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b9595f31e208-13 | lady journalist on television who said I make and break cabinets it's another matter that she got 24 people killed uh at the chambers because of her Reckless and insensitive reportage on 26 11 which I was witnessed to so point I'm making is those days of entitlement are over now all that needs to be communicated and this is where this government is perhaps its weakest the individuals in this government are great communicators but the government as a whole is weak why should they even talk about right wing what is Modi done with the Padma Awards he has created a democracy of awards that you and I couldn't imagine earlier people would write to me people would call you up I would always tell people that if I even endorse it you there there's a sure side of nothing you won't get it but you know how the thing worked yes today it is actually a meritocracy yeah but no one talks about it yeah today you can be the poorest of the poor the Communists of the | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-14 | poorest of the poor the Communists of the common and yet if you've achieved something you will get it you can write six op-ed columns praising Modi but you will not get a Padma award this is what has the message this is the best message that could have gone out I mean I am supremely happy that this has happened but then of course I'm not the you are the brand consultant now you know let me get on to uh before I get on to the corporate sector let me just get on to the political parties you've talked about what what could go what BJP does wrong or what the the government does wrong at the center or even the right wing does wrong what about these single man banned parties right their images of like okay Mamta heads TMC it's be be all an end-all right uh the bsp the SP the kcrs party TRS there's a Stalin in the South there's you know everybody all these Regional parties so-called Regional they're actually single man bad even a | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-15 | so-called Regional they're actually single man bad even a Sharad pavar is a single manager absolutely right how but in spite of that they get elected they don't even need a branding that one person brand is enough isn't that a little bizarre no but you know you'll be surprised Mamta battery has a very strong brand within Bengal is seen as the great maratha but you're right these are not pan-national parties you know ironic as it may sound the only pan-national party is led by a guy who's better off sitting in a boat which he never has to row and no pun intended on that snake ladder board but that's the tragedy yeah the tragedy is that that is the only pan-national party right the others are parties which fight elections because they are funds the other person you have to watch out for because as my grandmother would use a word for him he's a misna is arvind that is such a Punjabi thing to say she was Punjabi as I am | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-16 | thing to say she was Punjabi as I am too he is the biggest misna that you have to watch out for for two reasons number one he's obviously got money and now he's got two states under his belt he understands the game he has played certain sessions of the media with lots of advertising money yeah yeah and you know that's what you what you've got to be worried about because he understands the game that is being played qual the media and you're rightly mentioned how irresponsible has the liberal media been in the most recent reporters there's been complete radio silence why because they applied with advertising money so the question that then needs to be asked Smitha is ask Irani famously said of the Statesman many years ago he says the press in India is as free as it chooses to be and I'm not saying this because I'm sitting here you run one of the most formidable agencies you know in terms of news agencies you know better than I do that the pulls | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-17 | you know better than I do that the pulls and pressures sometimes are highly exaggerated sometimes television channels want to tow a particular line because they're looking for benefits which have nothing to do with news Gathering someone may want land for a university someone may want land for this someone may want land for that yeah if it's not a purely news owned organization then yes I mean and many channels mind you are owned by rice exporters Builders politicians so they have their own compulsions that I agree but um and even newspapers I shouldn't say just news so that's where I think social media has come in let me tell you even uh like when we're talking about the media in the past there are many um many presumptions that I myself had which I used to think that's the way it's done till social media came in and I there was a lot of reality check and literally learning every day you know yeah uh that oh my God what I was doing was wrong what I was thinking was | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-18 | I was doing was wrong what I was thinking was wrong and this comes in when an ordinary person tells you that you know this is elitism that you know you are you don't even realize it that what you were seeing or what you were doing was wrong and then it just comes back to me I think social media is a great leveler yeah but I'll only tell people like you because you're in the in the field don't give too much Credence to social media okay if you look at the numbers it's almost about two percent of your population so it really doesn't matter Twitter was can be fought between people who have nothing else to do B social media has a way of creating pressure groups where none should exist the third is the anonymity the anonymity allows them to say Reckless things when the government created controls or wanted to create controls I was all for it and someone said oh you're in for censorship I said I'm sorry platforms cannot be used to incite and create hatred platforms cannot | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-19 | be used to incite and create hatred platforms cannot be used to Peddle fake news then there must be some mechanism of Retribution either the platform should be made responsible or people using the platform should be made responsible tomorrow someone makes an allegation against you or me or person X or person why there is what recourse do I have there is nothing I mean this whole fact Checker business I'm not even going to get into it because then you know it becomes impossible because then and who's giving them who are you to tell me that your facts are the perfect facts and they choose the facts which they want to be absolutely and that choosing is based on ideology it's not choosing based on what is news is choosing based on okay this suits me ideologically this suits me religion wise cast wise whatever and that's why I'm going to fact check or not fact check it that that bothers me no so which is why the point that you raised earlier is very interesting the idea of India existed | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-20 | earlier is very interesting the idea of India existed before we became free we're now all excited about India at 75 and we'll get excited at India at 100. the point is if you look back you pull back a bit what have you actually celebrated in India at 75 modi's done a remarkable job by at least branding it you know azadiq um but if you look at the communications being pathetic now you tell me tagore bankim Chandra Chatterjee whether it was Swami Vivekananda three orobindo the zillions of people across Amrita prism they were all contributors to the shaping of the thinking that made us who we are and I'm talking even go back further go back 3000 years ago my belief is that the time has come for us to celebrate indian-ness the tragedy is the left believes that indian-ness is nationalistic and nationalism is right-wing they forget that patriotism is the last Refuge of this government not nationalism yeah that's parsing the word because not many people | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-21 | yeah that's parsing the word because not many people get into the intellectual aspect of it because I don't read they don't read yeah okay you know I'm dealing with even in the corporate world I'm dealing with 99 uh people who are absolute idiots but you can't say that to them because some some of them you know you you need to respect so when you're doing branding uh you know your ideal ideology negative right you don't even think that about the ideology of of your client you don't think about the religiosity or non-religious or agnostic or whatever it doesn't matter to you right what happens when you go in to talk about branding of a political party if you get a client if you have to advise a client does it matter which was given by me I treat it as an assignment okay I don't treat it and you're absolutely right I'm completely politically neutral okay and I've always been because frankly I'm more interested in great food than a great political party because no matter | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-22 | great food than a great political party because no matter which political party comes they will tax the hell out of me yeah so I really don't care okay what I worry about are political parties which are Insidious to my mind and with all grave responsibility I will say ahmadmi party has become insidious insidious why when you raise alarmist bugles when you try and be anti-establishment for the sake of being anti-establishment when you out every institution that is that is germane to the functioning of a democracy then you're Insidious the danger I get it but what I'm trying to say is it's not as if he's inventing Reinventing the wheel he knows internationally what has happened but you see that's the problem today if you look at what's happening in America there was a time six months ago when I told people that if Trump stood in 2024 he will win but if you see some of the endorsements of the candidates he's had from the grand old party people are losing why ultimately people | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-23 | the grand old party people are losing why ultimately people want a level of happiness and comfort now it's the other day someone on television said so many high net worth individuals have left India since Modi came my response was I'm so delighted because the people who've left were non-contributory in any which way they were people who were either skimming off the surface they were people who were violating laws of this land and they have left for better climes to now say that the government must not take action now the other thing which which you alluded to people like Mamta Banerjee say all the agencies are attacking politicians if politicians are making money the agencies will attack you the CBI or the Ed didn't put 70 crores in someone's house it was there it was unaccounted for now should our agency stop working even if it is for political reasons and allow corruption to be condoned many years ago I met with this guy he's a he's a businessman industrialist and said that I want my sons | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-24 | businessman industrialist and said that I want my sons a son was in college and he says uh I want him to get into politics so I said like why you know contribute he said no because all businesses uh need one one person in politics to safeguard what you have and two for expansion businesses or they own it so this was quite a while ago which made me think that what what are we getting at you need it you need to get into public service to safeguard an existing business it sounded ghastly but you know look at the logic it sounds miserable but look at the logic how much money do people have to spend in order to fight an election it's Way Beyond the prescribed limit by the election commission sure today the election commissioner says instead of twenty thousand two thousand is the cash amount cash remittance all these political parties are minting money now if I have to spend 10 15 crores I'm going to recover that 15 crores how am I going to recover it not by | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-25 | crores how am I going to recover it not by being Mother Teresa I will recover it in some form or the other who will I recover it from people like you and me well