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Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Mm-hmm. I want- I want John Carlos to grow up with Oscar. So he has his friend when he's young, too. And, um, I just, it's a lot of stress and a lot of things you-you gotta think about then, um, I'm not feeling good about it.
therapist: Mm-hmm, so what-what would need to happen or how would you know, when you- when or if you ever did have to make a decision about whether to keep Oscar with you or not?
client: Man, uh, how would I know? I don't know. I think if my asthma got really bad and the medicine- she gave me the strongest medicine and it wasn't working.
therapist: Mm-hmm.
client: That would be the way right now 'cause I can't see, I don't know how I'm going to give this dog up. | Yeah and I get the feeling that it's something that you wanna think about that this is a really big decision- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Man, uh, how would I know? I don't know. I think if my asthma got really bad and the medicine- she gave me the strongest medicine and it wasn't working.
therapist: Mm-hmm.
client: That would be the way right now 'cause I can't see, I don't know how I'm going to give this dog up.
therapist: Yeah and I get the feeling that it's something that you wanna think about that this is a really big decision-
client: Mm-hmm. | -and it's not one that you're gonna make in a hurry. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: -correct?
client: Exactly.
therapist: So what I would recommend then, is to move your smoking outside completely. As a smoker, the ideal situation for a smoker in the house is if their home can be made smoke-free and the smoking is moved entirely outside, especially while he's experiencing this cold.
client: Yeah, well, you know that sounds okay. While he's sick, I might be able to smoke outside in the next couple days or so, but the thing is, usually I'm craving a cigarette the most when I have a glass of wine at the end of the day. I put Jake to bed, I open up a bottle and I pour myself a glass and I'm finally able to unwind, so, I get a craving for a cigarette, so, I'm not sure long-term I'd be able to smoke outside. | Okay, so, what I'm hearing you say is that, it sounds like a feasible short-term plan, not ideal and not comfortable because what you really enjoy is that cigarette with a glass of wine, kicking back up on the sofa and chilling out perhaps while you're watching TV. And to maintain that long-term outside smoking outside in Canadian winters where it's cold and snowy, not realistic. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Exactly.
therapist: So what I would recommend then, is to move your smoking outside completely. As a smoker, the ideal situation for a smoker in the house is if their home can be made smoke-free and the smoking is moved entirely outside, especially while he's experiencing this cold.
client: Yeah, well, you know that sounds okay. While he's sick, I might be able to smoke outside in the next couple days or so, but the thing is, usually I'm craving a cigarette the most when I have a glass of wine at the end of the day. I put Jake to bed, I open up a bottle and I pour myself a glass and I'm finally able to unwind, so, I get a craving for a cigarette, so, I'm not sure long-term I'd be able to smoke outside.
therapist: Okay, so, what I'm hearing you say is that, it sounds like a feasible short-term plan, not ideal and not comfortable because what you really enjoy is that cigarette with a glass of wine, kicking back up on the sofa and chilling out perhaps while you're watching TV. And to maintain that long-term outside smoking outside in Canadian winters where it's cold and snowy, not realistic.
client: Yeah, exactly and another thing is that sometimes in the morning, after I've had a couple of glasses of wine, I kinda feel tired or groggy or low on energy, so, even that I'm not sure is completely relaxing. Especially if I've had a cigarette the night before, I always feel so bad. | So, on the one hand I'm hearing smoking and drinking at night as a way to chill out but at the same time the next day, you're not feeling so great. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Exactly.
therapist: Would it be helpful to give you some information on low risk drinking guidelines?
client: Sure. I've never heard of them.
therapist: Okay. Well, Hailey, what they suggest is that women don't have more than one to two standard drinks a day or a total of nine standard drinks in a week. How does that fit for you?
client: Well, usually I'm having more than two glasses but if you're saying that's gonna minimize some risk and I guess some of the grogginess I'm feeling the next morning, then maybe I should just try and have one glass of wine in the evenings? | So, it sounds like you'd be open to reducing as a way to still enjoy the wine but perhaps alleviate the way you feel in the morning, some of the hangover effects that sounds like you're experiencing. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: No. I think just talking about it was helpful, you know, and I'm- I'm glad you've given me some information. Maybe just this week I can think about it a little more, you know, I-I feel pretty overwhelmed right now. There's so much to do. My days are pretty full, so, maybe I can just s-sit on it for a week.
therapist: Sure, of course, Hailey a-and again I really appreciate your openness and honesty about letting me know what's going on with, you know, the stress levels and coping and drinking. I just had a thought that there's also a good mom's group, we run out of our center. So if you'd like a referral to that or some information, I'd be happy to give you and while you think about it, if you want to, um, talk about this further with one of my colleagues, I'd be happy to make you an appointment.
