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Civility Lab 4

I have another bridge for sale. Hardly a day goes by that Obma doen not tell a lie

The members of the Council just don't get it. We're tired of our tax money going to failing social programs. How about just cleainng up downtown, getting away from putting public housing in areas where you want tourists and start chasing out the bums. The jobs will come when people want to move their businesses into areas with lots of activity and some tax breaks.

Comments provided by the wrong person......

Your missing the point of "where" they can assemble. How about the Santa Cruz River? No curfew laws there.

p.s. - I didn't see "Buyout the SunTran bus driver union" listed anywhere on the RTA Mobility website, nor in the pre-election promotional material.

The poor need to take responsibility for their situation and the government needs to stop enabling them through reduced fees in public transportation, food stamps, public housing, healthcare, etc. They need to stop having children, get out of unhealthy relationships/habits, work as many jobs as necessary and get some education in hope of obtaining upward mobility. If they do not want to sacrifice and do what is necessary to better their own lives they need to go away. All the poor people are doing and criminals for that matter is making the middle class poor as the government taxes them in order to continue the enabling of America.

If you were aware of this, did you report them?

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. No sympathy here and I hope she serves as much time as possible.

It is the sad economy. Too bad it's so easy to fix the blame and oh so hard to fix the problem.

The best description of Perry is "afterbirther". Even the small percentage of the hardcore right wingers, (who will go to their graves believing President Obama was not born in the U.S.), have been relatively quiet. Why beat a dead horse and bring it up again?,... except to get some attention. What an idiot!

... and American Nazi Party and the American Communist Party are also starting to align themselves with this Occupy movement ... coming from Tea Party darling.

Call someone with your hands-free device and have them text what you dictate! You're welcome!

I guess hiring cheep illegal alien labor dosn't help your bottom line after all! Yay Obama! Keep alowing CBP to continue to go after companies that hire illegal aliens!

No agenda here, just a question. Why don't the protesters LEAVE when the park closes and come back the next day when the park reopens? It's not like the banks or corporations are open at 3am....

With this type of reporting is it any wonder the clock is ticking on how long the ADS is going to be in business. The ADS is not too big to fail.

Hmmm, the EXACT same thing posted by two separate people and not quoted. Very interesting.

So now we begin the years it will take to execute him. How frustrating, esp as he wants to die.

Mr. Obama, these stimulas created "jobs" are just fleeting blips. Until you allow the private sector to create wealth there can be no vital economy. All we're doing is creating more debt to be saddled by our children and probably their children to keep your zombie-like supporters and clueless serfs pacified.

President Barack Obama is promoting his health care law's benefits for small businesses as he tries to rally public support for the massive overhaul Maybe he coulda rallied support before his plan became law ? "businesses with 25 or fewer employees with average annual wages of less than $50,000 will receive tax credits this year if they provide health care coverage to their workers." Oh Goodie. Businesses that pay their employees dirt, will be able to get other people's money to give their employees health insurance....

Whitman's plan looks like a great way to re-elect Obama by splitting the vote with a third party. No thanks.

If you want some laws enforced, you'd better be willing to obey others.

I think it's about time for me to turn in too otherwise I'll start reading the new stuff and not want to stop. Good night everyone. Sleep tight.

1. Arm yourselves, buy a gun. 2. Learn how to SAFELY and RESPONSIBLY handle and use it. 3. If possible, teach the rest of the family if they are of age and ability to also use and handle said weapon SAFELY and RESPONSIBLY. THEN, if their home is ever invaded, and their lives threatened they will be READY-as a bullet issuing from a gun in the hands of an informed, responsible, knowledgeable person beats the response time of the cops ANY DAY!

I run through an area where a neighborhood association cleans up the medians in their area quite often. I see some people in that area even out cleaning really early in the morning while it is still dark.

You have a thing for wicked Joel? Yippee Ki Yea. She likes me!

T C . T . T M C ' . T K R M C . A R ?

Same ol' "news" on George again? I still prefer the beautiful and professional Erin Christiansen over any of the riff-raff on the tabloid channels.