certainly not the two of us because I won't even pay a dime but that's that's how the whole recovery process begins yeah so my belief is that until and unless you make electoral funding really severe look at England for example in any constituency you stand for in England you can't spend more than 30 000 pounds that's the limit and they are hawkish about it even if you spend one pound more you can actually be debarred we have to follow that and trust me that day is not far you know I advise that others I advise but if you see the tatas they have a transparent way of funding elections which is based on two principles track record and what achievements have you made from your last electoral winnings to the present and it's all mathematically uh attributable so there's no | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-26 | it's all mathematically uh attributable so there's no guns right at the at the grassroot level when an MLA election a panchayat election that's where all you don't have these kind of rules you know your corporate rules are different but all the money is actually coming in from the street you know where where the shopkeepers right let's see what modi's done and I've said this publicly it is by far the cleanest cabinet India's ever had ever yeah I believe there is in this cabinet or in this government the rule is that even the slightest bit obtained and you will have to leave so they there is this fear of danda all the time and I'm so glad now are people making money some are making money in the name of the party some bureaucrats must be making money or you know people in certain departments or whatever but I can tell you and I advise some of the biggest industrialists in the country each one has said which means we don't need to go to | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-27 | has said which means we don't need to go to Delhi ever again earlier that's euphemism for lighting Pockets lining Pockets or you know paying obesions right today the fact that Modi doesn't meet individual industrialists and would only meet you in groups or the fact that they've given a lot of credits to The fickies ciis as a Champs of the world they are interested in policy once the policy is laid down it doesn't matter who you are what dispensation you come from and this whole nonsense that Rahul Gandhi started now that we're talking about corporates about adani and Ambani two things number one Rahul Gandhi even if he tried hard he wouldn't be able to employ a single person with an honest day's salary number two why do you begrudge people who are doing well for the country you know adani hasn't again come out you know stolen from a bank or done decority neither is Ambani why do you constantly berate your own industrialist today it's | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-28 | you constantly berate your own industrialist today it's just these two tomorrow it'll spread and you will start having people at State levels so suppose the Smitha prakash doesn't pay money to a month of energy Mamta will start saying ah Smitha is bad there is no end to this see you know um we were talking about uh this whole adani Ambani business which uh Rahul Gandhi keeps saying and even um ahmadni party all their leaders of Amani party they keep saying that and then they kept saying that it's industrialists who run this government so there's this whole movement towards an anti-industrialist or just two people becoming richer whereas most of India is becoming poorer the Congress even celebrated the prime minister's birthday as beirusgari Divas if I'm not mistaken so on the other hand people you know say that you're crushing wealth you know those who are wealth creators job creators you're going after them so tell me is what is the right way so let me give | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-29 | is what is the right way so let me give you facts today Reliance Industries is the second largest employer of Indians and is the largest employer of Indians in the private sector in September 2015 on the fifth Radha krishnadi's birthday when Mukesh launched jio it dropped pricing in competitive terms by almost 60 percent so today India is the world's leading digitized economy I mean even Germany can't get its goddamn payment uh portals right who did that money now you tell me there was Airtel there was Vodafone there were other players today what has happened Airtel is doing brilliantly Vodafone idea is in trouble as they should be because of perhaps their service levels or whatever today you have jio you have Airtel has it had been wiped out no adani when adani actually made his initial money it was during the Congress days please understand he's in the infrastructure business for a port to materialize it takes about 14 to 15 years let's say a fast accident does it in | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-30 | years let's say a fast accident does it in nine years it's still before Modi came to power it's very easy for Raul Gandhi for anyone to take pot shots it's the same Mamta Banerjee who's Reckless irresponsible Member of Parliament made comments about adani who was the chief guest at the global business Summit where I was also present Gotham adani so if they don't like him why do they take his money if Rahul Gandhi doesn't like adani why does the show Gallard invite him to Rajasthan please also remember I can understand political compulsions but when political compulsions become personal they can go personal as well where did Rahul Gandhi and his family for years get money for their elections did they go to Fiji or New Zealand no they got it from these people who was who who did Ahmed Patel who supported Ahmed Patel Sikh all the time from diruma ambani's time he sought their uh you know supported patronage I think corporate India is | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-31 | you know supported patronage I think corporate India is doing a fabulous job a b today the Tata group under Chandra and I'm deeply involved I know they've done fabulously well now will you say that Modi is also supporting the Tata group when the Cyrus Mystery Case happened it went right up to the Supreme Court it went through all the uh the procedure and when the house of Tata one would you say that oh Modi got it done I mean this is ridiculous and let me tell you this sarkar comment delayed reforms by two years and I know because jaitly was Finance Minister and nobody wanted this I will give you a fact Gautama madani has never spoken about it but I can tell you it's 100 true he owns the airport in Jaipur he also owns the airport in Ahmedabad he won't put his name there because obviously politicians must have told him we'll get into trouble this is ridiculous here is a person the bids are transparent it's not as | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-32 | a person the bids are transparent it's not as if you know he's taken the airport under subterfuge he's in the infrastructure business look at Mukesh so tell me in this would you advise uh what he did was right it's it's political expediency you get no business body is done no what Rahul Gandhi has done is I'm talking about see an adani not putting the name you know not doing not at all because I'll tell you one thing and this is what I wanted to allude to earlier you can only succumb to Logic the day you succumb to Blackmail there'll be no stopping you they will blackmail you for everything they will hold you to Ransom intellectually they will hold you to Ransom monetarily they'll hold you to Ransom spiritually do you want that and which is why I say this discussion in public domains on religion is a travesty of who we really are we should not be talking about that I should not worry if Smitha eats beef or | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-33 | should not worry if Smitha eats beef or eats poke or eats chicken or eats Gobi I should be worried if Smitha doesn't have enough food on her plate to eat that should be my worry true very well put another question which I've you know it it really touched my heart is when you what you said about you know he uh he made many people wealthy which which uh not many people know those who are not you know dealing with the stock market or don't know about him we saw those pictures of him with the Prime Minister and knew that he was not keeping good health you interacted with him in the last uh several times in fact the day he met the Prime Minister that evening he had come home to gurgaon for dinner and I warned him not the first time I told him I said you got to take it easy he was a severe diabetic in fact he had a diabetic foot hence the wheelchair but you know Rakesh was a different and | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-34 | wheelchair but you know Rakesh was a different and is a different human being I can never even talk about him in the past tense his life was so wedded to the idea of a successful entrepreneurial driven India I never saw that in too many people a b what I loved about him is you say this about me I used to say this about him Reckless enjoyed his life and was Epicurean to a point that you know who knows tomorrow so eat drink as much as you can today what I always worried about and and I told him so in so many words was his complete disregard for health off of Fitness you know I'm not exactly adamus you know I'm overweight but at least I'm fit in the sense I'm healthy I work out I swim blah blah he had no interest he was a great Giver he was a super philanthropist he gave money to Ashoka he uh set up foundations he set up schools but here's the tragedy of what uses all of | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-35 | but here's the tragedy of what uses all of that when you disregard your own health and today he leaves behind a wife he leaves behind a daughter who's 17 or so two boys who are 13 I mean this was a man who was a genuine Giver you know of him I've always said he was one of the finest optimists that you would want to put in a room anywhere to promote brand India okay he was not only Indian in his Outlook in his eating habits in everything he was a committed Indian in terms of India's potential he genuinely believed that India will India can and India must outlive the potential that its most formidable supporters have given it even you are like that very unabashed about your uh about your belief in brand India I love my country I I love it to the point that sometimes the stupidities that it is infected with make me very angry like I I'm saying this to you I've written about it it'll be published in a while I've said | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-36 | it it'll be published in a while I've said that brand India at 75 could have been a celebration of such a different kind but you know we turned it into an we turned it like event managers and this is my problem with governments see remember one thing Modi is a very astute marketing man very astute he understands both Optics and the Outreach but when you give it to babus they don't they treat it as an event now you tell me you have two nehru centers across the world one in Moscow one in London what are they they're known for samosas and pathetic wine I could have done an Outreach which would have been so remarkable in celebrating India why I had a first celebrated democracy the day I would have celebrated democracy in Washington and in New York in London and in Moscow I would really nearly be celebrating Modi so all his people in the government who would like to suck up to him should have realized that a celebration of democracy is | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-37 | have realized that a celebration of democracy is actually a celebration of electoral politics over dictatorial politics plus what do we do in our soft pass method we talk about Bollywood that's it we have sundry literary festivals but where are the Hari Prasad chaurasias who are still alive we do a film on uh India at 75 which is a poor copy of military this is a film which should not have had Kapil Dev although I love him it should not have had all these celebrities it had the same Padma what is who you and I don't know but who we would have come to know through whom you would have admired the diversity of India both in potential as well as linguistically and culturally we let that opportunity pass so my belief is that this country has so much potential we've got great people we've got great human