people you know you this after all we're supposed to have a cataclysm in 2020 so ah and when you even citizenship when you start reasoning with people ask them saying okay tell me do you not have a criteria of citizenship do you do you not use language or some people use religion people use language they use religion uh they use education some of them even use income some use ethnicity so when you tell people saying look I've reflect on your citizenship practice I mean what do you do so often what happens is ah you know and and see that's why the Battle of narratives is very powerful you read the bulk of international papers especially the anglosphere papers but all of them how many of them tell you 370 was a temporary profession I challenge you to show me one they don't is written there in bold letters in capital letters in the Constitution but then that's because India itself didn't put across that point of view right listen I can put across something if you have shut


I can put across something if you have shut your ears to it no amount of hammering away at it it's not see when when Kashmir was being discussed Pakistan used to keep saying plebiscite plebiscite plebiscite till till the 90s that word plebiscite kept hammering it was you know that it is a disputed issue it till India's narrative started being heard unless you allowed and you impose your narrative you don't get heard in the world no I I completely agree with you Smitha so I I try not to be loud I try to get my narrative across in a elegant and effective way maybe a Time sharper than people may want but I I accept your point that we need to get our narrative across and that is exactly what we are trying to do in foreign policy but I also put it to you sometimes that I feel that I'm talking to an audience which is deliberately deaf that they do not want to hear sometimes they do not want


do not want to hear sometimes they do not want to absorb sometimes that and and there is a very strong bias I mean let's let's be frank about it you know newspapers there are newspapers I don't want to go into names who will publish something absolutely ridiculous on one side and you say Okay I want to counter it they say no no hang on a moment I'm busy doing a fact check on what you are saying so we saw this bias very very clearly over the last four years I think it in fact I expected to if anything grew as the election comes closer because I I don't think uh you know this is without a political political political Direction and purpose it's a domestic politics playing a part domestic politics you know it could be domestic politics it could be covet it could be you know it could be different business playing its part also it could it could be look I'm not a conspiracy theorist okay I'm what I'm explaining to you is actually politics at


what I'm explaining to you is actually politics at work okay it doesn't have to be conspiracy at work even there are about why why is it why is it difficult to uh to understand that there are ideologies and political forces outside India very similar to those in India and the two are working hand in club I mean I'm putting a perfectly Common Sense proposition before you and part of the problem is when political forces in India are not doing so well uh electorally they tend to kind of summon up this this support system if you would or the echo chamber or call it what you want they are the congress party is saying that uh that in that the Indian government is the Modi government is defensive reactive when it comes to China that neither Mr Modi nor you even mention China you just say Eastern neighbor hello please then then they must have some problem understanding words beginning with the c please look at everything I've said hmm that's not true and what about this thing that they say that


true and what about this thing that they say that uh almost 1000 square kilometers has gone and the foreign minister is not facing facts not telling us this truth in Parliament no look uh I I think they are deliberately misrepresenting uh the situation I give you two very specific examples of that you remember that ho Hala which happened on a bridge you know they were building a bridge in pangong so yeah when did that area actually come under Chinese control yeah I've seen that you said that it is long back I'll tell you when it came the Chinese first came there 1958 and Chinese captured it in October 1962. now you're going to blame Modi government in 2023 for constructing a bridge with the Chinese capture 1962. and you don't have the honesty to say that is where it happened or let me give you another example you know uh these border villages now there were border Villages which have come up in areas which the Chinese actually you know long Jew there was a


the Chinese actually you know long Jew there was a clash and uh it's not a secret you know at that time it was hotly debated in India in the parliament in the media so what happens you do the smoke and mirrors you know say oh there's something happening here it's almost like 1962 never happened it was like you know we should be I I let me give you a very very uh a different example everybody say you know we should be having our troops up there we should be building border infrastructure hello why didn't you build that border infrastructure I just look at the budget or the Border infrastructure during the Modi period the budget has gone up five times you know till till 2014 roughly it was three thousand four thousand crores was was the budget today it is 14 000 crores if you look at the uh the roads which are built you look at the bridges that are built they have doubled or tripled you look at the tunnels which are taking place


you look at the tunnels which are taking place this comment is serious about border infrastructure whereas we know the underlying thinking earlier was you know let's leave it like that then the Chinese can't come inside which meant you have no intention of contesting them when they came so you know I find it very thick that uh you know look I don't think personally I would get into a Blame Game you know what happened in 62 happened but if you now want to whitewash all that and say everything happened only in 2020. I you know I have to call you out no so you're fortifying the border the boundary uh India China so does that make China now the biggest threat to India are we in a state of of a quasi-war-like situation conflict-like situation where are we no no I I first of all I'm not using the word we fortifying it I think we are legitimately building a border infrastructure because they have built the robotic infrastructure in my view we should have


the robotic infrastructure in my view we should have done it 25 years ago again we are reactive that means no no not at all look they are the bigger economy I mean what am I going to do as a smaller economy I'm going to sort of go pick a fight with a bigger economy or another question of reactive question having common sense so secondly please bear in mind one thing we had an agreement that you're not supposed to bring military to the uh uh to the to the Border in large numbers so by that logic of yours I should be the first to break the agreement why not why should I because it doesn't make look please understand why are we always the ones not breaking in agreement and it's always the other side breaking the agreement I I think you need you need to sort of take a very okay no no no no no considered view of this okay we don't re why do we reach agreements we reach agreements because it is in our interest to stabilize a


because it is in our interest to stabilize a border or a situation okay it's not out of love and affection uh and sentiment that you do it's it's called calculation and Common Sense okay or agreements with China were reached in 1993-96 I'm not even getting into which government Etc I I think I try to avoid this this whole debate okay you know I don't like in foreign policy maybe it is because I've been myself so long in this field I don't like to necessarily say these people were right on those people are wrong I don't don't think it serves the nation well okay but if I do find that others are playing a political game where everything is being blamed on the present dispensation an entire history is being whitewashed I think the history has to come out okay now on uh the the question of breaking the agreement or not breaking the agreement generally countries as a rule sensible countries do not because what do you need most in international if you have a reputation as


need most in international if you have a reputation as a country which breaks agreement what do you think is the worth of your agreement that is China where have they kept the agreement with any country look no no hello from Pakistan for that matter from 1993 1990 okay no okay no forget bullet from 93 96 till 2020 was that agreement observed or not so how can you say you know the agreement is not worth a piece of paper and nothing all agreements must be they took excites in 1962-62 between they took akshar chain between 1958 and 1962. so if you didn't need agreements why did you sign them I mean you went in 1988 I mean Rajiv Gandhi went to Beijing in 1988 correct okay did you signed agreements in 93 96 I don't think signing those agreements was wrong I I disagree with you I mean and this is not a political point I'm making okay I think those agreements were signed because at that time we needed to stabilize the water and they


time we needed to stabilize the water and they did stabilize the Border please also note that so this idea suggestion of yours that people sign and compulsively break the next day that's not true hmm now why can't we not why can we not come to an agreement on where is the boundary where how many rounds of talks and it doesn't it's been non-conclusive because when people are the the claims when any other country's claims are not reasonable you will not come to agreement I mean you and I can come to an agreement if I make claims on you which are not reasonable but you will concede it because 25 rounds have happened you have to look at you know what is what is being discussed as well no right okay so look you know if I were to sum up the China thing I mean please do not you know buy this this whole uh I would say again I use this word this this narrative that somewhere government is on the defensive you know somewhere we are being


on the defensive you know somewhere we are being accommodated I mean I ask people if we were being accommodative who sent the Indian army to the lse didn't send them Narendra Modi Center okay we have today the largest peacetime deployment in our history on the China border and we are keeping troops there at a huge cost with great effort we have increased our infrastructure spending on the border five times in this comment so now tell me who's the defensive accommodative person in fact the question you should ask is who's actually telling the truth who's depicting things accurately who's playing footsie with history I think those are the questions which should be asked okay let me go to Pakistan and there's a number of people who are now expressing serious concern that here is a nuclear nation which is on the verge of an economic collapse if that happens it's in our neighborhood are we ready the influx of people who might come in into our country how do we deal with this situation where


our country how do we deal with this situation where this country could collapse no I I think you know uh Pakistan's future is largely determined by Pakistan's actions and by Pakistan's choices I mean nobody reaches a difficult situation uh sort of suddenly and without cause so it is for them to find a way out our relationship today is not one you know where we can be relevant directly to that process if I were to for example compare it to Sri Lanka which is a very different relationship which Sri Lanka still there is a lot of Goodwill in this country there's there's naturally a neighbor's concern somebody but there's also a feeling look you know we have to have them to get through this tomorrow if something happens to some other neighbor that would be the case as well but you know the you know what the sentiment in this country is about Pakistan yeah you know you were talking about these concentric circles when you said the neighborhood and then there's the second uh one of the most