client: All right. That sounds good. Thanks, Dr.
therapist: Thanks, Hailey. We'll see you next week.
client: Dr. Morrow, I'm so relieved I'm not pregnant. | Huh, you feel like you dodged the bullet. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Even just being here today is like minutes ticking by.
therapist: Okay.
client: It's really good news.
therapist: So what would have happened if you found out that you were pregnant?
client: I don't even know. I'm-I'm not ready to have a kid. I know that. I know my life is not ready for that step. | Okay. That's a big step and that's not the direction you want to go in right now. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I don't even know. I'm-I'm not ready to have a kid. I know that. I know my life is not ready for that step.
therapist: Okay. That's a big step and that's not the direction you want to go in right now.
client: Yeah, no.
therapist: Would you be open to kind of exploring the idea of birth control and family planning?
client: Um, I don't really want to go there. I just-- that sort of stuff just weirds me out. Yeah, I take something fun and just makes it really medical. | Now, it's a discussion you don't really wanna have. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah, no.
therapist: Would you be open to kind of exploring the idea of birth control and family planning?
client: Um, I don't really want to go there. I just-- that sort of stuff just weirds me out. Yeah, I take something fun and just makes it really medical.
therapist: Now, it's a discussion you don't really wanna have.
client: No. | At the same time, you have some concerns about the possibility of getting pregnant. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Um, I don't really want to go there. I just-- that sort of stuff just weirds me out. Yeah, I take something fun and just makes it really medical.
therapist: Now, it's a discussion you don't really wanna have.
client: No.
therapist: At the same time, you have some concerns about the possibility of getting pregnant.
client: Yeah, I mean I'm-I'm careful. I do what I can, but I don't wanna take anything for that. | So you found some ways to prevent pregnancy up until-- well, maybe, um, you've been pretty fortunate, and then there is also some times where you feel like, "Oh, no. What if I didn't dodge the bullet?" |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah, I mean I'm-I'm careful. I do what I can, but I don't wanna take anything for that.
therapist: So you found some ways to prevent pregnancy up until-- well, maybe, um, you've been pretty fortunate, and then there is also some times where you feel like, "Oh, no. What if I didn't dodge the bullet?"
client: Yeah. It's-it's scary. I mean, this is the first time I've ever had that sort of feeling of "What am I gonna do?"
therapist: Mm-hmm.
client: And-and that fear was like-- yeah. Up until now, I've been good, yeah. | Okay. So, you've been able to kind of avoid any kind of consequences, and right now, you're not feeling that talking about birth control is something on your-your list. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | therapist: Okay. I respect that. Thanks though for coming in to see me today.
client: Yeah.
therapist: And I'm glad that this appointment was a positive one for you.
client: Thank you.
therapist: You're welcome. | Hello, again, Mr. Green. It's really nice to see you again. If you remember last week, we looked at your results here and you've got impaired glucose tolerance and you were a bit worried about type two diabetes, your blood pressure and your cholesterol are up a bit too. So today, we're meeting up to talk through some of the things that you could do for yourself that might improve the situation. And as you know, there's all sorts of things can affect your health. So can we just have a bit of a general chat, but how are you getting on? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | therapist: You're welcome.
therapist: Hello, again, Mr. Green. It's really nice to see you again. If you remember last week, we looked at your results here and you've got impaired glucose tolerance and you were a bit worried about type two diabetes, your blood pressure and your cholesterol are up a bit too. So today, we're meeting up to talk through some of the things that you could do for yourself that might improve the situation. And as you know, there's all sorts of things can affect your health. So can we just have a bit of a general chat, but how are you getting on?
client: Well, I suppose you're gonna give me a row and tell me it's all self-inflicted and I've got to change my ways and give up the things I enjoy.
therapist: Actually, I'm not going to do that because you're the boss. It's up to you what you want to do with you about your own health.
client: The doc said I've got to take pills for the rest of my life. | You don't seem too happy about that. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Where do you think I should start?
therapist: Well, I could give you my opinion. Um, and I can give you lots of information, but I think you know the score pretty well. And I think you'd know what I would say.
client: Yeah, uh, you tell me, stop smoking and lose weight and take more exercise, wouldn’t you?
therapist: Absolutely. Spot on. So stopping smoking would have a huge impact, that would have a big impact very early on. Losing weight would also have a big impact because that would help with your blood pressure, your cholesterol, and also lower your diabetes risk. So what-what'd you think about those things? Uh,
client: Uh, I loved to lose weight but it's so hard giving up the things you enjoy. | It’s really tough. It's hard to know where to start, isn't it? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yes. I want to be there for them, but not a burden to them.
