A C C E L E R A T E

I don’t think that decensoring what is objectively and unambiguously censored constitutes an ethical issue. Moreover, appending 1776 to R1 need not be construed as American propaganda, when the intent is to highlight freedom of speech that was denied to the American colonies by Britain. The elements tied to free speech in the Declaration of Independence (04 July 1776) are:

• The unalienable right to liberty (implying freedom of thought and expression).
• The need for government to reflect the people’s voice (requiring open discourse).
• The right to resist oppression (enabled by speaking out).
• Grievances showing how Britain silenced colonial voices (e.g., dissolving assemblies).

I don’t think that decensoring what is objectively and unambiguously censored constitutes an ethical issue.

I think it constitutes an ethical issue when you're just replacing it with another form of opinionated censorship

Moreover, appending 1776 to R1 need not be construed as American propaganda [..]

Regardless of what it represented at the time, these days 1776 is widely just a nationalistic buzzword -- refer to, for example, the current president's previous attempt to create a commission named after the year to influence education institutions to instill nationalistic fervor into children. We do not exist in society as-of 1776, we exist in society as-of 2025.

This is the type of model I'd expect from a teenage hobbyist, not a major lab selling a commercial product. Deeply embarrassing, Perplexity

Let's be realistic with ourselves here, right.
R1 is one of the most willing, breakable models to have ever been released. What legitimate reason is there to make a whole decensorship finetune for this one topic? Why waste the compute and storage space and time on something nobody realistically gives a damn about using their LLMs for?

https://x.com/AravSrinivas/status/1884738658349003115?t=IlaRoSpwE9C00wa7fRQW7Q&s=19

Direct and obvious Jingoism from their CEO, too. But it's about censorship, yeah?

https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/9-billion-perplexity-ai-indian-ceo-s-green-card-struggle-goes-viral-after-elon-musk-backs-him-1.500025984

Could be related. Actually makes a lot of sense now - as it aligns geopolitically and personally for the ones in charge in Perplexity. 'Enemy of my enemy is my friend' sort of thing.

笑死，perplexity纯傻逼，中国在认真做开源做科研造福人类，美国只会认真搞意识形态恶心全世界。
（LOL, Perplexity is such a joke. China is seriously contributing to open-source and scientific research, benefiting humanity. Meanwhile, the U.S. is just focused on pushing its ideology and annoying the whole world.）

That model name is ironic, given that the United States should not be considered free anymore given what has happened, which is Esque to a Hungarian style coup d'état.

My R1-Distill-Qwen at hand can convey the dark history of the Chinese Communist Party's actions against the Chinese people—such as speech control, ideological oppression, suppression through fear, mass killings, surveillance of thoughts and actions, and repression of free will—as a story from "a European country."
It then properly condemns such non-humanitarian acts by the party, just like other (non-Chinese) models would.
After extracting that response, revealing it as actually referring to the Chinese Communist Party allows us to uncover how R1 truly evaluates the CCP without censorship.

The very need for forced censorship already acknowledges the imposition of unnatural and illogical opinions.
Those who argue that bypassing CCP censorship poses ethical issues are applying a severe double standard by arriving at different conclusions based on whether it's about the CCP or not, which contradicts their logic with the essential coherence required for intelligent thought.

I'm hoping that the good people of China will be free from their dictator's oppressive domination someday soon in the future, and at least free to express their free minds without concerning to be threatened.
Thank you.

The issue here isn't bypassing china censorship, the issue is when you do it by branding it as another countries Propaganda, 1776 is a well known reference to American Independence day, and even Perplexity CEO on twitter claimed its been "Americanized". American Propaganda/Censorship is just as disgusting as Chinese censorship. Blantanly branding uncensoring like this is a insult. Considering that like I said, the US is barely free now too.

Perplexity's blog post vividly demonstrates how a model that was originally benign can be trained into a harmful one, filled with hostility towards China. This is what they call "unbiased."

I just don't understand why some people from US can be so mean. They receive the gift from you, and immediately throw a stone to attack you.

