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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
who proved the Fermat's last theorem.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
So he just saw this recently
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
and it kind of caught my eye a little bit.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
This is 358 years after it was conjectured.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
So this is very simple formulation.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
Everybody tried to prove it, everybody failed.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And so here's this guy comes along
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
and eventually proves it and then fails to prove it
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
and then proves it again in 94.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And he said like the moment when everything connected
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
into place in an interview said
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
it was so indescribably beautiful.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
That moment when you finally realize the connecting piece
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
of two conjectures.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
He said, it was so indescribably beautiful.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
It was so simple and so elegant.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
I couldn't understand how I'd missed it.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And I just stared at it in disbelief for 20 minutes.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
Then during the day, I walked around the department
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
and I keep coming back to my desk
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
looking to see if it was still there.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
It was still there.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
I couldn't contain myself.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
I was so excited.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
It was the most important moment on my working life.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
Nothing I ever do again will mean as much.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
So that particular moment.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And it kind of made me think of what would it take?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And I think we have all been there at small levels.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
Maybe let me ask, have you had a moment like that
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
in your life where you just had an idea?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
It's like, wow, yes.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
I wouldn't mention myself in the same breath
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
as Andrew Wiles, but I've certainly had a number
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
of aha moments when I realized something very cool
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
about physics, which has completely made my head explode.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
In fact, some of my favorite discoveries I made later,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
I later realized that they had been discovered earlier
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
by someone who sometimes got quite famous for it.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
So it's too late for me to even publish it,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
but that doesn't diminish in any way.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
The emotional experience you have when you realize it,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
like, wow.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
Yeah, so what would it take in that moment, that wow,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
that was yours in that moment?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
So what do you think it takes for an intelligence system,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
an AGI system, an AI system to have a moment like that?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
That's a tricky question
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
because there are actually two parts to it, right?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
One of them is, can it accomplish that proof?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
Can it prove that you can never write A to the N
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
plus B to the N equals three to that equal Z to the N
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
for all integers, et cetera, et cetera,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
when N is bigger than two?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
That's simply a question about intelligence.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
Can you build machines that are that intelligent?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And I think by the time we get a machine
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
that can independently come up with that level of proofs,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
probably quite close to AGI.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
The second question is a question about consciousness.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
When will we, how likely is it that such a machine
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
will actually have any experience at all,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
as opposed to just being like a zombie?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And would we expect it to have some sort of emotional response
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
to this or anything at all akin to human emotion
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
where when it accomplishes its machine goal,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
it views it as somehow something very positive
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
and sublime and deeply meaningful?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
I would certainly hope that if in the future
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
we do create machines that are our peers
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
or even our descendants, that I would certainly
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
hope that they do have this sublime appreciation of life.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
In a way, my absolutely worst nightmare
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
would be that at some point in the future,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
the distant future, maybe our cosmos
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
is teeming with all this post biological life doing
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
all the seemingly cool stuff.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And maybe the last humans, by the time
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
our species eventually fizzles out,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
will be like, well, that's OK because we're
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
so proud of our descendants here.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And look what all the, my worst nightmare
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
is that we haven't solved the consciousness problem.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And we haven't realized that these are all the zombies.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
They're not aware of anything any more than a tape recorder
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
has any kind of experience.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
So the whole thing has just become
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
a play for empty benches.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
That would be the ultimate zombie apocalypse.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
So I would much rather, in that case,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
that we have these beings which can really
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
appreciate how amazing it is.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
And in that picture, what would be the role of creativity?
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
A few people ask about creativity.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
When you think about intelligence,
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
certainly the story you told at the beginning of your book
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
involved creating movies and so on, making money.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
You can make a lot of money in our modern world
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
with music and movies.
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
So if you are an intelligent system,
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