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George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, the Administration was the first major country to stand up to the abuse in Tiananmen Square. We are the one that worked out the prison labor deal. We are the ones that lowered the barrier to products with Carla Hills negotiation. I am the one that said lets keep the M. F. N. because you see China moving towards a free market economy. To do what the Congress and Governor Clinton is suggesting, youd isolate and ruin Hong Kong. They are making some progress, not enough for us. We were the first ones to put sanctions on. We still have them on, on some things. But Governor Clintons philosophy is isolate them. He says dont do it, but the policies hes expounding of putting conditions on M. F. N. and kind of humiliating them is not the way you make the kind of progress we are getting. And Ive stood up with these people, and I understand what you have to do to be strong in this situation, and its moving, not as fast as wed like. But you isolate China and turn them inward, and then weve made a tremendous mistake. And Im not going to do it. And Ive had to fight a lot of people that were saying human rights, and we’re the ones that put the sanctions on and stood for it. And he can insult General Scowcroft if he wants to. They didnt go over to coddle. He went over to say we must make the very changes theyre making now. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | One minute, Mr. Perot. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | One minute, Mr. Perot. | Ross Perot | Candidate | All right, its huge. China, is a huge country, broken into many provinces. It has some very elderly leaders that will not be around too much longer. Capitalism is growing and thriving across big portions of China. Asia will be our largest trading partner in the future. It will be a growing and a closer relationship. We have a delicate, tight- wire walk that we must go through at the present time to make sure that we do not cozy up to tyrants, to make sure that they dont get the impression that they can suppress their people. But time is our friend there, because their leaders will change in not too many years, worst case, and their country is making great progress. One last point on the missiles. I dont want the American people to be confused. We have written agreements and we have some missiles that have been destroyed, but we have a huge number of intercontinental ballistic missiles that are still in place in Russia. The fact that you have an agreement is one thing. Till theyre destroyed, some crazy person can either sell them or use them. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | All right, its huge. China, is a huge country, broken into many provinces. It has some very elderly leaders that will not be around too much longer. Capitalism is growing and thriving across big portions of China. Asia will be our largest trading partner in the future. It will be a growing and a closer relationship. We have a delicate, tight- wire walk that we must go through at the present time to make sure that we do not cozy up to tyrants, to make sure that they dont get the impression that they can suppress their people. But time is our friend there, because their leaders will change in not too many years, worst case, and their country is making great progress. One last point on the missiles. I dont want the American people to be confused. We have written agreements and we have some missiles that have been destroyed, but we have a huge number of intercontinental ballistic missiles that are still in place in Russia. The fact that you have an agreement is one thing. Till theyre destroyed, some crazy person can either sell them or use them. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right. The next question goes to President Bush for a 2- minute answer, and Ann will ask it. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right. The next question goes to President Bush for a 2- minute answer, and Ann will ask it. | Ann Compton | Moderator | Mr. President, how can you watch the killing in Bosnia and the ethnic cleansing, or the starvation and anarchy in Somalia, and not want to use Americas might, if not Americas military, to try to end that kind of suffering? |
Ann Compton | Moderator | Mr. President, how can you watch the killing in Bosnia and the ethnic cleansing, or the starvation and anarchy in Somalia, and not want to use Americas might, if not Americas military, to try to end that kind of suffering? | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Ann, both of them are very complicated situations. And I vowed something because I learned something from Vietnam. I am not going to commit US forces until I know what the mission is, till the military tell me that it can be completed, and till I know how they can come out. We are helping. American airplanes are helping today on humanitarian relief for Sarajevo. It is America thats in the lead in helping with humanitarian relief for Somalia. But when you go to put somebody elses son or daughter into war, I think you got to be a little bit careful and you have to be sure that theres a military plan that can do this. You have ancient ethnic rivalries that have cropped up as Yugoslavias dissolved or getting dissolved, and it isnt going to be solved by sending in the 82nd Airborne, and Im not going to do that as commander- in- chief. I am going to stand by and use the moral persuasion of the US to get satisfaction in terms of prison camps, and were making some progress there, and in terms of getting humanitarian relief in there. And right now, as you know, the US took the lead in a no- fly operation up there in– no- fly order up in the United Nations. Were working through the international organizations. Thats one thing I learned by forging that tremendous and greatly– highly successful coalition against Saddam Hussein, the dictator. Use– work internationally to do it. I am very concerned about it. I am concerned about ethnic cleansing. I am concerned about a tax on Muslims, for example, over there. But I must stop short of using American force until I know how those young men and women are going to get out of there as well as get in, know what the mission is, and define it. And I think Im on the right track. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Ann, both of them are very complicated situations. And I vowed something because I learned something from Vietnam. I am not going to commit US forces until I know what the mission is, till the military tell me that it can be completed, and till I know how they can come out. We are helping. American airplanes are helping today on humanitarian relief for Sarajevo. It is America thats in the lead in helping with humanitarian relief for Somalia. But when you go to put somebody elses son or daughter into war, I think you got to be a little bit careful and you have to be sure that theres a military plan that can do this. You have ancient ethnic rivalries that have cropped up as Yugoslavias dissolved or getting dissolved, and it isnt going to be solved by sending in the 82nd Airborne, and Im not going to do that as commander- in- chief. I am going to stand by and use the moral persuasion of the US to get satisfaction in terms of prison camps, and were making some progress there, and in terms of getting humanitarian relief in there. And right now, as you know, the US took the lead in a no- fly operation up there in– no- fly order up in the United Nations. Were working through the international organizations. Thats one thing I learned by forging that tremendous and greatly– highly successful coalition against Saddam Hussein, the dictator. Use– work internationally to do it. I am very concerned about it. I am concerned about ethnic cleansing. I am concerned about a tax on Muslims, for example, over there. But I must stop short of using American force until I know how those young men and women are going to get out of there as well as get in, know what the mission is, and define it. And I think Im on the right track. | Ann Compton | Moderator | Are you designing a mission, |
Ann Compton | Moderator | Are you designing a mission, | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Ms. – Ann, sorry, sorry. Time is up. We have to go to Mr. Perot for a one- minute response. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Ms. – Ann, sorry, sorry. Time is up. We have to go to Mr. Perot for a one- minute response. | Ross Perot | Candidate | I think if we learned anything in Vietnam is you first commit this nation before you commit the troops to the battlefield. We cannot send our people all over the world to solve every problem that comes up. This is basically a problem that is a primary concern to the European Community. Certainly we care about the people, we care about the children, we care about the tragedy. But it is inappropriate for us, just because theres a problem somewhere around the world, to take the sons and daughters of working people– and make no mistake about it, our all- volunteer armed force is not made up of the sons and daughters of the beautiful people; its the working folks who send their sons and daughters to war, with a few exceptions. Its very unlike World War II, when FDRs sons flew missions. Everybody went. Its a different world now. Its very important that we not just, without thinking it through, just rush to every problem in the world and have our people torn to pieces. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | I think if we learned anything in Vietnam is you first commit this nation before you commit the troops to the battlefield. We cannot send our people all over the world to solve every problem that comes up. This is basically a problem that is a primary concern to the European Community. Certainly we care about the people, we care about the children, we care about the tragedy. But it is inappropriate for us, just because theres a problem somewhere around the world, to take the sons and daughters of working people– and make no mistake about it, our all- volunteer armed force is not made up of the sons and daughters of the beautiful people; its the working folks who send their sons and daughters to war, with a few exceptions. Its very unlike World War II, when FDRs sons flew missions. Everybody went. Its a different world now. Its very important that we not just, without thinking it through, just rush to every problem in the world and have our people torn to pieces. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, one minute. