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2j02n2

How will they make the model 3 so mmuch cheaper than the model S? I know they re building a Gigafactory which will lower battery costs but how else will they reduce costs with the model 3?

-Car will be smaller overall (75%?) perhaps lighter as well (maybe not though because they won t be using aluminum). -At least 30% reduction in cost of battery packs maybe up to 40%. -Might trim some costs by making it not quite as luxurious. -Economies of scale. -Smaller profit margins. Just some random thoughts I had.

It seems like they need to reduce weight significantly (without switching to carbon fiber) to meet their goals. Less weight means less material cost and fewer battery cells to get the same range.

2j54un

PSA to anyone with a pending Tesla order I contacted Tesla to see if my parents order placed prior to The D announcement would have the Autopilot features. Here s the order info and Tesla s response: Confirmed order on 9 17. Order included parking sensors and tech package. Then The D event happened. So I emailed Tesla about Autopilot on the car. Tesla s response: Your vehicle has the hardware for the Autopilot options. However you will only have the lane departure and speed assist. If you would like all the features we can upgrade you to the new tech package. The nice thing is that since you already paid for the parking sensors it won t cost anything to move over to the upgraded tech package. Would you like me to proceed with transferring it over? So if you have a pending order prior to Elon showing us The D may wanna shoot Tesla an email to ensure you get Autopilot. No word yet on whether it changes the delivery date. Happy motoring!

Hi all A point of clarification here regarding the difference between safety features and convenience features. If you have a Model S with the Autopilot hardware (12 ultrasonic sensors forward radar forward looking camera and electromechanical brake boost) your car is capable of Autopilot (that is typically the case for all cars completed after September 20 2014). Autopilot safety features today and in the future are included in every new Model S. Safety features include systems that warn drivers of potential hazards and help avoid or lessen the impact of potential collisions. Autopilot convenience features are enabled for customers who have selected the Tech Package with Autopilot (upgrade from original Tech package). Convenience features include everyday driving maneuvers that reduce driver workload such as traffic aware cruise control and automatic parking. Please note that the different features will be enabled through over-the-air firmware upgrades in the coming months. If a customer has any additional questions their Delivery Specialist can assist them. Thanks Tesla Motors

Are you saying you want The D? (I have the S already and I do fucking want the D)

2j54un

PSA to anyone with a pending Tesla order I contacted Tesla to see if my parents order placed prior to The D announcement would have the Autopilot features. Here s the order info and Tesla s response: Confirmed order on 9 17. Order included parking sensors and tech package. Then The D event happened. So I emailed Tesla about Autopilot on the car. Tesla s response: Your vehicle has the hardware for the Autopilot options. However you will only have the lane departure and speed assist. If you would like all the features we can upgrade you to the new tech package. The nice thing is that since you already paid for the parking sensors it won t cost anything to move over to the upgraded tech package. Would you like me to proceed with transferring it over? So if you have a pending order prior to Elon showing us The D may wanna shoot Tesla an email to ensure you get Autopilot. No word yet on whether it changes the delivery date. Happy motoring!

Hi all A point of clarification here regarding the difference between safety features and convenience features. If you have a Model S with the Autopilot hardware (12 ultrasonic sensors forward radar forward looking camera and electromechanical brake boost) your car is capable of Autopilot (that is typically the case for all cars completed after September 20 2014). Autopilot safety features today and in the future are included in every new Model S. Safety features include systems that warn drivers of potential hazards and help avoid or lessen the impact of potential collisions. Autopilot convenience features are enabled for customers who have selected the Tech Package with Autopilot (upgrade from original Tech package). Convenience features include everyday driving maneuvers that reduce driver workload such as traffic aware cruise control and automatic parking. Please note that the different features will be enabled through over-the-air firmware upgrades in the coming months. If a customer has any additional questions their Delivery Specialist can assist them. Thanks Tesla Motors

I ve asked my DS OA and messaged another Tesla rep. We will figure this out eventually.

2j54un

PSA to anyone with a pending Tesla order I contacted Tesla to see if my parents order placed prior to The D announcement would have the Autopilot features. Here s the order info and Tesla s response: Confirmed order on 9 17. Order included parking sensors and tech package. Then The D event happened. So I emailed Tesla about Autopilot on the car. Tesla s response: Your vehicle has the hardware for the Autopilot options. However you will only have the lane departure and speed assist. If you would like all the features we can upgrade you to the new tech package. The nice thing is that since you already paid for the parking sensors it won t cost anything to move over to the upgraded tech package. Would you like me to proceed with transferring it over? So if you have a pending order prior to Elon showing us The D may wanna shoot Tesla an email to ensure you get Autopilot. No word yet on whether it changes the delivery date. Happy motoring!

Hi all A point of clarification here regarding the difference between safety features and convenience features. If you have a Model S with the Autopilot hardware (12 ultrasonic sensors forward radar forward looking camera and electromechanical brake boost) your car is capable of Autopilot (that is typically the case for all cars completed after September 20 2014). Autopilot safety features today and in the future are included in every new Model S. Safety features include systems that warn drivers of potential hazards and help avoid or lessen the impact of potential collisions. Autopilot convenience features are enabled for customers who have selected the Tech Package with Autopilot (upgrade from original Tech package). Convenience features include everyday driving maneuvers that reduce driver workload such as traffic aware cruise control and automatic parking. Please note that the different features will be enabled through over-the-air firmware upgrades in the coming months. If a customer has any additional questions their Delivery Specialist can assist them. Thanks Tesla Motors

That will be $16 000 additional - any other car company.

2kl6t2

What makes Teslas so safe? I hear all the time about how Teslas are the safest on the road. What s going on here? Is it something to do with the fact that it s an electric vehicle? Are they just really well engineered designed? Are they using different materials (I think the roadsters use carbon fiber?)? Is it a weight thing? And is it likely that that safety will translate to future Tesla models (X 3 etc.)? Thanks.

Elon Musk puts his kids in one. Plus his investors drive them. ) He s said before that the #1 priority when designing the Model S was safety. One story: they used FEA crash simulations to test the side pole test and engineered the car so it would pass. Some automakers will just strengthen that exact spot but not Tesla. They re-positioned the pole to the weakest point and made it pass *there* and so on until it passed wherever the pole was positioned. Crashing cars in the computer is so cheap that this type of design is now feasible.

It s a combination of everything you ve mentioned. The fact that it s an EV means that it has size and space advantages over ICE cars. The motor needed to propel the Model S is the size of a watermelon. Compare that to the size of the engine for an ICE car. So right off the bat there s a lot less space required. On top of that it s really well designed. By making the heavy battery pack very flat and locating it at the bottom of the car it adds a lot of stability to prevent rollovers. By virtue of being an EV the engineers had a lot more room and space to design a very safe car.

2kl6t2

What makes Teslas so safe? I hear all the time about how Teslas are the safest on the road. What s going on here? Is it something to do with the fact that it s an electric vehicle? Are they just really well engineered designed? Are they using different materials (I think the roadsters use carbon fiber?)? Is it a weight thing? And is it likely that that safety will translate to future Tesla models (X 3 etc.)? Thanks.

Elon Musk puts his kids in one. Plus his investors drive them. ) He s said before that the #1 priority when designing the Model S was safety. One story: they used FEA crash simulations to test the side pole test and engineered the car so it would pass. Some automakers will just strengthen that exact spot but not Tesla. They re-positioned the pole to the weakest point and made it pass *there* and so on until it passed wherever the pole was positioned. Crashing cars in the computer is so cheap that this type of design is now feasible.

You know how if any ICE manufacturer wants to put any protections into a car (say to reinforce a gas tank) or something of the sort. The issue is that they need to make room for things whereas everything above the frame in a Model S is used as opportunity space as it is often called for important things like reenforcing rigidity crumple zones while also leaving plenty of room for owner storage. sorryfortherunon

2mufs6

Warning for owners traveling in California - As of 8pm Wednesday the Harris Ranch Supercharger is Offline Just a FYI so you can plan accordingly. I m unsure about the exact details but here s what I gathered from speaking to a few people. Basically the power company turned over their power (I have no idea what that means and they do every so often every year?) and then the dirty power blew out something. A tech came out a few days ago to fix it. It worked for a day or something. Now the station is down again all 6 chargers (I checked). Currently being towed to the next charger curtesy of Tesla.

A software upgrade suggestion for Tesla: If a supercharger is down it would be great if they could send a message to those who are traveling in the area within a given radius. Something that pops up on your screen to indicate the SC is down.

thanks for the heads up. that sucks though. glad Tesla came to tow you. how long did you wait? and isn t it some 100 miles to the next supercharger?

2nom4f

So yesterday my dad told the Thanksgiving table that I m thinking of buying a Tesla... ...and the first thing my uncle says completely seriously - oh have they fixed the problem where they catch fire yet? UGH. Cue two-hour family debate on cars. Now half my family is convinced I will incinerate in a Tesla. You ve got to be kidding me.

Yes they solved the fire problem. Now whenever there s a Tesla nearby all fires go out. Fire departments only have Teslas now just drive it past a fire to put it out.

[Better than spending $900 000 on this--- NSFW language.](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=sev-vPCkVII)

2nom4f

So yesterday my dad told the Thanksgiving table that I m thinking of buying a Tesla... ...and the first thing my uncle says completely seriously - oh have they fixed the problem where they catch fire yet? UGH. Cue two-hour family debate on cars. Now half my family is convinced I will incinerate in a Tesla. You ve got to be kidding me.

Yes they solved the fire problem. Now whenever there s a Tesla nearby all fires go out. Fire departments only have Teslas now just drive it past a fire to put it out.

Reminds me of a Roman teenager saying But DAAAAD they have this really cool pottery studio and I want to be a sculptor... Not a soldier Or 1950s I don t want to be a lawyer I wanna be a rocker! These things happen over and over again. I suspect the role of the older generation is to reiterate truisms so that that which is still relevant will be apparent and that which isn t - will be rebeled against.

2rb2y6

Official r TeslaMotors Questions for Elon Musk s AMA This AMA almost flew under our radar with the holidays but thanks to u jpidwaffle we caught it just in time. The mod team thought it would be nice to have an official post on the AMA with questions from r TeslaMotors. We can then link the post on the sub and have our users support it to increase the odds of Elon answering our questions. The AMA is tomorrow **Monday the 5th at 9pm EST**. The **3 most upvoted questions** on this thread will be included in the official r TeslaMotors post with a mention of the OP. Please only **one question per post** so that we can follow the upvotes. Thanks. If you think Elon already answered a question in this thread before no need to downvote the question. Simply reply with the answer and we will choose the next most upvoted question. Of course please keep the question Tesla related. I m sure r Spacex will do a similar thing. You will be able to ask your space questions there. Cheers Fred _____ edit: to comply with Reddit s rules. edit2: One question per post. _______________ PS: I ll also do the same thing in r SolarCity if anyone cares. Thanks.

Franz von Holzhausen Tesla s Chief Designer hinted at a possible unveiling of the Model 3 Tesla s future mid-luxury vehicle at the 2015 Detroit Auto show but Tesla doesn t seem to have a slot for a press conference at the Auto Show. **Can you tell us when Tesla will unveiled the Model 3 prototype and if the reservations will start at the unveiling?**

Have you also considered a Hot Weather Package that includes A C seats better overall A C etc? Would it be possible to include both a Hot and Cold weather packs to a single car? What do you think about AWS? Would you ever include it as an option for any Tesla?

2rb2y6

Official r TeslaMotors Questions for Elon Musk s AMA This AMA almost flew under our radar with the holidays but thanks to u jpidwaffle we caught it just in time. The mod team thought it would be nice to have an official post on the AMA with questions from r TeslaMotors. We can then link the post on the sub and have our users support it to increase the odds of Elon answering our questions. The AMA is tomorrow **Monday the 5th at 9pm EST**. The **3 most upvoted questions** on this thread will be included in the official r TeslaMotors post with a mention of the OP. Please only **one question per post** so that we can follow the upvotes. Thanks. If you think Elon already answered a question in this thread before no need to downvote the question. Simply reply with the answer and we will choose the next most upvoted question. Of course please keep the question Tesla related. I m sure r Spacex will do a similar thing. You will be able to ask your space questions there. Cheers Fred _____ edit: to comply with Reddit s rules. edit2: One question per post. _______________ PS: I ll also do the same thing in r SolarCity if anyone cares. Thanks.

Franz von Holzhausen Tesla s Chief Designer hinted at a possible unveiling of the Model 3 Tesla s future mid-luxury vehicle at the 2015 Detroit Auto show but Tesla doesn t seem to have a slot for a press conference at the Auto Show. **Can you tell us when Tesla will unveiled the Model 3 prototype and if the reservations will start at the unveiling?**

At what point does Tesla start to fight sales laws at a federal level? I have heard on multiple quarterly calls that sales are not an issue at this point however it is bad publicity when an article is released stating Tesla cannot sell (list state here). Owner S85 Investor Fan. Keep up the great work!

2rb2y6

Official r TeslaMotors Questions for Elon Musk s AMA This AMA almost flew under our radar with the holidays but thanks to u jpidwaffle we caught it just in time. The mod team thought it would be nice to have an official post on the AMA with questions from r TeslaMotors. We can then link the post on the sub and have our users support it to increase the odds of Elon answering our questions. The AMA is tomorrow **Monday the 5th at 9pm EST**. The **3 most upvoted questions** on this thread will be included in the official r TeslaMotors post with a mention of the OP. Please only **one question per post** so that we can follow the upvotes. Thanks. If you think Elon already answered a question in this thread before no need to downvote the question. Simply reply with the answer and we will choose the next most upvoted question. Of course please keep the question Tesla related. I m sure r Spacex will do a similar thing. You will be able to ask your space questions there. Cheers Fred _____ edit: to comply with Reddit s rules. edit2: One question per post. _______________ PS: I ll also do the same thing in r SolarCity if anyone cares. Thanks.

Franz von Holzhausen Tesla s Chief Designer hinted at a possible unveiling of the Model 3 Tesla s future mid-luxury vehicle at the 2015 Detroit Auto show but Tesla doesn t seem to have a slot for a press conference at the Auto Show. **Can you tell us when Tesla will unveiled the Model 3 prototype and if the reservations will start at the unveiling?**

Most people can t spend more than $15k on a car due to their poor income yet they tend to represent most of the aggregate time miles spent on the roads (not including 18 wheelers and other commercial traffic). When will there be a Telsa for these people? Model S covers the $80k and up range Model 3 covers the $30k to $80k range but theres nothing for people who are below that.

2rgzgo

Official SpaceX TeslaMotors SolarCity subreddit posts on Elon s AMA deleted . Unfortunately our questions never saw the light of day since they were deleted by the moderators over at r IAma. Nor did SolarCity s despite being carefully crafted by numerous people where only the top three questions were chosen for each subreddit s post. SpaceX s post apparently survived only because Elon answered it before the mods saw it so it apparently was reinstated left alone. I hesitate to use the word censorship but this I think is a ~~minor~~ case of that. ***EDIT 1***: Evidence of SpaceX s would-be deletion: https: imgur.com 7vPq3cK ***EDIT 2***: Relevant links: [Elon s AMA](http: www.reddit.com r IAmA comments 2rgsan i_am_elon_musk_ceocto_of_a_rocket_company_ama ) [Original sub-thread indicating the deletion](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2rf1ko elon_musk_on_twitter_ask_me_anything_at_9pm cnfqaib) [Official TeslaMotors question thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2rb2y6 official_rteslamotors_questions_for_elon_musks_ama ) (and the [post that was never to be](https: www.reddit.com r IAmA comments 2rgsan i_am_elon_musk_ceocto_of_a_rocket_company_ama cnfppsj)) [Official SolarCity question thread](https: www.reddit.com r SolarCity comments 2rb4kp official_rsolarcity_questions_for_elon_musks_ama ) [Official SpaceX question thread](http: www.reddit.com r spacex comments 2rbapx rspacex_official_question_thread_for_elon_musks )

I really like Reddit but when it fails it fails **spectacularly**.

Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch the issue is the spam rules. Try reporting it but its probably too late. We up voted the comment too fast.

2rgzgo

Official SpaceX TeslaMotors SolarCity subreddit posts on Elon s AMA deleted . Unfortunately our questions never saw the light of day since they were deleted by the moderators over at r IAma. Nor did SolarCity s despite being carefully crafted by numerous people where only the top three questions were chosen for each subreddit s post. SpaceX s post apparently survived only because Elon answered it before the mods saw it so it apparently was reinstated left alone. I hesitate to use the word censorship but this I think is a ~~minor~~ case of that. ***EDIT 1***: Evidence of SpaceX s would-be deletion: https: imgur.com 7vPq3cK ***EDIT 2***: Relevant links: [Elon s AMA](http: www.reddit.com r IAmA comments 2rgsan i_am_elon_musk_ceocto_of_a_rocket_company_ama ) [Original sub-thread indicating the deletion](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2rf1ko elon_musk_on_twitter_ask_me_anything_at_9pm cnfqaib) [Official TeslaMotors question thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2rb2y6 official_rteslamotors_questions_for_elon_musks_ama ) (and the [post that was never to be](https: www.reddit.com r IAmA comments 2rgsan i_am_elon_musk_ceocto_of_a_rocket_company_ama cnfppsj)) [Official SolarCity question thread](https: www.reddit.com r SolarCity comments 2rb4kp official_rsolarcity_questions_for_elon_musks_ama ) [Official SpaceX question thread](http: www.reddit.com r spacex comments 2rbapx rspacex_official_question_thread_for_elon_musks )

I really like Reddit but when it fails it fails **spectacularly**.

Aaand he s done.

2rgzgo

Official SpaceX TeslaMotors SolarCity subreddit posts on Elon s AMA deleted . Unfortunately our questions never saw the light of day since they were deleted by the moderators over at r IAma. Nor did SolarCity s despite being carefully crafted by numerous people where only the top three questions were chosen for each subreddit s post. SpaceX s post apparently survived only because Elon answered it before the mods saw it so it apparently was reinstated left alone. I hesitate to use the word censorship but this I think is a ~~minor~~ case of that. ***EDIT 1***: Evidence of SpaceX s would-be deletion: https: imgur.com 7vPq3cK ***EDIT 2***: Relevant links: [Elon s AMA](http: www.reddit.com r IAmA comments 2rgsan i_am_elon_musk_ceocto_of_a_rocket_company_ama ) [Original sub-thread indicating the deletion](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2rf1ko elon_musk_on_twitter_ask_me_anything_at_9pm cnfqaib) [Official TeslaMotors question thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2rb2y6 official_rteslamotors_questions_for_elon_musks_ama ) (and the [post that was never to be](https: www.reddit.com r IAmA comments 2rgsan i_am_elon_musk_ceocto_of_a_rocket_company_ama cnfppsj)) [Official SolarCity question thread](https: www.reddit.com r SolarCity comments 2rb4kp official_rsolarcity_questions_for_elon_musks_ama ) [Official SpaceX question thread](http: www.reddit.com r spacex comments 2rbapx rspacex_official_question_thread_for_elon_musks )

I really like Reddit but when it fails it fails **spectacularly**.

I think the reason they did it is because they consider it like vote gouging. Nothing to do with the actual topic or question. Many people behind 1 set of question and all agree to upvote it. Not saying it isnt stupid but I think thats against their policy

2rr96e

v6.1 is out! Battery % to from destination back up camera lines navigation overview map shuffle repeat smart pre-heating auto high-beam collision warning park assist and more... Here is the thread: http: www.teslamotorsclub.com showthread.php 40577-Firmware-6-1 I do have 6.1 on my car now so hit me up with any questions. Cheers! Now we are all looking forward to 6.2 :-)

BMW wanted me to pay $500 to add auto high beams... and Tesla adds it for free. Fuck yeah.

Looks like fun

2rr96e

v6.1 is out! Battery % to from destination back up camera lines navigation overview map shuffle repeat smart pre-heating auto high-beam collision warning park assist and more... Here is the thread: http: www.teslamotorsclub.com showthread.php 40577-Firmware-6-1 I do have 6.1 on my car now so hit me up with any questions. Cheers! Now we are all looking forward to 6.2 :-)

BMW wanted me to pay $500 to add auto high beams... and Tesla adds it for free. Fuck yeah.

And now I wait...

2s2wi4

Is it rude to take a test drive if I have absolutely no intention (or ability) to buy a Model S? Last night I filled out the test drive request form and this morning Tesla calls me. I now have an appointment to test drive a Tesla on Friday. I would love to drive a Tesla but between my finances and living in an apartment this dream isn t coming true soon. Is it rude if I actually take a test drive? If so I will cancel my appointment.

Honestly you don t even have to explain your situation. They are happy to give test drives. This is a win for Tesla even if you don t plan on buying a car now. You are most likely going to talk about it and may influence others to test drive and potentially buy a car. Besides things change and you will likely become a customer some time in the future.

Not at all and they ll gladly take you out!

2s2wi4

Is it rude to take a test drive if I have absolutely no intention (or ability) to buy a Model S? Last night I filled out the test drive request form and this morning Tesla calls me. I now have an appointment to test drive a Tesla on Friday. I would love to drive a Tesla but between my finances and living in an apartment this dream isn t coming true soon. Is it rude if I actually take a test drive? If so I will cancel my appointment.

Honestly you don t even have to explain your situation. They are happy to give test drives. This is a win for Tesla even if you don t plan on buying a car now. You are most likely going to talk about it and may influence others to test drive and potentially buy a car. Besides things change and you will likely become a customer some time in the future.

Not at all. They aren t paid on commission and if no one else is booked they stand around bored. They are happy to give test drives to anyone. Remember they don t advertise in the traditional sense - so test drives are great for informing people and getting the word out. Don t worry about it just enjoy the car and have fun!

2s2wi4

Is it rude to take a test drive if I have absolutely no intention (or ability) to buy a Model S? Last night I filled out the test drive request form and this morning Tesla calls me. I now have an appointment to test drive a Tesla on Friday. I would love to drive a Tesla but between my finances and living in an apartment this dream isn t coming true soon. Is it rude if I actually take a test drive? If so I will cancel my appointment.

Honestly you don t even have to explain your situation. They are happy to give test drives. This is a win for Tesla even if you don t plan on buying a car now. You are most likely going to talk about it and may influence others to test drive and potentially buy a car. Besides things change and you will likely become a customer some time in the future.

They re happy to do it. I took a test drive in 2013 and was totally up front about the fact that I think they re really cool and I d love to have one but I can t afford it. They didn t care. Of course circumstances change. I m now slated for delivery in March. I think they realize some of the I can t won t buy one crowd will later change their circumstances. And everyone else is still building valuable positive reputation for the company.

2sphu2

I just drunk bought a P85D....we ll see what tomorrow brings. I m excited!!!!!!!!!!

Is it me or is this sub basically a series of not-so humble brags?

Don t forget to update your flair!

2sphu2

I just drunk bought a P85D....we ll see what tomorrow brings. I m excited!!!!!!!!!!

Is it me or is this sub basically a series of not-so humble brags?

It will bring you one day closer to your car...

2sphu2

I just drunk bought a P85D....we ll see what tomorrow brings. I m excited!!!!!!!!!!

Is it me or is this sub basically a series of not-so humble brags?

What options did you drunk buy with it?

2t4kzt

Tesla mentioned in State of the Union speech Tesla was just mentioned by Obama in the State of the Union speech. Obama used it as an example of new jobs that did not exist 15 years ago. (Other two examples were Google and Ebay). Ignoring all political motives here I think this is just nice for Tesla and a demonstration of how far they have come. Edit: Thanks to u ridgelawrence for finding the video. The Tesla mention has shifted around multiple times in the video so please just follow the comment chain below to locate it.

It s funny when you think about Mitt Romney calling Tesla a loser just two years ago. Ironic even.

Political football going in the right direction...

