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yeah, we're finished.Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: shall I take your uh powerProject Manager: Oh sorry.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Try again.Marketing: Okay. This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation, and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trends introduced by the marketing department. So, this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise. So I'm going to go and use the whiteboard, and I've made a list of criteria to look at, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing, but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false, going over these different criteria, so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board. Okay. So um fancy, technologically innovative, easy to use, trendy, buttons, excess buttons, good buttons, ugly, sellable, and other. And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms, because these are things that um have been brought up, some of them seem rather close,User Interface: Yeah, what about price, is that gonna go on there as well Price of materials.Marketing: like they overlap. Mm, yeah, price.Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: We'll put price up at the top.User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that we actually know anything about it,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but we can we can pretend.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well we will soon, unfortunately.Marketing: Um Okay, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Come on.Marketing: Did you say {gap}Project Manager: No, {gap}.Marketing: Uh okay, so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancyUser Interface: It depends what what you mean by fancy really,'cause when I think it should be pretty cheap to develop. We haven't got a lot of expensive components in there.Project Manager: Yes, the instinct says true.Marketing: Okay. So true one or should I go to two or threeIndustrial Designer: I'd put it at one I think, but {disfmarker} I dunno, what do you {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say maybe a two,Marketing: Okay.User Interface:'cause we still {disfmarker} we need to uh get somebody in who is good with the programming for the menus and things.Industrial Designer: Yeah, true,User Interface: I mean it's not just like {disfmarker} I mean it's not like ev you know, on a normal chunky remote every button res I mean means something different,Project Manager: Yeah, that's not a cheap thing to get.Industrial Designer: it might be the {disfmarker} yeah, yeah, true. True.User Interface: whereas this one has only got the four buttons and they all {disfmarker} they mean everything, depending on what menu you're in.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's a good point.User Interface: {gap} uh we need somebody to develop that.Marketing: Um other Anything else you guys can thing of And I'm gonna actually change a couple of these so then I'm gonna {disfmarker} instead of ugly I'm gonna say it's attractive and then make that true, so that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing:'cause I have to do an average. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right.Marketing: And then um excess buttons.User Interface: Just putting no excess buttons.Marketing: Exactly. Wow we're doing really well. Yeah, be you know,User Interface: As for {disfmarker}Marketing: so it doesn't ruin the polarity.User Interface: see if we're technologically innovative, I'd say it is quite innovative, because there aren't really many that have this menu idea instead of all the extra buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: I mean I know we're not doing anything involving internet or speech recognition but but we thing for it, because then it'd just be rigid.Marketing: I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: Yeah, {gap} we really like we really like that design,Marketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean it looks just like a logo, that arrangement of the keys. Like a c like a compass point, you know,Marketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.User Interface: just up, down, left and right, and we think we could make that quite a good feature. And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel, {vocalsound} but better.Marketing: Yeah. But it's also like texting,User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,Marketing: you don't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of, mobile phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was try I was thinking, moving your thumb like this, what does that remind me ofIndustrial Designer: And it's a very simple design,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: It's texting.Industrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong, the components are cheap to make.Marketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different.User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: You know, I I d I have several {disfmarker} four remotes, and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: you know, this is really identifiable.User Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we do need to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of, you know, text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option.Project Manager: Okay. The next item is evaluation.Marketing: No, okay.Project Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished.User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah well,'cause I mean it's so hard to describe what you mean just with words and pointing at photographs and saying, well we quite want this, but imagine it rounder. So much better just to go and, you know, this is it, this is what we want. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} So, we went over all those things and we're satisfied with all the above.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Um did we find any new ideasMarketing: I think with the marketing element of uh fruit shaped I I mean I {disfmarker} that really opened my eyes.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound} Spongy.Marketing: I I only speak for myself though.User Interface: And I'd never heard of the kinetic energy before,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: so. Good work as a design team,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah, I think we're a good team actually.User Interface: because we {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'm not sure all the wires are really great though.Project Manager: So we actually worked well as a group.Industrial Designer: I thought so.Project Manager: Right. Are the costs within the budget Yes.User Interface: Oh yes.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: Is the project evaluatedIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: I can give you a number,Industrial Designer: hang on, Oh we haven't heard. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: um it's uh {disfmarker} the average evaluation score is one point eight eight, so it means w you know, I can I can spell it out. There were six true or ones, four um pardon me, two s almost true or close to true, so that was four points, and then uh one false, seven points, so seventeen divided by nine {disfmarker} we're between one and two. I would say that's ex excellent in terms of uh ho how much we adhere to the ideals of the are at the upper end of the push button market. {vocalsound}Marketing: Or L_C_D_. Yeah. Well if you g uh let me know if if any of these {disfmarker} um if you if you all can think of any other um thing to change here {disfmarker} if you th if you think I should change the innovative or add other features. If not I'll average those.Project Manager: I think we're good.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay. Mm.Project Manager: Okay. We're a little over halfway through the meetingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the next big thing is the finance. Okay.Marketing: Um okay, how about if I uh pass this back to youProject Manager: Yep.Marketing: and I'll uh figure out the average here.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Thank you for everyone's help with that.Project Manager: Right. And as you can see it says the same thing, it had not lost itself, thank Goodness. And we're going to raise what's called a sp a spreadsheet that they provided to me. Um and it says fill in the number of components you plan to use in your device.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hand dynamo, battery, kinetic, solar cells. Okay.User Interface: Well, just kinetic then, {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Um what's a hand dynamoIndustrial Designer: That was the crank, wind-up crank on the side. {vocalsound}User Interface: It's the wind-up.Project Manager: OhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: shoot, forget that. Kinetic is um {disfmarker} and how many of those will we need per {disfmarker} we only need one.Industrial Designer: Just one.Project Manager: Okay. Electronic simple chip on print, and we'll need one of those.Industrial Designer: Uh uh yeah, I think we can do it all with simple {disfmarker} Just checking that. Yeah, simple,'cause we've just got push buttons, so we can do it all with simple which is the ch should be the

Summarize the discussion about the propotype presentation about the buttons and main features the remote control.

User Interface first summarized the propotype of the remote control discussed before. The remote control should be curved, easy to hold, nice and small with big buttons. Those buttons were a scroll and some push buttons. The body of the remote control shall be smooth plastic or spongy rubber with yellow and black buttons. The remote control would be comfortable to watch because it had suitable curtature and it's on-off was in the back.

thing for it, because then it'd just be rigid.Marketing: I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: Yeah, {gap} we really like we really like that design,Marketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean it looks just like a logo, that arrangement of the keys. Like a c like a compass point, you know,Marketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.User Interface: just up, down, left and right, and we think we could make that quite a good feature. And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel, {vocalsound} but better.Marketing: Yeah. But it's also like texting,User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,Marketing: you don't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of, mobile phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was try I was thinking, moving your thumb like this, what does that remind me ofIndustrial Designer: And it's a very simple design,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: It's texting.Industrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong, the components are cheap to make.Marketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different.User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: You know, I I d I have several {disfmarker} four remotes, and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: you know, this is really identifiable.User Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we do need to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of, you know, text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option.Project Manager: Okay. The next item is evaluation.Marketing: No, okay.Project Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished.User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh are at the upper end of the push button market. {vocalsound}Marketing: Or L_C_D_. Yeah. Well if you g uh let me know if if any of these {disfmarker} um if you if you all can think of any other um thing to change here {disfmarker} if you th if you think I should change the innovative or add other features. If not I'll average those.Project Manager: I think we're good.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay. Mm.Project Manager: Okay. We're a little over halfway through the meetingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the next big thing is the finance. Okay.Marketing: Um okay, how about if I uh pass this back to youProject Manager: Yep.Marketing: and I'll uh figure out the average here.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Thank you for everyone's help with that.Project Manager: Right. And as you can see it says the same thing, it had not lost itself, thank Goodness. And we're going to raise what's called a sp a spreadsheet that they provided to me. Um and it says fill in the number of components you plan to use in your device.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hand dynamo, battery, kinetic, solar cells. Okay.User Interface: Well, just kinetic then, {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Um what's a hand dynamoIndustrial Designer: That was the crank, wind-up crank on the side. {vocalsound}User Interface: It's the wind-up.Project Manager: OhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: shoot, forget that. Kinetic is um {disfmarker} and how many of those will we need per {disfmarker} we only need one.Industrial Designer: Just one.Project Manager: Okay. Electronic simple chip on print, and we'll need one of those.Industrial Designer: Uh uh yeah, I think we can do it all with simple {disfmarker} Just checking that. Yeah, simple,'cause we've just got push buttons, so we can do it all with simple which is the ch should be the yeah, we're finished.Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: shall I take your uh powerProject Manager: Oh sorry.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Try again.Marketing: Okay. This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation, and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trends introduced by the marketing department. So, this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise. So I'm going to go and use the whiteboard, and I've made a list of criteria to look at, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing, but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false, going over these different criteria, so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board. Okay. So um fancy, technologically innovative, easy to use, trendy, buttons, excess buttons, good buttons, ugly, sellable, and other. And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms, because these are things that um have been brought up, some of them seem rather close,User Interface: Yeah, what about price, is that gonna go on there as well Price of materials.Marketing: like they overlap. Mm, yeah, price.Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: We'll put price up at the top.User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that we actually know anything about it,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but we can we can pretend.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well we will soon, unfortunately.Marketing: Um Okay, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Come on.Marketing: Did you say {gap}Project Manager: No, {gap}.Marketing: Uh okay, so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancyUser Interface: It depends what what you mean by fancy really,'cause when I think it should be pretty cheap to develop. We haven't got a lot of expensive components in there.Project Manager: Yes, the instinct says true.Marketing: Okay. So true one or should I go to two or threeIndustrial Designer: I'd put it at one I think, but {disfmarker} I dunno, what do you {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say maybe a two,Marketing: Okay.User Interface:'cause we still {disfmarker} we need to uh get somebody in who is good with the programming for the menus and things.Industrial Designer: Yeah, true,User Interface: I mean it's not just like {disfmarker} I mean it's not like ev you know, on a normal chunky remote every button res I mean means something different,Project Manager: Yeah, that's not a cheap thing to get.Industrial Designer: it might be the {disfmarker} yeah, yeah, true. True.User Interface: whereas this one has only got the four buttons and they all {disfmarker} they mean everything, depending on what menu you're in.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's a good point.User Interface: {gap} uh we need somebody to develop that.Marketing: Um other Anything else you guys can thing of And I'm gonna actually change a couple of these so then I'm gonna {disfmarker} instead of ugly I'm gonna say it's attractive and then make that true, so that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing:'cause I have to do an average. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right.Marketing: And then um excess buttons.User Interface: Just putting no excess buttons.Marketing: Exactly. Wow we're doing really well. Yeah, be you know,User Interface: As for {disfmarker}Marketing: so it doesn't ruin the polarity.User Interface: see if we're technologically innovative, I'd say it is quite innovative, because there aren't really many that have this menu idea instead of all the extra buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: I mean I know we're not doing anything involving internet or speech recognition but but we {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah well,'cause I mean it's so hard to describe what you mean just with words and pointing at photographs and saying, well we quite want this, but imagine it rounder. So much better just to go and, you know, this is it, this is what we want. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} So, we went over all those things and we're satisfied with all the above.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Um did we find any new ideasMarketing: I think with the marketing element of uh fruit shaped I I mean I {disfmarker} that really opened my eyes.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound} Spongy.Marketing: I I only speak for myself though.User Interface: And I'd never heard of the kinetic energy before,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: so. Good work as a design team,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah, I think we're a good team actually.User Interface: because we {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'm not sure all the wires are really great though.Project Manager: So we actually worked well as a group.Industrial Designer: I thought so.Project Manager: Right. Are the costs within the budget Yes.User Interface: Oh yes.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: Is the project evaluatedIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: I can give you a number,Industrial Designer: hang on, Oh we haven't heard. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: um it's uh {disfmarker} the average evaluation score is one point eight eight, so it means w you know, I can I can spell it out. There were six true or ones, four um pardon me, two s almost true or close to true, so that was four points, and then uh one false, seven points, so seventeen divided by nine {disfmarker} we're between one and two. I would say that's ex excellent in terms of uh ho how much we adhere to the ideals of the

What did User Interface think about the material of the remote control

User Interface tried to envisioned the remote control in well molded and hard smooth plastic. User Interface also suggested another possibility, which was a more spongy rubber cover with spongy buttons. Which option to choose would depend on cost restraints.

yeah, we're finished.Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: shall I take your uh powerProject Manager: Oh sorry.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Try again.Marketing: Okay. This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation, and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trends introduced by the marketing department. So, this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise. So I'm going to go and use the whiteboard, and I've made a list of criteria to look at, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing, but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false, going over these different criteria, so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board. Okay. So um fancy, technologically innovative, easy to use, trendy, buttons, excess buttons, good buttons, ugly, sellable, and other. And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms, because these are things that um have been brought up, some of them seem rather close,User Interface: Yeah, what about price, is that gonna go on there as well Price of materials.Marketing: like they overlap. Mm, yeah, price.Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: We'll put price up at the top.User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that we actually know anything about it,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but we can we can pretend.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well we will soon, unfortunately.Marketing: Um Okay, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Come on.Marketing: Did you say {gap}Project Manager: No, {gap}.Marketing: Uh okay, so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancyUser Interface: It depends what what you mean by fancy really,'cause when I think thing for it, because then it'd just be rigid.Marketing: I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: Yeah, {gap} we really like we really like that design,Marketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean it looks just like a logo, that arrangement of the keys. Like a c like a compass point, you know,Marketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.User Interface: just up, down, left and right, and we think we could make that quite a good feature. And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel, {vocalsound} but better.Marketing: Yeah. But it's also like texting,User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,Marketing: you don't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of, mobile phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was try I was thinking, moving your thumb like this, what does that remind me ofIndustrial Designer: And it's a very simple design,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: It's texting.Industrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong, the components are cheap to make.Marketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different.User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: You know, I I d I have several {disfmarker} four remotes, and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: you know, this is really identifiable.User Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we do need to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of, you know, text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option.Project Manager: Okay. The next item is evaluation.Marketing: No, okay.Project Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished.User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah well,'cause I mean it's so hard to describe what you mean just with words and pointing at photographs and saying, well we quite want this, but imagine it rounder. So much better just to go and, you know, this is it, this is what we want. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} So, we went over all those things and we're satisfied with all the above.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Um did we find any new ideasMarketing: I think with the marketing element of uh fruit shaped I I mean I {disfmarker} that really opened my eyes.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound} Spongy.Marketing: I I only speak for myself though.User Interface: And I'd never heard of the kinetic energy before,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: so. Good work as a design team,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah, I think we're a good team actually.User Interface: because we {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'm not sure all the wires are really great though.Project Manager: So we actually worked well as a group.Industrial Designer: I thought so.Project Manager: Right. Are the costs within the budget Yes.User Interface: Oh yes.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: Is the project evaluatedIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: I can give you a number,Industrial Designer: hang on, Oh we haven't heard. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: um it's uh {disfmarker} the average evaluation score is one point eight eight, so it means w you know, I can I can spell it out. There were six true or ones, four um pardon me, two s almost true or close to true, so that was four points, and then uh one false, seven points, so seventeen divided by nine {disfmarker} we're between one and two. I would say that's ex excellent in terms of uh ho how much we adhere to the ideals of the are at the upper end of the push button market. {vocalsound}Marketing: Or L_C_D_. Yeah. Well if you g uh let me know if if any of these {disfmarker} um if you if you all can think of any other um thing to change here {disfmarker} if you th if you think I should change the innovative or add other features. If not I'll average those.Project Manager: I think we're good.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay. Mm.Project Manager: Okay. We're a little over halfway through the meetingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the next big thing is the finance. Okay.Marketing: Um okay, how about if I uh pass this back to youProject Manager: Yep.Marketing: and I'll uh figure out the average here.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Thank you for everyone's help with that.Project Manager: Right. And as you can see it says the same thing, it had not lost itself, thank Goodness. And we're going to raise what's called a sp a spreadsheet that they provided to me. Um and it says fill in the number of components you plan to use in your device.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hand dynamo, battery, kinetic, solar cells. Okay.User Interface: Well, just kinetic then, {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Um what's a hand dynamoIndustrial Designer: That was the crank, wind-up crank on the side. {vocalsound}User Interface: It's the wind-up.Project Manager: OhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: shoot, forget that. Kinetic is um {disfmarker} and how many of those will we need per {disfmarker} we only need one.Industrial Designer: Just one.Project Manager: Okay. Electronic simple chip on print, and we'll need one of those.Industrial Designer: Uh uh yeah, I think we can do it all with simple {disfmarker} Just checking that. Yeah, simple,'cause we've just got push buttons, so we can do it all with simple which is the ch should be the of fancy, I think of it's got lots of extra sort of fripperies and, you know, like baroque curliness and {disfmarker} whichMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.User Interface: I'd call these quite uh minimalist,Industrial Designer: Yes, a plain, simple, clean design.User Interface: simple and plain, but I mean I do see what {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it is heavily reliant on appearance instead of pure functionality,Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: so in that respect it is quite fancy.Marketing: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah, so in that respect {disfmarker} I think we'll go with that respect.User Interface: I think just maybe we need a different word other than fancy, I'd say maybe aesthetic.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well we have got s trendy further down,Project Manager: Elegant.Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Elegant.Marketing: Elegant.Industrial Designer: Elegant, I don't know if I'd call them elegant.Marketing: Yeah, no these aren't the exact terms that the um {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} like stylish or aesthetic.Industrial Designer: Stylish, yeah.Marketing: Yeah. Elegant. We're gon let's use elegant, although the the the people, the word on the street is is {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Fancy.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} N that {disfmarker} umUser Interface: Did you just break the penProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: yeah uh {disfmarker} the uh {disfmarker} is fancy. So let's let's take it to the next level.User Interface: Well d we'll just call it fancy then.Marketing: Well okay, so in terms of elegant, fancy. we'll call it E_F_ um, do we do we think that perhaps {disfmarker} and maybe we should say the yellow Should we go with the yellow in terms of {disfmarker} I think that's a really superior {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, I think we n we need to {disfmarker}Marketing: they're both {disfmarker}User Interface: they're both yellow with black buttons, it's just that we didn't have any more dough to represent uh that,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: but

Why did Marketing and Industrial Designer appreciate the design of keys when talking about the propotype presentation about the buttons and main features of the remote control

They argued that the arrangement of the keys looked like a logo, a compass point, or texting. The simple but different design could be a good feature of the remote control, and made it pop up in common remote controls.

yeah, we're finished.Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: shall I take your uh powerProject Manager: Oh sorry.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Try again.Marketing: Okay. This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation, and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trends introduced by the marketing department. So, this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise. So I'm going to go and use the whiteboard, and I've made a list of criteria to look at, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing, but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false, going over these different criteria, so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board. Okay. So um fancy, technologically innovative, easy to use, trendy, buttons, excess buttons, good buttons, ugly, sellable, and other. And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms, because these are things that um have been brought up, some of them seem rather close,User Interface: Yeah, what about price, is that gonna go on there as well Price of materials.Marketing: like they overlap. Mm, yeah, price.Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: We'll put price up at the top.User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that we actually know anything about it,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but we can we can pretend.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well we will soon, unfortunately.Marketing: Um Okay, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Come on.Marketing: Did you say {gap}Project Manager: No, {gap}.Marketing: Uh okay, so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancyUser Interface: It depends what what you mean by fancy really,'cause when I think are at the upper end of the push button market. {vocalsound}Marketing: Or L_C_D_. Yeah. Well if you g uh let me know if if any of these {disfmarker} um if you if you all can think of any other um thing to change here {disfmarker} if you th if you think I should change the innovative or add other features. If not I'll average those.Project Manager: I think we're good.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay. Mm.Project Manager: Okay. We're a little over halfway through the meetingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the next big thing is the finance. Okay.Marketing: Um okay, how about if I uh pass this back to youProject Manager: Yep.Marketing: and I'll uh figure out the average here.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Thank you for everyone's help with that.Project Manager: Right. And as you can see it says the same thing, it had not lost itself, thank Goodness. And we're going to raise what's called a sp a spreadsheet that they provided to me. Um and it says fill in the number of components you plan to use in your device.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hand dynamo, battery, kinetic, solar cells. Okay.User Interface: Well, just kinetic then, {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Um what's a hand dynamoIndustrial Designer: That was the crank, wind-up crank on the side. {vocalsound}User Interface: It's the wind-up.Project Manager: OhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: shoot, forget that. Kinetic is um {disfmarker} and how many of those will we need per {disfmarker} we only need one.Industrial Designer: Just one.Project Manager: Okay. Electronic simple chip on print, and we'll need one of those.Industrial Designer: Uh uh yeah, I think we can do it all with simple {disfmarker} Just checking that. Yeah, simple,'cause we've just got push buttons, so we can do it all with simple which is the ch should be the thing for it, because then it'd just be rigid.Marketing: I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: Yeah, {gap} we really like we really like that design,Marketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean it looks just like a logo, that arrangement of the keys. Like a c like a compass point, you know,Marketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.User Interface: just up, down, left and right, and we think we could make that quite a good feature. And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel, {vocalsound} but better.Marketing: Yeah. But it's also like texting,User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,Marketing: you don't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of, mobile phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was try I was thinking, moving your thumb like this, what does that remind me ofIndustrial Designer: And it's a very simple design,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: It's texting.Industrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong, the components are cheap to make.Marketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different.User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: You know, I I d I have several {disfmarker} four remotes, and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: you know, this is really identifiable.User Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we do need to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of, you know, text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option.Project Manager: Okay. The next item is evaluation.Marketing: No, okay.Project Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished.User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh it should be pretty cheap to develop. We haven't got a lot of expensive components in there.Project Manager: Yes, the instinct says true.Marketing: Okay. So true one or should I go to two or threeIndustrial Designer: I'd put it at one I think, but {disfmarker} I dunno, what do you {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say maybe a two,Marketing: Okay.User Interface:'cause we still {disfmarker} we need to uh get somebody in who is good with the programming for the menus and things.Industrial Designer: Yeah, true,User Interface: I mean it's not just like {disfmarker} I mean it's not like ev you know, on a normal chunky remote every button res I mean means something different,Project Manager: Yeah, that's not a cheap thing to get.Industrial Designer: it might be the {disfmarker} yeah, yeah, true. True.User Interface: whereas this one has only got the four buttons and they all {disfmarker} they mean everything, depending on what menu you're in.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's a good point.User Interface: {gap} uh we need somebody to develop that.Marketing: Um other Anything else you guys can thing of And I'm gonna actually change a couple of these so then I'm gonna {disfmarker} instead of ugly I'm gonna say it's attractive and then make that true, so that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing:'cause I have to do an average. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right.Marketing: And then um excess buttons.User Interface: Just putting no excess buttons.Marketing: Exactly. Wow we're doing really well. Yeah, be you know,User Interface: As for {disfmarker}Marketing: so it doesn't ruin the polarity.User Interface: see if we're technologically innovative, I'd say it is quite innovative, because there aren't really many that have this menu idea instead of all the extra buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: I mean I know we're not doing anything involving internet or speech recognition but but we {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah well,'cause I mean it's so hard to describe what you mean just with words and pointing at photographs and saying, well we quite want this, but imagine it rounder. So much better just to go and, you know, this is it, this is what we want. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} So, we went over all those things and we're satisfied with all the above.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Um did we find any new ideasMarketing: I think with the marketing element of uh fruit shaped I I mean I {disfmarker} that really opened my eyes.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound} Spongy.Marketing: I I only speak for myself though.User Interface: And I'd never heard of the kinetic energy before,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: so. Good work as a design team,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah, I think we're a good team actually.User Interface: because we {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'm not sure all the wires are really great though.Project Manager: So we actually worked well as a group.Industrial Designer: I thought so.Project Manager: Right. Are the costs within the budget Yes.User Interface: Oh yes.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: Is the project evaluatedIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: I can give you a number,Industrial Designer: hang on, Oh we haven't heard. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: um it's uh {disfmarker} the average evaluation score is one point eight eight, so it means w you know, I can I can spell it out. There were six true or ones, four um pardon me, two s almost true or close to true, so that was four points, and then uh one false, seven points, so seventeen divided by nine {disfmarker} we're between one and two. I would say that's ex excellent in terms of uh ho how much we adhere to the ideals of the

Summarize the discussion about an interactive evaluation in terms of the user requiremnets and the hot trends.

The group made an interactive evaluation of the remote control in terms of the user requirements and the trends. They mainly focused on the evaluation of price, fancy, color and energy. They picked another word, elegant, other than fancy to describe to design of the new remote control. The group failed to make a choice between the shape of banana and chunk, but they reached a consensus to use kinetic as the source of energy.

yeah, we're finished.Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: shall I take your uh powerProject Manager: Oh sorry.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Try again.Marketing: Okay. This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation, and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trends introduced by the marketing department. So, this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise. So I'm going to go and use the whiteboard, and I've made a list of criteria to look at, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing, but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false, going over these different criteria, so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board. Okay. So um fancy, technologically innovative, easy to use, trendy, buttons, excess buttons, good buttons, ugly, sellable, and other. And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms, because these are things that um have been brought up, some of them seem rather close,User Interface: Yeah, what about price, is that gonna go on there as well Price of materials.Marketing: like they overlap. Mm, yeah, price.Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: We'll put price up at the top.User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that we actually know anything about it,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but we can we can pretend.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well we will soon, unfortunately.Marketing: Um Okay, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Come on.Marketing: Did you say {gap}Project Manager: No, {gap}.Marketing: Uh okay, so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancyUser Interface: It depends what what you mean by fancy really,'cause when I think are at the upper end of the push button market. {vocalsound}Marketing: Or L_C_D_. Yeah. Well if you g uh let me know if if any of these {disfmarker} um if you if you all can think of any other um thing to change here {disfmarker} if you th if you think I should change the innovative or add other features. If not I'll average those.Project Manager: I think we're good.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay. Mm.Project Manager: Okay. We're a little over halfway through the meetingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the next big thing is the finance. Okay.Marketing: Um okay, how about if I uh pass this back to youProject Manager: Yep.Marketing: and I'll uh figure out the average here.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Thank you for everyone's help with that.Project Manager: Right. And as you can see it says the same thing, it had not lost itself, thank Goodness. And we're going to raise what's called a sp a spreadsheet that they provided to me. Um and it says fill in the number of components you plan to use in your device.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hand dynamo, battery, kinetic, solar cells. Okay.User Interface: Well, just kinetic then, {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Um what's a hand dynamoIndustrial Designer: That was the crank, wind-up crank on the side. {vocalsound}User Interface: It's the wind-up.Project Manager: OhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: shoot, forget that. Kinetic is um {disfmarker} and how many of those will we need per {disfmarker} we only need one.Industrial Designer: Just one.Project Manager: Okay. Electronic simple chip on print, and we'll need one of those.Industrial Designer: Uh uh yeah, I think we can do it all with simple {disfmarker} Just checking that. Yeah, simple,'cause we've just got push buttons, so we can do it all with simple which is the ch should be the thing for it, because then it'd just be rigid.Marketing: I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: Yeah, {gap} we really like we really like that design,Marketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean it looks just like a logo, that arrangement of the keys. Like a c like a compass point, you know,Marketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.User Interface: just up, down, left and right, and we think we could make that quite a good feature. And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel, {vocalsound} but better.Marketing: Yeah. But it's also like texting,User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,Marketing: you don't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of, mobile phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was try I was thinking, moving your thumb like this, what does that remind me ofIndustrial Designer: And it's a very simple design,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: It's texting.Industrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong, the components are cheap to make.Marketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different.User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: You know, I I d I have several {disfmarker} four remotes, and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: you know, this is really identifiable.User Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we do need to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of, you know, text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option.Project Manager: Okay. The next item is evaluation.Marketing: No, okay.Project Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished.User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh it should be pretty cheap to develop. We haven't got a lot of expensive components in there.Project Manager: Yes, the instinct says true.Marketing: Okay. So true one or should I go to two or threeIndustrial Designer: I'd put it at one I think, but {disfmarker} I dunno, what do you {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say maybe a two,Marketing: Okay.User Interface:'cause we still {disfmarker} we need to uh get somebody in who is good with the programming for the menus and things.Industrial Designer: Yeah, true,User Interface: I mean it's not just like {disfmarker} I mean it's not like ev you know, on a normal chunky remote every button res I mean means something different,Project Manager: Yeah, that's not a cheap thing to get.Industrial Designer: it might be the {disfmarker} yeah, yeah, true. True.User Interface: whereas this one has only got the four buttons and they all {disfmarker} they mean everything, depending on what menu you're in.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's a good point.User Interface: {gap} uh we need somebody to develop that.Marketing: Um other Anything else you guys can thing of And I'm gonna actually change a couple of these so then I'm gonna {disfmarker} instead of ugly I'm gonna say it's attractive and then make that true, so that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing:'cause I have to do an average. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right.Marketing: And then um excess buttons.User Interface: Just putting no excess buttons.Marketing: Exactly. Wow we're doing really well. Yeah, be you know,User Interface: As for {disfmarker}Marketing: so it doesn't ruin the polarity.User Interface: see if we're technologically innovative, I'd say it is quite innovative, because there aren't really many that have this menu idea instead of all the extra buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: I mean I know we're not doing anything involving internet or speech recognition but but we of fancy, I think of it's got lots of extra sort of fripperies and, you know, like baroque curliness and {disfmarker} whichMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.User Interface: I'd call these quite uh minimalist,Industrial Designer: Yes, a plain, simple, clean design.User Interface: simple and plain, but I mean I do see what {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it is heavily reliant on appearance instead of pure functionality,Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: so in that respect it is quite fancy.Marketing: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah, so in that respect {disfmarker} I think we'll go with that respect.User Interface: I think just maybe we need a different word other than fancy, I'd say maybe aesthetic.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well we have got s trendy further down,Project Manager: Elegant.Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Elegant.Marketing: Elegant.Industrial Designer: Elegant, I don't know if I'd call them elegant.Marketing: Yeah, no these aren't the exact terms that the um {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} like stylish or aesthetic.Industrial Designer: Stylish, yeah.Marketing: Yeah. Elegant. We're gon let's use elegant, although the the the people, the word on the street is is {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Fancy.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} N that {disfmarker} umUser Interface: Did you just break the penProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: yeah uh {disfmarker} the uh {disfmarker} is fancy. So let's let's take it to the next level.User Interface: Well d we'll just call it fancy then.Marketing: Well okay, so in terms of elegant, fancy. we'll call it E_F_ um, do we do we think that perhaps {disfmarker} and maybe we should say the yellow Should we go with the yellow in terms of {disfmarker} I think that's a really superior {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, I think we n we need to {disfmarker}Marketing: they're both {disfmarker}User Interface: they're both yellow with black buttons, it's just that we didn't have any more dough to represent uh that,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: but

What did the group think about the deisgn when talking about the evaluation of the remote control

The remote control was quite fancy in the respect of appearance. The group picked the word elegant from aesthetic, trendy, elegant and stylish when User Interface suggested using a different word to describe the remote control. Still, they all agreed that fancy was more appropriate than elegant.

yeah, we're finished.Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: shall I take your uh powerProject Manager: Oh sorry.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Try again.Marketing: Okay. This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation, and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trends introduced by the marketing department. So, this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise. So I'm going to go and use the whiteboard, and I've made a list of criteria to look at, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing, but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false, going over these different criteria, so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board. Okay. So um fancy, technologically innovative, easy to use, trendy, buttons, excess buttons, good buttons, ugly, sellable, and other. And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms, because these are things that um have been brought up, some of them seem rather close,User Interface: Yeah, what about price, is that gonna go on there as well Price of materials.Marketing: like they overlap. Mm, yeah, price.Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: We'll put price up at the top.User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that we actually know anything about it,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but we can we can pretend.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well we will soon, unfortunately.Marketing: Um Okay, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Come on.Marketing: Did you say {gap}Project Manager: No, {gap}.Marketing: Uh okay, so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancyUser Interface: It depends what what you mean by fancy really,'cause when I think thing for it, because then it'd just be rigid.Marketing: I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: Yeah, {gap} we really like we really like that design,Marketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean it looks just like a logo, that arrangement of the keys. Like a c like a compass point, you know,Marketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.User Interface: just up, down, left and right, and we think we could make that quite a good feature. And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel, {vocalsound} but better.Marketing: Yeah. But it's also like texting,User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,Marketing: you don't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of, mobile phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was try I was thinking, moving your thumb like this, what does that remind me ofIndustrial Designer: And it's a very simple design,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: It's texting.Industrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong, the components are cheap to make.Marketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different.User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: You know, I I d I have several {disfmarker} four remotes, and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: you know, this is really identifiable.User Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we do need to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of, you know, text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option.Project Manager: Okay. The next item is evaluation.Marketing: No, okay.Project Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished.User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh are at the upper end of the push button market. {vocalsound}Marketing: Or L_C_D_. Yeah. Well if you g uh let me know if if any of these {disfmarker} um if you if you all can think of any other um thing to change here {disfmarker} if you th if you think I should change the innovative or add other features. If not I'll average those.Project Manager: I think we're good.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay. Mm.Project Manager: Okay. We're a little over halfway through the meetingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the next big thing is the finance. Okay.Marketing: Um okay, how about if I uh pass this back to youProject Manager: Yep.Marketing: and I'll uh figure out the average here.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Thank you for everyone's help with that.Project Manager: Right. And as you can see it says the same thing, it had not lost itself, thank Goodness. And we're going to raise what's called a sp a spreadsheet that they provided to me. Um and it says fill in the number of components you plan to use in your device.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hand dynamo, battery, kinetic, solar cells. Okay.User Interface: Well, just kinetic then, {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Um what's a hand dynamoIndustrial Designer: That was the crank, wind-up crank on the side. {vocalsound}User Interface: It's the wind-up.Project Manager: OhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: shoot, forget that. Kinetic is um {disfmarker} and how many of those will we need per {disfmarker} we only need one.Industrial Designer: Just one.Project Manager: Okay. Electronic simple chip on print, and we'll need one of those.Industrial Designer: Uh uh yeah, I think we can do it all with simple {disfmarker} Just checking that. Yeah, simple,'cause we've just got push buttons, so we can do it all with simple which is the ch should be the {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah well,'cause I mean it's so hard to describe what you mean just with words and pointing at photographs and saying, well we quite want this, but imagine it rounder. So much better just to go and, you know, this is it, this is what we want. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} So, we went over all those things and we're satisfied with all the above.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Um did we find any new ideasMarketing: I think with the marketing element of uh fruit shaped I I mean I {disfmarker} that really opened my eyes.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound} Spongy.Marketing: I I only speak for myself though.User Interface: And I'd never heard of the kinetic energy before,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: so. Good work as a design team,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah, I think we're a good team actually.User Interface: because we {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'm not sure all the wires are really great though.Project Manager: So we actually worked well as a group.Industrial Designer: I thought so.Project Manager: Right. Are the costs within the budget Yes.User Interface: Oh yes.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: Is the project evaluatedIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: I can give you a number,Industrial Designer: hang on, Oh we haven't heard. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: um it's uh {disfmarker} the average evaluation score is one point eight eight, so it means w you know, I can I can spell it out. There were six true or ones, four um pardon me, two s almost true or close to true, so that was four points, and then uh one false, seven points, so seventeen divided by nine {disfmarker} we're between one and two. I would say that's ex excellent in terms of uh ho how much we adhere to the ideals of the of fancy, I think of it's got lots of extra sort of fripperies and, you know, like baroque curliness and {disfmarker} whichMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.User Interface: I'd call these quite uh minimalist,Industrial Designer: Yes, a plain, simple, clean design.User Interface: simple and plain, but I mean I do see what {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it is heavily reliant on appearance instead of pure functionality,Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: so in that respect it is quite fancy.Marketing: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah, so in that respect {disfmarker} I think we'll go with that respect.User Interface: I think just maybe we need a different word other than fancy, I'd say maybe aesthetic.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well we have got s trendy further down,Project Manager: Elegant.Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Elegant.Marketing: Elegant.Industrial Designer: Elegant, I don't know if I'd call them elegant.Marketing: Yeah, no these aren't the exact terms that the um {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} like stylish or aesthetic.Industrial Designer: Stylish, yeah.Marketing: Yeah. Elegant. We're gon let's use elegant, although the the the people, the word on the street is is {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Fancy.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} N that {disfmarker} umUser Interface: Did you just break the penProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: yeah uh {disfmarker} the uh {disfmarker} is fancy. So let's let's take it to the next level.User Interface: Well d we'll just call it fancy then.Marketing: Well okay, so in terms of elegant, fancy. we'll call it E_F_ um, do we do we think that perhaps {disfmarker} and maybe we should say the yellow Should we go with the yellow in terms of {disfmarker} I think that's a really superior {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, I think we n we need to {disfmarker}Marketing: they're both {disfmarker}User Interface: they're both yellow with black buttons, it's just that we didn't have any more dough to represent uh that,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: but

Why did User Interface disagree with Industrial Designer with the price when talking about the interactive evaluation in terms of the user requiremnets and the hot trends

Industrial Designer thought the remote control would be cheap to develop because they didn't use any expensive components. But User Interface argued that it would cost a lot to find someone with good technology of programming and develop the innovative user interface.

yeah, we're finished.Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: shall I take your uh powerProject Manager: Oh sorry.Marketing: Oh.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Try again.Marketing: Okay. This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation, and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trends introduced by the marketing department. So, this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise. So I'm going to go and use the whiteboard, and I've made a list of criteria to look at, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing, but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false, going over these different criteria, so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board. Okay. So um fancy, technologically innovative, easy to use, trendy, buttons, excess buttons, good buttons, ugly, sellable, and other. And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms, because these are things that um have been brought up, some of them seem rather close,User Interface: Yeah, what about price, is that gonna go on there as well Price of materials.Marketing: like they overlap. Mm, yeah, price.Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: We'll put price up at the top.User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that we actually know anything about it,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but we can we can pretend.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well we will soon, unfortunately.Marketing: Um Okay, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Come on.Marketing: Did you say {gap}Project Manager: No, {gap}.Marketing: Uh okay, so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancyUser Interface: It depends what what you mean by fancy really,'cause when I think are at the upper end of the push button market. {vocalsound}Marketing: Or L_C_D_. Yeah. Well if you g uh let me know if if any of these {disfmarker} um if you if you all can think of any other um thing to change here {disfmarker} if you th if you think I should change the innovative or add other features. If not I'll average those.Project Manager: I think we're good.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay. Mm.Project Manager: Okay. We're a little over halfway through the meetingMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the next big thing is the finance. Okay.Marketing: Um okay, how about if I uh pass this back to youProject Manager: Yep.Marketing: and I'll uh figure out the average here.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Thank you for everyone's help with that.Project Manager: Right. And as you can see it says the same thing, it had not lost itself, thank Goodness. And we're going to raise what's called a sp a spreadsheet that they provided to me. Um and it says fill in the number of components you plan to use in your device.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hand dynamo, battery, kinetic, solar cells. Okay.User Interface: Well, just kinetic then, {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Um what's a hand dynamoIndustrial Designer: That was the crank, wind-up crank on the side. {vocalsound}User Interface: It's the wind-up.Project Manager: OhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: shoot, forget that. Kinetic is um {disfmarker} and how many of those will we need per {disfmarker} we only need one.Industrial Designer: Just one.Project Manager: Okay. Electronic simple chip on print, and we'll need one of those.Industrial Designer: Uh uh yeah, I think we can do it all with simple {disfmarker} Just checking that. Yeah, simple,'cause we've just got push buttons, so we can do it all with simple which is the ch should be the thing for it, because then it'd just be rigid.Marketing: I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: Yeah, {gap} we really like we really like that design,Marketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean it looks just like a logo, that arrangement of the keys. Like a c like a compass point, you know,Marketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm.User Interface: just up, down, left and right, and we think we could make that quite a good feature. And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel, {vocalsound} but better.Marketing: Yeah. But it's also like texting,User Interface: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,Marketing: you don't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of, mobile phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was try I was thinking, moving your thumb like this, what does that remind me ofIndustrial Designer: And it's a very simple design,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: It's texting.Industrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong, the components are cheap to make.Marketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different.User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: You know, I I d I have several {disfmarker} four remotes, and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: you know, this is really identifiable.User Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we do need to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of, you know, text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option.Project Manager: Okay. The next item is evaluation.Marketing: No, okay.Project Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished.User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah well,'cause I mean it's so hard to describe what you mean just with words and pointing at photographs and saying, well we quite want this, but imagine it rounder. So much better just to go and, you know, this is it, this is what we want. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} So, we went over all those things and we're satisfied with all the above.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Um did we find any new ideasMarketing: I think with the marketing element of uh fruit shaped I I mean I {disfmarker} that really opened my eyes.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound} Spongy.Marketing: I I only speak for myself though.User Interface: And I'd never heard of the kinetic energy before,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: so. Good work as a design team,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah, I think we're a good team actually.User Interface: because we {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'm not sure all the wires are really great though.Project Manager: So we actually worked well as a group.Industrial Designer: I thought so.Project Manager: Right. Are the costs within the budget Yes.User Interface: Oh yes.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: Is the project evaluatedIndustrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: I can give you a number,Industrial Designer: hang on, Oh we haven't heard. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: um it's uh {disfmarker} the average evaluation score is one point eight eight, so it means w you know, I can I can spell it out. There were six true or ones, four um pardon me, two s almost true or close to true, so that was four points, and then uh one false, seven points, so seventeen divided by nine {disfmarker} we're between one and two. I would say that's ex excellent in terms of uh ho how much we adhere to the ideals of the it should be pretty cheap to develop. We haven't got a lot of expensive components in there.Project Manager: Yes, the instinct says true.Marketing: Okay. So true one or should I go to two or threeIndustrial Designer: I'd put it at one I think, but {disfmarker} I dunno, what do you {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say maybe a two,Marketing: Okay.User Interface:'cause we still {disfmarker} we need to uh get somebody in who is good with the programming for the menus and things.Industrial Designer: Yeah, true,User Interface: I mean it's not just like {disfmarker} I mean it's not like ev you know, on a normal chunky remote every button res I mean means something different,Project Manager: Yeah, that's not a cheap thing to get.Industrial Designer: it might be the {disfmarker} yeah, yeah, true. True.User Interface: whereas this one has only got the four buttons and they all {disfmarker} they mean everything, depending on what menu you're in.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's a good point.User Interface: {gap} uh we need somebody to develop that.Marketing: Um other Anything else you guys can thing of And I'm gonna actually change a couple of these so then I'm gonna {disfmarker} instead of ugly I'm gonna say it's attractive and then make that true, so that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing:'cause I have to do an average. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right.Marketing: And then um excess buttons.User Interface: Just putting no excess buttons.Marketing: Exactly. Wow we're doing really well. Yeah, be you know,User Interface: As for {disfmarker}Marketing: so it doesn't ruin the polarity.User Interface: see if we're technologically innovative, I'd say it is quite innovative, because there aren't really many that have this menu idea instead of all the extra buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: I mean I know we're not doing anything involving internet or speech recognition but but we

Summarize the whole meeting.

After Project Manager first went over the previous meeting and summarized the meeting agenda, Inudstrial Designer started the prototype presentation of the remote control. The remote control should be curved with scroll and push buttons, made by smooth plastic or spongy rubber. Marketing presented the evaluation criteria of the remote control in terms of the user requirements and the trends. The remote control shall be fancy because it was heavily reliant on appearance instead of pure functionality. Finally, they confirmed the components they planned to use under the restrict of finance.

constructions.Grad C: Yeah. {comment} If the {disfmarker} if your {disfmarker} if your brain was totally non - deterministic, then perhaps there's a way to get, uh, infin an infinite number of constructions that you'd have to worry about.Grad A: But, I mean, in the {nonvocalsound} practical sense, it's impossible.Grad C: Right. Cuz if we have a fixed number of neurons {disfmarker}Grad A: Yeah.Grad C: So the best - case scenario would be the number of constructions {disfmarker} or, the worst - case scenario is the number of constructions equals the number of neurons.Grad A: Well, two to the power of the number of neurons.Grad C: Right. But still finite.Grad B: OK.Grad C: No, wait. Not necessarily, is it We can end the {pause} meeting. I just {disfmarker} Can't you use different var different levels of activation across, uh {disfmarker} lots of different neurons, to specify different valuesGrad B: Mm - hmm.Grad A: Um, yeah, but there's, like, a certain level of {disfmarker}Grad C: There's a bandwidth issue,Grad A: Bandw - Yeah, so you can't do better than something.Grad C: right Yeah.Grad B: Turn off the mikes. Otherwise it gets really tough for the tr glory. But, uh, i do you guys have any vacation plans, because I myself am going to be, um, gone, but this is actually not really important. Just this weekend we're going camping.Grad C: Yeah, I'm wanna be this {disfmarker} gone this weekend, too.Grad B: Ah. But we're all going to be here on Tuesday again Looks like itGrad D: Yeah.Grad B: OK, then. Let's meet {disfmarker} meet again next Tuesday. And, um, finish up this Bayes - net. And once we have finished it, I guess we can, um {disfmarker} and that's going to be more just you and me, because Bhaskara is doing probabilistic, recursive, structured, object - oriented, uh,Grad C: Killing machines!Grad B: reasoning machines.Grad A: Yes.Grad B: And, um {disfmarker}Grad C: Killing, reasoning. What's the differenceGrad D: Wait. So you're saying, next Tuesday, is it the whole group meeting, or just us three working on it, or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}Grad B: Uh. The whole group. And we present our results, our final,Grad D: OK.Grad B: definite {disfmarker}Grad D: So, when you were saying we {pause} need to do a re - run of, like {disfmarker}Grad A: h WhatGrad D: What {disfmarker} Like, just working out the rest of the {disfmarker}Grad B: Yeah. We should do this th the upcoming days.Grad D: This weekGrad B: So, this week, yeah.Grad C: When you say," the whole group" , you mean {pause} the four of us, and KeithGrad D: OK.Grad B: And, Ami might.Grad C: Ami might be here, and it's possible that Nancy'll be hereGrad B: Yep.Grad C: So, yeah.Grad B: Because, th you know, once we have the belief - net done {disfmarker}Grad C: You're just gonna have to explain it to me, then, on Tuesday, how it's all gonna work out. You know.Grad B: We will. we could have {disfmarker} I mea or uh we could put all of the all of the r information that could also be relevant {pause} into the Where - Is node answerGrad B: Mm - hmm. Yep.Grad C: node thing stuff. And uh {disfmarker}Grad D: OK.Grad B: I mean {disfmarker} Let's not forget we're gonna get some very strong {pause} input from {pause} these sub dis from these discourse things, right So." Tell me the location of X." Nuh Or" Where is X located at" Grad C: We uGrad B: NuhGrad C: Yeah, I know, but the Bayes - net would be able to {disfmarker} The weights on the {disfmarker} on the nodes in the Bayes - net would be able to do all that,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: wouldn't it Here's a k Oh! Oh, I'll wait until you're {pause} plugged in. Oh, don't sit there. Sit here. You know how you don't like that one. It's OK. That's the weird one. That's the one that's painful. That hurts. It hurts so bad. I'm h I'm happy that they're recording that. That headphone. The headphone {pause} that you have to put on backwards, with the little {disfmarker} little thing {disfmarker} and the little {disfmarker} little foam block on it It's a painful, painful microphone.Grad B: I think it's th called" the Crown" .Grad C: The crownGrad D: WhatGrad B: Yeah, versus" the Sony" .Grad A: The Crown Is that the actual name OK.Grad B: Mm - hmm. The manufacturer.Grad C: I don't see a manufacturer on it.Grad B: You wGrad C: Oh, wait, here it is. h This thingy. Yeah, it's" The Crown" . The crown of pain!Grad A: Yes.Grad B: You're on - lineGrad C: Are you {disfmarker} are your mike o Is your mike onGrad A: always gonna get the whole list of values and their posterior probabilities. And now we need an expert system or belief - net or something that interprets that, that looks at all the values and says," The winner is Timing. Now, go there." " Uh, go there, Timing, now." Or," The winner is Info - on, Function - Off." So, he wants to know {pause} something about it, and what it does. Nuh Uh, regardless of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of the input. Wh - RegardleGrad C: Yeah, but But how does the expert {disfmarker} but how does the expert system know {disfmarker} how who which one to declare the winner, if it doesn't know the question it is, and how that question should be answeredGrad B: Based on the k what the question was, so what the discourse, the ontology, the situation and the user model gave us, we came up with these values for these decisions.Grad C: Yeah I know. But how do we weight what we get out As, which one i Which ones are important So my i So, if we were to it with a Bayes - net, we'd have to have a node {disfmarker} for every question that we knew how to deal with, that would take all of the inputs and weight them appropriately for that question.Grad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: Does that make sense Yay, nayGrad A: Um, I mean, are you saying that, what happens if you try to scale this up to the situation, or are we just dealing with arbitrary languageGrad C: We {disfmarker}Grad A: Is that your pointGrad C: Well, no. I {disfmarker} I guess my question is, Is the reason that we can make a node f or {disfmarker} OK. So, lemme see if I'm confused. Are this, and this, this, this, and so forth. And maybe just fiddle around with it a little bit more. And, um. And then it's just, uh, edges, many of edges. And, um, we won't {comment} meet next Monday. So.Grad C: Cuz of Memorial DayGrad A: We'll meet next Tuesday, I guess.Grad B: Yep. Yeah.Grad C: When's Jerry leaving for {disfmarker} ItaliaGrad B: On {disfmarker} on Friday.Grad A: Which FridayGrad B: This {disfmarker} this Friday.Grad A: OK.Grad D: Oh. This FridayGrad C: Ugh.Grad B: This Friday.Grad C: As in, four daysGrad B: Yep.Grad C: Or, three daysGrad A: Is he {disfmarker} How long is he gone forGrad B: Two weeks.Grad A: Italy, huh What's, uh {disfmarker} what's thereGrad B: Well, it's a country. Buildings. People.Grad A: Pasta.Grad C: But it's not a conference or anything.Grad B: HmmGrad C: He's just visiting.Grad A: Right. Just visiting.Grad B: Vacation.Grad A: It's a pretty nice place, in my brief, uh, encounter with it.Grad B: Do you guys {disfmarker} Oh, yeah. So. Part of what we actually want to do is sort of schedule out what we want to surprise him with when {disfmarker} when he comes back. Um, so {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh, I think we should disappoint him.Grad B: Yeah You {disfmarker} or have a finished construction parser and a working belief - net, and uh {disfmarker}Grad C: That wouldn't be disappointing. I think w we should do absolutely no work for the two weeks that he's gone.Grad B: Well, that's actually what I had planned, personally. I had {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I had sort of scheduled out in my mind that you guys do a lot of work, and I do nothing. And then, I sort of {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh, yeah, that sounds good, too.Grad B: sort of bask in {disfmarker} in your

What was the structure of the Bayes-net discussed.

The input layer deriving information from things like the user and situation models, feeds into a set of decision nodes, such as the Enter/View/Approach (EVA) endpoint. In any particular situation, most of the outputs will not be relevant to the given context. Therefore, they will either have to be pruned a posteriori, or only a subset of the possible decision nodes will be computed in each occasion.

glory. But, uh, i do you guys have any vacation plans, because I myself am going to be, um, gone, but this is actually not really important. Just this weekend we're going camping.Grad C: Yeah, I'm wanna be this {disfmarker} gone this weekend, too.Grad B: Ah. But we're all going to be here on Tuesday again Looks like itGrad D: Yeah.Grad B: OK, then. Let's meet {disfmarker} meet again next Tuesday. And, um, finish up this Bayes - net. And once we have finished it, I guess we can, um {disfmarker} and that's going to be more just you and me, because Bhaskara is doing probabilistic, recursive, structured, object - oriented, uh,Grad C: Killing machines!Grad B: reasoning machines.Grad A: Yes.Grad B: And, um {disfmarker}Grad C: Killing, reasoning. What's the differenceGrad D: Wait. So you're saying, next Tuesday, is it the whole group meeting, or just us three working on it, or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}Grad B: Uh. The whole group. And we present our results, our final,Grad D: OK.Grad B: definite {disfmarker}Grad D: So, when you were saying we {pause} need to do a re - run of, like {disfmarker}Grad A: h WhatGrad D: What {disfmarker} Like, just working out the rest of the {disfmarker}Grad B: Yeah. We should do this th the upcoming days.Grad D: This weekGrad B: So, this week, yeah.Grad C: When you say," the whole group" , you mean {pause} the four of us, and KeithGrad D: OK.Grad B: And, Ami might.Grad C: Ami might be here, and it's possible that Nancy'll be hereGrad B: Yep.Grad C: So, yeah.Grad B: Because, th you know, once we have the belief - net done {disfmarker}Grad C: You're just gonna have to explain it to me, then, on Tuesday, how it's all gonna work out. You know.Grad B: We will. want is {disfmarker} You wanna say," OK, give me the posterior probabilities of the Go - there {pause} node, when this is happening." Right When the person said this, the car is there, it's raining, and this is happening. And with this you can specify the {disfmarker} what's happening in the situation, and what's happening with the user. So we get {disfmarker} After we are done, through the Situation we get the User Vector. So, this is a {disfmarker}Grad C: So this is just a specification of all the possible inputsGrad B: Yep. And, all the possible outputs, too. So, we have, um, for example, the, uh, Go - there decision nodeGrad C: OK.Grad B: which has two elements, going - there and its posterior probability, and not - going - there and its posterior probability, because the output is always gonna be all the decision nodes and all the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} a all the posterior probabilities for all the values.Grad C: And then we would just look at the, eh, Struct that we wanna look at in terms of if {disfmarker} if we're only asking about one of the {disfmarker} So like, if I'm just interested in the going - there node, I would just pull that information out of the Struct that gets return that would {disfmarker} that Java Bayes would outputGrad B: Um, pretty much, yes, but I think it's a little bit more complex. As, if I understand it correctly, it always gives you all the posterior probabilities for all the values of all decision nodes. So, when we input something, we always get the, uh, posterior probabilities for all of these. RightGrad C: OK.Grad B: So there is no way of telling it t not to tell us about the EVA {pause} values.Grad C: we could have {disfmarker} I mea or uh we could put all of the all of the r information that could also be relevant {pause} into the Where - Is node answerGrad B: Mm - hmm. Yep.Grad C: node thing stuff. And uh {disfmarker}Grad D: OK.Grad B: I mean {disfmarker} Let's not forget we're gonna get some very strong {pause} input from {pause} these sub dis from these discourse things, right So." Tell me the location of X." Nuh Or" Where is X located at" Grad C: We uGrad B: NuhGrad C: Yeah, I know, but the Bayes - net would be able to {disfmarker} The weights on the {disfmarker} on the nodes in the Bayes - net would be able to do all that,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: wouldn't it Here's a k Oh! Oh, I'll wait until you're {pause} plugged in. Oh, don't sit there. Sit here. You know how you don't like that one. It's OK. That's the weird one. That's the one that's painful. That hurts. It hurts so bad. I'm h I'm happy that they're recording that. That headphone. The headphone {pause} that you have to put on backwards, with the little {disfmarker} little thing {disfmarker} and the little {disfmarker} little foam block on it It's a painful, painful microphone.Grad B: I think it's th called" the Crown" .Grad C: The crownGrad D: WhatGrad B: Yeah, versus" the Sony" .Grad A: The Crown Is that the actual name OK.Grad B: Mm - hmm. The manufacturer.Grad C: I don't see a manufacturer on it.Grad B: You wGrad C: Oh, wait, here it is. h This thingy. Yeah, it's" The Crown" . The crown of pain!Grad A: Yes.Grad B: You're on - lineGrad C: Are you {disfmarker} are your mike o Is your mike onGrad A: construction,Grad B: Oh!Grad C: right you could say," Well, there {disfmarker} Here's the Where - Is construction." And for the Where - Is construction, we know we need to l look at this node, that merges these three things togetherGrad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: as for th to decide the response. And since we have a finite number of constructions that we can deal with, we could have a finite number of nodes.Grad B: OK. Mm - hmm.Grad C: Say, if we had to y deal with arbitrary language, it wouldn't make any sense to do that, because there'd be no way to generate the nodes for every possible sentence.Grad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: But since we can only deal with a finite amount of stuff {disfmarker}Grad B: So, basically, the idea is to f to feed the output of that belief - net into another belief - net.Grad C: Yeah, so basically take these three things and then put them into another belief - net.Grad B: But, why {disfmarker} why {disfmarker} why only those three Why not the wholGrad C: Well, I mean, d For the Where - Is question. So we'd have a node for the Where - Is question.Grad B: Yeah. But we believe that all the decision nodes are {disfmarker} can be relevant for the Where - Is, and the Where {disfmarker} How - do - I - get - to or the Tell - me - something - about.Grad C: You can come in if you want.Grad B: Yes, it is allowed.Grad C: As long as y you're not wearing your h your h headphones. Well, I do I {disfmarker} See, I don't know if this is a {pause} good idea or not. I'm just throwing it out. But uh, it seems like we going to make a node for every question Does that make sense {disfmarker}Grad A: For every questionGrad C: Or not.Grad A: Like {disfmarker}Grad C: Every construction.Grad A: Hmm. I don't {disfmarker} Not necessarily, I would think. I mean, it's not based on constructions, it's based on things like, uh, there's gonna be a node for Go - there or not, and there's gonna be a node for Enter, View, Approach.Grad C: Wel W OK. So, someone asked a question.Grad A: Yeah.Grad C: How do we decide how to answer itGrad B: Well, look at {disfmarker} look {disfmarker} Face yourself with this pr question. You get this {disfmarker} You'll have {disfmarker} y This is what you get. And now you have to make a decision. What do we think What does this tell us And not knowing what was asked, and what happened, and whether the person was a tourist or a local, because all of these factors have presumably already gone into making these posterior probabilities. What {disfmarker} what we need is a {disfmarker} just a mechanism that says," Aha! There is {disfmarker}" Grad C: Yeah. I just don't think a" winner - take - all" type of thing is the {disfmarker}Grad A: I mean, in general, like, we won't just have those three, right We'll have, uh, like, many, many nodes. So we have to, like {disfmarker} So that it's no longer possible to just look at the nodes themselves and figure out what the person is trying to say.Grad B: Yep. Because there are interdependencies, right The uh {disfmarker} Uh, no. So if {disfmarker} if for example, the Go - there posterior possibility is so high, um, uh, w if it's {disfmarker} if it has reached {disfmarker} reached a certain height, then all of this becomes irrelevant.

What was discussed about contextualizing output

Due to most outputs not being relevant to the given context, they will either have to be pruned a posteriori, or only a subset of the possible decision nodes will be computed in each occasion. The latter option could follow a binary search-tree approach and it could also be better in computational terms. In any case, on what basis the" winner" output is chosen is not clear.

constructions.Grad C: Yeah. {comment} If the {disfmarker} if your {disfmarker} if your brain was totally non - deterministic, then perhaps there's a way to get, uh, infin an infinite number of constructions that you'd have to worry about.Grad A: But, I mean, in the {nonvocalsound} practical sense, it's impossible.Grad C: Right. Cuz if we have a fixed number of neurons {disfmarker}Grad A: Yeah.Grad C: So the best - case scenario would be the number of constructions {disfmarker} or, the worst - case scenario is the number of constructions equals the number of neurons.Grad A: Well, two to the power of the number of neurons.Grad C: Right. But still finite.Grad B: OK.Grad C: No, wait. Not necessarily, is it We can end the {pause} meeting. I just {disfmarker} Can't you use different var different levels of activation across, uh {disfmarker} lots of different neurons, to specify different valuesGrad B: Mm - hmm.Grad A: Um, yeah, but there's, like, a certain level of {disfmarker}Grad C: There's a bandwidth issue,Grad A: Bandw - Yeah, so you can't do better than something.Grad C: right Yeah.Grad B: Turn off the mikes. Otherwise it gets really tough for the tr glory. But, uh, i do you guys have any vacation plans, because I myself am going to be, um, gone, but this is actually not really important. Just this weekend we're going camping.Grad C: Yeah, I'm wanna be this {disfmarker} gone this weekend, too.Grad B: Ah. But we're all going to be here on Tuesday again Looks like itGrad D: Yeah.Grad B: OK, then. Let's meet {disfmarker} meet again next Tuesday. And, um, finish up this Bayes - net. And once we have finished it, I guess we can, um {disfmarker} and that's going to be more just you and me, because Bhaskara is doing probabilistic, recursive, structured, object - oriented, uh,Grad C: Killing machines!Grad B: reasoning machines.Grad A: Yes.Grad B: And, um {disfmarker}Grad C: Killing, reasoning. What's the differenceGrad D: Wait. So you're saying, next Tuesday, is it the whole group meeting, or just us three working on it, or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}Grad B: Uh. The whole group. And we present our results, our final,Grad D: OK.Grad B: definite {disfmarker}Grad D: So, when you were saying we {pause} need to do a re - run of, like {disfmarker}Grad A: h WhatGrad D: What {disfmarker} Like, just working out the rest of the {disfmarker}Grad B: Yeah. We should do this th the upcoming days.Grad D: This weekGrad B: So, this week, yeah.Grad C: When you say," the whole group" , you mean {pause} the four of us, and KeithGrad D: OK.Grad B: And, Ami might.Grad C: Ami might be here, and it's possible that Nancy'll be hereGrad B: Yep.Grad C: So, yeah.Grad B: Because, th you know, once we have the belief - net done {disfmarker}Grad C: You're just gonna have to explain it to me, then, on Tuesday, how it's all gonna work out. You know.Grad B: We will. always gonna get the whole list of values and their posterior probabilities. And now we need an expert system or belief - net or something that interprets that, that looks at all the values and says," The winner is Timing. Now, go there." " Uh, go there, Timing, now." Or," The winner is Info - on, Function - Off." So, he wants to know {pause} something about it, and what it does. Nuh Uh, regardless of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of the input. Wh - RegardleGrad C: Yeah, but But how does the expert {disfmarker} but how does the expert system know {disfmarker} how who which one to declare the winner, if it doesn't know the question it is, and how that question should be answeredGrad B: Based on the k what the question was, so what the discourse, the ontology, the situation and the user model gave us, we came up with these values for these decisions.Grad C: Yeah I know. But how do we weight what we get out As, which one i Which ones are important So my i So, if we were to it with a Bayes - net, we'd have to have a node {disfmarker} for every question that we knew how to deal with, that would take all of the inputs and weight them appropriately for that question.Grad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: Does that make sense Yay, nayGrad A: Um, I mean, are you saying that, what happens if you try to scale this up to the situation, or are we just dealing with arbitrary languageGrad C: We {disfmarker}Grad A: Is that your pointGrad C: Well, no. I {disfmarker} I guess my question is, Is the reason that we can make a node f or {disfmarker} OK. So, lemme see if I'm confused. Are this, and this, this, this, and so forth. And maybe just fiddle around with it a little bit more. And, um. And then it's just, uh, edges, many of edges. And, um, we won't {comment} meet next Monday. So.Grad C: Cuz of Memorial DayGrad A: We'll meet next Tuesday, I guess.Grad B: Yep. Yeah.Grad C: When's Jerry leaving for {disfmarker} ItaliaGrad B: On {disfmarker} on Friday.Grad A: Which FridayGrad B: This {disfmarker} this Friday.Grad A: OK.Grad D: Oh. This FridayGrad C: Ugh.Grad B: This Friday.Grad C: As in, four daysGrad B: Yep.Grad C: Or, three daysGrad A: Is he {disfmarker} How long is he gone forGrad B: Two weeks.Grad A: Italy, huh What's, uh {disfmarker} what's thereGrad B: Well, it's a country. Buildings. People.Grad A: Pasta.Grad C: But it's not a conference or anything.Grad B: HmmGrad C: He's just visiting.Grad A: Right. Just visiting.Grad B: Vacation.Grad A: It's a pretty nice place, in my brief, uh, encounter with it.Grad B: Do you guys {disfmarker} Oh, yeah. So. Part of what we actually want to do is sort of schedule out what we want to surprise him with when {disfmarker} when he comes back. Um, so {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh, I think we should disappoint him.Grad B: Yeah You {disfmarker} or have a finished construction parser and a working belief - net, and uh {disfmarker}Grad C: That wouldn't be disappointing. I think w we should do absolutely no work for the two weeks that he's gone.Grad B: Well, that's actually what I had planned, personally. I had {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I had sort of scheduled out in my mind that you guys do a lot of work, and I do nothing. And then, I sort of {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh, yeah, that sounds good, too.Grad B: sort of bask in {disfmarker} in your we could have {disfmarker} I mea or uh we could put all of the all of the r information that could also be relevant {pause} into the Where - Is node answerGrad B: Mm - hmm. Yep.Grad C: node thing stuff. And uh {disfmarker}Grad D: OK.Grad B: I mean {disfmarker} Let's not forget we're gonna get some very strong {pause} input from {pause} these sub dis from these discourse things, right So." Tell me the location of X." Nuh Or" Where is X located at" Grad C: We uGrad B: NuhGrad C: Yeah, I know, but the Bayes - net would be able to {disfmarker} The weights on the {disfmarker} on the nodes in the Bayes - net would be able to do all that,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: wouldn't it Here's a k Oh! Oh, I'll wait until you're {pause} plugged in. Oh, don't sit there. Sit here. You know how you don't like that one. It's OK. That's the weird one. That's the one that's painful. That hurts. It hurts so bad. I'm h I'm happy that they're recording that. That headphone. The headphone {pause} that you have to put on backwards, with the little {disfmarker} little thing {disfmarker} and the little {disfmarker} little foam block on it It's a painful, painful microphone.Grad B: I think it's th called" the Crown" .Grad C: The crownGrad D: WhatGrad B: Yeah, versus" the Sony" .Grad A: The Crown Is that the actual name OK.Grad B: Mm - hmm. The manufacturer.Grad C: I don't see a manufacturer on it.Grad B: You wGrad C: Oh, wait, here it is. h This thingy. Yeah, it's" The Crown" . The crown of pain!Grad A: Yes.Grad B: You're on - lineGrad C: Are you {disfmarker} are your mike o Is your mike onGrad A:

How does the bayes-net deal with inputs

The presented Bayes-net takes inputs from the Situation, User, Discourse and Ontology models. There are several values (elements) defined in each of these models. The inputs are fed into the belief-net, which, in turn, outputs the posterior probabilities for the values of all the decision nodes. These comprise" Go-there" ," EVA" ," Info-on" ," Location" ," Timing" , etc. At this stage, all the decision nodes are evenly weighted: regardless of the context, each output is trusted equally. Input and output node structure was presented in XML, as this is the format that will be used for the system. A large number of the value probabilities have already been set.

glory. But, uh, i do you guys have any vacation plans, because I myself am going to be, um, gone, but this is actually not really important. Just this weekend we're going camping.Grad C: Yeah, I'm wanna be this {disfmarker} gone this weekend, too.Grad B: Ah. But we're all going to be here on Tuesday again Looks like itGrad D: Yeah.Grad B: OK, then. Let's meet {disfmarker} meet again next Tuesday. And, um, finish up this Bayes - net. And once we have finished it, I guess we can, um {disfmarker} and that's going to be more just you and me, because Bhaskara is doing probabilistic, recursive, structured, object - oriented, uh,Grad C: Killing machines!Grad B: reasoning machines.Grad A: Yes.Grad B: And, um {disfmarker}Grad C: Killing, reasoning. What's the differenceGrad D: Wait. So you're saying, next Tuesday, is it the whole group meeting, or just us three working on it, or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}Grad B: Uh. The whole group. And we present our results, our final,Grad D: OK.Grad B: definite {disfmarker}Grad D: So, when you were saying we {pause} need to do a re - run of, like {disfmarker}Grad A: h WhatGrad D: What {disfmarker} Like, just working out the rest of the {disfmarker}Grad B: Yeah. We should do this th the upcoming days.Grad D: This weekGrad B: So, this week, yeah.Grad C: When you say," the whole group" , you mean {pause} the four of us, and KeithGrad D: OK.Grad B: And, Ami might.Grad C: Ami might be here, and it's possible that Nancy'll be hereGrad B: Yep.Grad C: So, yeah.Grad B: Because, th you know, once we have the belief - net done {disfmarker}Grad C: You're just gonna have to explain it to me, then, on Tuesday, how it's all gonna work out. You know.Grad B: We will. always gonna get the whole list of values and their posterior probabilities. And now we need an expert system or belief - net or something that interprets that, that looks at all the values and says," The winner is Timing. Now, go there." " Uh, go there, Timing, now." Or," The winner is Info - on, Function - Off." So, he wants to know {pause} something about it, and what it does. Nuh Uh, regardless of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of the input. Wh - RegardleGrad C: Yeah, but But how does the expert {disfmarker} but how does the expert system know {disfmarker} how who which one to declare the winner, if it doesn't know the question it is, and how that question should be answeredGrad B: Based on the k what the question was, so what the discourse, the ontology, the situation and the user model gave us, we came up with these values for these decisions.Grad C: Yeah I know. But how do we weight what we get out As, which one i Which ones are important So my i So, if we were to it with a Bayes - net, we'd have to have a node {disfmarker} for every question that we knew how to deal with, that would take all of the inputs and weight them appropriately for that question.Grad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: Does that make sense Yay, nayGrad A: Um, I mean, are you saying that, what happens if you try to scale this up to the situation, or are we just dealing with arbitrary languageGrad C: We {disfmarker}Grad A: Is that your pointGrad C: Well, no. I {disfmarker} I guess my question is, Is the reason that we can make a node f or {disfmarker} OK. So, lemme see if I'm confused. Are want is {disfmarker} You wanna say," OK, give me the posterior probabilities of the Go - there {pause} node, when this is happening." Right When the person said this, the car is there, it's raining, and this is happening. And with this you can specify the {disfmarker} what's happening in the situation, and what's happening with the user. So we get {disfmarker} After we are done, through the Situation we get the User Vector. So, this is a {disfmarker}Grad C: So this is just a specification of all the possible inputsGrad B: Yep. And, all the possible outputs, too. So, we have, um, for example, the, uh, Go - there decision nodeGrad C: OK.Grad B: which has two elements, going - there and its posterior probability, and not - going - there and its posterior probability, because the output is always gonna be all the decision nodes and all the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} a all the posterior probabilities for all the values.Grad C: And then we would just look at the, eh, Struct that we wanna look at in terms of if {disfmarker} if we're only asking about one of the {disfmarker} So like, if I'm just interested in the going - there node, I would just pull that information out of the Struct that gets return that would {disfmarker} that Java Bayes would outputGrad B: Um, pretty much, yes, but I think it's a little bit more complex. As, if I understand it correctly, it always gives you all the posterior probabilities for all the values of all decision nodes. So, when we input something, we always get the, uh, posterior probabilities for all of these. RightGrad C: OK.Grad B: So there is no way of telling it t not to tell us about the EVA {pause} values.Grad C: we could have {disfmarker} I mea or uh we could put all of the all of the r information that could also be relevant {pause} into the Where - Is node answerGrad B: Mm - hmm. Yep.Grad C: node thing stuff. And uh {disfmarker}Grad D: OK.Grad B: I mean {disfmarker} Let's not forget we're gonna get some very strong {pause} input from {pause} these sub dis from these discourse things, right So." Tell me the location of X." Nuh Or" Where is X located at" Grad C: We uGrad B: NuhGrad C: Yeah, I know, but the Bayes - net would be able to {disfmarker} The weights on the {disfmarker} on the nodes in the Bayes - net would be able to do all that,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Grad C: wouldn't it Here's a k Oh! Oh, I'll wait until you're {pause} plugged in. Oh, don't sit there. Sit here. You know how you don't like that one. It's OK. That's the weird one. That's the one that's painful. That hurts. It hurts so bad. I'm h I'm happy that they're recording that. That headphone. The headphone {pause} that you have to put on backwards, with the little {disfmarker} little thing {disfmarker} and the little {disfmarker} little foam block on it It's a painful, painful microphone.Grad B: I think it's th called" the Crown" .Grad C: The crownGrad D: WhatGrad B: Yeah, versus" the Sony" .Grad A: The Crown Is that the actual name OK.Grad B: Mm - hmm. The manufacturer.Grad C: I don't see a manufacturer on it.Grad B: You wGrad C: Oh, wait, here it is. h This thingy. Yeah, it's" The Crown" . The crown of pain!Grad A: Yes.Grad B: You're on - lineGrad C: Are you {disfmarker} are your mike o Is your mike onGrad A: this, and this, this, this, and so forth. And maybe just fiddle around with it a little bit more. And, um. And then it's just, uh, edges, many of edges. And, um, we won't {comment} meet next Monday. So.Grad C: Cuz of Memorial DayGrad A: We'll meet next Tuesday, I guess.Grad B: Yep. Yeah.Grad C: When's Jerry leaving for {disfmarker} ItaliaGrad B: On {disfmarker} on Friday.Grad A: Which FridayGrad B: This {disfmarker} this Friday.Grad A: OK.Grad D: Oh. This FridayGrad C: Ugh.Grad B: This Friday.Grad C: As in, four daysGrad B: Yep.Grad C: Or, three daysGrad A: Is he {disfmarker} How long is he gone forGrad B: Two weeks.Grad A: Italy, huh What's, uh {disfmarker} what's thereGrad B: Well, it's a country. Buildings. People.Grad A: Pasta.Grad C: But it's not a conference or anything.Grad B: HmmGrad C: He's just visiting.Grad A: Right. Just visiting.Grad B: Vacation.Grad A: It's a pretty nice place, in my brief, uh, encounter with it.Grad B: Do you guys {disfmarker} Oh, yeah. So. Part of what we actually want to do is sort of schedule out what we want to surprise him with when {disfmarker} when he comes back. Um, so {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh, I think we should disappoint him.Grad B: Yeah You {disfmarker} or have a finished construction parser and a working belief - net, and uh {disfmarker}Grad C: That wouldn't be disappointing. I think w we should do absolutely no work for the two weeks that he's gone.Grad B: Well, that's actually what I had planned, personally. I had {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I had sort of scheduled out in my mind that you guys do a lot of work, and I do nothing. And then, I sort of {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh, yeah, that sounds good, too.Grad B: sort of bask in {disfmarker} in your