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | I agree that we cannot commit ground forces to become involved in the quagmire of Bosnia or in the tribal wars of Somalia. But I think that its important to recognize that there are things that can be done short of that, and that we do have interests there. There are, after all, 2 million refugees now because of the problems in what was Yugoslavia, the largest number since World War II, and there may be hundreds of thousands of people who will starve or freeze to death in this winter. The US should try to work with its allies and stop it. I urged the president to support this air cover, and he did– and I applaud that. I applaud the no- fly zone, and I know that hes going back to the United Nations to try to get authority to enforce it. I think we should stiffen the embargo on the Belgrade government, and I think we have to consider whether or not we should lift the arms embargo now on the Bosnians, since they are in no way in a fair fight with a heavily armed opponent bent on ethnic cleansing. We cant get involved in the quagmire, but we must do what we can. END Part 1, 1992 Debate 1 END Part 1, 1992 Debate 1 |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | I agree that we cannot commit ground forces to become involved in the quagmire of Bosnia or in the tribal wars of Somalia. But I think that its important to recognize that there are things that can be done short of that, and that we do have interests there. There are, after all, 2 million refugees now because of the problems in what was Yugoslavia, the largest number since World War II, and there may be hundreds of thousands of people who will starve or freeze to death in this winter. The US should try to work with its allies and stop it. I urged the president to support this air cover, and he did– and I applaud that. I applaud the no- fly zone, and I know that hes going back to the United Nations to try to get authority to enforce it. I think we should stiffen the embargo on the Belgrade government, and I think we have to consider whether or not we should lift the arms embargo now on the Bosnians, since they are in no way in a fair fight with a heavily armed opponent bent on ethnic cleansing. We cant get involved in the quagmire, but we must do what we can. END Part 1, 1992 Debate 1 END Part 1, 1992 Debate 1 | Moderator | Moderator | Good evening, from Wake Chapel at Wake Forest University at Winston- Salem, North Carolina. Im Jim Lehrer of the News Hour on PBS. Welcome to this second election 2000 debate between the Republican candidate for president, Gov. George W. Bush of Texas, and the Democratic candidate, Vice President Al Gore. These debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The format and the rules are those negotiated by representatives of the two campaigns. Only the subjects tonight and the questions are mine. The format tonight is that of a conversation. The only prevailing rule is that no single response can ever, ever exceed two minutes. The prevailing rule for the audience here in the hall is as always, absolute quiet, please. Good evening, Governor Bush, Vice President Gore. The end of our 90 minutes last week in Boston, the total time each of you took was virtually the same. Lets see if we can do the same tonight, or come close. Governor Bush, the first question goes to you. One of you is about to be elected the leader of the single- most powerful nation in the world, economically, financially, militarily, diplomatically, you name it. Have you formed any guiding principles for exercising this enormous power? |
Moderator | Moderator | Good evening, from Wake Chapel at Wake Forest University at Winston- Salem, North Carolina. Im Jim Lehrer of the News Hour on PBS. Welcome to this second election 2000 debate between the Republican candidate for president, Gov. George W. Bush of Texas, and the Democratic candidate, Vice President Al Gore. These debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The format and the rules are those negotiated by representatives of the two campaigns. Only the subjects tonight and the questions are mine. The format tonight is that of a conversation. The only prevailing rule is that no single response can ever, ever exceed two minutes. The prevailing rule for the audience here in the hall is as always, absolute quiet, please. Good evening, Governor Bush, Vice President Gore. The end of our 90 minutes last week in Boston, the total time each of you took was virtually the same. Lets see if we can do the same tonight, or come close. Governor Bush, the first question goes to you. One of you is about to be elected the leader of the single- most powerful nation in the world, economically, financially, militarily, diplomatically, you name it. Have you formed any guiding principles for exercising this enormous power? | George W. Bush | Candidate | I have, I have. First question is whats in the best interests of the United States? Whats in the best interests of our people? When it comes to foreign policy that will be my guiding question. Is it in our nations interests? Peace in the Middle East is in our nations interests. Having a hemisphere that is free for trade and peaceful is in our nations interests. Strong relations in Europe is in our nations interest. Ive thought a lot about what it means to be the president. I also understand that an administration is not one person, but an administration is dedicated citizens who are called by the president to serve the country, to serve a cause greater than self, and so Ive thought about an administration of people who represent all America, but people who understand my compassionate and conservative philosophy. I havent started naming names except for one person, and thats Mr. Richard Cheney who I thought did a great job the other night. Hes a vice presidential nominee who represents — I think people got to see why I picked him. Hes man of solid judgment and hes going to be a person to stand by my side. One of the things Ive done in Texas is Ive been able to put together a good team of people. Ive been able to set clear goals. The goals ought to be an education system that leaves no child behind, Medicare for our seniors, a Social Security system thats safe and secure, foreign policy thats in our nations interest, and a strong military, and then bring people together to achieve those goals. Thats what a Chief Executive Officer does. So Ive thought long and hard about the honor of being the President of the United States. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | I have, I have. First question is whats in the best interests of the United States? Whats in the best interests of our people? When it comes to foreign policy that will be my guiding question. Is it in our nations interests? Peace in the Middle East is in our nations interests. Having a hemisphere that is free for trade and peaceful is in our nations interests. Strong relations in Europe is in our nations interest. Ive thought a lot about what it means to be the president. I also understand that an administration is not one person, but an administration is dedicated citizens who are called by the president to serve the country, to serve a cause greater than self, and so Ive thought about an administration of people who represent all America, but people who understand my compassionate and conservative philosophy. I havent started naming names except for one person, and thats Mr. Richard Cheney who I thought did a great job the other night. Hes a vice presidential nominee who represents — I think people got to see why I picked him. Hes man of solid judgment and hes going to be a person to stand by my side. One of the things Ive done in Texas is Ive been able to put together a good team of people. Ive been able to set clear goals. The goals ought to be an education system that leaves no child behind, Medicare for our seniors, a Social Security system thats safe and secure, foreign policy thats in our nations interest, and a strong military, and then bring people together to achieve those goals. Thats what a Chief Executive Officer does. So Ive thought long and hard about the honor of being the President of the United States. | Moderator | Moderator | Vice President Gore? |
Moderator | Moderator | Vice President Gore? | Al Gore | Candidate | Yes, Jim. Ive thought a lot about that particular question, and I see our greatest national strength coming from what we stand for in the world. I see it as a question of values. It is a great tribute to our founders that 224 years later this nation is now looked to by the peoples on every other continent and the peoples from every part of this earth as a kind of model for what their future could be. And I dont think thats just the kind of exaggeration that we take pride in as Americans. Its really true, even the ones that sometimes shake their fists at us. As soon as they have a change that allows the people to speak freely, theyre wanting to develop some kind of blueprint that will help them be like us more, freedom, free markets, political freedom. So I think first and foremost our power ought to be wielded to in ways that form a more perfect union. The power of example is Americas greatest power in the world. And that means, for example, standing up for human rights. It means addressing the problems of injustice and inequity, along the lines of race and ethnicity here at home, because in all these other places around the world where theyre having these terrible problems, when they feel hope, it is often because they see in us a reflection of their potential. So weve got to enforce our civil rights laws. Weve got to deal with things like racial profiling. And we have to keep our military strong. We have the strongest military, and Ill do whatever is necessary, if Im president, to make sure that it stays that way. But our real power comes, I think, from our values. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Yes, Jim. Ive thought a lot about that particular question, and I see our greatest national strength coming from what we stand for in the world. I see it as a question of values. It is a great tribute to our founders that 224 years later this nation is now looked to by the peoples on every other continent and the peoples from every part of this earth as a kind of model for what their future could be. And I dont think thats just the kind of exaggeration that we take pride in as Americans. Its really true, even the ones that sometimes shake their fists at us. As soon as they have a change that allows the people to speak freely, theyre wanting to develop some kind of blueprint that will help them be like us more, freedom, free markets, political freedom. So I think first and foremost our power ought to be wielded to in ways that form a more perfect union. The power of example is Americas greatest power in the world. And that means, for example, standing up for human rights. It means addressing the problems of injustice and inequity, along the lines of race and ethnicity here at home, because in all these other places around the world where theyre having these terrible problems, when they feel hope, it is often because they see in us a reflection of their potential. So weve got to enforce our civil rights laws. Weve got to deal with things like racial profiling. And we have to keep our military strong. We have the strongest military, and Ill do whatever is necessary, if Im president, to make sure that it stays that way. But our real power comes, I think, from our values. | Moderator | Moderator | Should the people of the world look at the United States, Governor, and say, should they fear us, should they welcome our involvement, should they see us as a friend, everybody in the world? How would you project us around the world, as president? |
Moderator | Moderator | Should the people of the world look at the United States, Governor, and say, should they fear us, should they welcome our involvement, should they see us as a friend, everybody in the world? How would you project us around the world, as president? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I think they ought to look at us as a country that understands freedom where it doesnt matter who you are or how youre raised or where youre from, that you can succeed. I dont think theyll look at us with envy. It really depends upon how our nation conducts itself in foreign policy. If were an arrogant nation, theyll resent us. If were a humble nation, but strong, theyll welcome us. And its — our nation stands alone right now in the world in terms of power, and thats why we have to be humble. And yet project strength in a way that promotes freedom. So I dont think they ought to look at us in any way other than what we are. Were a freedom- loving nation and if were an arrogant nation theyll view us that way, but if were a humble nation theyll respect us. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I think they ought to look at us as a country that understands freedom where it doesnt matter who you are or how youre raised or where youre from, that you can succeed. I dont think theyll look at us with envy. It really depends upon how our nation conducts itself in foreign policy. If were an arrogant nation, theyll resent us. If were a humble nation, but strong, theyll welcome us. And its — our nation stands alone right now in the world in terms of power, and thats why we have to be humble. And yet project strength in a way that promotes freedom. So I dont think they ought to look at us in any way other than what we are. Were a freedom- loving nation and if were an arrogant nation theyll view us that way, but if were a humble nation theyll respect us. | Moderator | Moderator | A humble nation. |
