 to 15 years there was a U.N cry that oh will be a old army how can you have such no we need youngsters in the Army exactly our opposite argument was given at that point of time now when you're trying for a young Army everybody saying why so these things are always you know it's from time to time we must give it a chance may make may be a very good thing it may have you know and and no policy will be foolproof whenever you try something there bound to be some negative troubles and that would be tinkered away they will be tinkered with that will be those changes will be brought into but the first four years I don't anticipate there being any requirement of change after that when the first batch of people start coming out then we'll know exactly what more needs to be done and as in when requirement of change is there I'm sure whoever is in the chair at that point


sure whoever is in the chair at that point of time the service Chiefs will approach the raksha mantri and the government that this is good this is not good this needs to be strengthened here we need changes and those changes will keep happening is the training period the short training period something that you think is all right because you've gone through a rigorous training uh module uh is that short training enough for again there are techno technical arms and non-technical arms so definitely our technical arms little bit more training will be required but when I've been speaking to Foreign Service Chiefs during my visits abroad and when they have also come almost all of them have a training period between six and eight months so it is not that it's going to be a very short training they have also the same then you keep learning on the job it's not that you train and that's it when you join your units you keep training there also so training is a continuous process okay because uh there some people have raised the question


okay because uh there some people have raised the question that the agnivirs who are going to join the service are they just Cannon for the especially you know with regard to China are they just going to be sent to China and as Canon photo not China sent to the Chinese border to the Embassy not uh not that and in fact we were talking about the 71 War prior to the 71 War whoever was under training was sent to the unit irrespective of how much training he had done somebody had done three months training somebody had done six months training officers were commissioned from the Ima in October itself sure yeah Emergency Services no no the normal the regular courses were also cut down okay everyone was respect off to the units with whatever training they had and within two months they were cohesive unit they're totally integrated and within three months they were in battle and delivered a victory so why are people saying that these people will not be a cohesive part of our units will the units accept them so because they


our units will the units accept them so because they would have gone through a more rigorous training and these are blokes who've just done a few months no will they will they be you know the in pecking order will they come lower how does that every year doesn't a unit get new recruits every year a unit gets new people from the training center 10 15 of them in this year also they will get 10 15. Leo to those people some will stay and some will go out every year every unit is getting new people at bottom of the ladder right and in one unit it will be four five eight people eight people out of 800 is no big deal they will get assimilated after two days you don't even know who's who when we we had a time when crpf officers used to come for two years attachment to the Indian army and when there is to come this to where the badges of rank and all of that unit and after a month or so you didn't know who's who they are not


so you didn't know who's who they are not lesser people they're not lesser or that he's that crpf Japan attachment and he is the regular fellow and he's to deliver as good as anyone else right he never thought I'm here only for two years or we did not think yes all up to you how you make use of the resource at your disposal and this is I don't think it's going to be the culture of the foreign there will be no impact on the efficiency of a unit when you took over as Army Chiefs I was the person I was the first person standing in front of you you are from Maharashtra or this is natural no I think it's natural because you know you've been commissioned to the sick light infantry you've spent better part of your life with them roads when we walked in was a sick person I said no it's just second nature when you join the unit that just goes to reinforce that agnivir point that when you join a unit you become one


point that when you join a unit you become one with that unit whether you're from place a or place B doesn't matter your unit is your life your unit is your family and you will do anything for them so that is how it translates and that is what the Army strength is but we are one thank you sir very much thank you so much for speaking to us and giving us a kind of an uh insight into what is what happened uh in 2020 and putting what is happening now into perspective we are most honored that you spoke with us thank you it was pleasure interacting with both of you all and I always have considered you always not only my good friends but good friends of the Indian army and I've always reported in a very objective manner on whatever we have done thank you thank you sir thank you for listening or watching this episode of a i podcast with Smitha prakash do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste foreign


Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste foreign [Music]


for many many years across the decades people have relegated mental health to the background saying that you know for a lot of people mental health is not always the priority and we don't realize that the prevalence rates are pretty high women are expected to be these superheroes you know who have these superpowers who are going to be doing these multiple things at at the same time we feel judged we feel that uh people will start looking at us differently we feel that people around us will just not understand what is happening with us if we will go and share with them that this is our concern they would ridicule us they would laugh at us they will be sarcasm coming at us so we try to contain it within our own self if it's a problem it's stressing you out it's troubling you it's giving you sleepless nights it's preoccupying your thought process it's impacting your functioning please go and talk to someone it is a problem regardless of you know whether it seems like


problem regardless of you know whether it seems like a problem to someone around you or not start switching off your phones when you are at home we feel that the whole world is going to collapse and crash you know a good phone off I'm not available God knows what catastrophe is going to happen but nothing really happens I can't meet you in the eye because I'm guilty as charged it's true Namaste welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash today I speak about the issue of mental health we have an expert but before I introduce you to her uh a little bit of information there are many studies which have been conducted to determine how many Indians suffer from some form of mental disorders but those are based on people who actually seek therapy or admit to suffering from the symptoms it's 2022 but it's still not spoken about there are many kinds of disorders psychological disorders which impact on your well-being there are the common ones like stress anxiety depression Eating


are the common ones like stress anxiety depression Eating Disorders OCD covered related or insomnia-related disassociation then there are serious disorders like personality disorders bipolar disorders schizophrenia and others there is no age barrier to who suffers from these disorders young old middle age no caste status religion or gender barriers to understand when to seek help how to figure out that you might be sliding into some kind of a depression or your friend or your spouse or your parent or your child whether they need help how to figure out that you need professional help I spoke to a counselor Dr kamna chiber she heads the mental health and Behavioral Sciences Wing at Fortis Healthcare in gurgaon Dr chiber is a change therapist who works with children adolescents and adults joining me in this podcast with Dr chiber is Ani's Health beat reporter Shalini thank you very much for speaking with us Dr Tribble my first question to you will be that it's 2022 and yet in India people are


that it's 2022 and yet in India people are still hesitant to seek some kind of uh you know a treatment or accept it even that they could be a case of mental disorder in the family most of us would tend to think that oh yes and you know work out exercise sometimes that's not the case right we tend to think that it's oh old age depression play with your grandchildren you become okay this is the advice that older people are given Sometimes women are their health mental health issues are completely ignored that you know no no no multitasking is something everybody does so you know their issues so when does one realize that you are sliding into uh some kind of uh depression state or mental anxiety state where you need to seek help thank you so much for having me here it's a real pleasure that you know we are speaking about this really important topic about mental health I think you know you've rightly pointed out that for a lot of people this is not a topic which is given