2t4kzt

Tesla mentioned in State of the Union speech Tesla was just mentioned by Obama in the State of the Union speech. Obama used it as an example of new jobs that did not exist 15 years ago. (Other two examples were Google and Ebay). Ignoring all political motives here I think this is just nice for Tesla and a demonstration of how far they have come. Edit: Thanks to u ridgelawrence for finding the video. The Tesla mention has shifted around multiple times in the video so please just follow the comment chain below to locate it.

It s funny when you think about Mitt Romney calling Tesla a loser just two years ago. Ironic even.

Anyone have a video of it?

2t4kzt

Tesla mentioned in State of the Union speech Tesla was just mentioned by Obama in the State of the Union speech. Obama used it as an example of new jobs that did not exist 15 years ago. (Other two examples were Google and Ebay). Ignoring all political motives here I think this is just nice for Tesla and a demonstration of how far they have come. Edit: Thanks to u ridgelawrence for finding the video. The Tesla mention has shifted around multiple times in the video so please just follow the comment chain below to locate it.

It s funny when you think about Mitt Romney calling Tesla a loser just two years ago. Ironic even.

http: youtu.be Z8LqG_Ld0Dw?t=25m25s At ~~**28:18**~~ **25:25** (url links directly to it) Edit: Times in which the video was edited after it was published Edit2: Times in video changed again... hah

2t8kwu

Honest talk time what s the worst thing about the Model S? I can just about afford one of the cheapest models if I get it on a 6 year finance plan and I am willing to spend money on a decent car because I drive around 140 miles every day... But I want to hear it all the horror stories the terrible things about what seems like a mostly amazing and revolutionary car.

The price :(

Cup holders too close together.

2t8kwu

Honest talk time what s the worst thing about the Model S? I can just about afford one of the cheapest models if I get it on a 6 year finance plan and I am willing to spend money on a decent car because I drive around 140 miles every day... But I want to hear it all the horror stories the terrible things about what seems like a mostly amazing and revolutionary car.

The price :(

The interior is not well appointed. There s a $600 charge for annual service which is beyond excessive. That s all I ve got to gripe about. EDIT: ther s also considerable loss of charge while the car is parked in cold weather.

2t8kwu

Honest talk time what s the worst thing about the Model S? I can just about afford one of the cheapest models if I get it on a 6 year finance plan and I am willing to spend money on a decent car because I drive around 140 miles every day... But I want to hear it all the horror stories the terrible things about what seems like a mostly amazing and revolutionary car.

The communication or lack there of in the purchasing process. Specifically the constant tweaks and introduction of new features and options aren t consistently communicated to the buyer. So you might end up getting a car that just misses getting something you find highly desirable. Autopilot sensors and heated steering wheels come to mind. I don t have a problem with any of the other mentioned draw backs like the seats. Most of the problems are very nit picky sure I can see how some people find the seats uncomfortable but that is pretty much true for every seat. I found that there were a lot more positive surprises than negative ones. A full tank every morning is one that I didn t fully appreciate until I realized I no longer think about range at all unless I m going on a long trip. Daily I used to have to remember how much gas I had and factor in a trip to the gas station. I then started thinking I have 240 miles of range which is plenty for tomorrow. Now I don t even think about it. The car is always ready to get me where I need to go on a daily basis.

Seats are very uncomfortable 2014 year model.

2v9k6b

A Tesla Trucking Company?? (crazy speculation here) I think Tesla is on track to make real change in the personal transportation market. When the Gigafactory comes online and they start pushing out the model 3 things should be going well and they might become profitable. So what comes next? Besides making other personal cars I imagine they might be interested in electrifying commercial transport. If the gigafactory is making big cheap battery packs then could they potentially make electric 18 wheelers? It would require massive batteries and a really fantastic rapid battery swap infrastructure but on say a fifteen year time line it might seem reasonable? Anyone with more knowledge about long-distance trucking or electric vehicles have input as to why this would not be feasible? If Elon wants combustion engines to be a quaint thing of the past this needs to addressed eventually.

Garbage trucks is where electrification makes almost 100% sense today. Their stop and go driving is perfect for electric since it s slow and regen can recapture much of the energy. Not to mention a loud diesel truck at 5:30 AM.

I think this goes hand in hand with autonomous driving tech. Imagine a world where you send your cargo on its way and it shows up a day later anywhere you want? Things that would need to happen: 1) Fully autonomous Superchargers (Elon has hinted at this) 2) Advanced cooling systems u OompaOrangeFace correctly points out that the HP requirements would kick off a lot of extra heat the current tech isn t built for. 3) Economics. Commercial Transport is notorious for squeezing every last mile out of their truck fleets. Very unlikely they would adopt a new fleet of expensive new trucks.

2v9k6b

A Tesla Trucking Company?? (crazy speculation here) I think Tesla is on track to make real change in the personal transportation market. When the Gigafactory comes online and they start pushing out the model 3 things should be going well and they might become profitable. So what comes next? Besides making other personal cars I imagine they might be interested in electrifying commercial transport. If the gigafactory is making big cheap battery packs then could they potentially make electric 18 wheelers? It would require massive batteries and a really fantastic rapid battery swap infrastructure but on say a fifteen year time line it might seem reasonable? Anyone with more knowledge about long-distance trucking or electric vehicles have input as to why this would not be feasible? If Elon wants combustion engines to be a quaint thing of the past this needs to addressed eventually.

Garbage trucks is where electrification makes almost 100% sense today. Their stop and go driving is perfect for electric since it s slow and regen can recapture much of the energy. Not to mention a loud diesel truck at 5:30 AM.

A few things that would will be cool with autonomous electric trucks: Can drive day and night non-stop except for charging. Faster delivery. Truck superchargers won t have to be located close to populated areas can be out in the middle of nowhere meaning cheaper. And ofcourse all the other things that comes with it like cheaper in the long term due to no driver less maintenance and electricity instead of fuel. Safer also due to no driver who drives for 20 hours straight.

2v9k6b

A Tesla Trucking Company?? (crazy speculation here) I think Tesla is on track to make real change in the personal transportation market. When the Gigafactory comes online and they start pushing out the model 3 things should be going well and they might become profitable. So what comes next? Besides making other personal cars I imagine they might be interested in electrifying commercial transport. If the gigafactory is making big cheap battery packs then could they potentially make electric 18 wheelers? It would require massive batteries and a really fantastic rapid battery swap infrastructure but on say a fifteen year time line it might seem reasonable? Anyone with more knowledge about long-distance trucking or electric vehicles have input as to why this would not be feasible? If Elon wants combustion engines to be a quaint thing of the past this needs to addressed eventually.

Garbage trucks is where electrification makes almost 100% sense today. Their stop and go driving is perfect for electric since it s slow and regen can recapture much of the energy. Not to mention a loud diesel truck at 5:30 AM.

The weight ratios I think wouldn t make it feasible right now until battery tech improves. Happy to be proven wrong though.

2vrgig

GM Confirms Chevy Bolt Production...What s This Mean For The Model III? As someone eagerly awaiting the Tesla Model III GM confirming it WILL build the Bolt is pretty big news. As I understand it 200 miles of range and a $30 000 price tag AFTER tax credits. Even if you factor that out a $37 500 price tag is still in the same ball park as the Model III ($35 000 WITHOUT tax credits). Like many of you I plan to buy an EV for my next new car and I had assumed it would be a Tesla. Now though? It s going to come down to the details for me. I honestly hadn t expected GM to launch a serious EV competitor this quickly (even though I was front row at the Detroit Auto Show when the Bolt was revealed) and given that Tesla has made a habit out of repeated delays with the Model X my primary concern is that the Model III won t **actually** be available until late 2017 or early 2018 and Musk s comments that it won t be very adventurous is kind of disappointing. What I loved about the Model S is that the P85 version came out swinging with over 400 horsepower showing electric cars didn t have to be boring. I very much doubt the Model III will be boring per se but I think Tesla s experience with the Model X may have tempered some of Musk s boldness. As he is learning building a car is HARD. Obviously this is a Tesla sub and I m not expecting OMG WE LOVE GM here. But I m one of those give credit where credit is due sort of guys and as a diehard Tesla fan...the Bolt certainly has my attention. I don t think even Elon expected a serious 200-mile EV from a major automaker this early in the game and I can t help but feel like this might put a pinch on Model III sales. Honestly I will still probably buy a Model III because as I said it will come down to the details. But at the very least I m thrilled to be able to have viable EV options already from two automakers that couldn t be more different. How the world has changed in five brief years.

Kudos to GM. I agree about giving the credit where credit is due. Although I think we should mention that GM doesn t expect being able to produce more than 25 000 to 30 000 units per year. Even though in their announcement they said it will be available in all 50 states I predict it will be difficult to get one if you are not in a zero emission state.

First of all kudos to GM for being one of the few car companies that try to make compelling EVs. The Volt is a great car and I m sure they ll do their best with the Bolt. That being said I think the model 3 will have at least 2 serious advantages over the Bolt. 1. Fast DC charging. Tesla is the only company that has made travel between cities fast and practical for its EVs. 2. Performance. The Bolt might compete well against the Nissan Leaf but not against BMW 3-series. I m quite confident the model 3 will be better in that regard but still a bit concerned that Tesla might go for their new 188hp motor that will be inadequate IMO. If I spend $35k on a small sedan I d want it to be at least faster than a V6 camry or accord.

2vwioc

What made you interested in Tesla - Edit - Im going to extend this to include what motivated you to buy your Tesla also. I ll go first. I originally heard about it on Tv when the roadster first came out and a bunch of celebrities were getting them including Paris Hilton. lol I brushed it off thinking oh another trend how cute and who wants an electric sports car anyways. Enter last year classmates of mine did a presentation on Tesla and the Model S. My professor was so interested he wanted to buy one. I do more research start hearing about Elon Musk and the company. I get more interested. I did a test drive a couple of days ago and now can t wait to reserve my model 3 when they come out.

SpaceX --&gt Elon --&gt Tesla

I was living in California and went searching online for a car that would allow me to not buy gas again. At the time has was flirting with $4 a gallon. Since I couldn t afford a Roadster or a Model S I moved to Texas where the gas is cheaper. Awaiting the Model 3.

2w1y9t

Here we go again. Top Gear just scripted an EV charging fail for entertainment. [Previous roadster incident](http: www.teslamotors.com blog tesla-vs-top-gear) On the latest Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson was testing a hybrid (BMW i8) Top Gear S22E04 (2 15 15) [VIDEO CLIP (ignore the compression artifacts)](https: vid.me XgnP) Clarkson is shown purposely fumbling trying to charge the i8. Even though the charging point doesn t confirm the charging process was successful Clarkson declares It must be charging it s plugged in. It then cuts to him with a cup of coffee where he says &gt While we wait for the batteries to charge let me show you this incredible app that you can get with your i8 [Here s a screengrab of the app right when he says that](http: i.imgur.com 0T2aFa8.jpg). There s a flashing red icon on the bottom left along with large red CHARGING ERROR text in the center. None of this is mentioned. Clarkson then says: &gt After an hour I went back to the car and found that the charging point hadn t worked. Clarkson and the producers knew the car wasn t charging both at the charger and later from the app but they let the charge fail for entertainment purposes. The show is semi-scripted and this goes along with Jeremy s schtick . **To be fair they do say positive things about the i8 and even voted it the best car of 2014.** I m a fan of the show but it just seems like such a misleading thing to do especially with how much influence they have. They use the we re an entertainment show excuse when they get in trouble but they do legitimate car reviews and people take their advice seriously.

The show isn t semi-scripted. It s scripted in every smallest detail theatre level scripted.

They don t like electric cars. They re HUGE car buffs and have been making shows about cars their whole lives. They love the sound of the engine so much they can t imagine a car without it. They don t care much for emissions or the impact of the cars on the environment. I would much rather drive a car not powered by small explosions personally...

2w1y9t

Here we go again. Top Gear just scripted an EV charging fail for entertainment. [Previous roadster incident](http: www.teslamotors.com blog tesla-vs-top-gear) On the latest Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson was testing a hybrid (BMW i8) Top Gear S22E04 (2 15 15) [VIDEO CLIP (ignore the compression artifacts)](https: vid.me XgnP) Clarkson is shown purposely fumbling trying to charge the i8. Even though the charging point doesn t confirm the charging process was successful Clarkson declares It must be charging it s plugged in. It then cuts to him with a cup of coffee where he says &gt While we wait for the batteries to charge let me show you this incredible app that you can get with your i8 [Here s a screengrab of the app right when he says that](http: i.imgur.com 0T2aFa8.jpg). There s a flashing red icon on the bottom left along with large red CHARGING ERROR text in the center. None of this is mentioned. Clarkson then says: &gt After an hour I went back to the car and found that the charging point hadn t worked. Clarkson and the producers knew the car wasn t charging both at the charger and later from the app but they let the charge fail for entertainment purposes. The show is semi-scripted and this goes along with Jeremy s schtick . **To be fair they do say positive things about the i8 and even voted it the best car of 2014.** I m a fan of the show but it just seems like such a misleading thing to do especially with how much influence they have. They use the we re an entertainment show excuse when they get in trouble but they do legitimate car reviews and people take their advice seriously.

The show isn t semi-scripted. It s scripted in every smallest detail theatre level scripted.

[Here s a video of someone using a Ecotricity charger](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=jTfjuhZCgV0&amp t=83) [Here s the screen Jeremy left it at](http: i.imgur.com z34LPc4.jpg) when he declared it must be charging it s plugged in . [Their site](https: www.ecotricity.co.uk for-the-road charging-your-vehicle ac-medium-chargers) doesn t even list the i8 as being supported but maybe it just hasn t been updated. [He s reviewed the car before in August](http: www.driving.co.uk car-reviews the-clarkson-review-bmw-i8-2014 ) so he should be somewhat familiar with having to charge it. The segment seems to have been [filmed on 9 11 14](https: speakev.com threads clarkson-spotted-in-i8-at-ecotricity-charger-with-camera-crew-in-tow.3790 )

2w1y9t

Here we go again. Top Gear just scripted an EV charging fail for entertainment. [Previous roadster incident](http: www.teslamotors.com blog tesla-vs-top-gear) On the latest Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson was testing a hybrid (BMW i8) Top Gear S22E04 (2 15 15) [VIDEO CLIP (ignore the compression artifacts)](https: vid.me XgnP) Clarkson is shown purposely fumbling trying to charge the i8. Even though the charging point doesn t confirm the charging process was successful Clarkson declares It must be charging it s plugged in. It then cuts to him with a cup of coffee where he says &gt While we wait for the batteries to charge let me show you this incredible app that you can get with your i8 [Here s a screengrab of the app right when he says that](http: i.imgur.com 0T2aFa8.jpg). There s a flashing red icon on the bottom left along with large red CHARGING ERROR text in the center. None of this is mentioned. Clarkson then says: &gt After an hour I went back to the car and found that the charging point hadn t worked. Clarkson and the producers knew the car wasn t charging both at the charger and later from the app but they let the charge fail for entertainment purposes. The show is semi-scripted and this goes along with Jeremy s schtick . **To be fair they do say positive things about the i8 and even voted it the best car of 2014.** I m a fan of the show but it just seems like such a misleading thing to do especially with how much influence they have. They use the we re an entertainment show excuse when they get in trouble but they do legitimate car reviews and people take their advice seriously.

The show isn t semi-scripted. It s scripted in every smallest detail theatre level scripted.

agree. i love tg but their bias against evs are unfounded and ridicilous.

2wfnxw

Owners what do you regret wish you did differently with your model S? Sorry if this question recently has been asked but the last post like this I could was 5 months ago and it s always nice with some discussion

I have the S85 with everything except the rear facing seats. The only thing I regret now is not waiting when I bought the car so I d get the autopilot maybe also getting the D. Then again I don t really need it but it would be nice to have. I think it s to expensive selling the one I have now just to buy a similar one with autopilot. It would be about 30.000 dollars just for that.

Not an owner yet myself but I love these types of discussions. Personally I either will get a 60kWh with all the options or a base 85D with little options. I plan on having it for a long while so sometimes I think the 60kWh is good for battery pack upgrading in the future (while still having my options) but then again I ve always wanted an all-wheel drive. I just don t want any regrets. Range isn t an issue but the 85kWh gets a better warranty and faster SC access... it s a tough one sometimes.

2wfnxw

Owners what do you regret wish you did differently with your model S? Sorry if this question recently has been asked but the last post like this I could was 5 months ago and it s always nice with some discussion

Regrets: * Paying for dual chargers that I can t use. I ordered it this way because it s much more expensive to install after delivery. Hopefully some day I ll be able to use it or the next owner will. * Subzero package. I live in CA. Not sure what I was thinking other than that I might take road trips to family in winter. * I bought snow chains. Haven t used them yet. I keep thinking I ll head to Tahoe. Here s what I *don t* regret: * Pano roof. Opens up the car well. * Glossy obeche wood. Looks classy. * Green color. One of the last of its kind! * Tech package &amp autopilot. Enough said! * No D no problem. Doesn t bother me at all.

Not an owner yet myself but I love these types of discussions. Personally I either will get a 60kWh with all the options or a base 85D with little options. I plan on having it for a long while so sometimes I think the 60kWh is good for battery pack upgrading in the future (while still having my options) but then again I ve always wanted an all-wheel drive. I just don t want any regrets. Range isn t an issue but the 85kWh gets a better warranty and faster SC access... it s a tough one sometimes.

2xph0e

I m being told by multiple people my financial situation makes me an idiot for even considering the purchase of a Model S - how do I stack up against you guys? Right off of the bat I know that buying a nearly 100k car is not a financially sound decision at all. It s a decision driven by my incredible interests in cars technology and Tesla. I m sure many (most) of you can relate with my now decade-long obsession with Tesla and everything they create. I m mid-20s. Just landed my first real job after my first entry-level college gig. Went from 55k year to 95k year + stock options in a company I think has great growth potential (web developer position). My financial situation is sound. I make right under $5 000 mo after taxes insurance and 401k match. My total bills each month are low enough that I put away at least $3 000 mo into my vanguard investments. I have no debts other than a CC that has maybe a balance of ~$200 right now (I pay off in full each month). I have a matching (6%) 401k I also contribute to and my IRA is maxed out for 2014. I have about $80 000 in cash taxable investments and another 40k in 401k and IRA accounts. I don t own a home but I love the condo that I rent and have talked with my landlord about buying it in the future. Between the condo association fee and the mortgage that would deduct about $400 mo from my current savings (the difference between mortgage HOA and my current rent). Naturally everyone is telling me I would be a complete and utter dumbass to spend a year of my salary on a car. It s hard to refute that especially to people who don t understand and think a car is just a car (as it rightfully is to many). My parents and gf are telling me that a car should never cost more than 1 4 of your annual salary. I really can t imagine everyone is making nearly half a million bucks a year to afford a upper-model S. Then again it does sound a bit ridiculous to put it into the perspective of spending a year at work for a vehicle. I suppose my question is to you guys at what level of financial success would you deem someone fully able to purchase a Model S? Should I actually purchase one the purchase price will be right around $100 000. I m not interested in getting a cheaper one if I m going to spend $70 000 on a car I might as well spend $100 000 and get what I actually want. Edit - decided this is a bad idea. My entire financial outlook up until this point has been to save early save often if I want to have a large net-worth someday. Buying this car would ve undone the past 4 years of this thinking and doing.

i was 30 when i got my 2013 Model S i made $46K CAD per year the car was exactly $121 967 CAD after everything for a Performance 85 with everything except dual chargers and child seats nearly everyone i told made fun of me or said that s fucking stupid to spend that much money on a car EVs are crap new technology is crap blah blah blah. everyone tried to give me financial advice even someone said if you had a real job you would be driving an Audi S5 do you know what that is? (he literally asked me if i knew what that was me being a car guy since i was 12 lol) so since everyone pissed me off not giving me any advice that was usable i decided to say fuck those idiots im doing this and im going to do it faster than my original plan of paying it off in 3 years. i decided to cut nearly everything off eating 2 meals a day (now im super fit) only drink water but mainly i worked for food i did favors like detail cars fixed a TON of computers or helped someone move stuff for free food. i still had a mortgage at the time owing $130K and i didnt think i can afford both the house and car so i got 3 jobs my main job of 8-5 (help desk support) doing office moves after hours and buying and selling things on kijiji also i fixed a lot of computers detailed a lot of cars random crap for cash every single dime went to paying off debt even the money i found on the street no matter how insignificant it was because it ads up and it ads up BIG. dec 2011- early 2013 maximum amount of money was being put down on the house thats doubled up weekly payments plus the max lump sum per year 2013 April i paid off the mortgage and put a deposit on the car against the advice of everyone else (if i paid 1¢ faster than how i did it i would of been penalized by the bank for paying it off too early) 2013 July 20th car is delivered still working 3 jobs ( this is the delivery picture http: i.imgur.com vb8XRfa.jpg ) 2013 July 24th quit my help desk job 2013 July 25th got a new job it consulting contracting making good money but still kept the side business of buy sell cell phones computers etc 2014 Nov 15th paid off the car before my 31st birthday (1 year and 3 months way ahead of schedule) in the end everyone was wrong and i was right the Tesla is the best fucking car ive ever sat in let alone driven let alone OWNED. ive taken this thing to so many car shows ive lost count in 2014 i had over 50 car shows booked plus tons of ad hoc ones in parking lots i have never seen so many ppl stare as i drive by. i have never got so many compliments and ive never met so many people (from all the car shows) i got tons of connections now for car parts and whatnot best decision of my entire life hands down nothing can even come close to how great this was. only thing i regret was not setting this up sooner with solar on my roof and paying off the mortgage faster and maybe i should of got dual onboard chargers but i have super chargers near me now so it doesnt matter FREE POWER FOR LIFE. also im debt free and i can do whatever the hell i want but mentally im stuck in cheap mode i still only drink water i still only eat 2 meals a day i still help tons of people with computer stuff and now i change everyone winter tires as well. So the next time someone gives you financial advice its WRONG you make your own future how you see fit.

I would say that for transportation thing 1 year salary is pretty much. But for passion it is a steal. Go for it. As a bonus you will save on gas and service and enjoy great resale value.