What's the summary of the meeting

The focus of the meeting was on a presentation of the work done already on the building of the Bayes-net. The complete prototype of the Bayes-net will be presented in the next meeting. After that, it will be possible to define interfaces and a dummy construction parser, in order to test and link modules together.

do, an analysis of that, then that really does require listening {comment} to every single channel all the way through the entire {comment} length for all the different speakers. Now, for only four speakers, that's not gonna be too much time, but if it's nine speakers, then that i that is more time. So it's li you know, kind of wondering {disfmarker} And I think again it's like this {disfmarker} it's really valuable that Thilo's working on the speech - nonspeech segmentation because maybe, um, we can close in on that wi without having to actually go to the time that it would take to listen to every single channel from start to finish through every single meeting.PhD E: Yeah, but those backchannels will always be a problem I think. Uh especially if they're really short and they're not very loud and so it {disfmarker} it can {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it will always happen that also the automatic s detection system will miss some of them, so.Postdoc F: OK. Well so then {disfmarker} then, maybe the answer is to, uh, listen especially densely in places of overlap,PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: just so that they're {disfmarker} they're not being overlooked because of that, and count on accuracy during the sparser phases.PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: Cuz there are large s spaces of the {disfmarker} That's a good point. There are large spaces where there's no overlap at all. Someone's giving a presentation,PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: or whatever. That's {disfmarker} that's a good {disfmarker} that's a good thought. And, um, let's see, there was one other thing I was gonna say. I {disfmarker} I think it's really interesting data to work with, I have to say, it's very enjoyable. I really, not {disfmarker} not a problem spending time with these data. Really interesting. over he the {disfmarker} we we'll have a s ch Sorry, not being very fluent here. But, um, this {disfmarker} the discourse side will have a script which will stri strip away the things which are non - communicative. OK. So then the {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} let's {disfmarker} let's think about the practicalities of how we get to that master copy with reference to breaths. So what I would {disfmarker} r r what I would wonder is would it be possible to encode those automatically Could we get a breath detectorGrad B: Oh, just to save the transcribers time.Postdoc F: Well, I mean, you just have no idea. I mean, if you're getting a breath several times every minute,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Postdoc F: and just simply the keystrokes it takes to negotiate, to put the boundaries in, to {disfmarker} to type it in, i it's just a huge amount of time.Grad B: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Oops.Professor A: Wh - what {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc F: And you wanna be sure it's used, and you wanna be sure it's done as efficiently as possible, and if it can be done automatically, that would be ideal.Professor A: what if you put it in but didn't put the boundariesPostdoc F: Well, but {disfmarker}Professor A: So you just know it's between these other things,Postdoc F: Well, OK. So now there's {disfmarker} there's another {disfmarker} another possibilityProfessor A: rightPostdoc F: which is, um, the time boundaries could mark off words {comment} from nonwords. And that would be extremely time - effective, if that's sufficient.Professor A: Yeah I mean I'm think if it's too {disfmarker} if it's too hard for us to annotate the breaths per se, {vocalsound} we are gonna be building up models for these things and these things are somewhat self - G: Yeah.Professor A: yeah.Grad B: OK.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: It {disfmarker} it's kinda nice {disfmarker} I mean, wh who knows what studies people will be doing on {disfmarker} on speaker - dependent thingsPhD C: Mmm.Professor A: and so I think having {disfmarker} having it all {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: the speakers who we had is {disfmarker} is at least interesting.PhD G: So you {disfmarker} um, how many digits have been transcribed nowGrad B: Four thousand lines. And each line is between one and about ten digits.PhD G: Four thousand linesGrad B: I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't compute the average. I think the average was around four or five.Professor A: So that's a couple hours of {disfmarker} of, uh, speech, probably.PhD G: Wow.Grad B: Yep. Yep.Professor A: Which is a yeah reasonable {disfmarker} reasonable test set.PhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Grad B: And, Jane, I do have a set of forms which I think you have copies of somewhere.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Yeah, true.Grad B: Oh you do Oh OK, good, good.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad B: Yeah, I was just wond I thought I had {disfmarker} had all of them back from you. And then the other thing is that, uh, the forms in front of us here that we're gonna read later, were suggested by LizPostdoc F: No, not yet.Grad B: because she wanted to elicit some different prosodics from digits. And so, uh, I just wanted people to, take a quick look at the instructionsPhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Eight eight two two two nine.Grad B: and the way it wa worked and see if it makes sense and if anyone has any comments on it.Professor A: I see. And the decision here, uh, was to continue with uh the to finish out the test set.Postdoc F: Oh! By {disfmarker} throw them out completelyGrad B: Um, the other thing you could do is change the transcript to match what they really said. So those are {disfmarker} those are the two options.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm.Professor A: But there's often things where people do false starts. I know I've done it, where I say {disfmarker} say a {disfmarker}Grad B: What the transcribers did with that is if they did a correction, and they eventually did read the right string, {comment} you extract the right string.PhD G: Oh, you're talking about where they completely read the wrong string and didn't correct itPhD E: Yeah.Grad B: Yeah. And didn't notice. Which happens in a few places.PhD E: Yeah.PhD G: Ah.PhD C: Yeah.Grad B: So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Well, and s and you're talking string - wise, you're not talking about the entire pageGrad B: Correct.PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: I get it.Grad B: And so the {disfmarker} the two options are change the transcript to match what they really said, but then {disfmarker} but then the transcript isn't the Aurora test set anymore. I don't think that really matters because the conditions are so different. And that would be a little easier.PhD G: Well how many are {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} how often does that happenGrad B: Mmm, five or six times.PhD G: Oh, so it's not very much.Grad B: No, it's not much at all.PhD G: Seems like we should just change the transcriptsPhD E: Yeah.Grad B: OK.PhD G: to match.Professor A: Yeah, it's five or six times out of {pause} thousandsPhD C: Yeah.Grad B: Four thousand.Professor A: Four thousandPhD C: Four thous Ah! Four thousand.PhD G: Yeah, it's {disfmarker}Professor A: Yeah, I would, uh, {vocalsound} tak do the easy way,PhD {disfmarker} the news is that I've {disfmarker} I uh {disfmarker} s So {disfmarker} in s um {disfmarker} So I've switched to {disfmarker} Start my new sentence. I {disfmarker} I switched to doing the channel - by - channel transcriptions to provide, uh, the {disfmarker} uh, tighter time bins for {disfmarker} partly for use in Thilo's work and also it's of relevance to other people in the project. And, um, I discovered in the process a couple of {disfmarker} of interesting things, which, um, one of them is that, um, it seems that there are time lags involved in doing this, uh, uh, using an interface that has so much more complexity to it. And I {disfmarker} and I wanted to maybe ask, uh, Chuck to help me with some of the questions of efficiency. Maybe {disfmarker} I was thinking maybe the best way to do this in the long run may be to give them single channel parts and then piece them together later. And I {disfmarker} I have a script, I can piece them together. I mean, so it's like, I {disfmarker} I know that I can take them apart and put them together and I'll end up with the representation which is where the real power of that interface is.Professor A: Mm - hmm.Postdoc F: And it may be that it's faster to transcribe a channel at a time with only one, uh, sound file and one, uh, set of {disfmarker} of, uh, utterances to check through.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: I'm a little confused. I thought that {disfmarker} that one of the reason we thought we were so much faster than {disfmarker} than, uh, the {disfmarker} the other transcription, uh, thing was that {disfmarker} that we were using the mixed {pause} file.Postdoc F: Oh, yes. OK. But, um,

What problems and solutions were discussed about the recording data

A small percentage of transcripts will be changed to reflect mis-read, uncorrected digits. A speaker database will be compiled to establish consistent links between speakers and their corresponding identification tags.

do, an analysis of that, then that really does require listening {comment} to every single channel all the way through the entire {comment} length for all the different speakers. Now, for only four speakers, that's not gonna be too much time, but if it's nine speakers, then that i that is more time. So it's li you know, kind of wondering {disfmarker} And I think again it's like this {disfmarker} it's really valuable that Thilo's working on the speech - nonspeech segmentation because maybe, um, we can close in on that wi without having to actually go to the time that it would take to listen to every single channel from start to finish through every single meeting.PhD E: Yeah, but those backchannels will always be a problem I think. Uh especially if they're really short and they're not very loud and so it {disfmarker} it can {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it will always happen that also the automatic s detection system will miss some of them, so.Postdoc F: OK. Well so then {disfmarker} then, maybe the answer is to, uh, listen especially densely in places of overlap,PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: just so that they're {disfmarker} they're not being overlooked because of that, and count on accuracy during the sparser phases.PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: Cuz there are large s spaces of the {disfmarker} That's a good point. There are large spaces where there's no overlap at all. Someone's giving a presentation,PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: or whatever. That's {disfmarker} that's a good {disfmarker} that's a good thought. And, um, let's see, there was one other thing I was gonna say. I {disfmarker} I think it's really interesting data to work with, I have to say, it's very enjoyable. I really, not {disfmarker} not a problem spending time with these data. Really interesting. G: Yeah.Professor A: yeah.Grad B: OK.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: It {disfmarker} it's kinda nice {disfmarker} I mean, wh who knows what studies people will be doing on {disfmarker} on speaker - dependent thingsPhD C: Mmm.Professor A: and so I think having {disfmarker} having it all {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: the speakers who we had is {disfmarker} is at least interesting.PhD G: So you {disfmarker} um, how many digits have been transcribed nowGrad B: Four thousand lines. And each line is between one and about ten digits.PhD G: Four thousand linesGrad B: I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't compute the average. I think the average was around four or five.Professor A: So that's a couple hours of {disfmarker} of, uh, speech, probably.PhD G: Wow.Grad B: Yep. Yep.Professor A: Which is a yeah reasonable {disfmarker} reasonable test set.PhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Grad B: And, Jane, I do have a set of forms which I think you have copies of somewhere.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Yeah, true.Grad B: Oh you do Oh OK, good, good.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad B: Yeah, I was just wond I thought I had {disfmarker} had all of them back from you. And then the other thing is that, uh, the forms in front of us here that we're gonna read later, were suggested by LizPostdoc F: No, not yet.Grad B: because she wanted to elicit some different prosodics from digits. And so, uh, I just wanted people to, take a quick look at the instructionsPhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Eight eight two two two nine.Grad B: and the way it wa worked and see if it makes sense and if anyone has any comments on it.Professor A: I see. And the decision here, uh, was to continue with uh the over he the {disfmarker} we we'll have a s ch Sorry, not being very fluent here. But, um, this {disfmarker} the discourse side will have a script which will stri strip away the things which are non - communicative. OK. So then the {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} let's {disfmarker} let's think about the practicalities of how we get to that master copy with reference to breaths. So what I would {disfmarker} r r what I would wonder is would it be possible to encode those automatically Could we get a breath detectorGrad B: Oh, just to save the transcribers time.Postdoc F: Well, I mean, you just have no idea. I mean, if you're getting a breath several times every minute,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Postdoc F: and just simply the keystrokes it takes to negotiate, to put the boundaries in, to {disfmarker} to type it in, i it's just a huge amount of time.Grad B: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Oops.Professor A: Wh - what {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc F: And you wanna be sure it's used, and you wanna be sure it's done as efficiently as possible, and if it can be done automatically, that would be ideal.Professor A: what if you put it in but didn't put the boundariesPostdoc F: Well, but {disfmarker}Professor A: So you just know it's between these other things,Postdoc F: Well, OK. So now there's {disfmarker} there's another {disfmarker} another possibilityProfessor A: rightPostdoc F: which is, um, the time boundaries could mark off words {comment} from nonwords. And that would be extremely time - effective, if that's sufficient.Professor A: Yeah I mean I'm think if it's too {disfmarker} if it's too hard for us to annotate the breaths per se, {vocalsound} we are gonna be building up models for these things and these things are somewhat self - Yeah.Grad B: Oh, great.Professor A: Uh, and then, you have {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Can wProfessor A: I mean, I won't say much, but {disfmarker} {comment} uh, but then, uh, you said {disfmarker} wanna talk about digitsGrad B: I have a short thing about digits and then uh I wanna talk a little bit about naming conventions, although it's unclear whether this is the right place to talk about it. So maybe just talk about it very briefly and take the details to the people who {disfmarker} for whom it's relevant.Professor A: Right.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc F: I could always say something about transcription. I've been {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} uh, well {disfmarker}Professor A: Well if we {disfmarker} Yeah, we shouldn't add things in just to add things in. I'm actually pretty busy today,Postdoc F: Yeah.Professor A: so if we can {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} we {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Professor A: a short meeting would be fine.Postdoc F: This does sound like we're doing fine, yeah. That won't do.Grad B: So the only thing I wanna say about digits is, we are pretty much done with the first test set. There are probably forms here and there that are marked as having been read that weren't really read. So I won't really know until I go through all the transcriber forms and extract out pieces that are in error. So I wa Uh. Two things. The first is what should we do about digits that were misread My opinion is, um, we should just throw them out completely, and have them read again by someone else. You know, the grouping is completely random,PhD C: Uh - huh.Grad B: so it {disfmarker} it's perfectly fine to put a {disfmarker} a group together again of errors and have them re - read, just not right. Eh,Professor A: Yeah.PhD C: I haven't enough file feeling to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to distinguish what happened.Professor A: Yeah, I'd like to talk with you about it. If {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if, uh {disfmarker} If I don't have enough time and y you wanna discuss with someone else {disfmarker} some someone else besides us that you might want to talk to, uh, might be Stephane.PhD C: Yeah. I talked with Stephane and {disfmarker} and ThiloProfessor A: Yeah and {disfmarker} and Thilo, yeah.PhD C: and,Professor A: Yeah, but {disfmarker}PhD C: they {disfmarker} nnn they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {comment} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {vocalsound} didn't {disfmarker}PhD E: I'm not too experienced with {vocalsound} harmonicsProfessor A: I see.PhD C: they think that {comment} the experience is not enough to {disfmarker}PhD E: and {disfmarker}PhD G: Is {disfmarker} is this the algorithm where you hypothesize a fundamental, and then get the energy for all the harmonics of that fundamentalPhD C: No, no it's {disfmarker} No {disfmarker} No. No.PhD G: And then hypothesize a new fundamental and get the energy {disfmarker}Professor A: Yeah, that's whPhD C: No. I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't proth process the {disfmarker} the fundamental. I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I, ehm {disfmarker} I calculate the {disfmarker} the phase derivate using the FFT.Professor A: Yeah.PhD C: And {disfmarker} The algorithm said that, eh, {vocalsound} if you {disfmarker} if you change the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the, eh, nnn {disfmarker} the X - the frequency" X" , eh, using the in the instantaneous frequency, you can find, eh, how, eh, in several frequencies that proba probably the {disfmarker} the harmonics, eh,Professor A: Uh - huh.PhD C: the errors of peaks {disfmarker} the frequency peaks, eh, eh, move around {pause} these, eh {disfmarker} eh frequency harmonic {disfmarker} the frequency of the harmonic. And,

What was the status of the recording data

The first test set of digits is complete and includes 4,000 lines, each comprising between 1-10 digits. New digits forms were distributed for eliciting different prosodic groupings of numbers. New naming conventions were discussed as means for facilitating the sorting process. Existing files will be changed so that all filenames are of equal length. Similar changes will be made to speaker identification tags. Files will also contain information specifying channel, microphone, and broadcaster information.

do, an analysis of that, then that really does require listening {comment} to every single channel all the way through the entire {comment} length for all the different speakers. Now, for only four speakers, that's not gonna be too much time, but if it's nine speakers, then that i that is more time. So it's li you know, kind of wondering {disfmarker} And I think again it's like this {disfmarker} it's really valuable that Thilo's working on the speech - nonspeech segmentation because maybe, um, we can close in on that wi without having to actually go to the time that it would take to listen to every single channel from start to finish through every single meeting.PhD E: Yeah, but those backchannels will always be a problem I think. Uh especially if they're really short and they're not very loud and so it {disfmarker} it can {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it will always happen that also the automatic s detection system will miss some of them, so.Postdoc F: OK. Well so then {disfmarker} then, maybe the answer is to, uh, listen especially densely in places of overlap,PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: just so that they're {disfmarker} they're not being overlooked because of that, and count on accuracy during the sparser phases.PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: Cuz there are large s spaces of the {disfmarker} That's a good point. There are large spaces where there's no overlap at all. Someone's giving a presentation,PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: or whatever. That's {disfmarker} that's a good {disfmarker} that's a good thought. And, um, let's see, there was one other thing I was gonna say. I {disfmarker} I think it's really interesting data to work with, I have to say, it's very enjoyable. I really, not {disfmarker} not a problem spending time with these data. Really interesting. Of all the harmonics of that. Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.PhD G: Do you hafta do some kind of, uh, low - pass filter before you do thatPhD C: I don't use.PhD G: Or {disfmarker}PhD C: But, I {disfmarker} I know many people use, eh, low - pass filter to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to get, eh, the pitch.Professor A: No. To get the pitch, yes.PhD C: I don't use. To get the pitch, yes.PhD E: To get the pitch, yeah.PhD C: But the harmonic, no.PhD G: But i But the harmonics are gonna be, uh, uh, I don't know what the right word is. Um, they're gonna be dampened by the uh, vocal tract, right The response of the vocal tract.Professor A: YeahPhD C: YeahPhD G: And so {disfmarker} just looking at the energy on those {disfmarker} at the harmonics, is that gonna {disfmarker}Professor A: Well so the thing is that the {disfmarker} This is for, uh, a, um {disfmarker}PhD G: I m what you'd like to do is get rid of the effect of the vocal tract. RightPhD E: Yeah.PhD G: And just look at the {disfmarker} at {disfmarker} at the signal coming out of the glottis.Professor A: Yeah. Uh, well, yeah that'd be good.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: But, uh {disfmarker} but I {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but I don't know that you need to {disfmarker}Grad B: Open wide!Professor A: but I don't need you {disfmarker} know if you need to get rid of it. I mean that'd {disfmarker} that'd be nice but I don't know if it's ess if it's essential. Um, I mean {disfmarker} cuz I think the main thing is that, uh, you're trying {disfmarker}PhD G: Uh - huh.Professor A: wha what are you doing this for You're trying distinguish between the case where there is, uh {disfmarker} G: Yeah.Professor A: yeah.Grad B: OK.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: It {disfmarker} it's kinda nice {disfmarker} I mean, wh who knows what studies people will be doing on {disfmarker} on speaker - dependent thingsPhD C: Mmm.Professor A: and so I think having {disfmarker} having it all {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: the speakers who we had is {disfmarker} is at least interesting.PhD G: So you {disfmarker} um, how many digits have been transcribed nowGrad B: Four thousand lines. And each line is between one and about ten digits.PhD G: Four thousand linesGrad B: I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't compute the average. I think the average was around four or five.Professor A: So that's a couple hours of {disfmarker} of, uh, speech, probably.PhD G: Wow.Grad B: Yep. Yep.Professor A: Which is a yeah reasonable {disfmarker} reasonable test set.PhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Grad B: And, Jane, I do have a set of forms which I think you have copies of somewhere.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Yeah, true.Grad B: Oh you do Oh OK, good, good.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad B: Yeah, I was just wond I thought I had {disfmarker} had all of them back from you. And then the other thing is that, uh, the forms in front of us here that we're gonna read later, were suggested by LizPostdoc F: No, not yet.Grad B: because she wanted to elicit some different prosodics from digits. And so, uh, I just wanted people to, take a quick look at the instructionsPhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Eight eight two two two nine.Grad B: and the way it wa worked and see if it makes sense and if anyone has any comments on it.Professor A: I see. And the decision here, uh, was to continue with uh the over he the {disfmarker} we we'll have a s ch Sorry, not being very fluent here. But, um, this {disfmarker} the discourse side will have a script which will stri strip away the things which are non - communicative. OK. So then the {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} let's {disfmarker} let's think about the practicalities of how we get to that master copy with reference to breaths. So what I would {disfmarker} r r what I would wonder is would it be possible to encode those automatically Could we get a breath detectorGrad B: Oh, just to save the transcribers time.Postdoc F: Well, I mean, you just have no idea. I mean, if you're getting a breath several times every minute,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Postdoc F: and just simply the keystrokes it takes to negotiate, to put the boundaries in, to {disfmarker} to type it in, i it's just a huge amount of time.Grad B: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Oops.Professor A: Wh - what {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc F: And you wanna be sure it's used, and you wanna be sure it's done as efficiently as possible, and if it can be done automatically, that would be ideal.Professor A: what if you put it in but didn't put the boundariesPostdoc F: Well, but {disfmarker}Professor A: So you just know it's between these other things,Postdoc F: Well, OK. So now there's {disfmarker} there's another {disfmarker} another possibilityProfessor A: rightPostdoc F: which is, um, the time boundaries could mark off words {comment} from nonwords. And that would be extremely time - effective, if that's sufficient.Professor A: Yeah I mean I'm think if it's too {disfmarker} if it's too hard for us to annotate the breaths per se, {vocalsound} we are gonna be building up models for these things and these things are somewhat self - {disfmarker} the news is that I've {disfmarker} I uh {disfmarker} s So {disfmarker} in s um {disfmarker} So I've switched to {disfmarker} Start my new sentence. I {disfmarker} I switched to doing the channel - by - channel transcriptions to provide, uh, the {disfmarker} uh, tighter time bins for {disfmarker} partly for use in Thilo's work and also it's of relevance to other people in the project. And, um, I discovered in the process a couple of {disfmarker} of interesting things, which, um, one of them is that, um, it seems that there are time lags involved in doing this, uh, uh, using an interface that has so much more complexity to it. And I {disfmarker} and I wanted to maybe ask, uh, Chuck to help me with some of the questions of efficiency. Maybe {disfmarker} I was thinking maybe the best way to do this in the long run may be to give them single channel parts and then piece them together later. And I {disfmarker} I have a script, I can piece them together. I mean, so it's like, I {disfmarker} I know that I can take them apart and put them together and I'll end up with the representation which is where the real power of that interface is.Professor A: Mm - hmm.Postdoc F: And it may be that it's faster to transcribe a channel at a time with only one, uh, sound file and one, uh, set of {disfmarker} of, uh, utterances to check through.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: I'm a little confused. I thought that {disfmarker} that one of the reason we thought we were so much faster than {disfmarker} than, uh, the {disfmarker} the other transcription, uh, thing was that {disfmarker} that we were using the mixed {pause} file.Postdoc F: Oh, yes. OK. But, um,

What were the instructions for the transcribers

The transcribers should only code audible breaths within a grouping of words, and not outside regions of continuous speech. It was further determined that audible breaths are an important facet of recorded speech, and that removing them from the corpus would be contrary to the aims of the project. Speaker mn005 will prepare his results for detecting speaker overlap and present them in the next meeting.

Of all the harmonics of that. Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.PhD G: Do you hafta do some kind of, uh, low - pass filter before you do thatPhD C: I don't use.PhD G: Or {disfmarker}PhD C: But, I {disfmarker} I know many people use, eh, low - pass filter to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to get, eh, the pitch.Professor A: No. To get the pitch, yes.PhD C: I don't use. To get the pitch, yes.PhD E: To get the pitch, yeah.PhD C: But the harmonic, no.PhD G: But i But the harmonics are gonna be, uh, uh, I don't know what the right word is. Um, they're gonna be dampened by the uh, vocal tract, right The response of the vocal tract.Professor A: YeahPhD C: YeahPhD G: And so {disfmarker} just looking at the energy on those {disfmarker} at the harmonics, is that gonna {disfmarker}Professor A: Well so the thing is that the {disfmarker} This is for, uh, a, um {disfmarker}PhD G: I m what you'd like to do is get rid of the effect of the vocal tract. RightPhD E: Yeah.PhD G: And just look at the {disfmarker} at {disfmarker} at the signal coming out of the glottis.Professor A: Yeah. Uh, well, yeah that'd be good.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: But, uh {disfmarker} but I {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but I don't know that you need to {disfmarker}Grad B: Open wide!Professor A: but I don't need you {disfmarker} know if you need to get rid of it. I mean that'd {disfmarker} that'd be nice but I don't know if it's ess if it's essential. Um, I mean {disfmarker} cuz I think the main thing is that, uh, you're trying {disfmarker}PhD G: Uh - huh.Professor A: wha what are you doing this for You're trying distinguish between the case where there is, uh {disfmarker} G: Yeah.Professor A: yeah.Grad B: OK.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: It {disfmarker} it's kinda nice {disfmarker} I mean, wh who knows what studies people will be doing on {disfmarker} on speaker - dependent thingsPhD C: Mmm.Professor A: and so I think having {disfmarker} having it all {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: the speakers who we had is {disfmarker} is at least interesting.PhD G: So you {disfmarker} um, how many digits have been transcribed nowGrad B: Four thousand lines. And each line is between one and about ten digits.PhD G: Four thousand linesGrad B: I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't compute the average. I think the average was around four or five.Professor A: So that's a couple hours of {disfmarker} of, uh, speech, probably.PhD G: Wow.Grad B: Yep. Yep.Professor A: Which is a yeah reasonable {disfmarker} reasonable test set.PhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Grad B: And, Jane, I do have a set of forms which I think you have copies of somewhere.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Yeah, true.Grad B: Oh you do Oh OK, good, good.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad B: Yeah, I was just wond I thought I had {disfmarker} had all of them back from you. And then the other thing is that, uh, the forms in front of us here that we're gonna read later, were suggested by LizPostdoc F: No, not yet.Grad B: because she wanted to elicit some different prosodics from digits. And so, uh, I just wanted people to, take a quick look at the instructionsPhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Eight eight two two two nine.Grad B: and the way it wa worked and see if it makes sense and if anyone has any comments on it.Professor A: I see. And the decision here, uh, was to continue with uh the over he the {disfmarker} we we'll have a s ch Sorry, not being very fluent here. But, um, this {disfmarker} the discourse side will have a script which will stri strip away the things which are non - communicative. OK. So then the {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} let's {disfmarker} let's think about the practicalities of how we get to that master copy with reference to breaths. So what I would {disfmarker} r r what I would wonder is would it be possible to encode those automatically Could we get a breath detectorGrad B: Oh, just to save the transcribers time.Postdoc F: Well, I mean, you just have no idea. I mean, if you're getting a breath several times every minute,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Postdoc F: and just simply the keystrokes it takes to negotiate, to put the boundaries in, to {disfmarker} to type it in, i it's just a huge amount of time.Grad B: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Oops.Professor A: Wh - what {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc F: And you wanna be sure it's used, and you wanna be sure it's done as efficiently as possible, and if it can be done automatically, that would be ideal.Professor A: what if you put it in but didn't put the boundariesPostdoc F: Well, but {disfmarker}Professor A: So you just know it's between these other things,Postdoc F: Well, OK. So now there's {disfmarker} there's another {disfmarker} another possibilityProfessor A: rightPostdoc F: which is, um, the time boundaries could mark off words {comment} from nonwords. And that would be extremely time - effective, if that's sufficient.Professor A: Yeah I mean I'm think if it's too {disfmarker} if it's too hard for us to annotate the breaths per se, {vocalsound} we are gonna be building up models for these things and these things are somewhat self - not right. Eh,Professor A: Yeah.PhD C: I haven't enough file feeling to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to distinguish what happened.Professor A: Yeah, I'd like to talk with you about it. If {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if, uh {disfmarker} If I don't have enough time and y you wanna discuss with someone else {disfmarker} some someone else besides us that you might want to talk to, uh, might be Stephane.PhD C: Yeah. I talked with Stephane and {disfmarker} and ThiloProfessor A: Yeah and {disfmarker} and Thilo, yeah.PhD C: and,Professor A: Yeah, but {disfmarker}PhD C: they {disfmarker} nnn they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {comment} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {vocalsound} didn't {disfmarker}PhD E: I'm not too experienced with {vocalsound} harmonicsProfessor A: I see.PhD C: they think that {comment} the experience is not enough to {disfmarker}PhD E: and {disfmarker}PhD G: Is {disfmarker} is this the algorithm where you hypothesize a fundamental, and then get the energy for all the harmonics of that fundamentalPhD C: No, no it's {disfmarker} No {disfmarker} No. No.PhD G: And then hypothesize a new fundamental and get the energy {disfmarker}Professor A: Yeah, that's whPhD C: No. I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't proth process the {disfmarker} the fundamental. I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I, ehm {disfmarker} I calculate the {disfmarker} the phase derivate using the FFT.Professor A: Yeah.PhD C: And {disfmarker} The algorithm said that, eh, {vocalsound} if you {disfmarker} if you change the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the, eh, nnn {disfmarker} the X - the frequency" X" , eh, using the in the instantaneous frequency, you can find, eh, how, eh, in several frequencies that proba probably the {disfmarker} the harmonics, eh,Professor A: Uh - huh.PhD C: the errors of peaks {disfmarker} the frequency peaks, eh, eh, move around {pause} these, eh {disfmarker} eh frequency harmonic {disfmarker} the frequency of the harmonic. And, And not just because I'm in there. No, it's real interesting.Professor A: Uh, well I think it's a short meeting. Uh, you're {disfmarker} you're {disfmarker} you're still in the midst of what you're doing from what you described last time, I assume,PhD C: Is true.Postdoc F:Professor A: and {disfmarker}PhD C: I haven't results, eh, yetProfessor A: Yeah.PhD C: but, eh, I {disfmarker} I'm continue working with the mixed signal now, {comment} after the {disfmarker} the last experience.Professor A: Yeah. Yeah.PhD C: And {disfmarker} and I'm tried to {disfmarker} to, uh, adjust the {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to improve, eh, an harmonicity, eh, detector that, eh, I {disfmarker} I implement.Professor A: Yeah.PhD C: But I have problem because, eh, I get, eh, eh, very much harmonics now.Professor A: Yeah.PhD C: Um, harmonic {disfmarker} possi possible harmonics, uh, eh, and now I'm {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm trying to {disfmarker} to find, eh, some kind of a, um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of h of help, eh, using the energy to {disfmarker} to distinguish between possible harmonics, and {disfmarker} and other fre frequency peaks, that, eh, corres not harmonics. And, eh, I have to {disfmarker} to talk with y with you, with the group, eh, about the instantaneous frequency, because I have, eh, an algorithm, and, I get, mmm, eh, t t results {disfmarker} similar results, like, eh, the paper, eh, that I {disfmarker} I am following. But, eh, the {disfmarker} the rules, eh, that, eh, people used in the paper to {disfmarker} to distinguish the harmonics, is {disfmarker} doesn't work well.Professor A: Mm - hmm.PhD C: And I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I not sure that i {vocalsound} eh, the {disfmarker} the way {disfmarker} o to {disfmarker} ob the way to obtain the {disfmarker} the instantaneous frequency is {pause} right, or it's {disfmarker} it's

What problems were encountered with transcriptions

Transcribers are likely to overlook backchannels in densely populated sections of speaker overlap. Speaker mn014 reported that this is also problematic for the automatic detection of speech and non-speech, as backchannels that are very short and not loud enough will inevitably be overlooked. Speaker mn005 reported problems distinguishing between possible harmonics and other frequency peaks, and creating an algorithm for obtaining the instantaneous frequency. The encoding of all audible breaths is too time-consuming.

do, an analysis of that, then that really does require listening {comment} to every single channel all the way through the entire {comment} length for all the different speakers. Now, for only four speakers, that's not gonna be too much time, but if it's nine speakers, then that i that is more time. So it's li you know, kind of wondering {disfmarker} And I think again it's like this {disfmarker} it's really valuable that Thilo's working on the speech - nonspeech segmentation because maybe, um, we can close in on that wi without having to actually go to the time that it would take to listen to every single channel from start to finish through every single meeting.PhD E: Yeah, but those backchannels will always be a problem I think. Uh especially if they're really short and they're not very loud and so it {disfmarker} it can {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it will always happen that also the automatic s detection system will miss some of them, so.Postdoc F: OK. Well so then {disfmarker} then, maybe the answer is to, uh, listen especially densely in places of overlap,PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: just so that they're {disfmarker} they're not being overlooked because of that, and count on accuracy during the sparser phases.PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: Cuz there are large s spaces of the {disfmarker} That's a good point. There are large spaces where there's no overlap at all. Someone's giving a presentation,PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: or whatever. That's {disfmarker} that's a good {disfmarker} that's a good thought. And, um, let's see, there was one other thing I was gonna say. I {disfmarker} I think it's really interesting data to work with, I have to say, it's very enjoyable. I really, not {disfmarker} not a problem spending time with these data. Really interesting. G: Yeah.Professor A: yeah.Grad B: OK.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: It {disfmarker} it's kinda nice {disfmarker} I mean, wh who knows what studies people will be doing on {disfmarker} on speaker - dependent thingsPhD C: Mmm.Professor A: and so I think having {disfmarker} having it all {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: the speakers who we had is {disfmarker} is at least interesting.PhD G: So you {disfmarker} um, how many digits have been transcribed nowGrad B: Four thousand lines. And each line is between one and about ten digits.PhD G: Four thousand linesGrad B: I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't compute the average. I think the average was around four or five.Professor A: So that's a couple hours of {disfmarker} of, uh, speech, probably.PhD G: Wow.Grad B: Yep. Yep.Professor A: Which is a yeah reasonable {disfmarker} reasonable test set.PhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Grad B: And, Jane, I do have a set of forms which I think you have copies of somewhere.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Yeah, true.Grad B: Oh you do Oh OK, good, good.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad B: Yeah, I was just wond I thought I had {disfmarker} had all of them back from you. And then the other thing is that, uh, the forms in front of us here that we're gonna read later, were suggested by LizPostdoc F: No, not yet.Grad B: because she wanted to elicit some different prosodics from digits. And so, uh, I just wanted people to, take a quick look at the instructionsPhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD E: Eight eight two two two nine.Grad B: and the way it wa worked and see if it makes sense and if anyone has any comments on it.Professor A: I see. And the decision here, uh, was to continue with uh the be doing a larger proposal. And I'm {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I hope to be doing very little of it. And {disfmarker} uh, {vocalsound} which was also true for the pre - proposal, so. Uh, there'll be bunch of people working on it. So.Grad B: When's {disfmarker} when's the full proposal dueProfessor A: Uh, I think April ninth, or something. So it's about a month.PhD E: p sProfessor A: Um {disfmarker}Grad B: Yep. And they said end of business day you could check on the reviewer forms,PhD G: uGrad B: is that {disfmarker}PhD G: Tomorrow.Professor A: Tomorrow. March second, I said.PhD E: TomorrowGrad B: I've been a day off all week.PhD C: Tomorrow.PhD E: Yeah.Grad B: I guess that's a good thing cuz that way I got my papers done early.PhD G: It would be interesting {disfmarker}Professor A: So that's amazing you showed up at this meeting!Grad B: It is. It is actually quite amazing.PhD E: Yeah.PhD G: It'll be interesting to see the reviewer's comments.Professor A: Yeah. Yeah. My favorite is was when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when one reviewer says, uh," you know, this should be far more detailed" , and the nex the next reviewer says," you know, there's way too much detail" .Grad B: Yep. Or" this is way too general" , and the other reviewer says," this is way too specific" .PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: Yeah.Grad B:" This is way too hard" ," way too easy" .Professor A: We'll see. Maybe there'll be something useful. And {disfmarker} and, uh {disfmarker}Grad B: Well it sounded like they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} the first gate was pretty easy. Is that right That they didn't reject a lot of the pre - proposalsProfessor A: Do you know anything about the numbersGrad B: No. Just {disfmarker} just thPhD words rather than the {disfmarker} the numerics.Grad B: Uh, yes, although we could switch it back. The problem was O and zero. Although we could switch it back and tell them always to say" zero" or always to say" O" .Postdoc F: Oh {disfmarker}Professor A: Or neither.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: But it's just two thing {disfmarker} ways that you can say it.Grad B: Mm - hmm.Professor A: RightGrad B: Sure.Postdoc F: Oh.Professor A: Um {disfmarker} um,PhD E: Yeah.Professor A: that's the only thought I have because if you t start talking about these, you know u tr She's trying to get at natural groupings, but it {disfmarker} there's {disfmarker} there's nothing natural about reading numbers this way.Grad B: Right.Professor A: I mean if you saw a telephone number you would never see it this way.Grad B: The {disfmarker} the problem also is she did want to stick with digits. I mean I'm speaking for her since she's not here.Professor A: Yeah.Grad B: But, um, the other problem we were thinking about is if you just put the numerals, {comment} they might say forty - three instead of four three.PhD E: Yeah.PhD G: Mmm.PhD C: Yeah.PhD E: Yeah.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc F: Well, if there's space, though, between them. I mean, you can {disfmarker} With {disfmarker} when you space them out they don't look like, uh, forty - three anymore.PhD E: Yeah.Grad B: Well, she and I were talking about it,Professor A: Yeah.Grad B: and she felt that it's very, very natural to do that sort of chunking.Professor A: She's right. It's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it's a different problem. I mean it's a {disfmarker} it's a {disfmarker} it's an interesting problem {disfmarker} I mean, we've done stuff with numbers before, and yeah sometimes people {disfmarker} If you say s" three nine eight a {disfmarker} it's not just a minor part. In fact, the {disfmarker} I think I would say the core thing that we're trying to do is to recognize the actual, meaningful components in the midst of other things that are not meaningful. So it's critical {disfmarker} it's not just incidental it's critical for us to get these other components that are not meaningful. Because that's what we're trying to pull the other out of. That's our problem. If we had nothing {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Yeah.Professor A: if we had only linguistically - relevant things {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if we only had changes in the spectrum that were associated with words, with different spectral components, and, uh, we {disfmarker} we didn't have noise, we didn't have convolutional errors, we didn't have extraneous, uh, behaviors, and so forth, and {vocalsound} moving your head and all these sorts of things, then, actually speech recognition i i isn't that bad right now. I mean you can you know it's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it's {disfmarker} the technology's come along pretty well.PhD C: Yeah.Professor A: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the reason we still complain about it is because is {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when you have more realistic conditions then {disfmarker} then things fall apart.Postdoc F: OK, fair enough. I guess, um, I {disfmarker} uh, what I was wondering is what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} at what level does the breathing aspect enter into the problem Because if it were likely that a PDA would be able to be built which would get rid of the breathing, so it wouldn't even have to be processed at thi at this computational le well, let me see, it'd have to be computationally processed to get rid of it, but if there were, uh, like likely on the frontier, a good breath extractor

What was the meeting about

The group talked about the status of the first test set of digits data, naming conventions for files, speaker identification tags, and encoding files with details about the recording. The group also discussed a proposal for a grant from the NSF's ITR (Information Technology Research) program, transcriptions, and efforts by speaker mn005 to detect speaker overlap using harmonicity-related features. Particular focus was paid to questions about transcription procedures, i. e. how to deal with overlooked backchannels, and audible breaths.

eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to the budget that we're looking at and at the price point we're looking at, we should be able to make it work the T_V_, the V_C_R_, the stereo set um maybe something else cute like a coffee pot or one other appliance or maybe a lamp.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay, can can I at this point interject um somethingMarketing: I have to wind up Yeah, sure.Project Manager: Um we have received instruction from higher up that certain things should not be uh considered. Um the one thing for example {disfmarker} something to eliminate maybe that's the teletext,Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: because that's sort of outdated with the internet,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: and according to to higher management the {disfmarker} it should only control the T_V_,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: mostly because they feel that it's too comp complex a task to um to to include other things,Industrial Designer: Complicated, yeah, of course.Project Manager: and they are concerned with the time to market.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Of course, yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Um and the {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay, so that's something {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the third thing that they wanna make sure um that their {disfmarker} that the corporate image is being maintained, and that the corporate colour and design are being used on the product, so that it's easy that that that they can be easily identified as a product of of of the company, and that there's no mistake that it could be somebody else who is bringing this out.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So I just wanted to interject this here so we're not getting too much off track here with uh with the things we wanna look at. These were instructions from higher up so we have to eliminate uh these things, so it's only gonna be T_V_,Marketing: Okay so should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice.Project Manager: On the on on the remote. Yeah, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes. Yes. So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time, and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.User Interface: So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age, then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel.Project Manager: Yes. By your child, mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television. And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down, like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm,'kay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a know a a action, there can be no action taking to that so. And there should be a child lock, like uh uh you should be able to lock your remote controller so that uh um whatever buttons are pressed by a child they can't be like y you i you if you have ki kids and all then they'll be pl playing with the remote controllers so can lock the remote controller. If make it useable for more than one device it's a it's hard but I think it's possibleProject Manager: Yeah well {disfmarker} yeah well that has been e that has been eliminated, so that's that's unfortunately a moot point now. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but it uhMarketing: Well we already eliminated that.Industrial Designer: yeah yeah yeahUser Interface: Eliminated.Industrial Designer: so it's it's okay, yeah, yeah. And uh different shapes that we can do like uh we can have you know a all animals shapes or you know comfortable uh whi which can fit into your handsProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and um so that uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Now that's good from a marketing point of view, the fun {disfmarker} the fun shape.Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeah, yeah and colours also, different colours, and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm colours.Marketing: And that {disfmarker} you you say that won't add too much to the budgetIndustrial Designer: No no no, it won't uh I don't think it will be like,Marketing: To d the shape is uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you can have you know for uh if you want ther there to be more {disfmarker}Project Manager: It just build a mould basically and uh you know.Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah.User Interface: Yes exactly.Industrial Designer: It's it's just a s shape so it doesn't matter.Project Manager: As the budget we're looking at if you build one

What is the main function of the remote

The main function is to only control the function of a television at a far off distance. The signal released from the remote through radio waves or infrared can change different functionalities in the television. There should be a timer to set for viewing a particular program or for switching on or off a particular program or lock the television to save electricity according to the user's choice. A child lock system should be added.

use. We have to have as few buttons as possible, because more buttons is more confusion, so that's why I'm saying, simplicity is good. Finding it's important, obviously you can't use it if you can't find it. So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it, and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here, it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros. So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say, uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that. Has to be so great that they're gonna say, uh twenty five Euros isn't much. Um and then maybe a motto, like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. And uh who would be next, uh, I guess that would be you. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah'kay.Project Manager: You want me to get your slide show upIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And you are number threeIndustrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two.Industrial Designer: yeah. Yeah exactly.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen pleaseProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yep.Industrial Designer: No, it's like a well you you have to press here. The cup cup shape hereMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah, uh-huh.Industrial Designer: The thir third.Project Manager: There, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly. Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller. Um can you go to the next sli slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to what the only change is gonna be umIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: the funct d t yeah uh {vocalsound}Marketing: Cosmetic.User Interface: Of th okay.Project Manager: the functional {vocalsound} functional cosmetics if you want to put it that way,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: um having maybe larger buttons or buttons that light up or buttons that are slightly differently shaped for people uh either for children um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Five minutes that was I guess tha that's the old message.Marketing: Warning, finish meeting now. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Finish meeting now. Um um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well we may have to come back to one or two of these points at our next meeting but um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, maybe, yeah, yeah.Project Manager: But I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: If we do some more research, maybe we {gap}.Project Manager: I I think to sum it up the target group is basically everybody. If money permits we can address some features for some subgroups within that.User Interface: Okay,Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm yeah,Project Manager: Do we agree, do weIndustrial Designer: I think maybe seventy percent is a unique uh uh remote controller and thirty percent is yeah it's sort of like {disfmarker} yeah.Marketing: Okay but we have to lProject Manager: Do we agree on on that in principle, like money will tell whether we will be able to do that or not.Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay, fair enough.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay So now I understand it's lunch break.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And um. So that's what we will do.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So hank you very much.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And we'll see you after lunch. Project Manager: Okay, is everybody readyIndustrial Designer: YeahMarketing: Yeah I'd to just put on my microphone here and I'll be right with you.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: OkayProject Manager: Um {vocalsound} I take it you all have received instructions as to what you were supposed to doIndustrial Designer: MmUser Interface: Yes.Project Manager: and um I think the Marketing Manager probably should go first, addressing the needs and desires.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay you want me to start right nowProject Manager: Yeah, mm-hmm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, could you um put my slides up'cause I think it might be helpful if uh we looked at the slides at the same time.Project Manager: Okay. You're participant four.Marketing: I'm participant four I believe. Yes uh-huh.Project Manager: Okay, and now I can uh full screen.Marketing:'Kay.Industrial Designer: Open.Project Manager: Uh, okay, okay.Marketing: There we go. Okay well I think we have introduced ourselves,Industrial Designer: And then full screen.Marketing: so the functional requirements are {disfmarker} is {vocalsound} is part of my goal but why don't we pass right to the second slide. Cause that's where m my discussion starts. Right well um since I'm in charge of trying to figure out what we should put on this thing since I have to try to sell it.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Um {vocalsound} I thought that the method I should follow would be gather suggestions from everybody, and th the reason I just put that there like that is that uh in the init in the initial stage I think I should just be open to lots of suggestions. You know you can say anything you want no matter how silly it sounds you know it should run your car, it should heat up your motor if should um turn on your C_D_ {vocalsound} whatever you want it to do {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:'Kay.Marketing: um

What were the other features of the remote mentioned in the discussion of functions of the remote

The buttons on the remote, installed with infrared bulbs, would be fluorescent whenever the TV is on, so users can find the remote even in the dark. Also, the buttons can glow differently according to different functions. The remote will beep if too many buttons are pressed at once. The team agreed to add a display clock, which can also be used as an alarm clock. The idea of having teletext and controlling electronic products of the whole house was rejected.

{disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice.Project Manager: On the on on the remote. Yeah, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes. Yes. So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time, and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.User Interface: So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age, then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel.Project Manager: Yes. By your child, mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television. And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down, like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm,'kay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a use. We have to have as few buttons as possible, because more buttons is more confusion, so that's why I'm saying, simplicity is good. Finding it's important, obviously you can't use it if you can't find it. So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it, and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here, it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros. So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say, uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that. Has to be so great that they're gonna say, uh twenty five Euros isn't much. Um and then maybe a motto, like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. And uh who would be next, uh, I guess that would be you. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah'kay.Project Manager: You want me to get your slide show upIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And you are number threeIndustrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two.Industrial Designer: yeah. Yeah exactly.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen pleaseProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yep.Industrial Designer: No, it's like a well you you have to press here. The cup cup shape hereMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah, uh-huh.Industrial Designer: The thir third.Project Manager: There, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly. Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller. Um can you go to the next sli slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the what the only change is gonna be umIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: the funct d t yeah uh {vocalsound}Marketing: Cosmetic.User Interface: Of th okay.Project Manager: the functional {vocalsound} functional cosmetics if you want to put it that way,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: um having maybe larger buttons or buttons that light up or buttons that are slightly differently shaped for people uh either for children um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Five minutes that was I guess tha that's the old message.Marketing: Warning, finish meeting now. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Finish meeting now. Um um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well we may have to come back to one or two of these points at our next meeting but um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, maybe, yeah, yeah.Project Manager: But I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: If we do some more research, maybe we {gap}.Project Manager: I I think to sum it up the target group is basically everybody. If money permits we can address some features for some subgroups within that.User Interface: Okay,Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm yeah,Project Manager: Do we agree, do weIndustrial Designer: I think maybe seventy percent is a unique uh uh remote controller and thirty percent is yeah it's sort of like {disfmarker} yeah.Marketing: Okay but we have to lProject Manager: Do we agree on on that in principle, like money will tell whether we will be able to do that or not.Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay, fair enough.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay So now I understand it's lunch break.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And um. So that's what we will do.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So hank you very much.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And we'll see you after lunch.

What did the team think about having buttons for multiple operations in the discussion of functions of the remote

Marketing said that there is a lot of argument to make one button for one feature because research results show that users complain about how hard it is to learn a new one. This idea might be suitable for people working with computers all the time but the elderly with an arthritic hand might find it difficult. User Interface suggested that it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities and be in the shape of the letter T for more compatibility.

eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you use. We have to have as few buttons as possible, because more buttons is more confusion, so that's why I'm saying, simplicity is good. Finding it's important, obviously you can't use it if you can't find it. So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it, and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here, it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros. So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say, uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that. Has to be so great that they're gonna say, uh twenty five Euros isn't much. Um and then maybe a motto, like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. And uh who would be next, uh, I guess that would be you. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah'kay.Project Manager: You want me to get your slide show upIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And you are number threeIndustrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two.Industrial Designer: yeah. Yeah exactly.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen pleaseProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yep.Industrial Designer: No, it's like a well you you have to press here. The cup cup shape hereMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah, uh-huh.Industrial Designer: The thir third.Project Manager: There, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly. Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller. Um can you go to the next sli slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice.Project Manager: On the on on the remote. Yeah, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes. Yes. So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time, and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.User Interface: So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age, then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel.Project Manager: Yes. By your child, mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television. And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down, like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm,'kay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a a person if some if somebody wants to get up at around eight eight P_M_ then he can set the time and it can be used as an alarm clock,Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: and I don't think it will cost much to set an alarm clock inside a remote.Industrial Designer: Yeah, sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: If there is a clock then there can be a alarm clock.User Interface: Yes,Marketing: And an alarm clock, yeah that should {disfmarker} that should be okay.User Interface: and as John Reece said the buttons can be, uh can me we can use the fluorescence to light up the buttons so different uh buttons will glow differently. So in even in the dark the user can know what buttons to use to switch on a particular channel. And uh uh the design of the uh um remote should be in such a way that there should not be any sharp projections so that if a child plays with a remote, he uh he should not be harmed in any way.Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: And findings, uh I found out uh y um on different sites that uh there are different remotes which can be used, there are remotes which use the infrared for controlling the different functionalities, there are remotes which use the radio waves to control the functions and there are uh {disfmarker} So uh there you have different uh types of remotes for different light source which are used {disfmarker} which can be used for controlling the different functionalities of a television. Next slide. And these are my few personal preferences like it can be used for a multipurpose use. Not, uh no uh like it can {disfmarker} it can be used as a T_V_ control as plus an alarm clock to

What is the product positioning of the remote

It would be an attractive impulse purchase which would be out in the market by September as a Christmas present of twenty five Euros. It would be for everybody who has a TV, mainly aged ten to forty. In the subgroups of the target group, there are elderly people who have limited functions with their fingers and hands and nervous people who cannot press a little button unless it is very clear. To make the remote sellable, it should be intuitive and easy to use in order to shorten the learning curve. It could be sold with a slogan.

eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you use. We have to have as few buttons as possible, because more buttons is more confusion, so that's why I'm saying, simplicity is good. Finding it's important, obviously you can't use it if you can't find it. So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it, and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here, it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros. So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say, uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that. Has to be so great that they're gonna say, uh twenty five Euros isn't much. Um and then maybe a motto, like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. And uh who would be next, uh, I guess that would be you. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah'kay.Project Manager: You want me to get your slide show upIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And you are number threeIndustrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two.Industrial Designer: yeah. Yeah exactly.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen pleaseProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yep.Industrial Designer: No, it's like a well you you have to press here. The cup cup shape hereMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah, uh-huh.Industrial Designer: The thir third.Project Manager: There, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly. Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller. Um can you go to the next sli slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice.Project Manager: On the on on the remote. Yeah, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes. Yes. So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time, and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.User Interface: So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age, then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel.Project Manager: Yes. By your child, mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television. And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down, like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm,'kay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to know a a action, there can be no action taking to that so. And there should be a child lock, like uh uh you should be able to lock your remote controller so that uh um whatever buttons are pressed by a child they can't be like y you i you if you have ki kids and all then they'll be pl playing with the remote controllers so can lock the remote controller. If make it useable for more than one device it's a it's hard but I think it's possibleProject Manager: Yeah well {disfmarker} yeah well that has been e that has been eliminated, so that's that's unfortunately a moot point now. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but it uhMarketing: Well we already eliminated that.Industrial Designer: yeah yeah yeahUser Interface: Eliminated.Industrial Designer: so it's it's okay, yeah, yeah. And uh different shapes that we can do like uh we can have you know a all animals shapes or you know comfortable uh whi which can fit into your handsProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and um so that uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Now that's good from a marketing point of view, the fun {disfmarker} the fun shape.Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeah, yeah and colours also, different colours, and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm colours.Marketing: And that {disfmarker} you you say that won't add too much to the budgetIndustrial Designer: No no no, it won't uh I don't think it will be like,Marketing: To d the shape is uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you can have you know for uh if you want ther there to be more {disfmarker}Project Manager: It just build a mould basically and uh you know.Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah.User Interface: Yes exactly.Industrial Designer: It's it's just a s shape so it doesn't matter.Project Manager: As the budget we're looking at if you build one

What is the appearance of the remote

The corporate colour and design are recommended to be used on the product. The remote could be in different colours such as pink or banana yellow and shapes such as a fun shape like animal shapes or a comfortable shape that fits the hand but no sharp projections, lest a child plays with it. The idea of buttons with various shapes such as a triangle for volume and square for channels was considered. Everyone agreed that the text on the remote should be clear and the remote should be compact.

use. We have to have as few buttons as possible, because more buttons is more confusion, so that's why I'm saying, simplicity is good. Finding it's important, obviously you can't use it if you can't find it. So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it, and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here, it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros. So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say, uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that. Has to be so great that they're gonna say, uh twenty five Euros isn't much. Um and then maybe a motto, like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. And uh who would be next, uh, I guess that would be you. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah'kay.Project Manager: You want me to get your slide show upIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And you are number threeIndustrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two.Industrial Designer: yeah. Yeah exactly.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen pleaseProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yep.Industrial Designer: No, it's like a well you you have to press here. The cup cup shape hereMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah, uh-huh.Industrial Designer: The thir third.Project Manager: There, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly. Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller. Um can you go to the next sli slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you the budget that we're looking at and at the price point we're looking at, we should be able to make it work the T_V_, the V_C_R_, the stereo set um maybe something else cute like a coffee pot or one other appliance or maybe a lamp.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay, can can I at this point interject um somethingMarketing: I have to wind up Yeah, sure.Project Manager: Um we have received instruction from higher up that certain things should not be uh considered. Um the one thing for example {disfmarker} something to eliminate maybe that's the teletext,Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: because that's sort of outdated with the internet,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: and according to to higher management the {disfmarker} it should only control the T_V_,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: mostly because they feel that it's too comp complex a task to um to to include other things,Industrial Designer: Complicated, yeah, of course.Project Manager: and they are concerned with the time to market.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Of course, yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Um and the {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay, so that's something {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the third thing that they wanna make sure um that their {disfmarker} that the corporate image is being maintained, and that the corporate colour and design are being used on the product, so that it's easy that that that they can be easily identified as a product of of of the company, and that there's no mistake that it could be somebody else who is bringing this out.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So I just wanted to interject this here so we're not getting too much off track here with uh with the things we wanna look at. These were instructions from higher up so we have to eliminate uh these things, so it's only gonna be T_V_,Marketing: Okay so should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice.Project Manager: On the on on the remote. Yeah, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes. Yes. So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time, and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.User Interface: So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age, then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel.Project Manager: Yes. By your child, mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television. And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down, like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm,'kay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a

What did the team think of Project Manager's idea of removable plastic cases when discussing the appearance of the remote

Project Manager suggested that the remote could have removable plastic cases like phones so users can change to the colour they like, for example, striped or fluorescent blue. Two cases can be provided in the package and users can buy new cases in stores for a few Francs or Euros. The team immediately jumped on board with the idea.

eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you use. We have to have as few buttons as possible, because more buttons is more confusion, so that's why I'm saying, simplicity is good. Finding it's important, obviously you can't use it if you can't find it. So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it, and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here, it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros. So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say, uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that. Has to be so great that they're gonna say, uh twenty five Euros isn't much. Um and then maybe a motto, like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. And uh who would be next, uh, I guess that would be you. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah'kay.Project Manager: You want me to get your slide show upIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And you are number threeIndustrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two.Industrial Designer: yeah. Yeah exactly.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen pleaseProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yep.Industrial Designer: No, it's like a well you you have to press here. The cup cup shape hereMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah, uh-huh.Industrial Designer: The thir third.Project Manager: There, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly. Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller. Um can you go to the next sli slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice.Project Manager: On the on on the remote. Yeah, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes. Yes. So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time, and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.User Interface: So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age, then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel.Project Manager: Yes. By your child, mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television. And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down, like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm,'kay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to the budget that we're looking at and at the price point we're looking at, we should be able to make it work the T_V_, the V_C_R_, the stereo set um maybe something else cute like a coffee pot or one other appliance or maybe a lamp.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay, can can I at this point interject um somethingMarketing: I have to wind up Yeah, sure.Project Manager: Um we have received instruction from higher up that certain things should not be uh considered. Um the one thing for example {disfmarker} something to eliminate maybe that's the teletext,Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: because that's sort of outdated with the internet,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: and according to to higher management the {disfmarker} it should only control the T_V_,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: mostly because they feel that it's too comp complex a task to um to to include other things,Industrial Designer: Complicated, yeah, of course.Project Manager: and they are concerned with the time to market.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Of course, yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Um and the {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay, so that's something {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the third thing that they wanna make sure um that their {disfmarker} that the corporate image is being maintained, and that the corporate colour and design are being used on the product, so that it's easy that that that they can be easily identified as a product of of of the company, and that there's no mistake that it could be somebody else who is bringing this out.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So I just wanted to interject this here so we're not getting too much off track here with uh with the things we wanna look at. These were instructions from higher up so we have to eliminate uh these things, so it's only gonna be T_V_,Marketing: Okay so

What are the main components and working design of the remote

The remote control would have a chip in the integrated circuit, taking power from the battery and transforming input from buttons through wires into infrared signals to electronic devices. There will be buttons and underneath them are switches and bulbs. To hold everything in, there should be a case and a remote holder. The material used for the remote should be human friendly so that it will not cause any skin disease or allergy to either children or adults. The frequency of each electronic device is different so it would be very difficult to design a control for multiple devices.

use. We have to have as few buttons as possible, because more buttons is more confusion, so that's why I'm saying, simplicity is good. Finding it's important, obviously you can't use it if you can't find it. So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it, and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here, it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros. So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say, uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that. Has to be so great that they're gonna say, uh twenty five Euros isn't much. Um and then maybe a motto, like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. And uh who would be next, uh, I guess that would be you. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah'kay.Project Manager: You want me to get your slide show upIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And you are number threeIndustrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two.Industrial Designer: yeah. Yeah exactly.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen pleaseProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yep.Industrial Designer: No, it's like a well you you have to press here. The cup cup shape hereMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah, uh-huh.Industrial Designer: The thir third.Project Manager: There, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly. Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller. Um can you go to the next sli slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice.Project Manager: On the on on the remote. Yeah, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes. Yes. So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time, and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.User Interface: So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age, then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel.Project Manager: Yes. By your child, mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television. And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down, like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm,'kay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a what the only change is gonna be umIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: the funct d t yeah uh {vocalsound}Marketing: Cosmetic.User Interface: Of th okay.Project Manager: the functional {vocalsound} functional cosmetics if you want to put it that way,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: um having maybe larger buttons or buttons that light up or buttons that are slightly differently shaped for people uh either for children um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Five minutes that was I guess tha that's the old message.Marketing: Warning, finish meeting now. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Finish meeting now. Um um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well we may have to come back to one or two of these points at our next meeting but um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, maybe, yeah, yeah.Project Manager: But I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: If we do some more research, maybe we {gap}.Project Manager: I I think to sum it up the target group is basically everybody. If money permits we can address some features for some subgroups within that.User Interface: Okay,Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm yeah,Project Manager: Do we agree, do weIndustrial Designer: I think maybe seventy percent is a unique uh uh remote controller and thirty percent is yeah it's sort of like {disfmarker} yeah.Marketing: Okay but we have to lProject Manager: Do we agree on on that in principle, like money will tell whether we will be able to do that or not.Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Okay, fair enough.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay So now I understand it's lunch break.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And um. So that's what we will do.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So hank you very much.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And we'll see you after lunch.

What did the team think of designing different remotes for different categories of people when discussing the working design of the remote

User Interface suggested adding specific functional buttons for children or the elderly or people with nervous problems. Industrial Designer replied that it wouldn't cost much. Project Manager suggested that they can make forty percent of the remotes with large buttons and regular buttons for the rest. To sum it up, if the budget permits, they can address some features for certain subgroups.

{disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright, thanks for that. Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaints that people have about the remote controls that are out there now.'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use, and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did address in our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room. Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address, uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible, we wanna make it um obvious and intuitive to use, and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep, and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna try to incorporate.'Kay can we go to the next slide please Okay, so, my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle. That is the selling point, the thing that's gonna make it an impulse purchase. Uh because once there's no be-back, well in sales they always say you know, be-backs don't come back.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says, oh I'll come back and get it next week you're dead. They're never gonna come back and buy it. You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing. And, in order to make it really sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve, make sure it's really intuitive and easy to should be some timer to set for viewing a particular a particular programme or switching on and off a uh a particular programme according to the user choice.Project Manager: On the on on the remote. Yeah, mm-hmm.User Interface: Yes. Yes. So if if he want to view a particular programme at say nine o'clock he can set the time, and the T_V_ will automatically it will switch on at that particular time.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.User Interface: So he can use that kind of uh uh properties of features and then there should be a child lock system if a particular channel is not to be viewed by a particular uh for a certain age, then the parents can lock that particular channel so that the ch children cannot view that channel.Project Manager: Yes. By your child, mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh the uh the uh and the {disfmarker} one of the feature a user would like to have is the compactness of the co remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Uh t the remote should be compact and it should ha it should have as many buttons as possible for controlling different functionalities of the T_V_ television. And um uh as uh uh this is my personal preference that it should be in the shape of a T_ in alphabet for more compactability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And uh and uh and it is one more point which I noted it down, like uh the material which which which is used for remotes should be human friendly it should not cause any skin disease or something some al allergy to either children or to um ad adult person.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm,'kay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And it should have an uh it can have an alarm clock a eliminated by management, so we're off the hook {vocalsound}.Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: Um. So uh user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there. So uh you can control whatever you want, you want to change the channel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tell what to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions.Marketing: Mm okay.Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um um investment also,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll be like light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playing with the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you use. We have to have as few buttons as possible, because more buttons is more confusion, so that's why I'm saying, simplicity is good. Finding it's important, obviously you can't use it if you can't find it. So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it, and I've already said this several times but I put it down in writing here, it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros. So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say, uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that. Has to be so great that they're gonna say, uh twenty five Euros isn't much. Um and then maybe a motto, like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. And uh who would be next, uh, I guess that would be you. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah'kay.Project Manager: You want me to get your slide show upIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Thank you.Project Manager: And you are number threeIndustrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two.Industrial Designer: yeah. Yeah exactly.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen pleaseProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yep.Industrial Designer: No, it's like a well you you have to press here. The cup cup shape hereMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah, uh-huh.Industrial Designer: The thir third.Project Manager: There, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly. Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller. Um can you go to the next sli slide pleaseMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the and then as we go on what we'll have to do is accept and eliminate these suggestions according to um design and budget feasibility. So I'll be coming to you um frequently as the Industrial Expert to tell me how hard it's gonna be to add a feature or how expensive it's gonna be or if your time, if it takes five years to develop this it's just something we can't do.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm hmm. Mm.Marketing: So in the beginning just have a big puddle of things that we {disfmarker} anybody can th throw anything inIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: and then just weed things out that can't be done for one reason or another, and then the things that seem the most attractive that to uh to a customer we'll try to then prioritise those.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Yeah.Marketing: So that was um what I meant there, and as I said on the slide there consulting the Industrial Engineer about that and the other thing is timing is really gonna be as important as money, because if we're gonna sell this thing, I think the best time to sell it is as a Christmas present. Twenty five Euros makes a nice little present, and we want it to be an impulse purchase,Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: we want somebody to see it and think it's, gee I just gotta have that. And take out their wallet and buy it. So it's gotta be really attractive and it {disfmarker} but it's gotta go to market by September,'cause anything that you don't already have out there in September showing it around, isn't gonna sell for Christmas.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Um {vocalsound} and then I'll be coming to you as the User Interface person to try to tell me from your point of view

Summarize the whole meeting.

The meeting started off with Marketing leading the discussion on product positioning of the remote, which was going to be an impulse purchase and certain requirements from management, such as the remote only controlling the television. Then, Industrial Designer shared the working design and main components of the remote. Also, they discussed functions that they would add to the remote such as a child lock and the appearance of the remote, such as having a comfortable shape and different colours. User Interface then raised some features that the remote ought to have such as having a timer. Finally, Project Manager stated their target group, which was people aged ten to forty, and they discussed how to cater to their needs, such as having large buttons for the elderly.

D: Yeah, yeah.Grad E: Is that {disfmarker} all {disfmarker} all of them are based on all the others, right Just, you {disfmarker} you can't say {disfmarker}PhD B: Maybe they should have said" focus" or something.Professor C: Right.Grad E: Yeah. I mean, so. {disfmarker} And I'm saying the same thing happened with speech recognition, right For a long time people were hand - c coding linguistic rules and then they discovered machine - learning worked better. And now they're throwing more and more data and worrying {disfmarker} perhaps worrying less and less about, uh, the exact details of the algorithms.PhD D: And {disfmarker} and then you hit this {disfmarker}Grad E: Except when they have a Eurospeech paper.Postdoc A: Yeah.Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: Anyway.Professor C: Anyway, tea is {disfmarker} tea is, uh, starting.Grad E: Shall we read some digits Are we gonna do one at a time Or should we read them all agai at once again.Professor C: Let's do it all at once.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's good.Professor C: We {disfmarker} @ @ {disfmarker} let's try that again.PhD D: Yes! So, and maybe we won't laugh this time also.Grad E: OK. So remember to read the transcript number so that, uh, everyone knows that {disfmarker} what it is. And readyPostdoc A: Yeah.Grad E: Three, two, one.Professor C: Boy, is that ever efficient.Grad E: Yep. That's really fast.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah. E: Like I {disfmarker} I mean I guess if we have to do it again anyway, but, uhProfessor C: Yeah.PhD B: I guess, the only thing I'm not sure about is, um, how quickly can the transcribers scan over and fix the boundaries,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm.PhD B: and {disfmarker} I mean, is it pretty easyGrad E: I think it's gonna be one or two times real time at {disfmarker} Wow, excuse me, two or more times real time, right Cuz they have to at least listen to it.Professor C: Can we pipeline it so that say there's, uh, the transcriber gets done with a quarter of the meeting and then we {disfmarker} you run it through this other {disfmarker} other stuff Uh,Grad E: Well the other stuff is I B I'm just thinking that from a data {disfmarker} keeping - track - of - the - data point of view, it may be best to send them whole meetings at a time and not try to send them bits and pieces.Professor C: OK, so. Oh, that's right. So the first thing is the automatic thing, and then it's {disfmarker} then it's {disfmarker} then it's the transcribers tightening stuff up,Grad E: Right.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm.Professor C: and then it's IBM.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm, mm - hmm.Grad E: Right.Professor C: OK, so you might as well ha run the automatic thing over the entire meeting, and then {disfmarker} and then, uh, you would give IBM whatever was fixed.Postdoc A: And have them fix it over the entire meeting tooGrad E: Right.Professor C: Well, yeah, but start from the beginning and go to the end, right So if they were only half way through then that's what you'd give IBM.Postdoc A: OK.Professor C: RightPhD B: As of what point I w let's see who was talking about earlier that the effect of having a lot more data is quite different in Switchboard than it is in {disfmarker} in Broadcast News,PhD D: Well it's different for different tasks.Grad E: Yeah. It was Liz. Yeah.Professor C: yeah.PhD D: So it depends a lot on whether, you know, it {disfmarker} disambiguation is exactly the case where more data is better, right You're {disfmarker} you're {disfmarker} you can assume similar distributions,Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: but if you wanted to do disambiguation on a different type of, uh, test data then your training data, then that extra data wouldn't generalize,Grad E: Right.PhD D: so.Professor C: Right.Grad E: But, I think one of their p They {disfmarker} they had a couple points. w {comment} Uh, I think one of them was that" Well, maybe simpler algorithms and more data are {disfmarker} is better" . Less memory, faster operation, simpler. Right Because their simplest, most brain - dead algorithm did pretty darn wellProfessor C: Mm - hmm.Grad E: when you got {disfmarker} gave it a lot more data. And then also they were saying," Well, m You have access to a lot more data. Why are you sticking with a million words" I mean, their point was that this million - word corpus that everyone uses is apparently ten or fifteen years old. And everyone is still using it, so.Professor C: Yeah. But anyway, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it's {disfmarker} it's just the {disfmarker} the i it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's not really the conclusion they came to so much, as the conclusion that some of the, uh, uh, commenters in the crowd {vocalsound} came up withGrad E: But we could talk about this stuff, I think this would be fun to do. Right.Professor C: I mean th the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the speech side, the thing that @ @ always occurs to me is that if you {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} one person has a system that requires ten thousand hours to train on, and the other only requires a hundred, and they both do about the same because the hundred hour one was smarter, that's {disfmarker} that's gonna be better. because people, I mean, there isn't gonna be just one system that people train onGrad E: Yep.Professor C: and then that's it for the r for all of time. I mean, people are gonna be doing other different things, and so it {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these things matters {disfmarker} matter.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's it.Grad E: Yeah, so that's one of the slides they put up.Postdoc A: So, I mean, this was a very provocative slide. She put this up, and it was like this is {disfmarker} this p people kept saying," Can I see that slide again" Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: Yeah,Postdoc A: and then they'd make a comment, and one person said, well - known person said, um, you know," Before you dismiss forty - five years including my work {disfmarker}" PhD D: yeah.Grad E: Forty - five years of research.PhD D: Yeah.Grad G: Yeah.PhD D: But th you know, the same thing has happened in computational linguistics, right You look at the ACL papers coming out, and now there's sort of a turn back towards, OK we've learned statistic {disfmarker} you know, we're basically getting what we expect out of some statistical methods, and, you know, the there's arguments on both sides,Grad E: Yep.PhD D: so {disfmarker}Grad E: I think the matters is the thing that {disfmarker} that was misleading.Postdoc A: That was very offending, very offending.PhD mean. The {disfmarker} I guess the question on my mind is do we wait for the transcribers to adjust the marks for the whole meeting before we give anything to IBM, or do we go ahead and send them a sample Let their {disfmarker}Professor C: Why wouldn't we s @ @ w i if they were going sequentially through it, why wouldn't we give them {disfmarker} I mean i are we trying to get something done by the time Brian comesPhD B: Well I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean, I don't know.Grad E: That was the question. Though.Professor C: So if we {disfmarker} if we were, then it seems like giving them something, whatever they had gotten up to, would be better than nothing.PhD B: Yeah. Uh. That {disfmarker} I agree. I agree.Grad E: Well, I don't think {disfmarker} I mean, h they {disfmarker} they typically work for what, four hours, something like thatPostdoc A: Hmm, I gue hmm.Grad E: I think the they should be able to get through a whole meeting in one sitting. I would think, unless it's a lot harder than we think it is, which it could be, certainly.Postdoc A: If it's got like for speakers then I guess {disfmarker} I mean if {disfmarker}PhD B: We're just doing the individual channels,Grad E: Or seven or eight.PhD B: rightPostdoc A: Individual channels. Yeah.PhD B: So it's gonna be, depending on the number of people in the meeting, um,Postdoc A: I guess there is this issue of, you know, if {disfmarker} if the segmenter thought there was no speech on {disfmarker} on a particular stretch, on a particular channel,Grad E: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: and there really was, then, if it didn't show up in a mixed signal to verify, then it might be overlooked, so, I mean,

What was said about IBM

One meeting recording has been channelized and pre-segmented for delivery to IBM. A subset of Meeting Recorder data will be prepared (i. e. pre-segmented and manually adjusted) for delivery to IBM.

