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41b5c39a9e13-90 | as a student first It Oxford then as a fellow at Cambridge I've traveled down there a lot of friends there can you imagine the disproportionate clout that the United Kingdom gets because of the BBC oh yes disproportionate to its economy to everything and I think we need to think about that as a country so I always look at larger projects which will serve a larger National goal and I think this could be it this could be it you know and and and when we started out with Reuters in in times now I had this Newsroom full of people I don't know it was where in your time we had we had The Newsroom full of Americans and British and Chinese and it was wonderful world bulletin yeah yeah people were even abusing each other in Hindi in The Newsroom and it was quite wonderful so I realized that news is this ever flowing thing you know yeah ever flowing but your your Ambitions and everything that you want to do centers around uh just journalism isn't it you | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-91 | do centers around uh just journalism isn't it you wouldn't want to do anything beyond journalism of course not no rajasito oh great crazy you would be better with the Lok Sabha seat forget I'll tell you let me tell you yeah let me tell you why not public service please don't put that question I'll tell you one thing I I there at the at the height of the scams there was this Minister who said let's have lunch okay and he chased me so I said we'd have lunch and over the lunch after some time he asked this question as we were heading to dessert and I was not coming to the point he said what about public services you know a person like you should serve the country I said I'm paying the bill and leaving it's a it come on [Music] excited about the next day and I think this is if I can do this for the rest of my life it'll be very fulfilling so I can be a very fulfilling career I think I | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-92 | can be a very fulfilling career I think I can't in life can you imagine me as a politician no no I can't be I'd be a pain for everyone yeah it would be difficult imagine you I can imagine if it was a politician but not within a political party I don't think anybody can control you in living a political party I I just love what I do and I think that natural career progression that in lutense you know people like to have you know abhi now I need to be but there are enough worthy people to be in the Rajasthan but no this respect why do I why do I need to be there I'm very happy where I am okay uh and and by the way I I mean the media is going to go through such a dramatic series of events and where can you serve your country best is what I ask I've already got an opportunity I'm so lucky you know I'm maybe one among 10 000 or a million who is in this position today to play | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-93 | a million who is in this position today to play a role and of late when we recruit young journalists when they come into our Newsroom it's such a joy to meet a 22 year old who's come in and then they ask you questions and I think I have the next 10 years 20 years to guide people do new stuff so but I'm happy before I even tried did you did you know it was completely organic completely organic where do you learn these words these are sort of keywords in the digital world organic growth everybody wants to know that when you do these debates it's so high octane so high temperature this ice look at him as my protege yes of course so this is pride in him I was like I can't do this 10 10 pm debate I can't sleep at night how do you sleep at night after that high energy debate or no so everybody's screaming over each other you're also screaming and then they they come on your show and they abuse you on the your show | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-94 | your show and they abuse you on the your show and you don't get ruffled yeah I love doing it why is he shouting back at them they're saying all kinds of things how do you sleep what do you it doesn't uh it's the only time in the day I really let my head down everything is done I look forward to about 7 38 it's like the time of the day when you know everything is done you know administrative yeah Financial HR organizational legal meetings and yeah now legal legal legal legal more legal more Fier more case these state governments never tired of filing Affairs against us and me so 7 30 is a time when you feel like okay now my time is coming it's my me time hmm it's my me time and and I feel very happy I mean there are days when I felt stressed before going in but at the end of 11 o'clock I feel very happy so I I really enjoy it one of the another question which many viewers listeners have is that journalists are | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-95 | which many viewers listeners have is that journalists are often very close to politicians you know the proximity and uh then journalists start getting this aura about them then humby important hey and then people start believing that oh these guys can get things done so that's what I want to ask you is that is it is it true does one get this Larger than Life ego that you know I can't even get everything done in Republic I have to get 10 permissions from all our senior colleagues to get things done so no it doesn't apply to me a and he's right I've been sitting in Mumbai for for the last uh 17 years so I'm okay and I mean I don't know yeah maybe these are this is the kind of stuff that I used to hear when I was here but I think the country has changed I'm I I'm I'm I'm so happy and I feel this country is going through a liberating experience where that kind of stuff where media persons could open doors does not happen in Daily | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-96 | media persons could open doors does not happen in Daily no and I think that's a lot of discomfort that some old fashioned journalists have with this present government that you can't open doors yeah it's not important to be seen anymore and I think it's good yeah it's not disdain Sometimes some journalists see this as oh the government has disdained for us I think there needs to be what would I call a church State divide or equivalent of that there needs to be a little distance right and the proximity is not necessary that kind of proximity proximity is not necessary you are reporting the news why do you need to be carried around in a government plane why do you need bottles of champagne to be pulled out and then you're asking questions on who is going to fund the losses of Kingfisher and the prime minister is saying we have a responsibility towards Mr Vijay Malia's Airline while you are sipping taxpayer paid champagne having a ball asking a prime minister why | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-97 | champagne having a ball asking a prime minister why he's not funding Kingfisher and then coming and writing articles about it not once asking about whether this is state sponsored corruption so you know I'm just giving one example that one question to Manmohan Singh that was asked you should go back in the Ani archives and see his answer yeah I was and I pinched myself that I was a prime minister promising committed taxpayer revenues to save a struggling Airline yeah right and an airline that was had proximity at that point of time Vijay mallya was very close now the Congress establishment so what did that proximity Serve the People of this country ask a counter question way before we came and we changed the narrative over the last 10 years because for 60 years before us before I was an editor this proximity that journalists and editors and media organizations had with governments what good did it do to the people of this country it got them nothing it is the greatest disservice in the | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-98 | them nothing it is the greatest disservice in the name of proximity now the same people who were used to that level of proximity are now complaining that the government is not giving us access is it the government's job to give access to journalists when necessary yes if you if you're if you're unveiling a light combat helicopter yes but why on a daily day-to-day basis do you need proximity to Ministry of Commerce Ministry of Finance Ministry of corporate Affairs Ministry of Railways defense I ask you Smita I was horrified the beat reporters would only be there to get jobs done to a point to which ishan yeah I'm telling you and you should share this with I thought I'll quit the profession the levels of proximity I saw proximity at all levels proximity to a joint security proximity to a minister proximity to a prime minister it was something to actually in the in the 2000s it was something to be proud of hmm not be ashamed about not connections it was so | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-99 | not be ashamed about not connections it was so disgusted so rotten so rotten so rotten please don't remind me about it but I feel answer to the question is I think this is great right now the journalists are being told you do your job you fund your bills you find the hotel to stay in New York if you want to if you want to sip the champagne you do you pay for your flight tickets it's very good so I think this distance is very good very very good what does arnab do to let off steam you said it is your debate but you know everybody has something or the other music Cricket something Sports Gym what do you do I walk I walk a lot and and music all the time all the time the only time I'm listening to music is when I'm on the move word music do you listen I listen to everything except guzzles everything guzzles sort of make me very if we slow me down a lot and so I listen to Everything I listen to soft rock | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-100 | so I listen to Everything I listen to soft rock I listen to uh I listen to Sufi I listen to everything my generation present generation every generation 50s the whole Jazz anything that makes you that gives you that sense of balance that one needs I you know the reason I'm asking is I remember that one incident when this stand-up artist came and harassed you on the on the flight and you just did not react you just sat and I was like you will SWAT it anybody will SWAT it and you just sat there without reacting at all how did you get that equanimity because I was watching a very interesting film called two popes that was a lovely i i i i i i i i who the actors there in that film um I'm forgetting it too absolutely I know so I had never watched a film in which two performers hold the film throughout and I never get the time to watch a film and if you're very honest very often people want to interact with me on the flight | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-101 | often people want to interact with me on the flight so the first thing I do is put on my headphones and I watch a film it also allows me to introspect so I had just begun watching a film and uh I don't I don't recognize the individual you are speaking about I thought there was a condition the individual had and and I felt that it is not my job it is the job of the security people there to do it and I finally thought he was shouting at someone else and and truly to be very honest with you I had my headphones on I like to watch at like if there's a scale of 0 to 100 I watch it about 90 so my volumes are high I cut off and I watch the film I did not realize much about this whole episode till I actually landed because I was on my way I think to interview to interview Yogi for something so I was more focused by the time I reached my hotel I wanted my notes on the interview and through | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-102 | hotel I wanted my notes on the interview and through the flight I was watching the film it's only when my reporters told me there was some social media traffic on it and that's the fact the interview it just struck me I have to ask you on this what really put you well we were always on the map but really like solidified it and the other person's