therapist: Yeah. So w-where do you think you can start with that?
client: Uh, I've been thinking about them a lot lately, and I want to be there for them. So have to do what I need to, to improve my health.
therapist: What's kind of the first thing you might think about doing?
client: You know, to start with, I could cut down on my drinking. Um, that's adding to my weight and to my blood pressure, isn't it? | Yeah. That would be a really good place to start, mm-hmm. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Uh, I've been thinking about them a lot lately, and I want to be there for them. So have to do what I need to, to improve my health.
therapist: What's kind of the first thing you might think about doing?
client: You know, to start with, I could cut down on my drinking. Um, that's adding to my weight and to my blood pressure, isn't it?
therapist: Yeah. That would be a really good place to start, mm-hmm.
client: In fact, I think I'll try and cut out the booze altogether. My wife says I drink too much at the weekends. | So I think it should be really supportive of that then. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: In fact, I think I'll try and cut out the booze altogether. My wife says I drink too much at the weekends.
therapist: So I think it should be really supportive of that then.
client: And I suppose I could cut out the crisps and pies at works.
therapist: So what would you do to make sure you didn't get hungry at work?
client: I'm gonna start having soup at lunchtime. I suppose a big bowl of soup would be far better than two pies. | Yeah. Well, a big bowl of vegetable soup. You could probably count that as one or maybe even two of your five a day. So it'd be a really good place to start. Anything else you could think about doing? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I'm gonna start having soup at lunchtime. I suppose a big bowl of soup would be far better than two pies.
therapist: Yeah. Well, a big bowl of vegetable soup. You could probably count that as one or maybe even two of your five a day. So it'd be a really good place to start. Anything else you could think about doing?
client: Well, there's one, one thing uh, I've done already, I've stopped adding salt to my food. The doc said that would help with my blood pressure.
therapist: Well, that's good. That's probably benefited you already. And the other thing you might not be aware of is that salt intake is linked to loss of calcium from our bones, which makes the bones more fragile. So reducing your salt intake will really help with that too.
client: Well, I didn't know that. Um, it's good to know. I'll tell my wife, um, she's still very fond of her salt and her mother had osteoporosis. | So well, maybe you can help her as well and that would be good. Well, I think you've got off to a really great start, Mr. Green. You're very well aware of what you-you need to do, and you've obviously thought about it and got some good plans in place. So you're going to reduce your-your alcohol intake, you've already started by reducing your salt intake. Um, perhaps when we meet up next time we could talk a little bit about smoking and exercise as well, when you're ready for that. So how do you feel now? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Right. Neat. What, um, what have I changed, what am I—
therapist: What you've been thinking about, um, over the last little while about getting your life back on track. 'Cause I noticed you've—
client: I've been thinking about how easy it would be to deal P again.
therapist: Yeah.
client: I mean, I've been thinking about, um, how I could actually set myself up the right way doing it the wrong way. | Sure. So what I'm picking up is-is that-that-that's a life that you know a lot about. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Mm.
therapist: And you can make lots of money and set yourself up well. What's the other side, because I guess when I talk to guys like yourself who have done time, often they're thinking about actually, mm, maybe life can be with different. So I'm wondering where-where you're at with the kind of thinking about—
client: Well, at the end of, you know, that last week inside, I was- I had that kind of, okay, what's next buzz? And, you know, it just doesn't work out here.
therapist: Okay.
client: I don't have a, uh, uh, I don't know what that is. | Sure. So life on the outside is pretty different than the kind of- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Um, I don't know why I haven't said that I will yet but I mean-
therapist: Uh, tell me-
client: -it's there.
therapist: It's there and-and-and you've a lot of contacts?
client: Yeah. | You've been in the system, so lots of context. So this isn't a new challenge for you. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Three weeks, one day.
therapist: Three weeks, isn't it?
client: Three weeks, one day.
therapist: So what's been there? What's it about that you haven't done in three weeks one day?
client: I don't know. | 22 days you've actually made a decision not to-to pick up your old life and continue on. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I don't know.
therapist: 22 days you've actually made a decision not to-to pick up your old life and continue on.
client: Um, I'd- I- you know, I kind of told myself not to, you know, just before I left. And then I'm just kind of with it and I don't quite know why. [clears throat] I dunno, if, uh, there's no real reason why I haven't yet. It's just that I don't- I just don't think it'll work the way I always dream it will you know, I see myself up like, whatever, if I do that again, the next leg is a long one. A real long one.
therapist: Okay.