and then there's the second uh one of the most dramatic achievements of your foreign policy has been uh India's Newfound status and reach out uh to the to the UAE to the Islamic World To The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia that's been quite an achievement when was that decision taken to reach out because otherwise it all that one heard was that OIC has something to say on Kashmir that was the maximum that one heard even though there was this large Indian people of Indian origin living in the Middle East I would say I started hearing it first soon after I became foreign secretary so it had been early 2015. it is possible that the Prime Minister may have had some thoughts and discussed it with other people before I came back to Delhi I can't I can't watch for it I'm glad you brought that up because if you were to ask me in 10 years give me two three examples of some big changes which have happened in our in our policy I would certainly put or change relationship


our policy I would certainly put or change relationship with the gulf a very very high up there on the list ah Why didn't it happen earlier uh my own sense we want a very very honest answer is I don't think people were strategically I think they you know when you have a boat Bank mentality uh you actually you you're not serious about foreign policy and uh I would say operationalizing it for you it's like a slogan that they are with us or you know uh so we kind of treated it as that's a place that you know that we get a petrol energy from there there's a big Community out there and the rest of it was like a like a ah like a distant you know uh a Goodwill uh which you needed for your political vote Bank calculations I think when you got a different government which said we are you know we we actually want something deeper more strategic with full elements a full spectrum relationship we have the ability today to deliver on lot of issues of your


ability today to deliver on lot of issues of your concern as well uh we are see you know part of it one of the reasons why the gulf looks at us the gulf sees today's India as much more credible than the idea of 10 years ago and you know as they say that's in spite of India having a right-wing government now I would say you know that's that's why you need to think of this kind of labels you ask people in the Gulf do you prefer prime minister Narendra Modi or any of his producers I'm willing to take a bet with you every one of the gulf countries would say I prefer the Prime Minister Modi why I think they think he's a more serious person uh he is a person who makes who's more credible who's who's actually broad-based that relationship he's done more for the relationship than everybody else and you know I I must once I I tell you very honestly uh I I was once at a conference in the gulf and I had some friends


a conference in the gulf and I had some friends from across the parliament trail with me and uh this issue came up and the person from the Gulf actually and this was like maybe 2018-19 he said you know these guys he's looking at me he said they've done more in four years than you guys did in 40. that's the kind of image that is in that part of the world is Kashmir on the table now it used to be I know is Kashmir on the table when you deal with uh countries in West Asia now what do you mean on the table do they speak about it do they ask you about it I mean look Kashmir is part of India I mean that that's it it was always a part of India but after the abrogation there was a Pakistani up the ante does that matter at all to these countries it doesn't come up in any of my conversations it doesn't come up okay I'm going to go on to these new Partnerships okay the new Partnerships


to these new Partnerships okay the new Partnerships that are happening you know the quad the I2 U2 India SEO India asean all these which are happening the opposition tends to say that though India is now partnering in all these groupings where is it going it's going well it's going up it's going good so what's the problem that that these are just talk shops and these are places where uh nothing gets done actually that India doesn't this whole thing about you know vishwa Guru and things where India is just posturing listen the opposition has to say things no they are opposition why would why would that be the basis for any serious question on your part so where where are we headed in as far as G20 is concerned uh it's become a people's business are we talking G20 no they're very different so I2 U2 breaks SEO look at the number of Partnerships that we have now okay ah all right very good let's stop there hmm why do we have so many


stop there hmm why do we have so many Partnerships answer because we get along with so many people how are we able to manage different kinds of Partnerships maybe because we're good at it maybe because they see value in US are they delivering things well it depends on them take quad for instance definitely quad has delivered uh on on a number of issues unlikely to deliver on many more in the case of I2 U2 it has just started but already there are projects on food security and renewable energy which have come out of it in some cases like bricks which by the way was not started recently it has a old history they are not meant to be necessarily translated into specific outcomes you know often they they express a collective position on a set of issues so I think it depends on on uh The Forum concerned I think you can't Club all of them it's not a one-size-fits-all but if I I mean as I said the opposition will say what it will but you please go out there


say what it will but you please go out there in the world I've just come back today from Australia yeah you know people regard quad as probably the most important foreign you know strategic foreign policy development in the last 20 years yesterday you were in Sydney I mean you just were in Australia Today you met with Senator Chuck Schumer and there's this whole talk that you know India has moved so close to the Western Bloc that our position which was Centrist with non-alignment no longer exists is that over uh well people who say that must have been on a holiday through January when we had 120 countries mainly from the global South engaging Us in what I think was probably the largest such exercise going on in the world and yes we have very good relations with the US generally with the best I don't think there's any reason for us to be defensive about it I think it's a national interest uh in fact if you you know uh if you look at the the big changes in the world uh I this is something


big changes in the world uh I this is something which has been very much uh in the making especially in the last decade but in all of this please see how how strongly our relationship with Russia's health study so I mean surely you do not suggest that our relationship with Russia is any the less over these years so Prime Minister Modi uh said uh told Putin that you know this is not an era war war is not going to be the solution uh you know two problems do you feel that the world is seeing it like that about the Ukraine crisis I think the world is still very divided the sentiment that prime minister voiced is a widely shared sentiment it's also a sentiment which is particularly strong in the countries of the South you asked me what is the voice of global South you know what I hear that about look today you have a huge number of countries in Africa and Asia and Central America Latin America Caribbean Pacific who feel that our issues are being put on the side and the entire


issues are being put on the side and the entire oxygen is being sucked up by the Ukraine conflict so nobody is really worrying about whether I get food and what cost I get food what's happening to fuel you know fertilizers debt and today remember even middle income countries are going into debt okay so the what be want to do and I think that was very much on prime minister's mind he wants somewhere to create a momentum for peace if you would and I think that was his first public expression remember he'd been talking to President Putin and zelinski on the phone as well and that was his first public expression in practical ways we've been helping out you know when this Black Sea grain deal was done we did a little bit there to help when I was in um in New York the Ukrainian prime minister actually had some concerns about the safety of the nuclear power plant so I spoke to RPM and then got his approval to you know to both Engage The


got his approval to you know to both Engage The Russians and pass on some messages there and the iaea as well we are working with the U.N Secretary General on some issues particularly fertilizer because a lot of the countries of the global South the developing countries they are facing serious fertilizer Securities because Russia is one of the biggest exporter of fertilizers so I don't you know uh I think it would not be fair today to reduce a very complex issue the Ukraine conflict to a you know binary of are you for are you on this side or that side are you for peace or for War uh I think it's much more intricate than that and we are involved in some of the intricacies but we have to you know wait and see where this is where this goes uh you know if if you know what what both Ukraine and Russia know is that if we can be of any use yeah we will be willing you know our our sort of uh capabilities and sort of Goodwill is there for


of uh capabilities and sort of Goodwill is there for that we'll have to wait and see where this goes so has the war impacted on this on the relationship between India and Russia and between Mr Modi and Mr Putin no no I look our relationship with Russia I think has been extraordinarily steady it has been steadied through all the turbulence in in global politics so as I said again you know the opposition perhaps it's their job to criticize it would be nice if they do it with a little bit more information and accuracy but I I do think you know some of what they say needs to be put through some kind of lens you know some kind of filter of you're putting it through a sieve right now reality and not very much is coming out of that scene so look I think today we are in a good position I mean we begin you ask me what is your nine year report card my relationship with the major powers is very good I grant you that China is an exception and it is


grant you that China is an exception and it is an exception and please notice I said China c-h-i-n-a okay you mention it yes so so I I grant you that China is an exception it is an exception because China has violated agreements that we have and is today uh has a posture on a border for which I had to have a counter posture but overall my relationship uh with the major Powers if you can call them are very good I think our relationship with Europe is probably the best ever that we've had uh our relationship with in in the quad the quad has really been a very very effective mechanism which is Australia Dr Jai Shankar there have been attacks on gurdwaras and temples in Australia Canada UK on temples on temples and in uh in Gurdwara in Canada uh there's a democrine temple temple in Canada okay so how are we going to react to this we have taken up we have taken the we have taken this up and we have uh you know cautioned these comments that


we have uh you know cautioned these comments that you know these are very radical extremist forces at work and that they need to they need to you know respond to it appropriately okay as I wind up I'm going to ask you a couple of questions come back to you uh you know uh you were in Fiji and at this a Hindi conference and you were speaking English and so how many languages do you speak here of polyglot I've heard you speak Russian no no no no this look this is this is all I'm I'm very I'm very very modest and realistic in making claims uh uh I I obviously I speak English I I speak Hindi I won't say at a very high standard but with a kind of a uh Street Smart fluency the tamilian Hindi or is it a J new Hindi no no it's actually a Delhi Hindi I mean I grew up in I was born in Delhi okay you were born in Delhi yes I was born in Delhi I was