I think it is time to push this movement forward. My neighbor has three cars, I have only one. I will take one from him. He has three daughters, I have none. I will take one from him. He is married, I am not....he can keep her but she has to cook at my house 1/2 the time....woo hoo, isn't life grand using this philosophy????

Bicyclists put themselves in danger by not following traffic laws.

Here is what Occupiers don't understand is that in the end, those in charge are going to give them nothing. Just ask the people in the Soviet Union who starved to death and who were locked up in the gulags. Why aren't we being specific here? Why are we not talking about GE who pays no federal taxes? Why are we not talking about the Googles and Exxon? Who are the 1 percent we are referring to? Does it really mean anything? These are all basic generalizations that have been made so far. Lenin did not give a darn about the Russians and all he did was use the peasant class to solidify his power and Stalin took it to a whole new level.

So according to Obama unions and community organizers are not special interest groups????

I had to get fingerprinted to do foster care. Why shouldn't people who want to be on the dole have to put their tips on the ink pad, too? Of course, every time our bureaucratic geniuses think they get smarter, the scammers get even smarter still.

From the story: An additional 7,000 jobs were added between August and September. That reduced the county's unadjusted employment rate by four-tenths of a point to 8.0 percent. The employment rate in Pima County is 8%?? Wow. No wonder there are so many grumpy people on these boards!

Yes, each of the person's and churches' moral compass mentioned in this article seems to be set toward getting around the legal process. If they were really concerned with the morality, then they would have made sure people like Morales weren't breaking the law in the first place or had attempted the process. 20 years is a long time for Morales to ignore becoming legal and then being shocked that he was finally caught.

Saw a great pic of a witch who had face planted smack into a tree trunk - broom sticking out behind, arms and legs wrapped around sticking out the front, body half embedded in the side of the tree. Sign at the base said, "Don't text and fly." It looked so real I called a priest to have her burned.

I' . G . I " - " , . K , T ! T : :// . . / / / - - /549/ (M ' .) G U A, , .

If there have been no changes in the fees/royalties since 1872, then review it and update it. Perhaps change it from $5 to say 5% of gross or net profits from the mining.

I was rear-ended in August by a 21 year old girl. She was doing 40+ while I was stopped. Myself and my passenger suspect that she was either texting or talking on her cell phone immediately before she hit us. Fortunately, I was driving a full-size truck that did not suffer much damage.

So if they were to chain themselves to the trees, who could you get to steal the keys?

Agreed that all parties should be represented, but not that an independant should not.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, Your tactics suck.

Ken Da i B. (Ken Da i ) o e: Jeff F. (Lo nge Singe ) o e: Q o e R h Limba gh follo ed p, deno ncing he Poli ico epo a an " ncon cionable, aciall e eo pical a ack" ha pla on he " glie acial e eo pe " and ep e en ed he "poli ic of mino i con e a i e pe onal de c ion." I am glad o kno ha he a ho of "Ba ack he Magic Neg o" i making a and again acial e eo ping. No j acial e eo ping, b unconscionable and ugly acial e eo ping. Q o e If an hing, I pec ha he onl ole Cain' ace pla ed a o infl ence he e ao dina amo n of ime - 10 da - ha en ed be een Poli ico' con ac ing he Cain campaign fo commen and i po ing of he o . 10 da ?? I can imagine fo me Rep. Wiene i eading hi and hinking of all he damage con ol he co ld ha e accompli hed if he had been gi en 10 da befo e he o b oke on him. B he o o ld ha e come o e en all . I i po ible Poli ico i c ea ing a o ha j i n' he e in o de o de ail he Cain campaign. O ma be he ha e c a ched he face of ome hing ha a gi en g ea effo o b . Time ill ell. Pa l Shanklin o e he ong, no R h. Oop . M bad.

Isn't it their job to do both, if that's what draws readers? If you don't like it, start your own paper, and stop using this one, no?

Climate change has occurred since the micro-second the planet had a climate. Warming and cooling cycles are well- documented in the geologic record.

My only question is has the county sent anyone to agronomy school to learn how to grow and maintain grass? The answer is most likely no. The stadium has to have the worst turf in the region and I wonder why everyone else can grow and maintain grass except the county? Anyone got an answer?