2xph0e

I m being told by multiple people my financial situation makes me an idiot for even considering the purchase of a Model S - how do I stack up against you guys? Right off of the bat I know that buying a nearly 100k car is not a financially sound decision at all. It s a decision driven by my incredible interests in cars technology and Tesla. I m sure many (most) of you can relate with my now decade-long obsession with Tesla and everything they create. I m mid-20s. Just landed my first real job after my first entry-level college gig. Went from 55k year to 95k year + stock options in a company I think has great growth potential (web developer position). My financial situation is sound. I make right under $5 000 mo after taxes insurance and 401k match. My total bills each month are low enough that I put away at least $3 000 mo into my vanguard investments. I have no debts other than a CC that has maybe a balance of ~$200 right now (I pay off in full each month). I have a matching (6%) 401k I also contribute to and my IRA is maxed out for 2014. I have about $80 000 in cash taxable investments and another 40k in 401k and IRA accounts. I don t own a home but I love the condo that I rent and have talked with my landlord about buying it in the future. Between the condo association fee and the mortgage that would deduct about $400 mo from my current savings (the difference between mortgage HOA and my current rent). Naturally everyone is telling me I would be a complete and utter dumbass to spend a year of my salary on a car. It s hard to refute that especially to people who don t understand and think a car is just a car (as it rightfully is to many). My parents and gf are telling me that a car should never cost more than 1 4 of your annual salary. I really can t imagine everyone is making nearly half a million bucks a year to afford a upper-model S. Then again it does sound a bit ridiculous to put it into the perspective of spending a year at work for a vehicle. I suppose my question is to you guys at what level of financial success would you deem someone fully able to purchase a Model S? Should I actually purchase one the purchase price will be right around $100 000. I m not interested in getting a cheaper one if I m going to spend $70 000 on a car I might as well spend $100 000 and get what I actually want. Edit - decided this is a bad idea. My entire financial outlook up until this point has been to save early save often if I want to have a large net-worth someday. Buying this car would ve undone the past 4 years of this thinking and doing.

i was 30 when i got my 2013 Model S i made $46K CAD per year the car was exactly $121 967 CAD after everything for a Performance 85 with everything except dual chargers and child seats nearly everyone i told made fun of me or said that s fucking stupid to spend that much money on a car EVs are crap new technology is crap blah blah blah. everyone tried to give me financial advice even someone said if you had a real job you would be driving an Audi S5 do you know what that is? (he literally asked me if i knew what that was me being a car guy since i was 12 lol) so since everyone pissed me off not giving me any advice that was usable i decided to say fuck those idiots im doing this and im going to do it faster than my original plan of paying it off in 3 years. i decided to cut nearly everything off eating 2 meals a day (now im super fit) only drink water but mainly i worked for food i did favors like detail cars fixed a TON of computers or helped someone move stuff for free food. i still had a mortgage at the time owing $130K and i didnt think i can afford both the house and car so i got 3 jobs my main job of 8-5 (help desk support) doing office moves after hours and buying and selling things on kijiji also i fixed a lot of computers detailed a lot of cars random crap for cash every single dime went to paying off debt even the money i found on the street no matter how insignificant it was because it ads up and it ads up BIG. dec 2011- early 2013 maximum amount of money was being put down on the house thats doubled up weekly payments plus the max lump sum per year 2013 April i paid off the mortgage and put a deposit on the car against the advice of everyone else (if i paid 1¢ faster than how i did it i would of been penalized by the bank for paying it off too early) 2013 July 20th car is delivered still working 3 jobs ( this is the delivery picture http: i.imgur.com vb8XRfa.jpg ) 2013 July 24th quit my help desk job 2013 July 25th got a new job it consulting contracting making good money but still kept the side business of buy sell cell phones computers etc 2014 Nov 15th paid off the car before my 31st birthday (1 year and 3 months way ahead of schedule) in the end everyone was wrong and i was right the Tesla is the best fucking car ive ever sat in let alone driven let alone OWNED. ive taken this thing to so many car shows ive lost count in 2014 i had over 50 car shows booked plus tons of ad hoc ones in parking lots i have never seen so many ppl stare as i drive by. i have never got so many compliments and ive never met so many people (from all the car shows) i got tons of connections now for car parts and whatnot best decision of my entire life hands down nothing can even come close to how great this was. only thing i regret was not setting this up sooner with solar on my roof and paying off the mortgage faster and maybe i should of got dual onboard chargers but i have super chargers near me now so it doesnt matter FREE POWER FOR LIFE. also im debt free and i can do whatever the hell i want but mentally im stuck in cheap mode i still only drink water i still only eat 2 meals a day i still help tons of people with computer stuff and now i change everyone winter tires as well. So the next time someone gives you financial advice its WRONG you make your own future how you see fit.

Check out this [site](http: www.teslacost.com) as it prepares a nice analysis for you to read and consider.

2xph0e

I m being told by multiple people my financial situation makes me an idiot for even considering the purchase of a Model S - how do I stack up against you guys? Right off of the bat I know that buying a nearly 100k car is not a financially sound decision at all. It s a decision driven by my incredible interests in cars technology and Tesla. I m sure many (most) of you can relate with my now decade-long obsession with Tesla and everything they create. I m mid-20s. Just landed my first real job after my first entry-level college gig. Went from 55k year to 95k year + stock options in a company I think has great growth potential (web developer position). My financial situation is sound. I make right under $5 000 mo after taxes insurance and 401k match. My total bills each month are low enough that I put away at least $3 000 mo into my vanguard investments. I have no debts other than a CC that has maybe a balance of ~$200 right now (I pay off in full each month). I have a matching (6%) 401k I also contribute to and my IRA is maxed out for 2014. I have about $80 000 in cash taxable investments and another 40k in 401k and IRA accounts. I don t own a home but I love the condo that I rent and have talked with my landlord about buying it in the future. Between the condo association fee and the mortgage that would deduct about $400 mo from my current savings (the difference between mortgage HOA and my current rent). Naturally everyone is telling me I would be a complete and utter dumbass to spend a year of my salary on a car. It s hard to refute that especially to people who don t understand and think a car is just a car (as it rightfully is to many). My parents and gf are telling me that a car should never cost more than 1 4 of your annual salary. I really can t imagine everyone is making nearly half a million bucks a year to afford a upper-model S. Then again it does sound a bit ridiculous to put it into the perspective of spending a year at work for a vehicle. I suppose my question is to you guys at what level of financial success would you deem someone fully able to purchase a Model S? Should I actually purchase one the purchase price will be right around $100 000. I m not interested in getting a cheaper one if I m going to spend $70 000 on a car I might as well spend $100 000 and get what I actually want. Edit - decided this is a bad idea. My entire financial outlook up until this point has been to save early save often if I want to have a large net-worth someday. Buying this car would ve undone the past 4 years of this thinking and doing.

i was 30 when i got my 2013 Model S i made $46K CAD per year the car was exactly $121 967 CAD after everything for a Performance 85 with everything except dual chargers and child seats nearly everyone i told made fun of me or said that s fucking stupid to spend that much money on a car EVs are crap new technology is crap blah blah blah. everyone tried to give me financial advice even someone said if you had a real job you would be driving an Audi S5 do you know what that is? (he literally asked me if i knew what that was me being a car guy since i was 12 lol) so since everyone pissed me off not giving me any advice that was usable i decided to say fuck those idiots im doing this and im going to do it faster than my original plan of paying it off in 3 years. i decided to cut nearly everything off eating 2 meals a day (now im super fit) only drink water but mainly i worked for food i did favors like detail cars fixed a TON of computers or helped someone move stuff for free food. i still had a mortgage at the time owing $130K and i didnt think i can afford both the house and car so i got 3 jobs my main job of 8-5 (help desk support) doing office moves after hours and buying and selling things on kijiji also i fixed a lot of computers detailed a lot of cars random crap for cash every single dime went to paying off debt even the money i found on the street no matter how insignificant it was because it ads up and it ads up BIG. dec 2011- early 2013 maximum amount of money was being put down on the house thats doubled up weekly payments plus the max lump sum per year 2013 April i paid off the mortgage and put a deposit on the car against the advice of everyone else (if i paid 1¢ faster than how i did it i would of been penalized by the bank for paying it off too early) 2013 July 20th car is delivered still working 3 jobs ( this is the delivery picture http: i.imgur.com vb8XRfa.jpg ) 2013 July 24th quit my help desk job 2013 July 25th got a new job it consulting contracting making good money but still kept the side business of buy sell cell phones computers etc 2014 Nov 15th paid off the car before my 31st birthday (1 year and 3 months way ahead of schedule) in the end everyone was wrong and i was right the Tesla is the best fucking car ive ever sat in let alone driven let alone OWNED. ive taken this thing to so many car shows ive lost count in 2014 i had over 50 car shows booked plus tons of ad hoc ones in parking lots i have never seen so many ppl stare as i drive by. i have never got so many compliments and ive never met so many people (from all the car shows) i got tons of connections now for car parts and whatnot best decision of my entire life hands down nothing can even come close to how great this was. only thing i regret was not setting this up sooner with solar on my roof and paying off the mortgage faster and maybe i should of got dual onboard chargers but i have super chargers near me now so it doesnt matter FREE POWER FOR LIFE. also im debt free and i can do whatever the hell i want but mentally im stuck in cheap mode i still only drink water i still only eat 2 meals a day i still help tons of people with computer stuff and now i change everyone winter tires as well. So the next time someone gives you financial advice its WRONG you make your own future how you see fit.

You are doing exceptionally well for your age given the fact that you already have a six figure net worth near six figure salary etc. You are very much correct that spending $100K on a vehicle is ALWAYS a poor financial decision. On paper. Of course we don t live our lives on paper. I have long been frugal myself and aggressively saving for retirement. This was my first big splurge and I felt it one I could justify. I saved up close to 40% for a down payment. The cash was sitting there and I considered investing it and keeping my old car. I decided that really didn t move the needle enough to make me happy. I haven t regretted the purchase once. I am also late 30 s. I don t think it is foolish for you to consider this purchase. I would wonder however if you could get approved for a loan of this amount at your income level. If I were you I d try to come up with $20K minimum for a down payment (not cashing out investments you have saving monthly until you reach this goal) then see if the lenders will work with you. As long as your job is stable and you have an extra $3K monthly right now you aren t spending on other things it would be within reason. Do keep in mind however that a steep monthly car payment in the future while affordable will be a bit of an impediment on saving for a home or other big expenses that many have in their late 20 s.

2zbap8

Someone put up a homemade plywood sign in the red Tesla font next to the SuperChargers about 10ft up on a lamp pole (Brattleboro VT). It said Privileged Parking. I didn t bother taking a picture. I just want you guys to know I cut that bitch down and swung it at the pole snapping it in half. Some people work hard for their shit. I don t even own a Tesla. But my pops he never finished college now some 30-something years later after working his way up from the floor of a control room he is a highly respected nuclear energy procedures expert and has that house on the water he always wanted. People who think Tesla owners are all privileged most likely do not have anywhere near the work ethnic required to get that far in life. It just struck a sour chord in me. rant

Just someone who doesn t understand how to work for what you want so since he doesn t have what he wants he reasons that people who have what he wants were given it because of privilege and not because they earned it. It s sad because they ll never get anywhere in life with that attitude.

Next target: handicapped spots and diesel pumps.

2zbap8

Someone put up a homemade plywood sign in the red Tesla font next to the SuperChargers about 10ft up on a lamp pole (Brattleboro VT). It said Privileged Parking. I didn t bother taking a picture. I just want you guys to know I cut that bitch down and swung it at the pole snapping it in half. Some people work hard for their shit. I don t even own a Tesla. But my pops he never finished college now some 30-something years later after working his way up from the floor of a control room he is a highly respected nuclear energy procedures expert and has that house on the water he always wanted. People who think Tesla owners are all privileged most likely do not have anywhere near the work ethnic required to get that far in life. It just struck a sour chord in me. rant

Conversely I like how wealthy people pretend that the poor man who works 60 hours a week trying to make ends meet just doesn t work hard enough. It s a disgusting attitude. We don t live in a meritocracy. The hardest workers are not paid the most. Even if we did live in that sort of society it would be a form if social Darwinism.

Whoa check your privilege bro

2zbap8

Someone put up a homemade plywood sign in the red Tesla font next to the SuperChargers about 10ft up on a lamp pole (Brattleboro VT). It said Privileged Parking. I didn t bother taking a picture. I just want you guys to know I cut that bitch down and swung it at the pole snapping it in half. Some people work hard for their shit. I don t even own a Tesla. But my pops he never finished college now some 30-something years later after working his way up from the floor of a control room he is a highly respected nuclear energy procedures expert and has that house on the water he always wanted. People who think Tesla owners are all privileged most likely do not have anywhere near the work ethnic required to get that far in life. It just struck a sour chord in me. rant

Conversely I like how wealthy people pretend that the poor man who works 60 hours a week trying to make ends meet just doesn t work hard enough. It s a disgusting attitude. We don t live in a meritocracy. The hardest workers are not paid the most. Even if we did live in that sort of society it would be a form if social Darwinism.

I wonder if the sign-maker views his spot at a gas pump as privileged . And to the poster who said that those hippies in VT should love em I m sure the hippies do but the people who hate hippies also hate Teslas &amp everything they stand for.

2zj1t2

Feature request: Once a Tesla detects it s been in an accident it saves video from the forward and rear camera with footage of a minute prior to the accident. I think it would also be cool if it posted info like current speed GPS location and if the driver s foot was breaking or accelerating.

Must come with a feature to prevent self-incrimination.

The accelerator and brake position are standard recordings for the SRS (airbag) system. The video would be cool but there are lots of laws and other drama involved in recording crash data. Source: crash data forensics engineer (not for Tesla... I wish).

2zkv84

[Official Discussion Thread - Live Updates] Tesla Press Conference Conference Call for a New Software Update - 9am PT **Model S Software Update 6.2** - [read the press kit here](http: www.teslamotors.com presskit) ^This ^is ^the ^discussion ^thread ^about ^the ^announcement. ^Please ^post ^any ^content ^related ^to ^the ^announcement ^in ^this ^thread ^only. Last weekend Elon Musk tweeted about a press conference scheduled for today at **9am PT - 12pm ET** ([world clock](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)). He hinted about a software update affecting the entire Model S fleet that could end range anxiety . You can read the thread about the tweet [here](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2z4dwh elon_musk_on_twitter_tesla_press_conf_at_9am_on ) (tons of speculation included). Tuesday at the GPU Technology Conference in reference to the announcement he talked about a call instead of a press conference . This leads me to believe the setup will be something similar to the Gigafactory annoucement or when SolarCity bought Silevo meaning a conference call like the quarterly ones but with journalists instead of analysts. Although nothing seems scheduled on the planned events on the [Investor Relation website](http: ir.teslamotors.com events.cfm). I ll keep looking but if anyone find something please share here and I ll include it in the post. __________________________ **9:48am PT - 12:48am ET([T+0:48](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Call is over. You ll find most info about 6.2 in the [press kit here](http: www.teslamotors.com presskit) **9:43am PT - 12:43am ET([T+0:43](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Version 6.2 is already in beta now and assuming results of open beta go well we ll start wide release in 10 days or so. **9:42am PT - 12:42am ET([T+0:42](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Musk says software updates will come roughly every 3 to 4 months excluding quad releases. In terms of sig feature releases aiming for every 3 to 4 months. **9:36am PT - 12:36am ET([T+0:36](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Peak demand for Superchargers is on a friday or sunday afternoon. Most of week massive excess capacity but it s sized for peak demand. This year alone we ll approximately double the Supercharger deployed. **9:30am PT - 12:30am ET([T+0:30](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** seeing some steady improvements in Chna and thinks it will be on the upswing. - Musk **9:16am PT - 12:16am ET([T+0:16](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Version 7 of the software will have complete UI overhaul b c the way the car will interact with you in the future. Will also include auto steering. - Testing SF-Seattle route. Can do almost entire route without driver touching the wheel at all. - Also testing the summon feature so car can come and find you. Also can park itself in the garage too. - mproved the audio codec as well to make the sound better in the Model S. It ll be a noticeable improvement Elon says. **9:14am PT - 12:14am ET([T+0:14](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** This release includes automatic emergency breaking a feature that will be in all Tesla cars going forward. I think it ll be extremely powerful in saving lives. - Also some basic things like blind spot warning spot being introduced in this release as well. **9:12am PT - 12:12am ET([T+0:12](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** The second feature is trip planner. It will now look up supercharger in real time to get you to the most convenient route to your destination. You can get messages from Tesla phone app. ... Also tells you how long it might take. Typical journey starts around 9 a.m. drive for 3 hours get bite to eat. We ve placed Superchargers at standard inflection points. Any normal trip Supercharger network and time driven time ratio works out really well. **9:10am PT - 12:10am ET([T+0:10](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Over next 12 months all over Europe North America Japan main islands and good chunks of Asia will be covered... Also factors in wind speeds high mountain ranges. Don t need to do any thinking ahead of time.... It s basically impossible to run out of range unless you do so intentionally **9:09am PT - 12:09am ET([T+0:09](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** The first of the two application is range assurance application. This in real time communicates with Superchargers and destination chargers and it warns you before you drive out of range. **9:05am PT - 12:05am ET([T+0:05](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still music... **8:25am PT - 11:25am ET([T-0:35](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still nothing concrete on wether or not we can listen in on the call or press conference. u Godspeedingticket suggests to call 877-312-5519 when the time comes. That s the media advisory number. **7:25am PT - 10:25am ET([T-1:35](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still no information wether or not we will be able to listen to the call. **5:45am PT - 8:45am ET([T-3:15](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Discussion Tread is live. ________________________

Musk: Any restaraunt business which has Model S owners can get charging equipment for free provided they put it in a prominent place. Musk: This year more superchargers deployed in the world than sum of all superchargers to date. --I thought this was HUGE.

Can we listen to the call announcement anywhere live?

2zkv84

[Official Discussion Thread - Live Updates] Tesla Press Conference Conference Call for a New Software Update - 9am PT **Model S Software Update 6.2** - [read the press kit here](http: www.teslamotors.com presskit) ^This ^is ^the ^discussion ^thread ^about ^the ^announcement. ^Please ^post ^any ^content ^related ^to ^the ^announcement ^in ^this ^thread ^only. Last weekend Elon Musk tweeted about a press conference scheduled for today at **9am PT - 12pm ET** ([world clock](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)). He hinted about a software update affecting the entire Model S fleet that could end range anxiety . You can read the thread about the tweet [here](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2z4dwh elon_musk_on_twitter_tesla_press_conf_at_9am_on ) (tons of speculation included). Tuesday at the GPU Technology Conference in reference to the announcement he talked about a call instead of a press conference . This leads me to believe the setup will be something similar to the Gigafactory annoucement or when SolarCity bought Silevo meaning a conference call like the quarterly ones but with journalists instead of analysts. Although nothing seems scheduled on the planned events on the [Investor Relation website](http: ir.teslamotors.com events.cfm). I ll keep looking but if anyone find something please share here and I ll include it in the post. __________________________ **9:48am PT - 12:48am ET([T+0:48](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Call is over. You ll find most info about 6.2 in the [press kit here](http: www.teslamotors.com presskit) **9:43am PT - 12:43am ET([T+0:43](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Version 6.2 is already in beta now and assuming results of open beta go well we ll start wide release in 10 days or so. **9:42am PT - 12:42am ET([T+0:42](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Musk says software updates will come roughly every 3 to 4 months excluding quad releases. In terms of sig feature releases aiming for every 3 to 4 months. **9:36am PT - 12:36am ET([T+0:36](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Peak demand for Superchargers is on a friday or sunday afternoon. Most of week massive excess capacity but it s sized for peak demand. This year alone we ll approximately double the Supercharger deployed. **9:30am PT - 12:30am ET([T+0:30](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** seeing some steady improvements in Chna and thinks it will be on the upswing. - Musk **9:16am PT - 12:16am ET([T+0:16](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Version 7 of the software will have complete UI overhaul b c the way the car will interact with you in the future. Will also include auto steering. - Testing SF-Seattle route. Can do almost entire route without driver touching the wheel at all. - Also testing the summon feature so car can come and find you. Also can park itself in the garage too. - mproved the audio codec as well to make the sound better in the Model S. It ll be a noticeable improvement Elon says. **9:14am PT - 12:14am ET([T+0:14](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** This release includes automatic emergency breaking a feature that will be in all Tesla cars going forward. I think it ll be extremely powerful in saving lives. - Also some basic things like blind spot warning spot being introduced in this release as well. **9:12am PT - 12:12am ET([T+0:12](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** The second feature is trip planner. It will now look up supercharger in real time to get you to the most convenient route to your destination. You can get messages from Tesla phone app. ... Also tells you how long it might take. Typical journey starts around 9 a.m. drive for 3 hours get bite to eat. We ve placed Superchargers at standard inflection points. Any normal trip Supercharger network and time driven time ratio works out really well. **9:10am PT - 12:10am ET([T+0:10](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Over next 12 months all over Europe North America Japan main islands and good chunks of Asia will be covered... Also factors in wind speeds high mountain ranges. Don t need to do any thinking ahead of time.... It s basically impossible to run out of range unless you do so intentionally **9:09am PT - 12:09am ET([T+0:09](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** The first of the two application is range assurance application. This in real time communicates with Superchargers and destination chargers and it warns you before you drive out of range. **9:05am PT - 12:05am ET([T+0:05](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still music... **8:25am PT - 11:25am ET([T-0:35](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still nothing concrete on wether or not we can listen in on the call or press conference. u Godspeedingticket suggests to call 877-312-5519 when the time comes. That s the media advisory number. **7:25am PT - 10:25am ET([T-1:35](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still no information wether or not we will be able to listen to the call. **5:45am PT - 8:45am ET([T-3:15](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Discussion Tread is live. ________________________

Musk: Any restaraunt business which has Model S owners can get charging equipment for free provided they put it in a prominent place. Musk: This year more superchargers deployed in the world than sum of all superchargers to date. --I thought this was HUGE.

&gt Testing SF-Seattle route. Can do almost entire route without driver touching the wheel at all. Ok. That. is. cool.

2zkv84

[Official Discussion Thread - Live Updates] Tesla Press Conference Conference Call for a New Software Update - 9am PT **Model S Software Update 6.2** - [read the press kit here](http: www.teslamotors.com presskit) ^This ^is ^the ^discussion ^thread ^about ^the ^announcement. ^Please ^post ^any ^content ^related ^to ^the ^announcement ^in ^this ^thread ^only. Last weekend Elon Musk tweeted about a press conference scheduled for today at **9am PT - 12pm ET** ([world clock](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)). He hinted about a software update affecting the entire Model S fleet that could end range anxiety . You can read the thread about the tweet [here](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2z4dwh elon_musk_on_twitter_tesla_press_conf_at_9am_on ) (tons of speculation included). Tuesday at the GPU Technology Conference in reference to the announcement he talked about a call instead of a press conference . This leads me to believe the setup will be something similar to the Gigafactory annoucement or when SolarCity bought Silevo meaning a conference call like the quarterly ones but with journalists instead of analysts. Although nothing seems scheduled on the planned events on the [Investor Relation website](http: ir.teslamotors.com events.cfm). I ll keep looking but if anyone find something please share here and I ll include it in the post. __________________________ **9:48am PT - 12:48am ET([T+0:48](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Call is over. You ll find most info about 6.2 in the [press kit here](http: www.teslamotors.com presskit) **9:43am PT - 12:43am ET([T+0:43](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Version 6.2 is already in beta now and assuming results of open beta go well we ll start wide release in 10 days or so. **9:42am PT - 12:42am ET([T+0:42](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Musk says software updates will come roughly every 3 to 4 months excluding quad releases. In terms of sig feature releases aiming for every 3 to 4 months. **9:36am PT - 12:36am ET([T+0:36](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Peak demand for Superchargers is on a friday or sunday afternoon. Most of week massive excess capacity but it s sized for peak demand. This year alone we ll approximately double the Supercharger deployed. **9:30am PT - 12:30am ET([T+0:30](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** seeing some steady improvements in Chna and thinks it will be on the upswing. - Musk **9:16am PT - 12:16am ET([T+0:16](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Version 7 of the software will have complete UI overhaul b c the way the car will interact with you in the future. Will also include auto steering. - Testing SF-Seattle route. Can do almost entire route without driver touching the wheel at all. - Also testing the summon feature so car can come and find you. Also can park itself in the garage too. - mproved the audio codec as well to make the sound better in the Model S. It ll be a noticeable improvement Elon says. **9:14am PT - 12:14am ET([T+0:14](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** This release includes automatic emergency breaking a feature that will be in all Tesla cars going forward. I think it ll be extremely powerful in saving lives. - Also some basic things like blind spot warning spot being introduced in this release as well. **9:12am PT - 12:12am ET([T+0:12](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** The second feature is trip planner. It will now look up supercharger in real time to get you to the most convenient route to your destination. You can get messages from Tesla phone app. ... Also tells you how long it might take. Typical journey starts around 9 a.m. drive for 3 hours get bite to eat. We ve placed Superchargers at standard inflection points. Any normal trip Supercharger network and time driven time ratio works out really well. **9:10am PT - 12:10am ET([T+0:10](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Over next 12 months all over Europe North America Japan main islands and good chunks of Asia will be covered... Also factors in wind speeds high mountain ranges. Don t need to do any thinking ahead of time.... It s basically impossible to run out of range unless you do so intentionally **9:09am PT - 12:09am ET([T+0:09](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** The first of the two application is range assurance application. This in real time communicates with Superchargers and destination chargers and it warns you before you drive out of range. **9:05am PT - 12:05am ET([T+0:05](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still music... **8:25am PT - 11:25am ET([T-0:35](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still nothing concrete on wether or not we can listen in on the call or press conference. u Godspeedingticket suggests to call 877-312-5519 when the time comes. That s the media advisory number. **7:25am PT - 10:25am ET([T-1:35](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Still no information wether or not we will be able to listen to the call. **5:45am PT - 8:45am ET([T-3:15](http: www.timeanddate.com worldclock fixedtime.html?msg=Tesla+Press+Release&amp iso=20150319T09&amp p1=137&amp ah=1)):** Discussion Tread is live. ________________________

Musk: Any restaraunt business which has Model S owners can get charging equipment for free provided they put it in a prominent place. Musk: This year more superchargers deployed in the world than sum of all superchargers to date. --I thought this was HUGE.