Delhi yes I was born in Delhi I was born in Delhi I grew up in Delhi I spent you know most whatever time I've spent in India as loudly Delhi so it's a very Delhi persons uh I would say fluent not always complex Hindi but I I think um you're breaking the state stereotype of a tamilian speaking Hindi fluent Hindi you do speak so uh but you know because I grew up in Hindi I I didn't have the advantage of ever studying Tamil I spent very few years you grew up in Delhi so you speak in Delhi I've spent very very few years in but you can speak Tamil I can speak Tamil but not with uh not you know with the kind of fluency and command of vocabulary that I would like Russian is different because I actually studied Russian when I was in the Foreign Service we are allotted a language so I went there so I actually properly studied it using books and so on it's been many many years but


books and so on it's been many many years but what uh I have a certain vocabulary and a very very uh desert that residual memory so once you go in there you know it takes just a few days but the of you know the the vocabulary of foreign policy if I were to watch let us say news I'd be able to get a lot of that okay if I were to be on the the street it will take me longer because there'll be accent you know more colloquial stuff I have a certain I would say working a rudimentary sense of Japanese because I do need to talk to my wife from time to time okay so this Multicultural exchanges that you have at home tell me about that Japanese by Tamil husband you know look what has happened is we've we've kind of evolved something which is peculiar to us and this happens you know in this situation I mean it could be your food it could be your slang language you know what you say to each other I mean


you know what you say to each other I mean we use phrases which somebody else listening in would find very difficult because they could be Japanese slang put in an English sentence sometimes with a Hindi twist because my wife my wife's linguistic ability is much better than mine so so we we sort of end up with some kind of I would say uh you know I I learned uh Hungarian but unfortunately it's very Rusty because uh you the you know when you don't use a language reading it no no no no Hungarian okay but it's a it's a very complex language okay so it's a fenugreek group so uh so people make more claims about me than I do myself I'm very very uh everybody wants to know are you going to contest Lok Sabha polls in 2014 2024. uh I am a rajya Sabha member uh my term expires this year after that we'll have to see don't give you know I don't know how many 25 years maybe I've heard these diplomatic answers from


25 years maybe I've heard these diplomatic answers from you and tried to find answers no no look uh on on would you want to uh on these things you know I I tell you I'm going back to your first question I am actually honestly in awe of people of everybody irrespect of our party who have spent their lives in politics because you actually don't know how incredibly hard it is how demanding it is you know what how much it takes up not of your time but of your life you know the kind of effort that they put you know there are no Saturday Sunday holiday morning night nothing and it's only when you are in politics that you can actually see ah what it is and I would say those who particularly contest Lok Sabha they are like at The Cutting Edge Cutting Edge of that because it's it's a it's an enormous demand but most people would think that it's a life of privilege Latins Bungalow I I I know that is the that is the popular impression


I know that is the that is the popular impression and I say this uh you know please do not think I'm saying it because I joined politics I'm saying it because actually I I'm only now getting into Political life and I'm getting into it at a fairly ripe age from from another profession even I did not realize it till you know I would watch politicians as I said you know watching them meeting them from time to time is very different when you actually see the lives live the life you know uh the the kind of travel they do the kind of uh openness of you know which you with which you have to uh keep your activities going it's it's you're doing that in rajya Sabha you're doing that as a rajya Sabha MP you're traveling a lot you're traveling within the country you're traveling outside the country look I it's not it's not a fact on what what the others do I mean because I I do spend uh you know as a minister I have to


uh you know as a minister I have to spend a lot of time here as a Delhi person I have to spend a lot of time here you know the the rajya Sabha demands are far less than the Lok Sabha demands so I I look at my honestly my colleagues and again this is a non-political it's a non-partisan point it's a political point I actually Marvel at at really you know how much of an effort people in politics have to make it so it's a very tough life it is just in conclusion when I talk about when you were saying non-partisan uh I must comment on this that when when you joined uh the government there are many in my uh friend circle in my colleague Circle who were like why does Dr Jay Shankar want to join politics why he's had such a sterling career in uh in bureaucracy and many felt very let down when you joined politics that you know now you've chosen a party you represented just India but now you've


chosen a party you represented just India but now you've chosen a political party and in 2014 there was a kind of a watershed moment and maybe even 2018 later 2019 too where even in you know Mr Modi brings that out in many people the people adore him and they're on you know like him a lot and on the other side they feel that no not him so when you chose to join the BJP you made that choice you moved away did you feel you lost friends at that stage or many people who moved away from you no look I as I said I gave it a lot of thought remember I became minister at the end of uh me I think I joined the party I can't remember the exact date but I must have thought about it roughly for about a month you know I mean thought about it means not like every day thinking about it but I gave the matter thought uh I I joined because my sense is that they are the right party uh the right time for India's rise and


right party uh the right time for India's rise and progress because at the end of the day when you ask so what are you in it for you know uh after all which one of us would not like to say I also made some difference somewhere you know the country went up and somewhere you can debate how much so uh uh I I you know I had no active desire to to join politics at all I mean to me as I said it came as a complete surprise that the Prime Minister could even consider me uh for for such a such a job and I became a minister before I convented a political party so I would be somewhat different from many other people you know who may have also been in bureaucracy before before they went down that route ah I do feel sometimes that you know uh the the argumentation the debate sometimes the relationships the civility uh especially in Delhi uh is uh is more polarized than it should be than it should be for the people concerned or for


it should be for the people concerned or for the good of the country but you know sometimes that is that is the way it is Europe daily boy you also lived in Washington DC I think it was Reagan right who said that if you want a friend in this instrument true one who said get a dog go get a dog do you feel that about Delhi too no no no look I I I still I do not get the time to socialize anymore uh uh I snatch you know uh hello there and a cup of coffee here sort of thick but I I wouldn't say that maybe I you know some of this are arguments with people I've known for a long time so I I I I know what you are saying I I know there are many people uh who you and I have both known for a long time decades uh decades who have political uh preferences which are very different from mine but you know my my understanding of what our life in a Democratic Society is supposed to be is that


a Democratic Society is supposed to be is that you know you you each have your Viewpoint I I don't necessarily build my friendships uh on on party positions do the others do the same others meaning the others those same people who are unable to keep up with those friendships because of your political decision I I honestly don't know the answer I think that's something you have to ask them uh I mean I uh I I do accept that you know in the last few years there would be people who who who whose political feelings are so strong that you know it may have it may be coloring the vision of me but I would say at least my closest friends many of whom by the way are not BJP supporters or Modi supporters my really closest friends I have not seen that happening what is your day of like last question when you want to chill when you want to relax what do you do um read a book music go for a meal no no what do we do oh look I I read


no what do we do oh look I I read a lot even otherwise I don't need you know because I I'm on a plane you know if you're in planes and you fly commercial you don't even take a special aircraft I I apply commercial as far as I can yeah uh and you're the old-fashioned you'd carry books yes I carry books you're not a Kindle person as yet or you're not you're not all that you still carry this old-fashioned yes because you know I kind you know books at least I'm old-fashioned I do watch movies uh I uh usually download it on my you know oh no I've never seen you watching a movie in a flight or you know chilling with the movie I've always seen you with books uh maybe we should fly right now together all right on that note thank you so much for this conversation thank you it was a pleasure thanks thank you for watching or listening into this podcast do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste thank you


you have seen this or heard this namaste thank you [Music]


foreign [Music] that's the beauty of my country say S I was always told and I am still told I do expose people who say is I give it back to them also but uh what would be much talked about where I am going to expose a maulvi imagine the prime minister of the country gives you a call and he wishes you well he wishes you Eid and he says if he could speak with Mama I remember that shine in my mom's eyes I want to tell them all these male anchors character assassination of intelligence what do you need a private part for journalism no you don't need you need a good brain sharp eyes you need uh you know your nose to smell something is uh fishy what do you mean Namaste jaihin welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash today my guest is noted anchor rubika leyakat rubika made a name for herself for her Fury style of anchoring news bulletins whether in Zee TV and now with ABP


bulletins whether in Zee TV and now with ABP News where she continues with the same style of picking up contentious topics and getting all sides of the debate on her shows rubika does on-ground reporting and is often criticized for editorializing news she's active on social media where true to her style the posts are a lot about who she is as a person fearless and bold being a progressive Muslim woman professional she finds herself at odds with those who want to box her into slots here's rubika liyakat uncensored rubika being a friend of mine we discussed a whole host of topics and she spoke about her personal life her trials and tribulations without hesitation rubika thank you so much for coming on my podcast I've been wanting for viewers and listeners I been wanting to have rubika on the show for several months but Madam her channel so I've been telling her she's like a firefighter Jesus exactly so thank you Rebecca for coming thank you so much or uh first