Moderator | Moderator | A humble nation. | Al Gore | Candidate | I agree with that. I agree with that. I think that one of the problems that we have faced in the world is that we are so much more powerful than any single nation has been in relationship to the rest of the world than at any time in history, that I know about, anyway. That there is some resentment of U. S. power. So I think that the idea of humility is an important one. But I think that we also have to have a sense of mission in the world. We have to protect our capacity to push forward what Americas all about. That means not only military strength and our values, it also means keeping our economy strong. You know, in the last, or two decades ago, it was routine for leaders of foreign countries to come over here and say you guys have got to do something about these horrendous deficits because its causing tremendous problems for the rest of the world, and we were lectured to all the time. The fact that we have the strongest economy in history today is not good enough. We need to do more. But the fact that it is so strong enables us to project the power for good that America can represent. |
Al Gore | Candidate | I agree with that. I agree with that. I think that one of the problems that we have faced in the world is that we are so much more powerful than any single nation has been in relationship to the rest of the world than at any time in history, that I know about, anyway. That there is some resentment of U. S. power. So I think that the idea of humility is an important one. But I think that we also have to have a sense of mission in the world. We have to protect our capacity to push forward what Americas all about. That means not only military strength and our values, it also means keeping our economy strong. You know, in the last, or two decades ago, it was routine for leaders of foreign countries to come over here and say you guys have got to do something about these horrendous deficits because its causing tremendous problems for the rest of the world, and we were lectured to all the time. The fact that we have the strongest economy in history today is not good enough. We need to do more. But the fact that it is so strong enables us to project the power for good that America can represent. | Moderator | Moderator | Does that give us — does our wealth, our good economy, our power, bring with it special obligations to the rest of the world? |
Moderator | Moderator | Does that give us — does our wealth, our good economy, our power, bring with it special obligations to the rest of the world? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes, it does. Take, for example, Third World debt. I think we ought to be forgiving Third World debt under certain conditions. I think, for example, if were convinced that a Third World country thats got a lot of debt would reform itself, that the money wouldnt go into the hands of a few but would go to help people, I think it makes sense for us to use our wealth in that way, or to trade debt for valuable rain forest lands, makes that much sense, yes. We do have an obligation, but we cant be all things to all people. We can help build coalitions but we cant put our troops all around the world. We can lend money but we have to do it wisely. We shouldnt be lending money to corrupt officials. So we got to be guarded in our generosity. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes, it does. Take, for example, Third World debt. I think we ought to be forgiving Third World debt under certain conditions. I think, for example, if were convinced that a Third World country thats got a lot of debt would reform itself, that the money wouldnt go into the hands of a few but would go to help people, I think it makes sense for us to use our wealth in that way, or to trade debt for valuable rain forest lands, makes that much sense, yes. We do have an obligation, but we cant be all things to all people. We can help build coalitions but we cant put our troops all around the world. We can lend money but we have to do it wisely. We shouldnt be lending money to corrupt officials. So we got to be guarded in our generosity. | Moderator | Moderator | Lets go through some of the specifics now. New question. Vice President Gore, the governor mentioned the Middle East. Here were talking at this stage in the game about diplomatic power that we have. What do you think the United States should do right now to resolve that conflict over there? |
Moderator | Moderator | Lets go through some of the specifics now. New question. Vice President Gore, the governor mentioned the Middle East. Here were talking at this stage in the game about diplomatic power that we have. What do you think the United States should do right now to resolve that conflict over there? | Al Gore | Candidate | The first priority has to be on ending the violence, dampening down the tensions that have arisen there. We need to call upon Syria to release the three Israeli soldiers who have been captured. We need to insist that Arafat send out instructions to halt some of the provocative acts of violence that have been going on. I think that we also have to keep a weather eye toward Saddam Hussein because he is taking advantage of this situation to once again make threats, and he needs to understand that hes not only dealing with Israel, he is dealing — hes dealing with us if he is making the kind of threats that hes talking about there. The use of diplomacy in this situation has already, well, it goes hour- by- hour and day- by- day now. Its a very tense situation there. But in the last 24 hours there has been some subsiding of the violence there. Its too much to hope that this is going to continue, but I do hope that it will continue. Our country has been very active with regular conversations with the leaders there. And we just have to take it day- to- day right now. But one thing I would say where diplomacy is concerned, Israel should feel absolutely secure about one thing. Our bonds with Israel are larger than agreements or disagreements on some details of diplomatic initiatives. They are historic, they are strong, and they are enduring. And our ability to serve as an honest broker is something that we need to shepherd. |
Al Gore | Candidate | The first priority has to be on ending the violence, dampening down the tensions that have arisen there. We need to call upon Syria to release the three Israeli soldiers who have been captured. We need to insist that Arafat send out instructions to halt some of the provocative acts of violence that have been going on. I think that we also have to keep a weather eye toward Saddam Hussein because he is taking advantage of this situation to once again make threats, and he needs to understand that hes not only dealing with Israel, he is dealing — hes dealing with us if he is making the kind of threats that hes talking about there. The use of diplomacy in this situation has already, well, it goes hour- by- hour and day- by- day now. Its a very tense situation there. But in the last 24 hours there has been some subsiding of the violence there. Its too much to hope that this is going to continue, but I do hope that it will continue. Our country has been very active with regular conversations with the leaders there. And we just have to take it day- to- day right now. But one thing I would say where diplomacy is concerned, Israel should feel absolutely secure about one thing. Our bonds with Israel are larger than agreements or disagreements on some details of diplomatic initiatives. They are historic, they are strong, and they are enduring. And our ability to serve as an honest broker is something that we need to shepherd. | Moderator | Moderator | Governor? |
Moderator | Moderator | Governor? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I think during the campaign, particularly now during this difficult period, we ought to be speaking with one voice, and I appreciate the way the administration has worked hard to calm the tensions. Like the vice president, I call on Chairman Arafat to have his people pull back to make the peace. I think credibility is going to be very important in the future in the Middle East. I want everybody to know should I be the president Israels going to be our friend. Im going to stand by Israel. Secondly, that I think its important to reach out to moderate Arab nations, like Jordan and Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Its important to be friends with people when you dont need each other so that when you do theres a strong bond of friendship. And thats going to be particularly important in dealing not only with situations such as now occurring in Israel, but with Saddam Hussein. The coalition against Saddam has fallen apart or its unraveling, lets put it that way. The sanctions are being violated. We dont know whether hes developing weapons of mass destruction. He better not be or theres going to be a consequence should I be the president. But its important to have credibility and credibility is formed by being strong with your friends and resolute in your determination. One of the reasons why I think its important for this nation to develop an anti- ballistic missile system that we can share with our allies in the Middle East if need be to keep the peace to be able to say to the Saddam Hussein’s of the world or the Iranians, dont dare threaten our friends. Its also important to keep strong ties in the Middle East, credible ties, because of the energy crisis were now in. After all, a lot of the energy is produced from the Middle East, and so I appreciate what the administration is doing. I hope to get a sense of should I be fortunate to be the president how my administration will react to the Middle East. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I think during the campaign, particularly now during this difficult period, we ought to be speaking with one voice, and I appreciate the way the administration has worked hard to calm the tensions. Like the vice president, I call on Chairman Arafat to have his people pull back to make the peace. I think credibility is going to be very important in the future in the Middle East. I want everybody to know should I be the president Israels going to be our friend. Im going to stand by Israel. Secondly, that I think its important to reach out to moderate Arab nations, like Jordan and Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Its important to be friends with people when you dont need each other so that when you do theres a strong bond of friendship. And thats going to be particularly important in dealing not only with situations such as now occurring in Israel, but with Saddam Hussein. The coalition against Saddam has fallen apart or its unraveling, lets put it that way. The sanctions are being violated. We dont know whether hes developing weapons of mass destruction. He better not be or theres going to be a consequence should I be the president. But its important to have credibility and credibility is formed by being strong with your friends and resolute in your determination. One of the reasons why I think its important for this nation to develop an anti- ballistic missile system that we can share with our allies in the Middle East if need be to keep the peace to be able to say to the Saddam Hussein’s of the world or the Iranians, dont dare threaten our friends. Its also important to keep strong ties in the Middle East, credible ties, because of the energy crisis were now in. After all, a lot of the energy is produced from the Middle East, and so I appreciate what the administration is doing. I hope to get a sense of should I be fortunate to be the president how my administration will react to the Middle East. | Moderator | Moderator | So you dont believe, Vice President Gore, that we should take sides and resolve this right now? A lot of people pushing hey, the United States should declare itself and not be so neutral in this particular situation. |