Updates seem to indicate there s speaking I m still listening to classical music though...?

3010s9

Yknow what the worst thing is about not being able to afford a Model S? (warning: mini rant) So my daily commute is a 120 mile round trip as is the nature of the UK (80% of professional jobs are in London where the house prices are 30x as much as the rest of the country) and my office is in a business Park that I have to drive to. So I drive there and back every day literally killing the world with my ICE car while attempting to save up for that Tesla... And the worst thing is having to buy petrol. Petrol that I don t even want to be using which is eating into the money I could be putting toward the Tesla! God damn it. The Model 3 can t come soon enough.

I would add to that and say repairs. I m so sick of repairing dumb shit on my car. Cam position senors. spark plugs. Secondary air injection pump. Coil packs. Air filters. Fuel pump. Oil filters. Fuel filter. Transmission flush. Idler pulley. And I still have a stupid fucking check engine light on. The thing I like about Tesla is that it s just like an airplane these days. A driving computer. At work I can go into the cockpit and access a maintenance page pull up a certain task run a PBIT test find if it passed or failed find the task number to replace the failed part. That easy. I can download fault history. With every other car manufacturer this isn t how it works at all.

I only drive about half the number of miles everyday but I can relate. I drive across a metro area everyday (60 miles round trip) in my compact SUV and really want to hold out for the Model 3 for a new car it can t come soon enough.

31ifpq

Can someone who is American or understands American law please explain how Tesla sales can be banned on a state by state basis? I mean doesn t that destroy the whole point of a free market? Why can certain states just say on a whim nah we don t like this company they can fuck off It all seems very bizarre from someone who lives in the UK where we don t have anything like this and the recent Tesla ban in whereeveritwas is the first I ve heard of anything like it happening.

Tesla sales are not banned in any states. What is banned in some states is Tesla s ability to open up their own manufacturer-owned dealerships. Auto dealerships are typically owned independently of the manufacturer and some represent multiple manufacturers. [Here are way way more words than you wanted to see about it](http: www.justice.gov atr public eag 246374.htm) courtesy of our Justice department.

http: www.britannica.com EBchecked topic 291661 interstate-commerce A bit of history congress can always step in if the benefit of congruity is deemed of higher value than the individual freedom of the state.

33cdi1

[Discussion] Are Teslas Forever Cars ? While I ve convinced my wife our first Tesla will not be before the M3 comes out I m open to the idea we might substitute our Odyssey or Pilot for the MX after that point. This got me thinking: would those Teslas then be forever cars . Parts that would most likely break down on an ICE (and lead to the purchase of a new vehicle) don t exist on an EV. In the case of the Teslas the batteries will have to be swapped out and motors CPUs will eventually be non-operative but they can be swapped out too. So assuming $12k to replace a battery or whatever it would cost to replace a dead motor or CPU it would be far cheaper to have those replacements made then it would be to even purchase a cheap ICE. If I m a frugal person and have no need to impress others might my future Tesla (or equivalent) be the last car I buy?

Don t forget about suspension and the front end. Every car wears out ball joints tie rod ends steering racks bushings etc after some time. There is more than the power train to maintain. There was another thread I think in r electricvehicles talking about breakdown of long term maintenance costs.

To me it depends on Tesla. If the company stops supporting the MS takes out superchargers or simply goes under I m out.

33cdi1

[Discussion] Are Teslas Forever Cars ? While I ve convinced my wife our first Tesla will not be before the M3 comes out I m open to the idea we might substitute our Odyssey or Pilot for the MX after that point. This got me thinking: would those Teslas then be forever cars . Parts that would most likely break down on an ICE (and lead to the purchase of a new vehicle) don t exist on an EV. In the case of the Teslas the batteries will have to be swapped out and motors CPUs will eventually be non-operative but they can be swapped out too. So assuming $12k to replace a battery or whatever it would cost to replace a dead motor or CPU it would be far cheaper to have those replacements made then it would be to even purchase a cheap ICE. If I m a frugal person and have no need to impress others might my future Tesla (or equivalent) be the last car I buy?

Don t forget about suspension and the front end. Every car wears out ball joints tie rod ends steering racks bushings etc after some time. There is more than the power train to maintain. There was another thread I think in r electricvehicles talking about breakdown of long term maintenance costs.

Interiors don t last forever either.

33cdi1

[Discussion] Are Teslas Forever Cars ? While I ve convinced my wife our first Tesla will not be before the M3 comes out I m open to the idea we might substitute our Odyssey or Pilot for the MX after that point. This got me thinking: would those Teslas then be forever cars . Parts that would most likely break down on an ICE (and lead to the purchase of a new vehicle) don t exist on an EV. In the case of the Teslas the batteries will have to be swapped out and motors CPUs will eventually be non-operative but they can be swapped out too. So assuming $12k to replace a battery or whatever it would cost to replace a dead motor or CPU it would be far cheaper to have those replacements made then it would be to even purchase a cheap ICE. If I m a frugal person and have no need to impress others might my future Tesla (or equivalent) be the last car I buy?

Don t forget about suspension and the front end. Every car wears out ball joints tie rod ends steering racks bushings etc after some time. There is more than the power train to maintain. There was another thread I think in r electricvehicles talking about breakdown of long term maintenance costs.

My biggest concern would be the interior controls (touch screen and dash) failing due to solder problems or other issues over time. The entire system can probably be replaced altogether though with a device that writes the same signals to the CANbus.

33ur9v

FYI- Tesla site has been hacked The site says it s been hacked by Autismsquad. Might want to steer clear for a bit.

Elon Musk is sending SpaceX rockets to the hacker s houses this time it doesn t matter if the rockets explode on landing.

I get the same thing. Very odd!

33ur9v

FYI- Tesla site has been hacked The site says it s been hacked by Autismsquad. Might want to steer clear for a bit.

Elon Musk is sending SpaceX rockets to the hacker s houses this time it doesn t matter if the rockets explode on landing.

Twitter taken as well.

33ur9v

FYI- Tesla site has been hacked The site says it s been hacked by Autismsquad. Might want to steer clear for a bit.

Elon Musk is sending SpaceX rockets to the hacker s houses this time it doesn t matter if the rockets explode on landing.

YUP my phone is blowing up right now with rogue tweets.

33ztej

Anyone else feel this is unnecessarily misleading? On the website for the Model S you can pick the 3 different models. It claims a certain price under it but then to the side you see the true cost of the vehicle. It gets away with it by saying you save this much over 5 years by not using gas which happens to be $10 000 therefore deducting the $10 000 from under the different models prices.

This kind of marketing flimflam cheapens their image and makes me think of used car dealers. I wish they d knock it off.

Yeah they generally have done stuff like that advertising prices after all sorts of incentives and savings. I don t have a problem with that current page they make it pretty clear beneath the price about the adjustments. It does make me think inventory isn t flying out the factory as quickly as they would like us to think it is otherwise they wouldn t go through such lengths for marketing the fake price.

33ztej

Anyone else feel this is unnecessarily misleading? On the website for the Model S you can pick the 3 different models. It claims a certain price under it but then to the side you see the true cost of the vehicle. It gets away with it by saying you save this much over 5 years by not using gas which happens to be $10 000 therefore deducting the $10 000 from under the different models prices.

This kind of marketing flimflam cheapens their image and makes me think of used car dealers. I wish they d knock it off.

It s hard. How do you convince somebody worried about price that they really are saving a boatload of money by not buying a fuel whose price can fluctuate wildly. I agree that should be a different color next to the full price but when the cars they re up against don t have to advertise the full price of their vehicle as in: Mercedes+ 400gallons year * 5 years = an extra $6000-$8000... I can see why they think that way.

33ztej

Anyone else feel this is unnecessarily misleading? On the website for the Model S you can pick the 3 different models. It claims a certain price under it but then to the side you see the true cost of the vehicle. It gets away with it by saying you save this much over 5 years by not using gas which happens to be $10 000 therefore deducting the $10 000 from under the different models prices.

I do not agree with it. I actually got super exited when I saw $55k as the base 70D price then kept reading and got sad... Anyway... I do not mind if they make that the second price you read further down the page but as the first numbers to show up... that is just wrong.

Yeah they generally have done stuff like that advertising prices after all sorts of incentives and savings. I don t have a problem with that current page they make it pretty clear beneath the price about the adjustments. It does make me think inventory isn t flying out the factory as quickly as they would like us to think it is otherwise they wouldn t go through such lengths for marketing the fake price.

34bwzx

[Official Thread - Discussion and Updates] Tesla s Home Energy Storage Announcement and Event [Thursday April 30th at 8PM PT – 11PM ET] On March 30th Elon Musk [tweeted](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 582581865682350080): &gt Major new Tesla product line -- not a car -- will be unveiled at our Hawthorne Design Studio on Thurs 8pm April 30 Tesla has since confirmed through an email to investors and analysts that they will unveil stationary energy storage products for both residential and commercial use as well as for utilities. ____________ Please keep your posts (links or text posts) about the unveiling of these products in this thread. The sub gets a lot of very similar submissions during and right after big Tesla events. Remember to change sorted by to new and to refresh this page if you want to follow the posts in real time in the thread and contribute to the conversations. _________ **The Event** The event is invite only mainly for owners and the media. It is held at Tesla s Design Studio next to the Hawthorne Airport and starts at 8PM PT (local) – 11PM ET - [Countdown to the event](https: www.timeanddate.com countdown to?iso=20150430T20&amp p0=137&amp msg=Tesla%27s+April+30th+Announcement&amp csz=1) Tesla s design studio and SpaceX s headquarters are located right next to the airport. [Picture of the airport](https: imgur.com jCMI3mP) - [Google Earth](https: www.google.ca maps place Hawthorne+Municipal+Airport @33.9214297 -118.3325989 692m data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xc043ce6eb8378ff4) I ve heard that unlike with the D event Tesla will have an official live stream of the event. Once we have access I ll share the link here. Here s the link: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream ______________ **Live Updates** * **T + 1 hour:** Musk is off stage. * **T + 1 hour:** Talking gigafactory. Seeing it as a product. many more to come. * **T + 1 hour:** The event is powered by batteries as some have predicted. * **T + 1 hour:** Tesla s selling price to installers is $3500 for 10kWh and $3000 for 7kWh. (Price excludes inverter and installation.) Deliveries begin in late Summer. * **T + 55 minutes:** existing battery (for home energy storage) sucks - Musk * **T + 53 minutes:** Musk is selling solar and the role of energy storage. * **T + 49 minutes:** Musk is on stage. Announcing Tesla Energy. * **T + 33 minutes:** Excuse my language but fuck it. There s suppose to be an embargo on press kit until Musk gets on stage but the links are being posted faster than I can remove them so here it is: http: www.teslamotors.com presskit teslaenergy * **T + 27 minutes:** Tesla s now is not your average now. * **T + 23 minutes:** QA with press over it should start like now or something * **T + 12 minutes:** This will of comparable size to the car industry Musk. * **T + 5 minutes:** Musk is also talking about the gigafactory to the press. * **T + 1 minutes:** Video is live. Embargo lifts in minutes. All the juicy stuff is coming. * **T - 2 minutes:** Get excited for the prices. most of the guess I ve seen on the sub were dead wrong. * **T - 4 minutes:** Wow guys. I m telling you. It s great stuff. * **T - 6 minutes:** Elon is having a QA with the press right now. From what I ve seen so far we ll have ton of info to go through. * **T - 12 minutes:** Stream is live. stay tuned our program will begin shortyl . * **T - 15 minutes:** Here s more picture from the event. Stream should start soon. https: twitter.com markgurman status 593967615887872000 * **T - 49 minutes:** Resetting countdown to [Tesla s stream](https: livestream.com accounts 4186560 events 3997049 player?width=640&amp height=360&amp autoPlay=true&amp mute=false). * **T - 25 minutes:** commercial battery pack: https: twitter.com TomerDavid_ status 593964617161805824 * **T - 27 minutes:** Musk arrived https: twitter.com ccharlesreed status 593964195839803392 * **T - 57 minutes:** People are arriving to the event: https: twitter.com MeganGeuss status 593957739853787136 * **T - 1 hour:** Nothing new to report. Still no feed. Still most likely pushed to 8:30PM PT * **T - 2 hours:** Event might have been pushed to 8:30PM PT. * **T - 4 hours:** Tesla updated the livestream link: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream Still no feed though. * **T - 5 hours:** I m home and ready for this! TSLA took a 2% hit today. Now trading sideways aftermarket. Investors think the run-up this month priced the event in TSLA. Tesla will need to surprise. Aftermarket will be close during the event so it will be interesting to watch tomorrow. * **T - 12 hours:** Tesla confirmed the link to the livestream: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream * **T - 15 hours:** I m back. Nothing new to report. TSLA is trading sideways during premarket hours. * **T - 28 hours:** r teslamotors s official thread goes live

Here s a bingo card I made for the event tonight. Seems it s gone viral in a few social outlets. Bloomberg also called me to ask permission to use it... http: imgur.com 4isDuX6

Any guesses on low end and high end storage size? I say 5 and 15kwh

34bwzx

[Official Thread - Discussion and Updates] Tesla s Home Energy Storage Announcement and Event [Thursday April 30th at 8PM PT – 11PM ET] On March 30th Elon Musk [tweeted](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 582581865682350080): &gt Major new Tesla product line -- not a car -- will be unveiled at our Hawthorne Design Studio on Thurs 8pm April 30 Tesla has since confirmed through an email to investors and analysts that they will unveil stationary energy storage products for both residential and commercial use as well as for utilities. ____________ Please keep your posts (links or text posts) about the unveiling of these products in this thread. The sub gets a lot of very similar submissions during and right after big Tesla events. Remember to change sorted by to new and to refresh this page if you want to follow the posts in real time in the thread and contribute to the conversations. _________ **The Event** The event is invite only mainly for owners and the media. It is held at Tesla s Design Studio next to the Hawthorne Airport and starts at 8PM PT (local) – 11PM ET - [Countdown to the event](https: www.timeanddate.com countdown to?iso=20150430T20&amp p0=137&amp msg=Tesla%27s+April+30th+Announcement&amp csz=1) Tesla s design studio and SpaceX s headquarters are located right next to the airport. [Picture of the airport](https: imgur.com jCMI3mP) - [Google Earth](https: www.google.ca maps place Hawthorne+Municipal+Airport @33.9214297 -118.3325989 692m data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xc043ce6eb8378ff4) I ve heard that unlike with the D event Tesla will have an official live stream of the event. Once we have access I ll share the link here. Here s the link: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream ______________ **Live Updates** * **T + 1 hour:** Musk is off stage. * **T + 1 hour:** Talking gigafactory. Seeing it as a product. many more to come. * **T + 1 hour:** The event is powered by batteries as some have predicted. * **T + 1 hour:** Tesla s selling price to installers is $3500 for 10kWh and $3000 for 7kWh. (Price excludes inverter and installation.) Deliveries begin in late Summer. * **T + 55 minutes:** existing battery (for home energy storage) sucks - Musk * **T + 53 minutes:** Musk is selling solar and the role of energy storage. * **T + 49 minutes:** Musk is on stage. Announcing Tesla Energy. * **T + 33 minutes:** Excuse my language but fuck it. There s suppose to be an embargo on press kit until Musk gets on stage but the links are being posted faster than I can remove them so here it is: http: www.teslamotors.com presskit teslaenergy * **T + 27 minutes:** Tesla s now is not your average now. * **T + 23 minutes:** QA with press over it should start like now or something * **T + 12 minutes:** This will of comparable size to the car industry Musk. * **T + 5 minutes:** Musk is also talking about the gigafactory to the press. * **T + 1 minutes:** Video is live. Embargo lifts in minutes. All the juicy stuff is coming. * **T - 2 minutes:** Get excited for the prices. most of the guess I ve seen on the sub were dead wrong. * **T - 4 minutes:** Wow guys. I m telling you. It s great stuff. * **T - 6 minutes:** Elon is having a QA with the press right now. From what I ve seen so far we ll have ton of info to go through. * **T - 12 minutes:** Stream is live. stay tuned our program will begin shortyl . * **T - 15 minutes:** Here s more picture from the event. Stream should start soon. https: twitter.com markgurman status 593967615887872000 * **T - 49 minutes:** Resetting countdown to [Tesla s stream](https: livestream.com accounts 4186560 events 3997049 player?width=640&amp height=360&amp autoPlay=true&amp mute=false). * **T - 25 minutes:** commercial battery pack: https: twitter.com TomerDavid_ status 593964617161805824 * **T - 27 minutes:** Musk arrived https: twitter.com ccharlesreed status 593964195839803392 * **T - 57 minutes:** People are arriving to the event: https: twitter.com MeganGeuss status 593957739853787136 * **T - 1 hour:** Nothing new to report. Still no feed. Still most likely pushed to 8:30PM PT * **T - 2 hours:** Event might have been pushed to 8:30PM PT. * **T - 4 hours:** Tesla updated the livestream link: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream Still no feed though. * **T - 5 hours:** I m home and ready for this! TSLA took a 2% hit today. Now trading sideways aftermarket. Investors think the run-up this month priced the event in TSLA. Tesla will need to surprise. Aftermarket will be close during the event so it will be interesting to watch tomorrow. * **T - 12 hours:** Tesla confirmed the link to the livestream: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream * **T - 15 hours:** I m back. Nothing new to report. TSLA is trading sideways during premarket hours. * **T - 28 hours:** r teslamotors s official thread goes live

Here s a bingo card I made for the event tonight. Seems it s gone viral in a few social outlets. Bloomberg also called me to ask permission to use it... http: imgur.com 4isDuX6

I hope to see a greatly increased partnership with SolarCity on this announcement. These home batteries could be absolutely huge to both companies if solar continues to rise exponentially as it has: http: www.wired.com wp-content uploads 2015 03 solar-1-chart.jpg

34bwzx

[Official Thread - Discussion and Updates] Tesla s Home Energy Storage Announcement and Event [Thursday April 30th at 8PM PT – 11PM ET] On March 30th Elon Musk [tweeted](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 582581865682350080): &gt Major new Tesla product line -- not a car -- will be unveiled at our Hawthorne Design Studio on Thurs 8pm April 30 Tesla has since confirmed through an email to investors and analysts that they will unveil stationary energy storage products for both residential and commercial use as well as for utilities. ____________ Please keep your posts (links or text posts) about the unveiling of these products in this thread. The sub gets a lot of very similar submissions during and right after big Tesla events. Remember to change sorted by to new and to refresh this page if you want to follow the posts in real time in the thread and contribute to the conversations. _________ **The Event** The event is invite only mainly for owners and the media. It is held at Tesla s Design Studio next to the Hawthorne Airport and starts at 8PM PT (local) – 11PM ET - [Countdown to the event](https: www.timeanddate.com countdown to?iso=20150430T20&amp p0=137&amp msg=Tesla%27s+April+30th+Announcement&amp csz=1) Tesla s design studio and SpaceX s headquarters are located right next to the airport. [Picture of the airport](https: imgur.com jCMI3mP) - [Google Earth](https: www.google.ca maps place Hawthorne+Municipal+Airport @33.9214297 -118.3325989 692m data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xc043ce6eb8378ff4) I ve heard that unlike with the D event Tesla will have an official live stream of the event. Once we have access I ll share the link here. Here s the link: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream ______________ **Live Updates** * **T + 1 hour:** Musk is off stage. * **T + 1 hour:** Talking gigafactory. Seeing it as a product. many more to come. * **T + 1 hour:** The event is powered by batteries as some have predicted. * **T + 1 hour:** Tesla s selling price to installers is $3500 for 10kWh and $3000 for 7kWh. (Price excludes inverter and installation.) Deliveries begin in late Summer. * **T + 55 minutes:** existing battery (for home energy storage) sucks - Musk * **T + 53 minutes:** Musk is selling solar and the role of energy storage. * **T + 49 minutes:** Musk is on stage. Announcing Tesla Energy. * **T + 33 minutes:** Excuse my language but fuck it. There s suppose to be an embargo on press kit until Musk gets on stage but the links are being posted faster than I can remove them so here it is: http: www.teslamotors.com presskit teslaenergy * **T + 27 minutes:** Tesla s now is not your average now. * **T + 23 minutes:** QA with press over it should start like now or something * **T + 12 minutes:** This will of comparable size to the car industry Musk. * **T + 5 minutes:** Musk is also talking about the gigafactory to the press. * **T + 1 minutes:** Video is live. Embargo lifts in minutes. All the juicy stuff is coming. * **T - 2 minutes:** Get excited for the prices. most of the guess I ve seen on the sub were dead wrong. * **T - 4 minutes:** Wow guys. I m telling you. It s great stuff. * **T - 6 minutes:** Elon is having a QA with the press right now. From what I ve seen so far we ll have ton of info to go through. * **T - 12 minutes:** Stream is live. stay tuned our program will begin shortyl . * **T - 15 minutes:** Here s more picture from the event. Stream should start soon. https: twitter.com markgurman status 593967615887872000 * **T - 49 minutes:** Resetting countdown to [Tesla s stream](https: livestream.com accounts 4186560 events 3997049 player?width=640&amp height=360&amp autoPlay=true&amp mute=false). * **T - 25 minutes:** commercial battery pack: https: twitter.com TomerDavid_ status 593964617161805824 * **T - 27 minutes:** Musk arrived https: twitter.com ccharlesreed status 593964195839803392 * **T - 57 minutes:** People are arriving to the event: https: twitter.com MeganGeuss status 593957739853787136 * **T - 1 hour:** Nothing new to report. Still no feed. Still most likely pushed to 8:30PM PT * **T - 2 hours:** Event might have been pushed to 8:30PM PT. * **T - 4 hours:** Tesla updated the livestream link: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream Still no feed though. * **T - 5 hours:** I m home and ready for this! TSLA took a 2% hit today. Now trading sideways aftermarket. Investors think the run-up this month priced the event in TSLA. Tesla will need to surprise. Aftermarket will be close during the event so it will be interesting to watch tomorrow. * **T - 12 hours:** Tesla confirmed the link to the livestream: http: www.teslamotors.com livestream * **T - 15 hours:** I m back. Nothing new to report. TSLA is trading sideways during premarket hours. * **T - 28 hours:** r teslamotors s official thread goes live

Here s a bingo card I made for the event tonight. Seems it s gone viral in a few social outlets. Bloomberg also called me to ask permission to use it... http: imgur.com 4isDuX6

Made small look up for a last stock price (yahoo finance) month and two Stoarage tweets from Elon: http: i.imgur.com RpHV0LX.png

34fy71

Owners: What was your car before buying a Tesla? Maybe this question has been asked before. I believe that people who would not spend 80-120k on a car are now doing so because of the it s a Tesla. Sure there are savings but I think there are a lot of owners who would not have otherwise spend that amount of money on a car until Tesla came along. So what was your car before the Tesla and or what car would you have gotten if not a Tesla

Bicycle and public transportation. I m picking up 85D (my first car @ age 34!) next monday... I m losing sleep...

A Leaf(leased for 2 years) we also have a prius for backup for long range driving w o backup. If I hadn t bought a Model S then I might have bought our Leaf outright so I could drive it for a few more years till the Model 3 was released. New Leafs don t interest me much because they really haven t improved much since 2013. Other EVs and plug-ins are still pretty lame with short ranges and few charging stations. I have never owned a luxury vehicle before and wouldn t consider buying one with an ICE based drivetrain.

34fy71

Owners: What was your car before buying a Tesla? Maybe this question has been asked before. I believe that people who would not spend 80-120k on a car are now doing so because of the it s a Tesla. Sure there are savings but I think there are a lot of owners who would not have otherwise spend that amount of money on a car until Tesla came along. So what was your car before the Tesla and or what car would you have gotten if not a Tesla

Bicycle and public transportation. I m picking up 85D (my first car @ age 34!) next monday... I m losing sleep...