of people this is not a topic which is given that kind of priority and emphasis for many many years across the decades people have relegated mental health to the background saying that you know stresses hands normal Zindagi shoes so yes that is the truth that for a lot of people Mental Health is not always the priority and we don't realize that the prevalence rates are pretty high for mental health related conditions if you look at the survey which was done in 2015-16 that highlighted very clearly that about 12 percent of the population has mental health related conditions in India in India this is the Indian survey and this is when you know the 12 percent would mean that those who have come and sought or those who are admitting it right the the shadowy secret lot or those who don't even know it that's not there that's not there and that survey also pointed out that ninety percent of the people who actually require mental health related services are not being able to access it now what are the reasons that


able to access it now what are the reasons that access is not there yes we can turn around and say that experts we have a very large population we have a huge geographical region that we need to look at but what that also does is that you know as you go into the Interiors of the country a lot of times experts may not be available that is one reason we do have a pacity of experts who has pointed it out our data points it out but at the same time like you were very rightly saying that there are so many myths misconceptions and continued stigma which is associated with mental health and mental health related illnesses that people hesitate to seek help and one of the primary thoughts how can I have a mental health related issue I belong to a good family I have the support system I uh you know have friends and I am educated I'm working I'm earning well why would I have anxiety why would I have depression so people also hesitate to accept that mental health related


so people also hesitate to accept that mental health related illnesses are illnesses like physical health related conditions so any individual can have a mental health related issue today I may be sitting here as an expert there is no guarantee to say that tomorrow I could not have a mental health related condition because there is also biological aspect which is associated with mental health related illnesses and we tend to be ignorant of that aspect which compromises people's ability to then start seeking out help we feel judged we feel that people will start looking at us differently we feel that people around us will just not understand what is happening with us if we will go and share with them that this is our concern they would ridicule us they would laugh at us there will be sarcasm coming at us so we try to contain it within our own selves we curb our instincts also which may be telling us that this is not how usually I tend to be when I face problems problem IA what is


to be when I face problems problem IA what is my typical approach how much would it affect me and when you are beginning to recognize that you are struggling to cope with situations and increasingly you're finding that either your moods are dipping uh you're not being able to bounce back from situations your ability to cope with the situations is getting compromised it's affecting your sleep it's affecting your physical health you're losing interest in things uh you're not wanting to meet people you're struggling to communicate very effectively about what is going on with you uh the the differences that you're beginning to notice in your approach they are becoming more and more intense even when you're trying to put an effort you're feeling that kind of fatigue setting in that I am not being able to shift things that's the time when you need to start seeking help you need to go speak to someone to try and understand what is it that is going on with you you may not have


that is going on with you you may not have an understanding of what that label could be depression hair anxiety here bipolar hence that is not your job to figure just the way you would have approached your GP when you was noticing some symptoms in your body if you're seeing that you know my thinking is changing the way I'm feeling is changing the way I'm responding is changing and it's persisting it's becoming more different I'm getting that feedback from the outside that's the time that you approach someone to understand that could this also mean that there is something which is happening with me which needs to be looked at and you can approach anyone you can still go ahead and talk to the same general physician who you approach on a regular day-to-day basis for your other physical health related concerns because all doctors are trained to understand and know what may be going on in terms of mental health as well and they will be able to guide you that is this something that you need to


guide you that is this something that you need to look at from a professional standpoint or is this something which is a regular day-to-day thing it will pass you know doctor when you talk about go talk to someone and you notice a change in you there are many times that you know children know that there's something not right I'm getting angry I'm getting bullied in school but when they speak to their parent their parent would think that there's an outside Factor there's nothing wrong with the child my child is strong you don't want to admit especially with boys I've seen that when girls uh they tend to think not realizing that that is manifesty manifestation of something which is going on and the child is probably not telling you but there is something happening um so you tend to think that you can deal with it because you're a good parent how can you seek help and then when the school counselor who's trained to notice these things points it out the there is a resistance in parents who tend to


there is a resistance in parents who tend to think uh they always are going to point out and say there's something wrong with the parenting it's not that my child is fine they're unnecessarily thinking that don't you think that Charlie you're a young parent do you think that that many times parents think that this is a judgment on the on a parent yeah that's true ma'am because they don't want to accept that fact and you know there is something which at that time a child requires some kind of counseling you know they should interact with child they should ask that what exactly is happening but they avoid to do so do you think that doctor like I mean this is a problem that a young parent my children are grown up but Charlie has a young child but I know for a fact when my children were in school there was no counselor and the only counselor who was there was just you know if if the child was getting too violent and there was a there was a you know A bash up


was a there was a you know A bash up which happened between boys and girls or something like that they would be told that that was about it and in some schools in in fact in most schools there is no counselor who can detect these minor things which you know by the time the child becomes a preteen it's already manifested in violence or in in behavioral change absolutely no you're very right uh that there is a hesitation which comes in parents to be able to acknowledge first and then accept later on that there is a problem that needs to be addressed and that it could be clinical in nature again it comes back to the same point that um in many ways we are ill-equipped to be able to even uh understand that a mental health related problem could manifest with children we believe that mental health related illnesses are only things which happen to adults that is one belief that people have the second aspect is that we keep on reinforcing the idea that children are always resilient they bounce back


idea that children are always resilient they bounce back very well so even when a child is going through a situation where there is some aggression which is coming at them or they have been uh bullied within either in the school or in their neighborhood we believe that they will be able to bounce back especially if we have gotten to know about the situation or the incident didn't we believe that you know when we have spoken to our child we've given them the reassurance we have gone and fought on behalf of our child that everything would take be settled and we don't realize that children too tend to think and feel and as a result also respond in the ways that adults do as well they are also getting equally impacted by a situation when they are going through it but we don't necessarily give it that much importance because one a child does not have an adequate vocabulary to be able to express very comprehensively what is it that is happening to me inside so they may not always


happening to me inside so they may not always have emotional words in their repertoire of the vocabulary that they have that which could communicate to a to an adult around them that they are struggling I think the second aspect also is that besides children not having the vocabulary like I said our belief is that children will cope our belief also is that children don't necessarily understand the complexities we are not taking into account the fact that our children especially in today's times are being exposed to a lot more information than what my generation your generation or Generations prior to us were exposed to so their understanding of situations is far more enhanced than what it was for us we were very naive when we were I feel that Our Generations probably did not even understand the complexities of situations of relationships the way younger children today do so I think that's a gap in understanding within adults and uh what we do need to do is start educating and start providing information and knowledge to families as well