political career plummeted was your Rahul Gandhi interview foreign I want to know what you went through what I went through yes I'll tell you after but I I mean the thing is that she sometimes things drag no yeah yeah so I I felt it was dragging because uh because women empowerment it was repetitive and it's not easy as well pardon me it wasn't easy for you I mean I'm just talking as a joke yeah probing them approving the man for an answer and repeating your questions in different iterations I sort of assessed him well in The Green Room before that because he had he had come up very | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-103 | before that because he had he had come up very excitedly walking up with me up the staircase telling me about my Wikipedia background and I realized that he was doing research on me and wanted to impress me about how much he knew about me and in the green room then he told me asked me how old I was and I said I'm so I'm this is my age he said oh you're much younger than me and I said yes but I have 19 years of work experience and and I I told him because you know he didn't get it he's just staring at you he didn't get what I was trying to tell him and then in the interview also I don't think he got it and and I I felt uh I mean you have seen the interview now yeah I think he blanked out after some time and the other thing is that you shouldn't try to impress I'm not impressed by any interview or anywhere you know Smitha when I do interviews there is one | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-104 | know Smitha when I do interviews there is one thing I tell myself that if this is my last conversation with the person so be it I never do an interview in the expectation of a second one you know and that is what I feel you said what should you tell journalism students I tell them this let this be the last one but let me not embarrass my profession by doing it in a way that I would not like the post script of the interview to be read so I think it was a very simple conversation which he could not handle appropriately appropriately and I feel that he and his party should not take it personally after all we are children of Merit we are people who educated ourselves we are worthy citizens of this country we know I am not here to give someone a walk over um they've boycotted your channel and one or two other channels and they they don't come on your debates and it continues they said that because it's it's very personal your attack on them I think that | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-105 | it's very personal your attack on them I think that I think there are many people in these parties who want to ingratiate themselves to their bosses by trying to pretend that they are going to be the uh you know the people who will save them from the attack of our Urban Republic and these self-appointed custodians in these parties are the biggest enemies of these parties and they presented with things like that yeah and let me tell you this people aren't quite missing them on TV it's fine people are writing to us to ask them to come yeah so it's okay we don't miss them and and we don't have this we see Smita we don't have anything to gain or lose by a political party coming I have at one point of time been boycotted by all parties when I did the story on 21 parliamentary secretaries being appointed wrongly by the ahmadmi party I was boycotted by them I was boycotted by the BJP when I questioned the late sushma swaraj and you | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-106 | I questioned the late sushma swaraj and you know at that point of time I have highest respect for individuals but I was only doing a story and even a pmo when you asked that question uh during Musharraf visit when you asked that question I mean in the pmo I know I know they said never again will we invite or no it's it's okay they I got I got invited once to a prime minister's press conference in 2011 and that is when I asked uh Manmohan Singh any about the scams and he spoke about the compulsions of Coalition politics so I was looking at it as a reporter I got news points out of all my interviews the interview became a newspoint yeah yeah the interview became a newspoint which was not the intention I was just simply doing a straightforward so so you've been in this rarified air where you were in you've met him and all none I have met him so not a verified air yes yes of the Congress | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-107 | so not a verified air yes yes of the Congress you have interviewed sorry no no just but I I object to the users you've seen him yes right in this sort of new relaunching that they're trying to do with this Bharat jodo and Etc do you think he can I mean he's a credible opposition or can he put up a real fight against the BJP election Machinery now this is a conversation only in lotion's Delhi this whole conversation can the Congress do it can it be done is a conversation that is happening within a 10 to 10 square kilometer area in this city I can assure you that and it is a conversation which is obsessing them and I think that I think that people on in in Delhi media should go out of the city and then experience outside this is not a conversation outside not a composition outside any party any individual can transform themselves but they have to be connected to this country in spirit in spirit not through social media campaigns not through what you call minders | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-108 | social media campaigns not through what you call minders we have if we want to have a political party with its 53 year old debutants and 70 75 year old minders good for them they can keep relaunching themselves I have no problem with it but it is not a matter which which I spend too much time thinking about in this country there are so many things to do I totally don't have an opinion on it if you ask you're asking me for my guess no not in this way not in this carefully manicured version anything that is uh that is true is always it comes out as as as Raw anything which is true is not manicured is not well planned it does not need minders if you're true and you're going to be accepted by the people of this country any political leader who rises from the masses will be accepted by the people of India in the future right and anyone who goes through a political finishing school right done by people who've lost themselves will never be successful | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-109 | by people who've lost themselves will never be successful in this country that is what I am observing I mean I it's not then I need to be right but that's my sense of it country has moved on the country has moved on and people are very aware very aware you know they don't look up anymore to any individual they don't look at anybody as a first family they don't look at anyone having being first among equals anymore there is there is a competitive Spirit which the Prime Minister alluded to in his speech when he spoke about an aspirational country right and aspirational Country will not look up to someone because they are from a family this is my view and I I love that aspirational aspect of India but the narrative in Delhi is still stuck 20 years back they're still asking in 2022 the questions which became irrelevant somewhere around 2006-2007. and this this narrative these people from Delhi that you like to put it their their desperate need for validation from the | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-110 | put it their their desperate need for validation from the western western media especially yeah you still see that these desperately people in the power Circles of of old who aren't in in the charm lot anymore you think they still crave that sort of Western sort of yes to what they're doing I have not come enough to this city to feel it trust me I'll do an analysis of this and give you an answer but answer roughly again guesstimate to your very straightforward question is I presume yes I presume yes but but but you know what happens things take time to change there is something called a domino effect there's something called the trickle-down effect things change at the top people tell us corruption goes at the top why does it go at the bottom it will take time because because it will take a whole value system and sometimes that can take half a generation to go through the changes that we brought about in the Indian media around 2010 the fullness of these changes will be evident around | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-111 | the fullness of these changes will be evident around 2025. this is my sense of it if it has taken me and people who worked with me a decade and a half to bring about a cyclical change in journalism then as a country it will take equally long it changes in countries economy culture Society ways of thinking media sometimes take a period of time and it will not read one individual or one organization or one political party to do it it will have to be a overall effort so when I when I talk when I when I when I when I look at the country people say you know 20 20 you know 100 years 20 47 I somewhere look around the country 2030 2032 because in my own sense I'm looking at it in terms of generations yeah see I'll tell you a simple answer to your question ishan when people who were born in the cell phone age become the principal wage earners and their families right which means I'm saying people born around 1996 right when they turn 30. | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-112 | people born around 1996 right when they turn 30. say approximately which is about 2026 that is when you'll see the fullness of the change so I'm very optimistic about India 20 25 2026 because you know it's a combination of things and I don't know if I'm communicating this well enough I'm a student of sociology and the reason I tell you is because economic sociology people everything is linked we are going through a digital Revolution yeah you know your generation I'm talking of your generation is fully a digital generation right your approach to life will be very different your responses will be very different right you and but the challenge for for us is to put in your generation the strong values of nationalism and to for you to believe in nation first so when we talk about media when we talk about political parties when we talk about things changing I can equally sit here and tell you oh you know what people in lotians are are cut off are insulated but I'm not saying that I'm making it as | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-113 | but I'm not saying that I'm making it as a sociological observation that if you come to Delhi five years from now you'll see a change in thinking there are still a lot of people who are living in a sense of nostalgia right they are looking for the return of the past I can understand it is true everywhere in you think that there aren't enough people you know who are for looking for the return of the left in Bengal for example you know there the people look back at the Glory Days and say we associate with that with our good times but I would say that your good times are gone the good times for the people should come what I'm seeing overall is a sense of decentralization in this country right and media Society everything is a reflection of that so there is no easy answer to your question but I I would say that there is going to be a hockey stick change in this country after 2025. by 2030 we'll be living in a different country by 2035 by 2035 | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-114 | living in a different country by 2035 by 2035 this country would truly have been transformed I would say confidently today you will not wait for 2047 to it for India to be a superpower the period of superpower them will come quicker than people expect and you will see it happening quicker as if we have political stability social stability over the next few years this aspirational assertive sort of population that you're talking about they will I mean there will be roadblocks I mean they this is what it is right I I in my opinion the Western