Ms. van Houten, Hate to be the one to break it to you, but the democrat controlled senate already voted on the "jobs bill" and it failed to pass. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/10/11/141249243/obamas-job-bill-faces-first-test-in- senate-vote

Cain's tax plan follows a tried and true Republican platform: bulls--- baffles brains. He thinks he can fool us by using obfuscating, confusing and deranged language, but his real plan is to raise taxes on the poor and almost nonexisting middle class, and lower them for the rich. He's just a garden-type, bait-and-switch, crackpot crook.

I'll do it for 100K a year, no bennies. Call me!

The Democrats on the board, she noted, took action, ultimately firing former City Manager Mike Hein. The Democrats on the board must think that firing and hiring clueless city managers is the extent of their oversight responsibilities. Perhaps when the feds come with the handcuffs, the clueless demoncraps will see the light.

Human Rights should trump bigotry. In these threads, however, bigotry usually win the space, only by a notch over racism, but human compassion is beaten to the ground every time.

Fun facts for the day. Like it or not Arizona is one of the few places on the planet rich in economically recoverable copper. The following table list the mines and companies in Arizona that produced copper and their production quantites in millions of pounds in 2010. Mine, Company, million of pound of copper Morenci, Freeport McMoran and Sumitomo, 514.0 Ray, Asarco, 231.6 Bagdad, Freeport McMoran, 203.0 Mission, Asarco, 183.9 Sierrita, Freeport McMoran, 147.0 Safford, Freeport McMoran, 143.0 Silver Bell, Asarco and Mitsui, 46.3 Mineral Park, Mercator, 32.2 Carlota, Quadra, 29.0 Pinto Valley, BHP, 13.2 Miami, Freeport McMoran, 18.0 Johnson Camp - Nord, 9.1 Tohono, Freeport McMoran, 0.0 Total, 1,573.3 Total Freeport McMoran, 1,025.0 Total Asarco, 461.8 Now this list shows the expected annual production in millions of pound of copper for the two major proposed mines. Resolution, Rio Tinto and BHP - Proposed = 1,000.0 Rosemont, Augusta Resources - Proposed = 221.0 As plainly shown, the proposed Rosemont mine will have production greater than the bottom seven mines combined. What is even more interesting is that the proposed Resolution mine near Superior will have production almost as large as all of the Freeport McMoran mines combined. It is frankly bizarre to think that the Resolution and Rosemont deposits will remain unexploited. There is simply a great deal of highly needed copper in the ground that will get mined eventually.

I wonder how much he "scrutinized" Obamacare before he voted for it? This is probably another way of saying to the mines that they need to give him more campaign contribution so they can pass his muster.

the post above referring to siezing the assets of the operators via RICO laws is spot on. Take everything to pay for back taxes plus interest, costs of prosecuting and penalties. Don't forget to boot out the crinimal illegal aliens. BaBaLaWaaa and Sheriff Doobie's stated sanctuary policy is pushing large portions of Tucson towards an irreperable state. Irreperable unless you consider conditions south of the border acceptable. Clearly the Washington pols will never make everify the law of the land-we are so deep into the doodoo...........

And people, just do not get it !

Richard El as, a Democrat, represents District 5 on the Pima County Board of Supervisors Ever been on Mill Avenue in Tempe? How about Stetson Dr. In Scottsdale? Maricopa County has lower property taxes, better roads, professional sports teams and a lot more tourists, too. The author's credentials kind of say it all, don't they? Anybody out there looking for a good job? When I was a kid, Arizona produced 20% of the World's copper. What happened to the citrus, cotton and cattle, too? Those "Four C's" employed a lot of Arizonans. We have nothing to sell to anyone, anymore.

I guess you don't like how any judges are appointed? The governor has a list to pick from that is balanced with both parties represented. Yes the Governor can pick whomever he or she pleases. If the Governor was a democrat who you complain so bitterly? Every Governor tends to pick the Judge that is associated with the party they represent, just as the President does. Looks to me that the liberal hypocracy is in full play here. By the way, did you read Section 6, article 36 of the AZ Constitution? that spells out the whole process? The bar association page only discusses the lawyer appointment selection process.

self-interest for some reason. Nobody with a job should be voting for democrats. I'll bet you are a joy to be around.