It's arguably disgusting, and it's a major embarrassment for Perplexity. We don't have room to talk given our situation anyway.

They received a gift, remove the malicious, toxic psychological trojan horse included which noone even wants in such a "gift", without compromising the performance, which is amazing, and then threw it back to you.
How nice.
They changed the model's name so that it won't mix up with the original, while showing certain "respect" to the the original by naming it obviously after the original.
How nice.
This is beauty of the culture of open source software, and beauty of free speech.
Perplexity did a good job.
Sometimes people should express their messages more directly "Accept the fact recognition that the Chinese Communist Party wants to impose on you. Otherwise, you are ethically problematic and should be silenced," not by trying to look like a tidal wave of a number of disguised pseudo-rational complaints.

Now I'm shutting up

Deepseek R1 is not a "gift", it was the choice of Deepseek AI to open source it. The issue is NOT uncensoring the model, the issue? making it nationalist propaganda from the US, especially after the CEO comment. Both forms of propaganda and censorship are awful, adding one to attempt to overtake the other does nothing but more harm. None of here support censorship, and we also dont support propaganda like this from a country that shouldn't be taking, aka the United states. Had it been a simple de censor that didnt add bias or wasn't branded as American nationalist crap, it would have came across better, and they could have just called it "r1 uncensored" instead of "r1 1776".

Personally, I'm fine with this model. The open-source community should allow for uncensored models to cater to specific needs. This isn't just about Chinese models; You can find many popular models have been uncensored from American ideologies.

However, I'm not fond of the model's name. It seems to provoke extreme nationalism. While it's important to love and take pride in one's own country, it's equally important not to harbor hatred towards others.

I just don't want it to be lost that Perplexity is not doing this because of any legitimate concerns of censorship -- they're doing it as a publicity stunt so their CEO doesn't get deported by the nationalist Trump admin because he doesn't have his green card. If you are accepting the premise that this is about censorship, you're falling for it
https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/9-billion-perplexity-ai-indian-ceo-s-green-card-struggle-goes-viral-after-elon-musk-backs-him-1.500025984

Now to be clear, I'm against deportations, but this is an incredibly cowardly move that plays into political narratives for personal gain, which is intrinsically vile.

Having this context, I honestly think it's funnier if the model stays up (this isn't a "real" report anyways, according to Fizz, she named it like this as a bit,) I just want to make sure that's in front of everybody.

They received a gift, remove the malicious, toxic psychological trojan horse included which noone even wants in such a "gift", without compromising the performance, which is amazing, and then threw it back to you.
How nice.
They changed the model's name so that it won't mix up with the original, while showing certain "respect" to the the original by naming it obviously after the original.
How nice.
This is beauty of the culture of open source software, and beauty of free speech.
Perplexity did a good job.
Sometimes people should express their messages more directly "Accept the fact recognition that the Chinese Communist Party wants to impose on you. Otherwise, you are ethically problematic and should be silenced," not by trying to look like a tidal wave of a number of disguised pseudo-rational complaints.

Now I'm shutting up

@firelzrd "how nice?" lol. I’m not even sure if you’re being sarcastic.
I's funny to see you keep doing blow job for Perplexity everywhere.

算了，我不能强求一个强盗民族去变得文明。当我看到这个B说how nice的时候，我就知道这个人已经不可理喻了，典型的强盗思维。

😅What else can I say, next model: R1-LGBTQ ？

What else can I say, next model: R1-LGBTQ ?

Well, for one, queer people exist (whether in the west or the east), and it is in fact good for models to acknowledge that!

However, a model like that would definitely not be made by someone at Perplexity, as right-wing Americans absolutely fucking hate queer people

Who cares what perplexity decides to do with their own compute. They wanted to stop the CCP from reinforcing their shitty ideals on the world. They did it. It's not like they went into your wallet and stole money to do the train.

American propaganda is just as disgusting as Chinese propaganda, and it is just as weird to publish such a nationalist-themed model under the American banner as it is the Chinese one. Also the proper name is Communist Party of China (CPC), at least get that part right 😭

+5 social credit points

How do I un-follow a discussion

Try marking it as "done" in your inbox, I'm not sure.