We have a 2015 Kia Soul EV and a 2014 Kia Forte Sx we will sell the Forte when we get our model S in June to keep 2 EV no more gas!

34fy71

Owners: What was your car before buying a Tesla? Maybe this question has been asked before. I believe that people who would not spend 80-120k on a car are now doing so because of the it s a Tesla. Sure there are savings but I think there are a lot of owners who would not have otherwise spend that amount of money on a car until Tesla came along. So what was your car before the Tesla and or what car would you have gotten if not a Tesla

Bicycle and public transportation. I m picking up 85D (my first car @ age 34!) next monday... I m losing sleep...

Currently driving a Mazda 6 GT-M waiting for my S85D for another couple of weeks. Would not have spend this much on any other car...

34ij3o

Elon Musk did not consider subreddit confusion when creating Tesla Energy Now that Tesla Energy has started where are we to discuss it? This sub is called teslamotors and r tesla is already taken for Nikola Tesla. Should there be a new subreddit called teslaenergy? That s not a great solution either because the work is so related to Tesla Motors. I m surprised Musk overlooked this glaring detail.

The company is still called Tesla Motors.

http: www.reddit.com r teslaenergy

36t91m

Would you drive an ugly Model 3? [I recently saw this rendering.](http: imgur.com WiIVnYm) And it occurred to me that even though I want an EV and especially a Tesla. I don t know if I could drive something that looked like that... Would anyone else not get a 3 or future model due to its looks? (but comes with all the perks?)

Didn t Elon once say that he doesn t understand why car companies make ugly cars since the cost of shaping body panels with a stamping press is the same regardless of their shape?

I would drive a hideously ugly Model III if it was quick and performed well.

36t91m

Would you drive an ugly Model 3? [I recently saw this rendering.](http: imgur.com WiIVnYm) And it occurred to me that even though I want an EV and especially a Tesla. I don t know if I could drive something that looked like that... Would anyone else not get a 3 or future model due to its looks? (but comes with all the perks?)

Didn t Elon once say that he doesn t understand why car companies make ugly cars since the cost of shaping body panels with a stamping press is the same regardless of their shape?

hahahahhah! that is awful. looks like a cartoon X.

36t91m

Would you drive an ugly Model 3? [I recently saw this rendering.](http: imgur.com WiIVnYm) And it occurred to me that even though I want an EV and especially a Tesla. I don t know if I could drive something that looked like that... Would anyone else not get a 3 or future model due to its looks? (but comes with all the perks?)

Didn t Elon once say that he doesn t understand why car companies make ugly cars since the cost of shaping body panels with a stamping press is the same regardless of their shape?

If it had close to the performance numbers on the P85D then I wouldn t be adverse to an ugly one. I want a fun mobile. That said please don t make it ugly I want a nice looking car.

38sgo2

Were falcon doors a mistake? Elon has admitted they added a lot of delay to the creation and engineering of the vehicle. They ve already sold out orders for a long time so I m under the impression they could have sold similar numbers if they put regular doors on. It s not like all those people put in model x preorders purely for the doors. Plus that s just the current state. It could still turn out even worse if they cause problems when the car actually starts shipping. And let s not forget that the door thing is solving a problem that doesn t really exist and introduces new limitations like not being able to mount a track on top of the car. Thoughts?

Maybe it caused a delay but wait till you see these in the wild with the doors open in parking lots. I am expecting gaping mouths and dropped grocery bags by people staring at the car. This thing will make Tesla 10x cooler than it already is and awareness of the brand will go through the roof (no pun intended).

Its been wildly debated. It could be anything from that the doors just got the blame for other things (like timing with Gig1 or whatever) and that us earthlings (i.e. not Elon) doesn t understand the marketing value of the doors to that it will be Tesla s biggest mistake since opting for the Lotus Elise glider. Anyway the doors are gonna be there and it s soon gonna be out in the wild.

38sgo2

Were falcon doors a mistake? Elon has admitted they added a lot of delay to the creation and engineering of the vehicle. They ve already sold out orders for a long time so I m under the impression they could have sold similar numbers if they put regular doors on. It s not like all those people put in model x preorders purely for the doors. Plus that s just the current state. It could still turn out even worse if they cause problems when the car actually starts shipping. And let s not forget that the door thing is solving a problem that doesn t really exist and introduces new limitations like not being able to mount a track on top of the car. Thoughts?

Maybe it caused a delay but wait till you see these in the wild with the doors open in parking lots. I am expecting gaping mouths and dropped grocery bags by people staring at the car. This thing will make Tesla 10x cooler than it already is and awareness of the brand will go through the roof (no pun intended).

&gt Elon has admitted they added a lot of delay to the creation and engineering of the vehicle. Has he really? He got asked several times whether the delay for the X was the doors and many times he has answered that yes there were engineering problems that had to be tackled on them they werent the root cause for the delays. Seems to me it is a lot of smaller things that added up. For example when X was announced and shown it didnt have the super fancy second row seats it will have now and neither did it have autopilot. And that is just things we know for sure.

395csn

Official Thread - 2015 Tesla Annual Shareholder Meeting [2:00pm PT - 5:00pm ET - 9:00pm UTC] Today is Tesla s Annual Shareholder Meeting. Please keep all posts related to the event in this thread until at least tomorrow. The meeting will be held at the Computer History Museum 1401 North Shoreline Boulevard Mountain View California 94043 at 2:00pm PT - 5:00pm ET - 9:00pm UTC The meeting will also be webcast live to the public via the Internet at www.teslamotors.com 2015shareholdermeeting Generally these meetings start with the formalities and the votes which pretty much always go as suggested by the board so no surprise here. After that Musk goes through a quick powerpoint about the current state of the company. Then a Q&amp A that s when the fun starts. The questions from the shareholders are often way more interesting than those from analysts during the conference calls and the shareholders are often Model S owners so the questions are often about upcoming features which is always fun. _________ **The Event** * **T + 17 minutes:** Shareholder proposals over. Musk is on stage. * **T + 6 minutes:** It s started. Sorry trouble with my internet I m back. But I wont be updating too much. The link to watch live: www.teslamotors.com 2015shareholdermeeting * **T - 5 hours:** TSLA is trading sideways ahead of the meeting but it is at a YTD high. * **T - 10 hours:** Thread is live.

Question 12: Battery swap. Almost all CA owners have the invitation. Low take rate. Initial 200 invitations only 4-5 people did it. Only did it once. Not popular super chargers are good enough. Not expanding unless something changes. Supercharging is free for life. Some people are abusing it for local charging. Going to be sending them a note.

Question 3 I didn t quite catch. Something about combining powerwall and powerpack in an emergency.

395csn

Official Thread - 2015 Tesla Annual Shareholder Meeting [2:00pm PT - 5:00pm ET - 9:00pm UTC] Today is Tesla s Annual Shareholder Meeting. Please keep all posts related to the event in this thread until at least tomorrow. The meeting will be held at the Computer History Museum 1401 North Shoreline Boulevard Mountain View California 94043 at 2:00pm PT - 5:00pm ET - 9:00pm UTC The meeting will also be webcast live to the public via the Internet at www.teslamotors.com 2015shareholdermeeting Generally these meetings start with the formalities and the votes which pretty much always go as suggested by the board so no surprise here. After that Musk goes through a quick powerpoint about the current state of the company. Then a Q&amp A that s when the fun starts. The questions from the shareholders are often way more interesting than those from analysts during the conference calls and the shareholders are often Model S owners so the questions are often about upcoming features which is always fun. _________ **The Event** * **T + 17 minutes:** Shareholder proposals over. Musk is on stage. * **T + 6 minutes:** It s started. Sorry trouble with my internet I m back. But I wont be updating too much. The link to watch live: www.teslamotors.com 2015shareholdermeeting * **T - 5 hours:** TSLA is trading sideways ahead of the meeting but it is at a YTD high. * **T - 10 hours:** Thread is live.

Question 12: Battery swap. Almost all CA owners have the invitation. Low take rate. Initial 200 invitations only 4-5 people did it. Only did it once. Not popular super chargers are good enough. Not expanding unless something changes. Supercharging is free for life. Some people are abusing it for local charging. Going to be sending them a note.

Would appreciate a upload to YouTube later. I can t watch in mobile I give up.

395csn

Official Thread - 2015 Tesla Annual Shareholder Meeting [2:00pm PT - 5:00pm ET - 9:00pm UTC] Today is Tesla s Annual Shareholder Meeting. Please keep all posts related to the event in this thread until at least tomorrow. The meeting will be held at the Computer History Museum 1401 North Shoreline Boulevard Mountain View California 94043 at 2:00pm PT - 5:00pm ET - 9:00pm UTC The meeting will also be webcast live to the public via the Internet at www.teslamotors.com 2015shareholdermeeting Generally these meetings start with the formalities and the votes which pretty much always go as suggested by the board so no surprise here. After that Musk goes through a quick powerpoint about the current state of the company. Then a Q&amp A that s when the fun starts. The questions from the shareholders are often way more interesting than those from analysts during the conference calls and the shareholders are often Model S owners so the questions are often about upcoming features which is always fun. _________ **The Event** * **T + 17 minutes:** Shareholder proposals over. Musk is on stage. * **T + 6 minutes:** It s started. Sorry trouble with my internet I m back. But I wont be updating too much. The link to watch live: www.teslamotors.com 2015shareholdermeeting * **T - 5 hours:** TSLA is trading sideways ahead of the meeting but it is at a YTD high. * **T - 10 hours:** Thread is live.

Question 12: Battery swap. Almost all CA owners have the invitation. Low take rate. Initial 200 invitations only 4-5 people did it. Only did it once. Not popular super chargers are good enough. Not expanding unless something changes. Supercharging is free for life. Some people are abusing it for local charging. Going to be sending them a note.

Fair play to the young guy who s somehow ordered a car?!

39t0o7

Is it possible to own a Tesla without owning your own home? .

I live in an apartment and have a Tesla. At first I had no way to charge at home. I made do with (1) parking garage near work that had 4 hours of free charging per day (note: there wasn t always a spot available plenty of Teslas Leafs and Volts taking up the spots) and (2) visiting the nearest supercharger on weekends to top to full. It was rough I had to constantly plan ahead about when I *needed* to make sure I got a parking spot with a charger to get to work and so on. I spoke with my apartment complex before getting the car they had have plans to install a general charging station but they ve been fairly slow about it. But they were kind enough to install a standard electric outlet near my parking spot. Between the trickle charge from that and the other options I never worry about charge now. To anyone in a similar situation considering a Tesla: I d strongly recommend talking with your apartment complex. They (probably) want to keep you leasing with them and installing a basic outlet is usually cheap (assuming they can run the power from somewhere nearby).

Depends on your driving habits and local charging amenities but here are a few options that may apply: * EV chargers in a garage or parking lot you regularly park at? * Any superchargers along your commute? * Do you have offstreet parking? If so an extension cord is sufficient if you drive &lt 45 miles day. * Can you convince your employer to install an EV charger? Tesla will even subsidize if it s publicly accessible. * Check Plugshare in your area. Someone nearby may be willing to cut a deal with you to let you use their charger regularly.

39t0o7

Is it possible to own a Tesla without owning your own home? .

I live in an apartment and have a Tesla. At first I had no way to charge at home. I made do with (1) parking garage near work that had 4 hours of free charging per day (note: there wasn t always a spot available plenty of Teslas Leafs and Volts taking up the spots) and (2) visiting the nearest supercharger on weekends to top to full. It was rough I had to constantly plan ahead about when I *needed* to make sure I got a parking spot with a charger to get to work and so on. I spoke with my apartment complex before getting the car they had have plans to install a general charging station but they ve been fairly slow about it. But they were kind enough to install a standard electric outlet near my parking spot. Between the trickle charge from that and the other options I never worry about charge now. To anyone in a similar situation considering a Tesla: I d strongly recommend talking with your apartment complex. They (probably) want to keep you leasing with them and installing a basic outlet is usually cheap (assuming they can run the power from somewhere nearby).

I m flabbergasted at the fact that the house I rent has a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed. Now if I could just trade up to a Tesla... Any day now...

39t0o7

Is it possible to own a Tesla without owning your own home? .

I live in an apartment and have a Tesla. At first I had no way to charge at home. I made do with (1) parking garage near work that had 4 hours of free charging per day (note: there wasn t always a spot available plenty of Teslas Leafs and Volts taking up the spots) and (2) visiting the nearest supercharger on weekends to top to full. It was rough I had to constantly plan ahead about when I *needed* to make sure I got a parking spot with a charger to get to work and so on. I spoke with my apartment complex before getting the car they had have plans to install a general charging station but they ve been fairly slow about it. But they were kind enough to install a standard electric outlet near my parking spot. Between the trickle charge from that and the other options I never worry about charge now. To anyone in a similar situation considering a Tesla: I d strongly recommend talking with your apartment complex. They (probably) want to keep you leasing with them and installing a basic outlet is usually cheap (assuming they can run the power from somewhere nearby).

There was a resident in my last apartment. I think they installed the proper outlet in the parking garage. I saw it plugged in there a few times per week with just an extension cord. Never seemed like an issue

3c88uq

For those who can t afford the luxury of a Tesla what s the next best thing in EVs? In the UK if it matters. Along with that do other EVs have a special charger you can fit? And are they outdoors-safe? EDIT: perhaps I should rephrase. For someone who wants an EV but doesn t need a Tesla

The next best thing is to save up for a few years and buy Tesla Model 3 :)

Sadly can t answer your other questions but there are some good and relatively cheap electric cars. The ones I know of the top of my head are the Nissan Leaf Renault Zoé and BMW i3. If you want a really cheap electric car though and don t drive long distances or drive with multiple people you should take a look at the Renault Twizy.

3dm37e

[Official Discussion Thread] - Tesla Announcement - [11AM PDT] Tesla is holding a press conference by phone Friday July 17 2015 11:00 am Pacific Daylight Time (San Francisco. GMT-O7:OO https: i.imgur.com LuI8T2H.jpg **Please keep all posts related to the announcement in this thread in order not to crowd the sub with similar posts.** Don t forget you can change your comment filter to sorted by new to follow new posts instead of the top ones. ________________________ **Official Tesla Blog about all the new options**: http: www.teslamotors.com blog three-dog-day **Quick Summary** Tesla is introducing a $3 000 option on the 85kWh version of the Model S to bring the battery pack to 90 kWh. They are also introducing the Ludicrous Mode update which enable a 2.8 sec 0 to 60 on the P85D. $10 000 for new vehicles and $5 000 as a retrofit update for current owners. They added a new base model with 70 kWh battery pack RWD (with one motor). It gets 230 miles EPA. If you were familiar with Tesla trims they were - 70D 85 85D P85D and now they are - 70 70D 85 85D 90 90D P85D P90D. The company expects to increase battery capacity by 5 to 10% every 1 or 2 years. Roadster update 3.0 is get validation at the moment. It should be available for sales late next month. V 7.0 of the software should go live to Beta testers in a few weeks with a lot of autopilot features. _____________________ **Update: 11:28 PDT** comment from u texifornia New options already on the design studio! [$10K for Ludicrous Mode](http: imgur.com RP7b9DP) [3K For Range Upgrade](http: i.imgur.com l9a5neR.png) https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3dm37e official_discussion_thread_tesla_announcement ct6u538 **Update: 11:15 PDT** via [electreck](http: electrek.co 2015 07 17 tesla-july-17th-announcement-liveblog ): 11:12: Musk starting – 3 announcements 1- Upgrade battery pack 90kWh $3000 2- They are goign to offer a 70kWh RWD car for $70K 3- Upgrade high performance Ludicrous mode. 2.8 Secons Update: - The call will be about the Model S according to this tweet from Elon: [Model S product call at 11 today. Rocket discussion at noon on Monday](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 622065785268088834).

Which one of his companies is making rockets again?

I m gonna go with that they open the design studio for X on Monday and that it will include 100kWh battery option and a tow hitch both which will be available for the S as well. He wants a press conference to be able to influence how the talk goes about increased battery capacity that along with that technology improves it will be implemented in to the cars and avoid the should I wait for next gen hw issue that tends to come with technology purchases. I think a tweet leaves too much press fanbased speculation. I hope hope hope it s not another X delay.

3dm37e

[Official Discussion Thread] - Tesla Announcement - [11AM PDT] Tesla is holding a press conference by phone Friday July 17 2015 11:00 am Pacific Daylight Time (San Francisco. GMT-O7:OO https: i.imgur.com LuI8T2H.jpg **Please keep all posts related to the announcement in this thread in order not to crowd the sub with similar posts.** Don t forget you can change your comment filter to sorted by new to follow new posts instead of the top ones. ________________________ **Official Tesla Blog about all the new options**: http: www.teslamotors.com blog three-dog-day **Quick Summary** Tesla is introducing a $3 000 option on the 85kWh version of the Model S to bring the battery pack to 90 kWh. They are also introducing the Ludicrous Mode update which enable a 2.8 sec 0 to 60 on the P85D. $10 000 for new vehicles and $5 000 as a retrofit update for current owners. They added a new base model with 70 kWh battery pack RWD (with one motor). It gets 230 miles EPA. If you were familiar with Tesla trims they were - 70D 85 85D P85D and now they are - 70 70D 85 85D 90 90D P85D P90D. The company expects to increase battery capacity by 5 to 10% every 1 or 2 years. Roadster update 3.0 is get validation at the moment. It should be available for sales late next month. V 7.0 of the software should go live to Beta testers in a few weeks with a lot of autopilot features. _____________________ **Update: 11:28 PDT** comment from u texifornia New options already on the design studio! [$10K for Ludicrous Mode](http: imgur.com RP7b9DP) [3K For Range Upgrade](http: i.imgur.com l9a5neR.png) https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3dm37e official_discussion_thread_tesla_announcement ct6u538 **Update: 11:15 PDT** via [electreck](http: electrek.co 2015 07 17 tesla-july-17th-announcement-liveblog ): 11:12: Musk starting – 3 announcements 1- Upgrade battery pack 90kWh $3000 2- They are goign to offer a 70kWh RWD car for $70K 3- Upgrade high performance Ludicrous mode. 2.8 Secons Update: - The call will be about the Model S according to this tweet from Elon: [Model S product call at 11 today. Rocket discussion at noon on Monday](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 622065785268088834).

Which one of his companies is making rockets again?

Where is the call being held? I can t find a link anywhere

3dm37e

[Official Discussion Thread] - Tesla Announcement - [11AM PDT] Tesla is holding a press conference by phone Friday July 17 2015 11:00 am Pacific Daylight Time (San Francisco. GMT-O7:OO https: i.imgur.com LuI8T2H.jpg **Please keep all posts related to the announcement in this thread in order not to crowd the sub with similar posts.** Don t forget you can change your comment filter to sorted by new to follow new posts instead of the top ones. ________________________ **Official Tesla Blog about all the new options**: http: www.teslamotors.com blog three-dog-day **Quick Summary** Tesla is introducing a $3 000 option on the 85kWh version of the Model S to bring the battery pack to 90 kWh. They are also introducing the Ludicrous Mode update which enable a 2.8 sec 0 to 60 on the P85D. $10 000 for new vehicles and $5 000 as a retrofit update for current owners. They added a new base model with 70 kWh battery pack RWD (with one motor). It gets 230 miles EPA. If you were familiar with Tesla trims they were - 70D 85 85D P85D and now they are - 70 70D 85 85D 90 90D P85D P90D. The company expects to increase battery capacity by 5 to 10% every 1 or 2 years. Roadster update 3.0 is get validation at the moment. It should be available for sales late next month. V 7.0 of the software should go live to Beta testers in a few weeks with a lot of autopilot features. _____________________ **Update: 11:28 PDT** comment from u texifornia New options already on the design studio! [$10K for Ludicrous Mode](http: imgur.com RP7b9DP) [3K For Range Upgrade](http: i.imgur.com l9a5neR.png) https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3dm37e official_discussion_thread_tesla_announcement ct6u538 **Update: 11:15 PDT** via [electreck](http: electrek.co 2015 07 17 tesla-july-17th-announcement-liveblog ): 11:12: Musk starting – 3 announcements 1- Upgrade battery pack 90kWh $3000 2- They are goign to offer a 70kWh RWD car for $70K 3- Upgrade high performance Ludicrous mode. 2.8 Secons Update: - The call will be about the Model S according to this tweet from Elon: [Model S product call at 11 today. Rocket discussion at noon on Monday](https: twitter.com elonmusk status 622065785268088834).

Which one of his companies is making rockets again?

Ludicrous mode- for existing P85D or upgraded to 90 kwh?

3do1q7

P85D owners would you say the extra $20k was worth it? Obviously I d like to own one myself but the P85D is a whole $20 000 more than the 85D and I really can t justify that price for what you re getting red brake calipers and and a 1.1 second faster 0-60 time. I think that price would be (somewhat) reasonable if things like autopilot and premium interior came standard but you still have to pay to add those things on further increasing the price.

I just asked a guy about 30 minutes ago who s got a P85D if he was going to get a P90D. He hadn t heard the results of the press release yet. (He had a P85+ and upgraded to P85D when it came out.) He said honestly I d be happy with a regular 85D without the air suspension. I ve used insane mode all of like twice. And then he started reading about the P90D and said I m going to have to get that. We ll see what happens.