client: And I-I can't go back there. There's no way I'm going back there. | Right. So the one hand you've-you-you could sit yourself up and-and take the risk, but on the other hand, you know, that actually it might not last? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Um, I'd- I- you know, I kind of told myself not to, you know, just before I left. And then I'm just kind of with it and I don't quite know why. [clears throat] I dunno, if, uh, there's no real reason why I haven't yet. It's just that I don't- I just don't think it'll work the way I always dream it will you know, I see myself up like, whatever, if I do that again, the next leg is a long one. A real long one.
therapist: Okay.
client: And I-I can't go back there. There's no way I'm going back there.
therapist: Right. So the one hand you've-you-you could sit yourself up and-and take the risk, but on the other hand, you know, that actually it might not last?
client: No, never lasts. | Never lasts. Mm. You seem like a bit of a crossroads to me. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: And I-I can't go back there. There's no way I'm going back there.
therapist: Right. So the one hand you've-you-you could sit yourself up and-and take the risk, but on the other hand, you know, that actually it might not last?
client: No, never lasts.
therapist: Never lasts. Mm. You seem like a bit of a crossroads to me.
client: Yep. I've been in crossroads for 12 years. | Mm. But there've been times when those crossroads would be more sort of focused than other times. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: No, never lasts.
therapist: Never lasts. Mm. You seem like a bit of a crossroads to me.
client: Yep. I've been in crossroads for 12 years.
therapist: Mm. But there've been times when those crossroads would be more sort of focused than other times.
client: Yeah. And- [crosstalk] | Yeah. And it sounds like maybe like- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: She's told me that it's over if I do it. You know, I mean, she-- What tell you about, Fiona I mean she's been with me. She's the one who stayed through all the shit. And I owe her-
therapist: Okay.
client: -something.
therapist: Okay. So you've been with Fiona for how long?
client: 12 years. | 12 years. Okay. So she's stood by you then for the time, [crosstalk] but this time she said, it happens again I'm out of here? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: -something.
therapist: Okay. So you've been with Fiona for how long?
client: 12 years.
therapist: 12 years. Okay. So she's stood by you then for the time, [crosstalk] but this time she said, it happens again I'm out of here?
client: Yeah. She's actually got the black and white line down now. | Okay. And it sounds like you're listening to that black and white line. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: And I mean, I honest- I don't know, man. I don't know. I-I wish I knew somewhere I could start that, you know, could give it to her, but I-I can't. I-I don't know.
therapist: All right. Well, let's-let's just play with this idea a little bit, Daryl. So what did Fiona fall in love with? What were the qualities of Daryl that she said, "This is him"?
client: I was pretty romantic. I mean, I was pretty quite smooth, and, um, you know, I was on top of my game, like, she- and she loved it. And we used to laugh in the [unintelligible 00:06:45], you know? And just- it was always really sweet, and people used to say, "Oh, man, you two. You two have just got it," you know? And we lost it, so whatever that was, that's what she wants. We were young. How do you become young? Uh, you know, I'm old, and we'll keep growing old, but you know?
therapist: I know.
client: Like if I'm not careful, I will be. | Sure. Everyone will age, but that will happen on time. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I was pretty romantic. I mean, I was pretty quite smooth, and, um, you know, I was on top of my game, like, she- and she loved it. And we used to laugh in the [unintelligible 00:06:45], you know? And just- it was always really sweet, and people used to say, "Oh, man, you two. You two have just got it," you know? And we lost it, so whatever that was, that's what she wants. We were young. How do you become young? Uh, you know, I'm old, and we'll keep growing old, but you know?
therapist: I know.
client: Like if I'm not careful, I will be.
therapist: Sure. Everyone will age, but that will happen on time.
client: Yeah, certainly. | Um, but that's okay. So-so it's she fell in love with this, the sense of fun, the sense of Daryl, and things have changed, but she's still with you? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: Yeah. And you're still with her?
client: Yeah, yep.
therapist: Yeah. So catch me up with the conversations you've had with Fiona about this crossroads you're at. You know, these 22 days, you haven't gone back, you've coming out and you're not back? You could pick up this dealing quite easily and probably some workout here tomorrow and get back into it.
client: You know what? She hasn't even talked about the dealing, like, she won't even broach that subject. That's how black and white she is. She's- she'll be- she offers suggestions, you know? What I could do, and- or I kind of go with that, but none of them are-- You know, it's lovely that she's really finding things, but they're not the things. I mean, it-- I started kind of placating her and making it okay to keep giving me suggestions, but like, I need to come up with something because it's like awesome love, but you know, not in love, and she's getting sick of it already. | Okay. All right. So-so back together, things are starting to get tense at home, and your relationship a little bit? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah, yep.
therapist: Yeah. So catch me up with the conversations you've had with Fiona about this crossroads you're at. You know, these 22 days, you haven't gone back, you've coming out and you're not back? You could pick up this dealing quite easily and probably some workout here tomorrow and get back into it.