start providing information and knowledge to families as well that student who can have mental health related concerns it does not mean that you know your child the rest of your child's life is ruined it does not mean that your child is not going to be able to perform a leaderful life that in fact if you were to intervene at an early stage your child is going to overcome whatever it is that the experience is and be able to actually grow towards better strengths in the future if you intervene at an early enough stage what that means is that parents and schools need to work in collaboration they need to see each other as a team yeah and I think that is something which a lot of times goes missing because it's become mix it somewhere become transactional in a way that we look at it as you know okay my child goes here I am paying a certain fee they need to provide me a service that's the kind of mechanism which has come into play so we don't


mechanism which has come into play so we don't necessarily see that the school the teachers within the school and the counselor or the principal the headmistress they are all aligned to ensuring that children are growing and developing well that they have the right kind of inputs available the right kind of scaffolding available and if they are highlighting something to you it's not because they want to you know segregate your child or make your child feel that they're different or they're not coming out of some sort of a vengeful space to impact your child's progress they're actually invested they're spending a lot of time the child spends maximum time in school at least now during covet that had changed for us but now children are back to Schools they're spending so much time over there teachers are most sensitive to noticing what are the changes that are happening and if parents would see this as a collaborative process teachers would also point out things at a much earlier stage yeah so if we start changing our approaches and


stage yeah so if we start changing our approaches and we start building on our information and understanding I feel that a lot of these situations can be addressed uh in a much more wholesome manner because children do need that support yeah it is these are basically spatially after lockdown you they really they really need you know some kind of support what I have also seen that you know if you talk to the teacher teacher will say you know it's a kind of negative motivation what does negative motivation waste was very surprising you know if you you are listen you yours you know you are expecting something else from the teacher and teacher says your child has not done this and that and you know if you are saying we are saying something to the child so ma'am take it as a negative motivation we can understand negative motivation but what about six year old or five-year-old child you know it's like you know over expectations from the you know parents also towards teachers and teachers also uh towards the parents


towards teachers and teachers also uh towards the parents get to this point and ask the doctor an additional question especially during covert times because you know the teachers have to finish the courses so there are many teachers who say I'm we cannot like imagine a class where you have 40 you know 35 40 50 kids of course a teacher notices these discrepancies but the pressure is on them also that do they do they concentrate on these things so their parent-teacher meeting actually becomes a very draining exercise because she has to tell the parent about this and the parent has no patience because a parent is more concerned about the grades and about syllabus I'm going to get to that point and over expectations and comparison also this is also the factor it's a lot of comparisons question of timing and too many kids to each counselor or each teacher that's a major major issue I'm going to get to that uh and ask you related question but doc when you were speaking about you know these things it just suddenly


speaking about you know these things it just suddenly struck me about this generational shift you know Safety and Security Now My Generation our parents never talk to us about the wrong touch right right and we were never told that we were left with uncles and aunts and cousins and people like that and there are many in my generation who were victim to this wrong touch maybe you are seeing more in your generation where parents are talking about this to their children how important is it for parents to discuss this because if it is not discussed many people say this um and all that might be decent people but they might be a male servant out there there might be a woman servant out there when I say servant of course it's not pejoratively used but what I mean is unattended house help anybody out there guest working in guest walking in right and maybe another older child also experimenting you know an older cousin an older uncle aunt somebody experimenting with a younger child figuring out how does one talk


a younger child figuring out how does one talk to this there is a hesitancy because our parents didn't talk to us so what is the language how do you talk to your child your grandchild about these subjects which have remained Taboo in our families I think this is such an important aspect that uh I'm so glad we're talking about this right now as well because we don't even pick it up in a lot of our regular conversations as well and it's so essential that we need to start talking to Children more about what is good touch what is Bad Touch what is uh attraction how are relationships formed uh what is it that leads to the sense of arousal that you experience when you are in the presence of you know either the opposite or the same gender and that these are things which could happen to you and an attraction can evolve at a certain stage in your life and uh you need to talk about sexual sexuality about orientation all of those are topics which now have assumed a lot


of those are topics which now have assumed a lot of importance because if we as parents as family members as adults who are around a certain child will not be speaking about it we need to understand that children are still getting all of that information but what will happen is that they will pick it up from sources which may not be the most reliable which will not be the most credible in which information may be presented in ways that could either enhance their curiosity or make them start taking or indulging in Risky behaviors and they would not and they would get more psychologically impacted because their young minds are not fine-tuned or developed enough to be able to process that kind of information but if you have a parent or an adult who is around you who is willing to sit down and talk with you then all of that Curiosity all of those questions are getting addressed at the right stage at the right time which is so crucial and I think right now uh the conversations around good touch


I think right now uh the conversations around good touch and Bad Touch have certainly increased so much because we are so much more attuned to all the situations that are happening around us media reports on so many different um you know instances incidents which have happened with young children with older children as well with adults as well so um parents taking that step is so important and I think schools are also playing a very large role where they have started addressing a lot of these things within the school premises itself and I think what is more important for a parent to keep in mind is that the conversation that you have to have is not a one-time conversation I think that's the first important piece that we always need to keep in mind this is going to be a conversation which you need to have at multiple times those multiple times are going to be based on the age of the child you start with a young child who's even going to a kindergarten where you're going to be talking to the child about


you're going to be talking to the child about touch you will talk to the child about touch in a way that the child can understand and you will have to keep on refining that conversation till the child is going to get into even the senior grades where you're not necessarily talking just about touch but then you're talking about sexuality and orientation and those conversations are going to come in and what is going I'm going to interrupt you doctor I'm so sorry where do you get the tools how does a parent know this because our parents were like kind of a thing right right so how do you get as a nobody teaches these things to us in school that we will need to do this no doctor tells us nobody tells us or how do we get the tools how do we equip ourselves as parents and like you're saying that even at kindergarten all we need told was don't talk to strangers that's all that we were told and you know how do you where do you get the tools


know how do you where do you get the tools like you were saying that you this is how you figure out that there is something wrong with you mentally and you need to figure out that you're you're slipping into depression or you're seeing triggers how do you where do you learn how to be a parent to teach these things several times you know what happens that you know [Music] we should encourage our children I believe but what parents does that it does happen that children a lot of times will start shutting down especially when the child is told that you know but or you know we start becoming rejecting of the child's emotions so as soon as you will say something like that he's never going to come back or she's never going to come back the child is never coming back to you regardless of what the new situation may be and who that person may be they will never be able to feel that you would trust them so while you may be doing a superlative job as a


you may be doing a superlative job as a parent in general this would become the one space that the child may feel that they cannot confide in you and this would become the one space that would trouble them for a very very long time to come and would impact their relationships their adult experiences and their expectations that they have from adults around them in general taking away from their sense of security their sense of trust their belief in their own self because they would always feel that if my parents don't trust me why would the outside world so you're compromising their ability to be able to grow up into becoming hell the Adaptive adults in the future but going back to what your traditional question was that you know how do you equip yourself with the right tools to be able to have those conversations I think the first thing that parents need to do is whoever your pediatrician is they talk to you about Milestones right you need to start utilizing that understanding that your pediatrician is giving you about