Now you have to repost this thread and ask if the P90D is worth it ...and the answer is yes :)

3e0fa9

Saleen is trying to get an injunction against me over comments I made on this subreddit (and other forums) Edit - UPDATE: I made a[ new post](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e3qnp update_on_the_situation_with_saleen_and_the ) with a quick update and created a crowdfunding legal fund. Edit 2 - Another quick update: I m in contact with u Ballaban of Jalopnik and he sent me this article about Saleen which kind of show how things are at Saleen: http: jalopnik.com this-tuned-mustang-made-me-realize-the-value-of-journa-1693235525 _____________________________________ **tl dr**: This is a long read but in short Saleen is on the verge of bankruptcy and they are blaming the fall of their stock price on comments I made on Reddit and other websites. _____________________________________ I never thought I d be lucky enough to one day have my reddit comments delivered at my house in a [nice binder](https: i.imgur.com cQjpXLe.jpg) but that s what happened today! I m on vacation so I was mowing my lawn this afternoon when a nice bailiff entered my driveway to give me a 1-1 2 [thick binder](https: i.imgur.com qIgk5qk.png) which happens to be something called: MOTION TO INSTITUTE PROCEEDINGS FOR INTERLOCUTORY AND PERMANENT INJUNCTION NOTICE OF PRESENTATION NOTICE TO DEFENDANTS AFFIDAVIT OF STEVE SALEEN AFFIDAVIT OF DANIEL WEBSTER AND EXHIBITS P-1 to P-19 In short they claim that my posting on various websites and blogs were defamatory and impacted negatively Steve Saleen s reputation AND impacted the trading volume and price of Saleen Automotive s stock . For those of you who don t know Saleen is a company that tunes cars meaning they buy stock cars or cars owners give them their cars and they turn them into Saleen cars with their body kits and sometimes performance upgrades. We know them here for their Saleen Tesla now known as the GTX which is a modified Tesla Model S. **Really brief history of Saleen**: Saleen Inc started in the 1980 s and they got very popular through their famous Saleen Mustang but the company went bankrupt in 2008. Steve Saleen the founder of the company left a few months before the bankruptcy to be the CEO of ZX Auto (part of Chamco) a company setup to import Chinese trucks and sell them through US dealership. That barely lasted a year and the company went bankrupt leaving in the dark 37 dealerships who each paid [franchise fees of up to $300 000](http: www.autonews.com article 20080630 GLOBAL03 306309998 chinese-automaker-cuts-ties-to-chamco). Steve Saleen then went back to car tuning but he lost his Saleen brand name in the first bankruptcy so he started his new tuning company under the name SMS Supercars . A few years later (2012) he won back his brand name and started using it again for his tuning business. A year later (2013) we learn through SEC filings that Saleen until then a private company was again in financial difficulties with millions in accumulated deficit. So they go public on the OTC market through a reverse-merger with a publicly traded shell company owned by David Weiner. This Mr. Weiner is not new to bringing private companies public through reverse-mergers. Here is a [Bloomberg article](http: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2014-06-18 legal-pot-sets-off-penny-stock-frenzy) on how he does business (mainly in the legal marijuana industry). It s a long read but it s interesting if you want to know how shady rich people make easy money. Now Saleen is public in pennyland. They start issuing a bunch of PR promising great things including a Saleen Tesla . They burned through the cash they got from the reverse-merger pretty quick and last summer had to issue toxic convertible notes to shady lending companies. *This is important for the case*: Through all that mess Saleen s stock lost a lot of value but even more so during the last few months because of the convertible notes maturing and diluting the stock.The stock was still at $0.01 in April before the note started converting and now it is at only $0.0006. Here is the stock s performance in the past 2 years: https: i.imgur.com j3jaxUg.png Now Saleen filed their [10K](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com DisplayFiling.aspx?TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002943&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) last week the company is down to their last $21 000 as of July 8th and they said they don t have enough money to continue their operations as of the time of the filling and that they are seeking more financing. Also [their bank is suing them](http: pdfsr.com pdf slnncitizen) because they have been defaulting on a loan for years and refuse to turnover collateral. **Now what s my involvement in this mess?** I m a small time Tesla investor and I researched Saleen as an investment opportunity when they announced they were doing the Saleen Tesla early last year. After pretty standard due diligence it became clear to me that it was a bad investment (that was early last year when the stock was at $0.30 now at $0.0006). I posted my general thoughts and findings on iHub a website with message boards mainly for the OTC market. I was met with a barrage of critics and attacks mostly empty arguments. I started responding to these critics which were clearly meant to pump the stock and started digging more into the filings the history of the company and more especially on the claims they were making about Tesla. I started posting on here (Reddit) because posts about Saleen came up a few times. And also on blogs. Here s the reddit thread they included as an exhibit (P-9) in the motion: [Is Saleen lying in order to sell its version of the Tesla Model S?](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2egltj is_saleen_lying_in_order_to_sell_its_version_of ) They say that in this thread I urged potential buyers of the Saleen Tesla vehicles to reconsider their decision in a disparaging comment which started with the following statement: Saleen is running something closely resembling a Ponzi scheme pump&amp dump . And you know what? I don t know if this can have an impact on the case but I never said that in that particular thread. Meaning the whole exhibit P-9 is a printout of the thread and it missing that particular quote. I did say that in another [thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3bk778 automobile_mag_article_saleen_gtx_vs_p85d ) though but almost a year apart and I stand by it. Like I explained in the comment Saleen is taking deposits from customers but they don t use the money to build cars or at least only a fraction of the money therefore they always depends on more people giving deposits but if they all come back wanting their cars Saleen doesn t have the money to build them - not unlike a ponzi scheme. They mention this reddit thread and a few [blogs](http: blacksheepplanet.com index.php 2015 05 14 saleen-automotive-lost-84-of-its-value-year-to-date ) I wrote but in each case all my statements are backed by valid sources. One of the most outrageous claims they make in the motion is that my posting on [iHub](http: investorshub.advfn.com Saleen-Automotive-Inc-SLNN-26492 ) increased in April this year then the volume on Saleen s stock increased and the price crumbled. They are implying that my increased posting on the stock incited people to sell and therefore the volume increased and the price decreased. But this is complete bullshit. Like I said earlier Saleen s convertible notes started maturing in April which brought a ton of new shares on the market at a 38 to 40% discount so of course the price would fall. Blaming that on me is ridiculous. And yes although I don t have the statistics I assume my posting increased during that period but that s because the whole board became flooded by pumpers presumably from the noteholders trying to unload their newly converted shares. What I do on this board is respond to the pumpers with facts so of course more pumpers = more posts to respond to. **Conclusion** I m letting you know guys in case any of you have any experience with these kind of things and could give any advice. I m a bit lost here. It s not clear if they are asking for money for damages but they say that they are evaluating the damages they claim my comments cause them. I m told hiring a lawyer would be around $200-$300 an hour that s not in my budget and my fear is that if I just comply with the injunction (not that I think it is right) they will then come back asking for money for damages. As anyone heard of someone defending themselves for these sort of complaints? I mean I confident I could defend myself against each one of their claims but I m lost in the whole legal process. I m in Quebec Canada BTW I assume jurisdictions can change the legal process... If you read all the way down here you are a champion! Thanks. Fred. edit: grammar corrections thanks to u Quality_Bullshit

Sir forgive my lack of knowledge on properly using Reddit but up to this point I have been mostly a reader and bystander. I am located in Montreal Canada and would love to assist you in any way possible. I have multiple outlets that could be of interest to helping your cause and believe I have the legal resources to assist you in this affair. If you are so inclined and interested please do not hesitate to let me know and it would be my pleasure to assist. That being said I derive a great pleasure from sticking it to moronic corporations who obviously are ill counselled and misadvised. Thank you.

What does the face page say? What court did they file that in?

3e0fa9

Saleen is trying to get an injunction against me over comments I made on this subreddit (and other forums) Edit - UPDATE: I made a[ new post](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e3qnp update_on_the_situation_with_saleen_and_the ) with a quick update and created a crowdfunding legal fund. Edit 2 - Another quick update: I m in contact with u Ballaban of Jalopnik and he sent me this article about Saleen which kind of show how things are at Saleen: http: jalopnik.com this-tuned-mustang-made-me-realize-the-value-of-journa-1693235525 _____________________________________ **tl dr**: This is a long read but in short Saleen is on the verge of bankruptcy and they are blaming the fall of their stock price on comments I made on Reddit and other websites. _____________________________________ I never thought I d be lucky enough to one day have my reddit comments delivered at my house in a [nice binder](https: i.imgur.com cQjpXLe.jpg) but that s what happened today! I m on vacation so I was mowing my lawn this afternoon when a nice bailiff entered my driveway to give me a 1-1 2 [thick binder](https: i.imgur.com qIgk5qk.png) which happens to be something called: MOTION TO INSTITUTE PROCEEDINGS FOR INTERLOCUTORY AND PERMANENT INJUNCTION NOTICE OF PRESENTATION NOTICE TO DEFENDANTS AFFIDAVIT OF STEVE SALEEN AFFIDAVIT OF DANIEL WEBSTER AND EXHIBITS P-1 to P-19 In short they claim that my posting on various websites and blogs were defamatory and impacted negatively Steve Saleen s reputation AND impacted the trading volume and price of Saleen Automotive s stock . For those of you who don t know Saleen is a company that tunes cars meaning they buy stock cars or cars owners give them their cars and they turn them into Saleen cars with their body kits and sometimes performance upgrades. We know them here for their Saleen Tesla now known as the GTX which is a modified Tesla Model S. **Really brief history of Saleen**: Saleen Inc started in the 1980 s and they got very popular through their famous Saleen Mustang but the company went bankrupt in 2008. Steve Saleen the founder of the company left a few months before the bankruptcy to be the CEO of ZX Auto (part of Chamco) a company setup to import Chinese trucks and sell them through US dealership. That barely lasted a year and the company went bankrupt leaving in the dark 37 dealerships who each paid [franchise fees of up to $300 000](http: www.autonews.com article 20080630 GLOBAL03 306309998 chinese-automaker-cuts-ties-to-chamco). Steve Saleen then went back to car tuning but he lost his Saleen brand name in the first bankruptcy so he started his new tuning company under the name SMS Supercars . A few years later (2012) he won back his brand name and started using it again for his tuning business. A year later (2013) we learn through SEC filings that Saleen until then a private company was again in financial difficulties with millions in accumulated deficit. So they go public on the OTC market through a reverse-merger with a publicly traded shell company owned by David Weiner. This Mr. Weiner is not new to bringing private companies public through reverse-mergers. Here is a [Bloomberg article](http: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2014-06-18 legal-pot-sets-off-penny-stock-frenzy) on how he does business (mainly in the legal marijuana industry). It s a long read but it s interesting if you want to know how shady rich people make easy money. Now Saleen is public in pennyland. They start issuing a bunch of PR promising great things including a Saleen Tesla . They burned through the cash they got from the reverse-merger pretty quick and last summer had to issue toxic convertible notes to shady lending companies. *This is important for the case*: Through all that mess Saleen s stock lost a lot of value but even more so during the last few months because of the convertible notes maturing and diluting the stock.The stock was still at $0.01 in April before the note started converting and now it is at only $0.0006. Here is the stock s performance in the past 2 years: https: i.imgur.com j3jaxUg.png Now Saleen filed their [10K](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com DisplayFiling.aspx?TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002943&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) last week the company is down to their last $21 000 as of July 8th and they said they don t have enough money to continue their operations as of the time of the filling and that they are seeking more financing. Also [their bank is suing them](http: pdfsr.com pdf slnncitizen) because they have been defaulting on a loan for years and refuse to turnover collateral. **Now what s my involvement in this mess?** I m a small time Tesla investor and I researched Saleen as an investment opportunity when they announced they were doing the Saleen Tesla early last year. After pretty standard due diligence it became clear to me that it was a bad investment (that was early last year when the stock was at $0.30 now at $0.0006). I posted my general thoughts and findings on iHub a website with message boards mainly for the OTC market. I was met with a barrage of critics and attacks mostly empty arguments. I started responding to these critics which were clearly meant to pump the stock and started digging more into the filings the history of the company and more especially on the claims they were making about Tesla. I started posting on here (Reddit) because posts about Saleen came up a few times. And also on blogs. Here s the reddit thread they included as an exhibit (P-9) in the motion: [Is Saleen lying in order to sell its version of the Tesla Model S?](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2egltj is_saleen_lying_in_order_to_sell_its_version_of ) They say that in this thread I urged potential buyers of the Saleen Tesla vehicles to reconsider their decision in a disparaging comment which started with the following statement: Saleen is running something closely resembling a Ponzi scheme pump&amp dump . And you know what? I don t know if this can have an impact on the case but I never said that in that particular thread. Meaning the whole exhibit P-9 is a printout of the thread and it missing that particular quote. I did say that in another [thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3bk778 automobile_mag_article_saleen_gtx_vs_p85d ) though but almost a year apart and I stand by it. Like I explained in the comment Saleen is taking deposits from customers but they don t use the money to build cars or at least only a fraction of the money therefore they always depends on more people giving deposits but if they all come back wanting their cars Saleen doesn t have the money to build them - not unlike a ponzi scheme. They mention this reddit thread and a few [blogs](http: blacksheepplanet.com index.php 2015 05 14 saleen-automotive-lost-84-of-its-value-year-to-date ) I wrote but in each case all my statements are backed by valid sources. One of the most outrageous claims they make in the motion is that my posting on [iHub](http: investorshub.advfn.com Saleen-Automotive-Inc-SLNN-26492 ) increased in April this year then the volume on Saleen s stock increased and the price crumbled. They are implying that my increased posting on the stock incited people to sell and therefore the volume increased and the price decreased. But this is complete bullshit. Like I said earlier Saleen s convertible notes started maturing in April which brought a ton of new shares on the market at a 38 to 40% discount so of course the price would fall. Blaming that on me is ridiculous. And yes although I don t have the statistics I assume my posting increased during that period but that s because the whole board became flooded by pumpers presumably from the noteholders trying to unload their newly converted shares. What I do on this board is respond to the pumpers with facts so of course more pumpers = more posts to respond to. **Conclusion** I m letting you know guys in case any of you have any experience with these kind of things and could give any advice. I m a bit lost here. It s not clear if they are asking for money for damages but they say that they are evaluating the damages they claim my comments cause them. I m told hiring a lawyer would be around $200-$300 an hour that s not in my budget and my fear is that if I just comply with the injunction (not that I think it is right) they will then come back asking for money for damages. As anyone heard of someone defending themselves for these sort of complaints? I mean I confident I could defend myself against each one of their claims but I m lost in the whole legal process. I m in Quebec Canada BTW I assume jurisdictions can change the legal process... If you read all the way down here you are a champion! Thanks. Fred. edit: grammar corrections thanks to u Quality_Bullshit

Sir forgive my lack of knowledge on properly using Reddit but up to this point I have been mostly a reader and bystander. I am located in Montreal Canada and would love to assist you in any way possible. I have multiple outlets that could be of interest to helping your cause and believe I have the legal resources to assist you in this affair. If you are so inclined and interested please do not hesitate to let me know and it would be my pleasure to assist. That being said I derive a great pleasure from sticking it to moronic corporations who obviously are ill counselled and misadvised. Thank you.

Read it all. Fuck saleen. Good luck.

3e0fa9

Saleen is trying to get an injunction against me over comments I made on this subreddit (and other forums) Edit - UPDATE: I made a[ new post](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e3qnp update_on_the_situation_with_saleen_and_the ) with a quick update and created a crowdfunding legal fund. Edit 2 - Another quick update: I m in contact with u Ballaban of Jalopnik and he sent me this article about Saleen which kind of show how things are at Saleen: http: jalopnik.com this-tuned-mustang-made-me-realize-the-value-of-journa-1693235525 _____________________________________ **tl dr**: This is a long read but in short Saleen is on the verge of bankruptcy and they are blaming the fall of their stock price on comments I made on Reddit and other websites. _____________________________________ I never thought I d be lucky enough to one day have my reddit comments delivered at my house in a [nice binder](https: i.imgur.com cQjpXLe.jpg) but that s what happened today! I m on vacation so I was mowing my lawn this afternoon when a nice bailiff entered my driveway to give me a 1-1 2 [thick binder](https: i.imgur.com qIgk5qk.png) which happens to be something called: MOTION TO INSTITUTE PROCEEDINGS FOR INTERLOCUTORY AND PERMANENT INJUNCTION NOTICE OF PRESENTATION NOTICE TO DEFENDANTS AFFIDAVIT OF STEVE SALEEN AFFIDAVIT OF DANIEL WEBSTER AND EXHIBITS P-1 to P-19 In short they claim that my posting on various websites and blogs were defamatory and impacted negatively Steve Saleen s reputation AND impacted the trading volume and price of Saleen Automotive s stock . For those of you who don t know Saleen is a company that tunes cars meaning they buy stock cars or cars owners give them their cars and they turn them into Saleen cars with their body kits and sometimes performance upgrades. We know them here for their Saleen Tesla now known as the GTX which is a modified Tesla Model S. **Really brief history of Saleen**: Saleen Inc started in the 1980 s and they got very popular through their famous Saleen Mustang but the company went bankrupt in 2008. Steve Saleen the founder of the company left a few months before the bankruptcy to be the CEO of ZX Auto (part of Chamco) a company setup to import Chinese trucks and sell them through US dealership. That barely lasted a year and the company went bankrupt leaving in the dark 37 dealerships who each paid [franchise fees of up to $300 000](http: www.autonews.com article 20080630 GLOBAL03 306309998 chinese-automaker-cuts-ties-to-chamco). Steve Saleen then went back to car tuning but he lost his Saleen brand name in the first bankruptcy so he started his new tuning company under the name SMS Supercars . A few years later (2012) he won back his brand name and started using it again for his tuning business. A year later (2013) we learn through SEC filings that Saleen until then a private company was again in financial difficulties with millions in accumulated deficit. So they go public on the OTC market through a reverse-merger with a publicly traded shell company owned by David Weiner. This Mr. Weiner is not new to bringing private companies public through reverse-mergers. Here is a [Bloomberg article](http: www.bloomberg.com news articles 2014-06-18 legal-pot-sets-off-penny-stock-frenzy) on how he does business (mainly in the legal marijuana industry). It s a long read but it s interesting if you want to know how shady rich people make easy money. Now Saleen is public in pennyland. They start issuing a bunch of PR promising great things including a Saleen Tesla . They burned through the cash they got from the reverse-merger pretty quick and last summer had to issue toxic convertible notes to shady lending companies. *This is important for the case*: Through all that mess Saleen s stock lost a lot of value but even more so during the last few months because of the convertible notes maturing and diluting the stock.The stock was still at $0.01 in April before the note started converting and now it is at only $0.0006. Here is the stock s performance in the past 2 years: https: i.imgur.com j3jaxUg.png Now Saleen filed their [10K](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com DisplayFiling.aspx?TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002943&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) last week the company is down to their last $21 000 as of July 8th and they said they don t have enough money to continue their operations as of the time of the filling and that they are seeking more financing. Also [their bank is suing them](http: pdfsr.com pdf slnncitizen) because they have been defaulting on a loan for years and refuse to turnover collateral. **Now what s my involvement in this mess?** I m a small time Tesla investor and I researched Saleen as an investment opportunity when they announced they were doing the Saleen Tesla early last year. After pretty standard due diligence it became clear to me that it was a bad investment (that was early last year when the stock was at $0.30 now at $0.0006). I posted my general thoughts and findings on iHub a website with message boards mainly for the OTC market. I was met with a barrage of critics and attacks mostly empty arguments. I started responding to these critics which were clearly meant to pump the stock and started digging more into the filings the history of the company and more especially on the claims they were making about Tesla. I started posting on here (Reddit) because posts about Saleen came up a few times. And also on blogs. Here s the reddit thread they included as an exhibit (P-9) in the motion: [Is Saleen lying in order to sell its version of the Tesla Model S?](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2egltj is_saleen_lying_in_order_to_sell_its_version_of ) They say that in this thread I urged potential buyers of the Saleen Tesla vehicles to reconsider their decision in a disparaging comment which started with the following statement: Saleen is running something closely resembling a Ponzi scheme pump&amp dump . And you know what? I don t know if this can have an impact on the case but I never said that in that particular thread. Meaning the whole exhibit P-9 is a printout of the thread and it missing that particular quote. I did say that in another [thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3bk778 automobile_mag_article_saleen_gtx_vs_p85d ) though but almost a year apart and I stand by it. Like I explained in the comment Saleen is taking deposits from customers but they don t use the money to build cars or at least only a fraction of the money therefore they always depends on more people giving deposits but if they all come back wanting their cars Saleen doesn t have the money to build them - not unlike a ponzi scheme. They mention this reddit thread and a few [blogs](http: blacksheepplanet.com index.php 2015 05 14 saleen-automotive-lost-84-of-its-value-year-to-date ) I wrote but in each case all my statements are backed by valid sources. One of the most outrageous claims they make in the motion is that my posting on [iHub](http: investorshub.advfn.com Saleen-Automotive-Inc-SLNN-26492 ) increased in April this year then the volume on Saleen s stock increased and the price crumbled. They are implying that my increased posting on the stock incited people to sell and therefore the volume increased and the price decreased. But this is complete bullshit. Like I said earlier Saleen s convertible notes started maturing in April which brought a ton of new shares on the market at a 38 to 40% discount so of course the price would fall. Blaming that on me is ridiculous. And yes although I don t have the statistics I assume my posting increased during that period but that s because the whole board became flooded by pumpers presumably from the noteholders trying to unload their newly converted shares. What I do on this board is respond to the pumpers with facts so of course more pumpers = more posts to respond to. **Conclusion** I m letting you know guys in case any of you have any experience with these kind of things and could give any advice. I m a bit lost here. It s not clear if they are asking for money for damages but they say that they are evaluating the damages they claim my comments cause them. I m told hiring a lawyer would be around $200-$300 an hour that s not in my budget and my fear is that if I just comply with the injunction (not that I think it is right) they will then come back asking for money for damages. As anyone heard of someone defending themselves for these sort of complaints? I mean I confident I could defend myself against each one of their claims but I m lost in the whole legal process. I m in Quebec Canada BTW I assume jurisdictions can change the legal process... If you read all the way down here you are a champion! Thanks. Fred. edit: grammar corrections thanks to u Quality_Bullshit

Sir forgive my lack of knowledge on properly using Reddit but up to this point I have been mostly a reader and bystander. I am located in Montreal Canada and would love to assist you in any way possible. I have multiple outlets that could be of interest to helping your cause and believe I have the legal resources to assist you in this affair. If you are so inclined and interested please do not hesitate to let me know and it would be my pleasure to assist. That being said I derive a great pleasure from sticking it to moronic corporations who obviously are ill counselled and misadvised. Thank you.

Well it sucks you have to deal with this BS and waste time... Not my area of expertise. Try cross posting to r legaladvice

3e3qnp

UPDATE on the situation with Saleen and the injunction - I m sorry to ask but I need your help This post is in reference to this [thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e0fa9 saleen_is_trying_to_get_an_injunction_against_me ) which is full of advice and support so I want to sincerely thank everyone for your help. These are stressful times for me and I really appreciate your support. The most popular advice was lawyer up which I think is the right thing to do but I discussed the case with a few lawyers and they are all telling me how these are complicated cases and they will need experts and so on. As you can imagine they are asking for a lot of money. Most quotes I got was for a minimum retainer of $10 000 and they say it can go up to $50 000 in legal fees! A few people in the original thread suggested to crowdfund a legal fund I ve never asked the internet for money before and I feel bad to do so but it seems like it might be my only option if I want a chance to get out of this. I don t have this kind of money on hand and would have to sell a majority of my assets to afford it. I m only 23 (24 next week) I don t have a lot to my name. Here s the link to the Indiegogo life campaign. (~~some people talked about Gofundme and I went and tried to create a campaign but apparently they don t accept legal funds - my understanding is that it was only for criminal cases they don t accept and this is a civil case but they put the campaign other review and I don t have that kind of time~~) GoFundMe quickly approved my campaign. I don t know much about these platforms so maybe some of you prefer this one over Indiegogo Life so here it is: GoFundMe campaign. Another issue is time the first preliminary hearing is next Tuesday and I would have the gather the funds by Friday to get a lawyer. I try to manage my expectations because this is a very particular situation but I don t know the internet amazed me before... If we manage to raise the funds and I somehow manage to get the money back after the legal process I will certainly make sure to give the money back in the most efficient way possible. Thank you for hearing me out. Sincerely Fred ________________________ Quick update: We are at $3 000. Wow. I m truly overwhelmed by your support. I appreciate it greatly. Sorry for not being too active on the thread right now. I m currently going through the documents over and over again adding notes see if maybe we can kill this ridiculous thing before it becomes too big. I will sit down this afternoon with a lawyer I talked with yesterday. Some have raised concerns about the urgency and the timeframe. I understand the doubts. Here s the notice saying that the first hearing (I don t know if you can call it that) is Tuesday: https: i.imgur.com fVd7aUI.png?1 The paper only covers my address. You have the information about the location and everything so if you are in the region and want to meet let me know. Thanks again for all your support. I ll try to keep you updated but Iike some of you said the lawyers will probably tell me to shut up. We ll see.

You need to submit this to: * [InsideEVs](http: insideevs.com ) * [Green Car Reports](http: www.greencarreports.com ) * [AutoBlog](http: www.autoblog.com ) ([Green](http: www.autoblog.com green )) * [Edmunds](http: www.edmunds.com ) * [The Car Connection](http: www.thecarconnection.com ) * [Consumerist](http: consumerist.com ) * ~~[Jalopnik](http: jalopnik.com )~~ [ARTICLE POSTED](http: jalopnik.com saleen-is-suing-a-guy-on-reddit-for-calling-them-a-scam-1719508130) and any other major website covering cars heck even ask Tesla Motors. It s better for the campaign and Saleen needs to understand that bullying is not accepted. Maybe we need to go Spartacus on this and we should all post our opinion on social media networks ) Also I would upload a better picture it really helps (and makes it looks more legitimate). Can you use a photo of the binder or your car or does it have to be a personal pic? Whatever it is proper resolution and focus will make a big difference. Good luck and keep us updated please.

Any plans to counter sue?