client: You know what? She hasn't even talked about the dealing, like, she won't even broach that subject. That's how black and white she is. She's- she'll be- she offers suggestions, you know? What I could do, and- or I kind of go with that, but none of them are-- You know, it's lovely that she's really finding things, but they're not the things. I mean, it-- I started kind of placating her and making it okay to keep giving me suggestions, but like, I need to come up with something because it's like awesome love, but you know, not in love, and she's getting sick of it already.
therapist: Okay. All right. So-so back together, things are starting to get tense at home, and your relationship a little bit?
client: A little bit that. Yeah, little-little bit tense. Yeah, that's fair. | Yeah. Don't put words in your mouth. I'm sure if that is— |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: It [unintelligible 00:09:33] picking up?
client: Yeah. No idea.
therapist: No idea. Okay. So I'm wondering, you've been in the system a while. You're now 34, is it right from the pick-up?
client: [nods]. | Yeah. So, you know, often at 34, guys start to think about being with a girl in their life and what's important. And-and you would have also been part- not as a guy, so they've actually made some shifts and changes and thought, "Time to move on". |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Okay, so, um—
therapist: Tell me something about that.
client: Well, he-he was- he was inside with me the first time I was ever inside, and now he's a drug counselor.
therapist: Okay.
client: So, he's the- he did it. | He did it? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I don't know what that is.
therapist: Okay, so part of being here with me, and the work we might do, will be to find- try and find- search for that-
client: Okay.
therapist: -thing. Whatever it is.
client: Good luck. | Well, it's a search, isn't it? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Fucking guts.
therapist: Guts? Yeah?
client: Is it a quality?
therapist: I think it is.
client: Yeah, I'd need some of them. | Yeah? So you're the sort of guy, Daryl, with guts? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: No, not yet.
therapist: Not yet?
client: Well, no I'm not.
therapist: Yeah?
client: No, I don't have that-that-that much courage.\ | Yet you're sitting here with me today- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Well, no I'm not.
therapist: Yeah?
client: No, I don't have that-that-that much courage.\
therapist: Yet you're sitting here with me today-
client: Oh, I have to. | -and-and-and you're talking about stuff. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: No, I don't have that-that-that much courage.\
therapist: Yet you're sitting here with me today-
client: Oh, I have to.
therapist: -and-and-and you're talking about stuff.
client: Yeah. | Well, you're sitting here, and you're talking with me- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Oh, I have to.
therapist: -and-and-and you're talking about stuff.
client: Yeah.
therapist: Well, you're sitting here, and you're talking with me-
client: Oh, okay. | -about stuff that's-that's quite deep- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: Well, you're sitting here, and you're talking with me-
client: Oh, okay.
therapist: -about stuff that's-that's quite deep-
client: Yeah. | -in a way. Um, that takes guts. That takes courage. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Okay.
therapist: 'Cause you could've come in here and said-
client: It's a bit awkward.
therapist: -"Look, Ken, you know, I'll come in, report in, I'm outta here."
client: Ah, yeah. I could've done that | You could've done that, but you're not. So I'm wondering what's different? 'Cause you may have done that in the past, I don't know, Daryl, with other people like me, but-but sounds like something's different this time. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I used to take the piss outta you guys-
therapist: Yeah.
client: -all day long. We all do, but-
therapist: Sure.
client: -it's not funny. I mean, and you're-you're a good guy, I imagine. I mean, in fact, you don't deserve my shit. I just-- I don't know. Good luck. | I kind of see a sense of sadness there when you have to kind of think about this. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: -it's not funny. I mean, and you're-you're a good guy, I imagine. I mean, in fact, you don't deserve my shit. I just-- I don't know. Good luck.
therapist: I kind of see a sense of sadness there when you have to kind of think about this.
client: Oh, sadness. You know, I don't wanna wallow, you know? You know, you've gotta take, you know-- You make your own opportunity in life, don't you?
therapist: Yeah.
client: I just never did. | Okay. So I'm interested in this idea, let's, uh-- Opportunities come and go all the time. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I just never did.
therapist: Okay. So I'm interested in this idea, let's, uh-- Opportunities come and go all the time.
client: Do they?
therapist: They do.
client: All right. Not to me. | Well you said before you had an opportunity to pick up and start dealing again. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: All right. Not to me.
therapist: Well you said before you had an opportunity to pick up and start dealing again.
client: Oh, yeah. Oh, heaps of those opportunities.
therapist: And-and so-so-so there's opportunities- there's opportunities in one world, and I'm wondering about what might make it hard to see opportunities in a different world?