understanding that your pediatrician is giving you about the Milestones to start determining that you know okay now is the age of the stage which is coming when my child is growing up and this is now going to be the time when I'm going to have these conversations when you know your child is stepping outside for a very young kid you will have to start talking to them about good touch and Bad Touch at a much earlier age and you will have to talk about it in a very gentle way to say that you know this is so you will have to keep on tweaking that Converse station as per the age of the child over a period of time you may have to make it also gender specific you may have to say especially when the child is going to school um so you have to keep on changing those conversations over a period of time the second thing you need to do is be very aware of what are the conversations happening in school when school May there are conversations happening you


school when school May there are conversations happening you need to use that as your cue to say that okay I need to now go back and ask my child that what was it like for you when a conversation has happened in the school about good touch and Bad Touch understand from your child what did they understand how much did they make sense of it do they have any questions speak about these matters because they themselves are hesitant they're processing it themselves another thing is if there are any viewers who are you know or listeners who are not parents please understand that this responsibility also extends to aunts and uncles you know you if you love your nephew or niece and you're seeing that your sister or brother is not having this conversation with their children listening to this conversation what Dr chipper is saying that talk talk to them because that is how you become a good aunt or a good uncle have you spoken about good parenting Goods Aunt good uncle but parents also face this like


Aunt good uncle but parents also face this like women and men uh a major major issue I'm seeing is of you know I in my office in my Newsroom there are so many young girls and uh you know mostly in newsrooms there are it's it's populated by young women and my generation was always told that oh you could multitask you can do you can manage home as well as work but seems like that led to my generation having a lot of stress and anxiety and none of us want to admit it at least my generation women don't want to admit it that we took on too much and that's impacted on in so many ways you know uh on us because we we think we can do it all absolutely and I think uh you know it just kind of highlights that that iconic poster right behind you you just said we can do it all and the poster says we can do it and I think there's a history to this sister there's a big history to that poster it started out


there's a big history to that poster it started out at a time when there was a significant gender gap it came in at a point in time when women were pushing for equality for rights when they were saying that you know what we too can actually do it we don't need men to just uh stand there and tell us that we are supposed to play a certain type of role or occupy a certain position and handle only certain types of chores we are ourselves pretty strong and we have the ability to be able to do a lot of different things and balance out different roles it was at a point in time when we needed that but what it has done is that it's only ascribed more and more onto the plate of a woman but it's not gotten balanced out by providing her more and more support to be able to take on the additional things that she's taking on and somewhere it's become a very skewed um situation that we are noticing around us these days and I think it's not


around us these days and I think it's not just your generation My Generation even a lot of the younger younger ladies that I continue to work with everyone talks about the fact that how they feel a lot of times unsupported a lot of times not even able to talk about the fact that they are unsupported and that they don't have the space to be able to come out and say that I am stressed because as soon as I say that it becomes about my gender and you will get away with it and you know everyone will come around and try and give you more relaxation and leverages so that you can keep growing and doing well not recognizing that in any case there isn't an equal way in which things are being done and I think that uh somewhere women are expected to be these superheroes you know who have these superpowers who are going to be doing these multiple things at at the same time you go to work but before you go to work you need to ensure everything is lined up at home


you need to ensure everything is lined up at home uh if you are living with your parents then for them if you're with your in-laws then for them if you have children then to take care of them making sure that while you're not there if anyone has any need no one should be able to turn around and tell you so you have to anticipate plan in advance make sure there are resources available at home enough staff enough help to be able to ensure and that is if you can afford that to make sure that that is there to cover up for when you're not going to be available your own self and keep smiling and keep smiling have you noticed doctor that we've all been told not to scowl not to feed or not to give the impression also forget about a man can not look yeah you don't yeah firstly he doesn't need to use lipstick but a woman has to smile through her troubles a man doesn't need to smile through his troubles if he looks stressed out or if


his troubles if he looks stressed out or if he looks uh if he's scowling it's like see what a hard working guy like a manager I'm talking about when a manager works and he doesn't need to smile he doesn't he can look busy all the time but a woman even if she's busy needs to smile needs to look happy because if she doesn't look happy she has poor manners she is angry and a bad boss right and this manifests everywhere mind you even women anchors they need to look in a particular manner TV anchors men it doesn't matter what they look like the same I'm sure is with doctors right like you need to look you need to have better manners when you're dealing with patience as compared to your male doctors who can look busy and say though but a woman needs to have that nurturing thing all the time and that puts pressure all the time on you it does but these are also so reflective of the kind of roles and stereotypes that have


of the kind of roles and stereotypes that have over the years come and gotten associated with being with what being a woman is all about and uh you know it's so uh interesting when you were speaking about uh the workplaces and how you know a man could be a certain way and a woman could be a certain way and the example that was popping up in my head repeatedly was how when a woman snaps in the office it becomes about maybe she's on her cycle and when a man will snap it's like pressure and so you know we have these very different ways in which we even perceive emotional responses or ways in which people are communicating because we ascribe it to certain stereotypes that we have been holding on to a very very long time and one of the expectations that as a result has come on to women is to present themselves in a certain way to uphold themselves in a certain way and to communicate and speak and hold those nurturing roles and be uh


speak and hold those nurturing roles and be uh very pleasant and put together at all times even though you may not be feeling up to it and yes there is a movement which has started happening against that in a way where you know a lot of women have started stepping in and saying that you know if I'm not having a good day I'm not having a good day and if you want to judge me then go ahead you know and do that but I'm not going to be apologetic about this because what that pressure is doing a lot of times it's not just stress this is what is creating a lot of anxiousness it is what is impacting moods it is leading to issues like depression it's causing women a lot of sleepless nights they are feeling they're working so hard they may be putting in a lot of effort but then you're not feeling happy at the end of the day so what's the purpose of it and then you begin to question the larger purpose the larger


you begin to question the larger purpose the larger meaning of what you're doing in the kind of life you're leading and you're almost feeling that you know this is like an endless Road you know a tunnel which does not seem to have any light at the end of it and you constantly feel yourself struggling as a result and that's where mental health related issues tend to Blossom I'm also going to come on to these kovid related issues Charlie because I remember you know you were also covering at that time these uh you know young people losing parents uh you know and both parents sometimes to covid and parents who had no comorbidities sometimes so you know you always thought that parents will live longer like when they were in their 60s maybe mild diabetes maybe mild asthma but they they succumb to covet and some of them some of these young people I know they got no closure because they couldn't even perform the last rights of their parents or they couldn't even they couldn't even see the body