Rebecca for coming thank you so much or uh first of all I apologize and I would say I am sorry I won't be able to come I'm in ayodhya I am in badrinath I am here I am there but this time I'm nowhere I'm here I'm in fact podcast with Smitha prakash yes thank you for plugging that so and if anything else you know I was always I used to say please elections like we can enjoy and it will never happen it will never happen why do you say that so always I have made this uh a formula whatever I like I'm never going to tell my boss but even politicians but the privately that they should be you know one election every five years or maybe one midterm election continuous election it is it's exhausting and I think it it's a drain on resources what do you think I really think that it's a good idea you know we should uh we should sit and discuss about it and find out a way because you're absolutely right


and find out a way because you're absolutely right that is um you're always in election mode so whenever you are in election mode your for the politicians you are in the promise mode you're never in delivering so then obviously you would want it from the other states to help this is how it goes and uh uh you will always be in that mode where you have to keep asking people to help you instead of helping people which you actually made to do and you won't be able to do it you don't do it so I personally feel that decide but do it once and fall for five years and then uh so you're right I mean I openly say we'll get into politics but before that I think my viewers want to know everything about you as a person okay journalism did you always want to get into journalism what was the motivation to get into journalism it's a very interesting story so my daddy [Music] so she would have Quran in her hand I have seen her reading Quran or


in her hand I have seen her reading Quran or Sarah yeah they were like four or five people in my family so my father a cricketer my mother a scientist I remember my who's struggling at that time he was pretty young and he was trying to figure out what he wants to do so sometimes he wanted to be a cricketer obviously he was he was playing for the uh for the state but he wanted to model also he wanted to have his business also so I remember him and my daddy and so these four people and I was pretty young probably seven eight or shadow foreign would sit down at around nine in front of TV and would listen to this woman with flower you know and I would just you know kind of uh Wonder that a cricketer religious and there's this confused man in Charo um and I didn't know that she's a journalist or an anchor I didn't know I just knew that this woman has got something that she grabbed the attention of four disparate people again and and that


the attention of four disparate people again and and that is when probably you know somewhere in your subconsciousness yeah it was there foreign and then my father you know he would look at these people by line in the newspaper so he thought okay I did not think about it but this is now you're talking about like from a a Midtown level person in Rajasthan you know yeah to think that didn't so was it a big step for you to get out of the state get out into the big bad world of Journalism of Delhi Noida rather and and before yeah I went to uh pursue my bachelor of mass media uh there in Mumbai Mumbai University so uh and and would you believe he's my father sent me alone alone as in udaipur say and he knew that she is going to so I chose which place I would be so risby College was the one obviously College minority and then I uh I found hostel for myself YWCA and then I Feast I I called him so he


and then I Feast I I called him so he said you have to uh I will send it to your puppy and this puppy you know she told me six months later Smitha that your father told me she will do everything on her own so he was preparing me and I was angry inside that you know but it was because they wanted me to taste that you know uh struggle beginning they did not want to give everything in the plate so anyways I went there uh you remember North India versus politics so it was then also I'm talking about 2003 four five six caspas so so instead of I had 36 sub subjects in uh to cover in three years I don't remember single book Wojo academics I don't remember name of a single book but I I remember and memorize I remember memorizing these 3600 characters that I met in Mumbai those three years and it prepared me for the battle in Noida really yeah who are these people uh who influenced you so much I wouldn't


uh who influenced you so much I wouldn't use influence as a word I I would I would use learning from them so so they were they were the my my uh you know classmates and there were teachers as well and different characters okay I remember these characters uh so I was from Rajasthan and they were from a Metro City I'll tell you how um so I I did my schooling from a convent school but it was from udaipur uh education education so obviously I learned it so so my accent also wasn't that great huh so uh so they would you know always make fun of me no and they would say for them Rajasthan was register and your mother is a scientist and and it was a cultural shock for me and I was um and uh I would never be a part of any group that is so funny [Laughter] yeah we could because I would say yeah true the last thing must have heard that was mughliers because I was away from my parents person okay so so there


was away from my parents person okay so so there was a lot of difficulties and then um obviously the accent hmm foreign not as it is today huh so uh but when I came to Delhi okay you know more uh and here I realized that people in the Hindi media industry are more from you know Bihar from Rajasthan uh I would write about it sometimes because I have lived Mumbai I have lived Delhi not in I'm saying I've lived both this experiences you know um Delhi is like a queen cheese so these are two places nobody says like that usually you know they say um uh nobody refers to a Delhi girl as a queen maybe it is true that there are several kinds of Delhi girls it takes a little while to come to that level absolutely and uh like I said it has her own set of rules and if if you kind of uh stick with those rules and I'm saying um foreign don't try to be her and she will treat you like a


to be her and she will treat you like a queen so Delhi and I and I instantly understood Delhi when I came here really okay and I think that I have to inform at least couple of people that I am going to be here it could be my parents it could be my husband it could be my friend my sister anybody and uh um Ika I'm going to move on to uh to a topic that you know initially I had thought is there is more to you than just this you can't be stereotyped I can't be but I will ask you because you know you have broken so many stereotypes and I have always admired you for that you know uh I know your family and uh I know you as a friend for several years but still for our viewers for our listeners I need you to tell me what it was like going growing up in a progressive household where you know there will be relatives because as a progressive Muslim family uh there will be also conventional kind


Muslim family uh there will be also conventional kind of mores Christian families but I would think that it would be a uh in in probably in some of your family setup or your neighborhood or your friend circle of your mother what was it like and also to have to have such an educated family your mother being a scientist that influence on you so do you know I am ambidextrous no I didn't I use both my hands you know why because my father wanted me to be a cricketer um my uh my side of people are progressive but they couldn't digest the facts so then that idea was dropped and uh because I succeeded in what I uh kind of pursued like you're saying that opposition families and I was always a different girl so when my parents uh agreed okay agreed journalism Bollywood and everybody started talking about and they would always think and my father and my mother would never pay attention and modern scene is a negative thing very negative very negative foreign [Music] so I would do


negative very negative foreign [Music] so I would do all those things my father said so uh she needs ocean and that is the reason he said captain foreign but he knew that she has potential and uh my father is the one who pushed my mother to do PhD and that is when she kind of discovered this species uh that is studied after marriage yeah my father said you study she was a clerk clerical fourth grade employees lab assistant so she said I can't I have two babies I won't be able to do it and he said I will take care of your babies my father was just a graduate and a cricketer so she disagreed okay [Music] um so he said I will do it for you and I remember my father bathing me and my sister making you know my choti and pony you know for listeners and viewers by this is so important why I wanted Rebecca to tell me all this story about her parents because of this this misconception that people have that in Muslim


this this misconception that people have that in Muslim families men don't encourage their women got his wife looked after the family and got his wife to do PhD after marriage go on rubika and uh I still remember my mother keeping that is and and and I've seen my father working with her day and night and my father would sometimes proudly say so uh we were the we were two little girls and we would see my father doing everything for and he would proudly say um my father and he would say and my mother wouldn't do anything without him so I I come from that background and I was always told and I and I am still told so if I have to get scared of someone and then there is my father and family backdrops backgrounds all three of you have to do something you can't be sitting home and you you have to become independent you can't be dependent on anybody all three women in their different my sisters and entrepreneur my mother obviously Maybe yeah competition healthy competition


entrepreneur my mother obviously Maybe yeah competition healthy competition and then there was this coach of ours she does much better than motivation Always Forever so uh and he he had put these blinkers on our faces Smitha foreign and we we don't look anywhere man who he's there and my God is there nobody else yeah because you know I mean as as an anchor most women anchors get a lot of love and a lot of hate I've seen people come to you and take selfies from you know anywhere in India to even in Dubai I was with you in Dubai and I've seen people coming and you know gushing about how how great you are and they love your work but I've also seen how you know how much of hate and how much of you know disgusting comments come your way because of a certain uh because you editorialize your news you're not just presenting your yo you come out in your news like when you're talking about the hijab controversy or when you're talking about anything about


controversy or when you're talking about anything about a certain mawlana who'll say that you know uh election ticket I've seen that you put your views also and because of that you get a lot of hate from traditional so I would think that somewhere you're getting a strength to battle that also isn't it yeah and you know there are there there even if I put a dot and if you want we can do a live demonstration put a dot and leave it on Twitter yeah the filth is going to come back so I have started using Twitter as a bhopu you know a speaker where I would say what I feel and I would not keep it to myself you know what happens Smita especially with my community my people uh and majority of them this is uh a fact that is known to everybody and uh foreign foreign and then what happens the first and the foremost thing that same person is going to do is come out of the ghetto hmm and then they will start socializing and


ghetto hmm and then they will start socializing and they will sit with you and talk 10 000 things about my community and they will go back to the community on Friday and they'll talk different things about you to the community they will create a bigger wall between my community and the you know outside world you have become good you have earned well in your life you have got education give it back to the society no you will just keep you will have the bestest of things in the world you'll come out of that ghetto you will enjoy as much as you can and when it comes to kind of educate your society and tell that no no you have to agree with what they are saying this is not right in closed doors you would say yeah this is all bakwas and in front of the com you would say yeah and what am I doing I'm exposing this also in this also yeah so I will get uh you know kind of abuses from both the sides and does it upset you you know