media and all that at least some parts of the western media I mean they don't like this assertive India I think over there this is happening and you can see it in the Echo chamber of the say the foreign correspondence Club they have a similar sort of news angle to every story that India comes out of you know so I mean and you have worked with a foreign partner in the past as well we work with a foreign partner too we see | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-115 | well we work with a foreign partner too we see it over there I mean how do you look at it you know in this this newspaper called the financial times in London right they did a interview with me as part of this lunch with the Ft series and I had spoken about my aspirations to go Global at that point of time and I found that when they finally published a full page with my interview they presented me as this sort of you know slightly uh right of Center uh you know person who is not very grounded in reality on what can be done and that was because they felt that what I said at that point of time about Indian media Going Global is an impossibility now I tell you today if I say the same thing in London today if I say the same thing in Moscow today that I said in 2013 1415 they would take me more seriously correct and not just true of me Smitha I would say true of a lot of people because India is being taken seriously yeah | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-116 | lot of people because India is being taken seriously yeah India is being truly taken seriously and I think that it's very important for the Indian media to go out of the scrabbish mentality of fighting with each other to look about what is the purpose that they want to serve towards the country so I'm I'm very excited that's why I say Smitha that I don't like the sense of bitterness I hate you you hate me oh you are this party that party come on yeah I think we are not serving the country well true so we think we can say we can coexist but we can have different ideas as well of course exactly yes oh on that point thank you so much thank you thank you very much and I wish you and your podcast all the very best thank you and I hope I didn't say anything out of turn no absolutely not it's been very Illuminating and Illuminating yes that is the least thing that people say to me it's been very interesting and we've not quartered | 6rwylMR4ecc |
41b5c39a9e13-117 | me it's been very interesting and we've not quartered we've not fought we've not disagreed on anything in different points of view at times but yeah very interesting uh conversation especially about where media is going where it's headed and an interesting insight as to what you went through in you know during that trying period from 2020 to 2022 and hoping for better times thank you ahead thank you all the best thank you Smith and thank you thank you thank you thank you for watching or listening into Ani podcast with Smitha prakash do rate like or subscribe on whichever Channel you heard this or watched it namaste [Music] | 6rwylMR4ecc |
d63eea40e8c1-0 | I left Indian Express I was told that you won't last even three months I was quintessentially a document print reporter and I'd moved to television which had nothing to do with documents 17 years later I'm still here men are insecure yeah I mean the bosses I've had have been extremely insecure you don't fit that stereotype that you're not that young sexy looking thing arnab is somebody who actually got me into television and I've always admitted it and my mother always taught me foreign welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash today I spoke with navika Kumar who's the group editor of the times Network it was an interview in which we discussed a whole lot of issues including the nupur Sharma episode which got a lot of flack for the channel as well as for Navica and there were Firs against her we spoke about the future of Television we also spoke about television debates which are which are blamed for all the controversies which are happening in the | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-1 | all the controversies which are happening in the country today also uh people saying that hate is what is being generated in these TV debates listen in namika thank you so much for being part of ani podcast with Smitha prakash I'm going to begin with the obvious question which is like you are literally on everybody's uh in everybody's drawing room every single day like uh we watching you on times now with English Channel we watch you on the Hindi Channel weekend you're on frankly speaking and something so you know do people come up to you and like because you're in their drawing room saying they know you so well for a familiarity uh because they think they know you and you don't know them uh that happens uh to me uh sometimes when I enter a room or enter a strange place a hotel lobby or something or a airport uh there's some people who almost say hello to you and they don't know they can't place where they've seen you and you know they've seen you | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-2 | they've seen you and you know they've seen you on TV uh but they can't connect so I sometimes when I see that confusion on people's faces I go up to them and say yes you saw me on times now oh yes you saw me on times now navbharat I'm the same navika Kumar and then they say oh yes we saw you there we were trying to recall uh that did we know you and did we meet you at a party or something that happens sometimes but familiarity I think talking to you uh Smitha is such a change normally uh one is on the other side asking the questions and podcasts with Ani I think is uh doing a world of good to you uh getting people to talk I'm enjoying uh watching your episodes and are you quite uh burning a trail yourself and for me uh talking to Ani it's more talking to Smitha who's been one of the few friends that I've had yeah I've known you for a long long time and we've | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-3 | known you for a long long time and we've been working together and you know it's it's lovely to see friends becoming so successful uh and you know like I've seen you in the print uh side and then you made this shift to television that was quite a leap of faith navika so I'm gonna get to that but before that when we were talking about the familiarity angle I have to talk about your family they are so wonderful such a lovely sense of humor your family has and they're very grounded like they live with a star in the house but Zara Sabi if you show a little bit of you know many inches immediately like come to earth right star in the house is definitely not how they treat me uh and I think my children are the levelers so to speak keep me firmly grounded according to them I'm doing nothing right uh I don't know if you face that with your children uh but my children really think and and the younger one even more so critical | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-4 | think and and the younger one even more so critical of what I'm doing uh you know when you're 21 everything seems so yeah uh pointless yeah and the world thinks that you know like oh my God you're a very powerful person you come back home to reality Earth totally Earth and uh I remember my younger one when he was growing up I have a nine and a half year age gap between my two children and my younger one when he was growing up I came home and I uh said to him did you watch Mom on TV so he says I don't like that you want to avoid me and you go inside and hide inside the TV I don't like that at all so so sweet okay so now when you took that leap of faith navika I mean not many people you know when you have success in print and you've worked in print medium for several years not many people shift It's usually the other way around television is like so exhausting and so there's a burnout and you | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-5 | exhausting and so there's a burnout and you know in your mid-30s or early 40s you say TV and then you move to print you like the slower Pace most people like that but you did the other way around was that like a difficult decision for you to take Smitha my life has never been planned uh so it's not like I thought that oh I've done this and now I want to do this and this is how the ladder is shaped I didn't know uh The Next Step that I would take uh would take me up somewhere or would uh throw me down into an abyss because there was nothing Beyond it so life has never been planned um you know I I started working got married within a year had a child uh in the same year of marriage and uh had a difficult time and gave up uh you know working all together for three years brought up my child uh came back had to restart all over again so there have been so many challenges that I've never looked | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-6 | have been so many challenges that I've never looked at anything as a planned way of you know climbing some Hill or a ladder or something like that I'd worked almost two years before marriage and and up to my baby in in print then I quit it all then I freelanced for a bit and then I uh you know came back and joined back the Indian Express in 1995 and uh I only remember the stories that I did and uh the tough challenges that came my way uh for example I was expected to deliver on the first day I was given a beat in the Indian Express which was that the Telecom beat and the day was if you recall uh 1996 the day was uh uh you know raids in sukram's house oh yeah and and money was coming out you know the uh that was there and I was told by evening I have to uh you know produce a page one story and I didn't even know the way to San in Delhi so you know that's how it began | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-7 | in Delhi so you know that's how it began uh trial by fire and I only know that um you know I I sincerely worked hard I sort of went uh you know I had this way of getting into Crooks and crannies of various uh uh you know bhavans and also one you know just to tell our viewers or listeners who may not know that this was a period when we couldn't Google information we had to go to that sanchar Bhavan you had to go to shastri Bhavan you had to go to raksha Bhavan you had to get the information out you had to meet with people Google and it was the era of landlines because cell phones at that time were 16 rupees per minute and definitely you and I could not afford nothing no chance at that point in time so uh that's the way we started so when when the issue I had already worked for 10 years uh post my comeback so to speak in print in the Indian Express uh and I was pretty happy sorted | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-8 | the Indian Express uh and I was pretty happy sorted doing my kind of story yeah you were breaking stories yeah I was breaking stories in a Sweet Spot there and uh you know keeping my home work life balance and all of that was happening till uh uh times now was going to be launched and I was followed for almost three four months uh uh why don't you join us and I felt uh you know why should I disturb you know I I am a bit resistant to change so I said why should I change I'm doing all right and I'm in a sweet spot and balancing everything why should I go why should I go and you know what actually made me change my mind it wasn't the thought about uh you know going from print to television and how my life would turn topsy-turvy it was actually that I was traveling to Australia and I had my cell phone because of small kids I used to carry and newspapers never used to pick up the tab for uh that bill for international for international | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-9 | the tab for uh that bill for international for international calls okay and uh because there was no minute to minute reporting like in television that I learned subsequently so I was there and I got these calls you know asking me to join and the conversation wasn't ending because I had not even agreed to meet the people and finally because I wanted that call to end I said okay when I'm in Delhi I'll come and meet you because my