client: Yeah, well, the different world isn't offering me opportunities. The different world is offering me a night shift, and minimum wage, and, you know, nothing. So it's like, set-set yourself up, set your goal up, or, um, don't, and that's your-your pro-social living, and that's your, you know, old behaviors. | Sure, sure. You're in the system- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Man, I've been fighting that system-
therapist: Yeah.
client: -and all it takes me back is to the-the inside-
therapist: Okay, okay.
client: -I mean— | So-So again, I'm-I'm wondering about this other world, and you're saying it doesn't look to attractive at the moment. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Well, I can't see it.
therapist: You can't se it?
client: You know what, if I knew what they'd look like-
therapist: Yeah?
client: -I-I might, you know, buy that. | Yeah? You just described to me how it looked like a minute ago. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: You know what, if I knew what they'd look like-
therapist: Yeah?
client: -I-I might, you know, buy that.
therapist: Yeah? You just described to me how it looked like a minute ago.
client: Did I? | Minimum wage- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: -I-I might, you know, buy that.
therapist: Yeah? You just described to me how it looked like a minute ago.
client: Did I?
therapist: Minimum wage-
client: Oh yeah. | -night shift, petrol station. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah, that looks really hard.
therapist: Yeah? It is really hard.
client: I know that's the right thing, uh, don't get me wrong.
therapist: Sure.
client: That is gut right there, going to a job you hate, going home, cooking yet missus a dinner, looking after your kids. I mean, that is-- That's what it real mean does, but I don't have that-- Th-those guts to do- to do what you do. | Sure. We talked about courage before and you've got the guts to be talking with me about this stuff today, and I'm wondering if you actually do have some courage to think about these ideas. I'm not saying that pumping gas at minimum wage is where you wanna go, but-but the guts to actually start steeping into this other world. I wonder if you do have, I'm-I'm-I'm just not sure. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I-- Hmm, maybe.
therapist: Maybe. You're not convinced at the moment, I understand that and, um—
client: No. You know, convince me because, you know, I kind of want to be.
therapist: Sure. Well, it's hard to me to convince you-
client: Right. | -'cause this is your life and this is your story, and you-you've got to walk your life and I can't walk your life for you. I only walk my. And so, but I can walk with you on this life to try and think about-- 'Cause I-I-- You know, I-I've no interest in actually you falling over and going back into-into a lifestyle a crime 'cause I know where it'll take you. And I'm hearing that with your relationship, where it's going to take your relationship too, [unintelligible 00:16:39] got the bottom line drawn pretty clearly. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Mm.
therapist: So it seems like what's gonna push in this direction, just tip that balance a little bit to give this other world of go? Because it is new, it's different. It means doing stuff, a lot of stuff actually that-that's kind of mundane.
client: It is the little things, yeah, like waking up, and having a cup of tea and sitting on the porch is kind of cool.
therapist: It's kind of cool?
client: Yeah. | Not part of on the wire? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: -on the porch.
therapist: You don't. And who's sitting on the porch with you?
client: No one. It's morning, it's just me.
therapist: Mm-hmm.
client: Birds, trees, yada yada. | Cool. So I'm picking up this world actually has the freedom to you to be your own man? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: -it's just massive.
therapist: Yeah it is. It is.
client: It is.
therapist: Absolutely massive. And, uh-- So, is there a challenge you're up to, to start creating some-some-some of that sort of world for Fiona? 'Cause I'm hearing that—
client: You know, people like me are unaccepted into that world though. You know? I've got-- I don't have qualifications. All my mates are in Australia working awesome jobs, mining for 160K a year, you know? Just being men digging holes. Like, if I could do that, yeah, all good but fuck, I have just come out of prison, I don't have any NCEA. I, uh, I had one opportunity and I fucked that because I can't do night shift 'cause I'm lazy. You know? Maybe the world is giving me opportunities and I just don't need them. Maybe I can't do that. | Sure. So what I'm hearing is, you're not convinced at the moment. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it is obviously, it is first steps, but I mean, what's that? What's the first step into the pro-social life?
therapist: Well, you trying to get a job, maybe and get into some routine.
client: I just know if I get a job that I hate, I just won't do it.
therapist: Okay.
client: You know, I can make in an hour what I can make in a night or a week of nights. It's pretty-- You know, from where I'm from that a really-- You know, there's no decision at all, that's just like, what are you up to if you don't? | Yeah. I'm confused though at the moment because you're saying, "Yeah, I could make in a night what you make in a week," but you've haven't. 22-22 days- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: -and you haven't done that. So-so tell me what that's about.
client: I just told myself I wouldn't this time and then Fiona said, "You will not" this time.
therapist: So you told yourself you wouldn't, so you're once you- you're the sort of guy that once you make a decision you're gonna go, you're staunch with that decision?