beings you know people have asked me I mean I've advised governments abroad people said why don't you become a British citizen but I would | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-38 | don't you become a British citizen but I would never give up this country why because a I was born here B I don't belong to India or India belongs to me we have a common DNA and I've often said that India is like the Bumblebee aerodynamically the Bumblebee can't fly but you know the bumblebee doesn't know that so it flies happily okay so for all the cynics who say Indiana foreign inflation what we did during the pandemic I was the biggest critic in wave two when he ran short of resp uh uh oxygen and we ran short of ventilators triumphed you don't think as many in the opposition say that the idea of India is being altered and it's under who are they the idea of India belongs to every Indian who the hell is jairam Ramesh or Sita Ram yeturi or for that matter anyone in the BJP to say this is one idea of India India's ideas are pluralistic India is not monolithic in either its Outlook or in | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-39 | is not monolithic in either its Outlook or in its construct India is a celebration of diversity India is a celebration of contrarian thought I mean the fact that we are today celebrating netaji we're also celebrating Mahatma Gandhi we are also celebrating Sardar Patel no it's another matter that sometimes you make dead people fight that's another matter but the point is we are celebrating our diversity and why shouldn't we but I am saying celebrate the scholarship of India thank you our lives will go our cars will shrink or cars will vanish the idea of India will only remain if we anchor the idea of India in the ideas that made India for that you will need scholarship you won't need bravado you know there are n number of people who say that suhail lives his life large like a like a Malya of the corporate world oh you love your parties you love your you love your friends you love that that high profile lifestyle that you led there was | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-40 | that that high profile lifestyle that you led there was there was nowhere you got affected by this vocism at any point of time to be correct no so two things number one I live within my means obviously I don't even have I don't even have point zero zero one Pisa of debt when I say debt even my credit card Owings number two what is the harm I'm not cheating I've not stolen anyone's money I've not done a single deal I've not fixed anything I'm abusing most people on television but people also realize that in friendship it is always unconditional now in my house people come from different dispensations you would have an artist you would have a musician you would have a philosopher you'd have a poet so it's not that we are making any distinction and I wrote in my book in my first book I said never make clients out of friends only make friends out of clients because the day you start doing the former you're in trouble when it comes to uh | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-41 | former you're in trouble when it comes to uh Bollywood when you talk about the uh the Bombay film right this whole thing about nepotism casting couch it's become again this cancel culture is coming in we're saying oh everybody is hiring only people who they know uh you know your uncle yours so this whole cancel culture comes in even there this nepotism bit as far as nepotism is concerned who would you much rather work with you'd work with people you know especially in the film industry to now say nepotism okay there's always been nepotism yeah if there was no nepotism there'd be no Bobby with Rishi Kapoor always is a I had Pawan Varma in the on the show uh and we were talking about this whole thing that we it's always been there so why not right uh it's always been there the yestopras and the you know the all the other producers it's been there in South India too correct in the South Indian film industry it's been there | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-42 | correct in the South Indian film industry it's been there in bureaucracy too an ICS officer's law is there in law journalism journalism right in see in the private sector it's there agreed that you'd rather hire somebody you'd rather but then ultimately it's the balance sheet if if the son of an industrialist doesn't bring about the results he is not CEO anymore somebody else is jointed because you know your balance sheet has killed your responsible to your shareholders the same in Bollywood is that agar uh Mr chopra's son doesn't bring about three hits after a while he can't last a Mr bachchan's son if he doesn't bring if he brings flop after flop he's not going to get producers only it gives you a foot in the door look at Tushar Kapoor for instance yeah I have no comment on his acting abilities but he comes from great stock yeah jeetenderson ekta's brother yeah where is he yeah where is he yeah so let me tell you it might give you | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-43 | yeah so let me tell you it might give you a foot in the door but it doesn't guarantee you a station in life but in bureaucracy in politics it does in bureaucracy uh see in English nurturing constituency let's imagine I have a constituency called X and I worked in that constituency for let's say 30 40 years and my daughter says I'd also work there she's perhaps seen me work she's walked the streets with me it'll be much easier for her than for an outsider a b you're absolutely right that's human behavior we love Legacy building but not anymore those those walls that's what I feel that that change is happening see when I started in journalism uh when I was doing Beach journalism at one point of time so who's doing the foreign beat or even now who does the defense beat children of Defense service officers who does the foreign beat Sons and Daughters of ifs ifs officers right they are doing that so what happens our uncle will | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-44 | are doing that so what happens our uncle will give me an interview Auntie will give me an interview those uncles and aunties also they have gone to those exact same schools correct they have taken the civil services Network they have the same they go to Gymkhana Club India International Center they have that so regardless if you're a mediocre you will get the plum postings of London New York Washington DC and maybe one neighborhood posting which is considered a punishment posting in foreign office you'll get that if you're in the IIs and you could belong to the Carter where actually you should be in the Northeast no you will keep them but it's changing so here I am noticing that yeah see under this prime minister in our country it's changing but look at what's happening abroad here I mean you still think that in in Western democracies that look at England they decried Boris Johnson and they said not the old etonian Network and they actually said of the last 15 Prime Ministers since | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-45 | they actually said of the last 15 Prime Ministers since Winston Churchill seven are from the same school so let me tell you the old boys network is still alive and kicking I mean if it's not crumbling anymore not at and it won't okay because ultimately if you look at it from a human perspective or a consumer perspective we are ultimately animals of social captivity we are expected so we are captive to our societal uh radius you will feel very uncomfortable if I suddenly why is there this bad habit in Delhi especially you ask someone to dinner they'll always ask you so that's very Delhi right but it's now uh Bombay too it's Bombay too it's it's it's now a national disease and the reason why they ask is because of their lack of either scholarship or their lack of the or their ability to talk they want to be in what I call comfortable zones or are they just nervous being seen with X or why because that they don't care because today they might | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-46 | why because that they don't care because today they might be with someone that person might go to jail tomorrow they won't know okay so that they're not worried about they are worried about what we call a threatening environment so Howard Schultz who founded uh Starbucks when asked why did you create Starbucks he says this the office and then there's the home and then there's the third place so Starbucks was the third place where you didn't feel threatened you didn't have to live up to any expectations and nothing was asked of you so the concept of the third place still doesn't exist in our lives on a day-to-day basis so we are animal social captivity we are captive to social norms social behavior people even make pretense I mean I don't want to name names but I said that there are Bollywood actors who even charge uh to be present at a funeral now why would someone pay them because that person is seeking social acceptance okay today if you see the sense of entitlement is no longer | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-47 | you see the sense of entitlement is no longer stature driven it is actually money driven if you see the people who frequent five-star hotels today from what they used to do 10 years ago because people are no longer ashamed of their linguistic skills or their inability to speak English amazing used to say this too where he used to say that when you say I mean he said so today people are not bothered today a guy who has the money knows he has the access earlier the guy who had the money may not have had the access and he'd feel a bit different today no one feels different so you feel that you know there was a time when Mr Modi came in I also remember the time when Mr ghatkari was you know became president of BJP and you know he used to drink uh he would sip it and of course everybody in Delhi used to deter and laugh about it because you know it was like oh my God what is this he's doing because Delhi | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-48 | my God what is this he's doing because Delhi is a very uh you know yeah quick to judge on these things right where it is so common in Bombay to do this even an industrialist would do it in Bombay nobody would even blink but in Delhi you know these habits you know like you you as Pawan was saying the other day and he said like you know there's there's one guy who said oh he's HMT Hindi medium type or it's the worst was Urt Urdu medium type you know my God yeah so thank God I don't know whoever meets nowadays so this is no he's talking about his era in uh when he was in the Foreign Service so at that time which is true but you remember when you were in college also you know there was this whole thing about salwar kami's you won't you won't make it to the right crowd no no but I remember yeah College Delhi since Stephen I was walking to speak at the Mukherjee Memorial and I was | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-49 | speak at the Mukherjee Memorial and I was wearing a khadi kurta with blue jeans and covert is butter covered his sandals and one guy says when I won the debate and I came down and I said see so the arrogance was stupendous yeah but in college to some extent men could wear jeans and kurta because there was still that leftist element to and the jhola there was still that thing that even if you didn't believe in leftist ideology you still wore it to get accepted leftist and this I noticed that it was only in some campuses where it wasn't visible which was maybe in Stevens and maybe in an IIT maybe in the technical colleges but across India that was the attire no longer no now see so a lot has changed in India number one let me analyze it just from a from a sociological point of view the Indian of today versus the Indian 10 years ago is 700 more confident number two we have decried a lot of the | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-50 | number two we have decried a lot of the social mores see the matrimonial column adds in those days you have to be they would ask for is ifas Doctor lawyer today they don't care number three seven figure eight figure salary is what matters no and the sense of entitlement is gone there was no EMI in those days right you lived within your mind that's my worry also yeah because I'm seeing especially in Delhi the amount of