bill was growing can you imagine and such a momentous decision and then there was no looking back because uh you know an opportunity was knocking my door and I felt uh okay they've asked so many they've relentlessly followed me let me try it for three months let's see how it goes and when I left Indian Express I was crying and I was told that you can come back whenever you feel like you won't last even three months you won't last even three months really why and uh you know a very dear old politician uh told me when I | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-10 | very dear old politician uh told me when I joined an informed you know people got to know that I had changed my job I was told that I made the hugest biggest you know gigantic mistake of my life because I was quintessentially a document print reporter and I'd moved to television which had nothing to do with documents 17 years later I'm still here good for you and I I brought document journalism to television yeah and made it interesting yeah a number of Firsts to your name and uh I think also you this you caused a kind of A disruption if I may say so because there were many uh who were you know in the print medium women journalists who did not make that shift at that point of time you know because when you're in your mid 30s or early 40s as an anchor there weren't many when you made that usually there were these young pretty girls who were doing anchoring whereas you made that shift and you came straight on as an anchor you didn't come | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-11 | you came straight on as an anchor you didn't come as a producer that's not really true because I didn't join as an anchor at all I uh joined as the political economy editor okay uh so I I was more in love with my reporting that was my passion that was my calling frankly anchoring was never or something and I'm not even a trained journalist I've done no a journalism course I've not done any mass communication course I'm a postgrad in Eco and I moved and I was covering uh more economic beats so to speak economy beats and I realized that if I didn't touch the politics of the political economy I would never make it to front page on Indian Express and that uh you know sort of resulted in the stories that I did uh and I I uh you know I thought many people think that anchor is the be-all and end-all I think it's highly overrated I think unless you've been in the in the gullies of the Ministries uh you know if you're | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-12 | of the Ministries uh you know if you're doing policy if you're doing government functioning unless you've been uh you know through all the floors of North block some people don't even know that there is a second floor uh and uh you know there are attics there where there are loads of files and information a lot of cover if you know what you're looking for and if you know the right people and if frankly you know how the system works and I I want to share this with you because uh you know whenever I went to North Blog the peons outside the babu's office with with mantri's office okay they've remained the same in the last 25 years so the common uh chat between us used to be and that is the philosophy of life you know governments change uh Finance ministers change uh we've seen it all bureaucrats bureaucrats retire but uh media uh and and a little bit of that uh things you know they remain the same so I used to know all the peons all | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-13 | same so I used to know all the peons all the guards in sanjar Bhavan in uh North block uh and you know somewhere in South blocks you know these are the people uh that I used to really hobnob with like you know when when you and Ivy attend press conferences we've pretended that in the past and you get this attitude thrown your way because you know from a bureaucrat or from a politician in your mind you're having this conversation and you're telling him you will be gone yeah you will be transferred to you know somewhere else I don't know how many of these conversations we've had and I've I've done the gamut you know I've done krishi Bhavan I've done food uh you know there was a time when I was doing do you know Russian prices issue prices of Wheat and rice which will never make it to newspapers or television but they were declared no no it used to be a front page news for the ET or uh somewhere because it was General | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-14 | for the ET or uh somewhere because it was General public information so I've I've covered that I've covered Monsoon forecasts uh I've I've covered everything sugarcane arrears uh then I've covered transport I've covered Commerce I've done WTO meetings uh by the Dozen and um you know so you which is why I wonder why did why did your uh you know former colleagues or even uh seniors say that uh you won't make it in television hardcore Journal I'll tell you why because you don't fit that stereotype that you're not that young sexy looking thing you are one Amma of two children and uh you know you are knocking on 40 and wanting to shift hello uh what are you smoking these days you know people would tell you and and frankly um Smitha it's all in your head what is it that you say oh you've made it and what is it that is actually some sort of an achievement it's different for different people yeah for me just to be able to work and then | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-15 | for me just to be able to work and then come back home and also get homework done was the work life balance at a certain stage in life that I needed and I did that and I wasn't apologetic about it and you got that work-life balance when that term was unfashionable there's something called Wildlife balance I mean I couldn't I didn't have a mother-in-law who would uh help me running the house uh so I had to do these things myself and there wasn't I mean I wasn't a one Sati savitri who was dying because she was bringing up her kids and working and a nirupa Roy who was uh you know stitching blouses I mean you know I had a guest here uh a doctor whose episode will run later is mental health expert and she was saying she was talking about this you know this poster uh iconic poster when we were kids like uh you know getting into journalism and all it was like this was like very motivational she said but this proved to | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-16 | like very motivational she said but this proved to be detrimental to the mental health of many women professionals who thought they can do everything and who were told you can do everything so there was this desire to prove to everybody there as a result of that women professionals our age group took on just too much do you agree with that uh point of viewed a Psychiatry with all due respect to them I have nothing to contribute to it uh um you know it's all very well it's it's actually each to their own what you devise for what works for you only works for you nobody else can prescribe and nobody can do it for you every household every individuals every individual's children every individual's home or work has its own requirement and demands true so how can anybody prescribe anything to you yeah you just do it at least I've done it through trial and error this is working this is not working you know that's how you get through life so is it is it like uh easier | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-17 | through life so is it is it like uh easier for women journals if they have a woman boss like as a woman editor do you feel that you're more empathetic because you understand what it means or is it the same how many women bosses are there Smitha yeah I've not had one have you no no so that's what I'm asking where was the choice there was no choice and men are insecure yeah I mean the bosses I've had have been extremely insecure uh they've not they've not allowed you or given you something uh out of choice you've had to and I don't hold it against them that's the way the world is you have to fight to stay where you are you have to fight even harder to get ahead uh and and that is the struggle in life that we've been used to and that's the way it is I mean uh there is no fairy tale made out of oh I've been through this struggle and therefore today I should be uh it's just the way life is | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-18 | I should be uh it's just the way life is your kids fall ill uh uh and and there is a big story it it normally happens around the same time uh when you have to travel uh your child will fall ill uh and and you have to balance and then you will have your guilt to deal with uh it's not somebody from the outside who's telling you it's not your workspace which is telling you okay you know it's just you yourself you you are fighting those battle as you said inside your mind inside your heart and you do and you try and somehow get a right balance sometimes you succeed sometimes you don't yeah and that's the way when you moved from a print to television how different were the newsrooms of a print uh because you know uh many young journalists when they come to television Newsroom the the immediacy the noise the anger the all those passions which run very strong and the the abuses because everybody because you know the pressures are so much in television live news | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-19 | the pressures are so much in television live news competitors why did it happen it's so noisy and angry a television Newsroom in most you know whereas in a print I'm guessing that you know it was a most slow organized slower yeah at least in the time when I was in print I don't know if things have changed because now most print places also have to do digital reports and stuff like that so that's changed quite a bit since I left 17 years ago uh but yes newsrooms in television are more noisy when I came in here uh Smitha uh you know uh the I found a difference that there weren't many people my age you understand the Newsroom watch average age was much younger and so I felt I was you know kind of working with the uh you know kids at one level there were a few uh mature people but in television I saw not many people were making friends it was it was pretty competitive in print in that sense I'm not saying it's any less competitive | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-20 | that sense I'm not saying it's any less competitive or there are more friends uh so to speak uh but at least conversations were relaxed uh at least you know I still have a group of friends from the express that I still go out to lunch with you know so so there is there is a little bit of this conversations that hap happened in a print a lot more than I see it happening in television in The Newsroom frankly knows no space for too much of uh you know camaraderie or even a relaxed conversation because everything is on fire all the time yeah the immediately in fact the print guys also say the those who work in print say that this immediacy factor is detrimental to journalism and that's why there's no depth to television journalism compared to print you know they sit on this pedestal compared to television journalists reporting which to a certain extent yes sir if you're doing print journalism you can take three days to file a story or you | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-21 | can take three days to file a story or you know at least in those days it was nowadays though because of web as you were saying everybody has to file some news I've I've not worked in a magazine so I don't know how magazines work but uh in newspapers let me tell you you've done PM visits right we've done it together PM yes during television for television we had to file a story a day right or sometimes three stories sometimes report on that and you remember Outlook in India today used to be the magazines who used to travel with us at the end of the entire visit they would file one story because that's all you needed to do they would do the sightseeing they would do everything whereas we had to file Blow by blow which everything you know there is