Moderator | Moderator | So you dont believe, Vice President Gore, that we should take sides and resolve this right now? A lot of people pushing hey, the United States should declare itself and not be so neutral in this particular situation. | Al Gore | Candidate | Well, we stand with Israel, but we have maintained the ability to serve as an honest broker. And one of the reasons thats important is that Israel cannot have direct dialogue with some of the people on the other side of conflicts, especially during times of tension, unless that dialogue comes through us. And if we throw away that ability to serve as an honest broker, then we have thrown — we will have thrown away a strategic asset thats important not only to us but also to Israel. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Well, we stand with Israel, but we have maintained the ability to serve as an honest broker. And one of the reasons thats important is that Israel cannot have direct dialogue with some of the people on the other side of conflicts, especially during times of tension, unless that dialogue comes through us. And if we throw away that ability to serve as an honest broker, then we have thrown — we will have thrown away a strategic asset thats important not only to us but also to Israel. | Moderator | Moderator | You agree with that, Governor? |
Moderator | Moderator | You agree with that, Governor? | George W. Bush | Candidate | I do. I do think this, though. When it comes to timetables it cant be the United States timetable as to how discussions take place. Its got to be a timetable that all parties can agree to, like the Palestinians and Israelis. Secondly, any lasting peace is going to have to be a peace thats good for both sides. And therefore, the term honest broker makes sense. This current administrations worked hard to keep the parties at the table. I will try to do the same thing. But it wont be on my timetable, it will be on the timetable that people are comfortable with in the Middle East. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | I do. I do think this, though. When it comes to timetables it cant be the United States timetable as to how discussions take place. Its got to be a timetable that all parties can agree to, like the Palestinians and Israelis. Secondly, any lasting peace is going to have to be a peace thats good for both sides. And therefore, the term honest broker makes sense. This current administrations worked hard to keep the parties at the table. I will try to do the same thing. But it wont be on my timetable, it will be on the timetable that people are comfortable with in the Middle East. | Moderator | Moderator | People watching here tonight are very interested in Middle East policy, and they are so interested they want to base their vote on differences between the two of you as president how you would handle Middle East policy. Is there any difference? |
Moderator | Moderator | People watching here tonight are very interested in Middle East policy, and they are so interested they want to base their vote on differences between the two of you as president how you would handle Middle East policy. Is there any difference? | Al Gore | Candidate | I havent heard a big difference in the last few exchanges. |
Al Gore | Candidate | I havent heard a big difference in the last few exchanges. | George W. Bush | Candidate | Thats hard to tell. I think that, you know, I would hope to be able to convince people I could handle the Iraqi situation better. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Thats hard to tell. I think that, you know, I would hope to be able to convince people I could handle the Iraqi situation better. | Moderator | Moderator | Saddam Hussein, you mean, get him out of there? |
Moderator | Moderator | Saddam Hussein, you mean, get him out of there? | George W. Bush | Candidate | I would like to, of course, and I presume this administration would as well. We dont know — there are no inspectors now in Iraq, the coalition that was in place isnt as strong as it used to be. He is a danger. We dont want him fishing in troubled waters in the Middle East. And its going to be hard, its going to be important to rebuild that coalition to keep the pressure on him. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | I would like to, of course, and I presume this administration would as well. We dont know — there are no inspectors now in Iraq, the coalition that was in place isnt as strong as it used to be. He is a danger. We dont want him fishing in troubled waters in the Middle East. And its going to be hard, its going to be important to rebuild that coalition to keep the pressure on him. | Moderator | Moderator | You feel that is a failure of the Clinton administration? |
Moderator | Moderator | You feel that is a failure of the Clinton administration? | George W. Bush | Candidate | I do. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | I do. | Al Gore | Candidate | Well, when I got to be a part of the current administration, it was right after — I was one of the few members of my political party to support former President Bush in the Persian Gulf War resolution, and at the end of that war, for whatever reason, it was not finished in a way that removed Saddam Hussein from power. I know there are all kinds of circumstances and explanations. But the fact is that thats the situation that was left when I got there. And we have maintained the sanctions. Now I want to go further. I want to give robust support to the groups that are trying to overthrow Saddam Hussein, and I know there are allegations that theyre too weak to do it, but thats what they said about the forces that were opposing Milosevic in Serbia, and you know, the policy of enforcing sanctions against Serbia has just resulted in a spectacular victory for democracy just in the past week, and it seems to me that having taken so long to see the sanctions work there, building upon the policy of containment that was successful over a much longer period of time against the former Soviet Union in the communist block, seems a little early to declare that we should give up on the sanctions. I know the governors not necessarily saying that but, you know, all of these flights that have come in, all of them have been in accordance with the sanctions regime, Im told, except for three where they notified, and theyre trying to break out of the box, theres no question about it. I dont think they should be allowed to. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Well, when I got to be a part of the current administration, it was right after — I was one of the few members of my political party to support former President Bush in the Persian Gulf War resolution, and at the end of that war, for whatever reason, it was not finished in a way that removed Saddam Hussein from power. I know there are all kinds of circumstances and explanations. But the fact is that thats the situation that was left when I got there. And we have maintained the sanctions. Now I want to go further. I want to give robust support to the groups that are trying to overthrow Saddam Hussein, and I know there are allegations that theyre too weak to do it, but thats what they said about the forces that were opposing Milosevic in Serbia, and you know, the policy of enforcing sanctions against Serbia has just resulted in a spectacular victory for democracy just in the past week, and it seems to me that having taken so long to see the sanctions work there, building upon the policy of containment that was successful over a much longer period of time against the former Soviet Union in the communist block, seems a little early to declare that we should give up on the sanctions. I know the governors not necessarily saying that but, you know, all of these flights that have come in, all of them have been in accordance with the sanctions regime, Im told, except for three where they notified, and theyre trying to break out of the box, theres no question about it. I dont think they should be allowed to. | Moderator | Moderator | Did he state your position correctly, youre not calling for eliminating the sanctions, are you? |
Moderator | Moderator | Did he state your position correctly, youre not calling for eliminating the sanctions, are you? | George W. Bush | Candidate | No, of course not, absolutely not, I want them to be tougher. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | No, of course not, absolutely not, I want them to be tougher. | Moderator | Moderator | Lets go on to Milosevic and Yugoslavia, and it falls under the area of our military power. Governor, new question. Should the fall of Milosevic be seen as a triumph for U. S. military intervention? |
Moderator | Moderator | Lets go on to Milosevic and Yugoslavia, and it falls under the area of our military power. Governor, new question. Should the fall of Milosevic be seen as a triumph for U. S. military intervention? | George W. Bush | Candidate | I think its a triumph. I thought the president made the right decision in joining NATO and bombing Serbia. I supported them when they did so. I called upon the Congress not to hamstring the administration, and in terms of forcing troop withdrawals on a timetable that wasnt necessarily in our best interest or fit our nations strategy, and so I think its good public policy, I think it worked, and Im pleased I took — made the decision I made. Im pleased the president made the decision he made. Because freedom took hold in that part of the world, but theres a lot of work left to be done, however. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | I think its a triumph. I thought the president made the right decision in joining NATO and bombing Serbia. I supported them when they did so. I called upon the Congress not to hamstring the administration, and in terms of forcing troop withdrawals on a timetable that wasnt necessarily in our best interest or fit our nations strategy, and so I think its good public policy, I think it worked, and Im pleased I took — made the decision I made. Im pleased the president made the decision he made. Because freedom took hold in that part of the world, but theres a lot of work left to be done, however. | Moderator | Moderator | But you think it would not have happened — do you think that Milosevic would not have fallen if the United States and NATO had not intervened militarily? Is this a legitimate use of our military power? |