D: Yeah, yeah.Grad E: Is that {disfmarker} all {disfmarker} all of them are based on all the others, right Just, you {disfmarker} you can't say {disfmarker}PhD B: Maybe they should have said" focus" or something.Professor C: Right.Grad E: Yeah. I mean, so. {disfmarker} And I'm saying the same thing happened with speech recognition, right For a long time people were hand - c coding linguistic rules and then they discovered machine - learning worked better. And now they're throwing more and more data and worrying {disfmarker} perhaps worrying less and less about, uh, the exact details of the algorithms.PhD D: And {disfmarker} and then you hit this {disfmarker}Grad E: Except when they have a Eurospeech paper.Postdoc A: Yeah.Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: Anyway.Professor C: Anyway, tea is {disfmarker} tea is, uh, starting.Grad E: Shall we read some digits Are we gonna do one at a time Or should we read them all agai at once again.Professor C: Let's do it all at once.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's good.Professor C: We {disfmarker} @ @ {disfmarker} let's try that again.PhD D: Yes! So, and maybe we won't laugh this time also.Grad E: OK. So remember to read the transcript number so that, uh, everyone knows that {disfmarker} what it is. And readyPostdoc A: Yeah.Grad E: Three, two, one.Professor C: Boy, is that ever efficient.Grad E: Yep. That's really fast.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah. things is it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} I was almost gonna call it quadrimodal because {vocalsound} {disfmarker} because there was a whole lot of cases where it was zero percent.PhD F: Mm - hmm.Professor C: They just plain got it all right. And then there {disfmarker} and then there was another bunch that were couple percent or something.PhD F: Yeah. But if you p if you actually histogrammed it, and {disfmarker} it was a nice {disfmarker} uh, you know, it {disfmarker} it was {disfmarker} zero was the most of them,Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: A normal. Yeah.PhD F: but then there were {disfmarker} the others were sort of decaying from there.Professor C: Yeah, yeah.PhD F: And then there was the bump for the non - natives and then the pathological ones,Professor C: I see. I see.PhD F: so.Grad E: Yeah, cuz some of our non - natives are pretty non - native. So.Postdoc A: You {disfmarker} did you have, uh, something in the report about, uh, {disfmarker} about, uh, for f uh, forced alignmentProfessor C: Yeah.Postdoc A: Have you {disfmarker} have you started on thatPhD F: Oh, well, yeah, so I've been struggling with the forced alignments. Um. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So the scheme that I drew on the board last time where we tried to, um {vocalsound} allow reject models for the s speech from other speakers, um, {vocalsound} {vocalsound} most of the time it doesn't work very well. So, {vocalsound} um, {vocalsound} and the {disfmarker} I haven't done {disfmarker} I mean, the only way to check this right now was for me to actually {vocalsound} load these into X Waves and, you know, plus the alignments, and s play them and see where the {disfmarker}Professor C: Hmm.PhD F: And it looks {disfmarker} And so I looked at all of the utterances {disfmarker} to write something that would do that.PhD D: I mean, I guess in the future it won't be as much as an issue if transcribers are using the tightened boundaries to start with, then we have a good idea of where the forced alignment is constrained to.Postdoc A: Well, it's just, you know, a matter of we had the revolution {disfmarker} we had the revolution of improved, uh, interface, um, one month too late,PhD D: So I'm no I don't know if thisGrad E: Oh. Tools.Postdoc A: but it's like, you know, it's wonderful to have the revolution,PhD D: Oh it's {disfmarker} it's a {disfmarker}Postdoc A: so it's just a matter of {disfmarker} of, you know, from now on we'll be able to have things channelized to begin with.PhD D: yeah.Grad E: Right. And we'll just have to see how hard that is.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's right.Grad E: So {disfmarker} so whether the corrections take too much time.Postdoc A: That's right.Grad E: I was just thinking about the fact that if Thilo's missed these short segments, that might be quite time - consuming for them to insert them.PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc A: Good point.PhD D: But he {disfmarker} he also can adjust this minimum time duration constraint and then what you get is noises mostly,Postdoc A: Yeah.Grad E: Spurious.PhD D: but that might be OK, anGrad E: It might be easier to delete something that's wrong than to insert something that's missing.PhD D: Right. And you can also see in the waveform {disfmarker} exacGrad E: What do you think, JanePhD D: yeah.Professor C: If you can feel confident that what the {disfmarker} yeah, that there's actually something {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: that you're not gonna miss something,Grad E: Yeah. Cuz then {disfmarker} then you just delete it, and you don't E: Like I {disfmarker} I mean I guess if we have to do it again anyway, but, uhProfessor C: Yeah.PhD B: I guess, the only thing I'm not sure about is, um, how quickly can the transcribers scan over and fix the boundaries,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm.PhD B: and {disfmarker} I mean, is it pretty easyGrad E: I think it's gonna be one or two times real time at {disfmarker} Wow, excuse me, two or more times real time, right Cuz they have to at least listen to it.Professor C: Can we pipeline it so that say there's, uh, the transcriber gets done with a quarter of the meeting and then we {disfmarker} you run it through this other {disfmarker} other stuff Uh,Grad E: Well the other stuff is I B I'm just thinking that from a data {disfmarker} keeping - track - of - the - data point of view, it may be best to send them whole meetings at a time and not try to send them bits and pieces.Professor C: OK, so. Oh, that's right. So the first thing is the automatic thing, and then it's {disfmarker} then it's {disfmarker} then it's the transcribers tightening stuff up,Grad E: Right.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm.Professor C: and then it's IBM.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm, mm - hmm.Grad E: Right.Professor C: OK, so you might as well ha run the automatic thing over the entire meeting, and then {disfmarker} and then, uh, you would give IBM whatever was fixed.Postdoc A: And have them fix it over the entire meeting tooGrad E: Right.Professor C: Well, yeah, but start from the beginning and go to the end, right So if they were only half way through then that's what you'd give IBM.Postdoc A: OK.Professor C: RightPhD B: As of what point I from you, Chuck, in that one conversation, I don't know which {disfmarker} You probably know which one I mean, it's where you were on the lapel {vocalsound} and Morgan was sitting next to you and we can hear everything Morgan says.Postdoc A: Hmm.PhD F: But {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some of what you {disfmarker} I mean, you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} I actually went through all of those, there were I think fifty - five segments, {vocalsound} um, in {disfmarker} in X Waves, and {disfmarker} and sort of did a crude check, and {vocalsound} more often than not, it {disfmarker} it gets it wrong. So there's either the beginning, mostly the beginning word, {vocalsound} where th you, um, you know, Chuck talks somewhere into the segment, but the first, um, word of what he says, often" I" but it's very reduced" I," that's just aligned {vocalsound} to the beginning of someone else's speech, uh in that segment, which is cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} um, {vocalsound} I'm still tinkering with it, but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this {disfmarker} out of those, uh, {vocalsound} channels, so.Professor C: Unless maybe we do this, uh, um, cancellation business.PhD D: Right, but that's {disfmarker} I mean, that was our plan,PhD F: Yeah, right.PhD D: but it's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.Professor C: Oh, the short amount of time thing, right.PhD D: So {disfmarker} so we {disfmarker} you know, we had spent a lot of time, um, writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that, uh, kind of analysis,Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: but the HLT paper has, you know, it's a very crude measure

What were the preliminary recognition results

Preliminary recognition results were obtained for a subset of digits data. The error rate distribution was multimodal, reflecting differences in performance for native versus non-native speakers, and also possible pre-processing errors.

D: Yeah, yeah.Grad E: Is that {disfmarker} all {disfmarker} all of them are based on all the others, right Just, you {disfmarker} you can't say {disfmarker}PhD B: Maybe they should have said" focus" or something.Professor C: Right.Grad E: Yeah. I mean, so. {disfmarker} And I'm saying the same thing happened with speech recognition, right For a long time people were hand - c coding linguistic rules and then they discovered machine - learning worked better. And now they're throwing more and more data and worrying {disfmarker} perhaps worrying less and less about, uh, the exact details of the algorithms.PhD D: And {disfmarker} and then you hit this {disfmarker}Grad E: Except when they have a Eurospeech paper.Postdoc A: Yeah.Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: Anyway.Professor C: Anyway, tea is {disfmarker} tea is, uh, starting.Grad E: Shall we read some digits Are we gonna do one at a time Or should we read them all agai at once again.Professor C: Let's do it all at once.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's good.Professor C: We {disfmarker} @ @ {disfmarker} let's try that again.PhD D: Yes! So, and maybe we won't laugh this time also.Grad E: OK. So remember to read the transcript number so that, uh, everyone knows that {disfmarker} what it is. And readyPostdoc A: Yeah.Grad E: Three, two, one.Professor C: Boy, is that ever efficient.Grad E: Yep. That's really fast.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you can get that {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah.Postdoc A: oh, oh, get {disfmarker} you can get the, uh {disfmarker} you can get it to switch audio Uh, not last I tried,Grad E: Yeah.Postdoc A: but, um, maybe he's changed it again.Grad E: We should get him to do that because, uh, I think that would be much, much faster than going to the menu.Postdoc A: I disagree. There's a reason I disagree, and that is that, uh, you {disfmarker} it's very good to have a dissociation between the visual and the audio. There're times when I wanna hear the mixed signal, bu but I want to transcribe on the single channel. So right now {disfmarker}Grad E: Then maybe just buttons down at the bottom next to it.Postdoc A: Maybe, I just don't {disfmarker} I don't see that it's a {disfmarker}Grad E: Just something so that it's not in the menu option so that you can do it much faster.Postdoc A: Well, I mean, that's the i I {disfmarker} I think that might be a personal style thing. I find it really convenient the way {disfmarker} the way it's set up right now.Grad E: Well it just seems to me that if you wanna quickly {disfmarker}" well was that Jane, no, was that Chuck, no, was that Morgan" , right now, you have to go up to the menu, and each time, go up to the menu, select it, listen to that channel then click below, and then go back to the menu, select the next one, and then click below.Postdoc A: That's fine. Yeah, it's true.Grad E: So you can definitely streamline that with the i with the interface.Postdoc A: Yeah, it could be faster, but, you know, I mean, th in the ideal world {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad E: WhatPostdoc A: it would, you know go" kur - chunk!" Grad G: Oh, OK.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm.Grad E: And so it just was not doable with the current interface.Postdoc A: You know, I am thinking if we have a meeting with only four speakers and, you know, you could fire up a Transcriber interface for, y you know, in different windows, multiple ones, one for each channel. And it's sort of a {disfmarker} a hack but I mean it would be one way of seeing the visual form.Grad E: I think that if we decide that we need {disfmarker} that they need to see the visuals, we need to change the interface so that they can do that.Postdoc A: Yeah. Yeah.Professor C: So {disfmarker}PhD D: That's actually what I thought of, loading the chopped up waveforms, I mean, you know, that {disfmarker} that would make it faster {disfmarker}Grad E: An But isn't {disfmarker}Grad G: Hmm.Grad E: The chopped up waveforms.PhD B: The problem is if {disfmarker} if anything's cut off, you can't expand it from the chopped up {disfmarker}PhD D: So.Grad E: Isn't that {disfmarker}Grad G: Right.PhD D: Right, but if you a at some point {disfmarker}Grad E: And wouldn't that be the same {comment} as the mixed signalPhD D: No, I mean the individual channels that were chopped up that {disfmarker} it'd be nice to be able to go back and forth between those short segments.Professor C: Mm - hmm.PhD D: Cuz you don't really nee like nine tenths of the time you're throwing most of them out, but what you need are tho that particular channel, or that particular location,Grad E: Yeah.PhD D: and,Postdoc A: Yeah.PhD D: um, might be nice, cuz we save those out already, {comment} um, to be able to do that. But it won't work {disfmarker} to write something that would do that.PhD D: I mean, I guess in the future it won't be as much as an issue if transcribers are using the tightened boundaries to start with, then we have a good idea of where the forced alignment is constrained to.Postdoc A: Well, it's just, you know, a matter of we had the revolution {disfmarker} we had the revolution of improved, uh, interface, um, one month too late,PhD D: So I'm no I don't know if thisGrad E: Oh. Tools.Postdoc A: but it's like, you know, it's wonderful to have the revolution,PhD D: Oh it's {disfmarker} it's a {disfmarker}Postdoc A: so it's just a matter of {disfmarker} of, you know, from now on we'll be able to have things channelized to begin with.PhD D: yeah.Grad E: Right. And we'll just have to see how hard that is.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's right.Grad E: So {disfmarker} so whether the corrections take too much time.Postdoc A: That's right.Grad E: I was just thinking about the fact that if Thilo's missed these short segments, that might be quite time - consuming for them to insert them.PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc A: Good point.PhD D: But he {disfmarker} he also can adjust this minimum time duration constraint and then what you get is noises mostly,Postdoc A: Yeah.Grad E: Spurious.PhD D: but that might be OK, anGrad E: It might be easier to delete something that's wrong than to insert something that's missing.PhD D: Right. And you can also see in the waveform {disfmarker} exacGrad E: What do you think, JanePhD D: yeah.Professor C: If you can feel confident that what the {disfmarker} yeah, that there's actually something {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: that you're not gonna miss something,Grad E: Yeah. Cuz then {disfmarker} then you just delete it, and you don't from you, Chuck, in that one conversation, I don't know which {disfmarker} You probably know which one I mean, it's where you were on the lapel {vocalsound} and Morgan was sitting next to you and we can hear everything Morgan says.Postdoc A: Hmm.PhD F: But {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some of what you {disfmarker} I mean, you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} I actually went through all of those, there were I think fifty - five segments, {vocalsound} um, in {disfmarker} in X Waves, and {disfmarker} and sort of did a crude check, and {vocalsound} more often than not, it {disfmarker} it gets it wrong. So there's either the beginning, mostly the beginning word, {vocalsound} where th you, um, you know, Chuck talks somewhere into the segment, but the first, um, word of what he says, often" I" but it's very reduced" I," that's just aligned {vocalsound} to the beginning of someone else's speech, uh in that segment, which is cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} um, {vocalsound} I'm still tinkering with it, but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this {disfmarker} out of those, uh, {vocalsound} channels, so.Professor C: Unless maybe we do this, uh, um, cancellation business.PhD D: Right, but that's {disfmarker} I mean, that was our plan,PhD F: Yeah, right.PhD D: but it's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.Professor C: Oh, the short amount of time thing, right.PhD D: So {disfmarker} so we {disfmarker} you know, we had spent a lot of time, um, writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that, uh, kind of analysis,Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: but the HLT paper has, you know, it's a very crude measure

What did the team say about the transcriber interface

The Transcriber interface may require modifications if it becomes necessary for transcribers to quickly switch among waveform displays.

w let's see who was talking about earlier that the effect of having a lot more data is quite different in Switchboard than it is in {disfmarker} in Broadcast News,PhD D: Well it's different for different tasks.Grad E: Yeah. It was Liz. Yeah.Professor C: yeah.PhD D: So it depends a lot on whether, you know, it {disfmarker} disambiguation is exactly the case where more data is better, right You're {disfmarker} you're {disfmarker} you can assume similar distributions,Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: but if you wanted to do disambiguation on a different type of, uh, test data then your training data, then that extra data wouldn't generalize,Grad E: Right.PhD D: so.Professor C: Right.Grad E: But, I think one of their p They {disfmarker} they had a couple points. w {comment} Uh, I think one of them was that" Well, maybe simpler algorithms and more data are {disfmarker} is better" . Less memory, faster operation, simpler. Right Because their simplest, most brain - dead algorithm did pretty darn wellProfessor C: Mm - hmm.Grad E: when you got {disfmarker} gave it a lot more data. And then also they were saying," Well, m You have access to a lot more data. Why are you sticking with a million words" I mean, their point was that this million - word corpus that everyone uses is apparently ten or fifteen years old. And everyone is still using it, so.Professor C: Yeah. But anyway, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it's {disfmarker} it's just the {disfmarker} the i it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's not really the conclusion they came to so much, as the conclusion that some of the, uh, uh, commenters in the crowd {vocalsound} came up withGrad E: But we could talk about this stuff, I think this would be fun to do. Right.Professor C: things is it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} I was almost gonna call it quadrimodal because {vocalsound} {disfmarker} because there was a whole lot of cases where it was zero percent.PhD F: Mm - hmm.Professor C: They just plain got it all right. And then there {disfmarker} and then there was another bunch that were couple percent or something.PhD F: Yeah. But if you p if you actually histogrammed it, and {disfmarker} it was a nice {disfmarker} uh, you know, it {disfmarker} it was {disfmarker} zero was the most of them,Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: A normal. Yeah.PhD F: but then there were {disfmarker} the others were sort of decaying from there.Professor C: Yeah, yeah.PhD F: And then there was the bump for the non - natives and then the pathological ones,Professor C: I see. I see.PhD F: so.Grad E: Yeah, cuz some of our non - natives are pretty non - native. So.Postdoc A: You {disfmarker} did you have, uh, something in the report about, uh, {disfmarker} about, uh, for f uh, forced alignmentProfessor C: Yeah.Postdoc A: Have you {disfmarker} have you started on thatPhD F: Oh, well, yeah, so I've been struggling with the forced alignments. Um. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So the scheme that I drew on the board last time where we tried to, um {vocalsound} allow reject models for the s speech from other speakers, um, {vocalsound} {vocalsound} most of the time it doesn't work very well. So, {vocalsound} um, {vocalsound} and the {disfmarker} I haven't done {disfmarker} I mean, the only way to check this right now was for me to actually {vocalsound} load these into X Waves and, you know, plus the alignments, and s play them and see where the {disfmarker}Professor C: Hmm.PhD F: And it looks {disfmarker} And so I looked at all of the utterances from you, Chuck, in that one conversation, I don't know which {disfmarker} You probably know which one I mean, it's where you were on the lapel {vocalsound} and Morgan was sitting next to you and we can hear everything Morgan says.Postdoc A: Hmm.PhD F: But {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some of what you {disfmarker} I mean, you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} I actually went through all of those, there were I think fifty - five segments, {vocalsound} um, in {disfmarker} in X Waves, and {disfmarker} and sort of did a crude check, and {vocalsound} more often than not, it {disfmarker} it gets it wrong. So there's either the beginning, mostly the beginning word, {vocalsound} where th you, um, you know, Chuck talks somewhere into the segment, but the first, um, word of what he says, often" I" but it's very reduced" I," that's just aligned {vocalsound} to the beginning of someone else's speech, uh in that segment, which is cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} um, {vocalsound} I'm still tinkering with it, but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this {disfmarker} out of those, uh, {vocalsound} channels, so.Professor C: Unless maybe we do this, uh, um, cancellation business.PhD D: Right, but that's {disfmarker} I mean, that was our plan,PhD F: Yeah, right.PhD D: but it's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.Professor C: Oh, the short amount of time thing, right.PhD D: So {disfmarker} so we {disfmarker} you know, we had spent a lot of time, um, writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that, uh, kind of analysis,Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: but the HLT paper has, you know, it's a very crude measure mean. The {disfmarker} I guess the question on my mind is do we wait for the transcribers to adjust the marks for the whole meeting before we give anything to IBM, or do we go ahead and send them a sample Let their {disfmarker}Professor C: Why wouldn't we s @ @ w i if they were going sequentially through it, why wouldn't we give them {disfmarker} I mean i are we trying to get something done by the time Brian comesPhD B: Well I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean, I don't know.Grad E: That was the question. Though.Professor C: So if we {disfmarker} if we were, then it seems like giving them something, whatever they had gotten up to, would be better than nothing.PhD B: Yeah. Uh. That {disfmarker} I agree. I agree.Grad E: Well, I don't think {disfmarker} I mean, h they {disfmarker} they typically work for what, four hours, something like thatPostdoc A: Hmm, I gue hmm.Grad E: I think the they should be able to get through a whole meeting in one sitting. I would think, unless it's a lot harder than we think it is, which it could be, certainly.Postdoc A: If it's got like for speakers then I guess {disfmarker} I mean if {disfmarker}PhD B: We're just doing the individual channels,Grad E: Or seven or eight.PhD B: rightPostdoc A: Individual channels. Yeah.PhD B: So it's gonna be, depending on the number of people in the meeting, um,Postdoc A: I guess there is this issue of, you know, if {disfmarker} if the segmenter thought there was no speech on {disfmarker} on a particular stretch, on a particular channel,Grad E: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: and there really was, then, if it didn't show up in a mixed signal to verify, then it might be overlooked, so, I mean, No I {disfmarker} I agree that'd be nice. Yeah. OK.Grad E: OK.Professor C: So, um, Done with that Does any {disfmarker} I forget, does anybody, uh, working on any {disfmarker} any Eurospeech submission related to thisGrad E: I would like to try to do something on digits but I just don't know if we have time. I mean, it's due next Friday so we have to do the experiments and write the paper. So, I'm gonna try, but, uh, we'll just have to see. So actually I wanna get together with both Andreas and, uh, uh, Stephane with their respective systems.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah there was that {disfmarker} we that's right, we had that one conversation about, uh, what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what did it mean for, uh, one of those speakers to be pathological, was it a {disfmarker}Grad E: Right, and I haven't had s chance to sit down and listen.PhD F: Oh, I haven't {disfmarker} I haven't listened to them either,Grad E: I was going to do that this afternoon.PhD F: but there must be something wrong, I mean,Grad E: Well, Morgan and I were {disfmarker} were having a debate {comment} about that.PhD F: unless our {disfmarker}Grad E: Whereas I think it it's probably something pathologic and actually Stephane's results, I think confirm that. He s he did the Aurora system also got very lousy average error, like fifteen or {disfmarker} or, uh, fifteen to twenty percent average But then he ran it just on the lapel, and got about five or six percent word error So that {disfmarker} that means to me that somewhere in the other recordings there are some pathological cases. But, you know, we {disfmarker} th that may not be true. It may be just some of the segments they're just doing a lousy

What was said about mixed signals

Transcribers risk overlooking speech that is deeply embedded in the mixed signal. Should transcriptions be derived from each of the close-talking channels or from the mixed signal alone? The pre-segmentation tool does not perform well on short utterances, e. g. backchannels.

mean. The {disfmarker} I guess the question on my mind is do we wait for the transcribers to adjust the marks for the whole meeting before we give anything to IBM, or do we go ahead and send them a sample Let their {disfmarker}Professor C: Why wouldn't we s @ @ w i if they were going sequentially through it, why wouldn't we give them {disfmarker} I mean i are we trying to get something done by the time Brian comesPhD B: Well I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean, I don't know.Grad E: That was the question. Though.Professor C: So if we {disfmarker} if we were, then it seems like giving them something, whatever they had gotten up to, would be better than nothing.PhD B: Yeah. Uh. That {disfmarker} I agree. I agree.Grad E: Well, I don't think {disfmarker} I mean, h they {disfmarker} they typically work for what, four hours, something like thatPostdoc A: Hmm, I gue hmm.Grad E: I think the they should be able to get through a whole meeting in one sitting. I would think, unless it's a lot harder than we think it is, which it could be, certainly.Postdoc A: If it's got like for speakers then I guess {disfmarker} I mean if {disfmarker}PhD B: We're just doing the individual channels,Grad E: Or seven or eight.PhD B: rightPostdoc A: Individual channels. Yeah.PhD B: So it's gonna be, depending on the number of people in the meeting, um,Postdoc A: I guess there is this issue of, you know, if {disfmarker} if the segmenter thought there was no speech on {disfmarker} on a particular stretch, on a particular channel,Grad E: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: and there really was, then, if it didn't show up in a mixed signal to verify, then it might be overlooked, so, I mean, D: Yeah, yeah.Grad E: Is that {disfmarker} all {disfmarker} all of them are based on all the others, right Just, you {disfmarker} you can't say {disfmarker}PhD B: Maybe they should have said" focus" or something.Professor C: Right.Grad E: Yeah. I mean, so. {disfmarker} And I'm saying the same thing happened with speech recognition, right For a long time people were hand - c coding linguistic rules and then they discovered machine - learning worked better. And now they're throwing more and more data and worrying {disfmarker} perhaps worrying less and less about, uh, the exact details of the algorithms.PhD D: And {disfmarker} and then you hit this {disfmarker}Grad E: Except when they have a Eurospeech paper.Postdoc A: Yeah.Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: Anyway.Professor C: Anyway, tea is {disfmarker} tea is, uh, starting.Grad E: Shall we read some digits Are we gonna do one at a time Or should we read them all agai at once again.Professor C: Let's do it all at once.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's good.Professor C: We {disfmarker} @ @ {disfmarker} let's try that again.PhD D: Yes! So, and maybe we won't laugh this time also.Grad E: OK. So remember to read the transcript number so that, uh, everyone knows that {disfmarker} what it is. And readyPostdoc A: Yeah.Grad E: Three, two, one.Professor C: Boy, is that ever efficient.Grad E: Yep. That's really fast.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah. improve things by, um, {vocalsound} {vocalsound} by using, um, acoustic adaptation. Um, the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Right now I'm using the unadapted models for the forced alignments, and it's possible that you get considerably better results if you, uh, manage to adapt the, {vocalsound} uh, phone models to the speaker and the reject model to the {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to all the other speech. Um, soPhD B: Could you {disfmarker} could you at the same time adapt the reject model to the speech from all the other channelsProfessor C: That's what he just said.Grad E: That's what he was saying.PhD D: Yeah.PhD F: That's what I just said.PhD B: Oh, not just the speech from that {disfmarker} of the other people from that channel,PhD F: Right.PhD B: but the speech from the a actual other channels.PhD D: Right.PhD F: Oh, oh, I see. Um,Professor C: Oh.Grad E: I don't think so. I don't think that would work,PhD F: No, it {disfmarker}Grad E: right Because you'd {disfmarker} A lot of it's dominated by channel properties.PhD F: th Exactly.PhD D: But what you do wanna do is take the, even if it's klugey, take the segments {disfmarker} the synchronous segments, the ones from the HLT paper, where only that speaker was talking.PhD F: So you want to uPhD D: Use those for adaptation, cuz if you {disfmarker} if you use everything, then you get all the cross - talk in the adaptation, and it's just sort of blurred.PhD F: That's a good point.PhD B: If you {disfmarker}PhD F: Yep.PhD D: And that we know, I mean, we have that. And it's about roughly two - thirds, I mean, very roughly averaged.PhD F: Yeah.PhD D: That's not completely negligible. Like a third of it is bad for adaptation or so.PhD F: Mm - hmm.Grad from you, Chuck, in that one conversation, I don't know which {disfmarker} You probably know which one I mean, it's where you were on the lapel {vocalsound} and Morgan was sitting next to you and we can hear everything Morgan says.Postdoc A: Hmm.PhD F: But {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some of what you {disfmarker} I mean, you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} I actually went through all of those, there were I think fifty - five segments, {vocalsound} um, in {disfmarker} in X Waves, and {disfmarker} and sort of did a crude check, and {vocalsound} more often than not, it {disfmarker} it gets it wrong. So there's either the beginning, mostly the beginning word, {vocalsound} where th you, um, you know, Chuck talks somewhere into the segment, but the first, um, word of what he says, often" I" but it's very reduced" I," that's just aligned {vocalsound} to the beginning of someone else's speech, uh in that segment, which is cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} um, {vocalsound} I'm still tinkering with it, but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this {disfmarker} out of those, uh, {vocalsound} channels, so.Professor C: Unless maybe we do this, uh, um, cancellation business.PhD D: Right, but that's {disfmarker} I mean, that was our plan,PhD F: Yeah, right.PhD D: but it's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.Professor C: Oh, the short amount of time thing, right.PhD D: So {disfmarker} so we {disfmarker} you know, we had spent a lot of time, um, writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that, uh, kind of analysis,Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: but the HLT paper has, you know, it's a very crude measure {disfmarker} an idea, uh, for each channel about the start and end boundaries.Grad E: Oh, MNCM.PhD F: Mm - hmm.PhD B: We don't really care about like intermediate word boundaries, so {disfmarker}PhD F: No, that's how I've been looking at it.PhD B: Yeah.PhD D: Right.PhD F: I mean, I don't care that the individual words are aligned correctly,PhD B: Yeah.PhD F: but {vocalsound} you don't wanna, uh, infer from the alignment that someone spoke who didn't.PhD B: Right, exactly. So that's why I was wondering if it {disfmarker}PhD F: so, so {disfmarker}PhD B: I mean, maybe if it doesn't work for lapel stuff, we can just not use thatPhD F: Yeah.PhD B: and {disfmarker}PhD F: I haven't {disfmarker} I ha just haven't had the time to, um, do the same procedure on one of the {disfmarker} so I would need a k I would need a channel that has {vocalsound} a speaker whose {disfmarker} who has a lot of overlap but s you know, is a non - lapel mike. And, um, {vocalsound} {vocalsound} where preferably, also there's someone sitting next to them who talks a lot.Grad E: Hmm!PhD F: So, I {disfmarker}Grad E: So a meeting with me in it.PhD F: maybe someone can help me find a good candidate and then I would be willing toPhD B: We c you know what Maybe the best way to find that would be to look through these.PhD F: you know, handPhD B: Cuz you can see the seat numbers, and then you can see what type of mike they were using. And so we just look for, you know, somebody sitting next to Adam at one of the meetings {disfmarker}PhD D: Actually y we can tell from the data that we have,PhD F: From the insertions, maybePhD D: um, yeah,

What challenges needed to be overcome before submission for Eurospeech'01

Deleting segments of the recordings is expected to be very time-consuming for transcribers. More results are needed for generating adequate submissions for Eurospeech'01.

So let's say someone is talking to here, and then you have a little segment here. Well, is that part of the speech Is it part of the nonspeech I mean, w what do you embed it inPhD D: There's something nice, though, about keeping, and this is probably another discussion, keeping the stuff that Thilo's detector detected as possible speech and just marking it as not speech than deleting it. Because then when you align it, then the alignment can {disfmarker} you can put a reject model or whatever,Grad E: Oh, I see. So then they could just like put {disfmarker} Oh that's what you meant by just put an" X" there.PhD D: and you're consistent with th the automatic system,Grad E: Uh, that's an interesting idea.PhD D: whereas if you delete it {disfmarker}Grad E: So {disfmarker} so all they {disfmarker} So that all they would have to do is put like an" X" there.PhD D: Yeah, or some, you know, dummy reject modGrad E: So blank for {disfmarker} blank for silence," S" " S" for speech," X" " X" for something else.PhD D: whatever, yeah. That's actually a better way to do it cuz the a the forced alignment will probably be more consistent than {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Well, like, I think there's a complication which is that {disfmarker} that you can have speech and noise in sPhD D: I mean if it's just as easy, but {disfmarker}Postdoc A: uh, you know, on the same channel, the same speaker, so now sometimes you get a ni microphone pop and, uh, I mean, there're these fuzzy hybrid cases, and then the problem with the boundaries that have to be shifted around. It's not a simple {disfmarker} not a simple problem.PhD D: Anyway, quick question, though, at a high level do {disfmarker} to write something that would do that.PhD D: I mean, I guess in the future it won't be as much as an issue if transcribers are using the tightened boundaries to start with, then we have a good idea of where the forced alignment is constrained to.Postdoc A: Well, it's just, you know, a matter of we had the revolution {disfmarker} we had the revolution of improved, uh, interface, um, one month too late,PhD D: So I'm no I don't know if thisGrad E: Oh. Tools.Postdoc A: but it's like, you know, it's wonderful to have the revolution,PhD D: Oh it's {disfmarker} it's a {disfmarker}Postdoc A: so it's just a matter of {disfmarker} of, you know, from now on we'll be able to have things channelized to begin with.PhD D: yeah.Grad E: Right. And we'll just have to see how hard that is.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's right.Grad E: So {disfmarker} so whether the corrections take too much time.Postdoc A: That's right.Grad E: I was just thinking about the fact that if Thilo's missed these short segments, that might be quite time - consuming for them to insert them.PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc A: Good point.PhD D: But he {disfmarker} he also can adjust this minimum time duration constraint and then what you get is noises mostly,Postdoc A: Yeah.Grad E: Spurious.PhD D: but that might be OK, anGrad E: It might be easier to delete something that's wrong than to insert something that's missing.PhD D: Right. And you can also see in the waveform {disfmarker} exacGrad E: What do you think, JanePhD D: yeah.Professor C: If you can feel confident that what the {disfmarker} yeah, that there's actually something {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: that you're not gonna miss something,Grad E: Yeah. Cuz then {disfmarker} then you just delete it, and you don't D: Yeah, yeah.Grad E: Is that {disfmarker} all {disfmarker} all of them are based on all the others, right Just, you {disfmarker} you can't say {disfmarker}PhD B: Maybe they should have said" focus" or something.Professor C: Right.Grad E: Yeah. I mean, so. {disfmarker} And I'm saying the same thing happened with speech recognition, right For a long time people were hand - c coding linguistic rules and then they discovered machine - learning worked better. And now they're throwing more and more data and worrying {disfmarker} perhaps worrying less and less about, uh, the exact details of the algorithms.PhD D: And {disfmarker} and then you hit this {disfmarker}Grad E: Except when they have a Eurospeech paper.Postdoc A: Yeah.Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: Anyway.Professor C: Anyway, tea is {disfmarker} tea is, uh, starting.Grad E: Shall we read some digits Are we gonna do one at a time Or should we read them all agai at once again.Professor C: Let's do it all at once.Postdoc A: Yeah, that's good.Professor C: We {disfmarker} @ @ {disfmarker} let's try that again.PhD D: Yes! So, and maybe we won't laugh this time also.Grad E: OK. So remember to read the transcript number so that, uh, everyone knows that {disfmarker} what it is. And readyPostdoc A: Yeah.Grad E: Three, two, one.Professor C: Boy, is that ever efficient.Grad E: Yep. That's really fast.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah. improve things by, um, {vocalsound} {vocalsound} by using, um, acoustic adaptation. Um, the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Right now I'm using the unadapted models for the forced alignments, and it's possible that you get considerably better results if you, uh, manage to adapt the, {vocalsound} uh, phone models to the speaker and the reject model to the {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to all the other speech. Um, soPhD B: Could you {disfmarker} could you at the same time adapt the reject model to the speech from all the other channelsProfessor C: That's what he just said.Grad E: That's what he was saying.PhD D: Yeah.PhD F: That's what I just said.PhD B: Oh, not just the speech from that {disfmarker} of the other people from that channel,PhD F: Right.PhD B: but the speech from the a actual other channels.PhD D: Right.PhD F: Oh, oh, I see. Um,Professor C: Oh.Grad E: I don't think so. I don't think that would work,PhD F: No, it {disfmarker}Grad E: right Because you'd {disfmarker} A lot of it's dominated by channel properties.PhD F: th Exactly.PhD D: But what you do wanna do is take the, even if it's klugey, take the segments {disfmarker} the synchronous segments, the ones from the HLT paper, where only that speaker was talking.PhD F: So you want to uPhD D: Use those for adaptation, cuz if you {disfmarker} if you use everything, then you get all the cross - talk in the adaptation, and it's just sort of blurred.PhD F: That's a good point.PhD B: If you {disfmarker}PhD F: Yep.PhD D: And that we know, I mean, we have that. And it's about roughly two - thirds, I mean, very roughly averaged.PhD F: Yeah.PhD D: That's not completely negligible. Like a third of it is bad for adaptation or so.PhD F: Mm - hmm.Grad from you, Chuck, in that one conversation, I don't know which {disfmarker} You probably know which one I mean, it's where you were on the lapel {vocalsound} and Morgan was sitting next to you and we can hear everything Morgan says.Postdoc A: Hmm.PhD F: But {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some of what you {disfmarker} I mean, you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} I actually went through all of those, there were I think fifty - five segments, {vocalsound} um, in {disfmarker} in X Waves, and {disfmarker} and sort of did a crude check, and {vocalsound} more often than not, it {disfmarker} it gets it wrong. So there's either the beginning, mostly the beginning word, {vocalsound} where th you, um, you know, Chuck talks somewhere into the segment, but the first, um, word of what he says, often" I" but it's very reduced" I," that's just aligned {vocalsound} to the beginning of someone else's speech, uh in that segment, which is cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} um, {vocalsound} I'm still tinkering with it, but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this {disfmarker} out of those, uh, {vocalsound} channels, so.Professor C: Unless maybe we do this, uh, um, cancellation business.PhD D: Right, but that's {disfmarker} I mean, that was our plan,PhD F: Yeah, right.PhD D: but it's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.Professor C: Oh, the short amount of time thing, right.PhD D: So {disfmarker} so we {disfmarker} you know, we had spent a lot of time, um, writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that, uh, kind of analysis,Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: but the HLT paper has, you know, it's a very crude measure

What is the future of data alignments

Future efforts will involve an attempt to get good forced alignments on digits data and generate a report for Eurospeech'01.

E: Like I {disfmarker} I mean I guess if we have to do it again anyway, but, uhProfessor C: Yeah.PhD B: I guess, the only thing I'm not sure about is, um, how quickly can the transcribers scan over and fix the boundaries,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm.PhD B: and {disfmarker} I mean, is it pretty easyGrad E: I think it's gonna be one or two times real time at {disfmarker} Wow, excuse me, two or more times real time, right Cuz they have to at least listen to it.Professor C: Can we pipeline it so that say there's, uh, the transcriber gets done with a quarter of the meeting and then we {disfmarker} you run it through this other {disfmarker} other stuff Uh,Grad E: Well the other stuff is I B I'm just thinking that from a data {disfmarker} keeping - track - of - the - data point of view, it may be best to send them whole meetings at a time and not try to send them bits and pieces.Professor C: OK, so. Oh, that's right. So the first thing is the automatic thing, and then it's {disfmarker} then it's {disfmarker} then it's the transcribers tightening stuff up,Grad E: Right.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm.Professor C: and then it's IBM.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm, mm - hmm.Grad E: Right.Professor C: OK, so you might as well ha run the automatic thing over the entire meeting, and then {disfmarker} and then, uh, you would give IBM whatever was fixed.Postdoc A: And have them fix it over the entire meeting tooGrad E: Right.Professor C: Well, yeah, but start from the beginning and go to the end, right So if they were only half way through then that's what you'd give IBM.Postdoc A: OK.Professor C: RightPhD B: As of what point I from you, Chuck, in that one conversation, I don't know which {disfmarker} You probably know which one I mean, it's where you were on the lapel {vocalsound} and Morgan was sitting next to you and we can hear everything Morgan says.Postdoc A: Hmm.PhD F: But {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some of what you {disfmarker} I mean, you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} I actually went through all of those, there were I think fifty - five segments, {vocalsound} um, in {disfmarker} in X Waves, and {disfmarker} and sort of did a crude check, and {vocalsound} more often than not, it {disfmarker} it gets it wrong. So there's either the beginning, mostly the beginning word, {vocalsound} where th you, um, you know, Chuck talks somewhere into the segment, but the first, um, word of what he says, often" I" but it's very reduced" I," that's just aligned {vocalsound} to the beginning of someone else's speech, uh in that segment, which is cross - talk. So, {vocalsound} um, {vocalsound} I'm still tinkering with it, but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this {disfmarker} out of those, uh, {vocalsound} channels, so.Professor C: Unless maybe we do this, uh, um, cancellation business.PhD D: Right, but that's {disfmarker} I mean, that was our plan,PhD F: Yeah, right.PhD D: but it's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time.Professor C: Oh, the short amount of time thing, right.PhD D: So {disfmarker} so we {disfmarker} you know, we had spent a lot of time, um, writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that, uh, kind of analysis,Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: but the HLT paper has, you know, it's a very crude measure No I {disfmarker} I agree that'd be nice. Yeah. OK.Grad E: OK.Professor C: So, um, Done with that Does any {disfmarker} I forget, does anybody, uh, working on any {disfmarker} any Eurospeech submission related to thisGrad E: I would like to try to do something on digits but I just don't know if we have time. I mean, it's due next Friday so we have to do the experiments and write the paper. So, I'm gonna try, but, uh, we'll just have to see. So actually I wanna get together with both Andreas and, uh, uh, Stephane with their respective systems.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah there was that {disfmarker} we that's right, we had that one conversation about, uh, what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what did it mean for, uh, one of those speakers to be pathological, was it a {disfmarker}Grad E: Right, and I haven't had s chance to sit down and listen.PhD F: Oh, I haven't {disfmarker} I haven't listened to them either,Grad E: I was going to do that this afternoon.PhD F: but there must be something wrong, I mean,Grad E: Well, Morgan and I were {disfmarker} were having a debate {comment} about that.PhD F: unless our {disfmarker}Grad E: Whereas I think it it's probably something pathologic and actually Stephane's results, I think confirm that. He s he did the Aurora system also got very lousy average error, like fifteen or {disfmarker} or, uh, fifteen to twenty percent average But then he ran it just on the lapel, and got about five or six percent word error So that {disfmarker} that means to me that somewhere in the other recordings there are some pathological cases. But, you know, we {disfmarker} th that may not be true. It may be just some of the segments they're just doing a lousy mean. The {disfmarker} I guess the question on my mind is do we wait for the transcribers to adjust the marks for the whole meeting before we give anything to IBM, or do we go ahead and send them a sample Let their {disfmarker}Professor C: Why wouldn't we s @ @ w i if they were going sequentially through it, why wouldn't we give them {disfmarker} I mean i are we trying to get something done by the time Brian comesPhD B: Well I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean, I don't know.Grad E: That was the question. Though.Professor C: So if we {disfmarker} if we were, then it seems like giving them something, whatever they had gotten up to, would be better than nothing.PhD B: Yeah. Uh. That {disfmarker} I agree. I agree.Grad E: Well, I don't think {disfmarker} I mean, h they {disfmarker} they typically work for what, four hours, something like thatPostdoc A: Hmm, I gue hmm.Grad E: I think the they should be able to get through a whole meeting in one sitting. I would think, unless it's a lot harder than we think it is, which it could be, certainly.Postdoc A: If it's got like for speakers then I guess {disfmarker} I mean if {disfmarker}PhD B: We're just doing the individual channels,Grad E: Or seven or eight.PhD B: rightPostdoc A: Individual channels. Yeah.PhD B: So it's gonna be, depending on the number of people in the meeting, um,Postdoc A: I guess there is this issue of, you know, if {disfmarker} if the segmenter thought there was no speech on {disfmarker} on a particular stretch, on a particular channel,Grad E: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: and there really was, then, if it didn't show up in a mixed signal to verify, then it might be overlooked, so, I mean, So. That's good.Grad E: But, uh, yeah maybe an agenda, or at least some things to talk about would be a good idea.Professor C: Well we can start gathering those {disfmarker} those ideas, but then we {disfmarker} we should firm it up by next {disfmarker} next Thursday's meeting.Postdoc A: Will we have time to, um, to prepare something that we {disfmarker} in the format we were planning for the IBM transcribers by then, or {disfmarker}Grad E: Oh yeah. Absolutely.Postdoc A: OK.Grad E: So have you heard back from Brian about that, ChuckPhD B: Yes, um, he's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I'm sorry, I should have forwarded that along. Uh, {vocalsound} oh I {disfmarker} I think I mentioned at the last meeting, he said that, um, he talked to them and it was fine {disfmarker} with the beeps they would be {disfmarker} That's easy for them to do.Grad E: Great. OK. So, uh, oh, though Thi - Thilo isn't here, um, but, uh, I {disfmarker} I have the program to insert the beeps. What I don't have is something to parse the output of the channelized transcripts to find out where to put the beeps, but that should be really easy to do. So do we have a meeting that that's been done with,Postdoc A: He's {disfmarker} he's {disfmarker}Grad E: that we've tightened it up to the point where we can actually give it to IBM and have them try it outPostdoc A: He generated, um, a channel - wise presegmented version of a meeting, but it was Robustness rather than EDU so I guess depends on whether we're willing to use RobustnessPhD B: Well for this experiment I think we can use pre pretty much anything.Grad E: Mm - hmm.Postdoc A: OK.PhD B: This experiment of just {disfmarker}Grad E: Well we

What was said in the meeting

The group discussed the preparation of a data sample for IBM, the manual adjustment of time bins by transcribers, recognition results for a test set of digits data, and forced alignments. Participants also talked about Eurospeech 2001 submissions, and exchanged comments on the proceedings of the recently attended Human Language Technologies conference (HLT'01). Preliminary recognition results were presented for a subset of digits data. Efforts to deal with cross-talk and improve forced alignments for non-digits data were also discussed.

B: That's {disfmarker} as far as my stuff goes,Professor C: What's {disfmarker} what's on {disfmarker}Grad B: yeah, well I {vocalsound} tried this mean subtraction method.Professor C: Yeah.Grad B: Um. Due to Avendano, {vocalsound} I'm taking s um {vocalsound} six seconds of speech, um {vocalsound} I'm using two second {vocalsound} FFT analysis frames, {vocalsound} stepped by a half second so it's a quarter length step and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I take that frame and four f the four {disfmarker} I take {disfmarker} Sorry, I take the current frame and the four past frames and the {vocalsound} four future frames and that adds up to six seconds of speech. And I calculate um {vocalsound} the spectral mean, {vocalsound} of the log magnitude spectrum {pause} over that N. I use that to normalize the s the current center frame {vocalsound} by mean subtraction. And I then {disfmarker} then I move to the next frame and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I do it again. Well, actually I calculate all the means first and then I do the subtraction. And um {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} I tried that with HDK, the Aurora setup of HDK training on clean TI - digits, and um {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} it helped um in a phony reverberation case um {vocalsound} where I just used the simulated impulse response um {vocalsound} the error rate went from something like eighty it was from something like eighteen percent {vocalsound} to um four percent. And on meeting rec recorder far mike digits, mike {disfmarker} on channel F, it went from um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} forty - one percent error to eight percent error.PhD E: On {disfmarker} on the real data, not with artificial reverbGrad B: Right.PhD E: Uh - huh.Grad B: And that {disfmarker} that was um {vocalsound} trained on clean speech only, which I'm guessing how different it is from you know, the canonical ones,Professor C: Right.PhD E: just to get an idea {disfmarker} a rough idea of h if it really even makes a difference.Professor C: You can get a little feeling for it that way, yeah that is probably right.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: I mean uh my {disfmarker} my guess would be that this is {disfmarker} since TIMIT's read speech that this would be less of a big deal,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you went and looked at spontaneous speech it'd be more {disfmarker} more of one.PhD E: Right. Right.Professor C: And the other thing would be, say, if you had these ten events, you'd wanna see, well what if you took two events or four events or ten events or t and you know, and {disfmarker} and hopefully there should be some point at which {vocalsound} having more information doesn't tell you really all that much more about what the phones are.PhD E: Mm - hmm. You could define other events as being sequences of these events too.Professor C: Uh, you could, but the thing is, what he's talking about here is a uh {disfmarker} a translation to a per - frame feature vector, so there's no sequence in that, I think. I think it's just a {disfmarker}PhD E: Unless you did like a second pass over it or something after you've got your {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but we're just talking about something simple here, yeah, to see if {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm adding complexity.Professor C: Yeah. Just {disfmarker} You know. The idea is with a {disfmarker} with a very simple statistical structure, could you {disfmarker} could you uh at least verify that you've chosen features that {vocalsound} are sufficient.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: OK, and you were three outputs, and this one has fPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: whatever, fifty - six, or something,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you were to sum up the probabilities for the voiced and for the unvoiced and for the silence here, we've found in the past you'll do better at voiced - unvoiced - silence than you do with this one. So just having the three output thing doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't really buy you anything. The issue is what you feed it.PhD D: Yeah. Yeah, I have {disfmarker} yeah.Professor C: So uhPhD D: No {disfmarker}PhD E: So you're saying take the features that go into the voiced - unvoiced - silence net and feed those into the other one, as additional inputs, rather than having a separate {disfmarker}Professor C: w W well that's another way.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: That wasn't what I was saying but yeah that's certainly another thing to do. No I was just trying to say if you b if you bring this into the picture over this, what more does it buy youPhD E: Mmm.Professor C: And what I was saying is that the only thing I think that it buys you is um based on whether you feed it something different. And something different in some fundamental way. And so the kind of thing that {disfmarker} that she was talking about before, was looking at something uh ab um {disfmarker} something uh about the difference between the {disfmarker} the uh um log FFT uh log power uh and the log magnitude uh F F - spectrum uh and the um uh filter bank.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: And so the filter bank is chosen in fact to sort of integrate out the effects of pitch and she's saying you know trying {disfmarker} So the to tell you um" does the spectrum look like that or does it look like that" .PhD D: Mm - hmm.Grad A: Oh. R {disfmarker} R {disfmarker} R - zero.Professor C: RightPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: So if it's {disfmarker} if it's um {disfmarker} if it's low energy uh but the {disfmarker} but the spectrum looks like that or like that, it's probably silence.PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Uh but if it's low energy and the spectrum looks like that, it's probably unvoiced.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: So if you just {disfmarker} if you just had to pick two features to determine voiced - unvoiced, you'd pick something about the spectrum like uh R - one over R - zero, um and R - zeroPhD D: Mm - hmm, OK.Professor C: or i i you know you'd have some other energy measure and like in the old days people did like uh zero crossing counts.PhD D: Yeah, yeah.Professor C: Right. S SPhD D: Well, I can also th use this.Professor C: Yeah. Um,PhD D: Bec - because the result are a little bit better but we have in a point that everything is more or less the similar {disfmarker} more or less similar.Professor C: Yeah. But umPhD D: It's not quite better.Professor C: Right, but it seemed to me that what you were what you were getting at before was that there is something about the difference between the original signal or the original FFT and with the filter which is what {disfmarker} and the variance was one take uh on it.PhD D: Yeah, I used this too.Professor C: Right. But it {disfmarker} it could be something else. Suppose you didn't have anything like that. Then in that case, if you have two nets, Alright, and this one has Professor C: OK. So uh, he's not here,PhD D: So.Professor C: so you get to {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah, I will try to explain the thing that I did this {disfmarker} this week {disfmarker} during this week.Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: Well eh you know that I work {disfmarker} I begin to work with a new feature to detect voice - unvoice.PhD E: Mm - hmm.PhD D: What I trying two MLP to {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} with this new feature and the fifteen feature uh from the eh bus base systemPhD E: The {disfmarker} the mel cepstrumPhD D: No, satly the mes the Mel Cepstrum, the new base system {disfmarker} the new base system.PhD E: Oh the {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah, we {disfmarker}PhD E: OK, the Aurora system.PhD D: yeah the Aurora system with the new filter, VAD or something like that.PhD E: OK.PhD D: And I'm trying two MLP, one one that only have t three output, voice, unvoice, and silence,Professor C: Mm - hmm.PhD D: and other one that have fifty - six output. The probabilities of the allophone. And I tried to do some experiment of recognition with that and only have result with {disfmarker} with the MLP with the three output. And I put together the fifteen features and the three MLP output. And, well, the result are li a little bit better, but more or less similar.Professor C: Uh, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm slightly confused.PhD E: Hmm.Professor C: What {disfmarker} what feeds the uh {disfmarker} the three - output netPhD D: Voice, unvoice, and siProfessor C: No no, what feeds it What features does it seePhD D: The feature {disfmarker} the input The inputs are the fifteen {disfmarker} the fifteen uh bases feature.Professor C: Uh - huh.PhD D: the {disfmarker} with the new code. And the

Summarize the discussion about voice-unvoice detection

The existing net for voice-unvoice had three outputs, voice, unvoice, and silence. It took fifteen features as inputs. The team discussed how energy measures could be incorporated to improve performance on this task. The nets took around a day to train, so the team could run more experiments. The current performance on the task was unsatisfactory.

B: That's {disfmarker} as far as my stuff goes,Professor C: What's {disfmarker} what's on {disfmarker}Grad B: yeah, well I {vocalsound} tried this mean subtraction method.Professor C: Yeah.Grad B: Um. Due to Avendano, {vocalsound} I'm taking s um {vocalsound} six seconds of speech, um {vocalsound} I'm using two second {vocalsound} FFT analysis frames, {vocalsound} stepped by a half second so it's a quarter length step and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I take that frame and four f the four {disfmarker} I take {disfmarker} Sorry, I take the current frame and the four past frames and the {vocalsound} four future frames and that adds up to six seconds of speech. And I calculate um {vocalsound} the spectral mean, {vocalsound} of the log magnitude spectrum {pause} over that N. I use that to normalize the s the current center frame {vocalsound} by mean subtraction. And I then {disfmarker} then I move to the next frame and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I do it again. Well, actually I calculate all the means first and then I do the subtraction. And um {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} I tried that with HDK, the Aurora setup of HDK training on clean TI - digits, and um {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} it helped um in a phony reverberation case um {vocalsound} where I just used the simulated impulse response um {vocalsound} the error rate went from something like eighty it was from something like eighteen percent {vocalsound} to um four percent. And on meeting rec recorder far mike digits, mike {disfmarker} on channel F, it went from um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} forty - one percent error to eight percent error.PhD E: On {disfmarker} on the real data, not with artificial reverbGrad B: Right.PhD E: Uh - huh.Grad B: And that {disfmarker} that was um {vocalsound} trained on clean speech only, which I'm guessing how different it is from you know, the canonical ones,Professor C: Right.PhD E: just to get an idea {disfmarker} a rough idea of h if it really even makes a difference.Professor C: You can get a little feeling for it that way, yeah that is probably right.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: I mean uh my {disfmarker} my guess would be that this is {disfmarker} since TIMIT's read speech that this would be less of a big deal,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you went and looked at spontaneous speech it'd be more {disfmarker} more of one.PhD E: Right. Right.Professor C: And the other thing would be, say, if you had these ten events, you'd wanna see, well what if you took two events or four events or ten events or t and you know, and {disfmarker} and hopefully there should be some point at which {vocalsound} having more information doesn't tell you really all that much more about what the phones are.PhD E: Mm - hmm. You could define other events as being sequences of these events too.Professor C: Uh, you could, but the thing is, what he's talking about here is a uh {disfmarker} a translation to a per - frame feature vector, so there's no sequence in that, I think. I think it's just a {disfmarker}PhD E: Unless you did like a second pass over it or something after you've got your {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but we're just talking about something simple here, yeah, to see if {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm adding complexity.Professor C: Yeah. Just {disfmarker} You know. The idea is with a {disfmarker} with a very simple statistical structure, could you {disfmarker} could you uh at least verify that you've chosen features that {vocalsound} are sufficient.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: OK, and you were three outputs, and this one has fPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: whatever, fifty - six, or something,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you were to sum up the probabilities for the voiced and for the unvoiced and for the silence here, we've found in the past you'll do better at voiced - unvoiced - silence than you do with this one. So just having the three output thing doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't really buy you anything. The issue is what you feed it.PhD D: Yeah. Yeah, I have {disfmarker} yeah.Professor C: So uhPhD D: No {disfmarker}PhD E: So you're saying take the features that go into the voiced - unvoiced - silence net and feed those into the other one, as additional inputs, rather than having a separate {disfmarker}Professor C: w W well that's another way.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: That wasn't what I was saying but yeah that's certainly another thing to do. No I was just trying to say if you b if you bring this into the picture over this, what more does it buy youPhD E: Mmm.Professor C: And what I was saying is that the only thing I think that it buys you is um based on whether you feed it something different. And something different in some fundamental way. And so the kind of thing that {disfmarker} that she was talking about before, was looking at something uh ab um {disfmarker} something uh about the difference between the {disfmarker} the uh um log FFT uh log power uh and the log magnitude uh F F - spectrum uh and the um uh filter bank.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: And so the filter bank is chosen in fact to sort of integrate out the effects of pitch and she's saying you know trying {disfmarker} So the to tell you um" does the spectrum look like that or does it look like that" .PhD D: Mm - hmm.Grad A: Oh. R {disfmarker} R {disfmarker} R - zero.Professor C: RightPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: So if it's {disfmarker} if it's um {disfmarker} if it's low energy uh but the {disfmarker} but the spectrum looks like that or like that, it's probably silence.PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Uh but if it's low energy and the spectrum looks like that, it's probably unvoiced.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: So if you just {disfmarker} if you just had to pick two features to determine voiced - unvoiced, you'd pick something about the spectrum like uh R - one over R - zero, um and R - zeroPhD D: Mm - hmm, OK.Professor C: or i i you know you'd have some other energy measure and like in the old days people did like uh zero crossing counts.PhD D: Yeah, yeah.Professor C: Right. S SPhD D: Well, I can also th use this.Professor C: Yeah. Um,PhD D: Bec - because the result are a little bit better but we have in a point that everything is more or less the similar {disfmarker} more or less similar.Professor C: Yeah. But umPhD D: It's not quite better.Professor C: Right, but it seemed to me that what you were what you were getting at before was that there is something about the difference between the original signal or the original FFT and with the filter which is what {disfmarker} and the variance was one take uh on it.PhD D: Yeah, I used this too.Professor C: Right. But it {disfmarker} it could be something else. Suppose you didn't have anything like that. Then in that case, if you have two nets, Alright, and this one has Professor C: OK. So uh, he's not here,PhD D: So.Professor C: so you get to {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah, I will try to explain the thing that I did this {disfmarker} this week {disfmarker} during this week.Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: Well eh you know that I work {disfmarker} I begin to work with a new feature to detect voice - unvoice.PhD E: Mm - hmm.PhD D: What I trying two MLP to {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} with this new feature and the fifteen feature uh from the eh bus base systemPhD E: The {disfmarker} the mel cepstrumPhD D: No, satly the mes the Mel Cepstrum, the new base system {disfmarker} the new base system.PhD E: Oh the {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah, we {disfmarker}PhD E: OK, the Aurora system.PhD D: yeah the Aurora system with the new filter, VAD or something like that.PhD E: OK.PhD D: And I'm trying two MLP, one one that only have t three output, voice, unvoice, and silence,Professor C: Mm - hmm.PhD D: and other one that have fifty - six output. The probabilities of the allophone. And I tried to do some experiment of recognition with that and only have result with {disfmarker} with the MLP with the three output. And I put together the fifteen features and the three MLP output. And, well, the result are li a little bit better, but more or less similar.Professor C: Uh, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm slightly confused.PhD E: Hmm.Professor C: What {disfmarker} what feeds the uh {disfmarker} the three - output netPhD D: Voice, unvoice, and siProfessor C: No no, what feeds it What features does it seePhD D: The feature {disfmarker} the input The inputs are the fifteen {disfmarker} the fifteen uh bases feature.Professor C: Uh - huh.PhD D: the {disfmarker} with the new code. And the

What did the professor think about improving voice-unvoice detection

The professor explained that the task typically relied on R-one over R-zero as a measure. He thought that the team should explore the difference between the log FFT and the log magnitude FF spectrum and the filter bank. These were fundamentally different measures which could help the model.

B: That's {disfmarker} as far as my stuff goes,Professor C: What's {disfmarker} what's on {disfmarker}Grad B: yeah, well I {vocalsound} tried this mean subtraction method.Professor C: Yeah.Grad B: Um. Due to Avendano, {vocalsound} I'm taking s um {vocalsound} six seconds of speech, um {vocalsound} I'm using two second {vocalsound} FFT analysis frames, {vocalsound} stepped by a half second so it's a quarter length step and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I take that frame and four f the four {disfmarker} I take {disfmarker} Sorry, I take the current frame and the four past frames and the {vocalsound} four future frames and that adds up to six seconds of speech. And I calculate um {vocalsound} the spectral mean, {vocalsound} of the log magnitude spectrum {pause} over that N. I use that to normalize the s the current center frame {vocalsound} by mean subtraction. And I then {disfmarker} then I move to the next frame and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I do it again. Well, actually I calculate all the means first and then I do the subtraction. And um {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} I tried that with HDK, the Aurora setup of HDK training on clean TI - digits, and um {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} it helped um in a phony reverberation case um {vocalsound} where I just used the simulated impulse response um {vocalsound} the error rate went from something like eighty it was from something like eighteen percent {vocalsound} to um four percent. And on meeting rec recorder far mike digits, mike {disfmarker} on channel F, it went from um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} forty - one percent error to eight percent error.PhD E: On {disfmarker} on the real data, not with artificial reverbGrad B: Right.PhD E: Uh - huh.Grad B: And that {disfmarker} that was um {vocalsound} trained on clean speech only, which I'm guessing how different it is from you know, the canonical ones,Professor C: Right.PhD E: just to get an idea {disfmarker} a rough idea of h if it really even makes a difference.Professor C: You can get a little feeling for it that way, yeah that is probably right.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: I mean uh my {disfmarker} my guess would be that this is {disfmarker} since TIMIT's read speech that this would be less of a big deal,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you went and looked at spontaneous speech it'd be more {disfmarker} more of one.PhD E: Right. Right.Professor C: And the other thing would be, say, if you had these ten events, you'd wanna see, well what if you took two events or four events or ten events or t and you know, and {disfmarker} and hopefully there should be some point at which {vocalsound} having more information doesn't tell you really all that much more about what the phones are.PhD E: Mm - hmm. You could define other events as being sequences of these events too.Professor C: Uh, you could, but the thing is, what he's talking about here is a uh {disfmarker} a translation to a per - frame feature vector, so there's no sequence in that, I think. I think it's just a {disfmarker}PhD E: Unless you did like a second pass over it or something after you've got your {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but we're just talking about something simple here, yeah, to see if {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm adding complexity.Professor C: Yeah. Just {disfmarker} You know. The idea is with a {disfmarker} with a very simple statistical structure, could you {disfmarker} could you uh at least verify that you've chosen features that {vocalsound} are sufficient.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: OK, and you were three outputs, and this one has fPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: whatever, fifty - six, or something,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you were to sum up the probabilities for the voiced and for the unvoiced and for the silence here, we've found in the past you'll do better at voiced - unvoiced - silence than you do with this one. So just having the three output thing doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't really buy you anything. The issue is what you feed it.PhD D: Yeah. Yeah, I have {disfmarker} yeah.Professor C: So uhPhD D: No {disfmarker}PhD E: So you're saying take the features that go into the voiced - unvoiced - silence net and feed those into the other one, as additional inputs, rather than having a separate {disfmarker}Professor C: w W well that's another way.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: That wasn't what I was saying but yeah that's certainly another thing to do. No I was just trying to say if you b if you bring this into the picture over this, what more does it buy youPhD E: Mmm.Professor C: And what I was saying is that the only thing I think that it buys you is um based on whether you feed it something different. And something different in some fundamental way. And so the kind of thing that {disfmarker} that she was talking about before, was looking at something uh ab um {disfmarker} something uh about the difference between the {disfmarker} the uh um log FFT uh log power uh and the log magnitude uh F F - spectrum uh and the um uh filter bank.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: And so the filter bank is chosen in fact to sort of integrate out the effects of pitch and she's saying you know trying {disfmarker} So the I think that he is in Las Vegas or something like that.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah. So he's {disfmarker} he's going to ICASSP which is good. I {disfmarker} I don't know if there are many people who are going to ICASSPPhD D: Yeah.Professor C: so {disfmarker} so I thought, make sure somebody go.PhD D: Yeah.PhD E: Do {disfmarker} have {disfmarker} Have people sort of stopped going to ICASSP in recent yearsProfessor C: Um, people are less consistent about going to ICASSP and I think it's still {disfmarker} it's still a reasonable forum for students to {disfmarker} to present things. Uh, it's {disfmarker} I think for engineering students of any kind, I think it's {disfmarker} it's if you haven't been there much, it's good to go to, uh to get a feel for things, a range of things, not just speech. Uh. But I think for {disfmarker} for sort of dyed - in - the - wool speech people, um I think that ICSLP and Eurospeech are much more targeted.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Uh. And then there's these other meetings, like HLT and {disfmarker} and uh ASRU {disfmarker}PhD E:Professor C: so there's {disfmarker} there's actually plenty of meetings that are really relevant to {disfmarker} to uh computational uh speech processing of one sort or another.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Um. So. I mean, I mostly just ignored it because I was too busy and {vocalsound} didn't get to it. So uh Wanna talk a little bit about what we were talking about this morningGrad A: Oh! um {pause} uh {pause} Yeah.Professor C: Just briefly, or {pause} Or anything elseGrad A: So. I {disfmarker} I guess some of the progress, I {disfmarker} I've been getting a {disfmarker} getting my committee members for the quals. And um so far I have to tell you um" does the spectrum look like that or does it look like that" .PhD D: Mm - hmm.Grad A: Oh. R {disfmarker} R {disfmarker} R - zero.Professor C: RightPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: So if it's {disfmarker} if it's um {disfmarker} if it's low energy uh but the {disfmarker} but the spectrum looks like that or like that, it's probably silence.PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Uh but if it's low energy and the spectrum looks like that, it's probably unvoiced.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: So if you just {disfmarker} if you just had to pick two features to determine voiced - unvoiced, you'd pick something about the spectrum like uh R - one over R - zero, um and R - zeroPhD D: Mm - hmm, OK.Professor C: or i i you know you'd have some other energy measure and like in the old days people did like uh zero crossing counts.PhD D: Yeah, yeah.Professor C: Right. S SPhD D: Well, I can also th use this.Professor C: Yeah. Um,PhD D: Bec - because the result are a little bit better but we have in a point that everything is more or less the similar {disfmarker} more or less similar.Professor C: Yeah. But umPhD D: It's not quite better.Professor C: Right, but it seemed to me that what you were what you were getting at before was that there is something about the difference between the original signal or the original FFT and with the filter which is what {disfmarker} and the variance was one take uh on it.PhD D: Yeah, I used this too.Professor C: Right. But it {disfmarker} it could be something else. Suppose you didn't have anything like that. Then in that case, if you have two nets, Alright, and this one has

What did PhD D think about voice-unvoice detection

PhD D explained that voice-unvoice net took fifteen base features and three features of R as inputs. The R features were the variance of the difference between the two spectrums, variance of the auto-correlation function, and the first coefficient of the auto-correlation function. This method, however, was not that much better than the more typical method that the professor recalled.

how different it is from you know, the canonical ones,Professor C: Right.PhD E: just to get an idea {disfmarker} a rough idea of h if it really even makes a difference.Professor C: You can get a little feeling for it that way, yeah that is probably right.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: I mean uh my {disfmarker} my guess would be that this is {disfmarker} since TIMIT's read speech that this would be less of a big deal,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you went and looked at spontaneous speech it'd be more {disfmarker} more of one.PhD E: Right. Right.Professor C: And the other thing would be, say, if you had these ten events, you'd wanna see, well what if you took two events or four events or ten events or t and you know, and {disfmarker} and hopefully there should be some point at which {vocalsound} having more information doesn't tell you really all that much more about what the phones are.PhD E: Mm - hmm. You could define other events as being sequences of these events too.Professor C: Uh, you could, but the thing is, what he's talking about here is a uh {disfmarker} a translation to a per - frame feature vector, so there's no sequence in that, I think. I think it's just a {disfmarker}PhD E: Unless you did like a second pass over it or something after you've got your {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but we're just talking about something simple here, yeah, to see if {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm adding complexity.Professor C: Yeah. Just {disfmarker} You know. The idea is with a {disfmarker} with a very simple statistical structure, could you {disfmarker} could you uh at least verify that you've chosen features that {vocalsound} are sufficient.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: OK, and you were three outputs, and this one has fPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: whatever, fifty - six, or something,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you were to sum up the probabilities for the voiced and for the unvoiced and for the silence here, we've found in the past you'll do better at voiced - unvoiced - silence than you do with this one. So just having the three output thing doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't really buy you anything. The issue is what you feed it.PhD D: Yeah. Yeah, I have {disfmarker} yeah.Professor C: So uhPhD D: No {disfmarker}PhD E: So you're saying take the features that go into the voiced - unvoiced - silence net and feed those into the other one, as additional inputs, rather than having a separate {disfmarker}Professor C: w W well that's another way.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: That wasn't what I was saying but yeah that's certainly another thing to do. No I was just trying to say if you b if you bring this into the picture over this, what more does it buy youPhD E: Mmm.Professor C: And what I was saying is that the only thing I think that it buys you is um based on whether you feed it something different. And something different in some fundamental way. And so the kind of thing that {disfmarker} that she was talking about before, was looking at something uh ab um {disfmarker} something uh about the difference between the {disfmarker} the uh um log FFT uh log power uh and the log magnitude uh F F - spectrum uh and the um uh filter bank.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: And so the filter bank is chosen in fact to sort of integrate out the effects of pitch and she's saying you know trying {disfmarker} So the to tell you um" does the spectrum look like that or does it look like that" .PhD D: Mm - hmm.Grad A: Oh. R {disfmarker} R {disfmarker} R - zero.Professor C: RightPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: So if it's {disfmarker} if it's um {disfmarker} if it's low energy uh but the {disfmarker} but the spectrum looks like that or like that, it's probably silence.PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Uh but if it's low energy and the spectrum looks like that, it's probably unvoiced.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: So if you just {disfmarker} if you just had to pick two features to determine voiced - unvoiced, you'd pick something about the spectrum like uh R - one over R - zero, um and R - zeroPhD D: Mm - hmm, OK.Professor C: or i i you know you'd have some other energy measure and like in the old days people did like uh zero crossing counts.PhD D: Yeah, yeah.Professor C: Right. S SPhD D: Well, I can also th use this.Professor C: Yeah. Um,PhD D: Bec - because the result are a little bit better but we have in a point that everything is more or less the similar {disfmarker} more or less similar.Professor C: Yeah. But umPhD D: It's not quite better.Professor C: Right, but it seemed to me that what you were what you were getting at before was that there is something about the difference between the original signal or the original FFT and with the filter which is what {disfmarker} and the variance was one take uh on it.PhD D: Yeah, I used this too.Professor C: Right. But it {disfmarker} it could be something else. Suppose you didn't have anything like that. Then in that case, if you have two nets, Alright, and this one has all the other distinctions, you know, randomly wrong. I mean there'd be nothing to tell you that. So um {vocalsound} uh If you just do this by counting, then you should be able to find out in a pretty straightforward way whether you have a sufficient uh set of events to {disfmarker} to do the kind of level of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of uh classification of phones that you'd like. So that was {disfmarker} that was the idea. And then the other thing that we were discussing was {disfmarker} was um {vocalsound} OK, how do you get the {disfmarker} your training data.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Cuz uh the {vocalsound} Switchboard transcription project uh uh you know was half a dozen people, or so working off and on over a couple years, and uh similar {disfmarker} {vocalsound} similar amount of data {vocalsound} to what you're talking about with TIMIT training. So, it seems to me that the only reasonable starting point is uh to automatically translate the uh current TIMIT markings into the markings you want. And uh {vocalsound} it won't have the kind of characteristic that you'd like, of catching funny kind of things that maybe aren't there from these automatic markings,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: but {disfmarker} but uh it's uh {disfmarker}PhD E: It's probably a good place to start.Professor C: Yeah.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: Yeah and a short {disfmarker} short amount of time, just to {disfmarker} again, just to see if that information is sufficient to uh determine the phones.PhD E: Mm - hmm. Hmm.Professor C: So.PhD E: Yeah, you could even then {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to get an idea about how different it is, you could maybe take some subset and you know, go through a few sentences, mark them by hand and then see other three features are R, the variance of the difference between the two spectrum,Professor C: Uh - huh.PhD D: the variance of the auto - correlation function, except the {disfmarker} the first point, because half the height value is R - zeroProfessor C: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.PhD D: and also R - zero, the first coefficient of the auto - correlation function. That is like the energy with these three feature,Professor C: Right.PhD D: also these three feature.Professor C: You wouldn't do like R - one over R - zero or something like that I mean usually for voiced - unvoiced you'd do {disfmarker} yeah, you'd do something {disfmarker} you'd do energyPhD D: Yeah.Professor C: but then you have something like spectral slope, which is you get like R - one ov over R - zero or something like that.PhD D: Uh yeah.PhD E: What are the R'sProfessor C: R correlations.PhD E: I'm sorry I missed it.PhD D: No, R c No.PhD E: Oh.PhD D: Auto - correlation Yes, yes, the variance of the auto - correlation function that uses thatProfessor C: Ye - Well that's the variance, but if you just say" what is {disfmarker}" I mean, to first order, um yeah one of the differences between voiced, unvoiced and silence is energy. Another one is {disfmarker} but the other one is the spectral shape.PhD D: Yeah, I I'll {disfmarker} The spectral shape,Professor C: Yeah, and so R - one over R - zero is what you typically use for that.PhD D: yeah. No, I don't use that {disfmarker} I can't use {disfmarker}Professor C: No, I'm saying that's what people us typically use.PhD D: Mmm.Professor C: See, because it {disfmarker} because this is {disfmarker} this is just like a single number

Summarize the discussion on support vector machines to map MFCC to phonological features

Support vector machines were better at dealing with a lower amount of data, so they could do a reasonable job learning patterns in MFCC without too much work. They worked by finding an optimal separating plane. This was more efficient as the model picked only critical points as opposed to doing more computationally expensive k-means clustering.