a difference between there is a difference uh my only sense is that uh you know there is no comparison to each their own if uh somebody likes the pace of doing it once in a week so be it | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-22 | of doing it once in a week so be it for them uh and if they think they are adding much more value to it good luck to them but I think in in television uh what I feel uh and and I'm sure when these days I'm so used to everything I say being split into so many different fibers uh each you know meaning something else but I look at it this way that you have to be so much there if you are in television yeah the challenge to my mind in that sense is so much more because you have to be all there yeah when you're saying something you've got to have everything in your mind there isn't a script that you're reading from especially if you're reporting yeah and especially if you're interacting especially if you're doing a show uh you you've got to have it all here working in your mind and you have to manage a panel and you have to keep your eye on uh the possible line of debate the outcomes Etc so it's all you've got to be | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-23 | Etc so it's all you've got to be there isn't that more challenging than sitting uh if you're writing a print copy also at least you get an r or two whatever you get more time than a television journalist get and then you have a camera on you which is catching everything is enhanced expression yeah uh on on your face so you you know true true you know what it means yes I I I'm I'm not I'm not I've been on both sides of the fence and I've loved both sides so I'm not making a comparison I'm just saying that there are different challenges that you have to uh sort of meet and uh whatever works for you at that given point in time is great yeah let me get to the point of TV debates uh so what took you so long Smitha so you I mean anchors are now the source of all evil of society everything right from from the respected Judiciary Society your fault yes so you are the cause of all evil I mean everybody | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-24 | you are the cause of all evil I mean everybody says that Society is breaking up because of TV debates Hannah so and you were talking about how you have to be alert all the time so it becomes your fault how does that rest on your shoulders as I've grown up uh some some very uh you know very fundamental thoughts and principles of life I've grown up with for example uh my my parents are from Earth while Pakistan and uh you know during uh partition they walked and came my mother came in a train where people were being uh you know literally slaughtered around her so she's seen that with her own eyes and she would wake up in cold sweat uh till I was what 17 18. uh middle of the night she would have nightmares and I've seen I've seen that uh so uh and and my father when we were three siblings and when we used to fight I don't have a study table and my brother is pushing his elbow and my father would come and tell us | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-25 | his elbow and my father would come and tell us this story that and we never like our children we never kind of made fun of the stories our parents told us about their childhood my father always told us a story family some Park used to mention which I've forgotten Lucknow Park is that is struggle so uh from there then my father also started the first fertilizer PSU uh in the country and then you know went to a private job and stuff like that so we when we were born we had cars you know so my father used to always tell us there is no shortcut in life never is long lasting so sincerity and hard work is what will get you whatever so uh you know I keep that principle in my life that wherever I am it may be the first step of the ladder it may be down under wherever I am I am because of my hard work because I worked my way up I didn't have nobody to push me ahead so sincerity and hard work that was one principle | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-26 | so sincerity and hard work that was one principle and my mother always taught me again so don't bother you don't have to justify challenge we should not be going there to our maker and then have to lower our gaze and say okay how do you like you were talking about you got to be alert all the time it's not just what you're saying what the other person is saying in the debate and expert is saying and you don't catch that or you don't stop that person or you don't counter that person then also your it's your fault no but even if you counter and you set it uh you know set the record straight uh even then you have Firs against you because you haven't countered by screaming at that person throwing the person out foreign you ultimately have to answer your own conscience that what you did could you have done it better I think always always without question could you have done better there is always space for improvement so when you look back on that uh nupur | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-27 | so when you look back on that uh nupur Sharma episode I mean that that led to a lot of flack coming the way of the channel and you there were Firs and and well everybody knows the snowballing effect of that one debate when you look back do you regret could you have done things better or do you think that this is the pitfall of Journalism on television uh Smitha um the only the only thing that I feel is that can could I have done it better or like I said always everything can be done better my best debate I can still do better because you know in hindsight you know at that inflection point I could have said this but you are as good as your thought process at that time Plus in television there are a lot of things that are not visible today I can talk about it because uh the Supreme Court has heard my case I mean so far I could not even speak about it uh and I don't want to go because a part of the case is | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-28 | want to go because a part of the case is still pending yes uh but I uh I just want to say this that I've said this on the show but nobody wanted to hear that and nobody's heard the show in its entirety uh it was a 33 minute uh long debate and in the beginning I'm telling them that don't speak take over each other I'm in Kashmir there is a problem in connection oh you could hear clearly and and there is a time lag when you are out station you have worked on satellite links you know there is a time lag yeah it takes about 20 seconds sometimes more sometimes more and on the day this was and you can pick up I think it was 26th of May you can pick up the newspapers that day there were a few Encounters in that week where Hindus had been targeted so our office is in Lal Chowk area the internet was not functioning properly there the delays were much longer than they normally are internet is a bit iffy | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-29 | than they normally are internet is a bit iffy in the heart of Srinagar at the best of times and this was a day when internet really was uh rather terrible connections at that time and I've said this on the show in the beginning that I'm requesting all my panelists to please not speak over each other because there is a delay in communication it's very much there in that file that link which you submitted that I could submitted it to the court okay and I have said that there and I there is a time lag of 20 25 seconds so half the problem arises out of the fact that people thought that I was hearing and not reacting I was hearing those who picked that the so-called fact Checkers who picked only a portion oh well fact Checkers uh God bless their souls because as I said you're kind I don't want to bless I don't want God to bless the ultimate judge is the maker I leave everything to the maker frankly because Justice is not for us to do over | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-30 | because Justice is not for us to do over here and especially if you're unaccused how can you do or say anything so right now so that only that part of so then what happened then so then after after nupur said what she said she had she had also been provoked to My Mind by the other panelists I just came in and I said that this country has to be run by the Constitution of this country and this country's Constitution makes it imperative on both sides not to hurt each other's religious sentiments because these are questions of faith and this is ensured in the Constitution now to my mind I had put both people in their places Yeah by saying that the country has to be run now did I not call names to nupur Sharma should I have called names why I don't know did I call names to the other person on the show no I didn't um and it's not it's not me to call people names yeah and in this case by the time the delay and whatever | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-31 | in this case by the time the delay and whatever had happened I ended the debate with one sentence and to my mind I had put the perspective and the context where it should have been which is the Constitution but it snowballed into something so big and then this whole because fact Checkers love us fact Checkers lovers yeah I'm going to put that in quotes and though it's in a podcast with I'm putting it in quotes right the fact Checker so-called fact Checkers and Fitness that hatred I can't sometimes understand that you know this whole thing North Korean television news I can also sit and say that I can't understand some of your colleagues who worked with you for 15 20 years even to say that you know yours is North Korean television how do you deal with that people you work I will have very few friends uh Smitha in in the profession that I am in uh and uh you know my family not connected to any of the things that I do they are completely on the other | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-32 | things that I do they are completely on the other side of the fence so it's very easy I choose my friends and my friends are for life I don't have too many friends in the same profession yeah and uh therefore uh this conversation frankly doesn't happen in my friend's circle of course my friends have been very very kind to me the ones who are not in this profession but who are in other professions who've stood by me like a rock and some of them happen to be lawyers do you know uh I want to say this about my friends some of them happen to be lawyers my son is also a lawyer but he can't officially appear for me because there is some bar rule that disallows a child yeah it's so bizarre anyway but they're not say bizarre with the Judiciary you can't say that contempt contempt so uh you know my my son actually because he's a lawyer and he knew what the pitfalls were he was more worried than I was yeah I took it | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-33 | was more worried than I was yeah I took it in my style like you were that situation then because people were scaring me and there was so much hate and I you know uh social media is so full of you know that's something yeah they preach so much about tolerance but all the intolerances on social media especially the so-called liberals no they got after you liberals I am from a small town even on your clothes they make comments I can't understand I'm Benji you know somebody I don't know my name on social media is kachra I'm I I've trended with the name kachra Tha no my least you don't hit back I've seen that there are many uh journalists I can't I hit back I shouldn't cue take a deep breath listen to Mohammad Rafi there's nothing that you know an evening of Mohammad Rafi doesn't sought out for you navika please you going Mother Teresa Mother Teresa I'm telling you because my uh you know music for me is like | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-34 | because my uh you know music for me is like forgetting everything I've heard you sing you sing lovely sing I used to at one point in time Smitha it was my passion you and Rishi Kapoor my goodness I mean like amazing no uh um I can I can uh you