the sides and does it upset you you know sometimes you sometimes you get upset but then what I do is I just kind of you know brush that dust off my shoulder and I'm how does that matter you're constantly on air to to vent emotions but there are times I guess it does it does upset it used to huh it used to yeah what is wrong I am trying to do something for my Society hindustanco a Kanna Hindu or Muslims hmm all these people I'll just give you one instance there was this uh there was this uh probably Agra uh foreign so I said we'll do a phono and before that I just called the the reporter from that particular area and I asked uh um [Music] so it was a Convent School just go and find out um foreign I give it back to them also but uh what would be much talked about where I am going to expose a malvi and why wouldn't I agree you're going to give it to the people or


agree you're going to give it to the people or maikong I will expose it after some days or probably some years they would realize that I wasn't wrong for example on the hijab thing I remember that MIM uh what's that spokesperson's name right so with yeah where he was telling you about how it is in the Quran and he was trying to tell you that it is in the Quran and that hijab is compulsory he was trying to tell you and you said and so you know what happened was that I saw that on air and I saw it the other day and then I had always see in my show and I was asking him what he had said about hijab because he had said that inshallah one day there will be president of India Joe hijab um so I asked him I said why do you have to say hijab you can have a Muslim right whether hijab or not do you ever say that Hindu mahila president Hindu will be a


Hindu mahila president Hindu will be a president a Christian will be a president nobody why is important because you see his speech somewhere is something else somewhere is something else so the same thing and that's why I want to ask you is that what is your view you on it because you you've done this fabulous Instagram post I'm going to play that Instagram post and after playing that Instagram post I'm going to ask you to speak yeah hijab compulsory hijab I um foreign Quran is foreign foreign foreign foreign [Music] foreign foreign foreign [Music] foreign foreign in religion is I'm comfortable with it foreign foreign foreign foreign foreign foreign you have gone into it you have read it and so what do you have to say to people who don't want to listen to this but have their own view their own interpretation about it so it I have explained hijab is not the scarf we are talking about okay you you uh journalism that is true yes you have the Liberty to say that okay and


yes you have the Liberty to say that okay and and your father has a lot of stories your father-in-law have a lot of stories to share with you and and I challenge you Smita I challenge you just find women uh around 1947 or before that where was the burqa do you remember any um they have different style of their clothes where is the burqa where did it come from you tell me one freedom fighter of hindustani sari Muslim you remember any of them wearing burqa give me one name yeah they used to wear saree um that's the parampara of my zameen kabila you would you he would say this you know kabila is an important what is my kabila today if in this entire if you ask uh what is Hindustan that's my habila boundaries geography is India foreign foreign giving us Gan here about islami must be a sanatana and we are told this is and Islam is comparatively a new religion all of them are converted they converted what is um


all of them are converted they converted what is um what is wrong in that but what you were saying is your kabila which is Hindustan a geographical boundary but there are many who say that that's not it they say that com is not the geographical boundary of Bharat of Hindustan it is somewhere else isn't it so go and ask those who are located somewhere else would they open their arms for these uh people here who are saying we belong there be practical yeah everybody knows about this the kind of love the kind of affection the kind of respect that you get here an Indian Muslim would you get anywhere else they would say no and and they are they're uh very clear about it they wouldn't get it and please we have we have to kind of uh separate these two people who are playing on behalf of my com and my com these are two very different aspects I am whenever I am on ground I am in touch with my people my community and they are not


touch with my people my community and they are not like that there's no darker Mahal in your community when you meet there's no that there is no space for an Indian Muslim in India foreign you come with me I'll take you to whichever ghetto you want to go the eldest woman in that area go ask her are you scared what is your most precious valuable thing she wouldn't point at her daughters and son she would just look at the Quran which is kept by her side all the time and she would point there and she would say yeah and you try to snatch that from her from a 96 year old woman she wouldn't give it to you and and I guarantee you can't do it with to any woman any Muslim woman in India I'm telling you just go and ask any woman okay but there are people who would say this needs to go away or and when I say this I am given names or is Hindu or is I am called a right winger what is a right


I am called a right winger what is a right winger keeping India United is right winger talking about your parampara your culture is right winger and being proud of it is right finger a Muslim woman cannot talk about Indian culture you become right finger it happened recently when you went to ayodhya and dhanteras you celebrated because you said that my mother used to tell me then and now my sister reminded me you put out that yes and then you there was a blowback for me it is not there for my children it is never going to be there for my family for people who know me and you're talking about me there are so many families Smitha many people need to know this that there are many many many families uh in India foreign yes this is a fact that they do not like BJP and they have no qualms in saying that and even this party knows about it so uh so anything that happens in the regime or anything that is done by the regime uh


or anything that is done by the regime uh I'm not going to get into that but what I'm trying to say is that uh it's happening today that they are being seen uh this way uh you understand like for example you went and did this the anger that came towards you there'll be many others who probably are doing that but when they see this thing happening and maybe you know their neighbors don't like it Things become lesser and lesser I remember also that you wear a bindi you wear gajra in your hair you go you know you wear a sari you celebrate all these things but then comes this thing why are you doing it why are you everything becomes something to beat you with yeah and I'm doing it for a reason because I'm being paid huh yeah because I've been given uh a certain task James Bonds you really think that I would put a bindi for a task you really think I would wear a sari because I've I've been given a task I have been doing


I've been given a task I have been doing it forever and ever and ever and and I'm telling you Smith or just try just close your eyes and try to remember a Muslim woman back then secularism secularism so you are tagged so like we were talking about hijab right so my which you said uh you've said it in your many shows when when the whole question about that Karnataka girls came up hijab um what is more important to a girl at that stage that's also a tradition she doesn't want to break it but for what is more important I think but uh has anybody stopped them to wear it in the Gali Mahala no in the market no has anybody stopped them to wear it wherever they want except the institution where they're going for the education you will not wear it from the Ghar it is said that when you enter you will have to kind of quietly keep it in your cupboards or bag or whatever so that there is what is uniform for God's sake use use


is what is uniform for God's sake use use your brain uniform is for the uniformity you are no different from me he being rich or she being rich is not there you're wearing a uniform you're wearing same kind of dress clothes difference now that's the simple idea behind it and now you if you start and they say um [Music] no they're not going that ways foreign but just because you know they are targeting us this victim card you know have debit card have credit card have all the kinds of cards you want to have do not have this victim card it is not going to take you anywhere it will put you in debt that's what I'm I'm I really want to tell all these people especially ask yourself ask yourself look in the mirror and ask yourself and they will say no um that no you are being discriminated discriminated discriminated you know it's easy it's a comfort factor but I can't compete because I'm being discriminated because so I didn't get the job I


discriminated because so I didn't get the job I didn't get the movie that I want to act in because I have a particular surname or whatever but you can find many reasons for failures you know you try another way don't you agree with that no no you're absolutely right and you you uh in eni might have a lot of people who belong to different uh cars Community religion so what you think that way is [Music] I'm not saying all of them I'm going to paint everybody you know in the same color and everybody knows and it happens in other parts of the world also or America maybe you have to bring about in private sector and all that diversity policy in hiring um that's not the case we had a diversity policy in hiring even before even before it became fashionable diversity right I'm not talking just about a I but in your Newsroom also there are people of all religions when you when you're sitting in the canteen people of all religions


sitting in the canteen people of all religions are there right you start your day it starts from a person who's from a different Community different religion and you end your day uh or is is beached you know these 24 hours you have 10 different people from 10 different uh part of the kind of country they belong to different uh sex they belong to different uh families can you can you kind of separate them you can't so this I am my lived experience you're feeling this I'm sorry I'm interrupting you you lived experience in the middle of the day he goes for his prayer takes a break boss gives him a break you are being discriminated foreign you know somewhere someone must have told you that you know you this must be happening with you know just because you are uh from uh minority Community I'm sure you know people you would be treating you a lesser or differently and probably that day something may have happened and the boss may have yelled but I'm saying


and the boss may have yelled but I'm saying why would you want to listen to anybody else listen to you Allah listen to your own people I listen to my daddy my daddy is uh son that is my father I listen to my mother I listen to my my uh why would I want to listen to anybody else why do you want to portray that no no you are the pakka musalman footballers that girlfriend of his uh is staying and in Saudi Arab there is a law that you cannot stay together in a room in a hotel if you're not married for them the law is broken for everybody else it remains same yeah um so what happens is that they confuse and until unless your you will educate yourself both ways Quran also and the education that is needed for the real world if you don't understand these two together you are never going to kind of be at peace but tell me rubika when you when you pick up these stories and do in your bulletins uh are