B: That's {disfmarker} as far as my stuff goes,Professor C: What's {disfmarker} what's on {disfmarker}Grad B: yeah, well I {vocalsound} tried this mean subtraction method.Professor C: Yeah.Grad B: Um. Due to Avendano, {vocalsound} I'm taking s um {vocalsound} six seconds of speech, um {vocalsound} I'm using two second {vocalsound} FFT analysis frames, {vocalsound} stepped by a half second so it's a quarter length step and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I take that frame and four f the four {disfmarker} I take {disfmarker} Sorry, I take the current frame and the four past frames and the {vocalsound} four future frames and that adds up to six seconds of speech. And I calculate um {vocalsound} the spectral mean, {vocalsound} of the log magnitude spectrum {pause} over that N. I use that to normalize the s the current center frame {vocalsound} by mean subtraction. And I then {disfmarker} then I move to the next frame and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I do it again. Well, actually I calculate all the means first and then I do the subtraction. And um {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} I tried that with HDK, the Aurora setup of HDK training on clean TI - digits, and um {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} it helped um in a phony reverberation case um {vocalsound} where I just used the simulated impulse response um {vocalsound} the error rate went from something like eighty it was from something like eighteen percent {vocalsound} to um four percent. And on meeting rec recorder far mike digits, mike {disfmarker} on channel F, it went from um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} forty - one percent error to eight percent error.PhD E: On {disfmarker} on the real data, not with artificial reverbGrad B: Right.PhD E: Uh - huh.Grad B: And that {disfmarker} that was um {vocalsound} trained on clean speech only, which I'm guessing I think that he is in Las Vegas or something like that.Professor C: Yeah. Yeah. So he's {disfmarker} he's going to ICASSP which is good. I {disfmarker} I don't know if there are many people who are going to ICASSPPhD D: Yeah.Professor C: so {disfmarker} so I thought, make sure somebody go.PhD D: Yeah.PhD E: Do {disfmarker} have {disfmarker} Have people sort of stopped going to ICASSP in recent yearsProfessor C: Um, people are less consistent about going to ICASSP and I think it's still {disfmarker} it's still a reasonable forum for students to {disfmarker} to present things. Uh, it's {disfmarker} I think for engineering students of any kind, I think it's {disfmarker} it's if you haven't been there much, it's good to go to, uh to get a feel for things, a range of things, not just speech. Uh. But I think for {disfmarker} for sort of dyed - in - the - wool speech people, um I think that ICSLP and Eurospeech are much more targeted.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Uh. And then there's these other meetings, like HLT and {disfmarker} and uh ASRU {disfmarker}PhD E:Professor C: so there's {disfmarker} there's actually plenty of meetings that are really relevant to {disfmarker} to uh computational uh speech processing of one sort or another.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Um. So. I mean, I mostly just ignored it because I was too busy and {vocalsound} didn't get to it. So uh Wanna talk a little bit about what we were talking about this morningGrad A: Oh! um {pause} uh {pause} Yeah.Professor C: Just briefly, or {pause} Or anything elseGrad A: So. I {disfmarker} I guess some of the progress, I {disfmarker} I've been getting a {disfmarker} getting my committee members for the quals. And um so far I have how different it is from you know, the canonical ones,Professor C: Right.PhD E: just to get an idea {disfmarker} a rough idea of h if it really even makes a difference.Professor C: You can get a little feeling for it that way, yeah that is probably right.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: I mean uh my {disfmarker} my guess would be that this is {disfmarker} since TIMIT's read speech that this would be less of a big deal,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you went and looked at spontaneous speech it'd be more {disfmarker} more of one.PhD E: Right. Right.Professor C: And the other thing would be, say, if you had these ten events, you'd wanna see, well what if you took two events or four events or ten events or t and you know, and {disfmarker} and hopefully there should be some point at which {vocalsound} having more information doesn't tell you really all that much more about what the phones are.PhD E: Mm - hmm. You could define other events as being sequences of these events too.Professor C: Uh, you could, but the thing is, what he's talking about here is a uh {disfmarker} a translation to a per - frame feature vector, so there's no sequence in that, I think. I think it's just a {disfmarker}PhD E: Unless you did like a second pass over it or something after you've got your {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but we're just talking about something simple here, yeah, to see if {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm adding complexity.Professor C: Yeah. Just {disfmarker} You know. The idea is with a {disfmarker} with a very simple statistical structure, could you {disfmarker} could you uh at least verify that you've chosen features that {vocalsound} are sufficient.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: OK, and you were all the other distinctions, you know, randomly wrong. I mean there'd be nothing to tell you that. So um {vocalsound} uh If you just do this by counting, then you should be able to find out in a pretty straightforward way whether you have a sufficient uh set of events to {disfmarker} to do the kind of level of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of uh classification of phones that you'd like. So that was {disfmarker} that was the idea. And then the other thing that we were discussing was {disfmarker} was um {vocalsound} OK, how do you get the {disfmarker} your training data.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Cuz uh the {vocalsound} Switchboard transcription project uh uh you know was half a dozen people, or so working off and on over a couple years, and uh similar {disfmarker} {vocalsound} similar amount of data {vocalsound} to what you're talking about with TIMIT training. So, it seems to me that the only reasonable starting point is uh to automatically translate the uh current TIMIT markings into the markings you want. And uh {vocalsound} it won't have the kind of characteristic that you'd like, of catching funny kind of things that maybe aren't there from these automatic markings,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: but {disfmarker} but uh it's uh {disfmarker}PhD E: It's probably a good place to start.Professor C: Yeah.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: Yeah and a short {disfmarker} short amount of time, just to {disfmarker} again, just to see if that information is sufficient to uh determine the phones.PhD E: Mm - hmm. Hmm.Professor C: So.PhD E: Yeah, you could even then {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to get an idea about how different it is, you could maybe take some subset and you know, go through a few sentences, mark them by hand and then see Yeah.Professor C: So um have you had a chance to do this um thing we talked about yet with the uh {disfmarker} umPhD E: Insertion penaltyProfessor C: Uh. No actually I was going a different {disfmarker} That's a good question, too, but I was gonna ask about the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the um {vocalsound} changes to the data in comparing PLP and mel cepstrum for the SRI system.PhD E: Uh. Well what I've been {disfmarker}" Changes to the data" , I'm not sure I {disfmarker}Professor C: Right. So we talked on the phone about this, that {disfmarker} that there was still a difference of a {disfmarker} of a few percentPhD E: Yeah. Right.Professor C: and {vocalsound} you told me that there was a difference in how the normalization was done. And I was asking if you were going to do {disfmarker} {vocalsound} redo it uh for PLP with the normalization done as it had been done for the mel cepstrum.PhD E: Mm - hmm. Uh right, no I haven't had a chance to do that.Professor C: OK.PhD E: What I've been doing is {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} trying to figure out {disfmarker} it just seems to me like there's a um {disfmarker} well it seems like there's a bug, because the difference in performance is {disfmarker} it's not gigantic but it's big enough that it {disfmarker} it seems wrong.Professor C: Yeah, I agree, but I thought that the normalization difference was one of the possibilities,PhD E: and {disfmarker} Yeah, but I don't {disfmarker} I'm not {disfmarker}Professor C: rightPhD E: Yeah, I guess I don't think that the normalization difference is gonna account for everything.Professor C: OK.PhD E: So what I was working on is um just going through and checking the headers of the wavefiles, to see if maybe there was a

What did the professor think about support vector machines for speech recognition

The professor recalled that people at Mississippi state were using support vector machines for speech recognition by estimating probabilities. The results were not significant, but they were reasonable.

log being {disfmarker} So the lowest value for this would be zero. So y you're restricted to being positive. And this sort of smooths it for very small energies. Uh, why they chose sixty - four and something else, that was probably just experimental. And the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the constant in front of it, I have no idea.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: umPhD D: Well. I {disfmarker} I will look to try if I move this parameter in their code what happens, maybe everything is {disfmarker} Maybe they tres hole are on basis of this.Professor C: uh {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {disfmarker} they probably have some fi particular s fixed point arithmetic that they're using,PhD D: I don't know.Professor C: and then it just {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah, I was just gonna say maybe it has something to do with hardware,Professor C: Yeah.PhD E: something they were doing.Professor C: Yeah, I mean that {disfmarker} they're s probably working with fixed point or integer or something. I think you're supposed to on this stuff anyway, and {disfmarker} and so maybe that puts it in the right realm somewhere.PhD E: Well it just, yeah, puts it in the right range, or {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah. I think, given at the level you're doing things in floating point on the computer, I don't think it matters, would be my guess,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: but.PhD D: I {disfmarker} this more or less anythingProfessor C: Yeah. OK, and wh when did Stephane take off He took off {disfmarker}PhD D: I think that Stephane will arrive today or tomorrow.Professor C: Oh, he was gone these first few days, and then he's here for a couple days before he goes to Salt Lake City.PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: OK.PhD D: He's {disfmarker} B: That's {disfmarker} as far as my stuff goes,Professor C: What's {disfmarker} what's on {disfmarker}Grad B: yeah, well I {vocalsound} tried this mean subtraction method.Professor C: Yeah.Grad B: Um. Due to Avendano, {vocalsound} I'm taking s um {vocalsound} six seconds of speech, um {vocalsound} I'm using two second {vocalsound} FFT analysis frames, {vocalsound} stepped by a half second so it's a quarter length step and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I take that frame and four f the four {disfmarker} I take {disfmarker} Sorry, I take the current frame and the four past frames and the {vocalsound} four future frames and that adds up to six seconds of speech. And I calculate um {vocalsound} the spectral mean, {vocalsound} of the log magnitude spectrum {pause} over that N. I use that to normalize the s the current center frame {vocalsound} by mean subtraction. And I then {disfmarker} then I move to the next frame and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I do it again. Well, actually I calculate all the means first and then I do the subtraction. And um {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} I tried that with HDK, the Aurora setup of HDK training on clean TI - digits, and um {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} it helped um in a phony reverberation case um {vocalsound} where I just used the simulated impulse response um {vocalsound} the error rate went from something like eighty it was from something like eighteen percent {vocalsound} to um four percent. And on meeting rec recorder far mike digits, mike {disfmarker} on channel F, it went from um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} forty - one percent error to eight percent error.PhD E: On {disfmarker} on the real data, not with artificial reverbGrad B: Right.PhD E: Uh - huh.Grad B: And that {disfmarker} that was um {vocalsound} trained on clean speech only, which I'm guessing how different it is from you know, the canonical ones,Professor C: Right.PhD E: just to get an idea {disfmarker} a rough idea of h if it really even makes a difference.Professor C: You can get a little feeling for it that way, yeah that is probably right.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: I mean uh my {disfmarker} my guess would be that this is {disfmarker} since TIMIT's read speech that this would be less of a big deal,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you went and looked at spontaneous speech it'd be more {disfmarker} more of one.PhD E: Right. Right.Professor C: And the other thing would be, say, if you had these ten events, you'd wanna see, well what if you took two events or four events or ten events or t and you know, and {disfmarker} and hopefully there should be some point at which {vocalsound} having more information doesn't tell you really all that much more about what the phones are.PhD E: Mm - hmm. You could define other events as being sequences of these events too.Professor C: Uh, you could, but the thing is, what he's talking about here is a uh {disfmarker} a translation to a per - frame feature vector, so there's no sequence in that, I think. I think it's just a {disfmarker}PhD E: Unless you did like a second pass over it or something after you've got your {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but we're just talking about something simple here, yeah, to see if {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm adding complexity.Professor C: Yeah. Just {disfmarker} You know. The idea is with a {disfmarker} with a very simple statistical structure, could you {disfmarker} could you uh at least verify that you've chosen features that {vocalsound} are sufficient.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: OK, and you were to tell you um" does the spectrum look like that or does it look like that" .PhD D: Mm - hmm.Grad A: Oh. R {disfmarker} R {disfmarker} R - zero.Professor C: RightPhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: So if it's {disfmarker} if it's um {disfmarker} if it's low energy uh but the {disfmarker} but the spectrum looks like that or like that, it's probably silence.PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Uh but if it's low energy and the spectrum looks like that, it's probably unvoiced.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: So if you just {disfmarker} if you just had to pick two features to determine voiced - unvoiced, you'd pick something about the spectrum like uh R - one over R - zero, um and R - zeroPhD D: Mm - hmm, OK.Professor C: or i i you know you'd have some other energy measure and like in the old days people did like uh zero crossing counts.PhD D: Yeah, yeah.Professor C: Right. S SPhD D: Well, I can also th use this.Professor C: Yeah. Um,PhD D: Bec - because the result are a little bit better but we have in a point that everything is more or less the similar {disfmarker} more or less similar.Professor C: Yeah. But umPhD D: It's not quite better.Professor C: Right, but it seemed to me that what you were what you were getting at before was that there is something about the difference between the original signal or the original FFT and with the filter which is what {disfmarker} and the variance was one take uh on it.PhD D: Yeah, I used this too.Professor C: Right. But it {disfmarker} it could be something else. Suppose you didn't have anything like that. Then in that case, if you have two nets, Alright, and this one has additive noise. Cuz I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it's cuz I don't know what log magnitude spectral subtraction is gonna do to additive noise.Professor C: Yeah,Grad B: That's {disfmarker} that's the {disfmarker}Professor C: well, it's {disfmarker} it's not exactly the right thingGrad B: Uh - huh.Professor C: but {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} but you've already seen that cuz there is added noise here.Grad B: That's {disfmarker} that's {disfmarker} Yeah, that's true. That's a good point.Professor C: Yeah. So um {disfmarker}Grad B: OK, so it's then {disfmarker} then it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's reasonable to expect it would be helpful if we used it with the SRI system andProfessor C: Yeah, I mean, as helpful {disfmarker} I mean, so that's the question. Yeah, w we're often asked this when we work with a system that {disfmarker} that isn't {disfmarker} isn't sort of industry {disfmarker} industry standard great,Grad B: Uh - huh.Professor C: uh and we see some reduction in error using some clever method, then, you know, will it work on a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} on a {disfmarker} on a good system. So uh you know, this other one's {disfmarker} it was a pretty good system. I think, you know, one {disfmarker} one percent word error rate on digits is {disfmarker} uh digit strings is not {vocalsound} uh you know stellar, but {disfmarker} but given that this is real {vocalsound} digits, as opposed to uh sort of laboratory {disfmarker}Grad B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Well.PhD E: And it wasn't trained on this task either.Professor C: And it wasn't trained on this task. Actually one percent is sort of {disfmarker} you know, sort of in a reasonable range.Grad B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: People would say" yeah, I could {disfmarker} I can imagine getting that" . And uh so the {disfmarker} the four or five percent or something is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is quite poor.Grad B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Uh, you know, if you're doing a uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a sixteen digit uh credit card number you'll basically get it wrong almost all the time.Grad B: Hmm.Professor C: So. So. Uh, {vocalsound} um a significant reduction in the error for that would be great.Grad B: Huh, OK.Professor C: And {disfmarker} and then, uh Yeah. So. Yeah. Cool.Grad B: Sounds good.Professor C: Yeah. Alright, um, I actually have to run. So I don't think I can do the digits, but um, {vocalsound} I guess I'll leave my microphone onPhD E: Uh, yeah.Professor C: Yeah. Thank you.PhD E: Yep. Yeah. That'll work.Professor C: I can be out of here quickly. {comment} {comment} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} That's I just have to run for another appointment. OK, I t Yeah. I left it on. OK.

What did Grad A explain about his vectors for his support vector machine

Grad A explained that his vector contained binary values for whether a phonological feature exists or not. The goal was to come up with a mapping from a feature set to the existence of a particular phonological feature. He was not doing the mapping yet. The goal was simply detecting features at the time.

how different it is from you know, the canonical ones,Professor C: Right.PhD E: just to get an idea {disfmarker} a rough idea of h if it really even makes a difference.Professor C: You can get a little feeling for it that way, yeah that is probably right.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: I mean uh my {disfmarker} my guess would be that this is {disfmarker} since TIMIT's read speech that this would be less of a big deal,PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor C: if you went and looked at spontaneous speech it'd be more {disfmarker} more of one.PhD E: Right. Right.Professor C: And the other thing would be, say, if you had these ten events, you'd wanna see, well what if you took two events or four events or ten events or t and you know, and {disfmarker} and hopefully there should be some point at which {vocalsound} having more information doesn't tell you really all that much more about what the phones are.PhD E: Mm - hmm. You could define other events as being sequences of these events too.Professor C: Uh, you could, but the thing is, what he's talking about here is a uh {disfmarker} a translation to a per - frame feature vector, so there's no sequence in that, I think. I think it's just a {disfmarker}PhD E: Unless you did like a second pass over it or something after you've got your {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but we're just talking about something simple here, yeah, to see if {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm adding complexity.Professor C: Yeah. Just {disfmarker} You know. The idea is with a {disfmarker} with a very simple statistical structure, could you {disfmarker} could you uh at least verify that you've chosen features that {vocalsound} are sufficient.PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: OK, and you were B: That's {disfmarker} as far as my stuff goes,Professor C: What's {disfmarker} what's on {disfmarker}Grad B: yeah, well I {vocalsound} tried this mean subtraction method.Professor C: Yeah.Grad B: Um. Due to Avendano, {vocalsound} I'm taking s um {vocalsound} six seconds of speech, um {vocalsound} I'm using two second {vocalsound} FFT analysis frames, {vocalsound} stepped by a half second so it's a quarter length step and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I take that frame and four f the four {disfmarker} I take {disfmarker} Sorry, I take the current frame and the four past frames and the {vocalsound} four future frames and that adds up to six seconds of speech. And I calculate um {vocalsound} the spectral mean, {vocalsound} of the log magnitude spectrum {pause} over that N. I use that to normalize the s the current center frame {vocalsound} by mean subtraction. And I then {disfmarker} then I move to the next frame and I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I do it again. Well, actually I calculate all the means first and then I do the subtraction. And um {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} I tried that with HDK, the Aurora setup of HDK training on clean TI - digits, and um {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} it helped um in a phony reverberation case um {vocalsound} where I just used the simulated impulse response um {vocalsound} the error rate went from something like eighty it was from something like eighteen percent {vocalsound} to um four percent. And on meeting rec recorder far mike digits, mike {disfmarker} on channel F, it went from um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} forty - one percent error to eight percent error.PhD E: On {disfmarker} on the real data, not with artificial reverbGrad B: Right.PhD E: Uh - huh.Grad B: And that {disfmarker} that was um {vocalsound} trained on clean speech only, which I'm guessing natural log, and maybe it has something to do with the fact that this is {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I have no idea.PhD E: Is that some kind of base conversion, or {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but {disfmarker} but um, then there's the sixty - four, Uh, {vocalsound} I don't know.PhD D: Because maybe they're {disfmarker} the threshold that they are using on the basis of this value {disfmarker}PhD E: Experimental results.Grad A: Mc - McDonald's constant.PhD D: I don't know exactly, because well th I thought maybe they have a meaning. But I don't know what is the meaning of take exactly this value.Professor C: Yeah, it's pretty funny looking.PhD E: So they're taking the number inside the log and raising it to sixteen over log base two.Professor C: I don't know. Yeah, I {disfmarker} um Right. Sixteen over {comment} two.PhD E: Does it have to do with those sixty - fours, or {disfmarker}Professor C: Um. If we ignore the sixteen, the natural log of t one over the natural log of two times the natu I don't know. Well, maybe somebody'll think of something,PhD E:Professor C: but this is uh {disfmarker} It may just be that they {disfmarker} they want to have {disfmarker} for very small energies, they want to have some kind of a {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah, the e The effect I don't {disfmarker} @ @ I can understand the effect of this, no because it's to {disfmarker} to do something like that.Professor C: Well, it says, since you're taking a natural log, it says that when {disfmarker} when you get down to essentially zero energy, this is gonna be the natural log of one, which is zero.PhD D: No Mm - hmm.Professor C: So it'll go down to uh to {nonvocalsound} the natural Professor C: OK. So uh, he's not here,PhD D: So.Professor C: so you get to {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah, I will try to explain the thing that I did this {disfmarker} this week {disfmarker} during this week.Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: Well eh you know that I work {disfmarker} I begin to work with a new feature to detect voice - unvoice.PhD E: Mm - hmm.PhD D: What I trying two MLP to {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} with this new feature and the fifteen feature uh from the eh bus base systemPhD E: The {disfmarker} the mel cepstrumPhD D: No, satly the mes the Mel Cepstrum, the new base system {disfmarker} the new base system.PhD E: Oh the {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah, we {disfmarker}PhD E: OK, the Aurora system.PhD D: yeah the Aurora system with the new filter, VAD or something like that.PhD E: OK.PhD D: And I'm trying two MLP, one one that only have t three output, voice, unvoice, and silence,Professor C: Mm - hmm.PhD D: and other one that have fifty - six output. The probabilities of the allophone. And I tried to do some experiment of recognition with that and only have result with {disfmarker} with the MLP with the three output. And I put together the fifteen features and the three MLP output. And, well, the result are li a little bit better, but more or less similar.Professor C: Uh, I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} I'm slightly confused.PhD E: Hmm.Professor C: What {disfmarker} what feeds the uh {disfmarker} the three - output netPhD D: Voice, unvoice, and siProfessor C: No no, what feeds it What features does it seePhD D: The feature {disfmarker} the input The inputs are the fifteen {disfmarker} the fifteen uh bases feature.Professor C: Uh - huh.PhD D: the {disfmarker} with the new code. And the Yeah.Professor C: So um have you had a chance to do this um thing we talked about yet with the uh {disfmarker} umPhD E: Insertion penaltyProfessor C: Uh. No actually I was going a different {disfmarker} That's a good question, too, but I was gonna ask about the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the um {vocalsound} changes to the data in comparing PLP and mel cepstrum for the SRI system.PhD E: Uh. Well what I've been {disfmarker}" Changes to the data" , I'm not sure I {disfmarker}Professor C: Right. So we talked on the phone about this, that {disfmarker} that there was still a difference of a {disfmarker} of a few percentPhD E: Yeah. Right.Professor C: and {vocalsound} you told me that there was a difference in how the normalization was done. And I was asking if you were going to do {disfmarker} {vocalsound} redo it uh for PLP with the normalization done as it had been done for the mel cepstrum.PhD E: Mm - hmm. Uh right, no I haven't had a chance to do that.Professor C: OK.PhD E: What I've been doing is {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} trying to figure out {disfmarker} it just seems to me like there's a um {disfmarker} well it seems like there's a bug, because the difference in performance is {disfmarker} it's not gigantic but it's big enough that it {disfmarker} it seems wrong.Professor C: Yeah, I agree, but I thought that the normalization difference was one of the possibilities,PhD E: and {disfmarker} Yeah, but I don't {disfmarker} I'm not {disfmarker}Professor C: rightPhD E: Yeah, I guess I don't think that the normalization difference is gonna account for everything.Professor C: OK.PhD E: So what I was working on is um just going through and checking the headers of the wavefiles, to see if maybe there was a

Summarize the meeting

The meeting began with an update on the voice-unvoice detection. The professor suggested the solution might just be feeding the log magnitude of the spectrum into a simple neural net. The team then had a brief discussion about some confusing formula on the France Telecom proposal. Following this, the team talked about how to pick out the most important acoustic events. Then, Grad A introduced the team to phonological matchings that he was working on using Support Vector Machines. The goal was to map MFCC's to phonological features. The team concluded by discussing a potential bug which led to a significant difference between PLP and mel cepstrum and the FFT method that they were exploring.

and Richard came up with. The default spot for the on-off button. The mute button just below that. Then there's the volume and channel selectors. Simple plus-minus button. Uh we thought of a help button. If you hold it and you press another button, uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen. Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons. A button for teletext. A button for the subtitles. And the company logo. So it's rather simple prototype. And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionalityUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time.Marketing: Um, when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page.User Interface: Uh, that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred. Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel. S so uh the shifting uh button. Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext, and shifting uh down. So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay. Okay. Um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple. Uh just a few buttons and large buttons.User Interface: Oh yeahProject Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons. So I'm wondering different uh different machine, than a flat one. I think this is a really easy one. Um, what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design Freek, what do you thinkMarketing: Well, I still think we should go for the single curve design.User Interface: {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But then again, {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me.Industrial Designer: Richard's argument was very good. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: But since we just have to.Project Manager: {vocalsound} We have to cut costs. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah I'm agMarketing: I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote.Project Manager: Ask for more money. Yeah. Yeah. I am agreeing with the usability. Yeah.Marketing: Or do some market research and see what the options are.Project Manager: Yeah. But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one. Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So people will use it more, and especially for the help functions,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: it will be good if we have scroll bar, scroll button. It will be necessary to have good help function, as well. So this is scroll. I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design.Marketing: Yes. Definitely. {vocalsound}User Interface: The thProject Manager: But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's pretty different, if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one.Marketing: {vocalsound} It's pretty different.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote.User Interface: No.Marketing: This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell.Project Manager: the volume with the scroll-wheel.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that would save two buttons. If you do the same for the channel.Project Manager: Yeah. That's really a good good idea, I think. And it will make the use of the scroll wheel uh more obvious indeed.Industrial Designer: More obvious.Project Manager: So we make one for the volume, one for the channel. Plus scroll. That's right.Industrial Designer: So if we {disfmarker}Project Manager: So we've got one, two, three. Yeah, we can leave the teletext in if we want. That's m that's better.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So this is five buttons.Industrial Designer: If we leave out all those buttons, perhaps you can go with the flat flat case. And make it smaller overall.Project Manager: Y yeah.Industrial Designer: So if you put the the volume and channel buttons on the same height as the on-off button, the screen right behi under that, than the scroll buttonProject Manager: Mm yeah. Uh yeah, and then you can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you get a a much smaller remote.Project Manager: That's right.User Interface: Uh yeah.Industrial Designer: And it shProject Manager: So we can decrease this one to four buttons.Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: Right now we have five.User Interface: But uh, you can make a f quite a big uh remote remote control for uh just the same price as a small one.Project Manager: Yeah. That's no problem.User Interface: Just uh you only have to pay for the double curved or single curved. It uh it's a bit uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's more the moulds in which they are being made, I think. Single curved is really easy to just fill in.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: And cases come right out of the machine.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: And single curved you have to have a if we if we neely {disfmarker} really need all of those buttons.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think if you look at most controls, they've got more buttons than this.Project Manager: That's right.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And well the on-off button, it's it's a necessity.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can't drop that one. The volume and channel buttons, you need you obviously need those those.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: The mute button could be replaced uh by pressing the volume-down button twice. So we could cancel that one. I think the help button really is necessaryUser Interface: Yeah yeah.Industrial Designer: because there's no other way to know when someone wants to know what a button does.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Uh, or you can build in uh when you press uh one button uh uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Long time. Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: If you put {disfmarker}User Interface: But m Yeah. We disc discuss that already. But uh we think uh old people uh don't know that uh option. So uh they just put in uh put {vocalsound} press uh the button and uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Okay.Industrial Designer: Well, {vocalsound} you can't leave out the number buttons I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: And uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh teletext and subtitles are yeah necessary.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: So it's rather basic already.Marketing: Yeah. Think so. That's what I pointed out earlier. If you just make a control for just the T_V_ there's just not much to gain here.Project Manager: Yep.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. So we had somebody about th interfa Something about the design of the buttons thereIndustrial Designer: Yeah, they're {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just n normal plain buttons.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah,Industrial Designer: It's rather hard to draw on the white-board.User easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer. Uh, so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker} Yeah. So everybody puts his own score.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score,User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: and you can get one {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That's better. So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call Evaluation criteria. Okay. Mm, any more ideas Or questions about the project Or about the productUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Because I think then that we get to our last sheet. Are the costs within the budgetUser Interface: Mm yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: They are.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station.Project Manager: Do we {disfmarker} Docking station. That's a good point.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higherMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh and I think you can compensate that as well.Industrial Designer: Perhaps.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem, because it's very cheap to make as well.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half millionUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Or what was it {vocalsound}Marketing: Fifty grand.Project Manager: Fifteen fifteen million. I think we will. {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product. It's innovative.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Especially in America. People are pretty decadent. Sometimes.User Interface: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people.Project Manager: You can do more. Yeah.User Interface: Ah.Marketing: So maybe we should just

Summarize the group discussion about finance and budget control.

When the group found out that they came across a fairly tight budget, they cut the number of batteries from 2 to 1 and chose plastic as the cheapest case material supplement. But they still kept the advanced chip, LCD screen, and docking station, all of which they considered to be the strength of the product. After that, they touched on the button issue and realized that that was where the biggest cost driver hid. As a hurry solution, they quickly discarded the help and the mute button, replaced buttons for the program with a scroll-wheel, and removed a volume button and a channel button to reduce cost.

and Richard came up with. The default spot for the on-off button. The mute button just below that. Then there's the volume and channel selectors. Simple plus-minus button. Uh we thought of a help button. If you hold it and you press another button, uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen. Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons. A button for teletext. A button for the subtitles. And the company logo. So it's rather simple prototype. And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionalityUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time.Marketing: Um, when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page.User Interface: Uh, that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred. Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel. S so uh the shifting uh button. Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext, and shifting uh down. So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay. Okay. Um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple. Uh just a few buttons and large buttons.User Interface: Oh yeahProject Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons. So I'm wondering different uh different machine, than a flat one. I think this is a really easy one. Um, what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design Freek, what do you thinkMarketing: Well, I still think we should go for the single curve design.User Interface: {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But then again, {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me.Industrial Designer: Richard's argument was very good. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: But since we just have to.Project Manager: {vocalsound} We have to cut costs. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah I'm agMarketing: I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote.Project Manager: Ask for more money. Yeah. Yeah. I am agreeing with the usability. Yeah.Marketing: Or do some market research and see what the options are.Project Manager: Yeah. But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one. Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So people will use it more, and especially for the help functions,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: it will be good if we have scroll bar, scroll button. It will be necessary to have good help function, as well. So this is scroll. I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design.Marketing: Yes. Definitely. {vocalsound}User Interface: The thProject Manager: But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's pretty different, if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one.Marketing: {vocalsound} It's pretty different.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote.User Interface: No.Marketing: This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell.Project Manager: uh two uh for one big button. But they are uh more expensive than the small ones. Uh, yeah. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah but th it's not stated in this files.User Interface: It's just a {gap}.Project Manager: So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one, by pressingMarketing: Well I was thinking, maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button.Project Manager: That's possibility as well.Marketing: That would cut the cost.Project Manager: So {disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well. So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see. If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross. {vocalsound} Plus. Min.User Interface: But I don't don't know if if it's cheaper.Project Manager: Uh s yeah channel.User Interface: So uh,Project Manager: Yeah wUser Interface: we've still got four buttons, but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah th I think they count uh the materials.User Interface: You got uh not not a butt button itself, but uh on the um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah on the chip there. Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. On the chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's right. That's right.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I think because we have the advanced chipMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} we can just count this as one button.User Interface: Yeah, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} But, I think this really is four buttons anyhow.Project Manager: But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Maybe it is, but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and a half Euros. Also the L_C_ display, I think it's, I think it's too expensive for the display we use.Marketing: Yes.Industrial Designer: Uh that's that's a big flashy.Marketing: I think {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it {disfmarker}Marketing: I think a radio button is not exactly what older people expect to have a remote control.User Interface: Uh, yeah, true.Project Manager: Yeah. I would give it a four.Marketing: I'm not sure. I think I'd go for two.User Interface: I go for three. So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we have to do the three. It's the {disfmarker}Marketing:'Kay. Is the company company recognisableProject Manager: Yes it is.User Interface: Yeah yeah.Marketing: Well, we have the logo there.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: And they wanna put fashion in their products. Uh in the slogan of the company. And we have the removable front cases. So, I think it's very recognisable.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: So that will be this. I was also supposed to calculate the score, but thought we would have another private thingy after this.Project Manager: We've got a calculate it. MmIndustrial Designer: Twendag sieven an twendag.Marketing: Is this {disfmarker} Like after this, are we done Or {disfmarker}Project Manager: N We've gonna {disfmarker} We're going to evaluate it.Marketing: We're gonna go to our other room again. Well, anyhow. These are seven factors times seven is forty something. Two No.Project Manager: {gap} Forty nine.Marketing: Nine Uh, minus one. Minus three, minus four. {vocalsound} Minus four. So that would be minus eight. Forty one out of forty nine.Project Manager: Forty one. That's {disfmarker} Around eighty percent.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: What is itMarketing: Guess I'll just type that in on the bottom here.Project Manager: That's eighty four percent. I think that's a pretty nice score.User Interface: Hmm. Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: Hmm.'Kay. So that will be the evaluation.Project Manager: Thank you. So, that brings us to the project evaluation. Yep. Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Project process. Did we move through the easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer. Uh, so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker} Yeah. So everybody puts his own score.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score,User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: and you can get one {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That's better. So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call Evaluation criteria. Okay. Mm, any more ideas Or questions about the project Or about the productUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Because I think then that we get to our last sheet. Are the costs within the budgetUser Interface: Mm yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: They are.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station.Project Manager: Do we {disfmarker} Docking station. That's a good point.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higherMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh and I think you can compensate that as well.Industrial Designer: Perhaps.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem, because it's very cheap to make as well.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half millionUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Or what was it {vocalsound}Marketing: Fifty grand.Project Manager: Fifteen fifteen million. I think we will. {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product. It's innovative.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Especially in America. People are pretty decadent. Sometimes.User Interface: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people.Project Manager: You can do more. Yeah.User Interface: Ah.Marketing: So maybe we should just

How did the group decide to reduce the cost of buttons

Firstly, when the group realized that cost was chiefly incurred by excessive buttons, they quickly decided to discard the help and the mute button. But then they found out that the primary cost drivers were 10 buttons for program numbers. To get rid of them, Project Manager boldly proposed replacing them with a scroll-wheel, which was finally accepted despite disputes over its unfriendly nature for elderly users. Also, the group agreed to remove a volume and a channel button by shifting the up-and-down function onto scroll-wheel and having radio buttons.

and Richard came up with. The default spot for the on-off button. The mute button just below that. Then there's the volume and channel selectors. Simple plus-minus button. Uh we thought of a help button. If you hold it and you press another button, uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen. Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons. A button for teletext. A button for the subtitles. And the company logo. So it's rather simple prototype. And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionalityUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time.Marketing: Um, when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page.User Interface: Uh, that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred. Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel. S so uh the shifting uh button. Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext, and shifting uh down. So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay. Okay. Um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple. Uh just a few buttons and large buttons.User Interface: Oh yeahProject Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons. So I'm wondering different uh different machine, than a flat one. I think this is a really easy one. Um, what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design Freek, what do you thinkMarketing: Well, I still think we should go for the single curve design.User Interface: {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But then again, {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me.Industrial Designer: Richard's argument was very good. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: But since we just have to.Project Manager: {vocalsound} We have to cut costs. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah I'm agMarketing: I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote.Project Manager: Ask for more money. Yeah. Yeah. I am agreeing with the usability. Yeah.Marketing: Or do some market research and see what the options are.Project Manager: Yeah. But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one. Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So people will use it more, and especially for the help functions,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: it will be good if we have scroll bar, scroll button. It will be necessary to have good help function, as well. So this is scroll. I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design.Marketing: Yes. Definitely. {vocalsound}User Interface: The thProject Manager: But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's pretty different, if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one.Marketing: {vocalsound} It's pretty different.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote.User Interface: No.Marketing: This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell.Project Manager: uh two uh for one big button. But they are uh more expensive than the small ones. Uh, yeah. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah but th it's not stated in this files.User Interface: It's just a {gap}.Project Manager: So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one, by pressingMarketing: Well I was thinking, maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button.Project Manager: That's possibility as well.Marketing: That would cut the cost.Project Manager: So {disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well. So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see. If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross. {vocalsound} Plus. Min.User Interface: But I don't don't know if if it's cheaper.Project Manager: Uh s yeah channel.User Interface: So uh,Project Manager: Yeah wUser Interface: we've still got four buttons, but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah th I think they count uh the materials.User Interface: You got uh not not a butt button itself, but uh on the um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah on the chip there. Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. On the chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's right. That's right.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I think because we have the advanced chipMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} we can just count this as one button.User Interface: Yeah, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} But, I think this really is four buttons anyhow.Project Manager: But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Maybe it is, but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and a half Euros. Also the L_C_ display, I think it's, I think it's too expensive for the display we use.Marketing: Yes.Industrial Designer: Uh that's that's a big if we if we neely {disfmarker} really need all of those buttons.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think if you look at most controls, they've got more buttons than this.Project Manager: That's right.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And well the on-off button, it's it's a necessity.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can't drop that one. The volume and channel buttons, you need you obviously need those those.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: The mute button could be replaced uh by pressing the volume-down button twice. So we could cancel that one. I think the help button really is necessaryUser Interface: Yeah yeah.Industrial Designer: because there's no other way to know when someone wants to know what a button does.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Uh, or you can build in uh when you press uh one button uh uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Long time. Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: If you put {disfmarker}User Interface: But m Yeah. We disc discuss that already. But uh we think uh old people uh don't know that uh option. So uh they just put in uh put {vocalsound} press uh the button and uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Okay.Industrial Designer: Well, {vocalsound} you can't leave out the number buttons I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: And uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh teletext and subtitles are yeah necessary.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: So it's rather basic already.Marketing: Yeah. Think so. That's what I pointed out earlier. If you just make a control for just the T_V_ there's just not much to gain here.Project Manager: Yep.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. So we had somebody about th interfa Something about the design of the buttons thereIndustrial Designer: Yeah, they're {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just n normal plain buttons.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah,Industrial Designer: It's rather hard to draw on the white-board.User easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer. Uh, so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker} Yeah. So everybody puts his own score.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score,User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: and you can get one {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That's better. So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call Evaluation criteria. Okay. Mm, any more ideas Or questions about the project Or about the productUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Because I think then that we get to our last sheet. Are the costs within the budgetUser Interface: Mm yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: They are.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station.Project Manager: Do we {disfmarker} Docking station. That's a good point.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higherMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh and I think you can compensate that as well.Industrial Designer: Perhaps.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem, because it's very cheap to make as well.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half millionUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Or what was it {vocalsound}Marketing: Fifty grand.Project Manager: Fifteen fifteen million. I think we will. {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product. It's innovative.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Especially in America. People are pretty decadent. Sometimes.User Interface: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people.Project Manager: You can do more. Yeah.User Interface: Ah.Marketing: So maybe we should just

Why was Marketing discontent with all those changes made to buttons during the discussion about finance

First and foremost, Marketing believed that the elder generation expected to have ten buttons for the number one to zero, rather than a scroll-wheel with radio buttons, which would inevitably harm the usability. In this case, a lot of marketing would be required to convince elderly users, who were unfamiliar with fancy stuff like scroll-wheel at all. Additionally, he complained that the cost limit made it almost impossible to produce anything better than normal controls, and that he would not make those impelled changes if it was not for cost's sake.

and Richard came up with. The default spot for the on-off button. The mute button just below that. Then there's the volume and channel selectors. Simple plus-minus button. Uh we thought of a help button. If you hold it and you press another button, uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen. Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons. A button for teletext. A button for the subtitles. And the company logo. So it's rather simple prototype. And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionalityUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time.Marketing: Um, when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page.User Interface: Uh, that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred. Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel. S so uh the shifting uh button. Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext, and shifting uh down. So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay. Okay. Um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple. Uh just a few buttons and large buttons.User Interface: Oh yeahProject Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons. So I'm wondering easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer. Uh, so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker} Yeah. So everybody puts his own score.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score,User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: and you can get one {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That's better. So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call Evaluation criteria. Okay. Mm, any more ideas Or questions about the project Or about the productUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Because I think then that we get to our last sheet. Are the costs within the budgetUser Interface: Mm yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: They are.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station.Project Manager: Do we {disfmarker} Docking station. That's a good point.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higherMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh and I think you can compensate that as well.Industrial Designer: Perhaps.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem, because it's very cheap to make as well.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half millionUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Or what was it {vocalsound}Marketing: Fifty grand.Project Manager: Fifteen fifteen million. I think we will. {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product. It's innovative.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Especially in America. People are pretty decadent. Sometimes.User Interface: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people.Project Manager: You can do more. Yeah.User Interface: Ah.Marketing: So maybe we should just different uh different machine, than a flat one. I think this is a really easy one. Um, what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design Freek, what do you thinkMarketing: Well, I still think we should go for the single curve design.User Interface: {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But then again, {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me.Industrial Designer: Richard's argument was very good. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: But since we just have to.Project Manager: {vocalsound} We have to cut costs. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah I'm agMarketing: I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote.Project Manager: Ask for more money. Yeah. Yeah. I am agreeing with the usability. Yeah.Marketing: Or do some market research and see what the options are.Project Manager: Yeah. But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one. Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So people will use it more, and especially for the help functions,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: it will be good if we have scroll bar, scroll button. It will be necessary to have good help function, as well. So this is scroll. I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design.Marketing: Yes. Definitely. {vocalsound}User Interface: The thProject Manager: But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's pretty different, if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one.Marketing: {vocalsound} It's pretty different.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote.User Interface: No.Marketing: This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell.Project Manager: uh two uh for one big button. But they are uh more expensive than the small ones. Uh, yeah. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah but th it's not stated in this files.User Interface: It's just a {gap}.Project Manager: So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one, by pressingMarketing: Well I was thinking, maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button.Project Manager: That's possibility as well.Marketing: That would cut the cost.Project Manager: So {disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well. So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see. If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross. {vocalsound} Plus. Min.User Interface: But I don't don't know if if it's cheaper.Project Manager: Uh s yeah channel.User Interface: So uh,Project Manager: Yeah wUser Interface: we've still got four buttons, but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah th I think they count uh the materials.User Interface: You got uh not not a butt button itself, but uh on the um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah on the chip there. Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. On the chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's right. That's right.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I think because we have the advanced chipMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} we can just count this as one button.User Interface: Yeah, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} But, I think this really is four buttons anyhow.Project Manager: But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Maybe it is, but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and a half Euros. Also the L_C_ display, I think it's, I think it's too expensive for the display we use.Marketing: Yes.Industrial Designer: Uh that's that's a big the volume with the scroll-wheel.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that would save two buttons. If you do the same for the channel.Project Manager: Yeah. That's really a good good idea, I think. And it will make the use of the scroll wheel uh more obvious indeed.Industrial Designer: More obvious.Project Manager: So we make one for the volume, one for the channel. Plus scroll. That's right.Industrial Designer: So if we {disfmarker}Project Manager: So we've got one, two, three. Yeah, we can leave the teletext in if we want. That's m that's better.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So this is five buttons.Industrial Designer: If we leave out all those buttons, perhaps you can go with the flat flat case. And make it smaller overall.Project Manager: Y yeah.Industrial Designer: So if you put the the volume and channel buttons on the same height as the on-off button, the screen right behi under that, than the scroll buttonProject Manager: Mm yeah. Uh yeah, and then you can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you get a a much smaller remote.Project Manager: That's right.User Interface: Uh yeah.Industrial Designer: And it shProject Manager: So we can decrease this one to four buttons.Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: Right now we have five.User Interface: But uh, you can make a f quite a big uh remote remote control for uh just the same price as a small one.Project Manager: Yeah. That's no problem.User Interface: Just uh you only have to pay for the double curved or single curved. It uh it's a bit uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's more the moulds in which they are being made, I think. Single curved is really easy to just fill in.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: And cases come right out of the machine.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: And single curved you have to have a

Summarize the group discussion about project evaluation.

Though Project Manager forgot to prepare evaluation criteria beforehand, Marketing had analyzed project requirements and brought forward a systematic set of criteria, according to which product was graded by the whole group. Then, under the guidance of Project Manager, the group evaluated the project process. Eventually, the meeting stepped into the closing phase.

different uh different machine, than a flat one. I think this is a really easy one. Um, what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design Freek, what do you thinkMarketing: Well, I still think we should go for the single curve design.User Interface: {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But then again, {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me.Industrial Designer: Richard's argument was very good. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: But since we just have to.Project Manager: {vocalsound} We have to cut costs. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah I'm agMarketing: I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote.Project Manager: Ask for more money. Yeah. Yeah. I am agreeing with the usability. Yeah.Marketing: Or do some market research and see what the options are.Project Manager: Yeah. But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one. Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So people will use it more, and especially for the help functions,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: it will be good if we have scroll bar, scroll button. It will be necessary to have good help function, as well. So this is scroll. I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design.Marketing: Yes. Definitely. {vocalsound}User Interface: The thProject Manager: But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's pretty different, if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one.Marketing: {vocalsound} It's pretty different.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote.User Interface: No.Marketing: This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell.Project Manager: uh two uh for one big button. But they are uh more expensive than the small ones. Uh, yeah. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah but th it's not stated in this files.User Interface: It's just a {gap}.Project Manager: So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one, by pressingMarketing: Well I was thinking, maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button.Project Manager: That's possibility as well.Marketing: That would cut the cost.Project Manager: So {disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well. So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see. If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross. {vocalsound} Plus. Min.User Interface: But I don't don't know if if it's cheaper.Project Manager: Uh s yeah channel.User Interface: So uh,Project Manager: Yeah wUser Interface: we've still got four buttons, but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah th I think they count uh the materials.User Interface: You got uh not not a butt button itself, but uh on the um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah on the chip there. Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. On the chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's right. That's right.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I think because we have the advanced chipMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} we can just count this as one button.User Interface: Yeah, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} But, I think this really is four buttons anyhow.Project Manager: But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Maybe it is, but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and a half Euros. Also the L_C_ display, I think it's, I think it's too expensive for the display we use.Marketing: Yes.Industrial Designer: Uh that's that's a big easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer. Uh, so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker} Yeah. So everybody puts his own score.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score,User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: and you can get one {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That's better. So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call Evaluation criteria. Okay. Mm, any more ideas Or questions about the project Or about the productUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Because I think then that we get to our last sheet. Are the costs within the budgetUser Interface: Mm yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: They are.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station.Project Manager: Do we {disfmarker} Docking station. That's a good point.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higherMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh and I think you can compensate that as well.Industrial Designer: Perhaps.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem, because it's very cheap to make as well.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half millionUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Or what was it {vocalsound}Marketing: Fifty grand.Project Manager: Fifteen fifteen million. I think we will. {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product. It's innovative.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Especially in America. People are pretty decadent. Sometimes.User Interface: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people.Project Manager: You can do more. Yeah.User Interface: Ah.Marketing: So maybe we should just and Richard came up with. The default spot for the on-off button. The mute button just below that. Then there's the volume and channel selectors. Simple plus-minus button. Uh we thought of a help button. If you hold it and you press another button, uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen. Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons. A button for teletext. A button for the subtitles. And the company logo. So it's rather simple prototype. And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionalityUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time.Marketing: Um, when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page.User Interface: Uh, that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred. Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel. S so uh the shifting uh button. Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext, and shifting uh down. So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay. Okay. Um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple. Uh just a few buttons and large buttons.User Interface: Oh yeahProject Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons. So I'm wondering margin will get too small. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker}User Interface: But it is possible to make one uh for uh twelve fifty.Project Manager: It is. If you leave out the L_C_ display. And if you use less buttons. Say {disfmarker} Or you can take the single chip.User Interface: I don't think so.Marketing: It would be a be a pretty rigid one.User Interface: S Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: But, you can't use uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ten.Project Manager: There it is. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But then w Good looking.User Interface: Uh, wi with n Oh, with uh attractive uh o options.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: So uh, you can stay uh below uh twelve fifty. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's uh difficult as well,Marketing: Or bProject Manager: but {disfmarker}Marketing: Basically becoming a choice between like either a good remote and a higher production cost, or just any other remote control.Industrial Designer: No remote. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Or we can leave out the ten buttons and take one scroll wheel for the programme numbers. Then wUser Interface: Scroll-wheel's one.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Because then we save ten buttons.User Interface: No, it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Then we have five and one.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: And and see. If we have this one and we've got the advanced {disfmarker} W uh, we're getting close. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: We're getting closer.User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: But how does scroll-wheel work hereProject Manager: Then you will {disfmarker} Or maybe you can um scroll. If you scroll you will see the numbers on the L_C_D_ display. Until you've got the right number, then you push it.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: That would bring up the price of the scroll-wheel also. Integrated scroll-wheel push-button.Project Manager: Alright. It's gotta scroll and push.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Okay but then you you

What specific criteria did Marketing bring forward for product evaluation

On the basis of literature study and requirements analysis carried out by Marketing, specific criteria were as follows: design innovation, learnability, functionality, utility, cost, target customer, recognizability, etc. After the group brought forward a score for each in sequence, the total score was calculated as 84%, which was acknowledged as a nice score.

different uh different machine, than a flat one. I think this is a really easy one. Um, what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design Freek, what do you thinkMarketing: Well, I still think we should go for the single curve design.User Interface: {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But then again, {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me.Industrial Designer: Richard's argument was very good. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: But since we just have to.Project Manager: {vocalsound} We have to cut costs. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah I'm agMarketing: I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote.Project Manager: Ask for more money. Yeah. Yeah. I am agreeing with the usability. Yeah.Marketing: Or do some market research and see what the options are.Project Manager: Yeah. But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one. Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So people will use it more, and especially for the help functions,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: it will be good if we have scroll bar, scroll button. It will be necessary to have good help function, as well. So this is scroll. I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design.Marketing: Yes. Definitely. {vocalsound}User Interface: The thProject Manager: But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's pretty different, if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one.Marketing: {vocalsound} It's pretty different.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote.User Interface: No.Marketing: This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell.Project Manager: uh two uh for one big button. But they are uh more expensive than the small ones. Uh, yeah. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah but th it's not stated in this files.User Interface: It's just a {gap}.Project Manager: So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one, by pressingMarketing: Well I was thinking, maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button.Project Manager: That's possibility as well.Marketing: That would cut the cost.Project Manager: So {disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well. So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see. If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross. {vocalsound} Plus. Min.User Interface: But I don't don't know if if it's cheaper.Project Manager: Uh s yeah channel.User Interface: So uh,Project Manager: Yeah wUser Interface: we've still got four buttons, but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah th I think they count uh the materials.User Interface: You got uh not not a butt button itself, but uh on the um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah on the chip there. Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. On the chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's right. That's right.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I think because we have the advanced chipMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} we can just count this as one button.User Interface: Yeah, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} But, I think this really is four buttons anyhow.Project Manager: But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Maybe it is, but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and a half Euros. Also the L_C_ display, I think it's, I think it's too expensive for the display we use.Marketing: Yes.Industrial Designer: Uh that's that's a big easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer. Uh, so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker} Yeah. So everybody puts his own score.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score,User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: and you can get one {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That's better. So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call Evaluation criteria. Okay. Mm, any more ideas Or questions about the project Or about the productUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Because I think then that we get to our last sheet. Are the costs within the budgetUser Interface: Mm yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: They are.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station.Project Manager: Do we {disfmarker} Docking station. That's a good point.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higherMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh and I think you can compensate that as well.Industrial Designer: Perhaps.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem, because it's very cheap to make as well.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half millionUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Or what was it {vocalsound}Marketing: Fifty grand.Project Manager: Fifteen fifteen million. I think we will. {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product. It's innovative.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Especially in America. People are pretty decadent. Sometimes.User Interface: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people.Project Manager: You can do more. Yeah.User Interface: Ah.Marketing: So maybe we should just and Richard came up with. The default spot for the on-off button. The mute button just below that. Then there's the volume and channel selectors. Simple plus-minus button. Uh we thought of a help button. If you hold it and you press another button, uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen. Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons. A button for teletext. A button for the subtitles. And the company logo. So it's rather simple prototype. And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionalityUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time.Marketing: Um, when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page.User Interface: Uh, that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred. Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel. S so uh the shifting uh button. Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext, and shifting uh down. So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay. Okay. Um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple. Uh just a few buttons and large buttons.User Interface: Oh yeahProject Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons. So I'm wondering the teletext button twice {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} What if you have to scroll to page eighty eight Eight hundred eighty eight. {vocalsound}Marketing: I think that's the case on most {disfmarker}User Interface: It's uh {disfmarker} One m uh one b uh, a few buttons.Project Manager: Ah that's not really that {disfmarker}Marketing: Well, that could be just uh like the scroll to eight, click, scroll to eight, click, scroll to eight, click.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Okay.Marketing: But then again that would be d j just pretty much not an option for older people,Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: who don't even know what a scroll-wheel is.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: No.Marketing: Holding a remote with {vocalsound} which they expect to have like ten buttons for the numbers one to zero.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: With only five buttons on it. And a scroll-wheel.Project Manager: I think if you make a good advertisement uh on television and in the in the guide, you can explain to the people how to use the scroll wheel. If you just make it real simple. Because it saves it saves a lot of money. And we can keep our L_C_D_ screen, which can provide extra information. How to use the scroll wheel. How to use the other bu buttons as subtitles.Marketing: True. True.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: And it's good for the innovative design as well. If you would erase these. Mm eraser And we put uh {disfmarker} Looks a bit odd maybe. {vocalsound}Marketing: That's a pretty big scroll wheel.Project Manager: That is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Something like that.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then, yeah. We've got the scroll-wheel. One, two, three, four, five buttons, if we erase this one. And these are two buttons then.Industrial Designer: We could make two buttons out of that. And just um {disfmarker} If you press the volume button you can control

During process evaluation, why did not Marketing agree that the meeting process was moving along the right phases

When it came to processing evaluation, though Industrial Designer appeared to think highly of Project Manager's arrangements, Marketing clearly voiced his dissent. as he explained, it is obvious that financial issues were touched on too late, making it imperative to further adjust to the final design during budget control. Project Manager himself admitted that there existed a lack of information about prices, which in fact led to a number of unrealistic dialogues about costly functions like recognition.

and Richard came up with. The default spot for the on-off button. The mute button just below that. Then there's the volume and channel selectors. Simple plus-minus button. Uh we thought of a help button. If you hold it and you press another button, uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen. Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons. A button for teletext. A button for the subtitles. And the company logo. So it's rather simple prototype. And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionalityUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time.Marketing: Um, when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page.User Interface: Uh, that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred. Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel. S so uh the shifting uh button. Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext, and shifting uh down. So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay. Okay. Um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple. Uh just a few buttons and large buttons.User Interface: Oh yeahProject Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons. So I'm wondering easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer. Uh, so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker} Yeah. So everybody puts his own score.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score,User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: and you can get one {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That's better. So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call Evaluation criteria. Okay. Mm, any more ideas Or questions about the project Or about the productUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Because I think then that we get to our last sheet. Are the costs within the budgetUser Interface: Mm yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: They are.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station.Project Manager: Do we {disfmarker} Docking station. That's a good point.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higherMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh and I think you can compensate that as well.Industrial Designer: Perhaps.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem, because it's very cheap to make as well.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half millionUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Or what was it {vocalsound}Marketing: Fifty grand.Project Manager: Fifteen fifteen million. I think we will. {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product. It's innovative.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Especially in America. People are pretty decadent. Sometimes.User Interface: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people.Project Manager: You can do more. Yeah.User Interface: Ah.Marketing: So maybe we should just uh two uh for one big button. But they are uh more expensive than the small ones. Uh, yeah. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah but th it's not stated in this files.User Interface: It's just a {gap}.Project Manager: So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one, by pressingMarketing: Well I was thinking, maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button.Project Manager: That's possibility as well.Marketing: That would cut the cost.Project Manager: So {disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well. So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see. If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross. {vocalsound} Plus. Min.User Interface: But I don't don't know if if it's cheaper.Project Manager: Uh s yeah channel.User Interface: So uh,Project Manager: Yeah wUser Interface: we've still got four buttons, but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah th I think they count uh the materials.User Interface: You got uh not not a butt button itself, but uh on the um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah on the chip there. Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. On the chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's right. That's right.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I think because we have the advanced chipMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} we can just count this as one button.User Interface: Yeah, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} But, I think this really is four buttons anyhow.Project Manager: But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. Maybe it is, but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and a half Euros. Also the L_C_ display, I think it's, I think it's too expensive for the display we use.Marketing: Yes.Industrial Designer: Uh that's that's a big different uh different machine, than a flat one. I think this is a really easy one. Um, what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design Freek, what do you thinkMarketing: Well, I still think we should go for the single curve design.User Interface: {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But then again, {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me.Industrial Designer: Richard's argument was very good. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: But since we just have to.Project Manager: {vocalsound} We have to cut costs. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah I'm agMarketing: I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote.Project Manager: Ask for more money. Yeah. Yeah. I am agreeing with the usability. Yeah.Marketing: Or do some market research and see what the options are.Project Manager: Yeah. But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one. Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So people will use it more, and especially for the help functions,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: it will be good if we have scroll bar, scroll button. It will be necessary to have good help function, as well. So this is scroll. I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design.Marketing: Yes. Definitely. {vocalsound}User Interface: The thProject Manager: But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: It's pretty different, if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one.Marketing: {vocalsound} It's pretty different.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote.User Interface: No.Marketing: This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell.Project Manager: the volume with the scroll-wheel.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that would save two buttons. If you do the same for the channel.Project Manager: Yeah. That's really a good good idea, I think. And it will make the use of the scroll wheel uh more obvious indeed.Industrial Designer: More obvious.Project Manager: So we make one for the volume, one for the channel. Plus scroll. That's right.Industrial Designer: So if we {disfmarker}Project Manager: So we've got one, two, three. Yeah, we can leave the teletext in if we want. That's m that's better.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So this is five buttons.Industrial Designer: If we leave out all those buttons, perhaps you can go with the flat flat case. And make it smaller overall.Project Manager: Y yeah.Industrial Designer: So if you put the the volume and channel buttons on the same height as the on-off button, the screen right behi under that, than the scroll buttonProject Manager: Mm yeah. Uh yeah, and then you can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you get a a much smaller remote.Project Manager: That's right.User Interface: Uh yeah.Industrial Designer: And it shProject Manager: So we can decrease this one to four buttons.Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: Right now we have five.User Interface: But uh, you can make a f quite a big uh remote remote control for uh just the same price as a small one.Project Manager: Yeah. That's no problem.User Interface: Just uh you only have to pay for the double curved or single curved. It uh it's a bit uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's more the moulds in which they are being made, I think. Single curved is really easy to just fill in.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: And cases come right out of the machine.User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: And single curved you have to have a

Summarize the whole meeting.

The whole meeting was the final meeting of the project for discussion about the final design and project evaluation. Firstly, though Project Manager came late, he efficiently started the prototype presentation, during which Industrial Designer and User Interface presented the final design they worked out together. However, part of the features contained in their design, particularly too many buttons, were effectively rejected in the finance phase to reduce cost. Then, Marketing hosted the product evaluation and calculated a total score for their new remote control. After that, Project Manager guided the process evaluation and led the project to the closing phase.

people to use it. It's not going to be easy. Doing that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm. So umIndustrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: I I think we should we should cut the L_C_D_ screen. That that's that's my opinion.User Interface: No, it's okay, you uh cut the L_C_D_ screenProject Manager: Just {disfmarker}User Interface: and introduce two more buttons.Marketing: Okay. So L_C_D_'s out, is speech rec out now We've {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The speech recognition is out. Because of the budget, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Uh where, L_C_ {disfmarker}Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Okay w we now we can just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: So are we basically back to the original one now, back to the first version Which turns out to be on budget exactly, pretty much. With these new costings.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Marketing: So {gap} just look at {disfmarker} forget that one and look at that one now.Project Manager: Yes. Yes. I th I th I think w we just go for this oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: and that that now twelve Euros is the is is the price,Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Okay. Well that's that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: My m my supervisor will be glad that it's fifty cents cheaper than he expected.Marketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: Actually yeah,Marketing: So.Industrial Designer: we we we will not need the really uh expert designers um because the amount, yeah.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yep. So w we can go back and l talk to the suppliers maybeProject Manager: Okay.Marketing: and see if we can drive the prices down to add a few more things in but that's all we can do with the restrictions we have at the moment.Project Manager: Okay, good. Then we {gap} the same. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: That was it. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Thanks.User Interface: That's it. Cool.Marketing: Okay. it's good, when you don't stay in you have to redesign. There is no {vocalsound} uh no negotiation uh {vocalsound} possible in this matter. So we have to consider that. {vocalsound} Good.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Um so maybe Anna, you can have your presentation.Marketing: Well we can't {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} we can't do evaluation'til we have a design.Project Manager: Okay Matthew. Nice uh you are here.Industrial Designer: Great.Project Manager: Great. Great. Oh ma maybe then you can start now with mm presenting your uh your designs.Industrial Designer: Yep. So I will start by the the basic one that uh fits into uh eight Euros actually, right, seven eight Euros,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and uh well first for both they have um a special shape, maybe the designer can uh explain better than me, but uh it's like a surf board.Marketing: Mm'kay.Industrial Designer: And you you are supposed to surf to browse to surf T_V_, maybe the web, and uh it's kind of interesting shape because um unconsciously people want to s to surf {vocalsound} when they see this stuff.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Or browse.Industrial Designer: And also it's not too far from um a mobile.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: So people are used to that kind of shape,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: right. Don't take care too much about the colour because w yeah we don't take {disfmarker}User Interface: Now we are supposed to give some oper offers right now.Industrial Designer: yeah. So here would be basically the the the infrared uh uh ledMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Eye.User Interface: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah.Industrial Designer: yeah L_A_ L_A_ L_E_D_,User Interface: L_E_D_.Industrial Designer: the on-off button, in red.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Here would be the volume. On the on the left,Marketing: Oh yeah.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: okay, so {gap}User today we you can do that with regular chip.User Interface: yeah it's th with the regular chip, yeah.Project Manager: Say {gap} say it's regular, regular chip,Industrial Designer: Yeah. Okay. Okay.Project Manager: and we still on fifteen,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So. And what about the number of buttons buttons uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} my MatthewProject Manager: Yes but that {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker} Well we can just sayUser Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: one.Industrial Designer: When you look at this w, this u uh item, {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Ca l we are just {disfmarker} when we just want to uh to cut the number of buttons we have to make seven to to fit in in twelve twelve fifty.Industrial Designer: But {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: So is it possibleMarketing: {vocalsound} But that's seven basic buttons right, seven buttons without any adds-on, without special colours or form or material.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: That'll be {disfmarker} then we have uh have to ask the user to press it several times.Industrial Designer: You cannot make a phone to your boss saying twelve fifty is really {vocalsound} really low,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No no,Marketing: Well {disfmarker}Project Manager: he he he I IIndustrial Designer: noUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So {gap} the L_C_D_ display is is three Francs, sorry three Euros, by itself.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And uh we don't want to to change that right We we really want a L_C_D_User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: other otherwise we w wouldn not get the market.Project Manager: Otherwise y you ha you have a s ve very normal uh thing like this.Industrial Designer: It's evident.Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So twelve Euro fifty, we got two off of the battery,Industrial Designer: And I dunno {disfmarker}Marketing: we can't do anything about that, so ten fifty, are the innovations with this Got the L_C_D_ screen.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Yeah automatic speech recognition.Marketing: Is that in this one though Is this {disfmarker}'cause this is the {disfmarker} Th th there were different options we discussed then,User Interface: No, we haMarketing: we discussed the one that was in budget and the one that was out of budget.Project Manager: We just diske discuss it as you designed itMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: and then we will will try to get it in the budget.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So the cost for these were {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: what was the cost for the first one Eight EurosProject Manager: Eight.Industrial Designer: Eight. Well actually we have yeah to check again yeah.User Interface: Yeah, eight Euros yeah.Marketing: And this one was sixteen Euros.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Sixteen.User Interface: Sixteen Euros.Marketing: Okay. So. Innovation for this one is two OneUser Interface: It's a two, I would say two {gap}.Marketing: TwoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: W W un to be one what would do we nee actually, yeah, I don't see {disfmarker}Project Manager: Why it is one.Industrial Designer: okay, one would would be without buttons, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: A man {disfmarker} w wMarketing: Mm. WellUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: the speech recognition is a very good innovation I believe it,Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: BuMarketing: so {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah. So maybe we can put one.Project Manager: This this is it w with the speech recognitionIndustrial Designer: It's using speech recognition, yeah.Project Manager: Well.User Interface: Okay yeah.Project Manager: Gi given that {vocalsound} that it works,Marketing: Give it a oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah, one, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} then it's I think one.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Ease of useUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So the first one is really standard,Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: so everybody i including our grandmothers can if we want an L_C_D_ dispra display, that's seven fifty um, so we've got seven fifty to use for the case and for the buttons. And the chip.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sorry the chip's up there already.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.Marketing: So we're gonna have to scale this down to get within budget, there's no doubt about that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} AIndustrial Designer: So wha what what each of us think about the {disfmarker} because it's measure point the L_C_D_, um {disfmarker} Do you think it's importantUser Interface: Or we could even replace them by buttons actually.Industrial Designer: Because sometimes whe when you watch the T_V_ in fact, you have a big display and maybe you don't need one more in your hands I dunno, I'm just asking.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Mm {disfmarker}User Interface: A actually it depends, it depends what kind of functionalities you want to add into it,Marketing: Yep.User Interface: for example if you add two more functionalities then better you add two more buttons, or {disfmarker} and you'll have L_C_D_ display which is {disfmarker} that is going to bring the cost by two two Euros at least.Marketing: Mm. Yeah. I think, unless we can really drive these prices down we need to get rid of the L_C_D_ display.User Interface: Okay so we can get rid of itIndustrial Designer: Yeah, it's true yeah.User Interface: and then add a couple of buttons.Industrial Designer: But uh, do we want that On the market point of view, yeah. What do you think uh, L_C_D_ is a major feature, orProject Manager: Mm. IMarketing: For the price, it's gonna be what we can afford, and it's looking like we can't afford the L_C_D_ display, there's no way we can get it in there. {vocalsound} Mm.Project Manager: I {gap} think we have to come to a decision now,

How did Industrial Designer introduce the two prototypes of the remote control

Both the devices had the special shape, like the surf-board. The first prototype was a pretty simple design with LCD display and an on-off button in red. It was easy to use and could only be used for the TV mode. After all, the team concluded that it was a standard design except for its special shape that made it look adorable. On the contrary, the second prototype was advanced in its speech recognition function and looked like a fashion mobile phone. It came with six key buttons and one orange one for the microphone. If the user would like a speech recognition and a lot of information on the channel could be displayed directly on LCD display. Also, the components for the two designs were low in weight and there was LED to indicate the battery usage, making it convenient to use. To conclude, Marketing fancied the second one's size and shape.

are the innovations with this Got the L_C_D_ screen.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Yeah automatic speech recognition.Marketing: Is that in this one though Is this {disfmarker}'cause this is the {disfmarker} Th th there were different options we discussed then,User Interface: No, we haMarketing: we discussed the one that was in budget and the one that was out of budget.Project Manager: We just diske discuss it as you designed itMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: and then we will will try to get it in the budget.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So the cost for these were {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: what was the cost for the first one Eight EurosProject Manager: Eight.Industrial Designer: Eight. Well actually we have yeah to check again yeah.User Interface: Yeah, eight Euros yeah.Marketing: And this one was sixteen Euros.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Sixteen.User Interface: Sixteen Euros.Marketing: Okay. So. Innovation for this one is two OneUser Interface: It's a two, I would say two {gap}.Marketing: TwoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: W W un to be one what would do we nee actually, yeah, I don't see {disfmarker}Project Manager: Why it is one.Industrial Designer: okay, one would would be without buttons, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: A man {disfmarker} w wMarketing: Mm. WellUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: the speech recognition is a very good innovation I believe it,Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: BuMarketing: so {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah. So maybe we can put one.Project Manager: This this is it w with the speech recognitionIndustrial Designer: It's using speech recognition, yeah.Project Manager: Well.User Interface: Okay yeah.Project Manager: Gi given that {vocalsound} that it works,Marketing: Give it a oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah, one, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} then it's I think one.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Ease of useUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So the first one is really standard,Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: so everybody i including our grandmothers can people to use it. It's not going to be easy. Doing that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm. So umIndustrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: I I think we should we should cut the L_C_D_ screen. That that's that's my opinion.User Interface: No, it's okay, you uh cut the L_C_D_ screenProject Manager: Just {disfmarker}User Interface: and introduce two more buttons.Marketing: Okay. So L_C_D_'s out, is speech rec out now We've {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The speech recognition is out. Because of the budget, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Uh where, L_C_ {disfmarker}Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Okay w we now we can just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: So are we basically back to the original one now, back to the first version Which turns out to be on budget exactly, pretty much. With these new costings.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Marketing: So {gap} just look at {disfmarker} forget that one and look at that one now.Project Manager: Yes. Yes. I th I th I think w we just go for this oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: and that that now twelve Euros is the is is the price,Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Okay. Well that's that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: My m my supervisor will be glad that it's fifty cents cheaper than he expected.Marketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: Actually yeah,Marketing: So.Industrial Designer: we we we will not need the really uh expert designers um because the amount, yeah.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yep. So w we can go back and l talk to the suppliers maybeProject Manager: Okay.Marketing: and see if we can drive the prices down to add a few more things in but that's all we can do with the restrictions we have at the moment.Project Manager: Okay, good. Then we {gap} the same. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: That was it. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Thanks.User Interface: That's it. Cool.Marketing: Okay. it {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we can still spend this four and a half EuroMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yep.Project Manager: and to r because th th th the the selling price is already prite fik uh uh quite fixed on twenty five EurosIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: so we just have to offer as much as as {disfmarker} well value for the for the customer uh he can have for twenty five Euro.Industrial Designer: Functionality.Marketing: Okay so look and feel, innovation {disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: And now it {gap} easy to use.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Easy to use.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: {gap} target.Marketing: Mm-hmm. And trends. Oh, you following the idea of using the um removable covers on these Is that part of both of them orProject Manager: Um well w w we can still discuss that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So um, and together with evaluating this uh we we might come with new ideasMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I mean adding things or uh removing uh of options because they are too expensive,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but um I've received uh a framework which we can do this. I mean did you have this this Excel sheetMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: No.Marketing: No.Project Manager: No okay, this is these are the the the latest prices of our production uh uh production unit for several components,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so we can uh see whether the the price is is within the twelve Euro uh fifty cents uh.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: So maybe we can start with this, uh, calling this one. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Yep. So it's the pink.Project Manager: Th th this is the first design.Marketing: And the other one's green. Okay, soProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: look and feel Where um one is {vocalsound} I've broken the pen again. SProject Manager: Uh there is another pen.Marketing: yeah. Get that one. if we want an L_C_D_ dispra display, that's seven fifty um, so we've got seven fifty to use for the case and for the buttons. And the chip.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sorry the chip's up there already.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.Marketing: So we're gonna have to scale this down to get within budget, there's no doubt about that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} AIndustrial Designer: So wha what what each of us think about the {disfmarker} because it's measure point the L_C_D_, um {disfmarker} Do you think it's importantUser Interface: Or we could even replace them by buttons actually.Industrial Designer: Because sometimes whe when you watch the T_V_ in fact, you have a big display and maybe you don't need one more in your hands I dunno, I'm just asking.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Mm {disfmarker}User Interface: A actually it depends, it depends what kind of functionalities you want to add into it,Marketing: Yep.User Interface: for example if you add two more functionalities then better you add two more buttons, or {disfmarker} and you'll have L_C_D_ display which is {disfmarker} that is going to bring the cost by two two Euros at least.Marketing: Mm. Yeah. I think, unless we can really drive these prices down we need to get rid of the L_C_D_ display.User Interface: Okay so we can get rid of itIndustrial Designer: Yeah, it's true yeah.User Interface: and then add a couple of buttons.Industrial Designer: But uh, do we want that On the market point of view, yeah. What do you think uh, L_C_D_ is a major feature, orProject Manager: Mm. IMarketing: For the price, it's gonna be what we can afford, and it's looking like we can't afford the L_C_D_ display, there's no way we can get it in there. {vocalsound} Mm.Project Manager: I {gap} think we have to come to a decision now, use it,User Interface: He is used to it actMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: rightUser Interface: They are used to it actually.Marketing: Yep. So that's maybe a a two for ease of use.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Here there may {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Um, the other one is quite easy, tho though.User Interface: Uh, though it has more functionality I think it shouldn't be for the user to learn it actually. It shouldn't be diffiMarketing: Okay. So maybe a three or a four.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: Uh yeah, actually in fact I think it will be {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: One me um we hope {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: maybe sometimes people get uh scared with the number of buttons.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Yeah but {vocalsound} yIndustrial Designer: And there is a {disfmarker} like I would say three. Or maybe four {gap}.Marketing: Okay. Consensus Three or fourUser Interface: Well we have reduced the keys actually you see.Project Manager: Three, I would. Three.Marketing: Three Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeahUser Interface: Three is fine with me.Industrial Designer: because it's n uh it's not like a big one with uh one hundred buttons or so, {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah it's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: No.User Interface: actually the user has to put some effort to do {disfmarker} use that actually,Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: it's not so easy, like this one the normal.Project Manager: Yeah. Yes but then when when he is used to it, i i it is quite easy.User Interface: Is quite easy yeah.Project Manager: So so I think th three is good. Yeah.User Interface: Initially there there is a lot of effort, yeah.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Good.Marketing: So three'sProject Manager: What's the nextMarketing: uh how well it goes to the target demographic. So we're d we're still thinking twenty to forty year oldsProject Manager: So {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager:

How did Marketing design the product evaluation

Marketing recalled what the team had identified as being important to sell the product for both the devices and made a list of features from the marketing point of view. For both of the prototypes, Marketing asked the team to give one to seven points to each feature of the product and the lower the points the better the feature. For instance, look and feel, innovation and ease of use, were the three important components that Marketing wanted the team to discuss about. This might help with the conclusion whether the product was appealing to the correct demographic and incorporated the fashion trend into it.