know Siri so I'm like a serious you would need something to you know to cope with this stress so music is the way I I'm a regular South Delhi Punjabi I have many outlets shopping retail therapies ranked higher up music is there uh spending time with families there Khana Pina what is better than uh butter chicken and naan uh it even had in my family uh you know when the kids were this small they used to say rrbc day to day what is that rumali Roti and butter uh you know I I it's not like I don't have my bad days but I try to limit my Badness I don't want to be Meena Kumari with all due respect to Meena Kumari | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-35 | Kumari with all due respect to Meena Kumari tear jerkers don't turn me on I love my Karan johars I love that girl live like king size not by robbing the banks but uh you know wearing your pole Keys your designer lenghas and all so I can I can find happiness and you you can afford to buy it you can just uh designer bags sorry it's got a beautiful collection of sarees in fact that's one thing also you did like anchors in those days when you started anchoring they were everybody was in Western Wear you know jacket and shirt I don't think like that no so it doesn't go with my producers and directory he told me then first I was to I I was told to wear jackets and shirts it just wasn't me it just wasn't me I probably didn't do that much of uh uh you know Western Wear even in college I was more churidar kurta kind of a person so you took that to the screen and said this | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-36 | so you took that to the screen and said this is how I'm going to Anchor it is me I why should I adapt to others others should adapt to me okay that's the Punjabi India the Middle East it's okay I don't have a problem I was shocked when that uh when that comment was made about you and I was like uh we all looked up uh to this uh journalist with and said that she's our senior I mean we used to look look at it always right and to and uh in fact uh I don't want to name and you know say things but then you saw these Germans that that you know when she in fact wrote a book book on how when when she was in NDTV that NDTV English used to get all the all the you know bhav and all the finances everything was towards English and when she was in NDTV Hindi it was considered the poorer cousin and it was not the the right an entire book and she anchored wearing a saree | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-37 | entire book and she anchored wearing a saree she refused to Anchor wearing a western outfit and then she made a snide remark on you which which really got my goat at that time that how I mean I can imagine youngsters you stood up for me she's like I think uh the only one who stood up for me but uh journalism no no objections it's just ignore ignore because does it impact your life are you going to change because somebody said something to you also you like a good spot sometimes I feel you know because this television I'm not uh you know I can I can have a good fight I'm a Punjabi spiriter so this fight is going on TV channels I'm going to get to that also so the the unpleasant thing for me please don't make me lose my job I also don't want to talk to my friends also disclaimer all of you are also Ani's clients so for me it's a it's a difficult thing to talk and but and I've seen you all | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-38 | thing to talk and but and I've seen you all I've seen you I've seen or nerve I've seen Rahul shiv Shankar for 20 odd years Rahul and I even worked in the same Newsroom I didn't know that yeah we worked in the same Newsroom and he used to work with for the BBC News Channel at that time with Reuters and so we worked in the same Newsroom and then with or no you know his wife was my producer when I used to do a television show for doordarshan so I've known all of you to 20 25 years and worked with all of you you and I have covered press conferences together and now I'm seeing you all juggling with each other is very difficult for me but I have to ask you that why is it on air why are the fights on air why not why not off air I'll just say okay yeah if I ask him he'll say the same thing I see I I personally don't think that dirty linen should be washed in public | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-39 | think that dirty linen should be washed in public that's that's where I come from uh if I have a problem with you Smith and it's not like I am this Zen level of Tolerance and it's such a put on I I do feel angry but then I have I'll feel angry with people I know and friends I I feel more angry but then I sort it out with them yeah that this is not okay with me and I'll have that conversation with you where we'll crash it out and for me once it's thrashed out then it's down the tube it's flushed and covered forever okay and and then you move on because life means that there will be issues that will keep coming up now you can't you said this to me in 1920 then you said it in 1946 and then you said it in 1954. it's not it's not something that is a open bahi khata which you have to keep running okay so that I do with friends and uh you know I I sort out my issues | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-40 | and uh you know I I sort out my issues I cannot be a friend and I cannot speak with you unless I sort out the mess of the past if it's troubling me so that is the way I am after I've sorted it out and we've reached whatever mostly I'm sorry that's also a given and I have this uh you know if my friends are listening to this they know exactly what's coming um that's that's a starting point that's the starting point what is this so anyway sort it out and you know do a jumpy puppy and move on very Punjabi about my fights also okay but when you sort of finish and friends forever and move out um television frankly it's not the first place that we go to and you know I I don't believe in not taking names arnab is somebody who actually got me into television and I've always admitted it you know he got me into television I would never have explored this landscape if it wasn't his persistence following me and | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-41 | landscape if it wasn't his persistence following me and it was his phone call in Australia uh you know that uh got me you know my defenses low and the meeting happened and the rest as they say is history and I've learned a lot from him but somewhere along the line I don't know why there is there is something that he has in his mind he's never shared it something's been building up but there is there is a lot of uh what do I say there is a lot of bile in there now why should it be on television if there is a personal bile then it can be done I work for the company where he brought me he also worked for the same company yeah I have no problems in recognizing that foreign professional and the way he rose you know with the times now brand the way way he brought it up is something that's part of History who can change it why he has the bile why he has this thing is for him to say yeah hopefully you guys will sort | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-42 | for him to say yeah hopefully you guys will sort it all of you are including headlights today the only thing I don't know now if it is possible because he has put a defamation case which is going on yeah uh for two years or two and a half years or whatever it's been going on up uh up the point is you abuse a brand the brand belongs to a group which is 180 odd year group you can't no it's not a free run for everybody it shouldn't say maintenance you know the days of gandhiji are long gone people don't offer the other cheat these days yeah the and competition has become so stiff all we also represent I mean it's not my company yeah it's not my company you're speaking on behalf if if there is a brand that I represent then I have to fight for that brand because I've also given 17 years to that brand to that value system and there is a value system that exists in the times group there is so each Channel you know for viewers | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-43 | group there is so each Channel you know for viewers who are watching you guys each Channel every week saying oh we are number one we are number one if you ask me if you ask me and frankly you know this is like an autopilot again I mean it's uh you know it's been going on since times now was there and the tone tenor uh has only become Shiller uh no it's not just times now it's every channel headlines is the advertising pie so small that every channel has to have this thinking my first my first I'm sure in recent times especially uh since kovid there have been pressures and and then the whole uh box uh scam as it came out the trp scam as it came out did put a question mark As far as advertisers were concerned uh following which the government also suspended the trp system so uh I'm sure every industry needs some benchmarks to go by um my my sense is that are these trps the best way to go I don't know I | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-44 | the best way to go I don't know I don't think so even in its second avatar uh you know two big players are not part of the system so is it really a system is it sustainable at all this kind of a I don't know it's a it's a call frankly the stakeholders of the industry and the government which uh sort of is the policy maker in this they have to sit together and figure it out it's not healthy it creates pressures content uh isn't really the king uh you know good content so to speak and uh you know it it tends to make people Thriller um and and everything goes by then this is what people want okay that's what even the Judiciary saying that that all this hate and this fights which happen in the debate Hindu Muslim caste related television Society I mean what are what are we saying are we in the real world or not everything is television's fault are we running the country then by that logic then we are running everything | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-45 | country then by that logic then we are running everything so you know it's a very simplistic way of looking at things there is a change in society and I I believe that the society the younger generation even us Smitha just talk about yourself it was not the done thing when I was working we are doing this on karva chauth day yeah when I was working karva chauth was told to me that it was such a regressive thing on my face by my colleagues it's the same thing you know there's no I've just but at least we are we are not taking everything in our stride cave this is a given is remember navika when we were kids our parents would not you see if you if you are a student of History you could ask a couple of questions and say gandhiji or a nehruji or whatever but you could never question anything any decision taken by nehru that no no no because they you defy some people today there is no there are everybody has feet of clay | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-46 | is no there are everybody has feet of clay you can question anything there is nothing special I grew up in Bihar in a convent school it was in Mount Carmel Convent digwadi District or frankly history thank you okay you know you had those chapters which you had to learn where was the good and the bad what was about questioning at that point in time so that's what I'm saying so you didn't question right but today everybody is questioning isn't it that's a good thing that's a good thing and you will this is this is the time you know this is the cycle of things there will be a period Our Generation was not so questioning our parents told the told us that was the rule yeah and as journalists also you know it was like journalism but come back home there was no question you know women journalists couldn't do that hang out in bars and get a story which guys can my dad when my first job in ET bahadusha Zafar mark my dad used | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-47 | in ET bahadusha Zafar mark my dad used to sit in a car downstairs waiting for me to finish and