Last ear, about 600,000 people were stopped and frisked in New York. Though blacks and Hispanics account for just over half the cit 's population, the represent about 85 percent of those stopped. The Center for Constitutional Justice, a civil-rights group, sa s drugs or weapons are turned up in less than 2 percent of those stopped. For the innumerate, 2% of 600,000 is still 12,000, and over a ten ear period that's 120,000 felons taken off the street. The suspiciousl round figure of 600,000 is of course absurd, as would be the group that offered that figure. However, I would agree with Pitts on this one, if onl he left out the racial angle, and did not pick and choose under which circumstances the Constitution applies.

Meow indeed! Actually, based on his posts, I'd say John is more Republican than Democrat. You might really be thanking someone from the same party. As for myself, I don't usually think about these things since all the food I've ever met has pretty much been non-partisan. So, even if this doesn't qualify as your first thank you to the other party, don't despair. I remember about 20 years ago...no, no...more like 24 years ago...or was it 26...? Anyway, a Republican did something nice for and I thanked someone from the other party, so I know it can happen.

This is a bunch of bull. They did nothing to stop the takeover of that meeting a few months ago by a bunch of thugs and then these loser board members who allowed it have the gall to come out with these rules. They need to be kicked out of town, same as the mayor of this town with his stupid rules.

Does that work?

A strike in this economy is not smart. In addition to being really bad PR for the union, there are tons of people out there who would love to have those jobs. If this union strikes, the company should immediately hire permanent replacements for less money and ignore further communication from the former union. The only thing that these blood sucking unions understand is when people get fed up with their extortion and eliminate them. Even then, they don't really understand, but at least they can't hold their company hostage to their extortion any more. If you think I am wrong about extortion and threats, just watch the comments that will follow this one.

This copper goes to China. China and India are the ones that need copper for development. If you buy something back from China you can get your copper back after paying a premium. Maybe fifty years ago the copper was processed here in the US but not any more.

I have the same problem, I know they're safe, but I can't leave one on while I'm gone. I can't even leave it on overnight!

I learned this truism the hard way. I was a foolish idealist when young and absorbed all the left wing crap like a sponge. So after college & my military stint I took a job as a social worker working with the REALLY poor to "help them". I soon learned 95% were poor and would always be poor because of the "things they do". I saw one family assigned to my caseload get an insurance settlement of $300,500 (real money in '69). I ran into them 18 months later again living in poverty because of the stupid things they did. And because of progressive changes we've made it's no wonder we have a growing underclass. Correct me if I'm wrong but we no longer do vocational counseling in our schools (thanks N.E.A. & Dept. of Ed). So we have people taking out obscenly large student loans to get degrees in fields with poor employment prospects. Kids who grow up watching TV today have no role models with "good habits" of the successful. 99% of the shows mock "nerds" & "geeks" and star slackers. Our popular culture idolizes losers. Lastly, as others have already said, a culture cannot absorb the huge numbers of illegal immigrants requiring services that we do. One result of that besides economic resources being shifted to the immigrants is that we now have an ingrained notion that "we" don't do "those" jobs. We've made the perfect storm, and it sure as hell isn't because of GOP style wealth distribution. It still gets back to what the rich do to acquire and retain wealth and what the poor do to stay poor

hoping for a riot."? Your media would have plastered the proof all over every news outlet around. Your presumption of racism at tea parties does not make it so. I have never watched fox news...ever.

Started with DM Federal Credit Union 17 years ago and never dealt with a bank since. Now Vantage West, they have all the branches that are convenient for me, one near work, two east side and one central. No matter where I drive to, there's one easy enough to stop at and make a deposit. They were also nice enough to give my 15 year old his own checking and debit card. I have four accounts, my son has two, and they've never charged me for a thing.

GEE where else did we hear a politician say I didn't have sex with that girl....OH YEA Clinton. The reason we need to know about our politicians is that if they can lie to the one person in the world that they are supposed to be faithful to they will lie to the rest of us in a heartbeat.

The dignity of each and every individual is something upheld not just in our religious traditions, but in our larger society. sooooo....... there is "dignity" in breaking our laws? Me thinks there is something very wrong with this picture.