are the innovations with this Got the L_C_D_ screen.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Yeah automatic speech recognition.Marketing: Is that in this one though Is this {disfmarker}'cause this is the {disfmarker} Th th there were different options we discussed then,User Interface: No, we haMarketing: we discussed the one that was in budget and the one that was out of budget.Project Manager: We just diske discuss it as you designed itMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: and then we will will try to get it in the budget.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So the cost for these were {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: what was the cost for the first one Eight EurosProject Manager: Eight.Industrial Designer: Eight. Well actually we have yeah to check again yeah.User Interface: Yeah, eight Euros yeah.Marketing: And this one was sixteen Euros.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Sixteen.User Interface: Sixteen Euros.Marketing: Okay. So. Innovation for this one is two OneUser Interface: It's a two, I would say two {gap}.Marketing: TwoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: W W un to be one what would do we nee actually, yeah, I don't see {disfmarker}Project Manager: Why it is one.Industrial Designer: okay, one would would be without buttons, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: A man {disfmarker} w wMarketing: Mm. WellUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: the speech recognition is a very good innovation I believe it,Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: BuMarketing: so {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah. So maybe we can put one.Project Manager: This this is it w with the speech recognitionIndustrial Designer: It's using speech recognition, yeah.Project Manager: Well.User Interface: Okay yeah.Project Manager: Gi given that {vocalsound} that it works,Marketing: Give it a oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah, one, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} then it's I think one.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Ease of useUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So the first one is really standard,Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: so everybody i including our grandmothers can people to use it. It's not going to be easy. Doing that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm. So umIndustrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: I I think we should we should cut the L_C_D_ screen. That that's that's my opinion.User Interface: No, it's okay, you uh cut the L_C_D_ screenProject Manager: Just {disfmarker}User Interface: and introduce two more buttons.Marketing: Okay. So L_C_D_'s out, is speech rec out now We've {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The speech recognition is out. Because of the budget, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Uh where, L_C_ {disfmarker}Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Okay w we now we can just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: So are we basically back to the original one now, back to the first version Which turns out to be on budget exactly, pretty much. With these new costings.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Marketing: So {gap} just look at {disfmarker} forget that one and look at that one now.Project Manager: Yes. Yes. I th I th I think w we just go for this oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: and that that now twelve Euros is the is is the price,Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Okay. Well that's that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: My m my supervisor will be glad that it's fifty cents cheaper than he expected.Marketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: Actually yeah,Marketing: So.Industrial Designer: we we we will not need the really uh expert designers um because the amount, yeah.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yep. So w we can go back and l talk to the suppliers maybeProject Manager: Okay.Marketing: and see if we can drive the prices down to add a few more things in but that's all we can do with the restrictions we have at the moment.Project Manager: Okay, good. Then we {gap} the same. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: That was it. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Thanks.User Interface: That's it. Cool.Marketing: Okay. it {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we can still spend this four and a half EuroMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yep.Project Manager: and to r because th th th the the selling price is already prite fik uh uh quite fixed on twenty five EurosIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: so we just have to offer as much as as {disfmarker} well value for the for the customer uh he can have for twenty five Euro.Industrial Designer: Functionality.Marketing: Okay so look and feel, innovation {disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: And now it {gap} easy to use.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Easy to use.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: {gap} target.Marketing: Mm-hmm. And trends. Oh, you following the idea of using the um removable covers on these Is that part of both of them orProject Manager: Um well w w we can still discuss that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So um, and together with evaluating this uh we we might come with new ideasMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I mean adding things or uh removing uh of options because they are too expensive,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but um I've received uh a framework which we can do this. I mean did you have this this Excel sheetMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: No.Marketing: No.Project Manager: No okay, this is these are the the the latest prices of our production uh uh production unit for several components,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so we can uh see whether the the price is is within the twelve Euro uh fifty cents uh.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: So maybe we can start with this, uh, calling this one. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Yep. So it's the pink.Project Manager: Th th this is the first design.Marketing: And the other one's green. Okay, soProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: look and feel Where um one is {vocalsound} I've broken the pen again. SProject Manager: Uh there is another pen.Marketing: yeah. Get that one. it's good, when you don't stay in you have to redesign. There is no {vocalsound} uh no negotiation uh {vocalsound} possible in this matter. So we have to consider that. {vocalsound} Good.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Um so maybe Anna, you can have your presentation.Marketing: Well we can't {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} we can't do evaluation'til we have a design.Project Manager: Okay Matthew. Nice uh you are here.Industrial Designer: Great.Project Manager: Great. Great. Oh ma maybe then you can start now with mm presenting your uh your designs.Industrial Designer: Yep. So I will start by the the basic one that uh fits into uh eight Euros actually, right, seven eight Euros,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and uh well first for both they have um a special shape, maybe the designer can uh explain better than me, but uh it's like a surf board.Marketing: Mm'kay.Industrial Designer: And you you are supposed to surf to browse to surf T_V_, maybe the web, and uh it's kind of interesting shape because um unconsciously people want to s to surf {vocalsound} when they see this stuff.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Or browse.Industrial Designer: And also it's not too far from um a mobile.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: So people are used to that kind of shape,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: right. Don't take care too much about the colour because w yeah we don't take {disfmarker}User Interface: Now we are supposed to give some oper offers right now.Industrial Designer: yeah. So here would be basically the the the infrared uh uh ledMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Eye.User Interface: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah.Industrial Designer: yeah L_A_ L_A_ L_E_D_,User Interface: L_E_D_.Industrial Designer: the on-off button, in red.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Here would be the volume. On the on the left,Marketing: Oh yeah.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: okay, so {gap}User if we want an L_C_D_ dispra display, that's seven fifty um, so we've got seven fifty to use for the case and for the buttons. And the chip.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sorry the chip's up there already.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.Marketing: So we're gonna have to scale this down to get within budget, there's no doubt about that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} AIndustrial Designer: So wha what what each of us think about the {disfmarker} because it's measure point the L_C_D_, um {disfmarker} Do you think it's importantUser Interface: Or we could even replace them by buttons actually.Industrial Designer: Because sometimes whe when you watch the T_V_ in fact, you have a big display and maybe you don't need one more in your hands I dunno, I'm just asking.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Mm {disfmarker}User Interface: A actually it depends, it depends what kind of functionalities you want to add into it,Marketing: Yep.User Interface: for example if you add two more functionalities then better you add two more buttons, or {disfmarker} and you'll have L_C_D_ display which is {disfmarker} that is going to bring the cost by two two Euros at least.Marketing: Mm. Yeah. I think, unless we can really drive these prices down we need to get rid of the L_C_D_ display.User Interface: Okay so we can get rid of itIndustrial Designer: Yeah, it's true yeah.User Interface: and then add a couple of buttons.Industrial Designer: But uh, do we want that On the market point of view, yeah. What do you think uh, L_C_D_ is a major feature, orProject Manager: Mm. IMarketing: For the price, it's gonna be what we can afford, and it's looking like we can't afford the L_C_D_ display, there's no way we can get it in there. {vocalsound} Mm.Project Manager: I {gap} think we have to come to a decision now,

What did the team discuss during the product evaluation

The team agreed that although the cover was movable, the case design was moderate. Also, the way the device could be held was not attractive and easy for all, since the left-handed people would choose to use it with the other hand, which made it really annoying. When it came to innovation, Industrial Designer believed basically there was no innovation in the first one compared to what existed in the market. However, the second design was extremely innovative as it had incorporated all the scrolling buttons and its automatic speech recognition function. Besides, the two products aimed at the target customers well, with the first standard one for the old group while the second one for those between twenty to forty five. Lastly, the team concluded that they had successfully answered the company's philosophy of having the fashion in electronics.

are the innovations with this Got the L_C_D_ screen.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Yeah automatic speech recognition.Marketing: Is that in this one though Is this {disfmarker}'cause this is the {disfmarker} Th th there were different options we discussed then,User Interface: No, we haMarketing: we discussed the one that was in budget and the one that was out of budget.Project Manager: We just diske discuss it as you designed itMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: and then we will will try to get it in the budget.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So the cost for these were {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: what was the cost for the first one Eight EurosProject Manager: Eight.Industrial Designer: Eight. Well actually we have yeah to check again yeah.User Interface: Yeah, eight Euros yeah.Marketing: And this one was sixteen Euros.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Sixteen.User Interface: Sixteen Euros.Marketing: Okay. So. Innovation for this one is two OneUser Interface: It's a two, I would say two {gap}.Marketing: TwoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: W W un to be one what would do we nee actually, yeah, I don't see {disfmarker}Project Manager: Why it is one.Industrial Designer: okay, one would would be without buttons, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: A man {disfmarker} w wMarketing: Mm. WellUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: the speech recognition is a very good innovation I believe it,Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: BuMarketing: so {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah. So maybe we can put one.Project Manager: This this is it w with the speech recognitionIndustrial Designer: It's using speech recognition, yeah.Project Manager: Well.User Interface: Okay yeah.Project Manager: Gi given that {vocalsound} that it works,Marketing: Give it a oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah, one, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} then it's I think one.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Ease of useUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So the first one is really standard,Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: so everybody i including our grandmothers can people to use it. It's not going to be easy. Doing that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm. So umIndustrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: I I think we should we should cut the L_C_D_ screen. That that's that's my opinion.User Interface: No, it's okay, you uh cut the L_C_D_ screenProject Manager: Just {disfmarker}User Interface: and introduce two more buttons.Marketing: Okay. So L_C_D_'s out, is speech rec out now We've {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The speech recognition is out. Because of the budget, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Uh where, L_C_ {disfmarker}Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Okay w we now we can just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: So are we basically back to the original one now, back to the first version Which turns out to be on budget exactly, pretty much. With these new costings.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Marketing: So {gap} just look at {disfmarker} forget that one and look at that one now.Project Manager: Yes. Yes. I th I th I think w we just go for this oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: and that that now twelve Euros is the is is the price,Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Okay. Well that's that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: My m my supervisor will be glad that it's fifty cents cheaper than he expected.Marketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: Actually yeah,Marketing: So.Industrial Designer: we we we will not need the really uh expert designers um because the amount, yeah.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yep. So w we can go back and l talk to the suppliers maybeProject Manager: Okay.Marketing: and see if we can drive the prices down to add a few more things in but that's all we can do with the restrictions we have at the moment.Project Manager: Okay, good. Then we {gap} the same. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: That was it. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Thanks.User Interface: That's it. Cool.Marketing: Okay. it {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we can still spend this four and a half EuroMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yep.Project Manager: and to r because th th th the the selling price is already prite fik uh uh quite fixed on twenty five EurosIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: so we just have to offer as much as as {disfmarker} well value for the for the customer uh he can have for twenty five Euro.Industrial Designer: Functionality.Marketing: Okay so look and feel, innovation {disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: And now it {gap} easy to use.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Easy to use.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: {gap} target.Marketing: Mm-hmm. And trends. Oh, you following the idea of using the um removable covers on these Is that part of both of them orProject Manager: Um well w w we can still discuss that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So um, and together with evaluating this uh we we might come with new ideasMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I mean adding things or uh removing uh of options because they are too expensive,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but um I've received uh a framework which we can do this. I mean did you have this this Excel sheetMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: No.Marketing: No.Project Manager: No okay, this is these are the the the latest prices of our production uh uh production unit for several components,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so we can uh see whether the the price is is within the twelve Euro uh fifty cents uh.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: So maybe we can start with this, uh, calling this one. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Yep. So it's the pink.Project Manager: Th th this is the first design.Marketing: And the other one's green. Okay, soProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: look and feel Where um one is {vocalsound} I've broken the pen again. SProject Manager: Uh there is another pen.Marketing: yeah. Get that one. if we want an L_C_D_ dispra display, that's seven fifty um, so we've got seven fifty to use for the case and for the buttons. And the chip.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sorry the chip's up there already.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.Marketing: So we're gonna have to scale this down to get within budget, there's no doubt about that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} AIndustrial Designer: So wha what what each of us think about the {disfmarker} because it's measure point the L_C_D_, um {disfmarker} Do you think it's importantUser Interface: Or we could even replace them by buttons actually.Industrial Designer: Because sometimes whe when you watch the T_V_ in fact, you have a big display and maybe you don't need one more in your hands I dunno, I'm just asking.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Mm {disfmarker}User Interface: A actually it depends, it depends what kind of functionalities you want to add into it,Marketing: Yep.User Interface: for example if you add two more functionalities then better you add two more buttons, or {disfmarker} and you'll have L_C_D_ display which is {disfmarker} that is going to bring the cost by two two Euros at least.Marketing: Mm. Yeah. I think, unless we can really drive these prices down we need to get rid of the L_C_D_ display.User Interface: Okay so we can get rid of itIndustrial Designer: Yeah, it's true yeah.User Interface: and then add a couple of buttons.Industrial Designer: But uh, do we want that On the market point of view, yeah. What do you think uh, L_C_D_ is a major feature, orProject Manager: Mm. IMarketing: For the price, it's gonna be what we can afford, and it's looking like we can't afford the L_C_D_ display, there's no way we can get it in there. {vocalsound} Mm.Project Manager: I {gap} think we have to come to a decision now, by five is four point twoUser Interface: Four point {disfmarker} Uh four point two.Marketing: yep.Industrial Designer: Very good.Marketing: Okay. But we still got a very different price for those two so they're not really comparable yet anyway.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. We {disfmarker} we must try to get them closer.Industrial Designer: Yeah, it's right, yeah that's right.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Both in i iUser Interface: Wow.Project Manager: or we just have to choose. And adapt.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Because, when we choose for this one we have to {vocalsound} we have to make it more attractiveMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and w when we {gap} to d for this one we have to make it more cheap.Marketing: Well it's easier to just make that one cheaper by just taking the speech recognition out.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes, well {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: That'll basically take us down to the budget.Project Manager: But I'm {vocalsound} now {disfmarker} did y did you work with the same prices that I have hereIndustrial Designer: So I I give yeah I just give a call with the manufacturer uh and uh I explained them and they told me this could be possible for sixteen Fr Euros.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: Uh unfortunately we didn't see this chip, uh Matthew,User Interface: Yeah. Yep.Project Manager: Mm, thaIndustrial Designer: so maybe we have to recap with this one.User Interface: Maybe we ought to reconsider everything with this, yeah.Project Manager: Well yes, well uh re reconsider it. So {vocalsound} let's let's try to to model this this phone in this sheet,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: uh what kind of energy source uh I I {disfmarker} we didn't speak about that. It's a {disfmarker} it's a normal battery, or {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, it migh It {disfmarker} it'll need uh more than a conventional one, it won't be uh just

What did the team discuss about the product cost

The first design obviously met the requirements of the budget so the team focused on the second one to see whether the combination of the two designs could together form an innovative design but was under the budget at the same time. To cut costs, the Project Manager first suggested using normal chips only in exchange for the speech recognition function. The special color was left to the case and it was designed as curved on the sides and curved on the top and bottom as well. Later, the team had argued a lot whether to eliminate the number of buttons or to discard LCD displays. However, if the number of buttons were to be eliminated, it would be far more complicated to use the device, since users must press one button several times to get to the channel. After a vote and discussion about the cost, the team decided to discard both the LCD display and the speech recognition functions since they were really expensive and the later one could not work without the existence of the former one.

are the innovations with this Got the L_C_D_ screen.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Yeah automatic speech recognition.Marketing: Is that in this one though Is this {disfmarker}'cause this is the {disfmarker} Th th there were different options we discussed then,User Interface: No, we haMarketing: we discussed the one that was in budget and the one that was out of budget.Project Manager: We just diske discuss it as you designed itMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: and then we will will try to get it in the budget.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So the cost for these were {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: what was the cost for the first one Eight EurosProject Manager: Eight.Industrial Designer: Eight. Well actually we have yeah to check again yeah.User Interface: Yeah, eight Euros yeah.Marketing: And this one was sixteen Euros.Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: Sixteen.User Interface: Sixteen Euros.Marketing: Okay. So. Innovation for this one is two OneUser Interface: It's a two, I would say two {gap}.Marketing: TwoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: W W un to be one what would do we nee actually, yeah, I don't see {disfmarker}Project Manager: Why it is one.Industrial Designer: okay, one would would be without buttons, {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: A man {disfmarker} w wMarketing: Mm. WellUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: the speech recognition is a very good innovation I believe it,Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: BuMarketing: so {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah. So maybe we can put one.Project Manager: This this is it w with the speech recognitionIndustrial Designer: It's using speech recognition, yeah.Project Manager: Well.User Interface: Okay yeah.Project Manager: Gi given that {vocalsound} that it works,Marketing: Give it a oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah, one, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} then it's I think one.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Ease of useUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So the first one is really standard,Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: so everybody i including our grandmothers can people to use it. It's not going to be easy. Doing that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm. So umIndustrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: I I think we should we should cut the L_C_D_ screen. That that's that's my opinion.User Interface: No, it's okay, you uh cut the L_C_D_ screenProject Manager: Just {disfmarker}User Interface: and introduce two more buttons.Marketing: Okay. So L_C_D_'s out, is speech rec out now We've {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The speech recognition is out. Because of the budget, yeah.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Uh where, L_C_ {disfmarker}Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Okay w we now we can just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: So are we basically back to the original one now, back to the first version Which turns out to be on budget exactly, pretty much. With these new costings.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Marketing: So {gap} just look at {disfmarker} forget that one and look at that one now.Project Manager: Yes. Yes. I th I th I think w we just go for this oneIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: and that that now twelve Euros is the is is the price,Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Okay. Well that's that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: My m my supervisor will be glad that it's fifty cents cheaper than he expected.Marketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: Actually yeah,Marketing: So.Industrial Designer: we we we will not need the really uh expert designers um because the amount, yeah.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yep. So w we can go back and l talk to the suppliers maybeProject Manager: Okay.Marketing: and see if we can drive the prices down to add a few more things in but that's all we can do with the restrictions we have at the moment.Project Manager: Okay, good. Then we {gap} the same. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: That was it. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Thanks.User Interface: That's it. Cool.Marketing: Okay. it {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we can still spend this four and a half EuroMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yep.Project Manager: and to r because th th th the the selling price is already prite fik uh uh quite fixed on twenty five EurosIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: so we just have to offer as much as as {disfmarker} well value for the for the customer uh he can have for twenty five Euro.Industrial Designer: Functionality.Marketing: Okay so look and feel, innovation {disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: And now it {gap} easy to use.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Easy to use.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: {gap} target.Marketing: Mm-hmm. And trends. Oh, you following the idea of using the um removable covers on these Is that part of both of them orProject Manager: Um well w w we can still discuss that.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: So um, and together with evaluating this uh we we might come with new ideasMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: I mean adding things or uh removing uh of options because they are too expensive,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but um I've received uh a framework which we can do this. I mean did you have this this Excel sheetMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.User Interface: No.Marketing: No.Project Manager: No okay, this is these are the the the latest prices of our production uh uh production unit for several components,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so we can uh see whether the the price is is within the twelve Euro uh fifty cents uh.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Okay.Project Manager: So maybe we can start with this, uh, calling this one. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Yep. So it's the pink.Project Manager: Th th this is the first design.Marketing: And the other one's green. Okay, soProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: look and feel Where um one is {vocalsound} I've broken the pen again. SProject Manager: Uh there is another pen.Marketing: yeah. Get that one. if we want an L_C_D_ dispra display, that's seven fifty um, so we've got seven fifty to use for the case and for the buttons. And the chip.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Sorry the chip's up there already.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.Marketing: So we're gonna have to scale this down to get within budget, there's no doubt about that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} AIndustrial Designer: So wha what what each of us think about the {disfmarker} because it's measure point the L_C_D_, um {disfmarker} Do you think it's importantUser Interface: Or we could even replace them by buttons actually.Industrial Designer: Because sometimes whe when you watch the T_V_ in fact, you have a big display and maybe you don't need one more in your hands I dunno, I'm just asking.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Mm {disfmarker}User Interface: A actually it depends, it depends what kind of functionalities you want to add into it,Marketing: Yep.User Interface: for example if you add two more functionalities then better you add two more buttons, or {disfmarker} and you'll have L_C_D_ display which is {disfmarker} that is going to bring the cost by two two Euros at least.Marketing: Mm. Yeah. I think, unless we can really drive these prices down we need to get rid of the L_C_D_ display.User Interface: Okay so we can get rid of itIndustrial Designer: Yeah, it's true yeah.User Interface: and then add a couple of buttons.Industrial Designer: But uh, do we want that On the market point of view, yeah. What do you think uh, L_C_D_ is a major feature, orProject Manager: Mm. IMarketing: For the price, it's gonna be what we can afford, and it's looking like we can't afford the L_C_D_ display, there's no way we can get it in there. {vocalsound} Mm.Project Manager: I {gap} think we have to come to a decision now, it's good, when you don't stay in you have to redesign. There is no {vocalsound} uh no negotiation uh {vocalsound} possible in this matter. So we have to consider that. {vocalsound} Good.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Um so maybe Anna, you can have your presentation.Marketing: Well we can't {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} we can't do evaluation'til we have a design.Project Manager: Okay Matthew. Nice uh you are here.Industrial Designer: Great.Project Manager: Great. Great. Oh ma maybe then you can start now with mm presenting your uh your designs.Industrial Designer: Yep. So I will start by the the basic one that uh fits into uh eight Euros actually, right, seven eight Euros,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and uh well first for both they have um a special shape, maybe the designer can uh explain better than me, but uh it's like a surf board.Marketing: Mm'kay.Industrial Designer: And you you are supposed to surf to browse to surf T_V_, maybe the web, and uh it's kind of interesting shape because um unconsciously people want to s to surf {vocalsound} when they see this stuff.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Or browse.Industrial Designer: And also it's not too far from um a mobile.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: So people are used to that kind of shape,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: right. Don't take care too much about the colour because w yeah we don't take {disfmarker}User Interface: Now we are supposed to give some oper offers right now.Industrial Designer: yeah. So here would be basically the the the infrared uh uh ledMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Eye.User Interface: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah.Industrial Designer: yeah L_A_ L_A_ L_E_D_,User Interface: L_E_D_.Industrial Designer: the on-off button, in red.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Here would be the volume. On the on the left,Marketing: Oh yeah.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: okay, so {gap}User

Summarize the whole meeting.

Firstly, Industrial Designer introduced both the cheap one and the other, the expensive prototype of remote control based on the previous discussion of its function. Both the devices had the special shape, like the surf-board. The first prototype was a pretty simple design with LCD display and a conventional layout of buttons. The second prototype was advanced in its speech recognition function and looked like a fashion mobile phone. Secondly, Marketing designed an evaluation test, focusing on its look and feel, innovation and ease of use and the team were asked to give one to seven points to each feature of the product to compare the two prototypes. Thirdly, the team calculated the cost of both the prototypes and found that the second one had exceeded the budget to a great extent. As a result they discussed and voted a lot to discard the advanced functions and eliminate the number of the push buttons, which made the budget under control.

components that obviously need to go in there. We'll start with an energy source. Right. Um which is usually a battery right {vocalsound} Since it's not feasible to add a cable to that. This energy source of course is connected to the the user interface itself {vocalsound}. Uh which can be buttons, whatever, which in fact controls a chip. Right This is the user interface and there we have the chip. Um the way this goes normally is that this chip then controls an infrared lamp. That sends out the signal. Of course the signal differs accordingly. Um depending on what the chip tells the infrared lan lamp. And {disfmarker} Of course that's controlled, the chip itself is controlled by the user interface. The way you normally normally do it is that you add a little device such as a lamp to the whole thing as well, so that you know that it's working basically. You press something, you get a response. Which is also comparatively um important on one of those devices. Now this, what we're talking about here, or what I think should be discussed are these two components mostly. The the uh energy source for one thing can be altered. What we probably cannot alter is of course the infrared, the sending device basically, the infrared lamp. We cannot change the chip which controls the infrared lamp. Right These two are components that we have to use, and these are dictated by the whole function of the whole thing. Um the lamp can be put onto the desi the device. It c it doesn't have to be there. This can be discussed as well. {vocalsound} The user interface. That's something we can also discuss. Um as we've heard uh speech recognition is the hype obviously in the else, they kept track of the frequency per hour in using certain buttons. And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all. Of course channel selection is used the most frequently. And then teletext was the next. Volume and then power. And then audio settings and screen settings and channel settings were practically never used. So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button. Um the biggest user frustrations, as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere, and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be a good idea. They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote. And twenty six percent said that the controls are bad for R_S_I_. {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury.Marketing: What is itUser Interface: Just repetitive strain injury. I think. That's what I guess.Marketing: Okay. Okay. And so bas okay. Um as far as speech recognition goes, um the younger group looks like they're all for it. From the fifteen to twenty five age group over ninety percent said they would pay more. And it kind of just went down incrementally. The groups at {disfmarker} the older they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay, so maybe we could discuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing in this. At least if we're targeting the younger groups. And so in conclusion. Some things that I drew from this are that I think we were correct. We definitely need to focus on a new modern appearance, since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote we were going with our our ball.User Interface: Yeah it would be quite good.Project Manager: Or or with {disfmarker} you know I guess with any form that that would be good.User Interface: The ball could sit on a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: You know that could be the charger. For you knowUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: we could use rechargeable batteries in the remote. And that would be {disfmarker} or solar. Or you know {disfmarker} However, however you wanted to go about it, the holder could also be the charging unit. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: With the locator button. Um and if it were the ball you'd no longer have to have a flat space on it.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um likeIndustrial Designer: WellProject Manager: ifIndustrial Designer: you still do.Project Manager: we still have the how to hold on to itIndustrial Designer: You s you still {disfmarker} W yeah. You put it on t on the couch table.Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's gonna roll away.Industrial Designer: While you're watching,Marketing: {vocalsound} Rolls awayIndustrial Designer: it's gonna roll off. SoMarketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: that's not an issue really.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So I guess after the meeting {vocalsound} we'll have some questionnaires. And uh and some summaries for for what's going on. Um then we'll take lunch. Then we can come back and uh work on our individual work. Um {disfmarker} I'll do the minutes. Uh let's see. It looks like you're already on your way for uh working with the components. Um chips, the what chips we needIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: and what uh you know how to power it and whatnot. User interface concept, we want it to be something simple.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} Minimal number of buttons. I guess our, I guess our main um main thing that we should through nine. For typing in your channels. Uh you've got volume, up and down. Channel up and down.Marketing: Power.Project Manager: Power. Usually at the top. Um a mute.Industrial Designer: That's the classical design.Project Manager: That's that's pretty much all you need I think. Um {disfmarker} A menu button, maybe.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So you know. If you, if we want the remote to do other things like um {disfmarker} or I guess the T_V_ to be able to change the tint and the colour and you know all those kind of things that are built into T_V_s, we just have that under one standard menu button where you go in, press the menu button, scroll up and down to select it.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talking of which maybe a scrolling function is not not too bad.Project Manager:'Kay so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talk about maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} f look at that from the side, there maybe.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which is technically the easiest option. Would probably be like a scrolling, little scrolling wheel like this.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.Project Manager: Like a wheel on your mouse.Industrial Designer: Yeah, sort of like that.Project Manager: Sort of.Industrial Designer: You can even if we're coming from mice, we can even add a click function, where you, in order to verify the information you just press it down. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}'S a good idea.Industrial Designer: Also when it comes to the ergonomics of the whole thing, if you wanna make it square for the looks of it, then maybe to make it more comfortable to hold the whole thing, you add a little bulge down here. Just which maybe from an engineering point this could be holding the the batteries and if we remove the universal remote then that solves that problem. Um no teletext. Um {disfmarker} So we don't have to worry about that. Um but we do have to use the the company wants us to incorporate the corporate colour and our slogan, which is we put the fashion in electronics. And our corporate colours are grey and yellow. And we could probably get away with black too but {disfmarker} So those are the three um the three new requirements that that I was told we need to use. Um from all all three of your uh presentations, I think that we were on the right track a lot in our last meeting. We want something that looks good. Um we want something that's simple. We want something that you can find easily. Um {disfmarker} And the speech recognition I I guess is kind of uh give or take. It's gonna cost more. S the young the younger people say that they like it.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: But um it's probably, I would say, probably not worth the investment at this point in time. So maybe we should just do away with speech recognition. Um {disfmarker} And that way we can focus on our form.User Interface: I did have have a thought about the sort of the tracking thing. Is that {disfmarker} if it came with maybe a holder or holster, whatever you wanna call it. Um that you you should put it back in. Your remote. But if you don't put it back in, you press something like a little button on that, and that just sort of sends out a beep {vocalsound} to find where it is or something. Just by infrared. That shouldn't be too complex I would've thought.Project Manager: That'd be, that'd be good if

Summarize the presentation on Market Research and adjustments due to new project demands.

Through market research, Marketing believed that the modern appearance of the remote control is important. Useless buttons can be combined or multi-functional remote control can be designed. Voice recognition function and positioning function are necessary.

components that obviously need to go in there. We'll start with an energy source. Right. Um which is usually a battery right {vocalsound} Since it's not feasible to add a cable to that. This energy source of course is connected to the the user interface itself {vocalsound}. Uh which can be buttons, whatever, which in fact controls a chip. Right This is the user interface and there we have the chip. Um the way this goes normally is that this chip then controls an infrared lamp. That sends out the signal. Of course the signal differs accordingly. Um depending on what the chip tells the infrared lan lamp. And {disfmarker} Of course that's controlled, the chip itself is controlled by the user interface. The way you normally normally do it is that you add a little device such as a lamp to the whole thing as well, so that you know that it's working basically. You press something, you get a response. Which is also comparatively um important on one of those devices. Now this, what we're talking about here, or what I think should be discussed are these two components mostly. The the uh energy source for one thing can be altered. What we probably cannot alter is of course the infrared, the sending device basically, the infrared lamp. We cannot change the chip which controls the infrared lamp. Right These two are components that we have to use, and these are dictated by the whole function of the whole thing. Um the lamp can be put onto the desi the device. It c it doesn't have to be there. This can be discussed as well. {vocalsound} The user interface. That's something we can also discuss. Um as we've heard uh speech recognition is the hype obviously in the through nine. For typing in your channels. Uh you've got volume, up and down. Channel up and down.Marketing: Power.Project Manager: Power. Usually at the top. Um a mute.Industrial Designer: That's the classical design.Project Manager: That's that's pretty much all you need I think. Um {disfmarker} A menu button, maybe.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So you know. If you, if we want the remote to do other things like um {disfmarker} or I guess the T_V_ to be able to change the tint and the colour and you know all those kind of things that are built into T_V_s, we just have that under one standard menu button where you go in, press the menu button, scroll up and down to select it.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talking of which maybe a scrolling function is not not too bad.Project Manager:'Kay so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talk about maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} f look at that from the side, there maybe.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which is technically the easiest option. Would probably be like a scrolling, little scrolling wheel like this.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.Project Manager: Like a wheel on your mouse.Industrial Designer: Yeah, sort of like that.Project Manager: Sort of.Industrial Designer: You can even if we're coming from mice, we can even add a click function, where you, in order to verify the information you just press it down. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}'S a good idea.Industrial Designer: Also when it comes to the ergonomics of the whole thing, if you wanna make it square for the looks of it, then maybe to make it more comfortable to hold the whole thing, you add a little bulge down here. Just which maybe from an engineering point this could be holding the the batteries and else, they kept track of the frequency per hour in using certain buttons. And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all. Of course channel selection is used the most frequently. And then teletext was the next. Volume and then power. And then audio settings and screen settings and channel settings were practically never used. So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button. Um the biggest user frustrations, as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere, and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be a good idea. They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote. And twenty six percent said that the controls are bad for R_S_I_. {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury.Marketing: What is itUser Interface: Just repetitive strain injury. I think. That's what I guess.Marketing: Okay. Okay. And so bas okay. Um as far as speech recognition goes, um the younger group looks like they're all for it. From the fifteen to twenty five age group over ninety percent said they would pay more. And it kind of just went down incrementally. The groups at {disfmarker} the older they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay, so maybe we could discuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing in this. At least if we're targeting the younger groups. And so in conclusion. Some things that I drew from this are that I think we were correct. We definitely need to focus on a new modern appearance, since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote we were going with our our ball.User Interface: Yeah it would be quite good.Project Manager: Or or with {disfmarker} you know I guess with any form that that would be good.User Interface: The ball could sit on a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: You know that could be the charger. For you knowUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: we could use rechargeable batteries in the remote. And that would be {disfmarker} or solar. Or you know {disfmarker} However, however you wanted to go about it, the holder could also be the charging unit. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: With the locator button. Um and if it were the ball you'd no longer have to have a flat space on it.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um likeIndustrial Designer: WellProject Manager: ifIndustrial Designer: you still do.Project Manager: we still have the how to hold on to itIndustrial Designer: You s you still {disfmarker} W yeah. You put it on t on the couch table.Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's gonna roll away.Industrial Designer: While you're watching,Marketing: {vocalsound} Rolls awayIndustrial Designer: it's gonna roll off. SoMarketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: that's not an issue really.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So I guess after the meeting {vocalsound} we'll have some questionnaires. And uh and some summaries for for what's going on. Um then we'll take lunch. Then we can come back and uh work on our individual work. Um {disfmarker} I'll do the minutes. Uh let's see. It looks like you're already on your way for uh working with the components. Um chips, the what chips we needIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: and what uh you know how to power it and whatnot. User interface concept, we want it to be something simple.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} Minimal number of buttons. I guess our, I guess our main um main thing that we should Like the written language. {vocalsound} Or English.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Maybe you could buy like a special left-handed version of the remote. {vocalsound} Special order.Project Manager: Maybe. Ow. I would say I mean it should be probably designed for a right-handed p person.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um but that's that's good. That's {disfmarker} w I think we've got a kind of a good plan there. Um {disfmarker} At least for what buttons we're gonna use. Um {disfmarker} So we've got uh {disfmarker} I like the scroll, the scroll action and the {disfmarker} {gap}.User Interface: I mean I'm just just thinking maybe if it was um circular um with the sort of {disfmarker} that sort of {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the sort of early idea we had, with the way that was more like that, whereas this is just a one-handed thing that you sort of almost wrap round the thumb. So you'd have your, you'd put your hand into there with the thumb there. And then your thumb would do {disfmarker} you'd have all the buttons sort of round here. And that I think could work. On any hand. If you just had it like wrapped round there. Left or right.Project Manager: Yeah. Kinda like holding a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Right. {vocalsound} That minimises it size-wise as well.User Interface: {vocalsound} Minimise its size. It could be you know really quite small.Industrial Designer: Mm. Then there's maybe another point of making it a two-in-one kind of thing. If we have a smaller a smaller device that actually fits into the big one. You give it the full functions in here, and just a couple of functions in there. Like your zap zapping device is just u channels up-down, uh volume, and on-off.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Hmm.User Interface: Zapping functions.Industrial Designer: That's it.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial

What ideas did User Interface suggest when discussing market research and related adjustments

User Interface advocated to adjust to meet the needs of users from the perspective of technical function design. It is mainly user-centred, reducing buttons and making it easier to use. In addition, User Interface suggested that the general remote controller proposed by marketing will increase the budget and button, so the research should be stopped and focused on the remote control's appearance design.

components that obviously need to go in there. We'll start with an energy source. Right. Um which is usually a battery right {vocalsound} Since it's not feasible to add a cable to that. This energy source of course is connected to the the user interface itself {vocalsound}. Uh which can be buttons, whatever, which in fact controls a chip. Right This is the user interface and there we have the chip. Um the way this goes normally is that this chip then controls an infrared lamp. That sends out the signal. Of course the signal differs accordingly. Um depending on what the chip tells the infrared lan lamp. And {disfmarker} Of course that's controlled, the chip itself is controlled by the user interface. The way you normally normally do it is that you add a little device such as a lamp to the whole thing as well, so that you know that it's working basically. You press something, you get a response. Which is also comparatively um important on one of those devices. Now this, what we're talking about here, or what I think should be discussed are these two components mostly. The the uh energy source for one thing can be altered. What we probably cannot alter is of course the infrared, the sending device basically, the infrared lamp. We cannot change the chip which controls the infrared lamp. Right These two are components that we have to use, and these are dictated by the whole function of the whole thing. Um the lamp can be put onto the desi the device. It c it doesn't have to be there. This can be discussed as well. {vocalsound} The user interface. That's something we can also discuss. Um as we've heard uh speech recognition is the hype obviously in the through nine. For typing in your channels. Uh you've got volume, up and down. Channel up and down.Marketing: Power.Project Manager: Power. Usually at the top. Um a mute.Industrial Designer: That's the classical design.Project Manager: That's that's pretty much all you need I think. Um {disfmarker} A menu button, maybe.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So you know. If you, if we want the remote to do other things like um {disfmarker} or I guess the T_V_ to be able to change the tint and the colour and you know all those kind of things that are built into T_V_s, we just have that under one standard menu button where you go in, press the menu button, scroll up and down to select it.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talking of which maybe a scrolling function is not not too bad.Project Manager:'Kay so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talk about maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} f look at that from the side, there maybe.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which is technically the easiest option. Would probably be like a scrolling, little scrolling wheel like this.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.Project Manager: Like a wheel on your mouse.Industrial Designer: Yeah, sort of like that.Project Manager: Sort of.Industrial Designer: You can even if we're coming from mice, we can even add a click function, where you, in order to verify the information you just press it down. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}'S a good idea.Industrial Designer: Also when it comes to the ergonomics of the whole thing, if you wanna make it square for the looks of it, then maybe to make it more comfortable to hold the whole thing, you add a little bulge down here. Just which maybe from an engineering point this could be holding the the batteries and we were going with our our ball.User Interface: Yeah it would be quite good.Project Manager: Or or with {disfmarker} you know I guess with any form that that would be good.User Interface: The ball could sit on a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: You know that could be the charger. For you knowUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: we could use rechargeable batteries in the remote. And that would be {disfmarker} or solar. Or you know {disfmarker} However, however you wanted to go about it, the holder could also be the charging unit. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: With the locator button. Um and if it were the ball you'd no longer have to have a flat space on it.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um likeIndustrial Designer: WellProject Manager: ifIndustrial Designer: you still do.Project Manager: we still have the how to hold on to itIndustrial Designer: You s you still {disfmarker} W yeah. You put it on t on the couch table.Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's gonna roll away.Industrial Designer: While you're watching,Marketing: {vocalsound} Rolls awayIndustrial Designer: it's gonna roll off. SoMarketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: that's not an issue really.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So I guess after the meeting {vocalsound} we'll have some questionnaires. And uh and some summaries for for what's going on. Um then we'll take lunch. Then we can come back and uh work on our individual work. Um {disfmarker} I'll do the minutes. Uh let's see. It looks like you're already on your way for uh working with the components. Um chips, the what chips we needIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: and what uh you know how to power it and whatnot. User interface concept, we want it to be something simple.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} Minimal number of buttons. I guess our, I guess our main um main thing that we should else, they kept track of the frequency per hour in using certain buttons. And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all. Of course channel selection is used the most frequently. And then teletext was the next. Volume and then power. And then audio settings and screen settings and channel settings were practically never used. So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button. Um the biggest user frustrations, as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere, and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be a good idea. They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote. And twenty six percent said that the controls are bad for R_S_I_. {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury.Marketing: What is itUser Interface: Just repetitive strain injury. I think. That's what I guess.Marketing: Okay. Okay. And so bas okay. Um as far as speech recognition goes, um the younger group looks like they're all for it. From the fifteen to twenty five age group over ninety percent said they would pay more. And it kind of just went down incrementally. The groups at {disfmarker} the older they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay, so maybe we could discuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing in this. At least if we're targeting the younger groups. And so in conclusion. Some things that I drew from this are that I think we were correct. We definitely need to focus on a new modern appearance, since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote silly.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe if you're sitting on your couch with a bunch of people then you know, you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: And wou I don't know if would would you want to keep saying stuff if you were watching stuff. If you were watching something would you sort of be wanting {disfmarker}Project Manager: Volume up. Volume down. Change the channel, you know channel up, channel downUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I I don't know.Marketing: Another thing about these figures is ninety one percent of the youngest age groups said they'd do it, but probably a lot of them that's actually their parents money. Like I don't know if they would actually go out and purchase this themselves, a fifteen year old you know.User Interface: I think {disfmarker} As well it'd be j the gimmick factor for the younger people.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But practically I don't think it's {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's a, it's a gimmick factor that they like at first, and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah. It'll wear off.Marketing: Gets old yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Um {disfmarker} Let's see here.User Interface: Do you wanna put your cord back inProject Manager: Yeah I guess so.Industrial Designer: Oh right. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Trade you.Industrial Designer: {gap} go. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now I was sent a couple of things to modify our uh new requirements. Um the remote's only gonna be for the television, which is good because we already decided {disfmarker} y your your research showed that uh not only is a universal remote more complicated, it's more cost, more costly. And your re uh research showed that you know most of the people don't even use it. I think uh you said fifty percent of the people only use half the or ten percent of the buttons.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: So

What ideas did Industrial Designer suggest when discussing market research and related adjustments

Industrial Designer believed that the basic function of the remote control is to send messages to another system. The remote control needed an energy source to supply power to the integrated circuit, and had a chip and related information to control the infrared lamp. In the design, it can make the battery and infrared lamp cheaper and more sustainable. It can also add the design of speech recognition interface according to the market research provided by Marketing.

components that obviously need to go in there. We'll start with an energy source. Right. Um which is usually a battery right {vocalsound} Since it's not feasible to add a cable to that. This energy source of course is connected to the the user interface itself {vocalsound}. Uh which can be buttons, whatever, which in fact controls a chip. Right This is the user interface and there we have the chip. Um the way this goes normally is that this chip then controls an infrared lamp. That sends out the signal. Of course the signal differs accordingly. Um depending on what the chip tells the infrared lan lamp. And {disfmarker} Of course that's controlled, the chip itself is controlled by the user interface. The way you normally normally do it is that you add a little device such as a lamp to the whole thing as well, so that you know that it's working basically. You press something, you get a response. Which is also comparatively um important on one of those devices. Now this, what we're talking about here, or what I think should be discussed are these two components mostly. The the uh energy source for one thing can be altered. What we probably cannot alter is of course the infrared, the sending device basically, the infrared lamp. We cannot change the chip which controls the infrared lamp. Right These two are components that we have to use, and these are dictated by the whole function of the whole thing. Um the lamp can be put onto the desi the device. It c it doesn't have to be there. This can be discussed as well. {vocalsound} The user interface. That's something we can also discuss. Um as we've heard uh speech recognition is the hype obviously in the else, they kept track of the frequency per hour in using certain buttons. And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all. Of course channel selection is used the most frequently. And then teletext was the next. Volume and then power. And then audio settings and screen settings and channel settings were practically never used. So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button. Um the biggest user frustrations, as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere, and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be a good idea. They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote. And twenty six percent said that the controls are bad for R_S_I_. {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury.Marketing: What is itUser Interface: Just repetitive strain injury. I think. That's what I guess.Marketing: Okay. Okay. And so bas okay. Um as far as speech recognition goes, um the younger group looks like they're all for it. From the fifteen to twenty five age group over ninety percent said they would pay more. And it kind of just went down incrementally. The groups at {disfmarker} the older they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay, so maybe we could discuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing in this. At least if we're targeting the younger groups. And so in conclusion. Some things that I drew from this are that I think we were correct. We definitely need to focus on a new modern appearance, since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote through nine. For typing in your channels. Uh you've got volume, up and down. Channel up and down.Marketing: Power.Project Manager: Power. Usually at the top. Um a mute.Industrial Designer: That's the classical design.Project Manager: That's that's pretty much all you need I think. Um {disfmarker} A menu button, maybe.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So you know. If you, if we want the remote to do other things like um {disfmarker} or I guess the T_V_ to be able to change the tint and the colour and you know all those kind of things that are built into T_V_s, we just have that under one standard menu button where you go in, press the menu button, scroll up and down to select it.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talking of which maybe a scrolling function is not not too bad.Project Manager:'Kay so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talk about maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} f look at that from the side, there maybe.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which is technically the easiest option. Would probably be like a scrolling, little scrolling wheel like this.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.Project Manager: Like a wheel on your mouse.Industrial Designer: Yeah, sort of like that.Project Manager: Sort of.Industrial Designer: You can even if we're coming from mice, we can even add a click function, where you, in order to verify the information you just press it down. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}'S a good idea.Industrial Designer: Also when it comes to the ergonomics of the whole thing, if you wanna make it square for the looks of it, then maybe to make it more comfortable to hold the whole thing, you add a little bulge down here. Just which maybe from an engineering point this could be holding the the batteries and we were going with our our ball.User Interface: Yeah it would be quite good.Project Manager: Or or with {disfmarker} you know I guess with any form that that would be good.User Interface: The ball could sit on a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: You know that could be the charger. For you knowUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: we could use rechargeable batteries in the remote. And that would be {disfmarker} or solar. Or you know {disfmarker} However, however you wanted to go about it, the holder could also be the charging unit. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: With the locator button. Um and if it were the ball you'd no longer have to have a flat space on it.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um likeIndustrial Designer: WellProject Manager: ifIndustrial Designer: you still do.Project Manager: we still have the how to hold on to itIndustrial Designer: You s you still {disfmarker} W yeah. You put it on t on the couch table.Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's gonna roll away.Industrial Designer: While you're watching,Marketing: {vocalsound} Rolls awayIndustrial Designer: it's gonna roll off. SoMarketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: that's not an issue really.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So I guess after the meeting {vocalsound} we'll have some questionnaires. And uh and some summaries for for what's going on. Um then we'll take lunch. Then we can come back and uh work on our individual work. Um {disfmarker} I'll do the minutes. Uh let's see. It looks like you're already on your way for uh working with the components. Um chips, the what chips we needIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: and what uh you know how to power it and whatnot. User interface concept, we want it to be something simple.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} Minimal number of buttons. I guess our, I guess our main um main thing that we should silly.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe if you're sitting on your couch with a bunch of people then you know, you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: And wou I don't know if would would you want to keep saying stuff if you were watching stuff. If you were watching something would you sort of be wanting {disfmarker}Project Manager: Volume up. Volume down. Change the channel, you know channel up, channel downUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I I don't know.Marketing: Another thing about these figures is ninety one percent of the youngest age groups said they'd do it, but probably a lot of them that's actually their parents money. Like I don't know if they would actually go out and purchase this themselves, a fifteen year old you know.User Interface: I think {disfmarker} As well it'd be j the gimmick factor for the younger people.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But practically I don't think it's {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's a, it's a gimmick factor that they like at first, and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah. It'll wear off.Marketing: Gets old yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Um {disfmarker} Let's see here.User Interface: Do you wanna put your cord back inProject Manager: Yeah I guess so.Industrial Designer: Oh right. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Trade you.Industrial Designer: {gap} go. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now I was sent a couple of things to modify our uh new requirements. Um the remote's only gonna be for the television, which is good because we already decided {disfmarker} y your your research showed that uh not only is a universal remote more complicated, it's more cost, more costly. And your re uh research showed that you know most of the people don't even use it. I think uh you said fifty percent of the people only use half the or ten percent of the buttons.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: So

What views did Project Manager get from the last meeting review and market research

From the last meeting, Project Manager concluded that the team needed to design a modern, interesting, distinctive, sturdy, positioning remote control. In order to be distinctive, the team can adopt a spherical or keyboard shape design. Based on the market research, Project Manager thought that a rechargeable battery or solar cell is necessary, and the setting of the positioner and the reduction of button number is feasible. Project Manager wanted the remote control to be used only for TV, which can save the budget. For voice recognition, he thought it was unaffordable for young people, so the design was abandoned.

else, they kept track of the frequency per hour in using certain buttons. And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all. Of course channel selection is used the most frequently. And then teletext was the next. Volume and then power. And then audio settings and screen settings and channel settings were practically never used. So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button. Um the biggest user frustrations, as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere, and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be a good idea. They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote. And twenty six percent said that the controls are bad for R_S_I_. {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury.Marketing: What is itUser Interface: Just repetitive strain injury. I think. That's what I guess.Marketing: Okay. Okay. And so bas okay. Um as far as speech recognition goes, um the younger group looks like they're all for it. From the fifteen to twenty five age group over ninety percent said they would pay more. And it kind of just went down incrementally. The groups at {disfmarker} the older they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay, so maybe we could discuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing in this. At least if we're targeting the younger groups. And so in conclusion. Some things that I drew from this are that I think we were correct. We definitely need to focus on a new modern appearance, since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote components that obviously need to go in there. We'll start with an energy source. Right. Um which is usually a battery right {vocalsound} Since it's not feasible to add a cable to that. This energy source of course is connected to the the user interface itself {vocalsound}. Uh which can be buttons, whatever, which in fact controls a chip. Right This is the user interface and there we have the chip. Um the way this goes normally is that this chip then controls an infrared lamp. That sends out the signal. Of course the signal differs accordingly. Um depending on what the chip tells the infrared lan lamp. And {disfmarker} Of course that's controlled, the chip itself is controlled by the user interface. The way you normally normally do it is that you add a little device such as a lamp to the whole thing as well, so that you know that it's working basically. You press something, you get a response. Which is also comparatively um important on one of those devices. Now this, what we're talking about here, or what I think should be discussed are these two components mostly. The the uh energy source for one thing can be altered. What we probably cannot alter is of course the infrared, the sending device basically, the infrared lamp. We cannot change the chip which controls the infrared lamp. Right These two are components that we have to use, and these are dictated by the whole function of the whole thing. Um the lamp can be put onto the desi the device. It c it doesn't have to be there. This can be discussed as well. {vocalsound} The user interface. That's something we can also discuss. Um as we've heard uh speech recognition is the hype obviously in the through nine. For typing in your channels. Uh you've got volume, up and down. Channel up and down.Marketing: Power.Project Manager: Power. Usually at the top. Um a mute.Industrial Designer: That's the classical design.Project Manager: That's that's pretty much all you need I think. Um {disfmarker} A menu button, maybe.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So you know. If you, if we want the remote to do other things like um {disfmarker} or I guess the T_V_ to be able to change the tint and the colour and you know all those kind of things that are built into T_V_s, we just have that under one standard menu button where you go in, press the menu button, scroll up and down to select it.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talking of which maybe a scrolling function is not not too bad.Project Manager:'Kay so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talk about maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} f look at that from the side, there maybe.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which is technically the easiest option. Would probably be like a scrolling, little scrolling wheel like this.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.Project Manager: Like a wheel on your mouse.Industrial Designer: Yeah, sort of like that.Project Manager: Sort of.Industrial Designer: You can even if we're coming from mice, we can even add a click function, where you, in order to verify the information you just press it down. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}'S a good idea.Industrial Designer: Also when it comes to the ergonomics of the whole thing, if you wanna make it square for the looks of it, then maybe to make it more comfortable to hold the whole thing, you add a little bulge down here. Just which maybe from an engineering point this could be holding the the batteries and we were going with our our ball.User Interface: Yeah it would be quite good.Project Manager: Or or with {disfmarker} you know I guess with any form that that would be good.User Interface: The ball could sit on a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: You know that could be the charger. For you knowUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: we could use rechargeable batteries in the remote. And that would be {disfmarker} or solar. Or you know {disfmarker} However, however you wanted to go about it, the holder could also be the charging unit. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: With the locator button. Um and if it were the ball you'd no longer have to have a flat space on it.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um likeIndustrial Designer: WellProject Manager: ifIndustrial Designer: you still do.Project Manager: we still have the how to hold on to itIndustrial Designer: You s you still {disfmarker} W yeah. You put it on t on the couch table.Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's gonna roll away.Industrial Designer: While you're watching,Marketing: {vocalsound} Rolls awayIndustrial Designer: it's gonna roll off. SoMarketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: that's not an issue really.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So I guess after the meeting {vocalsound} we'll have some questionnaires. And uh and some summaries for for what's going on. Um then we'll take lunch. Then we can come back and uh work on our individual work. Um {disfmarker} I'll do the minutes. Uh let's see. It looks like you're already on your way for uh working with the components. Um chips, the what chips we needIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: and what uh you know how to power it and whatnot. User interface concept, we want it to be something simple.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} Minimal number of buttons. I guess our, I guess our main um main thing that we should silly.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe if you're sitting on your couch with a bunch of people then you know, you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: And wou I don't know if would would you want to keep saying stuff if you were watching stuff. If you were watching something would you sort of be wanting {disfmarker}Project Manager: Volume up. Volume down. Change the channel, you know channel up, channel downUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I I don't know.Marketing: Another thing about these figures is ninety one percent of the youngest age groups said they'd do it, but probably a lot of them that's actually their parents money. Like I don't know if they would actually go out and purchase this themselves, a fifteen year old you know.User Interface: I think {disfmarker} As well it'd be j the gimmick factor for the younger people.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But practically I don't think it's {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's a, it's a gimmick factor that they like at first, and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah. It'll wear off.Marketing: Gets old yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Um {disfmarker} Let's see here.User Interface: Do you wanna put your cord back inProject Manager: Yeah I guess so.Industrial Designer: Oh right. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Trade you.Industrial Designer: {gap} go. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now I was sent a couple of things to modify our uh new requirements. Um the remote's only gonna be for the television, which is good because we already decided {disfmarker} y your your research showed that uh not only is a universal remote more complicated, it's more cost, more costly. And your re uh research showed that you know most of the people don't even use it. I think uh you said fifty percent of the people only use half the or ten percent of the buttons.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: So

Summarize the team's discussion on the specific shape design of the remote control.

The project manager thought that the shape of the remote control can be designed as a bone or cube to reduce the number of buttons, and add the company's yellow and grey color. Marketing believed that anti lost equipment can be designed. Since it's a one-handed project, Marketing proposed to design a special version for left-hand users. User Interface thought that the sphere is not suitable for one hand use, the rectangle variant can be used. The more important the button is, the bigger it is and the closer it is to the thumb for easy operation.

else, they kept track of the frequency per hour in using certain buttons. And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all. Of course channel selection is used the most frequently. And then teletext was the next. Volume and then power. And then audio settings and screen settings and channel settings were practically never used. So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button. Um the biggest user frustrations, as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere, and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be a good idea. They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote. And twenty six percent said that the controls are bad for R_S_I_. {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury.Marketing: What is itUser Interface: Just repetitive strain injury. I think. That's what I guess.Marketing: Okay. Okay. And so bas okay. Um as far as speech recognition goes, um the younger group looks like they're all for it. From the fifteen to twenty five age group over ninety percent said they would pay more. And it kind of just went down incrementally. The groups at {disfmarker} the older they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay, so maybe we could discuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing in this. At least if we're targeting the younger groups. And so in conclusion. Some things that I drew from this are that I think we were correct. We definitely need to focus on a new modern appearance, since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote components that obviously need to go in there. We'll start with an energy source. Right. Um which is usually a battery right {vocalsound} Since it's not feasible to add a cable to that. This energy source of course is connected to the the user interface itself {vocalsound}. Uh which can be buttons, whatever, which in fact controls a chip. Right This is the user interface and there we have the chip. Um the way this goes normally is that this chip then controls an infrared lamp. That sends out the signal. Of course the signal differs accordingly. Um depending on what the chip tells the infrared lan lamp. And {disfmarker} Of course that's controlled, the chip itself is controlled by the user interface. The way you normally normally do it is that you add a little device such as a lamp to the whole thing as well, so that you know that it's working basically. You press something, you get a response. Which is also comparatively um important on one of those devices. Now this, what we're talking about here, or what I think should be discussed are these two components mostly. The the uh energy source for one thing can be altered. What we probably cannot alter is of course the infrared, the sending device basically, the infrared lamp. We cannot change the chip which controls the infrared lamp. Right These two are components that we have to use, and these are dictated by the whole function of the whole thing. Um the lamp can be put onto the desi the device. It c it doesn't have to be there. This can be discussed as well. {vocalsound} The user interface. That's something we can also discuss. Um as we've heard uh speech recognition is the hype obviously in the through nine. For typing in your channels. Uh you've got volume, up and down. Channel up and down.Marketing: Power.Project Manager: Power. Usually at the top. Um a mute.Industrial Designer: That's the classical design.Project Manager: That's that's pretty much all you need I think. Um {disfmarker} A menu button, maybe.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So you know. If you, if we want the remote to do other things like um {disfmarker} or I guess the T_V_ to be able to change the tint and the colour and you know all those kind of things that are built into T_V_s, we just have that under one standard menu button where you go in, press the menu button, scroll up and down to select it.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talking of which maybe a scrolling function is not not too bad.Project Manager:'Kay so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talk about maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} f look at that from the side, there maybe.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which is technically the easiest option. Would probably be like a scrolling, little scrolling wheel like this.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.Project Manager: Like a wheel on your mouse.Industrial Designer: Yeah, sort of like that.Project Manager: Sort of.Industrial Designer: You can even if we're coming from mice, we can even add a click function, where you, in order to verify the information you just press it down. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}'S a good idea.Industrial Designer: Also when it comes to the ergonomics of the whole thing, if you wanna make it square for the looks of it, then maybe to make it more comfortable to hold the whole thing, you add a little bulge down here. Just which maybe from an engineering point this could be holding the the batteries and we were going with our our ball.User Interface: Yeah it would be quite good.Project Manager: Or or with {disfmarker} you know I guess with any form that that would be good.User Interface: The ball could sit on a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: You know that could be the charger. For you knowUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: we could use rechargeable batteries in the remote. And that would be {disfmarker} or solar. Or you know {disfmarker} However, however you wanted to go about it, the holder could also be the charging unit. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: With the locator button. Um and if it were the ball you'd no longer have to have a flat space on it.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um likeIndustrial Designer: WellProject Manager: ifIndustrial Designer: you still do.Project Manager: we still have the how to hold on to itIndustrial Designer: You s you still {disfmarker} W yeah. You put it on t on the couch table.Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's gonna roll away.Industrial Designer: While you're watching,Marketing: {vocalsound} Rolls awayIndustrial Designer: it's gonna roll off. SoMarketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: that's not an issue really.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So I guess after the meeting {vocalsound} we'll have some questionnaires. And uh and some summaries for for what's going on. Um then we'll take lunch. Then we can come back and uh work on our individual work. Um {disfmarker} I'll do the minutes. Uh let's see. It looks like you're already on your way for uh working with the components. Um chips, the what chips we needIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: and what uh you know how to power it and whatnot. User interface concept, we want it to be something simple.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} Minimal number of buttons. I guess our, I guess our main um main thing that we should silly.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe if you're sitting on your couch with a bunch of people then you know, you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: And wou I don't know if would would you want to keep saying stuff if you were watching stuff. If you were watching something would you sort of be wanting {disfmarker}Project Manager: Volume up. Volume down. Change the channel, you know channel up, channel downUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I I don't know.Marketing: Another thing about these figures is ninety one percent of the youngest age groups said they'd do it, but probably a lot of them that's actually their parents money. Like I don't know if they would actually go out and purchase this themselves, a fifteen year old you know.User Interface: I think {disfmarker} As well it'd be j the gimmick factor for the younger people.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But practically I don't think it's {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's a, it's a gimmick factor that they like at first, and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah. It'll wear off.Marketing: Gets old yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Um {disfmarker} Let's see here.User Interface: Do you wanna put your cord back inProject Manager: Yeah I guess so.Industrial Designer: Oh right. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Trade you.Industrial Designer: {gap} go. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now I was sent a couple of things to modify our uh new requirements. Um the remote's only gonna be for the television, which is good because we already decided {disfmarker} y your your research showed that uh not only is a universal remote more complicated, it's more cost, more costly. And your re uh research showed that you know most of the people don't even use it. I think uh you said fifty percent of the people only use half the or ten percent of the buttons.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: So

What detailed suggestions did Industrial Designer put forward when discussing the specific shape design of remote control

Industrial Designer proposed to design mouse-like click function and the scrolling function which is the simplest in technology. In addition, some small protuberances can be designed under the remote control, which is more convenient for users from the perspective of ergonomics, and the battery can be installed from the engineering point of view. He also proposed a two in one remote control. The small remote control has simple basic functions and is easy to carry. The large remote control is not easy to lose when it is fixed on furniture such as a sofa or table.

components that obviously need to go in there. We'll start with an energy source. Right. Um which is usually a battery right {vocalsound} Since it's not feasible to add a cable to that. This energy source of course is connected to the the user interface itself {vocalsound}. Uh which can be buttons, whatever, which in fact controls a chip. Right This is the user interface and there we have the chip. Um the way this goes normally is that this chip then controls an infrared lamp. That sends out the signal. Of course the signal differs accordingly. Um depending on what the chip tells the infrared lan lamp. And {disfmarker} Of course that's controlled, the chip itself is controlled by the user interface. The way you normally normally do it is that you add a little device such as a lamp to the whole thing as well, so that you know that it's working basically. You press something, you get a response. Which is also comparatively um important on one of those devices. Now this, what we're talking about here, or what I think should be discussed are these two components mostly. The the uh energy source for one thing can be altered. What we probably cannot alter is of course the infrared, the sending device basically, the infrared lamp. We cannot change the chip which controls the infrared lamp. Right These two are components that we have to use, and these are dictated by the whole function of the whole thing. Um the lamp can be put onto the desi the device. It c it doesn't have to be there. This can be discussed as well. {vocalsound} The user interface. That's something we can also discuss. Um as we've heard uh speech recognition is the hype obviously in the else, they kept track of the frequency per hour in using certain buttons. And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all. Of course channel selection is used the most frequently. And then teletext was the next. Volume and then power. And then audio settings and screen settings and channel settings were practically never used. So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button. Um the biggest user frustrations, as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere, and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be a good idea. They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote. And twenty six percent said that the controls are bad for R_S_I_. {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury.Marketing: What is itUser Interface: Just repetitive strain injury. I think. That's what I guess.Marketing: Okay. Okay. And so bas okay. Um as far as speech recognition goes, um the younger group looks like they're all for it. From the fifteen to twenty five age group over ninety percent said they would pay more. And it kind of just went down incrementally. The groups at {disfmarker} the older they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay, so maybe we could discuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing in this. At least if we're targeting the younger groups. And so in conclusion. Some things that I drew from this are that I think we were correct. We definitely need to focus on a new modern appearance, since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote through nine. For typing in your channels. Uh you've got volume, up and down. Channel up and down.Marketing: Power.Project Manager: Power. Usually at the top. Um a mute.Industrial Designer: That's the classical design.Project Manager: That's that's pretty much all you need I think. Um {disfmarker} A menu button, maybe.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So you know. If you, if we want the remote to do other things like um {disfmarker} or I guess the T_V_ to be able to change the tint and the colour and you know all those kind of things that are built into T_V_s, we just have that under one standard menu button where you go in, press the menu button, scroll up and down to select it.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talking of which maybe a scrolling function is not not too bad.Project Manager:'Kay so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Talk about maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} f look at that from the side, there maybe.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which is technically the easiest option. Would probably be like a scrolling, little scrolling wheel like this.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.Project Manager: Like a wheel on your mouse.Industrial Designer: Yeah, sort of like that.Project Manager: Sort of.Industrial Designer: You can even if we're coming from mice, we can even add a click function, where you, in order to verify the information you just press it down. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}'S a good idea.Industrial Designer: Also when it comes to the ergonomics of the whole thing, if you wanna make it square for the looks of it, then maybe to make it more comfortable to hold the whole thing, you add a little bulge down here. Just which maybe from an engineering point this could be holding the the batteries and we were going with our our ball.User Interface: Yeah it would be quite good.Project Manager: Or or with {disfmarker} you know I guess with any form that that would be good.User Interface: The ball could sit on a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: You know that could be the charger. For you knowUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: we could use rechargeable batteries in the remote. And that would be {disfmarker} or solar. Or you know {disfmarker} However, however you wanted to go about it, the holder could also be the charging unit. Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: With the locator button. Um and if it were the ball you'd no longer have to have a flat space on it.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um likeIndustrial Designer: WellProject Manager: ifIndustrial Designer: you still do.Project Manager: we still have the how to hold on to itIndustrial Designer: You s you still {disfmarker} W yeah. You put it on t on the couch table.Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's gonna roll away.Industrial Designer: While you're watching,Marketing: {vocalsound} Rolls awayIndustrial Designer: it's gonna roll off. SoMarketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: that's not an issue really.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So I guess after the meeting {vocalsound} we'll have some questionnaires. And uh and some summaries for for what's going on. Um then we'll take lunch. Then we can come back and uh work on our individual work. Um {disfmarker} I'll do the minutes. Uh let's see. It looks like you're already on your way for uh working with the components. Um chips, the what chips we needIndustrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: and what uh you know how to power it and whatnot. User interface concept, we want it to be something simple.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} Minimal number of buttons. I guess our, I guess our main um main thing that we should silly.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe if you're sitting on your couch with a bunch of people then you know, you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: And wou I don't know if would would you want to keep saying stuff if you were watching stuff. If you were watching something would you sort of be wanting {disfmarker}Project Manager: Volume up. Volume down. Change the channel, you know channel up, channel downUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I I don't know.Marketing: Another thing about these figures is ninety one percent of the youngest age groups said they'd do it, but probably a lot of them that's actually their parents money. Like I don't know if they would actually go out and purchase this themselves, a fifteen year old you know.User Interface: I think {disfmarker} As well it'd be j the gimmick factor for the younger people.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But practically I don't think it's {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's a, it's a gimmick factor that they like at first, and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah. It'll wear off.Marketing: Gets old yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Um {disfmarker} Let's see here.User Interface: Do you wanna put your cord back inProject Manager: Yeah I guess so.Industrial Designer: Oh right. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Trade you.Industrial Designer: {gap} go. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now I was sent a couple of things to modify our uh new requirements. Um the remote's only gonna be for the television, which is good because we already decided {disfmarker} y your your research showed that uh not only is a universal remote more complicated, it's more cost, more costly. And your re uh research showed that you know most of the people don't even use it. I think uh you said fifty percent of the people only use half the or ten percent of the buttons.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: So

Summarize the whole meeting.

First, the project manager briefly reviewed the last meeting. According to market research, Marketing suggested adopting modern appearance, reducing buttons, increasing positioning and voice recognition functions. From the perspective of technical function design, User Interface emphasized that the user should be the centre, reduce the buttons, focus on modifying the shape of the remote control, and do not waste the budget to design the universal remote controller. Industrial Designer had come up with the option of cheap and sustainable batteries, infrared lights and voice recognition technology. Industrial Designer also offered mouse-like scrolling and clicking functions, as well as specific remote control shapes.

Interface: {vocalsound} I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there, this is quite a low uh price if if we're {disfmarker} maybe I can get to this in my presentation though,Project Manager: Yeah yeah. Sure sure.User Interface: but um yeah.Project Manager: So maybe we can jump to your presentations, right now.User Interface: Yep. Okay.Project Manager: Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that {disfmarker} this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh recoUser Interface: Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think {disfmarker} if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry, what is your {gap}User Interface: Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder, so.Marketing: Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate, so {disfmarker} yeah yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh you press a press a button to talk, and the the T_V_ the T_V_ {vocalsound} sound turns off. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah uh channel fifty.Industrial Designer: No it could be command control kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say {disfmarker} you should say like does that, remote control being on or be on kind of thing, and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So there should be something command controlled, you start to to target well {disfmarker} of such technologies is enoughIndustrial Designer: Uh yes, if it is limited vocabulary usually it's enough.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah we we can uh target, means we can target ninety five percent accuracy or somewhere ninety seven percProject Manager: Well wh uh I imagine also that the microphone will be an ambiance um a um an ambience microphonesUser Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: because you are not going to speak into into th into the remote control.Industrial Designer: That's right. No it it could be little d yeah it could be {disfmarker}Project Manager: So it could be s a few centimetres.User Interface: {vocalsound} Well one one other thing that that speech recognition could really blow out the price for is uh when you want to sell into other markets, though,Industrial Designer: That's right. That's right.User Interface: because, I'm not sure exactly where we're gonna sell this, but I presume it's not gonna just be English speaking countries.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: So then you have to s you know, you have to train models for {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm mm-hmm. Uh it's more like, means there are different speech technologies which are existing so D_T_W_ could be kind of which is the easiest. So you have to store some templates on the on the on the chip itself, and {vocalsound} it's just dynamic time warping where you try to find out what it is, instead of having a model which has to be trained and being a micro-controller.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay we shou we should discuss this la later after after after this this uh slide.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.Project Manager: This is a this is a this is a a very important uh issue in discussion.Industrial Designer: So we can That's right. Yep.Project Manager: Okay, actually have to pick up anymore, that would be a a useful feature of the speech recogntion.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: If you can leave it sitting on the table and you don't actually have to find it, then that could be {gap}.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay gentlemens, we have to take some deci decisions right now.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Um so if I if I kind of summarise everything we've de we we said. We are targeting T_V_. {vocalsound} We need {vocalsound} we need to have um um remote control which is fanc fancy, which is uh which is easy to to hand not too small, not too big. Um we have {disfmarker}Marketing: With a good shape for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: or good shape, yes. We should bring new technologies for young peoples, and uh as we have uh also requirements to to use uh to to push thr toward the internet. Maybe this is something we can stick to it. And um {vocalsound} also, a very interesting things I I I've seen on on on the {disfmarker} one of the comp o our competitor is this wheel that we can use to navigate. So so my feeling is that re regarding costs budget we have an an an target price, it's not possible to go s to go to L_C_D_ {vocalsound} and also to go to automatic speech recognition technologies. Uh first m m why not to go to L_C_D_. Because um in fact as we are targeting uh T_V_ {disfmarker} in fact we can use T_V_ screen as a screen to feedback {disfmarker} to to give some feedback informations about what we could have.User Interface: Well it depends though {disfmarker} well it depends. If we we don't {disfmarker} unless we have some input Interface: I think the type of people that are gonna want to buy a very stylish rem r remote control with lots of new technologies are the kinda people that are gonna have you know a wireless internet connection maybe, or a {disfmarker} you know.Marketing: But then we should move to another target b because at twenty five Dollars,Industrial Designer: Means th yeah twenty five Euros is {disfmarker} yeah, that's right.User Interface: Well this is what we need to find out.Marketing: it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Can we can we increase the the price point of this remote control'Cause otherwise we need {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay this is {gap} {disfmarker} this is an open question for you. Yeah. This is uh up to you to tell us. But I'm definitely not keen on to to {disfmarker}Marketing: To move to another targetProject Manager: no no no, I'm no I'm definit definitely not keen on going to speech recognition technologies. I'm not confident enough. I'm not sure that that we'll have a product really that work. I uh that work {disfmarker}User Interface: It's kind of hard to guarantee that you're gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's real yeah. How to guarantee such performances is really hard.User Interface: {gap}Marketing: {gap} the expert uh said ninety five percent {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well this is still {disfmarker} is is very bad.User Interface: Ninety five percent is not good enough though. {gap}Project Manager: So, this is the end of this discussion. Next meeting uh here are the task you have to work on. Um {vocalsound} so you have to work on the component uh concept.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Uh you have to work on user interface, and you have to go through a trend watching. Okay. So the question is still open about the L_C_D_ thing. Um uh we {disfmarker} I hope that next meeting we will uh we'll take some um decision that direction. Thanks. Bye.User Interface: Yep. Designer: Yeah.User Interface: like uh s people teach sign language to kids f well, by speaking and doing {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah but uh as soon as you try to put the microchip kind of thing or something the price will go up.Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So these are the slight problems.Project Manager: So your your opinion is that we should go for special condition technologiesIndustrial Designer: Because {disfmarker} yeah the reason is that if we go into the market means {disfmarker} though I don't have much idea, but as he {disfmarker} the uh Marketing Expert presentation was {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm sure if you can sell a a speech recognition remote control for twenty five Euros everyo {vocalsound} everyone will s will buy it.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Actually I'm not so sureIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} So if we go with just the {disfmarker}User Interface: because I'm the {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm sure.User Interface: you know if I was using a remote control to, say, turn the volume up because I can't hear it very well, I don't really want to you know drown out what people are saying by talking you know when I'm when I'm {disfmarker} instead of pressing up on on a remote control. You know if there's some there's some dialogue all of a sudden that I can't hear, I'm trying to actually find out what's being said,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: so maybe speech recognition gets in the way more than it helps.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah but you know the the average frequency of pushing buttons, it's about {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well it depends if it's a remote control thMarketing: it's about eighty eighty eighty pushes per hour, or something like that.User Interface: Maybe if the remote control is something that y you don't

Summarize the group discussion about the functional design.

The group agreed that the remote should be fancy and easy to be hand-held. It should not be too small or too big in good shape. They agreed to bring new technologies and push toward the internet for young peoples. So they would use the wheel to navigate. Also regarding the budget, they had a new target price but it would be impossible to have LCD and automatic speech recognition technologies implementation.