up these stories and do in your bulletins uh are you told that story is it told to you because you might get influenced or you might have a bias no and the best part about my channel ABP network is that if you have an opinion say it loud and uh I'm thankful that I've got an editor who you know takes care of this freedom freedom and they know what am I known for so you think it is going to be possible in this world digital world that I have my own opinion and I kind of put something else on TV that doesn't work that transparency today is known to everybody so uh I have never been told hey Google what is trb trp is you watching it yeah so you're basically saying it to your own self so I tell people okay by the way I have made sure and I want to tell you that is but there's this one instance that I want to share so there was this Maulana who would come and now I stopped calling him after


who would come and now I stopped calling him after that he knows it I'm not going to name him he knows it so so he called me and he said could you help me so obviously we are here to help each other I said what is the matter so this uh Paul visap tells me that who um so if you could help us if you could you know kind of put in a word for us and if that could be done I really don't know how it is done I I will try to figure out and then the next nine he says and I was like um and he realized that okay yeah and this happened to me he knows if he's listening he knows and he still goes in the TV debates and he talks about Islam and I'm I'm saying it today at smitha's podcast that I will name you someday and I'll shame you so that this country knows that who they are dealing with and I said and these are the people who talk about Islam and


and these are the people who talk about Islam and who talk about an interesting thing is that for this this maulvi calls uh my husband he says and then he says uh there are many men who think that they can take the liberty of saying this and I'm not just saying men there are women also who come across and tell women is this news is this what you do news you know earlier I used to say that Twitter handle say I will not uh I will not say anything against women of my profession I will not there used to be a kind of an omerta code seniors because there are so few of us we should stand by each other people have broken that that code that silent code huh that's gone and I've seen senior women put down other women they have they have broken the glass ceiling it's because of their head younger women are coming forward you know they don't have to do the fights that we had to do similarly we didn't have to do the fights or above


we didn't have to do the fights or above ladies these putting down the younger journalists and laughing about the way they are dressed it just bothers me so much yeah I I remember the episode you're talking about and is it only about these women who are out of the system these days it's about even men who are out of the system these days they give us the lecture on journalism you know I have seen how they used to operate I've seen how they used to work and we were babies then we we would uh kind of look up to them we have seen how they used to work how there was uh you know there would be a meeting held of different channels editors together that you know we think this is the news this is this is how the agenda would be so they should not be giving us Gyan at least we have all the transparency I have seen the kind of professionalism uh you know that was missing then it is today the transparency and the professionalism and immediac


today the transparency and the professionalism and immediac Cena don't have the uh the the facilities you would know this more no because you've worked with them also yeah I'm saying I was I was just a baby I didn't know all this I and now when I look back and and I see these people lecturing us I'm you know I I just wonder how could you possibly do that yeah you were there you did things that nobody can even imagine no especially in Hindi media Smitha if somebody wanted to kind of uh have naukri in some other channel because a knows B are good friends networking strong friends so you met a you came out a call B where you're working and B would call you and say your career was put at halt not just professionally financially also because the kind of jump that you would get uh by going to the airport by going to the other channel you can't because a is Pali with B and this this used to happen and now it doesn't happen


this used to happen and now it doesn't happen anymore and now you're giving Gyan to us we have seen all of it yeah so you're talking about women I'm saying about these men also in the industry yeah and everything is clear today everything is social media yeah the social media you feel that it has its negatives but it has it it's very strongly helped women in careers isn't it do you feel that yes it has so people say rubika uh they keep hurling abuses at you you know they're more sharper than these blades and stones and I say uh I have never seen social media that ways I don't pay attention I told you in the beginning I my father has put these blinkers these people have um why would I even give them but social media in that ways has helped me because uh people from guwahati you know from from uh far thiruvananthapuram or story ideas and and they say we we saw this you look lovely in this attire uh


saw this you look lovely in this attire uh your uh that one liner was amazing you wouldn't be in touch with them if social media wasn't there so for me it has always been a blessing you know I I want to play this uh yeah [Music] foreign [Music] I follow you on Instagram your Instagram handle is very interesting I follow you everywhere you flattered um you know your workout it's very important you say because you you keep saying this keep mentally strong radically physically strong and you keep putting that out out here that you know it helps in the mental well-being tell me something about that if I don't exercise I'm not breathing it's a must I listen to my body and uh so it started uh then I was in z i got pregnant and obviously pregnancy means halt pause because you have to deliver you have to be with the baby for at least those three six months and I probably wasn't I did not see it coming I was anchoring on Z till my


it coming I was anchoring on Z till my eighth month till ninth month yeah till uh I became so big and uh Subhash ji once saw me and he said oh you're pregnant that's why you're looking fat man and then I said this was indeed many many years ago so so Z doesn't kind of no they don't say anything yeah they don't say anything I I uh anchor till the last day and then I said and I used to wear my heels why I used to wear my heels because I was like physically very active uh my ignorant cookies before this you know viewers were in Kashmir we were in gulmarg as a patrila Pura and barf it was it was snowing there was ice everywhere it was like we were trying to climb this area stop it nobody is listening and we were this group of journalists all of us were like you know wearing sneakers and coat and all and Madam G like puree you know she I think you look you thought


puree you know she I think you look you thought you were Sarah Banu I think in kashmiruchi heel pancake she's going up and one of our journalists foreign actually that's like so anyway now let's come from shami Kapoor uh to uh and Aditya I was like how is she going to climb this mountain with these heels and he started videoing and she climbed it okay okay we must please agree to this that I have seen a lot of women saying that you know this may have happened with a kind of motiva women okay what I so so people do ask me you being a woman was your journey kind of full of struggle I said it was uh it was full of struggles it is still full of struggles but it will add on to my struggle if you just you know kind of give it to me that is full of struggles what do you need for journalism I I generally ask this and I outrightly ask this what do you need a private part


ask this what do you need a private part for journalism no you don't need you need a good brain sharp eyes you need uh you know your nose to smell something is uh fishy you need your ears uh I'm all ears and you need fingers to write something or type something or if you are an anchor like me you need a strong kind of voice and sharp tongue what else do you need what else do you need and you need that passion so is it lesser in a woman has it ever happened to me no it has never happened to me for me my age has been a problem that I am pretty much younger than the people who are right now at 9 00 pm so so bigger shoes and you know so I would I would always be loved it asking [Music] um you know uh stall words yeah big faces nobody that's a big word yeah yeah so um and and I would I I would be told that you know foreign how do I connect to my audience


you know foreign how do I connect to my audience now and it's been like good five years I've been doing nine and is doing pretty good so uh um foreign but it's the other way around also for women you know many women anchors are told that you're too old because television is about the younger medium yes that you don't fit into that Matlab you are not extremely thin you're not like navika's broken that mold by being a sorry clad and not extremely thin person who's anchoring on Hindi and English you know and she's doing both very rarely will you find people doing both languages she could have you know dropped the idea she did not she was consistent she had that passion you have this passion you can sit back home and you know relax or go on a long vacation and just you know kind of go away from it you you also can say I've been there I've seen it all now you know it's not the time no but you're still fighting has anybody ever


time no but you're still fighting has anybody ever asked you Smitha or has anyone ever asked navika about you know but it's like you can say what you want but that that's you're fighting no you are not saying just because I've been pushed I'll be in the corner now that fight is constant no you're fighting I am saying that you have to fight for it you can't say anything like for example you interviewed a Prime Minister Modi didn't people say in your own channel that did people tell the boss your bosses I am not sure because nobody said it to me if they had said to me I would have obviously answered them and and they know that I will fight for it they know they they ask me would you be doing this you want to do this and I'm always a yes woman I never say no so so you have to decide as as a woman uh was there any sort of uh kind of uh partiality uh that because I am a woman I wasn't


uh that because I am a woman I wasn't given that opportunity and a male counterpart was given the opportunity no I would fight for it and then you would say um you will have to fight for it every day so when I became uh when I got pregnant I was I was 90 kgs and then um what would you do now because on screen you have to look a slim you know good looking woman not that uh Joseph they are not good looking but to each its own kinds jobs so you always miss that screen presence and Camera so what do I do now I don't want my Editor to you know kind of make bahanas and tell me we had to come to our exercise take my blinkers so three months I have to be now uh back in shape so I have a child in my hand and my would come and say hey um eleventh day I was walking on the road and my mother also huh eat have ghee have us up so anyways uh so they were after my life to


so anyways uh so they were after my life to get back into action huh and uh exportsman key Betty when your father who is himself a sports person when he sees you he knows that you have to be active you have to be fit and uh there are many people who say Okay body challenge you are eating eating wrong things and putting on weight does nature allow this you have to ask yourself which you keeps writing in your Instagram that it's also important for your mental well-being you know because high pressure jobs May mental well-being is important because managing home and work it's not just for journalists any woman don't know so that exercise when you put it out it's to motivate other people or just for yourself no it is to motivate all the women who think even I really want to tell all these women that you have to live for yourself also no everything is for Bacha and everything is for Pati and there's nothing for you so Pati takes out time for himself Bacha is going to