they couldn't even they couldn't even see the body of their parents they were cremated because they themselves were in hospital so this is both young men and women like you know in my introduction I said that depression doesn't hit any class any specific class caste gender anybody so this happened to Men Women everybody that I know too and there was no closure then but many of us tend to think by now get over it because you know but it it doesn't end like that does it there's no closures to some people's grief no there isn't and uh even though in our own diagnostic manuals we may have gone through phases where we have tried to say you know oh yours a good enough time period for you to cope with grief to seeing that there can't be a uh you know time frame associated with it to saying that you know yes there should be a time frame and we've in our own diagnostic uh in our ways of diagnosing that could this be now an adjustment


of diagnosing that could this be now an adjustment disorder could this now be a depressive illness have gone through those processes but I think when we're looking at covid what it has done is it has completely ripped apart whatever resources that people had within themselves and whatever resilience was there to be able to cope with things like loss in grief because it was I don't there was nothing like this which people had ever dealt with dealing with a loss which happens very suddenly in itself is very difficult and dealing with a loss which is happening suddenly and is happening on Mars is extremely extremely traumatic for people and what we're seeing right now is almost a traumatic kind of a response towards that sense of having lost people not having been able to have those conversations with them before they went not having been able to do their last rights in the way that we have all been born and brought up with knowing that that is also a part of our heritage our


that that is also a part of our heritage our culture and what that entire process of doing the rituals and all always does for us is it that's what allows us to go through that closure process you know it's a healing it's a it has its own healing process associated with it sure uh that Community grieving together with the family who has lost someone is what allows us to be able to also feel a lot of sense of support none of that happened covert was a period where you could not have multiple people occupying the same space you could not even have your entire family how do you cope how do you feel supported you feel isolated alone in your entire experience and that is what has ensured that somewhere people have not been able to necessarily fully overcome their sense of grief yes right now where we are at today with life moving towards that normalcy that we were used to three years ago changing the ways in which people are looking at things it's leading them to be able to


looking at things it's leading them to be able to let go of some of those experiences but that sense of loss is not getting filled up yeah so it is not but still they are going through the disaster you know if you talk somebody after so long it's a like do you know what has happened during Delta wave everybody talk about selection they wanted to talk it was like a disaster yeah I mean I met with people like for example we were talking about grief right like I know of a bride just right at that time she was like I'm going to get married regardless I'm not postponing this because of various reasons but she never got that lenga pen uh and you know she had to compromise at that time she was ready to do it because she wanted to they had a certain timeline when they wanted to get married have babies and pay their emis and you know all those things you have you work for with the timeline right you didn't get that and she can't even talk


you didn't get that and she can't even talk about it because it's oh that this is a rich person problem people lost their loved ones you know so this rich people problem many people don't seek help to go to a counselor psychologist psychiatrist firstly nobody knows you were saying when it's a children it should go to your pediatrician or your general practitioner who will tell you that yes you're sliding in and is it a rich person problem you know I think it's very uh unfortunate that we end up classifying things in our own mind you know this is a rich person's problem this is not a problem which should be looked at if it's a problem it's stressing you out it's troubling you it's giving you sleepless nights it's preoccupying your thought process it's impacting your functioning please go and talk to someone it is a problem regardless of you know whether it seems like a problem to someone around you or not it's a problem for you we have to learn to


it's a problem for you we have to learn to start prioritizing our own selves and our own mental health it's compromising your well-being it's a large enough issue then right don't judge your own self because that's where the Judgment process is starting we're judging our own selves we're giving the right to everyone around us also to judge us because they can see through the discomfort that you're having and being able to even talk about the fact that you're troubled by something which could be considered not that big a grave or situation and if you feel that the people around you are not being able to understand or respond to you in the way that you require for them to then reaching out to an expert is extremely important and you're very right in saying that you know people a lot of times will not know who to reach out to uh the reason they don't know is because they don't know what the differences are between the different uh experts who are available I would still say that


uh experts who are available I would still say that you know even if you're an adult you can always talk to a GP if you don't know your internal medicine doctor if you don't know who you could be speaking with but otherwise if you feel that it's a situation which um if there are situations in your life which are troubling you which you are not being able to let go of or reach some sort of an understanding or solution of talking to a psychologist could be helpful now psychologists are of different types um you've got people who are who've done their masters who are counselors or psychologists in general who we call them and they are typically trained to work uh with concerns which made me say health related relationships related when you're looking at more clinical related issues that's where clinical psychologists come in and in India the qualifying degree for them would be at least an M Phil in Psychology and some of them may have also done further their doctoral studies around it as well and uh


their doctoral studies around it as well and uh so you would then reach to a clinical psychologist now you may not be able to figure out who may be the right person still go to any one of them a psychiatrist would work with the clinical problems but they would utilize medications to treat those problems so if you have a depressive illness you have a bipolar disorder you have a schizoaffective or a schizophrenia or an anxiety disorder when you've reached a diagnosis a lot of these may require a medical intervention because like I mentioned that mental health related illnesses have a strong biological component which can only be addressed with medications that the psychiatrist will do the therapists or the psychologists the clinical psychologists they will all be working in parallel usually with the psychiatrist on the same problems but doing the talk therapy see a dog I've noticed that you can take a child to a therapist now a major major issue see with Modern Magic medication uh people are living longer so you


Magic medication uh people are living longer so you have a huge problem uh on our hands with uh with you know parents grandparents living long which is very nice but there are aging related issues because of one again kovid related because they were living apart suddenly that link was broken you couldn't visit your parents you couldn't visit your grandparents they were isolated living for almost a year living on their own right they could meet with their children they could meet with their grandchildren during that and then there were issues like you know older people used to go for satsang or they had those those support structures where they would go to the neighborhood uh you know place where they know their yoga yeah group therapies which we used to they were great stress Busters right now depression sets in but when they had no issues till they were 70 75 suddenly when they are you know 75 80 they have mild dementia related issues they have this anger related issues because they feel they were neglected right they know that they were neglected


were neglected right they know that they were neglected for a certain reason which couldn't be so Resort but these are manifesting but because of their age you can't take them to the doctor they will not go they will not admit it firstly that they need some help and young professionals don't have the time well the solution of course lies in being able to sit down and have conversations because the garage situation right and if there is a clinical problem then it needs to be addressed clinically I understand that the elderly a lot of times are resistant to engaging in the conversations I've seen it with my own grandparents so yeah you know I and I I work in this space and despite that the challenge was there and uh but then if it is a medical issue which is emerged then it needs to be dealt with through the psychiatrist and if there is a clear-cut depression or a clear-cut anxiety or some other illness an insomnia which is their dementia like changes which are happening then