social pressure on materialism is causing great damage plus parenting is being outsourced you know in our times if you took a tutor you are talking about materialism I think I mean everybody knows right and you yourself love your hedonistic life but I've earned it you've earned it so I wondered I'm happy driving I go in Autos if I can get an auto quickly in Bombay I would say that landsat because we've been there done that you know I drive a Kia and I'm very proud to people say oh you used to have a Maybach | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-51 | to people say oh you used to have a Maybach what happened I said you know I find a care more comfortable which I do you probably not get kidnapped no forget kidnapped you have to be comfortable in your own skin okay ultimately you will not take anything with you where are you most comfortable Calcutta gurgaon New York I'm comfortable everywhere because I have great friends okay and I have great other interests so in New York I have my place to see in the evening I have the Opera to go to in London the same you have great friends you're not hanging around only with the NRI crowd you know waiting to have just your usual Indian food but the point is in order to be that you've actually got to be interested in things you know I still work towards finishing one book a day but people say how could you finish your book a day you have to make the time writing so you know half the Jokers will not know so they will say oh yeah he became this | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-52 | know so they will say oh yeah he became this so he became that here we've been there done that for ages when buddy television began pardoned the the French when television began I was doing youth time debates then yes so it's no it's now people say oh you're on television I said yes now we are at the end of our lives on television plus we knew when to get off yeah in college 13 episodes and you were done and you had to work towards the next 13 episodes and in college the day I finished my graduation I never came back and uh spoke in any inter College event there were people who were taking part even during the maze because of the money or the fame or whatever I said no I've done my graduation I'm out it's very important to know when to stop okay because this is a Mindless Rush towards avarice of a kind that you and I can't Define the other thing is and and I bemoan the fact that this is happening | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-53 | I bemoan the fact that this is happening the young of today are unable to communicate because of a lack of Scholarship today communication oh what's up bro how do you respond to that hmm how do you respond to someone not reading that's become a major thing but not clearance and not listening yeah hearing because that's a non-cognitive function yeah but they're not listening this and look at what's happening you and I both take part in these debates right satire is gone humor is gone no it's not there have you noticed not just satire and humor gone everybody is so scared that one sentence this way or that way can lead you can lead into an fir that there are many experts now who people viewers probably don't realize but they're reading it out of a computer they're not speaking they're like you speak and then I speak red I react to an anchor who you know or nurb or navika or whatever asks a question and I react to that question they don't they | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-54 | question and I react to that question they don't they have a script prepared and they're reading it out because they are scared one they're they're not confident like you were saying because they come they're not sure right so they come prepared with this is what I have to say and I'm going to say this regardless of what the question is and I'm noticing this bizarre they're not all that erudite when you meet them in real life but on television suddenly they're spouting Shayari and they're coating and everything this is straight out of a computer which is kept in front of them and we don't realize it or viewers don't realize it but it's only when I meet them I realize my goodness this person really cannot speak he's speaking out of that either for fear of being misquoted or picked up by these so-called fact Checkers who are agenda artists who want to cancel you out of these debates or else you know I've never touched only I have not been canceled out because | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-55 | touched only I have not been canceled out because frankly I don't care you don't care yeah a b everyone knows I have zero malice I have no agenda whatever's happened to me in my life I've always reacted in the same way that you let it pass because you know a fight never helps anyone viciousness and vitriol never help you I have often used humor or satire you know in television debates because I think everyone is so angry and the I wrote an article many weeks ago I called us us the Republic of Rage I said everyone's angry the guy behind is angry because you're not moving but how can you move with the traffic light is red I frankly get angry just waiting for 40 minutes waiting for my turn to speak that makes me angry nothing else now can you imagine so the other thing is that you know as in in our profession uh because the you know news moves so quickly I I've noticed journalists as they become older they keep | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-56 | I've noticed journalists as they become older they keep bemoaning about the good old yesteryears that was true journalism today it's not that's rubbish do you feel like that in in your profession too no oh so two things when we did advertising my contemporary was piyush Pandey so push and I used to work on clients together it is a different ball game Smitha we walked in like lions what was my salary 6000 rupees a month but we walked in as we owned the place today an agency walks into a client's office as if they are serviled as if they are supplicants so I've always told people in advertising today and I left advertising 2006. I said you know when we walked in the clients would respect us because we had a point of view and if the client didn't like it we'd tell him lump it and we'd walk out today everyone is scared business will lose you only have to compromise on one thing not compromising the day you compromise you will | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-57 | thing not compromising the day you compromise you will be trampled and you know there are people who will walk all over you so what I'm seeing today is different I'm seeing it different in advertising I'm seeing marketing change more and more people are not spending as much time in understanding consumer Behavior as much as they should people have stopped reading where is journalism today I think the journalist of today is under far greater pressure than he or she has ever been as you said of the immediacy plus you're being bombarded yeah when do you when was the last time you actually read a printed newspaper cover to cover because you didn't need to you're getting real-time news on Twitter and I'm you know uh if you're getting an overload at my age I'm finding this that I have the newspaper in front of me and I'm seeing the article but instead of reading it there I moved to my laptop and I type that because my eye is reading a typed word faster than a newspaper there you are | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-58 | typed word faster than a newspaper there you are there you are so I was the only I'm the only person who whether in London or in New York you subscribers have instructions to give me printed newspapers but that's like we are dinosaurs who are still certainly we are the people who genuinely believe in the printed word yeah and and you're absolutely right I think journalists today have a far greater challenge yeah they have a challenge of being judged immediately they have a challenge of these so-called fact checkers one sentence can can make you you know like land up with 10 Firs you're sitting in Delhi you're sitting in a Noida studio and The Firs are in Calcutta the fir is in Jaipur but you know that now now the clubbing has happened thanks to the courts but that's after I know of several uh anchors what do you do it's a live debate right it happens this way and that way and for you just let a sentence go by because how much can | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-59 | just let a sentence go by because how much can you concentrate no no and it's unfair this whole fir business you see we cannot use the justice system for pernicious purposes Justice you must read this brilliant book I know he's part of the right wing cancel culture but read a book called the idea of Justice by matthiasen in that only one statement is very relevant to what you and I are saying he says ultimately Justice is about fairness and there's a difference between Niti and nyay Niti is when Smitha goes to court nyai is what she receives at the hands of the court so there's no point saying how Smith has been to the Supreme Court what is the Supreme Court given her in terms of fairness and ultimately Justice is about fairness so when you and I discuss all this this whole fir business we have to understand that are these Firs actually solving either a legal issue are they addressing an illegality that I may have committed or is it pure harassment it | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-60 | may have committed or is it pure harassment it is pressure tactic so if it's harassment or pressure tactic it's sad I mean I was a sued for 800 crores uh by a particular company because I said something on Twitter it's another matter that it got sorted or you know went away so I'm saying we cannot allow ourselves to be prisoners of a pernicious justice system and that should not be the reason for you to be gagged yeah but again uh you could probably do an out of court settlement or you'd have a lawyer who can help you with you know with discussing with the client or you can you can even go to court and you can battle it out but what happens to an employee you own your company but what happens to an employee is that the boss turns around tread the line which is the cautious line you know so this is what is going to happen with journalism unfortunately you now will have like you know it happened about 30 years ago | SkzNRtty1uA |
b9595f31e208-61 | like you know it happened about 30 years ago where you had the the marketing team sitting in editorial deciding on the pages correct the same way now you have the legal team sitting out there to see what can go and what that's sad yeah that's sad yeah so you know these are the the pitfalls of where journalism is heading towards anyway interesting talking to you thank you so much for giving us your time thank you thank you thank you for watching or listening into Ani podcast with Smitha prakash that was an interview with suhail said if you liked what you saw then please like And subscribe in whichever platform you saw this or heard this namaste [Music] thank you [Music] | SkzNRtty1uA |