Interface: {vocalsound} I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there, this is quite a low uh price if if we're {disfmarker} maybe I can get to this in my presentation though,Project Manager: Yeah yeah. Sure sure.User Interface: but um yeah.Project Manager: So maybe we can jump to your presentations, right now.User Interface: Yep. Okay.Project Manager: Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that {disfmarker} this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh recoUser Interface: Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think {disfmarker} if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry, what is your {gap}User Interface: Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder, so.Marketing: Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate, so {disfmarker} yeah yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh you press a press a button to talk, and the the T_V_ the T_V_ {vocalsound} sound turns off. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah uh channel fifty.Industrial Designer: No it could be command control kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say {disfmarker} you should say like does that, remote control being on or be on kind of thing, and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So there should be something command controlled, you start difficult to {disfmarker} very different build {disfmarker} very different to the traditional {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It does sampling out of the {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well I guess that depends on how you market it. If you {vocalsound} if you have the right advertisement showing how how how easy it is and how you can, you know, navigate to a program without the numbers, then people might say that looks pretty easy.Marketing: If yProject Manager: Okay, can you continue, please MiUser Interface: So, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}User Interface: yep. Um okay, so, I think um one of the really kind of useful things you can do with with internet connectivity would be to have this {disfmarker} a programme driven interface rather than the channel number. So if we can have a higher priced uh remote control I think that would really be worth uh {disfmarker} something that would be worth implementing. Um mm there's the L_C_D_ screen, um which maybe maybe is too expensive, um but I think also at the scroll wheel, I haven't mentioned it here, the scroll wheel could be used without an L_C_D_ screen, just for changing channel numbers easily. I think even that,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean, that would be a fairly cheap thing, compared to an L_C_D_ screen, to implement,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing, you say we need to we need to keep it just television, but I think one {disfmarker} maybe one option, since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device, is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of {disfmarker} you can have with technology, and maybe we wanna make it something that's {vocalsound} extensible to Interface: I think the type of people that are gonna want to buy a very stylish rem r remote control with lots of new technologies are the kinda people that are gonna have you know a wireless internet connection maybe, or a {disfmarker} you know.Marketing: But then we should move to another target b because at twenty five Dollars,Industrial Designer: Means th yeah twenty five Euros is {disfmarker} yeah, that's right.User Interface: Well this is what we need to find out.Marketing: it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Can we can we increase the the price point of this remote control'Cause otherwise we need {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay this is {gap} {disfmarker} this is an open question for you. Yeah. This is uh up to you to tell us. But I'm definitely not keen on to to {disfmarker}Marketing: To move to another targetProject Manager: no no no, I'm no I'm definit definitely not keen on going to speech recognition technologies. I'm not confident enough. I'm not sure that that we'll have a product really that work. I uh that work {disfmarker}User Interface: It's kind of hard to guarantee that you're gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's real yeah. How to guarantee such performances is really hard.User Interface: {gap}Marketing: {gap} the expert uh said ninety five percent {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well this is still {disfmarker} is is very bad.User Interface: Ninety five percent is not good enough though. {gap}Project Manager: So, this is the end of this discussion. Next meeting uh here are the task you have to work on. Um {vocalsound} so you have to work on the component uh concept.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Uh you have to work on user interface, and you have to go through a trend watching. Okay. So the question is still open about the L_C_D_ thing. Um uh we {disfmarker} I hope that next meeting we will uh we'll take some um decision that direction. Thanks. Bye.User Interface: Yep. actually have to pick up anymore, that would be a a useful feature of the speech recogntion.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: If you can leave it sitting on the table and you don't actually have to find it, then that could be {gap}.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay gentlemens, we have to take some deci decisions right now.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Um so if I if I kind of summarise everything we've de we we said. We are targeting T_V_. {vocalsound} We need {vocalsound} we need to have um um remote control which is fanc fancy, which is uh which is easy to to hand not too small, not too big. Um we have {disfmarker}Marketing: With a good shape for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: or good shape, yes. We should bring new technologies for young peoples, and uh as we have uh also requirements to to use uh to to push thr toward the internet. Maybe this is something we can stick to it. And um {vocalsound} also, a very interesting things I I I've seen on on on the {disfmarker} one of the comp o our competitor is this wheel that we can use to navigate. So so my feeling is that re regarding costs budget we have an an an target price, it's not possible to go s to go to L_C_D_ {vocalsound} and also to go to automatic speech recognition technologies. Uh first m m why not to go to L_C_D_. Because um in fact as we are targeting uh T_V_ {disfmarker} in fact we can use T_V_ screen as a screen to feedback {disfmarker} to to give some feedback informations about what we could have.User Interface: Well it depends though {disfmarker} well it depends. If we we don't {disfmarker} unless we have some input to to target well {disfmarker} of such technologies is enoughIndustrial Designer: Uh yes, if it is limited vocabulary usually it's enough.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah we we can uh target, means we can target ninety five percent accuracy or somewhere ninety seven percProject Manager: Well wh uh I imagine also that the microphone will be an ambiance um a um an ambience microphonesUser Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: because you are not going to speak into into th into the remote control.Industrial Designer: That's right. No it it could be little d yeah it could be {disfmarker}Project Manager: So it could be s a few centimetres.User Interface: {vocalsound} Well one one other thing that that speech recognition could really blow out the price for is uh when you want to sell into other markets, though,Industrial Designer: That's right. That's right.User Interface: because, I'm not sure exactly where we're gonna sell this, but I presume it's not gonna just be English speaking countries.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: So then you have to s you know, you have to train models for {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm mm-hmm. Uh it's more like, means there are different speech technologies which are existing so D_T_W_ could be kind of which is the easiest. So you have to store some templates on the on the on the chip itself, and {vocalsound} it's just dynamic time warping where you try to find out what it is, instead of having a model which has to be trained and being a micro-controller.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay we shou we should discuss this la later after after after this this uh slide.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.Project Manager: This is a this is a this is a a very important uh issue in discussion.Industrial Designer: So we can That's right. Yep.Project Manager: Okay,

What did group mates think of a universal design suggested by Industrial Designer

Industrial Designer thought a universal shape design should be good for both the hands. User Interface suggested that they could still design to extend past the hand and have something like finger grips on the remote compared to the traditional ones. Marketing supplemented that it should not be symmetrical. And Project Manager agreed on it.

actually have to pick up anymore, that would be a a useful feature of the speech recogntion.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: If you can leave it sitting on the table and you don't actually have to find it, then that could be {gap}.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay gentlemens, we have to take some deci decisions right now.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Um so if I if I kind of summarise everything we've de we we said. We are targeting T_V_. {vocalsound} We need {vocalsound} we need to have um um remote control which is fanc fancy, which is uh which is easy to to hand not too small, not too big. Um we have {disfmarker}Marketing: With a good shape for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: or good shape, yes. We should bring new technologies for young peoples, and uh as we have uh also requirements to to use uh to to push thr toward the internet. Maybe this is something we can stick to it. And um {vocalsound} also, a very interesting things I I I've seen on on on the {disfmarker} one of the comp o our competitor is this wheel that we can use to navigate. So so my feeling is that re regarding costs budget we have an an an target price, it's not possible to go s to go to L_C_D_ {vocalsound} and also to go to automatic speech recognition technologies. Uh first m m why not to go to L_C_D_. Because um in fact as we are targeting uh T_V_ {disfmarker} in fact we can use T_V_ screen as a screen to feedback {disfmarker} to to give some feedback informations about what we could have.User Interface: Well it depends though {disfmarker} well it depends. If we we don't {disfmarker} unless we have some input difficult to {disfmarker} very different build {disfmarker} very different to the traditional {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It does sampling out of the {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well I guess that depends on how you market it. If you {vocalsound} if you have the right advertisement showing how how how easy it is and how you can, you know, navigate to a program without the numbers, then people might say that looks pretty easy.Marketing: If yProject Manager: Okay, can you continue, please MiUser Interface: So, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}User Interface: yep. Um okay, so, I think um one of the really kind of useful things you can do with with internet connectivity would be to have this {disfmarker} a programme driven interface rather than the channel number. So if we can have a higher priced uh remote control I think that would really be worth uh {disfmarker} something that would be worth implementing. Um mm there's the L_C_D_ screen, um which maybe maybe is too expensive, um but I think also at the scroll wheel, I haven't mentioned it here, the scroll wheel could be used without an L_C_D_ screen, just for changing channel numbers easily. I think even that,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean, that would be a fairly cheap thing, compared to an L_C_D_ screen, to implement,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing, you say we need to we need to keep it just television, but I think one {disfmarker} maybe one option, since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device, is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of {disfmarker} you can have with technology, and maybe we wanna make it something that's {vocalsound} extensible to Interface: {vocalsound} I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there, this is quite a low uh price if if we're {disfmarker} maybe I can get to this in my presentation though,Project Manager: Yeah yeah. Sure sure.User Interface: but um yeah.Project Manager: So maybe we can jump to your presentations, right now.User Interface: Yep. Okay.Project Manager: Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that {disfmarker} this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh recoUser Interface: Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think {disfmarker} if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry, what is your {gap}User Interface: Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder, so.Marketing: Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate, so {disfmarker} yeah yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh you press a press a button to talk, and the the T_V_ the T_V_ {vocalsound} sound turns off. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah uh channel fifty.Industrial Designer: No it could be command control kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say {disfmarker} you should say like does that, remote control being on or be on kind of thing, and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So there should be something command controlled, you start some video input to the T_V_ or we have control over the T_V_ then we can't actually display that. Like if we if we produce the T_V_s then then yeah we can put you know menus up up there, but otherwise we need to actually have some kind of {disfmarker} something sitting in between the video signal and the and the T_V_ to superimpose those those menus. So that's an extraProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah that's right. Don don't you haUser Interface: cost.Project Manager: don't we have contacts with uh people on T_V_ or or {gap} well systems that exist that we can useUser Interface: Well this is this is another que we still haven't really defined the remote. Are we still {disfmarker} you say we're focusing on T_V_, but is it still a kind of like a universal remote in that it's a replacement remote control, or is this something for our own line of of televisionsProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'Cause that really makes a big difference.'Cause {vocalsound} even if we have contacts we can't really produce a remote control that can bring up menus on other other companies'T_V_s. It's just there are too many T_V_s out there. It's it's not really gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. That's good point. What's what cou what could be the cost of uh {disfmarker} well, could we fit the the targets uh in terms of cost uh if we go s to L_C_D_ on the remote controlUser Interface: For twenty five Euro {vocalsound} I think it's impossible.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It's not possible. It's impossible.User Interface: But but I dunno,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: I think um it would be good to know if there is any leverage in that {disfmarker} any leeway in that um that twenty five Euro because for twenty five Euro I think using multiple uh devices I suppose because you can have multiple kind of functions {disfmarker} d different functions on the screen at different times. But um the thing that I find most interesting about this remote control, and it's kind of difficult to uh to see in the slide, but it has a scroll wheel on it, which is kind of like uh a mouse scroll wheel, which I think is {disfmarker} it's a really kind of important design aspect um is {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker}'Cause the thing is what a {vocalsound} what we {disfmarker} the presen this presentation we had is what we want the remote control to actually do. And obviously the the simplest thing that a remote control does is it just change the change the channel.Industrial Designer: Change the channels.User Interface: Now umIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: uh the {disfmarker} I think that a scroll wheel is actually pretty a pretty handy way of of changing the channel.'Cause I know when I um when I use the remote to change the channel I very rarely use the numbers on the on the pad. I usually use the up and downIndustrial Designer: Mmm-hmm mm-hmm. Yeah yeah.User Interface: because most channels are you know two digit numbers and you have to press you know a special button to enter a two-digit number, and then two numbers, so that's just uh {disfmarker} it's annoying. So I think a scroll wheel is is quite handy. Now um the the scroll wheel is is much more useful if you have an L_C_D_ screen, and this brings us to the the point you were mentioning before about the internet uh capability.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: One possibility, if we {disfmarker} now we need to still talk about the price point because obviously a lot of

What did Project Manager think of the incorporation of an LCD or a speech recognition system in the remote control

Marketing mentioned that most of the young people to thirty years old were interested in this kind of technology. However, Project Manager updated him and group mates that head offices would like to restrict the remote control to TV only because of time limitations. Therefore, Project Manager suggested the group focusing more on the internet aspects because the teletext was outdated and it should be clear that the corporate image should be clearly identified in the product.

Interface: {vocalsound} I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there, this is quite a low uh price if if we're {disfmarker} maybe I can get to this in my presentation though,Project Manager: Yeah yeah. Sure sure.User Interface: but um yeah.Project Manager: So maybe we can jump to your presentations, right now.User Interface: Yep. Okay.Project Manager: Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that {disfmarker} this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh recoUser Interface: Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think {disfmarker} if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry, what is your {gap}User Interface: Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder, so.Marketing: Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate, so {disfmarker} yeah yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh you press a press a button to talk, and the the T_V_ the T_V_ {vocalsound} sound turns off. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah uh channel fifty.Industrial Designer: No it could be command control kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say {disfmarker} you should say like does that, remote control being on or be on kind of thing, and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So there should be something command controlled, you start difficult to {disfmarker} very different build {disfmarker} very different to the traditional {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It does sampling out of the {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well I guess that depends on how you market it. If you {vocalsound} if you have the right advertisement showing how how how easy it is and how you can, you know, navigate to a program without the numbers, then people might say that looks pretty easy.Marketing: If yProject Manager: Okay, can you continue, please MiUser Interface: So, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}User Interface: yep. Um okay, so, I think um one of the really kind of useful things you can do with with internet connectivity would be to have this {disfmarker} a programme driven interface rather than the channel number. So if we can have a higher priced uh remote control I think that would really be worth uh {disfmarker} something that would be worth implementing. Um mm there's the L_C_D_ screen, um which maybe maybe is too expensive, um but I think also at the scroll wheel, I haven't mentioned it here, the scroll wheel could be used without an L_C_D_ screen, just for changing channel numbers easily. I think even that,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean, that would be a fairly cheap thing, compared to an L_C_D_ screen, to implement,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing, you say we need to we need to keep it just television, but I think one {disfmarker} maybe one option, since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device, is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of {disfmarker} you can have with technology, and maybe we wanna make it something that's {vocalsound} extensible to actually have to pick up anymore, that would be a a useful feature of the speech recogntion.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: If you can leave it sitting on the table and you don't actually have to find it, then that could be {gap}.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay gentlemens, we have to take some deci decisions right now.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Um so if I if I kind of summarise everything we've de we we said. We are targeting T_V_. {vocalsound} We need {vocalsound} we need to have um um remote control which is fanc fancy, which is uh which is easy to to hand not too small, not too big. Um we have {disfmarker}Marketing: With a good shape for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: or good shape, yes. We should bring new technologies for young peoples, and uh as we have uh also requirements to to use uh to to push thr toward the internet. Maybe this is something we can stick to it. And um {vocalsound} also, a very interesting things I I I've seen on on on the {disfmarker} one of the comp o our competitor is this wheel that we can use to navigate. So so my feeling is that re regarding costs budget we have an an an target price, it's not possible to go s to go to L_C_D_ {vocalsound} and also to go to automatic speech recognition technologies. Uh first m m why not to go to L_C_D_. Because um in fact as we are targeting uh T_V_ {disfmarker} in fact we can use T_V_ screen as a screen to feedback {disfmarker} to to give some feedback informations about what we could have.User Interface: Well it depends though {disfmarker} well it depends. If we we don't {disfmarker} unless we have some input some video input to the T_V_ or we have control over the T_V_ then we can't actually display that. Like if we if we produce the T_V_s then then yeah we can put you know menus up up there, but otherwise we need to actually have some kind of {disfmarker} something sitting in between the video signal and the and the T_V_ to superimpose those those menus. So that's an extraProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah that's right. Don don't you haUser Interface: cost.Project Manager: don't we have contacts with uh people on T_V_ or or {gap} well systems that exist that we can useUser Interface: Well this is this is another que we still haven't really defined the remote. Are we still {disfmarker} you say we're focusing on T_V_, but is it still a kind of like a universal remote in that it's a replacement remote control, or is this something for our own line of of televisionsProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'Cause that really makes a big difference.'Cause {vocalsound} even if we have contacts we can't really produce a remote control that can bring up menus on other other companies'T_V_s. It's just there are too many T_V_s out there. It's it's not really gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. That's good point. What's what cou what could be the cost of uh {disfmarker} well, could we fit the the targets uh in terms of cost uh if we go s to L_C_D_ on the remote controlUser Interface: For twenty five Euro {vocalsound} I think it's impossible.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It's not possible. It's impossible.User Interface: But but I dunno,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: I think um it would be good to know if there is any leverage in that {disfmarker} any leeway in that um that twenty five Euro because for twenty five Euro I think all we can really do is provide a very basic remote control, and that seems to be kind of against the philosophy of our company which is you know putting the fashion into electronics. So I would I would like to know if there's any chance of of increasing the uhMarketing: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: of increasing the unit price.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So you mean yo you mean we we should target something maybe which is {disfmarker} which would be more expensive but re really fancy in terms to um {disfmarker} in terms to had {disfmarker} to have really an added valueMarketing: What would be {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah. Yeah. YeahProject Manager: Okay,User Interface: because {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: so regarding the automatic speech recognition, I think this is {disfmarker}Marketing: Wha but what would be {disfmarker} one question, what would be the goal of putting an L_C_D_ in a remote controlUser Interface: Well thMarketing: What what kind of informationUser Interface:'Cause you can have things like the programme name instead of the channel numbers, like an interactive programme guide.Marketing: Yeah but mo most of the T_V_s nowadays show the show theProject Manager: They have tele teletext. Well, because they have teletext on it.Marketing: the nProject Manager: Th th you have a teletext sin signal that you can that you can uh that you can get thr through the channel.Marketing: Yeah but yeah most of the T_V_s have teletext nowadays.Project Manager: They have t most of them have teletext, but we want to get rid {disfmarker} well one of our requirements is to uh to move to teletext to uh to the use of internet.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So to to uhUser Interface: You can get a lot more information on it.Project Manager: to browse more easily the teletext. For instance through uh through your remote

What's User Interface's opinions toward Marketing when discussing the transition to new remote control

When User Interface mentioned about they need to keep the buttons down to a minimum, Marketing thought the transition to this new remote control shouldn't be very abrupt because if people would think it's very difficult to learn a remote control without numbers. User Interface responded that it would depend on how they advertise it to navigate to a program without the numbers.

Interface: {vocalsound} I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there, this is quite a low uh price if if we're {disfmarker} maybe I can get to this in my presentation though,Project Manager: Yeah yeah. Sure sure.User Interface: but um yeah.Project Manager: So maybe we can jump to your presentations, right now.User Interface: Yep. Okay.Project Manager: Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that {disfmarker} this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh recoUser Interface: Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think {disfmarker} if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry, what is your {gap}User Interface: Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder, so.Marketing: Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate, so {disfmarker} yeah yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh you press a press a button to talk, and the the T_V_ the T_V_ {vocalsound} sound turns off. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah uh channel fifty.Industrial Designer: No it could be command control kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say {disfmarker} you should say like does that, remote control being on or be on kind of thing, and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So there should be something command controlled, you start difficult to {disfmarker} very different build {disfmarker} very different to the traditional {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It does sampling out of the {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well I guess that depends on how you market it. If you {vocalsound} if you have the right advertisement showing how how how easy it is and how you can, you know, navigate to a program without the numbers, then people might say that looks pretty easy.Marketing: If yProject Manager: Okay, can you continue, please MiUser Interface: So, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}User Interface: yep. Um okay, so, I think um one of the really kind of useful things you can do with with internet connectivity would be to have this {disfmarker} a programme driven interface rather than the channel number. So if we can have a higher priced uh remote control I think that would really be worth uh {disfmarker} something that would be worth implementing. Um mm there's the L_C_D_ screen, um which maybe maybe is too expensive, um but I think also at the scroll wheel, I haven't mentioned it here, the scroll wheel could be used without an L_C_D_ screen, just for changing channel numbers easily. I think even that,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean, that would be a fairly cheap thing, compared to an L_C_D_ screen, to implement,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing, you say we need to we need to keep it just television, but I think one {disfmarker} maybe one option, since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device, is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of {disfmarker} you can have with technology, and maybe we wanna make it something that's {vocalsound} extensible to Interface: I think the type of people that are gonna want to buy a very stylish rem r remote control with lots of new technologies are the kinda people that are gonna have you know a wireless internet connection maybe, or a {disfmarker} you know.Marketing: But then we should move to another target b because at twenty five Dollars,Industrial Designer: Means th yeah twenty five Euros is {disfmarker} yeah, that's right.User Interface: Well this is what we need to find out.Marketing: it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Can we can we increase the the price point of this remote control'Cause otherwise we need {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay this is {gap} {disfmarker} this is an open question for you. Yeah. This is uh up to you to tell us. But I'm definitely not keen on to to {disfmarker}Marketing: To move to another targetProject Manager: no no no, I'm no I'm definit definitely not keen on going to speech recognition technologies. I'm not confident enough. I'm not sure that that we'll have a product really that work. I uh that work {disfmarker}User Interface: It's kind of hard to guarantee that you're gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's real yeah. How to guarantee such performances is really hard.User Interface: {gap}Marketing: {gap} the expert uh said ninety five percent {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well this is still {disfmarker} is is very bad.User Interface: Ninety five percent is not good enough though. {gap}Project Manager: So, this is the end of this discussion. Next meeting uh here are the task you have to work on. Um {vocalsound} so you have to work on the component uh concept.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Uh you have to work on user interface, and you have to go through a trend watching. Okay. So the question is still open about the L_C_D_ thing. Um uh we {disfmarker} I hope that next meeting we will uh we'll take some um decision that direction. Thanks. Bye.User Interface: Yep. actually have to pick up anymore, that would be a a useful feature of the speech recogntion.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: If you can leave it sitting on the table and you don't actually have to find it, then that could be {gap}.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay gentlemens, we have to take some deci decisions right now.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Um so if I if I kind of summarise everything we've de we we said. We are targeting T_V_. {vocalsound} We need {vocalsound} we need to have um um remote control which is fanc fancy, which is uh which is easy to to hand not too small, not too big. Um we have {disfmarker}Marketing: With a good shape for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: or good shape, yes. We should bring new technologies for young peoples, and uh as we have uh also requirements to to use uh to to push thr toward the internet. Maybe this is something we can stick to it. And um {vocalsound} also, a very interesting things I I I've seen on on on the {disfmarker} one of the comp o our competitor is this wheel that we can use to navigate. So so my feeling is that re regarding costs budget we have an an an target price, it's not possible to go s to go to L_C_D_ {vocalsound} and also to go to automatic speech recognition technologies. Uh first m m why not to go to L_C_D_. Because um in fact as we are targeting uh T_V_ {disfmarker} in fact we can use T_V_ screen as a screen to feedback {disfmarker} to to give some feedback informations about what we could have.User Interface: Well it depends though {disfmarker} well it depends. If we we don't {disfmarker} unless we have some input of the buttons is important, but also the number of buttons. So if you have too many buttons it it it increases the the difficulty of finding the one you want.Industrial Designer: But there is one problem {gap} then the user has to understand each of that functionality.User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah well we wIndustrial Designer: Because the same button is doing too many things.User Interface: Yeah well we will have a bit of a simpler uh task in that we're only doing uh a television remote control. Um I think maybe one option is to have you know a little flip-open um door that uh that you have hidden most of the time, but contains the extra buttons like, say, the number buttons for instance. UmIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound} I I would {disfmarker} if I had my perfect remote control, I'd probably just have no numbers at all on it because they're just in the way.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: They don't really do anything. Maybe you know I {disfmarker} although I do also find flip-open doors a bit of a pain because sometimes they can break off or or whatever, but maybe a door that you can you can permanantly remove or permanantly have on would be good.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Um {vocalsound} but I think definitely you need to to keep the buttons down to a minimum, but not not let that kind of interfere with the functionality of of the device. Um {disfmarker}Marketing: H I think I think that the tr the transition to this to this new remote control shouldn't be very very abrupt very hard because w if people see a remo see the {disfmarker} see a remote control without numbers mm they will think it's very difficult to learn very

What did Project Manager think of the scroll wheel suggested by User Interface

User Interface suggested that the scroll wheel could be used without an LCD screen for changing channel numbers easily. And it would be fairly cheap to implement compared to an LCD screen. Project Manager mentioned that, however, they had seen that there was a new way of interacting that used wheels to navigate. So Project Manager suggested that regarding the cost budget they had a target price, their design could stick to new technologies that bring to young people.

difficult to {disfmarker} very different build {disfmarker} very different to the traditional {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It does sampling out of the {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well I guess that depends on how you market it. If you {vocalsound} if you have the right advertisement showing how how how easy it is and how you can, you know, navigate to a program without the numbers, then people might say that looks pretty easy.Marketing: If yProject Manager: Okay, can you continue, please MiUser Interface: So, but {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}User Interface: yep. Um okay, so, I think um one of the really kind of useful things you can do with with internet connectivity would be to have this {disfmarker} a programme driven interface rather than the channel number. So if we can have a higher priced uh remote control I think that would really be worth uh {disfmarker} something that would be worth implementing. Um mm there's the L_C_D_ screen, um which maybe maybe is too expensive, um but I think also at the scroll wheel, I haven't mentioned it here, the scroll wheel could be used without an L_C_D_ screen, just for changing channel numbers easily. I think even that,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean, that would be a fairly cheap thing, compared to an L_C_D_ screen, to implement,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: um but I think that would be quite useful as well. And the other thing, you say we need to we need to keep it just television, but I think one {disfmarker} maybe one option, since this is supposed to be a kind of a fashionable device, is you know there's a certain kind of cool or wow factor that you can kind of {disfmarker} you can have with technology, and maybe we wanna make it something that's {vocalsound} extensible to Interface: {vocalsound} I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there, this is quite a low uh price if if we're {disfmarker} maybe I can get to this in my presentation though,Project Manager: Yeah yeah. Sure sure.User Interface: but um yeah.Project Manager: So maybe we can jump to your presentations, right now.User Interface: Yep. Okay.Project Manager: Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that {disfmarker} this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh recoUser Interface: Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think {disfmarker} if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry, what is your {gap}User Interface: Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder, so.Marketing: Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate, so {disfmarker} yeah yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh you press a press a button to talk, and the the T_V_ the T_V_ {vocalsound} sound turns off. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah uh channel fifty.Industrial Designer: No it could be command control kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say {disfmarker} you should say like does that, remote control being on or be on kind of thing, and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So there should be something command controlled, you start actually have to pick up anymore, that would be a a useful feature of the speech recogntion.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: If you can leave it sitting on the table and you don't actually have to find it, then that could be {gap}.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay gentlemens, we have to take some deci decisions right now.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Um so if I if I kind of summarise everything we've de we we said. We are targeting T_V_. {vocalsound} We need {vocalsound} we need to have um um remote control which is fanc fancy, which is uh which is easy to to hand not too small, not too big. Um we have {disfmarker}Marketing: With a good shape for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: or good shape, yes. We should bring new technologies for young peoples, and uh as we have uh also requirements to to use uh to to push thr toward the internet. Maybe this is something we can stick to it. And um {vocalsound} also, a very interesting things I I I've seen on on on the {disfmarker} one of the comp o our competitor is this wheel that we can use to navigate. So so my feeling is that re regarding costs budget we have an an an target price, it's not possible to go s to go to L_C_D_ {vocalsound} and also to go to automatic speech recognition technologies. Uh first m m why not to go to L_C_D_. Because um in fact as we are targeting uh T_V_ {disfmarker} in fact we can use T_V_ screen as a screen to feedback {disfmarker} to to give some feedback informations about what we could have.User Interface: Well it depends though {disfmarker} well it depends. If we we don't {disfmarker} unless we have some input some video input to the T_V_ or we have control over the T_V_ then we can't actually display that. Like if we if we produce the T_V_s then then yeah we can put you know menus up up there, but otherwise we need to actually have some kind of {disfmarker} something sitting in between the video signal and the and the T_V_ to superimpose those those menus. So that's an extraProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah that's right. Don don't you haUser Interface: cost.Project Manager: don't we have contacts with uh people on T_V_ or or {gap} well systems that exist that we can useUser Interface: Well this is this is another que we still haven't really defined the remote. Are we still {disfmarker} you say we're focusing on T_V_, but is it still a kind of like a universal remote in that it's a replacement remote control, or is this something for our own line of of televisionsProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'Cause that really makes a big difference.'Cause {vocalsound} even if we have contacts we can't really produce a remote control that can bring up menus on other other companies'T_V_s. It's just there are too many T_V_s out there. It's it's not really gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. That's good point. What's what cou what could be the cost of uh {disfmarker} well, could we fit the the targets uh in terms of cost uh if we go s to L_C_D_ on the remote controlUser Interface: For twenty five Euro {vocalsound} I think it's impossible.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It's not possible. It's impossible.User Interface: But but I dunno,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: I think um it would be good to know if there is any leverage in that {disfmarker} any leeway in that um that twenty five Euro because for twenty five Euro I think Interface: I think the type of people that are gonna want to buy a very stylish rem r remote control with lots of new technologies are the kinda people that are gonna have you know a wireless internet connection maybe, or a {disfmarker} you know.Marketing: But then we should move to another target b because at twenty five Dollars,Industrial Designer: Means th yeah twenty five Euros is {disfmarker} yeah, that's right.User Interface: Well this is what we need to find out.Marketing: it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Can we can we increase the the price point of this remote control'Cause otherwise we need {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay this is {gap} {disfmarker} this is an open question for you. Yeah. This is uh up to you to tell us. But I'm definitely not keen on to to {disfmarker}Marketing: To move to another targetProject Manager: no no no, I'm no I'm definit definitely not keen on going to speech recognition technologies. I'm not confident enough. I'm not sure that that we'll have a product really that work. I uh that work {disfmarker}User Interface: It's kind of hard to guarantee that you're gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's real yeah. How to guarantee such performances is really hard.User Interface: {gap}Marketing: {gap} the expert uh said ninety five percent {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well this is still {disfmarker} is is very bad.User Interface: Ninety five percent is not good enough though. {gap}Project Manager: So, this is the end of this discussion. Next meeting uh here are the task you have to work on. Um {vocalsound} so you have to work on the component uh concept.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Uh you have to work on user interface, and you have to go through a trend watching. Okay. So the question is still open about the L_C_D_ thing. Um uh we {disfmarker} I hope that next meeting we will uh we'll take some um decision that direction. Thanks. Bye.User Interface: Yep.

Summarize the discussion about speech recognition technology.

User Interface thought that sometimes the speech recognition interrupted people when there was a dialogue on the TV program. Unless the remote control could be made to not have to pick up any more, that would be a useful feature of speech recognition. Project Manager was not keen on it because Project Manager was not confident they would have a product that was able to work. However, Marketing thought that the speech recognition technology would be cheaper than the LCD and people must buy it with twenty-five Euros.

Interface: {vocalsound} I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there, this is quite a low uh price if if we're {disfmarker} maybe I can get to this in my presentation though,Project Manager: Yeah yeah. Sure sure.User Interface: but um yeah.Project Manager: So maybe we can jump to your presentations, right now.User Interface: Yep. Okay.Project Manager: Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that {disfmarker} this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh recoUser Interface: Yeah. I think even even if it was within budget do a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think {disfmarker} if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry, what is your {gap}User Interface: Uh participant three. You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uh harder, so.Marketing: Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate, so {disfmarker} yeah yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh you press a press a button to talk, and the the T_V_ the T_V_ {vocalsound} sound turns off. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah uh channel fifty.Industrial Designer: No it could be command control kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It requir recognises particular sequence and then it gets activated. Means you say {disfmarker} you should say like does that, remote control being on or be on kind of thing, and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So there should be something command controlled, you start actually have to pick up anymore, that would be a a useful feature of the speech recogntion.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: If you can leave it sitting on the table and you don't actually have to find it, then that could be {gap}.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay gentlemens, we have to take some deci decisions right now.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Um so if I if I kind of summarise everything we've de we we said. We are targeting T_V_. {vocalsound} We need {vocalsound} we need to have um um remote control which is fanc fancy, which is uh which is easy to to hand not too small, not too big. Um we have {disfmarker}Marketing: With a good shape for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: or good shape, yes. We should bring new technologies for young peoples, and uh as we have uh also requirements to to use uh to to push thr toward the internet. Maybe this is something we can stick to it. And um {vocalsound} also, a very interesting things I I I've seen on on on the {disfmarker} one of the comp o our competitor is this wheel that we can use to navigate. So so my feeling is that re regarding costs budget we have an an an target price, it's not possible to go s to go to L_C_D_ {vocalsound} and also to go to automatic speech recognition technologies. Uh first m m why not to go to L_C_D_. Because um in fact as we are targeting uh T_V_ {disfmarker} in fact we can use T_V_ screen as a screen to feedback {disfmarker} to to give some feedback informations about what we could have.User Interface: Well it depends though {disfmarker} well it depends. If we we don't {disfmarker} unless we have some input to to target well {disfmarker} of such technologies is enoughIndustrial Designer: Uh yes, if it is limited vocabulary usually it's enough.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah we we can uh target, means we can target ninety five percent accuracy or somewhere ninety seven percProject Manager: Well wh uh I imagine also that the microphone will be an ambiance um a um an ambience microphonesUser Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: because you are not going to speak into into th into the remote control.Industrial Designer: That's right. No it it could be little d yeah it could be {disfmarker}Project Manager: So it could be s a few centimetres.User Interface: {vocalsound} Well one one other thing that that speech recognition could really blow out the price for is uh when you want to sell into other markets, though,Industrial Designer: That's right. That's right.User Interface: because, I'm not sure exactly where we're gonna sell this, but I presume it's not gonna just be English speaking countries.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: So then you have to s you know, you have to train models for {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm mm-hmm. Uh it's more like, means there are different speech technologies which are existing so D_T_W_ could be kind of which is the easiest. So you have to store some templates on the on the on the chip itself, and {vocalsound} it's just dynamic time warping where you try to find out what it is, instead of having a model which has to be trained and being a micro-controller.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay we shou we should discuss this la later after after after this this uh slide.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.Project Manager: This is a this is a this is a a very important uh issue in discussion.Industrial Designer: So we can That's right. Yep.Project Manager: Okay, Interface: I think the type of people that are gonna want to buy a very stylish rem r remote control with lots of new technologies are the kinda people that are gonna have you know a wireless internet connection maybe, or a {disfmarker} you know.Marketing: But then we should move to another target b because at twenty five Dollars,Industrial Designer: Means th yeah twenty five Euros is {disfmarker} yeah, that's right.User Interface: Well this is what we need to find out.Marketing: it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Can we can we increase the the price point of this remote control'Cause otherwise we need {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay this is {gap} {disfmarker} this is an open question for you. Yeah. This is uh up to you to tell us. But I'm definitely not keen on to to {disfmarker}Marketing: To move to another targetProject Manager: no no no, I'm no I'm definit definitely not keen on going to speech recognition technologies. I'm not confident enough. I'm not sure that that we'll have a product really that work. I uh that work {disfmarker}User Interface: It's kind of hard to guarantee that you're gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's real yeah. How to guarantee such performances is really hard.User Interface: {gap}Marketing: {gap} the expert uh said ninety five percent {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well this is still {disfmarker} is is very bad.User Interface: Ninety five percent is not good enough though. {gap}Project Manager: So, this is the end of this discussion. Next meeting uh here are the task you have to work on. Um {vocalsound} so you have to work on the component uh concept.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Uh you have to work on user interface, and you have to go through a trend watching. Okay. So the question is still open about the L_C_D_ thing. Um uh we {disfmarker} I hope that next meeting we will uh we'll take some um decision that direction. Thanks. Bye.User Interface: Yep. some video input to the T_V_ or we have control over the T_V_ then we can't actually display that. Like if we if we produce the T_V_s then then yeah we can put you know menus up up there, but otherwise we need to actually have some kind of {disfmarker} something sitting in between the video signal and the and the T_V_ to superimpose those those menus. So that's an extraProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah that's right. Don don't you haUser Interface: cost.Project Manager: don't we have contacts with uh people on T_V_ or or {gap} well systems that exist that we can useUser Interface: Well this is this is another que we still haven't really defined the remote. Are we still {disfmarker} you say we're focusing on T_V_, but is it still a kind of like a universal remote in that it's a replacement remote control, or is this something for our own line of of televisionsProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'Cause that really makes a big difference.'Cause {vocalsound} even if we have contacts we can't really produce a remote control that can bring up menus on other other companies'T_V_s. It's just there are too many T_V_s out there. It's it's not really gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. That's good point. What's what cou what could be the cost of uh {disfmarker} well, could we fit the the targets uh in terms of cost uh if we go s to L_C_D_ on the remote controlUser Interface: For twenty five Euro {vocalsound} I think it's impossible.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: It's not possible. It's impossible.User Interface: But but I dunno,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: I think um it would be good to know if there is any leverage in that {disfmarker} any leeway in that um that twenty five Euro because for twenty five Euro I think

Summarize the whole meeting.

Project Manager started introducing meeting purposes on the functional design of the remote control. Group mates have agreed to name the project as'Mando'. Next, Marketing presented user requirements and market reports on current remote improvements. User Interface presented the current trend on remote controls. User Interface compared scroll wheel and LCD screen. Industrial Interface gave a presentation on the working design of different interfaces. Lastly, Project Manager summarized the whole project meeting discussion.

the recovery, will this government be increasing funding to build or buy the housing needed to address homelessnessHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, very early in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic, our government provided $157. 5 million directly to 51 community entities to respond directly to the needs of homeless Canadians. We also provided $50 million in additional money to women's shelters. We are continuing with the national housing strategy. We are providing supports to communities and NGOs, as well as municipalities that are moving projects forward.Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, the federal government allocated just $1. 3 million in Reaching Home funds to my region. While the province has stepped up, it cost them $18. 5 million to purchase just one hotel in Victoria. The federal funding is clearly inadequate. Is the government going to show some leadership and at least match the provincial fundsHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we moved very quickly. The $157. 5 million, I must note, was additional money on top of the base funding that we provide every year to address the needs of Canada's most vulnerable. In addition to that, our projects under the national housing strategy are continuing. We are providing leadership. We are trusting the community entities to make the decisions on where the funding goes and to respond in a way that meets theThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms. Collins, you have about 40 seconds left, which is time for a short question. Go ahead.Ms. Laurel Collins: The minister mentioned the national housing strategy. This government's national housing strategy reduces the level of targeted funding for lower-income households, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer. My question is simple: Coming out of the pandemic in the coming months, is the government going to increase housing funding to address the immediate said that farmers needed to make better use of existing support. When will the Minister of Agriculture listen to what the farmers are saying so they can actually use the existing programsHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, I would like to remind everyone that we have put in place certain measures to improve access to AgriStability. We have also significantly improved the AgriRecovery program. Over the past few years, this program amounted to about $15million. It is now $100million for pork and beef producers alone, not counting the $77. 5million for food processors.Mr. Larry Maguire: Livestock producers in my riding and several across Canada are still waiting for the Minister of Agriculture's promise for an AgriRecovery program. When will the Minister of Agriculture stop rubbing salt in the farmers'wounds and provide the rest of the story she has been saying is on its way for over a month now in her AgriRecovery promiseHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, we have committed $50million to beef producers and $50million to pork producers through the AgriRecovery program. Here is how the program works: the federal government contributes up to60% and then the provinces implement it how they see fit.Mr. Larry Maguire: The funding announced by the Minister of Agriculture for the livestock industry was insufficient, and what was promised has not been delivered. This has caused hogs to be euthanized and over 100,000 feeder cattle to become overweight. The industry is in a crisis. How many livestock producers need to go bankrupt before they get the help they deserveHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, once again, we have significantly increased the amounts available through AgriRecovery. It is $50million for beef producers and $50million for pork producers. These programs are administered by the provinces. There is also $77. 5million for processors.The Chair: Ms. Chabot, you have the sector. The sooner the government tables its recovery plan, the better. Businesses and individuals would start gaining confidence in the economy again. It would help them to loosen the purse strings and be assured that there will be economic life after the pandemic. Again, that is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer says. Can the government tell us when it will table its recovery planHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we feel it is very important to consider what we need to do in each phase of our recovery. At this time, it is necessary to consider the public health situation and the gradual reopening of our economy. That is why we feel our approach aims for a safe recovery. Obviously, by gathering more information in Phase3, we will be able to consider more than one approach to recovery.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds left.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Thank you. I understand that the exact date for tabling the recovery plan may be difficult to determine at this time. Can the minister tell us whether he currently intends to table the recovery plan in a month ending in ber If not, will it be before or after thatHon. Bill Morneau: We continue to work with the provinces on an approach to determine the timing of the recovery, and we are also listening to our colleagues in Parliament, of course.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to the honourable member for Abbotsford, Mr. Fast.Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Prime Minister continues to pander to the Communist regime in China. We were shocked to hear that his own Minister of Digital Government used WeChat, a Chinese social media site, to raise funds to sue a Global News reporterfor what It was for Can the Minister of Agriculture tell us when these delays will endThe Chair: The honourable minister.Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): Mr. Chair, I can assure you that we are working with all the independent operators. This program is not administered by their officials, but by partners. I can assure you that, under the circumstances, they are doing their best to make the advance paymentsMr. Larry Maguire: Farmers understand that some of the delays were caused by staff having to work remotely. However, did the minister approve a policy change on April 1 that made the eligibility for these loans more difficult during the middle of a pandemic, yes or noHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, a number of changes and improvements have been made to the program. To make things easier for our administrators, we have postponed some of the changes that could have been problematic.Mr. Larry Maguire: Yes, so some of the changes made it more problematic for the producers. The minister must take responsibility for these delays. Farmers deserve an answer on why she changed the program. Who advised her that it would be a good idea to make it more difficult for the farmers to access the advance payment program in the middle of a pandemic Or did she just go ahead and do this on her ownHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, we are constantly working with the administrators of the program. We are fully prepared to respond to their requests so that the advance payments program can best serve our producers across the country.Mr. Larry Maguire: Livestock producers are telling me that the premiums for the western livestock insurance program are too high. I told the Minister of Agriculture over two weeks ago that this was a problem, and yet she went out and interference when you watch the video conference in the chamber and it's being transmitted, so let us make things run more smoothly. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. When the government first starting rolling out programs to help Canadians get through this pandemic, we raised points about some flaws and gaps in the program. The government assured Canadians that it would fix these programs as time went on. Well, Canadians are suffering through both the health and the economic consequences of the lockdown related to the coronavirus. Here we are the first day of June and the government still has yet to address the flaws in its programs; it is still letting so many Canadians down. I have a series of very straightforward and specific questions. On April 20 we raised with the Minister of Finance the issue of companies that had purchased another company not being able to demonstrate revenue loss, and therefore not being eligible for the wage subsidy, even though both companies separately would have been able to do just that. We have raised it several times now. I would like to ask the government when it will be fixing this unnecessarily rigid aspect of the wage subsidy program.Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, I believe that a company with a fantastic Canadian history in the member's riding, Brandt Tractor, which pioneered the manufacturing of augers in Canada, is particularly affected by this. It is very important

Summarize the debate about the flaws in government's pandemic relief program.

The leader of the opposition party raised the point that some companies which had purchased other companies might not be eligible for the wage subsidy program, and money allocated for the wage subsidy was going unspent because the government had left in unnecessarily rigid barriers for companies to be able to access it. However, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs argued that the wage subsidy program was supposed to reach out to as many companies as possible, and the wage subsidy was really put in place by a large amount of money to protect workers across Canada.

that Bill C-7 removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime, including the mandatory 10-day waiting period. Mr. Chair, these people who are signing this petition would like to see an improvement in assisted living, not assisted dying.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Zahid.Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to present an e-petition signed by over 40 people. It asks that the Government of Canada recognize the Republic of Somaliland as an autonomous state that may result in foreign investments, direct access of development aid, foreign aid for disaster relief and infrastructure development investment loans.The Chair: Now we'll proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. Each statement will be for a maximum of one minute. I remind members that if they exceed that time limit, they will be interrupted. Our first statement goes to Monsieur El-Khoury.Mr. Fayal El-Khoury (LavalLes les, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I thank the government for the way it has managed this global crisis and its impact on Canadians. It has acted in a robust, rapid and very effective way. Our Prime Minister has been awarded the medal of honour, courage and humanity worldwide. Canada is one of the few countries that has acted in the best interests of its citizens and maintained their dignity in these uncertain times. While addressing Canadians, our right honourable Prime Minister showed us leadership, the importance of transparency, and integrity. He kept us united. His top priority was saving lives, along with finding realistic solutions regarding the economic impact on our daily life. Because of his outstanding leadership, we're admired across the world, which is another distinguished privilege of being Canadian. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Epp.Mr. Dave Epp (Chatham-KentLeamington, CPC): COVID-19 has emptied food Glengarry, CPC): Without a doubt, these past few months have been challenging, to say the least, from both a health and economic perspective, but, Mr. Chair, I have to say how proud I am of my community of StormontDundasSouth Glengarry. We continue to successfully flatten the curve in our region and, just as importantly, we are making sure that we are here for each other, whether it is the Cornwall Optimists'GoFeedMe campaign, the Iroquois-Matilda Lions Club delivering groceries to those who are quarantined in their households or the local United Way, the Social Development Council or the Carefor seniors support centre co-leading an effort to deliver 1,500 baskets to seniors in need. There have been many examples of kindness and generosity from our community. I rise today in the House of Commons to say thank you to my constituents and to all Canadians; to our essential front-line workers, our service clubs and our businesses that have stepped up to help out; and to everybody playing their part to get us through this challenge. I couldn't be more proud of my community and my residents, and it is an honour to serve as their member of Parliament. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Yip.Ms. Jean Yip (ScarboroughAgincourt, Lib.): Mr. Chair, although Asian Heritage Month has just passed, we recognize the tremendous effort of all Asian Canadians on the front lines of this pandemic, as health care providers or as essential workers. I want to thank the many Asian organizations for donating to ScarboroughAgincourt's hospital, long-term care homes and food banks. As a Canadian born and raised in Scarborough, I'm offended by the reports of violence and vandalism targeting Asian-Canadian communities across this country. In budget 2019 we invested $45 million to launch a new anti-racism strategy, which Mr. Chair, since the beginning of this crisis, our priority has been to support Canadians and their health and safety. We will continue to do so, because it is important that we get through this crisis by supporting Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who was paid $360,000 U. S. by an American-funded organization after he started working with the Prime MinisterHon. Mona Fortier: Once again, Mr. Chair, it is important to talk to Canadians right now to tell them that we are putting their health and safety first. We will continue to do so. We are going through a crisis right now and we will support Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who, in his role as the principal secretary in the office of Ontario's then premier, advanced policies that now saddle Ontarians with the highest energy costs in North America Is this is the same Gerald Butts who weighed down Ontario with the world's highest subnational debt burden, all for the benefit of new green jobs that, notably, have never arrivedHon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, as we know, for the past two and a half months, we have been supporting Canadians. We have put forward an economic program to help businesses, workers and Canadians across the country. We will continue to make the health and safety of Canadians a priority.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the MP for West Nova, Mr. d'Entremont.Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Yesterday, the Minister responsible for tourism, ACOA and official languages was happy to close our national Tourism Week by announcing investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada. Where's the big clap Some hon. members: Hear, hear! Mr. Chris d'Entremont: There you go, give (Port MoodyCoquitlam, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Although we've come to the end of Asian Heritage Month, I'd like to acknowledge some unsung Chinese Canadian heroes who shed their blood as patriots for our nation. I commemorate the 6,500 Chinese Canadians of the 9,000 railway workers who helped build and unite Canada. I pay respect to the many Chinese Canadians who died while building the CP Railway on the most dangerous terrains in the B. C. segment. I honour the Chinese Canadians who served and died in World War II. Sadly, Asian communities in Canada face racist incidents today. No one should be afraid of walking in their own neighbourhood. Adult children should not have to call their elderly parents to tell them to stay home because they might be attacked by racists. There's no justification for racial slurs, physical violence or vandalism against any individual or community. I will continue to work together with other elected officials, the police and the RCMP to mitigate these issues toward justice and restoration.The Chair: We'll go on to Mr. Angus. Mr. Angus, please proceed.Mr. Charlie Angus (TimminsJames Bay, NDP): Ten years ago today, Cree youth leader Shannen Koostachin was killed in a horrific car accident. She was only 15 years old, yet in her short life she became the voice of a generation of first nation youth who were no longer willing to put up with systemic discrimination. Shannen had never seen a real school. Children in Attawapiskat were being educated in squalid conditions. Her fight for their dignity and rights launched the largest youth-driven civil rights movement in Canadian history. At 14 she was nominated for the International Children's Peace Prize. Shannen never lived to see the school that was built in her community, but her work carries on through the is sitting in a different configuration. Unfortunately, I had to explain to him that many restrictions were associated with the current format of this fake Parliament. The pandemic is also threatening the protection of French in minority communities. The Liberal government made a commitment to modernize the Official Languages Act in the first six months of its mandate. How will it proceedHon. Mlanie Joly: Mr. Chair, it goes without saying that our two official languages are important and that, when it comes to language rights, we must always be on guard and protect what we have achieved. As for Campus Saint-Jean, I am very aware of the issue. I had the opportunity to speak with my two counterparts in Alberta late Friday afternoon to tell them about our concerns and the need to protect the institution from drastic cuts. That was the first point. The second point is the modernization of the Official Languages Act. I have the same concerns as my colleague. Clearly, we must continue the conversations and find the right solutions. Finally, we must be there to protect our language rights. If the member has good ideas, he can come to me to discuss them.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for ChicoutimiLe Fjord has the floor.Mr. Richard Martel (ChicoutimiLe Fjord, CPC): Mr. Chair, some people for whom the 15weeks of sickness benefits were not enough before the COVID-19crisis now have to exhaust their regular employment insurance benefits before they are entitled to the CERB. Today, I would like to know whether they will be able to exhaust their weeks of eligibility for the CERB after October3.Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we ensured that those who switched over to the Canada emergency response benefit would be covered by it, whether they were EI eligible or

How did racism and long-term care related to government's policy

The leader of the opposition party wished to know that race-based or discriminatory police practices still exist across Canada. The minister reassured that there would not be such a thing in the police system. And also, the opposition party questioned about the inadequate long-term care facilities in Canada, and the minister stressed that the government saw it as a matter of utmost concern and urgency.

is describing is the reason we are currently working on a game plan. We really want to be able to reach these small businesses, of which there are many in SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean, in Quebec and across the country. That is why the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have committed an additional $1billion to help those businesses that fall through the cracks. We need to respond now, and I will have more to say about it in the next few days.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, I was very disappointed to see that we had lost asparagus crops due to a labour shortage. When I spoke with the blueberry growers in my area, they told me they were concerned that the same thing could happen to them. Some employers to whom we granted summer positions are not finding students to fill them. When will there be incentives to encourage people to work rather than disincentivesHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we believe that the flexibilities we have introduced to the Canada summer jobs program will enable more employers to use it, including more businesses, as well as help young people to acquire the necessary skills and benefits from this really important program.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Martel, you have about a minute left.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, on May19, the government said that it was studying several solutions to help business owners and entrepreneurs who operate their business using a personal bank account. When will the Canada emergency business account be available to themHon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Mr. Chair, small businesses are the heart of all of our communities, and we've been working really hard to help them. Almost 650,000 small businesses have received the loan, which is really helping with those Mr. Chair, since the beginning of this crisis, our priority has been to support Canadians and their health and safety. We will continue to do so, because it is important that we get through this crisis by supporting Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who was paid $360,000 U. S. by an American-funded organization after he started working with the Prime MinisterHon. Mona Fortier: Once again, Mr. Chair, it is important to talk to Canadians right now to tell them that we are putting their health and safety first. We will continue to do so. We are going through a crisis right now and we will support Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who, in his role as the principal secretary in the office of Ontario's then premier, advanced policies that now saddle Ontarians with the highest energy costs in North America Is this is the same Gerald Butts who weighed down Ontario with the world's highest subnational debt burden, all for the benefit of new green jobs that, notably, have never arrivedHon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, as we know, for the past two and a half months, we have been supporting Canadians. We have put forward an economic program to help businesses, workers and Canadians across the country. We will continue to make the health and safety of Canadians a priority.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the MP for West Nova, Mr. d'Entremont.Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Yesterday, the Minister responsible for tourism, ACOA and official languages was happy to close our national Tourism Week by announcing investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada. Where's the big clap Some hon. members: Hear, hear! Mr. Chris d'Entremont: There you go, give for us that the wage subsidy be available to as many Canadian companies as possible. It helps to keep employees connected to their businesses. Now, there are always some specific issues that can make it challenging for particular companies. I know that in the case of Brandt Tractor, for example, officials from the Ministry of Finance are directly in touch with the company to work on its issues.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, that's the same answer we got last week. It's the same answer we got two weeks before that, and it's the same answer we have been getting from day one. This is a very simple question. The government has indicated that it will change this program to allow for amalgamations. The solution is very simple. It is to also allow for those companies that have undergone acquisitions. This is a very specific question: Will the government fix this program and allow for companies that have acquired another company to still access the wage subsidy programHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, let me just point out that the wage subsidy program is working extremely well for many, many Canadian companies and for many, many Canadians who are able to keep their jobs thanks to the program. More than two million Canadian workers are today benefiting from the wage subsidy program. By any measure that is a successful program. Now, for sure there are always going to be companies which, because of specifics in their history, need specific attention, and thatThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, reports indicate that up to half of the money allocated for the wage subsidy is going unspent, precisely because this government has left in unnecessarily rigid barriers for companies to be able to access it. It's a yes-or-no question, interference when you watch the video conference in the chamber and it's being transmitted, so let us make things run more smoothly. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. When the government first starting rolling out programs to help Canadians get through this pandemic, we raised points about some flaws and gaps in the program. The government assured Canadians that it would fix these programs as time went on. Well, Canadians are suffering through both the health and the economic consequences of the lockdown related to the coronavirus. Here we are the first day of June and the government still has yet to address the flaws in its programs; it is still letting so many Canadians down. I have a series of very straightforward and specific questions. On April 20 we raised with the Minister of Finance the issue of companies that had purchased another company not being able to demonstrate revenue loss, and therefore not being eligible for the wage subsidy, even though both companies separately would have been able to do just that. We have raised it several times now. I would like to ask the government when it will be fixing this unnecessarily rigid aspect of the wage subsidy program.Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, I believe that a company with a fantastic Canadian history in the member's riding, Brandt Tractor, which pioneered the manufacturing of augers in Canada, is particularly affected by this. It is very important is to support workers across Canada and Quebec, to help them keep their jobs and allow them to stay connected to their workplace. That is what we've done. More than 2million Canadians are benefiting from this important and truly essential program for our country. We are proud of it.Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr. Chair, does the Deputy Prime Minister think it is moral, fair and honest that employees who have lost their jobs are subsidizing an emergency wage subsidy for the Liberal Party of Canada out of their taxesHon. Chrystia Freeland: Our programs do not discriminate. They are there to help all workers. The hon. member talked about businesses and sectors that need more help. We agree. There is still a lot to do, but we want to work with all theThe Chair: Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr. Chair, many struggling businesses in Quebec don't have access to the Canada emergency wage subsidy because they don't meet the eligibility criteria. Many tourism and municipal organizations, among others, don't have access to this wage subsidy. However, it's very clear that the Liberal Party qualifies according to the program criteria. Does the Deputy Prime Minister really think it's moral for her party to benefit from the emergency wage subsidy when it has the financial means to pay its own employeesHon. Chrystia Freeland: I thank the hon. member for her question. I agree that there is still a lot to do. We are ready, and we are taking action. However, it's important to point out that our government has already done a lot to support Canadians. We've spent $152billion in direct support measures to Canadians. More than eightmillion people are benefiting from the CERB, and more than twomillionThe Chair: Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr. Chair, what I understand is not

Summarize the questioning about Canada summer jobs program.

Members from the opposition party questioned that employers from industry, businesses and community organizations that have been approved in the Canada summer jobs program had not yet received the money they are entitled to. The Minister of Families, Children and Social Development answered that they were putting in strength to reinforce the program and allow it in reaching out to more unemployed students. Members from the opposition party raised their concern towards the weak job market due to the COVID-19, but the Minister argued that they were still tackling obstacles to implement this policy in reality.

not. We are committed to supporting all of the workers who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.Mr. Richard Martel: According to a survey conducted by the Universit du Qubec Trois-Rivires'research institute on small and medium size businesses, the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region would be the most affected by the economic effects of COVID-19. This is not surprising. In fact, in our region, the tourism industry generates more than $300million in economic activity, including $58million for the cruise industry alone. The $70million that you announced yesterday is a very modest start. What does the government intend to do for the tourism industry in the regionsHon. Mlanie Joly: Mr. Chair, it goes without saying that the tourism industry is indeed very much affected. That is why we are responding to their concerns and worries. We have therefore extended the emergency wage subsidy until the end of August. We are also providing the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance, as well as the $40,000loans from the Canada emergency business account. We have also just announced $70million in support for Canada's tourism sector. I am having good talks with various stakeholders in Quebec, including Martin Soucy from the Alliance de l'industrie touristique du Qubec. In addition, we are going to do our part to support the tourism sector through Economic Development Canada.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, the tourism industry in the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region is the sum of all its stakeholders. Many of these businesses are too small to receive the assistance announced by the federal government. Overly restrictive standards will prevent some tourist accommodation from welcoming guests this year, even though they will have to pay their bills every month. What does the government plan to do to help the regions most affected economicallyHon. Mlanie Joly: I thank my colleague for his important question. What he have the honour to table, in both official languages, a report entitled" Democracy Matters, Debates Count: A report on the 2019 Leaders'Debates Commission and the future of debates in Canada. Mr. Chair, on behalf of all of us, I want to thank the Right Honourable David Johnston for his continued service.The Chair: Good. We'll now proceed to the presenting of petitions, for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that you please come to the front and drop off your certificate at the table once the petition has been presented. In presenting petitions, the first presenter today is Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to be presenting a petition in support of Bill S-204. This is a bill in the Senate, put forward by Senator Salma Ataullahjan. It would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not been consent by the donor. It also creates a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organ harvesting and trafficking. This bill is designed to confront and address the horrific practice by which, in certain casesfor instance, inside Chinaminority communities or dissidents may be targeted and have their organs removed as they're killed and used for transplantation. Petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204, and they want to see it passed as soon as possible.The Chair: Our next petition will go to Mr. Viersen.Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace RiverWestlock, CPC): Mr. Chair, I am presenting a petition today signed by Canadians who are concerned is describing is the reason we are currently working on a game plan. We really want to be able to reach these small businesses, of which there are many in SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean, in Quebec and across the country. That is why the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have committed an additional $1billion to help those businesses that fall through the cracks. We need to respond now, and I will have more to say about it in the next few days.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, I was very disappointed to see that we had lost asparagus crops due to a labour shortage. When I spoke with the blueberry growers in my area, they told me they were concerned that the same thing could happen to them. Some employers to whom we granted summer positions are not finding students to fill them. When will there be incentives to encourage people to work rather than disincentivesHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we believe that the flexibilities we have introduced to the Canada summer jobs program will enable more employers to use it, including more businesses, as well as help young people to acquire the necessary skills and benefits from this really important program.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Martel, you have about a minute left.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, on May19, the government said that it was studying several solutions to help business owners and entrepreneurs who operate their business using a personal bank account. When will the Canada emergency business account be available to themHon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Mr. Chair, small businesses are the heart of all of our communities, and we've been working really hard to help them. Almost 650,000 small businesses have received the loan, which is really helping with those Mr. Chair, since the beginning of this crisis, our priority has been to support Canadians and their health and safety. We will continue to do so, because it is important that we get through this crisis by supporting Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who was paid $360,000 U. S. by an American-funded organization after he started working with the Prime MinisterHon. Mona Fortier: Once again, Mr. Chair, it is important to talk to Canadians right now to tell them that we are putting their health and safety first. We will continue to do so. We are going through a crisis right now and we will support Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who, in his role as the principal secretary in the office of Ontario's then premier, advanced policies that now saddle Ontarians with the highest energy costs in North America Is this is the same Gerald Butts who weighed down Ontario with the world's highest subnational debt burden, all for the benefit of new green jobs that, notably, have never arrivedHon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, as we know, for the past two and a half months, we have been supporting Canadians. We have put forward an economic program to help businesses, workers and Canadians across the country. We will continue to make the health and safety of Canadians a priority.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the MP for West Nova, Mr. d'Entremont.Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Yesterday, the Minister responsible for tourism, ACOA and official languages was happy to close our national Tourism Week by announcing investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada. Where's the big clap Some hon. members: Hear, hear! Mr. Chris d'Entremont: There you go, give support the dairy sector in these times so we can celebrate World Milk Day next year with more vim and vigour.Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank Mr. Easter, from the great riding of Malpeque in Prince Edward Island. Today it is particularly important to thank families working on the 11,000 dairy farms across the country, caring for 1. 4 million cows to produce each year more than 9. 3 billion litres of milk of the highest quality. The dairy sector in Canada is made up of more than 220,000 Canadians and foreign workers who dedicate their lives to feed us. While our society lives through unprecedented changes, the dairy sector demonstrates its resilience and proves more than ever the value of the supply management system. It is why we increased by $200 million the borrowing capacity of the Canadian Dairy Commission to improve its butter and cheese storage programs, giving the flexibility to manage the surplus of milk and support its mandate. Over the past few years, we have invested in dairy farms and given direct compensation to dairy farmers through trade agreements with Europe and Asia. We will do the same for the new NAFTA. Raise a glass for World Milk Day.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Ms. Sahota in Brampton North.Ms. Ruby Sahota (Brampton North, Lib.): Mr. Chair, last week a horrific video surfaced showing the killing of an unarmed black man at the hands of the Minneapolis police. George Floyd's death was the latest in a series of unwarranted deaths of black men and women at the hands of police. Since his death, solidarity protests have erupted across cities in the United States and all over the world asking for justice and a stop to systemic dehumanization

Summarize the questioning about the local production of surgical masks, protective gowns and N95 masks.

Since the government cancelled contracts with companies that were not able to meet Canadian standards, the member highlighted that it should be supporting more local companies for production. The minister answered that the government had been running multiple complementary supply chains at the same time, and were signing contracts with few more domestic companies. However, the opposition party was skeptical about those companies and other possible companies receiving sufficient funds for production.

a timely manner. With only three weeks left in the House before the summer, the clock is ticking. The Quebec government will table its economic update later this month. Will the federal government follow suitHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, let me confirm that we will continue to be transparent about the investments; it is very important. Of course, each day we work to make sure we have a solid grasp of the economic situation. As I said, when the situation is a little more stable, we will have the opportunity to explain our situation with an economic update.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Once again, Mr. Chair, when the situation is more stable, it will be too late to do an economic update; instead we will have to table a budget with the recovery in mind. Speaking of the recovery, the Parliamentary Budget Officer is surprised that the government is calling on the private sector for ideas for its recovery plan. Mr. Giroux points out that this government has thousands of public servants with very good ideas, and he adds that the government can also ask for the opposition parties'views. That would be a very good idea. Why is the government contracting out the development of its recovery plan to the private sectorHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would like to tell the hon. member that it is important to listen to what we are trying to do, and to listen to people's ideas and opinions, not only in Parliament, but also from our society. So we keep listening. Of course, with our approach, we will address the economic recovery in a way that will ensure we can maintain our very strong position.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, we are still surprised that the government has contracted out its recovery plan to the private that Bill C-7 removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime, including the mandatory 10-day waiting period. Mr. Chair, these people who are signing this petition would like to see an improvement in assisted living, not assisted dying.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Zahid.Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to present an e-petition signed by over 40 people. It asks that the Government of Canada recognize the Republic of Somaliland as an autonomous state that may result in foreign investments, direct access of development aid, foreign aid for disaster relief and infrastructure development investment loans.The Chair: Now we'll proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. Each statement will be for a maximum of one minute. I remind members that if they exceed that time limit, they will be interrupted. Our first statement goes to Monsieur El-Khoury.Mr. Fayal El-Khoury (LavalLes les, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I thank the government for the way it has managed this global crisis and its impact on Canadians. It has acted in a robust, rapid and very effective way. Our Prime Minister has been awarded the medal of honour, courage and humanity worldwide. Canada is one of the few countries that has acted in the best interests of its citizens and maintained their dignity in these uncertain times. While addressing Canadians, our right honourable Prime Minister showed us leadership, the importance of transparency, and integrity. He kept us united. His top priority was saving lives, along with finding realistic solutions regarding the economic impact on our daily life. Because of his outstanding leadership, we're admired across the world, which is another distinguished privilege of being Canadian. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Epp.Mr. Dave Epp (Chatham-KentLeamington, CPC): COVID-19 has emptied food sector. The sooner the government tables its recovery plan, the better. Businesses and individuals would start gaining confidence in the economy again. It would help them to loosen the purse strings and be assured that there will be economic life after the pandemic. Again, that is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer says. Can the government tell us when it will table its recovery planHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we feel it is very important to consider what we need to do in each phase of our recovery. At this time, it is necessary to consider the public health situation and the gradual reopening of our economy. That is why we feel our approach aims for a safe recovery. Obviously, by gathering more information in Phase3, we will be able to consider more than one approach to recovery.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds left.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Thank you. I understand that the exact date for tabling the recovery plan may be difficult to determine at this time. Can the minister tell us whether he currently intends to table the recovery plan in a month ending in ber If not, will it be before or after thatHon. Bill Morneau: We continue to work with the provinces on an approach to determine the timing of the recovery, and we are also listening to our colleagues in Parliament, of course.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to the honourable member for Abbotsford, Mr. Fast.Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Prime Minister continues to pander to the Communist regime in China. We were shocked to hear that his own Minister of Digital Government used WeChat, a Chinese social media site, to raise funds to sue a Global News reporterfor what It was for The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.) ): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 14thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybrid meeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Speaker's chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using their earpiece at their desk. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We'll now proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are none. Now we'll proceed to the tabling of documents. Mr. LeBlanc has a document he wants to table. Go ahead, Mr. LeBlanc.Hon. Dominic LeBlanc: Mr. Chair, I interference when you watch the video conference in the chamber and it's being transmitted, so let us make things run more smoothly. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. When the government first starting rolling out programs to help Canadians get through this pandemic, we raised points about some flaws and gaps in the program. The government assured Canadians that it would fix these programs as time went on. Well, Canadians are suffering through both the health and the economic consequences of the lockdown related to the coronavirus. Here we are the first day of June and the government still has yet to address the flaws in its programs; it is still letting so many Canadians down. I have a series of very straightforward and specific questions. On April 20 we raised with the Minister of Finance the issue of companies that had purchased another company not being able to demonstrate revenue loss, and therefore not being eligible for the wage subsidy, even though both companies separately would have been able to do just that. We have raised it several times now. I would like to ask the government when it will be fixing this unnecessarily rigid aspect of the wage subsidy program.Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, I believe that a company with a fantastic Canadian history in the member's riding, Brandt Tractor, which pioneered the manufacturing of augers in Canada, is particularly affected by this. It is very important

What did the opposition party and the minister debated about transparency of information during pandemic crisis

The Minister of Canadian Heritage explained that the government remained committed to maintaining the openness and transparency during the crisis. However, the opposition party questioned about the allocation of $35 billion of infrastructure money. The opposition party suspected that the money went to personal salary and this doubt was not clarified enough during the later discussion.

a timely manner. With only three weeks left in the House before the summer, the clock is ticking. The Quebec government will table its economic update later this month. Will the federal government follow suitHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, let me confirm that we will continue to be transparent about the investments; it is very important. Of course, each day we work to make sure we have a solid grasp of the economic situation. As I said, when the situation is a little more stable, we will have the opportunity to explain our situation with an economic update.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Once again, Mr. Chair, when the situation is more stable, it will be too late to do an economic update; instead we will have to table a budget with the recovery in mind. Speaking of the recovery, the Parliamentary Budget Officer is surprised that the government is calling on the private sector for ideas for its recovery plan. Mr. Giroux points out that this government has thousands of public servants with very good ideas, and he adds that the government can also ask for the opposition parties'views. That would be a very good idea. Why is the government contracting out the development of its recovery plan to the private sectorHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would like to tell the hon. member that it is important to listen to what we are trying to do, and to listen to people's ideas and opinions, not only in Parliament, but also from our society. So we keep listening. Of course, with our approach, we will address the economic recovery in a way that will ensure we can maintain our very strong position.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, we are still surprised that the government has contracted out its recovery plan to the private Mr. Chair, since the beginning of this crisis, our priority has been to support Canadians and their health and safety. We will continue to do so, because it is important that we get through this crisis by supporting Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who was paid $360,000 U. S. by an American-funded organization after he started working with the Prime MinisterHon. Mona Fortier: Once again, Mr. Chair, it is important to talk to Canadians right now to tell them that we are putting their health and safety first. We will continue to do so. We are going through a crisis right now and we will support Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who, in his role as the principal secretary in the office of Ontario's then premier, advanced policies that now saddle Ontarians with the highest energy costs in North America Is this is the same Gerald Butts who weighed down Ontario with the world's highest subnational debt burden, all for the benefit of new green jobs that, notably, have never arrivedHon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, as we know, for the past two and a half months, we have been supporting Canadians. We have put forward an economic program to help businesses, workers and Canadians across the country. We will continue to make the health and safety of Canadians a priority.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the MP for West Nova, Mr. d'Entremont.Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Yesterday, the Minister responsible for tourism, ACOA and official languages was happy to close our national Tourism Week by announcing investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada. Where's the big clap Some hon. members: Hear, hear! Mr. Chris d'Entremont: There you go, give that Bill C-7 removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime, including the mandatory 10-day waiting period. Mr. Chair, these people who are signing this petition would like to see an improvement in assisted living, not assisted dying.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Zahid.Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to present an e-petition signed by over 40 people. It asks that the Government of Canada recognize the Republic of Somaliland as an autonomous state that may result in foreign investments, direct access of development aid, foreign aid for disaster relief and infrastructure development investment loans.The Chair: Now we'll proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. Each statement will be for a maximum of one minute. I remind members that if they exceed that time limit, they will be interrupted. Our first statement goes to Monsieur El-Khoury.Mr. Fayal El-Khoury (LavalLes les, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I thank the government for the way it has managed this global crisis and its impact on Canadians. It has acted in a robust, rapid and very effective way. Our Prime Minister has been awarded the medal of honour, courage and humanity worldwide. Canada is one of the few countries that has acted in the best interests of its citizens and maintained their dignity in these uncertain times. While addressing Canadians, our right honourable Prime Minister showed us leadership, the importance of transparency, and integrity. He kept us united. His top priority was saving lives, along with finding realistic solutions regarding the economic impact on our daily life. Because of his outstanding leadership, we're admired across the world, which is another distinguished privilege of being Canadian. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Epp.Mr. Dave Epp (Chatham-KentLeamington, CPC): COVID-19 has emptied food The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.) ): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 14thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybrid meeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Speaker's chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using their earpiece at their desk. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We'll now proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are none. Now we'll proceed to the tabling of documents. Mr. LeBlanc has a document he wants to table. Go ahead, Mr. LeBlanc.Hon. Dominic LeBlanc: Mr. Chair, I that I was talking with a man with heart, a passionate man, a man who had Quebec imprinted on his heart. Because of your decision to join the Conservative Party of Canada, I got to know you personally, and I am most grateful. I will remember our discussions on the best ways to communicate our Conservative vision to Quebeckers. I will remember our heated discussions on Quebec-Canada relations. I will remember all the passion and energy you had in the lead-up to a speech to our supporters. Michel, Canadians, Quebeckers and I will remember you forever, the great man you were, the outstanding speaker, a formidable parliamentarian, with integrity, passion, commitment and love for Quebec. I offer my sincere condolences to Anne, and to your family and friends. Rest in peace.The Chair: Mr. Dubourg, you now have the floor.Mr. Emmanuel Dubourg (Bourassa, Lib.): Mr. Chair, the murder of GeorgeFloyd in Minneapolis resonated strongly within black communities in Canada and also in the heart of Montreal North. At a time of pandemic uncertainty when members of our community find themselves on the front lines as essential workers, an event like this rekindles feelings of fear, powerlessness and injustice. It has happened once again in the UnitedStates, but we are not immune to such behaviour here, in Canada. Dear constituents of Bourassa, I know our stories, I feel with you the pain as a parent and as a black person. I know this constant fear for our children. As elected officials, we have the duty to protect your rights and to ensure harmony. We must be vigilant and work to deconstruct prejudice and discrimination.The Chair: Before continuing, I'd like to give a reminder. To avoid sound problems, members participating in person shouldn't connect to the video conference. There seems to be some

How was the reopening of the House of Commons related to the diplomatic relations of Canada

According to the introduction of the opposition party, it has the power to introduce supply day motions and test government confidence. And the opposition party hoped that through this regime, Canada would take stronger diplomatic action on Hong Kong and gave more support for 300,000 Canadians living there. The Minister of Foreign Affairs promised that the Canada government would be continuing to raise voices to stand up for the people of Hong Kong.

is describing is the reason we are currently working on a game plan. We really want to be able to reach these small businesses, of which there are many in SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean, in Quebec and across the country. That is why the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have committed an additional $1billion to help those businesses that fall through the cracks. We need to respond now, and I will have more to say about it in the next few days.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, I was very disappointed to see that we had lost asparagus crops due to a labour shortage. When I spoke with the blueberry growers in my area, they told me they were concerned that the same thing could happen to them. Some employers to whom we granted summer positions are not finding students to fill them. When will there be incentives to encourage people to work rather than disincentivesHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we believe that the flexibilities we have introduced to the Canada summer jobs program will enable more employers to use it, including more businesses, as well as help young people to acquire the necessary skills and benefits from this really important program.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Martel, you have about a minute left.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, on May19, the government said that it was studying several solutions to help business owners and entrepreneurs who operate their business using a personal bank account. When will the Canada emergency business account be available to themHon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Mr. Chair, small businesses are the heart of all of our communities, and we've been working really hard to help them. Almost 650,000 small businesses have received the loan, which is really helping with those said that farmers needed to make better use of existing support. When will the Minister of Agriculture listen to what the farmers are saying so they can actually use the existing programsHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, I would like to remind everyone that we have put in place certain measures to improve access to AgriStability. We have also significantly improved the AgriRecovery program. Over the past few years, this program amounted to about $15million. It is now $100million for pork and beef producers alone, not counting the $77. 5million for food processors.Mr. Larry Maguire: Livestock producers in my riding and several across Canada are still waiting for the Minister of Agriculture's promise for an AgriRecovery program. When will the Minister of Agriculture stop rubbing salt in the farmers'wounds and provide the rest of the story she has been saying is on its way for over a month now in her AgriRecovery promiseHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, we have committed $50million to beef producers and $50million to pork producers through the AgriRecovery program. Here is how the program works: the federal government contributes up to60% and then the provinces implement it how they see fit.Mr. Larry Maguire: The funding announced by the Minister of Agriculture for the livestock industry was insufficient, and what was promised has not been delivered. This has caused hogs to be euthanized and over 100,000 feeder cattle to become overweight. The industry is in a crisis. How many livestock producers need to go bankrupt before they get the help they deserveHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, once again, we have significantly increased the amounts available through AgriRecovery. It is $50million for beef producers and $50million for pork producers. These programs are administered by the provinces. There is also $77. 5million for processors.The Chair: Ms. Chabot, you have the Can the Minister of Agriculture tell us when these delays will endThe Chair: The honourable minister.Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): Mr. Chair, I can assure you that we are working with all the independent operators. This program is not administered by their officials, but by partners. I can assure you that, under the circumstances, they are doing their best to make the advance paymentsMr. Larry Maguire: Farmers understand that some of the delays were caused by staff having to work remotely. However, did the minister approve a policy change on April 1 that made the eligibility for these loans more difficult during the middle of a pandemic, yes or noHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, a number of changes and improvements have been made to the program. To make things easier for our administrators, we have postponed some of the changes that could have been problematic.Mr. Larry Maguire: Yes, so some of the changes made it more problematic for the producers. The minister must take responsibility for these delays. Farmers deserve an answer on why she changed the program. Who advised her that it would be a good idea to make it more difficult for the farmers to access the advance payment program in the middle of a pandemic Or did she just go ahead and do this on her ownHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, we are constantly working with the administrators of the program. We are fully prepared to respond to their requests so that the advance payments program can best serve our producers across the country.Mr. Larry Maguire: Livestock producers are telling me that the premiums for the western livestock insurance program are too high. I told the Minister of Agriculture over two weeks ago that this was a problem, and yet she went out and Hong Kongers and the violation of the Sino-British treatyThe Chair: The honourable minister.Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne (Minister of Foreign Affairs): Mr. Chair, I'll remind the member to look at our statement of May 28. It's already done. Canada has spoken to the world; Canada has spoken up. We've made a first declaration with our colleagues in Australia and the U. K. to say that we have deep concerns. We all know that the one country, two systemsthe high degree of liberty and freedom enjoyed by the people in Hong Konghas made Hong Kong what it is today, a beacon when it comes to trade and financing. We know that and have expressed deep concern. Again, on May 28, with the United States, with the United Kingdom and with Australia, Canada was front and centre in saying that we have deep concerns that the imposition of a national security law by Beijing would undermine the very foundation, the very principles that have made Hong Kong so successful. We said that we and our international partners would look at the implications and the ramifications that this might have on our arrangement. I've called for a meeting of our Five Eyes partners tonight. I'll be chairing a meeting of our Five Eyes partners with the foreign ministers. We will be discussing it and will continue to raise our voices to stand up for the people of Hong Kong, and we will do it with our allies.The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Maguire.Mr. Larry Maguire (BrandonSouris, CPC): Mr. Chair, farmers have contacted my office about the massive delays with processing the advance payment program loans. Some put their applications in almost two months ago, and not a dollar has flowed. What's the point of having an advance payment program if there's no payment small businesses hire and keep the workers that they need in the Canada summer jobs program.Mr. Alain Rayes: The young people and employers listening to us must be very surprised by what the minister is saying. He mentioned that the rules are now more flexible. However, it is taking a month and a half longer than last year. The money has not yet been given out. I have done my homework. I went to see what was happening in my riding and in about 10other ridings. Last year, in my riding, all the money had been deposited before April. Right now, there is a $240,000shortfall for about 60student jobs, and the minister has the nerve to tell us that the government has provided more flexibility. Why is the money not available if the government wants to act quickly, to help the economy recover and to help young peopleHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, indeed we are acting quickly. We are listening to the needs of the employers to make sure that this program works not only for them but also for youth, and that it gives them the experiences they need. It is adapted better for the COVID-19 pandemic to ensure that youth have the experience they need to gain life and work skills from the program. It's a great program, and we're making it work not just for businesses but also for non-profits.Mr. Alain Rayes: Here is the reality. Last week, the owner of a hardware store in a village in my riding had to close his business because he was unable to hire students and had no one to work. This morning, an employer called me to tell me that his request to hire a student had been accepted, but that the delay meant that he could not proceed