3e3qnp

UPDATE on the situation with Saleen and the injunction - I m sorry to ask but I need your help This post is in reference to this [thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e0fa9 saleen_is_trying_to_get_an_injunction_against_me ) which is full of advice and support so I want to sincerely thank everyone for your help. These are stressful times for me and I really appreciate your support. The most popular advice was lawyer up which I think is the right thing to do but I discussed the case with a few lawyers and they are all telling me how these are complicated cases and they will need experts and so on. As you can imagine they are asking for a lot of money. Most quotes I got was for a minimum retainer of $10 000 and they say it can go up to $50 000 in legal fees! A few people in the original thread suggested to crowdfund a legal fund I ve never asked the internet for money before and I feel bad to do so but it seems like it might be my only option if I want a chance to get out of this. I don t have this kind of money on hand and would have to sell a majority of my assets to afford it. I m only 23 (24 next week) I don t have a lot to my name. Here s the link to the Indiegogo life campaign. (~~some people talked about Gofundme and I went and tried to create a campaign but apparently they don t accept legal funds - my understanding is that it was only for criminal cases they don t accept and this is a civil case but they put the campaign other review and I don t have that kind of time~~) GoFundMe quickly approved my campaign. I don t know much about these platforms so maybe some of you prefer this one over Indiegogo Life so here it is: GoFundMe campaign. Another issue is time the first preliminary hearing is next Tuesday and I would have the gather the funds by Friday to get a lawyer. I try to manage my expectations because this is a very particular situation but I don t know the internet amazed me before... If we manage to raise the funds and I somehow manage to get the money back after the legal process I will certainly make sure to give the money back in the most efficient way possible. Thank you for hearing me out. Sincerely Fred ________________________ Quick update: We are at $3 000. Wow. I m truly overwhelmed by your support. I appreciate it greatly. Sorry for not being too active on the thread right now. I m currently going through the documents over and over again adding notes see if maybe we can kill this ridiculous thing before it becomes too big. I will sit down this afternoon with a lawyer I talked with yesterday. Some have raised concerns about the urgency and the timeframe. I understand the doubts. Here s the notice saying that the first hearing (I don t know if you can call it that) is Tuesday: https: i.imgur.com fVd7aUI.png?1 The paper only covers my address. You have the information about the location and everything so if you are in the region and want to meet let me know. Thanks again for all your support. I ll try to keep you updated but Iike some of you said the lawyers will probably tell me to shut up. We ll see.

You need to submit this to: * [InsideEVs](http: insideevs.com ) * [Green Car Reports](http: www.greencarreports.com ) * [AutoBlog](http: www.autoblog.com ) ([Green](http: www.autoblog.com green )) * [Edmunds](http: www.edmunds.com ) * [The Car Connection](http: www.thecarconnection.com ) * [Consumerist](http: consumerist.com ) * ~~[Jalopnik](http: jalopnik.com )~~ [ARTICLE POSTED](http: jalopnik.com saleen-is-suing-a-guy-on-reddit-for-calling-them-a-scam-1719508130) and any other major website covering cars heck even ask Tesla Motors. It s better for the campaign and Saleen needs to understand that bullying is not accepted. Maybe we need to go Spartacus on this and we should all post our opinion on social media networks ) Also I would upload a better picture it really helps (and makes it looks more legitimate). Can you use a photo of the binder or your car or does it have to be a personal pic? Whatever it is proper resolution and focus will make a big difference. Good luck and keep us updated please.

Fred this sounds stressful. I love what you do for this community and encourage anybody to do what they can to help out.

3e3qnp

UPDATE on the situation with Saleen and the injunction - I m sorry to ask but I need your help This post is in reference to this [thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e0fa9 saleen_is_trying_to_get_an_injunction_against_me ) which is full of advice and support so I want to sincerely thank everyone for your help. These are stressful times for me and I really appreciate your support. The most popular advice was lawyer up which I think is the right thing to do but I discussed the case with a few lawyers and they are all telling me how these are complicated cases and they will need experts and so on. As you can imagine they are asking for a lot of money. Most quotes I got was for a minimum retainer of $10 000 and they say it can go up to $50 000 in legal fees! A few people in the original thread suggested to crowdfund a legal fund I ve never asked the internet for money before and I feel bad to do so but it seems like it might be my only option if I want a chance to get out of this. I don t have this kind of money on hand and would have to sell a majority of my assets to afford it. I m only 23 (24 next week) I don t have a lot to my name. Here s the link to the Indiegogo life campaign. (~~some people talked about Gofundme and I went and tried to create a campaign but apparently they don t accept legal funds - my understanding is that it was only for criminal cases they don t accept and this is a civil case but they put the campaign other review and I don t have that kind of time~~) GoFundMe quickly approved my campaign. I don t know much about these platforms so maybe some of you prefer this one over Indiegogo Life so here it is: GoFundMe campaign. Another issue is time the first preliminary hearing is next Tuesday and I would have the gather the funds by Friday to get a lawyer. I try to manage my expectations because this is a very particular situation but I don t know the internet amazed me before... If we manage to raise the funds and I somehow manage to get the money back after the legal process I will certainly make sure to give the money back in the most efficient way possible. Thank you for hearing me out. Sincerely Fred ________________________ Quick update: We are at $3 000. Wow. I m truly overwhelmed by your support. I appreciate it greatly. Sorry for not being too active on the thread right now. I m currently going through the documents over and over again adding notes see if maybe we can kill this ridiculous thing before it becomes too big. I will sit down this afternoon with a lawyer I talked with yesterday. Some have raised concerns about the urgency and the timeframe. I understand the doubts. Here s the notice saying that the first hearing (I don t know if you can call it that) is Tuesday: https: i.imgur.com fVd7aUI.png?1 The paper only covers my address. You have the information about the location and everything so if you are in the region and want to meet let me know. Thanks again for all your support. I ll try to keep you updated but Iike some of you said the lawyers will probably tell me to shut up. We ll see.

You need to submit this to: * [InsideEVs](http: insideevs.com ) * [Green Car Reports](http: www.greencarreports.com ) * [AutoBlog](http: www.autoblog.com ) ([Green](http: www.autoblog.com green )) * [Edmunds](http: www.edmunds.com ) * [The Car Connection](http: www.thecarconnection.com ) * [Consumerist](http: consumerist.com ) * ~~[Jalopnik](http: jalopnik.com )~~ [ARTICLE POSTED](http: jalopnik.com saleen-is-suing-a-guy-on-reddit-for-calling-them-a-scam-1719508130) and any other major website covering cars heck even ask Tesla Motors. It s better for the campaign and Saleen needs to understand that bullying is not accepted. Maybe we need to go Spartacus on this and we should all post our opinion on social media networks ) Also I would upload a better picture it really helps (and makes it looks more legitimate). Can you use a photo of the binder or your car or does it have to be a personal pic? Whatever it is proper resolution and focus will make a big difference. Good luck and keep us updated please.

Upvoted and donated. I d recommend adding functional links in the IndieGogo page - your other post really put this in perspective for me. [e: snip]

3ebcil

UPDATE #3 on the Saleen situation - Probably my last update ______________________________________________________________________________________ I know another update! But a lot of people are asking me to keep everyone updated and that s the best way I suppose. It most likely will be my last update on this... BTW if nothing good comes out of this at least it would have brought a lot of new people to r teslamotors - [Recent Traffic](https: i.imgur.com gNeM2ba.png) - [Traffic and New Subscribers](https: i.imgur.com Lg0Eya9.png) Welcome new r teslamotors community members. Now to the update _____________________________________________________ First of all I want to thank everyone again for all your support and also everyone who contributed to my legal defense fund. I appreciate it greatly. So Jalopnik came out with their [article](http: jalopnik.com saleen-is-suing-a-guy-on-reddit-for-calling-them-a-scam-1719508130) and I wanted to address a few things. I knew they would ask Saleen to comment and I am disappointed to only see a boilerplate response but anyway. In the whole motion they are quoting me out of context and editing my posts to only include the parts which alone without the explanation or the posts I m responding too look incriminating. But it really is not that simple. You can skip the part between these lines if you don t want a get into the technical and a rabbit-hole of links. ____________________ One example. To claim I m saying that they are under SEC investigation they use this following [comment](http: investorshub.advfn.com boards read_msg.aspx?message_id=115375826) I made: &gt You are following a shady CEO. The guy has been highly involved in 2 companies that went bankrupt and he is doing business with even shadier people David Weiner Michael Waldman Richard Zaremba Seth and Curt Kramer and the list goes on. Guys that between them have been accused or being investigated for anything from rape to security fraud. &gt &gt And now this Greentech business with guys selling fast track to American citizenships to Chinese businessman to finance their company. Their also under SEC investigation BTW. &gt &gt This thing is getting uglier every day. This comment might look bad on itself not that calling someone shady should even be considered defamation and I don t think that s what they are claiming but I had previously backed all these claims with links in previous comments of course these posts didn t make it into Saleen s motion. Let s quickly go over each of the claims one by one: - Steve Saleen being highly involved in 2 companies that went bankrupt : Well this I hope is not disputed because it was highly reported on: [Saleen Inc](http: www.thecarconnection.com tips-article 1010946_asc-files-chapter-11-awaits-saleen). - [ZX Automotive](http: www.autonews.com article 20080630 GLOBAL03 306309998 chinese-automaker-cuts-ties-to-chamco). - David Weiner is the owner of W-Net which is a [major stockholder](http: i.imgur.com MnmZNpr.jpg) and note holder of Saleen. These articles describes why I think he is a shady person: [Bloomberg](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=1&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwiVs5euge_GAhUBWz4KHSxrB-U&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2014-06-18%2Flegal-pot-sets-off-penny-stock-frenzy&amp amp ei=8rCvVZXyNIG2-QGs1p2oDg&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGwO9Y2t-i5Ze2627u6qfgrZ2zv7Q&amp amp sig2=KlwmDRa1p_bnZ1ff3oA9sw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) [NY Post 1](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=3&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CCsQFjACahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F10%2F19%2Freefer-sadness-sec-sniffing-out-pot-companies-for-fraud%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGlfwfTOnYPdQ_X2RmKs3ZWKb6frw&amp amp sig2=UpU1F26qkAjGfscdNxbMBw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) [NY Post 2](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=2&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CCQQFjABahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F10%2F29%2Fsmelling-smoke-and-pulling-the-alarm-in-sec-pot-probe%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGTBaWwQUUEG_4CbZKV_UidZZlGdw&amp amp sig2=my7YmUXJ9Rvbotlt0XE4cw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) and [NY Post 3](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=1&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F12%2F12%2Fsec-weed-wackers-sparked-growlife-fears%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNEmg--vmc5YrnZBlDJdb3V1MJUEZg&amp amp sig2=T62hdqRPZPBd-scbv0-Plg&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw). - Waldman and Zaremba are more sneaky. They arranged a party for Saleen they also help with [auto shows](http: debtcraft.com event saleen-automotive-la-auto-show ) and allegedly were hired to find financing for Saleen. They operate debtcraft.com. They have since removed most mention of Saleen on their website (after I posted about them on iHub) but I managed to screencap through caches before they got removed: screenshot [1](https: i.imgur.com qDYEnWZ.png) - [2](https: i.imgur.com XCS8dGc.png). Zaremba was [accused](https: i.imgur.com N8Z3grX.png) of sexual conduct with a minor. Also you can read these reports although they are unconfirmed they talk about finding girls to bring to investor parties - including Saleen parties: [report 1](https: www.ripoffreport.com r Debtcraft-Private-Client-Group-BIO Woodland-Hills-California Debtcraft-Private-Client-Group-BIO-BIO-BIO-Debtcraft-PCG-BIO-Media-Fake-swimwear-model-1114281) [report 2](https: www.ripoffreport.com r Debtcraft- Sherman-Oaks-California-91411 Debtcraft-Richard-Zaremba-Michael-Waldman-Conmen-Sherman-Oaks-California-1184917) [Facebook page](https: www.facebook.com maddie.bean.9400?fref=ts). - Now Seth and Curt Kramer are more of a straightforward case. They are linked to KBM Worldwide which owned or still owns convertible notes from SLNN: [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003040 form8k.htm ) [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003160 form8k.htm ) [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003262 form8k.htm ). Seth Kramer conspired in a lender mortgage fraud case and consequently had to [settled for $1.2 million](http: www.justice.gov usao nys pressreleases December11 cambridgesettlementpr.pdf ) and he is barred permanently from HUD programs. Curt Kramer used to run a toxic financing company called Mazuma. The SEC finally got round to [suing him in 2013](https: www.sec.gov litigation admin 2013 33-9485.pdf). He [settled with them](https: www.sec.gov News PressRelease Detail PressRelease 1370540410863) for a sum he wouldn t miss. - As for the comments about Greentech it is quite complicated but what I said was based on an [article](http: www.politico.com story 2015 03 hillary-clinton-brother-tony-rodham-terry-mcauliffe-116447.html) that I quoted a few comments before that in which it says that Greentech was under an on going SEC investigation according to a Senator. The article also describes how they get Chinese businessman to invest through influence with the immigration bureau. As for Greentech s link with Saleen they entered into agreement about [licensing](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=10756755-991-6780&amp type=sect&amp TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002457&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) and [IP rights](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=10718737-1016-16035&amp type=sect&amp TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002214&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo). The thing came up in this [comment](http: investorshub.advfn.com boards read_msg.aspx?message_id=115102413) after a poster was suggesting that Greentech could easily help out Saleen because their founder was a billionaire . In the comment I point out that the poster is confusing Charles Wang the billionaire owner of the New York islanders and Charles Wang the CEO of Greentech. Ridiculous. _____________________________________________ This is one example. I think I can do that with every single one of the comments they are quoting. I m currently in the process of doing just that. I want to drop a few more information because I spoke with lawyers yesterday and it doesn t look good for the temporary injunction hearing Tuesday since we don t have time to make a solid case by then. So it is likely that I will be under a temporary injunction until we get to court. This is why it might be my last update. In the meantime here s a few thing: I want to bring up a few things about the Saleen Tesla since it s what sparked this whole thing and we are in r teslamotors after all. In three weeks it will have been 1 year since they unveiled the Saleen Tesla and to the best of my knowledge they have yet to confirm any performance - which they claim to have improved on including the 0 to 60. To be clear a Saleen representative did lie to me about being in partnership with Tesla. Here is a [screenshot of the email](http: imgur.com 2abYwzG). Also in this [video](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=5r5oQDTBTBI&amp feature=youtu.be&amp t=1m30s) of the unveiling of the car at Pebble Beach last year a Saleen representative makes a lot of claims which I go through in the original Reddit [thread here](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2egltj is_saleen_lying_in_order_to_sell_its_version_of ). In the motion they do bring up this r teslamotors thread but they don t seem to point out exactly what s wrong with it other than they don t like it? I included Saleen s PR response in the post it s not my fault if Saleen s PR is contradicting what their reps are saying. Regarding the claim that I damaged their stock and in their motion (paragraph 27) they imply that my increased posting on the board starting in April cause the stock s tumble. I addressed that in the [original thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e0fa9 saleen_is_trying_to_get_an_injunction_against_me ) about this whole ordeal but here s more definitive proof as to how this is bullshit: [Saleen s 10K](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com DisplayFiling.aspx?TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002943&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) - page 25. In this section they clearly state that the unsecured convertible notes they issued are a risk to their common stock: &gt Risks Related to our Common Stock &gt &gt We currently have secured and unsecured convertible notes payable with conversion rates that vary depending on the market price of our stock which have and may continue to have a significant dilutive impact to stockholders. The conversion of debt has adversely impacted the market price of our stock which may continue. [...] &gt **From March 31 2015 to the filing of date of this Form 10-K** (July 13th) $285 920 of principal and $16 594 of accrued and unpaid interest **had been converted into 355 303 951 shares of our Common Stock**. Based on the closing price of our stock as of July 13 2015 the notes were convertible into approximately 314 000 000 shares of our Common Stock. They are saying that starting in April until July 13th they almost triple their outstanding shares. This is called dilution and of course will affect negatively their stock which apparently they are stating in their on Going Concerns. Here are the changes in Saleen s outstanding shares: http: imgur.com 1ECJJUm I have to run out again. I m meeting more lawyers today.Thanks again everyone for your support. I appreciate it greatly. Fred

These guys are retarded. I cant believe they are wasting their time with you and wasting your time. I hope you smash these clowns.

Needs some TLDR

3ebcil

UPDATE #3 on the Saleen situation - Probably my last update ______________________________________________________________________________________ I know another update! But a lot of people are asking me to keep everyone updated and that s the best way I suppose. It most likely will be my last update on this... BTW if nothing good comes out of this at least it would have brought a lot of new people to r teslamotors - [Recent Traffic](https: i.imgur.com gNeM2ba.png) - [Traffic and New Subscribers](https: i.imgur.com Lg0Eya9.png) Welcome new r teslamotors community members. Now to the update _____________________________________________________ First of all I want to thank everyone again for all your support and also everyone who contributed to my legal defense fund. I appreciate it greatly. So Jalopnik came out with their [article](http: jalopnik.com saleen-is-suing-a-guy-on-reddit-for-calling-them-a-scam-1719508130) and I wanted to address a few things. I knew they would ask Saleen to comment and I am disappointed to only see a boilerplate response but anyway. In the whole motion they are quoting me out of context and editing my posts to only include the parts which alone without the explanation or the posts I m responding too look incriminating. But it really is not that simple. You can skip the part between these lines if you don t want a get into the technical and a rabbit-hole of links. ____________________ One example. To claim I m saying that they are under SEC investigation they use this following [comment](http: investorshub.advfn.com boards read_msg.aspx?message_id=115375826) I made: &gt You are following a shady CEO. The guy has been highly involved in 2 companies that went bankrupt and he is doing business with even shadier people David Weiner Michael Waldman Richard Zaremba Seth and Curt Kramer and the list goes on. Guys that between them have been accused or being investigated for anything from rape to security fraud. &gt &gt And now this Greentech business with guys selling fast track to American citizenships to Chinese businessman to finance their company. Their also under SEC investigation BTW. &gt &gt This thing is getting uglier every day. This comment might look bad on itself not that calling someone shady should even be considered defamation and I don t think that s what they are claiming but I had previously backed all these claims with links in previous comments of course these posts didn t make it into Saleen s motion. Let s quickly go over each of the claims one by one: - Steve Saleen being highly involved in 2 companies that went bankrupt : Well this I hope is not disputed because it was highly reported on: [Saleen Inc](http: www.thecarconnection.com tips-article 1010946_asc-files-chapter-11-awaits-saleen). - [ZX Automotive](http: www.autonews.com article 20080630 GLOBAL03 306309998 chinese-automaker-cuts-ties-to-chamco). - David Weiner is the owner of W-Net which is a [major stockholder](http: i.imgur.com MnmZNpr.jpg) and note holder of Saleen. These articles describes why I think he is a shady person: [Bloomberg](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=1&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwiVs5euge_GAhUBWz4KHSxrB-U&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2014-06-18%2Flegal-pot-sets-off-penny-stock-frenzy&amp amp ei=8rCvVZXyNIG2-QGs1p2oDg&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGwO9Y2t-i5Ze2627u6qfgrZ2zv7Q&amp amp sig2=KlwmDRa1p_bnZ1ff3oA9sw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) [NY Post 1](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=3&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CCsQFjACahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F10%2F19%2Freefer-sadness-sec-sniffing-out-pot-companies-for-fraud%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGlfwfTOnYPdQ_X2RmKs3ZWKb6frw&amp amp sig2=UpU1F26qkAjGfscdNxbMBw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) [NY Post 2](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=2&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CCQQFjABahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F10%2F29%2Fsmelling-smoke-and-pulling-the-alarm-in-sec-pot-probe%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGTBaWwQUUEG_4CbZKV_UidZZlGdw&amp amp sig2=my7YmUXJ9Rvbotlt0XE4cw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) and [NY Post 3](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=1&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F12%2F12%2Fsec-weed-wackers-sparked-growlife-fears%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNEmg--vmc5YrnZBlDJdb3V1MJUEZg&amp amp sig2=T62hdqRPZPBd-scbv0-Plg&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw). - Waldman and Zaremba are more sneaky. They arranged a party for Saleen they also help with [auto shows](http: debtcraft.com event saleen-automotive-la-auto-show ) and allegedly were hired to find financing for Saleen. They operate debtcraft.com. They have since removed most mention of Saleen on their website (after I posted about them on iHub) but I managed to screencap through caches before they got removed: screenshot [1](https: i.imgur.com qDYEnWZ.png) - [2](https: i.imgur.com XCS8dGc.png). Zaremba was [accused](https: i.imgur.com N8Z3grX.png) of sexual conduct with a minor. Also you can read these reports although they are unconfirmed they talk about finding girls to bring to investor parties - including Saleen parties: [report 1](https: www.ripoffreport.com r Debtcraft-Private-Client-Group-BIO Woodland-Hills-California Debtcraft-Private-Client-Group-BIO-BIO-BIO-Debtcraft-PCG-BIO-Media-Fake-swimwear-model-1114281) [report 2](https: www.ripoffreport.com r Debtcraft- Sherman-Oaks-California-91411 Debtcraft-Richard-Zaremba-Michael-Waldman-Conmen-Sherman-Oaks-California-1184917) [Facebook page](https: www.facebook.com maddie.bean.9400?fref=ts). - Now Seth and Curt Kramer are more of a straightforward case. They are linked to KBM Worldwide which owned or still owns convertible notes from SLNN: [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003040 form8k.htm ) [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003160 form8k.htm ) [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003262 form8k.htm ). Seth Kramer conspired in a lender mortgage fraud case and consequently had to [settled for $1.2 million](http: www.justice.gov usao nys pressreleases December11 cambridgesettlementpr.pdf ) and he is barred permanently from HUD programs. Curt Kramer used to run a toxic financing company called Mazuma. The SEC finally got round to [suing him in 2013](https: www.sec.gov litigation admin 2013 33-9485.pdf). He [settled with them](https: www.sec.gov News PressRelease Detail PressRelease 1370540410863) for a sum he wouldn t miss. - As for the comments about Greentech it is quite complicated but what I said was based on an [article](http: www.politico.com story 2015 03 hillary-clinton-brother-tony-rodham-terry-mcauliffe-116447.html) that I quoted a few comments before that in which it says that Greentech was under an on going SEC investigation according to a Senator. The article also describes how they get Chinese businessman to invest through influence with the immigration bureau. As for Greentech s link with Saleen they entered into agreement about [licensing](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=10756755-991-6780&amp type=sect&amp TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002457&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) and [IP rights](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=10718737-1016-16035&amp type=sect&amp TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002214&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo). The thing came up in this [comment](http: investorshub.advfn.com boards read_msg.aspx?message_id=115102413) after a poster was suggesting that Greentech could easily help out Saleen because their founder was a billionaire . In the comment I point out that the poster is confusing Charles Wang the billionaire owner of the New York islanders and Charles Wang the CEO of Greentech. Ridiculous. _____________________________________________ This is one example. I think I can do that with every single one of the comments they are quoting. I m currently in the process of doing just that. I want to drop a few more information because I spoke with lawyers yesterday and it doesn t look good for the temporary injunction hearing Tuesday since we don t have time to make a solid case by then. So it is likely that I will be under a temporary injunction until we get to court. This is why it might be my last update. In the meantime here s a few thing: I want to bring up a few things about the Saleen Tesla since it s what sparked this whole thing and we are in r teslamotors after all. In three weeks it will have been 1 year since they unveiled the Saleen Tesla and to the best of my knowledge they have yet to confirm any performance - which they claim to have improved on including the 0 to 60. To be clear a Saleen representative did lie to me about being in partnership with Tesla. Here is a [screenshot of the email](http: imgur.com 2abYwzG). Also in this [video](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=5r5oQDTBTBI&amp feature=youtu.be&amp t=1m30s) of the unveiling of the car at Pebble Beach last year a Saleen representative makes a lot of claims which I go through in the original Reddit [thread here](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2egltj is_saleen_lying_in_order_to_sell_its_version_of ). In the motion they do bring up this r teslamotors thread but they don t seem to point out exactly what s wrong with it other than they don t like it? I included Saleen s PR response in the post it s not my fault if Saleen s PR is contradicting what their reps are saying. Regarding the claim that I damaged their stock and in their motion (paragraph 27) they imply that my increased posting on the board starting in April cause the stock s tumble. I addressed that in the [original thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e0fa9 saleen_is_trying_to_get_an_injunction_against_me ) about this whole ordeal but here s more definitive proof as to how this is bullshit: [Saleen s 10K](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com DisplayFiling.aspx?TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002943&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) - page 25. In this section they clearly state that the unsecured convertible notes they issued are a risk to their common stock: &gt Risks Related to our Common Stock &gt &gt We currently have secured and unsecured convertible notes payable with conversion rates that vary depending on the market price of our stock which have and may continue to have a significant dilutive impact to stockholders. The conversion of debt has adversely impacted the market price of our stock which may continue. [...] &gt **From March 31 2015 to the filing of date of this Form 10-K** (July 13th) $285 920 of principal and $16 594 of accrued and unpaid interest **had been converted into 355 303 951 shares of our Common Stock**. Based on the closing price of our stock as of July 13 2015 the notes were convertible into approximately 314 000 000 shares of our Common Stock. They are saying that starting in April until July 13th they almost triple their outstanding shares. This is called dilution and of course will affect negatively their stock which apparently they are stating in their on Going Concerns. Here are the changes in Saleen s outstanding shares: http: imgur.com 1ECJJUm I have to run out again. I m meeting more lawyers today.Thanks again everyone for your support. I appreciate it greatly. Fred