96e856933e77-0 | my daughter was going to Canada to study an advisory would like this would make me wonder I would probably burn up the phone lines with her every day Pakistan has been on a mission to revive the kalistan movement uh not merely in Pakistan but in UK and in Canada outrage is the dominant dominant emotion across the world the state government in Punjab or certainly central government there should definitely be an Outreach at the at the local levels to educate people advise them sensitize them about realities in Canada what they see in pictures what they see in movies uh Etc is just not it I mean Namaste Jai Hind welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash if your son or daughter is applying for College admission to Canada or if you were a student in Canada then the advisory by the Indian government would have you worried this is the advisory there's been a sharp increase in incidents of hate crime sectarian violence and anti-india activities in Canada the ministry of | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-1 | and anti-india activities in Canada the ministry of external Affairs and a high commission Consulate General in Canada have taken up these issues with the Canadian authorities and requested them to investigate the said crimes and take appropriate action the perpetrators of these crimes have not been brought to justice so far in Canada in view of the increasing incidences of crime as described above Indian Nationals and students from India in Canada and those proceeding to Canada for travel or education are advised to exercise due caution and remain Vigilant Indian Nationals and students from India in Canada may also register with a high Commission of India in Ottawa or consulate generals of India in Toronto and Vancouver through their respective web websites or the madad portal madad.gov dot in registration would enable the high commission and consulate generals to better connect with Indian citizens in Canada in the event of any requirement or emergency this was the advisory put out by the government of India now this isn't the first time that India has issued such an | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-2 | the first time that India has issued such an advisory Canada on the other hand has issued a sharp counter advisory warning its citizens when they travel to parts of India that may be unsafe and not fall for scams in India now this is supposedly a an advisory which had been put out earlier too but the sharp Focus has been the lackadaisical attitude of Canadian law enforcement authorities about attacks on Indians in Canada or people of Indian origin in Canada and that has made India nervous now a 29 year old Indian student was killed in a shooting incident in September this year in Ontario Canadian MP Chandra Arya tweeted about the growing number of attacks on Hindu places of worship and temples in Canada his tweet says vandalism of Toronto baps SRI Swami Narayan mandir by Canadian kalistani extremists should be condemned by all this is not just an isolated event Canadian Hindu temples have been targeted in the past by these kinds of hate crime Hindu Canadians | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-3 | by these kinds of hate crime Hindu Canadians are legitimately concerned this was his tweet and then there is the issue of gangster crime organized crime which came into sharp focus with the killing of sidhu moose Wala one of the accused Goldy Brar is in Canada gangs and criminal organizations within the Punjabi Canadian Community have expanded their activities into Indian soil another long-standing problem is the kalistani groups in Canada an issue that dates back to the 1980s and is a festering problem the Indian middle class for decades have sent children to the U.S Canada and UK for higher education and better prospects but assimilation has been a problem especially for children who come from rural backgrounds in India and find it difficult to adjust to a different culture some of them work double shifts and are also studying to get a degree in a college to understand where the relationship stands that is India Canada relationship where does it stand now and should this issue be escalated to the Prime Minister level we spoke with | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-4 | escalated to the Prime Minister level we spoke with indrani bakchi who is the CEO of ananta Center a think tank based in Delhi indrani was the Diplomatic editor for the times of India for several years and covered the ministry of external Affairs and has interpreted Global Trends with an Indian perspective here's my conversation with indrani bakchi thank you very much for speaking with us indrani my first question would be that you know this kind of an advisory is not something new uh it's happened before but do you think that it's it's kind of uh it's a stronger advisory as compared to the earlier ones that used to come and will it put India Canada really will put more stress on India Canada relations and how seriously should one take this uh if you're a parent if you're a student who's going to study in Canada or if you're already studying in Canada when this kind of an advisory comes out it just sounds it sounds very ominous uh thank you Smita and thank | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-5 | sounds very ominous uh thank you Smita and thank you for inviting me such a pleasure um hey this is actually this is unusual the mea advisory that came out I think on the 23rd uh certainly unusual uh because uh we've had incidents before in Canada but um I think mea has or the government of India has sort of taken it on the chin ignored it uh sort of uh sort of in a disdainful manner so to speak but they haven't actually retorted with an um with an advisory an advisory actually is something that the state advises its citizens and we we believe that the full force of State knowledge understanding is behind that advisory um if you remember every time the U.S would issue an advisory to its own citizens in India it it used to be taken as a slight in in India and if you remember we used to do stories on this stuff um so this is this is clearly the state of the government of India expressing its disapproval um | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-6 | of the government of India expressing its disapproval um in fact this morning I saw the Canadians have responded with another with an advisory of their own uh basically saying that uh you should not asking their citizens to not travel to Gujarat Rajasthan Punjab because the landmines because there were landmines over the last land mine in Rajasthan or in Gujarat I would like to know well there have been on the on the on the other side on the no band lands yeah but that was a long long time ago and uh but it also talks about terrorism across the country throughout the country the threat of terrorism throughout the country and um so clearly they are also they are not turning the other cheek I think in Rani sometimes I feel that it's a good advisory because if there are any of those uh kalistanis who are based in Canada who are planning to move from Pakistan to uh India via Rajasthan side of whether the Gujarat side of punjabs I will think again | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-7 | Gujarat side of punjabs I will think again because there might be landmines you know I wish I wish I think they're made of stunner stuffs but uh but yeah so the but so yes it is certainly it is uh in a sense taking um the dis Indian disapproval up several notches um Canada's response in-kind and in in about landmines Etc uh say it tells me one thing that um I don't think Canada understands the depth of the problem that India wants Canada to resolve or to help to resolve uh I think they are looking at it as oh you know just another uh country kind of thing um so I'd say that this requires some degree of political intervention at some point because we you could get onto this spiral of I'm issuing advisory and you're issuing a counter advisory and when the relationship the larger relationship actually doesn't warrant it because there is a problem certainly and that is a big problem um if this was Pakistan I would have put this problem front and | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-8 | was Pakistan I would have put this problem front and center but since it is Canada and half a world away we have to find a way to resolve this this and I think and I think uh it is imperative on Canada to actually try and understand the Indian thinking a little better you think the Indian thinking has changed uh now you know because uh there is a whole lot of talk that the Indian foreign policy has become more muscular or Indian policy makers even if you see uh Dr Jai Shankar's visit uh you know if you see the U.N uh statements if you see his statements in America when uh when he's called out America's Bluff regarding f-16s uh that you know what are you trying to say that you're not trying to I mean you're not fooling anyone when you say that f-16s are used for counter-terror not that it had any impact because secretary blinken was like blase about it right so uh but when India puts out this kind of an advisory I'm going to come | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-9 | this kind of an advisory I'm going to come back to it that it seems like uh the Canadian authorities were tone deaf to understand that this is not this is not something that is going to be taken lightly anymore or it's not going to be ignored anymore or or just you know kept at the bare a perfunctory statement you know there is a uh there is a degree of tone deafness certainty in Canada um do you remember when uh um Justin Trudeau visited in April in 2018 uh along with that just palatwal who they had to then disinvite and they it it was an enormous embarrassment he didn't come as an official or something yes but he came with him he came with him and he was invited to two official events before he was disinvited yeah um and I and that tells you a little bit about the tone deafness with them in in Canada uh regarding the Indian muscular uh sort of response I would say the in Indian response in the last few years | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-10 | say the in Indian response in the last few years has become more shall we say open earlier earlier we may have been we may have thought twice that you know we don't want to anger the Canadians we've got so many other interests with them um I think now we are putting our security concerns right up there on the table and making no bones about it you've seen this kind of a response I mean everywhere from Pakistan to others um we the the this government at least believes that security interests security concerns um are Paramount and we will raise them we will put them up at the table as much as possible I mean look at jaishankar even use the statement it used as UNSC intervention where he called out Russia certainty but he also called out China because China has been blocking sanctions on uh terrorists who Target India but operate out of Pakistan but particularly people like Sajid Mir so you are you are seeing uh a little more uh openness and a little more uh uh sort of out | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-11 | openness and a little more uh uh sort of out there put it out there put it out there yeah kind of so you know you I've also covered the kind of things were done behind closed doors and then when there was an off the Record briefing for journalists we were told that candid conversation happened or India put forth uh in a strong manner or in a forthright manner but what happened in those conversations the exact words were never put out there but now we are probably doing it at both levels yeah we're putting it out there in the closed door meetings but being open about it and say and not shying away from saying that you know this this kind of a dichotomy of you know of saying everything is hunky-dory but actually not being there so do you think that yeah yeah well I think what's happening more and more about issues like this is they are not taking that Refuge behind uh of the record conversations in fact they're just putting everything out on the record | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-12 | fact they're just putting everything out on the record and then waiting for it to fall where it falls and how is this falling it's not I mean it's had no impact right actually do you think that the Canadian response is just an Anodyne uh response which they do every year or advisory every year that oh okay like I see the Canadian response today is clearly a response to our response I see right but I mean I've spoken to many Canadian officials about uh where we are and so they put this line to us to me at least that you know we really want to uh get rid of these elements as well we want to get rid of these elements we would like a little more in information evidence from India so it struck me then that they were sounding exactly like the Pakistani yeah because you don't see a game we used to play we used to play the you have my dossier I have my your daughter your daughter cells thinner than mine mine is fatter than yours so add more files | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-13 | mine is fatter than yours so add more files yeah and everybody and the pakistanis used to say even then give us more evidence give us more evidence that operates out of my country give us more evidence that Muhammad operates out of this country so we went through this entire cycle with Pakistan for years and as you remember correctly but and it seems to me that you know it is a strange in a strange way we are having a sort of a