Why was the advance payment program delayed

The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food promised that under the circumstances, the government was doing its best to make the advance payments. Some of the delays were caused by staff having to work remotely. However, the opposition party suggested that there was policy change that made the eligibility for these loans more difficult during the middle of the pandemic. The minister explained that they were still constantly working with the administrators of the program.

sector. The sooner the government tables its recovery plan, the better. Businesses and individuals would start gaining confidence in the economy again. It would help them to loosen the purse strings and be assured that there will be economic life after the pandemic. Again, that is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer says. Can the government tell us when it will table its recovery planHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we feel it is very important to consider what we need to do in each phase of our recovery. At this time, it is necessary to consider the public health situation and the gradual reopening of our economy. That is why we feel our approach aims for a safe recovery. Obviously, by gathering more information in Phase3, we will be able to consider more than one approach to recovery.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds left.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Thank you. I understand that the exact date for tabling the recovery plan may be difficult to determine at this time. Can the minister tell us whether he currently intends to table the recovery plan in a month ending in ber If not, will it be before or after thatHon. Bill Morneau: We continue to work with the provinces on an approach to determine the timing of the recovery, and we are also listening to our colleagues in Parliament, of course.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to the honourable member for Abbotsford, Mr. Fast.Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Prime Minister continues to pander to the Communist regime in China. We were shocked to hear that his own Minister of Digital Government used WeChat, a Chinese social media site, to raise funds to sue a Global News reporterfor what It was for weeks. The member is well aware that in 2019The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go back to Mr. Duvall.Mr. Scott Duvall: Mr. Chair, the changes the government made last year to bankruptcy insolvency laws were largely cosmetic and won't protect workers'and pensioners'livelihoods once bankruptcy hits. The government can protect severance, termination pay, pensions and benefits from corporate theft, but will they do it, yes or noThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.Hon. Filomena Tassi: Mr. Chair, we made a number of significant changes in budget 2019, including that the process for the CCAA be more open and transparent. We mandated that those who are coming to the process have to be honest and truthful. One thing we heard in the consultations was the ability for courts to set aside executive bonuses, and we implemented all those changes because we want to continue to protect pensioners.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have time for a short question, Mr. Duvall.Mr. Scott Duvall: Thanks, Mr. Chair. The minister isn't answering the question. Canadian workers are worried. This is about their livelihoods. Will the government fix the lawsyes or noto protect workers'and pensioners'rightsThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.Hon. Filomena Tassi: Mr. Chair, we have made amendments, and we are going to continue to make amendments. We want to absolutely ensure that pensions are protected. I look forward to working collaboratively with the member.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Mr. Blaikie, ElmwoodTranscona.Mr. Daniel Blaikie (ElmwoodTranscona, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Twice, following negotiations with the NDP, the government has committed to provide direct financial assistance to people living with disabilities. I'm wondering when those people can expect the government to announce the details of that assistance.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): interference when you watch the video conference in the chamber and it's being transmitted, so let us make things run more smoothly. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. When the government first starting rolling out programs to help Canadians get through this pandemic, we raised points about some flaws and gaps in the program. The government assured Canadians that it would fix these programs as time went on. Well, Canadians are suffering through both the health and the economic consequences of the lockdown related to the coronavirus. Here we are the first day of June and the government still has yet to address the flaws in its programs; it is still letting so many Canadians down. I have a series of very straightforward and specific questions. On April 20 we raised with the Minister of Finance the issue of companies that had purchased another company not being able to demonstrate revenue loss, and therefore not being eligible for the wage subsidy, even though both companies separately would have been able to do just that. We have raised it several times now. I would like to ask the government when it will be fixing this unnecessarily rigid aspect of the wage subsidy program.Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, I believe that a company with a fantastic Canadian history in the member's riding, Brandt Tractor, which pioneered the manufacturing of augers in Canada, is particularly affected by this. It is very important for us that the wage subsidy be available to as many Canadian companies as possible. It helps to keep employees connected to their businesses. Now, there are always some specific issues that can make it challenging for particular companies. I know that in the case of Brandt Tractor, for example, officials from the Ministry of Finance are directly in touch with the company to work on its issues.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, that's the same answer we got last week. It's the same answer we got two weeks before that, and it's the same answer we have been getting from day one. This is a very simple question. The government has indicated that it will change this program to allow for amalgamations. The solution is very simple. It is to also allow for those companies that have undergone acquisitions. This is a very specific question: Will the government fix this program and allow for companies that have acquired another company to still access the wage subsidy programHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, let me just point out that the wage subsidy program is working extremely well for many, many Canadian companies and for many, many Canadians who are able to keep their jobs thanks to the program. More than two million Canadian workers are today benefiting from the wage subsidy program. By any measure that is a successful program. Now, for sure there are always going to be companies which, because of specifics in their history, need specific attention, and thatThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, reports indicate that up to half of the money allocated for the wage subsidy is going unspent, precisely because this government has left in unnecessarily rigid barriers for companies to be able to access it. It's a yes-or-no question, Morneau: Mr. Chair, we know that, with a responsible reopening of the economy, we have to look at our programs to make sure that we are keeping and protecting people. That continues to be our approach. We will look at changes and improvements. In that way, we will continue our responsible reopening of the economy.The Chair: We are going to take a break so that our employees can change shifts without jeopardizing their health. While we have a few seconds, I would also like to remind members to address their questions to the chair, not directly to the ministers.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC) ): We'll now carry on. We'll go to Mr. Easter in Malpeque.Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for Brampton North. Today, June 1, under the auspices of the Food and Agriculture Organization, we celebrate World Milk Day. World Milk Day allows us to emphasize the importance of milk as a global food, its benefits for our health as well as our nutrition; and to celebrate the dairy sector, from the primary producers to the processors who ensure that our many high-quality dairy products get to the marketplace. Canadians are fortunate to have a thriving dairy sector that, under supply management, provides high-quality products at reasonable prices to consumers. Even under supply management though, dairy farmers have found themselves facing difficult challenges as a result of recent trade agreements and sudden market shocks as a result of the pandemic. Mr. Chair, to acknowledge World Milk Day, I'd love to be able to raise a glass of wholesome white or chocolate milk, but we can't do that. On the other hand, I must ask the Minister of Agriculture what the government is doing to

What was the discussion about amendments of policies on protecting workers'and pensioners'rights

The opposition party raised the problem that thousands of Canadian workers were exposed and vulnerable, and might experience bankruptcy anytime. The opposition party also stated that the changes the government made last year to bankruptcy insolvency laws were largely cosmetic and would not protect workers'and pensioners'livelihoods once bankruptcy hits. The Minister explained that they were continuing to absolutely ensure that pensions are protected.

that Bill C-7 removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime, including the mandatory 10-day waiting period. Mr. Chair, these people who are signing this petition would like to see an improvement in assisted living, not assisted dying.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Zahid.Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to present an e-petition signed by over 40 people. It asks that the Government of Canada recognize the Republic of Somaliland as an autonomous state that may result in foreign investments, direct access of development aid, foreign aid for disaster relief and infrastructure development investment loans.The Chair: Now we'll proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. Each statement will be for a maximum of one minute. I remind members that if they exceed that time limit, they will be interrupted. Our first statement goes to Monsieur El-Khoury.Mr. Fayal El-Khoury (LavalLes les, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I thank the government for the way it has managed this global crisis and its impact on Canadians. It has acted in a robust, rapid and very effective way. Our Prime Minister has been awarded the medal of honour, courage and humanity worldwide. Canada is one of the few countries that has acted in the best interests of its citizens and maintained their dignity in these uncertain times. While addressing Canadians, our right honourable Prime Minister showed us leadership, the importance of transparency, and integrity. He kept us united. His top priority was saving lives, along with finding realistic solutions regarding the economic impact on our daily life. Because of his outstanding leadership, we're admired across the world, which is another distinguished privilege of being Canadian. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Epp.Mr. Dave Epp (Chatham-KentLeamington, CPC): COVID-19 has emptied food the recovery, will this government be increasing funding to build or buy the housing needed to address homelessnessHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, very early in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic, our government provided $157. 5 million directly to 51 community entities to respond directly to the needs of homeless Canadians. We also provided $50 million in additional money to women's shelters. We are continuing with the national housing strategy. We are providing supports to communities and NGOs, as well as municipalities that are moving projects forward.Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, the federal government allocated just $1. 3 million in Reaching Home funds to my region. While the province has stepped up, it cost them $18. 5 million to purchase just one hotel in Victoria. The federal funding is clearly inadequate. Is the government going to show some leadership and at least match the provincial fundsHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we moved very quickly. The $157. 5 million, I must note, was additional money on top of the base funding that we provide every year to address the needs of Canada's most vulnerable. In addition to that, our projects under the national housing strategy are continuing. We are providing leadership. We are trusting the community entities to make the decisions on where the funding goes and to respond in a way that meets theThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms. Collins, you have about 40 seconds left, which is time for a short question. Go ahead.Ms. Laurel Collins: The minister mentioned the national housing strategy. This government's national housing strategy reduces the level of targeted funding for lower-income households, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer. My question is simple: Coming out of the pandemic in the coming months, is the government going to increase housing funding to address the immediate Mr. Chair, since the beginning of this crisis, our priority has been to support Canadians and their health and safety. We will continue to do so, because it is important that we get through this crisis by supporting Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who was paid $360,000 U. S. by an American-funded organization after he started working with the Prime MinisterHon. Mona Fortier: Once again, Mr. Chair, it is important to talk to Canadians right now to tell them that we are putting their health and safety first. We will continue to do so. We are going through a crisis right now and we will support Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who, in his role as the principal secretary in the office of Ontario's then premier, advanced policies that now saddle Ontarians with the highest energy costs in North America Is this is the same Gerald Butts who weighed down Ontario with the world's highest subnational debt burden, all for the benefit of new green jobs that, notably, have never arrivedHon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, as we know, for the past two and a half months, we have been supporting Canadians. We have put forward an economic program to help businesses, workers and Canadians across the country. We will continue to make the health and safety of Canadians a priority.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the MP for West Nova, Mr. d'Entremont.Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Yesterday, the Minister responsible for tourism, ACOA and official languages was happy to close our national Tourism Week by announcing investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada. Where's the big clap Some hon. members: Hear, hear! Mr. Chris d'Entremont: There you go, give need, yes or noHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, I disagree with the honourable member. Our money is targeted to communities. They have community advisory boards that decide how to spend the money. If the NDP does not trust local communities to make decisions, they should say so.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I now invite the hon. member for Joliette, Mr. Ste-Marie, to take the floor. Go ahead, Mr. Ste-Marie.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Regardless of the COVID-19 pandemic, the last time I checked, we still had a democratic system and the government had to remain accountable. The government needs to present a picture of the economic situation and a picture of its overall emergency measures. Does the government intend to extend the measures over the summer If so, how will it do so The government must also present its working scenarios for the economic recovery. The government needs to be transparent. When will the government provide its economic updateHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for his questions. I agree, it is very important to be transparent and to provide the necessary information to Canadians. Every day, we announce measures, of course, but also the cost of the measures and the amount of the investments. It is very important. The challenge at the moment is the economic situation, which is very fluid. When the situation is more stable, we will have the opportunity to give an economic update.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: In my opinion, Mr. Chair, it will really be too late to do the economic update when things are more stable. We have been asking for an economic update for the past month. Even the Parliamentary Budget Officer has been urging the government to table an economic update in interference when you watch the video conference in the chamber and it's being transmitted, so let us make things run more smoothly. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. When the government first starting rolling out programs to help Canadians get through this pandemic, we raised points about some flaws and gaps in the program. The government assured Canadians that it would fix these programs as time went on. Well, Canadians are suffering through both the health and the economic consequences of the lockdown related to the coronavirus. Here we are the first day of June and the government still has yet to address the flaws in its programs; it is still letting so many Canadians down. I have a series of very straightforward and specific questions. On April 20 we raised with the Minister of Finance the issue of companies that had purchased another company not being able to demonstrate revenue loss, and therefore not being eligible for the wage subsidy, even though both companies separately would have been able to do just that. We have raised it several times now. I would like to ask the government when it will be fixing this unnecessarily rigid aspect of the wage subsidy program.Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, I believe that a company with a fantastic Canadian history in the member's riding, Brandt Tractor, which pioneered the manufacturing of augers in Canada, is particularly affected by this. It is very important

What was the debate about government providing direct financial assistance to people living with disabilities

The minister explained that the government was committed to advancing on the issues that have been identified by Canadians with disabilities and they were continuing that engagement. However, the opposition party argued that the support was delayed several times. The minister argued that they had done a lot, such as establishing the COVID-19 disability advisory group, comprising experts in disability inclusion.

a timely manner. With only three weeks left in the House before the summer, the clock is ticking. The Quebec government will table its economic update later this month. Will the federal government follow suitHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, let me confirm that we will continue to be transparent about the investments; it is very important. Of course, each day we work to make sure we have a solid grasp of the economic situation. As I said, when the situation is a little more stable, we will have the opportunity to explain our situation with an economic update.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Once again, Mr. Chair, when the situation is more stable, it will be too late to do an economic update; instead we will have to table a budget with the recovery in mind. Speaking of the recovery, the Parliamentary Budget Officer is surprised that the government is calling on the private sector for ideas for its recovery plan. Mr. Giroux points out that this government has thousands of public servants with very good ideas, and he adds that the government can also ask for the opposition parties'views. That would be a very good idea. Why is the government contracting out the development of its recovery plan to the private sectorHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would like to tell the hon. member that it is important to listen to what we are trying to do, and to listen to people's ideas and opinions, not only in Parliament, but also from our society. So we keep listening. Of course, with our approach, we will address the economic recovery in a way that will ensure we can maintain our very strong position.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, we are still surprised that the government has contracted out its recovery plan to the private not. We are committed to supporting all of the workers who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.Mr. Richard Martel: According to a survey conducted by the Universit du Qubec Trois-Rivires'research institute on small and medium size businesses, the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region would be the most affected by the economic effects of COVID-19. This is not surprising. In fact, in our region, the tourism industry generates more than $300million in economic activity, including $58million for the cruise industry alone. The $70million that you announced yesterday is a very modest start. What does the government intend to do for the tourism industry in the regionsHon. Mlanie Joly: Mr. Chair, it goes without saying that the tourism industry is indeed very much affected. That is why we are responding to their concerns and worries. We have therefore extended the emergency wage subsidy until the end of August. We are also providing the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance, as well as the $40,000loans from the Canada emergency business account. We have also just announced $70million in support for Canada's tourism sector. I am having good talks with various stakeholders in Quebec, including Martin Soucy from the Alliance de l'industrie touristique du Qubec. In addition, we are going to do our part to support the tourism sector through Economic Development Canada.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, the tourism industry in the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region is the sum of all its stakeholders. Many of these businesses are too small to receive the assistance announced by the federal government. Overly restrictive standards will prevent some tourist accommodation from welcoming guests this year, even though they will have to pay their bills every month. What does the government plan to do to help the regions most affected economicallyHon. Mlanie Joly: I thank my colleague for his important question. What he her a clap. More than $70 million will be invested to support this sector and promote Canadian destinations. Southern Ontario received $30 million, northern Ontario received $7 million and western Canada received $3. 5 million. There's nothing for Atlantic Canada yet. Knowing that we just had an announcement from the Minister of Transport that there will be no cruise ships in Atlantic Canada or anywhere in Canada this year, resulting in hundreds of millions of dollars in losses, where is the program for Atlantic CanadaHon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages): Mr. Chair, I commend my colleague for his important question. I know he's a very strong advocate for the tourism sector in Atlantic Canada, so I want to reassure him. Obviously, we want to support the tourism sector in Atlantic Canada. ACOA has a clear direction to do just that. If he has any good ideas, please let him come forward and let's have a conversation. Meanwhile, Atlantic Canada will also be supported through Destination Canada. Rather than doing marketing internationally, we will be supporting destination marketing organizations across the country, including in Atlantic Canada, to make sure that we launch this new movement to visit local.Mr. Chris d'Entremont: That would be all great if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic and you can't even cross the Nova Scotia-New Brunswick border without having to self-isolate for two weeks. It's going to make travelling, through the Maritimes at least, very difficult. In Saint John, New Brunswick, 79 cruise ships and more than 270,000 passengers will not be giving back to that local community. At home in Nova Scotia, it's about 118 or 130 vessels. In terms of a minimum financial loss, $165 million will not be generated. There will be job losses and permanent closures of restaurants and boardwalk shops. Prince Edward Island, which was expected to have a record attendance year, will lose visits of 97 ships and 154,000 passengers, and $60 million to the province's economy will be lost. Mr. Chair, my question to the minister is this: Who is ACOA going to be working with, and what kinds of programs are going to be available to help them through this very difficult yearHon. Mlanie Joly: I agree with my colleague. The sector is really impacted by the pandemic and the economic crisis. It is a bit like the canary in the coal mine; it was the first impacted, and definitely it is still impacted. That's why we are in close contact with tourism leaders and operators across the country. Again, recently I had good conversations with the chambers of commerce all across Atlantic Canada, including Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador for the tourism sector. There is money for the tourism sector and tourism operators. They can have access to the wage subsidy. They wanted to have access to it until later in the summer, and it has been extended to the end of August. They have access to the rent relief program, the CEBA and ACOA funding. As mentioned many times in this chamber, Mr. Chair, if my colleague has clear examples to provide me, let's work together. Let's make sure the money flows to these people, because they need it.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have only about a minute left, Mr. d'Entremont.Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Mr. Chair, like the minister, last week, I spoke with Simon-Pierre Poulin, the director of Le Franco newspaper in Alberta, about the Sauvons Saint-Jean movement. He asked me why we could not continue to work on official languages and on modernizing the act even though Parliament is describing is the reason we are currently working on a game plan. We really want to be able to reach these small businesses, of which there are many in SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean, in Quebec and across the country. That is why the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have committed an additional $1billion to help those businesses that fall through the cracks. We need to respond now, and I will have more to say about it in the next few days.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, I was very disappointed to see that we had lost asparagus crops due to a labour shortage. When I spoke with the blueberry growers in my area, they told me they were concerned that the same thing could happen to them. Some employers to whom we granted summer positions are not finding students to fill them. When will there be incentives to encourage people to work rather than disincentivesHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we believe that the flexibilities we have introduced to the Canada summer jobs program will enable more employers to use it, including more businesses, as well as help young people to acquire the necessary skills and benefits from this really important program.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Martel, you have about a minute left.Mr. Richard Martel: Mr. Chair, on May19, the government said that it was studying several solutions to help business owners and entrepreneurs who operate their business using a personal bank account. When will the Canada emergency business account be available to themHon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Mr. Chair, small businesses are the heart of all of our communities, and we've been working really hard to help them. Almost 650,000 small businesses have received the loan, which is really helping with those

How was the tourism industry in Canada being affected, and what was the government's implementations to ease the loss

The opposition party stated that the government announced investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada, but it was not enough. There would be job losses and permanent closures of restaurants and boardwalk shops. The Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages explained that those who had experienced losses would be able to have access to the wage subsidy, the rent relief program, the CEBA and ACOA funding. Also, another minister explained that the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance had committed an additional $1 billion to help those businesses that fall through the cracks.

a timely manner. With only three weeks left in the House before the summer, the clock is ticking. The Quebec government will table its economic update later this month. Will the federal government follow suitHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, let me confirm that we will continue to be transparent about the investments; it is very important. Of course, each day we work to make sure we have a solid grasp of the economic situation. As I said, when the situation is a little more stable, we will have the opportunity to explain our situation with an economic update.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Once again, Mr. Chair, when the situation is more stable, it will be too late to do an economic update; instead we will have to table a budget with the recovery in mind. Speaking of the recovery, the Parliamentary Budget Officer is surprised that the government is calling on the private sector for ideas for its recovery plan. Mr. Giroux points out that this government has thousands of public servants with very good ideas, and he adds that the government can also ask for the opposition parties'views. That would be a very good idea. Why is the government contracting out the development of its recovery plan to the private sectorHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would like to tell the hon. member that it is important to listen to what we are trying to do, and to listen to people's ideas and opinions, not only in Parliament, but also from our society. So we keep listening. Of course, with our approach, we will address the economic recovery in a way that will ensure we can maintain our very strong position.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, we are still surprised that the government has contracted out its recovery plan to the private the recovery, will this government be increasing funding to build or buy the housing needed to address homelessnessHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, very early in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic, our government provided $157. 5 million directly to 51 community entities to respond directly to the needs of homeless Canadians. We also provided $50 million in additional money to women's shelters. We are continuing with the national housing strategy. We are providing supports to communities and NGOs, as well as municipalities that are moving projects forward.Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, the federal government allocated just $1. 3 million in Reaching Home funds to my region. While the province has stepped up, it cost them $18. 5 million to purchase just one hotel in Victoria. The federal funding is clearly inadequate. Is the government going to show some leadership and at least match the provincial fundsHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we moved very quickly. The $157. 5 million, I must note, was additional money on top of the base funding that we provide every year to address the needs of Canada's most vulnerable. In addition to that, our projects under the national housing strategy are continuing. We are providing leadership. We are trusting the community entities to make the decisions on where the funding goes and to respond in a way that meets theThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms. Collins, you have about 40 seconds left, which is time for a short question. Go ahead.Ms. Laurel Collins: The minister mentioned the national housing strategy. This government's national housing strategy reduces the level of targeted funding for lower-income households, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer. My question is simple: Coming out of the pandemic in the coming months, is the government going to increase housing funding to address the immediate Mr. Chair, since the beginning of this crisis, our priority has been to support Canadians and their health and safety. We will continue to do so, because it is important that we get through this crisis by supporting Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who was paid $360,000 U. S. by an American-funded organization after he started working with the Prime MinisterHon. Mona Fortier: Once again, Mr. Chair, it is important to talk to Canadians right now to tell them that we are putting their health and safety first. We will continue to do so. We are going through a crisis right now and we will support Canadians.Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who, in his role as the principal secretary in the office of Ontario's then premier, advanced policies that now saddle Ontarians with the highest energy costs in North America Is this is the same Gerald Butts who weighed down Ontario with the world's highest subnational debt burden, all for the benefit of new green jobs that, notably, have never arrivedHon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, as we know, for the past two and a half months, we have been supporting Canadians. We have put forward an economic program to help businesses, workers and Canadians across the country. We will continue to make the health and safety of Canadians a priority.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the MP for West Nova, Mr. d'Entremont.Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Yesterday, the Minister responsible for tourism, ACOA and official languages was happy to close our national Tourism Week by announcing investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada. Where's the big clap Some hon. members: Hear, hear! Mr. Chris d'Entremont: There you go, give sector. The sooner the government tables its recovery plan, the better. Businesses and individuals would start gaining confidence in the economy again. It would help them to loosen the purse strings and be assured that there will be economic life after the pandemic. Again, that is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer says. Can the government tell us when it will table its recovery planHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we feel it is very important to consider what we need to do in each phase of our recovery. At this time, it is necessary to consider the public health situation and the gradual reopening of our economy. That is why we feel our approach aims for a safe recovery. Obviously, by gathering more information in Phase3, we will be able to consider more than one approach to recovery.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds left.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Thank you. I understand that the exact date for tabling the recovery plan may be difficult to determine at this time. Can the minister tell us whether he currently intends to table the recovery plan in a month ending in ber If not, will it be before or after thatHon. Bill Morneau: We continue to work with the provinces on an approach to determine the timing of the recovery, and we are also listening to our colleagues in Parliament, of course.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to the honourable member for Abbotsford, Mr. Fast.Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Prime Minister continues to pander to the Communist regime in China. We were shocked to hear that his own Minister of Digital Government used WeChat, a Chinese social media site, to raise funds to sue a Global News reporterfor what It was for is to support workers across Canada and Quebec, to help them keep their jobs and allow them to stay connected to their workplace. That is what we've done. More than 2million Canadians are benefiting from this important and truly essential program for our country. We are proud of it.Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr. Chair, does the Deputy Prime Minister think it is moral, fair and honest that employees who have lost their jobs are subsidizing an emergency wage subsidy for the Liberal Party of Canada out of their taxesHon. Chrystia Freeland: Our programs do not discriminate. They are there to help all workers. The hon. member talked about businesses and sectors that need more help. We agree. There is still a lot to do, but we want to work with all theThe Chair: Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr. Chair, many struggling businesses in Quebec don't have access to the Canada emergency wage subsidy because they don't meet the eligibility criteria. Many tourism and municipal organizations, among others, don't have access to this wage subsidy. However, it's very clear that the Liberal Party qualifies according to the program criteria. Does the Deputy Prime Minister really think it's moral for her party to benefit from the emergency wage subsidy when it has the financial means to pay its own employeesHon. Chrystia Freeland: I thank the hon. member for her question. I agree that there is still a lot to do. We are ready, and we are taking action. However, it's important to point out that our government has already done a lot to support Canadians. We've spent $152billion in direct support measures to Canadians. More than eightmillion people are benefiting from the CERB, and more than twomillionThe Chair: Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr. Chair, what I understand is not

How was the government going to deal with overwhelming federal debt

The minister placed assurance on coming out with a broader plan once the pandemic situation became more stable economically. At the same time, coming into this pandemic in a strong fiscal position with the lowest amount of debt among the G7 countries gave the government opportunities to invest on behalf of Canadians, and they would continue to take that approach. And the minister promised that there would not be higher taxes.

a timely manner. With only three weeks left in the House before the summer, the clock is ticking. The Quebec government will table its economic update later this month. Will the federal government follow suitHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, let me confirm that we will continue to be transparent about the investments; it is very important. Of course, each day we work to make sure we have a solid grasp of the economic situation. As I said, when the situation is a little more stable, we will have the opportunity to explain our situation with an economic update.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Once again, Mr. Chair, when the situation is more stable, it will be too late to do an economic update; instead we will have to table a budget with the recovery in mind. Speaking of the recovery, the Parliamentary Budget Officer is surprised that the government is calling on the private sector for ideas for its recovery plan. Mr. Giroux points out that this government has thousands of public servants with very good ideas, and he adds that the government can also ask for the opposition parties'views. That would be a very good idea. Why is the government contracting out the development of its recovery plan to the private sectorHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would like to tell the hon. member that it is important to listen to what we are trying to do, and to listen to people's ideas and opinions, not only in Parliament, but also from our society. So we keep listening. Of course, with our approach, we will address the economic recovery in a way that will ensure we can maintain our very strong position.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, we are still surprised that the government has contracted out its recovery plan to the private said that farmers needed to make better use of existing support. When will the Minister of Agriculture listen to what the farmers are saying so they can actually use the existing programsHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, I would like to remind everyone that we have put in place certain measures to improve access to AgriStability. We have also significantly improved the AgriRecovery program. Over the past few years, this program amounted to about $15million. It is now $100million for pork and beef producers alone, not counting the $77. 5million for food processors.Mr. Larry Maguire: Livestock producers in my riding and several across Canada are still waiting for the Minister of Agriculture's promise for an AgriRecovery program. When will the Minister of Agriculture stop rubbing salt in the farmers'wounds and provide the rest of the story she has been saying is on its way for over a month now in her AgriRecovery promiseHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, we have committed $50million to beef producers and $50million to pork producers through the AgriRecovery program. Here is how the program works: the federal government contributes up to60% and then the provinces implement it how they see fit.Mr. Larry Maguire: The funding announced by the Minister of Agriculture for the livestock industry was insufficient, and what was promised has not been delivered. This has caused hogs to be euthanized and over 100,000 feeder cattle to become overweight. The industry is in a crisis. How many livestock producers need to go bankrupt before they get the help they deserveHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, once again, we have significantly increased the amounts available through AgriRecovery. It is $50million for beef producers and $50million for pork producers. These programs are administered by the provinces. There is also $77. 5million for processors.The Chair: Ms. Chabot, you have the sector. The sooner the government tables its recovery plan, the better. Businesses and individuals would start gaining confidence in the economy again. It would help them to loosen the purse strings and be assured that there will be economic life after the pandemic. Again, that is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer says. Can the government tell us when it will table its recovery planHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we feel it is very important to consider what we need to do in each phase of our recovery. At this time, it is necessary to consider the public health situation and the gradual reopening of our economy. That is why we feel our approach aims for a safe recovery. Obviously, by gathering more information in Phase3, we will be able to consider more than one approach to recovery.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds left.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Thank you. I understand that the exact date for tabling the recovery plan may be difficult to determine at this time. Can the minister tell us whether he currently intends to table the recovery plan in a month ending in ber If not, will it be before or after thatHon. Bill Morneau: We continue to work with the provinces on an approach to determine the timing of the recovery, and we are also listening to our colleagues in Parliament, of course.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to the honourable member for Abbotsford, Mr. Fast.Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Prime Minister continues to pander to the Communist regime in China. We were shocked to hear that his own Minister of Digital Government used WeChat, a Chinese social media site, to raise funds to sue a Global News reporterfor what It was for very excited about the new phase of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We have Michael Sabia there as the new board chair. We need to move forward onThe Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Chong.Hon. Michael Chong (WellingtonHalton Hills, CPC): Thank you, Chair. Parliament's now been suspended for three months, since Friday, March 13. Will the government commit to reopening the House of Commons with its full powers, with social distancing, on Monday, September 21The Chair: The honourable minister.Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): Mr. Chair, as my colleague knows, we're meeting here four days a week, with questions on any topic for an hour and 35 minutes instead of 45 minutes a day. Democracy is as important for us as it is for the opposition.Hon. Michael Chong: Mr. Chair, this committee is neutered. It has no powers to introduce supply day motions, no powers to test government confidence, no powers to do the usual things that Parliament does. At times of crisis, the bedrock principles of rule of law and democracy are tested, and our democratic principles are buckling under the pressure from this government. They came to office promising greater transparency, but they broke almost every one of their promises. They broke their promise on electoral reform. They appointed an anti-Conservative organization, Unifor, to the media bailout fund. In the last parliament, they tried to give the PMO control over this legislature in Motion No. 6, and in the last election, they rigged the leaders'debates in their favour, and now they have suspended Parliament. Instead of this neutered committee that meets for only a few days with a few members, will the government commit to the full re-opening of this House with all its powers with social distancing on Monday, September 21Hon. Pablo is sitting in a different configuration. Unfortunately, I had to explain to him that many restrictions were associated with the current format of this fake Parliament. The pandemic is also threatening the protection of French in minority communities. The Liberal government made a commitment to modernize the Official Languages Act in the first six months of its mandate. How will it proceedHon. Mlanie Joly: Mr. Chair, it goes without saying that our two official languages are important and that, when it comes to language rights, we must always be on guard and protect what we have achieved. As for Campus Saint-Jean, I am very aware of the issue. I had the opportunity to speak with my two counterparts in Alberta late Friday afternoon to tell them about our concerns and the need to protect the institution from drastic cuts. That was the first point. The second point is the modernization of the Official Languages Act. I have the same concerns as my colleague. Clearly, we must continue the conversations and find the right solutions. Finally, we must be there to protect our language rights. If the member has good ideas, he can come to me to discuss them.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for ChicoutimiLe Fjord has the floor.Mr. Richard Martel (ChicoutimiLe Fjord, CPC): Mr. Chair, some people for whom the 15weeks of sickness benefits were not enough before the COVID-19crisis now have to exhaust their regular employment insurance benefits before they are entitled to the CERB. Today, I would like to know whether they will be able to exhaust their weeks of eligibility for the CERB after October3.Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we ensured that those who switched over to the Canada emergency response benefit would be covered by it, whether they were EI eligible or

What was the debate over the economic recovery plan

The opposition party stressed that the government needed to present a picture of the economic situation and a picture of its overall emergency measures. The minister explained that they felt that it was very important to consider what that need to do in each phase of the recovery. Thus, they would not announce an overall recovery plan any sooner.

have the honour to table, in both official languages, a report entitled" Democracy Matters, Debates Count: A report on the 2019 Leaders'Debates Commission and the future of debates in Canada. Mr. Chair, on behalf of all of us, I want to thank the Right Honourable David Johnston for his continued service.The Chair: Good. We'll now proceed to the presenting of petitions, for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that you please come to the front and drop off your certificate at the table once the petition has been presented. In presenting petitions, the first presenter today is Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to be presenting a petition in support of Bill S-204. This is a bill in the Senate, put forward by Senator Salma Ataullahjan. It would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not been consent by the donor. It also creates a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organ harvesting and trafficking. This bill is designed to confront and address the horrific practice by which, in certain casesfor instance, inside Chinaminority communities or dissidents may be targeted and have their organs removed as they're killed and used for transplantation. Petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204, and they want to see it passed as soon as possible.The Chair: Our next petition will go to Mr. Viersen.Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace RiverWestlock, CPC): Mr. Chair, I am presenting a petition today signed by Canadians who are concerned a timely manner. With only three weeks left in the House before the summer, the clock is ticking. The Quebec government will table its economic update later this month. Will the federal government follow suitHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, let me confirm that we will continue to be transparent about the investments; it is very important. Of course, each day we work to make sure we have a solid grasp of the economic situation. As I said, when the situation is a little more stable, we will have the opportunity to explain our situation with an economic update.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Once again, Mr. Chair, when the situation is more stable, it will be too late to do an economic update; instead we will have to table a budget with the recovery in mind. Speaking of the recovery, the Parliamentary Budget Officer is surprised that the government is calling on the private sector for ideas for its recovery plan. Mr. Giroux points out that this government has thousands of public servants with very good ideas, and he adds that the government can also ask for the opposition parties'views. That would be a very good idea. Why is the government contracting out the development of its recovery plan to the private sectorHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would like to tell the hon. member that it is important to listen to what we are trying to do, and to listen to people's ideas and opinions, not only in Parliament, but also from our society. So we keep listening. Of course, with our approach, we will address the economic recovery in a way that will ensure we can maintain our very strong position.Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr. Chair, we are still surprised that the government has contracted out its recovery plan to the private The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.) ): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 14thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybrid meeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Speaker's chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using their earpiece at their desk. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We'll now proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are none. Now we'll proceed to the tabling of documents. Mr. LeBlanc has a document he wants to table. Go ahead, Mr. LeBlanc.Hon. Dominic LeBlanc: Mr. Chair, I Morneau: Mr. Chair, we know that, with a responsible reopening of the economy, we have to look at our programs to make sure that we are keeping and protecting people. That continues to be our approach. We will look at changes and improvements. In that way, we will continue our responsible reopening of the economy.The Chair: We are going to take a break so that our employees can change shifts without jeopardizing their health. While we have a few seconds, I would also like to remind members to address their questions to the chair, not directly to the ministers.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC) ): We'll now carry on. We'll go to Mr. Easter in Malpeque.Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for Brampton North. Today, June 1, under the auspices of the Food and Agriculture Organization, we celebrate World Milk Day. World Milk Day allows us to emphasize the importance of milk as a global food, its benefits for our health as well as our nutrition; and to celebrate the dairy sector, from the primary producers to the processors who ensure that our many high-quality dairy products get to the marketplace. Canadians are fortunate to have a thriving dairy sector that, under supply management, provides high-quality products at reasonable prices to consumers. Even under supply management though, dairy farmers have found themselves facing difficult challenges as a result of recent trade agreements and sudden market shocks as a result of the pandemic. Mr. Chair, to acknowledge World Milk Day, I'd love to be able to raise a glass of wholesome white or chocolate milk, but we can't do that. On the other hand, I must ask the Minister of Agriculture what the government is doing to that I was talking with a man with heart, a passionate man, a man who had Quebec imprinted on his heart. Because of your decision to join the Conservative Party of Canada, I got to know you personally, and I am most grateful. I will remember our discussions on the best ways to communicate our Conservative vision to Quebeckers. I will remember our heated discussions on Quebec-Canada relations. I will remember all the passion and energy you had in the lead-up to a speech to our supporters. Michel, Canadians, Quebeckers and I will remember you forever, the great man you were, the outstanding speaker, a formidable parliamentarian, with integrity, passion, commitment and love for Quebec. I offer my sincere condolences to Anne, and to your family and friends. Rest in peace.The Chair: Mr. Dubourg, you now have the floor.Mr. Emmanuel Dubourg (Bourassa, Lib.): Mr. Chair, the murder of GeorgeFloyd in Minneapolis resonated strongly within black communities in Canada and also in the heart of Montreal North. At a time of pandemic uncertainty when members of our community find themselves on the front lines as essential workers, an event like this rekindles feelings of fear, powerlessness and injustice. It has happened once again in the UnitedStates, but we are not immune to such behaviour here, in Canada. Dear constituents of Bourassa, I know our stories, I feel with you the pain as a parent and as a black person. I know this constant fear for our children. As elected officials, we have the duty to protect your rights and to ensure harmony. We must be vigilant and work to deconstruct prejudice and discrimination.The Chair: Before continuing, I'd like to give a reminder. To avoid sound problems, members participating in person shouldn't connect to the video conference. There seems to be some

Summarize the whole meeting.

It was a heated debate between the opposition party and the ministers. The members from the opposition parties first pointed out some flaws in the government's current measures in hoping to better implement them. However, some of their suggestions were either not adopted or avoided. The opposition party also addressed their concerns towards fiscal pressure, employment market and production of personal protective equipment in the midst of the pandemic. The ministers listed a roll of policies that was either already in place or going to be. Finally, the opposition party named a few industries in Canada such as agriculture, tourism and fishing that were struck seriously by the pandemic. The ministers promised that more financial support was coming in order to engineer Canada's economy.

those two different approaches as well.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay, thank you. And just finally from me, for the time being at least, the financial situation; we've spoken about that already this morning. If you could--. If funding was injected into the system tomorrow, say, what would you spend it on What aspects would benefit from that additional fundingMeilyr Rowlands: Were you asking about something specific thereSian Gwenllian AM: In the schools themselves, if you were a school leader, what would you--Meilyr Rowlands: Oh, if I were a school leader.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. How would you use any additional funding that would flow into the schoolMeilyr Rowlands: It's difficult to make that decision, because every school is different. It is important, of course, that leaders do have the power and the ability to make those decisions themselves. But, certainly, in the short term, the type of thing I would have thought would be to prepare for the new curriculum. That means freeing up teachers to think about what the new curriculum means to them. The schools that have been a part of developing the curriculum have been in a fortunate position in that they've had plenty of time to think about this. So, it's now time--and this was the chief message of my annual report this year--for every school in Wales to start to think. Because I think that the new curriculum is truly an opportunity to take a forward step in terms of how we teach and learn within schools. But that means that time is needed for schools to think this through and, in that thinking, to contact the community, to talk to their children as well, to see what the community in its broader sense would like to see being in the new curriculum, because it's up to we've had the discussion with him. And I think we would welcome the opportunity to look at this particular period. Now, we are, of course, looking at initial teacher training, but we haven't looked at the first couple of years for many a year.Sian Gwenllian AM: Right, thank you very much. And for your information, I've commissioned a piece of work on that particular issue, and that work will be published in due course. So, I hope to have a discussion with you about that.Meilyr Rowlands: Thank you very much. Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: In terms of the secondary schools, that's where the problem lies, isn't it, rather than the primary sector. How much of a concern is it to you that children's chances of going to a secondary school that is good or better appear to be 50: 50, and that, indeed, over 10 per cent of secondary schools are judged to be failing and 12 per cent are under Estyn review How much of a concern is that to youMeilyr Rowlands: Well, it is of concern to us, of course. I hope that we will have an opportunity to talk about the positive aspects of the education system in Wales, because there are a number of good things we can report also. The primary sector, the special sector, post-16--there are many sectors that are doing well, and I think a story that's particularly positive this year is that we have seen pupil referral units improving. We have seen examples of excellent practice in that sector for the first time in many a year, and we've also seen excellent practice in independent special schools, which is also a sector--. Because these are two sectors where there are very, very vulnerable children in attendance. So, I think that's very encouraging. But, aspects around community-focused schools a lot more in a report that we'll publish in the next couple of months. So, we've kind of drilled down and looked at what some schools are doing in that area in a bit more detail.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Suzy, on this.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, just quickly. Obviously, I think we've all been to schools where the PDG is actually used to engage parents more for exactly the reasons you say. But I just wanted to interrogate the deprivation gap a little bit, because, of course, even though, as you say, there's perhaps more equity in Wales, one of the reasons for that is because our children from better-off backgrounds do less well, and considerably less well than their peers in the other parts of the United Kingdom. So, whereas their attainment gaps are pretty dreadful, that's one of the reasons--that our better-off children aren't doing as well as perhaps they might do. Is that a concern as well We don't want this rush to the middle, do weMeilyr Rowlands: I think it's essential that all groups of pupils do as well as they possibly can, absolutely. So, it's not quite the same issue, but we've talked about the importance of making sure that more able and talented children do well.Suzy Davies AM: They're not the same.Meilyr Rowlands: They're not the same, clearly, because you have more able and talented children from poor backgrounds. Differentiation is a challenge for schools, but it's absolutely essential that all groups of children do as well as they possibly can. So, in things like PISA, in terms of reading, for example, we can't just say it's that group that needs to improve--all the groups need to improve. And I think that's why something like the new curriculum gives been delivering a set curriculum, and now they've got a much more creative part in deciding for themselves how to teach something and what to teach. So, I think that is a very important part of attracting intelligent people into the profession. There are short-term things we need to do, of course, as well. I think we need to have a much more varied set of routes into teaching, so I welcome some of the part-time Open University courses, for example. So, there are lots of ways--we were talking about maybe converting people from primary into secondary, particularly in Welsh-medium, where there's a shortage. So, all those kinds of varied routes, I think, into teaching, are important as well.Suzy Davies AM: Degree apprenticeships, potentially.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, I think it's well worth exploring that. Yes.Suzy Davies AM: Lovely. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Sian Gwenllian now has some questions on secondary schools causing concern. Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. Just before going on to that, just to pick up on that last point that you made about the shortage of teachers and losing teachers during the first year of their training. Has Estyn done any themed work on that particular issue, or do you intend to do anything on that Also, looking at the financial incentives and how they compare with the situation in England, for example; do we need, perhaps, to think about financial incentives, not just for specific subjects, but for going to schools where there are particular issues, perhapsMeilyr Rowlands: Well, yes, there are currently discussions ongoing between us and the Government about working in those early years for teachers. It's possible that we will be undertaking work in the near future on that. I know that Professor Mick Waters is looking at this currently, and own. So, there are a lot of caveats to be made around the fact that that poverty gap hasn't closed, but that's not to say that schools can't do something about it, and I've suggested in the annual report a sort of a two-pronged approach. One is the new curriculum. I think there is evidence in the international research that teaching and learning, better teaching and learning, helps disadvantaged poor pupils disproportionately. So, they gain more from it that their peers. So, I think improving teaching and learning, and we discussed that earlier this morning about how the new curriculum is really all about improving the quality of teaching and learning in the classroom. So, that's one approach, and then the other approach, which I've also mentioned earlier, is having a community-focused approach to schools. The schools that do more successfully tackle the poverty gap are the schools that take that kind of approach. It means helping the pupils. It means helping their families. It's about making pupil well-being really high on the agenda. It's very difficult for children to do well in school if they've got all kinds of things happening in their background. So, it's important that schools can maybe signpost those families to other services that can support them and help them. So, it's quite a complex--. It's challenging for schools to go down this route, and I think the more help we can give schools to take that approach, the better. But the schools that do do it do benefit a lot from it. They have better engagement from parents, from the families, and that then reflects back on the work of the children.Jassa Scott: And we've just published a collection of good practice about how schools support vulnerable learners, and we'll be teasing out the

Summarize the difficulties carrying out the curriculum reform faced by secondary school.

First of all, although a number of primary schools have surplus funds, still a lot of secondary schools are in deficit and low on funds. Also recent years have seen a shortage of teachers with appropriate initial teacher training. There are concerns as well that schools in the bottom layer may find it difficult to adapt to the new curriculum and have little improvement on teaching quality.

a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their Wales than we did previously So, what are your thoughts on thatMeilyr Rowlands: I think there is a fairly clear good news story here. PISA shows improvements and a lot of that can be attributed, I think, to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. I think there's much less predictability in that work; you can't approach it in a formulaic way, either the pupils or the teachers in terms of teaching it. There's much more problem solving. It's about applying what you've learnt in the core mathematics lessons to new situations in subjects across the curriculum. I think that that GCSE numeracy has built on the work that's been done lower down on the national numeracy framework, which has the same philosophy of applying that mathematics knowledge in a problem-solving situation. That has been a really good news story, really.Dawn Bowden AM: That's something to be positive about, anyway. That's good. My final question, Chair, is: in your view, to what extent is Wales on track to meet the target of 500 points in each of the domains in the 2020-1 cycle for PISAMeilyr Rowlands: I think that that target is somewhat arbitrary, but assuming that we continue on this journey that we are on--the current change programme of the new curriculum and so forth--I think we would expect to see those improvements we've seen in science and in mathematics to continue. We've talked about reading and I think we will be giving more attention to reading. I think the education system more generally, hopefully, will give more attention to reading. So, I would hope to see improvements there as well. The only other thing I would add is that there is some research that indicates or suggests that the effect of schools is greater on mathematics and science than on you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacyMeilyr Rowlands: I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets--we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report--that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children--it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model we've had the discussion with him. And I think we would welcome the opportunity to look at this particular period. Now, we are, of course, looking at initial teacher training, but we haven't looked at the first couple of years for many a year.Sian Gwenllian AM: Right, thank you very much. And for your information, I've commissioned a piece of work on that particular issue, and that work will be published in due course. So, I hope to have a discussion with you about that.Meilyr Rowlands: Thank you very much. Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: In terms of the secondary schools, that's where the problem lies, isn't it, rather than the primary sector. How much of a concern is it to you that children's chances of going to a secondary school that is good or better appear to be 50: 50, and that, indeed, over 10 per cent of secondary schools are judged to be failing and 12 per cent are under Estyn review How much of a concern is that to youMeilyr Rowlands: Well, it is of concern to us, of course. I hope that we will have an opportunity to talk about the positive aspects of the education system in Wales, because there are a number of good things we can report also. The primary sector, the special sector, post-16--there are many sectors that are doing well, and I think a story that's particularly positive this year is that we have seen pupil referral units improving. We have seen examples of excellent practice in that sector for the first time in many a year, and we've also seen excellent practice in independent special schools, which is also a sector--. Because these are two sectors where there are very, very vulnerable children in attendance. So, I think that's very encouraging. But,

What did Meilyr Rowlands think of the shortage of teachers

Meilyr Rowlands thought it was a challenge to recruit new teachers and improve the initial training. In the long term, he believed that education should become more attractive for young people and more mature people to go into, while in the short term, looking at initial teacher training would be the top priority.

reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their Wales than we did previously So, what are your thoughts on thatMeilyr Rowlands: I think there is a fairly clear good news story here. PISA shows improvements and a lot of that can be attributed, I think, to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. I think there's much less predictability in that work; you can't approach it in a formulaic way, either the pupils or the teachers in terms of teaching it. There's much more problem solving. It's about applying what you've learnt in the core mathematics lessons to new situations in subjects across the curriculum. I think that that GCSE numeracy has built on the work that's been done lower down on the national numeracy framework, which has the same philosophy of applying that mathematics knowledge in a problem-solving situation. That has been a really good news story, really.Dawn Bowden AM: That's something to be positive about, anyway. That's good. My final question, Chair, is: in your view, to what extent is Wales on track to meet the target of 500 points in each of the domains in the 2020-1 cycle for PISAMeilyr Rowlands: I think that that target is somewhat arbitrary, but assuming that we continue on this journey that we are on--the current change programme of the new curriculum and so forth--I think we would expect to see those improvements we've seen in science and in mathematics to continue. We've talked about reading and I think we will be giving more attention to reading. I think the education system more generally, hopefully, will give more attention to reading. So, I would hope to see improvements there as well. The only other thing I would add is that there is some research that indicates or suggests that the effect of schools is greater on mathematics and science than on you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacyMeilyr Rowlands: I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets--we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report--that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children--it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model those two different approaches as well.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay, thank you. And just finally from me, for the time being at least, the financial situation; we've spoken about that already this morning. If you could--. If funding was injected into the system tomorrow, say, what would you spend it on What aspects would benefit from that additional fundingMeilyr Rowlands: Were you asking about something specific thereSian Gwenllian AM: In the schools themselves, if you were a school leader, what would you--Meilyr Rowlands: Oh, if I were a school leader.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. How would you use any additional funding that would flow into the schoolMeilyr Rowlands: It's difficult to make that decision, because every school is different. It is important, of course, that leaders do have the power and the ability to make those decisions themselves. But, certainly, in the short term, the type of thing I would have thought would be to prepare for the new curriculum. That means freeing up teachers to think about what the new curriculum means to them. The schools that have been a part of developing the curriculum have been in a fortunate position in that they've had plenty of time to think about this. So, it's now time--and this was the chief message of my annual report this year--for every school in Wales to start to think. Because I think that the new curriculum is truly an opportunity to take a forward step in terms of how we teach and learn within schools. But that means that time is needed for schools to think this through and, in that thinking, to contact the community, to talk to their children as well, to see what the community in its broader sense would like to see being in the new curriculum, because it's up to we've had the discussion with him. And I think we would welcome the opportunity to look at this particular period. Now, we are, of course, looking at initial teacher training, but we haven't looked at the first couple of years for many a year.Sian Gwenllian AM: Right, thank you very much. And for your information, I've commissioned a piece of work on that particular issue, and that work will be published in due course. So, I hope to have a discussion with you about that.Meilyr Rowlands: Thank you very much. Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: In terms of the secondary schools, that's where the problem lies, isn't it, rather than the primary sector. How much of a concern is it to you that children's chances of going to a secondary school that is good or better appear to be 50: 50, and that, indeed, over 10 per cent of secondary schools are judged to be failing and 12 per cent are under Estyn review How much of a concern is that to youMeilyr Rowlands: Well, it is of concern to us, of course. I hope that we will have an opportunity to talk about the positive aspects of the education system in Wales, because there are a number of good things we can report also. The primary sector, the special sector, post-16--there are many sectors that are doing well, and I think a story that's particularly positive this year is that we have seen pupil referral units improving. We have seen examples of excellent practice in that sector for the first time in many a year, and we've also seen excellent practice in independent special schools, which is also a sector--. Because these are two sectors where there are very, very vulnerable children in attendance. So, I think that's very encouraging. But,

What did Meilyr Rowlands say about the additional challenge for secondary schools

The children in secondary schools themselves are older and therefore have greater challenges. As a result, it's also more difficult to engage with the parents of older children than younger children.

reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their that a lot of this performance data was just for Estyn, but actually it never has been. When we inspect, we look at a whole range of aspects of the work. We look at standards, we look at teaching and learning in the classroom, we look at well-being, we look at care support and guidance, we look at leadership, we look at all of these things, and we look at it based on first-hand evidence--what we actually see in the classroom. So, we're quite happy to continue to inspect schools, and we in fact support having less emphasis on data because, although data is useful, and we hope that schools will continue to analyse their data and use that data to help them self-improve and self-evaluate, we don't actually need it and it has actually created a bit of a high-stakes culture. So, I think stepping back from that culture is a good idea.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you all for your attendance As usual, you'll receive a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. But thank you very much again for coming in this morning.Meilyr Rowlands: Diolch yn fawr--thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a ministerial update on the emotional and mental health of children and young people in Wales--next steps for'Mind over matter'. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government regarding teachers'pay and pensions, and paper to note 3 is a letter to the Minister for Education from us regarding the school funding review. Are Members happy to note those Thank you. Can I then propose under Standing Order 17. 42 that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting Are Members content Great. Okay. Thank you. those two different approaches as well.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay, thank you. And just finally from me, for the time being at least, the financial situation; we've spoken about that already this morning. If you could--. If funding was injected into the system tomorrow, say, what would you spend it on What aspects would benefit from that additional fundingMeilyr Rowlands: Were you asking about something specific thereSian Gwenllian AM: In the schools themselves, if you were a school leader, what would you--Meilyr Rowlands: Oh, if I were a school leader.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. How would you use any additional funding that would flow into the schoolMeilyr Rowlands: It's difficult to make that decision, because every school is different. It is important, of course, that leaders do have the power and the ability to make those decisions themselves. But, certainly, in the short term, the type of thing I would have thought would be to prepare for the new curriculum. That means freeing up teachers to think about what the new curriculum means to them. The schools that have been a part of developing the curriculum have been in a fortunate position in that they've had plenty of time to think about this. So, it's now time--and this was the chief message of my annual report this year--for every school in Wales to start to think. Because I think that the new curriculum is truly an opportunity to take a forward step in terms of how we teach and learn within schools. But that means that time is needed for schools to think this through and, in that thinking, to contact the community, to talk to their children as well, to see what the community in its broader sense would like to see being in the new curriculum, because it's up to approach of supporting those schools is important. I do believe that you're right to say that there are funding implications to supporting those schools. I don't think it's enormous, but certainly there's a certain amount of funding that is needed to offer those schools that support.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Janet.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Chair. The Minister recently told the committee that a number of recent Estyn inspections of local authorities'education services have been disappointing. Do you agree That, of course, is based on the inspections carried out under the current cycle.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, indeed. I think we've done nine inspections of local authorities'education services so far this cycle. We've got another two this academic year. We'll have done half of them by the end of the academic year. We'll then evaluate how things have gone. But of those nine we've put three into category--we've identified them as causing concern--and they're Pembrokeshire, Powys and Wrexham. So, we do have concerns about those authorities. So, we'll be supporting those authorities, moving forward. But I think a common factor in those inspections was secondary schools. So, we've talking quite a bit about secondary schools this morning, and I think that, again, is a factor in those local authorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. You say that the proportion of secondary schools causing concern is a challenge for several local authorities and for the system as a whole. Which local authorities are these--you've probably named them all--and have these been inspected yet under the current cycleMeilyr Rowlands: I think you're taking about three secondary schools in a category in Pembrokeshire, Wrexham and Torfaen. So, we've inspected Pembrokeshire and Wrexham already, but we haven't inspected Torfaen yet. And two schools in a category in Powys, Newport and Gwynedd. And we've inspected Powys and Newport, we've had the discussion with him. And I think we would welcome the opportunity to look at this particular period. Now, we are, of course, looking at initial teacher training, but we haven't looked at the first couple of years for many a year.Sian Gwenllian AM: Right, thank you very much. And for your information, I've commissioned a piece of work on that particular issue, and that work will be published in due course. So, I hope to have a discussion with you about that.Meilyr Rowlands: Thank you very much. Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: In terms of the secondary schools, that's where the problem lies, isn't it, rather than the primary sector. How much of a concern is it to you that children's chances of going to a secondary school that is good or better appear to be 50: 50, and that, indeed, over 10 per cent of secondary schools are judged to be failing and 12 per cent are under Estyn review How much of a concern is that to youMeilyr Rowlands: Well, it is of concern to us, of course. I hope that we will have an opportunity to talk about the positive aspects of the education system in Wales, because there are a number of good things we can report also. The primary sector, the special sector, post-16--there are many sectors that are doing well, and I think a story that's particularly positive this year is that we have seen pupil referral units improving. We have seen examples of excellent practice in that sector for the first time in many a year, and we've also seen excellent practice in independent special schools, which is also a sector--. Because these are two sectors where there are very, very vulnerable children in attendance. So, I think that's very encouraging. But,

What was Sian Gwenllian's concern about the schools in the bottom layer

There were 12 percent of secondary schools under Estonian review and 11 percent of them were in special measures. He worried that these schools lacked enough support and fundings to adapt to the new curriculum reform and face greater difficulties.

a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their those two different approaches as well.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay, thank you. And just finally from me, for the time being at least, the financial situation; we've spoken about that already this morning. If you could--. If funding was injected into the system tomorrow, say, what would you spend it on What aspects would benefit from that additional fundingMeilyr Rowlands: Were you asking about something specific thereSian Gwenllian AM: In the schools themselves, if you were a school leader, what would you--Meilyr Rowlands: Oh, if I were a school leader.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. How would you use any additional funding that would flow into the schoolMeilyr Rowlands: It's difficult to make that decision, because every school is different. It is important, of course, that leaders do have the power and the ability to make those decisions themselves. But, certainly, in the short term, the type of thing I would have thought would be to prepare for the new curriculum. That means freeing up teachers to think about what the new curriculum means to them. The schools that have been a part of developing the curriculum have been in a fortunate position in that they've had plenty of time to think about this. So, it's now time--and this was the chief message of my annual report this year--for every school in Wales to start to think. Because I think that the new curriculum is truly an opportunity to take a forward step in terms of how we teach and learn within schools. But that means that time is needed for schools to think this through and, in that thinking, to contact the community, to talk to their children as well, to see what the community in its broader sense would like to see being in the new curriculum, because it's up to own. So, there are a lot of caveats to be made around the fact that that poverty gap hasn't closed, but that's not to say that schools can't do something about it, and I've suggested in the annual report a sort of a two-pronged approach. One is the new curriculum. I think there is evidence in the international research that teaching and learning, better teaching and learning, helps disadvantaged poor pupils disproportionately. So, they gain more from it that their peers. So, I think improving teaching and learning, and we discussed that earlier this morning about how the new curriculum is really all about improving the quality of teaching and learning in the classroom. So, that's one approach, and then the other approach, which I've also mentioned earlier, is having a community-focused approach to schools. The schools that do more successfully tackle the poverty gap are the schools that take that kind of approach. It means helping the pupils. It means helping their families. It's about making pupil well-being really high on the agenda. It's very difficult for children to do well in school if they've got all kinds of things happening in their background. So, it's important that schools can maybe signpost those families to other services that can support them and help them. So, it's quite a complex--. It's challenging for schools to go down this route, and I think the more help we can give schools to take that approach, the better. But the schools that do do it do benefit a lot from it. They have better engagement from parents, from the families, and that then reflects back on the work of the children.Jassa Scott: And we've just published a collection of good practice about how schools support vulnerable learners, and we'll be teasing out the Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please No. Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our scrutiny session on Estyn's annual report 2018-19. I'm very pleased to welcome Meilyr Rowlands, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector, Estyn; Jassa Scott, strategic director at Estyn; and Claire Morgan, strategic director at Estyn. Thank you all for attending. We're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. We'll go straight into questions from Suzy Davies.Suzy Davies AM: Bore da. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for the papers upfront, in which you say that the most striking feature of the education system, looking forward, of course is the curriculum and the change that that's bringing. How can we be sure that, during this period of change, standards don't slip And also, from the point of view of scrutiny, will we be back in a situation where we're being told,'You can't compare one set of results against the previous year's results, because of the nature of the change'Meilyr Rowlands: Bore da, bawb. Thank you for the invitation to come here. I think that's a good question. I think any kind of major educational reform has got risks attached to it, particularly if those changes were made too quickly. I think this process of reform has been going on in the background for a few years now, so I think there is a track record of standards and provision not slipping. We've seen small incremental improvements. So, overall, I think we can be fairly confident that standards won't slip during this period of preparation.Suzy Davies AM: Can I just ask: is that based on your evidence around primary

What did Jassa Scott talk about the work of regional consortia

Jassa Scott believed they had prioritized the work that schools were doing around literacy and numeracy, yet the support for schools to develop digital competence were a bit weaker. Also their support for secondary schools had less impact across the consortia than for primary schools.

reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their that a lot of this performance data was just for Estyn, but actually it never has been. When we inspect, we look at a whole range of aspects of the work. We look at standards, we look at teaching and learning in the classroom, we look at well-being, we look at care support and guidance, we look at leadership, we look at all of these things, and we look at it based on first-hand evidence--what we actually see in the classroom. So, we're quite happy to continue to inspect schools, and we in fact support having less emphasis on data because, although data is useful, and we hope that schools will continue to analyse their data and use that data to help them self-improve and self-evaluate, we don't actually need it and it has actually created a bit of a high-stakes culture. So, I think stepping back from that culture is a good idea.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you all for your attendance As usual, you'll receive a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. But thank you very much again for coming in this morning.Meilyr Rowlands: Diolch yn fawr--thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a ministerial update on the emotional and mental health of children and young people in Wales--next steps for'Mind over matter'. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government regarding teachers'pay and pensions, and paper to note 3 is a letter to the Minister for Education from us regarding the school funding review. Are Members happy to note those Thank you. Can I then propose under Standing Order 17. 42 that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting Are Members content Great. Okay. Thank you. you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacyMeilyr Rowlands: I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets--we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report--that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children--it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please No. Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our scrutiny session on Estyn's annual report 2018-19. I'm very pleased to welcome Meilyr Rowlands, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector, Estyn; Jassa Scott, strategic director at Estyn; and Claire Morgan, strategic director at Estyn. Thank you all for attending. We're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. We'll go straight into questions from Suzy Davies.Suzy Davies AM: Bore da. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for the papers upfront, in which you say that the most striking feature of the education system, looking forward, of course is the curriculum and the change that that's bringing. How can we be sure that, during this period of change, standards don't slip And also, from the point of view of scrutiny, will we be back in a situation where we're being told,'You can't compare one set of results against the previous year's results, because of the nature of the change'Meilyr Rowlands: Bore da, bawb. Thank you for the invitation to come here. I think that's a good question. I think any kind of major educational reform has got risks attached to it, particularly if those changes were made too quickly. I think this process of reform has been going on in the background for a few years now, so I think there is a track record of standards and provision not slipping. We've seen small incremental improvements. So, overall, I think we can be fairly confident that standards won't slip during this period of preparation.Suzy Davies AM: Can I just ask: is that based on your evidence around primary own. So, there are a lot of caveats to be made around the fact that that poverty gap hasn't closed, but that's not to say that schools can't do something about it, and I've suggested in the annual report a sort of a two-pronged approach. One is the new curriculum. I think there is evidence in the international research that teaching and learning, better teaching and learning, helps disadvantaged poor pupils disproportionately. So, they gain more from it that their peers. So, I think improving teaching and learning, and we discussed that earlier this morning about how the new curriculum is really all about improving the quality of teaching and learning in the classroom. So, that's one approach, and then the other approach, which I've also mentioned earlier, is having a community-focused approach to schools. The schools that do more successfully tackle the poverty gap are the schools that take that kind of approach. It means helping the pupils. It means helping their families. It's about making pupil well-being really high on the agenda. It's very difficult for children to do well in school if they've got all kinds of things happening in their background. So, it's important that schools can maybe signpost those families to other services that can support them and help them. So, it's quite a complex--. It's challenging for schools to go down this route, and I think the more help we can give schools to take that approach, the better. But the schools that do do it do benefit a lot from it. They have better engagement from parents, from the families, and that then reflects back on the work of the children.Jassa Scott: And we've just published a collection of good practice about how schools support vulnerable learners, and we'll be teasing out the

What did Jassa Scott and Janet Finch-Saunders agree on the priority of the inspections

They agreed that the first area they would look specifically at would be the work of consortia to support curriculum work. Local government legislation were also under debate, which was an opportunity to adapt the inspection to look specifically at their work.

reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone that a lot of this performance data was just for Estyn, but actually it never has been. When we inspect, we look at a whole range of aspects of the work. We look at standards, we look at teaching and learning in the classroom, we look at well-being, we look at care support and guidance, we look at leadership, we look at all of these things, and we look at it based on first-hand evidence--what we actually see in the classroom. So, we're quite happy to continue to inspect schools, and we in fact support having less emphasis on data because, although data is useful, and we hope that schools will continue to analyse their data and use that data to help them self-improve and self-evaluate, we don't actually need it and it has actually created a bit of a high-stakes culture. So, I think stepping back from that culture is a good idea.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you all for your attendance As usual, you'll receive a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. But thank you very much again for coming in this morning.Meilyr Rowlands: Diolch yn fawr--thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a ministerial update on the emotional and mental health of children and young people in Wales--next steps for'Mind over matter'. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government regarding teachers'pay and pensions, and paper to note 3 is a letter to the Minister for Education from us regarding the school funding review. Are Members happy to note those Thank you. Can I then propose under Standing Order 17. 42 that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting Are Members content Great. Okay. Thank you. who's studying in a further education college will have to do resits. There's an aim to try and get everyone to a basic level. In apprenticeships they'll use essential skills and so on to try and get that basic level of literacy as well, so there is an emphasis. I think one of the worrying indications, maybe, that post-16 sectors find is that sometimes even when learners are coming out with a basic qualification in a GCSE, potentially in English or a literature subject, they don't necessarily have a really good foundation of some of the basic skills as well. So, there is a lot of work to do in this area.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, all right. Could I just move you on-- Sorry--Meilyr Rowlands: The only thing I would add to that is, I guess, it's quite small, the number of people who don't have basic reading. I think one of the things we need to emphasise is that learning reading is something you do throughout your life, and what we need to do is to develop, in particular, pupils'higher level reading skills. The fact that they can just read isn't the end of the story; they need to be developing those higher level reading skills and continuing to widen the range of things they read, and be able to develop their vocabulary at a higher level.Dawn Bowden AM: And their comprehension, I guess.Meilyr Rowlands: SorryDawn Bowden AM: And their comprehension as well.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely, yes--those higher level skills of comprehension and inference and those sorts of things.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, okay. Can I just move you on, then, to numeracy and whether you can tell us if you're satisfied with the progress in numeracy, because I think we were doing better on the PISA results in maths in It's probably worth saying that skill development is a strength in about three quarters of our schools--primary schools and early years settings. But in a minority of schools and settings, as you've picked up, children are often introduced to things too early. So, they're introduced to phonics, they're introduced to learning to read, when they're not at that developmental stage. And really, long term, it means the children lose confidence, because if they're introduced to these things too early they don't succeed, they tend to need additional support, and it can give them a negative impression, it can give them negative thoughts about their ability. So, we need to address that, and really it's about--Dawn Bowden AM: Sorry, what sort of age range are we talking about hereClaire Morgan: These would be children from three to five.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay.Claire Morgan: So, this is very, very early on.Dawn Bowden AM: And is there something, then, in that--and I don't think there's much we can do about that, but it may be in terms of the way that the schools or the early learning settings address this--you will have children at a very young age that have almost a year's difference in their age group, so they're born just before 1 September or just after 1 September So, that's a huge gap, isn't it, at that point in their developmentClaire Morgan: Yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Is that not being addressed in a way that those children are being taught and approached at that ageClaire Morgan: Yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Right, okay. That's fine. In terms of reading and literacy skills, we still remain quite low in the Programme for International Student Assessment ratings for reading, and I know there is a particular concern about the impact on boys in that regard. What do

What did Claire Morgan talk about the skill development in early year settings

She held the view that children aged 3-5 were often introduced to things too early when they're not at that developmental stage. As a result, in the long term children would lose confidence with a lot of negative impressions.

reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their Wales than we did previously So, what are your thoughts on thatMeilyr Rowlands: I think there is a fairly clear good news story here. PISA shows improvements and a lot of that can be attributed, I think, to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. I think there's much less predictability in that work; you can't approach it in a formulaic way, either the pupils or the teachers in terms of teaching it. There's much more problem solving. It's about applying what you've learnt in the core mathematics lessons to new situations in subjects across the curriculum. I think that that GCSE numeracy has built on the work that's been done lower down on the national numeracy framework, which has the same philosophy of applying that mathematics knowledge in a problem-solving situation. That has been a really good news story, really.Dawn Bowden AM: That's something to be positive about, anyway. That's good. My final question, Chair, is: in your view, to what extent is Wales on track to meet the target of 500 points in each of the domains in the 2020-1 cycle for PISAMeilyr Rowlands: I think that that target is somewhat arbitrary, but assuming that we continue on this journey that we are on--the current change programme of the new curriculum and so forth--I think we would expect to see those improvements we've seen in science and in mathematics to continue. We've talked about reading and I think we will be giving more attention to reading. I think the education system more generally, hopefully, will give more attention to reading. So, I would hope to see improvements there as well. The only other thing I would add is that there is some research that indicates or suggests that the effect of schools is greater on mathematics and science than on a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacyMeilyr Rowlands: I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets--we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report--that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children--it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model who's studying in a further education college will have to do resits. There's an aim to try and get everyone to a basic level. In apprenticeships they'll use essential skills and so on to try and get that basic level of literacy as well, so there is an emphasis. I think one of the worrying indications, maybe, that post-16 sectors find is that sometimes even when learners are coming out with a basic qualification in a GCSE, potentially in English or a literature subject, they don't necessarily have a really good foundation of some of the basic skills as well. So, there is a lot of work to do in this area.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, all right. Could I just move you on-- Sorry--Meilyr Rowlands: The only thing I would add to that is, I guess, it's quite small, the number of people who don't have basic reading. I think one of the things we need to emphasise is that learning reading is something you do throughout your life, and what we need to do is to develop, in particular, pupils'higher level reading skills. The fact that they can just read isn't the end of the story; they need to be developing those higher level reading skills and continuing to widen the range of things they read, and be able to develop their vocabulary at a higher level.Dawn Bowden AM: And their comprehension, I guess.Meilyr Rowlands: SorryDawn Bowden AM: And their comprehension as well.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely, yes--those higher level skills of comprehension and inference and those sorts of things.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, okay. Can I just move you on, then, to numeracy and whether you can tell us if you're satisfied with the progress in numeracy, because I think we were doing better on the PISA results in maths in

What was the top priority in skills developing, according to Meilyr Rowlands

He believed literacy still needed to be the top priority, because it was something that underpinned the rest of education. Yet work was still needed to be done to continue prioritizing it.

a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their Wales than we did previously So, what are your thoughts on thatMeilyr Rowlands: I think there is a fairly clear good news story here. PISA shows improvements and a lot of that can be attributed, I think, to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. I think there's much less predictability in that work; you can't approach it in a formulaic way, either the pupils or the teachers in terms of teaching it. There's much more problem solving. It's about applying what you've learnt in the core mathematics lessons to new situations in subjects across the curriculum. I think that that GCSE numeracy has built on the work that's been done lower down on the national numeracy framework, which has the same philosophy of applying that mathematics knowledge in a problem-solving situation. That has been a really good news story, really.Dawn Bowden AM: That's something to be positive about, anyway. That's good. My final question, Chair, is: in your view, to what extent is Wales on track to meet the target of 500 points in each of the domains in the 2020-1 cycle for PISAMeilyr Rowlands: I think that that target is somewhat arbitrary, but assuming that we continue on this journey that we are on--the current change programme of the new curriculum and so forth--I think we would expect to see those improvements we've seen in science and in mathematics to continue. We've talked about reading and I think we will be giving more attention to reading. I think the education system more generally, hopefully, will give more attention to reading. So, I would hope to see improvements there as well. The only other thing I would add is that there is some research that indicates or suggests that the effect of schools is greater on mathematics and science than on that a lot of this performance data was just for Estyn, but actually it never has been. When we inspect, we look at a whole range of aspects of the work. We look at standards, we look at teaching and learning in the classroom, we look at well-being, we look at care support and guidance, we look at leadership, we look at all of these things, and we look at it based on first-hand evidence--what we actually see in the classroom. So, we're quite happy to continue to inspect schools, and we in fact support having less emphasis on data because, although data is useful, and we hope that schools will continue to analyse their data and use that data to help them self-improve and self-evaluate, we don't actually need it and it has actually created a bit of a high-stakes culture. So, I think stepping back from that culture is a good idea.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you all for your attendance As usual, you'll receive a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. But thank you very much again for coming in this morning.Meilyr Rowlands: Diolch yn fawr--thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a ministerial update on the emotional and mental health of children and young people in Wales--next steps for'Mind over matter'. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government regarding teachers'pay and pensions, and paper to note 3 is a letter to the Minister for Education from us regarding the school funding review. Are Members happy to note those Thank you. Can I then propose under Standing Order 17. 42 that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting Are Members content Great. Okay. Thank you. you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacyMeilyr Rowlands: I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets--we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report--that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children--it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model