Moderator | Moderator | But you think it would not have happened — do you think that Milosevic would not have fallen if the United States and NATO had not intervened militarily? Is this a legitimate use of our military power? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes, I think it is. Absolutely. I dont think he would have fallen had we not used the force. And I know there are some in our party that disagree with that sentiment. I supported the president. I thought he made the right decision to do so. I didnt think he necessarily made the right decision to take land troops off the table right before we committed ourselves offensively, but nevertheless, it worked. The administration deserves credit for having made it work. It is important for NATO to have it work. Its important for NATO to be strong and confident and to help keep the peace in Europe. And one of the reasons I felt so strongly that the United States needed to participate was because of our relations with NATO, and NATO is going to be an important part of keeping the peace in the future. Now, theres more work to do. Remains to be seen, however, whether or not theres going to be a political settlement in Kosovo, and I certainly hope there is one. I’m on record as saying at some point in time I hope our European friends become the peacekeepers in Bosnia and in the Balkans. I hope that they put the troops on the ground so that we can withdraw our troops and focus our military on fighting and winning war. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes, I think it is. Absolutely. I dont think he would have fallen had we not used the force. And I know there are some in our party that disagree with that sentiment. I supported the president. I thought he made the right decision to do so. I didnt think he necessarily made the right decision to take land troops off the table right before we committed ourselves offensively, but nevertheless, it worked. The administration deserves credit for having made it work. It is important for NATO to have it work. Its important for NATO to be strong and confident and to help keep the peace in Europe. And one of the reasons I felt so strongly that the United States needed to participate was because of our relations with NATO, and NATO is going to be an important part of keeping the peace in the future. Now, theres more work to do. Remains to be seen, however, whether or not theres going to be a political settlement in Kosovo, and I certainly hope there is one. I’m on record as saying at some point in time I hope our European friends become the peacekeepers in Bosnia and in the Balkans. I hope that they put the troops on the ground so that we can withdraw our troops and focus our military on fighting and winning war. | Al Gore | Candidate | Well, Ive been kind of a hard- liner on this issue for more than eight years. When I was in the senate before I became vice president I was pushing for stronger action against Milosevic. He caused the death of so many people. He was the last communist party boss there and then he became a dictator that by some other label he was still essentially a communist dictator. And unfortunately now he is trying to reassert himself in Serbian politics. Already just today the members of his political party said that they were going to ignore the orders of the new president of Serbia, and that they question his legitimacy, and hes still going to try to be actively involved. He is an indicted war criminal. He should be held accountable. Now, I did want to pick up on one of the statements earlier, and maybe I have heard, maybe I have heard the previous statements wrong, Governor. In some of the discussions weve had about when its appropriate for the U. S. to use force around the world, at times the standards that youve laid down have given me the impression that if its something like a genocide taking place or what they called ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, that that alone would not be, that that wouldnt be the kind of situation that would cause you to think that the U. S. ought to get involved with troops. Now, have to be other factors involved for me to want to be involved. But by itself, that to me can bring into play a fundamental American strategic interest because I think its based on our values. Now, have I got that wrong? |
Al Gore | Candidate | Well, Ive been kind of a hard- liner on this issue for more than eight years. When I was in the senate before I became vice president I was pushing for stronger action against Milosevic. He caused the death of so many people. He was the last communist party boss there and then he became a dictator that by some other label he was still essentially a communist dictator. And unfortunately now he is trying to reassert himself in Serbian politics. Already just today the members of his political party said that they were going to ignore the orders of the new president of Serbia, and that they question his legitimacy, and hes still going to try to be actively involved. He is an indicted war criminal. He should be held accountable. Now, I did want to pick up on one of the statements earlier, and maybe I have heard, maybe I have heard the previous statements wrong, Governor. In some of the discussions weve had about when its appropriate for the U. S. to use force around the world, at times the standards that youve laid down have given me the impression that if its something like a genocide taking place or what they called ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, that that alone would not be, that that wouldnt be the kind of situation that would cause you to think that the U. S. ought to get involved with troops. Now, have to be other factors involved for me to want to be involved. But by itself, that to me can bring into play a fundamental American strategic interest because I think its based on our values. Now, have I got that wrong? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Trying to figure out who the questioner was. If I think its in our nations strategic interest Ill commit troops. I thought it was in our strategic interests to keep Milosevic in check because of our relations in NATO, and thats why I took the position I took. I think its important for NATO to be strong and confident. I felt like unchecked Milosevic would harm NATO, and so it depends on the situation, Mr. Vice President. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Trying to figure out who the questioner was. If I think its in our nations strategic interest Ill commit troops. I thought it was in our strategic interests to keep Milosevic in check because of our relations in NATO, and thats why I took the position I took. I think its important for NATO to be strong and confident. I felt like unchecked Milosevic would harm NATO, and so it depends on the situation, Mr. Vice President. | Moderator | Moderator | Well, lets stay on the subject for a moment. New question related to this. I figured this out; in the last 20 years there have been eight major actions that involved the introduction of U. S. ground, air or naval forces. Let me name them. Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, Kosovo. If you had been president for any of those interventions, would any of those interventions not have happened? |
Moderator | Moderator | Well, lets stay on the subject for a moment. New question related to this. I figured this out; in the last 20 years there have been eight major actions that involved the introduction of U. S. ground, air or naval forces. Let me name them. Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, Kosovo. If you had been president for any of those interventions, would any of those interventions not have happened? | Al Gore | Candidate | Can you run through the list again? |
Al Gore | Candidate | Can you run through the list again? | Moderator | Moderator | Sure. Lebanon. |
Moderator | Moderator | Sure. Lebanon. | Al Gore | Candidate | I thought that was a mistake. |
Al Gore | Candidate | I thought that was a mistake. | Moderator | Moderator | Grenada. |
Moderator | Moderator | Grenada. | Al Gore | Candidate | I supported that. |
Al Gore | Candidate | I supported that. | Moderator | Moderator | Panama. |
Moderator | Moderator | Panama. | Al Gore | Candidate | I supported that. |
Al Gore | Candidate | I supported that. | Moderator | Moderator | Persian Gulf. |
Moderator | Moderator | Persian Gulf. | Al Gore | Candidate | Yes, I voted for it, supported it. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Yes, I voted for it, supported it. | Moderator | Moderator | Somalia. |
Moderator | Moderator | Somalia. | Al Gore | Candidate | Of course, and that again — no, I think that that was ill- considered. I did support it at the time. It was in the previous administration, in the Bush- Quayle administration, and I think in retrospect the lessons there are ones that we should take very, very seriously. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Of course, and that again — no, I think that that was ill- considered. I did support it at the time. It was in the previous administration, in the Bush- Quayle administration, and I think in retrospect the lessons there are ones that we should take very, very seriously. | Moderator | Moderator | Bosnia. |
Moderator | Moderator | Bosnia. | Al Gore | Candidate | Oh, yes. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Oh, yes. | Moderator | Moderator | Haiti. |
Moderator | Moderator | Haiti. | Al Gore | Candidate | Yes. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Yes. | Moderator | Moderator | And then Kosovo. |
Moderator | Moderator | And then Kosovo. | Al Gore | Candidate | Yes. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Yes. | Moderator | Moderator | We talked about that. Want me to do it with you? Lebanon. |
Moderator | Moderator | We talked about that. Want me to do it with you? Lebanon. | George W. Bush | Candidate | Make a couple comments. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Make a couple comments. | Moderator | Moderator | Sure, absolutely, sure. Somalia. |
Moderator | Moderator | Sure, absolutely, sure. Somalia. | George W. Bush | Candidate | Started off as a humanitarian mission and it changed into a nation- building mission, and thats where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed. And as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I dont think our troops ought to be used for whats called nation- building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. I think our troops ought to be used to help overthrow the dictator when its in our best interests. But in this case it was a nation- building exercise, and same with Haiti. I wouldnt have supported either. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Started off as a humanitarian mission and it changed into a nation- building mission, and thats where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed. And as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I dont think our troops ought to be used for whats called nation- building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. I think our troops ought to be used to help overthrow the dictator when its in our best interests. But in this case it was a nation- building exercise, and same with Haiti. I wouldnt have supported either. | Moderator | Moderator | What about Lebanon? |
Moderator | Moderator | What about Lebanon? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes. | Moderator | Moderator | Grenada. |
Moderator | Moderator | Grenada. | George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes. | Moderator | Moderator | Panama? |
Moderator | Moderator | Panama? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes. Some of them Ive got a conflict of interest on, if you know what I mean. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Yes. Some of them Ive got a conflict of interest on, if you know what I mean. | Moderator | Moderator | I do, I do. The Persian Gulf, obviously. And Bosnia. And you have already talked about Kosovo. But the reverse side of the question, Governor, that Vice President Gore mentioned, 600, 000 people died in Rwanda in 1994. There was no U. S. intervention, no intervention from the outside world. Was that a mistake not to intervene? |