is their dementia like changes which are happening then the consults need to start happening with the doctors at least but the second aspect is that you need to start talking to your parents sit down have that difficult conversation they will be resistant they will not want to engage in that interaction uh there may be a lot of cognitive errors like we say you know a problem may be getting magnified in their mind they may have developed a tunnel vision on an issue they may not be willing to look at uh the different aspects of the situation while those errors may be there in the way they are thinking or looking at a situation it's only if you're going to sit down and have that conversation with them not once but be willing to engage a few times I do feel that that barrier of resistance does break at the end of the day for them meaning and purpose comes through their family seeing their children engaging with their grandchildren the more they are able to do that the more they feel much


are able to do that the more they feel much more happier a lot more relaxed they do need to have their routines and a push will be required to kind of encourage them to say that you know up restart confidence also goes down because you haven't stepped out you're not sure will I be able to do that work for a kilometer that I used to do previously so the solution is to tell them there are 100 meters but yes as the younger person around them you will have to engage and invest because they have also engaged and invested in us at a time when they do not have the time true that's true that's so true to have the patience and you know uh I know that I used to get irritated that I'll come at 8 pm why do you keep asking what time will you come or oh you've come at nine didn't you say you you'd come tomorrow you know those kind of things but then I realize as I'm aging that I make the same mistakes I


I'm aging that I make the same mistakes I didn't have the patience then I just hope my children have the patience with me do you feel that uh do you see yourself becoming the parent that used to irritate you when you were young yeah that's true ma'am but you know most of the time whenever I see uh you know a parent or old age parents so it's like you know I always talk them a lot I love do a lot of sharing a lot of caring it's like you know they wanted to talk they want company at that point of stage so it's like you you know they want key that says because we sometimes we also take them granted you know like if they come under older people this is one thing I wanted to talk to you about also older people falling for scams right uh because what has happened is that everybody has a cell phone uh there was no need at some point of time to teach your parent how to use Google and how to use uh internet how


to use Google and how to use uh internet how to do Instagram but now what has happened is somebody gives a call and says give your OTP they give the OTP yeah this is happening so you don't uh so this how to how to tell your children to watch out for scams on and to you know the safety part of of using the cell phone because everybody gave their kids cell phone for safety reasons at some point of time and then they gave them devices during covid but then there's no safety so they could be watching and your eight year old kid could be watching porn and your 70 year old parent can be giving the OTP on the phone how do you tell this how do you do you need do you need an outsider to teach this to your kids and you need an outsider to tell your parents I wish we could have Outsiders doing so much more but I mean outside I mean is do you need to tell your your therapist that please tell my parent or


tell your your therapist that please tell my parent or please tell my kid no no you don't need that at all you know I think what you do need is um becoming more aware you know I think that we're so stuck in our day-to-day routines a lot of times we're not switching off from our work or from the tasks that we feel we need to do that it takes away from our awareness of what may be going on with other people who are there within the home so you are there you're physically present but a lot of times you're not necessarily psychologically engaged to their experiences that's where the Gap starts happening that's where you start missing out on the cues that I need to provide a certain information or I need to provide a certain uh scaffolding or a sense or create some sort of a security mechanism to be able to protect both the young people as well as the elderly who are who are either living with me or may not be living with me as well


me or may not be living with me as well and it's only going to be if you are fully there in the moments that you are spending and you're not preoccupied with other things that you will be able to start noticing these things and that's the first change that I think people need to start doing and what do you need to do for that start switching off your phones when you are at home we feel that the whole world is going to collapse and crash you know our phone off I'm not available God knows what catastrophe is going to happen but nothing really happens I can't meet you in the eye because I'm guilty as charged it's true you know uh it's I I have seen even in restaurants people sitting and not looking and this used to I used to see this abroad I never used to see this in India but in India yes now it's there everywhere and it's not just in urban India it's a rural phenomenon too it is it very much is because um


too it is it very much is because um the phones the media the social media everything is infiltrated and penetrated Our Lives to such an extent that we feel incapacitated if we did not have these around us we have lost our ability to have fun and to be able to spend time with our own selves we've lost our ability to be able to uh spend time doing activities which do not involve social media right we are only looking at gadgets a lot of the times in fact a lot of times if I ask young people I ask that you know okay what are the hobbies that you currently have most of them are completely at a loss because what the what their hobbies are are either playing on their PlayStations and Xboxes or they're on their phones on their Instagrams or their Twitters and Facebooks whatever and numerous social media platforms which have come up and uh they're not necessarily engaging with the real world people in the real world the same people that they are texting with they would


the same people that they are texting with they would hesitate to be able to have an in-person conversation now what are we doing we're taking away our own skill sets we are losing our abilities to be able to build those relationships conversations we can't have those conversations we feel ill-equipped in group settings yes and that's it's not just children I'm noticing this in in older generation people also where especially after covet you know getting together four to six people in a room don't have patience anymore to have conversations after a while it gets the noise of four people talking in a room gets to you you want to go back home you don't want to talk because it's it's become too much doctor I just wanted to know this what is the role of social media if I talk about Instagram also Twitter also on Twitter also what uh what we see that you know the kind of tweet you have done it's like you know come hits and if we talk about Instagram also it's like you know they filter their


about Instagram also it's like you know they filter their photos and uh they are completely different so how it is affecting a kind of anxiety or what exactly it is no no no it's not they are looking Shalini I think what is happening is that the person themselves right I've used suppose I've used a filter when I look at the mirror so it's not what other people are saying what you yourself are feeling because when you look at the mirror you're you're not actually different yeah you're not as thin yeah you're not as your complexion is not fair because you people lighten their skin so it's not what other people are saying so much yeah how it it affects basically so I think uh their self-worth May problem because people are actually making themselves look taller I can understand you know you want to look thinner or uh more uh voluminous in some respect but making yourself taller that's never going to happen but this is happening now so how it is going


this is happening now so how it is going to affect what kind of thing anxiety it gives so I think there are two three aspects that we need to understand that there is a lot of pressure that people are feeling that they need to conform to a certain type of image a certain type of sometimes body image a certain type of way in which they're being perceived on the outside by the rest of the world okay that's what you were trying to say okay and when the perceptions are uh being directed in your own mind on account of what is the kind of response that you're getting from people you start wanting to change it now what that does is that you're bringing about a discrepancy between what is your real self what is the virtual self that entire gap which is beginning to emerge between the real and the virtual self is going to lead to a lot of depletion in your own ability to feel good about who you are you feel unsure about your own self it leads