Any respect I had for Saleen is totally gone

Needs some TLDR

3ebcil

UPDATE #3 on the Saleen situation - Probably my last update ______________________________________________________________________________________ I know another update! But a lot of people are asking me to keep everyone updated and that s the best way I suppose. It most likely will be my last update on this... BTW if nothing good comes out of this at least it would have brought a lot of new people to r teslamotors - [Recent Traffic](https: i.imgur.com gNeM2ba.png) - [Traffic and New Subscribers](https: i.imgur.com Lg0Eya9.png) Welcome new r teslamotors community members. Now to the update _____________________________________________________ First of all I want to thank everyone again for all your support and also everyone who contributed to my legal defense fund. I appreciate it greatly. So Jalopnik came out with their [article](http: jalopnik.com saleen-is-suing-a-guy-on-reddit-for-calling-them-a-scam-1719508130) and I wanted to address a few things. I knew they would ask Saleen to comment and I am disappointed to only see a boilerplate response but anyway. In the whole motion they are quoting me out of context and editing my posts to only include the parts which alone without the explanation or the posts I m responding too look incriminating. But it really is not that simple. You can skip the part between these lines if you don t want a get into the technical and a rabbit-hole of links. ____________________ One example. To claim I m saying that they are under SEC investigation they use this following [comment](http: investorshub.advfn.com boards read_msg.aspx?message_id=115375826) I made: &gt You are following a shady CEO. The guy has been highly involved in 2 companies that went bankrupt and he is doing business with even shadier people David Weiner Michael Waldman Richard Zaremba Seth and Curt Kramer and the list goes on. Guys that between them have been accused or being investigated for anything from rape to security fraud. &gt &gt And now this Greentech business with guys selling fast track to American citizenships to Chinese businessman to finance their company. Their also under SEC investigation BTW. &gt &gt This thing is getting uglier every day. This comment might look bad on itself not that calling someone shady should even be considered defamation and I don t think that s what they are claiming but I had previously backed all these claims with links in previous comments of course these posts didn t make it into Saleen s motion. Let s quickly go over each of the claims one by one: - Steve Saleen being highly involved in 2 companies that went bankrupt : Well this I hope is not disputed because it was highly reported on: [Saleen Inc](http: www.thecarconnection.com tips-article 1010946_asc-files-chapter-11-awaits-saleen). - [ZX Automotive](http: www.autonews.com article 20080630 GLOBAL03 306309998 chinese-automaker-cuts-ties-to-chamco). - David Weiner is the owner of W-Net which is a [major stockholder](http: i.imgur.com MnmZNpr.jpg) and note holder of Saleen. These articles describes why I think he is a shady person: [Bloomberg](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=1&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwiVs5euge_GAhUBWz4KHSxrB-U&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2014-06-18%2Flegal-pot-sets-off-penny-stock-frenzy&amp amp ei=8rCvVZXyNIG2-QGs1p2oDg&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGwO9Y2t-i5Ze2627u6qfgrZ2zv7Q&amp amp sig2=KlwmDRa1p_bnZ1ff3oA9sw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) [NY Post 1](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=3&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CCsQFjACahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F10%2F19%2Freefer-sadness-sec-sniffing-out-pot-companies-for-fraud%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGlfwfTOnYPdQ_X2RmKs3ZWKb6frw&amp amp sig2=UpU1F26qkAjGfscdNxbMBw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) [NY Post 2](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=2&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CCQQFjABahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F10%2F29%2Fsmelling-smoke-and-pulling-the-alarm-in-sec-pot-probe%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNGTBaWwQUUEG_4CbZKV_UidZZlGdw&amp amp sig2=my7YmUXJ9Rvbotlt0XE4cw&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw) and [NY Post 3](https: www.google.ca url?sa=t&amp amp rct=j&amp amp q=&amp amp esrc=s&amp amp source=web&amp amp cd=1&amp amp cad=rja&amp amp uact=8&amp amp ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjNosjIge_GAhULaz4KHdRXCd8&amp amp url=http%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2014%2F12%2F12%2Fsec-weed-wackers-sparked-growlife-fears%2F&amp amp ei=KrGvVc3lC4vW-QHUr6X4DQ&amp amp usg=AFQjCNEmg--vmc5YrnZBlDJdb3V1MJUEZg&amp amp sig2=T62hdqRPZPBd-scbv0-Plg&amp amp bvm=bv.98197061 d.cWw). - Waldman and Zaremba are more sneaky. They arranged a party for Saleen they also help with [auto shows](http: debtcraft.com event saleen-automotive-la-auto-show ) and allegedly were hired to find financing for Saleen. They operate debtcraft.com. They have since removed most mention of Saleen on their website (after I posted about them on iHub) but I managed to screencap through caches before they got removed: screenshot [1](https: i.imgur.com qDYEnWZ.png) - [2](https: i.imgur.com XCS8dGc.png). Zaremba was [accused](https: i.imgur.com N8Z3grX.png) of sexual conduct with a minor. Also you can read these reports although they are unconfirmed they talk about finding girls to bring to investor parties - including Saleen parties: [report 1](https: www.ripoffreport.com r Debtcraft-Private-Client-Group-BIO Woodland-Hills-California Debtcraft-Private-Client-Group-BIO-BIO-BIO-Debtcraft-PCG-BIO-Media-Fake-swimwear-model-1114281) [report 2](https: www.ripoffreport.com r Debtcraft- Sherman-Oaks-California-91411 Debtcraft-Richard-Zaremba-Michael-Waldman-Conmen-Sherman-Oaks-California-1184917) [Facebook page](https: www.facebook.com maddie.bean.9400?fref=ts). - Now Seth and Curt Kramer are more of a straightforward case. They are linked to KBM Worldwide which owned or still owns convertible notes from SLNN: [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003040 form8k.htm ) [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003160 form8k.htm ) [8K](https: www.sec.gov Archives edgar data 1528098 000149315214003262 form8k.htm ). Seth Kramer conspired in a lender mortgage fraud case and consequently had to [settled for $1.2 million](http: www.justice.gov usao nys pressreleases December11 cambridgesettlementpr.pdf ) and he is barred permanently from HUD programs. Curt Kramer used to run a toxic financing company called Mazuma. The SEC finally got round to [suing him in 2013](https: www.sec.gov litigation admin 2013 33-9485.pdf). He [settled with them](https: www.sec.gov News PressRelease Detail PressRelease 1370540410863) for a sum he wouldn t miss. - As for the comments about Greentech it is quite complicated but what I said was based on an [article](http: www.politico.com story 2015 03 hillary-clinton-brother-tony-rodham-terry-mcauliffe-116447.html) that I quoted a few comments before that in which it says that Greentech was under an on going SEC investigation according to a Senator. The article also describes how they get Chinese businessman to invest through influence with the immigration bureau. As for Greentech s link with Saleen they entered into agreement about [licensing](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=10756755-991-6780&amp type=sect&amp TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002457&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) and [IP rights](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=10718737-1016-16035&amp type=sect&amp TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002214&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo). The thing came up in this [comment](http: investorshub.advfn.com boards read_msg.aspx?message_id=115102413) after a poster was suggesting that Greentech could easily help out Saleen because their founder was a billionaire . In the comment I point out that the poster is confusing Charles Wang the billionaire owner of the New York islanders and Charles Wang the CEO of Greentech. Ridiculous. _____________________________________________ This is one example. I think I can do that with every single one of the comments they are quoting. I m currently in the process of doing just that. I want to drop a few more information because I spoke with lawyers yesterday and it doesn t look good for the temporary injunction hearing Tuesday since we don t have time to make a solid case by then. So it is likely that I will be under a temporary injunction until we get to court. This is why it might be my last update. In the meantime here s a few thing: I want to bring up a few things about the Saleen Tesla since it s what sparked this whole thing and we are in r teslamotors after all. In three weeks it will have been 1 year since they unveiled the Saleen Tesla and to the best of my knowledge they have yet to confirm any performance - which they claim to have improved on including the 0 to 60. To be clear a Saleen representative did lie to me about being in partnership with Tesla. Here is a [screenshot of the email](http: imgur.com 2abYwzG). Also in this [video](https: www.youtube.com watch?v=5r5oQDTBTBI&amp feature=youtu.be&amp t=1m30s) of the unveiling of the car at Pebble Beach last year a Saleen representative makes a lot of claims which I go through in the original Reddit [thread here](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 2egltj is_saleen_lying_in_order_to_sell_its_version_of ). In the motion they do bring up this r teslamotors thread but they don t seem to point out exactly what s wrong with it other than they don t like it? I included Saleen s PR response in the post it s not my fault if Saleen s PR is contradicting what their reps are saying. Regarding the claim that I damaged their stock and in their motion (paragraph 27) they imply that my increased posting on the board starting in April cause the stock s tumble. I addressed that in the [original thread](https: www.reddit.com r teslamotors comments 3e0fa9 saleen_is_trying_to_get_an_injunction_against_me ) about this whole ordeal but here s more definitive proof as to how this is bullshit: [Saleen s 10K](http: yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com DisplayFiling.aspx?TabIndex=2&amp dcn=0001493152-15-002943&amp nav=1&amp src=Yahoo) - page 25. In this section they clearly state that the unsecured convertible notes they issued are a risk to their common stock: &gt Risks Related to our Common Stock &gt &gt We currently have secured and unsecured convertible notes payable with conversion rates that vary depending on the market price of our stock which have and may continue to have a significant dilutive impact to stockholders. The conversion of debt has adversely impacted the market price of our stock which may continue. [...] &gt **From March 31 2015 to the filing of date of this Form 10-K** (July 13th) $285 920 of principal and $16 594 of accrued and unpaid interest **had been converted into 355 303 951 shares of our Common Stock**. Based on the closing price of our stock as of July 13 2015 the notes were convertible into approximately 314 000 000 shares of our Common Stock. They are saying that starting in April until July 13th they almost triple their outstanding shares. This is called dilution and of course will affect negatively their stock which apparently they are stating in their on Going Concerns. Here are the changes in Saleen s outstanding shares: http: imgur.com 1ECJJUm I have to run out again. I m meeting more lawyers today.Thanks again everyone for your support. I appreciate it greatly. Fred

These guys are retarded. I cant believe they are wasting their time with you and wasting your time. I hope you smash these clowns.

&gt What s not clear from any of this is how Lambert obtained this information But we didn t bother to ask...

3ekunp

How long will a Tesla last? ...and what s it cost to fix the major things. Yes I know that the lack of an engine is a big selling point given that the motor doesn t need oil fluids belts fans etc. but what does that mean for the long term of the car? Is this a car that you drive until the windows leak and the doors rattle? What s likely to stop these cars? Motors? Batteries? Then as a follow-up what do these motors cost (parts and labor) to replace? What do we expect a new battery pack to cost in 8-12 years? I ask because I have (mentally) booked my upcoming Model X as the last non-autonomous car I will ever buy and I m trying to figure out what s reasonable to expect. I got to thinking why do I buy new cars? and it came down to three reasons: Performance Fit and finish breaking down (rattles loose seals etc.) New Features I REALLY can t imagine I ll need more performance. Tesla is doing an AWESOME job rolling out new features to existing cars Anyhoo... I know that s a ramble but thoughts? [edit: fixed type]

When the Prius dropped people freaked out because the battery replacement was around $10 000. By the time anyone actually **needed** a battery replacement (many years later) the cost had dropped to only $2 500. So I d say if the gigafactory is on schedule then you probably will see a reasonable drop in the price of a pack by the time anyone *genuinely* needs one. If you want one now (this 85 to 90 upgrade people are yapping about) then it s going to cost a pretty penny I m sure.

Although the battery capacity will drain over time there shouldn t be any reason a Model S couldn t last for many hundreds of thousands of miles. I think there were some early problems with the drive units but they appear to have solved those. Another thing to think about is the touch screen and the computer controlling it I haven t heard of any studies being done on the longevity of these components.

3ekunp

How long will a Tesla last? ...and what s it cost to fix the major things. Yes I know that the lack of an engine is a big selling point given that the motor doesn t need oil fluids belts fans etc. but what does that mean for the long term of the car? Is this a car that you drive until the windows leak and the doors rattle? What s likely to stop these cars? Motors? Batteries? Then as a follow-up what do these motors cost (parts and labor) to replace? What do we expect a new battery pack to cost in 8-12 years? I ask because I have (mentally) booked my upcoming Model X as the last non-autonomous car I will ever buy and I m trying to figure out what s reasonable to expect. I got to thinking why do I buy new cars? and it came down to three reasons: Performance Fit and finish breaking down (rattles loose seals etc.) New Features I REALLY can t imagine I ll need more performance. Tesla is doing an AWESOME job rolling out new features to existing cars Anyhoo... I know that s a ramble but thoughts? [edit: fixed type]

The original 2012 cars had some fit and finish issues. But my P85D hasn t had any. It has some minor irritants like I prefer an adjustable seat belt anchor. However every time I drive it I think that it is a gift from the gods who came down and said people of Earth this is what cars will be like in 20 years. I m unusually lucky in that I have a 2013 Audi S7 and a 2015 Porsche Turbo. The Audi sits with rusted calipers and the Porsche at a much higher price gets driven equally to the Tesla just because it s super light and tight and handles like a slot car. But every time I get in it I am disappointed by the antiquated feeling electrical systems and that it just feels dumb. When I washed my Tesla yesterday at the car wash it recognized that I had raised my suspension last time I was at this GPS waypoint and automatically raised my suspension to Very High. I wept tears of joy. Theoretically the lifespan of a Tesla should be very long. So many fewer parts to break. If I have to replace the suspension air bags in eight years I ll be fine with it. No oil changes no muffler repairs no clunky transmission etc. etc. great car.

It s the electronics where problems may arise if the manufacturer (Tesla) ceases to support their vehicles after some yet to be revealed time. Car computers and sensors may not be glamorous but if they fail the car may becomes undrivable. So far Tesla have a good track record in supporting all cars they have made including those from seven years ago. If that policy were to change it could be bad for all involved. I d like to see Tesla release the code and schematics for at least vehicles they no longer make (like the first Roadsters 2008-2012) so that they may be kept running forever even if that release was delayed until a decade after production had finished for a particular model.

3ekunp

How long will a Tesla last? ...and what s it cost to fix the major things. Yes I know that the lack of an engine is a big selling point given that the motor doesn t need oil fluids belts fans etc. but what does that mean for the long term of the car? Is this a car that you drive until the windows leak and the doors rattle? What s likely to stop these cars? Motors? Batteries? Then as a follow-up what do these motors cost (parts and labor) to replace? What do we expect a new battery pack to cost in 8-12 years? I ask because I have (mentally) booked my upcoming Model X as the last non-autonomous car I will ever buy and I m trying to figure out what s reasonable to expect. I got to thinking why do I buy new cars? and it came down to three reasons: Performance Fit and finish breaking down (rattles loose seals etc.) New Features I REALLY can t imagine I ll need more performance. Tesla is doing an AWESOME job rolling out new features to existing cars Anyhoo... I know that s a ramble but thoughts? [edit: fixed type]

The original 2012 cars had some fit and finish issues. But my P85D hasn t had any. It has some minor irritants like I prefer an adjustable seat belt anchor. However every time I drive it I think that it is a gift from the gods who came down and said people of Earth this is what cars will be like in 20 years. I m unusually lucky in that I have a 2013 Audi S7 and a 2015 Porsche Turbo. The Audi sits with rusted calipers and the Porsche at a much higher price gets driven equally to the Tesla just because it s super light and tight and handles like a slot car. But every time I get in it I am disappointed by the antiquated feeling electrical systems and that it just feels dumb. When I washed my Tesla yesterday at the car wash it recognized that I had raised my suspension last time I was at this GPS waypoint and automatically raised my suspension to Very High. I wept tears of joy. Theoretically the lifespan of a Tesla should be very long. So many fewer parts to break. If I have to replace the suspension air bags in eight years I ll be fine with it. No oil changes no muffler repairs no clunky transmission etc. etc. great car.

Although the battery capacity will drain over time there shouldn t be any reason a Model S couldn t last for many hundreds of thousands of miles. I think there were some early problems with the drive units but they appear to have solved those. Another thing to think about is the touch screen and the computer controlling it I haven t heard of any studies being done on the longevity of these components.

3eyi1c

FredTesla ends campaign I just got an email from u FredTesla via Indigogo saying that he had ended the campaign and Indigogo would be returning all the money. He said he couldn t say any more. I m going to speculate that he reached an agreement with Saleen that they would leave him alone if he never said another word about them. Totally speculation on my part based on zero evidence. Whatever happened I wish u FredTesla the best.

Saleen was probably awarded a temporary injunction pending the lawsuit. It is pretty standard for a defamation case. They got what they want. It will shut him up until they file bankruptcy. Fuck you Saleen. I can t wait to see you go bankrupt.

Looks like he deleted the posts about the entire campaign. I m guessing Saleen said they would remove the lawsuit if he removed the posts and didn t speak about it.

3eyi1c

FredTesla ends campaign I just got an email from u FredTesla via Indigogo saying that he had ended the campaign and Indigogo would be returning all the money. He said he couldn t say any more. I m going to speculate that he reached an agreement with Saleen that they would leave him alone if he never said another word about them. Totally speculation on my part based on zero evidence. Whatever happened I wish u FredTesla the best.

Saleen was probably awarded a temporary injunction pending the lawsuit. It is pretty standard for a defamation case. They got what they want. It will shut him up until they file bankruptcy. Fuck you Saleen. I can t wait to see you go bankrupt.

Can someone give me a tl dr of all this? So out of the loop. What happened?

3eyi1c

FredTesla ends campaign I just got an email from u FredTesla via Indigogo saying that he had ended the campaign and Indigogo would be returning all the money. He said he couldn t say any more. I m going to speculate that he reached an agreement with Saleen that they would leave him alone if he never said another word about them. Totally speculation on my part based on zero evidence. Whatever happened I wish u FredTesla the best.

Saleen was probably awarded a temporary injunction pending the lawsuit. It is pretty standard for a defamation case. They got what they want. It will shut him up until they file bankruptcy. Fuck you Saleen. I can t wait to see you go bankrupt.

I hope Fred continues to contribute here. He always posts relevant news and has insightful things to say.

3f53l1

Tesla is going to have to start charging for superchargers or restrict their usage at some point in the next 5 years My thinking here is basically this: - The model 3 is going to be extremely popular with taxi drivers due to the low cost of fuel. The model 3 will probably use around 350 wh mile (Model S uses 380). Assuming electricity rates of $12 cents kWh gas prices of $3.00 gallon and an average MPG of 30 (Average NYC taxi gets 28 now) and assuming that the average taxi drives 55 000 miles per year [source](http: www.afdc.energy.gov pdfs 45148.pdf) we can deduce that the average taxi driver will save about $2200 year on fuel costs by driving an electric car. - For a large number of these taxis superchargers will be close enough and fast enough to justify the additional savings on fuel. Over the course of a year a taxi driver would use up $2310 of electricity (assuming the average residential rate of 12 cents kWh though Tesla most likely gets better prices) - If Tesla can come anywhere close to their goal of achieving a drive train that lasts a million miles ([see the announcement about ludicrous speed](http: cleantechnica.com 2015 07 21 tesla-power-train-lifetime-goal-1-million-miles )) then these taxis are going to eat up somewhere between $9000 and $70 000 worth of electricity over the course of their lifetime. - The economics of this simply will not work out in the long run. Tesla charges $2000 for supercharging (or at least they did) of which only $1000 was set aside for electricity costs. There s one really big question about the Model 3 that will have an impact on its suitability as a taxi: how big will it be? The Model S has 115 cubic feet of interior volume. New York City passed an ordinance that required all new taxis to have an interior volume of at least 130 cubic feet. With the Model 3 supposedly 20% smaller than the Model S this could be a problem. However I think it is reasonable to assume that even if the first version of the Model 3 isn t big enough to work as a taxi some subsequent model WILL be big enough. I think it s most likely that Tesla will implement some kind of limit on how much free charging a driver can do every year and then start charging them per kWh afterwards. I m guessing they ll settle on something like the first 2 megawatt hours are free and then you have to start paying after that. What are your thoughts?

We do not know if the model 3 will have free access to the superchargers.

You are correct. To see proof that this is being planned for just take a look back at the terminology used to describe the superchargers in Elon s speeches. When the superchargers first came out it was implied to be free for life with a one time fee lumped into the car s price. It was then stated specifically that it s free for all model s and now being specifically referred to as free for long distance travel. As the years go on nothing specific has been said about per use pricing but the superchargers are being referenced as being less and less openly free by elon.

3f53l1

Tesla is going to have to start charging for superchargers or restrict their usage at some point in the next 5 years My thinking here is basically this: - The model 3 is going to be extremely popular with taxi drivers due to the low cost of fuel. The model 3 will probably use around 350 wh mile (Model S uses 380). Assuming electricity rates of $12 cents kWh gas prices of $3.00 gallon and an average MPG of 30 (Average NYC taxi gets 28 now) and assuming that the average taxi drives 55 000 miles per year [source](http: www.afdc.energy.gov pdfs 45148.pdf) we can deduce that the average taxi driver will save about $2200 year on fuel costs by driving an electric car. - For a large number of these taxis superchargers will be close enough and fast enough to justify the additional savings on fuel. Over the course of a year a taxi driver would use up $2310 of electricity (assuming the average residential rate of 12 cents kWh though Tesla most likely gets better prices) - If Tesla can come anywhere close to their goal of achieving a drive train that lasts a million miles ([see the announcement about ludicrous speed](http: cleantechnica.com 2015 07 21 tesla-power-train-lifetime-goal-1-million-miles )) then these taxis are going to eat up somewhere between $9000 and $70 000 worth of electricity over the course of their lifetime. - The economics of this simply will not work out in the long run. Tesla charges $2000 for supercharging (or at least they did) of which only $1000 was set aside for electricity costs. There s one really big question about the Model 3 that will have an impact on its suitability as a taxi: how big will it be? The Model S has 115 cubic feet of interior volume. New York City passed an ordinance that required all new taxis to have an interior volume of at least 130 cubic feet. With the Model 3 supposedly 20% smaller than the Model S this could be a problem. However I think it is reasonable to assume that even if the first version of the Model 3 isn t big enough to work as a taxi some subsequent model WILL be big enough. I think it s most likely that Tesla will implement some kind of limit on how much free charging a driver can do every year and then start charging them per kWh afterwards. I m guessing they ll settle on something like the first 2 megawatt hours are free and then you have to start paying after that. What are your thoughts?

We do not know if the model 3 will have free access to the superchargers.

Is there a superchargers TOS? I am guessing that it is will be limited for personal use only.