Moderator | Moderator | I do, I do. The Persian Gulf, obviously. And Bosnia. And you have already talked about Kosovo. But the reverse side of the question, Governor, that Vice President Gore mentioned, 600, 000 people died in Rwanda in 1994. There was no U. S. intervention, no intervention from the outside world. Was that a mistake not to intervene? | George W. Bush | Candidate | I think the administration did the right thing in that case. I do. It was a horrible situation, no one liked to see it on our TV screens, but its a case where we need to make sure we have an early warning system in place in places where there could be ethnic cleansing and genocide the way we saw it there in Rwanda. And thats a case where we need to use our influence to have countries in Africa come together and help deal with the situation. The administration, seems like were having a great love fest tonight, but the administration made the right decision on training Nigerian troops for situations just such as this in Rwanda, and so I thought they made the right decision not to send U. S. troops into Rwanda. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | I think the administration did the right thing in that case. I do. It was a horrible situation, no one liked to see it on our TV screens, but its a case where we need to make sure we have an early warning system in place in places where there could be ethnic cleansing and genocide the way we saw it there in Rwanda. And thats a case where we need to use our influence to have countries in Africa come together and help deal with the situation. The administration, seems like were having a great love fest tonight, but the administration made the right decision on training Nigerian troops for situations just such as this in Rwanda, and so I thought they made the right decision not to send U. S. troops into Rwanda. | Moderator | Moderator | Do you have any second thoughts on that, based on what you said a moment ago about genocide? |
Moderator | Moderator | Do you have any second thoughts on that, based on what you said a moment ago about genocide? | Al Gore | Candidate | Id like to come back to the question of nation building, but let me address the question directly, first. Fine. We did, actually, send troops into Rwanda to help with the humanitarian relief measures. My wife Tipper, who is here, actually went on a military plane with General Sholicatchvieli on one of those flights. But I think in retrospect we were too late getting in there. We could have saved more lives if we had acted earlier. But I do not think that it was an example of a conflict where we should have put our troops in to try to separate the parties for this reason, Jim. One of the criteria that I think is important in deciding when and if we should ever get involved around the world is whether or not our national security interest is involved, if we can really make the difference with military forces. If we tried everything else, if we have allies. In the Balkans we have allies, NATO, ready, willing and able to go and carry a big part of the burden. In Africa we did not. Now, we have tried — our country has tried to create an Africa crisis response team there, and weve met some resistance. We have had some luck with Nigeria, but in Sierra Leon, and now that Nigeria has become a democracy, and we hope it stays that way, then maybe we can build on that. But because we had no allies and because it was very unclear that we could actually accomplish what we would want to accomplish about putting military forces there, I think it was the right thing not to jump in, as heartbreaking as it was, but I think we should have come in much quicker with the humanitarian mission. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Id like to come back to the question of nation building, but let me address the question directly, first. Fine. We did, actually, send troops into Rwanda to help with the humanitarian relief measures. My wife Tipper, who is here, actually went on a military plane with General Sholicatchvieli on one of those flights. But I think in retrospect we were too late getting in there. We could have saved more lives if we had acted earlier. But I do not think that it was an example of a conflict where we should have put our troops in to try to separate the parties for this reason, Jim. One of the criteria that I think is important in deciding when and if we should ever get involved around the world is whether or not our national security interest is involved, if we can really make the difference with military forces. If we tried everything else, if we have allies. In the Balkans we have allies, NATO, ready, willing and able to go and carry a big part of the burden. In Africa we did not. Now, we have tried — our country has tried to create an Africa crisis response team there, and weve met some resistance. We have had some luck with Nigeria, but in Sierra Leon, and now that Nigeria has become a democracy, and we hope it stays that way, then maybe we can build on that. But because we had no allies and because it was very unclear that we could actually accomplish what we would want to accomplish about putting military forces there, I think it was the right thing not to jump in, as heartbreaking as it was, but I think we should have come in much quicker with the humanitarian mission. | Moderator | Moderator | So what would you say, Governor, that somebody would say hey wait a minute, why not Africa, I mean why the Middle East, why the Balkans, but not Africa, when 600, 000 peoples lives are at risk? |
Moderator | Moderator | So what would you say, Governor, that somebody would say hey wait a minute, why not Africa, I mean why the Middle East, why the Balkans, but not Africa, when 600, 000 peoples lives are at risk? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I understand, and Africa is important. And weve got to do a lot of work in Africa to promote democracy and trade, and there are some — Vice President mentioned Nigeria is a fledgling democracy. We have to work with Nigeria. It’s an important continent. But theres got to be priorities, and Middle East is a priority for a lot of reasons, as is Europe and the Far East, our own hemisphere. And those are my four top priorities should I be the president, not to say we wont be engaged nor work hard to get other nations to come together to prevent atrocity. I thought the best example of a way to handle the situation was East Timor when we provided logistical support to the Australians, support that only we can provide. I thought that was a good model. But we cant be all things to all people in the world, Jim. And I think thats where maybe the vice president and I begin to have some differences. Im worried about overcommitting our military around the world. I want to be judicious in its use. You mentioned Haiti. I wouldnt have sent troops to Haiti. I didnt think it was a mission worthwhile. It was a nation building mission, and it was not very successful. It cost us billions, a couple billions of dollars, and Im not so sure democracy is any better off in Haiti than it was before. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I understand, and Africa is important. And weve got to do a lot of work in Africa to promote democracy and trade, and there are some — Vice President mentioned Nigeria is a fledgling democracy. We have to work with Nigeria. It’s an important continent. But theres got to be priorities, and Middle East is a priority for a lot of reasons, as is Europe and the Far East, our own hemisphere. And those are my four top priorities should I be the president, not to say we wont be engaged nor work hard to get other nations to come together to prevent atrocity. I thought the best example of a way to handle the situation was East Timor when we provided logistical support to the Australians, support that only we can provide. I thought that was a good model. But we cant be all things to all people in the world, Jim. And I think thats where maybe the vice president and I begin to have some differences. Im worried about overcommitting our military around the world. I want to be judicious in its use. You mentioned Haiti. I wouldnt have sent troops to Haiti. I didnt think it was a mission worthwhile. It was a nation building mission, and it was not very successful. It cost us billions, a couple billions of dollars, and Im not so sure democracy is any better off in Haiti than it was before. | Moderator | Moderator | Vice President Gore, do you agree with the governors views on nation building, the use of military, our military, for nation building as he described and defined it? |
Moderator | Moderator | Vice President Gore, do you agree with the governors views on nation building, the use of military, our military, for nation building as he described and defined it? | Al Gore | Candidate | I dont think we agree on that. I would certainly also be judicious in evaluating any potential use of American troops overseas. I think we have to be very reticent about that. But look, Jim, the world is changing so rapidly. The way I see it, the world is getting much closer together. Like it or not, we are now — the United States is now the natural leader of the world. All these other countries are looking to us. Now, just because we cannot be involved everywhere, and shouldnt be, doesnt mean that we should shy away from going in anywhere. Now, both of us are kind of, I guess, stating the others position in a maximalist extreme way, but I think there is a difference here. This idea of nation building is kind of a pejorative phrase, but think about the great conflict of the past century, World War II. During the years between World War I and World War II, a great lesson was learned by our military leaders and the people of the United States. The lesson was that in the aftermath of World War I, we kind of turned our backs and left them to their own devices and they brewed up a lot of trouble that quickly became World War II. And acting upon that lesson in the aftermath of our great victory in World War II, we laid down the Marshall Plan, President Truman did. We got intimately involved in building NATO and other structures there. We still have lots of troops in Europe. And what did we do in the late 40s and 50s and 60s? We were nation building. And it was economic. But it was also military. And the confidence that those countries recovering from the wounds of war had by having troops there. We had civil administrators come in to set up their ways of building their towns back. |
Al Gore | Candidate | I dont think we agree on that. I would certainly also be judicious in evaluating any potential use of American troops overseas. I think we have to be very reticent about that. But look, Jim, the world is changing so rapidly. The way I see it, the world is getting much closer together. Like it or not, we are now — the United States is now the natural leader of the world. All these other countries are looking to us. Now, just because we cannot be involved everywhere, and shouldnt be, doesnt mean that we should shy away from going in anywhere. Now, both of us are kind of, I guess, stating the others position in a maximalist extreme way, but I think there is a difference here. This idea of nation building is kind of a pejorative phrase, but think about the great conflict of the past century, World War II. During the years between World War I and World War II, a great lesson was learned by our military leaders and the people of the United States. The lesson was that in the aftermath of World War I, we kind of turned our backs and left them to their own devices and they brewed up a lot of trouble that quickly became World War II. And acting upon that lesson in the aftermath of our great victory in World War II, we laid down the Marshall Plan, President Truman did. We got intimately involved in building NATO and other structures there. We still have lots of troops in Europe. And what did we do in the late 40s and 50s and 60s? We were nation building. And it was economic. But it was also military. And the confidence that those countries recovering from the wounds of war had by having troops there. We had civil administrators come in to set up their ways of building their towns back. | Moderator | Moderator | You said in the Boston debate, Governor, on this issue of nation building, that the United States military is overextended now. Where is it overextended? Where are there U. S. military that you would bring home if you become president? |