are you feel unsure about your own self it leads to a lot of doubts about um am I really this good enough what would happen if I were to step into the real world and when people actually see me for who I am so you start thinking that I am not going to be accepted by people on the outside so it's going to lead to a lot of avoidance of social situations of not wanting to present yourself for just who you are it leads to people to then start thinking about doing procedures for their own selves cosmetic surgeries because they feel that that is going to be the better way to look that is the more acceptable way and if you've ended up having some sort of Greater recognition on account of these changed ways in which you're presenting yourself on these online platforms you feel that yes that is what is actually more acceptable and it's leading to a false belief system where you are becoming rejecting of your own self impacts your sense of self your worthiness your esteem can


your sense of self your worthiness your esteem can make you feel extremely anxious can actually impact your moods make you feel lowly to things like depression a lot of people become extremely preoccupied with the thought process successes they may find themselves constantly thinking about things you know what is going to be my next post how do I ensure I keep looking like this what am I going to do when I'm going to step out how do I make sure that you know I'm not judged and that's the preoccupation with such sins so your entire thought process you start seeing is Shifting it will impact your functionality it will affect the ways in which you're engaging with people your relationships your work everything so the deleterious impact that something like this can have is so large and which is why with a lot of young people when we work with them uh one of the two of the things that we talk about one is about media literacy which is that you need to start raising questions about the media content that


need to start raising questions about the media content that is coming at you and start understanding what is the source of the information what could be the purpose behind it what could there be a different way of looking at the same thing what are the values that are being put forward by that media message but simultaneously we are also talking to them about their sense of self their self-concepts and how do you need to strengthen those and how do you start learning to lean into Who You Are as a person build acceptance for who you are recognized like especially like now you know these online dating sites and all yeah because the left swipe right swipe business which is going on many people or young when men and women think that they have to conform to those stereotypes they take medication they take supplements because they need to look in a particular manner I was speaking to a a Gym trainer who said that he knows of a couple of incidents which have happened where you know they fixed trainer exercise previous night


where you know they fixed trainer exercise previous night they may have had a late night but then they are not because they have paid the trainer already or they've paid the gym they need to reach the gym and they need to exercise so on three hours of sleep they come to the exercise to they come to exercise now to do that they take a Red Bull or they take you know something to keep them awake to exercise and then those heart attacks those things are happening in the gym these are real problems which used to happen to celebrities earlier it's happening to ordinary middle class homes where young people just because of these online because most of the dating is happening online do you see that as a real problem which is happening now a lot of the dating is happening online but what's also happening is that there is so much access to information about how you can do these things that people are indiscriminately relying on it not recognizing that everything that is done there is one a logic


that everything that is done there is one a logic behind it there would be some sort of a scientific thought process that needs to be associated with any sort of a practice so if you are going to be taking a Red Bull and you've just had three hours of sleep what is it really doing to your body you're not even raising that question inside you whereas when someone may be working uh you know a doctor is working with a celebrity or you know a physical health practitioner is working with a celebrity and they would be utilizing certain mechanisms they would have a full thought process around it but you're not aware of that thought process you just pick the behavior and you're randomly implementing it on yourself being experimental and then which is leading to dility risk consequences and which is where media literacy comes in you need to start understanding the thought process behind what is being done why is it being done stop following people blindly reduce the comparisons start building your own self there is goodness in every


start building your own self there is goodness in every individual there is a positive in every individual everyone has strengths there will always be areas of development or Improvement that we will all have throughout our life but that doesn't take away from who you are and you need to be able to lean into that and I do believe very strongly that people need to start building interests outside of the virtual world we have to engage with life we need to start doing a conscious digital detox so that we can expose ourselves in a very conscious manner to other things there's a lot which is there out there to experience I'm going to have you coming back back to the studio to discuss with me about social media I think that's a whole different realm and how you know all of us need to learn the tools to cope with you know the negativity that comes in from uh overexposure to social media of course it has its good points and uh but how uh how we can cope with this new realm that we are all


can cope with this new realm that we are all entering and especially we haven't even gone into you know the rural areas and the problems that it's having because they're not trained at least some of us are equipped with a certain education where we are you know we know how to handle it so I'm going to have to come back thank you so much for your time thank you so much it was a real pleasure being here with you thank you for listening in to Ani podcast with Smitha prakash please like or subscribe in whichever platform you have listened to this namaste foreign [Music]


if you look at the history Jews lived in India for 2000 years about 900 Indian soldiers are buried in the soil of Israel they fought before Israel was there with the Brits against the Turks so there are many links there were a few visits high-level visits of Israeli presidency Israeli Prime Minister Sharon the Indian president to Israel but the game changer was probably the visit of Prime Minister Modi to Israel in 2017. I've served as Ambassador in quite a few countries and and Diplomat in more others I think India by far has the most popular supports towards Israel our cooperation India and Israel Corporation counterterrorism as I said before is very wide very developed from intelligence gathering to Special Forces to reaction forces so there are it's very popular here I hear it every place everywhere everyone speaks to me about it they're coming out with the Indian version of uh of them Namaste jaihin welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash today I spoke with Israel's ambassador to


prakash today I spoke with Israel's ambassador to India now gilon it was about india-israel relations everybody knows that it's on a very sound footing from top down onwards People to People contact uh on everything it is a relationship which is more of a partnership now uh considering that there was a time that even on our passports it said you know not valid for Israel we didn't even recognize Israel formally we didn't have diplomatic relations with Israel from that era which was in the you know Cold War era from that we have really come forward to partnership at so many levels but this interview was more about just india-israel relations he spoke about his uh his growing up in a family where there was a holocaust Survivor in his grandparent and uh the reality of Israel today where uh it it speaks to other countries from a position of strength yet it's foreign policy is more flexible than it has ever been it's talking to countries which even don't formally acknowledge the existence of Israel so


even don't formally acknowledge the existence of Israel so there's a lot that it has in common with India when it comes to a neighborhood which is volatile which uh which is hostile even uh in in not accepting Israel's existence India is fighting a two and a half front War where are our similarities and where are our differences watch or listen to this very interesting conversation Mr kilon thank you very much for speaking with us um I'd like to begin by asking you you know uh recently the Indian foreign minister he said that when he was asked about why India Israel relations aren't as robust and not as thriving as they used to be or they could have not used to be as they could have been what were the impediments uh he said that uh we could have benefited from the ties but uh once you come back out of vote Bank politics your foreign policies also get impacted gone are the days when wood Bank politics dominated National interest uh I think what what he was saying was that you