re replay of that thing only in Pakistan uh they would ask for proof whether uh you know dawood is there or whether any of the uh terror camps were there so you know radar imagery okay this that all these things where are the pictures of hafez and those kind of things but here the khalistanis are there parading it all correct and Goldie bra who was involved in the sidhu Moose Wala thing he's sitting there in Canada so we don't even India doesn't even need to give proof it's there and so that's | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-14 | need to give proof it's there and so that's exactly the point you see the in fact I think some Canadian officials actually went to the Nia uh to say you know we would um give us more information Etc and uh but they don't realize our history and I don't think they know the depth of that history so uh Indian officials obviously blew them away and said what do you mean they said exactly what you said which is Goldie look at Goldy brush sit there there you know the referendum the the the real trigger for the Indian thing was probably the referendum uh the khalistan referendum that happened um and uh even though this I think it was the 16th or the 17th of September that the Canadian government actually told the Indian government that uh you know we are not we don't support this as they had done even in 2020 but the point is that it is actually happening under your noses and there was no attempt to to shut it down uh there are many ways people | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-15 | to shut it down uh there are many ways people shut down uh things that are of interest to friendly countries and the biggest one that I would say is uh the the the the head of Huawei uh who was imprisoned in in Canada with no case in Canada but just because the Americans wanted her so she was in prison in a Canadian prison uh for two and a half years um and so it's that's not a that's not a reason right you can I'm but there is there is definitely I mean they hide under this thing about you know we are a democracy uh we allow all kinds of things to happen but clearly there are red flags that are being raised and these red flags come from a couple of places one uh is from a country like India it's not that India and Canada are unfriendly to each other uh we have fairly deep relationships um so you would think that in the interest of maintaining that they have gone they've sort of bent over backwards when Canada was wooing | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-16 | sort of bent over backwards when Canada was wooing the Chinese uh to into sort of be sensitive in quotes to all of China's sensitivities it only I mean only when things sort of fell apart because of America that they had to imprison this uh Wang from Huawei which then resulted in two Chinese two Canadian citizens uh being imprisoned for exactly the same length of time in China I mean China really took the tough line which is you have my you have my person in custody I am putting your two of your citizens in custody you take one of mine I take two of yours is that maybe that's the reason why they're not doing it no I'd see you know we are not China yeah we would never be able to to do that and we and we shouldn't correct there is a there are certain uh I mean we have certain Behavior modes as well um which is why the huge investment by Canada into India correct because it's a functioning democracy correct and you know they | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-17 | it's a functioning democracy correct and you know they know that their their Investments are safe their people are safe when they are in India uh you know another uh thing which um the this statement which says that a farcical exercise was held by extremists and radical elements supporting the so-called kalistan referendum in Canada and elsewhere this is what the external Affairs Ministry spokesperson said I mean clearly India is not going to ignore as I said uh you know the earlier way that oh okay so the kalisanis are doing this in in Canada so it's not impacting us but it is impacting India now because there's a whole you know there are events which are happening in India which are clearly driven by Palestine is whether it is coming via Pakistan or whether it is like a deliberate attempt in India you're seeing kalistani graffiti in India I mean since the 80s you and I have you know remember the 80s yes we we have gone through that when we were younger we've seen that | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-18 | through that when we were younger we've seen that yes don't want that again happening yes but you know and you and therefore the role of Pakistan becomes is actually not highlighted enough I think uh if I think uh there was a Pakistan Embassy official who actually visited the two one uh the two gurdwaras that uh in in Vancouver I think just around the time of the referendum okay and if you remember uh the sensitivities when we opened the qatarpur corridor uh about uh khalisani elements using the qatarpur corridor then it was a serious uh security uh sort of con red flag that had been put up Pakistan has been using in fact for the definitely for the last few years Pakistan has been on a mission to revive the kalistan movement uh not merely in Pakistan but in UK and in Canada with where a large number of um sort of uh diaspora Punjabi Sikh diaspora live um in Canada it's it it makes it difficult also for two other other sort of groups of | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-19 | difficult also for two other other sort of groups of people one is the groups of Sikhs who are not Allied to the khalistan movement but because they get tired they keep quiet because they also are probably under threat as well so they can't say anything the other is it it creates tensions between the Hindus and the Sikhs living in Canada um and that cannot be good for uh for Canada so you know this is something that we and and there is as you said there is a long string of events that we've been seeing in the in the most recent uh months and the last couple of years uh there was this attack on a Gurdwara in Punjab which is which was traced back I think the seeks for justice Group which is banned in India but operates openly in Canada um they um actually took responsibility for it um a different uh a different network and a different ecosystem uh was was witnessed when we saw the sidhu moose Wala murder so you know there are these | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-20 | moose Wala murder so you know there are these layers and if you were Canada you would you would want to think twice about them the question is why does Canada not uh red flag these problems that might affect its relationship with India so so what are Justin Trudeau's political compulsions like does he have like we have here a vote Bank politics is that his uh political compulsion that he cannot take because he's got people in his cabinet who will not uh allow any kind of you know some kind of an action to be taken against the kalistanis certainly that is part of it um I mean these there is uh he has the he has his own vote Bank politics I mean to believe that vote Bank politics are in some in countries like you know poor countries with large population and diverse societies like ours that's true everybody has wood Bank politics I mean the Democrats have have it the Tories have it the the labor party and the Liberals in Canada have it so um and the | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-21 | Liberals in Canada have it so um and the Sikhs are definitely a part of that some of those some of those Gurdwara some of the day now these are all wealthy people yeah remember the days are not uh sort of uh down in the down in the mouth kind of guys yeah but there are wealthy people in America also uh wealthy Sikhs in America and the gurdwaras have bhagat Singh uh and the same at the same time they have bindrawali in the same Gurdwara you you know both the pictures are there and there is even in some of the parades that are held there are kalistanis in that also but somehow they don't have that kind of political backing like they have in Canada well that is true because America is like India completely focused also on its own security concerns and you know it's not just 911 that but Post 9 11 and these 21 22 years the fault lines in the security in American society that could you know create security tensions for America I | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-22 | that could you know create security tensions for America I think the the American system is sort of fully infiltrated through all of these the security Canada I think Canada is so it's an enormous country no people immensely wealthy uh all educated there is a there is an exceptionalism there okay yeah I mean we all talk about American exceptionalism or Indian exceptionalism but there is also this Canadian exceptionalism thing you know but we are this wonderful democracy that and this the thing is about this wonderful way before 9 11 kanishka bombing happened yes indeed and you would think that it it would hit them more no no because I mean go that I think kanishka bombing remains a blot in Canada and I have spoken to many officials Canadian officials who say that you know we cannot forget the kanishka bombing true uh I mean but cut to the 2000s uh large swaths of Canadian real estate was being given off to the Chinese who came in and bought because they didn't want to spend | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-23 | in and bought because they didn't want to spend the money in their own country and they bought large swaths of land Etc in in Canada moved to Canada until they became a security threat so do you think that like you've given me the Nexus so you've spoken about the Nexus between Pakistan and the kalistanis it's a real Nexus Nexus do you think that like what you're saying is that if the Chinese are buying property they would be influencing politics too and you know there's a grand plan between the China Pakistan Nexus against India so you know to to use the fissures that exist in India already to make that larger and you know do you think that or am I being too much of an alarm is still here look uh we have no evidence right now but it is not inconceivable I mean uh if the if the points all match there's nothing to say that I mean China and Pakistan are collaborating in Bangladesh yeah so there is nothing to say that they are not they | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-24 | there is nothing to say that they are not they would not be collaborating in Canada yeah uh so and so yes I mean I I would say that certainly that would be one of the things that the Indian system would would be very very uh sensitive and concerned about because you know we do have uh social Fishers we have uh there are security threats of variety uh of you know of of varying degrees and varying kinds um that ending government in India would have to be extremely extremely alert to right you know I'm going to come back to this whole students thing because the advisory was also about tourists and about you know uh students who are going to study there now I couldn't find a countrywise breakup in in Canada but it's estimated that Indian students make about 35 percent now that's a large number and given the kind of advisory you know parents who are sending their kids to America who sent their kids in sorry not America to Canada um they'd be worried right now how safe are | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-25 | um they'd be worried right now how safe are Indian children in universities there and if if you were a parent who has a kid studying in uh in University or working in in Canada uh how worried should they be and what is the precaution that they should take in your view so just to give you some numbers um you know last year that was 21 uh Canada issued 217 000 student visas to Indians and only 105 000 student visas to China that is uh very interesting and just this year I mean and this is you know when uh when in the middle of it in the middle of covid when actually people were taking deferred admission or not going and things yeah and uh I think we haven't completed 22 but I think until until the first half of the uh year we've already sent 60 000 students to Canada right and uh which by the way is only second to the Americans I mean the Americans the at