I used to say it's you know creating a lot of tension for me and my father very sweetly would say uh we used to live in Vasan kunch those days and not Vasan kunj of today where everything is so well developed my father used to sit there that may be better you won't come in an auto yeah so you know it was Against All Odds if you got a story because you it was harder you couldn't go to say if you were in Delhi you couldn't go to India International Center or you couldn't go to Press Club which male journalists could do uh you know anyway so let me get back to television journalism of today would you advise young uh journalists that you know get into television journalists it's a fulfilling job sure why not in fact to all journalists I would say that whether it's print web um you know digital whatever television join journalism | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-48 | web um you know digital whatever television join journalism only if you have the passion for it and in our times we were taught that there is a very well defined line between journalism and activism today that line has got blurred and if you want to go back to the drawing board it's a very very well defined line that we were taught to respect I think we need to go back to the basics and look at that line the lakshman rekhas are important many think that that's not the case like I I tend to agree with you that activism or journalism like I I haven't seen you and I haven't done it myself of going to India Gate and standing with a banner and all that because I was the one covering it for whatever reason whether it was a Delhi rape case whether it was us even if your sympathies lied with the people or with the cause you didn't protest but I have seen many journalists who feel that that's not the case journalists should get involved in | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-49 | that's not the case journalists should get involved in that lines are blurred and it's because to my mind the traditional old school journalism uh thought process that I come from uh I think the line is very well defined and it should be respected activism is a different profession it's a different activity altogether journalism is different to my mind but of course fact Checkers if you remember I mean you've not done the foreign beat but you have done at times foreign used to tell me the Foreign Affairs beaters uh 80 percent protocol and 20 alcohol not interested in true okay God bless his soul but not true yeah I know what people used to say but you've done a couple of uh I mean I have tried and you've seen me trying keeping that is one thing that raises my blood pressure okay but in in many senior editors Joe foreign agency reporter where you have no egos agencies so these editors used to you know hobnob with and give Gyan to Prime Ministers so that is an activism of | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-50 | to Prime Ministers so that is an activism of a different level altogether isn't it and they Justified that for the greater good this was a different era when they were the greats and they decided uh you know the future governments the future foreign policies or so they thought uh I don't think on the present day there is any such greatness that has been assigned to us uh nor are we in the position to assign it to ourselves so you interview Prime Ministers home ministers these days everybody knows what they want to do and what how they have to do it I don't think journalists should uh ever ever uh think that they play some advisory role and there's a lot of criticism that also comes uh in you know to successful journalists like you and some of the others don't successful journey in the sense that come on yeah you are right up there it's not because you watch my channel there will be 30 will say then I'll become unsuccessful you are this humility is a little bit | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-51 | unsuccessful you are this humility is a little bit like you are if you say so Smitha you know like a Punjabi humility doesn't come easily to me but if you are saying so I'm happy to believe it you get what changes what changes you get you have to work hard for today's show for tomorrow's show as much as you worked hard for yesterday's show so what changes what is success success is you're as good as your last story is what I was taught when I was growing but see everybody says that you have access compared to many of the other journalists they don't get the opportunity they don't get the access which they say 2014 only a few journals have foreign my beat so to speak was Ministry reporting and I've done various Ministries so that was the beat that I sort of grew up with I've done that and I think I did it with the great deal of rigor uh with a great deal of success only through hard work because I used to go | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-52 | success only through hard work because I used to go down uh you know to get a story to the level and if time permits I just want to tell you there was a story that once somebody told me that there was a minister who came the first decision he had to confide was to give guns that had been confiscated by customs and he gave those two guns to his sons okay and that was the first decision that he took and I was a young reporter at that time foreign sitting in the Indian Express know who I'm talking about because they cleared my story and it was discussed and planned out in The Newsroom in Indian Express and uh near the airport at that time there was a new customs house [Laughter] in case you need help you can call out to him that was so scary it was like um foreign foreign stories out another time I did a story where I used to cover Telecom mtnl had put a antenna on top of the Supreme Court and on file it had | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-53 | top of the Supreme Court and on file it had Justified that we've written to the register that in return for the antenna we'll give cell phones to all the judges honorable judges of the Supreme Court and then the justification had been made on file that our cases are also going on in Supreme Court this will help in building relations with the Supreme Court Judge I see foreign s are paid by the Consolidated fund of India and judges are appointed by the president of India the building and the property is maintained by the you know government or or the PWD by Direction by the president is yeah it's a perk that is being given to them which is not in the pay or whatever which is fixed by the whatever system that is there to decide the judges speak so I remember I filed that story and there was total chaos in the top rung of my uh newspaper okay what do you think will go and I still remember that story went for uh legal opinion to falina riman okay | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-54 | went for uh legal opinion to falina riman okay and he said after it got published no no before because I mean the newspaper would have so these are the firewalls which are there in uh in newspapers but SC firewalls television Newsroom we don't have them that's why I guess because of the images a sum of uh some of the firewalls and uh you know shortcuts have begun to come in but actually this is the principle you have to get you have to get a comment from from the sources in this case it was the Supreme Court and 26 judges so it went for a legal opinion that will be held for contempt of saying this uh the whole process and I think two weeks and these were exclusive of stories so people sat on it for two weeks before a final call was taken and when it was printed uh The Heading the headline I still remember this was 20 years ago the headline read hello your Lordships this television news give you the same kind of satisfaction like this headline that | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-55 | you the same kind of satisfaction like this headline that you're talking about a different kind but it does it's heady uh office of profit I broke uh I think one month old times now and I was the first one to Break Jaya Bachchan first and I was the first one to go on air to say that Sonia Gandhi is resigning at that time I got calls from such high offices to get off air and that afternoon she did resign tell me these politicians whom you meet who you interview and all they must be getting mad at you also at times that they do so people think is this my autobiography no no that's going to be long later but tell me is this podcast going to end anytime soon are we getting all the secrets of my life since it's karva chauth you can Aram say go today to work this is what people tend to think that you know you're meeting with so many politicians there are selfies with politicians they don't understand there's something | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-56 | selfies with politicians they don't understand there's something called being friendly and a friend a journalist can't become a friend as such with politician right you can't even be friends with uh regular colleagues who are journalists isn't it blow your eyes out except you know some touch would few like you and me who can get along because we are non-competitive I guess that's true otherwise uh very difficult to have lasting friendships yeah you have to keep that that uh kind of I don't know whether you have to keep that or uh story Karo against any of them or the organizations does that happen but they argue so much on your channel and they say you're unfair you're allowing that one to speak and not us it doesn't matter to you anymore oh I try to do my best but beyond that um yeah that's a good way of looking at it that you know this is if if you expect somebody to give you a certificate saying that you're doing a great job one thing before I | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-57 | that you're doing a great job one thing before I conclude you started a Hindi news channel I mean you're basically an English journalist you learned how to speak fluently in Hindi though you're a Punjabi but that fluency in Hindi because I grew up in Bihar you forget but your thinking is in English and your writing is in English your journalism is in English was it difficult to adapt to Hindi I mean in our day-to-day our workspace it didn't it didn't matter language is I can speak Bengali okay oh wow okay so then now times now Bangla no too many Firs there I'm sure it will get resolved at some point I guess I like everything gets resolved in life I feel okay so we'll get you back as of now I can only say okay uh Supreme Court no coercive action so at least that was a that was a great thing more than me my kids and my family were feeling I know and what if they do it on a Friday then what will we do | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-58 | do it on a Friday then what will we do over the weekend cook the butter chicken and keep it ready in just in case well they want that uh okay with it or with the thought okay thank you so much for speaking with us navika and we hope to have you back soon really are there still some Secrets left some Secrets will I have friends left after this of course of course you will people look up to you because there's so much to be tell me which one I really want to meet no really because as a as a journalist who get got into television midlife as you yourself are saying you are an inspiration to many journalists women journalists who say yeah I mean it doesn't matter at what point of time we can make a success uh in television channel everybody uh uh you know can make a success of whatever they do uh it depends they have to have their own uh version of success that they are looking for and they have to love what they do just like I and still | W7ej6dvHqZk |
d63eea40e8c1-59 | to love what they do just like I and still uh in love with my job and my job and my hobby happen to be the same thing I still have the same passion uh sense of humor you have a sense of humor that's great you don't take yourself too seriously you shouldn't I mean I mean here today gone tomorrow nobody will remember asmita please believe you me so this whole Aura of greatness that we assign to ourselves we are not agents of change or anything um please oh that's a lovely one on that note thank you thank you so much navika thank you Smita thank you for having me and two women we really talk too much okay thank you for watching or listening to a i podcast with Smitha prakash do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you heard this namaste foreign [Music] | W7ej6dvHqZk |