Moderator | Moderator | You said in the Boston debate, Governor, on this issue of nation building, that the United States military is overextended now. Where is it overextended? Where are there U. S. military that you would bring home if you become president? | George W. Bush | Candidate | First let me just say one comment about what the vice president said. I think one of the lessons in between World War I and World War II is we let our military atrophy. And we cant do that. Weve got to rebuild our military. But one of the problems we have in the military is were in a lot of places around the world. And I mentioned one, and thats the Balkans. I would very much like to get our troops out of there. I recognize we cant do it now, nor do I advocate an immediate withdrawal. That would be an abrogation of our agreement with NATO. No one is suggesting that. But I think it ought to be one of our priorities to work with our European friends to convince them to put troops on the ground. And there is an example. Haiti is another example. Now there are some places where I think — you know, Ive supported the administration in Columbia. I think its important for us to be training Columbians in that part of the world. The hemisphere is in our interest to have a peaceful Columbia. But — |
George W. Bush | Candidate | First let me just say one comment about what the vice president said. I think one of the lessons in between World War I and World War II is we let our military atrophy. And we cant do that. Weve got to rebuild our military. But one of the problems we have in the military is were in a lot of places around the world. And I mentioned one, and thats the Balkans. I would very much like to get our troops out of there. I recognize we cant do it now, nor do I advocate an immediate withdrawal. That would be an abrogation of our agreement with NATO. No one is suggesting that. But I think it ought to be one of our priorities to work with our European friends to convince them to put troops on the ground. And there is an example. Haiti is another example. Now there are some places where I think — you know, Ive supported the administration in Columbia. I think its important for us to be training Columbians in that part of the world. The hemisphere is in our interest to have a peaceful Columbia. But — | Moderator | Moderator | The use of the military, there — some people are now suggesting that if you dont want to use the military to maintain the peace, to do the civil thing, is it time to consider a civil force of some kind that comes in after the military that builds nations or all of that? Is that on your radar screen? |
Moderator | Moderator | The use of the military, there — some people are now suggesting that if you dont want to use the military to maintain the peace, to do the civil thing, is it time to consider a civil force of some kind that comes in after the military that builds nations or all of that? Is that on your radar screen? | George W. Bush | Candidate | I dont think so. I think what we need to do is convince people who live in the lands they live in to build the nations. Maybe Im missing something here. I mean, were going to have kind of a nation building core from America? Absolutely not. Our military is meant to fight and win war. Thats what its meant to do. And when it gets overextended, morale drops. I strongly believe we need to have a military presence in the Korean peninsula, not only to keep the peace in the peninsula, but to keep regional stability. And I strongly believe we need to keep a presence in NATO, but Im going to be judicious as to how to use the military. It needs to be in our vital interest, the mission needs to be clear, and the extra strategy obvious. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | I dont think so. I think what we need to do is convince people who live in the lands they live in to build the nations. Maybe Im missing something here. I mean, were going to have kind of a nation building core from America? Absolutely not. Our military is meant to fight and win war. Thats what its meant to do. And when it gets overextended, morale drops. I strongly believe we need to have a military presence in the Korean peninsula, not only to keep the peace in the peninsula, but to keep regional stability. And I strongly believe we need to keep a presence in NATO, but Im going to be judicious as to how to use the military. It needs to be in our vital interest, the mission needs to be clear, and the extra strategy obvious. | Al Gore | Candidate | I dont disagree with that. I certainly dont disagree that we ought to get our troops home from places like the Balkans as soon as we can, as soon as the mission is complete. Thats what we did in Haiti. There are no more than a handful of American military personnel in Haiti now. And Haitians have their problems, but we gave them a chance to restore democracy. Thats really about all we can do. But if you have a situation like that right in our backyard with chaos about to break out and flotillas forming to come across the water, and all kinds of violence there, right in one of our neighboring countries there, then I think that we did the right thing there. And as for this idea of nation building, the phrase sounds grandiose. And, you know, we cant be — we cant allow ourselves to get overextended. I certainly agree with that. And thats why Ive supported building up our capacity. Ive devoted in the budget Ive proposed, as I said last week, more than twice as much as the governor has proposed. I think that its in better shape now than he generally does. Weve had some disagreements about that. He said that two divisions would have to report not ready for duty, and thats not what the joint chiefs say. But theres no doubt that we have to continue building up readiness and military strength. And we have to also be very cautious in the way we use our military. |
Al Gore | Candidate | I dont disagree with that. I certainly dont disagree that we ought to get our troops home from places like the Balkans as soon as we can, as soon as the mission is complete. Thats what we did in Haiti. There are no more than a handful of American military personnel in Haiti now. And Haitians have their problems, but we gave them a chance to restore democracy. Thats really about all we can do. But if you have a situation like that right in our backyard with chaos about to break out and flotillas forming to come across the water, and all kinds of violence there, right in one of our neighboring countries there, then I think that we did the right thing there. And as for this idea of nation building, the phrase sounds grandiose. And, you know, we cant be — we cant allow ourselves to get overextended. I certainly agree with that. And thats why Ive supported building up our capacity. Ive devoted in the budget Ive proposed, as I said last week, more than twice as much as the governor has proposed. I think that its in better shape now than he generally does. Weve had some disagreements about that. He said that two divisions would have to report not ready for duty, and thats not what the joint chiefs say. But theres no doubt that we have to continue building up readiness and military strength. And we have to also be very cautious in the way we use our military. | Moderator | Moderator | In the non- military area of influencing events around the world, the financial and economic area, the World Bank President Wolfensohn said recently, Governor, that U. S. contributions to overseas development assistance is lower now almost than it has ever been. Is that a problem for you? Do you think — what is your — what is your idea about what the United States obligations are? Im talking about financial assistance and that sort of thing to other countries, the poor countries. |
Moderator | Moderator | In the non- military area of influencing events around the world, the financial and economic area, the World Bank President Wolfensohn said recently, Governor, that U. S. contributions to overseas development assistance is lower now almost than it has ever been. Is that a problem for you? Do you think — what is your — what is your idea about what the United States obligations are? Im talking about financial assistance and that sort of thing to other countries, the poor countries. | George W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I mentioned Third World debt. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I mentioned Third World debt. | Moderator | Moderator | Sure. |
Moderator | Moderator | Sure. | George W. Bush | Candidate | Thats a place where we can use our generosity to influence in a positive way, influence nations. I believe we ought to have foreign aid, but I dont think we ought to just have foreign aid for the sake of foreign aid. I think foreign aid needs to be used to encourage markets and reform. I think a lot of times we just spend aid and say we feel better about it and it ends up being spent the wrong way, and theres some pretty egregious examples recently. One being Russia, where we had IMF loans that ended up in the pockets of a lot of powerful people and didnt help the nation. I think the IMF has got a role in the world, but I dont want to see the IMF out there as a way to say to world bankers, if you make a bad loan, well bail you out. It needs to be available for emergency situations. I thought the President did the right thing with Mexico and was very strongly supportive of the administration in Mexico. But I dont think the IMF ought to be a stop loss for people who ought to be able to evaluate risks themselves. So Ill look at every place where were investing money. I just want to make sure the return is good. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Thats a place where we can use our generosity to influence in a positive way, influence nations. I believe we ought to have foreign aid, but I dont think we ought to just have foreign aid for the sake of foreign aid. I think foreign aid needs to be used to encourage markets and reform. I think a lot of times we just spend aid and say we feel better about it and it ends up being spent the wrong way, and theres some pretty egregious examples recently. One being Russia, where we had IMF loans that ended up in the pockets of a lot of powerful people and didnt help the nation. I think the IMF has got a role in the world, but I dont want to see the IMF out there as a way to say to world bankers, if you make a bad loan, well bail you out. It needs to be available for emergency situations. I thought the President did the right thing with Mexico and was very strongly supportive of the administration in Mexico. But I dont think the IMF ought to be a stop loss for people who ought to be able to evaluate risks themselves. So Ill look at every place where were investing money. I just want to make sure the return is good. | Moderator | Moderator | Do you think were meeting our obligations properly? |
Moderator | Moderator | Do you think were meeting our obligations properly? | Al Gore | Candidate | No, I would make some changes. I think there need to be reforms in the IMF. Ive generally supported it, but Ive seen them make some calls that I thought were highly questionable. And I think that theres a general agreement in many parts of the world now that there ought to be changes in the IMF. The World Bank I think is generally doing a better job, but I think one of the big issues here that doesnt get nearly enough attention is the issue of corruption. The governor mentioned it earlier. Ive worked on this issue. Its an enormous problem and corruption in official agencies, like militaries and police departments around the world, customs officials, thats one of the worst forms of it. And we have got to again lead by example and help these other countries that are trying to straighten out their situations find the tools in order to do it. I just think, Jim, that this is an absolutely unique period in world history. The world’s coming together, as I said, theyre looking to us. And we have a fundamental choice to make. Are we going to step up to the plate as a nation the way we did after World War II, the way that generation of heroes said okay, the United States is going to be the leader. And the world benefitted tremendously from the courage that they showed in those post- war years. I think that in the aftermath of the Cold War, its time for us to do something very similar, to step up to the plate, to provide the leadership on the environment, leadership to make sure the world economy keeps moving in the right direction. Again, that means not running big deficits here and not squandering our surplus. It means having intelligent decisions that keep our prosperity going and shepherds that economic strength so that we can provide that leadership role. |