client: Yeah, even if it's the wrong one, yes. | Oh, it's a decision whether it's right or wrong-- It's not gonna be- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: I just told myself I wouldn't this time and then Fiona said, "You will not" this time.
therapist: So you told yourself you wouldn't, so you're once you- you're the sort of guy that once you make a decision you're gonna go, you're staunch with that decision?
client: Yeah, even if it's the wrong one, yes.
therapist: Oh, it's a decision whether it's right or wrong-- It's not gonna be-
client: Yeah, but I'm that kinda guy. | Yeah, you're that kinda guy okay, so once you make a decision. So you made a decision that you're not gonna- you're not gonna go back to dealing? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah, but I'm that kinda guy.
therapist: Yeah, you're that kinda guy okay, so once you make a decision. So you made a decision that you're not gonna- you're not gonna go back to dealing?
client: Oh no there wasn't a decision to made, I just said, "I won't yet".
therapist: Yet.
client: Yeah, I said yet. | You're keeping the door open- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Oh no there wasn't a decision to made, I just said, "I won't yet".
therapist: Yet.
client: Yeah, I said yet.
therapist: You're keeping the door open-
client: Yeah. | -at the moment, is what I'm picking up. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: -at the moment, is what I'm picking up.
client: I hate that.
therapist: Yeah, okay, so that will be a call you-you've got to make.
client: Mm. | I'm-I'm not gonna- I'm not gonna make that call. You'll make that call, but there's a consequence of making that call, and there's big consequences more time probably and Fiona not being around. On the other hand, what I'm picking up is a call to-to do some- do some stuff that may not be racy and exciting and in the big dollars, but me being with Fiona and engaging in this transition into a-a different life. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: So how much time have you been talking about this-
client: Oh, fuck.
therapist: -position?
client: With anyone other than Fiona? No time at all, I'd say for about 10 hours with you. | Okay-okay, so the fact we're even having a conversation about it, it's kind of interesting? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: With anyone other than Fiona? No time at all, I'd say for about 10 hours with you.
therapist: Okay-okay, so the fact we're even having a conversation about it, it's kind of interesting?
client: Yeah.
therapist: Yeah, so I wanna summarize, Daryl, what-what I picked up so far and then just so I make sure I'm really listening to you well 'cause it's important, isn't it? 'Cause, you know, it's important you're listened to-
client: Mm. | -by people me. So what I'm picking up is-is-is that if you've-you've got this long 12-year history, you can make some big money or you can dealing, doing crime, that stuff, I'm-I'm picking up that Fiona's set the bottom line, is if you go back in that lifestyle, she's out of here, yet she stayed here for 13, 12, 13 years? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: Yeah, so I wanna summarize, Daryl, what-what I picked up so far and then just so I make sure I'm really listening to you well 'cause it's important, isn't it? 'Cause, you know, it's important you're listened to-
client: Mm.
therapist: -by people me. So what I'm picking up is-is-is that if you've-you've got this long 12-year history, you can make some big money or you can dealing, doing crime, that stuff, I'm-I'm picking up that Fiona's set the bottom line, is if you go back in that lifestyle, she's out of here, yet she stayed here for 13, 12, 13 years?
client: Yeah, 12, nearly 13. | Nearly 13 years, so and-and so-so she stuck with you, and I'm pick up that's important to you, um, and-and-and yet you talk about it, it just seems easy, this bit over here, this whole lifestyle. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Mm.
therapist: -by people me. So what I'm picking up is-is-is that if you've-you've got this long 12-year history, you can make some big money or you can dealing, doing crime, that stuff, I'm-I'm picking up that Fiona's set the bottom line, is if you go back in that lifestyle, she's out of here, yet she stayed here for 13, 12, 13 years?
client: Yeah, 12, nearly 13.
therapist: Nearly 13 years, so and-and so-so she stuck with you, and I'm pick up that's important to you, um, and-and-and yet you talk about it, it just seems easy, this bit over here, this whole lifestyle.
client: Mm. | This other lifestyle over here though when we talk about, actually thinking about, you know, doing stuff, doing the stuff that-that everybody else generally does, [unintelligible 00:22:30] will gets on doing, it doesn't have that same kinda seem to excitement, and it doesn't seem to be a-a starting point for you over here. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah, 12, nearly 13.
therapist: Nearly 13 years, so and-and so-so she stuck with you, and I'm pick up that's important to you, um, and-and-and yet you talk about it, it just seems easy, this bit over here, this whole lifestyle.
client: Mm.
therapist: This other lifestyle over here though when we talk about, actually thinking about, you know, doing stuff, doing the stuff that-that everybody else generally does, [unintelligible 00:22:30] will gets on doing, it doesn't have that same kinda seem to excitement, and it doesn't seem to be a-a starting point for you over here.