the at the top of the list India is number two uh so that that's just two but | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-26 | is number two uh so that that's just two but to go back to your question yes of course you know I mean if I am a parent um and my daughter was going to Canada to study an advisory would like this would make me wonder I would probably burn up the phone lines with her every day um and uh but you know people who are uh from I would probably see the advisory the minute it was issued yeah but but I would imagine that in large number of parents uh may not see that advisory instantly or a large number of their children may not see that advisory instantly and uh how they would be able to deal with it or how they um manage anxieties and parentalings anxiety is a real thing as you know perfectly well so you know I mean you wouldn't have seen it because you know a large number of students or large number of people who go to Canada the Visa is issued yeah many I think more than 50 65 of them are from Punjab and some | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-27 | 50 65 of them are from Punjab and some of them you know come from rural Punjab who probably not up with what the mea puts out as an advisory sure so you know they come from from you know economically backward sections they go there to Canada they're doing double shift sometimes they're studying in the day in a college or in a in a vocational College trying to get a degree at the same time work so you know there's a lot of anxiety that these people are under anyway when they are abroad and funds are less right I mean the jobs are less the pressures are too much uh post covet there aren't enough jobs going for immigrants especially so how does one deal with this should they be advised about these things before they leave for Canada or should the Indian consulates and Embassy in uh in Toronto put out in in Ottawa Toronto Vancouver sorry the other places where there are a number of Indians should they be training them putting out advisories what should they do | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-28 | training them putting out advisories what should they do well couple of things one uh I mean remember that for Punjab Canada is like the Holy Grail everybody I mean isn't that this temple temple in Punjab which has a an airplane on top which is sort of the the aspiration I mean it's kind of aspiration yeah become religion but it I mean we make jokes about it sure but it is a big thing for the Punjab for the average Punjabi to be able to they sell their land they you know they do all sorts of stuff taken terrible unsustainable debt to send children to to Canada right uh in the hope of a better life obviously yeah which is um now I don't know if you remember but I think it was last year maybe it was the year before uh that there were these uh videos of these young uh kids from Punjab who had fallen prey to uh drug rackets prostitution rackets because they just had to make ends meet and are their parents after | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-29 | had to make ends meet and are their parents after sort of almost killing themselves to provide the money for the passage really didn't have anything anymore uh to give to them so it is a there is there are there are human tragic stories as well which is part of this whole state to state uh issue and so what should we do you know first we have to at least in India we need to understand the depth of the punjabi's desire to migrate to Canada it is beyond a joke right now I mean it is a that it's a real thing yeah there is what are the drivers and certainly we it the state government in Punjab or certainly central government there should definitely be an Outreach at the at the local levels to educate people advise them sensitize them about realities in Canada what they see in pictures what they see in movies uh Etc it's just not it maybe also like okay uh that to burst the bubble is another thing but also to teach them how to | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-30 | is another thing but also to teach them how to assimilate maybe when you when they go you know that's one that's the next step first is to the The Next Step should definitely be a one-month crash course in assimilation in how do you integrate in Canadian society and something to that to that effect it is I mean sure I think the a mission in maybe they do some of it already you know uh the Indian Missions but certainly the Indian Missions should uh take up this thing about because you know these are kids like why why is it that it doesn't happen see even gujaratis have been going in large numbers remember the the family of entire family and they've all they were doing is being illegal immigrants into America part of that racket so there are rackets these rackets these immigration rackets are they include Canada to walk across from a Canadian from Canada across into some some of the you know the Midwest uh but you don't hear these horror stories of somebody being beaten up | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-31 | hear these horror stories of somebody being beaten up or somebody being or a motel owned by a Patel which is being vandalized just because there are gujaratis yeah but you know I mean look there was a I think it was in May or June this year or just the other day there was this uh swaminarayan Temple that got yeah that got vandalized and but that's by the kalistan Again by the kalistanis and that goes to uh this uh the divisions between the Hindus and the Sikhs in can in in Canada the Indian origin one do you think that the that what happened in Leicester is similar kind of a thing or do you see do you see this kind of thing spreading now to other countries as well what happened so to if to to go back to my previous point the I'd say that if the Indian government in the Indian Mission has a duty to uh maybe keep tabs on these people on the students um the Canadian government certainly has a duty to make | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-32 | the Canadian government certainly has a duty to make sure that the communities that live Indian origin communities that live that they should go out of their way to make sure that there is peace between these two communities yeah and uh I mean let us not let us not get into the blame game we know that there is a khalistan extremist Network there something like this if not nipped not there's no nipping in the bud anymore but certainly if it is not controlled or contained there will be responses from other parts other communities as well if you remember there was this one incident recently where it was a fast food joint and there was this man who came and started yelling at an Indian he was probably a South Indian because he had come you know the accent or whatever he got angry with him and you know you're a cow piss Drinker and you're a vegetarian and started screaming and yelling and there was no way to figure out it was only towards the end of his rant which was | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-33 | was only towards the end of his rant which was a very very long rant when he said Indira Gandhi and things then people figured out that he was probably a kalistani and then you know post that event and they said oh he's a kalistani but initially it seemed like he was just an American who was screaming you know so that's that's exactly the point I mean you if the thing is it helps nobody if communities who live in a country um particularly who have their origin in a different country energy cannot get along it is but to to go to the York a very good question about Leicester whether Leicester has any lessons I'd say Lester has a lot of lessons for uh I mean they may not be the same and this the trigger in Leicester were a couple of different things uh it was uh supposedly whatever it was it was a cricket match it was a sadhvi uh visit and so but then that became an Hindu Muslim thing that became a Hindu Muslim thing | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-34 | Muslim thing that became a Hindu Muslim thing and in India Pakistan thing this this could just be an India India thing right because that's just what it happens right yes it becomes very difficult for say a white Canadian or a white American to say tell the difference yeah tell the difference because they look the same probably because not every uh Sikh is a turban wearing seat right so they could be without turbans and the women you can't tell at all right but in the Indian women uh do women or the Christian Indian Christian Indian Hindu Indians seek they all look the same to anybody and they look the same to us too as Indians right so this this becomes an issue uh for for Americans or for Canadians to figure out what's happening so I I've met many Canadians who say like didn't this get resolved many years ago when the whole khalistan thing and you talk to them about it didn't this get resolved a whole and uh the same thing now Indians are saying the same thing | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-35 | same thing now Indians are saying the same thing too that why has this started all over again is this it started all over again largely because we have a neighbor that is uh that is an inimical neighbor and it is it it it works for them to resurrect things like this because these are all low-cost proxy war uh efforts so but we recognize them the Canadians probably need to be you know probably we need a much longer deeper security conversation between Indians and Canadians to truly get the get to the bottom of this I mean at some point Canada will have to figure out that it's domestic politics uh interferes with its uh foreign policy you know we were talking about uh making um making Indians more receptive to understand the cultural uh differences and how to assimilate in the country that you are going to it also happens with some basic basic terms that we use you know they get misinterpreted so much for example um like somebody might just turn around and say oh I'm a pure | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-36 | might just turn around and say oh I'm a pure vegetarian what does that mean exactly so when you go it's only those who are well traveled in India it's a very common term to say I'm a pure vegetarian it only means in India that I'm a vegetarian who doesn't eat egg also that hence a pure vegetarian so if you have cake fishes fish is vegetation right so a vegetarian could have so many interpretations had means a pure vegetarian is like I'm a see now you've complicated matters further right terms when you when you use that say Canada or the us or UK are you calling me impure and then even this I've seen this even in second generation Indians you know Indian American second generation Indian Canadian second generation Indian Brits the kids turn around and say what's this pure vegetarian are you being castist because they think pure vegetarian you're trying to say you're a brahmana so it's like oh are you trying to say that you're a vegan when you say pure vegetarian how | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-37 | you're a vegan when you say pure vegetarian how do you make anybody understand this so this is a very simple yeah I don't know absolutely it's a there are and see so for some countries you don't need to have that uh sort of Education or sensitizing sensitization uh lessons perhaps in say America you don't you didn't need it indrani but now everybody's become hypersensitive well that's also that is everywhere in the world you know I mean outrage is the dominant dominant emotion across the world right now I cannot only tell you that my outrage is bigger than yours but it is and uh we find lots of things to be too outrage about but as I I mean you know you didn't have to worry about these things with say America you did suddenly you found you had to worry about uh integration and assimilation in Australia failure remember a few years ago we ran into a similar a huge problem on the student front uh so that again you know some degree of | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-38 | front uh so that again you know some degree of sensitization is important because there are you know where as so during our time perhaps or maybe before us a certain class migrated because they yeah sure absolutely now you are it now the whole process is democratized yeah it is spread to at two parts