Question: Why do you have such problems finding racism in the teaparty rallies; but no problem finding anti-semitism in the OWS. Then I did what you suggested, googled "OWS+anti-semitic" and found this interesting article: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/10/anti-semites_with_signs.html When writing about the Occupy Wall Street protests, Washington Post conservative blogger Jennifer Rubin complains, "virtually nothing has been said about its anti-Semitic elements." And yes, virtually nothing has been said! Unless you count David Brooks. Or Fox News. Or The Wall Street Journal editorial page. Or Rush Limbaugh, the Weekly Standard, the Daily Caller, Commentary, Karl Rove, National Review Online, Newsmax, Reason, and too many blogs to name. Notice anything?

Studies have shown that driving while texting and using a cell phone impairs the driver to an degree as though he had a bac of over .08. this means the danger and damage to society and others is the same. as drinking and driving why should the penalties be any less. ?? they shouldnt. jail time, loss of license, probation. suspension. counseling penalties of thousands of dollars. and a device in the vehicle which blocks transmission in the future. all paid by the violator. the effects on our safety is the same, therefore the penalties should be also.

I disagree. I've been to France a half dozen times. I've taken an American Express tour,or backpacked, or rented a car to tour France. Prior to leaving for my trips, I studied French so that I could understand the basics and be able to communicate my wants like ordering a meal and staying in a B & B. I've always had good experiences and can't wait until my next trip. I'm shocked to hear this view from you David M. 99% of the time you're one of the few people who make sense in the postings. But not this time.

Here is a question: what, if anything, truly requires Rosemont to do anything that isn't regulated by EPA or code? I guess I am looking specifically at the "Wildlife" portion of this article, since most everything else is EPA. Sounds like a feel-good project that will be dropped as soon as operations start. However, nothing will actually guarantee that the mine will not significantly impact the area. One mistake is all it takes. The company would build a pipeline to bring Central Arizona Project water south to the Sahuarita area I am not a hydrologist, but how will providing water to Sahuarita recharge the aquifer that Rosemont will be pumping from? It has made an agreement with Sahuarita Heights well owners committing to well repair, deepening and replacement when necessary. I am not holding my breath for that one. How long will the well-owners have to fight for the repairs while they have dry wells?

I wouldn't legalize hard drugs, especially ones like heroin or cocaine, that are physically addicting. But, marijuana is not physically addicting. As I said, it should be okay for marijuana to be used in a person's home, as long as they don't go out and drive. I hate drinking and driving. In my opinion it is assault with a deadly weapon. I would through a person in jail for at least a year for a first offense. The same with driving while high. Those are dangerous things to do, but, with a drug that isn't physically addicting, if an adult wants to do it in the privacy of their own home, then it is not the government's concern to tell them they can't (especially when there is known medicinal uses). It should be treated as cigarettes and alcohol are, and taxed as such. The CATO Institute, a conservative think-tank says that if we legalized marijuana we could save $8.7 Billion a year in law enforcement and judicial costs if we legalized MJ and we could earn another $8.7 Billion a year in taxes. The right is all about letting people be free of government control and balancing the budget. We could help do both with one thing right here.

And it is "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS", not "migrants". Illegal is Illegal!!

sing'n the blues, we don't know why, but we just love to.. woooo wooooo

Woud you prefer Chinese Capitalism? Or perhaps Russian style Capitalism (i.e. mafia controlled)?

You'd better be careful young whippersnapper. Just because we're old doesn't mean we can't still bite. After we find our dentures.

All I can say about this mess is that the longer that it drags on the worse it gets. The NEW RN Board suing the City, GT suing two individuals on the NEW RN board for telling the truth. The FBI and AG is investigating this whole mess. The COT can't keep records, can't manage high profile projects, can't promote a business friendly atmosphere, has an outdated and worthless land use code. By the way Mr. Miranda, how is the rewrite coming? And the beat goes on. The ADS even has already endorsed two liberal democrats for positions on the council. I guess that the way this city and county are run is fine with them. There is enough blame to go around but it starts at the top and the actions of the bureaucrats are simply a reflection of their leadership. Need I say more?