takes out time for himself Bacha is going to grow up and go away and and you would not be living your precious time uh and then you would be complaining tomorrow so why to look outwards look inwards no do things for yourself we've all grown up with this family did not have any needs of her own or put her needs aside Ambitions aside it has to change it has to change but I am telling you if he knows how to take out time for himself and I'm not saying that his work is lesser than ours I I completely respect my uh you know male counterparts and uh also because their journey is also not smooth as we think they don't they don't you won't see men crying yeah you know you won't see men complaining we say it and we finish it is a man has his own Journey so I respect that but I'm saying it is you left everything for your kids and for your family you sacrifice yourself don't sacrifice your own self respect


yourself don't sacrifice your own self respect your own self if you don't respect yourself nobody else will respect you have to worship your body if you can't worship your body nobody why why would someone else uh respect your body when you are not respecting your body so you'll say how do you respect you don't respect your body by eating unlimited things you respect your body by keeping it in discipline you respect your body by uh you know giving it the kind of physical activity one would need puranism exercise foreign it's a sedentary lifestyle but most women have this you know like I just read uh a news report uh just a sports women motherhood or medals you know like what do you do for sports women um you have sports persons anyway even men have that option okay because Olympics so you know your family pressure comes and you know all those things happen and for women all the more I think right that these choices are put on women very early in life uh as compared to men yeah and


early in life uh as compared to men yeah and then you have to decide no well you have to choose and then you choose everything and you leave everything that that's what happens uh what has happened in my case uh trust me I I was I was uh kind of I knew what I want and and I knew that I would not have time to to give it to my child what would I do and I would not want someone else to take care of my child uh you know help I wouldn't want it from outside so I said I don't want a child my job that is when I would do it my mother was after my life and so was my father and they would just you know be calling me and saying you you are not serious enough I said this is not happening so I called all three so my mother-in-law my father my mother and then I said listen you give it to me in writing that you will be there with my child and then they just you know kind


with my child and then they just you know kind of go away what would I do because I know I I love my career also when it comes obviously I will have to be there with my kid but there will there has to be someone who takes care of my child and I'm so thankful Smith I'm so thankful but sometimes I just look up and I complain mama you promised me that you're not going to you you said you promised me that you're going to be there so uh she's there she's inside me and my father is there it's your pinned tweet that your mother is not there with you but she she's within me I have started laughing like her I behave like her yeah and I've taken up things that I would just get irritated at times you know and I I do it now I have become her and uh there is there is not a single day that I don't kind of you know uh I don't think about her or I don't there was a huge huge


about her or I don't there was a huge huge fight I will keep fighting with him but then we became friends again and now I've come to this uh new idea that there was this bigger assignment that he really wanted her for and someday we are going to see her soon there's not much time to grieve isn't it in the kind of run run I so wish that I had time and I really wanted that time so I became the umbrella so I I have I have I don't like to call this uh thing as I have become the son of the family because we are we are both daughters but I took that you know Papa's place in the hospital so I was the one dealing with doctors I was the one taking care of Mama babo was there my sister was there everybody else was there but I was the one who was talking to the doctors and and like judges doctors so I would obviously you know kind of uh oh they would tell me all those things


of uh oh they would tell me all those things and it so my my sister remembers mom in so many different ways I can't get out of the ICU I'm still there so you're right you know I I wish I had time to kind of and you had to take the decision let go hmm so so there were so many decisions which which were taken and I I kind of speak to my father even today about and and I and I tell him you keep asking yourself no and he says but my thing is and I was anchoring the tenth day yeah I remember that so I PM started working the same day and you understood that I saw how you yeah and uh no matter how people talk about him but I saw him as a son that day you know a strong Sun who can't be crying in front of the public I I could relate to him you know that everybody would be looking at you how you take this I was she was my strongest pillar she she was my bestest


was my strongest pillar she she was my bestest body when she had gone and she was the one who promised me that she's going to be there so I could I could actually relate to what was happening or what would be happening when all of this happened [Music] with prime minister and I and I also started he called me when Mama was in ICU Pia Modi called you yeah and uh he spoke to Mommy and um it was 12th May she left us on 20th May so 12th May uh she went on ventilator he got to know he called me he asked me it was Eid everybody was celebrating and we were in the ICU and imagine the prime minister of the country gives you a call and he wishes you well he wishes you Eid and he says if he could speak with Mama I remember that shine in my mom's eyes that you know the prime minister of this country has called to find out if she's okay or not and I


to find out if she's okay or not and I remember she talking to him and she couldn't speak because obviously uh tubes she could hear he said and she looked at me and she said tell him that I'm very strong she was she was in the ICU ventilator like fear she's strong and she asked me to deliver this to him so I said and she'll fight she fought she fought she did not even if you are in death bed do not stop fighting keep fighting keep fighting keep struggling no matter how difficult it is just keep doing it so whenever I'm low whenever I'm whenever I think that you know why is this happening to me I just think of her I think of this hmm and uh and I'm back again with those unseen swords in my hand and I said why do you have to do this yeah yeah she's here okay yeah because um we were in touch all through I was dealing with my own grief and you know you were dealing with


own grief and you know you were dealing with that at that stage those were difficult years I think you remember I called you and I said I'm scared yeah yeah I was really scared and I remember I was standing in the corner there of the ice the room it was an isolated room because [Music] and I was standing in the corner there and I called you yeah because I didn't know what to do I couldn't have cried in front of papa I couldn't have done it to my younger sister they were all looking up to me isn't that hard rubiker to be the strong one always you know it is very hard and that is why I sometimes miss being that uh Bacha of Mama hmm yeah where uh you just you know you you just keep your head in your lap and say mama yeah so uh it gets difficult at times but I'm like huh but uh the combination not just one thing yeah but my father does it he he so so the good part is so uh he


he so so the good part is so uh he takes care of it now also hmm so uh you posted the other day a tweet which I found so interesting when you know there was a some comedy thing which was running and you said that you know um this is what my father does he he cracks jokes and sometimes I laugh and I laugh foreign [Laughter] but I would laugh just no but he exactly knows what would mean the funniest of things you know like uh tease [Laughter] and he would be I knew he knew this is a private joke that you are sharing with him at that time no those funny things I would be laughing on those he knows exactly and she would go mad and then she would give me a call back and she'll just laugh and I'll just laugh and he'll say and I would keep but cool I so you see um when I came here in the industry red lipstick Matlab entertainment key anchor seriously huh you can't look good


key anchor seriously huh you can't look good dress down huh um you are not paying attention on your beauty you are paying attention on the content content what do you mean by this why can't I be bold and intelligent at the same time intelligence so I I remember and I was the first woman in the industry is foreign [Music] foreign I used to feel the news and say it and I still do it I don't have to I can't just read and do away with it so um why will I not frown or why will I not show that I'm upset and angry I'm not saying but I I was told that behave you know kind you uh do not use a lot of your gestures when I'm talking I there are there are a lot of movements you know this came because there was a lot of movement you know let's put a big ring so people will just keep looking at the ring and they would forget that yeah so I started so people would remember me one thing when


I started so people would remember me one thing when I would stand now can I stand and tell you yeah of course okay so if a woman is standing she has to stand like this why why can't she stand like this hmm or the when the woman is sitting she has to sit like this okay I'm comfortable sitting like this fine but why can't I sit the way I want to sit you understand yeah if I'm angry and I have to say listening foreign foreign foreign people liked it that you put it out there they liked it um [Music] and I was going the other way um and that is when I realized that people want an anchor who is from them they don't want those High Priestess arnab also said this you know when I uh you know like why do you you put yourself out there he was criticized a lot for this because he was like he lives the story right lot of criticism on that story may involve as an anchor but I think he also changed the way it


anchor but I think he also changed the way it was you like it you don't like it if you don't like it don't watch it you know I see seriously believe oh Amir Khan go to the next Channel up you are lucky enough in this country that you have so many channels you don't have to watch only one channel but yeah you are feeling it you are feeling the news in fact rubika I still remember uh you know when when I was called on your show I was also told this that up Muslim debate many points see I don't like that I don't like coming on debates where they do this I'm not in I'm not a religious person I don't understand this so I don't come that and they said and I used to do rohit's show and the others you know in the channel so I said yeah you know what I mean this is this is kind of a perception is my show will never cross the you know the lakshman Rekha you pick up any of


the lakshman Rekha you pick up any of my shoes I won't let anybody disrespect my guest yeah we can fight on uh the the point that we are discussing there could be an ideological war there could be uh you know logical War uh war of opinion but it won't get personal and the moment I feel it's getting personal I'll say stop right here many people Let it Loose okay foreign that no nothing doing because I know you'll be friends after this yeah but my show you know would I don't want that dent on my show which people don't realize they see these spokespersons of various political parties that they choose the the party or the candidate so that they can fight for their rights they are fighting for them yeah no you don't need to fight for them there is an ideological fight that should be there or if there is a difference of opinion Let It Be There I have seen it in my um why would you be uh people citizen at large should understand that governments