of the country that maybe didn't have the same upbringing that you did correct and uh for them yeah it's uh uh I once had a uh sadar woman newlywed uh sitting next to me on a flight from here to to London and she she was fully dressed in her Bridal outfit and she said she said I said you played London and she said she said I said I said she said because she has been married off to a bartender in L.A and she was going from Roper District in Punjab fully as a bride to a completely new world I have no idea we've read enough books and we know what it is like I mean going with bags of sarees which nobody knew | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-39 | going with bags of sarees which nobody knew that you have to starch them on your own and there's no starch and there's no start right so these are things you've read about uh you know but every generation of immigrants faces a new kind of Challenge and now I mean I think at that time probably in the 80s or 70s though that generation which went I mean I don't remember the 60s generation discussing with them but the 70s and 80s generation had a different kind of issue but it was not life or death but now it's become that it's become that serious so you know I mean really this government I mean the Modi government has a very strong diaspora uh Outreach and diaspora Outreach I think it's time for the the people managing that particular Outreach to make sure that your people are safe and and no it sort of arm them with tools of integrating in societies that they adopt um across across the world and yeah I think that's something that they should uh | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-40 | and yeah I think that's something that they should uh they should take up uh you know you know I I saw the Canadian advisory and one of the things that really uh shocked me and I got annoyed but then I realized that maybe it's right is the whole marriage trap where they advise Canadians watch out because you could be tricked into marriage absolutely right so I don't want to think that about fellow Indians but it's true but at the same time I realized that I remember the time also in in UK the high commission was besieged and they still are besieged with Indian women who of you know who face Dowry related pressures you know it's even in the Pakistani women face this where where they're killed when they or honor killing honor killing honor killing is a big thing right okay but the whole honor killing thing Indian High commissions all over the world took it very seriously on educating the diaspora about these do you think that now it there's | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-41 | about these do you think that now it there's need to even talk about not falling into you know the drug Trap by using you know Indians uh Indian students or Indians who go from poorer strata of society who go to Canada and fall victim to these gangs which are operating and use them as you know for drug mewling for prostitution and all kinds of rockets I'm you know I always hesitate to put everything at the feet of the government okay because if you look at our governments their government state capacity is pathetic okay in a very little State capacity I would say that communities that Community Elders or Community leaders should and should step in things like you know say the say temples have Community leaders for instance you know the swaminarayan temple they're a very very uh aware community and it would not it would not hurt them see these are your kids right these are your kids and frankly the we cannot say that everything should be the responsibility of the government so maybe the government could | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-42 | the responsibility of the government so maybe the government could make them aware that now it's the time I think it's also families who have gone through this who need to set up support groups you know when you do have support groups for everything in this world now there needs to be you should have support groups for families in Punjab who send their children to uh to Canada and it have them talk to each other talk to parents and build build support networks Community Support networks to sort of keep their children out of trouble right and it is important too uh indrani like uh in in many countries which are wealthier countries of course uh schools have counselors College colleges have counselors and they counsel their kids when they it's that study abroad program right if they're doing a year of study abroad the council but in our schools I don't think we equip our kids we do only at a very uh only Elite schools Elite schools we don't we do there is no bandwidth frankly there are not enough | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-43 | is no bandwidth frankly there are not enough schools in this country there are not enough teachers there are not enough counselors there are you know two to say that this would ideally you're right that ideally we should have uh this should be at the school level but no again there is a capacity constraint okay there is a capacity constraint and you're a 1.3 odd billion people with X number of schools which just do not add up so do you think that uh uh you know this the issue of uh kalistan and the issue of uh attacks on Indians this is something which uh which should now be escalated to the Prime Minister levels because you know Justin Trudeau and Prime Minister Modi did meet uh and should should it be escalated to that level for them to take it seriously enough for Canada to take it seriously enough you know uh um again I don't think that would help at this point it has to get it has to get to a certain point for it to get to prime | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-44 | to a certain point for it to get to prime minister levels uh you know we when we talk about how do we resolve this I think we have to use a number of levers and one is certainly Community Society business you know as you said Can Canada Canadian Pension funds invest massively I mean just yesterday I think the Ontario teachers pension fund um said they would be investing some really large amount of money let me tell you how much um so and it would be five to ten percent of their teachers pension fund now remember Millions yeah billions billions yeah but remember that teachers pension Pension funds are the most that's where Pension funds go a lot of other Investments follow because Pension funds are the most strict uh scrutinized because they are taking money from teachers it's their pension that they are investing so we have we have the Ontario teachers pension fund but that says more about Indian uh you know India being a safe destination for investment it's actually Indian business you know remember these | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-45 | for investment it's actually Indian business you know remember these are funds they're not bringing people here this is money so if India was not a safe destination for people this is not people people are not traveling right Aces only their money traveling if their money travels to a country if the country is volatile is so volatile that their people cannot come then why would their money come no I I know you want to draw distinctions yes I don't want you to hurt this section this is where you and I differ because money has other there are different metrics that Money Follows okay and that has to do with the stability of your financial system uh and your investment uh in environment it is to do with uh the areas that they invest in and look at what they invest in they invest in your new new age uh sectors you know your fintech your renewable energies your transition a lot of that cppib a lot of it is in their trans is in what they call transition funds helping companies move to a | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-46 | they call transition funds helping companies move to a renewable Future these are all very uh um to use Hindi word okay um stuff but you know I mean that it it it would be we would have to use them too yeah for a sensitization at in Canada as well as you know Indians not time come to do that now I think I see Indians not going to tell Canadian investment we will not allow you to invest in India until you tell your people no that would be drastic insane and uh nobody is going to do that but I think at at popular levels too there has to be a greater uh sensitization of Canadian leaderships so you would today advise Indians uh that there is no need to panic but they need to be vigilant is that it I would say there definitely needs to need to be vigilant we there there is I don't think there is a need need to panic certainly but I would say that where the government should get in is to act actively call for uh | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
96e856933e77-47 | should get in is to act actively call for uh a deeper security dialogue with with Canada I mean you know we are we are actually negotiating a sepa correct NFTA and that should be done pretty soon there are complementarities between the Canadian economy and ours there's huge opportunities uh uh on both ends and uh you don't want the security the security to be a wrinkle in your relations and at the moment it is a very big Wrinkle in the relations right thank you so much for speaking with us indrani thank you very much that was a pleasure thank you for listening in to a i podcast with Smitha prakash like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen or heard this namaste foreign [Music] | 7nMNzTjbQZo |
985c0c894e5f-0 | Congress is the pivot of any non-bjp Coalition yes y-e-s yes okay we are not going to play anymore is it repackaging of Mr organ the undoubtedly is it strengthening of the congress party undoubtedly is it to take on the BJP and set a narrative for 2024 undoubtedly prime minister has said in 2009 I was the one who introduced the cheetah project you're watching Ani podcast with Smitha prakash now today we speak with jairam Ramesh he has been picked by uh the Gandhi family presumably to head the media and communication uh cell of the congress party now he he came in when there was already a pretty active media and communication cell Mr surjywala was heading it so everybody wondered what is it that he's going to bring new to the table because you know um he has a history of being Rahul Gandhi's daddy's boy in the sense that he was he worked in with Rajiv Gandhi's team with Sam petrona he worked with | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-1 | Gandhi's team with Sam petrona he worked with Manmohan saying Dr Manmohan saying he worked with Sita RAM kesri and you know everybody before Rahul Gandhi came onto the political Spectrum so one wondered what he's going to bring to the table more of the Old Guard but not really he's become uh it's a new Avatar of jayram Ramesh that you're watching you're seeing him being super aggressive taking on the BJP on on every media platform on social media on traditional media uh and he's he's very angry you know when it comes to the way media has been uh so-called cheating him I spoke to him uh during the course of the interview about you know this victim mentality that the Congress has with regard to how the media treats and he came on pretty strong it was a very interesting talk so listen in as to what jairam Ramesh has to say about the media about Rahul Gandhi about Bharat joro about his term uh when he was a | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-2 | joro about his term uh when he was a minister about his years in in IIT in MIT what it was like to work with all the stalwarts of the congress party and now with his new Avatar in Bharat jodo I thank you so much for coming with us and talking to Ani podcast with Smitha prakash there's something new that we've started we're already late we should have done this years ago but uh now you know it's like there are so many formats so you want to get into every format so we say said well why not start with this now there are several questions that I have I mean you speaking to the media every day but uh everybody right that's my job normally I wouldn't do it correct you are uh like the youngsters of today even the young journalists don't know that you were you're doing this long ago you were an anchor well in 94 95 you know I I had to make some money you know I couldn't survive on a government salary and at the | 2qzerKsp-cA |