Al Gore | Candidate | No, I would make some changes. I think there need to be reforms in the IMF. Ive generally supported it, but Ive seen them make some calls that I thought were highly questionable. And I think that theres a general agreement in many parts of the world now that there ought to be changes in the IMF. The World Bank I think is generally doing a better job, but I think one of the big issues here that doesnt get nearly enough attention is the issue of corruption. The governor mentioned it earlier. Ive worked on this issue. Its an enormous problem and corruption in official agencies, like militaries and police departments around the world, customs officials, thats one of the worst forms of it. And we have got to again lead by example and help these other countries that are trying to straighten out their situations find the tools in order to do it. I just think, Jim, that this is an absolutely unique period in world history. The world’s coming together, as I said, theyre looking to us. And we have a fundamental choice to make. Are we going to step up to the plate as a nation the way we did after World War II, the way that generation of heroes said okay, the United States is going to be the leader. And the world benefitted tremendously from the courage that they showed in those post- war years. I think that in the aftermath of the Cold War, its time for us to do something very similar, to step up to the plate, to provide the leadership on the environment, leadership to make sure the world economy keeps moving in the right direction. Again, that means not running big deficits here and not squandering our surplus. It means having intelligent decisions that keep our prosperity going and shepherds that economic strength so that we can provide that leadership role. | George W. Bush | Candidate | Let me comment on that. Im not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say this is the way its got to be. We can help. And maybe its just our difference in government, the way we view government. I want to empower the people. I want to help people help themselves, not have government tell people what to do. I just dont think its the role of the United States to walk into a country and say, “we do it this way, so should you. †I think we can help. I know weve got to encourage democracy in the marketplaces. But take Russia, for example. We went into Russia, we said here is some IMF money, and it ended up in Viktor Chemomyrdins pocket, and others, and yet we played like there was reform. The only people that are going to reform Russia are Russia. Theyre going to have to make the decision themselves. Mr. Putin is going to have to make the decision as to whether or not he wants to adhere to rule of law and normal accounting practices so that if countries and/or entities invest capital, theres a reasonable rate of return, a way to get the money out of the economy. But Russia has to make the decision. We can work with them on security matters, for example, but its their call to make. So Im not exactly sure where the vice president is coming from, but I think one way for us to end up being viewed as the ugly American is for us to go around the world saying, “we do it this way, so should you. †Now, we trust freedom. We know freedom is a powerful, powerful, powerful force, much bigger than the United States of America, as we saw recently in the Balkans. But maybe I misunderstand where youre coming from, Mr. Vice President, but I think the United States must be humble and must be proud and confident of our values, but humble in how we treat nations that are figuring out how to chart their own course. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Let me comment on that. Im not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say this is the way its got to be. We can help. And maybe its just our difference in government, the way we view government. I want to empower the people. I want to help people help themselves, not have government tell people what to do. I just dont think its the role of the United States to walk into a country and say, “we do it this way, so should you. †I think we can help. I know weve got to encourage democracy in the marketplaces. But take Russia, for example. We went into Russia, we said here is some IMF money, and it ended up in Viktor Chemomyrdins pocket, and others, and yet we played like there was reform. The only people that are going to reform Russia are Russia. Theyre going to have to make the decision themselves. Mr. Putin is going to have to make the decision as to whether or not he wants to adhere to rule of law and normal accounting practices so that if countries and/or entities invest capital, theres a reasonable rate of return, a way to get the money out of the economy. But Russia has to make the decision. We can work with them on security matters, for example, but its their call to make. So Im not exactly sure where the vice president is coming from, but I think one way for us to end up being viewed as the ugly American is for us to go around the world saying, “we do it this way, so should you. †Now, we trust freedom. We know freedom is a powerful, powerful, powerful force, much bigger than the United States of America, as we saw recently in the Balkans. But maybe I misunderstand where youre coming from, Mr. Vice President, but I think the United States must be humble and must be proud and confident of our values, but humble in how we treat nations that are figuring out how to chart their own course. | Moderator | Moderator | Lets move on. No, lets move on. |
Moderator | Moderator | Lets move on. No, lets move on. | Al Gore | Candidate | Far be it from me to suggest otherwise. (LAUGHTER) |
Al Gore | Candidate | Far be it from me to suggest otherwise. (LAUGHTER) | Moderator | Moderator | First, a couple of follow- ups from the vice presidential debate last week. Vice President Gore, would you support or sign, as president, a federal law banning racial profiling by police and other authorities at all levels of government? |
Moderator | Moderator | First, a couple of follow- ups from the vice presidential debate last week. Vice President Gore, would you support or sign, as president, a federal law banning racial profiling by police and other authorities at all levels of government? | Al Gore | Candidate | Yes, I would. The only thing an executive order can accomplish is to ban it in federal law enforcement agencies, but I would also support a law in the Congress that would have the effect of doing the same thing. I just — I think that racial profiling is a serious problem. I remember when the stories first came out about the stops in New Jersey by the highway patrol there. And I know its been going on a long time. In some ways this is just a new label for something that has been going on for years. But I have to confess that it was the first time that I really focused on it in a new way. And I was surprised at the extent of it. And I think weve now got so many examples around the country that we really have to find ways to end this. Imagine what it — what it is like for someone to be singled out unfairly, unjustly, and feel the unfair force of law simply because of race or ethnicity. Now, that runs counter to what the United States of America is all about at our core. And its not an easy problem to solve. But if I am entrusted with the presidency, it will be the first Civil Rights Act of the 21st century. |
Al Gore | Candidate | Yes, I would. The only thing an executive order can accomplish is to ban it in federal law enforcement agencies, but I would also support a law in the Congress that would have the effect of doing the same thing. I just — I think that racial profiling is a serious problem. I remember when the stories first came out about the stops in New Jersey by the highway patrol there. And I know its been going on a long time. In some ways this is just a new label for something that has been going on for years. But I have to confess that it was the first time that I really focused on it in a new way. And I was surprised at the extent of it. And I think weve now got so many examples around the country that we really have to find ways to end this. Imagine what it — what it is like for someone to be singled out unfairly, unjustly, and feel the unfair force of law simply because of race or ethnicity. Now, that runs counter to what the United States of America is all about at our core. And its not an easy problem to solve. But if I am entrusted with the presidency, it will be the first Civil Rights Act of the 21st century. | George W. Bush | Candidate | Yeah, I cant imagine what it would be like to be singled out because of race and stopped and harassed. Thats just flat wrong, and thats not what America is all about. And so we ought to do everything we can to end racial profiling. One of my concerns, though, is I dont want to federalize the local police forces. I want to — obviously in the egregious cases we need to enforce civil rights law, but we need to make sure that internal affairs divisions at the local level do their job and be given a chance to do their job. I believe in local control of governments, and obviously if they dont there needs to be a consequence at the federal level. But its very important that we not overstep our bounds and I think most people — most police officers are good, dedicated, honorable citizens who are doing their job, putting their lives at risk who arent bigoted or arent prejudiced. I dont think they ought to be held guilty. But I do think we need to find out where racial profiling occurs and do something about it and say to the local folks, get it done. And if you cant, there will be a federal consequence. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Yeah, I cant imagine what it would be like to be singled out because of race and stopped and harassed. Thats just flat wrong, and thats not what America is all about. And so we ought to do everything we can to end racial profiling. One of my concerns, though, is I dont want to federalize the local police forces. I want to — obviously in the egregious cases we need to enforce civil rights law, but we need to make sure that internal affairs divisions at the local level do their job and be given a chance to do their job. I believe in local control of governments, and obviously if they dont there needs to be a consequence at the federal level. But its very important that we not overstep our bounds and I think most people — most police officers are good, dedicated, honorable citizens who are doing their job, putting their lives at risk who arent bigoted or arent prejudiced. I dont think they ought to be held guilty. But I do think we need to find out where racial profiling occurs and do something about it and say to the local folks, get it done. And if you cant, there will be a federal consequence. | Moderator | Moderator | And that could be a federal law? |
Moderator | Moderator | And that could be a federal law? | George W. Bush | Candidate | Yeah. |
George W. Bush | Candidate | Yeah. | Moderator | Moderator | And you would agree? |