people citizen at large should understand that governments need to fight for their rights for they have to work for their uh betterment and development you don't have to work for them foreign it's too too filled with agenda artists you think I'm going to behave like those mams who have left the place and now they say look at this no if you love this place if you have passion for journalism if you uh really want to be connected with the public with the citizens at Large this is your place and I would never say that don't be here because it's full of Filth and um things have changed no uh come here and see it for yourself because for me it's a beautiful platform where you can say what you think uh is uh needed to be changed where you can tell people that this is right and this is wrong and where you can tell the government and tell the people who are responsible that you know what if you don't do things better we are right here to hold you by your caller but


are right here to hold you by your caller but people say that Abu Freedom lots of people say that um truth to Powers people aren't doing that journalists aren't doing that anymore in India is that true I don't know why do they say this everything is here in public digital media is for example or if I go to a place where news is happening I'm not the only one who's reaching there there are 10 000 different YouTubers who are reaching there can you twist it is this the time when you can actually want to do what you want to and you can make an agenda this is not the place yeah there are people who used to do it because you know they were the only people who could reach there and who could do things today you can't do that today things are more transparent than they were ever today if you think someone is kind of trying to play up to the agenda you would figure it out right now there are different ways if I'm standing at this angle I look at


ways if I'm standing at this angle I look at this gamla a pot in a different way you are at a different angle you may see it at a different way you can use 10 different sentences to explain and I would use 10 different uh sentences but what happens is that people who like your ideology would see only your but and abuse my 10 parts people who like me would abuse you for using those 10 lines thing is there will be your filter there'll be my filter but you can't take away from the fact that there is a gambler there's a gambler You Can't Hide You can give a little bit of filtering or tinkering is what journalists with an agenda can do but the facts Q cannot hide and they know it everybody know uh every single person knows it in heart but there are that there are restrictions which are there and there's like you know the freedoms are gone it's not it's democracy at peril which card I told you victim card victim card when you


card I told you victim card victim card when you don't get anything you start playing that victim card you start saying oh we left that place because it is so much full of Filth it's better you know to start our own YouTube channel and say what you want to say or write what you want to do also it's been you are on television and you say TV mode that's another thing that I have seen because you are trying to do your journalism and say in telling people don't watch TV I can't understand that other uh aspect of some journalists who say that it's called a doctorate of doglapan um and I just look at them and I smile and I say you know uh when you would look at yourself in the mirror you would know what the truth is and what you did but interesting part is that they would look at the mirror and they say hey foreign [Music] you get that kind of arrogance I don't think you can do good journalism you can't be a good artist also


good journalism you can't be a good artist also stage frightening audience in the podcast and she was saying that before every show you need to have that little bit of nervousness oh yes oh yes you know so you're not a sensitive person and you don't have self-doubts you cannot anchor well also isn't it yeah my my heart goes boom even now when there is like uh the countdown are you ready 10 9 8 7 and I'm and and sometimes you know I'm like a shivering what will I do what will I do and the moment they say queue I get in some other Zone foreign because I'm into it and if you think uh then God bless you because I know how it feels to sit in the chair and ask questions and and say things there are people who are going to kind of you know abuse you character and one more thing I must tell you if all these people is I I want to tell them all these male anchors character assassination no male anchor you would see


anchors character assassination no male anchor you would see has gone through this character assassination but the moment she's a woman they will kind of you know link you link you and um fine but when you start looking at me as a woman who is of a bad character this you know this is something where the mothers need to enter foreign hmm this is a character assassination yeah and all my friends in the in the industry the male friends um I remember they had just you know kind of uh degraded sexually that is dehumanizing degrading I've seen that no a woman faces it yeah and my father is also on social media you think it doesn't reach my father it does reach my father but then does it affect us initially it used to now it doesn't keep doing what you want to do but you know these are some of them like I know some of the trolls I know them that they are educated they hold jobs I remember when you were in uh you were in a temple and you tripped you


you were in a temple and you tripped you know and ah and you said hello right and then then you said or something like I said Allah because I was about to fall yeah and the next moment okay and then I said because I was in Ram janmabhumi but um hello [Music] did anyone come and stop me and I kept saying Allahu Akbar is spokesperson were also there foreign that's the beauty of my country say s off to you I keep I hope that you always have the strength and and I'm pretty confident you will always have the strength to speak your heart and your mind whenever you are in front of a camera or off camera so all the best to you thank you so much it was lovely talking to you I keep asking questions but this was little different you were asking questions and keep watching podcast with Smitha prakash thank you so much thank you for watching or listening in to this podcast on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this do like and subscribe


have seen this or heard this do like and subscribe foreign [Music]


when we talk of Modi model whatever governance model I think you would appreciate this is a model which has sustained itself for the last 20 22 years and Promises to sustain the future those who have Ruled The Roost over the years will not like India to be on the ascent and that too that fast we are 24 into 7 into 365 party we are ready for any election anytime I don't think a national conference is going with the congress party for a yatra means that they have struck a cord and if it is so then the congress party has to explain whether it is in favor of 370 or against it well I think the the kashmiri Patel Community also believe that their fortunes are not more secure with any other dispensation other than one led by BJP of course if if they are sometimes feeling little aggrieved they would obviously complain to us and they complain to us because they have expectation from us they don't complain to others because they have already tried them on


to others because they have already tried them on the park occupied Jammu Kashmir and see the comparison there they are actually lying struggling yearning praying wishing that they should be made a part of India once the doctor is always being a teacher of medicine for almost 25 years yeah before I put in my paper because the party asked me to take up an assignment everybody thought I have gone off my head I was practicing till 25th of May 2014. the day before I was phoned it I'll go back every moment when I'm not needed here foreign welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash today I converse with Dr jitendra Singh who's a medical doctor by training but decided to join politics he fought an election from udhampur and Jammu and Kashmir in 2014 won that election defeating political stalwart gulam Navi Azad and then again in 2019 got re-elected he's held many portfolios in PM modi's cabinet and currently he's minister of State independent charge for


and currently he's minister of State independent charge for the ministry of Science and Technology and minister of State independent charge Ministry of earth science and minister of State for prime minister's office Personnel public grievance and pensions Department of atomic energy and Department of space Dr jitendra Singh thank you so much for coming on the podcast uh we need to tell our viewers that we are recording this on the 8th of February and the prime minister is about to speak in a short while from now so we have asked you to come win the parliament session is on and of course the entire controversy over crony capitalism and about what Rahul Gandhi has said in Parliament yesterday which is 7th of February he said all this about uh you know accusing the the BJP government uh on crony capitalism and yesterday at least on the 7th of February it seemed like the BJP was on a back foot and not able to uh defend itself very well no no certainly not quite


itself very well no no certainly not quite a contrary to that the all the allegations or insinuations uh sought to be made by the Congress and the other leaders from the opposition are quite unsubstantiated and I think everybody realizes that even on the floor of the house when the leader of opposition was speaking in the righteous about today the chairman repeatedly insisted that he should authenticate the information that he was trying to put across which he did not so they have got used to getting away by making unsubstantiated allegations whereas on the other hand BJP has very effectively put across quite a few points to prove that uh to to to to prove that what they say doesn't carry substance in the sense that taking the instance of this business house that you are referring to they were already dealing with number of congress-led governments and even in the earlier governments it's not that some something that the BJP has discovered only this government discovered it after 2014 they have already


this government discovered it after 2014 they have already been there and very actively engaged with the earlier governments and also some of the present governments in some of these states led by the congress party a b the the the kind of charges that the congress party is is is trying hard to make at the BJP LED government are are the ones which are which already stand proven against them during the 10 years of the UPA rule whether it was uh 2G 3G Commonwealth whatever so I think they are just trying to uh equalize in a vain attempt seeing that the election is drawing closer next year but I don't think this carries any weight and the the it is doesn't carry any conviction with the common people um what you're saying is that the adani group has been there even before 2014 that but that's the current is not disputing that the con that the dining group is doing business even if you if you want to put it this way that they have the they are saying that


this way that they have the they are saying that after 2014 there's a certain increase in the fortunes yeah then I think why should we ignore that the fortunes if it all have increased have been contributed even by the congress-led states Rajasthan and uh they have been equally dealing with adanis and you have abundance equally but yes they they have been there see because that is because their space is limited but it's not something that they have found Untouchable if it was so Unholy dealing with this group then why would they be dealing it's just that their scope of dealing may have been Limited so that's a different story what what the opposition is saying is and uh even in the market people talk this I'm talking about the stock market and all that for a long long time it was it's as if the adani bonds were Sovereign bonds so when foreign investors were also investing it was like okay there's no way this company will sink whether a Malia sinks or whether