I think what what he was saying was that you know that at some point of time india-israel relations could have been more than uh they were and now we are on this on this trajectory upward trajectory how was this comment viewed in Israel I think it's probably reflecting the the situation as it was if going back to our relations Israel was established a few months after uh India and David minguri on our first prime minister so India of the Indian Indian movement as the sister movement as a role model he himself was practicing yoga and was is very close if you go to his house in in the negative desert where he lived his last years you see the picture of Gandhi on on his bedroom wall so for him by the way after the the first countries to recognize Israel then were the Soviet Union of the taiyossr and the U.S and he said once India will support us we closed the full cycle and it took another couple of years only 1950 and then in 53 we


of years only 1950 and then in 53 we put a consulate in Mumbai not non-reci protocol so India did not do the same and of course Consulate in Mumbai is import Bombay of the time is important but um it doesn't do all the functions so we we did have relations over the years we were cooperating especially in defense very significantly even without full diplomatic full diplomatic race and sense of embassies and everything then in 92 India together with a big wave in the world after collapse of Soviet Union a Cold War ending and the Madrid conference peace conference in 91 so there was a slight uh I think change of countries towards Israel India joined the race and they were there were a few visit high level visits of Israeli presidency Israeli Prime Minister Sharon the Indian president to Israel but the game changer was probably the visit of Prime Minister Modi to Israel in 2017 and then a few months later in January 18 Netanyahu coming here because I think you know this was the dehyphenation basis


I think you know this was the dehyphenation basis of saying there is the Palestinian issue but this cannot be the thing that is representing our relations with Israel it has to be treated separately from Israel and he defined also the relation strategic partnership at that visit we defined together and you know I've served as Ambassador in quite a few countries and and Diplomat in more others and I think India by far has the most popular supports towards Israel if you speak to people in India my experience I visited already now I did the head count after concluding now a year I visited about 11 12 different uh States here and you know I'm trying to go around because I understand that delhi's Delhi is not India um and every place I go I hear a lot of admiration towards Israel really it's very you know for different people from high level and for low level from all all kinds of people and what Prime Minister Modi did together with Netanyahu at the time they really made it now a


Netanyahu at the time they really made it now a top top down it came from the political level the same message that came from the they met in the middle both messages of the people wanting to have more relations with this it was also this uh shying away from the actuality shying away from the fact that we needed each other or rather India um uh you know now India is saying that it's one of the trusted and valued Partners not just just not just a relationship but like a partnership I think it took time to reach uh this stage right yes I took time and the big shift as I said 2017 because the pictures of the two prime ministers together on the sea in Israel those were very iconic pictures iconic pictures sent a message to people you know if you look at the history Jews lived in India as equal as Citizens and no different than any other minority that so many minorities and different religions in this country so just lived here for two thousand years and also later on


here for two thousand years and also later on came New Waves of Jews from uh we call them baghdadi but they came from the Middle East in general not only from Iraq and they were very also very successful in business you look at the in in Mumbai the Sassoon family for example there are few very strong families and also in Bollywood the first actresses were Jewish baghdadi women and they were very strong here so you would think that naturally will continue 900 about 900 Indian soldiers are buried in the soil of Israel they fought before Israel was there with the Brits against the Turks so there are many links that should have made us and I understand what the foreign minister Jay Shankar is speaking about of course the one of the considerations of of India was to get support on the Pakistani issue hoping that if they take aside they will be supported I think that also this was there was a disillusion on that and also the need of India is a very strong country today it's


need of India is a very strong country today it's not the same country that it was when it was established I think it's a self-assured strong country and can have its own independent foreign policy without being afraid of what others would say but now that you mentioned Pakistan I have to get on to that Pakistan is one of the countries which doesn't recognize Israel even now in 2022 but there are reports that a Pakistani and an Indonesian delegation was in Israel recently do we see a you know a recognition of the reality and Pakistan opening uh diplomatic ties with Israel in the near future I must say that our policy from day one was speaking to whoever is ready to speak to us we never said no to anyone our problem is that many especially Muslim countries not only but especially refuse to speak to us they refuse to have any connections any and Pakistan is one of these countries so every time they are like track two track three you know people some of them not living in living in in


people some of them not living in living in in the in their own countries anymore are ready to come and speak as people to people we are very happy to speak to people I think that dialogue is very important I don't think that in the near future we would have full diplomatic relations or in the diplomatic relations with Pakistan and by the way not because of us necessarily but because of Pakistan they are refusing and also I think Pakistan is also uneasy with India and Israel cooperating on defense because because their entire thing is that you know it's being used in Kashmir and if they were to recognize open diplomatic ties with Israel then they cannot do that because ideologically they are aligned with with the whole issue of Kashmir does that make sense no I I and for me as a diplomat I know that diplomacy is used to influence if you want to influences today what is their influence of countries who have no really diplomatic relations with Israel be it Pakistan beat other countries


relations with Israel be it Pakistan beat other countries so if you want to influence the country you have to have relations because at the end of the day it's like people you have to have a relationship in order to listen to the other side or you know you have to have something the other side wants from you and when there are no relations there is nothing their influence over Israel or the ability to say to Israel please do this don't do that it's not existent just not existent yes and in fact uh you know last year they even said that India States sponsored continuing widespread surveillance and spying operations is in clear breach of global Norms of responsible State behavior and this was in reaction to some media reports to say that India was using spy technology which was which they got from Israel to spy on uh then uh prime minister Imran Khan so that that rankles them that we are India and Israel are cooperating on cyber security and they feel that that that technology is being used against Pakistan I can


that that technology is being used against Pakistan I can tell you that we are cooperating over everything really there are very few I don't know of any barricades to our cooperation it's very intimate it's in all Fields it's in intelligence in counter-terrorism in in in everything in every field so this is part of our intimacy and our excellent relations uh you know another element that I'm I'm very proud to mention is the fact that adani won the Haifa Port Israel as only two Mediterranean Port parts and we are in a sense an island because our neighborhood is not a friendly neighborhood so our exit to the Mediterranean is crucial for us so we have two ports one of them is now in the hands of Adan it's a strategic asset for Israel very highly strategic and the fact that it's put in Indian hands he's paying money it's not in that but you are ready to deposit a strategic asset in India and hence for me it's a wonderful wonderful signal right


for me it's a wonderful wonderful signal right but uh you do get it that you're talking about uh you know it's something that we have in common I guess India and uh and Israel that we have we are in a neighborhood which is hostile uh and you are also aware that you know India is defense experts have said this that India is fighting a two and a half front War so Pakistan and China encircling India we have these two neighbors uh and they're hostile and they are uncomfortable with India doing this like what you're talking about it doesn't bother them that if we share water technology we share uh technology on drip irrigation or on food security and stuff like that but if as soon as it comes to anti-terror operations military and Espionage related issues it bothers these two countries does it at all uh come up in conversations in the security establishment in Israel no I think that the decision was taken to do full full cooperation with India as we have with very few countries in