client: Uh, that it-it does kinda seem exciting. | Oh, it does? |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: It does, because it's so different.
therapist: Right, okay.
client: And I'm kinda over that one.
therapist: Okay, you're over that one, okay. So, let's start to think about what might be the first step.
client: Yeah. | Yeah, with while going in, I think you got a high steep. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: And I'm kinda over that one.
therapist: Okay, you're over that one, okay. So, let's start to think about what might be the first step.
client: Yeah.
therapist: Yeah, with while going in, I think you got a high steep.
client: Okay, I. | Yeah, a steep, you see before you had a mate who turned his back on offending. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: Yeah, with while going in, I think you got a high steep.
client: Okay, I.
therapist: Yeah, a steep, you see before you had a mate who turned his back on offending.
client: Yeah. | And for him this 12-- You wondered that the 12-step stuff working for him. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah-yeah, it does work for him.
therapist: Yeah, maybe that, I'm wondering the conve- the conversation with him that might be around actually how did he do it, and how did he stay without slipping back across the line, 'cause like-like get this crossroads you've got the path and go the other path and go here, so I'm wondering about conversation with him, what would it take to have that conversation?
client: Uh, ringing him.
therapist: Ringing him?
client: Mm, yeah. | Yeah. You seem a little surprised, I'm-I'm [crosstalk] wondering about, surprising face. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: You-you know, it was a long time ago that we were inside. I just know that's what he's doing. It would be pretty odd calling but the- he'd probably be okay with it.
therapist: So possibility to call?
client: Possibility to call yeah.
therapist: Yeah there's possible.
client: Yeah. | Yeah, okay, and Fiona's been pretty staunch. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Possibility to call yeah.
therapist: Yeah there's possible.
client: Yeah.
therapist: Yeah, okay, and Fiona's been pretty staunch.
client: Mm. | Is someone who actually who has some pretty clear ideas about where she wants you as a couple to go- |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Mm.
therapist: -I get a sense.
client: Yeah.
therapist: Yeah.
client: Well, I just have to do what I'm told. I don't know. | Yeah, but I'm picking up though behind that doing what you're told, she's got some hopes. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Oh, yeah, I was being, um, chipping, I mean, yeah she has more hopes than me, you know.
therapist: So what will it take for you to start thinking about some of her hopes and sharing some of her hopes?
client: Um, like I do- I do but what it would take, you know, I mean, that's pretty freaking scary shit.
therapist: Yeah?
client: Yeah. And I would never admit to that. | You said before you're sort of guy that once you make a decision you're pretty staunch with that decision. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Um, like I do- I do but what it would take, you know, I mean, that's pretty freaking scary shit.
therapist: Yeah?
client: Yeah. And I would never admit to that.
therapist: You said before you're sort of guy that once you make a decision you're pretty staunch with that decision.
client: Yeah. | So if you made a decision to go there, it might be a scary as shit but again it seems that, uh, it could work if see it look, this is important, this relationship's important, let me go for— |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a simple reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah.
therapist: So if you made a decision to go there, it might be a scary as shit but again it seems that, uh, it could work if see it look, this is important, this relationship's important, let me go for—
client: Yeah, but my-when I made my decision to not do that yet like I was very clear I understood I know that picture. If I'm gonna make a decision to do this, I kinda need to really-really know what that is. You know, not only to talk I mean-
therapist: Sure.
client: -what is the whole plan to-to call-call up you know and say, hey bro, hey bro, uh, how did you do that? I mean, really? Is it— | Yeah. That's-that's what I'm thinking- I'm thinking actually. Here's someone that actually has made a different decision then, uh, it sounds like that's the pathway that starts over here and I'm wondering. I wonder whether you might have wisdom about what it's like to t-to tread that path. |
Pretend you are a therapist and provide a complex reflection for what the client is experiencing. | client: Yeah, but my-when I made my decision to not do that yet like I was very clear I understood I know that picture. If I'm gonna make a decision to do this, I kinda need to really-really know what that is. You know, not only to talk I mean-
therapist: Sure.
client: -what is the whole plan to-to call-call up you know and say, hey bro, hey bro, uh, how did you do that? I mean, really? Is it—
therapist: Yeah. That's-that's what I'm thinking- I'm thinking actually. Here's someone that actually has made a different decision then, uh, it sounds like that's the pathway that starts over here and I'm wondering. I wonder whether you might have wisdom about what it's like to t-to tread that path.
client: Yeah, like, I guess I could be wondering that too. | So you know there's a part of you going, I was thinking in this place that's hard work. |