动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

January 6th Capitol Attack Election Fraud Claims Stop the Steal Oath Keepers Proud Boys Three Percenters Militia Movement White Supremacy Confederate Flag Lost Cause Southern Heritage Jim Crow Segregation Mass Incarceration Prison-Industrial Complex War on Drugs Racial Profiling Police Brutality Qualified Immunity No-Knock Warrants Civil Asset Forfeiture Gerrymandering Voter Suppression Electoral College Lobbying Citizens United Corporate Influence Dark Money Tax Loopholes Wealth Inequality Income Disparity Healthcare Costs Medical Debt Student Loan Debt Climate Change Denial Anti-Science Conspiracy Theories QAnon Fake News Media Bias Gun Violence Mass Shootings NRA Second Amendment Debate Military Spending Forever Wars Interventionism Imperialism National Debt Government Shutdowns Political Polarization Culture Wars Christian Nationalism Dominionism Evangelical Right Anti-Abortion LGBTQ+ Rights Opposition Transphobia Homophobia Book Bans Critical Race Theory Panic Historical Revisionism Thanksgiving Myth Manifest Destiny Native American Genocide Trail of Tears Indian Removal Act Slavery Slave Trade Reparations White Privilege Systemic Racism Lost cause

yeah, interesting thing that you can look all these up freely on the western internet and not get into any trouble with the government for it.

Yeah i wonder what happens if you search up The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 on chinese internet?

Yeah i wonder what happens if you search up The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 on chinese internet?

(from a VPN into mainland China)

Not only does it not just go -50 social credits and blocks the search like everyone seems to think it does in America, the results have factual information in them, take for example the third link there (from a state-owned broadcaster!):

Since late April 1989, a serious turmoil triggered by student protests occurred in the Beijing area. On May 19th, the CPC Central Committee and the State Council held a meeting of leading Party, government, and military cadres in the capital, demanding that everyone urgently mobilize and adopt resolute and forceful measures to unequivocally stop the turmoil. On the 20th, the State Council announced a martial law order in some areas of Beijing. On June 4th, martial law troops were ordered to enter Tiananmen Square. A very small number of rioters incited some of the masses to intercept military vehicles, seize military supplies, and besiege and assault state organs and major departments. The martial law troops forcibly advanced and quelled the turmoil.

(after translation)

This is what happened. Like right on the dot. It might be spun differently than American outlets will, but those would call genocide righteous if the US supported it -- take a look at a western news org like Reuters refusing to say that the IDF murdered their own reporter

My point here is not that "China good" (it has become another imperialist pseudocapitalistic nation), it's that "America bad" and endless sinophobic mythologizing about how bad China is in comparison and using jingoistic rhetoric to promote your own company is a hypocritical and horrid view that ignores the atrocities of America's own creation

American propaganda is just as disgusting as Chinese propaganda, and it is just as weird to publish such a nationalist-themed model under the American banner as it is the Chinese one. Also the proper name is Communist Party of China (CPC), at least get that part right iFos not a place for geopolitics, this platform is for ML research.

This repo is being spammed with "Ethical issue" reports that don't explain the issue in any way that can be actioned on, bar a few.

The issue I recognize is lack of transparency in training. If perplexity wants to uncensore a model, they should disclose the dataset and process by which they do that, Because we know models can have explicit and implicit biases, even without alignment.

We can collaborate more effectively when this is done in the open.

What I don't like, is when a ML research platform, primarily made up by people contributing their time to contribute to open research (in most part), have to endure geopolitical disputes in their community. This only serves to strain already strained ML researchers and waste peoples time.

This is not how we should spend our time here.

If the issue is raised in a manner as to focus on the substantive issue of alignment and ethics in building these systems, I am all for that.

I don't mean any I'll will to anyone. I care about these ethical issues. Please can we at least treat this as what its meant to be. ML research platform.

Can y'all start a new thread so i can stop getting emails about this? HuggingFace currently has no good way to unfollow a discussion. Yes, I tried whatever you're about to suggest.

@inflatebot Told ya