4df588bf31fd-0 | I am a class traitor on so many levels yeah I have betrayed the IAS I've betrayed the IAS which my father was from I have betrayed um uh hindutva by eating beef apparently yeah I've uh betrayed uh the cultural norms of this country by wearing shorts and a t-shirt okay BJP hasn't moved away from the right-wing narrative in one important Point what made them right wing was Hindu nationalism these savarkar was an intellectual giant of his times yeah what happens with the left in India is they are never going to get political part again for at least another 15-20 years who made Rana are you big entirely the right wing everybody requires validation I'm unique I only seek validation from my dogs and my cats welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash today I'm going to be talking about the right-wing narrative now even though since 2014 there is a right-wing government in India the BJP is in power in spite of that the right-wing | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-1 | is in power in spite of that the right-wing narrative remains fractured the BJP wins elections yes the Modi government is unabashedly right-wing why do I say unabashedly that's because the Congress the UPA government could probably have been called left or Center left but in matters of the economy it pursued liberalization process it was Centrist some may even say center right let's come to the BJP it's seen as right-wing because of its obvious right leanings but when it comes to the economy its own supporters call it more left than even the left liberal parties that we have is the left actually liberal and is the right not liberal these conversations become extremely volatile on Twitter and Facebook so to discuss all this I spoke with Abhijit Ayer Mitra now if you follow him his podcast his Twitter Avatar he's there on uh television debates and he has very radical uh view he's seen by the right as one of theirs but at the same time they attack him because | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-2 | theirs but at the same time they attack him because he doesn't do things which the right likes as far as the left is concerned they have dismissed him as a right-wing person with extreme views he has a he's an extreme liberal if I may say because he believes that in in total freedom of thought and expression of thought in an extremely interesting conversation you know he's he's somebody who is written on Military Affairs he's written on on nuclear Affairs he he uh he does a lot of radar imagery research he's a researcher par Excellence but he talks on political views he talks about on social views so he he's a good person to speak to because he's attacked by both the right wing and the left wing in India and of course it made very interesting conversation thank you very much for speaking with us three name business right why you three names first thanks for having me on and it's three names because my mom is the ire in the mix okay and she decided that she | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-3 | ire in the mix okay and she decided that she did the Lion's Share of the work giving birth to me the nine months of tenancy and the delivery so she was like my name is going to come first and it is going to be there okay so so those who don't follow you on social media probably don't know about this I mean you're you your podcast your Twitter avatars and your fights everybody seen you on TV of course but you're this so big nobody there you know uh take you on because then it's like No Holds Barred so Abhijit is to be feared but I also know that you're this nice warm sweet guy also but you don't like giving that image right no no you want to be this nasty snarling taking on everybody yeah I think you know like um Sigmund Freud says everything goes back to your childhood I guess because I was the fat bullied child um I couldn't like fight back against people bashing me up so I came up with verbal | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-4 | bashing me up so I came up with verbal bashing as my defense mechanism that's also your Ayer isn't it this is what she said about Ayers how dashy and all that she must be an ayengar that's why she's taking on the Ayers that's not it what I'm trying to say is that there's this tambram image of being this sharp witty way with words but take down with miti churi is that you no the uh Ayer uh brood has a reputation for working in the shadows and being bureaucrats examine they used to say you know in South block you're either a madrasi or you're a chaprasi and in those days all the madrasis okay right so I think it's quite uh non-air to be like this I think their few to know Ayers were actually very outspoken they tend to work very quiet okay Abhijit you're so right because uh there was this one incident I was traveling with uh a bunch of us journals and there were these senior | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-5 | bunch of us journals and there were these senior uh government officers and the senior most of them was narrating some incident and he said I'm from palghat as a manner of conversation so I said oh there are two other secretaries out here from your village he got so mad at me how dare you say palgar is a village he's like oh my God I made some like you know you prani how dare you say call My Pal guard this place as a village but you know balgart the the really Posh people from palghat we come from Villages you know there's this notion what is palgart is what so Paul card is a district so uh milk uh milk Forest okay uh sorry for it okay okay and I come from a place called pudugramam which is in kolangor okay okay and pudugrama means New Village Pudu is new and grama is Village okay so I'm I am a villager I'm very proud to be a villager oh huh they | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-6 | proud to be a villager oh huh they can't be a more urban I know than you other than probably Mani shankara he's much more urban and urban than me I guess okay so now let's get to the topic I'll keep chatting with you otherwise we today we were supposed to talk about the right wing narrative now you know you your area of expertise is from defense uh you know to nuclear stuff and you talk about foreign policy but you also talk a lot in your podcast in your conversations on television on the right wing narrative now tell me is there a right a right-wing narrative in India and where do you think that you know see the reason I'm asking you this is is there a right-wing narrative in most liberal democracies there is a left-wing narrative and a right-wing narrative and they're you know they they quarrel among each other but there is a narrative in India since 2014 we have supposedly a right-wing government right but there is no | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-7 | supposedly a right-wing government right but there is no right-wing narrative I feel yes the right-wing government wins election that's a different matter but is there a cohesive right-wing narrative as you know do you see that um no there isn't and you know these things are relative so let me give you an example in India we have a saffron socialist government or a saffron communist government uh which because it isn't as loony about uh you know State ownership of private Industries or as um uh willing to turn the Blind Eye to minority disturbances is deemed right wing when you say minority it's religious religious minorities right uh in if you look at the textbook Occidental definition of a right wing the BJP would actually come quite far to the left but because it's all relative where does the median lie in India the center is so far left in India that relatively speaking the BJP is a right-wing party but do they believe in individual liberties no uh do they believe in uh uh | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-8 | liberties no uh do they believe in uh uh a state agency which is anathema to the right fundamentally from a western definition yes they do uh do they believe in uh you know the absolute uh uh authority of the state yes which is necessary in a pre-industrial society but not in a post-industrial society and yet they keep talking as if India has become post-industrial but when you're saying all this you the presumption is that BJP is the is the one who is doing the is one who's molding The Narrative of right wing is that it that BJP not RSS not BHP not anybody else correct because see there is uh if you read nalin Mehta's book uh what happened was you remember 2004 when vajpai G lost the election uh there's a very coherent case to be made that India shining didn't lose them the election it was the RSS that didn't come out and campaign for vajpai that lost them the election uh I think they've learned from that and what | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-9 | uh I think they've learned from that and what modi's done is before the RSS the RSS and BJP numbers were roughly equal today the BJP is 29 times the size of the RSS so even tomorrow if the RSS decides to pull the rug there's nothing say they withdraw support or they don't come out and campaign actively like they didn't in 2004. do you think it will impact on bjp's electoral not at all not anymore and what about the narrative the right narrative is it RSS driven the right narrative as I see it there is no classical right in this country there is no new chanakya in this country chanakya was actually quite right-wing okay yeah he was the father of the right you know this is the same thing loves chanakya everything you love chanakya but they don't follow so for example Buddhism if you look at all early iconography of Buddhism the Buddha was never meant to be represented anthropomorphically you showed either an elephant or a | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-10 | you showed either an elephant or a Lotus or something as this thing but now it's turned to worshiping the Buddha's image right right so they may love chanakya the issue is they tear the arthashastra to bits on everything be it foreign policy made defense policy and especially on economic policy I think chanakya's Atma is in serious turmoil somewhere look looking at what is being propagated in his name so there is no right wing out here you look at political Islam for example yeah that's what I was going to say that while you say this about the right the right which is the Hindu right there is also the Muslim right and the same thing right uh same thing right the same thing in the sense of um the if they go by if these guys don't follow chanakya but idolize chanakya the person here you have uh the Muslim right which talks about the Quran but may not be following everything that the the book says right so here what happens is uh you have what | kBZaiIjCVPo |
4df588bf31fd-11 | so here what happens is uh you have what you'd call political Islam which is to say the Muslim right which is identarian politics which is loved by the left globally the left loves political Islam they haven't met somebody from the Muslim Brotherhood or a political Islam party who they didn't consider a fellow traveler right now for example I would consider him a political right a Muslim political right but he will be welcome in any left-wing publication anywhere either in India or abroad right so what makes you left-wing then what is the left what is the right is that why you think that even in in Western liberal Western democracies there's not much support coming out for uh Iranian women who are pulling off the hijabs there's this very uh weird Silence from the so-called left liberals not just in India but in countries where the the Muslim population is low even there so even there I want you to contrast two things Iran hijab protests get much more press traction than the uh car driving or | kBZaiIjCVPo |