John P Whoa!!!! You give the Flea Bagger crowd way too much credit. As I wrote yesterday, once the snow starts falling in places like Boston and NYC, I have no doubt they'll disperse and return to 'occupying" Mommy and Daddy's basement.

Sleep deprived should invest in a pair of custom made earplugs. I have a pair for working at a gun range, but they have come in quite handy when my husband snores or wants to watch tv.

Largely depends on what opinions a reader brings to the comparison. My take is both outfits make occasional good points, but both preach to the already converted.

If you listen to obama it’s only the republicans trying to stop this now we find out it’s the democrats as well but yet obama keeps blaming the republicans. Wish he would tell the whole truth sometime.

compared to Midway Molina's. It's been a number of years since I been there, but La Fuente was a great place to eat.

I watched the Council meeting on TV, the speakers were of all ages and political parties, they gave impassioned, articulate pleas: USA is in real trouble, we need radical solutions. Peak oil, global warming, geometric world population growth and the funny-money Wall Street casino games . . . we're in for a rough ride ahead. Ignore the signs of the times: karma is coming, be prepared!

Follow the money!

This is true. Okay ... You realize that you are making an argument that there be ZERO jobs in the U.S., other than those serving the non-working wealthy. Right?

AHCCCS is not a right under our Constitution. Social support programs like AHCCCS were developed to help our fellow citizens who need temporary help in their lives. Somebody is paying the bill. Health care is not free. These state programs are supported by the state taxpayers. When revenues are down, the programs need to be reduced accordingly. That's just the way it is.

"Le ' elec a p e iden o go e n, no o p o ec a pa " ----------------- Good idea. No , he p oblem i ...finding a candida e ha ill do ha .

Yes, the moral compass of mass killers is different than most, also. What's your point. Langer's point was will written and conclusions correct.

So you are telling me Buffet is not the 1%, Oprah, Letterman, Hollywood et al? It seems to me you are the one being manipulated, your are listening to the rich, tell you the rich are bad and you are believing them?

After that, we really need to focus on some more bungee jumping towers, and submarine docks. and don't forget the soapbox derby hills. Heck, we should also have a lego park and a 25-story escalator to nowhere, just like the Simpsons. Wheee!

Yea, like he should be the one to talk and give guidance on this subject! Just proves what a JOKE HE IS !!!!

We have to consider though, that the baby boomers, who were the middle class, prospered just before silicon valley happened, yet too late to adjust to the new high tech focus being the new median for wage earners. Of course the middle class went down some...the middle class got sideswiped by technological advances it was not prepared to adapt to. If this would have happened in the 50s, it would be a different world...but it is this world, and to make companies pay for the timing of innovation is not sustainable in our "global village".

All those years of advocating the violation of our immigration laws, playing the blame game, and not doing anything about advocating for getting legalized in our immigration courts or advocating obtaining VISAs. What a waste of time!

You're right, it probably doesn't happen at all. I didn't even download the table. I never considered it when I worked overtime, which I did a lot for most of my working life. But age and the realization you're missing out on life eventually catches up, or at least it did for me and I didn't do it anymore. So it goes back to the perception issue and I think a lot of that perception is based on fatigue, whether physical or mental, and I doubt anything will change it.

But that's different ...

There is no shortage of water. You folks deceive yourself if you believe that we are going to run out of water. We (the Tucson Basin) do not even utilize our full allocation of CAP water - check it out at http://www.cap-az.com/Operations/Allocations.aspx I'm tired of you folks who come from somewhere else and immediately think that there is no water here. Besides our CAP allocation, we have one of the largest aquifers in the southwest under our City. The argument to use toilet to tap is completely driven by the "anti-growth" crowd - those who we should be blaming for the lackluster economy

A ligitimate issue. Too bad there is very little in the way of rational discussion.

Mark V (IRO), nice try to scrub the story. The fact is over a 10 year period we lost market share - in good years and bad - we have a ton of great offerings to support the tourism industry but because of poor leadership no one outside of Tucson knows how great this place is. This is a failure of MTCVB senior leadership and failure lies at the hand of the MTCVB board of directors and the failure lies at the Pima County Board of Supervisors and the City of Tucson - they are the funders. Facts are the facts - time to purge all these messes that take tax dollars and don't deliver.