What did the group talk about the progress in numeracy skills

Meilyr Rowlands thought it was a fairly clear good news to see the improvements on the PISA results in maths, which could be attributed to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. Also they agreed it was a good news story to see much more mathematics knowledge to be applied in a problem-solving situation. With regard to the effects of schools, Meilyr Rowlands held that the school had a larger effect on mathematics and science than reading.

a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their Wales than we did previously So, what are your thoughts on thatMeilyr Rowlands: I think there is a fairly clear good news story here. PISA shows improvements and a lot of that can be attributed, I think, to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. I think there's much less predictability in that work; you can't approach it in a formulaic way, either the pupils or the teachers in terms of teaching it. There's much more problem solving. It's about applying what you've learnt in the core mathematics lessons to new situations in subjects across the curriculum. I think that that GCSE numeracy has built on the work that's been done lower down on the national numeracy framework, which has the same philosophy of applying that mathematics knowledge in a problem-solving situation. That has been a really good news story, really.Dawn Bowden AM: That's something to be positive about, anyway. That's good. My final question, Chair, is: in your view, to what extent is Wales on track to meet the target of 500 points in each of the domains in the 2020-1 cycle for PISAMeilyr Rowlands: I think that that target is somewhat arbitrary, but assuming that we continue on this journey that we are on--the current change programme of the new curriculum and so forth--I think we would expect to see those improvements we've seen in science and in mathematics to continue. We've talked about reading and I think we will be giving more attention to reading. I think the education system more generally, hopefully, will give more attention to reading. So, I would hope to see improvements there as well. The only other thing I would add is that there is some research that indicates or suggests that the effect of schools is greater on mathematics and science than on you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacyMeilyr Rowlands: I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets--we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report--that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children--it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model those two different approaches as well.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay, thank you. And just finally from me, for the time being at least, the financial situation; we've spoken about that already this morning. If you could--. If funding was injected into the system tomorrow, say, what would you spend it on What aspects would benefit from that additional fundingMeilyr Rowlands: Were you asking about something specific thereSian Gwenllian AM: In the schools themselves, if you were a school leader, what would you--Meilyr Rowlands: Oh, if I were a school leader.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. How would you use any additional funding that would flow into the schoolMeilyr Rowlands: It's difficult to make that decision, because every school is different. It is important, of course, that leaders do have the power and the ability to make those decisions themselves. But, certainly, in the short term, the type of thing I would have thought would be to prepare for the new curriculum. That means freeing up teachers to think about what the new curriculum means to them. The schools that have been a part of developing the curriculum have been in a fortunate position in that they've had plenty of time to think about this. So, it's now time--and this was the chief message of my annual report this year--for every school in Wales to start to think. Because I think that the new curriculum is truly an opportunity to take a forward step in terms of how we teach and learn within schools. But that means that time is needed for schools to think this through and, in that thinking, to contact the community, to talk to their children as well, to see what the community in its broader sense would like to see being in the new curriculum, because it's up to

What did Meilyr Rowlands say school could do about the poverty gap between pupils

There was a two-pronged approach to solve the problem. One is the new curriculum, which was all about improving the quality of teaching and learning in the classroom. Poor pupils could gain more from it than their peers. The other one was to have a community-focused approach to schools through helping the pupils and their families.

a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone Wales than we did previously So, what are your thoughts on thatMeilyr Rowlands: I think there is a fairly clear good news story here. PISA shows improvements and a lot of that can be attributed, I think, to the new GCSE mathematics numeracy. I think there's much less predictability in that work; you can't approach it in a formulaic way, either the pupils or the teachers in terms of teaching it. There's much more problem solving. It's about applying what you've learnt in the core mathematics lessons to new situations in subjects across the curriculum. I think that that GCSE numeracy has built on the work that's been done lower down on the national numeracy framework, which has the same philosophy of applying that mathematics knowledge in a problem-solving situation. That has been a really good news story, really.Dawn Bowden AM: That's something to be positive about, anyway. That's good. My final question, Chair, is: in your view, to what extent is Wales on track to meet the target of 500 points in each of the domains in the 2020-1 cycle for PISAMeilyr Rowlands: I think that that target is somewhat arbitrary, but assuming that we continue on this journey that we are on--the current change programme of the new curriculum and so forth--I think we would expect to see those improvements we've seen in science and in mathematics to continue. We've talked about reading and I think we will be giving more attention to reading. I think the education system more generally, hopefully, will give more attention to reading. So, I would hope to see improvements there as well. The only other thing I would add is that there is some research that indicates or suggests that the effect of schools is greater on mathematics and science than on reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacyMeilyr Rowlands: I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets--we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report--that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children--it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model who's studying in a further education college will have to do resits. There's an aim to try and get everyone to a basic level. In apprenticeships they'll use essential skills and so on to try and get that basic level of literacy as well, so there is an emphasis. I think one of the worrying indications, maybe, that post-16 sectors find is that sometimes even when learners are coming out with a basic qualification in a GCSE, potentially in English or a literature subject, they don't necessarily have a really good foundation of some of the basic skills as well. So, there is a lot of work to do in this area.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, all right. Could I just move you on-- Sorry--Meilyr Rowlands: The only thing I would add to that is, I guess, it's quite small, the number of people who don't have basic reading. I think one of the things we need to emphasise is that learning reading is something you do throughout your life, and what we need to do is to develop, in particular, pupils'higher level reading skills. The fact that they can just read isn't the end of the story; they need to be developing those higher level reading skills and continuing to widen the range of things they read, and be able to develop their vocabulary at a higher level.Dawn Bowden AM: And their comprehension, I guess.Meilyr Rowlands: SorryDawn Bowden AM: And their comprehension as well.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely, yes--those higher level skills of comprehension and inference and those sorts of things.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, okay. Can I just move you on, then, to numeracy and whether you can tell us if you're satisfied with the progress in numeracy, because I think we were doing better on the PISA results in maths in

Why did pupils from better-off backgrounds do less well, according to Meilyr Rowlands

Because they had to make sure that more able and talented children do well, who are mainly from poor backgrounds.

a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their those two different approaches as well.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay, thank you. And just finally from me, for the time being at least, the financial situation; we've spoken about that already this morning. If you could--. If funding was injected into the system tomorrow, say, what would you spend it on What aspects would benefit from that additional fundingMeilyr Rowlands: Were you asking about something specific thereSian Gwenllian AM: In the schools themselves, if you were a school leader, what would you--Meilyr Rowlands: Oh, if I were a school leader.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. How would you use any additional funding that would flow into the schoolMeilyr Rowlands: It's difficult to make that decision, because every school is different. It is important, of course, that leaders do have the power and the ability to make those decisions themselves. But, certainly, in the short term, the type of thing I would have thought would be to prepare for the new curriculum. That means freeing up teachers to think about what the new curriculum means to them. The schools that have been a part of developing the curriculum have been in a fortunate position in that they've had plenty of time to think about this. So, it's now time--and this was the chief message of my annual report this year--for every school in Wales to start to think. Because I think that the new curriculum is truly an opportunity to take a forward step in terms of how we teach and learn within schools. But that means that time is needed for schools to think this through and, in that thinking, to contact the community, to talk to their children as well, to see what the community in its broader sense would like to see being in the new curriculum, because it's up to aspects around community-focused schools a lot more in a report that we'll publish in the next couple of months. So, we've kind of drilled down and looked at what some schools are doing in that area in a bit more detail.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Suzy, on this.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, just quickly. Obviously, I think we've all been to schools where the PDG is actually used to engage parents more for exactly the reasons you say. But I just wanted to interrogate the deprivation gap a little bit, because, of course, even though, as you say, there's perhaps more equity in Wales, one of the reasons for that is because our children from better-off backgrounds do less well, and considerably less well than their peers in the other parts of the United Kingdom. So, whereas their attainment gaps are pretty dreadful, that's one of the reasons--that our better-off children aren't doing as well as perhaps they might do. Is that a concern as well We don't want this rush to the middle, do weMeilyr Rowlands: I think it's essential that all groups of pupils do as well as they possibly can, absolutely. So, it's not quite the same issue, but we've talked about the importance of making sure that more able and talented children do well.Suzy Davies AM: They're not the same.Meilyr Rowlands: They're not the same, clearly, because you have more able and talented children from poor backgrounds. Differentiation is a challenge for schools, but it's absolutely essential that all groups of children do as well as they possibly can. So, in things like PISA, in terms of reading, for example, we can't just say it's that group that needs to improve--all the groups need to improve. And I think that's why something like the new curriculum gives own. So, there are a lot of caveats to be made around the fact that that poverty gap hasn't closed, but that's not to say that schools can't do something about it, and I've suggested in the annual report a sort of a two-pronged approach. One is the new curriculum. I think there is evidence in the international research that teaching and learning, better teaching and learning, helps disadvantaged poor pupils disproportionately. So, they gain more from it that their peers. So, I think improving teaching and learning, and we discussed that earlier this morning about how the new curriculum is really all about improving the quality of teaching and learning in the classroom. So, that's one approach, and then the other approach, which I've also mentioned earlier, is having a community-focused approach to schools. The schools that do more successfully tackle the poverty gap are the schools that take that kind of approach. It means helping the pupils. It means helping their families. It's about making pupil well-being really high on the agenda. It's very difficult for children to do well in school if they've got all kinds of things happening in their background. So, it's important that schools can maybe signpost those families to other services that can support them and help them. So, it's quite a complex--. It's challenging for schools to go down this route, and I think the more help we can give schools to take that approach, the better. But the schools that do do it do benefit a lot from it. They have better engagement from parents, from the families, and that then reflects back on the work of the children.Jassa Scott: And we've just published a collection of good practice about how schools support vulnerable learners, and we'll be teasing out the

Why did Jassa Scott believe it was more difficult for secondary schools to prioritize mental health and well-being

First of all, secondary school pupils got to notice the differences between their everyday life at school and somehow felt not cared about. It was also more of a challenge for a secondary school to provide an effective set of support from that whole-staff awareness of some of the challenges. That is to say, it was more difficult for teachers in secondary schools to pick up signs that pupils may be struggling.

a good example, to show their own interest in reading, to encourage children to read themselves.Dawn Bowden AM: It's probably a wider societal problem as well, isn't it I'm thinking about gaming, electronic gaming, computers.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely. I think there is some sort of link with the digital world, and the way people read--the actual technique of reading, is evolving. But I think reading is so important, and developing a complex vocabulary is so important in being able to communicate, in order to get a good job, to have enjoyment out of life--all of those things are so important. We ourselves are going to give this quite a lot of priority in future, so we're doing a major piece of work on language acquisition, which will cover some of this next year. Every year one of our thematics is the major bit of work we do, and we try to support that with a conference. So, that will be the focus that we give to our work next year--it is on language acquisition.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you for that. Just one other supplementary on that, I guess, is whether you have a good idea of how many young people are coming out of school at 16--so, those that are not staying on to do A-levels--and are coming out with an inability to read or white. Do we know what the figure is for thatMeilyr Rowlands: I can't tell you that off the top of my head, but I'm sure that there will be evidence. That's not something we inspect as such.Dawn Bowden AM: No, no, but there should be evidence around that. Okay.Jassa Scott: There has been a shift in that there's been continued emphasis in post-16 education and training around literacy and picking that up. For example, anyone reading, and the reason for that is you don't do a lot mathematics or science in the home. But the attitude towards reading is very much dependent on family and community factors, more so, maybe, than mathematics and science. So, I think that's another reason why I think a community-school approach is really important. You need to get everybody on board; it's not just what the teacher does in the classroom--it's important that the whole family and the community thinks that reading is important.Dawn Bowden AM: Just on numeracy, it was interesting because one of the schools in my constituency have actually contacted my office and a number of other organisations across the constituency to ask us how we use maths in our work. So, they're obviously trying to relate that now to everyday life and working, which I thought was quite good.Meilyr Rowlands: That's good.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now around progress of specific groups of pupils. If I can start and ask you how concerning is it that the gap between pupils eligible for free school meals and other pupils has not narrowed in the last 10 years, especially given the PS475 million pupil deprivation grant investment.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think secondary schools and the issue of poverty were the two things I've noted in the annual report. So, I think it is a concern to us. I think it is worth also remembering that compared to other countries, for example, in PISA, we do compare quite well in terms of equity. There's also an argument that maybe poverty and austerity have increased, so that we're in a way running to keep still. And I think also, as I was suggesting about the reading, poverty really is a social phenomenon. Schools can't solve that on their that a lot of this performance data was just for Estyn, but actually it never has been. When we inspect, we look at a whole range of aspects of the work. We look at standards, we look at teaching and learning in the classroom, we look at well-being, we look at care support and guidance, we look at leadership, we look at all of these things, and we look at it based on first-hand evidence--what we actually see in the classroom. So, we're quite happy to continue to inspect schools, and we in fact support having less emphasis on data because, although data is useful, and we hope that schools will continue to analyse their data and use that data to help them self-improve and self-evaluate, we don't actually need it and it has actually created a bit of a high-stakes culture. So, I think stepping back from that culture is a good idea.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. We've come to the end of our time, so can I thank you all for your attendance As usual, you'll receive a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting. But thank you very much again for coming in this morning.Meilyr Rowlands: Diolch yn fawr--thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a ministerial update on the emotional and mental health of children and young people in Wales--next steps for'Mind over matter'. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Housing and Local Government regarding teachers'pay and pensions, and paper to note 3 is a letter to the Minister for Education from us regarding the school funding review. Are Members happy to note those Thank you. Can I then propose under Standing Order 17. 42 that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting Are Members content Great. Okay. Thank you. you think are the most pressing priorities that face them around reading and literacyMeilyr Rowlands: I think literacy has been, and still is, and still needs to be a top priority. I mean, literacy clearly is something that underpins the rest of education, so it really does need to be a top priority. I think it has been a high priority, but we need to continue prioritising it. We've seen some improvements over the years. For example, we've given a lot of attention to writing over the years, and making sure that children get the opportunity to write in an extended way, not just short sentences, but having the opportunity to have extended writing, and there's some evidence that that now is beginning to have an effect. But almost ironically, the same sort of issue is true of reading. So, it's not just reading small little snippets--we need to encourage children to have a love for reading and read whole books. So, I gave a little bit of attention to that in the annual report--that that needs attention. I think the other thing I would emphasise is that this is not just for the foundation phase, it's not just for very young children--it's really important at key stage 2 and in secondary school. One of the things we have been worried about, and I think there was some reflection of this in PISA, is that there are strengths in reading in Wales. So, PISA, for example, said that children in Wales are very good at comparing lots of little snippets, but what they're saying, and they're saying this themselves, is that the love of books is decreasing, and the number of children who read regularly whole books. So, I think there is something there for teachers to set and model who's studying in a further education college will have to do resits. There's an aim to try and get everyone to a basic level. In apprenticeships they'll use essential skills and so on to try and get that basic level of literacy as well, so there is an emphasis. I think one of the worrying indications, maybe, that post-16 sectors find is that sometimes even when learners are coming out with a basic qualification in a GCSE, potentially in English or a literature subject, they don't necessarily have a really good foundation of some of the basic skills as well. So, there is a lot of work to do in this area.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, all right. Could I just move you on-- Sorry--Meilyr Rowlands: The only thing I would add to that is, I guess, it's quite small, the number of people who don't have basic reading. I think one of the things we need to emphasise is that learning reading is something you do throughout your life, and what we need to do is to develop, in particular, pupils'higher level reading skills. The fact that they can just read isn't the end of the story; they need to be developing those higher level reading skills and continuing to widen the range of things they read, and be able to develop their vocabulary at a higher level.Dawn Bowden AM: And their comprehension, I guess.Meilyr Rowlands: SorryDawn Bowden AM: And their comprehension as well.Meilyr Rowlands: Absolutely, yes--those higher level skills of comprehension and inference and those sorts of things.Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, okay. Can I just move you on, then, to numeracy and whether you can tell us if you're satisfied with the progress in numeracy, because I think we were doing better on the PISA results in maths in

Summarize the whole meeting.

A curriculum reform was to carry out throughout Wales. The group discussed with Estyn about the obstacles and difficulties faced by secondary schools when bringing the reform into practice, such as teacher shortage and lack of funds, and how Estyn tackled them. Then the council questioned Estyn over their inspection over local authorities'educational services including regional consortia and independent schools. In addition, the group also talked about specific skill development of literacy and numeracy, concluding that literacy should be the top priority of the progress. They also dug into concerns regarding students'economic background and the schools'ability to care for students'mental well-being.

OK, that was the real real important stuff. Um, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait on the potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what's been going on. So, uh, what's been going on Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here.PhD G: Um. {vocalsound} Well, preparation of the French test data actually.Professor F: OK.PhD G: So, {vocalsound} it means that um, well, it is, uh, a digit French database of microphone speech, downsampled to eight kilohertz and I've added noise to one part, with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises. And, @ @ so this is a training part. And then {pause} the remaining part, I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises. So we can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready. I'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task. And, yeah.Professor F: OK Uh, So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on, or {disfmarker} Yeah. OK.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: And again, I guess the p the plan is, uh, to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What's the plan againPhD G: The plan with {pause} these dataProfessor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what's {disfmarker} y You just described what you've been doing. So if you could remind me of what you're going to be doing.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Oh, this is {disfmarker} yeah, yeah.PhD G: Uh, yeah.Grad C: Tell him about the cube.PhD G: Well. The cube I should tell him about the cubeGrad C: Yeah.Professor F: Oh! Cube. Yeah.PhD G: Yeah.PhD E: Fill in the cube.PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker} actually like a limit {pause} on the computation load, or d latency, or something like that for Aurora taskProfessor F: Oh yeah, we haven't talked about any of that at all, have weGrad C: No.Professor F: Yeah, so, there's not really a limit. What it is is that there's {disfmarker} there's, uh {disfmarker} it's just penalty, you know That {disfmarker} that if you're using, uh, a megabyte, then they'll say that's very nice, but, of course, it will never go on a cheap cell phone.PhD B: OK.Professor F: Um. And, u uh, I think the computation isn't so much of a problem. I think it's more the memory. Uh, and, expensive cell phones, exa expensive hand - helds, and so forth, are gonna have lots of memory. So it's just that, uh, these people see the {disfmarker} the cheap cell phones as being still the biggest market, so.PhD B: Mm - hmm.Professor F: Um. But, yeah, I was just realizing that, actually, it doesn't explode out, um {disfmarker} It's not really two to the seventh. But it's {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} i i it doesn't really explode out the number of trainings cuz these were all trained individually. Right So, uh, if you have all of these nets trained some place, then, uh, you can combine their outputs and do the KL transformation and so forthGrad C: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and {disfmarker} and, uh {disfmarker} So, what it {disfmarker} it blows out is the number of uh testings. And, you know {disfmarker} and the number of times you do that last part. But that last part, I think, is so {disfmarker} has gotta be pretty quick, so. Uh. Right I mean, it's just running the data through {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh.PhD A: But wh what about a net that's trained used sonorants.PhD A: Right, OK,Professor F: Was what he was doing.PhD A: right. And they {disfmarker} they had done a cheating experiment or something, rightProfessor F: Yeah.PhD A: and determined that {disfmarker}Professor F: He {disfmarker} he di he didn't mention that part.PhD A: Well, Hynek said that {disfmarker} that, I guess before they had him work on this, they had done some experiment where if they could get that one feature right, it dramatically improved the result.Professor F: But. I see. OK.PhD A: So I was thinking, you know {disfmarker} it made me think about this, that if {disfmarker} it'd be an interesting experiment just to see, you know, if you did get all of those right.Professor F: Should be. Because if you get all of them in there, that defines all of the phones. So that's {disfmarker} that's equivalent to saying that you've got {disfmarker} {vocalsound} got all the phones right.PhD A: Right.Professor F: So, if that doesn't help, there's {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah.Professor F: Although, yeah, it would be {disfmarker} make an interesting cheating experiment because we are using it in this funny way,PhD A: Yeah.Professor F: where we're converting it into features.PhD A: And then you also don't know what error they've got on the HTK side. You know It sort of gives you your {disfmarker} the best you could hope for, kind of.Professor F: Yeah.Grad C: Mmm. Mmm, I see.PhD B: The soft training of the nets still requires the vector to sum to one, though, rightGrad C: To sum up to one.PhD B: So you can't really feed it, like, two articulatory features that are on at the same time with ones cuz it'll kind of normalize them down to one half or something like that, for instance.PhD G: But perhaps you have the choice of still fine because you have the {disfmarker} the, uh, combinations. So, in fact, it has every, you know {disfmarker} it had {disfmarker} has {disfmarker} has every distinction in it that you would have the other way.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: But it should go across languages better.PhD A: We could do an interesting cheating experiment with that too. We could {disfmarker} I don't know, if you had uh the phone labels, you could replace them by their articulatory features and then feed in a vector with those uh, things turned on based on what they're supposed to be for each phone to see if it {disfmarker} if you get a big win. Do you know what I'm sayingProfessor F: No.PhD A: So, um, I mean, if your net is gonna be outputting, uh, a vector of {disfmarker} basically of {disfmarker} well, it's gonna have probabilities, but let's say that they were ones and zeros, then y and you know for each, um, I don't know if you know this for your testing data, but if you know for your test data, you know, what the string of phones is and {disfmarker} and you have them aligned, then you can just {disfmarker} instead of going through the net, just create the vector for each phone and feed that in to see if that data helps. Eh, eh, what made me think about this is, I was talking with Hynek and he said that there was a guy at A T - andT who spent eighteen months working on a single feature. And because they had done some cheating experiments {disfmarker}Professor F: This was the guy that we were just talking a that we saw on campus. So, this was Larry Saul who did this {disfmarker} did this.PhD A: Oh, OK.Professor F: He I think {disfmarker} I think Dan did some of that.PhD A: Oh.Grad C: Um, in his previous Aurora experiments. And with the net it's {disfmarker} it's wonderful. Without the net it's just baseline.Professor F: Um, I think OGI folks have been doing that, too. D Because I think that for a bunch of their experiments they used, uh, mel cepstra, actually.Grad C: Yeah. Yeah.Professor F: Um, of course that's there and this is here and so on. OKGrad C: OK. Um, for the training corpus {disfmarker} corpus, um, we have, um, the {disfmarker} the d {pause} digits {nonvocalsound} from the various languages. Um, English Spanish um, French What else do we havePhD G: And the {pause} Finnish.Grad C: Finnish.PhD A: Where did th where did that come fromPhD E: And Italian.PhD A: DigitsPhD E: Uh, no, Italian no. Italian no.PhD A: Oh.Grad C: Oh. Italian.PhD E: I Italian yes. ItalianProfessor F: Italian.PhD A: Is that {disfmarker} Was that distributed with Aurora, or {disfmarker}Grad C: One L or two L'sPhD A: Where did that {disfmarker}Professor F: The newer one.PhD G: So English, uh, Finnish and Italian are Aurora.Professor F: Yeah.PhD G: And Spanish and French is something that we can use in addition to Aurora. Uh, well.Professor F: Yeah, so Carmen brought the Spanish, and Stephane brought the French.Grad C: OK. And, um, oh yeah, and {disfmarker}Professor F: Is it French French or Belgian French There's a {disfmarker}PhD G: It's, uh, French French.Grad C: French French.PhD E: Like Mexican Spain and Spain.Professor F: Yeah.PhD B: Or Swiss.PhD E: I think that is more important,PhD B: Swiss - German.PhD E: Mexican Spain. Because more people {disfmarker}Professor F: Yeah. Yeah, probably so.PhD E: Yeah.Professor F: Yeah. Yeah, Herve always insists that Belgian is {disfmarker} i is absolutely pure French, has nothing to do

Summarize the discussion about language training data for cell phones

The team was gathering data from different languages and preparing relevant baselines. The professor reiterated that the multilingual focus was key since the reason for this project was to replace mel cepstra with a more robust, multilingual model. They needed sufficient diversity in the languages they used.

OK, that was the real real important stuff. Um, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait on the potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what's been going on. So, uh, what's been going on Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here.PhD G: Um. {vocalsound} Well, preparation of the French test data actually.Professor F: OK.PhD G: So, {vocalsound} it means that um, well, it is, uh, a digit French database of microphone speech, downsampled to eight kilohertz and I've added noise to one part, with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises. And, @ @ so this is a training part. And then {pause} the remaining part, I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises. So we can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready. I'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task. And, yeah.Professor F: OK Uh, So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on, or {disfmarker} Yeah. OK.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: And again, I guess the p the plan is, uh, to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What's the plan againPhD G: The plan with {pause} these dataProfessor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what's {disfmarker} y You just described what you've been doing. So if you could remind me of what you're going to be doing.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Oh, this is {disfmarker} yeah, yeah.PhD G: Uh, yeah.Grad C: Tell him about the cube.PhD G: Well. The cube I should tell him about the cubeGrad C: Yeah.Professor F: Oh! Cube. Yeah.PhD G: Yeah.PhD E: Fill in the cube.PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker} actually take their {disfmarker}PhD G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Professor F: probably the on - line {disfmarker} line normalization because then it {disfmarker} {comment} it's {disfmarker} if we do anything else, we're gonna end up having to do on - line normalization too, so we may as well just do on - line normalization.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Professor F: So. Um. So that it's plausible for the final thing. Good. Um. So, I guess, yeah, th the other topic {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} maybe we're already there, or almost there, is goals for the {disfmarker} for next week's meeting. Uh. i i i it seems to me that we wanna do is flush out what you put on the board here. Uh. You know, maybe, have it be somewhat visual, a little bit.Grad C: OK. Like a s like a slideProfessor F: Uh, so w we can say what we're doing,Grad C: OK.Professor F: yeah. And, um, also, if you have {pause} sorted out, um, this information about how long i roughly how long it takes to do on what and, you know, what we can {disfmarker} how many of these trainings, uh, uh, and testings and so forth that we can realistically do, uh, then one of the big goals of going there next week would be to {disfmarker} to actually settle on which of them we're gonna do. And, uh, when we come back we can charge in and do it. Um. Anything else that {disfmarker} I a a Actually {disfmarker} started out this {disfmarker} this field trip started off with {disfmarker} with, uh, Stephane talking to Hynek, so you may have {disfmarker} you may have had other goals, uh, for going up, and any anything else you can think of would be {disfmarker} we should think about {pause} accomplishing I mean, with {disfmarker} but he says those {disfmarker} those {disfmarker} those Parisians talk funny.PhD G: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have an accent.Professor F: Yeah they {disfmarker} they do, yeah. Yeah. {pause} But then he likes Belgian fries too, so. OK.Grad C: And then we have, uh, um, broader {disfmarker} broader corpus, um, like TIMIT. TIMIT so far,PhD E: And Spanish too.Grad C: right Spanish {disfmarker} Oh, Spanish storiesPhD E: Albayzin is the name.PhD A: What about TI - digitsGrad C: Um, TI - digits {disfmarker} uh all these Aurora f d data p data is from {disfmarker} is derived from TI - digits.PhD A: Uh - huh. Oh. Oh OK.Grad C: Um, basically, they {disfmarker} they corrupted it with, uh, different kinds of noises at different SNR levels.PhD A: Ah. I see.Grad C: Yeah.Professor F: y And I think Stephane was saying there's {disfmarker} there's some broader s material in the French alsoPhD G: Yeah, we cou we could use {disfmarker}Grad C: OK.PhD G: Yeah. The French data.PhD E: Spanish storiesGrad C: No.PhD E: No.Grad C: Sp - Not Spanish storiesPhD E: No. No. AlbayzProfessor F: Spanish {disfmarker}Grad C: Spanish something.PhD E: Yeah.Grad C: OK.PhD B: Did the Aurora people actually corrupt it themselves, or just specify the signal and the signal - tGrad C: They {disfmarker} they corrupted it, um, themselves,PhD B: OK.Grad C: but they also included the {disfmarker} the noise files for us, right Or {disfmarker}PhD G: Yeah.Grad C: so we can go ahead and corrupt other things.Professor F: I'm just curious, Carmen {disfmarker} I mean, I couldn't tell if you were joking or {disfmarker} i Is it {disfmarker} is it Mexican Spanish,PhD E: No no no no.Professor F: or is it {disfmarker}PhD E: No no no no.Professor F: Oh, no, no. It's {disfmarker} it's Spanish from Spain, still fine because you have the {disfmarker} the, uh, combinations. So, in fact, it has every, you know {disfmarker} it had {disfmarker} has {disfmarker} has every distinction in it that you would have the other way.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: But it should go across languages better.PhD A: We could do an interesting cheating experiment with that too. We could {disfmarker} I don't know, if you had uh the phone labels, you could replace them by their articulatory features and then feed in a vector with those uh, things turned on based on what they're supposed to be for each phone to see if it {disfmarker} if you get a big win. Do you know what I'm sayingProfessor F: No.PhD A: So, um, I mean, if your net is gonna be outputting, uh, a vector of {disfmarker} basically of {disfmarker} well, it's gonna have probabilities, but let's say that they were ones and zeros, then y and you know for each, um, I don't know if you know this for your testing data, but if you know for your test data, you know, what the string of phones is and {disfmarker} and you have them aligned, then you can just {disfmarker} instead of going through the net, just create the vector for each phone and feed that in to see if that data helps. Eh, eh, what made me think about this is, I was talking with Hynek and he said that there was a guy at A T - andT who spent eighteen months working on a single feature. And because they had done some cheating experiments {disfmarker}Professor F: This was the guy that we were just talking a that we saw on campus. So, this was Larry Saul who did this {disfmarker} did this.PhD A: Oh, OK.Professor F: He things which {disfmarker} which {disfmarker} which might be foreign language.Grad C: Right. Right.Professor F: I see. I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I get in the picture about the cube.Grad C: Yeah. Maybe {disfmarker}Professor F: OK.Grad C: OK. Uh - huh.Professor F: OK. Um, I mean, those listening to this will not have a picture either, so, um, I guess I'm {disfmarker} I'm not any worse off. But but at some point {disfmarker} somebody should just show me the cube. It sounds s I {disfmarker} I get {disfmarker} I think I get the general idea of it,Grad C: Yeah, yeah,Professor F: yeah.PhD A: So, when you said that you were getting the labels for TIMIT, {comment} um, are y what do you mean by thatGrad C: b May Mm - hmm. Oh, I'm just {disfmarker} I'm just, uh, transforming them from the, um, the standard TIMIT transcriptions into {disfmarker} into a nice long huge P - file to do training.PhD A: Mmm. Were the digits, um, hand - labeled for phonesGrad C: Um, the {disfmarker} the digits {disfmarker}PhD A: Or were they {disfmarker} those labels automatically derivedGrad C: Oh yeah, those were {disfmarker} those were automatically derived by {disfmarker} by Dan using, um, embedded {disfmarker} embedded training and alignment.PhD A: Mmm.Professor F: Ah, but which DanGrad C: Uh, Ellis. RightProfessor F: OK. OK.Grad C: Yeah. So.PhD A: I was just wondering because that test you're tGrad C: Uh - huh.PhD A: I {disfmarker} I think you're doing this test because you want to determine whether or not, uh, having s general speech performs as well as having specific {pause} speech.Grad C: That's right.Professor F: Well, especially when you go over the different languages again, because you'd {disfmarker} the different languages have different words for the different digits,PhD A: Mm - hmm. And

Did the Professor agree with Grad G on cross-lingual data

Grad G thought that the multi-lingual aspect of the model was not very important. The professor disagreed. He explained that the point of the project was to have something robust that could apply to many languages.

OK, that was the real real important stuff. Um, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait on the potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what's been going on. So, uh, what's been going on Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here.PhD G: Um. {vocalsound} Well, preparation of the French test data actually.Professor F: OK.PhD G: So, {vocalsound} it means that um, well, it is, uh, a digit French database of microphone speech, downsampled to eight kilohertz and I've added noise to one part, with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises. And, @ @ so this is a training part. And then {pause} the remaining part, I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises. So we can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready. I'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task. And, yeah.Professor F: OK Uh, So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on, or {disfmarker} Yeah. OK.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: And again, I guess the p the plan is, uh, to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What's the plan againPhD G: The plan with {pause} these dataProfessor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what's {disfmarker} y You just described what you've been doing. So if you could remind me of what you're going to be doing.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Oh, this is {disfmarker} yeah, yeah.PhD G: Uh, yeah.Grad C: Tell him about the cube.PhD G: Well. The cube I should tell him about the cubeGrad C: Yeah.Professor F: Oh! Cube. Yeah.PhD G: Yeah.PhD E: Fill in the cube.PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker} actually still fine because you have the {disfmarker} the, uh, combinations. So, in fact, it has every, you know {disfmarker} it had {disfmarker} has {disfmarker} has every distinction in it that you would have the other way.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: But it should go across languages better.PhD A: We could do an interesting cheating experiment with that too. We could {disfmarker} I don't know, if you had uh the phone labels, you could replace them by their articulatory features and then feed in a vector with those uh, things turned on based on what they're supposed to be for each phone to see if it {disfmarker} if you get a big win. Do you know what I'm sayingProfessor F: No.PhD A: So, um, I mean, if your net is gonna be outputting, uh, a vector of {disfmarker} basically of {disfmarker} well, it's gonna have probabilities, but let's say that they were ones and zeros, then y and you know for each, um, I don't know if you know this for your testing data, but if you know for your test data, you know, what the string of phones is and {disfmarker} and you have them aligned, then you can just {disfmarker} instead of going through the net, just create the vector for each phone and feed that in to see if that data helps. Eh, eh, what made me think about this is, I was talking with Hynek and he said that there was a guy at A T - andT who spent eighteen months working on a single feature. And because they had done some cheating experiments {disfmarker}Professor F: This was the guy that we were just talking a that we saw on campus. So, this was Larry Saul who did this {disfmarker} did this.PhD A: Oh, OK.Professor F: He with {disfmarker} but he says those {disfmarker} those {disfmarker} those Parisians talk funny.PhD G: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have an accent.Professor F: Yeah they {disfmarker} they do, yeah. Yeah. {pause} But then he likes Belgian fries too, so. OK.Grad C: And then we have, uh, um, broader {disfmarker} broader corpus, um, like TIMIT. TIMIT so far,PhD E: And Spanish too.Grad C: right Spanish {disfmarker} Oh, Spanish storiesPhD E: Albayzin is the name.PhD A: What about TI - digitsGrad C: Um, TI - digits {disfmarker} uh all these Aurora f d data p data is from {disfmarker} is derived from TI - digits.PhD A: Uh - huh. Oh. Oh OK.Grad C: Um, basically, they {disfmarker} they corrupted it with, uh, different kinds of noises at different SNR levels.PhD A: Ah. I see.Grad C: Yeah.Professor F: y And I think Stephane was saying there's {disfmarker} there's some broader s material in the French alsoPhD G: Yeah, we cou we could use {disfmarker}Grad C: OK.PhD G: Yeah. The French data.PhD E: Spanish storiesGrad C: No.PhD E: No.Grad C: Sp - Not Spanish storiesPhD E: No. No. AlbayzProfessor F: Spanish {disfmarker}Grad C: Spanish something.PhD E: Yeah.Grad C: OK.PhD B: Did the Aurora people actually corrupt it themselves, or just specify the signal and the signal - tGrad C: They {disfmarker} they corrupted it, um, themselves,PhD B: OK.Grad C: but they also included the {disfmarker} the noise files for us, right Or {disfmarker}PhD G: Yeah.Grad C: so we can go ahead and corrupt other things.Professor F: I'm just curious, Carmen {disfmarker} I mean, I couldn't tell if you were joking or {disfmarker} i Is it {disfmarker} is it Mexican Spanish,PhD E: No no no no.Professor F: or is it {disfmarker}PhD E: No no no no.Professor F: Oh, no, no. It's {disfmarker} it's Spanish from Spain, I think {disfmarker} I think Dan did some of that.PhD A: Oh.Grad C: Um, in his previous Aurora experiments. And with the net it's {disfmarker} it's wonderful. Without the net it's just baseline.Professor F: Um, I think OGI folks have been doing that, too. D Because I think that for a bunch of their experiments they used, uh, mel cepstra, actually.Grad C: Yeah. Yeah.Professor F: Um, of course that's there and this is here and so on. OKGrad C: OK. Um, for the training corpus {disfmarker} corpus, um, we have, um, the {disfmarker} the d {pause} digits {nonvocalsound} from the various languages. Um, English Spanish um, French What else do we havePhD G: And the {pause} Finnish.Grad C: Finnish.PhD A: Where did th where did that come fromPhD E: And Italian.PhD A: DigitsPhD E: Uh, no, Italian no. Italian no.PhD A: Oh.Grad C: Oh. Italian.PhD E: I Italian yes. ItalianProfessor F: Italian.PhD A: Is that {disfmarker} Was that distributed with Aurora, or {disfmarker}Grad C: One L or two L'sPhD A: Where did that {disfmarker}Professor F: The newer one.PhD G: So English, uh, Finnish and Italian are Aurora.Professor F: Yeah.PhD G: And Spanish and French is something that we can use in addition to Aurora. Uh, well.Professor F: Yeah, so Carmen brought the Spanish, and Stephane brought the French.Grad C: OK. And, um, oh yeah, and {disfmarker}Professor F: Is it French French or Belgian French There's a {disfmarker}PhD G: It's, uh, French French.Grad C: French French.PhD E: Like Mexican Spain and Spain.Professor F: Yeah.PhD B: Or Swiss.PhD E: I think that is more important,PhD B: Swiss - German.PhD E: Mexican Spain. Because more people {disfmarker}Professor F: Yeah. Yeah, probably so.PhD E: Yeah.Professor F: Yeah. Yeah, Herve always insists that Belgian is {disfmarker} i is absolutely pure French, has nothing to do on multiple languages, thoughProfessor F: Well, you gotta do the KL transformation,PhD G: Eight {disfmarker} yProfessor F: but {disfmarker}PhD A: Is that just separate nets for each language then combined, or is that actually one net trained onPhD E: Necessary to put in.Professor F: Good question.PhD G: Uh, probably one net. Well. Uh.Professor F: One would think one net,PhD G: So.Professor F: but we've {disfmarker} I don't think we've tested that. RightPhD G: So, in the broader training corpus we can {disfmarker} we can use, uh, the three, or, a combination of {disfmarker} of two {disfmarker} two languages.PhD E: Database three.PhD A: In one net. Mm - hmm.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Yeah, so, I guess the first thing is if w if we know how much a {disfmarker} how long a {disfmarker} a training takes, if we can train up all these {disfmarker} these combinations, uh, then we can start working on testing of them individually, and in combination. RightGrad C: Mm - hmm.Professor F: Because the putting them in combination, I think, is not as much computationally as the r training of the nets in the first place. RightPhD G: Yeah.Professor F: So y you do have to compute the KL transformation. Uh, which is a little bit, but it's not too much.PhD G: It's not too much,Professor F: Yeah.PhD G: no.Professor F: So it's {disfmarker}PhD G: But {disfmarker} Yeah. But there is the testing also, which implies training, uh, the HTK modelsPhD E: The {disfmarker} the model {disfmarker} the HTK model.PhD G: and, well,Professor F: Uh, right.PhD G: it's {disfmarker}Professor F: Right. So if you do have lots of combinations, it's {disfmarker}PhD G: yeah. But it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's not so long. It @ @ {disfmarker} Yeah.Professor F: How long does it take for an, uh, HTK

What did the team think about the diversity of languages they needed

The team arrived at the conclusion that they only needed sufficient breadth, not every possible language. As long as most languages used over cellular phones were covered, they were fine. The similarity between different languages would help them cover more ground with fewer languages.

OK, that was the real real important stuff. Um, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait on the potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what's been going on. So, uh, what's been going on Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here.PhD G: Um. {vocalsound} Well, preparation of the French test data actually.Professor F: OK.PhD G: So, {vocalsound} it means that um, well, it is, uh, a digit French database of microphone speech, downsampled to eight kilohertz and I've added noise to one part, with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises. And, @ @ so this is a training part. And then {pause} the remaining part, I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises. So we can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready. I'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task. And, yeah.Professor F: OK Uh, So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on, or {disfmarker} Yeah. OK.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: And again, I guess the p the plan is, uh, to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What's the plan againPhD G: The plan with {pause} these dataProfessor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what's {disfmarker} y You just described what you've been doing. So if you could remind me of what you're going to be doing.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Oh, this is {disfmarker} yeah, yeah.PhD G: Uh, yeah.Grad C: Tell him about the cube.PhD G: Well. The cube I should tell him about the cubeGrad C: Yeah.Professor F: Oh! Cube. Yeah.PhD G: Yeah.PhD E: Fill in the cube.PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker} actually the HTK format to convert.Professor F: Mm - hmm.PhD B: Hmm.PhD E: And, I don't know what. I ask {disfmarker} e even I ask to Dan Ellis what I can do that, and h they {disfmarker} he say me that h he does doesn't any {disfmarker} any s any form to {disfmarker} to do that. And at the end, I think that with LabeCut I can transfer to ASCII format, and HTK is an ASCII format. And I m do another, uh, one program to put ASCII format of HTK to ase ay ac ASCII format to ExceedProfessor F: Mm - hmm.PhD E: and they used LabCut to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to pass.Professor F: OK, yeah.PhD E: Actually that was complicated,Professor F: So youPhD E: but well, I know how we can did that {disfmarker} do that.Professor F: Sure. So it's just usual kind of uh {disfmarker} sometimes say housekeeping, right To get these {disfmarker} get these things sorted out.PhD E: Yeah.Professor F: So it seems like there's {disfmarker} there's some peculiarities of the, uh {disfmarker} of each of these dimensions that are getting sorted out. And then, um, if {disfmarker} if you work on getting the, uh, assembly lines together, and then the {disfmarker} the pieces sort of get ready to go into the assembly line and gradually can start, you know, start turning the crank, more or less. And, uh, uh, we have a lot more computational capability here than they do at OGI, so I think that i if {disfmarker} What's {disfmarker} what's great about this is it sets it up in a very systematic way, so that, uh, once these {disfmarker} all of these, you know, mundane but real problems get sorted out, we can just start turning the crankPhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and {disfmarker} take their {disfmarker}PhD G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Professor F: probably the on - line {disfmarker} line normalization because then it {disfmarker} {comment} it's {disfmarker} if we do anything else, we're gonna end up having to do on - line normalization too, so we may as well just do on - line normalization.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Professor F: So. Um. So that it's plausible for the final thing. Good. Um. So, I guess, yeah, th the other topic {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} maybe we're already there, or almost there, is goals for the {disfmarker} for next week's meeting. Uh. i i i it seems to me that we wanna do is flush out what you put on the board here. Uh. You know, maybe, have it be somewhat visual, a little bit.Grad C: OK. Like a s like a slideProfessor F: Uh, so w we can say what we're doing,Grad C: OK.Professor F: yeah. And, um, also, if you have {pause} sorted out, um, this information about how long i roughly how long it takes to do on what and, you know, what we can {disfmarker} how many of these trainings, uh, uh, and testings and so forth that we can realistically do, uh, then one of the big goals of going there next week would be to {disfmarker} to actually settle on which of them we're gonna do. And, uh, when we come back we can charge in and do it. Um. Anything else that {disfmarker} I a a Actually {disfmarker} started out this {disfmarker} this field trip started off with {disfmarker} with, uh, Stephane talking to Hynek, so you may have {disfmarker} you may have had other goals, uh, for going up, and any anything else you can think of would be {disfmarker} we should think about {pause} accomplishing I mean, the {pause} final nonlGrad C: Right. NonlinearityPhD G: uh, nonlinearity,Grad C: Um,PhD G: yeah. Is it always softmaxGrad C: it's sig No, it's actually sigmoid - XPhD G: or {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad C: for the {disfmarker}PhD G: So if you choose sigmoid it's o it's OKGrad C: You, um {disfmarker}Professor F: Did we just run out of disk,Grad C: I think {disfmarker} I think apparently, the, uh {disfmarker}Professor F: or {disfmarker}PhD B: Why don't you just choose linear RightGrad C: What's thatPhD B: Linear outputsGrad C: Linear outputsPhD B: Isn't that what you'll wantGrad C: Um.PhD B: If you're gonna do a KL Transform on it.Grad C: Right, right. Right, but during the training, we would train on sigmoid - XPhD B: Oh, you {disfmarker} YeahGrad C: and then at the end just chop off the final nonlinearity.PhD B: Hmm.Professor F: So, we're {disfmarker} we're {disfmarker} we're off the air, or {disfmarker} About to be off the air. So are {disfmarker} are you going to be assimilatedPhD A: Resistance is futile.Grad C: Exactly. Um, yeah, so I I've been looking at, uh, uh, TIMIT stuff. Um, the {disfmarker} the stuff that we've been working on with TIMIT, trying to get a, um {disfmarker} a labels file so we can, uh, train up a {disfmarker} train up a net on TIMIT and test, um, the difference between this net trained on TIMIT and a net trained on digits alone. Um, and seeing if {disfmarker} if it hurts or helps.Professor F: Mm - hmm.Grad C: Anyway.Professor F: And again, when y just to clarify, when you're talking about training up a net, you're talking about training up a net for a tandem approachGrad C: Yeah, yeah. Um. Mm - hmm.Professor F: And {disfmarker} and the inputs are PLP and delta and that sort of thing,Grad C: Well, the inputs are one dimension of the cube,Professor F: or {disfmarker}Grad C: which, um, we've talked about it being, uh, PLP, um, M F C Cs, um, J - JRASTA, JRASTA - LDA {disfmarker}PhD G: Hmm.Professor F: Yeah, but your initial things you're making one choice there,Grad C: Yeah,Professor F: rightGrad C: right.Professor F: Which is PLP, or somethingGrad C: Um, I {disfmarker} I haven't {disfmarker} I haven't decided on {disfmarker} on the initial thing.Professor F: Yeah.Grad C: Probably {disfmarker} probably something like PLP. Yeah.PhD G: Hmm.Professor F: Yeah. Um, so {disfmarker} so you take PLP and you {disfmarker} you, uh, do it {disfmarker} uh, you {disfmarker} you, uh, use HTK with it with the transformed features using a neural net that's trained. And the training could either be from Digits itself or from TIMIT.Grad C: Right.Professor F: And that's the {disfmarker} and, and th and then the testing would be these other

Summarize the discussion on moving between data formats and the logistics of training models

The Spanish data was not in the desired HTK format and needed to be processed, which was turning into somewhat of a challenge. The team also realized that moving data was making their processes slower and they needed to rely on faster machines to complete their tasks. The team discussed various linguistic features and computational methods for linguistic analysis that they could incorporate.

the HTK format to convert.Professor F: Mm - hmm.PhD B: Hmm.PhD E: And, I don't know what. I ask {disfmarker} e even I ask to Dan Ellis what I can do that, and h they {disfmarker} he say me that h he does doesn't any {disfmarker} any s any form to {disfmarker} to do that. And at the end, I think that with LabeCut I can transfer to ASCII format, and HTK is an ASCII format. And I m do another, uh, one program to put ASCII format of HTK to ase ay ac ASCII format to ExceedProfessor F: Mm - hmm.PhD E: and they used LabCut to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to pass.Professor F: OK, yeah.PhD E: Actually that was complicated,Professor F: So youPhD E: but well, I know how we can did that {disfmarker} do that.Professor F: Sure. So it's just usual kind of uh {disfmarker} sometimes say housekeeping, right To get these {disfmarker} get these things sorted out.PhD E: Yeah.Professor F: So it seems like there's {disfmarker} there's some peculiarities of the, uh {disfmarker} of each of these dimensions that are getting sorted out. And then, um, if {disfmarker} if you work on getting the, uh, assembly lines together, and then the {disfmarker} the pieces sort of get ready to go into the assembly line and gradually can start, you know, start turning the crank, more or less. And, uh, uh, we have a lot more computational capability here than they do at OGI, so I think that i if {disfmarker} What's {disfmarker} what's great about this is it sets it up in a very systematic way, so that, uh, once these {disfmarker} all of these, you know, mundane but real problems get sorted out, we can just start turning the crankPhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and {disfmarker} OK, that was the real real important stuff. Um, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait on the potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what's been going on. So, uh, what's been going on Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here.PhD G: Um. {vocalsound} Well, preparation of the French test data actually.Professor F: OK.PhD G: So, {vocalsound} it means that um, well, it is, uh, a digit French database of microphone speech, downsampled to eight kilohertz and I've added noise to one part, with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises. And, @ @ so this is a training part. And then {pause} the remaining part, I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises. So we can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready. I'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task. And, yeah.Professor F: OK Uh, So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on, or {disfmarker} Yeah. OK.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: And again, I guess the p the plan is, uh, to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What's the plan againPhD G: The plan with {pause} these dataProfessor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what's {disfmarker} y You just described what you've been doing. So if you could remind me of what you're going to be doing.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Oh, this is {disfmarker} yeah, yeah.PhD G: Uh, yeah.Grad C: Tell him about the cube.PhD G: Well. The cube I should tell him about the cubeGrad C: Yeah.Professor F: Oh! Cube. Yeah.PhD G: Yeah.PhD E: Fill in the cube.PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker} actually like a limit {pause} on the computation load, or d latency, or something like that for Aurora taskProfessor F: Oh yeah, we haven't talked about any of that at all, have weGrad C: No.Professor F: Yeah, so, there's not really a limit. What it is is that there's {disfmarker} there's, uh {disfmarker} it's just penalty, you know That {disfmarker} that if you're using, uh, a megabyte, then they'll say that's very nice, but, of course, it will never go on a cheap cell phone.PhD B: OK.Professor F: Um. And, u uh, I think the computation isn't so much of a problem. I think it's more the memory. Uh, and, expensive cell phones, exa expensive hand - helds, and so forth, are gonna have lots of memory. So it's just that, uh, these people see the {disfmarker} the cheap cell phones as being still the biggest market, so.PhD B: Mm - hmm.Professor F: Um. But, yeah, I was just realizing that, actually, it doesn't explode out, um {disfmarker} It's not really two to the seventh. But it's {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} i i it doesn't really explode out the number of trainings cuz these were all trained individually. Right So, uh, if you have all of these nets trained some place, then, uh, you can combine their outputs and do the KL transformation and so forthGrad C: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and {disfmarker} and, uh {disfmarker} So, what it {disfmarker} it blows out is the number of uh testings. And, you know {disfmarker} and the number of times you do that last part. But that last part, I think, is so {disfmarker} has gotta be pretty quick, so. Uh. Right I mean, it's just running the data through {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh.PhD A: But wh what about a net that's trained not {disfmarker} we don't have a strict prohibition on memory size, and {disfmarker} and computational complexity, uh, clearly there's some limitation to it. So if we have to {disfmarker} if we say we have to have a pitch detector, say, if we {disfmarker} if we're trying to incorporate pitch information, or at least some kind of harmonic {disfmarker} harmonicity, or something, this is another whole thing, take a while to develop. Anyway, it's a very very interesting topic. I mean, one {disfmarker} I think one of the {disfmarker} a lot of people would say, and I think Dan would also, uh, that one of the things wrong with current speech recognition is that we {disfmarker} we really do throw away all the harmonicity information. Uh, we try to get spectral envelopes. Reason for doing that is that most of the information about the phonetic identity is in the spectral envelopes are not in the harmonic detail. But the harmonic detail does tell you something. Like the fact that there is harmonic detail is {disfmarker} is real important. So. Um. So, uh. So I think {disfmarker} Yeah. So {disfmarker} wh that {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} the other suggestion that just came up was, well what about having him {pause} work on the, uh, {pause} multilingual super f superset {pause} kind of thing. Uh, coming up with that and then, you know, training it {disfmarker} training a net on that, say, um, from {disfmarker} from, uh {disfmarker} from TIMIT or something. Is that {disfmarker} or uh, for multiple databases. What {disfmarker} what would you {disfmarker} what would you think it would {disfmarker} wh what would this task consist ofPhD G: Yeah, it would consist in, uh, well, um, creating the {disfmarker} the superset, and, uh, modifying the lab labels for matching the take their {disfmarker}PhD G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Professor F: probably the on - line {disfmarker} line normalization because then it {disfmarker} {comment} it's {disfmarker} if we do anything else, we're gonna end up having to do on - line normalization too, so we may as well just do on - line normalization.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Professor F: So. Um. So that it's plausible for the final thing. Good. Um. So, I guess, yeah, th the other topic {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} maybe we're already there, or almost there, is goals for the {disfmarker} for next week's meeting. Uh. i i i it seems to me that we wanna do is flush out what you put on the board here. Uh. You know, maybe, have it be somewhat visual, a little bit.Grad C: OK. Like a s like a slideProfessor F: Uh, so w we can say what we're doing,Grad C: OK.Professor F: yeah. And, um, also, if you have {pause} sorted out, um, this information about how long i roughly how long it takes to do on what and, you know, what we can {disfmarker} how many of these trainings, uh, uh, and testings and so forth that we can realistically do, uh, then one of the big goals of going there next week would be to {disfmarker} to actually settle on which of them we're gonna do. And, uh, when we come back we can charge in and do it. Um. Anything else that {disfmarker} I a a Actually {disfmarker} started out this {disfmarker} this field trip started off with {disfmarker} with, uh, Stephane talking to Hynek, so you may have {disfmarker} you may have had other goals, uh, for going up, and any anything else you can think of would be {disfmarker} we should think about {pause} accomplishing I mean,

What concerns did the team have about disk space

The professor expressed that copying the information between drives clogged the network and slowed down their task. Though, the team was getting four more 36 GB drives. The professor also wanted to get more information on space available on computational servers.

the HTK format to convert.Professor F: Mm - hmm.PhD B: Hmm.PhD E: And, I don't know what. I ask {disfmarker} e even I ask to Dan Ellis what I can do that, and h they {disfmarker} he say me that h he does doesn't any {disfmarker} any s any form to {disfmarker} to do that. And at the end, I think that with LabeCut I can transfer to ASCII format, and HTK is an ASCII format. And I m do another, uh, one program to put ASCII format of HTK to ase ay ac ASCII format to ExceedProfessor F: Mm - hmm.PhD E: and they used LabCut to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to pass.Professor F: OK, yeah.PhD E: Actually that was complicated,Professor F: So youPhD E: but well, I know how we can did that {disfmarker} do that.Professor F: Sure. So it's just usual kind of uh {disfmarker} sometimes say housekeeping, right To get these {disfmarker} get these things sorted out.PhD E: Yeah.Professor F: So it seems like there's {disfmarker} there's some peculiarities of the, uh {disfmarker} of each of these dimensions that are getting sorted out. And then, um, if {disfmarker} if you work on getting the, uh, assembly lines together, and then the {disfmarker} the pieces sort of get ready to go into the assembly line and gradually can start, you know, start turning the crank, more or less. And, uh, uh, we have a lot more computational capability here than they do at OGI, so I think that i if {disfmarker} What's {disfmarker} what's great about this is it sets it up in a very systematic way, so that, uh, once these {disfmarker} all of these, you know, mundane but real problems get sorted out, we can just start turning the crankPhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and {disfmarker} OK, that was the real real important stuff. Um, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait on the potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what's been going on. So, uh, what's been going on Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here.PhD G: Um. {vocalsound} Well, preparation of the French test data actually.Professor F: OK.PhD G: So, {vocalsound} it means that um, well, it is, uh, a digit French database of microphone speech, downsampled to eight kilohertz and I've added noise to one part, with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises. And, @ @ so this is a training part. And then {pause} the remaining part, I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises. So we can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready. I'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task. And, yeah.Professor F: OK Uh, So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on, or {disfmarker} Yeah. OK.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: And again, I guess the p the plan is, uh, to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What's the plan againPhD G: The plan with {pause} these dataProfessor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what's {disfmarker} y You just described what you've been doing. So if you could remind me of what you're going to be doing.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Oh, this is {disfmarker} yeah, yeah.PhD G: Uh, yeah.Grad C: Tell him about the cube.PhD G: Well. The cube I should tell him about the cubeGrad C: Yeah.Professor F: Oh! Cube. Yeah.PhD G: Yeah.PhD E: Fill in the cube.PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker} actually take their {disfmarker}PhD G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Professor F: probably the on - line {disfmarker} line normalization because then it {disfmarker} {comment} it's {disfmarker} if we do anything else, we're gonna end up having to do on - line normalization too, so we may as well just do on - line normalization.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Professor F: So. Um. So that it's plausible for the final thing. Good. Um. So, I guess, yeah, th the other topic {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} maybe we're already there, or almost there, is goals for the {disfmarker} for next week's meeting. Uh. i i i it seems to me that we wanna do is flush out what you put on the board here. Uh. You know, maybe, have it be somewhat visual, a little bit.Grad C: OK. Like a s like a slideProfessor F: Uh, so w we can say what we're doing,Grad C: OK.Professor F: yeah. And, um, also, if you have {pause} sorted out, um, this information about how long i roughly how long it takes to do on what and, you know, what we can {disfmarker} how many of these trainings, uh, uh, and testings and so forth that we can realistically do, uh, then one of the big goals of going there next week would be to {disfmarker} to actually settle on which of them we're gonna do. And, uh, when we come back we can charge in and do it. Um. Anything else that {disfmarker} I a a Actually {disfmarker} started out this {disfmarker} this field trip started off with {disfmarker} with, uh, Stephane talking to Hynek, so you may have {disfmarker} you may have had other goals, uh, for going up, and any anything else you can think of would be {disfmarker} we should think about {pause} accomplishing I mean, Grad D: Channel one.PhD G: Test.PhD E: Hello.Grad D: Channel three.PhD G: Test.PhD A: Uh - oh.Professor F: So you think we're going now, yes OK, good. Alright Going again Uh {disfmarker} So we're gonna go around as before, and uh do {disfmarker} do our digits. Uh transcript one three one one dash one three three zero. {comment} three two three {comment} four seven six five {comment} five three one six two four one {comment} six seven {comment} seven {comment} eight {comment} nine zero nine four zero zero three {comment} zero one five eight {comment} one seven three five three {comment} two six eight zero {comment} three six two four three zero seven {comment} four {comment} five zero six nine four {comment} seven four {comment} eight five seven {comment} nine six one five {comment} O seven eight O two {comment} zero nine six zero four zero zero {comment} one {comment} two {comment} Uh {disfmarker} Yeah, you don't actually n need to say the name.Grad C: OK, {vocalsound} this is Barry Chen and I am reading transcriptProfessor F: That'll probably be bleeped out.Grad C: OK.Professor F: So. That's if these are anonymized, but {vocalsound} Yeah {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh. {comment} OK.Professor F: uh {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} not that there's anything defamatory about uh {disfmarker} eight five seven or {vocalsound} or anything, butGrad C: OK.Professor F: Uh, anyway. Uh {disfmarker} so here's what I have for {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was just jotting down things I think th w that we should do today. Uh {disfmarker} This is what I have for an agenda so far Um, We should talk a little bit about the plans for the uh {disfmarker} the field trip next week. Uh {disfmarker} a number of us are doing a field trip to uh Uh {disfmarker} OGI And and push all of us through, and then finally figure out what's best.Grad C: Yeah. Um, I {disfmarker} I was thinking two things. Uh, the first thing was, um {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we actually had thought of this as sort of like, um {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not in stages, {comment} but more along the {disfmarker} the time axis. Just kind of like one stream at a time,Professor F: Mm - hmm.Grad C: je - je - je - je - je {comment} check out the results and {disfmarker} and go that way.Professor F: Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. No, I'm just saying, I'm just thinking of it like loops,Grad C: Uh - huh.Professor F: right And so, y y y if you had three nested loops, that you have a choice for this, a choice for this, and a choice for that,Grad C: Yeah. Mm - hmm.Professor F: right And you're going through them all. That {disfmarker} that's what I meant.Grad C: Right, right.Professor F: And, uh, the thing is that once you get a better handle on how much you can realistically do, uh, um, {vocalsound} concurrently on different machines, different SPERTs, and so forth, uh, and you see how long it takes on what machine and so forth, you can stand back from it and say," OK, if we look at all these combinations we're talking about, and combinations of combinations, and so forth," you'll probably find you can't do it all.Grad C: Mm - hmm. OK.Professor F: OK, so then at that point, uh, we should sort out which ones do we throw away.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Professor F: Which of the combinations across {disfmarker} you know, what are the most likely ones, and {disfmarker} And, uh, I still think we could do a lot of them. I

What did the team discuss about the cheating experiment

The team thought that doing a cheating experiment, where they try to identify the most important features, would be useful. Even if the results were not as great as they expected them to be, it could still be a valuable addition to their work. They thought that they could normalize the features using a sigmoid and try this for their work.

the HTK format to convert.Professor F: Mm - hmm.PhD B: Hmm.PhD E: And, I don't know what. I ask {disfmarker} e even I ask to Dan Ellis what I can do that, and h they {disfmarker} he say me that h he does doesn't any {disfmarker} any s any form to {disfmarker} to do that. And at the end, I think that with LabeCut I can transfer to ASCII format, and HTK is an ASCII format. And I m do another, uh, one program to put ASCII format of HTK to ase ay ac ASCII format to ExceedProfessor F: Mm - hmm.PhD E: and they used LabCut to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to pass.Professor F: OK, yeah.PhD E: Actually that was complicated,Professor F: So youPhD E: but well, I know how we can did that {disfmarker} do that.Professor F: Sure. So it's just usual kind of uh {disfmarker} sometimes say housekeeping, right To get these {disfmarker} get these things sorted out.PhD E: Yeah.Professor F: So it seems like there's {disfmarker} there's some peculiarities of the, uh {disfmarker} of each of these dimensions that are getting sorted out. And then, um, if {disfmarker} if you work on getting the, uh, assembly lines together, and then the {disfmarker} the pieces sort of get ready to go into the assembly line and gradually can start, you know, start turning the crank, more or less. And, uh, uh, we have a lot more computational capability here than they do at OGI, so I think that i if {disfmarker} What's {disfmarker} what's great about this is it sets it up in a very systematic way, so that, uh, once these {disfmarker} all of these, you know, mundane but real problems get sorted out, we can just start turning the crankPhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor F: and {disfmarker} used sonorants.PhD A: Right, OK,Professor F: Was what he was doing.PhD A: right. And they {disfmarker} they had done a cheating experiment or something, rightProfessor F: Yeah.PhD A: and determined that {disfmarker}Professor F: He {disfmarker} he di he didn't mention that part.PhD A: Well, Hynek said that {disfmarker} that, I guess before they had him work on this, they had done some experiment where if they could get that one feature right, it dramatically improved the result.Professor F: But. I see. OK.PhD A: So I was thinking, you know {disfmarker} it made me think about this, that if {disfmarker} it'd be an interesting experiment just to see, you know, if you did get all of those right.Professor F: Should be. Because if you get all of them in there, that defines all of the phones. So that's {disfmarker} that's equivalent to saying that you've got {disfmarker} {vocalsound} got all the phones right.PhD A: Right.Professor F: So, if that doesn't help, there's {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah.Professor F: Although, yeah, it would be {disfmarker} make an interesting cheating experiment because we are using it in this funny way,PhD A: Yeah.Professor F: where we're converting it into features.PhD A: And then you also don't know what error they've got on the HTK side. You know It sort of gives you your {disfmarker} the best you could hope for, kind of.Professor F: Yeah.Grad C: Mmm. Mmm, I see.PhD B: The soft training of the nets still requires the vector to sum to one, though, rightGrad C: To sum up to one.PhD B: So you can't really feed it, like, two articulatory features that are on at the same time with ones cuz it'll kind of normalize them down to one half or something like that, for instance.PhD G: But perhaps you have the choice of and push all of us through, and then finally figure out what's best.Grad C: Yeah. Um, I {disfmarker} I was thinking two things. Uh, the first thing was, um {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we actually had thought of this as sort of like, um {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not in stages, {comment} but more along the {disfmarker} the time axis. Just kind of like one stream at a time,Professor F: Mm - hmm.Grad C: je - je - je - je - je {comment} check out the results and {disfmarker} and go that way.Professor F: Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. No, I'm just saying, I'm just thinking of it like loops,Grad C: Uh - huh.Professor F: right And so, y y y if you had three nested loops, that you have a choice for this, a choice for this, and a choice for that,Grad C: Yeah. Mm - hmm.Professor F: right And you're going through them all. That {disfmarker} that's what I meant.Grad C: Right, right.Professor F: And, uh, the thing is that once you get a better handle on how much you can realistically do, uh, um, {vocalsound} concurrently on different machines, different SPERTs, and so forth, uh, and you see how long it takes on what machine and so forth, you can stand back from it and say," OK, if we look at all these combinations we're talking about, and combinations of combinations, and so forth," you'll probably find you can't do it all.Grad C: Mm - hmm. OK.Professor F: OK, so then at that point, uh, we should sort out which ones do we throw away.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Professor F: Which of the combinations across {disfmarker} you know, what are the most likely ones, and {disfmarker} And, uh, I still think we could do a lot of them. I take their {disfmarker}PhD G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Professor F: probably the on - line {disfmarker} line normalization because then it {disfmarker} {comment} it's {disfmarker} if we do anything else, we're gonna end up having to do on - line normalization too, so we may as well just do on - line normalization.PhD G: Mm - hmm.Professor F: So. Um. So that it's plausible for the final thing. Good. Um. So, I guess, yeah, th the other topic {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} maybe we're already there, or almost there, is goals for the {disfmarker} for next week's meeting. Uh. i i i it seems to me that we wanna do is flush out what you put on the board here. Uh. You know, maybe, have it be somewhat visual, a little bit.Grad C: OK. Like a s like a slideProfessor F: Uh, so w we can say what we're doing,Grad C: OK.Professor F: yeah. And, um, also, if you have {pause} sorted out, um, this information about how long i roughly how long it takes to do on what and, you know, what we can {disfmarker} how many of these trainings, uh, uh, and testings and so forth that we can realistically do, uh, then one of the big goals of going there next week would be to {disfmarker} to actually settle on which of them we're gonna do. And, uh, when we come back we can charge in and do it. Um. Anything else that {disfmarker} I a a Actually {disfmarker} started out this {disfmarker} this field trip started off with {disfmarker} with, uh, Stephane talking to Hynek, so you may have {disfmarker} you may have had other goals, uh, for going up, and any anything else you can think of would be {disfmarker} we should think about {pause} accomplishing I mean, OK, that was the real real important stuff. Um, I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait on the potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what's been going on. So, uh, what's been going on Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here.PhD G: Um. {vocalsound} Well, preparation of the French test data actually.Professor F: OK.PhD G: So, {vocalsound} it means that um, well, it is, uh, a digit French database of microphone speech, downsampled to eight kilohertz and I've added noise to one part, with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises. And, @ @ so this is a training part. And then {pause} the remaining part, I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises. So we can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready. I'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task. And, yeah.Professor F: OK Uh, So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on, or {disfmarker} Yeah. OK.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: And again, I guess the p the plan is, uh, to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What's the plan againPhD G: The plan with {pause} these dataProfessor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what's {disfmarker} y You just described what you've been doing. So if you could remind me of what you're going to be doing.PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Oh, this is {disfmarker} yeah, yeah.PhD G: Uh, yeah.Grad C: Tell him about the cube.PhD G: Well. The cube I should tell him about the cubeGrad C: Yeah.Professor F: Oh! Cube. Yeah.PhD G: Yeah.PhD E: Fill in the cube.PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker} actually

Summarize the meeting

The meeting included an introduction to the project, the mechanics of training the data, standardizing the data for the models, the time involved, and planning efficient use of computational resources. The team members shared and discussed the existing model as well as the tests they intended to run. There was a problem standardizing labels as well as converting HTK labels to the format that the team wanted. Adding more dimensions to the current model was also causing concern because of the upper bound on computational resources.

we need authors who can be developed, and authors who would be willing to work with the publishers. That's a very specific theme within one of the ideas of the seminars with publishers.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Would that market be viable without any sort of subsidy, if it were to develop bilingually Or do we have to accept that they have to have an element of public subsidyGareth Pierce: Our view in the WJEC is that subsidy will be necessary. But we could rethink the model for the subsidy, perhaps. At the moment, the subsidy is described as a subsidy for the Welsh-medium version. Why not rethink that and think of a subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the Welsh curriculum And perhaps we would need a little more funding for that. But there will be organisations such as the WJEC who will still be interested in contributing, because we are a charity, and within our mission is investment in various things that supports education in Wales.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But in terms of where we are now, resources have to be translated. I struggle at times to understand why it takes so much time to translate a resource. I would like to know better, perhaps, what the main barriers are in that sense. But also, how long is acceptable to wait for a translation, in your viewMike Ebbsworth: We've done a great deal of work recently, over recent years, to ensure that that delay between having an English version and a Welsh version is reduced. We are highly aware of the fact that the best-case scenario is that the Welsh and the English are available simultaneously. In those terms, we've taken huge steps forward with the publishers that we've named this morning, so that we have discussed translation as the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.Gareth Pierce: And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily--pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Darren.Darren Millar AM: I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you're telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it's already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbookMike Ebbsworth: We can only work on those books that are in build their teams, and develop skills within those teams, and to have enough certainty that this is worth doing. And therefore, those are the sort of issues that we're starting a discussion on, in the hope of having a discussion in June to move that forward. Of course, Welsh Government, Qualifications Wales and other stakeholders are part of this discussion, not only WJEC, but we've been part of initiating that discussion.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Is this developing at the pace that you would like to see it developingGareth Pierce: Yes, I think, and there is some enthusiasm. For example, a number of publishers in Wales are within an association describing itself as Cwlwm Cyhoeddwyr Cymru. Myrddin ap Dafydd is chair of Cwlwm at the moment, and there is enthusiasm and vision, certainly. So, there's a wonderful opportunity, I think, for Wales to interpret these possibilities swiftly and then hopefully take action on them.Llyr Gruffydd AM: And we're talking here not just about translating but developing resources, and the point, I think, is an important one around some of the evidence that we've received about the importance of developing resources naturally bilingually from the very beginning, rather than having to translate something. Because there have been comments that translations are clunky, difficult to follow and not--I'm not saying that they're not fit for purpose, but certainly don't facilitate teaching, perhaps, as easily as one would wish.Gareth Pierce: Yes, I would agee, and that begins with the authors, doesn't it We must have the authors--Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, the expertise, and the same capacty with the publishers as well.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we do want to nurture authors within Wales, particularly given that the new curriculum has to do justice to a Welsh dimension within the curriculum in so many different subjects. So, Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue--clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to

Summarize the role of Qualification Wales, according to Philip Blaker.

Qualification Wales was the regulator of the awarding bodies, mainly focusing on the design of the qualifications and the delivery of the assessment. They were also responsible for maintaining standards, making sure that the grades people got were fair through comparable outcomes.

that video--they are available in English only. Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are that are worth translating And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a few websites, or a few case studies, in this big external digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers'time. But I also think that the use of both languages is an interesting one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the A-level classes I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way of enriching the teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translating happening, and perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Just to pick up on your point on the additional materials, whose role would it be to asses this or to take that overview, and then to respond to the demandGareth Pierce: Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.Mike Ebbsworth: Yes. That is extremely important--to identify, as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and the consortia, and ensuring then that we are focusing on those things that need that attention.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But would you-- The question I'm asking those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.Gareth Pierce: And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily--pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Darren.Darren Millar AM: I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you're telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it's already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbookMike Ebbsworth: We can only work on those books that are in Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they we need authors who can be developed, and authors who would be willing to work with the publishers. That's a very specific theme within one of the ideas of the seminars with publishers.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Would that market be viable without any sort of subsidy, if it were to develop bilingually Or do we have to accept that they have to have an element of public subsidyGareth Pierce: Our view in the WJEC is that subsidy will be necessary. But we could rethink the model for the subsidy, perhaps. At the moment, the subsidy is described as a subsidy for the Welsh-medium version. Why not rethink that and think of a subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the Welsh curriculum And perhaps we would need a little more funding for that. But there will be organisations such as the WJEC who will still be interested in contributing, because we are a charity, and within our mission is investment in various things that supports education in Wales.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But in terms of where we are now, resources have to be translated. I struggle at times to understand why it takes so much time to translate a resource. I would like to know better, perhaps, what the main barriers are in that sense. But also, how long is acceptable to wait for a translation, in your viewMike Ebbsworth: We've done a great deal of work recently, over recent years, to ensure that that delay between having an English version and a Welsh version is reduced. We are highly aware of the fact that the best-case scenario is that the Welsh and the English are available simultaneously. In those terms, we've taken huge steps forward with the publishers that we've named this morning, so that we have discussed translation as

What did Gareth Pierce think of the translation of materials between the two languages

Gareth Pierce was aware that many websites they referred to in their resources and many case studies were purely in English, while it was the Welsh language that was used in the educational context. Gareth Pierce believed it was very unfortunate for different schools to translate materials independently from each other, concluding that it would be necessary to translate materials in both languages to enable teachers to refer to terms in both languages.